Coronavirus: The only thing spreading “exponentially” is fear
Fewer people are sick each day, and yet there’s no sign of panic abating
Kit Knightly
Shall we start off this little overview with some cold hard facts? Not the ones about death rates, and the flu, and clinical diagnosis. We’ve done that. A lot.
No this is just simple maths; There are, according to official estimates, fewer people with coronavirus today, than yesterday.
That has been true every day since February 17th.
Here’s a graph showing global “active cases”:
Here’s a graph showing the number of daily new diagnoses with the number of daily recoveries:
Here’s a graph showing the daily change in death rate vs the daily change in recovery rate:
To sum up, according to official estimates, every day for over two weeks, fewer people have the disease, a smaller percentage of people are dying of the disease and MORE people are recovering from the disease.
Nobody in the media is talking about this.
Instead, we constantly see “coronavirus cases reach 95,000” in the headlines, without adding the corollary that 54,000 of those people are already better.
When the media aren’t ignoring the less-than-intimidating statistics, they’re trying to re-purpose them. The Atlantic recently published an article literally headlined Greece, where only 31 people have even been diagnosed (nobody has yet died).
California, ever a panic waiting to happen, is declaring a state of emergency over their 53 cases. One man has died, he was old and had “underlying health issues”. But still…emergency.
There’s money to be made in panic, of course. The IMF and World Bank, ever the harbingers or harmony and not at all opportunistic vultures, are ready to ride in on a white horse:
the International Monetary Fund and World Bank issued a joint statement saying they stood ready to help the worst affected countries by providing “emergency financing, policy advice, and technical assistance”.
Some good old “emergency finance” will help out any country that needs to protect itself from disease. Don’t worry, you’ll have it paid off in a few decades. Maybe.
In America, the same Senate so frequently asking Bernie Sanders how he intends to pay for his healthcare plans, just approved 8 BILLION dollars in emergency spending for the coronavirus. For those of you interested, that’s 56 million dollars per infected US citizen.
From what we know of bloated US government contracts, this money will be filed through lobbyists to medical supply and emergency measures companies, on whose board a surprising number of current and/or former senators sit.
In Italy, 7.5 billion Euros is being “made available” for “families and businesses” affected. The question of how much goes to families, and how much to businesses, is a key one. One the media will probably never answer.
And behind all of that, the authoritarians, mouths watering, drip poison into the public ear:
Harsh measures horrify civil libertarians, but they often save lives, especially when they are imposed in the early days.
That was in the New York Times.
Any coronavirus ‘lockdown’ would initially be voluntary
Adds The Guardian (they don’t say how long this “initial” voluntary period will last).
The Atlantic goes further, laying out plans to mitigate the “worst case scenario” covering information:
A single trusted source should inform the public what we know about COVID-19, what we don’t know, and what we’ll do to find out what we don’t know.
Emergency powers:
Congress must provide the FDA with the authority needed to prevent and mitigate medical supply-chain disruptions.
And quarantine:
Social distancing may become the norm, as governments and organizations close schools, halt mass transit, and cancel sports, entertainment, religious, and political gatherings. People could be quarantined in their homes, medical facilities, apartments, or dormitories.
It’s clear a certain type of person is in love with the world this lie-stoked fear will enable them to build. In some ways, they have already won.
The public is long past accepting social media companies working hand-in-hand with the state to block “misinformation” and “boost” official sources.
Further, even if the virus continues to decline, the powers that be – and their talking heads – will simply claim (as many already are) that China’s total authoritarian control saved lives.
That’s the real campaign here. A power play for draconian social control in the name of public health. For now, as the Guardian helpfully reminds us, it’s voluntary. But the implied threat behind that is obvious: As things get more serious, that will change.
After all, this is just a virus – and a comparatively minor one – if we’re happy to see our governments take draconian measures to halt this…what about more significant threats?
Why don’t we treat the climate crisis with the same urgency as coronavirus?
…asks Owen Jones in today’s Guardian. He is not alone.
Well, maybe one day soon we will Owen. Won’t that be nice.
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Well, here’s my two-pennyworth for what it’s worth: as with all new infectious diseases, covid-19, like ‘regular’ flu, will need to infect pretty much the entire human population, eventually. As the Russian virologist said, at first, it’s “the meeting of strangers”. That is to say, both the human immune system and the virus itself, adjust to each other when they meet, over time. We accommodate the virus and the virus adjusts (mutates/evolves) to survive within us but for the most part without killing us, else it guarantees its own extinction (no host, no virus). Unfortunately, this particular virus attacks the old with underlying medical conditions and/or compromised immune systems particulary badly but what seems to be the case, is that it’s far less dangerous than SARS was. The consensus seems to be that it has a death rate of about 2% or so (SARS 10%) but unfortunately, concentrated in the… Read more »
I guess it is worth tuppence!
Well that’s two pence more than yours
Of possible interest to some: ‘Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) fatality rate: WHO and media vs logic and mathematics.’
And then the author’s dashboard: https://avatorl.org/covid-19/
Go to p10 of 28 for ‘Forecast confirmed cases based on last week daily growth’. Under ‘Countries’ scroll down and click United Kingdom for a mathematically based forecast of the number of confirmed cases by 14 March.
No idea at all how valid this approach is in the real world but it seems that anything in 3 figures would be a result.
1140 on 14 March, so no result.
The forecast is now on p11 of the dashboard. Based on the weekly growth up to yesterday’s 801 cases, the forecast for 19 March is 3135. That forecast seems likely to rise when today’s increase is taken into account. But as last week’s forecast ran at around 25% below expectations, less than 3000 by 19 March could be considered a result.
Exponential growth in epidemics is clearly explained in this video.
3269 on 19 March, so no result.
It’s doubled in 2 days and trebled in 5 days.
This is where the exponential growth of Covid-19 in the UK starts to get scary. The forecast for 24 March on avatorl.org/covid-19 is 11,843.
So anything less than 10,000 would be a result.
A result? Another 1427 cases today but the accumulative total stands at 3766 less than avatorl.org’s forecast over the 5 days.
Expert modellers, e.g. John Burn-Murdoch and Adam Kucharski, say that for various reasons (including testing rates) the growth in accumulative cases is a less reliable indicator of a pandemic’s progression than the growth in accumulative deaths. As well as the highest number of new cases in a day, we’ve also had the highest number of deaths (87).
Based on the daily growth in deaths for the week up to 23 March (when total UK deaths stood at 336), avatorl.org forecast 434 deaths by today (actual total: 422) and 1561 by 29 March. But based on the current trebling rate (144 – 422 in the past 5 days), realistically it looks as if we could be looking at accumulative deaths standing at around 1200 by the 29th.
Deaths OF or deaths WITH?
And how diagnosed? PCR or just a chest CT or both?
Those numbers, all the numbers, are meaningless without knowing any of these factors
Firstly, I disagree with Admin1 that the numbers are meaningless without knowing the factors behind them. It would certainly be helpful to have the additional technical information, but in the midst of a crisis of these proportions it’s unlikely to be forthcoming. I maintain that the numbers are indicative of a pandemic that is growing exponentially and will continue do so because there’s currently no drug treatment, a shortage of vital equipment and PPE, no vaccination in the foreseeable future, and a woeful lack of government preparedness around the world (with the exception of countries such as Taiwan who learnt the lessons from SARS-1). Whilst avatorl.org’s forecasts continue to be a little excessive, my own forecast of “around 1200 by the 29th” was close to the mark (1226). The average daily growth rate over the past 3 days was 28.6% but it was down to 20.3% yesterday. Assuming it remains… Read more »
So avatorl.org’s forecast of 3527 UK deaths on 3 April proved reasonably accurate (actual: 3605).
In New York State the total deaths did indeed “nudge 3000 deaths” (actual: 2935) with an average 3-day growth rate of 23.7%.
In the USA there were “over 6000 deaths by 3 April” (actual: 6053) with an average 3-day growth rate of 24.2%.
There’s little to suggest that today’s totals won’t treble again by 8 April, i.e. UK: 8763, USA: 18159, NYS: 8805.
avatorl.org forecasts (now on p16 of his dashboard) UK: 11714 and USA: 23146.
They’re now going for socialist Portugal…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/08/coronavirus-live-updates-third-death-in-australia-as-cases-reach-more-than-70?page=with:block-5e653e968f085f0b8d9448e5#block-5e653e968f085f0b8d9448e5
Trump was recently present at a political rally where someone in the audience has since tested positive. Rumour has it that he’s asked the NRA to call by the White House and shoot him in the foot because otherwise he just can’t help sneaking into the executive kitchen after bedtime tweets and microwaving himself a couple of the emergency Big Mac supplies. Could infect the chef from drool on the fridge or microwave door handles. Has contacted Skripal for useful tips.
Those who are pushing the story of this epidemic.
What other stories have they told us in the last 30 years?
All I want is a comparison of current seasonal flu stats v. Covid19. Can’t find it. As of today 3000+ deaths worldwide, yet 16000 deaths from ordinary flu, only in the US. And they’re telling me Covid is the killer? I don’t care about “death rate”. Rabies is ~99.9%. Are we cowering in our kennels? Ebola is 20%. Are we Out of Africa. I want to know the comparison. Otherwise how can they tell me it’s dangerous? Flu vaccine 29% effective, ie useless. Covid has no vaccine, so what?
Here in Smile Siam, 1 dead, 44 cases. No flu stats anywhere. But face masks and antiseptic very expensive. I smell a rat.
If I survive this plague, I’ll call tomorrow.
Reviews of past studies have found that, on average, the flu vaccine is about 50% to 60% effective for healthy adults who are between 18 and 64 years old.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000
So, even with 60% effectiveness 16,000 Americans died, meaning that Covid19 “unleashed” has killed fewer, yet its fame (infamy) dominates the headlines.
My point is that this plague is vastly overstated for political and commercial purposes. Eg, Deaths from heart disease 500,000, cancer 500,000, etc – 10,000 per day! and not a word in the news. Bee stings – 89 (2017) but no-one warned me!
The 145 Italian deaths was shocking, until you find their ages – almost all > 75. Can we compare all >75 yr old deaths to get a better picture?
Again, the virulence and mortality of Covid19 has not been compared to other known “killers” so we can’t form an opinion let alone take a position on its importance.
The overwhelming majority of the flu deaths were of people who were not vaccinated, so your argument doesn’t hold water.
You said the vaccine is 40-60% , so ~40% of those vaccinated still got flu. How many of the vaccinated died? How many of the unvaccinated caught flu? How many of those died? Perhaps my argument is now better framed.
Also, your sources for the unvaccinated?
For example:
Source:
https://www.aappublications.org/news/2019/11/08/mmwr110819
Do you note the words ‘associated with’? That means there was a co-morbidity, another cause of death. These kids were not dying of flu – very few people do. They were dying of something else PLUS flu. What that something else was is a big factor not discussed.
How can someone who distrusts every arm of government and sees what they are doing to control populations possibly be in favor of mass vaccine programs?
Note that even in cases where the vaccine didn’t prevent people from catching the flu, the vaccine considerably mitigated the severity of the flu compared to the severity of the flu in unvaccinated people.
