UPDATED: London Bridge “Terror Attack”
The breaking news right now is an alleged “terrorist attack” on London Bridge. The story as reported so far is a man, wearing a “hoax suicide vest”, attacked and stabbed several people near the north end of London bridge.
The man was set upon by the public, disarmed and held until armed police arrived, at which point he was shot dead.
There is video, it is hardly graphic, but if you’re easily disturbed by violence this is your fair warning:
WARNING: Disturbing Video from #LondonBridge shooting incident. pic.twitter.com/nPUuUAQeMr
— Afshin Rattansi (@afshinrattansi) November 29, 2019
It has been confirmed by the police that man was unarmed and restrained when he was shot. Which appears to be the case in the video.
It is now being reported that two of the (as yet unknown number of) victims have died of their wounds. No names or other information is currently available.
Another video – available here on the Mirror’s website – shows a man running away from the affray, carrying a knife. One can assume this was the knife used in the alleged attack. [If anyone can find a copy of this video anywhere, please let us know.]
The man in the video has already been dubbed the “hero”, for allegedly disarming the man. The video appears to show him removing a piece of evidence from a crime scene. Exactly why is not clear, one would hope it was returned to the police.
The “hero” who allegedly disarmed the “terrorist”.
Who is this gentleman? Why has he been permitted to remove the knife from the crime scene? Why was a dead body left lying in the street, uncovered and with no police cordon around the scene? Who is this man taking the photograph?
Is he an official representative of the police? Or a forensics photographer? If so, wouldn’t you expect him to be dressed like these guys:
These are questions currently without answers.
Author and Journalist Sharmine Narwani raised an interesting point on twitter:
I'm not buying this. Call me a cynic, but why does "terrorism" conveniently happen RIGHT BEFORE a #UK election with a sitting Tory prime minister? Remember 2017 and Theresa May? #londonbridge pic.twitter.com/UQ3pDZ34hv
— Sharmine Narwani (@snarwani) November 29, 2019
It’s a fair argument to make, with many and varied historical precedents. False flags do happen. You certainly can’t rule anything out, especially at this early stage.
It is interesting that this incident should occur with only two weeks to go before the General Election. As Sharmine points out, it mirrors the Manchester Arena bombing in that respect. It is a generally accepted rule of thumb that the Tories always benefit when the nation feels under-threat.
The Guardian is already dedicated to telling a story, and controlling that story rigidly. Removing comments that even moot the possibility of an alternative motivation, as you can see here.
Whoever was behind the attack, or whatever the reality of the situation, there’s no denying it is already being politicised in certain corners. Within a couple of hours of the incident, this tweet screencap was being circulated:
It is totally fake. A quite obvious attempt to play up Corbyn’s supposed “softness” on terrorism.
So, the important questions:
- What happened on London Bridge?
- If it was a “terror attack”, what was the purpose?
- Will it be politically spun? How so?
- Will it impact the general election?
As always, discuss freely below. And if you find information which you think is interesting, important, or in danger of being memory-holed, post it in the comments or send it to us directly.
UPDATE 30/11/2019 – Just some relevent/interesting information to add to the discussion.
Firstly, there’s the fact Sky News claims they had a correspondent embedded with the “elite” unit that responded to the attack:
This is the moment members of the elite Police Territorial Support Group responded to the London Bridge attack.
Our Home Affairs Correspondent @skymarkwhite was filming with them when they got the call.
Read the latest on the incident here: https://t.co/b0EsILlDU9 pic.twitter.com/mLiClO1hJR
— Sky News (@SkyNews) November 30, 2019
The identity of the alleged attacker is now public too, his name was Usman Khan and he was – as the saying goes – “known to the authorities”. The current story is that he was convicted on terrorism charges in 2012, and was released on license late last year, despite initially being deemed too dangerous to be released.
Another of the alleged “heroes” has also been identfied, in the media, as James Ford, a convicted murderer on day-release.
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If he had been shot twice with high powered rifles, his head would have blown like a melon and leaving red blood stains all over the wall.
Except the rifles you speak of are not the type used by British police. High velocity rifles fire through people. This is not desirable for policing due to the risk of collateral casualties. Generally speaking the police only want to take out the person they are shooting at.
The man carrying the knife was an undercover police officer, its why his face is being blurred out in the news. His left hand is held out to keep people and the filmer back
Got there quick
the guy carrying the knife was an ‘off duty transport policeman’ apparently, no coincidence the only verbal radio interview the next day, was a guy who was involved holding the guy down, say ‘obviously, he picked the knife up from under the kerb’. hmmm, it smells, looks, walks, talks like BS, false flag
On tapnewswire they have a six-second video of the dead “terrorist” on London Bridge. Who gets up.
Google youtube and London Bridge Shooter Gets Up. 11-29-19
Hi Michael, I am studying every scintilla that is published and saving it in my files. Which show without a doubt that this was a false flag. Lets find out how many of these ‘rehabilitation’ seminars there have been previously? And what is the criteria for being invited, for it was by invitation only? How many ‘criminals’ attended. Obviously they would have been vetted and examined as they entered, so where did Khan store his blades, vest, massive jacket and balaclava? Who helped him tape the knives to his hands, and what was the point? The incident happened AFTER the lunch.. Next let’s find out who paid for this event, because the Fishmonger’s venue didn’t come free? The other points to notice are that the ‘terrorist’ changes his shoes from sand coloured boots to black shoes? Also there is no blood on the knife/es or around the dead man. Remember… Read more »
re ‘Why did the off duty Railway cop run away with one of the knives?’ Here’s my take on it:
It was the Railway cop’s job to ensure that the public saw the big scary knife else they may not support the support the draconian laws coming their way.
Over the weekend there’ve been 3 of these things in London, The Hague and New Orleans.
They’re definitely up to something.
I find it so hard to wade through the fakery sewage presented to us on pretty much a daily basis. I prefer to have it mediated by others, especially when they’re clever and funny and I do so miss all the clever YouTubers who are now virtually all shut down in scary fascistic fashion. But there’s the odd one who gets through. Enjoy! The Eyebrows Have It.
The weakness of the judicial system is a function of policies that were presided over by both major parties interchangeably over at least the past 40 years, interspersed with much windy and unconvincing rhetoric about getting tough on crime at election times. If anything, the Tories are more at fault in this regard. Until the early 1980s, routine sentencing policy would seem unbelievably harsh (or maybe effective?) by today’s standards. Disqualified driving (driving on a ban) carried an automatic 6 months’ imprisonment. Not 6 months with release after 3 months. 6 months inside. Now it is treated as a minor traffic offence, like speeding or driving in a bus lane. Burglary in a dwelling also carried an automatic prison sentence. Now, as part of supposed “get tough” policies, you MAY receive a prison sentence after your THIRD conviction for burglary. Fairly routine assaults classed as Actual Bodily Harm also often… Read more »
Did you get this hysterical bullshit from the Daily Mail? I have a close friend who was a serving copper until recently. The powers they have to stop and search have increased MASSIVELY with the introduction of the various anti-terrorism laws. Which also permit unlimited detention without charge btw. A great many people are dying as a result Bless your terrified little Englander heart! Less than 800 people were murdered in the UK 2017-18. Only a third or less of them were stabbed. Mostly in knife fights or domestic arguments. You are more likely to drown, be run over or fall down the stairs and break your neck than be stabbed to death in the UK. The knife crime epidemic is a LIE sold to scare you into demanding more social control. Society is currently about the safest it has ever been. Calm down. You are currently a chicken little… Read more »
Did you get this from the Daily Mail?
No.
Hands on personal experience.
You’ve never had to serve a full sentence in this country in my lifetime unless a judge recommends a minimum time to be served. You used to have to serve two-thirds of a prison sentence, with a third off for good behaviour…it is a means of imposing self-control on prisoners.
The reason sentences were cut to half served is two-fold, a larger population and over judgemental people like yourself always calling for longer sentences. The prison population rises in tandem with the number of prisons built and we have the largest in Europe, many of who are in for very petty offences.
You have to work really hard at it to get yourself incarcerated.
It’s easier to get a council house or a universal credit than it is to get a prison place.
You’re a spammer. Fuck off.
The prisons are full. We need more prisons. Or an island for Pedophiles.
We are all being drowned with a fog of disinformation. We know for a fact, that numerous attempts have been made to take this website Off-Guardian down, and yet the people who run it (I have no idea who they are) keep bouncing back.
They are all doing it for free, and they need our support, so if you think they are doing a good job (and I think they are Brilliant), send them a few quid, so they can pay for their hosting fees.
Christmas is coming up soon, and we really need people such as these who run Off-Guardian.
They are not only highly intelligent and moral.
They are also incredibly brave.
Tony
Well said, Tony.
Just seen Lord Falconer explaining (on Sky News) why Usman Khan was “automatically released on licence half way through his sentence”. His explanation demonstrates how Johnson has been extremely frugal/devious with the truth by trying to pin the blame on previous Labour Governments. Apparently, when originally sentenced, the judge decreed that because of the nature of the offences Khan and his cohorts should only be considered for early release after going before the Parole Board. But a Court of Appeal subsequently over-ruled the original sentence and, directly under the terms of the adjusted sentence, Khan (and presumably the others?) became eligible for automatic release under licence half way through their jail term without the involvement of the Parole Board. So it was the Court of Appeal ruling which resulted in his early release, not the terms of the original legislation as Johnson was eager to imply.
