57

THE CHINA HOAX: Is China Being Framed?

Godfree Roberts

Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.”
Noam Chomsky

I was researching Chinese censorship when – irony of ironies – I fell afoul of American censorship, providing an opportunity to update you on the state of the art under both regimes, starting at home, with the recent attempt to frame the President for crimes he did not commit.

Like many attempts to frame people, events and nations–Vietnam, Iraq, 9/11, JFK, Bin Laden–it was a State hoax, a falsehood deliberately fabricated to masquerade as truth. An atrocity story sustained by artful censorship and loud, proud, bold and brassy propaganda. An expensive, in-your-face, preposterous conspiracy, sustained for two years at great financial and reputational cost to the nation. Wildly ambitious, batshit crazy and so self-destructive as to boggle the mind, it was one of many propaganda-driven frame-ups, another of which in progress as you read these lines.

It checks all the boxes: big, bold, loud and proud, expensive, in-your-face, a preposterous hoax, daringly ambitious and utterly self-destructive.

The China Hoax frames China’s Confucian politics and economics as if they were – or should be – Roman. It explains why thousands of predictions of China’s collapse have been one hundred percent wrong for seventy years and why we keep repeating them, and why we think of China’s government as oppressively authoritarian when ninety-five percent of Chinese think it’s super. It also helps us see how the narrative is sustained by an almost totalitarian censorship regime.

It is well known that our censors–for that’s what they are–have silenced hundreds of thousands of Americans with National Security Letters[1] and, whenever those prove inadequate, have permanent authority to take control[2] of all American communications and information. If undesirable communications persist they can kidnap, imprison or execute the communicators[3] without fear of court trial or media criticism. Since China emerged as a threat to our hegemony six months ago they have tightened their control noticeably.

*

I bumped into them following a clue in Ann Lee’s story[4] about “A reporter and friend of Michael Massing[5], who worked at the Beijing office of The Wall Street Journal, who told Massing that the editors in Washington regularly changed material information and opinions in his articles. Given the twelve-hour time difference, by the time his stories went to press in the West, the editors had replaced all the Chinese interviews with statements from American talking heads who work at think tanks promoting anti-China perspectives.”

Congressional testimony from the CIA’s Victor Marchetti revealed the source of the talking heads’ funding: he told Congress that the Agency provided two hundred fifty million dollars annually[7], “To The Asia Foundation for anti-communist academicians to disseminate a negative vision of mainland China,” and paid journalists and publishers worldwide to do likewise.

I had always assumed that the government manipulates the news somehow and had I thought a little deeper I would have realized that, after spending billions on framing China, censors would eventually tire of pipsqueak consumers like me questioning their narrative.

Until two weeks ago my comments on China in mainstream media attracted thousands of responses (one-third angry) from millions of readers and provided priceless exposure for my upcoming book, I hoped. My readership stats climbed steadily until I received an email from Patrice Greanville on April 4 with a warning from Google:

When I forwarded it to him Patrice told me that, since Google downrated the Post as part of its fake news campaign it had become almost invisible in their searches.

The next day I received a message from the Financial Times (to which I also subscribed) informing me that my comments would be blocked thenceforth and, lo! they were:

I told another China-friendly FT commenter and he replied, “I was blocked last week.” When I checked the comment sections of China stories I found that positive comments had disappeared. One comment from a virulent China-basher, caught my eye, “Where are the wumao[8]? Have the fifty-centers given up?”

Three days later the leading comment plugin Disqus, which supports 750,000 websites and 35 million users, blocked me from a broad range of publications:

I was also blocked from several university-run China sites and two established China news services, Sinocism and SupChina (to which I also subscribe), whose mission is to publish negative stories about China. Yet uncensored fora like Unz Review, Greanville Post and Quora demonstrate that there is high and growing interest in fact-based China news–and growing suspicion of a frame-up. There is also–as we see daily in these pages–a growing awareness of our own censorship regime though a lack of knowledge about its makeup and authority.

We know that less than half of us trust our media and we know that, despite a Constitutional prohibition, we are censored. But we don’t know who our censors are, their goals or where to seek redress. Neither Congress, the Administration nor the courts are willing to admit the problem, which suggests that they are party to it.

Every year Reporters Without Borders[9] asks Western media experts to rank the world’s media freedom based on pluralism, independence, environment, self-censorship, legislation and transparency. In 2018, they ranked America’s media freedom a respectable forty-first, Singapore’s government-regulated media 154th and China’s ten times less free than leader Norway, at 176th.

Every year Edelman[10] surveys the world’s media consumers, asking how much they trust their media. Forty-two percent of Americans, fifty-two percent of Singaporeans and seventy-one percent of Chinese trust their national media.

Singapore’s Lee Kwan Yew,[11] whose relationship to media is both notorious and enlightening, told the American Society of Newspaper Editors why this is so.

The Philippines press enjoys all the freedoms of the US system but fails the people: a wildly partisan press helped Philippines politicians flood the marketplace of ideas with junk and confuse and befuddle the people so that they could not see what their vital interests were in a developing country. And, because vital issues like economic growth and equitable distribution were seldom discussed, they were never tackled and the democratic system malfunctioned. Look at Taiwan and South Korea: their free press runs rampant and corruption runs riot. The critic itself is corrupt yet the theory is, if you have a free press, corruption disappears. Now I’m telling you, that’s not true. Freedom of the press, freedom of news critics, must be subordinated to the overriding needs of the integrity of Singapore and to the primacy of purpose of an elected government.”

