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Discuss: Epstein Death – Autopsy Results Announced

The New York Medical Examiner has announced their findings – Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide by hanging.

The stated evidence, so far, is “multiple breaks in his neckbones”, which is fairly uninformative without knowing a) which bones or b) the nature of the breaks.

Assuming any bones were broken at all, of course, there is always the possibility the entire report is a fiction. It wouldn’t be the first time.

The announcement that he hanged himself ends all the speculation about what the “official narrative” will be. Having danced around the idea of blaming Trump, or even Putin, the establishment has gone down the path of least resistance. There is even the faintest possibility it’s actually true. Just about.

The finding doesn’t eliminate all the unanswered questions and actually raises some new ones.

We still don’t know the story behind Epstein’s alleged suicide attempt last month.

We still don’t know why he was apparently taken off suicide watch.

We still don’t know why his cellmate was moved.

We don’t know why a veteran medical examiner needed a full week to return a verdict of “suicide by hanging”, when the victim was presumably found hanging by his neck in his cell.

We don’t really know anything. Just that he’s allegedly dead, and he supposedly did it to himself.

As with most suicide findings, the press will be keen for this to be the end of the discussion. That doesn’t seem likely.

Feel free to add any useful sources of additional information in the comments. Copy and paste content if possible as certain narratives can tend to be wiped from the web over time

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surferdave
surferdave

I would have thought there needs to be a significant drop in order to gain enough momentum to cause breakage of the bones, and that seems unlikely inside a prison cell. Strangulation, sure, but not broken bones. I can only picture the hitman twisting the neck as the most likely way the bones were broke.

mark
mark

It seems obvious that Epstein was murdered, but in reality this is just a side issue.
The MSM will happily carry on sending people down rabbit holes for ever, and ignoring the real questions.
They would like nothing more than to turn this into another JFK, where people speculate endlessly, generating more heat than light.

Just what motivated Epstein?
Money? Vice? Paedo sex? Spying and blackmailing for Israel? All of the above?

Where did his loyalties lie?
Was he just a hired hand, an intelligence operative, another Christopher Steele? Or was he more of a gun for hire, an Erik Prince, serving Mossad, the CIA, the Zionist Lobby, or whoever would pay him? Or was he more of his own boss, running his own organisation in his own interests?

What about Ghislaine Maxwell?
Was she just Epstein’s pimp and loyal lieutenant, carrying out his orders? Or was she his Mossad handler, calling the shots, with Epstein as front man?

The best way to get at some semblance of the truth is to follow the money.
Epstein seems to have appeared virtually out of nowhere as a made man.
Wexner appears to have gifted him a $56 million heavily bugged mansion.
What does this tell us?

Surprisingly, Maxwell has not gone to ground as expected.
She made an exhibition of herself in LA a few days ago, ostentatiously eating a burger in public with a little dog in tow, reading a book about the CIA.

I think the stage is being set for an Oprah or Anderson Cooper style interview, presenting herself as the victim. Now that Epstein is dead, it will be in the interests of a lot of people to load everything on to his deceased shoulders. “I loved Jeffrey……….but he was a monster……..he made me do terrible things……..I was frightened of him……..I’m a victim too.”

This will probably be coordinated with a smear campaign against the victims, trying to dig up dirt about things like drugs, any criminal or mental health history, and any other issues.

One interesting detail to emerge from the search of Epstein’s property is that he had a painting of Bill Clinton in drag, wearing a blue dress, like that of Monica Lewinsky, on his toilet wall. This is probably a case of gloating over the entrapment of Clinton. This somewhat grubby little episode occurred around the time of the Oslo peace deal, when Peres, Barak and Co. were under some pressure to negotiate seriously with the Palestinians, and facing criticism over settlements. Clinton was also under pressure from Zionist interests to release the Jewish/ Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, imprisoned for treason/ espionage. This is reminiscent of the transvestite J. Edgar Hoover, who was being blackmailed by Meyer Lansky with photographs of him and Claude Tolson wearing dresses.

