Guardian Attacks Epstein “Conspiracy Theories”
The mainstream narrative is shaping up – a story of suicide, neglect and tragic victims
Kit Knightly
In two different opinion pieces The Guardian has made its position on the alleged death of Jeffrey Epstein clear – he “probably” committed suicide.
The first, titled Epstein conspiracy theories are farfetched – but can you blame people?, takes the position that although “conspiracy theories” about Epstein’s apparent suicide are “understandable”, there’s no evidence to support them.
Rather, the author endorses the slowly coalescing official narrative. Namely that of complete, systemic incompetence:
The official explanation for Epstein’s death comes down to rank incompetence. And it’s probably true.
A short-sighted attitude to take, which totally ignores a cardinal rule when dealing with state agencies: They will only admit to incompetence if the truth is worse.
The author also attempts to undermine the “conspiracy theories” by pointing out that Epstein was a potential threat to important figures on both sides of the political divide:
Online, conspiracy theories now abound. Observers suggest Epstein was killed by one of the men who may have been implicated in his crimes – maybe Bill Clinton, according to the fringe right, or maybe Donald Trump, according to the fringe left.
An argument rather akin to saying “he can’t possibly have been murdered, because there were too many people who wanted him dead. There are SO MANY plausible suspects, that the only reasonable explanation is that…none of them did it.”
(Also, note the word “fringe”, a manipulative use of language designed to discredit an idea without engaging with it rationally)
However, this article – although laced through with traditional mainstream rhetoric about “conspiracy theories” – at least leaves them room to exist. The Guardian’s other Epstein piece is rather less understanding:
Epstein’s death is a victory for misogyny: it denies accusers the justice they deserve
Blares the headline (further evidence that very few people at the Guardian seem to know what “misogyny” really means), before continuing by taking aim at conspiracy theories several times in the text.
Firstly, in an almost word-for-word quote from the previous column:
Commentators on the right speculated that he had been murdered by powerful liberals; those on the left speculated that he had been murdered by powerful conservatives. These theories were not responses to evidence, of which there is little
And then later claiming conspiracy theories not only “factually wrong” (something no one can know at this stage)…
The speculations may well be factually wrong – criminal justice experts have pointed out that inmate suicides are common, and that those detained in federal jails often face startling neglect
…but also attempting to Mrs Lovejoy the public by claiming “conspiracy theories” are actually harmful:
the positing of these conspiracy theories is unhelpful, distracting from the important injustice that has been done to Epstein’s victims.
Declaring seeking the truth to be somehow unfair to the victims is a classic trope, deployed most famously against 9/11 Truthers, but common after many such incidents.
There’s also this sentence…
The conspiracy theorists also risk undermining efforts to bring Epstein’s co-conspirators to account: their suggestions that the financier was killed to cover up the rapes and assaults of powerful men who would rather he be shut up could lend suspicion to anyone pointing out the breadth of his alleged pedophilia ring, giving those who want continued investigations of men such as Dershowitz, Pritzker and Dubin the aura of a maniac in a tinfoil hat.
Which, I’ll be honest, I simply don’t understand.
I think she’s arguing that “conspiracy theorists” talking about “conspiracy theories” might discredit the very real possibility there was an actual conspiracy.
If that’s what she means – because I honestly do not understand the words – well, that’s obviously just crazy. You can’t argue we shouldn’t talk about conspiracy theories, just in case there’s a conspiracy fact.
That’s the attitude of a person so brainwashed by the idea that “conspiracy theorist = crazy person” that they can no longer think in a straight line. Total cognitive dissonance.
The articles are different in tone, but they are united in purpose, and they each hit the same three key points:
- Epstein “probably” killed himself. After all, inmates commit suicide all the time.
- Conspiracy theories might look reasonable, but they are factually incorrect and morally harmful.
- The real tragedy here is the poor victims who will go unavenged. We should all focus on that, not investigating the potential murder.
All this serves to demonstrate – for about the millionth time – the entire purpose of outrage culture and identity politics. Fear of being offensive used to control a conversation and dictate narrative: Don’t talk about Epstein being murdered, don’t even think about it. If you do, you’re a misogynist.
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“Alleged death”? That’s only if one supposes that he’s not dead. I know there’s a line of opinion claiming that he was whisked away to the zionist entity, but there’s only one person needing to identify him there to sink the relocation effort. He is and was far safer dead.
Good to see the 77th brigade are here! People come here spouting generally Lefty thins then when the big stories come they show their true hand of cards! Lundiel,Bonney and antonym are 3 who would not surprise me if they’re trolls for the 77th brigade
If they’re the best 77 Bde can come up with, maybe they should put them in charge of the latrines.
For information about Moira Donegan, the author of the second Guardian piece, look at the Wikipedia entry on “Shitty Media Men”.
This is like ‘Murder on the Orient Express’.
All the guys fearing exposure, all chipped in to get Epstein.
No CCTV?! Another ex-inmate says sheets made of paper-strength,
Ceilings 8 foot up, no attach points…
And Assange is next…
OK, But what about incompetence? This is the US prison system. It would be mad to assume they werent totally underfunded aqnd incompetent. I don’t doubt a cover up, but I doubt the conspiracy. Everyone knows the prison system in the US isnt fit for purpose, there are movies and books galore about it. The prison system is one massive conspiracy to destroy men! Epstein is no differnt, hes just rich and famous, and he could have exposede people. Sending him to a shitty prison where people kill themselves isnt a conspiracy, it would be a conspriacy NOT to!
spot on. and one cannot have a conspiracy theory. it is an oxymoron. it is either a conspiracy or a theory i.e. hypothetical. the guardian should stop spouting this ninsense.
Maybe they’ll give him Epstein’s old cell.
Admin. I made a General statement about Hebrews “Seeming” to have a bent towards paedophilia, and have been denied to right of reply. I did not make a “SWEEPING WHOLESALE DENUNCIATION” of an Ethnic group. I was commenting about the Epstein case which has opened a very nasty story about this guy and his ability to provide Many “Rich and Famous” elites to access Child sex, on a large scale.
You opened the discussion, and I made a general comment, not only about Paedophilia, but on the ability of this particular group to get away with virtual impunity of widespread child abuse.
What is wrong with that???
If you can’t see that a “general statement” suggesting “Hebrews” “seem” to “have a bent toward pedophilia” is wildly racist we can’t help you. But don’t claim you were denied a right to reply when here you are replying.
We would appreciate if this discussion ended here tho. It’s not helpful or informative for anyone else.
“SEEM”
It’s a well known fact if you add the word ‘seem’ to a piece of racial stereotyping that makes it not racist. Try it.
‘Black people SEEM to be more inclined to steal televisions’.
‘Russians SEEM to be drunk most of the time’
‘Native Americans SEEM to be slackass wasters’
Yup, not racist at all.
I don’t know what makes me sadder for you. the racism you can’t see or the stupidity everyone else can.
Because it’s true, you stupid goy! The truth is anti semitic!! Can’t you understand that?
Let the Talmud explain it to you.
“A baby girl may be enjoyed by a Jew if she is less than three years old, it is nothing, and akin to a finger being poked in her eye.”
“Sexual relations with a boy cannot occur if the child is less than 9 years old.”
Hope that clears it up, goy.
I’m guessing that you made that ‘attack’ just to show that “anti-Goy-ism” is perfectly acceptable, but criticism of Semites is ‘Verboten’…….Thanks for your support….
Google Search Haaretz. “Israel became a haven for suspected paedophiles”
PLEASE.. provide the link.
https://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/.premium-there-s-a-hole-in-the-system-israel-became-a-haven-for-jewish-sex-offenders-1.7070290
https://www.timesofisrael.com/diaspora-pedophiles-increasingly-use-israel-as-a-haven-activists-charge/
This doesn’t mean that ”Hebrews have a particular bent to paedophilia” but that ‘some’ Hebrews have been outed and prosecuted. Just as thousands of Catholic priests have been outed, and NOT prosecuted……
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/08/11/us/11reuters-people-jeffrey-epstein-nyt.html
Note how the Times quoted the medical examiner as being “confident” it was a suicide in its header. But that is not what she said nor is it remotely what she says now. Wtf is going on there. The Times has been unseemly in their haste to pronounce this a suicide, and to repeat it over and over, first within 3 hours of his being found. But how did they know and why were they so cocksure?
After Epstein’s death, Ghislaine Maxwell was spotted in an L.A. burger joint reading “The Book of Honor : The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives“, a book depicting various “heroic martyrs” that worked and died in service of the CIA. Makes you wonder if that’s how Maxwell saw Epstein, considering she had more intimate knowledge about his motives than the general public.
I had a look at the reviews and this one caught my eye:
Could have been written by our own WHB. Seriously though, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Epstein and Maxwell worked for the CIA as well as themselves.
