The Guardian’s Bush obituary plumbs new depths of sycophantic hypocrisy
Kit Knightly
The strong man with the dagger is followed by the weak man with the sponge.”Lord Acton
George Herbert Walker Bush died on Saturday. He was 94 years old. Thanks to decisions he made throughout his career, thousands – perhaps millions – of people never got near 94. He invaded Iraq in 1991, instituted sanctions that destroyed the country. He pardoned those involved in the Iran-Contra affair and was head of the CIA when Operation Condor launched the military coup in Argentina in 1976.
None of that makes it into The Guardian‘s obituary, of course.
Instead, Simon Tisdall – a mindless servant to the status quo, always happy to weave invective about our designated enemies – treats us to paragraph after paragraph of inane anecdotes.
Good old Georgie once gave him a lift in Air Force One.
Barbara gave him useful advice about raising Springer Spaniels.
The following words and phrases are not found anywhere in this article: CIA, Iraq, Iran-Contra, Argentinian coup, Iran Air Flight 655, NAZI, Panama.
Rather, Tisdall refers Bush’s term as “before the era of fake news”. Which makes him either a complete a liar or profoundly under-qualified to write on the subject – as the Bush-era spawned the original fake news: The Nayirah testimony. A pack of lies told before the Senate, and used to justify a war in the middle-east.
A Bush family tradition.
Tisdall talks of Bush’s family – “he enjoyed a privileged upbringing in a monied east coast family” – but doesn’t say that his father, Prescott Bush, was a known Nazi sympathiser and was even implicated in an alleged plot to overthrow the government of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Bush started two wars as President. Planned and enabled countless crimes as director of the CIA. pardoned all those implicated in the Iran-Contra affair. Refused to apologise when the US Navy “accidentally” shot down an Iranian airliner, killing over 200 civilians, including 60 children.
He was the original neocon – his administration brought us Cheney and Powell and Rumsfeld. Gave birth to the ideology that stage-managed 9/11, launched the “War on Terror”, and cut a blood-stained swath across North Africa and the Middle East.
We don’t hear about that.
What we DO hear about is Bush’s “deep sense of public duty and service” and that “Bush was a patriot who did not need cheap slogans to express his belief in enduring American greatness”. No space is given over to analysis, to examine the fact that “belief in enduring American greatness” is quasi-fascism, and responsible for more violent deaths this century than any other cause you can name.
In hundreds of words, a notionally left-wing paper has nothing but praise for a highly unpopular right-wing president. No space is given over even to the gentlest of rebukes.
The whole article is an exercise in talking without saying anything. Pleasantries replacing truth. Platitudes where facts should be. A nothing burger, with a void on the side and an extra order of beige.
It’s an obituary of Harold Shipman that eschews murder talk and rhapsodises about his love of gardening.
A eulogy to Pinochet that praises his economic reforms but neglects all the soccer stadiums full of corpses.
An epitaph to Hitler that focuses, not on his “controversial political career”, but on his painting and his vegetarianism.
Did you know Genghis Khan once lent me a pencil? He was a swell guy. The world will miss him.
We’re no longer supposed to examine the lives, characters or morals of our leaders. Only “honour their memory” and be “grateful for their service”. History is presented to us, not as a series of choices made by people in power, but as a collection of inevitabilities. Consequences are tragic but unavoidable. Like long-dead family squabbles – To dwell on them is unseemly, and to assign blame unfair.
Just as with John McCain, apologism and revisionism are sold to us as manners and good taste. Attempts to redress the balance and tell the truth are met with stern glares and declarations that it is “too soon”.
It’s never “too soon” to tell the truth.
John McCain was a dangerous war-mongering lunatic. George Bush Sr was a sociopath from a family of corrupt sociopaths. The world would be a far better, and much safer place if just one major newspaper was willing to say that.
Really, there are two obituaries to write here:
First – George HW Bush, corrupt patriarch of an old and malign family, passing out of this world to face whatever eternal punishment (hopefully) awaits those who sell their immortal soul in exchange for a brief taste of power.
Second – The Guardian, perhaps a decent newspaper once-upon-a-time, now a dried out husk. A zombified slave to the state, mindless and brainless and lifeless. No questions, no reservations, no hesitation. Obediently licking up the mess their masters leave behind.
It’s sickening.
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Brilliant deconstruction of both Bush and the Guardian. This was the man who counted the Bin Ladens and John Hinckley Jr as friends of the family.
My mother believed it was only Bush Senior’s longevity that prevented some of the neo-cons from bumping off Bush Junior. He was President in name only and has long since fulfilled his usefulness in committing the US to endless war. He is prone to verbal gaffes and that must make him a liability, and when powerful evil people get nervous they often turn deadly.
Caskets
circles
flags
The croaking of frogs.
Not the first time this odious man has laid in a casket surrounded by adherents.
Like son, like father — Bush War Crimes in Iraq:
https://youtu.be/cqiq8P8dRtY
The Guardian has actually become spam.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-medias-manafort-coverage-is-a-case-study-in-journalistic-malpractice/
Perhaps Tisdall was confusing Herbert with his great-grandfather…
I certainly don’t recognize this one from the article.
Cut&Pasted from Lavrov interview in today’s Saker Vineyard:
Question: When the death of President George H.W. Bush was announced, President Putin expressed his condolences in a very emotional message. George Bush Sr. believed that one of the worst mistakes of his presidency was failure to prevent the Soviet Union’s dissolution. Did you meet with him? What are your impressions of him?
Sergey Lavrov: … I believe that George Bush Sr greatly contributed to the development of the United States and ensured that his country responsibly played its role in the world, considering its weight in international affairs.
I remember very well how President George H.W. Bush visited Moscow, and then he went to Ukraine where he encouraged the Soviet republics’ political forces to … do their duty by preserving the country rather than create huge, tragic problems for millions of people who became citizens of different states the morning after the Soviet Union collapsed.
Mr Bush was a great politician. I believe that every word that will be said about his achievements reflect the people’s true attitude to this man. However, one comment … about the link between President Bush and the demise of the Soviet Union. … I heard a commentator say that George Bush Sr made history by helping Mikhail Gorbachev soft-land the Soviet Union. In fact, George Bush Sr never did that; he simply wanted to protect millions of people … from political games. This is what we can say confidently about him.
https://thesaker.is/lavrovs-interview-and-answers-to-questions-for-the-programme-moscow-kremlin-putin/
The Webster tarpley book about him is interesting
Also regarding the “gulf war”. The then US ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie gave saddam the nod to invade Kuwait.