Non of the MSM is looking for comparative data on mortality amongst >75, or the locations of these death. They are only interested in fear-mongering, needed to cover up financial failure.
1. Who made the estimates?
2.Who funded them?
3. Why would any healthy person under 65 get vaccinated for the regular flu?
“I smell a rat.”
Not as keenly as the rat smells you.
Consider the possibility that this virus gets into the population in many regions as just another one of the endemic seasonal flu varieties. And further, that it’s possible that’s not by accident.
As someone who has the virus, I’m in a position to shed some light on some points that have come up. The thing goes straight for your lungs. Never caught a “flu” that was so focused on the lungs. Videos of people collapsing unconscious on the street are consistent with the extreme fatigue. You don’t see rich people collapsing because they can afford not to go to work when they start to feel ill. This is a tough bug. But I believe the guy who posted Vitamin C info, has the right idea. I’m on my 2nd kilogram of the stuff. Are the fears exaggerated? Is it being over-hyped? I’m basically a germaphobe. I did more than most people would do to prevent catching this thing. And I got it anyway. No way would I have caught a normal flu taking all the precautions I took. It’s fucking contagious. I… Read more »
Well I’m convinced.
The “thing” went straight for your lungs. Sorry, individual anecdotal story is not evidence. Bring me 100 more corpses.
So far: 2,959 deaths Hubei Mainland China 233 deaths Italy 145 deaths Iran 44 deaths South Korea 22 deaths Henan Mainland China 15 deaths King County, WA US 13 deaths Heilongjiang Mainland China 11 deaths France 10 deaths Spain 8 deaths Beijing Mainland China 7 deaths Guangdong Mainland China 6 deaths Japan 6 deaths Anhui Mainland China 6 deaths Chongqing Mainland China 6 deaths Hainan Mainland China 6 deaths Hebei Mainland China 6 deaths Shandong Mainland China 6 deaths “Diamond Princess” cruise ship 4 deaths Iraq 4 deaths Hunan Mainland China 3 deaths Shanghai Mainland China 3 deaths Sichuan Mainland China 3 deaths Tianjin Mainland China 3 deaths Xinjiang Mainland China 2 deaths Hong Kong Hong Kong 2 deaths Gansu Mainland China 2 deaths Guangxi Mainland China 2 deaths Guizhou Mainland China 2 deaths Yunnan Mainland China 2 deaths UK 1 deaths New South Wales Australia 1 deaths Western Australia… Read more »
Verified how, and who by ?
Appunto! Exactement! Exactly!
What a vast consumption of space used to plaster unfounded statistics. Looks suspiciously propagandistic.
Probably, but doesn’t answer my question: Covid19 compared to Seasonal Flu. 16,000+ US deaths for annual flu – no panic, no quarantine, no “news”. Half a dozen Covid19 (love the name, very sci-fi) dead and the country falls, China stops with 3000 dead, Italy collapses with 150 dead old folks?
US road deaths 40,000, opioid suicides 50,000, homicides 5,000, yet the country has not collapsed every year!
I smell a PR rat.
If someone shows antibodies for the CV19 disease would it be recorded as the cause of death or would the underlying health condition be the cause? Just wondering if CV19 infections are the cause or a background factor?
“Sorry, individual anecdotal story is not evidence.” At an individual patient level, all reports of the progress of an unwellness, for all forms of unwellness of any sort, are all ‘just’ anecdotal evidence, whether reported via/by medical professionals or directly by patients. What you are asking for are correlations, where r damned near =1 (or some meaningless, arbitrary number of individual statistics such as 100, which is even worse). In a highly variable, extremely complex organism such as a hominid, you won’t, in most cases, find it, which is why those on the front line of medicine–which might better be called the primary referral line of medicine–i.e. those such as ‘general practitioners’ (also known as family doctors, house doctors, etc) have the hardest job in the medical field, attracting the least praise and most blame for, respectively, apparently correct and apparently faulty diagnoses or onward referrals (as well as, often,… Read more »
Good luck, C. Hope you get over it soon. I don’t know about China. Maybe you or someone else can help me with this – The Dog That Didn’t Bark. Supposedly it’s being brought under control in China now. Supposedly the number of new cases has tailed off from 4,000 a day to 100 a day, and it’s all over bar the shouting. If this is true, that’s great. But if it is, I’d expect to see MSM pieces on things getting back to normal in Wuhan. People cheerfully going about their business in Wuhan High Street. Happy Chinese workers getting back to the sweatshop and beavering away, grafting to turn out more plastic widgets for Poundland and Walmart. Interviews with Dr. Wong and Dr. Wang about how they’d defeated the deadly disease. But there hasn’t been anything. Nada. Zilch. Nothing. Which suggests to me that’s not the current reality.… Read more »
Go on then CH1. Which test was used to confirm ? Which country are you in ?
The fallacy of otherwise of this article’s main contention will be determined by the ‘growth factor of daily new cases’, particularly of those outside China.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/#case-growth-outchina
This suggests that the rate of transmission is presently on the borderline of exponential growth.I hope I’m wrong but my money is on an imminent upswing.
Scroll up for an explanation of how the growth factor is calculated.
“This suggests that the rate of transmission is presently…”
Very useful link, especially in combination with the other sections than “#case-growth-outchina” (scroll down for a list). Thanks. As time passes and observations proceed, I would be interested to see, in particular, the numbers for another factor and the (lab?) results of a second:
.
“Very useful link…”
Actually present in Kit’s article and the source of his graphs, but not there made explicit as a repository of useful raw statistics.
“This suggests that the rate…”
See “sequential analysis”.
Yes it has the potential to see further growth – outside China – which could lead to significant deaths. We do need to keep this under control as much as possible. I don’t want my elderly relatives falling victim to it and neither would anyone else.
You’ve not met my family … 🙂
WHO COVID-19 Situation Report 47, 7 March.
Figure 2. Epidemic curve of confirmed COVID-19 cases reported outside of China (n=21,110), by date of report and WHO region through 07 March 2020.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200307-sitrep-47-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=27c364a4_4
I think the title of this piece is wrong. It’s not the panic that isn’t abating. It’s the panic mongering. The MSM has metaphorically been jabbing the public with cattle prodders. And they have no intention of stopping.
Many comments but nobody is pointing out an obvious fault on the reasoning of this article. “To sum up, according to official estimates, every day for over two weeks, fewer people have the disease, a smaller percentage of people are dying of the disease and MORE people are recovering from the disease.” Figures are not just figures, the way you look at them matters. If you want to give people some meaningful understanding of what is happening, you need to leave China’s figures out. China has basically shut down the country, stopped the economy, using martial law to contain the spread of the virus. They are doing this with good results, which means there are many more thousands of people recovering from the disease every day, than there are new affected people. Being the number of people tested positive in China still much higher than the number of people affected… Read more »
Isn’t it strange that parts of Italy and Spain are now going into ‘lock-down’, areas that are highly rebellious against the Empire.
I don’t know about Spain, but that part of Italy that is going into lock-down is very much with the Empire.
“In March 2019, Italy signed a memorandum of understanding with China on the BRI. This culminated a long-standing economic relationship spanning decades, that was punctuated by finance minister Giovanni Tria’s August 2018 visit to China. Although Tria may have quickened the process, Italy’s political class were already in agreement about the merits of deepening relations with Beijing.”
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/05/20/why-did-italy-embrace-belt-and-road-initiative-pub-79149
“Chinese President Xi Jinping just returned from a visit to Europe to promote the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), China’s unprecedented plan to expand its geopolitical reach. As Rome and Beijing signed a major deal on the BRI, several European leaders expressed alarm about the agreement’s ability to divide Europe.”
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/chinas-belt-and-road-gets-win-italy
CFR-Council on Foreign Relations, ie Imperial agit-prop. They can all join the BRI, the only divisive force being the USA.
“Resisting pressure from Washington and Brussels, who fear the already heavily indebted and economically uncertain NATO member might be walking into a debt trap, Italy on March 23rd became the first G7 country to join China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Consequently, this act throws the unity of the G7 into question and intensifying tensions between Italy and its neighbors. China and Italy signed over two dozens accords worth as much as €22 billion.”
https://medium.com/goods-services/chinas-belt-and-road-gets-a-massive-victory-in-italy-ecaf32cb7789
No Chinese ‘debt trap’ exists. That is a lie peddled by the same scum who brought the very real debt traps laid by the IMF and World Bank, for decades. The hypocrisy and projection is stupendous.
Thanks for making that succinct clear headed argument. I’ve just read all OffG’s articles on this topic and they are not making sense. In fact they are rather arrogantly claiming to have outsmarted the world’s most experienced epidemiologists, which is quite a stupid position to take. [ No. We are simply pointing out the official data that contradicts the panic memes. This person on the other hand is merely using appeals to authority to undermine these data -ed] In one article they claim that the Spanish Flu killed 10-20% of those who contracted it and provided a link which clearly states, “It is estimated that one third of the global population was infected,[2] and the World Health Organization estimates that 2–3% of those who were infected died” [ False. The Wikipedia and CDC articles we linked to both state that 500 million people were infected with Spanish Flu and 50-100… Read more »
Figures are not just figures, the way you look at them matters. Couldn’t agree more, Guido. And the way I look at them is, “What supports any figures in any way at all.” I’ve just become acquainted with the comments of Tony who is obviously very knowledgeable about viruses and he says the virus cannot be identified in alleged sufferers. So right off the bat, we have a massive problem with the figures, don’t we? Virus cannot be isolated to be used to identify sufferers. https://off-guardian.org/2020/02/29/media-whipping-covid19-panic-to-unprecedented-heights/#comment-123893 Then we have the problem that we have not been shown anyone we can believe to be a genuine sufferer. We have been shown people falling flat on their faces, lying on the ground outside and in hospitals and crying uncontrollably. We have also been shown someone who claims she is asymptomatic but her interview contains a number of anomalies. https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/05/coronavirus-the-only-thing-spreading-exponentially-is-fear/#comment-124389 For an hypothesis… Read more »
Agreed, the numbers cannot make sense as the test for diagnosis is faulty. And if you combine a faulty test (that sometimes turns out positive just by mistake) multiplied by the number of people who are tested for COVID 19, you get your exponential increase of people tested positive for COVID 19 Btw, the comment: ‘ In fact they are rather arrogantly claiming to have outsmarted the world’s most experienced epidemiologists, which is quite a stupid position to take.’ is a quite stupid comment also known as the argument from authority. I am also amazed that all these people who seem to know that COVID 19 is for real do not support extra experiments that can make clear whether this is COVID 19 is for real or a hoax, that is by testing a large unselected group of individuals on COVID 19 follow those who are tested positive through time… Read more »
“Figures are not just figures, the way you look at them matters.”
See https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/05/coronavirus-the-only-thing-spreading-exponentially-is-fear/#comment-124773
That is NOT ‘..the state of life in China, now more than ever’. You’ve been well brainwashed by the racist and Orientalist Sinophobic propaganda, that’s all.