*

Politicians must use only such language as is proper for public speech and only speak of what is practical and proper to effect.”
Confucius, Analects 13.3.

The censorship scene in China could hardly be more different.

For two thousand years the Chief Censor has been a public intellectual and the incumbent, Wang Huning, is typical. He’s the most famous intellectual in a nation of intellectual-worshippers. His Master’s thesis, From Bodin to Maritain: On Sovereignty Theories Developed by the Western Bourgeoisie, won wide acclaim and millions watched him twice lead Fudan University to victory in the international Intercollegiate Debating Championships. After his PhD thesis, Comparative Political Analysis, became a famous book (one of twelve he’s authored) he became the youngest professor in Fudan’s history and headed its Law School until former President Jiang Zemin, quoting verbatim passages from his book, persuaded Wang to turn speechwriter. Jiang’s successor promoted him to the 25-man Politburo and his successor, President Xi, invited Wang to join his six man cabinet and his band of travelling companions. That makes three successive presidents who have esteemed him more than their predecessors.

Everyone knows Wang’s bio, his job description and the constitutional source of his authority: “Once a policy has been widely discussed, voted on and legislated, discussion is suspended while everyone unites to implement it.”

His online rules are commonsensical: no infringing, fake accounts, libel, disclosing trade secrets or invading privacy; no sending porn to attract users; no torture, violence, killing people or animals; no selling lethal weapons; no gambling, phishing, scamming or spreading viruses; no organizing crime, counterfeiting, false advertising, empty promises or bullying; no lotteries, rumor-mongering, promoting superstitions. No opposing the basic principles of the Constitution or national unity, sovereignty and territorial integrity and, of course, no divulging State secrets or endangering national security.

Wang’s part of a feedback loop helping to keep the leadership honest and his responsibilities are bidirectional: he must market leadership’s ideas to the citizenry and market their complaints to his colleagues.

As an intellectual he encourages free expression, says Harvard’s Gary King, “Contrary to much research and commentary, the purpose of the censorship program is not to suppress criticism of the State or the Communist Party. Indeed, despite widespread censorship of social critics, we find that when Chinese people write scathing criticisms of their government and its leaders the probability that their post will be censored does not increase. Instead, censored tweets were equally likely to be against the state, for the state, irrelevant, or factual reports about events. Negative, even vitriolic criticism of the state, its leaders and its policies are not more likely to be censored.”

Even investigative journalists[12], though as embattled in China as elsewhere, publish front-page exposes in mainstream media with strong public support.

The Chinese are not naive about censorship. It is an honored public service, constitutionally and legislatively delimited, that operates in the glare of public scrutiny. Wang is often asked to explain his decisions[12] and I have yet to find accurate, useful or professional information blocked.

Deborah Fallows[13] found that over eighty percent of Chinese want their media regulated and eighty-five percent of those who do want the government doing it, as do most people in the world. Everyone everywhere trusts state outlets like the BBC twice as much as private media and seventy percent of Chinese trust their media – right in line with Singaporeans and their famously regulated media. If we want to find out what is really going on in our own country and abroad we must find ways to create trustworthy media, otherwise we’re fumbling in the dark.

For example, we’re told China steals our IP when there is zero evidence of theft and abundant evidence that they outspend us 4:1 on R&D.

That’s mad. If we don’t know that underinvestment in research cost us the 5G race, or that Chinese scientists do half of our domestic research, how can we respond effectively–or at all?

The China Hoax is a cruel joke and the joke’s on us.

Godfree Roberts received his doctorate from UMass, Amherst and is desperately trying to finish the manuscript for his forthcoming book, China’s Confucian Solution: How China beat poverty, hunger, homelessness, crime, inequality, government waste and corruption.

NOTES:

  • [1] National Security Letters are administrative subpoenas with gag orders enjoining recipients from divulging to anyone that they’ve been served.
  • [2] Executive Order 10995: Assigning Telecommunications Management Functions and EO 12472: Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions Act.
  • [3] In 2011 President Obama ordered the execution of Anwar al Awlaki, an American citizen, for preaching Wahabbism and separately executed his sixteen-year-old son and eight-year-old daughter, all without trial.
  • [4] What the U.S. Can Learn from China, Ann Lee. 2012
  • [5] Former Executive Editor of The Columbia Journalism Review.
  • [6] The CIA and the cult of Intelligence, by V. Marchetti. 1976. The first book an American government censored prior to publication
  • [7] In 2019 US$
  • [8] An epithet flung at commenters who explain or justify Chinese policies. FP itself explains, “Wumao means ‘fifty cents’ in Chinese and is slang for web users who reliably take the government’s side. How to Spot a State-Funded Chinese Internet Troll. Foreign Policy, June 17, 2015.
  • [9] 2018 WORLD PRESS FREEDOM INDEX
  • [10] 2018 Edelman Trust Barometer, January, 2018.
  • [11] A Third World Perspective on the Press. RH Lee Kwan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore. C-SPAN, APRIL 14, 1988
  • [12] Media Politics in China: Improvising Power under Authoritarianism by Maria Repnikova, C.U.P., July 15, 2017
  • [13] To complaints that he censored a viral essay, Beijing Has 20 Million People Pretending to Live Here, about the city being overrun by outsiders, he explained, “It polarizes relations between prosperous Beijingers and inflames ill feeling towards the vulnerable immigrants who sweep their streets.”
  • [14] Most Chinese Say They Approve of Government Internet Control, by Deborah Fallows, Senior Research Fellow, Pew Internet & American Life Project March 27, 2008

SUPPORT OFFGUARDIAN

If you enjoy OffG's content, please help us make our monthly fund-raising goal and keep the site alive.