So the first public appearance of the alleged mossad connected grooming madam is reading a book about being a CIA agent risking death. LOL
Pimping is a dangerous business i heard. Double LOL
I used to have great respect for The Guardian, mainly because I tended to learn MORE from the readers comments, than the articles. Sadly, now the “No comments allowed” policy has reduce it to the ‘status’ of NewsCorp(if that is possible).
The Elites who control the Western MSM couldn’t care less what I think, and will continue to dish up TRASH that would even make Joseph Goebbels blush with embarrassment, because there are enough young, gullible people around who haven’t worked out yet, how this World really works.
The Guardian comments under Steve Bell’s cartoon are telling overnight! The ‘Guardian Picks’ are not the top voted.
The 77th appeared to have abandoned attack there until this morning, there were only Tory/NuLabInc types there. Most Lib types seem to have been shocked by Swinson and the recent turncoat arriviste MP’s into their ranks and have woken up to being sold a pig in a poke by the LibDem leadership AGAIN!
The ‘coup’ as a wildebeast … sorry, GNU, under the guidance of Anyone But Corbyn, is faltering.
The most picks, the highest votes and one of the first to comment on the cartoon thread always VB used to be by a man called fishgirl23. He writes sweary lists of the failings of Tory politicians gleaned from the Graun and other MSM outlets and people reply with comments like “I love you fishgirl23”, “You should stand as an MP”, “You should be a journalist”, “You should write a book” etc. He was a Corbyn follower then became a remain supporter, I imagine he’s tuning in to a Swinson fan now, but only if Bell/Rowson and his followers do first.
I used to have great respect for Off Guardian, because all commenters were welcomed… However it appears that there is a Gremlin in the works, which allows votes to be registered against readers who have NOT voted…
Plus the Admin keeps sticking his oar in, and deciding how far people can go?
Without even noticing that we the readers will moderate the people who want to be idiots.
When what Admin should be doing is blocking the trolls. IMHO. For what it is worth?
The question I would like answering is WHO is the Admin?
Your hostile harassing tone is inappropriate. The names of both admins are available on the front page.
Hello. This is Sophie.
We have already patiently and politely explained to you NUMEROUS TIMES how the votes work. They are not broken, there is no malfeasance.Please try to comprehend this and move on.
We intervene as necessary to keep the conversations functional. We don’t need your permission or approval to do so. If you think you can find a less censored site anywhere else please feel free to try. You won’t succeed, and if you are as hostile to the admins on other sites as you are here you will probably be banned.
Thanks for making my (volunteer) working day just a little longer and more unpleasant.
Trying for a third time as I have replied on two occasions using the reply button and my comments are visible for a moment and then gone.
@Maggie queried if there was any possible connections between the Awan’s and JE
I saw this interview with Rosiat Link below (I have not read the book as yet) – and it’s suggested that the common denominator is blackmail. I wonder, when the Awan’s stole all the data at Congress and of various officials and continued to spy on them even after they had fled the Country.
If Pakistani Intel or Awan went through the tons of Data they might have found connections with Epstein on individuals, perhaps also Blackmail material that he already had over them. Not only would they know who JE was blackmailing and with what, now possibly Pakistani Intel also have it?
Some people out there have a lot of concerning info on a lot of very concerned people !
https://m.theepochtimes.com/what-the-jeffrey-epstein-imran-awan-jackson-cosko-scandals-might-have-in-common-luke-rosiak_3004594.html
Epstein is the product of his society and his times, like Trump, Clinton, Blair, and countless others of their ilk.
You have to expect very sick, diseased societies, to vomit up people like Epstein, Clinton and Trump.
Epstein, Trump, Clinton and their kind, are like poisonous maggots feeding off a corpse in an advanced state of decay.
He was only providing a service just as people have always provided for the rich and famous. All the talk is about him (evil paedo) and ‘victims’ who were neither victims nor children.
I should have added, those who profited from this enterprise have escaped censure. Epstein is the dead evil paedo, in a way that Michael Jackson never was, the “victims” will get compensated again for services they rendered willingly and the guilty can hide behind privacy.
14 year olds. Like the willing servants of the Rotherham grooming gangs.
They were well paid for their services with chips, booze and drugs.
You’re in a small minority on this one lundiel. I suppose you also approve of Dershowitz’s efforts to get the legal age of consent lowered. You know, the same one who the non-victims as you see them, say they were ordered to have sex with him.
Check out this link. https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/596140/
When you are gainsaid by the Atlantic, it is time to rethink your position, morally and legally.
And don’t apply for any babysitting posts. They don’t come any more vulnerable than the runaways from broken homes that Maxwell procured in shopping malls.
Oh come on. the pair of you sound like outraged tabloid journalists shaking an angry stick at a rabid dog. I just want to add a bit of reality to the undiluted rage at procurers. And I speak as a woman who went through the care system, was adopted and ran away at 14. Possibly I was abused, possibly I also took what advantage I could get in difficult circumstances.
I was merely making the point that those who should be in the dock never are.
Lundiel, Epstein is just the white, educated, rich version of the Asian grooming gangs in the UK. There is no difference, a 14 year old is a child, what happened was child abuse.
All I can say is, I never felt like a child at 14 and I certainly felt like an adult at 17. I don’t condone lowering the age of consent. However, we treat teenagers as adults/children depending on what we want from them.
Our extreme anger over the Asian grooming gangs is weakened/politicised by our silence over the same thing happening to girls in some street gangs. We are disgusted by the thought of Asian men, in particular, abusing our children is why I never jumped on that political bandwagon. An abuser is an abuser.
Lundiel, I think you are wrong, because the abuse by the Pakistani grooming gangs was/is on a massive scale, and if it was carried out by white, English men I would be just as enraged – but it isn’t.
I am married to an Asian and have Asian relations.
You don’t think it happens to girls in street gangs? It does and rap music made it acceptable behaviour for a while. However, I think that Pakistani culture has led to the abuse of white girls and that it’s more of a problem than the abuse young women suffer at the hands of white/afro Carribbean/African/East European gangs. But this thread isn’t about that and I shouldn’t have to face interrogation about my political Stance on cultural issues because I commented that the guilty always escape censure in these matters.
Asian grooming gangs: sounds like Korean dog owner clubs. Stop hiding the true culprits of this unfathomable crime “British”-Pakistani Muslims
or all Asians (>4,5 billion) will start calling will start calling Nazis European sports clubs.
I would agree that British Pakistani Muslims is more accurate, but I would like to drop the “British” part, because they hate us, they hate our religion or more probably our lack of it, they target young British girls because they regard them as “Kaffirs”, they make no effort to integrate into British society.
Sorry to hear of your experience. You must be resilient and your comments about who gets the stick ring true. Epstein was in the dock and his customers got him off. That’s why this case is a type of watershed. He doesn’t need protection from you on several levels.
The following British newspapers consider it a possibility.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-safe-haven-paedophiles-jerusalem-sex-abuse-jewish-community-watch-a7445246.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/destination-israel-for-sex-slaves-1147678.html
Even a popular jewish newspapers thinks there may be a problem.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-there-s-a-hole-in-the-system-israel-became-a-haven-for-jewish-sex-offenders-1.7070290
Maybe they can find polanski there.
There is a strong element of paedophilia in the Talmud, though of course the same applies to Islam. And all these religions seem obsessed with people’s naughty bits.
“A baby girl may be enjoyed by a Jew if she is less than 3 years old. It is nothing, and akin to a finger being poked in her eye.”
“Sexual relations with a boy cannot occur if the child is less than 9 years old.”
Mohammed married a 9 year old.
If my beloved brother dies,it’s strictly illegal for me to assist his widow and my nieces.Unless I marry my sister-in-law.And if they’re in distress ( at all ) I do this without shame! —just sayin’ ’cause I’m not an expert on the Life of The Prophet,so,I’m just sayin’
Mark. That is GROSS, but, I’m not attacking you. I believe it…..There seems to be a real “bent” towards paedophilia amongst “Hebrews”…..I have no idea about Muslims…….
You are claiming Jews are more prone to pedophilia than non-Jews, based on an unsourced quote from a self-confessed racist.
You, Mark and Tony are a wholesome trio for sure.
“SEEMS”
So making sweeping wholesale denunciations of an ethnic group is rendered non-racist by adding the word ‘seems’?
The mental gymnastics of the self-deluding racist are breathtaking.
In medieval Europe female children were regularly married off to adult males. The age of consent in Spain was 13 until six years ago. Underage girls were permitted to marry in several US states until recently. As is the case in France. Pedophilia is an ongoing issue in the Catholic Church.
Once again your self-confessed racism hides behind spurious and selective outrage.
And nobody, nobody is considering the evidence that Epstein may have been ‘switched out’, escaped while a doppelganger body was put in his place; and now Epstein is enjoying the ‘good life’, perhaps in Israel where there is no extradition treaty.
As someone recently reminded me…..There is no ‘good life’ in Israel, otherwise there would be millions of immigrants queueing to get in. It’s a bolt hole for rich fugatives and religious fanatcs.