Acte 69 here in France today, the 69th consecutive week of massive protests (against neoliberalism) all across the country. Here’s a shot of the protest in Paris today… https://twitter.com/CharlesBaudry/status/1236268811646631936 The point I’m trying to make here is that no one on this protest is wearing a mask to protect from the Frankenstein flu; and I can testify, as someone who lives in rural France, that no one here is wearing masks, either, and there’s been no panic buying, and they’re still all doing the shaking hands and kissing on the cheek stuff. In otherwords, just about all the French are treating covid 19 for the total rollocks it is, and they know it’s just being used to clamp down on dissent. The only time French protestors do wear face masks is when they are being hit with CRS tear gas, as happened in Lyon today (there were also similar scenes… Read more »
Obviously those awfully concerned media guardians are going to have to try harder to protect our non-compliant ungrateful public. I suggest they put the first episode of “Walking Dead” on a continuous loop and sell it as a documentary.
Wearing masks doesn’t protect one against Covid-19, as all the well-informed know.
Does wearing a mask protect one from bullshit?
It certainly cannot protect one from your bullshit.
Ah but will it protect me from your puerile little hi-tech raspberry loops?
What you think are my “puerile little hi-tech raspberry loops” is just the stench of your own pathological flatulence.
Shall we abandon this not-very-useful exchange of insults?
It worked!
Actually, when worn correctly (which includes no facial hair) some facemasks do provide “a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier”, as The Guardian has rightly stated, in line with the limited research evidence that’s available and the DoH’s own 2014 evidence base review ‘The Use of Facemasks and Respirators during an Influenza Pandemic’. This states on p49, para 2, second sentence:
“The evidence base for community settings suggests that face masks, when combined with hand-hygiene practices often provide some level of protection, more so than when just one intervention was applied independently”, and cites 3 research papers that support this.
Ya think?
Influenza and Covid-19 are two entirely different things.
Think again:
Agreed that there’s a difference between flu and coronavirus but their primary infection pathways are similar, i.e. airborne particles. Whilst flimsy surgical masks provide little or no protection, N95/FFP2 and N99/FFP3 masks may provide some.
Again, that’s an excellent video you posted but I don’t think Dr L’vov would disagree that – used correctly, and in combination with other PPE, e.g. goggles and disposable gloves, and social distancing etc – N95/99 masks may provide more protection than using nothing.
“Wearing masks doesn’t protect one against Covid-19, as all the well-informed know.” Yes and no. Ordinary surgical masks (gauze with a couple of bits of elastic to go around the ears) are pretty good at keeping infections of the wearer away from others (which is why they are adequate for surgery where only or very much mostly the patient is at particular risk of infection), but for general use they have to be put on and taken off correctly. Properly fitted, certified respirators are much better and–except for those with exhalation bypass valves–work both ways, but are bothersome to keep well fitted, unsuitable for some people (e.g. those with breathing difficulties or even just beards) and are not easy to put up with for many others. Surgical respirators, which are designed to keep both medics and patients protected from each other, have all the problems of ordinary respirators and then… Read more »
You obviously didn’t watch the video I posted above.
“You obviously didn’t watch the video I posted above.” I did watch the video above, and I have just wasted 18 minutes of my life–now as scarce for me as it is for the old guy in the interview (except he got paid for it) with whom I am in no disagreement whatsoever, nor vice versa as far as I could hear–watching it again, just in case I had missed something on first viewing, which I hadn’t. Gee thanks. As a postscriptum, a question: why would you suppose that when I wrote “surgical masks” (twice) I meang the opportunistic crap the old guy notes as being “sold around here” and distinguishes from the properly constructed surgical masks they are apparently distributing (and running out of) in China? Admittedly, I was a bit perfunctory in the brief, accompanying denotation, limiting it to their outward appearance, but… Bad knuckle day? And another:… Read more »
Well blow me down with a bat feather. I’ve just come across this post from you in another sub-thread, quoted here in its entirety:
that states exactly what I wrote and your geriatric hero spoke.
So it transpires that far from not watching the video you posted (fucking twice), the bottom line is you didn’t read the post I wrote. Maybe you should stick with up and down votes for a while. Until you get your mind back in gear.
La France rurale n’a vraiment rien en commun avec la France urbaine.
Vierotchka, that’s what the gilets jaunes are all about.
Ignore them at your peril.
Their battles have nothing to do with me, neither can they affect me.
C’est la meme en Angleterre, en Allemagne et dans les Etats Unis.
Here, let me help you. You should have written “C’est la même chose en Angleterre, en Allemagne, et aux États-Unis.”
J’ai bu trop de vin rouge ce soir. Merci!
J’ose éspèrer que vous n’étiez pas seul…
Le vin rouge, ainsi que le vin blanc et le rosé, requiert qu’on soit en bonne compagnie avec quelqu’un du sexe opposé, sinon, boire seul est bien trop triste…
Idiot.
Indeed you are!
As a matter of fact,
Rare video: Life in coronavirus-stricken China (Full show) 19 Feb 2020 Wuhan, China remains on lockdown to prevent the spread of COVID-19, also known as novel coronavirus. Most bridges and roads remain blocked in Hubei province and some residents are chafing at tightened controls as authorities struggle to contain the spread of the virus. RT America’s Michele Greenstein reports on what life is like at the epicenter of the outbreak sweeping the nation, where citizens endure mandatory face masks, quarantine, and scuffles with police. Then “Boom Bust” co-host Christy Ai joins Rick Sanchez to share her insights. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan warns that an attack on Idlib is “imminent” as Syrian forces push into the country’s last major rebel stronghold. Former Pentagon official Michael Maloof shares his expertise. RT America’s Trinity Chavez reports on the pipeline protests sweeping Canada. SpaceX has announced that it will fly four privately paying… Read more »
Fake rubbish.
Environment. Nothing else.
I just found a very interesting video with regard to Covid-19 and Russia:
Coronavirus | ‘Masks won’t protect you’
5 Mar 2020
*FILMED ON FEB.10th
Virologist Dmitriy L’vov talks about the dangers of current #Coronavirus outbreak and its origins
Based on my extremely limited but gradually growing knowledge of coronaviruses, Dr. L’vov provides a really excellent summary of the situation with the SARS-CoV-2 strain, albeit from a month ago. His comments re: “experts” on talkshows apply equally to those in these columns who lack knowledge of virology.
Yes, we need to educate ourselves on what these viruses really are. A good starting place for us lay-folk is “Spillover” by David Quammen (2012).
“To put the matter in its starkest form: Human-caused ecological pressures and disruptions are bringing animal pathogens ever more into contact with human populations, while human technology and behavior are spreading those pathogens ever more widely and quickly.”
“Will the Next Big One be caused by a virus? Will the Next Big One come out of a rainforest or a market in southern China? Will the Next Big One kill 30 or 40 million people?”
FYI: I see the headline tells us that worldwide there are 100,000 victims of the coronavirus. Meanwhile I read that:
Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study – MedicineNet
Kinda puts the epidemic into perspective.
Apples and oranges.
Excuse me? It’s not an equivilence, it’s a comparison between the media frenzy over coronavirus and the lack of media frenzy over deaths from flu (or for that matter, starvation, or deaths from malaria or dirty water).
More of the silly pictures.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Does this qualify for exponential? It is the number of confirmed cases in Switzerland from February 24 with one case, until March 5.
Source: https://www.tdg.ch/suisse/L-epidemie-se-developpe-vite-Voici-comment-sen-premunir/story/11510374
Today, there are more than 228 confirmed cases, and counting.
Just asking.
https://twitter.com/BAG_OFSP_UFSP/status/1236249864473894914
No that’s not an exponential curve, it’s a low fluctuation with a spike at the end.
Why the sudden increase on March 6? How many cases of flu have been diagnosed/hospitalised over the same period? Context matters.
I’d have thought that going from one case to 228 cases in 16 days is exponential.
The incubation period of Covid-19 is between 7 and 14 days, and during incubation, people can infect others, which might explain the very rapid and rather spectacular increase of confirmed cases and the sudden increase on March 6 and the subsequent huge increase on March 7 – this implies that this trend and rapid pace could continue and result in a huge number of cases. I did say “could”, not “will”.
The 228 cases I mentioned are confirmed Covid-19 cases, separate from influenza cases – the ‘flu virus is a wholly different kind of virus from the Covid-19 virus, the cases of both are not confused.
Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, Vierotchka, but it’s wrong. Exponential graphs don’t fluctuate on a low level then suddenly uptick at the end. An exponential increase is one where the rate of increase itself increases. If that uptick were to continue, if – say – tomorrow the number of new cases were to double, then the next day quadruple, you would have an exponential function. But as yet you don’t.
Note – exponential does not just mean ‘getting bigger very suddenly or quite fast’.
And we are not suggesting flu cases are being confused with COVID19 (though absent PCR and antibody testing this IS an obvious possibility), we are suggesting comparing death rates of both diseases in the same place and time, to aid with perspective.
I think you demonstrate here a misunderstanding. The rate of increase does not change in an exponential function. A 2% increase per day is an exponential function if the ‘2%’ refers to a portion of those who have the virus and thereby is a compounding increase. In technical defintion (sorry, from Wiki) :
It occurs when the instantaneous rate of change (that is, the derivative) of a quantity with respect to time is proportional to the quantity itself.
If it doubles (unchecked) every day then in 30 days that is a billion people.
There are a ton of programmable scientific calculators of different flavours for Android in the Google Play Store and there may be some in Apple’s equivalent. At least a few of the Android ones are both good and free. If one that suits does linear regression to calculate the parameters of a best fit straight line (Y= a + bX) to a set of data points then it’s easy to apply simple functions to the inputs to get the best fit of various basic curves (exponential, log, whatever). Programs are available for some of them that run the data against a bunch of such curves and identify which fit best (if any). There are other routines vailable to fit other regular or arbitrary curves but they generally require a bit more mathematical discrimination to choose which to use to avoid cooking up a load of nonsense.
exponential
adjective
1.
(of an increase) becoming more and more rapid.
“the social security budget was rising at an exponential rate”
2.
MATHEMATICS
of or expressed by a mathematical exponent.
“an exponential curve”
See also:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/exponential
https://www.yourdictionary.com/exponential
Etc.
And still more garbage from the resident sophist.
No. This is wrong.
The rate remains the same, the amount of increase increases.
A constant, compounding 1% increase per year is an exponential function.
Martenson again:
https://www.peakprosperity.com/video/crash-course-chapter-3-exponential-growth-3/
Hi Crank. As your above video link points out, it really depends on whether you are describing an exponential function by rate or by amount. I honestly don’t think anyone is in disagreement about what an exponential curve is.
I think it’s worth us all noting that, although the piece quotes ‘exponential’ in the title, it doesn’t use exponential growth in its argument, nor does the data displayed seem to demonstrate exponential growth. I think we’re in danger of being distracted by semantics.
Click on the graph.
“Click on the graph.” Hello Vierotchka – While the graph, over all, shows what might be an exponential curve laid along the top of the topmost section of the vertical bars, you would need a far more nuanced understanding of statistics than you’ve deployed so far to make any valid claims about exponentiality and the incidence of COVID-19 outside of China (quite apart from the actual raw numbers: a lot of curves that look as though they could be exponential or logarithmic–its inverse–or parabolic or power or whatever, turn out not to be when the raw numbers on which a visualisation is based are analyzed numerically): that is if you want to avoid ending up in the damned lies cupboard at the back of the statistics department. One important consideration is the choice or definition of the scope of the statistical analysis to hand, so as to get a properly… Read more »
1865 deaths attibuted to pneumonia in Switzerland in 2017:
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/switzerland-influenza-pneumonia
Vierotschka’s graph covers about 10 days. During that time, if deaths were evenly distributed through time, then 10/366 * 1865 deaths would have occurred.