For other ways to donate, including direct-transfer bank details click HERE.

Categories: China, empire watch, latest
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

57 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Arby
Arby
May 11, 2019 9:03 PM

Where did the comments go?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 11, 2019 10:02 PM
Reply to  Arby

What comments are you referring to?

Arby
Arby
May 12, 2019 12:45 PM

For a few days, I saw only a fraction of the comments that were here. My browser is Pale Moon. I see everything now. I have no idea what’s going on. I assumed it was on your end and would be corrected, since all of this is new. Perhaps it was my browser.

Maggie
Maggie
May 10, 2019 9:02 PM

Sorry, but I DO NOT like the new format.

Arby
Arby
May 11, 2019 9:01 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Well, It’s off topic, but as long is that is out here; Whatever small annoyances present themselves with this format, it is very, very improved. I really have no complaints. It’s functional, my main concern. I don’t think it looks awful. It will take some getting used to, but it works well.

MLS
MLS
May 11, 2019 10:14 PM
Reply to  Arby

‘I don’t think it looks awful’? – faint praise much? 😀

For me, OffG has always been one of the most lovely-looking sites I visit, and the new design is absolutely beautiful.

Maggie – what’s not to like? The old comments were ghastly and infuriating. These look pretty and have functionality too.

Arby
Arby
May 13, 2019 1:41 PM
Reply to  MLS

You did notice that the main thrust of my comment was ‘very’ favorable toward the new design, Right? Can I have an opinion about it? Does it have to be exactly the same as yours?

George Cornell
George Cornell
May 10, 2019 10:42 AM

Very informative. Thanks.

BigB
BigB
May 9, 2019 11:58 AM

China is being framed all right – as a negentropic neoliberal hopium. I’m supremely interested in the dynamic of West v East framing. If West is bad, to which there can be no counter-argument – then China must be better? Absolutely true: but what about the ultimate truth – the whole system – West and East is financially suicidal and exponentially omnicidal? And the expansionist, extractivist progress-theology imaginal is leading where? Who the fuck wants 5G? Or fintech financialisation of everything – including humanity and nature. Or AI-redundancy for the global workforce. Orwellian progress is regress …leading us exponentially into a debt-deflationary entropic blackhole I’ve already posted that China’s finance is a sub-imperial extension of the Washington Consensus. The NDB, AIIB, and CRA are all dollarised for loans. This is easily verifiable or refutable. This means sub-imperial loans force poor countries into dollar vassalship and export led production – aka the resource curse. It was the BRICS countries that refinanced the IMF – easily verifiable. There is more: but I no longer seek to convince anyone in return for downvotes. The picture is clear: China is fully integrated under the WTO ‘Rules Based Global Order’ …and committed to ‘Global Governance’. There is nothing that can be done about it. But actively celebrating our entropic, debt-deflationary. death spiral seem a tad necessary to me. And even if the debt-financed, asset bubble, global Ponzi scheme were to survive – which seems increasingly unlikely (in a bid for more power, even the IMF and BIS forecast GFC2) – is the teleology of the financialisation of everything where we want to go? Hint: I would much rather go in the opposite direction. All progress is is the leveraging of human labour by ever greater densities of energy. The teleology of which, in an entropic… Read more »

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:16 PM

Why is 5G is a good thing? One view that helps me to understand that 5G is only good for machines can be found in this article: “Verizon Video Features Employees Explaining How They Are Ignoring “The Precautionary Principle” to Unleash Harmful 5G Technology All Over The World.” by BN Frank (Activist Post) – https://www.activistpost.com/2018/07/verizon-video-features-employees-explaining-how-they-are-ignoring-the-precautionary-principle-to-unleash-harmful-5g-technology-all-over-the-world.html

Maybe the author also got his rosy view of JFK from Reporters Without Borders. Check out this article by ? (21st Century Wire) about Vanessa Beeley’s Swiss Press Club presentation titled “Vanessa Beeley Presents Exposé on White Helmets at Swiss Press Club in Geneva.” – https://21stcenturywire.com/2017/11/28/vanessa-beeley-presents-new-white-helmets-expose-to-swiss-press-club-geneva/

A blurb from the above linked-to article follows: “The western-driven myth of the White Helmets continue[s] to disintegrate. Despite the efforts of alleged ‘free speech’ advocate NGO Reporters Without Borders to shut this event down, Swiss Press Club head Guy Mettan went ahead as scheduled. Reports Without Borders even went as far as to draft a formal complaint demanding the event be cancelled, alongside protestations by UK-based ‘Syrian opposition’ group Syria Campaign.”

“John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy Were Terrorists” by Arby – https://app.box.com/s/nrb7s56g6qzwi9323nuve1irt8oe4lpc

Other than that, I liked the article and can relate. I’m being censored myself. Look at the brave censors (appointed paid gatekeepers), hiding. Of course.