Dershowitz is another highly dubious character whose involvement warrants serious scrutiny. He previously defended OJ Simson and Spectre. He will probably spearhead a campaign to discredit the witnesses.

Fortunately, this can’t be buried completely, even if Maxwell and others escape prosecution. There are a number of outstanding civil claims which will generate even more publicity than would otherwise be the case.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“Surprisingly, Maxwell has not gone to ground as expected.
She made an exhibition of herself in LA a few days ago, ostentatiously eating a burger in public with a little dog in tow, reading a book about the CIA.”

I heard that she switched the burger for the dog and all that was left to go on was a book about the CIA with Rottweiler paw prints all over it.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

And a burger, out cold on the floor.

Wazdo
Wazdo

I will not believe JE suicided until an independent doctor and physicist shows me, in the cell that whatever it was took place, the materiel with which he hung himself, the fixings to which he attatched the material and that the length of his fall was sufficient to kill him.

Monobazeus
Monobazeus

Not dead. Is now having plastic surgery and then it is off to Patagonia or similar. Face was in no way red enough given the violence said to be evident re thorax and bones. No video. Some testimony to effect no one entered his cell just before or just after estimated time of death. That is an evasive explanation.

Not dead. Holidaying.

ttshasta
ttshasta

Suicide or murder, both are hallmarks of the federal witness protection program.
In 21 years no prisoner has committed suicide at MCC.
We never saw post mortem photos of McVeigh or Bin Laden, yet NY Post shows a photo of FDNY transporting Epstein on a gurney; except the ear and nose do not match JE.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“NY Post shows a photo of FDNY transporting Epstein on a gurney; except the ear and nose do not match JE.”

Guessing you haven’t seen many cold corpses?

Jen
Jen

What we really should be asking is why the MSM is over eager to conclude that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide and to force everyone to “move along, nothing more to see” even before the autopsy results (most certainly rushed and the announcement doctored to fit the press narrative) were released. Especially as the ones leading that charge are the New York Times (crawling with CIA operatives) and the Guardian (whose deputy editor Paul Johnston had been on an MI5 committee not so long ago).

RobG

Epstein’s death is a bit like the collapse of building 7 on 9th September 2001.

I wonder, upon finding Epstein’s body, if anyone rang 911? (for those in other parts of the world who might not know, 911 is the emergency telephone number in the United States).

9/11?! it’s all so bloody obvious, yet the majority of people still don’t seem to get it.

RobG

Whoops, I meant 11th September (I’ve never got used to the ridiculous way that Americans do dates).

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“(I’ve never got used to the ridiculous way that Americans do dates).

(Snap. I’ve never got used to the crap way crap heads do numercrapology.)

Boot Hill
Boot Hill

Its should be clear that the Medical Examiner would never under any circumstances declare that Epstein’s death was due to murder. This would then require further investigation by the State. So even with broken bones in the neck suggesting at the very least a pretty rough death, it was always going to be a suicide. The same as if somebody shot themselves twice in the back of the head. Its the American way.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn

The most interesting things I’ve read ( not an expert so don’t quote me on it ) was that after Epstein left/got thrown out of Bear Sterns he started a company managing other peoples asset portfolios.

The story goes that he influenced many millionaire/billionaires to give him complete control over those assets.

Why would already rich men ( they are all men ) hand over complete legal control to a guy who was allegedly good at maths but not good enough for Bear Sterns?

There has got be something at work there and I suspect the US Authorities are not starting at the beginning only interested in the more salacious stuff.

It may be that Epstein had something on these business men in the first place in order to get control of their assets.

Salacity may be involved there maybe at the start.

mark
mark

Epstein didn’t have the staff or organisational infrastructure to run an investment fund or hedge fund.
He may have taken in money and invested it in simple tracker funds, raking off a big “management fee” for himself.
If so, it seems clear this was a disguised way of paying blackmail money, a form of money laundering.