= 50,95
Given the time of year, I think we could usually expect perhaps 80 to 100 deaths from pneumonia in Switzerland in this 10 day period, and of course thousands of cases.
1 alleged death in Switzerland from ‘covid-19’ so far – and only 214 cases.
Agreed – context matters.
The reason why you see an increase, is because people go to GPs now the moment they start to sneeze, where they would usually not do that for a normal common cold (which is coronavirus). At GPs they now all get tested for COVID 19, leading to both more diagnoses of milder cases of COVID 19 and false positive cases of COVID 19 (given that COVID 19 isn’t easy to diagnose and in 30-60% leads to false positive tests when a PCR test is performed). What this will lead to is that the death rate for COVID 19 will go down, as you can already see in NL with >120 cases and 1 person who died with COVID 19 (an 86 year old man). If you are really interested in how to tackle COVID 19, you should read my comments below, where I explain that in order to see if… Read more »
I went to the supermarket SB’s y’day and the shelves with the loo roll and paper towels as well as the shelves stocking dettol etc. were empty. This was early afternoon. It made me think and I believe the people able to shop at such times when most people are working at the retirees and largely boomer generation. This kind of makes sense because at large part of this demographic will be the ‘target’ audience. At the same time I travel through the City everyday and I have not noticed one person wearing a face mask or acting differently. Two very different reactions. The people with more time on their hands largely consumers of daytime media which has been wall to wall saturation for the last 10 days or so are the people panicking. Maybe because they will be the ones most affected. Everyone else just getting on with the… Read more »
Facemasks do not protect from Covid-19. People who have Covid-19 protect others who don’t by wearing a facemask.
Coughs and Sneezes Spread Diseases,
Legacy Media Makes Hysteria.
To reiterate a question I asked below, if this is all an elaborate hoax, to serve the interests of the western neoliberal empire, then why are the governments of China, Russia, and Iran going along with it?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9UNfaNBEdd/
Because they are all friends and are all in favor of hoaxes that may lead to more self-imposed austerity and less freedom amongst their own population or that of others. What is not to like?
It’s a big club…
Of course, this is guess work.
Better than guessing is demanding a study (Which methods I outlined below) that once and for all solves the issue as to whether COVID 19 is mass hysteria (whether deliberately created or not) or a complete nothing burger.
BS
Because governments never lie right?
Or perhaps you have a better idea?
It doesn’t seem to be a hoax to me. There is fearmongering for sure, but that is what the media do always with everything.
I mentioned the apparent lack of understanding of exponential functions in Kit’s analysis.
Here is a good, short video explaning how almost all of us so often get this wrong:
https://www.peakprosperity.com/video/crash-course-chapter-4-compounding-is-the-problem-2/
Oh well that”s OK then.
Could you explain specifically how you think exponential functions are misrepresented in our piece? If you can do so successfully we will of course offer a correction – which will present a challenge as exponential functions are not discussed or evaluated at all in the entire piece.
exponential functions are not discussed or evaluated at all in the entire piece. The piece’s very title refers to exponential growth (of fear not virus). We all know that viruses spread according to an exponential function, unless checked by extreme measures (quarantine, testing, ramped up hygiene – for example). Such measures are unlikely pass into practice without a lot of media coverage. Saying that, I concede that it is absurd not to agree with the underlying basic premise of this website project: that the media functions as a psychological warfare machine, seemingly determined to induce fear around just about every topic if covers. This however, doesn’t mean that the scientists and statisticians who have modelled how the virus could likely spread according to several variants of exponential growth curves, and who are well versed in the human fallibility around projections along an exponential curve, are all fear mongering lunatics with… Read more »
Can we all be clear that OffG is not suggesting it’s ‘all an elaborate hoax’. We are merely and consistently pointing out the official data on virulence and mortality that does not support the fear narratives being promoted.
Russia would be unwise not to take basic precautions, given the unstable nature of the forces opposed to it. Today’s false alarm may morph into tomorrow’s unhinged bio attack. China’s role is more difficult to assess.
China’s role is more difficult to assess.
Indeed. Presumably, people in China get the flu all the time, and a few of them even die from it. If this illness is no worse than usual, why would they shut down a city of ten million people?
Unless they suspected or knew that there’s something highly unusual about it, not necessarily the current mortality rate.
It’s easy to construct explanations for why China, Russia, Iran, and NATO might want to hoax their domestic populations. What’s harder to understand, is why they would all simultaneously collaborate in the same hoax.
Whose interests are being served?
I think that you make a good point Milo, and I read no reply that addresses it.
May I suggest that the crisis is real and will serve the globalist creditor class who are shafted if this system continues on its trajectory into uncontrolled decline.
They are putting the gun to our heads and will unveil their prefered changes.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Russia has taken rigorous precautions.
I wouldn’t say an “elaborate” hoax. Seems pretty crude to me.
Hystories: Hysterical Epidemics and Modern Media
by Elaine Showalter
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/881779.Hystories
Hysteria and “modern” illnesses
Showalter’s controversial take on illnesses such as dissociative identity disorder (formerly called multiple personality disorder), Gulf War syndrome and chronic fatigue syndrome in her book Hystories: Hysterical Epidemics and Modern Media (1997) has angered some in the health profession and many who suffer from these illnesses. Writing in the New York Times, psychologist Carol Tavris commented that “In the absence of medical certainty, the belief that all such symptoms are psychological in origin is no improvement over the belief that none of them are.”[2] Showalter (who has no formal medical training) admits to receiving hate mail, but has not been deterred from her position that these conditions are contemporary manifestations of hysteria.[3]
https://notthegrubstreetjournal.com/2019/12/23/over-population-paper-how-big-a-waste-paper-basket-ayers-quite-so-twofingers2brino-4pamphleteers-grubstreetjorno-wiki_ballot-financialeyes-iabato-sam-ge2019-roger-lewis-porthos-joebl/
One of the comments below links to an interview (Spiros and Professor Francis Boyle, bio-terrorism law expert). Boyle referred to his history teacher, HW McNeill. Curious about McNeill, I came across this gem in a Kirkus review of his book “The Pursuit of Power” which came after his “Plagues & Peoples”: THE PURSUIT OF POWER TECHNOLOGY, ARMED FORCE, AND SOCIETY SINCE A.D. 1000 BY WILLIAM H. MCNEILL ‧ RELEASE DATE: OCT. 1, 1982 “In his Plagues and Peoples (1976) University of Chicago historian McNeill surveyed world history from the perspective of the influence of microparasites in human life and social organization; this much longer overview is based on “macroparasites”—i.e., other human beings. Plato called those who were entrusted with the physical defense of the community, and nothing else, Guardians. McNeill calls those who, specializing in violence, are able to secure a living without producing, macroparasites…” So there we have it:… Read more »
This has to be seen to be believed.
Man Cleared Of Coronavirus Coughs Through Interview (clip from The Jimmy Dore Show)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZG5evJYdos
They make a complete mockery … and still so many believe it. Admittedly, I believed all the other ones before – SARS, Avian, Swine, MERS, Zika, Ebola – however, they didn’t impact me so I didn’t bother looking and I wasn’t aware of people calling them out as hoaxes. You’d think people would be scrutinising this over-the-top situation as it affects their lives. My friend, who has a particular need, couldn’t get toilet paper. She’s reasonably on board with hoaxes but at the same time it’s as if she doesn’t totally make the connection – she’s annoyed she couldn’t get toilet paper but not outraged that it’s all engineered.
For such a contagious disease with such huge impact, the CDC provides so little information. They tell us the symptoms are: Fever Cough Shortness of breath https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/symptoms.html What about the symptoms as the disease progresses? Why don’t they have videos of people suffering the disease in its different stages which might help others identify if they have the same disease? Why do we ONLY see people in extremely unconvincing fashion falling flat on their faces, lying on the ground outside and inside hospitals, shaking uncontrollably and crying hysterically. Why are people all wrapped up in hospital beds? What symptoms means that they wrap them up? Oh but wait … here’s a woman who allegedly IS suffering from the disease but – how ’bout them apples – she’s completely asymptomatic. She couldn’t look in better health. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAafDOqfN3M. As one commenter says: “This whole thing seems off…” and another: “What’s the guarantee… Read more »
Actually, maybe it is a real chest. Can’t see fakery in the chest itself and it seems the Lucas machine does pump chests like that even if it seems a little over the stop – doesn’t mean SARS wasn’t a hoax too though of course and when you look it up it’s remarkable how similar the SARS stories are to the COVID-19 ones.
I knew that you would emerge sooner or later with your absurd theories, intended to bring ridicule to those with genuine concerns about the lies and deception of the Deep State. Are you ready claiming that Wuhan, a Chinese city of 11 million and locked down is staged news? Are you really claiming that their overflowing hospitals are faked? Are you really claiming that their overflowing morgues and funeral homes are faked? Are you really claiming that China would go along with a US/5 eyes/NATO Deep State conspiracy? Are you really claiming that China isn’t much more likely to be undergoing a real bio warfare assault by the West? I’d suggest that you know the last point is quite likely to be true, and to distract people from this possibility, you are deliberately creating absurd alternatives saying “look over here instead “. That’s Deep State PSYOPS tactics “Petra” / Flaxgirl.… Read more »
I used to use the screen name, flaxgirl, but I’ve been using Petra since September last year. There is no need for a double reference. Just stick to Petra. I understand your incredulity, Portonchok. I’m incredulous myself, however, argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity It’s as Sherlock Holmes said: “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” I argue from the evidence and my argument is very straightforward. I’m not trying to distract – you can stick with the claim of overflowing morgues if you wish, I’m simply putting forward my argument. I say that if there are people genuinely suffering from the alleged COVID-19 we should see convincing evidence of at least one sufferer. We don’t … but we do see people said to be suffering who are in no way convincing. We see people falling flat on their faces,… Read more »
Beware the CIA-19 virus. Especially if you’re Chinese or Iranian.
Watch and learn:
This documentary was aired last night on the Swiss TV. It is in French, unfortunately, but it shows how China treated thousands of its citizens (reminiscent of Julian Assange’s being carried out of the Ecuadorean Embassy), and it also shows people dropping dead in the streets.
I don’t know if you can access it from where you are, but if you can, it is well worth the watch, even if you don’t understand French:
https://www.rts.ch/play/tv/emission/temps-present?id=385293
Do you believe people would be ‘dropping dead in the streets’ of a virus that has a cfr of 1-3% maximum and mainly kills elderly infirm people with pre-existing conditions and only after prolonged illness?
There are many memes circulating on this highly propagandised topic that don’t stand up to much analysis
Just watch the video instead of jumping to erroneous conclusions and jumping on me like that. The fatality rate is 3.42% globally, probably larger in China.
Jumping on you? You’ve been asked a reasonable question which you don’t answer. You’re on here spreading mainstream talking points and panic and refusing to discuss anything factual.