Agate
Agate
May 8, 2019 2:00 PM

I always read Godfrey Robert’s articles whenever I see them. Although I don’t agree 100% with everything he says I must applaud and thank his efforts to explain and clarify things about China. The level of China bashing has increased a lot and is a close second to Jew bashing if you will. Even in places like Unz where people are supposed to be seeking for facts and truth it’s like a knee-jerk reaction to bash the author and anything chinese. For goodness sake, no country, culture or anything is 100% all good or bad. I for one just want to have the bare facts and make up my own mind about what is good or bad.

George Cornell
George Cornell
May 10, 2019 10:45 AM
Reply to  Agate

I think it is second to none, now.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
May 8, 2019 7:58 AM

It’s a bit disconcerting on the new layout when, looking for the comments, you have to scroll past an ad. for Patreon, with a plea for money couched in USD denomination. I thought OffG was a home-grown Brit outfit. No need to join in the current knee-jerk prostration in Britain to all things US by dumping our own currency, is there? Especially since the USD is now on a terminal, accelerating dive down the tubes as ‘world reserve currency’, as the Anglozionst empire declines irreversibly against the rise of Russo-Chinese global imperialism. And be warned: Patreon is crooked. They have already tried to censor some of their creators; and they are distinctly unhelpful when you’re trying to communicate with them, or to unsubscribe. I’ve switched to SubscribeStar, on Dmitry Orlov’s recommendation (he got unhelpful aggro from Patreon as well). Just a thought: Don’t endorse Patreon, OffGers. It’s already iffy. Suffering the inevitable corruption of SiliconValley-oid commercial internet outfits, all inevitably in bed with the crooks of the US deep state, pretty well from their over-profitable, gangster-capitalist outset.

Ray Raven
Ray Raven
May 8, 2019 1:45 PM

The ‘two-way speech bubbles’ symbol (for comments) adjacent to the date at the top of the article is the short-cut link to the comments section at the bottom of the page.

UreKismet
UreKismet
May 8, 2019 2:49 AM

Hmm,I have no doubt that Godfree Roberts speaks facts, which is illuminating for many, as well as needed,but as the citizen of a small state I prefer to regard all large powerful sovereign entities with the old hairy eyeball because AFAIK overly large states especially those with centralised decision making eg the USA and the PRC cannot effectively meet the needs of all citizens. But that is for the citizens of those states to deal with, my main concern is when those large states begin using their size to interfere in the lives of non-citizens, people who are content being part of a smaller less powerful but more responsive to the needs of its citizens sovereign entity. In that regard the USA, the PRC plus the governments of now failed imperialists such as england and france meddle the fuck out of our political systems. england and the US have been doing it where I live since well before my arsehole has been pointing down, so has france, so you can imagine our disappointment that despite the words of the magnificent Zhou Enlai (see https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/zhou-enlai/1963/08/02.htm for an example of his stated desire to live in a world without conflict) that China would eschew all forms of imperialism, that is unfortunately no longer the case and not only does the PRC illegally and secretively interfere in the politics of many Pacific nations, it does so in favour of repressive right wing governments, presumably in the belief that (a) rightist pols are more ‘realistic’ about copping quiet earners and (b) promoting bent pro-business administrations is more lucrative for China. I’m sure that China is not the first foreign country to have planted an intelligence operative as an MP in Aotearoa’s parliament (see https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/13/46657/national-mp-trained-by-chinese-spies#) but that does not excuse the action if anything it… Read more »

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 8, 2019 1:18 AM

The Chinese hierarchy, like every other hierarchy around the world, wants two things.
Unassailable power and compliant masses.
Whatever it takes.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 8, 2019 1:49 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

Confucian hierarchy has lasted 2200 years because it’s a non-hereditary meritocracy of compassion.

If that sounds hard to believe, consider this: the 90 million members of the current hierarchy contribute $1 billion in annual dues and one trillion volunteer hours. They brought 400 million people from agricultural backwardness into modernity in just thirty years – a process of industrialization that took over 200 years in Europe.

If that sounds hard to believe, look at the current evidence: next year every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health- and old age care and 500,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of American kids.

Before 2021 there will be more drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 8, 2019 1:46 PM

‘Meritocracy of compassion’
An oxymoron if ever I’ve heard one.
With status through education comes arrogance. It’s a human pandemic among the middle class.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 9, 2019 1:15 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

“With status through education comes arrogance. It’s a human pandemic among the middle class.”

It is pandemic in our socially and emotionally immature Roman society. In Confucian society, higher education is designed to mature the student.

They study Confucius as a meditation upon compassion with the intention of internalizing and practicing it. The evidence that they do practice it is in my reply to the question above.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 9, 2019 1:47 AM

Your circle of highly educated Chinese friends may follow Confucianism Godfrey, but from what I’ve gleaned the average middle class Chinese ( like most of their kind around the world) are ambitious, rabid materialists who love to jet around the planet.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 9, 2019 2:48 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

Agreed. But they’re smart enough not to allow such people to enter government.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 9, 2019 3:53 AM

Sorry I misspelled your name Godfree.
I have no doubt that China is a far more egalitarian society than most.
But a benevolent government?
It beggars belief.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 9, 2019 5:53 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

Our media has relied on belief and rarely presents facts. As Victor Marchetti’s testimony, above, makes clear, our media actively filter out good news about China and replace it with innuendo and anecdotes that serve their purpose.