Usman was a patsy who probably never harmed or intended to harm anyone. Instead of piling on Johnson or the Labour Party or all the rest of the distraction nonsense people should be asking why this guy was ever locked up.
His ‘crime’ was to talk smack about blowing stuff up with some mates. He never actually made any attempt to do anything criminal. Never obtained explosives. Never made any actually statement he was going to do anything. It was just him and his friends sitting round saying ‘yeah man we should like totally blow some stuff up’.
But he was locked up for terrorism anyhow.
That’s the crime here. But the conversation is so cleverly controlled everyone is ignoring that in favour of approved mainstream talking points.
Yeah, and he only pretended to stab some people to death…
Erm, no. Real stuff happened and real people died and real people stopped even more from dying.
There, fixed it for you, you’re welcome.
frank speaker
more like frank spencer
matey turn on glr nick ferrari james obrien that global radio channel you can soak up 14 hours of zio bilge a day about the musslamic menace.
if anyone dies chum it was the patsy with the beard
the so called perp and the victims all where at the same fismonger masonic party
no members of the public where harmed here
Thank you Charles for your considered input. I’m polite, but no thumbs-up for you, I’m afraid.
Did I say no one died? No. I said Usman was sent down for simply talking with his mates about how someone could blow something up one day. This is true. Even the BBC suggested the conviction was dodgy.
This is what the Terrorism Act does. It allows people to be locked up for simply saying ‘hey we should like blow stuff up’. If you’re ok with that kind of fascism why are you here?
As to what happened on London Bridge. I have no clue. And neither do you. You’re just gullible enough to believe a lot more of the unverified stuff you hear from the corporate media than I am.
Talking to one another – like this?
https://film.avclub.com/four-lions-finds-the-lighter-side-of-terrorism-while-a-1798237039
To create an organised event. A ‘terrorist’ needs a Producer, to script a plan of action. Otherwise it ends up like the Four Lions film……
Another Dog And Pony Show from Foaming-At-The-Mouth-Radical-Moslems Inc., courtesy of our Zionist chums.
My view: the credulous and those not yet experienced in the real world may be affected, but the cynical majority will shrug their shoulders and say ‘When will the nobs just grow up?’
Most people can point to one event when their innocent trust of the MSM disappeared. In my generation it was 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan.
20 years on, political theatre fails to impress me.
That shows up a weakness about media control. They can feed you anything they want. They can also feed you bullshit about “public opinion” that encourages you to feel you’re in a tiny minority of “nuts”. But underneath it all lies ACTUAL public opinion. And that means that, although nobody is ever going to be allowed to say it on mainstream media – other than as a “crazy conspiracy theory”, there may be a sizable section of the ACTUAL public yawning over it and thinking, “Another pile of shite”.
“Most people can point to one event when their innocent trust of the MSM disappeared. In my generation it was 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan.” It was decade or so after what I call “my generation” for me, specifically on the 25th of January 1969. As the now-illustrious journalist, John Mair, reported on an anniversary of the event: For much of 1967, 1968 and 1969 the students were fighting the [London School of Economics] authorities. It all culminated in the ‘smashing of the gates’ on January 24 1969. The university, in an attempt to prevent students occupying its buildings, had erected gates around the campus; the protesters promptly took iron bars and knocked them down. No they didn’t. Maybe there were some temporary, easily knocked down ‘rent-a-gate’s somewhere that the students found it expedient to “knock down” with “iron bars”, but I can’t imagine where they would be, I don’t recall… Read more »
Apparently attacker shot-dead gets up…but this the same person?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQjvcONKKs
Editor: We consider this to be an interesting but highly dubious snippet of video. No provenance has yet been established and no explanation for its incredibly truncated duration has been offered. These and other anomalies lead us to seriously question its authenticity and we’d discourage people from giving it any weight at this time -ed.
A few things make me immediately suspicious of that video. He doesn’t seem to be laying on the ground in the same way as the dead body depicted in the main article. Nor at exactly the same spot. And the very nature of the 6 second clip. For a start the women talking in the background. What they say and how they say it sounds insincere and staged, and suspiciously timed. And the dramatic ‘bonging’ noise added to the clip for drama? Really? And the fact that the up-loader only gives 6 seconds of film. Why wouldn’t they keep filming the man who has just stood up? Or if they did keep filming, why edit the film so that it ends when it does? But what is really interesting, and opens a whole new Pandora’s box, is the sunlight. In the above photograph in the main article, of the person… Read more »
The body was apparently laying there until well into the evening, so the area was lit by artificial light. If you’ve ever been in that area you will know the street lights are very bright, and no problem for a photo to show a bus a red and the rest of the area shades of black and white…to answer another point raised. I’m an experienced amateur photographer and i cannot see any obvious issues with the photos yet from having a quick look.
And why would they leave the body lying unattended and not screened off for four hours or more?
There would have been a tent over it, had it been a real dead body.
Join the discussion…
Frank gives a possible explanation for the anomaly you point out relating to the sunlight which doesn’t debunk the anomaly because it could still be a genuine anomaly, in fact, I’m not sure his explanation really works anyway but I’m not expert in lighting so I cannot comment. It is truly remarkable how people will cherry pick one item in your list of points and offer another possible explanation which doesn’t debunk and only offers an alternative, however, the rest of the list remains without explanation from the would-be debunker.
ALL THE EVIDENCE MUST BE EXPLAINED.
Good work, ity. You show the makings of an expert hoax analyst … when you get that they deliberately undermine the story it makes it so much easier, doesn’t it?
Laying head to toe in totally the wrong direction, and people talk about false flags and fake news here, deary me.
Sure does small fishy Ity, and the name of the venue gives it away, that we have been predictively programmed.
”Fishmonger’s Hall?”
Short low definition videos can be faked very quickly, which I suggest this most probably is. It is quite clearly not a video of the event, so it was either faked, the same day as the event, or is a legitimate video, recorded before the event, by someone who knew the event was going to happen. In my view it is a fake of a fake event, but it proves exactly nothing. I have seen no evidence that anyone died, though it is possible that they did. I agree with my wife, that there were many witnesses there who were shocked and convinced someone was shot dead, by police. However, we have both been to many stage plays, where murder was completely faked, within yards of us. We even chatted to some of the actors afterwards in the pub. One of the first things to consider, is the timing of… Read more »
that video just pollutes the well
a psy op of a psy op
the victims and the musselamic acting perp and the hero where all at an event ritual at the fishmongers hall.
no members of the public involved
this was a self contained red dagger ritual satanick performance
in the era of 18 million pixel cctv video all we ever get is crap lower than vhs video
Vote Al de Piffle!
the man with the red dagger above should be knighted
and given a position within the royal stools chambers pots.
he looks like an honest broker in those desaturated over exposed paintings the poor chap is very pale i do hope branson can give the poor sbs marine boy a weel on his necker epstein island
already
boom!
and now the al majiroun story?! Omar Bakri Mohammed and Anjem Choudhary are known SIS/MI5 assets, and AM was set up with the help of SIS. this is old news. suck it up peons.
http://historycommons.org/
Have a really good read of this site. a lot of past “terror attacks” will swum into focus.
It had to be when you think about it, it all drops into place. Expendable footsoldiers recruited to fight foreign wars, a big increase in funding and more spooks, more surveillance, more control of the population, “lone wolf terror attacks” to drive public opinion to accept propaganda as truth, shoot to kill and allow occasional maham to keep us inside….. they’ve got us exactly where they want us and the biggest tools are the idiot Muslim youth “radicalising” themselves and buying one way tickets to Turkey or purchasing knives or making explosives to fill the objectives of MI5/6.
Now now Lundiel, I thought you were above name calling. Muslim youths are no more idiotic than you or I. In fact they are more switched on. And they certainly don’t want to be tools… Unfortunately some are so heavily compromised that they can see no way out but to trust MI5/6 and go along with the latest False Flag drill? Try investigating 7/7 watch The Ripple Effect. And read this, and see just how far MI5 go to ensnare and trap unsuspecting young men: 25 May 2013 Michael Adebolajo’s best friend Abu Nusaybah went on Newsnight and exposed just what Michael had suffered, and he was immediately arrested after the programme and taken for questioning (to silence him?) and has not been heard of since?? https://5pillarsuk.com/2013/05/25/was-michael-adebolago-an-mi5-agent/ His Brother who was already spying for MI5 was recruited to entrap his own brother. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334476/Woolwich-murder-MI6-connection-Younger-brother-Michael-Adebolajo-paid-thousands-spy-Middle-East.html?ico=home%5Emostread I am presuming that you are old… Read more »
I have found a lot of excellent information on the History commons site Yarkob, but you do have to search, and compare.
Especially the 911 information.
this is true, Maggie. good info but needs rooting out. search for omar bakri mohammed and his interview with ron susskind. that’s the money shot
i have a copy of that video. it also shows the man throwing something away, as Danny says below. there’s another video of the “shot” guy getting up late in the evening. the whole thing stinks (as usual)
Where is the link to the “dead” guy getting up?
As for the cloth, let’s think about this rationally for a minute. The attacker had 2 knives that he’s killed 2 people with and slashed many more. The knives will have blood on them. The attacker is temporarily disabled / distracted, one of his knives is seized and the chap now holding it is holding it by the blade. He will have blood on his hands, so he takes a handkerchief out of his pocket. A bit later on he throws it away. I don’t think it’s more than that, but I could be wrong.
I Think you need to visit Specsavers Frank.
