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The Case that Obama Was a Traitor Just Got Powerful New Evidence — From the DNC! Filings in Roger Stone case reveal lack of evidence supporting “Russiagate” allegations

Eric Zuesse

Roger Stone on his way to court, June 2019

The case that Obama’s team concocted Russiagate in order to weaken Trump if Trump were to win the Presidency has just received an important admission. The Government has acknowledged that the Obama administration lied to the FISA Court in order to get permission to investigate Trump for possible collusion with Russia.

This information came from the DNC’s own lawyer, to the current U.S. Justice Department, in the case of United States of America v. Roger J. Stone Jr.

In response to Trump operative Roger Stone’s defense effort against Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s charges, the “Government’s Response to Defendant’s Motion to Compel Unredacted Crowdstrike Reports” (available here – choose “txt” if you want to download it) acknowledges that [our emphasis]:

On June 14, 2016, the DNC, via CrowdStrike, publicly announced that it had been hacked by Russian government actors. … [But,] According to counsel [from DNC — this comes from what the DNC has communicated to the U.S. Department of Justice and is now being made public in the “Government’s Response” to Stone’s filing], no redacted information concerned the attribution of the attack to Russian actors.”

And, since all the rest, the unredacted information, likewise didn’t “concern the attribution of the attack to Russian actors” (as everyone now knows after reading the Mueller Report, because it admits this), the Obama Government actually had nothing that could be presented to the FISA Court without lying, in order for the Obama regime to be able to win that Court’s permission to investigate Trump as being a possible Russian agent.

In other words: Obama’s preparation, just in case Trump might defeat Hillary Clinton, included DNC-Clinton campaign fabrication of ‘evidence’ (via the DNC-hired CrowdStrike) to implicate Trump in treason with Russia, so as to get the FISA Court’s okay and then proceed to cripple Trump’s Presidency.

This was an internal U.S. Government war against then-candidate Trump, in order to cripple his Presidency, in the event that Trump might win — as he did.

However, can the previous President be brought up on any criminal charges at all for initiating an action to cripple his successor’s Presidency?

This is a legal question with no precedent other than, perhaps, the Watergate burglary case that — irony of ironies — drove Roger Stone’s own friend and hero Richard Nixon out of office. Perhaps Obama was even worse than that President. (Also ironically, Obama tried even more mightily than Nixon did to empower international corporations as the coming dictatorial government of the entire world.)

Here is the full key paragraph in the Government’s just-released reply to Stone:

FACTUAL BACKGROUND
By May 2016, the Democratic National Committee (“DNC”) and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (“DCCC”) became aware that their computer systems had been compromised by intrusions, and they hired the cybersecurity company CrowdStrike to identify the extent of the intrusions and mitigate the threat.

On June 14, 2016, the DNC, via CrowdStrike, publicly announced that it had been hacked by Russian government actors. See, Washington Post, “D.N.C. Says Russian Hackers Penetrated Its Files, Including Dossier on Donald Trump”, June 14, 2016, available at https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/us/politics/russian-hackers-dnc-trump.html.

At the direction of the DNC and DCCC’s legal counsel, CrowdStrike prepared three draft reports. 1 Copies of these reports were subsequently produced voluntarily to the government by counsel for the DNC and DCCC. 2 At the time of the voluntary production, counsel for the DNC told the government that the redacted material concerned steps taken to remediate the attack and to harden the DNC and DCCC systems against future attack. According to counsel, no redacted information concerned the attribution of the attack to Russian actors.

It, therefore, seems that if House Democrats initiate impeachment against Trump, he will initiate very serious criminal charges — perhaps even an extraordinary case of treason — against Obama, for concocting Russiagate against him.

Consequently, one may reasonably infer that Pelosi and Trump have agreed that there will not be impeachment proceedings, and that there will also not be prosecution against Obama.

However, if Trump does get impeached, then there will be virtually a civil war between Republicans and Democrats, as both cases proceed.

There is no impeachment by the House that would result in a Republican Senate’s replacement of Trump by Pence: defenestration of Trump. Trump would remain as President.

Meanwhile, the case against Obama would be proceeding full force (because the House had impeached him), and the thorough corruption that rules the Democratic Party would then become exposed to the public.

The formation of a new major U.S. political party could then become likelier than at any time since the Republicans replaced the Whigs in 1860.

However, this time around, the cause wouldn’t be slavery, but instead the fact that, in today’s America, it’s only the billionaires who are in control over both Parties.

In other words: the impetus for a third political Party to become financed by one or more billionaires would be the intolerable stranglehold that corruption — control of the Government by the billionaires — has over our country.

We then would have two major political parties plus a third that would then serve as the kingmaker taking bids from each of the other two in order to determine which one to throw its support to. It would be the tie-breaker.

So, the kingmaker-party would be little more than another party controlled by billionaires. They would make deals to determine which one of the other two will rule the country. American ‘democracy’ wouldn’t be fundamentally affected, because it doesn’t exist anyway, except in our schoolbooks, ‘history’ books, ‘news’ reports, and the public speeches by politicians.

