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Trump-Zelensky-Ukraine: What is really going on here?

Tony Kevin

I have over several days reflected on the official White House record (also embedded below) of the Trump-Zelensky conversation on Ukraine-US relations on 25 July 2019, a conversation held soon after Zelensky’s confirmed election victory, and declassified by Trump’s presidential order of 24 September 2019.

I have also been reflecting on the more recent Democratic Party decision to explore possibilities for impeachment of Trump, a decision fortified by the so-called ‘CIA whistleblower’ and his/her rather unimpressive revelations.

Here is my hypothesis of what may be going on here. As always, it is a complex mixture of domestic US politics, and Trump’s and Zelensky’s foreign policy goals. And a footnote follows on Downer.

Let’s start with the foreign policy goals.  Both Trump and Zelensky are operating in highly constrained and threatening foreign policy environments at home.  At the time of their phonecall, Trump still had the warmonger Bolton to deal with inside the house: and even now he is still under the watchful scrutiny of the Russophobe imperial state figure of his Secretary of State Pompeo, closely though undeclaredly linked to the Washington imperial party on Ukraine-Russia as on other East-West issues.

Zelensky is similarly constrained and threatened in Kiev by the anti-Russian fanaticism that has been indoctrinated in large sections of the Ukrainian population by decades of nationalist, often neo-Nazi, Russophobe propaganda.

It is a tribute to the instinctive good sense of the Ukrainian electorate that Zelensky was able to defeat in the polls the discredited NATO stooge Poroshenko so comprehensively and decisively. The maturity of this vote gives me renewed hope for Ukraine.  But there is a long way to go still towards political normalisation and economic recovery there.

Zelensky is smart enough to see that his country must achieve a normalisation of relations with Russia, but knows that he cannot yet say this openly.  Putin wants this also, very much. But both men know it will take a very long time after the accumulated bitter grievances on both sides over recent decades, and especially since the lethal and destructive civil war on Eastern Ukraine that was begun by Poroshenko in April 2014 – no doubt on American advice.

This war has had terrible human consequences: loss of life, wounded and disabled casualties, destroyed communities, massive forced refugee outflows.  Neither side can get over this easily or quickly.

The reciprocal prisoner release on 7 September was an essential symbolic action. Putin’s release of the navy crews who took part in the provocative and foolish Ukrainian raid on the Kerch Strait bridge a year ago was a key part of building Ukrainian confidence and trust in Zelensky’s leadership.

Russophobes in the West are in consternation at new green shots of possible hope for progress towards Kiev-Moscow normalisation under the Normandy diplomacy format.

They are desperate to derail this hope, by proposing impossible conditions for normalisation: in particular that any self-determination elections for Donbass (while remaining within  sovereign Ukraine) could only be held under an ‘internationally supervised’ election and with ‘international peacekeepers’ in charge.

See for example this recent piece by a European analyst, Gustav Gressel. East Ukrainians rightly see such a formula as a sure recipe for US infiltration and black regime change operations in Donbass. So it will not happen.

As I interpret the Trump-Zelensky conversation, both leaders were cautiously but in a friendly way exploring the boundaries of what might be possible for each of them as presidents to revisit the troubled history of the past few years.  I see nothing dishonourable or intimidating in this conversation. Trump critics are reading into it only what they want to read.

Here I turn to the US domestic politics aspect.

Trump is still bitterly opposed by the US imperial state represented by people like Biden, Clinton, Bolton and McFaul  (and increasingly, I suspect, by Obama), but also the FBI-CIA national security dissident faction represented by people like Brennan, Comey and Clapper. These people have learned nothing from the embarrassing failure of the Mueller investigation to prove the false Russiagate allegations.

They are keen still to bring Trump down by whatever possible means.

They see the threat to the credibility of their cause if Trump and Zelensky should together succeed in finding evidence of Ukrainian underpinnings of the 2016-17 Russiagate conspiracy against Trump.  They are desperate to have a last bash at Trump before he might finally expose any such improprieties, through evidence from Ukraine (or, for that matter, Australia – see below).