What evidence?
Hi Greg,
I think that people have definitely considered that Epstein was switched because there appears to be clear evidence of this. I have posted the links on ‘many’ of the Epstein sites here on Off G and other sites.
For some reason Epstein was taken to the Infirmary ”in a wheelchair” at 4.15am? Why? Had he lost the use of his legs? He was found unconscious at 6.30am, and pronounced dead around 7.30am.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/convicted-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-dead/
Then a prison ‘worker’ tweeted at 8.44am, ten minutes before the story broke in the press that Epstein was found to have hanged himself. ( with paper sheets, from an eight foot high cell roof? )
>>The ominous message posted to 4Chan at 8:44 a.m. reads:
Not saying anything after this pls do not try to dox me but last night after 0415 they took him [Epstein] [to] medical in a wheelchair front cuffed but not 1 triage nurse says they spoke to him. Next thing we know trip vans show up? We do not do releases on weekends unless a judge orders it. Next thing we know, he’s put in a single man cell and hangs himself? Here’s the thing, the trip van did NOT sign in and we did not record the plate number and a guy with a green dress military outfit was in the back of the van according to the tower guy that let him through the gate. You guys I am shaking right now but I think they switched him out. Not lending any credence to this story but it was posted ”before” anyone knew Epstein was ”dead”.
Decide for yourself.
https://www.intellihub.com/prison-workers-4chan-post-10-minutes-before-news-of-jeffrey-epsteins-death-hit-media-guy-in-a-green-dress-military-outfit-switched-him-out/
My thoughts – Epstein is not dead. He is worth far more to the Blackmailing Mob alive than dead. He is away with his new name and identity, and probably a new face. Maybe in the name of who ever is the recipient of his will that he altered TWO days before his said ‘death’?
Imagine if they had killed him. How on earth would they ever get anyone else to step into his shoes?
https://milnenews.com/2019/08/19/jeffrey-epstein-signed-and-filed-his-will-2-days-before-he-died/
When a Black man dies at the hands of the jailer while in jail, the Black communities take their protests to the streets. Hopefully the jews will fill the streets with their outrage at the death of Epstein.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/10/16/police-death-black-man-hits-home-facebook-silicon-valley/1661688002/
This could turn out to be an unexpected key to blanket discrediting of the MSM, and exposing it for what it is. I surely hope so. If gravity is what was used to exert the constricting pressure on a noose, the noose should ride up under the chin, ordinarily well above the hyoid.
If the neck is extended, that is.
Just in; from the Washington Post:
An autopsy found that Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones. Among the bones broken was the hyoid bone. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject.
Jonathan L. Arden, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners, said a hyoid can be broken in many circumstances but is more commonly associated with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.
Arden said that in general, a finding of a broken hyoid requires pathologists to conduct more extensive investigation. That investigation can include analysis of the location of the noose, how narrow the noose is, and if the body experienced any substantial drop in the course of the hanging.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html
Broken hyoid definitely more characteristic of strangulation. But depends on the type of hanging.
Interesting. I can’t imagine a prisoner having access to something like a rope, with strong resistance needed to break the neck bones. One would imagine the suicidee would only have access to sheets and clothing and the end result would be similar to asphyxiation?
Suicide risks are normally given paper sheets.
This is pretty off-topic but it does related to “conspiracy theories” and it’s very topical.
Two days ago, in Sydney’s CBD, we had the usual staged nonsense, this time a Muslim terrorist armed with a knife who killed a sex-worker of whom he was allegedly a client. Rather incongruously for this case, but very common in this type of event, at some point he shouted “allahu akbar”.
And we have the usual anomalies.
Photo in PressFrom showing red (what look like) socks (but seemingly doctored).
https://pressfrom.info/au/news/australia/-141206-sydney-cbd-stabbing-suspect-was-staying-in-emergency-accommodation.html
Channel 9 video showing what look like white socks.
https://youtu.be/cmjy8YsDnUQ?t=108
The Sun video showing what look like white shoes and black socks.
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=5
The image of him being held down in the The Sun video (https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=37) doesn’t match the image of him being held down in the PressFrom photo. In the Sun video he’s near the kerb while in the PressFrom photo he’s away from the kerb. Why would they seemingly move him from one spot to the other? They have him pinned. Why not get him up from where he is and walk him away from that spot?
“And we have the usual anomalies.”
Anomalies my arse. White sports shoes, black/red two-tone socks (black tops, red toes, heels and soles (only black would show with shoes on. As for kerb distance, camera viewpoint differences only. Held down in same spot–easy to check using eyes and checking multiple background references. Have you ever thought of applying for a research job with the On-Guardian (the newspaper everyone should be on guard against when reading).
I’ve just realized, on the final flip from your links and some other–mostly phone–shots also appearing on the web back to this page, that it’s you posting. Well done. Maintaining your usual high standard of slack-shit confusion.
How about no blood on knife … or what do you think Robbo … that they wiped it off or perhaps that you can kill someone with a knife without blood getting on it, that the one in the video was another knife – not the one used? Please explain as infamously said by Pauline Hanson. Please explain the knife. Perhaps the blood was only on one side – the one we don’t see?
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=41
I have no special insight on the knife, I assume it was his but who knows? The cameraman seems to have thought it was If it was, then at the beginning of the shot he was waving it around a little too far from the camera to see it clearly but after that he was chased along the street and brought to the ground by vigilantes before the police arrived. There was blood 0n that of his clothing that can be cleary seen and possibly or even likely on his accosters’ clothing as well. That’s a whole lot of rubbing potentially going on and at 44 seconds, when the ‘7’ logo clears the centre of the screen and the cameraman zooms in on the knife, there’s obviously some discolouration (still?) on the blade. To call any of that definitely suspicious so far borders on the sad-sack delusional.
How I judge events is this, Robbo. If you think there is a flaw in my method please let me know what it is.
The hypothesis that fits ALL the available evidence easily and where some of the evidence at least cannot fit any other hypothesis (or only fits with assumptions and questions) is the one chosen.
In the case of staged events there is always a double-hypothesis:
—There are signs of fakery
—Some of the signs, at least, show deliberate obviousness
In the case of the CBD knifer:
— I aver that the bloodless gun is a deliberate sign of fakery. Even if blood were rubbed, especially in a situation where it has killed someone and injured another, it would show signs of smearing. It is completely clean so I aver that this is a deliberate sign of fakery. It certainly fits deliberate sign of fakery perfectly while for “real” event we have to make the assumption that the knife was wiped completely clean.
—I aver the following are very clear signs of deliberate fakery:
——The word “Staged” appearing incongruously in the middle of this snippet on the page below.
—— The contradictory-to-other-information-provided and inappropriateness of “Must have been a hell of a drug bender…”
[Elsewhere we are told the guy is taking “antinex” (should be Antenex – another sign) but, of course, even if he were on illegal drugs, very inappropriate to the seriousness of the situation.]
https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445
Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…
Thus we have a number of signs of both fakery and deliberate obviousness of fakery. There is absolutely nothing that supports “real” over “staged”.
If this isn’t enough evidence for you, Robbo, how much more evidence would you need? How many instances of fakery/deliberate obviousness of fakery do you require to be confident that an event is staged?
And just to add – the knife is just lying there on the pavement with all those response people around? Wouldn’t it be confiscated?
And just to add further – I guess it is always dangerous to make it about a single piece of evidence, even if it seems extremely compelling – the 2.25 seconds in the collapse of WTC-7 is probably OK because that is just so clear cut. But the point is there isn’t usually only a single piece of evidence in the first place. There’s quite a lot. It’s the fact that ALL the pieces fit one hypothesis nicely while they don’t fit any other hypothesis in the same way. It’s like Cinderella’s glass slipper – it fit her perfectly but no one else although no doubt another foot could have been jammed into the shoe.
Apologies, Robbo, I missed your bit about discoloration. I can see reddish on the handle which we would expect if he has “blood” on his hands but I see no signs of blood or smearing on the blade. There seem to be white marks on the blade but these in no way to me suggest smearing or cleaning off of blood. To put it bluntly, there is simply no sign of blood (or previous signs of blood) on the blade of the knife. Yes, it could have been wiped off so that there were no traces, however, a bloodless blade perfectly fits “gratuitous sign of fakery” (part b of hypothesis) while we have to make assumptions for “real”. And then we have the seeming anomaly of the blade just lying there. Very importantly, this isn’t the ONLY piece of evidence. Every other piece can be seen to either fit both hypotheses or favour “staged” over “real”.
Also, agreed I made too much of the socks, however, clearly he is not wearing red socks in the Channel 9 video while he is shown to be wearing red socks in the photo. Yes, they could have taken the red socks off before they marched him away just as they took his shoes off. That is a possibility.
I stand by his different positioning. You can clearly see the kerb right next to him in The Sun video and you can see the kerb is distant from him in the photo.
Come on now…he wasn’t wearing socks.