The answer is in the video I linked to. I am not spreading mainstream media points at all – I neither watch nor read mainstream media, for your edification, and neither am I spreading panic. I have indeed discussed actual factual things, even though they go against the grain of the beliefs expressed here.
I watched the video and if you did you know it does not answer the question Admin asked. Are you trolling?
Pants on fire!
It is blatantly obvious that you did absolutely not watch the video, because it does indeed answer Admin’s questions and backs my original statement.
No, unlike you, I am absolutely not trolling, cupcake.
Pointless and silly going back and forth calling each other liars. I’m sure V isn’t a troll as they have been posing regularly and usefully for years.
But V could you possibly summarise what the video says re people dropping in the streets and how it explains this claim in light of the points we made? It will be helpful for readers here.
Translation of the video description: Coronavirus, an investigation into the origins of the disaster While the coronavirus has also been diagnosed in Switzerland, here is a commentary about how it all started in China. With the help of exclusive images, filmed by the residents of Wuhan, at the heart of the epidemic, we delved into the origins of the virus. An investigation which demonstrates and comments about how the first whistleblower doctor was repressed, before dying of the disease, and the brutality of the Chinese authorities in the imposition of the quarantine on a traumatized population. There are many scenes of people lying dead in the streets or of collapsing suddenly in the streets. There also are scenes of people being forcibly taken out of their homes and carried manu military and shoved into vans by the Chinese police (much like the manner in which Julian Assange was carried out… Read more »
I’m sure you’re sincere when you claim this does not sell the standard Western fear narrative, but I have to say this description is in almost every particular, the standard Western fear narrative. Up to and including the slightly racist overtone.
I respectfully disagree.
“There is no doubt whatsoever of their authenticity.”
Now there’s a giveaway.
Go on, back your statement with incontrovertible empirical evidence!
Nah, use a picture of a little dog instead. Far more sensible.
All this clown knows, when it’s stuck, is to post yet more silly moving pictures. Sad.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Comedy gold. A shrug from Game of Thrones outdoes all the analysis in the world. Admittedly not the first time round. Nor the 10th. Nor the 100th. But after 10 million loops you have hypnotised your audience with your “incontrovertible empirical evidence”!
Hi George, I’ve had a word about posting too many GIFs and I’d just as soon not feed this issue anymore, if it’s alright. Thanks.
Sure thing, Admin. I hadn’t paid attention to that osteoarthritis remark. I hang my head in shame!
Well nobody can possibly outdo your little video loops for incontrovertible empirical evidence!
The people you see being carried out of their homes are confirmed cases who refused to quarantine. Governments in the west would have similar powers to force people into quarantine. I know we do in Australia. The greater good or well-being of the whole community is more important than individual rights.
They could just as well be quarantined in their own homes.
They are quarantining at home in China, these are people not doing what they should be doing, they are confirmed cases. Forget about individual rights, it’s about the well-being of the whole population, thank you.
I watched it in full when it was released, two days ago, dearie.
Yet more silly moving pictures. Sad.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
All it can do, when it’s stuck, is post silly moving pictures. Sad.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
I am amazed about your comment about the death rate of which you know it is inflated as it has been told to you, time and again here, that the death rate is highly inflated because they only monitor patients who have symptoms or are already admitted in hospital.
What makes it so difficult for you to not see that the death rate is bogus, and that one needs a study where consecutive and non-selected individuals are tested for Covid 19 and then followed through time to calculate the actual death rate?
3.42% is the fatality rate among confirmed cases, dearie, as I have stated before.
Do the maths yourself:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Note that just a week ago, if that, there was only one confirmed case in Switzerland. In just a few days, it jumped to 214 confirmed cases, with, thankfully, only one fatality and three recovered thus far.
Do I have to repeat the Deputy Director of the WHO’s observations after he returned from a visit to China? Apparently yes, as you would rather fearmonger than behave like a rational human being. I quote: Julia Belluz If you didn’t find the “iceberg” of mild cases in China, what does it say about how deadly the virus is — the case fatality rate? Bruce Aylward It says you’re probably not way off. The average case fatality rate is 3.8 percent in China, but a lot of that is driven by the early epidemic in Wuhan where numbers were higher. If you look outside of Hubei province [where Wuhan is], the case fatality rate is just under 1 percent now. I would not quote that as the number. That’s the mortality in China — and they find cases fast, get them isolated, in treatment, and supported early. Second thing they… Read more »
Just saw a BBC thug hectoring a WHO official because he was praising China’s response. The hate just grows and grows.
Admin, this virus is mutating. Not only that, but it’s been genetically spliced to contain elements of AIDS. You can be blasé if you prefer, but it doesn’t make you look too good.
Yet more silly moving pictures. Sad.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Admin, this virus is mutating. What does that mean? You mean it’s getting stronger? Where is the evidence for that? The death rate was never high and is going down. The infection rate remains consistently low. What facts do you know that contradict these things? Not only that, but it’s been genetically spliced to contain elements of AIDS. I think you mean it has some genetic resemblance to the HIV retrovirus. Why exactly do you think this makes this relatively benign pathogen more dangerous? You can be blasé if you prefer, bu t it doesn’t make you look too good. I’ve read all the COVID-19 articles on here. I don’t see anything blasé but I do see very clear presentations of official data points that clearly contradict the mainstream propaganda. Do you think these data should be ignored? Should OG be encouraging people to believe the oftentimes unfactual mainstream panic… Read more »
China is locked down, that’s why rates are reducing. But those are official numbers, not to be fully trusted.
While China grapples with this likely bio weapon attack, the Deep State over here deliberately distracts from this, claiming COVID-19 is a massive threat for the whole planet and using it to impose more controls upon us.
China is locked down, that’s why rates are reducing. That looks like the old joke about the stick that keeps snakes away. Why is China locking itself down for a bug a bit worse than flu? Even in locked down Wuhan less than 1% of people got the corona. And what’s 3% of less than 1%? Because that’s how many died. You have something around 0.o3% chance of dying of corona even in bloody Wuhan. It’s a joke bonny lad, but who’s it on? But those are official numbers, not to be fully trusted. Oh so they pretend hardly anyone is dying and then bend over backwards to create a panic about it? Makes sense to me. While China grapples with this likely bio weapon attack, the Deep State over here deliberately distracts from this, claiming COVID-19 is a massive threat for the whole planet and using it to impose… Read more »
You have no proof for this assertion but yes, it is mutating (as do all viruses) into two forms, so-called L-virus and the R-virus. The L version is more dangerous than the R version but over time, the R version has become the major form. I’ll dig out the source for you.
BTW, I’m not saying that it isn’t a man-made virus, just that we have no proof, merely assertions and assertions don’t cut it.
Man, that thumbnail is enough for me! Two knob ends in painting coveralls and trainers standing over a ‘dead’ bloke lying totally straight on the ground, arms by his sides! What are we supposed to think is going on? He’s been walking along feeling fine, got the corona in mid stride, laid down nice and tidy on the floor and died? Where upon the two knob ends in paper decorating coveralls are sent in to look at him?
If you can’t see that’s a bad fake up probably by a news team wanting some dramatic pics then God help you.
From what I have read you’re as likely to drop dead in the street of the corona as you are of flu. And when did you last see anyone do that?
Watch the video instead of spewing utter nonsense.
No more silly moving pictures? – disappointed.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Vierotchka, people who are fed daily with 5 Eyes MSM propaganda sadly will not believe that media elsewhere, especially here in Switzerland, can be significantly better and objective.
Some forces tried to destroy Swiss impartial broadcasting with last year’s referendum to stop funding it and replace it with foreign and deep pocketed oligarchs, but thankfully enough Swiss were smart enough to reject it.
Something else to share with non Swiss, their state schools teach children critical thinking, especially in the context of history and current affairs. Not many people know that.
Cue: well worn anti Swiss propaganda and venom in reaction to my comment…
Who does fund the ‘impartial’ Swiss media? But in any case they definitely seem to be selling the same fear narrative as the rest of the Western media on this one
Headquartered in Bern, the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation is a non-profit organisation, funded mainly through radio and television licence fees (70%) and making the remaining income from advertising and sponsorship.
Oh, and you are quite wrong – it does absolutely not “sell” the same fear narrative as the rest of the western mainstream media at all.
This video has been pulled, according to the site, for legal reasons; I quote:
I can guess what they are, fake, fake, fake, fake!!!
I suggest you take some French lessons. What it says is “For legal reasons, this video is only available in Switzerland.”
Note what I wrote in my original post at the top of this thread:
I wrote that because I know that some of TSR’s Temps Présents videos online on their website are not available outside of Switzerland, and the TSR’s Temps Présents haven’t yet uploaded it to its YouTube channel. I don’t know if they will uploade it there. If they do, I’ll post it here.
I misspelled it, it is Temps Présent in the singular and not in the plural.
Here are some of their videos on their YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBm0mt3q5l8xDy9PRIohaFw/videos
Oh, another one of my mistakes – it is RTS and not TSR.
https://www.rts.ch/
Sorry about that.
Better stick to posting yet more silly moving pictures.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
I stand corrected (my French aint good) but it does mean we only have your word for it, s0 from what I’ve read here, people just don’t drop dead from coronavirus, it’s ends up as a form of viral pneumonia, that is the end product of a process, so I still think it’s a fake.
BTW, what, exactly are the legal reasons why it can’t be shown outside Switzerland? Getting sued perhaps for publishing fake news?
Due to licensing rights, just like there are many videos on YouTube that are not available in some countries – some YouTube videos may not be available in your country/region for the following reasons: Video owners have chosen to make their content available only to certain countries/regions (usually due to licensing rights).
Licensing rights? For an amateur video? What rubbish. It says for ‘legal reasons’, not specifically copyright. So it’s only your assumption that it’s a licensing issue. And given the seriousness of the video’s accusations, you’d think the author would want as wide a circulation as possible.
Yes, licensing rights, whether you like it or not. It doesn’t need to state “for copyright reasons”.
Gosh, I do get the impression that the bones of your cranium are two inches thick…
Your thinking is profoundly wrong and misguided.
How can you think it is a fake since you haven’t seen the video in the first place?
Don’t you realize that you’re not making any sense whatsoever?
Anyway…
All this clown knows, when it’s stuck, is to post yet more silly moving pictures. Sad.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
More silly moving pictures. Not very entertaining.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
The vid is still up. Use your vpn, choose Zurich as the end node ‘et voila!’. Selection of horrorshow fear porn. Cheers!
Not so, it simply is the reality.
I don’t have VPN.
No problem.
See https://www.top10bestvpn.com/
Jimmy Dore, standing in for Jesse Ventura, starts with the coronavirus stuff and then goes into America’s endless wars…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUVdSSOQHbQ
The sad thing is that the psychopaths who rule America will probably see the coronavirus as a good excuse to kill-off ‘useless eaters’: the frail and elderly and the millions living in tent cities.
The United States of America is without doubt the most disgusting society that’s ever existed on Earth.
Let’s just remember this virus would – at current rates – infect about 0.8% of those ‘useless eaters’ and leave 86-99% of that 0.8% alive and well.
