We’ve had a couple of people BTL take issue with us regarding the case fatality rate (CFR) of the 1918 Spanish Flu. Citing Wikipedia and the CDC we gave that rate as being between 10-20%. A couple of commenters, however, insisted the actual CFR was 2-3%, and this led us to look further.
What we found was quite interesting.
This is the pre-February 22 2020 opening paragraph of the ‘Mortality’ section on the Wiki page for the Spanish flu (our emphasis):
The global mortality rate from the 1918–1919 pandemic is not known, but an estimated 10% to 20% of those who were infected died (case-fatality ratio). About a third of the world population was infected, and 3% to 6% of the entire global population of over 1800 million died.
This is how the same paragraph reads now:
It is estimated that one third of the global population was infected, and the World Health Organization estimates that 2–3% of those who were infected died (case-fatality ratio).
That’s quite a big change in a pretty short time.
What’s going on? Why is the CFR suddenly being downgraded so dramatically?
The WHO report they use as a source is not about the Spanish Flu, but simply mentions it in passing. It does indeed say 2-3% of those infected died, but gives no source for this, and also claims this represents 20-50 million people.
The trouble with that is the higher range of this estimate (50 million as 2% of total cases) gives a figure of 2.5 billion total cases. Which is higher than the entire population of the world at the time!(1.8 billion).
So something is clearly amiss.
Worse still, the WHO is the only source we have found so far that claims a death toll of 20 million. Most sources, such as the CDC (and see here), broadly agree that between 50 million and 100 million people died of the Spanish Flu (although one recent study wildly differs, see below). In order for 50-100 million deaths to be 2-3% of total cases there would have had to be 2.5 billion – 5 billion cases.
Obviously totally impossible.
Clearly there is something wrong with that newly revised figure of 2-3%. The only way to make it work is to also dramatically revise downward the number of deaths. And indeed there’s evidence of editors trying to do that on Wiki with someone citing a December 2018 study which used a controversial “new methodology” to establish a mortality figure of just 17 million. Given that this number has previously been estimated for India alone, this is remarkable revisionism.
Now, of course, there are debates about numbers of infections versus fatalities in every case study in epidemiology. It’s not an exact science. It’s fluid. Of course, estimates will vary and errors will be made and corrected. There’s more to be said about the inherent uncertainties in these cases, and we are currently talking to a respected virologist with the intention of covering the question further in future. Maybe the previous estimates of infection and fatality were too high. Maybe there is a rational case to be made for lowering them.
But is that what we are seeing on Wiki?
We all know Wikipedia is a micro-managed propaganda organ, so the fact its page on the Spanish Flu began a huge uptick of edits in December 2019, rising steadily until February 2020, and that the bulk of these edits seem concerned with – subtly and overtly – downgrading the severity of the 1918 pandemic has to be of interest.
Why the sudden decision to vastly downgrade the estimated CFR for the 1918 pandemic and source to a rather obscure WHO article that doesn’t even focus on that issue? And, more importantly, why does this extreme downgrade still exist on the page even when editors are pointing out the impossibility of the figures?
At least this new editorial policy by Wiki is well-timed for those looking to stoke fear, and unfortunate for those trying to bring reason to bear. It allows the media and others to cite the newly downgraded 2-3% CFR as evidence that COVID19 is as dangerous as, or more dangerous than, the Spanish Flu and will end up killing millions. That’s some nice clickbait right there.
Is it just human confusion? Maybe.
There is a report by a virologist, and cited by the CDC, that confirms the heretofore commonly accepted 500 million cases and 50-100 million deaths and adds this is a CFR of ‘over2.5%’. Which of course it is. It’s a CFR of 10-20%, as he would be the first to recognise. And 10-20% is over 2.5%.
Maybe his slightly ambiguous wording has led people astray? Maybe people consulting his work, as many do, including the Wiki editors, have taken ‘over 2.5%’ to mean just over, or even to mean exactly2.5%? Maybe that’s all this is.
But at any rate, the error, whatever it is, wherever it came from, isn’t ours. We didn’t make up the 10-20% CFR of Spanish Flu. It was the standard assessment until very, very recently. It still exists, though somewhat hidden now by ambiguous wording and confusion.
Coming next in my bid to write about nothing but COVID19 for the rest of my life: what are the standard tests for this virus? How reliable are they and should you take one?