He was set up.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/april.html
It was German journalist, Udo Ulfkotte actually spilled the beans regarding the western media in his best seller, Journalisten Gekaufte, (Bought Journalists). Ulfkotte described the degree to which the CIA has penetrated the western media and corrupted, or bribed ( including himself) the system which has become a PR organization for the intelligence services, and MIC. On publication it immediately sold 120,000.00 copies and then strangely became unavailable in English. He was described as a ‘conspiracy theorist’ (but of course) and died at the relatively young age of a heart attack at 56. There are some salient issues surrounding his death raised by Jonas Schneider in his book ‘The Mysterious Death of Udo Ulfkotte: Evidence for a Murder.
Let’s never forget George H W Bush’s love for incubator babies. He loved fake incubator babies.
The incubator baby actress wasn’t just any 15 year old, she was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Canada –
British and most western media are either in the direct or indirect pay of their governments. What journalist can expose this for us? Any of you willing to make the biggest scoop of the 21st century? Tom Bradbury at ITN must be on the spook payroll, for starters? MI6 had foreign correspondents for years, but domestic mouthpieces must now be on the take too? All paid to demonise Russia and Putin.
Truther nonsense, really?
That’s why the families of 9/11 are suing Saudia Arabia.
I’m with the families. You can wallow all you want in you own Smug Ignorance.
Yep, them pilots, really managed to fly them planes with nothing more than some flightsim training on a pc.
I’ll take Choamsky, and raise you a Corbett Report special, to make it easier for you. Take all the time in the world, because that’s the Conspiracy Theory you believe.
Excellent!
I’m with the families too ….. and Sir Isaac .
I’m afraid the families suing is just propaganda. There are no loved ones of those who died on 9/11 because death and injury were staged. The propaganda just goes on and on. There is not a single item on the visual record of the alleged 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured that convincingly shows death or injury while there are quite a number that indicate fakery. And there is only a small percentage of the 3,000 showing in the Social Security Death Index. The US govt would not have killed and injured those people – that makes no sense in a psyop – and if they had there would certainly be a lot more families suing than we’re currently told about.
Flax Girl On this issue I have to disagree with you. People were jumping to their death, firemen died and hundreds of families mourned their loss. I do think it was done on the orders of the Neo Cons though. I know a Australian civilian who filmed it and observed it from nearby. He was an Australian artist with no reason to be involved in a cover up. I think that the US elites would really kill Americans to achieve their end game.
I once read an article on the then vice president Nelson Rockefeller who said that Russia is not the enemy, the enemy is the have nots. The current elites are even less caring about ordinary Americans than then.
“Yep, them pilots, really managed to fly them planes with nothing more than some flightsim training on a pc.”
Yes, I believe they really did … but you keep on believing your paranoid nonsense.
What do you believe? Lol, oh dear, you people do make me laugh.
The Guardian has lost all sense of proportion – mention Tommy Robinson and the entire staff through themselves to floor and roll round like dying flies – yet for when it comes to US neocons they go all misty eyed, redolent of a broody couple when they come across a particularly adorable baby.
Simon ‘white helmets’ Tisdall is especially egregious – one can imagine him throwing darts at a picture of Putin while producing his latest homily to the murderous actions of gangsters like Bush and his crime family.
Its hard not to despair now this has become the official face of Britains so-called liberal media.
I would wager a medium sum that Tisdall is on a payroll other than the Grauniad’s or he’s an actual asset per Ulfkötte’s books and media appearances. As with Michael White, with whom I had a very illuminating argument via email a few years back. He *is* an asset, not a journalist (and a massive dick, to boot)
swell guy: excellent, very good, smart (forum.wordrefrence.com)
nothing burger: something lame, dead-end, a dud, insignificant, pathetic (urbandictionary.com)
beige: something bland, devoid of excitement (this one i am guessing)
I know that the word is overused, but the whole idea of any world leader imposing a public period of mourning seems facist. I don’t know if that is the right word, but I am not a fan publically imposed spectacle of mourning.
Surely, excessive reverence for the leader or ex-leaders is certainly a feature of authoritatrian regimes.
Increase in fake and bullshit eulogies is and indication that a democracy has become a regime.
Tisdall revisionist turd polishing is as laughable as much of the rest of the crock that leaks out of the Graun these days.
I thought the attitude of the Bush family to their fellow Americans was best illustrated by Barbara’s response to the plight of the homeless victims of Katrina who had been transported to the Houston domed stadium. They spent their nights there sleeping on hard benches and when good ole Babs heard of it, she opined that they probably had never had it so good so why were they complaining. Could Mother Theresa have had greater generosity of spirit?
Not just one article, the awful Guardian is full of contents eulogising [yet another] mongrel of a president.
But look at conservative media.
The crazy Infowars.com described this Bush as an Anti-American Globalist and Traitor!!
.. and zerohedge.com is celebrating: “The Evil Has Died” and “In 2016 he voted for Hillary Clinton, because the Deep State Swamp sticks together”.
Just tell me, who is the rabid neo-con right-wing rag that is glorifying wars and mass murderers?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-02/exploring-dark-side-bush-41
I would ask which American MSM is not right wing. Which political party is not right wing. I think the Congress, the senate and the President with a few notable exceptions are all well paid puppets of the oligarchs and their partners in the Deep or Permanent State.
Correction: Anglo – Wahhabi Gulf oil sheik empire.
“… The whole article is an exercise in talking without saying anything. Pleasantries replacing truth. Platitudes where facts should be. A nothing burger, with a void on the side and an extra order of beige.
It’s an obituary of Harold Shipman that eschews murder talk and rhapsodises about his love of gardening.
A eulogy to Pinochet that praises his economic reforms but neglects all the soccer stadiums full of corpses.