Steve Hayes

It may be that Trump retweeting a suggestion that the Clintons might have been involved in Epstein’s death provided more impetus to persuade the authorities to determine definitively that Epstein had committed suicide. The Medical Examiner’s decision enables CNN et al to push the narrative that Trump is a conspiracy theorist and thus is unfit to hold office.

LeRuscino
LeRuscino

Epstein is alive & well ? Make no mistake & the skeletons will stay hidden.

Barovsky

Surely the most important issue is not how he died (or even if he actually did) but people who he did ‘business’ with, the ‘great and the good’. The rest is just a massive diversion and of course, everybody goes apeshit over the nature of his death and that was the intention.

mark
mark

Everybody in his little black book, Acosta and the Clintons, and our very own Prince Randy Andy, should be required to testify on oath – then given polygraphs.

Barovsky

Yes, but will it happen? Can you see these gangster capitalists prosecuting their own? Prince Andrew for example. Surely it’s why Epstein was silenced in the first place. And what of the ‘little black book’? So Epstein knew a lot of very rich and influential people which proves, what?

These are the people who think nothing of exterminating mostly brown people in the millions, you think they’re bothered about a few pedos and some jetset hookers? Wasn’t it Prince Andrew who got caught out wearing a Nazi uniform at some party? No, it was another hooray henry, Prince Harry. There’s something seriously awry with the Windsors, maybe it ‘s all that inbreeding.

flaxgirl

Just as we’ll never know what happened to Barbara Olson and all the other living alleged passengers (some were, no doubt, made up or already dead) on the four flights that didn’t crash (or, in two cases, even take off) on 9/11, we’ll never know whether Jeffrey breathes still or was murdered or suicided – as far as the media is concerned he is no longer and we won’t see hide nor hair of him again. The truth about what happened to him will never be published just as it hasn’t been (and never will be) for those living people who didn’t die in plane crashes on 9/11 … and so very many other people alleged to have died.

flaxgirl

I take it back. We do know what happened to alleged victim, Michaela Dunn, of the crazed CBD knifer, Mert Ney. Precisely nothing. She is alive and well and working as the Commissioner at Essex County Commission on the Status of Women. See her on FB – https://www.facebook.com/michaela.dunn.5 – Doncha love it? They didn’t even change her name.

Best music-matcher in the staged-event analysis business, Woodrow Wobbles, has done a lovely video to Don’t It Make Your Brown Eyes Blue that shows how Mort must have managed to slip in blue-tinted contact lenses between his crazed knifing and being pinned down under a milk-crate. Watch it while you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBzzaKE6hVE

flaxgirl

Sorry, Mert, not Mort but isn’t it interesting how Mert Ney resembles mort-né, the term for stillborn in French. They love their names.

Jean Miller
Jean Miller

“Phoney neck bone of contention”, a perfect control of the narrative that Epstein really is dead, no matter how . Frankly, the way Rudy Giuliani was rattling on about his death as one of three options, suicide, revenge murder by cellmate or silencing murder by enemy, plus the gross incompetence involved etc etc makes me think of the phrase “trying to hard”.

Francesca
Francesca

Judicial hangings were/are designed to snap the neck bones, causing death to come quickly .That is why the victims body weight, slackness of rope, height of drop are carefully calibrated .
Some judicial hangings don’t end with a broken neck
Suicide hangings are one thing….if the suicide has the choice, they can leap or kick off from a height, and access a rope Even this does not always end in neck snapping and pretty instant death, but asphyxiation .People generally don’t have the physics at their fingertips.
Jail suicides are another , and most often end in aspyxiation .There just isn’t the height , or the ligature .

“Zhongxue Hua, the Bergen County medical examiner in New Jersey, said a neck fracture was atypical in a suicide but warned not to jump to conclusions.

“It’s unusual to have a neck fracture,” Hua said. “But the first question to address is when did it occur.