I’m not sure what your argument is axisofoil. I say quite clearly, “Yes, they could have taken the red socks off before they marched him away just as they took his shoes off. That is a possibility.” However, whether he was wearing white socks or no socks in the Channel 9 video is of little import now, axisofoil, because I pulled out a much more compelling piece of evidence.
I find it interesting that people who argue with me choose my original weak (sometimes invalid) point and argue against that, ignoring the more compelling point I’ve subsequently brought up as if it doesn’t exist. Bloodless knife is very hard to make fit for “real” event. If you can make it fit, please let me know how, axisofoil, however, even if you can make it fit I’m sure I’ll be able to come up with something else because they’re always generous with their clues. You have to give them that – they’re always generous with their clues and so it’s difficult not to recognise the fakery except by wifully turning your head from the generous clues they provide.
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=41
Flaxgirl, I really know nothing about socks. I do know that pedophiles desire distraction right now, and are probably reading where this post is going and smiling. With Epstein gone, managing the dialog will be a breeze. Next we’ll be talking about walnut cheese pizza thinking it is a country.
As they were leading him to the van, I think you are right, no socks, but not certainly: there’s only a very brief two or three frame flash of his feet not obscured by “Breaking News” banner or his escort on the best clip I found. It’s difficult to discern on this tablet which is stuck with YouTube’s crude viewer and I couldn’t be bothered to search for an alternative angle or fire up my desktop to download the clip for a better analysis in a half decent viewer or two.
Forget about the inconclusive socks, Robbo. Let’s move on from them. The bloodless knife is unarguable with and then how about the word “Staged” appearing incongruously in the middle of this snippet on this page and the inappropriateness of “Must have been a hell of a drug bender…” I thought the guy was on prescription drugs but, of course, even if he were on illegal drugs, very inappropriate.
https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445
Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…
The only odd thing about that Chan 9 vid is something you don’t mention. The cops seem to be doing a photo op with the perp, holding him down on the ground for several mins while the assembled press take pics!
If it were clearer that the guy is wearing white socks that would be very significant against the photo of him wearing red socks, however, as it’s not clear I acknowledge I shouldn’t have bothered with it – he may well be sockless. Holding the guy down for pics may be odd but it doesn’t clearly indicate fakery. My main concern is clear indication of fakery.
This video (if it hasn’t been pulled down) clearly shows cops spraying blood at the Philly event. Caught red-handed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGRq80InQU
And allowing themselves to be seen bullying him although he has obviously been neutralized. Still, the Sydney police are extraordinarily rough in their own interests, no external events or conspiracies required. One night, two or three decades ago now, I was past a police station car park at the top of the main road from the CBD to Kings Cross when, as if it were daylight, several large policemen were
Oops, accidentally hit Post:
… several large policemen were seriously assaulting a slight, Italian looking guy before dragging him inside. When I mentioned it to some Australian friends I was on my way to meet in a restaurant they just shrugged–so what was unusual about that?–but who obviously didn’t believe it could happen in such a wide open public space. Several months later they sent me a clipping from a Sydney newspaper. An Italian guy who’d been arrested in Kings Cross was suing the police for the beating they had given him in the police station car park before taking him inside to be charged. As they had the receipt for the meal in their tax file, they checked the date…
-3 (and counting) Sydney coppers reading here?
And this has what to do with Epstein? Obfuscation as it’s best.
It has nothing to do with Epstein specifically, but it does have a lot to do with obfuscation in general, which is likely figure ever larger in the postmortem Epstein story for some time yet. From my point of view analysis of obfuscations is usually more relevant to the future than analyses of most of its specific instances, fish and chip wrapper being what it is. So far this particular off-topic subthread has not reached an analysis of anything, true but maybe it will yet…
Meanwhile, those outraged by the paedophiliac aspect of the deceased Epstein’s entrepreneurial activities in itself might–but almost certainly won’t–care to consider the possibility that the reportedly harmful effects of paedophilia on the children and teenagers involved possibly falls under the same old bell curve that delineates most humans’ expression of themselves, however much variation in skewness and kurtosis is involved in fitting it to different cultures in different times and different circumstances, and that could also be seen as or engendering obfuscation.
Flax – Clearly shown in the accompany video. White trainers and black sock with red heels and toes. His shoes and socks were removed for some reason as were his trousers – almost!
and he was pushed into the van bare foot.
Probably became schizophrenic after abusing drugs for some time? Or NOT taking his meds?
This happened to my friend’s son, resulting in him stabbing someone in the back for ”talking about him.” When in fact he had stopped his meds weeks before. He was locked in Rampton for 15 years and then sent out to live in accommodation in the community, with a supervisor… But he is still schizophrenic…
It was NOT an act of terror, but was the act of a mentally ill young man.
Maggie, you cannot base your judgement of an event on plausibility, it must be on the evidence.
They give us clear evidence that it is a staged event as follows:
—photos of him with both brown eyes and blue eyes and in a photo with blue eyes you can see the the ring around the iris indicating blue-tinted contact lenses (scroll down).
https://pressfrom.info/au/news/australia/-141427-sydney-stabbing-accused-mert-ney-reportedly-saw-michaela-dunn-and-other-sex-workers-before-alleged-attacks.html
—text in the media that includes the anomalous appearance of the word “Staged” and the highly inappropriate “Must have been a hell of a drug bender …”:
https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445
Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…
It is impossible to fit the three things above into a “real” event while they perfectly fit “staged” – as they always undermine the reality of their staged events with signs. Additionally, there is no evidence that favours real over staged.
Sorry Flax, but I disagree on this occasion. The ‘colour’ change in the eye was due to dilation. The Mancunian brothers who chased the guy down said that he popped something into his mouth just before they overpowered him. Most medication takes 20 min to take effect. Which would account for the iris anomaly?
”psychotropic stimulants”
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/drugs-dilated-pupils/
Whilst I agree with many of your deductions about previous ‘false flags’ In this case I believe that this was genuinely a disturbed young man, who was screaming for help..
Maggie, the issue is different colour of iris not the size of it seemingly compromised by pupil dilation.
Three things that favour “staged” over “real”:
— Eyes appearing first brown then blue and ring around iris in photo indicating the presence of blue-tinted contact lenses to explain this anomaly
— The word “staged” simply stuck in a paragraph not connected to the text within it
— The highly inappropriate tone and register of “must have been a hell of a drug bender …”
There are other things too but can’t be bothered going into them.
I didn’t notice pupil dilation myself. I think the Mancunians are big fat crisis actors.
I am happy to agree to disagree. I will read whatever you write in reply but that is all I have to say … unless you have some compelling evidence that the event was real.
If you had told these sages for the first time a couple of days ago that a prominent NY financier was running a child sex ring for top politicians and academics you can imagine what their response would have been…
Spot on.
“Do you have his number?'”
Not everybody, hat doesn’t believe official narrative is a conspiracy theorist, because it has bin proven that official do lie!”I never had a sexual relation with that woman, Monica Lewinsky”, said Bill Clinton under oath.
Ah, but blow jobs don’t count.
“I did not impale.”
I actually met ML once.
Strange that a fat little Jewess was being dangled in front of Slick Willie at a time when he was being uncharacteristically critical of Talmudistan over its settlements.
Probably pure coincidence.
Give it a fucking rest.
_________________________
Proud to be Anti-FAsCemitic
During his grand jury testimony, in regards regarding the truthfulness of his statement that “there IS not a sexual relationship… .” Clinton used carefully worded responses, like -“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is” ”
therefore…
B.C. ” I want you to listen to me…..I did not have sexual relations with THAT woman.” (Stop/Pause/Break/End/Finish/Close – Discontinuence.
“Miss Lewinsky.”
tis crafty indeed, much like the above Guardian quotes – just more hollow,meaningless…doublespeak nonsense.
🙂
‘B.C. ” I want you to listen to me…..I did not have sexual relations with THAT woman.” (Stop/Pause/Break/End/Finish/Close – Discontinuence.
“Miss Lewinsky.””
Good, accurate transcription of inherent, rampant, underlying sexism uncovered by total concious attention being directed elsewhere. Why thousands of feminists did not pick up on that “THAT’ and march on Washington as a lynching party I’ve never been able to fathom.
So here are few questions:
1. An anonymous source who spent many months in the MCC has stated that committing suicide by hanging using sheets was in effect impossible. So ask the following:
a. Was the internal spec of Epstein’s cell in any way different to the others, to make the impossible possible?
b. Were Epstein’s sheets of unusual strength, making them capable of hanging a 160-200lb male to death? Suicide watch sheets were made of paper….
c. How specifically was this sheet attached to the ceiling?
d. How did Epstein acquire the ability to install such attachments to the ceiling? (we are talking needing to drill holes etc, industrial-grade adhesives or the like)
e. How often were cells checked for such illicit tools? As often as in Alcatraz in the 1960s?