”The ‘attacker’ allegedly had TWO KNIVES TAPED TO HIS WRISTS, which miraculously flew off his wrists?? Have you ever tried removing gaffer tape that is stuck together?
There is no video ‘anywhere’ of the knife/ves being seized from the attacker. And the off duty transport cop held the knife by the handle, and there was NO BLOOD ON IT. He did get a piece of paper from his pocket (probably his script?) and threw it in the floor. It was not a handkerchief, and he did not wipe the knife or his hands with it….
and yes you are wrong.
Re the tweet. Parliament has been dissolved. There are no MPs. There is no “sitting Tory prime minister”.
Incorrect, even when Parliament is dissolved, the role of PM and ministers are not dissolved. They remain in those functions until the election results and new government is announced.
Funny how these supposed “terrorist attacks” happen just before the election?
Jo Cox?
The man who carries the knife away.
Interesting that “by chance” (according to Sky News reporter) he was plain clothes transport police, and what’s going on with this white cloth?
https://youtu.be/kWdAaCgM1xE
Looked like he was throwing away a big bag of coke. Maybe he spotted some sniffer dogs.
Another well timed terrorist attack.
This latest incident follows a pattern
03 June 17 terrorist attack London Bridge
08 June 17 GE
20 April 17 terrorist attack Champs-Élysés
23 April 17 French GE
Labour MP murdered a few days before the BREXIT vote
It is a known fact that a terrorist attack will favour the sitting government . Coincidence, I think not
“Years of lead”.
Can anybody say Gladio?
I wish someone would put the following straightforward question to Boris Johnson. How come the practice of “automatic early release” which he has been effusively condemning today, and implies cannot be denied to convicted terrorists, didn’t apply equally to Julian Assange when he was eligible for release on licence in September? Or am I missing something?
Shot ‘a la Menzies’, at point blank. The bus is RED, the paving is not. Remains to discover the calibre of the gun used in the summary execution. —- The cloth/tissue the bloke threw down, followed the course of projection, therefore, there was either no wind or it followed the wind direction exactly. Or it was weighted with unseen content. It appears that ISIS has claimed ownership of the attack. Their paymasters in Whitehall/FCO egging them on, no doubt.
Strange: who Photoshopped the picture and why? The bus is red yes but no colour in the vicinity of the brightly lit photographer.
If that bloke had been shot in the head there would be a lake of blood.
A total joke.
Perhaps the press could enquire as to what it was the ‘off duty transport police officer’ discarded and why. It makes no logical sense however they might try to dress it up. If the item was of little consequence to what was going on then why did he feel compelled to remove it from his pocket and dispose of it with such haste and flamboyance in the middle of an ongoing crisis. If it was related to the incident shouldn’t he have kept it as possible evidence for forensic testing etc. But I would bet money that the press won’t ask.
For anyone wanting to go further down the rabbit hole (on this and related topics) I recommend Zachary Hubbard, and his exposition of gematria (kabbalistic numerology) and how it is purposely encoded into everyday events. His latest video addresses the London Bridge staged attack:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/KV0vEcoxaBW9/
Thank you so much for that link, Vivian, with the YT censorship haven’t seen a Zach video in years.
Love how he points out Olivia Bizot’s coincidental presence at the Boston Bombing.
There’s always those who’ve just happened to be at another staged event, aren’t there … and, of course, Olivia “didn’t really assume it was gunshots at first,” because witnesses generally don’t match the sound with the obvious type of source first off, they generally tend to think it was something else although rather differently from the norm, Olivia doesn’t tell us what she thought it was first, just that she heard “explosions” and didn’t “really assume” it was gunshots.
https://fox4kc.com/2019/11/29/2-people-killed-in-london-bridge-stabbings-police-fatally-shoot-suspect/
I have my doubts about Zachary though. He seems to know an awful lot for a non-insider and, as far as I know, he hasn’t called out 9/11 as a complete hoax rather than a “false flag” where 3,000 people were killed and 6,000 injured. Anyone who seems as though they should know better who doesn’t call out 9/11 as a complete hoax (apart from damage to and collapse of the buildings) is very suspect in my book. Of course, many genuine truthers have been completely brainwashed (my God they’re good at their propaganda) into believing that 9/11 was a “false flag” rather than a complete hoax and it certainly is proving extremely difficult to coax them out of that false belief but someone like Zachary would surely get it so I have serious doubts about him … but, of course, controlled opposition or not he can certainly deliver a… Read more »
Oh Flaxy, any opportunity to trot out your insane theory of 9/11. It’s getting awfully old, dear.
Only interested in theories in how well they fit the evidence, Ken. Not generally interested in theories otherwise. But really is any thinking person going to believe that ONE thing is true in a whole sea of BIG FAT LIES? Why would a thinking person be so convinced that ONE thing – just the ONE thing – was true without a skerrick of evidence for it when everything else in the story was false? Why? Now that’s insanity to me. Of course, it took me four years of study to disabuse myself of that insanity myself but now that I have I find it remarkable that even when I explain the propaganda model and provide compelling evidence, logic and reason for people not being killed on 9/11 that I’m treated as insane when the only insanity would be for the US government to do it for real when the CIA… Read more »
I mean, seriously, Ken, who do you think knows the truth about 9/11. Do you think all the agency staff and media involved DON’T KNOW? Do you think somehow they all think fire brought the buildings down? Is that what you think Ken? That all the firefighters, police, media and the hundreds and hundreds of other people think that the buildings came down by fire? If not, do you think they’re all AOK with 3,000 of their fellow citizens being murdered by their government, especially in the case of the firefighters of whom 343 allegedly perished. Where are the firefighters jumping up and down, Ken? Where are they? Think, Ken, think. Put the grey matter to work.
You suffer from a serious case of black and white thinking.
Monochrome thinking is better than none at all, Ken.
You must have me confused with someone who is ignorant of or denies the fact that 9/11 was a false flag, Frank.
I don’t. You don’t appear to be a shill, so you’re here because you’re among a minority of people who are better informed about scams like 9/11. I do take exception to your mocking tone and apparent inability to engage with Liverani above. It bespeaks ignorance or at the very least a distinct lack of common sense.
I’ve often wondered why most of those seeking to expose 9/11 completely ignore the ‘vicsims’- that is, the litany of supposed victims whose names are clearly made up and/or whose two photographs (apparently released for remembrance by the bereaved familes) are absurdly blurred or saturated images which are frequently lateral inversions of each other. I also recall those walls in New York onto which relatives and friends had supposedly stuck notices about their missing loved ones. They were frequently used in the media as emblematic symbols of the scale of trauma and loss. One should ask oneself this, however. If your relative has gone missing, and having gone to all the trouble of printing a Missing notice in the hope that it would be read by a passerby, would you then post it on a wall 15 feet off the ground? It’s utterly mind-boggling to browse the vicsims and numerous… Read more »
Thank you, Frank. You’re right, in the sense of numbers of people who’ve lost their lives since 9/11, whether people on 9/11 died or not is of not great significance, however, whether they died or not is still highly significant and we know that simply from the millions the perps have put into keeping truthers persuaded of the lie of death and injury. Truthers are hamstrung in getting out the truth when they are under the illusion of that lie. I seriously doubt the respiratory illnesses – that seems to be a whole lot of propaganda too. Controlled demolitions are not as dust-producing as we are led to believe those of the twin towers were (WTC-7 wasn’t as nearly dust-producing even taking size into account). It seems they pumped out masses of (no doubt benign) dust from the buildings as they fell which performed a number of useful functions. See… Read more »
We now have 2 psychop assets here pushing the same provable nonsense that nobody died in 911, and now having a “conversation” with one another to try and build up credibility! This is so amateurish, so transparent! LOL
Performance review for Personas #149 and #150
1/10 must try much harder!
Military’s ‘sock puppet’ software creates fake online identities
Hmm. OK, so in whose possible interest would it be to shill in support of the notion that no one died on 9/11 but argue that the murderous regimes of the USA and Israel nevertheless carried it out?
I address my query to you, Frank Speaker, as you’re evidently some kind of deductive genius with a nose for sniffing out online shenanigans orchestrated by ‘intelligence assets’, and you’re in no whatsoever an ‘ass-hat of limited intelligence’. No, sir.
It’s one extreme or the other with you isn’t it?
Reality is “shades of grey”, or even full technicolor.
It’s not mutually exclusive to say 911 was an inside job AND that real people died as a result.
You have somehow bizzarely taken a very irrational, and unproven viewpoint that zero people died in 911. That’s a viewpoint that is completely proven to be 100% false based upon thousands of individual eyewitnesses.
There is zero validity to any claim that zero people died in 911, and that’s a completely different claim from speculating who was behind 911.
That’s why you / Flaxgirl are either ill, or are psychop assets who are attempting to discredit genuine concerns about the official narrative into 911 and other events where the establishment narrative does not match the evidence and eyewitness accounts.
whats kens theory on the tamoodick event of the 9 and 11
pray tell old bean
No idea. You’ll have to take it up with him, dear chap.
Have a good look around the website ae911truth.org and read “Solving 9-11” by Christopher Bollyn, or watch one of his many presentations on YouTube. You will then have a good idea of my theory on 9/11, old bean.
Seconded. Chris Bollyn has it wrapped up, at least in terms of the perpetrators. Incontrovertible.
Frank, see my reply to Ken, above.