It’s all a fraud. And this is why the U.S. regime wants to get rid of people such as Julian Assange.

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Martin Usher
Martin Usher

Back in those halcyon days of the Cold War it was “freedom and democracy” opposing totalitarian states with “one party rule”. Those of us who were a little more aware of what politics really meant knew that we had a one party rule in the US — it was always like this, we voted for one or other wing of the national capitalist party. We even had laws — actually we still have laws — prohibiting communists from being involved in politics. In that sense we were just a mirror of the Soviet Union; it was a one party state but within that single party there were also numerous factions and opposing groups (and for all I know there were laws prohibiting political action by parties promoting “freedom and democracy”).

These days the fault lines are now really obvious. We still can’t figure out Russia and China’s got us completely confused. Russia is now “just another country”, its a bit like a larger version of Canada with weird writing, but still we can’t drag ourselves away from the Cold War mindset. So obviously the Russians are out to get us, to undermine our democracy and so on, and a lot of people go with the program despite the obvious fact that if anyone’s undermining anyone else then the US pretty much tops all of the lists. China’s causing us headaches because we ignored the fact it was communist (more accurately, “Chinese”) while it was keeping its head down and generating us excess profits but now its competitive we can’t quite fit the North Korean model back over it again — its just too modern, too open and too busy.

As for ‘investigating’ Trump, this is a bit of a minefield. Trump is, first and foremost, a businessman in a line of business that’s notorious for shady dealings, money laundering and the like. Its the sort of business that will attract the attention of the Federal government even if you turn out to be squeaky clean. I think the idea that a President is ‘treasonous’ is a dangerous assertion because what you’re really saying is that if a government decides to investigate a business entity then all that business entity has to do is to get into politics and it can’t be touched because investigating it would be political interference. This shouldn’t be a problem in the US where the civil services is supposed to be apolitical but all the signs are that we are politicizing it (we’ve done it before with loyalty oaths and the like so its worth keeping your guard up).

Solomon Balas
Solomon Balas

Obama had visions of grandeur as a sort of Muslim Communist Messiah. Sought to globalise then control the world through the UN
Plan for Hillary to hold WH till Michelle lets Obama play king

Mucho
Mucho

Very interesting Brendon O Connell mini-doc here concerning many of the players in this article

Jim Scott
Jim Scott

One of the most striking features of the investigation of the “hacking” of the DNC computer is that the DNC opposed the FBI and CIA inspecting their computer and instead using Crowd Strike to investigate the hacking. This enhances the likelihood that the computer was not hacked at all. Surely the CIA could have insisted that they would carry out their own investigation. This would imply that the CIA was itself part of the conspiracy to blame Russian collusion with Trump for Clinton’s loss.
The other aspect of this flawed investigation is that the NSA is tracking all electronic information and could have simply used data they had already collected to prove that the hacking actually took place.
Furthermore they had lots of time to check out that the Christopher Steele dirt files compiled for Clinton was full of fake information. This file was used as a reason to open the inquiry’s. Again this shows that the FBI and the CIA were a willing partner in the Hillary collusion to link Trump to Russian interference.
The third branch of this conspiracy was and is the willingness of the pro Democrat mainstream media to conflate and support the most ridiculous and obvious claims of collusion. This shows how far the fabled US Democracy is long dead and replaced by a system of Deep State control of information and propaganda that has cemented the US conversion from a democracy to a fascist oligarchy.

phree
phree

Wow, what a stretch. It would make a good novel, though

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker

As political philosopher Sheldon Wolin wrote in his book, already more than 15 years ago, that we in the West are living in a system he termed as ‘Inverted Totalitarianism‘. Articles such as this just cement this truth.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle

Meanwhile the Guardian would have you a believe a new dawn beckons once the Prez is black or a woman, or, in a few years time, transgender: yet strangely don’t seem to notice when the US call on their right wing allies to kill Venezuelans or Iranians, or when IDF snipers take out children for protesting about apartheid.

If anyone such as Julian Assange tries to alert the public to terrible crimes committed by state actors the Guardian will of course do all they can to discredit legitimate protests.

inLove with MOD
inLove with MOD

The Guardian is steadily turning into a shopfront for …..

“A document shared online by independent journalist Matt Kennard shows that the chairman of the D-Notice board thanked Johnson for being “instrumental in re-establishing links” between the paper and UK military intelligence after the Guardian had its wrists slapped over the revelations.”