“If Epstein’s neck fracture was fresh, Hua said, then “at a minimum, it’s a very unusual suicide.”

https://www.france24.com/en/20190816-usa-jeffrey-epstein-autopsy-neck-fractures-forensic-expert-suicide-sex-trafficking
I’d be very interested to view the autopsies of a decent number of jail suicides . I’d bet that broken neck bones don’t show up very often .Unless of course there’s an assistant who brings downward pressure on the body while its tight in its noose.
A broken neck is a quick death, strangulation or asphyxiation leaves tell tale signs such as blood shot eyes and burst capillaries
Even if this was the freakiest suicide, the “coincidences ” surrounding it are not convincing for such a high profile prisoner

mark
mark

Hanging can take the head off completely.
That’s what happened to Saddam Hussein.
It causes unconsciousness in between 8-12 seconds.i

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

The finding doesn’t eliminate all the unanswered questions and actually raises some new ones.

That is the intended goal. People are given a ‘truth’ that doesn’t ring true. The truth however is, that:
You can bribe, or blackmail a lot of people sometimes – but you can’t bribe, or blackmail all of the people all of the time.

In that lies the possibility that the truth will be revealed at some point.

Take also note that Epstein’s Madam was allegedly photographed at a Burger joint in L.A. (RT)

A citizen’s arrest did not take place. Why?

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

It is only hearsay at the moment, hearsay and stories but not enough meat in my view to detain a person. Why are the authorities not making a move to question her?

The system has so many ways and means. Did my brother die from suicide in 2008 or did the new landlord initiate the first of two fires so the tradies could come in on time? Was Berlin police even interested? 23/24th June 2008, Roland Gurski, Ansbacher Str 61, Berlin. My late brother could have afforded relocation if the Kohl-Regime had not stolen our assets. The crooks have a way of getting away with theft and murder.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

Given the main crimes, Maxwell was engaged in sex trafficking of minor girls to rich and powerful ‘minorphiles’ (my creation). Unless the trafficking of underage girls is no longer a crime, Maxwell is of course a free woman. However, there are enough substantial allegations of committed crimes by her partner Epstein and herself, that warrant her arrest to prevent her from disappearing.
And while it is off topic, yes, Kohl should have spent the rest of his life in prison. For treason and embezzlement. He was protected by the U.S. and answering only the occupation force. Just like Merkel. Another question has to be, how many Germans were involved in Epstein’s underage sex trafficking operations?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“Did my brother die from suicide in 2008 or did the new landlord initiate the first of two fires so the tradies could come in on time?”

Sorry to hear that.

FWIW, based on a personal but far less traumatic experience, I would be easily persuaded of the latter: that he was the victim of both the same old same old what are, effectively, regular, everday conspiracies of governments everywhere, all the time, and the regular, everday conspiracies of multitudes of ordinary citizens everywhere seeking material gain from the exploitation of others, regardless of the cost, in everything from the modern slave trade to the destruction and even the careless taking of the lives of hapless “collateral damage” like your brother.

Many decades ago some colleagues and I hired a commercial venue in the UK for a little promotion of a new product we had developed and wanted to get into some editorial columns (editorial is still a far more cost-effective route to publicity than paid advertising). When we started cleaning up the sort of debris we were required not to leave around after the invited journalists and others had left, the manager asked us to be absolutely sure we had taken everything of any value before we ourselves left. Oh, and not to bother about any excessive mess the drinkies and catering for the journos had caused, despite the terms of the hire agreement. When we got to the door with our overhead projectors and whiteboards and leftover brochures, etc., he again approached us to ask if we were absolutely sure there was nothing we wanted left behind. We assured him there wasn’t but that we’d call if we found that there was. He replied that, as there were no bookings in the following days, everyone would be out of the office for a while. The next day the papers reported that the place had been completely burnt out overnight, probably a result of an unstubbed cigarette left by an attendee at the previous evening’s event causing a slow fire in some soft furnishings, or something similar. That was the last we heard about it. No calls from the fire brigade, no enquiries from the police, no visits from any insurance adjusters, nothing. Strange? Maybe. Just another “victimless” happening that probably raised a lot of insurance premiums a little more in the following financial year than would otherwise have been the case; maybe one of a small business owner hitting the last straw before having to “let” a financially stretched single parent go and suchlike: who knows? A few months later the newly refurbished, £2 million (then a lot of money) upgraded venue reopened for another round of business as usual.