They were powerful enough in the Democratic Party to finally overcome the experienced Nancy Pelosi’s prudent and well-founded resistance to their plans. She knows that this impeachment process could destroy any Democratic Party hopes for power next year.

But these fanatics are ready to go for broke, in their rage and despair against Trump. The ‘CIA whistleblower’ , whoever he or she may be, is their last desperate throw.

The pathetic, compromised figure of Joe Biden, with his damning Ukrainian nationalist connections, is their unlikely standard-bearer. Elizabeth Warren is a possible backstop.

For these folk, either Sanders or Gabbard would be a disaster as a candidate – because neither shares the imperial agenda, and both are morally strong enough to resist it.

Nancy Pelosi and Tulsi Gabbard know the realities. I suspect Bernie Sanders does too, but is awaiting his moment to speak out on this.

The US liberal print media led by the New York Times and Washington Post, and more sympathetic networks like MSNBC and CNN, are trying to keep the impeachment fire alive. Other networks like FoxNews are standing back from it more sceptically.

I predict – analytically –  that Trump will survive this latest impeachment wave and come out even stronger for the 2020 election as a result. His indignant base will be energised to vote in strategically important numbers sufficient to regain for him the US presidency for four more years.

This is good news for prospects for peace between Ukraine and Russia, however problematical it may be in other areas of the world diplomatic arena (and I am no supporter of Trump).

But I do not expect early miracles in Ukraine, rather a slow normalisation and contact-building process between these two closely related nations.

* * *

And a late footnote on Trump, Morrison and Downer: with exquisite timing, Trump has now put the acid on Morrison to give his Attorney-General Barr access to Australian intelligence files on Downer’s alleged attempt to collect intelligence from, and possibly incriminate, George Papadopoulos in their alleged wine rooms encounter in London, while Downer was still Australian High Commissioner.

It would seem, according to the allegations, that Downer was trying to collect intelligence to support the Russiagate allegations against Trump.

Morrison is now between a rock and a hard place. He cannot reject Trump’s request outright. (As Australian Labor figures are thoughtlessly urging him to do). But nor can he pursue Trump’s request enthusiastically enough to expose any alleged anti-Trump secret activities of Australian intelligence agencies, who were under pressure at the time from visiting figures in the US FBI and intelligence world – Comey, Clapper and Brennan – to help them build the Russiagate case against Trump in the first year of his presidency.

A Five-Eyes operational dilemma indeed, that will test Morrison’s loyalties.

Tony Kevin, former Australian ambassador and author of Return to Moscow, UWA Publishing 2017
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Thank you for sharing. Your blog post is interesting and informative. I think many people like it and visit it often, including me.
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Jerry Alatalo

It is remarkable and noteworthy that Bush-Cheney Intelligence chief on 9/11 Joseph Cofer Black sits on the Board of Directors of Burisma Holdings-Ukraine, – but for whatever reason(s) nobody on Earth is reporting on it. “Too hot to handle”, too dangerous for anyone thinking of confronting “ultimate power”, perhaps?

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Good comment, Jerry: and it is the “perhaps”, that keeps the Political Soap media bubbling & foaming at the mouth, on the verge of the precipice, before mentioning WTC7 …

It would appear that Trump wants to focus on ‘Swamp Stuff’, that Attorney Generals can make stick in a court of law, however, the big question is really, will he go after Cheney & Co. who ‘disappeared’ the missing $$$Trillions$$$ and attempt to reveal the obvious, regarding the Enron GEC & Monsanto SEC investigation in WTC7 and climate/weather engineering, to boot.