“Another document detailing the minutes of a meeting held in the MoD on May 8, 2014, shows Air Vice-Marshal Andrew Vallance reported that the MoD’s relationship with the Guardian had “continued to strengthen” with Johnson on board. This strengthening was due to “regular dialogues” being held with Guardian journalists, the document says.”

https://www.rt.com/uk/462079-guardian-paul-johnson-mod-links/

Jim Scott
Jim Scott

I don’t think that the UK or Australia where I live have their own secret service or military. They are simply regional branches of the US Deep State. After Julian Assange was rushed through a court case and jailed without time to construct his defence shows that the judiciary are also implicated in the collusion against our right to know what acts of criminality our governments are involved with.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle

There is a clear conflict of interest for Judge Arbuthnot – she is ‘married to Lord James Norwich Arbuthnot, a Conservative peer. Lord Arbuthnot was a Tory MP for 28 years and was chair of the Defence Select Committee between 2005 and 2014. He’s also a member of the advisory board of the Royal United Services Institute for Defence and Security Studies (RUSI). And he is chair of the advisory board of the UK division of multinational defence manufacturer Thales. Lord Arbuthnot is also listed as a senior consultant to SC Security. Company records, however, show that Arbuthnot was a former director of SC Security, along with Lord Carlile and Sir John Scarlett, who remain as active directors.’
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2019/06/17/assange-judge-refuses-to-step-down-despite-evidence-of-intelligence-and-defence-links/

Apparently the judge does not think these relationships will cloud her judgement but then again her main role seems to be to rubberstamp a political verdict that has already been reached ……. in America.

What a fucking scandal the whole thing is.

RealPeter
RealPeter

Harry, it’s obvious that the Arbuthnots are not a conflict of interest, but a CONCORDANCE of interest.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

It would be great if Off- G had a permanently pinned article and space for us to comment on the daily Obsessive Groaniad.

Then we could all see their distortions documented in one place!

Yarkob
Yarkob

Isn’t Roger Stone a particular type of human? I’m not a fan, but the doc was fascinating, he’s doing exactly the right thing with the “discovery” part of the court case; forcing evidence into the light that would have stayed hidden..Appallingly badly played by the DNC’s solicitors if they didn’t see that coming..and he does seem to be rocking a look there with those shades. He’s a big Legalise It fan so ok by me in that regard..not that that stops him from being Roger Stone…

Yarkob
Yarkob

“If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.”

Mark Twain

As exciting as this may sound to those patiently awaiting some form of “justice”, remember, as UreKismet alludes to below; we have been here before. On the edge of some kind of accounting. Groundhog day for those paying any kind of attenti0n (<1% of the population if I am feeling optimistic)

Unless the people behind the people we are talking about are removed, they will simply replace the head of the failing Hydra and replace it with a more “acceptable” face. T’was ever thus.

Far be it from me to ever incite any form of violence, but I’m beginning to agree that, sometimes, the ballot box may not be enough

UreKismet
UreKismet

Incidentally as vital as the subject in this thread is, I reckon this is the site where Matt Kennard’s revelations (see https://twitter.com/DCKennard/status/1138493594728304640 ) vis a vis Guardian deputy editor Paul Johnson on should be given a good airing.

AFAIAC any fishwrap that has a member of senior staff on the board that decides what ‘must’ be censored cannot claim to be in the news business, it is in the propaganda game.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee

We have to ask the question does mankind really want liberty? Are those child-like creatures walking around and staring fixedly into their mobiles fully human? As Orwell noted, ‘it is possible to by selective breeding, to produce a type of homo sapien akin to short-horned cattle.’ Or perhaps like the useless apathetic Elois in H.G.Wells ”Time Machine”.

Jim Scott
Jim Scott

An excellent example of where we are heading Francis Lee. Or perhaps where we are being directed

UreKismet
UreKismet

Perhaps, but I have much more faith in humanity myself. I’m old enough to remember old ‘commies’ describing myself and others as “long haired wastrels more interested in spearing the bearded clam than taking part in revolution”. I accept there was some truth in that description and I also accept that if I visit one of the remote communities I used to assist I will find young people dedicated to “Fortnite” or whatever.

But I will find others of the same generation keenly hunting and gathering; men & women who use their mobiles to hook up with other like minded people in other Yolgnu and balanda communities who are also dedicated to halting the mindless and ultimately futile resource exploitation that if permitted to finish will leave Oz a giant slag heap populated by far too many to feed, let alone shelter.

Brian harry
Brian harry

“If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear”……Joseph Goebbels.

Were he alive today, he may have been referring to the whole of the American government, from the President down, given their propensity to place the interests of Israel ahead of the United States of America, in the name of the almighty dollar.

wardropper
wardropper

The will to fix this insanity is entirely lacking among the general public.
The media, that other “opium of the masses” have done their job better than their manipulators ever dreamed possible.
People are asleep.
And they can’t be bothered to wake up, because it takes effort to wake up.

It’s actually the very same thing that happens when the very rich give their kids everything they want, while they sometimes ignore the basic human things their kids – like all kids – desperately need:
Caring supervision and guidance by good example and encouragement.

The result is the same.
The kids just can’t be bothered to do anything, because they have never HAD to do anything.
They have no practice at it.
Then they grow up, and STILL have no practice at it, because they have got used to demanding that society should allow them to continue staying asleep, while still expecting all the human rights and perks which AWAKE human beings of the past fought long and hard to win for their offspring.
And society has complied, but without any longer making any distinction between deserving and undeserving.
People expect, and people get, and it is those who brought them up who are to blame for the inevitable consequences.