I don’t know if there ever was a long-term goal behind that practice, but now it’s biting us on the ass: they’re so far ahead and have so much momentum that there’s no chance of catching them. You’ll see much more of their progress revealed between now and June 1, 2021, when they will change course and become much more socialistic.

Here’s my favorite quote that summarizes their relationship to the government:

“The reason the State enjoys a formidable legitimacy in the eyes of the Chinese has nothing to do with democracy but can be found in the relationship between the State and Chinese civilization. The State is seen as the embodiment, guardian and defender of Chinese civilization. Maintaining the unity, cohesion and integrity of the Chinese civilization-state is perceived as the highest political priority, the sacrosanct task of the Chinese State. Unlike in the West, where the State is viewed with varying degrees of suspicion, even hostility, and regarded, as a consequence, as an outsider, in China the state is seen as an intimate, as part of the family, indeed as the head of the family.”
– When China Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order: Second Edition Paperback – August 28, 2012. by Martin Jacques.

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:22 PM

All of which says, at the least, that there’s a discussion to be had here. But I hardly believe in China’s ruling class which has been complicit with the West (as in powerful, capitalist special interests and their political tools) in exploiting their own workforce.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 9, 2019 1:12 AM
Reply to  Arby

China’s ruling class has not been complicit with the West (as in powerful, capitalist special interests and their political tools) in exploiting their own workforce. Quite the contrary.

Because it’s a non-hereditary meritocracy, China doesn’t have a ruling class.

And, far from exploiting them, China’s leaders have doubled workers’ wages every decade for 70 years with the result that, by 2021 every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health- and old age care. 

That same year 500,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of American kids and liver longer, healthier lives. And there will be more drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

Does that look like exploitation to you?

Arby
Arby
May 10, 2019 5:51 PM

I’m not a China expert. I’m just someone who pays attention. But what does that mean? That means that I have to go by what others are reporting. And how do I know who’s bullcrapping me and who isn’t? Because I’ve been paying attention, I have a fairly good idea who ‘would’ bullcrap me, which is not a guarantee of course (and most of those whose work I find useful, fail in some manner, or up and one day go entirely over to the dark side). It’s actually still very difficult, in the absence of a ‘lot’ of reportage on any subject, to get a good idea of what the truth might be. For example, Are you okay with China’s social credit system? Is that true? Was Naomi Klein’s report (which resides on her website) “China’s All Seeing Eye” bullcrap? And supposing that China’s political leaders were and are nice people, that doesn’t change the fact that when you are working (and What about conditions?) for peanuts, you are being exploited – unless there’s free rent, food, etc.. to the low wage earners. What about deregulation (a gift to bosses at the people’s expense, wherever it takes place, for whatever reasons)? Does China still use, without even hiding the fact, DDT in its agriculture? I’m not unaware of some of the counter arguments. I read somewhere that China’s great internet firewall was at least partly a response to their ruling class’s (we disagree strongly here about there being no Chinese ruling class) realization that other States had zero scruples about using the internet in China to destabilize the country. Also, I was please to read – again, if it’s true – that the Chinese ruling class is not keen on continuing to be the kind of manufacturer (for the West)… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 11, 2019 1:52 AM
Reply to  Arby

IT sounds like a kiss off but it’s not: 99% of what you’ve read about modern China is bullshit. Massacres, starvation, exploitation, brutal crackdowns, financial collapses, insecure governments, democracy advocates, human rights fighters….

The CIA’s Victor Marchetti testified that the Agency provided $250,000,000 annually to The Asia Foundation for ‘anti-communist academicians to disseminate a negative vision of mainland China’. That’s just for academics, who are cheap! journalists and publishers made out like banditti. They guy who wrote ‘Mao’s Great Famine’ got $2,000,000.

We are living in a fools’ paradise. China is already ahead of us scientifically, technologically, socially, morally, legally and ethically. That’s why there’s so much attention on China right now. Everything I’ve said here is becoming known, thanks to tourism and the Internet. The gap is widening every day.

If you’re interested in China, check the stats, not the b.s. news. China’s stats are excellent (despite our MSM’s scoffing at them, have you ever seen a single one disproven?) and you can follow their actual progress through them.

BigB
BigB
May 11, 2019 8:01 AM

Sorry, Godfree: China’s meteoric rise is only good if you believe in pointless neoliberal expansionism. An expansionism that comes with hidden social and financial costs. The financial costs being around $40tn in hidden debt. That is deliberately hidden, by transferring ‘off-book’ into shadow banking. Source: the PBOC China financial stability report – FY2017 and FY2018. The disclosure is on page 48 of the first report. Back then, it was 109% of on-book debt. So, take China’s debt, and double it to $92tn. China has an everything bubble that it is going to be “painful” to recover from. That is central bank-speak for “we’re fucked”. All these so-called gains you are talking about are illusory; the result of debt financing and addiction to credit stimulus (QE ‘money printing’). They are borrowing 23% pa just to tread water, but the interest debt servicing is becoming harder to finance (50% of fake GDP). So it is rolled over, restructured, and on they go. Their finances are Ponzified. They create $25 to make a $1 GDP. China’s ‘debt bomb’ of debt to GDP breaching 300% in 2017 [IIF] is no illusion. It is not fake news. It is not US propaganda. And it is not recoverable. Which, as China is the engine of the global neoliberal dreambus, is not good for any of us. The ersatz prosperity and fake materialist progress are a total illusion if they will one day self-implode. And they will one day self-implode. And the day of China’s ‘Minsky Moment’ will be sooner, rather than later. They recently announced they were ending relentless credit stimulus, and world shares dropped (something like 15%) …so they started easing again. Rumours are they will expand easing if Trump imposes tariffs. Fighting fire with fire. Cutting lending standards and handing out Yuan loans to… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 11, 2019 8:53 AM
Reply to  BigB

As a percentage of total bank assets, Chinese shadow banks rank below world average.