2. Given Epstein’s remarkable network in the corridors of power, do you not find it odd in the extreme that he returned to Teterboro in the first place, as he would surely have known what awaited him? Would he not always travel with false identities in place to make a quiet getaway, if he really were a CIA/Mossad operative?
3. If he were going to turn State’s Evidence, do you not think the deal would be keeping him under wraps well away from the US, then flying him in to give evidence at trial? Seeing as how the MCC was SO safe…
4. If he had served his masters so well for so long, why was retirement not execution not the order of his masters? If they really are so powerful, who was more powerful to make them sacrifice him to stay in the game?
Note, I am seeking to ‘eliminate the official narrative from my enquiries’, not postulate conspiracy theories. Only when offcial narratives are proven to be bunkum, hocus pocus, products of the rear ends of equines etc etc, need new hypotheses be formulated to be submitted to skeptical enquiries.
Rhys, while I agree with much of your analysis, the official story is that he tied whatever he used to strangle himself to the upper bunk bed, not the ceiling. By talking about ‘drilling holes in the ceiling’ etc., your entire argument can be waved away by the MSM as discredited. They usually simply pick on one slight incorrect fact to sweep away every other piece of logic.
Agreed, but you can accept Rhys’ incredulity. To hang yourself from a top bunk, (approx 5′ 6″) takes extraordinary intent and the ability to overcome your own, built in survival mechanisms. I think Fred West did it, but he was a very different character to Mr Epstein. I imagine you’d have to secure your hands first, then drop from the top bunk with a ligature in place, with bended legs which you would resist from acting as a stop mechanism by having tied them around the thighs and ankles so the legs couldn’t be extended, otherwise self survival would automatically take over.
Mr Epstein may have been desperate but was he also beyond believing in the power his wealth provided in a country that found Michael Jackson not guilty and so fanatically single minded that his life had no meaning any more?
A former inmate in the same unit had some interesting comments on the alleged suicide…
https://www.foxnews.com/us/theres-no-way-jeffrey-epstein-killed-himself-a-former-nyc-jail-inmate-says
Rhys, John Kiriakou has written a considered piece at Consortium News, which covers much of the conspiracy/cock-up aspects that may have allowed the kiddy fiddler to attempt suicide by nonce haters in most prisons. (I guess because he was obviously shit at doing it to himself).
I think this “suicide” conspiracy had to begin with Epstein taken into custody, because if he’d disappeared while free he would be considered alive and well for many years to come. Only after a fake suicide (and the body with a different nose and ear proves there was a body swap) can there be the suggestion he’s dead. They wouldn’t swap a body and then kill him, they’d just kill him. Epstein is free somewhere, arranged by powerful crooks worse than the mafia.
What surprises me most of all is that he didn’t get wind of this and make himself scarce before being arrested. He must have been tipped off about it.
Hide out with all the other fraudsters, swindlers, sex traffickers, organ traffickers and the like in Talmudistan.
Maybe this gives some credence to the suggestion the death was faked, an elaborate hoax.
The propaganda arm of the establishment (ie theGuardian) knows it can resort to vacuous opinion pieces like this because in certain controversial circumstances truth is hidden behind a veil of secrecy and official corruption.
Instead the media resorts to REPITITION rather than evidence to get their message out, in other words article after article appears utilising the same key phrases over and over again: in this case linking Epstein with paedophilia and suicide (much in the same way they did with Corbyn and antisemitism)
The death of David Kelly is a perfect example of how this overall process plays out: overt political interference, compliant judicial figures and a media that is hostile to truth telling should that truth conflict with certain narratives (such as challenging the lies Blair told to rationalise the murder of one million Iraqis).
The JFK enquiry was a joke, while 9/11 is practically an instruction manual on how to subvert justice.
Of course, if an individual is unlucky enough to be hidden behind a prison wall (see Julian Assange) god knows what can happen.
The only thing we know for sure is that if you do want to find out then the very last place to look is compromised platforms like Guardian because all you get there, as Kit rightly points out are simplistic cultural tropes rather than meaningful interrogation of the actual evidence.
The Groan is the hook upon which the social democrats of the population happily fling themselves upon daily, like so many mackerel upon a single line. Easy fish.
That is the conspiracy of the pied piper too.
On Epstein they have nothing to add and plenty to cut from the daily emerging facts through the honest work of some police, some lawyers, some judges and some genuine investigative journalists – in this instance the Miami Herald. – ALL IN THE US.
The most glaring ommission of the Groan and the British press is – Maxwell – she has been disappeared, as if she had no connection with this country.
The Groan is in a full blown conspiracy today along with the rest of the msm and broadcasters to destroy the remaining parliamentry democracy in the country.
The Establishment is fermenting a coup rather than allowing the usual democratic processes from allowing a government that they would not control and would undo their decades of neoliberalism robbery at home and neocon imperialism abroad.
They didn’t even dare print Corbyns short letter to the otger leaders and tories ! But they sure as hell are tearing it to pieces. The only place i can find it is on JC’s twitter.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1161751909788782594?s=20
P.s. – A MIRACLE
Rafael Behr has managed to get an article about the attempted coup by a Coaltion that excludes the official Opposition. It is well down the web page though.
Viner must be on hols!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/15/remainers-stop-brexit-install-corbyn-pm
BUT – Note the final sentence in the url?
The actual headline is:
‘Remainers will do anything to stop Brexit, except install Corbyn as PM. Why?’
Not all the ptopagandists are on hols.
The Guardian is nothing but a propaganda pushing poodle poop paper!
This is a super scandal. It is a spit in the face of American people, a spit in Tramp’s face and a spit in the American Government face. Tramp and his government were not able to protect Epstein and this a proof that no one is safe, including the president, and that the government is not in control and that’s the SCANDAL.
Operation Northwoods was a state contrived Conspiracy Theory to enable SpartUSAns to invade Cuba.
Thanks Kit, excellent piece.
Conspiracy theories may be harmful to the state, because they highlight the total corruption of the ruling elites.
I was reading the Guardian the other day; it was an article about the gold price of all things. There was one BTL contribution which argued that women unlike men had never caused wars. I thought this was rather a silly and inaccurate statement, and duly replied that some women had started wars or been involved in war and mayhem. These included, Golda Meir, Hilary Clinton, Indira Gandhi and just for good luck, Boudica and Lucretia Borgia. I was subsequently moderated for the heresy of suggesting some women had started wars, and damned as a ‘mysogynist’. This is the ridiculous impasse that identity politics has taken us to. A denial of objective facts, and a belief that: All women = Good, All (white) men = Bad.
Francis Lee, I remember seeing you play for Bolton Wanderers many moons ago, before you transferred to Man City.
Anyway, back to your post and your parting shot.
It has become aware to me after lurking on twatter, that white, “cis” men are responsible for all the evils in this World since time began, and the people who state this includes white men who dress up as women.
I will add to your list of evil women – Margaret Thatcher, Madeleine Albright, Condoleeza Rice, Aung Sang Suu kyi, Gina Haspel, Moira Hindley.
Generally speaking though, alpha males are the most dangerous creatures on the planet – alpha males of all races.
All because you didn’t recognise that prime minister Thatcher the snatcher of the Falklands, was prime candidate and you offended their national sense of mother’s pride and everybody knows that the Iron lady was not for turning and as always loved milk tray … Cadburys, Francis, you gotta’ tender the guardian girlies of MI77, with British chocolate, First 😉
Yes Tim Jenkins… $1.9 BILLION.. to allegedly protect 2,932 people? Only 59% of whom consider themselves to be British?
The UK still has a major military presence on the island. At last count it was:
• 1,300 Service personnel plus around 50 MOD civil servants.
• Four Typhoon fast-jet aircraft
• VC-10 tanker aircraft
• Hercules C-130 aircraft
• Rapier surface-to-air missiles
• Frigate or Destroyer (currently Type 23 frigate HMS Montrose to be replaced by Type
45 destroyer HMS Dauntless)
• Royal Fleet Auxiliary Gold Rover
• HMS Clyde permanently stationed in the region as Falklands Patrol
• Infantry company currently from 2 Scots
Military in the area will cost the UK £61 million ($96 million) in 2012-13, which is expected to increase by £2 million ($3.14 million) EACH YEAR FOR 900 MEN?
While in the grandiose world of military budgets that might not be that much, when you look at the cost per British citizen on the Falklands, that works out at more than a whopping £20,000 or $31,000 (and that is only the defence budget, other costs will be born on other budgets). and is a debt for life for the people of the UK.
Oil exploration could be worth £1.5 Billion????? Which will go into the hands of Private companies and Banks…
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/03/falkland-islands-data-charts
The evil bastard Thatcher done good for her cronies..
Whilst not forgetting that the Argentinian Nazi rat liners had their General Belgrano torpedoed on Tancred’s aka Thedor “The Father of Modern Zionism” Herzl’s 122 nd birthday …
MG
A wicked conclusion, MG: gawd only knows how you research & calculate such things, but the relationship between Zionism & the ‘Flak’lands affair had always been resting at the back of my mind, for many decades … 😉
Ta’4That & greetings,
Tim
You are welcome Tim.