As far as I can tell, the only real evidence we can expect of the virus is being shown people suffering from it. Statistics are meaningless – they can apply them to people who might be suffering or have died from any old thing or they can simply make them up. We are not shown ANY convincing sufferers. Instead, we are shown people falling flat on their faces, etc or in one case at least a woman who is asymptomatic (not explained and not mentioned in the literature as a possibility) and who says things in her interview that do not add up at all. Why should we believe anything whatsoever that they tell us about COVID-19 where their story is full of anomalies and where there is absolutely no sign whatsoever of any reality of it? I think it’s great that OffG is calling out the coronavirus but I… Read more »
The advantage of caution in the absence of a considerable quantity of convincing evidence is that you don’t look like a total tit when what you have stated as fact turns out to be completely wrong, or merely hearsay.
Most of us here are trying to use the available statistics strictly “for the time being” – until something truly substantial comes along, so there is as yet no basis upon which to start even a childish, “You’re a liar” … “No, YOU’RE a liar” quarrel. The indisputable, impartial evidence simply isn’t in, and we are still comparing various sources and assessing their trustworthiness as best we can until a clearer picture emerges.
At any rate I reckon the minimum requirement for starting to publicize government or media corruption is to be absolutely sure of your facts.
According to my method of judgement, wardropper, I am sure of my facts. I have analysed 30-40 events (and looked at others’ analyses) to a greater or lesser degree. Every single one contains these two characteristics: — Deliberately inserted anomalies, sloppiness of execution, etc — Not a single item that a believer in the reality of the event can brandish in support of its reality (for this second characteristic no one ever has at least) The majority of events seem to be large-scale exercises pushed out as real. in the absence of a considerable quantity of convincing evidence It is a fallacy to think you need a particular amount of evidence. What you need is for all the available evidence (assuming a reasonable amount) to favour your chosen hypothesis over any competing hypotheses. All the available evidence supports and favours live pandemic exercise over real pandemic or some sort of… Read more »
A brilliant summing up.
It is a fallacy to think you need a particular amount of evidence. What you need is for all the available evidence (assuming a reasonable amount) to favour your chosen hypothesis over any competing hypotheses. Don’t misunderstand me, Petra. I actually agree with your conclusions, which rhyme well with my own. Nor am I talking about a particular amount of evidence. For me, a thousand pieces of unconvincing evidence count for nothing compared to two pieces of evidence which are entirely convincing. I am simply stating that I don’t feel I have a clear enough picture as yet to present to a “committee of unbiased judges”, or at any rate people with the legal authority actually to do something with that evidence. But then of course we still have the problem of where on earth to find unbiased judges these days. It is clearly quite fashionable to bribe or threaten… Read more »
OK, wardropper. I think I understand your thinking, I just think differently. The thing is if the statistics are fake and you act as though they’re real then you’re as wrong is if they’re real and you act as though they’re fake. I opt for what is better supported in the context. If everything else shows fakery or lack of convincingness one way or another and we have authoritative sounding people such as Tony telling us the virus cannot be isolated if it existed and thus cannot be identified in people, I opt for fake statistics. I like to have a clear sense of what TYPE of event an alleged event is and where it fits on the continuum. If it’s not a “live exercise” pushed out as real then what type of event is it and where does it fit with all the other events? What were SARS, Ebola,… Read more »
Thanks for the reply, and of course I quite agree with you about acting as if statistics are real when they are fake – and vice versa. My current view on the issue at hand is based on the realization that I don’t actually know yet to my “logical” satisfaction whether the statistics are fake, although I strongly suspect they are. If I were to judge on emotion alone, I’d be out there tomorrow, chaining myself to the railings in front of the WHO headquarters, but surely in order to complete the picture to a reasonable extent one must also consider what evidence would stand up in court. I understand the temptation to “shoot first and ask questions afterwards”, but I prefer the scenario where you show the dead body, along with the corrupt judge’s monogrammed knife sticking in it, so that whitewashing that judge’s reputation is going to be… Read more »
Fair enough, wardropper. I take the line: you tell us that there is a coronavirus pandemic and yet you haven’t shown us evidence of a single sufferer while you have shown us lots of fakery of sufferers. You could take them to court on that alone – you don’t even have to prove it’s a “live exercise” just say you are not showing us what you should be for such an allegedly serious problem on the basis of which you are going to implement laws, etc.
Christian Porter, Australian Attorney General
So we’re watching this very carefully in anticipation of the fact that for the first time, in Australia, laws will need to be used on a scale that will present a different experience for Australia.
Doncha love it?
Good point. I think your approach is actually the right one. Personally, if they asked me to prove that their photos were fakery, I might have a hard time doing so, since modern graphics technology has enabled all sorts of fakery which I simply don’t have the tools to prove or disprove.
I hope those who are more familiar with such tools will endeavour, as I do, to be absolutely sure of the results they come up with, and I am following developments with great interest as the “authorities” continue trying to persuade us all to succumb to “white coat syndrome” and believe them simply because they wear an official uniform, or just a suit and tie…
The propaganda is working.
My mate went to get some bogroll to sainsbuggers today and shelves were lacking. Delivery drivers from supermarkets are finding themselves delivering many dozens of tins of cornbeef to deepest Essex loons who open their doors with facemasks – i kid you not!
Seems like the Essexers are smarter than the rest of us?
so you just believe the telly about this? Will you take the vaccine if one turns up? Do voluntary quarantine? And all for a virus you’d have a 97% chance of surviving even if you were 75 and poorly?
No I don’t “believe the telly”, but we don’t know what this virus really is, and the Deep State cannot be trusted not to turn upon and “cull” some of its own citizens.
How about their own children and grandma’s?
If the deep state has decided to cull it’s citizens, a face mask isn’t going to help.
You must be at the same sainsbury’s as me. The shelves yesterday afternoon in the bog roll, hand towel and dettol / clean section were absolutely empty. When I asked the lady on the tile what was happening she said they keep getting filled and keep getting emptied. Make of that …
https://www.brighteon.com/646ad120-775a-4464-a0d1-609be7a0a9dc http://www.doctoryourself.com Well,if you are concerned about covid19, what are you going to do? There is no vaccine yet and if there were, how effective would it be? At most, it might be proof against one virus. However, by building up your immune system, you have much better chance against all viruses. That’s where mega dosing vitamin C comes in, which for Vít C, means doses in the tens of grams per day. It is relatively cheap (especially in powder / crystal form) and very safe (it is water soluble with a short half-life in the body, so regular smaller doses throughout the day are recommended). I am intensely relaxed about the idea that eminent virologist might not agree with this advice. But then they probably don’t have as many Nobel Prizes as Linus Pauling, one of the people who inspired Andrew Saul. Nor will they probably live as long.… Read more »
Just eat properly. That gives you most of what is needed.
Linus Pauling’s grandson, also called Linus Pauling, is a co-alumnus and a friend of mine. His grandfather was quite a genius in many ways.
I made a video of his 60th birthday party back in 2009:
How do such people become so wealthy enough to be able to afford parties, even live, on the shores of Lac Leman in Cologny or Eau-Vives? Especially since they work in public service roles.
They all are Ecolint alumni, many of whom came from the USA and other countries for the occasion. They don’t to my knowledge work in public service roles. Most of the residents of the Eaux Vives are ordinary people, it is mostly a working-class district.
Linie (Linus Pawling junior) is very wealthy from a hefty inheritance. He is a kind and good man and he does somewhat enjoy a life of luxury, spending his summers in Geneva and the rest of the time abroad. He financed the whole party which was held in the Club Nautique (Société Nautique de Genève).
Boring.
Very far from being as boring as you!
The latest from Rappoport…
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/06/corona-baloney-its-the-money-honey/
I’m still holding my cards on this. However, I have to say that during the last few years (ie, the trade war between the USA and China) there’s been an extraordinary number of serious flu outbreaks in China, all of which have seriously effected China’s economy.
Also, latest reports are that 27 Iranian MPs have been tested positive for coronavirus. In a nation of 80 million people the odds on this are astronomical.
Sentient beings have to wonder what’s going on here…
Thank God for some sanity. Why do even sane and smart people lose their shit when it comes to media-generated ‘killer bugs’? B on MoA even acknowledges the panic and hype and low mortality rate of this (alleged) pathogen, but still can’t seem to untangle his mind from the fear. He’s over there talking about closing schools and other hysterical nonsense, and so are most of his commenters! These guys are apparently in full possession of the facts. They know the cases are falling and infection rates are low and mortality rates only slightly north of an average flu. They know these things but can’t process them in minds saturated with dread. So they talk as if there is a massive threat even while acknowledging there is no such thing. It’s very disturbing. These guys have abandoned their scepticism and are actually willing to accept the say-so of authority and… Read more »
For a rather more informed and considered analysis of the unfolding situation from a systems perspective, try Nafeez Ahmed:
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/coronavirus-synchronous-failure-and-the-global-phase-shift-3f00d4552940
“The most devastating impact of the coronavirus might well be not from the virus but from the way human systems respond to it.”
“The coronavirus outbreak is, ultimately, a lesson in not just the inherent systemic fragilities in industrial civilization, but also the limits of its underlying paradigm.”
Nafeez is obviously a deep thinker, but reading between the lines it’s clear the he’s onboard with what, for the lack of a better term, is called the ‘globalist agenda’.
Doesn’t challenge the prevailing narrative on the covid-19 subject.
As others have suggested, time will tell to what extent the prevailing SARS-2 narrative reflects reality. Personally, I’m with those who are inclined to trust people who actually understand molecular biology, such as Dr Seheult at medcram.com, Dr John Campbell and leftist NHS consultant, physician and surgeon Dr Ranjeet Brar. The latter is certainly no stranger to the globalist agenda.
So if you are provided with allegedly solid facts that tell you A is true, but an authority figure or molecular biologist tells you the opposite, B, is true, you ignore the facts in favour of blind faith in authority.
You will be reassured to know this is likely exactly the reaction our masters were hoping for
Just found this forum – howdy.
One thing I think should be more discussed is the actual tests ‘they’ are using to say someone has covid-19.
Elisa ? PCR ? Genome analysis ? Holding a buttercup under one’s chin ? The accuracy of the testing method is surely key to any further discussion/analysis/preparation/defence. Jon Rappoport reckons it’s a load of bollocks. I tend to agree.
“The accuracy of the testing method is surely key to any further discussion/analysis/preparation/defence.”
The Chinese had a big uptick in their count of the afflicted when they switched from ‘test kits’ to pesenting with chest-related flu symptoms.
Welcome JohnB,
Here you are in a kaleidoscope of the edges of the msm.
Wherever you are from hang your hat here.
It is a cree
Thanx. Wearing a hat at the moment, following drastic haircut yesterday. 🙂
What’s a ‘cree’ ?
Jon Rappoport’s blog cuts right through the media lies.
Why don’t we treat the climate crisis with the same urgency as corona virus?
Because corona virus is an exaggerated fact whereas the climate crisis is an exaggerated fantasy.
“…corona virus is an exaggerated fact whereas the climate crisis is an exaggerated fantasy.”
More science to deal with the scientific fallout of an ubalanced society. ‘Pithy’, though. As in gung ho. Helmuts and rifles. Just what the globalized world needs.