The Chinese are quite happy to discuss publicly Lockheed Martin’s assistance in engineering the weather for the 2008 Beijing Olympics, while 5iFUKUS nations tender the ‘F-all wise’ Greta Thunberg, with less convincing and less scientific criteria, endeavouring to launch the blame on us mere mortals, without military culpability …
When the reality is that the military are the biggest polluters, specifically U$A Military industrial complex obviously the biggest polluter, but not alone and not solely responsible for the increases in severe extreme weather events: having built a whole new Greenhouse with artificial ionospheric mirrors / solar reflectors and with HAARP to warm & warp the shape of our one and only Magnetosphere. Trump is tough to ‘read’, but the very fact that he hardly ever mentions these matters is potentially positive and his lawyer Rudi, was also there on 11/9/2001 :- it is wholly feasible that Trump & Cheney are neither friends, nor respect one another … which, if true, Trump would be wise not to discuss, publicly presently,
“perhaps” …

mark
mark

The Bandera Ukies thought the streets of the EU were paved with gold.
Maybe they should have checked that out with the Greeks first.
Banderastan is now a shitty little Nazi failed state with an income per head on the same level as Egypt.
Let them stew in their own juice.
And let the Neocons in Washington and Brussels pay for it.

The Democrats and all the subversive treasonous spooks and dirty cops have learnt nothing.
They persist in charging down Russiagate and Impeachment rabbit holes instead of finding credible candidates with sensible policies that resonate with the population at large.
They will lose again by default.
The Big Bad Orange Man will get another 4 years, leading to an even more extreme outbreak of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

I agree with you, except on one crucial point: you assume that most Ukrainians (outside of Galicia-Volhyn, I mean) actually wanted a coup back in 2014, but there is no evidence of that at all. Their current, pitiful state of affairs was largely forced on them by powers beyond their control.

eddie
eddie

Maidan’s largest protests were 200,000, or about 10% of the population of Kiev..
Except many of those 200,000 were from outlying provinces; mostly Galicia..
Bussed in to participate, paid by whom?
So, 200,000 out of a (then) population of 45 million isn’t much of a mandate, is it?
We can only stand back and wonder how such events can occur in the 21st century..

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

Why could he not reject Trump’s request? A request can always have two outcomes, yes or no. Otherwise use the correct word, order or dictate. Trump may be able to order the intelligence from Morrison and that should then be as clear as mud.

Downer is the real foreign meddler in the elections. He should have said ‘that is not an Australian matter’ when one American (Papadopoulos) says Russia has dirt on another American (H. Clinton). But he met with that guy and reported the conversation – why? Did he want to help Hillary Clinton?

Taking sides and taking action = meddling.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

This charade has gone on quite long enough, with stupid Hollywood names like Operations Charlemagne & Crossfire Hurricane and the HillBilly Clinton Clan and their Deep State Crew, don’t you think ?
It’s childish and criminally so: so, Kim Dotcom has decided, to speak openly, particularly regarding Julian Assange & Seth Rich >>> aligned with Bill Binney, what the hell more do we need to know …

We cannot permit such matters to be ‘decided’, behind closed doors, in intelligent futures brighter !

State Business is exactly that and does not belong on private servers.
Judgement was simple. Everything is rigged. Laws must change.
Before discussing Google & Co. & Platforms & Publishers,
we must consider & discuss scientifically, coordinates & heading,
with censored intel. ? ! Listen to Kim . . .

Jo
Jo

I’m grateful for this article. It’s hugely informative.

Ben Trovata
Ben Trovata

I agree with this:”These people have learned nothing from the embarrassing failure of the Mueller investigation…” However,after the rape-murder-burnings in Odessa,I don’t see the people of Donetsk and Luhansk having anything to do with the vile regime.

Where to?
Where to?

“operational dilemma”

It wouldn’t be a dilemma when it comes to how low the lowlife criminal Australian politicians will need to stoop. To call them dogs or pigs, it would be an insult to dogs and pigs.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

I would like to write an article to be submitted for publication on OFF-G if possible. What email address does a writer need to address in order to send an article over for submission to the OFF-G editorial staff?

thanks in advance.

MOU

nwwoods
nwwoods
milosevic
milosevic

proposed title: “A Day in the Life of a CIA Disinfo Troll”

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

If I was a CIA Disinformation IO I would be making minimum wage like you, Milosevic.

And if I was a disinfo IO working for the CIA’s Bloody Gina et al. I would be demanding better pay and paycheques that actually arrive in my mailbox or bank account.