Ken, all the anti-Israel stuff is simply distraction propaganda. Dancing Israelis? Van stopped in roadblock found to contain explosives dust? Complete nonsense. Not to say that Israel wasn’t involved in 9/11, not to say that at all but, funnily enough, the truth can be used as distraction propaganda … which leads me to AE9/11Truth. Don’t they do an absolutely FANTASTIC job of explaining controlled demolition. I mean, it’s so very, very professional. I have to say I did wonder how architects & engineers could do such a damned good communications job. That’s cos they have a little help, yep. The most sensible place to focus is the planes, right, because if you expose the fact that the plane crashes were faked then you don’t really need to bother with the buildings – faked plane crashes automatically means the buildings came down by controlled demolition, right? It also means automatically that… Read more »
And just to add AE9/11Truth have a plane in their logo … and we know what that means, don’t we, if it’s not apparent already. Controlled opposition. They were no planes and they know that, of course, and if you think there were, Ken, here’s evidence there weren’t.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/four-faked-plane-crashes.html
I’m with Ken on this one, Petra. There is no ‘anti-Israel stuff’ that isn’t very well earned. All the distraction in every single mainstream source is away from Israel rather than towards it. Please review Christopher Bollyn’s material. Having done so, one would need to be absurdly myopic to fail to see Israel at the very center of 9/11, at the very centre of policy that stemmed from it and at the very centre of all efforts to cover it up and distract from it. As for all the other details – they’re all peripheral to me, although I’m inclined to think the (at least, official) victims were vicsims, and I’m inclined to think there were indeed no planes – all video of the event having been precisely synchronised across TV networks. I’d rather avoid getting into discussion of the details, as I think it’s all distraction from the inescapable… Read more »
Frank, I’m not talking about anti-Israel in the mainstream, I’m only talking about anti-Israel directed at truthers. The Dancing Israelis and the white van stopped in the roadblock and found to contain explosives dust seriously are nonsense. You don’t believe these, do you Frank? These are absurdities. They are directed at truthers to make us think Israelis brought down the buildings to make it more plausible. It’s more difficult to accept that US citizens brought down those buildings killing their fellow citizens so callously like that … but outsiders – oh outsiders are more plausible. I know this because I SWALLOWED this propaganda myself. But it don’t matter who exactly brought the buildings down – Mossad, CIA, demolition company – because they were evacuated. My point is, Frank, that they distract us with all sorts of stuff – Israel, Saudi Arabia, nanothermite/thermite/thermate/nuclear/Judy Woods/etc – anything and everything they distract us… Read more »
Petra, there are many circularities in your arguments. It appears that you start from the premise that if a piece of evidence appears compelling then this compelling evidence that it’s false. Everything but some cherry-picked simplest explanations is a misdirection, you appear to argue. You invoke Occam and his beloved razor in a manner which I wouldn’t describe as completely intellectually honest or consistent. Your arguments are motivated by the logical necessity to simplify, but the result resembles that of the CIA when they coined the term, ‘conspiracy theory’ aiming to neutralise those awkward questions about the official JFK assassination narrative. Since then, the term has been used as a means to discredit any alternative narrative as unnecessarily complicated and conspiratorial. How is that substantively different from what you’re doing here – especially when you prioritize playing down Israel’s role? While it’s true that the ‘dancing Israelis’ has become something… Read more »
Frank, I’m afraid I have to disagree with your assessment that I use Occam’s Razor incorrectly and that I am not 100% intellectually honest. You also strawman me. I don’t “minimise” Israel’s involvement. What I say is that regardless of its level of involvement, the US government (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld I’m presuming) rubber-stamped everything so they are the primary culprits. Something may well be true but pushing the focus on it can be considered a form of propaganda. In Kit’s article on Andrew that is what he suggests: the focus is on Andrew with a non-under age girl (in the UK at least) to distract from far more nefarious activities. Occam’s Razor is not so much concerned with trivial or massive but how well the evidence supports the hypothesis. That is what I always focus on: — What hypothesis does the evidence fit with the fewest assumptions and questions raised? — Is… Read more »
Just to make myself clearer:
Israel may have had massive involvement in 9/11, however, it didn’t rubber-stamp what happened on the day. That was done by US officials, right?
This was an event on US soil and had to be authorised by US officials – whether Zionists, dual-citizens or whatever. They had to be US.
So surely the initial charges for perpetrating this hoax starts with US officials, whoever their collaborators might be and whatever influence they had. If you think it doesn’t please tell me why.
Firstly, I haven’t set out to strawman you. Outside of what you’ve posted on this page I haven’t seen your thesis. My response has been selective – based as it is on the totality of your comments above. Forgive my remark about intellectual honesty. It wasn’t directed at your person but at your underpinning arguments. I think you should abandon all efforts to apply Occam’s razor to 9/11. A woman stabbing her abusive husband in the kitchen is a likely case for which Occam’s razor might come in handy. 9/11 isn’t. I think you’ll agree that 9/11 is a multilayered and complex event where the groundwork was laid, and still is being laid, for numerous competing and contradictory narratives, most of them obvious misdirection such as Saudi Arabia (which you do your argument no good at all by mentioning alongside Israel). 9/11 clearly served numerous interests, and cannot be distilled… Read more »
I’ve jumped back up here to respond to your last comment cos it’s getting too narrow here. I think we’re talking at cross purposes here, Frank. I simply want to show that at a basic level 9/11 was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event where the only realities of the day were damage to and destruction of buildings. The plane crashes were faked and death and injury were staged. These basic facts are simply not known. The majority of people still think it was 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters and most others don’t get the key lie of 9/11: 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured. They don’t get that it was simply a massive exercise. Promulgating the basic facts of what the events of the day were I think is important, don’t you? The basic facts of the events of the day have nothing to do… Read more »
‘Yes, I may have shot him, officer, but it’s more accurate to say that a huge mass of atoms created a vibration and acted on another mass of atoms, propelling a smaller mass of atoms at incredibly high speed against the mass of atoms you call the victim. No need to complicate this by dragging me into it, is there officer?’
“… at a basic level 9/11 was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event where the only realities of the day were damage to and destruction of buildings.’
You’re not using Occam’s razor here, Petra, you’re using My First Big Boy Shaving Kit by Fisher Price, Ages 3 and Up.
And considering the way you always fall back to your initial position regardless of what you’re told, I now suspect your sole intention is to run interference for Israel.
I really do think it’s hilarious the way people suspect me of agendas, truly hilarious. I’m so transparent – my only agenda is to present a persuasive case for the truth. Apologies, Frank, I should have put a link to where I provide Occam’s Razor exercises and other material for this seemingly ludicrous claim.
It’s all here:
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/11.html
Just to add, Frank. In the first few months of my study of 9/11 I got controlled demolition and then a few months later I got the planes (even though, of course, both are really obvious at the outset but it’s the propaganda and sense of disbelief that causes that delay) but it took four whole years to get staged death and injury because of the massive propaganda campaign directed at truthers aimed to maintain belief in the lie of real death and injury. It’s wall-to-wall controlled opposition out there distracting us and persuading us of the lie of death and injury, Frank, wall-to-wall. I do not analyse all the detailed stuff. As I say, Israel may well have had massive involvement in 9/11 and we all know it had, at least, some involvement and I’d say you’re right about the massive part. But this I do know: they use… Read more »
And just to add one more thing. It is simply breathtaking what information (truth or lie) they will push out against themselves. They totally know how to do the wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing act and they will do it shamelessly (although still generally giving us clues (if subtle) that they’re really a wolf). Totally. I have looked at Christopher Bollyn’s stuff but this was before I woke up to the controlled opposition campaign. He seemed convincing at the time but now I know about the wall-to-wall controlled opposition I strongly suspect that that’s what he is. I mean, come on, he’s simply devoted to pushing out anti-Israel stuff … but is there any hint from him of staged death and injury? Of course not! Admittedly, genuine truthers don’t say it either but that’s because they’ve been totally brainwashed by the truther-targeted propaganda (as I was until I woke up). This is an exchange… Read more »
Errr, has anybody ever been in a knife fight ? Without a knife . . . ?
Mind you, ‘in the river’, would have maybe been my first reaction . . .
Less time wasted with stupid lengthy superficial non-scientific Police ‘officiaL’ enquiries.
“Your job, innit’, get the divers 🙂 ” Public Safety First … ROSPA Royal Certification 😉
Intel. inside Israel 🙂 ‘iii’ grand ‘Psyop’ 😉 Bang on time . . .
looking at the grand building above
the hall for fish mongers
that is a big hall
that is
that big hall is part of a very big building
that
that is vast that is how many fishers of men can you get into a place like that A
how many mi spooks actor marines sbs types
how many catering crew
how many terror and crime pros
kings men and queens men
liars and deceivers
the halls filled with the smell of rotten sleeping fishes
that building is vast that is
500 million at least buy my rekonimg
i never knew these very fishy mongers made that can of money
and why ain;t it a car park or another executive property development like scotland yard
what a load of cods wallop
already
FFS! The Groan still has a live thread on this story. They seem very keen to keep this story running and running. Talk about a lack of perspective. People are being stabbed to death on an almost daily basis in London, but as soon as the attack is near the seats of power, everyone loses their shit. Pathetic. And to show how ridiculous things are getting… Government holds emergency Cobra meeting. Downing Street said government officials, police and security officials held a meeting of the emergency Cobra committee on Saturday afternoon. A spokesperson said that the prime minister would receive further updates from security officials this evening and tomorrow morning. Really? What exactly are they going to discuss at this Cobra meeting? And Priti Patel is already blaming Labour for this attack. This Tory government is fucking disgusting. They are monsters. There are no depths to low for them. Utter… Read more »
It should also be pointed out that UK regime troops are now in the crosshairs of the ICC for egregious war crimes. The kind that makes you vomit. The UK regime has been covering up the war crimes its henchmen perpetrate, but wait, oh wait! There is someone kniving down folks (not good) on the bridge and Cobra needs to spew it venom! Effing UK regime war criminals killed scores of INNOCENT human beings (yes, lots of women, children and the elderly among them) and now acts as if a nuke was dropped on the Queen’s rose garden. These are not only utter bastards that know no limits to their depravity – this is the worst scum the world has ever seen and to imagine that these kind of people were able to lie their ways through seven decades and create this upside down world in which anything goes when… Read more »
I’m curious to know why the Tories should be helped electorally when the terrorist had been released under Tory rule after only 6 years of a 16 year sentence for another serious terrorism offence. If this were a false flag operation, the script writer could have come up with a much more incendiary script. Perhaps an attack on a synagogue.