An epitaph to Hitler that focuses, not on his “controversial political career”, but on his painting and his vegetarianism …”
It’s a wonder The Fraudian didn’t interview old neighbours of George H W Bush and his family. I’m sure the interviewees would have said that he was a quiet and polite fellow who remembered to put out the garbage for the weekly collection and that the whole family seemed normal and didn’t make a lot of noise in the evenings. Or whatever neighbours of serial murderers usually tell the press.
Speaking of neighbors you might appreciate this excellent Journalism by Robert Parry.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/12/03/bush-41s-october-surprise-denials-2/
The late Robert Parry, sad to say.
Maybe that now both the ‘MacBeths’ are stains on the tarmac – Parry’s notes of the bloodstained legacy of that dynasty can finally be displayed?
That Barbara was one cold blooded mother! Would have happily pulled a trigger on JFK, MLK… herself (some think).
Just about the whole century from the setup of the Fed, the two world wars, the depression, Hitler, Korea, Cuba…all of it, had a a Bush hand in it. He was the self crowned caesar having publicly executed the whole of camelot and left us with a poison toad, reminds us how low the Bush’s took the USA.
Fuckemall
“The Buck stops here” , “No Reservations . . . ” an accurate appraisal & nice one , Kit :- much appreciated by Balky dun’Groanin & Co. : after all , it had to be said out loud & honestly, for fear that the sycophants & hypocrisy would rule without reverb. One constructive reflection . . .
Balky’s only fear is that we forget the greatest sin of all committed by G.H.W. Bush >>> he procreated ! with a monstrous affront to all womankind !! (one that makes HRC look like an anachronistic pantomime mystic angelic lipstick lovin’ cheerleader) … I mean George JR. & Jeb d’Huh?’ :- the fuckers are still out there and you have to ask what are they up to next and for whom and for gads sake, how many more of them lil’ ‘birdbrains in the Bush’ family fuckers hierarchy , are ready to flee the nest and crap on Balky’s dying ford fiesta Diesel party … for 25,000 redundancies ???
it’s worrying , not just coz’ Balky loves Fiestas & Rudolf Diesel, but coz’ those Bushes produce a whole ship & shit loadsa’ guano, the whole world over … (Now focussing on South American boltholes, with water reserves, for when the shit hits the fan) n’ Breeding & laying eggs like reptiles , with ‘Cobra’ Command Communications Control & Censorship Centre , to boot startups >>> i.e. GCHQ , NSA & five eyed friends of the Deep State and their AMP (amplified media propaganda) arm.
There’s always hope for Balky; something really revealing happens to highlight Tony Blair & George Bush Jr. alike, in the near Saudi Arabian Knights future >>> after all, they are both unequivocally War Criminals of the first order, & Far Worse . . . irresponsibly triggering & amplifying Saudi Wahhabism.
As any birdbrain knows , honestly speaking 🙂 and any rational Judge would certify . . .
Balky Yawns : die Reihen Ordnung nach, let’s get things in the right order, from WTC7 & controlled explosions, onwards … Blair & the Bushes were key enablers to creating the total phoney global war on terror and wide spread ‘Angst’ , by design , to roll out the Surveillance State , (like Hitler’s S.S. or Honecker’s Stasi ) … when in reality Balky was more likely to die from poorly managed ‘Asbestos’ disposal Black Ops. (like the WTC1&2 , Ta, Larry Silverstein) or driving his diesel logo Ford Fiesta in Switzerland … than any act of staged terror !
Tony, Tony Tony … Balky’s been up the jungle, for a while , but Balky can never forget any one of the fuck ups , you unloaded , son and yer’ time has come 😉 … to join hands with Georgi JR. & Legal Accountability, in International Courts of Justice >>> George Jr. said it so eloquently himself , (copying Truman) 🙂 “the Buck stops here” & so the Buck Stops with the Bushes 😉 & Blair >>> let us finally record history, accurately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfV14vw1I88
To Guardian readers, PSychophants & Sociopaths, the end is unquestionably nigh :- whether you accept science or not , algorithms can read you like a book , quite simply , the Guardian and its’ 1 million dumbed down financial supporters are finished , dead as the Dodo & Norwegian Blue >>> a total waste of 189 hard earned years of integrity , (No thanks to that Kat Viner) , that rests now under “State Control & Agenda” , since the hard drives of Military Intelligence intervened & wanted to enslave people & their minds . . .
& their ‘diet’ of corporate control , utilising …
Weaponised Weather !
Talking about snakes in the grass >>> Balky rates Mongoose , or Mon’Guccifer2:0 against Cobra Ops. that plunge to depths of propaganda & hypocrisy, never thought humanly possible, with universal venomous brainwash >>>
“The Indian grey mongoose and others are well known for their ability to fight and kill venomous snakes, particularly cobras. They are adept at such tasks due to their agility, thick coats, and specialized acetylcholine receptors that render them resistant or immune to snake venom. However, they typically avoid the cobra and have no particular affinity for consuming its’ meat.”
The 1% elite would be wise to gracefully concede … Macron is finished & his MILF 🙂
Good riddance John ‘No-Name’ & Papa Bush >>> may you rot in Hell and prop the doors open with your decayed ole’ skull & bones :- as many more will be joining you, very soon, one way or another >>> Yeehaaaa !!!
Hell is no longer empty and it’s filling up quickly , everydarnday . . .
P.s. Dear Peter Bolton: do tell Balky why, how & what the BBC announced prior to & well in advance of the controlled demolition and collapse of WTC 7 ??? were they Psychics ? >>> Peter , yer’ trolling; it’s obvious, so just you stick to the question , you plonker, Peter ! Get a real job & stop trolling for criminals . . . The SEC investigation into Enron, Monsanto & GEC , regarding weaponised weather and the deployment of HAARP , in order to buy up dried out bankrupted farms on the cheap, in states turned to dustbowls and then plant GMO crops subsequently, when the rain was permitted to return , was all in WTC 7 and was the obvious target of 9/11 , to silence all farmers claims . . .
and distract from the scandalous corporate avarice & experimentation … to control markets and simultaneously ramp their S.S. infrastructure & Data banks, to control people and their minds.
Please ignore Peter Bolton , the Troll 😉 , further on down the food chain 🙂
Y’all have a blindin’ day . . . reflecting on WTC7 😉 & the fact that we still have 2 Birds in the Bush & we can kill ’em both , with one stone: coz’ like Bush jr. said , & for Blair, “the Buck stops here” !