I cannot afford to live on minimum wage like you, Milosevic.

MOU

Jen
Jen

Instead you support an organisation and people who lionise a Canadian foreign minister who lied about having met and spoken with Vladimir Putin when she hadn’t and who lied about her maternal grandfather having been a refugee fleeing Nazi German persecution when in fact he had collaborated with the Nazis as a propagandist and the Polish government had a warrant for his arrest.

Berlin beerman
Berlin beerman

Sounds to me that we have some serious misdirection going on – to perhaps deflect pre-election “conversations” sprouting up around Mr.Biden and his offspring.

Sure Trump will survive this ” impeachment” rattle, but is all gives the MSM some wiggle room to deflect attention away from Biden, should it come up during election time …. in the meantime if it helps destabilize Zelensky at the same time, then a little collateral damage in that direction never hurts.

Lets see what video we get of Biden – soon to be released – should be a good one.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

My appreciation for this article. In today’s fake world, every article that scratches at the official narrative has to be lauded.

prag·ma·tism (prăg′mə-tĭz′əm)
n.
1. Philosophy A movement consisting of varying but associated theories, originally developed by Charles S. Peirce and William James and distinguished by the doctrine that the meaning or truth value of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences.
2. A practical, matter-of-fact way of approaching or assessing situations or of solving problems.

(The Free Dictionary)

It is 2., that I personally view as one of the greatest traits a human being can muster, or achieve. The benefits of pragmatism became apparent to me, because I lived with a pragmatist for many years. It was a transformational experience.

The most important aspect of this ‘situation’, ‘scandal’, or ‘affair’ (based on viewpoint) can best be described with an old tale about perception that a number of you might know. At the center of the story, a King that wants to find out the truth is advised by a sage to send three blind men to go outside, where there is an animal (Elephant), to order them to inspect the animal, discover its characteristics and to report back to the King regarding their findings.

Each of the blind men reports what he had found out about the animal. The first one stated that “It is very big, sail like skin flaps.” The second one said “No, it is some sort of a wiggly hairy snake without a head.” Finally, the third one points out “No, no, no. Neither one of those. It is like a tree trunk with pepples at the bottom and very tall.”

Now, if you substitute the King with the electorate and the blind men with the ‘journalists’ of the MSM, it becomes clear that this King will never find out the truth – even though the blind journalists described what they perceived based on their knowledge. While that might be a funny analogy, the implications for the electorate are devastating. A confused King that has no idea whom he shall entrust the business of his country.

The electorate has chosen a manager for its Nation in 2016, that is like the three blind men. What he perceives based on his knowledge are only aspects of a bigger entity. By attempting to incorporate his various perceptions in regards to the daily domestic and foreign challenges, he ends up being reactionary. A reactionary has to be the least qualified for the position of a manager that requires a certain foresight to create a business (society) that prospers. However, if the manager is a pragmatist like Trump, he will be able to ‘micro-react’ to the challenges he encounters. While his bigger picture may well be off by another Universe, the way he ends up with this special look in his eyes tells the real story.

He is not the one that overthrew the democratically elected, Russia-aligned government of Ukraine. This crime against humanity and violation of all international laws and regulations was comitted by the DNC (since it is the DNC that reigns the Democratic party and not its members) via Obama. Biden and Clinton – to only name those who constituted the head of the regime at that time. On top of it, the Vice president of said regime Biden is engaged in illegal activities that exceed by far the corruption involving his son – as meeting and lingering side by side with the late warmonger in chief McCain the nastiest anti-democratic fascists (actually Neo-Nazis) Ukraine is saddled with now constitutes.

Pragmatist Trump uses the opportunity of talking to the new Ukrainian President for an inquiry about the sacking of an attorney general based on pressure from Biden (who admitted to that stating it publicly) that was investigating the case of corruption that had ‘Biden’ written all over it. And in the exact same fashion the Pussyhat wearing faction of the so called ‘democrats’ were supporting their war criminal of choice Clinton with impunity and falling for ‘Russiagate’ with the same delusion, these democrats – incapable to see the irony of it all – are now kicking off ‘Ukrainegate’ and one can only presume that they are indeed not playing with a full deck of cards, as they are in denial about the crimes against themselves, their country, humanity and war crimes by their democratic ‘leaders’.