The “staged event” MO is very counterintuitive, Christopher, in the deliberately sloppy and unrealistic method of staging. This page may help you understand it.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/they-tell-us-clearly.html
That was a Labour rule. The Tories inherited it and then put an end to it, but the perp had already been convicted by that time.
I think we have to be very careful in these situations, and not to get too carried away. It’s easy to end up seeing the sinister in every little thing, which can often create confusion rather than clarity. Take the man with the knife, and the video posted below, of him throwing away a piece of cloth/handkerchief. Now my instincts, rightly or wrongly, have me believe that the man looks to be in shock. Why is he holding the knife in the way that he is? If he wanted to avoid fingerprints being destroyed, then wouldn’t he hold it by the blade? And the handkerchief which he can’t decide what to do with. Isn’t it possible that at first he instinctively kept it, but then threw it away in a sort of delayed horror minutes later? And take the police shooting the man. The whole scene does look a bit… Read more »
Aspects of staged events are counterintuitive, ity. In fact, they make it clear they’re faking them. There seem to be various reasons they do this but when you put aside the notion (however logical it may seem) that they would try to cover the fact they’re staging an event and embrace the notion (however illogical it may seem) that they push it in our faces that they’re staging it, analysis becomes so much easier. Much less headache and pondering and trying to fit pieces together that simply won’t fit.
Occam’s Razor fails miserably when you try to explain this event as either a real event or a false flag that they try to pull off as realistically as possible but it performs beautifully when you try to explain the event as staged with the staging made obvious.
My webpage They Tell Us Clearly may be helpful – https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/they-tell-us-clearly.html
Jackanory
— While you don’t use your real name, Frank, I do. — While I put my money where my mouth is with my website and challenge, Frank, you don’t. You do not make the slightest effort whatsoever to credibly argue against my claims by providing any evidence, logic or reason in your comments. — Who are you, Frank, are you simply a witless “useful idiot” or “controlled opposition”? Whichever, it makes no odds to me. Go ahead and take up space in the comments with your nonsense attacks, Frank, and downvote my comments (no doubt you’re one of the witless downvoters) because I defend anyone’s right to say what they want. I will avoid reading (as much as I’m able) and will not reply to any comments you make in the future because there is no good reason to waste any more of my time or take up space with… Read more »
Who am I? I am a seeker of truth, a despiser of hypocrisy, a peace maker, a democratic socialist, a nature lover, an innovator, a philosopher, a polyglot.
I also have a very open mind, but I know when to adjust the lid on it sufficiently to stop sewerage, psychops, and disinfo campaigns like yours pouring in and polluting it.
Just to add to my earlier reply, your comment of: “credibly argue against my claims by providing any evidence, logic or reason” Erm, no. Let’s assume for a moment for that you are not a disinfo agent ridiculing legitimate “conspiracy theorists” with outlandish claims, it’s then for YOU to prove that your outlandish claims are legitimate not complete BS. Let’s us 911 as a quick example. Yes, it’s clear from the evidence that 911 was aided and abetted by insiders and likely Mossad. It’s also clear that architects and engineers have proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the towers were detonated. It’s also clear that the Building 7 collapse was reported by the BBC 25 minutes before it even occured – I personally saw that live BBC broadcast at the time. However, for you to then claim that no person died in 911 goes against all the physical evidence, all… Read more »
I agree completely. Thanks for saying that.
Richard, Have you looked at the clear EVIDENCE presented and points made supporting death and injury being staged on 9/11. https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html Please consider the following exchange between Brian Williams, MSNBC News Anchor and David Restuccio, FDNY EMS Lieutenant about WTC-7, the third building to collapse at the WTC on 9/11, after its collapse: “Can you confirm that it was No 7 that just went in?” [“Went in” is a term used in controlled demolition that comes from the fact that the buildings fall in on themselves.] “Yes, sir.” “And you guys knew this was comin’ all day.” “We had heard reports that the building was unstable and that eventually it would either come down on its own or it would be taken down.” https://youtu.be/i5b719rVpds?t=224 It is obvious, no?, from this conversation that Brian Williams and David Restuccio are IN ON the event. Watch the rest of the song linked to… Read more »
There you go again Persona #149.
It’s entirely valid to say that 911 was an a planned inside / Mossad job, we are not disputing that, but your claim that zero people died is completely against ALL THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
You are deviously using the first undisputed point to try and gain credibility with your outlandish second point.
No way Persona #149. You are sick, or you are a disinfo asset who is trying to ridicule those of us who dispute the official 911 narrative and other false flags.
Yup- classic disinformation, though “asset” might be an overstatement. Given the laughable failure of the effort expended, perhaps “disinfo liability” might be a more apt descriptor?
I’ve looked at many things in my life, “Petra”. Your madcap shtick is unoriginal, and easily recognized.
You’re wasting your time here- please don’t bother trying to suck me into your games.
You have a blessed day now, y’hear?
LOL. I think it’s so hilarious that my critics keep reverting to flaxgirl, flaxy, etc and try to make out that Petra Liverani is some sort of fake name. Hilarious! All you have to do is google me and my reality will stare out at you from various sources. Although I used to post as flaxgirl I was always putting links to my website which has my real name so flaxgirl was never really a cover anyway.
Richard, Off-Guardian has published two articles by me, how much more real do you need?
What your alleged criticism lacks, Richard, is any actual content, it is just assertion of zero consequence.
My post was not a criticism, it was a DISMISSAL. Different.
Goodbye, “real internet person”.
Off-Guardian has published two articles by me, how much more real do you need? I’ve checked you out in extensive detail, Petra, long time UX specialist of New South Wales social services, and, although I don’t know why you switched from your ‘flaxgirl’ pseudonym to your ‘real name’, I concur it is indeed real enough for you to have drawn a NSW state government salary on it for many years and real enough for contacts there to identify you as both the same and bit cuckoo, but not a cuckoo in Petra’s nest. I also don’t know why you attribute the loose screw that you imagine fell out of your Macquarie University liberal arts degree textbooks (or a less rigorous tome you found subsequent to that) to the account therein of Occam’s Razor, or why you have had said loose screw surgically inserted into the left frontal lobe of your… Read more »
You omit, unsurprisingly, Robbo, because it doesn’t quite gel with your ludicrously rabid ideas about me that I’ve had two articles published by Off-Guardian on 9/11 and two by Open Forum on renewable energy and that I am a TECHNICAL WRITER – admittedly, the level of technicality that I deal with is modest but technical writers need to think logically in order to present information accessibly and thus it is no surprise that I gravitated to Occam’s Razor when I got onto how we are being hoaxed and wanted to make my case for it. One OffG article was a critique of Noam Chomsky on 9/11 and the other attacked self-styled skeptics, none of whom have responded with counter-attack or defence. The article directed at self-styled skeptics has been republished on the Global Research and Consensus 9/11 Panel websites plus a couple of other blog sites https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/about-me.html Do you have… Read more »
…that I am a TECHNICAL WRITER… That too. Have you forgotten your UX work already? Do you have articles published anywhere? Many, both as author and, sometimes, photovrapher. And hunks of academic texts in books, or sole or collaborative papers in academic journals. And scores of broadcast, educational and theatrical films as one or more of the union grades of writer, director or producer and occasionally cinematographer. Plus copious amounts of more ‘hidden’ IT stuff, like all or parts of operating systems, technical software and basic algorithms. What relevance does any of that long past, day-job shit have for anyone here in this sub-thread? This is just an hilarious absurdity and this is my final word on my being a real person with a credible background. Which my post sought to affirm, against some gainsayers in this thread, before it got caught in your self-promoting narcissism and its stunning inability… Read more »
Got any links to anything, Robbo?
Seriously, look at how antagonistic you are, Robbo. It’s absurd. It seems you simply hate me because I claim that 9/11 was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event, in essence, not dissimilar to the one we’re commenting on but on a much, much grander scale (and with massive destruction of buildings involved) and I present evidence and logic for that claim. I can understand your lack of agreement but your level of of antagonism simply baffles me. Narcissism? Have I ever referred to my articles or job (big deal anyway) before? I’m just showing I have a credible background and am a real person.
Goodbye Persona #149
Mostly not. Most of my working life was pre-Internet. Only the very last part of it was on the Internet, where you could find my real name and “work” via “links” if you really wanted to, but not easily–as I conciously, therefore pretty effectively, arranged for their loss down convenient memory holes–and were I not here for the (pseudo-)anonymity.