And that’s why the agenda behind western politics has been to accustom us to not needing to think for ourselves, so that we never WILL be able to think for ourselves.
Talking about “agenda” may sound conspiratorial these days, but waking up is becoming such an unaccustomed brain activity that those who want to manipulate us are having a very, very easy time of it.
We are encouraging them, and they are taking our bait as well as the other way round.

Compared with the mixture of vastly different types of people I knew when I was a youngster, today’s generation seems to consist generally of people who are all the same – copies of someone they once revered in a movie or TV series.
The worst of it is that I used to feel I knew, and could relate to pretty well all those different types in the old days.
Now, I feel like an alien observing a very odd species of undifferentiated humanoid being which appears neither to know, nor to have any interest in knowing anything of importance, nor does it have anything which really deserves the name, “self awareness” to its credit.
Instead, today’s self awareness seems to measure itself by how well it fits into a robot’s definition of “human”, and that basically boils down to how useful one is as a cog in the machinery.

For many, especially older people, the point has been reached where one just gives up, although one is thankful at least to have had a memory of human reality.

How I stay cheerful and positive as a person, I sometimes really don’t know, but I do manage to do it nevertheless.
Perhaps having a rich inner life has something to do with it.
I wish everybody had one of those, but our propaganda manufacturers discourage it, because it’s dangerous to them.

Today’s politicians are a menace to us, and to human evolution.
But we would rather be in denial about that, because otherwise we would have to make a fuss.
And how often do our media allow the balanced coverage of intelligent people making a fuss?
No. A horde of football fans making a fuss beyond any self-awareness at all is as far as they take their responsibility to encourage and reflect civil involvement in what’s going on in the world.

Sheesh, what a long, sad comment I have just typed, and I’m not even drinking . . .
I really don’t mean to be depressing, but I just can’t think of an answer at the moment.
The only thing that occurs to me is some sort of complete restart from scratch.
But whose scratch? China’s, Russia’s, Turkey’s, Iran’s, Britain’s, Germany’s?
Who would let us get into a position to decide that anyway?
No one.

I suppose that leaves Nature.
And we have been so ungrateful, abusive and ignorant in our dealings with her, that it is hard to imagine she might think kindly of us as she dishes out the future we deserve.

But this planet, once so full of life, will be here in some shape or form long after we’re gone, and we really ought to be working towards being tolerable inhabitants while we’re here.
After all, we will leave a mark, either way.

We, ourselves, however, should not be tolerating any old damn thing from our so-called representatives, who are actually no more than people who have chosen to control us.
We should especially not be tolerating our stinking politics.
They are certifiably insane.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

Many environmental reports suggest that humankind is like locusts, destroying the earth and thus themselves/ourselves.

Regardless of which findings prophecy which demise comes first and rubs out the basics for our existence – our demise is well deserved. As we acknowledged and kowtowed to American leadership and exceptionality, then allowed to be led by a Bill Clinton, a George W. Bush, and an Obama – we deserve all we get.

‘Leader of the free world’, ‘most powerful man on earth’ – my a5se. I wish I could have done anything against that toxic leadership, but I was blinded.

Gezzah Potts

Three letters for you mate: PEP. Profound, Excellent, Poignant comment, and I feel much the same way. At times its like a surreal dream. Or nightmare if you wish. “Now I feel like an alien observing a very odd species of undifferentiated humanoid”. I try and get comfort; a spiritual connectedness from Nature, and inspiration from Taoist and Buddhist ways of being. Humans have become fully enslaved to digital screens, amongst other many distractions. Sad.

Jean Miller
Jean Miller

One of the best assessments I have read ,describing the malaise of our modern times. We find the only way to navigate with joy in our life now, is to avoid all mainstream media , social media, to live as simply and with as much good health as we can. To adore nature, and appreciate her gifts including our pets and our tiny garden. And transcendental meditation too. Anything else leaves us filled with fear and anxiety, or frustrated that we are so powerless now, despite our small gestures to resist the control and madness.

wardropper
wardropper

Thank you Jean.
As you say, we do what we can, although it is obvious that many of us wish we could do much more.
We may each have our talents and our limitations, but we can also perhaps say, with Goethe, “Him I love who yearns for the impossible”.

Many great people have actually done what was thought to be impossible in their time, and I am sure that great human beings will continue to stretch the boundaries of all sorts of things until the impossible becomes more possible than it used to be . . .

Perhaps that is even a clue to “the meaning of life” . . .?

wardropper
wardropper

Let me just add that I do, like some others here, look in on the mainstream media from time to time, just to assess what I am supposed to think : )
It’s a useful exercise.

JudyJ
JudyJ

As @Gezzah says, ‘PEP’.