This pathetic ping pong battle between democrats and republicans that only serves the ownerclass by fomenting a dangerous prerequisite for a civil war, eludes the electorate. Like the proverbial frog sitting in the ever hotter kettle, that is however told by truthful journalists that the water will get so hot that it will kill it (the electorate) soon – the frog is in total denial. The frog is instead trusting the chefs that are running around in the kitchen. The frog is too gullible and unwilling to accept that these countless chefs all work for the owners of the restaurant.

The democrats want war with Russia and China as much as the republicans. Both know in their utter delusions abou the outcome of such a war, that each and every day that passes by will tilt the outcome towards what they perceive as ‘the enemy’. It is this deep sitting delusion that allows for the breaking of any and all international laws and treaties – unilaterally. It is this same deep sitting delusion of the electorate that – depending on world view – lines up behind the psychopaths it revers as ‘leaders’. And as if that is not enough, the electorate engages in psychopathic oneupmanship the likes of “My psychopath is better than yours”.

Nothing will become of Ukraingate. But what will happen, is a sliding down to the lowest stoops of fascism the world has seen since the early 20th century. Ukraine does not only have the potential to trigger world war three, it has enough deranged (Neo-)Nazis with hate oozing out of their otherwise empty heads. These Ukrainian democrats will not hesitate to do as their masters in the US and Israel tell them to. Fascism has inherent the philosophy of ‘Torched Earth’ – the most dangerous derangement in all of the human condition.

Maybe Greta can talk to the Neo-Nazis and tell them not to start WW3?

vexarb
vexarb

NTO1: “The democrats want war with Russia and China as much as the republicans.”

Might be a salutory experience; the U$ getting a dose of real war. This article starts with the Houthi Surprise and developes:

https://thesaker.is/new-weapons-and-the-new-tactics-which-they-make-possible/

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

Yes, it is absolutely stunning to witness how the ingenuity of war criminals that devised The Drone™ as means to execute people at will from afar with impunity, are now getting a good dose of their own medicine. As a matter of fact, it makes it only the more plausible that in the end a nuke will have to be dropped – as the Western regimes are impotent against scores of drones and missiles. ‘Made in Ragheadland‘.

Without the need to spend trillions on the apparatchik, Middle Easterners can now manufacture sophisticated drones and missiles in spaces that are small and difficult to locate. The wandering drone factory is coming to town.

Can you see the irony that for two decades the fragments of arms used in the Middle and Near East were imprinted with English/French instructions, while future arms fragments in the U.S. and Europe might bear instructions in Arabic?

Next step will be to use these ‘Made in Ragheadland’ weapons on U.S. military installations in the area and see how well their defences work. If they don’t, it may be time to pack it all up and go where all theses bases belong: inside U.S. borders.

Personally, I never thought I would see the day in which the entirety of the Middle East would turn into a giant powder keg. Israel might be well advised to change course now and be content with what they had 1967. If Yemen can build sophisticated weaponry, Syria should be able to, too? Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Who else will soon be able to take out any of the empire’s or its vassals’ installations?

Thank you for the link.

Where to?
Where to?

In the UK and Australia, and other Zioropean countries, government officials love the works of intelligence operators.

Take the Iraqi war as an example, British and Australian politicians enjoyed the privilege of being able to blame intelligence services for the ‘mistakes’ in intelligence gathering, while privately/personally they always rejoice in murdering the ‘enemy’.

And people keep voting for them, giving tacit approval for endless wars and misery in Third World countries.

George Cornell
George Cornell

Short memories all round. And exactly what does it say about the UK, it having 3x voted in the rampant war criminal Tony Blair, and his being still at large? And giving “lectures” to people who haven’t slightest interest in him, for big bucks, allowing the scoundrel to amass a fortune nearing £100M. All for endorsing Bush Baby and sending young innocents off to kill and be killed.