…you make stupid claims like “hate”?
Mostly not … You mean you have none or you simply don’t want to post any links revealing your real name? It’s not a competition, of course, and for me the only one of my links that I think is really worth anything is my website because there I explain things in a way that no one else does in quite the same way and I think I explain them accurately. You’re right about the stupid claim of “hate”, Robbo. It’s not the sort of silly, emotive term I normally use and I regretted it once I’d posted – it would be so good if comments were editable – however, you do seem to harbour antagonistic feelings purely based on the fact that I claim that death and injury were staged on 9/11. This is despite the fact that I present 10 points supporting the staged hypothesis and have issued… Read more »
You mean you have none or you simply don’t want to post any links revealing your real name? The latter. you do seem to harbour antagonistic feelings purely based on the fact that I claim that death and injury were staged on 9/11. 9/11 has nothing to do with it. My antagonism is directed towards any entity who, with intent or through stupidity, abuses the hard-earned tools of the rationality, painstakingly developed by an enormous collaborative effort over millennia, that have enabled us to make at least some sense of an otherwise chaotic “objective” universe. Where in both my exercise and challenge is Occam’s Razor not being applied correctly? Can you please explain how it is not being applied properly I have told you in painstakingly repetitive detail once, in significant detail once, in a clear but condensed form two or three times, and by hint or reference another two… Read more »
I reject your claim that you have told me repeatedly. You provide no evidence of your work and no evidence of how you have debunked my claims just assertions.
I, on the other hand, have provided evidence of my work and evidence of my claims … and adding to the compellingness of my claims I have issued a challenge for people to respond with equivalent exercises favouring the opposing hypotheses to which no one has responded, including you.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/5000-challenge.html
As far as I’m concerned, Robbo, you have zero credibility and there is no reason to engage further.
I rest my case and I reject your completely unsubstantiated claims.
Where in both my exercise and challenge is Occam’s Razor not being applied correctly? I have told you in painstakingly repetitive detail… I reject your claim that you have told me repeatedly. You provide … no evidence of how you have debunked my claims just assertions. I haven’t even tried to debunk any of your “claims”, except on a few occasions to scorn and/or mock and/or be downright facetious about them (e.g. “wibblywobbly.com”), depending on how meretricious and/or contemptuous they have been of the persons whom, without any hint of reliable evidence, you regularly trash in them BUT I have indeed repeatedly criticised your trashing of formal logic in general and–your favourite–Occam’s Razor in particular, mostly in the sub-threads where they comprised a direct reply to or a side comment on one of your posts. As I keep no record of my posts and certainly not any of yours, and… Read more »
Well done, however, identities can be created out of thin air, or even commandeered from people who died, it’s a known tactic of the intelligence services, and of organised criminals, fraudsters, etc.
I do not believe that you are who you claim to be, rather that you are a disinfo / psychops asset, originally called Flaxgirl.
Then, you were publicly called out as such, and therefore, to try and maintain some credibility and keep you as an active asset, your handlers told you to use a “real name” instead.
However, we all know that identities can be created out of thin air, or even commandeered from people who died, it’s a known tactic of the intelligence services, and of organised criminals, fraudsters, etc.
You claiming that you are a genuine Petra Liverani is as valid and provable as if you were claiming to be Donald Duck. Quack quack.
Petra has always used the post name ‘flaxgirl’, but her real ID was clear to us through her email. It’s no more sinister than you using the name ‘Frank Speaker.’ When she made a few comments under her real name we asked her to pick which ID she would use as we discourage multiple identities. She opted for her real name. End of.
It’s fine to disagree and even to hold personal doubts about another poster’s authenticity, but getting too bogged down and accusatory isn’t helping anyone.
And just to say, Admin, that when I started using Petra that was what I meant to stay with and it was purely accidental that I reverted to flaxgirl on that one occasion. My goodness, I only started with flaxgirl because that was my wordpress screenname at the time and it didn’t really occur to me to use my actual name. I stuck with it for a long time but then decided that there was no good reason to hide my identity (the main reason for the delay in switching was fear that my maniacal posting of comments in OffG might embarrassingly appear in a google search), that it wasn’t really hidden anyway and it would give me greater credibility … fail!!! OMG!
… and your leaving long term employment in New South Wales goverment agencies earlier this year removed any requirement for maintaining a modicum of prudent discretion?
Frank, under the screen name flaxgirl I CONSTANTLY put links to my website which has my name on the ABOUT ME page, PETRA LIVERANI. I switched from a screen name, flaxgirl, to my real name. It is extremely straightforward.
Please desist from your complete and utter nonsense.
The irony is, of course, Frank THAT YOU DON’T USE YOUR REAL NAME. We don’t know who you are apart from self-described polyglot and philosopher. But who are your really, Frank? Who are you?
Good points Ity.
Crap acting. Probably the same crew who “did” Woolwich in 2013, but don’t make too much of a fuss about it, particularly on your own blog, under your own name, or you are likely to have the heavy mob round. I have seen the video, and I have noticed the effect on him. It kind of reminded me, re how they turned Annie McMahon’s bloke David Shayler into a fairy. Don’t know if they used LSD or latest equiv, but the result seems pretty much the same as what happenned to Syd Barrett (Pink Floyd) and Peter Green (Fleetwood Mac), though Peter Green did eventually come back, and is still alive.
Don’t vote for any of them. They are horrible.
They make me ashamed of my country, which I used to be so proud of.
Tony
seems weird for the ‘undercover police officer’ who is seemingly removing the knife from the scene…. appears quite clearly to be about to use a cloth or tissue from his pocket to wipe the knife… seems to look across to the bus where there are witnesses filming him… hesitates, puts hankerchief back in coat pocket and begins to back away with everyone else. this seems so so suspicious in the way he is acting.. was he going to wipe it and toss it back?why would anyone workimg with the police do that if they want to retain evidence. Im glad at least this part of the internet is questioning this incident as everyone else will just believe whatever they are told.
An even bigger False Flag happened right before the EU Referendum with the fake murder of Jo Cox
How was the murder of Jo Cox fake? Are you suggesting that she wasn’t killed?
https://youtu.be/DQ85nOED-CI
That video is part 1 of 3, and is 32 minutes long. Are you actually asking me to watch 1 and a half hours of poorly made youtube videos, made by idiots who talk very slowly? Can’t you just point me to a text based explanation?
I gather you are uncomfortable with the fact that Cox wasn’t murdered so you just dismiss anything contrary to the fact.
There is compelling evidence in these videos that this was indeed the case.You just need to watch them first.
I obviously haven’t dismissed anything. If you can’t even understand the basics, then why should I trust your judgement on what is or isn’t ‘compelling evidence’.
When people won’t even attempt to argue a case, can’t argue a case, can’t or won’t even give a brief outline of an argument, but instead just repeatedly insist that I watch hours of video… well, I’ve learnt that such people can be safely ignored as having nothing to say.
ity, thanks for being rational in this comment thread.
But you yourself have ignored a possible different theory to the Jo Cox ”assassination” by deliberately avoiding these sets of videos and dismissing them first hand because,i guess it would be uncomfortable viewing.
Watch the videos,and then come back to me for a rational debate.
Insisting that I watch hours of video is not to engage in rational debate. It is just insisting that I watch hours of video. Engaging in rational debate is engaging in rational debate. You have yet to debate anything. All you have done is insist that I watch hours of video. And again you suggest that I am avoiding the videos because they might make me uncomfortable. Do you think me a dainty soul to fragile to cope with your devastating truth? Do you think me a truth denier who just can’t handle the truth? It’s not feeling uncomfortable that I worry about, but in being bored rigid by some dickhead who obviously thinks that their ideas so deep and profound that they need hours of video to express them. I mean how complex is this thing? So, if you want to explain this pet theory of yours, then go… Read more »
Most of the evidence is purely video evidence,so you have to see it with your own eyes.
PS; You seem a very bitter, and hate-filled person bytheway.
Lol. This is without doubt the most childish thing that I have yet seen on this site. Grow up.
I totally agree, he asks for evidence, I gave him a link, and he dismisses it without even watching it., he no doubt believes the explanation of 9/11, The USS Liberty. Tonkin bay, Assads poison bombs etc
As I said above, I watched a few minutes of the video that you linked to. I saw enough for me to rapidly come to the conclusion that Richard D Hall is not someone worth spending any time with. The man comes across as an idiot with a plodding brain barely able to string two thoughts together. So why on earth would I subject myself to more hours of this persons drivel? As to your; …he no doubt believes the explanation of 9/11, The USS Liberty. Tonkin bay, Assads poison bombs etc Well, this is a perfect example of the type of foggy thinking that indicates that people such as yourself should be avoided, and not engaged with. It’s people like you who give ‘conspiracy theories’ a bad name. You demonstrate no logic or critical thinking, you are insufferably tribal, and you insist that if a person doesn’t accept one… Read more »
Lunacy or Jackanory?
I wasn’t asking anything, you were the one who was asking, I gave you something to look at,if you don’t want to watch it, don’t bother.
Geoff your wasting your time. Itcy doesn’t even want to even go there as i can guarantee it does not sit well with his or her political agenda.
People like this will only question certain events when it fits their particular narrative.
As you well know, there is compelling evidence on these video’s to suggest that the Jo Cox murder was a major false flag, but you have to at least watch the video’s first and then decide.