Wicked on the Zio-Anglo war mongering bastards side, for sure. Combined with Thatcher’s re-election fever. Otherwise, a very obvious motivation. Zionic revenge is the name of the game. Any and all who aided and abetted the Sabbatean Nazis are fair game, hence the current “terroristic” paradigm.
I pay close attention, record events and analyse relationships to decode the scripts.
Presentation wise, there’s much more to do, but here’s the general gist.
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/introduction.html
Re: the original Crusader Tancred, whom Herzl mimicked via D’Israeli’s literary fantasies see here :
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/first_crusade_tancred_prince_of_galilee.html
Fictitious “terroristic” entities, fabricated as allegories to the real thing.
Herzl was but a tool of the Shaftesbury / Palmerston masonic milieu, all devilishly propagated by the Quatuor Coronati.
MG
Forgot to mention :
Nick Kollerstrom headed up the People’s Inquiry into the illegal sinking of the Belgrano :
http://belgranoinquiry.com/
If you have any questions then contact Dr Nick :
https://terroronthetube.co.uk/
I’m sure he’ll be flattered.
MG
Thanks for this Mark: seriously interesting ‘stuff’, duly bookmarked 🙂
Join the discussion Frances Lee
I once posted the same like you on the German die Zeit and my post was deleted too.They just don’t want to hear that…
Add Benazir Bhutto and Khaleda Zia too.
If Hitler had worn a dress he’d have been a jolly good egg.
Was it not incompetence that led to the 11th September 2001, ‘Shirley’ ?
Yes indeed, Tim. That, and a “failure of imagination.” LMAO!
Plus the fact that the US government failed to understand that those Muslims had the magical power of Allah to help them with a few miracles.
Ah yes George, how could I could forget the miracle of WTC7, Allah’s real target, to assist in covering up any & all US financial irregular dealings, (involving many Trillions effectively) with everything-everything from the SEC to Government Security Agencies and the IRS … Allah the all seeing master of disaster, with the sidekick Psychic BBC duly advised, well in advance and even letting the public know, almost a full half hour in advance … what a guy, this chap Mohammed, truly a saint 🙂 looking for all lost souls, with a passport …
The Guardian of the Elite was blind during Jimmy Savile UK reign as to be expected: this mass pedophile / Elite pimp died of old age at 84. Only ITV dared to go for him a year after his death. MI5 honey trap protection or “old boys” network?
US mass pedophile / Elite pimp Jeffrey Epstein was at least caught at 66. The Guardian has zero moral authority to question this being a FBI or CIA honey trap.
Kids of the plebs were gang raped for decades in the UK, but that was kept under the Guardian’s Left Political Correct lid. Asian grooming rings? No, Pakistani Muslim rape gangs targeting white non Muslim teenage girls serially https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexual_abuses_perpetrated_by_groups#United_Kingdom
70% of UK Pakistanis origin from Pakistan Kashmir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pakistanis#Azad_Kashmiris
Their men still have a good grip on the Guardian, as the latter consistently reports negative on the freely elected and empowered Indian PM in favor of the powerless Army run Pakistani PM.
Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
The Trolls will discus plenty of theory but not the real conspiracy: seriously they just don’t wish to discuss the Pakistani Imran Awan now in jail, ‘officially’ and his brother, who was burnt up twice, in his incendiary remote control computerised time bomb Tesla in Florida: scroll down to Epstein Ghost, if in doubt: because I’m fed up with posting the link to Rosiak’s book that everybody, avoids reviewing …
I read the book after following your link, and it is a ripper. I couldn’t stop laughing all the way through, but not in a good way.
So glad you laughed as much as I, simply said, stunning 🙂 ‘stuff’, that I’m sure is correct, having worked sub-contract for the White House, on their annual visits to Davos in Switzerland, up to & including the year 2000, transporting the WH Communications Centre and widely various kinds of people & loads from AirForce One, including Al Gore’s kids and having to endure full scale incompetence from their CIA Agents, plain clothes military detail and the Swiss Anti-Terror Police …
Man-o-man, I’m highly tempted right here, right now to tell you the whole story of how I personally stopped the WHOLE White House convoy on the hard shoulder of a snowy icy motorway and how I, with muffled anger & threats to walk off the job as Transport Manager (unless everybody followed exactly to the letter, my very specific instructions), had the required effect !
Seriously, Boot Hill, were it not for a highly intelligent woman, with the overall power & to listen & communicate orders quietly & effectively to a bunch of idiot lazy sleepy men’s egos, I was going to take my bag from the vehicle with Al Gore’s daughter and son inside, hop over the central barrier and Hitchhike home, in the ice & snow, so dangerous was the complete lack of ANY elementary disciplines, including the extremely arrogant threatening boss of the Swiss Anti-Terror Police, who ended up looking like the dumb cnut, that he truly was … and I would like to herewith express my personal thanks and respect to this day, to Marlene A. Chiatovich, who backed me up on my wholly valid criticism & pointers, as to how to do the job safely >>> which of course, made me no friends in future, but hey who cares, when we were all alive afterwards … and it was after this incident that I declined to work for such incompetent, poorly disciplined people who believed they were highly trained and postured themselves like demi-gods, in private & public … when they were complete fucking morons ! 🙂
‘MI5 honey trap protection or “old boys” network?’ I believe it was worse – MI5 created and used the network not just for the purpose of entrapment but to make money, lots of it.
Also, I’d like to know if there’s any evidence of the Pakistani gangs being run by a central organisation
These Pakistanis should team up with the real professional sex traffickers in Talmudistan.
They’d get on like a house on fire.
There should be some evidence to support a conspiracy theory, beyond ‘he couldn’t have committed suicide, he had too much dirt on powerful people’. There is no smoking gun here.
Prison suicides happen every day.
Or, alternatively, never attribute to malice, what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
Yawn.
Obviously at this point there is insufficient evidence to reach firm conclusions. But the thing a police officer always looks at is motive. Always strikes me as strange that all the conspiracy theories since proved right, which is a great deal, the crimes have been attributed to the one with least motive. Then there is past criminal record – not a clincher but here the ‘state’ has a record as long as your arm. Circumstantial evidence is also a guide.
No one in their right mind could dismiss alternatives to the suicide theory but they still do. Look at MH17 and Douma – both cases where blame established at the outset. The first official narrative full of holes the second (which we nearly started WW3 over) disproven.
Do you not think there is such a strong pattern here and understandable that many people now work from the default position the state is lying and go from there. That would not seem unreasonable given what we now know but certainly a detective or proper investigative journalist would go into this with an open mind while looking at the factors I mentioned.
Does it not concern you that the Guardian and Bellingcat etc works from a predetermined position to reach the narrative convenient to the state – completely opposite to the way a professional investigator would go about it?
It does me and the sole fact the state and media make firm accusations in the immediate aftermath of an event, and base war decisions upon (which we repeat over and over) is a good indicator of what is really behind many events.
I’ll bet you never met an official story you didn’t like.
We only need to change the venue to Russia to realise that it would then be a fully fledged Official Conspiracy Theory of the Presstitute Media, their familiars and the State.
Hope this helps WHB?
Nothing can help WHB – so there’s no point in trying.
I think you have the sequence wrong. As in let’s find a situation where we can engineer the appearance of incompetence and use it as a cover. Then Bob’s our uncle and we can bloody well do whatever we want. Is that so remote?
Stop trying to assume that WHB can find his brain cell.
Yes sir.
Considering the dimension of this affair, the article is spot on about the role of the Guardian.
The Guardian is the NYT for the British, isn’t it? Aligned with the owner classes’ directives as to how to destroy the last remaining pockets of critical thinking. While I really don’t consider the Guardian any more capable of real and truthful journalism than the Weekly World News, the Guardian is not as entertaining. It is a rag that only follows orders and has zero integrity.
This, on the other hand, opens a channel that reveals how the propaganda is intended to work. Just in time for the new FBI policy – that will soon be the policy of the UK regime – any form of dissent, any form of deviation from the freely knitted ‘official conspiracy theory’ is now indicative of a person that poses a threat to the owner class. This is about testing the waters for the big one. The big one being more like another nine11 – leading to another great war. Who Epstein was and if he indeed ‘was and not still ‘is’, is rather irrelevant. While I have compassion and empathy for those who were harmed and lured into actions they would have not engaged in otherwise, I also do not forget, that there are people responsible for the murder of millions of innocent human beings all over the world. Most notably in the Middle East. They do not need to fear any justice at all.
IF Epstein had any assets left – to which his little minor-girls’-exploitation-island belongs – these assets need to forfeited and distributed among those who have evidently been abused in one way or another to be made available to men in the highest positions of governments/regimes, industry and show business. But that does not solve the problem of predictive programming that is perpetrated before our very eyes. The real problem is not another pervert with connections to the ‘who’s who’ of the richest and most powerful guys on Earth. The real problem is much deeper and sadly plays out on the expense of already abused women.