“My late brother could have afforded relocation if the Kohl-Regime had not stolen our assets. The crooks have a way of getting away with theft and murder.”

In multiple other ways I have found many less obvious everyday conspiracy and corruption in all forms of national and local government, commerce, law: you name the field, there it is. Many more than one “important official”, bigtime lawyer or banker of solid ethical values has given me a funny handshake or made a heavily veiled or out-of-context remark 0n the virtues of conspiratorial collusion.

Conspiracy and its twin, corruption, is such an endemic, everday occurrence in everyone’s life that only those that have a serious, systemic impact on a large number of people are worth widespread attention and serious citizen investigation as “conspiracy theories”. Our high school class even engaged in one that caused a sensitive, aging music teacher to retire early with a nervous breakdown for, as far as I could discern, no reason other than his sensitivity and age made him an easy target for a practice run of everyday loutish, youthful testosterone-fuelled harrassment. Learning for the realities of after school life. What did the headmaster do about it? Uttered a barely audible “tut, tut”.

The incidence of collusion, conspiracy and corruption is so widespread that it’s up to us to tackle the lesser incidents within our individual communities and workplaces with such local noise and determination that the ruckus can be heard even in the corridors of ever more overarching power. If we can find a way to do even just that.

MLS
MLS

“Jeffrey Epstein’s Death Was On 4Chan Before Officials Announced It — And Authorities Had To Look Into It”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/fdny-review-jeffrey-epstein-4chan-post

KneelB4Zod

It’s a distraction. Watch anything but Epstein hoax.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

No – you are a system defender.

If Epstein did indeed live this lifestyle from ‘intelligence’, as Acosta was told, then he feathered his nest with money from Mary & Joe Taxpayer.

Intelligence money. whether from US, UK, Australia, France, Israel, or Britain is taxpayer money. Epstein had plenty of money. If only half of it was from intelligence/taxpayer – what benefit did the taxpayers get?

Asterix
Asterix

About his previous murky injury:

“Jeffrey Epstein found injured with marks on his neck in New York jail cell, sources say”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/jeffrey-epstein-found-injured-marks-his-neck-new-york-jail-n1034301

Jeffrey Epstein, the millionaire financier who is being held on federal sex trafficking charges, was found injured and in a fetal position in his cell at a New York City jail, sources close to the investigation told NBC News on Wednesday night.

Epstein, 66, was found semiconscious with marks on his neck in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan some time in the last two days, the sources said. Epstein is on suicide watch, two sources said.

While the two sources said that Epstein may have tried to hang himself, a third source cautioned that the injuries weren’t serious, questioning whether Epstein might have staged an attack or a suicide attempt to get a transfer to another facility.

Another source said that an assault hadn’t been ruled out and that another inmate in Epstein’s unit, identified by sources as Nicholas Tartaglione, had been questioned. Sources also said Epstein and Tartaglione were cell mates.

Bootlyboob
Bootlyboob

I wonder what the 2 hour visit by a ‘young, beautiful woman’ just before his ‘suicide’ was all about?

Asterix
Asterix

Posting this for the record – apparently the hyoid bone rarely breaks during hanging, but Epstein’s hyoid bone was broken

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/08/15/mystery-surrounds-hyoid-break-epstein-death-suicide-murder/2017579001/

William HBonney

apparently the hyoid bone rarely breaks during hanging, but Epstein’s hyoid bone was broken

Bloody hell, Quincy M. E. has shown up to comment.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

M.E. Thomas – “Confessions of a Sociopath ”

That sir, is the M.E. you need to study, you poor weak minded parasitic Troll 😉

Admin
Admin
Admin

You’ve been asked not to feed the troll. I’m going to close this thread to lessen the temptation to keep on sniping.

flaxgirl

You mean, Epstein’s hyoid bone was reportedly broken – “reportedly broken” and “broken” are not one and the same thing.