Shadow banking accounts for 180% of American bank assets, 160% of Netherland’s, 50% of Britain’s and 40% of China’s.

Shadow banks are universal and useful and, if anyone can control them, China can.

Here’s a shadow banking chart from the US Financial Stability Board:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ELMh2CKph49NFy7ZBfVAdLwsZEf0GO15

George Cornell
George Cornell
May 10, 2019 10:48 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

Are you cursing human nature?

Mucho
Mucho
May 7, 2019 9:20 PM

This article, the whole thing, it’s bullshit. How can you have an article on Chinese censorship without mentioning China’s Social Credit Score System. It’s no f**king wonder that 95% of Chinese people give a big thumbs up to China and everything it does and stands for, if they don’t kiss its ass they can’t buy a f**king train ticket or get a job! LOL

Read this link and cry with laughter and fear all at once. China’s Social Credit System is…..the future of everywhere.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

Make no mistake, 5G is all about bringing this kind of sick system to the rest of the world, now the bastards in power already realise what a success using fear, blackmail and manipulation to control people at levels they salivate about is. The Internet of Things……”noose please Matron!”

Then there’s this little pearler…..”If we don’t know that underinvestment in research cost us the 5G race”…….I’m sorry……the 5G race? The weaponised airwaves race, the massive surge in exposure to radiation 24/7 race, the government stepping up surveillance to 1984 on steroids race? I could go on. Oh dear, why did you not rename your website The Guardian 2 with the re-jig. Subtly embedding the idea that implementing 5G, which has NOT BEEN TESTED FOR HEALTH AND SAFETY, is some kind of race, re-inforcing the mantra of Donald Trump, is just plain low. Shame on you.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
May 7, 2019 11:52 PM
Reply to  Editor

That’s precisely the problem, there are none. There should be. It’s a lot easier (= cheaper) to run short term tests on new electromagnetic technologies than on the much over-ballyhooed tests on new drugs (long term tests require long terms, so aren’t even on the horizon for anything at all under the institutionalized social contempt that characterizes quarterly-results capitalism) but it’s become so blatant that anything electronic with bankable commercial clout behind it can escape even the often far too cursory (albeit $multimillion) sort of examination that the FDA insists on for pills. Right now the problem is not the untested technology, it’s the sheer nakedness of the well tested social contempt.

(Well, OK, it’s the potentially lethal – especially in the long term – bioenvironmental effect of the 5G system as well, though in terms of the real danger – the politics that underly it – that’s just a [detail]), in the same way that, in a ‘conventional’ war, it’s the grunts that get killed is just a [detail].)

Simon Hodges
Simon Hodges
May 8, 2019 1:59 PM
Reply to  Editor

5G and the Internet of Things herald a nightmarish big brother future even if the health and safety concerns were unfounded. Sadly there has been zero evaluation of 5G H&S.

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:31 PM
Reply to  Editor

Then you should reach out to those who have done so.

Mucho
Mucho
May 7, 2019 9:36 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Hard evidence that 5G has most certainly not been tested for health and safety, from the US Senate and telcoms big fish

Mucho
Mucho
May 8, 2019 4:05 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Here’s a great vid, telling it like it is.

Jen
Jen
May 8, 2019 3:28 AM
Reply to  Mucho

As a matter of fact, Godfree Roberts has indeed written an article on China’s Social Credit system which would be worth reposting on Off-Guardian.org in its own right ATL, as it’s rather long.

Social Credit, Datong Dreams

Some of the BTL discussion at the Unz Review website is worth reading as well.

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:30 PM
Reply to  Jen

I agree with The Greanville Post staff on the Unz Review. They don’t deserve censorship, but they ‘are’ on the Right.

Jen
Jen
May 9, 2019 1:40 AM
Reply to  Arby

The Unz Review has published articles by John Pilger, among others. Are you going to avoid reading anything by John Pilger from now on, because he has been published there?

Perhaps you should go back to reading a reliable “Leftist” media outlet … like The Guardian?

Arby
Arby
May 10, 2019 6:03 PM
Reply to  Jen

Whoa! Did I say that I wouldn’t read Unz Review material? I have never been a Guardian reader (except maybe when one someone, in a forum like Off Guardian, linked to something written there), and will never be a reader of the Guardian. But, go ahead and go crazy and make up facts. It’s a free universe. I remember a Jen here who was fairly level-headed. These are strange times.

If we don’t inform ourselves and each other then we are ruining ourselves. I, for one, have no intention of going that route.