Steve Hayes

I can only wonder at the political stupidity of the decision to attempt to impeach Trump on this Biden issue. Any investigation will inevitably lead directly to Biden’s corruption – having his son given a sinecure and Biden’s use of a billion dollars to close down the investigation into that corruption – and the Obama administration’s backing for the violent illegal coup d’etat in Kiev, which installed a Stepan Bandera idolising bunch of neo-nazis in power, who immediately unleashed war upon the population in the East of the country. Such an investigation would expose Biden, Nuland, Pyatt, Brennan, et al as guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Jihadi Colin

This “impeachment” is a circus. It has no meaning. Trump only had to do two things to ensure re election: to keep the military industrial complex happy and to appease the zionist lobby. He’s done both and the Daymockratic Party will oblige by putting up a guaranteed loser to run against him in 2020. The impeachment circus is just to keep attention diverted from the fix until then.

Tutisicecream

What is happening is that Zelensky has hit the buffers without any idea of how bad the crock [formerly known as Ukraine] is that he has been left to manage as Trump kisses his ass goodbye.

Trump has effectively dumped him and he now faces a winter of discontent from both his supporters and opponents. The Neo-Nazis [you know the cuddly touchy-feely ones the Graun so admires] will be out for his blood and are already holding torch-lit parades. Just as the gas transiting runs out and coal is desperately needed from Russia to provide heating for the winter.. the whole cookie jar is about to crumble.

It is sad it has come to this, but I can only see the wheels coming right off the Ukraine project. The Guardian/MSM with its bunch of fake narrative spinners will have no compunction abandoning them to the dustbin of their fake history. This will be because reporting on the ensuing chaos will not be possible due to their total misrepresentation of events over the last 4/5 years.

Zelensky does not look a happy man as the US abandon’s him to the wolves they created. And the MSM will no doubt just rub out this further act of regime change disaster by the US of A.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin

A nice summary of the blatant misinformation being pushed by the msm.

A direct challenge to Ed Pilkington’s blatant lies in the Guardian a couple of days ago – claiming that exact opposite!

Some observations:

1. I think it misleading to keep referring to Five Eyes when it is an established fact that it is actually a 5+1 eyed beast.

2. The OSCE involvement is a genius move – by the straight thinking parts of the EU and Russia.

In fact they should be involved in ALL plebescites EVERYWHERE in the world as a means of guaranteeing fair voting.
It certainly would have put paid to the SCL/CA meddling in many votes around the globe – and had a bearing on the dodgy referenda and elections on our on doorstep.

3. Does anyone else feel that the Kerry boy is being airbrushed out of the Bursima can of worms?

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar

What is going on is that powerful factions have decided that democracy no longer delivers the results they require so it is time to ditch it. They are up against a very much larger group of very much less well organised people who naively think that their ancestors spending 100 years to earn the vote means they do not still need to fight to protect those hard earned rights.

Bankers are solely interested in feathering their own nests and simply seek to control the body politic in whatever way will achieve that most easily.

Einstein
Einstein

Yup, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

I am surprised that this article does not include any in depth comment on the role played by Hunter Biden, the son of Joe Biden, in Ukrainian affairs. Here is a taste and a link…_

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/09/heroes-villains-and-establishment-hypocrisy/

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

Apologies, my cut and paste disappeared…_

“What I find deeply reprehensible in all the BBC coverage is their failure to report the facts of the case, and their utter lack of curiosity about why Joe Biden’s son Hunter was paid $60,000 a month by Burisma, Ukraine’s largest natural gas producer, as an entirely absent non-executive director, when he had no relevant experience in Ukraine or gas, and very little business experience, having just been dishonorably discharged from the Navy Reserve for use of crack cocaine? Is that question not just little bit interesting? That may be the thin end of it – in 2014-15 Hunter Biden received US $850,000 from the intermediary company channeling the payments. In reporting on Trump being potentially impeached for asking about it, might you not expect some analysis – or at least mention – of what he was asking about”

Jen
Jen

Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings represent two separate cans of worms and opening either can constitutes another Off-Guardian.org article. Certainly Hunter Biden’s role in Ukrainian affairs and the conflict of interest that Joe Biden had as US Vice-President with regard to Ukraine merit separate in-depth analysis, as does also the nature of Burisma Holdings itself: its activities in eastern Ukraine, especially in Slavyansk not far from where MH17 fell; its ownership with one of its major shareholders being or having been a corporation owned by Ihor Kolomoisky who may be connected to the MH17 shootdown; and the current make-up of its Board of Directors which include a former CIA officer (Joseph Cofer Black).