Simples: they Dunnit’, innit’ “No Reservations . . .” without Security Council ! The Buck Stops !!!
George Bush spent his adult life organizing operations and wars that killed a few million people. Anyone who has spiritual beliefs must wonder how it is to die with so much killing on your record or conscience (if you have one).
That’s something I’ve wondered about many times. If you review John McCain’s actions and comments before he died, it seems these people don’t have a conscience. If you surround yourself with people of similar mindset and in a climate where war is considered obligatory for US Presidents, you go into self denial. Wars are probably like an addiction for these people and once you get to that stage you no longer have a conscience.
During John McCain’s funeral where all living ex-presidents were in attendance, someone remarked on Twitter, ‘Quick, lock the church doors and hold the war crimes trial in the church!’. This was a far more realistic observation than the sickening McCain apologist BBC coverage we were subjected to.
At the weekend I went to the place where Oliver Cromwell lived. There was an American tourist who told us she was shocked about Oliver Cromwell being dug up from his grave and his head stuck on a pike. She said it was gruesome. I was tempted to say that at least that was 350 years ago, and similar things are happening today in Iraq, Syria and Libya – all places where the US has instigated the chaos and supports the perpretators. I resisted the temptation.
I note that Cromwell thought he was chosen by God to do what he did. But again that was in different times and there were some redeeming factors in what he did, Probably on par with Obama – who wreaked havoc on the Middle East but reached agreements on Iran and Cuba. Plus Obama looked cool while killing and droning.
But what goes around comes around. I sense the pure evil involved in the current regime change wars, government, media etc will pay a heavy price – whether in this life or the next.
The state controlled BBC has just done another puff piece on McCain saying what a splendid chap and great statesman and all round good egg he was.
The MSM likes to slag off Vlad The Bad by droning on about how he was in the KGB. But Bush wasn’t just IN the CIA, he was the BOSS of the CIA, at a time when hundreds of thousands of Central American peasant farmers and Indians were being killed by CIA trained and orchestrated death squads.
Mark: jayzus Mark, don’t you just want to projectile vomit when you see all this absolute bullshit, just straight out revising of history, just the lies, on and on…. I was involved in a Central American solidarity group in the 1980s – early 90s here in Aussie, found out then all about U.S style ‘democracatic values’ and ‘human rights concerns’ and death squads and various fascists fully supported by the United States, and places like Guatemala and Nicaragua. Its all an illusion for ‘polite society’ and the gullible to believe in. Sigh
I can’t remember the exact figures but I think it was over 200,000 murdered in Guatemala out of a population of 4 million. It was the same story in El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and Colombia. And of course the CIA satrap Noriega was hauled off in chains when that country was invaded. But Uncle Sam is finally paying a price for his antics south of the border. Those societies were wrecked and brutalised beyond repair. There is now an unbelievably high murder rate of women in Guatemala. Millions of those people have sought some kind of refuge in the belly of the beast, causing an immigration crisis, with an illegal immigrant population that may be as high as 30 million. Hence all the uproar over Trump’s wall. The immigration crisis was a factor in Trump’s election, just as the tidal wave of migrants from the destroyed countries of the Middle East was a factor in Brexit. Cameron, Sarko and Clinton thought it was a spiffing idea and quite a wizard wheeze to bomb Libya back to the Stone Age. So we now have a Mad Max failed state complete with warlords and slave markets just across the Med. What goes around, comes around. You can’t expect to export violence and mayhem abroad and remain immune to it at home.
Mark: after Efrain Rios Montt seized power in a coup in Guatemala in 1982, US Ambassador Frederick Chapin declared that thanks to the coup of Rios Montt “the Guatemalan Govt has come out of the darkness into the light”. That sums it up in one sentence, and you’re probably aware of the mass killing and disappearances under his genocidal tyranny. Reagan kindly submitted that Rios Montt was ‘getting a bum rap on human rights, the same Reagan who declared the Contra’s were ‘The moral equal of our founding fathers’. In El Salvador, the same mass slaughter, the same mass upheaval, and even murdering Archbishop Romero. You only need to look at what happened in Central & South America to understand what the United States really represents.
I would have bypassed the war crimes trial, locked the church and then built a moat stocked with crocodiles and piranhas around it.
That’s entirely right. People understandably despise and revile people like Brady and Hindley, Sutcliffe, Dahmer, Bundy and the like. But they killed a handful of people and were often very damaged individuals to begin with. And at least they did their own dirty work. Subhuman scum sucking filth like Bush, Bush 2, Obama, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Blair, Straw and Campbell are a thousand times worse. They kill millions without getting their hands dirty, and preen and posture as great statesmen and public servants, expecting deference and state funerals and puff piece obituaries from nauseating, loathsome, lickspittle media hacks like Tisdall.
Far too deferential to Tisdall.
You left out Kissinger and Albright.
Nailed it Kit. The attempt at revionism and rewriting history by these craven creatures, these sycophantic slimebag shills for Imperialism and War and the Anglo Zionist Empire. They don’t speak truth to power, they protect and grovel to the powerful. The eulogising and fawning of Bush was stomach churning, as it was for the arch Imperialist McCain when he croaked. Thank God for alternative news sites, and yeah Caitlin Johnston @ medium nailed it as well, as Fair Dinkum mentioned. Where’s John Pilger when you need him?
GBH Bush’s Highway of Death deserves mention. I’ll spare you the pictures.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=highway+of+death+desert+storm&t=h_&atb=v92-2_f&ia=web
What no one seems to realize is that the VP often takes charge of the US National Security Council when POTUS is not able to attend meetings, which are held weekly. Under Eisenhower it was Richard Nixon who often took charge of the meetings–Tim Weiner’s book “Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA” gives some details on this.
Reagan was primarily a mantle piece for the banking, oil and defense sectors to run wild…is it really so hard to believe GHW Bush was running the National Security Council? It was a CIA wet dream come true (especially after the alligator-armed “investigations” of the 70’s.
Caitlin sums it up>
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/12/01/if-you-murdered-a-bunch-of-people-mass-murder-is-your-single-defining-legacy/
I was with you until you mentioned 9/11 conspiracy theories, which I think seriously undermined what was otherwise an excellent piece.