Coincidentally, as I was walking my two dogs yesterday – in the peace and solitude I so appreciate – I was reflecting on the current state of affairs in so-called ‘developed’ society and the world as a whole. I am in my years of upper middle age and find it soul destroying to encounter young zombified people with the, seemingly, ubiquitous earphones (what are they all listening to??) and no awareness of people or the environment around them; to watch teenagers trashing the new playground opposite my house with litter and roadwork barriers dragged by them from nearby roads (why?); to visit green spaces during school holidays and find them littered with aluminium cans, plastic bottles, sandwich wrappers and empty crisp packets (again, why?) which I do my best to clear up; to live in a world in which it is apparent that anyone under 40 lives in a bubble existence and appears not to have had any formal education or learnt anything from life experiences and observations, or rarely seems to be employed in a constructive, sustainable job offering good prospects for their futures; to hear some of my own friends or family obsessively talk about the latest gadget, acquired simply because they’d seen it on some banal advertisement for the brain dead; to have detached inhuman voices on computers/robots telling us what shopping we need and to remember to put the bins out and to be expected to regard this as progress; to see and read of man’s generic inhumanity to and disregard for other living species and the environment; to attempt to draw acquaintances into discussions about current affairs only to be met with blank, uninterested stares etc etc. And I haven’t even started on the seemingly incorrigible state of politics, international relations and media…

…and, you know what, it struck me that it really is probably inevitable, but paradoxically beneficial, that the human race should eventually be responsible for its own demise so that the rest of the universe can get on undisturbed with business as usual at a higher moral level. Some might call it a disaster. I see it positively as desirable evolution. Some might say I shouldn’t be so defeatist but it was actually quite a liberating thought.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker

Very thoughtful, well put.

wardropper
wardropper

Well, PEP to you too, Judy (and Gezzah), and thank you both for your compassionate confirmation that we are on the same page.
Always looking for the light at the end of the tunnel, I am reminded that we shouldn’t forget that there are very compelling philosophic and spiritual avenues to explore, even if some of them enter territory metaphysical enough to scare off some people, and there is definitely hope to be found in some of them – even if some of their methods and conclusions can seem very exotic to many of us who were conventionally educated.
Some of them also require a lifetime’s study to fit their ideas into a relevant perspective for modern humanity.
After all, for decades it has been fashionable to laugh at anything which smacks of religion, spirit, divine purpose, or soul, but when we look at where the dullness of utter materialism has got us, it really doesn’t seem so very smart to laugh any longer.
I won’t go any further on the subject of “the spirit” here, but, as @Gezzah indicates, great spiritual teachers of the past, and no less Nature herself, have stunning resources of information and inspiration for us, once we realize how much we need them.
I always turn to those, and come here, of course, after listening to what passes for “the news” today.

Ramdan
Ramdan

New’ ideas regarding values and wealth have been with us for a long time: look in the major spiritual traditions.
And I’m refering to Spiritual traditions NOT religions which have all (to a greater or lesser extent) been corrupted and distorted hence, you have the ‘Holy’ wars done in the name of a guy (Christ) that never ever talk about going to war or violence as means to promote or protect his teachings. Or the manslaughter of Rohingyas by so called “Buddhist monks”, where Buddha most known teachings opens saying

“Hatreds never cease through hatred in this world; through love alone they cease. This is an eternal law.”

Guided by these spiritual teachings, money has no value, nor does any other material thing beyond what is necessary for living, but definitely not as means to exert power or any other vain pursuit.
Major spiritual teachers (Buddha, Christ, Lao-Tsé) taught that a meaningful and still generous, compasionate life is possible even if you don’t go as far as the full teachings (celibacy, etc.) but material possessions are definitely not at the core of any of them (with the possible exception of Judaism, at least on its Zionism version -Isaiah 61:6, Deuteronomy 28:1).

But whether we find new ideas on spiritual traditions or make up totally new ones, fact is that none of the predominant existing paradigms will lead us out of current situation nor will they ever ensure sustainable, peaceful survival of the species and the planet.
You can not put new wine into old bottles.

wardropper
wardropper

I certainly agree with much of what you say, Ramdan, and you point to many valid details regarding man’s search for meaning in the universe.
Thank you for those references.

On a lighter note, perhaps you can’t put new wine into old bottles, but old wine can definitely reveal amazing and unsuspected qualities . . .

As you point out, the past is not all bad news, and it is the corrupt interpretation of what Christ and Buddha taught which has led us on our current path of devotion to money and power.

I often wonder what most of the people who go to Church on a Sunday are actually thinking while they sit there. Things are not the same as they were a couple of thousand years ago.
To my mind, religious tradition and culture have their place, even now, but modern man will be taking retrograde evolutionary steps if he lets tradition do his thinking for him.

Ramdan
Ramdan

That’s why I talk of ‘spiritual traditions’ and not of religions. Religions are mostly regarded as outdated or out of touch, mostly based on externalities and have become a ‘ritual’, the travesty of spirituality (“Ritual is the husk of true faith, the beginning of chaos.” Lao Tzu).
Spiritual teachings are about inner truths, and those are atemporal.

..current state of affairs is just the result of years and years of accumulation….and the way you and many more feel is actually good, but Krishnamurthy puts it better:

“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

On a lighter note’, take a look at this movie (Baraka-1992)…very interesting, amazing photograph and music…. wordless..but an image is worth thousand words…

https://youtu.be/heJmw-Dsp0A

wardropper
wardropper

Thanks for the link, Ramdan,
That’s a beautiful thing to watch.