Conspiracy theories are just that – theories. A theory is created if the population is not given the truth. The truth starts before Epstein ever got arrested. It starts way before Trump was selected. It starts before nine11. The American people and the world at large, is owed the truth for many decades. It is always the regime in question who causes theories to be born. Of course it must be understood that so called ‘think tanks’ do also nothing else but theorize about how to best shaft the people of the world. How to best prepare for the big war – how to best create a system in which the population is made liable for its desire to find out about the truth that it is denied. Over and over and over again.
The Epstein affair is to program people to not second guess anything the regime tells them. Emphasis on anything. It actually drives people into an acute state of cognitive dissonance. The population is denied any thinking and the voicing of these thoughts. This is the real crime against humanity. A crime of epic proportions that is unprecedented. The Nazis used a technique called ‘Nacht und Nebel’ (Night and Fog – my translation) to disappear people. The relatives were not given any information as to who picked their loved ones up in the night, nor where they ended up at, or what happened to them.
At that, the behavior of the regime is identical of the Nacht und Nebel program of the Nazis. The population is not given any information at all. What it is given is blame for asking what happened. It is insulted for using its remaining thinking to arrive at an answer it can live with. The Guardian and the NYT are guilty of crimes against humanity for their role as propaganda outlets for the Western regimes. Propaganda is the worst conspiracy of them all. The ability of the people to ask questions is destroyed. Whoever questions the official narrative is deemed a threat to the fascist society. Welcome to your worst nightmare – the character defamation, persecution and incarceration without having committed any crime other than questioning those who do the narrating.
You may call that a theory, if you care to do so.
The whole thing is about governance that has been abused by its leaders. I don’t a government that is bad, but I don’t know a single person in government that is good.
These persons use governments as if the governments were their private tools. They conduct government business in secret behind closed doors Government officials and private contractors are using governments and the militarizes and the contractors doing business with the governments to sell state secrets and to use the monopoly on the use of force to make customers buy goods and services from private manufactures or contractors, to conduct drug trades, to conduct slavery all for private gain and profit. A business criminals (government officials) they have it made, the public pays all costs and the officials pocket all of the receipts ( <=a zero cost set of businesses so to speak). All who do business in, with or around said government do so only after agreeing to abide by non disclosure agreements. Never shall they tell the about the corruption being conducted behind the doors sealed off from the governed. A honest person in a western government does not seem to exist.. The expose' about Epstein and his sexual black mail is a redirect.. the real issue is the espionage have a look.
the real Epstein story
‘They’, the National Security State, could have taken out (or removed from public circles or any prison) ole’ Jeff’ McBeff, any time they wanted, over the decades for his various depraved behaviours, but right now they really needed a huge distraction from the truth about Imran Awan: you know the brothers, one dead ‘officially’ & the other one they say, in jail, being the Dems. IT Guy, who did not just leak or hack the Dems. servers & computers, nonono, he was just walking into government facilities and physically picking up and walking out of the offices with the whole damn servers and storing them in his lift shaft !
Lock stock & smoking barrel … Very embarrassing for all members of Congress & The Senate, & GovernMental Security systems, coz’ he even had all their credit card numbers, not just personal personnel Gov. Data: and still he only got 4 years in ‘Chokey’, because he owned up, in the end, to having all Data on every Government Official Reps. & Dems. alike, no reservations, but many negotiations, coz’ they wanted their servers back & to understand the full implications of his various nefarious computer scams, including false purchase orders: you name it, he did it and not just for money, (unlike the cheeky chump Seth Rich …).
When you compare Julian Assange’s illegal incarceration in the Ecuadorian Embassy, 4 years is nothing and I’m damn sure that Imran Awan will just disappear from prison, forever, just like Jeff’ McBeff did, with nightmare visions of a Dagger, in future …
Prepare for some Pakistani company in hell, Epstein ghost.
Oh, and any word from his brother already officially in the afterlife ( your domain)
would be much appreciated,
if that truly was him in that Tesla that caught fire twice in Florida, once after hitting a tree:
and again in police custody afterwards: obviously, these Tesla cars are incendiary time bombs, with remote control wholly doable: Logic … from Tel Aviv.
For now, if you could just send us some dental records from hell,
we’d be eternally grateful, before it gets too hot & full up down there 😉
I fear the truth is indeed worse than the narrative under construction, much worse. It’s amazing what you can do without building permits or building codes. This could be David Kelly redux from the government side, but making it clear that Kelley was by all accounts a decent honourable man. Not easily confused with Epstein, a fraudster, embezzler, child molester, pimp and all round fraud. Lots of parallels with Bernie Madoff, but for the perv part.
Hmm . . . I’m sorry but I cannot accept the description of any human who devoted his/her career to the fraudulent, deceitful tosh producing UN weapons inspectorate as a “decent honourable man”.
It is this tendency to cast all victims of imperial machinations in a good light of near saintliness, while categorizing all other drones in the same machine as the epitome of evil, which leads to the over-simplification of ways, means and the outcomes produced from them.
If one of the types who topped Epstein suddenly had an attack of the guilts and ‘fessed all, would that make him a fine human being? No, of course not, he would still be a scumbag murderer – even though his victim rated the same or higher than this murderer on the universal scale of scumbag equivalency, just as Epstein would always have remained a bugger, child rapist, kidnapper and destroyer of humanity, even if he had turned state’s evidence at his trial.
Whenever someone takes the time to analyse the great injustices committed every day by the empire, it is when the empire’s system indulges in that lowest common denominator reductionist nonsense designed to appeal to the knee-jerk element among the masses, where one finds injustice to be pretty much routine.
IMO Kelly was an arsehole, albeit one who wanted to keep his own mitts clean as he manipulated a filthy machine.
Kelley stood up when most would and did not. And he died for it. I find your comments startling, inappropriate and unsupported. Unless you would like to share some evidence you have yet to detail.
May I remind you that Blix and Kelley and a few others tried to stop the slaughter in Iraq. Are you suggesting it was perfectly appropriate? What did you do to prevent the invasion?
It isn’t the opposition to the invasion I object to, it is all the years Kelly spent as a biological weapons specialist churning out dodgy UN reports and UK government propaganda which supported the continued development of disgusting weapons designed to knock off those unfortunates unlucky enough to live somewhere that possessed something USuk wanted, that I object to.
I suppose you are one of those naifs who clings to the foolish belief that Porton Downs only exists to develop antidotes to the cruel biological weapons those dirty commies still manufacture by the trainload.
That the occasional destruction of herds of agricultural beasts in Britain is purely coincidental to their proximity to one of Her Majesty’s sites for the ‘prevention of biological war’, in which case you must also believe that the novichuk that turned up in Salisbury 4 miles up the road from Porton Downs was also purely coincidental and it was the Russkies who dragged it into england.
If you do believe a WMD expert employed by the UK government for most of his working life then recommended for a top UN posting by that government, is completely in the dark about what his employer really got up to, perhaps I can sell you a slightly used but still 100% robust bridge currently wasting away as a connection between the north and south banks of the Thames.
That is the game Kelly was in for the totality of his working life, yep he did say there was no evidence Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, but a cynic could assume that was arse-covering so he wasn’t held in the same contempt as a Colin Powell was when nothing was found post invasion.
He was part of the machine of deceit and destruction for far longer than the few weeks he was an informer so I have no regard for him, or the horse he rode up on.
Just because it was convenient for those opposed to the illegal invasion of Iraq to canonise him following his death as a way of helping focus opposition to that war crime, does not make his sainthood genuine, it just means that too much of the opposition to that horror-show deluded themselves about how vehement and determined opposition would need to be in order to succeed.
Continuing with the Kelly sainthood nonsense is continuing with ‘talk therapy’ as a means to stop the greedy & cruel destruction of our only habitat.
It hasn’t worked before and there is no reason to believe it could ever work.
Hmmph.
I’m waiting for “failure of imagination” to be trotted out.
What a ‘wicked’ imagination you have 😉
Would you like a ‘shot’ in my new TESLA 🙂
Imran Awan’s brother, also had one for Pakistani reconnaissance … 😉
down(ed) in Florida …
bring your own fire extinguisher, lmao
Humour me a little – what is the obsession with Imran Awan?
Is there a link to Epstein that I missed?
Very much a connection to Epstein Maggie and I’ve warned you all, including Kit @OffG, on the first brief article announcing Epstein’s purported death and the full scale distraction that this truly is and I’m so surprised that you and most others have allowed yourselves to become wholly distracted, (as per plan), from what Imran Awan & his brother were actually doing: what he did and what has happened, subsequent to the release of Luke Rosiak’s book about Imran Awan and the complete failure by omission of all Mainstream Media to review this astounding book … !
Ask yourself Why ?