Every theory about 9/11 is a conspiracy theory. The one thing we can be sure about with 9/11 is that it was the product of a conspiracy.
Fine then, if you must nitpick. I revise my comment:
I was with you until you mentioned 9/11 truther nonsense, which I think seriously undermined what was otherwise an excellent piece.
I will also add in its support this audio recording of Noam Chomsky speaking on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b_nI6DlZP0
Chomsky is a sell out. And his crud about 9 11 proves it.
He talks about peer reviewed facts. As if anyone would ever see any facts they didn’t want seen.
His wholre premise is silly.
9/11 truther nonsense
Perhaps you could grace us with your opinion of what is happening to this building. Please don’t expose your ignorance by saying that it has something to do with an airplane collision; not even the US government claims that.
It had something to do with an aeroplane collision.
I’ll believe what I want, not what you tell me to believe.
Not even the US government claims that.
Is it really possible that you are this stupid?
Look at all the thumbs-downs, Peter. Your coincidence-theoryism won’t get much traction here. Off G is one of the proliferating realist, high-standard alt-news places where the – ever-more-conclusively-evidenced – truth about the 11/9 false-flag can be discussed rationally without having to swat away too many mooncalf denialists. And yes, on this one particular matter, I have to class Noam – bafflingly – with the mooncalves, despite revering him otherwise as one of the Great Souls of our time, rarely guilty of other such spectacular balls-ups of judgement.
Yeah, the fact that my two comments got 20 or so thumbs down on a website that promotes 9/11 truther theories (and therefore is presumably read in large part by people who believe them) has really changed my mind. I mean, what incredibly jaw-dropping evidence that is that I’m wrong!
I wonder what on earth makes you believe the story of the 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters, Peter. Can you provide a single piece of evidence that makes you believe the story?
I believe in pixies, elves, fairies, leprechauns, Father Christmas, the official account of 9/11, and everything in the MSM.
what incredibly jaw-dropping evidence that is that I’m wrong
So, no comment on the WTC-7 building collapse, then.
If you want to slander some other theory as “nonsense”, it’s important to ignore all the evidence that contradicts your own, and hope that nobody notices the omission.
You know already what I will respond to this. And I know already what you will say in return. So, instead of getting into a back and forth about it, I will simply leave you with something to consider.
The fact that each successive report that comes out that refutes the claims of the truther movement is automatically dismissed by people like you shows how conspiracy theory thinking works. The final 9/11 report comes out in 2004 and, of course, the truthers dismiss it because it was written by a branch of the federal government who you believe perpetrated 9/11 in the first place. Then Popular Mechanics publishes a 5,500 word report in 2005 extensively answering and debunking the movement claims. Here, you people can’t claim that it was a government cover-up – at least not directly – because Popular Mechanics is a privately owned publication. Therefore, new sub-conspiracy theories are invented to “prove” how Popular Mechanics is part of the cover-up. To give just one example Christopher Bollyn “claimed to have discovered why the 100-year-old engineering magazine would take part in a government cover-up of the crime of the century: A young researcher on the magazine’s staff named Benjamin Chertoff was a cousin of then-Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, and the magazine was seeking to whitewash the criminal conspiracy with its coverage.” (Slate 2011) Here we are seeing the kind of incredible mental contortion that truthers are willing to engage in to continue believing their theories.
Then in 2008 the National Institute of Standards and Technology released the final installment of its study into the causes behind the collapse of the buildings – $16 million was invested into the investigation. And, as I well know, you and other truthers will have a smart Alec come-back as to why the NIST report is wrong, its authors are part of the vast conspiracy and so on. On and on it goes no matter how many reports are published by however many experts.
Again, I am not interested in getting dragged into a back-and-forth about the merits and demerits of these reports. Rather, I wish to point out the flawed reasoning inherent to 9/11 trutherism: that it has its own internal mechanisms for discounting any evidence that contradicts its central tenets. It therefore constitutes a closed system of thought because there is nothing that would ever count as a refutation. In other words, for all contradictory evidence another explanation is made to retroactively fit the latest gap in the theory that is exposed.
Now, I know full well that this is probably not going to change your mind either. And I’m sure that there will be plenty of responses to this comment and thumbs down from Off-Guardian readers. But I hope that you at least consider whether you are wrong about this subject. For my part, I worry that 9/11 trutherism obscures what are indeed important subjects – US imperialism, US govt. corruption, the nefarious influence of the CIA, the legitimate grievance that people in the Middle East have against the US, Israel, the Saudi dictatorship and so on. Above all, I worry that 9/11 trutherism makes it open season for the real enemies – the US foreign policy establishment, et cetera – to portray the resistance to them and their agenda as a bunch of tin foil hat wearing fruitcakes. I feel strongly that the left needs to jettison this in-group, conspiracy theory-type stuff really become a major force and overturn the status quo.
People like you must count as a great success for the obedience training that keeps capitalist society running smoothly, with the few dissidents casually dismissed as “a bunch of tin foil hat wearing fruitcakes”.
Even NIST eventually admitted that WTC-7 free-fell for 2.5 seconds. That can only happen if all the support columns fail at exactly the same time; otherwise it would topple over sideways. Only controlled explosives can make that happen.
Your touching faith in the word of ruling-class “experts”, over the evidence of your own eyes, and basic physics, is a credit to the Middle Ages. It would warm the hearts of the Catholic theologians who refused to look through Galileo’s telescope because they knew, as a matter of revealed truth, that what he said couldn’t possibly be true.
What do the claims of a bunch of tinfoil-hat-wearing fruitcakes count for, against not just ruling class dogma, but the entire weight of respectable middle-class opinion? The social status and careers of millions of right-thinking professionals, like you, depend on believing, or at least pretending to believe, not just the 9/11 Official Story, but all the other Official Stories as well. How could all those comfy middle-class people, with their comfy middle-class careers and high-status friends, be wrong? That would throw the entire plan for next weekend’s dinner party into question.
Do you believe the Offical Skripal Story? The Official ISIS story? The Official Syrian Chemical Weapons Story? The Official JFK Assassination Story? The Official USS Liberty Story? The Official Tonkin Gulf Story? How do you decide which Official Stories to believe, except on the basis of careerism and status-seeking?
https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/free-fall-acceleration
Again, I am not interested in getting drawn into a back-and-forth about the various claims of 9/11 truthers like yourself. I would just like to make one comment and then leave two things for yourself and other truthers on here to consider.