I agree with all you say, and I often use that Krishnamurti quote myself!

My personal battle with the existence I find myself in is the question of building bridges between what the spirit has taught me (the inner truths you speak of) and what my fellow human beings seem to be looking for, but without the benefit of the guidance I have been fortunate enough to have in my life.

The world we live in no longer experiences the connection with spirit which was obviously normal in ancient times, and people have now accustomed themselves to think that their addiction to materialism will do perfectly well instead.
Although that saddens me, I cannot bring myself just to say, “Well, lucky me, to have found enlightenment; pity about everybody else . . .”

I have been a performing musician and teacher all my working life, so I have often experienced the joy of successfully passing on ideas and inspirations which strike a chord in a student, but I also care about the fate of my species in general philosophic and moral terms, and it is there that I really feel powerless to share what I know.

Perhaps I am just too impatient – after all, eternity is a long time – and what must happen will happen in due course, but I still cannot shake the feeling that people who know something of “the spirit” have a duty while we are here on Earth to use that knowledge to make things better for our fellow people.

No small task, of course, but we do what we can.

Ramdan
Ramdan

Inpatient? Maybe, but you are not alone. Patience is a virtue. This is something we need to learn, to cultivate. How do we let go of the need to change anything. This doesn’t mean not to care but only to do what you have to do, what you feel you have to do not because of a need to change anything but just because it has to be done.

Others may find the way, perhaps with our help, but remember, we can only point the way. Each one, have to strive his/herself.
Powerless? Not really.
Sometimes is just that we want more of what we can do, or that what we do feels like not much. Humility, that’s another virtue. As you so cleverly said, we do what we can.
Powerless? Not really:

“If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito.” ―
The Dalai Lama.

Peace be with you.
Mettā.

wardropper
wardropper

Thank you again.
Mettā

Gezzah Potts

Much appreciate your meaningful comments here also Ramdan, and yes, seen Baraka several times. No words needed to describe it – just take it in.

The Thinker
The Thinker

Hi Judy, I agree with your sentiments and the soul destroying mindlessness that seems inescapable around us. But, I can also say I have seen children taking part in litter picks, caring about the environment, championing projects and positively engage in ways to make communities and our environments better for all.

When we see the negative aspects of society constantly and how the new generations have embraced the throw away culture with apparent gumption and the need to own those new gadgets to keep up (in the fear they will fall behind with tech culture and norms) I can also see a tipping point where they turn away from such technologies as they realise that it isolates them from the real world and robs them of vital social spaces, places to be ‘off-line’ and engage the brain in meaningful discourse.

There will always be elements of society which fall outside those parameters, there always was. It is just magnified as we all struggle to find where we fit in this present Overton window, which is fluid and vastly interchangeable.

Don’t lose hope that the younger generations are not lost to the digital enlightenment/ and control mechanisms, they have never known anything else, but they too are waking up and turning away, and I speak as a person in this field.

JudyJ
JudyJ

Thanks, Thinker. It sounds as though you’re experience and knowledge gives you an advantage over my comparatively limited observations of ‘the youth’ of today. It would be nice to think that my generalised assessment is indeed misguided and not representative of the majority of younger people. I certainly wouldn’t mind admitting I am wrong if this is the case!

JudyJ
JudyJ

Correction: ‘Your’ not ‘you’re’ of course!

mark
mark

The planet would get on just fine without us. The bees are far more important in the general scheme of things.

wardropper
wardropper

That’s quite true in a way, Mark, but our burdensome gift of consciousness and self-awareness, which bees do not have, comes, at least to my mind, with a heavy dollop of responsibility.
As a musician, I can appreciate, for example, what god-like achievements Beethoven, Bach and Mozart were capable of, and while I love what bee culture achieves in its own way, not one single bee can bestow such gifts upon mankind. A plus in one area seems to mirror a minus in another, assuming we are mostly glad that we are not bees.
We really have to learn to recognize, love, and encourage our future Beethovens, because the composers I mentioned took upon themselves that responsibility at no small cost.
What they did was go far beyond the requirements of their “job description”, in order to leave us a lasting treasure, but at the moment we treat them as if they had nothing more to offer than Mick Jagger or Madonna, bless their hearts.

Beethoven today would not be noticed, and his lack of social skills would probably have seen his generous outpouring of colossal gifts for his fellow man to enjoy entirely submerged through misunderstanding, always assuming he was lucky enough to escape electric shock treatment for some crackpot diagnosis of his “disorder”. . .

That said, I still have days when I come to the same conclusion as you : )

Ramdan
Ramdan

Young people might seem oblivious to the whole world.They, however, are even worst than older people. Older people at least had time to engage and sort of develop to certain extent social habilities and relations, outside living. Millennials and Z guys have grown fully entangled within a ‘virtual world’. The result is deep, unprocessed suffering.
Another symptom of a growing disease.

https://www.rt.com/news/462211-millennials-suicide-gen-z-economy/

Jim Scott
Jim Scott

I don’t think that at all. My experience is that many of the young people I know are attending protests and are involved in consstructive community projects. Though there are many who are living hedonistic consumptive lives. I think that it has always been so. It’s almost as though we have two separate species inhabiting the planet.