Is that so ridiculous? Babchenko was alleged to be dead. We were even shown pics of his ‘corpse.’ If he hadn’t decided to fess up to being alive and had just started a new life somewhere we would still be getting told he was dead and people such as yourself would be indignant about suggestions to the contrary.
Fact: false flags and fake deaths DO happen. Therefore we have to consider that possibility in situations such as this.
I didn’t mean to come across as indignant, but rather just doubtful. And I was only requesting some reasoning behind the claim that she isn’t dead. And I’m not saying that fake deaths never happen, and I would certainly consider the possibility that a fake death has, or had, taken place. But is asking for some evidence, or at least a good argument making a case, really that unreasonable? And I don’t mean long, drawn out, cheesy youtube videos with a techno soundtrack. It’s just that if psychopaths wanted to create a narrative using someones death, isn’t it just easier to kill someone, rather than go to all the trouble of faking a death, and then having to spend decades having to hide that person? Look, I try and be open to any truths, however wild and wacky, but I do require at least a good argument making the case.… Read more »
Absolutely; check out ”Exit From Brexit The Jo Cox Departure”; Richard D Hall.
An even more recent series of videos from Richard Hall are ”Find Tommy”
The Jo Cox murder was almost a 99% false flag.
Requote; The Jo Cox murder was almost certainly a false flag.
So, just to get a feel for this man Richard Hall, I’ve now watched and listened to him for about 5 mins, which was as much as I could take. The man is obviously a pillock, and someone with little to say, but the urge to say it anyway. There is no way I’m watching any more of his drivel. If you want to listen to online conspiracy theorists and tellers of truth, then there are far better voices out there than that prat. Your judgement of character is seriously flawed.
I’m not watching nearly 4 hours of video on your say so. If you can’t make your case on here for your argument, and using words, then I’ll pass. Are there really no other online resources that backup what you are claiming? Surely there must be at least an article somewhere, something that will give me an idea of the argument being made?
You seem to be a particularly boneheaded sceptic ity. so I guess there’s not much point in inviting you to watch my 5-hour home-made video – “Nobody Ever Dies”. The gist of it is that in fact nobody ever dies. It’s jut a government psyop. That’s right. Everybody is in fact still alive.
Unfortunately I’m not prepared to summarize my argument for you, or explain how I know this. You just have to watch my 5-hour home-made video.
And don’t think you can just skip to the last five minutes and get some idea of it either. I thought of that. So I snipped it into 10-second segments and then strung them together in completely random order. You have to watch the whole thing and then reassemble it in the right order.
So there.
Lol. Thanks for that Stonky 😉
Remember the even more famous ”False Flag” right before the EU Referendum when Jo Cox was also supposed to be murdered?
Jackanory
So Jo Cox was ”Jackanory”and we mustn’t even question the official narrative, but we must question The London Bridge incident……………………..?
Always question the official narrative. Cox’s murder helped the state no end. It made loads of people adopt her values which played directly into the hands of the security services…..and it helped split the Labour party.
They’re jerking our strings.
Please watch this video
https://youtu.be/1aff4PiAZmk
What is going on here? Why, under such circumstances, does he seem so preoccupied with a piece of cloth? And it’s interesting that he wasn’t just an ordinary member of the public, but “By chance” (according to Sky) from the Britis Transport police.
That may be his cover story if he’s security services or plain-clothes military. Transport Police would effectively allow you to explain your presence anywhere in Britain I would think.
Please watch this video.
What is going on here with the white cloth?
Why, under such circumstances, does he seem so preoccupied with a piece of cloth? And it’s interesting that he wasn’t just an ordinary member of the public, but “By chance” (according to Sky) from the Britis Transport police.
????
As usual, the link has been deleted “by user”.
The US experience is instructive. Scientists John Mueller and Mark Stewart examined the fifty cases of Islamic terrorism in which the US was or was apparently targeted, at home or abroad in the eleven years after 9/11. Their research shattered the Department of Homeland Security’s claim that “terrorists have proven to be relentless, patient, opportunistic, and flexible, learning from experience and modifying tactics and targets to exploit perceived vulnerabilities and avoid observed strengths”.
Those arrested were in fact “incompetent, ineffective, unintelligent, idiotic, ignorant, inadequate, unorganised, misguided, muddled, amateurish, dopey, unrealistic, moronic, irrational, and foolish”. Despite warnings of thousands of al-Qaeda cells there had been a dearth of domestic terrorists and police had resorted to creating them. Operatives embedded in terrorist plots considerably outnumbered would-be terrorists. Nearly half the cases involved undercover agents grooming the gullible. https://drowningwitches.com/2017/01/15/4916/
Exactly. It’s fucking obvious when you think about it.
John Mueller and Mark G. Stewart investigated 50 ‘terror attacks’ in the US after 9/11 and found that law enforcement agents were substantially involved in grooming vulnerable individuals as patsies.generally used as patsies. It would be useful if British academics followed ‘The Terror Delusion’ . https://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/absisfin.pdf
“grooming vulnerable individuals”
And why do individuals remain ‘vulnerable’ for decades, if it is not for deliberate divisive social policies of hatred fuelled by billionaire-funded Zio-Think Tanks emanated from the US?
Concerning the man photographed with the knife, the Groan has given this, at 15:51; British Transport police have confirmed that a in a suit man filmed running away from the scene with a knife taken from the attacker was one of their officers in plain clothes. “We are able to confirm that a serving British Transport Police officer was involved in yesterday’s terror incident on London Bridge in the City of London. The officer, who was in plain clothes and who is based in London, helped other members of the public in detaining the suspect and preventing any further killings. He is seen in social media videos, holding a knife and walking away from the scene as City of London firearms officers arrive”. They also added… The Metropolitan Police Service have asked that his image be pixelated, and we are kindly asking the public and media to respect this request… Read more »
That tells you quite a bit. If he really were a regular ole policeman, why *should* his identity be kept hidden? This reeks of MI5-6 counterintel.
Evidently, this “police officer” never received any training in preserving evidence at a crime scene.
Or perhaps he has received in depth training in obfuscating evidence when running a hoax.
Post Skripal, why does anyone still believe any official narrative (aka lies)?
“Terrorists” only show up when, and where, it is convenient.
Not just a UK thing.
Having read the information in the comments it seems the Fishmongers Hall where this story begins was founded in 1381 by the man who plunged a knife into Wat Tyler to end the Peasants Revolt. Knowing how symbolism is very important to the elite, I can’t help thinking this charade was to symbolically put an end to Corbyn’s chances of election ie. to end the modern peasant’s revolt?
a mouse in my flat was getting kind of casual and a little content with the situation .
i went on youtube and played some eagle noises and owl ones .
the reaction was instant shock awe and panic those primal noises activated or reactivated somethging deep within the rodents matrix.
he is now corrected every now and again i have too play the owl noise thus re enforcing the meme keep him nervous and on his paws toes.
these are my version of msm bbc tavistock mind based corrective programming.
trauma horror terror
owls certainly are very important in sum circles
great in all aspects.
Was this man Usman an MI5 agent from the getgo? Was he recruited after his first failed terror attempt? Or before it?
Is he really dead? There is a gif OffG shared on twitter that seems to show Usman sitting up after having been shot dead. I can’t vouch for it, but the location and other visual clues fit with it being genuine. The video the gif is taken from seems to have been shot from across the road presumably from inside a building. If it’s genuine the whole thing is revealed as a hoax.
Perhaps one of those famous “exercises” that always seem to coincide with false-flag ops.
It has already had an impact for the BBC. They were refusing to allow johnson a slot on the Andrew Marr show unless he faced Andrew Neil.
Now… ‘in the wake of a major terrorist incident, we believe it is now in the public interest that the prime minister should be interviewed on our flagship Sunday political programme’
Perhaps they should change the word interviewed to fellated.
Now see what you have done. How on earth are we supposed to erase that mental image?
The BBC had been playing hardball with Boris Johnson, for a change, by insisting that if Johnson wanted to be interviewed by Andrew Marr, then he must also agree to be interviewed by Andrew Neil. Obviously Johnson is happy to be interviewed by that Tory twat Andrew Marr, but he’s been desperately trying to avoid being interviewed by Andrew Neil. However… From the Guardian today at 13:01 – BBC allows Boris Johnson interview on Andrew Marr Show, and after the terrorist attack, the broadcaster drops the Andrew Neil condition for Marr appearance. In a statement, the BBC said that after the terrorist attack on London Bridge, it believed there was a public interest in Johnson appearing on the show, but it repeated its request for him to face Neil. “As the national public service broadcaster, the BBC’s first priority must be its audience,” the statement said. “In the wake of… Read more »
A “national public service broadcaster”? About as truthful a statement as its reporting on the Labour Party.
Same goes for another “public service broadcaster” (the one in Australia).
a short video on zero hedge shows a man on top of the alleged attacker being pulled off him by an armed policeman thus clearing a way for the officer(s) to shoot him.
Better acting training was reserved for the White Helmets.
Note also that the perp didn’t make any moves before the cops murdered him.
Sounds a bit like the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes.
If I had enough resources, I would investigate to find out what signals (all kinds of messages and signals) were sent to the attacker, what was sent to him via all the devices that he uses, and where the signals/messages originated from.