First, I would like to comment upon the fact that I have been subjected to some rather nasty personalized abuse on this thread simply for challenging the claims of trutherism. I’m not pointing this out to feel aggrieved or to search for sympathy or to make myself out as some kind of victim. Rather I do so to illustrate how it is indicative of the negative and mind-closing effects of the group-think and the conspiracy theorist mind-set. It goes something like this: “everyone who questions the tenets of the great truther theory is the enemy, not just a skeptic but rather a collaborator in the evil system that suppresses the “truth”.”
Second, I want to provide a link to an excellent article that addresses the claims of truthers head-on: https://www.skeptical-science.com/critical-thinking/911-conspiracy-theories-debunked/
The people it discusses were truthers and many of them reexamined their beliefs after being confronted by actual specialists on the subjects basing their truther beliefs on. If you are open-minded as you claim to be, then have the decency to at least read the article and consider its points, rather than just reflexively rejecting the source as part of the great cover-up.
Finally, I would like to leave you with a quote from Noam Chomsky. Now, I am well aware that you think Chomsky is a sell-out for not getting on board with trutherism and that you have all kinds of fancy come-backs as to why he is wrong. But he raises a very important issue of priorities for people on the anti-imperialist left to consider. Is this obsession with this issue really helping us to fight against imperialism and all of the other iniquities of the world? I think not:
“One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work.” Noam Chomsky
Ah “truther”, that neologism which serves the same purpose as the recasting of the term “conspiracy” to designate foolishness, gullibilty etc.
And as for Chomsky, well here’s what he had to say about the 9/11 “inside job” theory:
“And even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely, who cares? It doesn’t have any significance. It’s a little bit like the huge energy that’s put out on trying to figure out who killed John Kennedy. Who knows? Who cares? Plenty of people get killed all the time, why does it matter that one of them happened to be John F. Kennedy?”
Let’s just consider that for a moment. Chomsky is considering the possibilty – however remote in his view – that 9/11 may indeed have been an inside job. And he’s saying it doesn’t have any significance that the US goverment carried out an attack on its own population! It doesn’t have any significance that the “war on terror” was launched on the basis of a lie!
This is the moment when Chomsky truly stood revealed. He was like the kid with his hand in the cookie jar who instantly concocts any number of excuses all of which contradict each other. And yet even when caught out like this, he has his supporters who say he “dispels 9/11 theories with sheer logic”!
That’s the one. I mean – who knows and who cares? It’s not as if a terrorist attack on mainland America that altered the face of New York and launched a war across the world is actually important.
Well, I think the fact that Noam Chomsky has said this demonstrates how few people accept these 9/11 truther ideas – even amongst people who generally agree with your (and my) kind of politics. George Galloway, who like Chomsky is about as far politically from the neocons as you can get, has also spoken very eloquently against trutherism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A5ToK6g0m8
Ironically, the only remotely public figure who does that I’ve heard mentioned on this thread is some Reaganite crank that I had never heard of until now. That really does not bode well for you, does it?
Au contraire Peter, it does not bode well for the entire realm of mainstream discourse. Logically what Chomsky said is simply monstrous. As is this:
“I think the fact that Noam Chomsky has said this demonstrates how few people accept these 9/11 truther ideas”
What is the hold that this man has that he only has to say something to “demonstrate” what most think?
And having now listened to Mr Galloway and once again having to put up with his portentous stretching……out…..of……the …..sentence to – quite frankly pad the time out, I see that his “points” come down to the following:
Two planes flew into the twin towers. Yes – there’s no disputing that one.
GW Bush could not possibly have planned the thing himself. Yes again – no dispute. At this point I must express my gratitude to Reagan for finally proving that the guy in front is just a puppet.
If the US did it themselves and it “got out” it would be the end of America’s credibility. Yes indeed. Which is why, all across the mainstream press, it will only ever be presented as a “nutty conspiracy theory”
Galloway: “I saw, myself, the airplanes hitting the twin towers.”
— which is supposed to constitute proof of the official Evil-Terrorists-In-A-Cave-In-Afghanistan story.
attention, “flaxgirl”: your grand unified theory of 9/11 now needs to incorporate George Galloway as a fake witness for the US government, which seems strange, given his decades of opposition, both before and after, to the imperial warfare for which 9/11 served as a pretext.
The political function of the No-Planes-At-WTC claims could not be more clear; it’s so that people who dispute other aspects of the Official Story can all be dismissed as deranged idiots.
But Peter you need to look at the evidence for yourself and not take others’ word for it. And be guided by those who know how buildings collapse – Chomsky certainly doesn’t.
This is a wonderful tutorial by Richard Gage, founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
The story of 9/11 is utterly preposterous. The only reason people believe it is to do with psychology of how we relate to power nothing to do with the actuality of the story – because it’s utterly ludicrous.
Forgot link to tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ged-FIf46dc
This is my article on Chomsky’s sophistry on 9/11:
https://off-guardian.org/2016/10/11/analysis-of-the-sophistry-of-noam-chomsky-on-911/
Wut? “…less violent ones like England, the US or France…” From here on it just gets worse until Chomsky has no credible position left to argue from.
Heightened sense of cognitive dissonance by old Noam.
‘…even if it were true, which is extremely unlikely, then who cares? It doesn’t have any significance.”
Wow, for someone with such intellect this is some low-level thinking. I almost feel sorry for Chomsky for holding such an immoral position. Would he feel the same way if his wife was murdered? “Ah, there’s other things to worry about, anything else is a diversion of energy.” Very sad.
Where basic physics is concerned we should not speak of theory. The only possible explanation for the collapse of the buildings is controlled demolition. There is no doubt whatsoever that 9/11 was an inside conspiracy. There is also no doubt that death and injury were staged – at least, there is zero evidence of its reality in the visual record and one would think that for the 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured claimed there would be at least one piece of evidence for their reality, rather than every piece (anomalously small in number) in the visual record perfectly fitting “staged”. Not to mention other anomalies unrelated to the visual record and that actual killing and injuring of people by the perpetrators would take a highly-problematic form in the shape of a great number of loved ones (as opposed to the tiny number presented) and the injured themselves when controlled demolition was so obvious.