Ramdan
Ramdan

As with everything else, nothing is black or white.
To put it poetically: In this treacherous world nothing is truth nor lies. It all depends on the color of the glasses through which your looking.
More than two species I would say is two different perspectives, different levels of inner wisdom.
Some look at life through the ‘Self’ prism and others look at it through the No-self.

http://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00124/full

The Thinker
The Thinker

WarDropper – I can only add that I understand where you are coming from and you are not alone in your thoughts and musings.

My ‘third’ eye as I call it opened about a decade ago and I never viewed the world the same again.

In some ways, I envy those whose are happily bumbling along within the system as they seem to just get on with life. I do that too, but with an eye that deconstructs and reconstructs the things I am shown, when my gut instinct tells me to question it. That gut instinct (almost a survival tool) in our biology has been slowly stripped out of people and they can no longer question or cast a critical eye over what they are told is the way of the world and this is how you must comply. (Think China Social credit system)

You talk about losing the ‘ability to think for ourselves’ my other half was admiring self parking cars the other day, and I cynically said, well I won’t use that feature, I want to park my car myself, using my co-ordinated body and brain functions, so they keep working as long as possible! The more we accept tech (although admittedly some of it is good and positive) but the less we use individual thought and acceptance of that sort of tech, the less the mind is active, alert and decision making is our own.

Yes, that Alice through the looking glass feeling of the inverted world we see before us can be difficult to make sense of, I as you have stated, stay cheerful in the face of it all and try to do and be a good person every day and help others where I am able, and that is my legacy as an individual and collective member of the Human Race. I went from not saying a lot to proper deep 🙂 regards to you TT

wardropper
wardropper

Thank you so much, TT.
I’m beginning to think there are a surprising number of enlightened thinkers here at offG, whether just by coincidence, or driven here by the failure of almost everything else . . . who knows?

But most reassuring.

Like the body, the soul requires nourishment, and when I recall what I once read about the Tibetan monks believing that there were people around us who look human, but are not, I feel I have to consider the opposite proposition too: that there are people around us who are “morally” more evolved than the average person. And so, just as we must avoid the former like the plague, we must also seek the latter for all we’re worth and see if we can’t learn from them something of why we are here on this Earth.

I am convinced that many people consciously, or unconsciously, really want to be able to put themselves into a credible picture on that score.

I wonder if Mike Pompeo ever has thoughts like that . . .

Starac
Starac

W,
Good observations. And, ha ha ha. Last sentence was funny.

The Thinker
The Thinker

Hello WD thank you for your response, I pondered it on the bus to work today, observing little acts of kindness along the way. A man who was very immobile with a walker could not get off the bus, all the passengers who were incoming patiently helped him alight safely before getting on and continuing their travels.

A Lady knelt down talking to a homeless person, having come out of the supermarket, giving him a sandwich and drink. A bloke asking for directions and a couple animatedly showing him the way. Just small acts, but people’s instinctive need to help as others hurried along in the throng.

It is rather whimsical, but I think you will understand what I mean about human kindness and how it changes people in small ways. A few months ago I was given a little tool to remind me about mindfulness and the way we gravitate to other like minded souls. (A bit like us all here)

It consisted of a little pouch of positive affirmations on tiny bits of paper (like the size of a fortune cookie) it said things like ‘today, say hello to a stranger’ or ‘make that call, ring a loved one today’ or ‘if someone is lonely, try to make time for them’ or ‘pick up some litter’. Just little things to help us think about our everyday being that little bit kinder.

It sat in my bag as I kind of already practise these things in my everyday. Fast forward, a postman popped into my office and asked if I could help him. He had written a small note of thanks to a couple of residents near my office and asked me if I could help locate them. He wanted to thank them for their kindness the week before. It was his first week on the job and could not get into the blocks to deliver the mail and was frantic it be frowned upon by his boss. These residents listened to his plight, and opened each block for him to be able to carry out his job.

Fortunately I was able to help as I knew them and said I would make sure the note would get to the right place. The next week he popped in and I dutifully told him they were happy to have helped and it was kind of him to take the time. Suddenly it dawned on me and I said you are a pay it forward kind of guy! I have something for you and gave him the affirmation pouch.

He was really touched and said, if there were more people like you and I the world would be so different and said he would do one everyday and then pass the pouch on to someone else. Hopefully it is still doing the rounds.

As I say, I know it’s whimsical, and apologies for being quite off topic! But it made me think of your comment and looking for those people amongst us, who all see the little acts of hope, love and compassion. When the ying and yang are wildly out of kilter, we have to cut through the negatives and see all the positives going on around us every Day.

wardropper
wardropper

One learns a lot here, TT.
Thanks again!