Above, you will find a comment from Boot Hill to me and my reply to him should give you at least some indication that i’ve had personal first hand experience of working with US Politicians, their Kids, their plain clothes military detail & CIA Agents …
amongst much other high level experience.
Boot Hill has now read the book about what constitutes full scale GovernMental incompetence and collective corruption, that is & was always far more serious in terms of The History of the National Security State, than any whistle blower could ever evidence, from Binney & Wiebe & Manning & Assange & Snowden & Hannigan & Steele & Skripal & MIFSUD (Get MIFSUD, now!), the list on both sides of the pond is so huge and YET, … what the Amran Brothers got away with, as Hillary & the Dems. IT Guys, was way bigger and of demonstrably more significance than all of the above names listed … COMBINED ! including Hillary’s singular set of private servers !
Nobody listens to lil’ ole’ me, normally, where I live and I had hoped to raise yours and others interest into my training in both military & corporate intelligence, to the highest levels of Tech. & Science, which tells me immediately when I’m being deceived …
I’m telling you very clearly you are being deceived and if you check my jocular reply to ‘Epstein Ghost’, (logically, a suspicious handle in itself), you will get something of what I’m suggesting, in as much as, ‘they’ could have taken down Epstein anytime, anywhere, in any manner of their choice for decades: and if you don’t ‘get’ that, you clearly don’t ‘get’ the games in play, designed to occupy your attention by ‘looking over there’ @Epstein and his ‘Ghost’ !
So, all in all, just for your personal benefit, I will repeat myself one last time: Listen carefully to this STUNNING book review first, whilst washing up 🙂 , then explore the contents potential Dynamite, as a lock stock & smoking barrel of a gun that destroys the whole of the Republican’s & Democrat’s political credibility and exposes, even makes a MOCKERY of GovernMENTAL Security Systems & Checks and then consider how “Parallel Platforms” can manipulate absolutely anything and put you or me in prison, when we are guilty of absolutely nothing other than trying to warn people about the …
Fascist Powers of secreted Parallel Platforms !
I know what I’m talking about, very seriously 🙂
Though it might often not appear that obvious, sometimes … 😉
This story is getting good coverage on the WSWS where among other articles one by Patrick Martin asks
“Why is the media dismissing questions about Jeffrey Epstein’s death as “conspiracy theories”?”
This excerpt will appeal to Guardian readers:
“..Given the campaign over Russia, we are compelled to ask: What if a high-profile prisoner had died in a Moscow prison under circumstances similar to those surrounding Epstein’s death? There is no doubt that the Times (and the American media as a whole) would be denouncing claims of suicide and declaring Vladimir Putin the murderer.
“This is not a matter of speculation. It has already happened, in the dubious media campaign over the death of Sergei Magnitsky in a Russian prison, as well as the propaganda blitz over the alleged poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in England…”
and not without good cause.
And what good cause would that be HWB?
I think posters within the OFFG community, have the measure of you.
Really? I would characterise their output as ‘poor opinion, badly expressed’
The “good cause” being that you already know it all in advance. Never mind evidence. Bloody Russians!
But there is evidence — a KGB man was found wandering in Manhattan,
unaware thar the Cold War is over. And then there’s the Professor and
Putin’s niece ———-.
The Bonney Prince goes for the record!
The so called “fringe left” also think the Clintons are involved too and that trumps role in this is minuscule compared to Bills and Hillary’s
Yes, that’s a conspiracy in itself.
The “fringe left” doesn’t care who is ‘more guilty’ but rather hopes it somehow brings them all down… while also realizing how vanishingly unlikely it is that any real power will be affected.
Ahh, the grand old Guardian, where conspiracies are always the plots and paranoia of others.
Funny, that.
More gold from Kit! Thanks as always.
I’m sorry, but how can an inmate face “startling neglect” when he is on suicide watch?
Nothing’s stopping Bill Barr from demanding the timely extradition of Ghislaine Maxwell–least of all us conspiracy theorists!
Hey, listen… this stuff happens; what can I say? You’re pacing about your 8′ high, finished concrete cell, reevaluating your relationships with foreign intelligence agencies, oligarchs and heads of state. It’s night and you’re all alone, aside from some murdering cop with arms bigger than a big dude’s entire torso. You slip or get distracted by the terrifies squealing, your neck gets caught in your tighty-whiteys and your world renowned, anarchist/ leftist dissident, newspaper turns into just another sneering mouthpiece for a neoliberal consensus tag-team kleptocracy. You gag, choke on something being rammed down your throat?
I’m so glad for that breath of sanity. Just like on 9/11. Most people don’t understand how easy it is for high rise buildings to fall. All you have to do is lean on them at a certain point. Happens all the time – but they don’t tell you about it ’cause that would have adverse effects on the property market. Same with plane high-jacking. That happens at least twice a month. Sometimes even kids can highjack. And anyone can fly. All that stuff about having to be trained is just a con to keep the flight schools in business.
A curious world in which Clinton-a leading proponent of the Third Way imperialist, anti working class politics of globalist capitalism is said to be a ‘leftist’ and Donald Trump, politically almost indistinguishable he polar opposite.
But then The Guardian thinks that Blair, Mandelson and Tom Watson, the lesser, are ‘leftists’ too.
And then there is the idea that something called justice is a reward for victims- a spectacle of public humiliation and punishment- which Epstein’s premature death in a prison cell deprives them of enjoying.
The truth is that whether or not Epstein was guilty of any of the things with which he appears to have been charged could only be established by a system of courts which included fair trials, presumed innocence and officers-not to say a society- interested in justice.
It is a matter of notoriety that the United States has none of these. And, as the merest glimpse in the direction of Belmarsh will indicate, neither does the UK.
Earlier today I read an article, in an internet daily, in which paying a seventeen year old girl $300 for a massage was described as pedophilia and masturbating in her presence was called rape.
The commodification of sex, economic grand canyons of inequality, the emergence of an aristocracy organised around the accumulation of wealth by exploiting others, and masses inheriting impotence, poverty, insecurity and diminishing living standards…these are the real issues in a story being presented as one in which justice, in the shape of a swingeing sentence for the financier, came close to being delivered.
It didn’t: Epstein could have been torn to bloody shreds by a lynch mob headed by Gloria Steinem and Kamala Harris, waving copies of the Ninth Commandment, and nothing would have changed beyond the registering of yet another small but significant diminution in individual rights and a reaffirmation of the timeless principle that you can get away with anything in this society, just so long as you maintain a solemn and puritanical mien in the performance. And turn the lights off.
In the world of the media and much of our idiot society if it’s the opposite of the other then one is left or right wing to the other even if everyone involved was a communist
This shows The Guardian is doing a good job, in line with their directives. This is what they are paid for.
Expecting objectivity and truth from MSM is like expecting cantaloupes from an apple tree.
“official narrative(…) that of complete, systemic incompetence”….an old weapon, the same used in 9/11…They have 5 eyes but all were blind, they have fighter jets but none were available that day, they have radars but all missed the planes…..they had everything but nothing worked…is like they live in the world of Murphy’s laws….
You dont know if you should laugh, cry or scream…..
I think you should insist that they leave office – perhaps insisting with extreme prejudice would be worth a try ?
Everybody who had an interest in seeing Epstein dead – form an orderly queue to the right. All right! All right! Don’t push! Don’t shove! There’s enough room for everybody! Just carry on into the car park and down the road! Okay, how many are there? 867? Oh no, there are more arriving now. All right. Better try something else. Who DIDN’T have an interest in seeing Epstein dead? That’s better. That’s more like it.
Itsa’ full moon today and looking up, I can see the ‘Q’ already and it’s not even 12:29 EET, yet !
As usual; thanks for reading this nonsense so that I don’t have to!
I really am struggling to work out the point of your comment…or indeed why you’re commenting at all. If you think it’s all bollocks that’s fine by me…but you really, really aren’t forced to be here, let alone be here not reading it but still commenting.
Wazdo is thanking the author of this article for reading the Guardian articles and synthesizing them here so he doesn’t have to bother reading them himself.
Silly me! In future, for the benefit of us old people perhaps ‘As usual, Kim, thanks for reading this nonsense…’?! Perhaps I’d best get back to The Sun!
Cripes, don’t do that!
I’ll fight the urge. I genuinely thought Wazdo (to whom I apologise unreservedly) was a troll ‘thanking’ the OffG readership etc. I may have been distracted by the footie…and enraged by exceeding my 2 units of Bulgarian red! I’m better now…
Phew!
But of course we all land in that from time to time.
Ever since text messages and FaceBook came into our lives, there has always been the danger of misunderstanding the “tone” of someone’s comment, assuming sarcasm where none was intended, or taking seriously something which was intended to be light-hearted or humorous.
I haven’t tried Bulgarian red. Recommended?
I have, Loool, what a lovely wee exchange this whole conversation was, as an aside in every sense Wardropper, lessons for everybody 🙂 and thanks for bringing it all to a balanced close.
Greetings to all,
Tim