I don’t know if anyone here is familiar with the hypnotist and entertainer Darren Brown, but he’s made various programs exploring and demonstrating just how easy it is to manipulate and control the human mind, and so human behaviour. And he’s taken this to quite extreme levels. A most interesting demonstration of his involved getting a man to assassinate Stephen Fry in a public theater. Using various methods of hypnotism, suggestion, and trigger signals, and an elaborate setup using pistol blanks and knowing accomplices, he actually had this man stand up on cue, and fire several shots directly at Stephen Fry. So how hard can it be to control a person who is already violent and angry? If an entertainer can persuade a member of the public to murder a national treasure, we can be pretty sure that these skills are known to secret services across the world. As is… Read more »
“So how hard can it be to control a person who is already violent and angry? ”
Better still:
How hard is it to make a person violent and angry?
The plan would be to make the person angry, isolated and disfranchised in the first place.
And then keep pushing and pulling various triggers in order to drive the person into desperation ..
– How to make a person or a groupd of people, angry, isolated and disfranchised?
– Enlist Murdoch’s press and various controlled media to do it. They are masters in this field!
Yes, perhaps, but surely making a person angry, isolated and disfranchised in the first place, is not the same as using someone in a precise and controlled manner to further a false flag operation.
2 step procedure:
step 1: make a person angry, isolated and disfranchised, including:
step 1.a: deny this person recourse to justice
step 1.b: descrimiate against this person in subtle and not so subtle manners
step 2: now the person is emotionally weak/disturbed, use this person in a precise and controlled manner to further a false flag operation
are you kidding the character sim whatever he was
was a guest at fishmongers hall a pre crime event
other characters that fought the battle with him where also ex convicts real or sim.
they including the sbs marine guy with the unbloodied knife where all special guests at an event
on foreign soil outside the kings reach in the city of london
no loners no angry travis bickles charlie mansons just pure bad actors performing black friday
kaballa magic rituals
Who is this national treasure, surely not Stephen Fry?
Ha! I was using the term ‘national treasure’ in a slightly ironic way, and so should perhaps have used inverted commas in my original post. or just not used the phrase in the first place. Having said that, I don’t personally have a problem with Stephen Fry… he seems harmless enough, and can be quite entertaining.
Not sure I totally buy this. Derren Brown is a lot of things, and hugely talented, but I think his biggest skill is as a “stage magician”, and the main skill involved is misdirection and showmanship. He probably also has some genuine skills in hypnotism, but I think that is pretty limited in what it can do.
Chances are the person who shot at Fry was another accomplice, and probably a very good actor.
Haven’t seen any of Derren Brown’s recent stuff, but I was very impressed by his Russian Roulette stunt, which seemed very convincing at the time, but I later became convinced was fake from beginning to end. At the end of the day, he is an entertainer, and a very very good one. Good luck to him.
His powers of hypnotism and suggestion do seem very impressive. But of course there is a long and detailed vetting process for his stunts, aiming to get people who are naturally suggestible but also psychologically robust.
And one thing I like about him is that he is very open about how he operates. Part of his shtick is in revealing how his tricks are done. I don’t believe that he used an accomplice to shoot at Fry; it just doesn’t seem his style. But, who knows. I must hunt the episode down and watch it again.
London Bridge / Fishmongers Hall = City of London – The Ancient City. The perpetrator ‘executed’ like Jean Charles at Stockwell. The identity and back story of the perp instantly available – just like the passport FBI found at WTC… ———– It is clear that there is clear panic at the number of new voters registered upto cut off, this means that their planned ballot stuffing is looking to become ineffectual. The Prince Andrew story cleared the pages the previous weekend as the free broadband policy got the propagandist on the hop and Bobo lost first debate with Jezza. Last weekend was about light pollution/Elon Musk breaking Tesla windows and lurid details of death of Brit in NZ – just after the Friday QT special which bobo lost again and Corbyn announced his neutrality on confirmatory referendum. This weekend – after Chief rabbit and troublesom archie and Neil failed to… Read more »
And we’ve still got 11 days to go! Hell – this is going to be the biggest blockbuster of all time. I hope someone has got the copyright sorted out for the eventual multi-pack DVD set!
It may help to acknowledge that there are psychopaths among those who manipulate the human mind. Psychopathy is borderline with psychoanalysis. Since the psychoanalyst (kind of) knows what makes humans tick, the findings can then be applied to manipulate the masses. All the more so, since it is to be expected that the psychopaths among the psychoanalysts will play this knowledge out without the slightest remorse or any considerations about ‘collateral damages’, or other adverse effects to their actions. ‘Their’ actions, because it should be obvious that all these ‘events’ are not some random acts of anger. There are psychopathic analysts planning events like this to be carried out by willful henchmen. Here comes the hint that is needed to understand what is happening: It is not important what happened. It is important what people believe happened. This is where ‘make believe’ is played out to the full extend. At… Read more »
“it will not be possible to cheat it into hiding the truth for ever”
Not forever, but it seems it is possible to go on long enough for evils to achieve all their goals.
Yes, sometimes it is a multi-generational thing. To the grandchildren is revealed what the grandparents could not figure out, but bought into at the the time. This seems to be the reason why stuff gets ‘opened’ a hundred years later.
all tavistock country of the mind sy co operations
where did the 7 and 7 bus thing happen outside tavistock hq
who was in the same street in a building at the exact moment
bb nuttyahoo
what are the chances
Usman’s earlier adventures as cardboard cutout jihadi documented here:
Cartoonish terror plot gang jailed for being archetypal bogeymen, UK’s security apparatus also clownish:
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2017/12/cartoonish-terror-plot-gang-jailed-for-being-archetypal-bogeymen-uks-security-apparatus-also-clownish/
It just cannot be a Muslim fanatic: theoretically and practically impossible. Barely anyone in C of E UK follows Islamist ideology. Next Islam is the religion of peace: just look what happened after Mo passed in the ME, Asia and Africa – peace pick-nicks, recent local grooming rings or Calais.
No more racist, capitalist rich slave owner European/Israeli white man’s ranting. The victims had enough suppression of hate speech and militia training, now it is their turn.
I would say that hate speech and militia training is what they were given by “the Free West” so they cold serve as a convenient enemy.
Known to police, geo-tagged attacker subdued, disarmed, then shot dead? 4/10 MI5 or SB. Must do better even to fool the yobs, let alone us thinkers…False Flag 101 for Dummies.
Cressida ‘Gold’ DickHeadShot ..again!!???
Why do the police need to shoot and kill a disarmed, restrained man, especially when one of the officers reportedly had a taser?
You mean like Oswald and Epstein?
To silence him …
Exactly, they had.to pull the ‘member of the public’ off him, so they could shoot him.
Why not take over, cuff, and take into custody?
Additional, how come the ‘off duty Police officer’ who disarmed him and ran off with said knife, wasn’t shot as an accplice? AND why did he run off, rather than identify himself and help with arrest?
Plus what was the answer to the ‘member of the public’ restraining him question about if he was intending to set off a bomb?
“Why do the police need to shoot and kill a disarmed, restrained man .. ?”
You’ve got use these gadgets from time to time to justify budgetary requests for more. Let’s see what brand that gun was, and how many more will be on order soon!
So he couldn’t get his best actor award.
Tuneful canaries must be silenced.
Ponder about what would happen when the hypnosis stops. Can’t let that happen.
Or: It’s all fake and everything making any critical thinking moot is applied. The human brain can easily be manipulated. Both – of the victims and the perpetrators.
Thus, you wouldn’t know what happened even if you would be present at the scene at the time of whatever happened. Paris was a glaring example for that method.
Not to be taken too seriously, but
Isn’t it time that all citizens be equipped with body cams?
Given that it’s about 95% probability that he’d been recruited by MI5/6 since his previous arrest, it makes good sense to shoot him. Dead men tell no tales.
What’s interesting is the comment from the Parole Board, funnily enough on the grotesque Daily Heil:
‘The Parole Board can confirm it had no involvement with the release of the individual identified as the attacker, who appears to have been released automatically on licence (as required by law), without ever being referred to the Board.’
How does a convicted terrorist offender get automatically released after 8 years of a 16 year sentence in such a way? Was he “trained” to go and do this by “handlers”? Are there more of them and part of this “programme”?
I know as a fact releasing or keeping prisoners inside can be determined by HMRC or the security services
Like Assange?
I believe that prisoners currently have to do half of their sentence inside, with good behaviour. It’s a question of logistics. There are so many people in prison, they either have to build new ones or let them out sooner, although I’m sure the Tories were on about making some prisoners do two-thirds of their sentence as used to happen.
Dangerous criminals like Julian Assange? Had been scheduled for release (from a minor arguable ‘offence’ of evading bail) in September but deemed to be a risk if released. It’s got to be more desirable to have convicted terrorists roaming the streets than someone like him. Maybe the Tories should reconsider their priorities.
lundiel, I agree with what you say, but this came to mind as soon as I read your comments!
I think it’s probably more of a failure of the system than a conspiracy to let him out on this occasion. The whole system is falling apart due to austerity and incompetents and lunatics in charge of the asylum.
Yes, we’re following in America’s footsteps. Politicians are on to a winner being “tough on crime” therefore, more prison places must be found and no matter how many new prisons you build, they will always be full. The criminal justice system is an economy of scale, hence the LibDems and Tories want to outsource as much of it as possible…. there’s money to be made.
They could release Julian to make some room.
Yes, he shouldn’t be in prison at all but as he is, it should be an open prison not Belmarsh. His “offence” is petty and he has no previous.
I suppose, Frank, by applying very much the same criteria as in the manner that a journalist can be held in prison and incommunicado after his tariff is served (for exposing and publishing war crimes for the world to see) on discredited trumped up charges of alleged rape and being declared a bail jumper.