They are the same as in that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics
Don’t forget arrogant stupidity that fancies itself genius.
Dear me-ALL the Academies of Science and scientific societies on Earth, and not to forget the melting glaciers, sea ice, permafrost etc, are victims of a ‘fantasy’, but Mike is way too smart for that. Delicious.
“Further, even if the virus continues to decline, the powers that be – and their talking heads – will simply claim (as many already are) that China’s total authoritarian control saved lives.” That’s true, you know; I saw an article just the other day which claimed the Chinese state had used smartphone information to track the movements of known cases and had, as a consequence, been able to isolate and presumably test all those with whom each person had been in contact. The article posited that this would not be possible in the USA or Europe, because such invasions of privacy are against the law. It was hard to judge from the tone whether the author was trying for self-righteousness, or was merely wistful for a time when government power is unrestricted by whiny rules about privacy. Whatever the case, you know and I know that western governments will not… Read more »
The use of the epithet ‘authoritarian’, to refer to the Chinese Government’s efforts to protect its population, is Orientalist arrogance, as well as the usual maniacal Sinophobic hate propaganda. China, whether the Western ‘Gods Upon the Earth’ like it or not, is a different civilization from the Glorious West, and does things differently.
If China were not ‘authoritarian’, then the Empire would long ago have ground China up in its maw, devoured the flesh and spat the bones out.
Excellent, thanks for sharing this.
I will copy and paste this, which I tried to post an hour ago..It is on topic. My perception of this (well my wife’s actually cos I have a bit of a cold (and am self isolating – she got it first), is that 75% of people, where we live think its a load of complete and utter bollocks. Despite the odd sniffle, I have been for a walk in the park. I have even taken my car for a drive, cos it sulks when it gets very wet. Neither of us have yet seen anyone wearing a face mask. The numbers in her dance class were lower than normal last night, but that was probably because of the torrential rain. Today, was a nice sunny day. Numbers in her yoga class were as normal, though someone did mention something about the yoga mats (they normally bring their own). Then… Read more »
What you report shows the complete failure (or is it intentional) of the media and government to actually educate what the main sign and symptom of Covid-19 are – a fever and a dry cough – runny noses and cold symptoms are NOT.
Still…following the money … no one here seems to want to talk about the pandemic bonds or the WHO’s dropping of the phrase ‘pandemic’ because of its ‘legal’ meaning!
Newspapers clog up the toilets Tony.
By the way I advocate stocking up even for those who don’t believe this nonsense, because:
1. Economic effects on breaking supply chains could produce scarcity, price rises
2. You need to be ready for sudden quarantines etc by the authorities.
As the financial/economic collapse gathers pace, I wouldn’t bet against limits on bank withdrawals in the next six months either.
Bollocks.
“Bollocks.”
to what exactly?
All of it.
Wait and see.
Wait – How long?
Do you feel brave enough to actually make a prediction that we can use as test of your theory (whatevet it is)?
Whilst it may be possible to read OffG, I am almost certain, that OffG is currently undergoing the same kind of denial of service attack, that John Ward’s SLOG got a few weeks ago. He couldn’t understand, why so few people tried to comment, whilst everyone could read.
When I and others could get through, the next day, I tried to explain. Never met him either, but I kind of understand these things
Craig Murray is asking for recruits. I said I might turn up.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Tony
Thanks for Julian Assange Extradition hearing reminder. Action 1: “Put 18 May firmly in your diary. The hearing stands adjourned until 18 May. Turn up on 18 May and join the protests there all day – show the world this is a political trial, and we know it. Woolwich Crown Court is walking distance from Plumstead Railway Station in South East London … Protests will roll on every day throughout the hearing which will continue for a minimum of three weeks.” Craig Murray is an amazing man. His call to join the protess from 18 May is commendable. But something equally (if not more) important is his call for : action 2: “Write to your elected representatives. This really does have an impact if done en masse. You can do this whichever country you are in. The key points are these: – Publishing the truth should not be a crime.… Read more »
One very convenient consequence of our concerned media guidelines is the cancelling and probable banning of …well just about any gathering. This handy little pandemic may finally achieve what our overlords have always wanted: a world where everyone stays at home and has to depend only on the media for info.
Are they banning the internet too?
They’ve been doing their damndest to neuter the net. And I daresay sites like Off-G will have their contrived trolling counterparts. The MSM is still tragically what most people I know tend to rely on.
What I meant is that if most gatherings of people can be (pseudo) legitimately banned, effective protest can be averted. Feelings of impotent isolation are a very powerful means of control.
“This handy little pandemic may finally achieve what our overlords have always wanted: a world where everyone stays at home and has to depend only on the media for info.”
Always wanted? You need to check in for a replacement of your sense of history apparatus. It’s called rigid control over “freedom of association” and, up until the advent of the net neutral Internet barely a quarter of a century ago, they’ve always had it, from time out of mind onwards.
No way would they cancel the England Wales rugby at Twickenham tomorrow (Saturday) its one of the biggest paydays in the organisation.
No way are football matches going to suffer the loss of revenues more so across the country.
People would rather risk death by breathing than miss their footy.
As Shankley said it’s a lot more important than life and death.
Good. That’s the British Spirit.
I never thought I’d post a link to a Daily Mail article, but here goes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8076395/Leading-doctor-claims-coronavirus-isnt-deadly-feared-death-rate-1.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=harvard_md_says_coronavirus_not_as_deadly_as_feared&utm_term=2020-03-06
The Daily Mail – the UK’s equivalent of the US’ National Enquirer! LOL!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Supermarket_tabloids
“the UK’s equivalent of the US’ National Enquirer” – not to quibble or to even disagree Vierotchka, but given the complete disintegration of the integrity of virtually all Western MSM which we have all witnessed unfold in real-time, this essentially makes them both of them roughly simply the cheaper pulp version equivalents of the NYT’s, WAPO, BBC, the Guardian, MSNBC, NPR . . . comic books, well, you name it. How exactly does one differentiate between the integrity of a National Enquirer headline that reads – “Elvis lives on a UFO colony run my immortal trans-sexual munchkins,” and the latest equally absurd article by the BBC or NYT’s that simply keeps endlessly regurgitating the latest version of the ever changing “official stories” of the Skripnal saga, or repeats endlessly (sans any evidence) that it was “the Russians” rather than “the DNC” who stole the last U.S. presidential election, etc. etc.… Read more »
Can’t argue with you there, except please don’t diss comic books – some of them are absolutely fantastic! I even have a small collection of first edition Fabulous Freak Brothers in plastic sleeves and one of Crumb’s Mister Natural. (boy, that sure reveals my age…)
Oh, not to forget my Fat Freddy’s Cat comic book… 😀
Yawn…!
Only people with zero culture and barely more than one quarter of a brain would yawn at that!
Let’s cut down on the ad hominems, and make sure we stay on topic, ok? 🙂 I agree, nothing wrong with comic books 😉
Just wait til he puts on his stereo headphones !
Indeed!
So the Guardian, CNN, BBC, Telegraph, NYT, WaPo, Sky and 99% of the world media have all become trustworthy now?
Can you try to articulate rationally what you think is so deadly about this virus, and why all the evidence that it isn’t especially deadly should be ignored?
And why uncritically accepting mainstream narratives is ok – sometimes?
Who said they have all become trustworthy now?
Certainly not me.
I have never uncritically accepted mainstream media narratives, cupcake.
YOu’re incritically accepting a mainstream narrative RIGHT NOW. You do ‘t have any facts to bring to back up your scared feeling, just damn silly anecdotes from the MAINSTREAM . Stop being so gullible.
Goodness, what a wild and warped imagination you have. It is NOT a mainstream narrative, neither am I scared at all.
The gullible are the deniers like you.
When it’s stuck, it just posts more silly moving pictures Sad.
Still more silly moving pictures. Sad.
What, no silly moving picture?
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Dr Faust makes many good points – particularly the point about air quality in Wuhan,
By the way the ‘Daily Mail’ has published some good copy about Dr David Kelly.
John Pilger wrote for the ‘Daily Mirror’ for many years.
There’s been a few diamonds in the rough of the tabloids.
Dr.Faust-where is Mephistofeles?
Sp?
Mephistopheles?
He’s right here:
Where did you get that photo of me!😈
Dungroanin doxxed!
It was lying around in Gehenna when I visited you there for a short while.
[calling in from the other side…] This copied from a comment (by ‘Han21’) on another article at Unz.com (‘Who Made Coronavirus’): I’ve seen remarkably little commentary on the role of the Harvard Chemistry Chair Charles Lieber, who was arrested on January 28, 2020. Lieber’s entire research team consisted of Chinese grad students, 2 of whom were also arrested in Boston on the same day. Lieber, as per WaPo, was “under contract as part of the Thousand Talents Plan,” and had helped create the virology lab in Wuhan. Lieber was paid $1.5M by the Chinese government, in addition to a $50k stipend/month and other expenses. His expertise was in nanovirology, and an article from over 10 years ago showed he had designed a nanotubule that could cross a cell membrane and deliver instructions directly to the cell’s genome. “Separately, the Justice Department charged Yanqing Ye, a student in Boston University’s departments… Read more »
Whether or not Kit understands it, the graphs provided in the article bear no resemblance to any exponential growth chart I’ve ever seen.
There was NO ‘..apparent attempt by the Chinese Government at covering up initial data on the virus..’-that is just the usual lying, Western, Sinophobic hate propaganda. The WHO has stated so, repeatedly, no doubt why the rabid Sinophobic Right so detest it.
“I’ve seen remarkably little commentary on…”
Getting there. Don’t stop now.
Beware the Guardianavirus, which has a devastating effect on formerly idealistic journalists, making them sell their souls and become nothing more than pathetic, spineless government stenographers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_hysteria_cases
Fascinating – here’s one example:
“Emirates Flight 203, September 2018 – 106 of 521 passengers on a 14-hour flight from Dubai to New York reported symptoms including coughing, sneezing, fever, or vomiting. The pilot notified airport ground staff, and personnel from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention met and quarantined the plane in New York and evaluated passengers, 11 of whom were sent to the hospital. A few passengers on the “flight from hell” turned out to have common colds or flu, with the other passengers coming to the belief that they were also sick after observing those around them”
This is my favourite case: “Tanganyika laughter epidemic (1962) – The Tanganyika laughter epidemic began on January 30, 1962, at a mission-run boarding school for girls in Kashasha, Tanzania. The laughter started with three girls and spread haphazardly throughout the school, affecting 95 of the 159 pupils, aged 12–18.[19][20] Symptoms lasted from a few hours to 16 days in those affected. The teaching staff were not affected but reported that students were unable to concentrate on their lessons. The school was forced to close down on March 18, 1962.[21] After the school was closed and the students were sent home, the epidemic spread to Nshamba, a village that was home to several of the girls.[21] In April and May, 217 people had laughing attacks in the village, most of them school children and young adults. The Kashasha school was reopened on May 21, only to be closed again at the… Read more »
Fun on the news: Don’t touch your face! DON’T! In fact – keep your hands away from your face at a distance of at least 10 feet!
“…keep your hands away from your face at a distance of at least 10 feet!”