The issue in Tony Kevin’s article is that the US Democratic Party is using Trump’s conversation with Zelensky to get rid of Trump by deliberately claiming that Trump’s motive is to discredit Joe Biden ahead of the 2020 election year. The onus should be on the Democrats to prove that this is so, though with the way the American news MSM works these days, the spotlight will be on Trump to show that the conversation about Hunter Biden was not pressuring Zelensky and that there was no mention of the loan money that the US was supposedly threatening to withhold if Zelensky did not comply with Trump’s request.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Sound Good comment and I’m sure a couple of Chief Prosecutors are busy, right now:- To be honest Jen, I reckon thurs’ a few more than a few articles in this whole “Pay to Play” ethos of Politics today, in the USA and indeed behind all 5iFUKUS nations, who fund NATZO: who very clearly wished to relocate to the Ukraine, against all integrity and publicly spoken memorandums & memories of common understanding, upon the collapse of the USSR & border zones. Today, NATZO forces are still complicit in both the terrorism & drugs businesses, ramping Balkan Operations, thanks to the CIA “Pay to Play” ethos of the HillBilly Foundation’s formula of Capitalist USA expansion, (with Opioid crisis) and if in any doubt about how out of control the CIA got, just read up on Dilyana Gaytandzhieva’s latest revelations from Serbian Arms Producers, (as well as Bulgarian to Azerbaijan) destined for Yemen, before moving onto what Kim Dotcom & Bill Binney really think about the state of play in the CIA & NATO 5iFUKUS Surveillance Policy. Coz’, what has been revealed thus far, with emails and servers and Assange and operations charlemagne & crossfire hurricane, and the death of Seth Rich, with 5Eye deep state collusion against Trump & Russia-gate HOAX, within secret services in Italy, UK, Ukraine & Oz, is just the tip of the iceberg & this is all not so far removed from Sleepy Joe’s family business in the Ukraine, Manafort & Mifsud, Steele, Miller, Dearlove & the Skripals, as you will see for yourself in good time, before the 2020 elections:- and we can rest assured that Trump will pull/strike the line, now the MSM fish-head is hooked … 😉

Bill & Kim, worth listening carefully, (more than Hill&Bill) 🙂

By the way: Whatever happened to that Coldwar Russian Arms Depository, being observed by the OSCE, that was a Five Million pieces weapons stockpile, in Slavyansk, Ukraine ?
Just before Maidan Protests & MH17 ?
Somebody should ask for OSCE intel. . . .
& some confirmation of who profited & took control.
I recall how the FT dropped the ‘matter’ of Slavyansk, Blitzartig Schnell ! ?
I can imagine and was censored for suggestion at the F.T.&G.com 😉

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

A Five-Eyes operational dilemma indeed, that will test Morrison’s loyalties.

That would be fabulous! What if Bidengate were to end bringing down the whole corrupt, rotten edifice of the Five Ayes? That would be a dream come true! Well, it’s just a thought …

vexarb
vexarb

I found this helpful; from Juliania BTL the Saker:

“For those who like me do not know – from inforussie.com: Steinmeier formula

In late 2015, then German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier put forward a plan that later became known as the « Steinmeier formula ». The plan stipulates that a special status be granted to Donbass in accordance with the Minsk Agreements. In particular, the document envisages that Ukraine’s special law on local self-governance will take effect in certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions on a temporary basis on the day of local elections, becoming permanent after the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) issues a report on the vote’s results. The idea was endorsed at the Normandy Four meeting in Paris on October 2, 2015.”