When you say that there is no doubt whatsoever that 9/11 was an inside conspiracy, I feel you are being overconfident unless what you are saying is that there is some evidence that some figures at the World Trade Centres seemed to have foreknowledge.
Frankly, although we all have our theories as to who was responsible, I remain in full agreement with Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth who state simply that the official account conflicts with physics. All else is suspicion and supposition. It may well be well grounded supposition, but until we discover who planned and executed the event and who definitely had foreknowledge, what we are dealing with is speculation.
The problem with that is that the great many people who refuse to believe anything other than the official account of 9/11 dismiss our views as those of cranks
there is some evidence that some figures at the World Trade Centres seemed to have foreknowledge
Kevin,
The buildings came down by controlled demolition. The evidence for that is incontrovertible and the rationale presented by NIST for fire being the cause is demonstrably not based on a skerrick of evidence and is obviously fraudulent and false. There is not a single reason to suspect that the cause of collapse of all the buildings wasn’t controlled demolition. If you believe there is a single reason to suspect another cause can you please provide it.
Since waking up to 9/11, I find that people either decide something is something with too little evidence or refrain from deciding on what something is when the evidence is so overwhelming you’re practically drowning in it. Being conservative in judgement in the face of overwhelming evidence is no virtue in my opinion.
I have engaged in conversation with Mick West who runs the metabunk.org website that allegedly debunks all the conspiracy theories. We have gone back and forth a number of times over the cause of WTC-7’s collapse and I have invited him to respond to an Occam’s Razor challenge to provide 10 points that favour “fire” over “controlled demolition”. He did not respond to the challenge, nor could he provide a single point that favours fire over controlled demolition. Not a single point – didn’t change his mind though.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/5000-challenge.html
Nor has anyone responded to my other Occam’s Razor challenges. I judge when I see that there is a reasonable amount of evidence and that evidence points all one way and there is no evidence pointing any other way. If you disagree with this method fair enough.
And just to add, that, of course, it must be an inside job in the case of controlled demolition. As Graeme MacQueen says, there is no room in the official story for controlled demolition.
The big secret is though that death and injury were staged. That’s the real secret.
It was a totally excellent piece. No reservations.
“Theory”? Are you serious? If you believe that 9/11 was the work of 19 barely-trained terrorists (one of whom cried when asked to do steep turns and stalls according to his alleged flying instructor but was tasked with the most impossibly-expert manoeuvre of doing a 330 degree turn into the Pentagon), armed with boxcutters who managed to hijack 4 planes, navigate them into 3 iconic buildings without being molested by a single fighter interceptor through the most defended airspace on earth, which subsequently caused the 10-second collapses (displaying all the characteristics of controlled demolition and none of fire-caused collapses) of three high-rise steel frame buildings, here’s a $5,000 challenge for you. All you have to do is provide 10 points that support the “fire” hypothesis over the “controlled demolition” hypothesis for the collapse of WTC-7 and you can choose your own structural engineer to validate your points. There’s so very much material on the collapse it shouldn’t be very difficult. In fact, all you have to do is come up with one point to support WTC-7’s collapse by fire and I’ll give you $5,000. One point – validated by a structural engineer of your choice. https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/5000-challenge.html
9/11 is probably the biggest hoax in history and includes the very clever subhoax of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured. Not only was it a hoax but they did not aim for realism in any shape or form and gave us extra clues in addition to their preposterous against-physical-and-administrative-reality story.
This is what Paul Craig Roberts, chairman of The Institute for Political Economy, who has had careers in scholarship and academia, journalism, public service, and business, has to say about 9/11.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/pages/about-paul-craig-roberts/
According to the official story, on September 11, 2001, the vaunted National Security State of the World’s Only Superpower was defeated by a few young Saudi Arabians armed only with box cutters. The American National Security State proved to be totally helpless and was dealt the greatest humiliation ever inflicted on any country claiming to be a power.
That day no aspect of the National Security State worked. Everything failed.
The US Air Force for the first time in its history could not get intercepter jet fighters into the air.
The National Security Council failed.
All sixteen US intelligence agencies failed as did those of America’s NATO and Israeli allies.
Air Traffic Control failed.
Airport Security failed four times at the same moment on the same day. The probability of such a failure is zero.
If such a thing had actually happened, there would have been demands from the White House, from Congress, and from the media for an investigation. Officials would have been held accountable for their failures. Heads would have rolled.
Instead, the White House resisted for one year the 9/11 families’ demands for an investigation. Finally, a collection of politicians was assembled to listen to the government’s account and to write it down. The chairman, vice chairman, and legal counsel of the 9/11 Commission have said that information was withheld from the commission, lies were told to the commission, and that the commission “was set up to fail.” The worst security failure in history resulted in not a single firing. No one was held responsible.
Washington concluded that 9/11 was possible because America lacked a police state.
The PATRIOT Act, which was awaiting the event was quickly passed by the congressional idiots. The Act established executive branch independence of law and the Constitution. The Act and follow-up measures have institutionalized a police state in “the land of the free.”
Osama bin Laden, a CIA asset dying of renal failure, was blamed despite his explicit denial. For the next ten years Osama bin Laden was the bogyman that provided the excuse for Washington to kill countless numbers of Muslims. Then suddenly on May 2, 2011, Obama claimed that US Navy SEALs had killed bin Laden in Pakistan. Eyewitnesses on the scene contradicted the White House’s story. Osama bin Laden became the only human in history to survive renal failure for ten years. There was no dialysis machine in what was said to be bin Laden’s hideaway. The numerous obituaries of bin Laden’s death in December 2001 went down the memory hole. And the SEAL team died a few weeks later in a mysterious helicopter crash in Afghanistan. The thousands of sailors on the aircraft carrier from which bin Laden was said to have been dumped into the Indian Ocean wrote home that no such burial took place.
The fairy tale story of bin Laden’s murder by Seal Team Six served to end the challenge by disappointed Democrats to Obama’s nomination for a second term. It also freed the “war on terror” from the bin Laden constraint. Washington wanted to attack Libya, Syria, and Iran, countries in which bin Laden was known not to have organizations, and the succession of faked bin Laden videos, in which bin Laden grew progressively younger as the fake bin Laden claimed credit for each successive attack, had lost credibility among experts.