Don’t touch your eyes, nose or mouth and wash your hands after each excursion has been bog standard avoid cold and flu advice for decades. Only now got through to you?
I’m only going by what the most helpful gentleman said on TV. Of course there was no time to go into those pesky little details that would only dilute the delicious panic.
“Of course there was no time to go into those pesky little details that would only dilute the delicious panic.”
Or the bullshit ascribing it to ‘panic’. But ascribing it in all the wrong places.
Ascribing what to panic?
Or at least at arms length. 😁
And another on how the media (the NYT) have stoked the fire over china’s alleged suppression of the facts:
https://mronline.org/2020/03/05/yellow-caking-an-epidemic/
Very good-the definitive rebuttal of the usual Sinophobic lies. I saw one demented individual, an ‘ex’-military type called Spalding, declare on ‘Rising’ yesterday, that the ‘Chinese Communist Party’ had ‘..locked up eleven million people in Wuhan to die’, to approving clucks and nods from the young presenters, one allegedly a ‘progressive’. You cannot buy racial and cultural hatred like that.
Is it racial hatred? Or is it about promoting the meme that really ‘inhumane’ measures are needed to deal with this allegedly deadly virus? The next step will be to say we ‘need’ the same measures in the rest of the world if humanity is to survive. In fact many in the mainstream are already saying it.
This a) normalises massive social repression and b) shuts down the natural dissenters (like you and others here in the alt media) by creating the idea this solution originated in China, the alleged enemy of Western hegemony, and therefore an entity you sympathise with. Thus the traditional opponents of mass social control end up endorsing it.
If true, it’s quite clever.
Yes, but the assertion that eleven million were locked up ‘to die’ when a couple of thousand have despite heroic efforts to reduce harm, is simply deranged lying, driven by hatred. That is primarily what I was criticising.
I’m getting to think a TV set has special powers! If you watch TV then you turn into a Russia-hating-coronavirus-fearing-propaganda-sponge.
Nah you just turn into a moron.
Still more silly moving pictures. I think it’s mental.
A picture is worth a thousand words, an animated gif is worth many more. Animated gifs spare me from typing because osteoarthritis in my hands and fingers restrict me considerably, doofus!
Let me know when you’ve made an intelligent comment (not likely!).
Hi Vierotchka, I am terribly sorry to hear about your condition, and I empathise completely with how frustrating that must be. I am so very sorry. May I give a polite warning, however, not to litter the comments section with animated GIFS. I must politely overrule you on one small point – I do not believe a picture is worth a thousands words in the majority of cases, and most certainly not in the majority of cases you’ve presented today. They clog up the comments board and I shall have to start removing them if you continue in this vein. Would you mind reining this right in? Thanks. Much appreciated. If you would like any help or pointers on sourcing talk-to-type software, of which there is a really great selection nowadays, please send us an email or, maybe even better, and if you feel comfortable, why not ask on here?… Read more »
I discovered something positive in ‘The Guardian’. Do I get a prize?
“In Koblenz, western Germany, 1,400 emergency care doctors and emergency care staff have been meeting for a “Corona Conference” and have warned against the growing hysteria surrounding the virus.
Jörg Brokmann, the congress president, said: “What we have is not a medical situation, we have a political situation”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-update-latest-live-news-symptoms-cases-global-infection-rate-uk-usa-australia-italy-china-updates
Right on Jörg!
I have become so jaded and my opinion of the MSM has sunk so low that I have followed Philip K Dick’s notion that you can fake anything and I am wondering if those latest images of deserted supermarket shelves are a set up. A quick clear out of items for a photo shoot?
I don’t see people panic at all.
However, if I look at the MSM and its direct relation with companies/organizations, there are many many measures taken by institutions to halt this disease from spreading. Like forbidding people to shake hands, don’t conference, and send people home when they have no reason to show up at work (ie can work from home)
Not that I have any against these measures… but the reasoning behind it so obviously hyped (since we do not know how deadly this disease is, and that there are no signs at all that this thing is any different as compared with common cold) that I kind of feel sorry for the ‘experts’ in charge who have to impose these measures. They act like fools and I think they know it, yet have to keep up appearances as this is what the conventional wisdom demands from them…
The problem is a lack of observation, and that the experts don’t call for extra data before running into all kinds of mass hysteria on COVID 19 is mind boggling. I am quite curious to find out how the experts are going to deal with their own foolishness, as they have to at some stage. I suspect a volte face, hidden by another distraction, who knows: aliens?
Still, the expert reaction is quite educational as it is a good example of a ‘jumping to conclusions argument’, which Carl Sagan called the Venusian dinosaur fallacy
https://www.google.nl/amp/s/bigthink.com/the-venutian-dinosaur-fallacy.amp.html
” I am quite curious to find out how the experts are going to deal with their own foolishness, as they have to at some stage. I suspect a volte face, ….”
Now THAT is the 64 trillion dollar question.
What is the punchline – or what is Act II?
How many people die of the common cold within a few days and in a given area , according to you?
I have no idea. Probably not much, as with all coronaviruses.
Of course if you only sample symptomatic and hospitalized patients the rate will go up, as with all coronaviruses.
But perhaps we can agree on the fact that we need some unbiased numbers here in order to know what is going on? That is: a big sample of unselected people who are all screened for COVID 19 and followed through time? To me, that seems the only logical conclusion that one can ask for if one takes COVID 19 seriously. All the rest is jumping to conclusions and mass hysteria.
“…we do not know how deadly this disease is,”
That doesn’t imply there could not be a tight circle of powerful informed insiders who know exactly how dangerous it is, even if
“…there are no signs at all that this thing is any different as compared with common cold…”
as per bioweapons development intent?
Without any means to scrutinize the point, shows that this is a non-sceptical comment, like Russell’s teapot, or Hedges who wants to fight the deep state.
I don’t blame people for stocking up.
I would definitely expect shortages during financial collapse or some other Variety of paradigm change.
There is very little downside to having a full larder of securely-packed relatively non-perishable groceries, but lots of potential upside.
I get it, believe me. Just yesterday I went to the local supermarket for Sesame Oil, and there were ONLY FIVE BOTTLES LEFT! Have you ever tasted a shitake mushroom fried in ordinary vegetable oil?
Where’s the outrage? That’s what I want to know.
The Australian National University predicts that even in the best case the corona virus will kill fifteen million people.https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-toll-global-gdp-loss-australian-national-university-study-2020-3?r=US&IR=T
This one or the next?
This one. Their worst case is sixty-eight million. When researchers come with such wildly differing predictions in the same study, you know they don’t know what they are talking about.
The following is taken from the best article I’ve read on the virus so far: Julia Belluz If you didn’t find the “iceberg” of mild cases in China, what does it say about how deadly the virus is — the case fatality rate? Bruce Aylward It says you’re probably not way off. The average case fatality rate is 3.8 percent in China, but a lot of that is driven by the early epidemic in Wuhan where numbers were higher. If you look outside of Hubei province [where Wuhan is], the case fatality rate is just under 1 percent now. I would not quote that as the number. That’s the mortality in China — and they find cases fast, get them isolated, in treatment, and supported early. Second thing they do is ventilate dozens in the average hospital; they use extracorporeal membrane oxygenation [removing blood from a person’s body and oxygenating… Read more »
Yet more evidence that the Chinese have constructed an efficient, utilitarian and benevolent society, in utter contrast to the sewer that is the neo-liberal West in its death-throes.
BTW, Bruce Aylward is Deputy Director of the WHO. While I’m at it, here’s a couple more excellent articles that are worth reading and that bring some sanity to the madness of capitalism:
https://fair.org/home/coronavirus-alarm-blends-yellow-peril-and-red-scare/
https://mronline.org/2020/03/05/yellow-caking-an-epidemic/
b
Just watched a BBC thug hectoring a WHO official for praising China’s efforts, with consummate Beeb arrogance. All in a hate-deranged report from Matt Frei, the very bottom of the BBC barrel.
you have a link for this or is not on i-player?
Don’t you get the BBC on your TV?
It was just on our ABC News, the local BBC in all ways.
The statistics given in Kit’s article above for the global population are heavily skewed by the Chinese situation. There is no reason to conclude the rest of the world will follow the same pattern. And that’s not even taking into account on whether the statistics are trustworthy at all. No doubt a lot of the “recoveries” were falsely diagnosed to begin with, especially after China switched from blood tests to very ambiguous CT scans.
What’s your point? That the Chinese are lying? Stop with this shit for fuck’s sake! I really am fed up with fucking carping ‘experts’ like you.
As far as Western Sinophobe racists are concerned, the Chinese ALWAYS lie. It’s in their non-Western DNA.
So ignore all the facts that show there is no reason panic – because there MAY be things we have no evidence for that turn out to be very very bad or even worse?
Which of course is technically true now and always. So, fear should be the default I suppose?
There is an agenda in play here.
COVID19 presents a wonderful rationale for macro-failure to an almost infinite number of privileged groups:
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2020/03/04/french-letter-great-plague-special/
Keep the Truth sacred, Kit.
Hystories: Hysterical Epidemics and Modern Media
by Elaine Showalter
https://notthegrubstreetjournal.com/2019/12/23/over-population-paper-how-big-a-waste-paper-basket-ayers-quite-so-twofingers2brino-4pamphleteers-grubstreetjorno-wiki_ballot-financialeyes-iabato-sam-ge2019-roger-lewis-porthos-joebl/
” Climate change remains a subject with a great deal of doubt on all sides.” https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2018/10/11/whats-behind-the-concerted-tsunami-of-climate-fear-headlines/ Really? “For climate change, there are many scientific organizations that study the climate. These alphabet soup of organizations include NASA, NOAA, JMA, WMO, NSIDC, IPCC, UK Met Office, and others. Click on the names for links to their climate-related sites. There are also climate research organizations associated with universities. These are all legitimate scientific sources. If you have to dismiss all of these scientific organizations to reach your opinion, then you are by definition denying the science. If you have to believe that all of these organizations, and all of the climate scientists around the world, and all of the hundred thousand published research papers, and physics, are all somehow part of a global, multigenerational conspiracy to defraud the people, then you are, again, a denier by definition. So if you deny all the above scientific organizations there are a lot… Read more »
Excellent exposition of simple commonsense, but the denialist cultists will not like it.
When is a pandemic not a pandemic? WHO knows and WHO doesn’t! ‘The problem lies in the WHO’s pandemic indicator. It was developed for flu and includes the word influenza throughout…They have one set of pandemic ‘traffic lights’ and their definition is based on spread and does not include a severity component…At present it is triggered by sustained community transmission in multiple WHO regions and has legal consequences.’ [ repeat LEGAL CONSEQUENCES] ‘The changes allowed under a PHEIC or pandemic declaration are not needed in a 2009(H1N1) pandemic where a seasonal flu strain is being replaced by a similar strain. They are needed for this or a high CFR flu. WHO boxed themselves into a corner in 2009 by having a disease that met their definition but did not meet the public, or Nation States, understanding of what a pandemic is.’ https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/china-2019-ncov/-2019-ncov-who-chp-wpro-ecdc-oie-fao-moa-reports-and-updates/831176-who-says-it-no-longer-uses-pandemic-category-but-virus-still-emergency ——– So it is legally a pandemic based… Read more »