Gezzah Potts

Very good, however am still waiting for Mr Hopey Changey pyscho man to appear in court at The Hague for war crimes, mass murder, and the droning of wedding parties, funeral possessions and minors. All in the name of spreading ‘freedom and democracy’ of course. Guess I’ll be waiting until the next Ice Age for that to happen. Like any blood drenched monster from the West ever faces war crimes anyway. How much is Tony Blair now worth? And I hear Obama is raking in a few dollars on the Wall Street speaking circuit. Probably for services rendered.

Brian harry
Brian harry

Regret1bly, the USA is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court(neither is Israel) Lucky about that huh?

Gezzah Potts

Hmmm, I forgot about that Brian, thanx for reminder.

Brian harry
Brian harry

Keeping up with everything is impossible these days….

mark
mark

Our Tony is worth well north of £100 million.
He has 7 huge mansions (different one to sleep in each night of the week is a must) and a portfolio of over 60 properties. All guarded at public expense. Nothing too good for our Tone.
All well deserved of course – think what a splendid job he did of bringing peace to the Middle East.

Gezzah Potts

Crime pays then? Wonder how many times he’s been to confession to ‘absolve his sins’. Can this world get any more surreal when you have industrial scale mass murderers raking in millions and living in luxurious mansions and not facing any justice for their many crimes while whistleblowers get thrown in jail, and people merely standing on a street holding up signs (Free Julian Assange) have half a dozen cops descend on them and get arrested also. And much of the ‘freedom loving’ world continues remaining fast asleep. Or just look the other way and pretend they see nothing.

mark
mark

Well, he’s Save The Children’s “Humanitarian Of The Year.”
Sort of like appointing Adolf Hitler as your goodwill ambassador to Israel.
Or appointing Saudi Arabia chairman of the UN Human Rights and Women’s Rights Committees.

UreKismet
UreKismet

If only . . . . of course the scenario of mexican standoff or circular firing squad between rethugs and dems which the writer envisages will never come to pass as the wise heads (for wise read cynically opportunistic) of each half of the american empire party will get together and cut a deal as they always do when a potential mutually destructive issue arises.

The last major one I can recall occurred during prez 2000 when George ‘the shrub’ Bush and Al ‘Fibber’ Gore caught each other stuffing ballot boxes, voting the dead and denying African Americans the right to vote.

As awful as it was that the shrub won, it is doubtful things would have been much different if The Fibber’ had possessed sufficient nous to ensure ‘Cigar Bill’ stymied the Bush family’s Florida machinations (remember brother Jeb was Florida governor) so if Gore had won the ‘official’ count on polling day and/or the later supremes decision because Gore’s patrician instincts and limited intellect were pretty much a mirror of Shrub Bush and Joe Lieberman was a similar reflection (in terms of warmongering) of R ‘the Dick’ Cheney.

Iraq would still have been invaded using the 911 pretext and 1,000,000 plus Iraqis would still have been butchered. If anyone doubts that I suggest they remember how Cigar Bill whacked sanctions on Iraq (with Al’s “full support”) that killed at least half a million Iraqi infants, the sanctions mortality was conceded and dismissed by then secretary of state Madeline Albright as “collateral damage that you get”.

Gore’s naive incompetence came to the fore when he first of all backed a full review of the Florida ballot, then when the rethug half of the american empire party quietly informed him two can play the “look, there’s a ballot box stuffer” game, he backed right off with mealy mouthed statements about “not questioning the integrity of America’s great democracy”.

Nobody seemed to mind that Cynthia McKinney, 2000’s only honest congressperson, was rewarded for her resistance to the shrub’s investiture, later, when she was fitted up by Capitol police for the crime of being a black congressperson. An injustice which gave the dem crooks justification for ‘wasserman-schultzing’ McKinney’s primary.

Then of course there was the “Ralph screwed us” nonsense put about by dems over the Nader candidacy which like the current “it was the russkies cost us” provided the corporate dems with an excuse for sticking with their unpopular “screw decent americans, help rich americans” policy platform.

I’m sorry to say it but I cannot envisage any circumstance where anyone able and willing to change US domestic or foreign policy in favour of normal human beings could win election as prez – or even run for prez.

T

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum

When you lay down with Satan.
You get up a PSYCHO.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

Today’s President is tomorrow’s postage stamp.

mark
mark

Republicans and Democrats in the US.
Tories and Labour in the UK.
Just two cheeks of the same arse.
Two rattlesnakes fighting in a pit.
Two scorpions fighting in a bottle.
Who cares? What difference does it make to anyone but them?
Arrogant, corrupt, venal, delusional, ignorant, degenerate low life.

Brian harry
Brian harry

“Two cheeks of the same arse”……Brilliant!

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

They told us soooo often that the one party-state was despiccable. They brought us the two-party-state and you are not content?

SharonM
SharonM

The crimes of the U.S. government are sooooo vast that I just can’t get past a simple, “uh huh”, after reading this article. Treason in this regime? This regime. The one that has been slaughtering innocent masses all around the world for decades. All of it freely voted for by over half the eligible voters. My country has half of it’s voters voting for two war parties. One war party leader is undermined by another war party leader. Okay? I can’t even fake concern.

axisofoil
axisofoil

“It’s all a fraud”……..says is all.