Arby
Arby
May 10, 2019 7:21 PM
Reply to  Jen

The author has put a positive spin on something that I think normal people would find horrifying. We don’t agree with censorship because we understand that 1. it’s wrong on principle and 2. Who are the censors? Same thing with regard to China’s social credit system. The censors here are just as virtuous (to go by their claims) and have the same positive social goal (to go by their claims) as Roberts’s Chinese ruling class. I think there’s a lesson in that fact. I don’t know about China’s ruling class the way I know about the US ruling class (even though I’m Canadian), but I don’t think that individuals within the Chinese ruling class are any less imperfect than people everywhere. (And that’s important as I explain in my essay titled “Progressives,” which I’ll link to here.) I do think that China is as unblessed as any other God-rejecting nation, with serious consequences for that nation. Yes, I’m a Christian. And, to the extent that there’s anything good about China’s social credit system and its architects and managers, as the Christian Bible (Psalm 127) makes clear, “Unless Jehovah builds the house, it is in vain that its builders have worked hard on it.” Are the Chinese political leaders seeking to completely harmonize their standards with the Creator’s standards? It’s Jesus Christ, and his Father, who I believe in. And I’ll believe in any who do not reject God’s standards. Much of what Roberts says about the Chinese ruling class indeed sounds Godly. But I’m not even close to buying that that ruling class is virtuous and not a danger to its own people. Sorry. “Progressives” – https://arrby.wordpress.com/2018/12/26/progressives/ The author wants us to believe that the Chinese ruling class is only virtuous and their social credit system can only result in… Read more »

Jen
Jen
May 10, 2019 11:09 PM
Reply to  Arby

Your issue with China’s Social Credit scheme is that the Chinese are creating a virtual social experiment that will effectively recreate and shape anew the country’s legal system, commerce and social conduct from the bottom up (that is, from point of view of everyday people’s lives), as opposed to recreating and shaping the society from the top down according to a particular set of values and principles which expects everyone – let’s see, that would be some 1.3 billion people belonging to no fewer than 50 different ethnic groups and who historically have believed in many different religions and belief systems including Daoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism and all their different versions (including heretical sects) – to believe and adhere to, at the same time abandoning all those other rival sets of values and principles and belief systems that worked for them more or less over the past 2,500 years.

Your comment effectively seems to be advocating a theocracy to be imposed upon a society. I doubt that most Off-Guardian.org readers would not find the implications of your comment equally as horrifying as you find Godfree Roberts’ article on China’s Social Credit system.

From what Roberts has said about the scheme in his article, he has not said that the scheme stops people from making their own choices and decisions. From what I can see, the scheme privileges certain behaviours over others by awarding some extra brownie points and taking away points from others; it may be encouraging people to practise some form of self-censoring behaviour. Whether it encourages people to internalise the reasoning behind its rewarding of certain behaviours over others, and whether that’s a good thing or not, that should be the issue.

Arby
Arby
May 12, 2019 1:03 PM
Reply to  Jen

Chinese citizens can make their own choices within their social credit system? Okay. But when the State doesn’t like what you’re saying, what are the consequences of that, because ‘that’ is the issue? Once the State punishes you for your decisions, Will you feel free to stick to your principles afterward? Julian Assange was free to leave the embassy at any time according to (dead) liberals…

You and the author here want people to simply agree with you. You have no time for other views or for serious discussion, unless it’s discussion that supports your position. Forgive me for being as brazen as you. You told me (and therefore others) that I follow major media, when in fact the opposite is the truth. So perhaps you should be willing to take what you give, namely me telling you what you think and do. But I think that only one of us has it right. (Anyone can read my blog – A Yappy Trade Barrier – which, with my series [with three categories: 1. Professional Scam Artists 2. The Avalanche Snapshots and 3. Lawlessness / Ruined), serves as a clearinghouse for alternative media reports. Any references to establishment rags like WaPo or NYT or The Guardian will be negative.) You mischaracterized me and I’m sorting that out.

China’s social credit system scares the crap out of me. So do those who promote it on progressive websites like Off Guardian.

Jen
Jen
May 13, 2019 4:38 AM
Reply to  Arby

Well if I scare the crap out of you along with China’s social credit system, that seems to be your problem.

I’m only asking if the real issue with the social credit system is whether it encourages self-censorship or encourages people gaming the system by trying to score brownie points in some areas to gain advantages in others; or if it encourages people to internalise the values and principles it claims to uphold, such as honesty. In other words, if people grow up with the social credit system, and then travel to countries where similar systems don’t operate, would these people find themselves lost or would they be able to use what they have learned from the system and adapt to a new and unfamiliar social environment? These are very serious questions we should be asking about the system.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
May 8, 2019 6:30 AM
Reply to  Mucho

Whatever your feelings about the social credit system 5G is just a communication technology, or rather, a suite of communication technologies, its essentially no different from 3G or 4GLTE in what it does. The point about under investment is, regrettably, true; we in the US have dropped the ball somewhat, resulting in the deployment of something marketed as ‘5G E’, with the ‘E’ supposedly standing for ‘Evolution’ but in the words of the head of one of the associations charged with developing and deploying international standards really means ‘Ersatz’. (Estimates of how far we are behind vary from two to five years.) Since we’re getting 5G — whether we want it or not — the local papers are full of letters warning of the grave dangers of microwave radiation. This is not a good way to oppose 5G; electromagnetic radiation comes from all sorts of sources such as the sun and the streetlights that the 5G microcells are mounted on. Thinking there’s invisible danger is just playing into the hands of the technology companies because there is no scientific evidence or logical reasoning for this objection. There are plenty of reasons not to like 5G, though. Its basically a solution looking for a problem and in the hands of modern marketing types its designed primarily to enable microtransactions from everyday household objects. (Modern marketing loves the rental model.) In reality the Internet of Things is more likely to be the Internet of Vulnerabilities, it will be like living with constant Windows updates without even the promise of a maybe working computer at the end of it. Now, about China, social credit and the like. One problem with the Red Menace school of everyday propaganda is it doesn’t take into account that there are a lot of Chinese people about, people… Read more »