Watching the twin towers and WTC 7 come down, it was obvious to me that the buildings were not falling down as a result of structural damage. When it became clear that the White House had blocked an independent investigation of the only three steel skyscrapers in world history to collapse as a result of low temperature office fires, it was apparent that there was a coverup.
After 13 years people at home and abroad find the government’s story less believable.
The case made by independent experts is now so compelling that mainstream media has opened to it. Here is Richard Gage of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth on C-SPAN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zbv2SvBEec#t=23
The only thing that surprises me about 9/11 these days is that new evidence linking Russia to the event hasn’t been fabricated, sorry, discovered yet.
The Deep State Guardian. Why don’t they just change their name to ‘The Daily Thatcherite’ and have done with it.
They should just show it’s full title: The Guardian Of The Establishment
‘Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, America’s Invisible Government, and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years’ Russ Baker- a fascinating account of the Bush family’s involvement in a great deal of nefarious activity. Bush senior is one of the few people who didn’t remember where he was when Kennedy was shot. Baker puts him in Dallas.
Now that G.H.W. Bush hss died, is there anybody suspected of involvement in the JFK assassination still alive?
I don’t know but as a fairly apolitical individual, I never much bothered with the Kennedy Assasination. All that changed when during the fiftieth anniversary, BBC Radio Four ran a program which included an interview with the Dallas police officer who was handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswald when he was shot by Jack Ruby. The consensus of that program was that the case was open shut and Oswald did it. Around that time, several newspapers in the UK featured articles claiming that Oswald acted alone.
Whether or not anyone actively involved still lives, their descendants still do and the probable organising body too. There still appears to be determination in some quarters to spread disinformation about the case. Given that as long ago as the late seventies the House of Representatives Assassination Committee concluded that JFK’s death was probably the consequence of a conspiracy, determination amongst the mainstream media to lay Kennedy’s death at the hands of Oswald alone suggests that there is still determination that the truth never becomes public.
Exactly what i was thinking!
I’m sickened by the Guardian’s and BBC’s obedience to the US neocon project to seek, or create, and destroy “enemies” and whilst ignoring all the disgusting atrocities that arise as a consequence.
The Guardian is not even worth the paper it’s printed on. It’s become The Guardian Of The Establishment rather than of the Truth which it used to proclaim.
It is in danger of losing its budgie-cage-liner status. If budgies can talk they may refuse to evacuate on it. What kind of person maintains ties to such a a poor excuse for cage toiletry. The moral crunch time for their journalists (actually their opinionists) came and went a long time ago.
What a great piece. My parents knew them in New York and they came over once and left behind an embossed packet of White House cigs. I asked my father (before he died) what he thought of them and all he ever said was he thought that Barbara was the intellect in the family.
Bloody annoying, thanks Pater.
From 2004
“The induction of DU weapons in 1991 in Iraq … broke a 46-year taboo. This Trojan Horse of nuclear war … continues to be used more and more. DU remains radioactive longer than the age of the earth (estimated at 4.5 billion years). The long-term effects from over a decade of DU exposures … are devastating. The increased quantities of radioactive material … used in Afghanistan are 3 to 5 times greater than Iraq, 1991. In Iraq, 2003, they are already estimated to be 6 to 10 times 1991, and will travel through a larger area and affect many more people, babies and unborn. Countries within a 1000-mile radius of Baghdad and Kabul are being affected by radiation poisoning …
“DU remains radioactive longer than […] 4.5 billion years.”
It’s worse than that. It loses half of its radioactivity in that time.
The good news is that that slow release means “D”U doesn’t zap you much. The bad news is it’s chemically toxic, like a heavy metal (which it is).
Also no mention of the body of circumstantial evidence linking Bush to JFK’s murder, though Bush repeatedly insisted that he couldn’t recall his whereabouts that day (I can precisely recall where I was, and I was 9 years old in 1963), in spite of the fact that solid documentary evidence exists that puts him in Dallas on Nov 22, 1963.
The very first Google Search I did was this, (George H.W. Bush+November 22, 1963) and it yielded a page like the following link, which began my research into the JFK Assassination.
http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=5420
Excellent article, Kit. Thank you for putting into words pretty much what I was thinking. The Guardian performed exactly the same ‘brainwashing’ exercise when McCain died.
The Guardian today is unrecognisable to the Guardian I started reading in early 2000’s. It became more and more obvious following the destruction of hard drives at the Guardian offices – if that even happened, that is.
Keep up the good work here, guys!
The Groan is a mere wraith, a nazgul of Saurons evil empire.
Kit and Off-G are the Hobbit hope of the world.
As soon as Cheney chokes on his last lungfull – the rest better find some dark deep hole, the shining light will burn them.
This article tells the unvarnished and unheralded truth! I was pleased to read the actual whole story, instead of the usual thin veneer that the mass media likes to foist on us. Thank you Mr. Knightly.
well, yeah. but for us mad people it goes deeper even than that.
https://geopolitics.co/2018/12/02/in-memoriam-george-h-scherff-jr-aka-george-hw-bush-sr/
Bush Sr. : Crypto-Nazi patriarch and his disciples
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Died before he could be brought to court with Blair for mass murder.
That odious specimen will never see The Hague either.
Neither could have happened, it’s just wishful thinking. These murderous thugs always get away with it.
“. . . to face whatever eternal punishment (hopefully) awaits those who sell their immortal soul. . . ” Can’t tell whether that’s a naive hope or a lampooned belief. Must be Poe’s Law at work.
David Icke might be mad, but he’s not really a bad person. He can’t understand how some people could be so evil so he thinks they must be ‘lizard people’. But they are psychopaths.
davids not mad
hey. “notmad”. maybe my new screen name. i like it.
David Notmad! Is that really you? We were at school together!
no im notmad
I’m down.
I think that calling them lizard people is a slur on lizards who are mainly harmless creatures.
i feel the same when they describe people as acting like animals. its an insult to animals.
>>> Did you know Genghis Khan once lent me a pencil? He was a swell guy. The world will miss him.
Made me LOL. At least we still have that.