Mucho
Mucho
May 8, 2019 3:57 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

If there is nothing to hide, there is nothing to fear. On this basis, we must have full transparent, independent, health and safety testing BEFORE this crap is foisted upon the public. This is basic common sense, anyone who says otherwise is a brainwashed, stupid moron. Once installed, our bodies will be subject to millimeter waveforms 24/7, no escape, anyhwere. F**k that. It is not just a communication system. First and foremost it is a surveillance system, with a badge on it which says “I am a communications system”, enough to fool people who have been dog trained to submit to this kind of bullshit. 5G and its applications would have Orwell reaching for the whiskey. It uses millimeter wave technology, used as a weapon by the military. You shills going around saying “oh it’s just the same as 4G and 3G” are nothing but liars, peddling lies. If there are no issues surrounding 5G, why no testing? Why has the industry spent not one red cent testing for health and saftety? It’s not the same. You know it, I know it, so stop lying. “the local papers are full of letters warning of the grave dangers of microwave radiation. This is not a good way to oppose 5G”. I’m glad to hear people are speaking out. We need more of this. “They have to encourage socially correct behavior (which, if you’ve seen video of Chinese people storming an all you can eat buffet is probably a very good idea). ” Ok Adolf, whatever you say. You are revealing yourself as someone who has been brainwashed to a frightening level, when you say things like this. Justifying a Nazi like system such as the Chinese Social Credit System on the basis of how folk react at an all you can… Read more »

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:29 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

You’re supporting a social credit system? Really? Who are you?

Yarkob
Yarkob
May 8, 2019 8:14 AM
Reply to  Mucho

i’m not sure a “business insider” article cuts the mustard around here. you did read this article, right? you just proved the authors point nicely

Mucho
Mucho
May 8, 2019 3:11 PM
Reply to  Yarkob

Please let me know which parts of the article I linked to are not true. I was making the point that the author is trying to sell us the Chinese Utopia, by informing us how positively the Chinese respond to questions about their government, when there is a dystopian system in place which punishes them if they do not support the government or show signs of dissent. He fails to mention this, qhich is totally disingenuous. No wonder they responded positively.

I thought the article on business insider (a website I couldn’t give a flying horse’s ass about) was fine, they quote their sources and clearly lay out the “creepiness” of this system. No apologies

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:26 PM
Reply to  Mucho

I’m also concerned about a James Corbett report on how Nicolas Maduro is thinking of using a similar social credit system in Venezuela. I hope that James is wrong. If not, there goes Maduro’s credibility. Noam Chomsky, who the author quotes favorably, has some spicy things to say about that social credit system.

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:24 PM
Reply to  Mucho

That’s something like I said.

KarenEliot
KarenEliot
May 7, 2019 8:30 PM

Thank you, very interesting, but I would have to dispute this phrase near the end: “Everyone everywhere trusts state outlets like the BBC twice as much as private media “

I can only speak for myself. My trust in the Official State Broadcaster is no higher, and indeed rather a lot lower, than the credibility I’d attach to private media. (No honourable exception for the den of vipers run by the Scott Trust). At least a shitty rag like The Sun doesn’t pretend to be objective and eschews the smoke and mirrors put out to try and obscure the out-and-out propaganda that gushes from the old Etonian mobsters who run the Beeb.

Glad to see the site move has been successful (or appears to have been).

Gerda Halvorsen
Gerda Halvorsen
May 7, 2019 9:17 PM
Reply to  KarenEliot

I second KarenEliot. I used to also hold the BBC up as the most trustworthy of all news outlets. I don’t remember the exact moment when all this changed, but it became more and more noticeable around the time of David Kelly’s death that something was wrong. Silly me, I used to have a high opinion of The Guardian as well. Now to try to interpret what is happening around the planet I have to look in ten or twenty places in the four languages I am comfortable reading, and try to figure it out by myself…

Arby
Arby
May 8, 2019 8:34 PM

Keep doing what you’re doing, because there’s no other way for you to get a handle on things. Alternative doesn’t automatically mean better. And progressive can be fake or can be progressive today and traitorous tomorrow. And even when the label of progressive is attached to some individual or org, they are not going to be right about everything. (And sometimes their blind spots are serious.) I’ve seen enough of that to be sure of that.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
May 8, 2019 10:17 AM
Reply to  KarenEliot

I’ve recently suffered the same loss of faith in the ABC. It’s China-bashing is atrocious.

Have those state media really sold out or are we just better informed these days?

DomesticExtremist
DomesticExtremist
May 9, 2019 6:06 AM

Have those state media really sold out or are we just better informed these days?

Excellent question.
Prior to the internet, those state funded or state regulated media were our sole window on the world.
A lucky few who had access to overseas information were able to discover that other narrative versions of the same events were available – I got my first inklings that the BBC was unreliable when I lived in France in the 90s.
With the internet came an explosion in alternative views, some outlandish but many offering the thing our overlords dislike the most – nuance.