For direct-transfer bank details click here.
You should no better than to cite Wikipedia (a CIA propaganda device). When I was young the estimated 1918 Swine Flu death toll was said to be between 8 and 12 million. Somewhere in the early 90’s the ‘experts’ decided it was probably closer to 14 million, and from there estimates went up – 20 million, 25 million, 40 million, 50 – 100 million. I watched all these revisions with interest, but knew it was a scam! Ask why the 2009 Swine Flu scare was declared a hoax (to paraphrase) by a European Parliamentary investigation: search for “Wodarg PACE swine flu final report” (from the Parliamentary Assembly of the council of Europe). The BMJ also had an article about it.
Ask why MSM have been beating up every case ofmeasles in the last ten years as if its the plague.
The editing of Wikipedia article is indeed strange, and Wikipedia in the english language at least (which most people end up looking at), does ndeed look like the propaganda organ of the US empire.
That said, I am writing from northern Italy, and I can assure you that coronavirus threat is anything but imaginary: endless flood of patients into hospitals, reanimation units working on the limits of their capacity, with not enough artificial breathing machines, not enougb protection from infection eauipment, and as a result the already understaffed medical personnel get infected and there are even fewer medics to look after the ill.
People are dying being in isolation without the possibility to talk to or see their relatives.
So it is very serious indeed. The fact that this will be probably used as an excuse to introduce even more surveillance and restrictions, is another issue.
Because facts really should be sacred – unless you disagree with them then you will just ignore them!
Joke of a website!
Thanks for your input – maybe you could tell us what facts we are ignoring and we will endeavour to correct
The Great Influenza: The story of the deadliest pandemic in history. John Barry. Well written, researched and he presents as objective. His #’s give a range – worth a look-see
Very interesting and informative article:
British Man Who Beat Coronavirus Describes What He’s Been Through | Cutting Through | LADbible
11 Mar 2020
Connor Reed is an English teacher living in Wuhan. He was the first known Brit to get coronavirus and he’s revealed what it was like.
The coronavirus is a serious issue and one which impacts upon us all as a global community. In times such as these, we instinctively wonder if ourselves or our loved ones could be the next affected. The pursuit of clicks and views on social media tend to be driven by human interest and behaviour, rather than by cold objectivity.
We recognise that we are a big part of that industry. When emotions are high, misinformation tends to surface over facts. But we represent a community of more than 100 million people worldwide. It’s more important than ever that we give you the information you need. Information that is driven, not by word of mouth or hearsay, but by the experts who understand these complex issues and can put them in context.
Our aim with our campaign, Cutting Through, is to provide our community with facts and stories from the people who are either qualified to comment or have experienced first-hand the situation we’re facing. It’s okay to be afraid but this is not the time to bury our heads in the sand. Let’s sit up and pay attention to the people that know what they’re talking about.
Or let’s sit up and pay attention to the data and maintain our own judgment? Is the moment when governments around the world are poised to seize unprecedented and truly terrifying powers on somewhat poorly defined grounds really the time to start making appeals to authority?
Note that those were not my words but part of the video description on YouTube.
11 Mar 2020
We speak to Guy Standing, the former economic adviser to Labour’s John McDonnell. He discusses the spring budget by new Conservative chancellor Rishi Sunak, why he disagrees with there being a budget at all amid the coronavirus outbreak, his worries about Dominic Cummings’ level of control over Boris Johnson and the new Chancellor, whether the UK’s NHS and other public services can withstand pressures from coronavirus the need for a universal basic income and more.
How Can Countries Respond to the Coronavirus Crisis? (Prof. James Robinson)
11 Mar 2020
We speak to Prof. James Robinson of the University of Chicago about the global response to Coronavirus, why he believes China’s statistics can’t be trusted, whether anything can be learned from China’s response to the pandemic, the impact of poor public health policies on the ability to respond to Coronavirus and more!
Just a short “demented tirade” today, folks! :O) (Been cycling to town, and back with a load of groceries, 20 mile round trip, so too knackered to post much.)
A video of Dr. Suzanne Humphries (aaaaaagh! unclean, unclean! aaaaagh! quacketty-quack-quack-quack!) on Vitamin C:
Remember too, to visit Andrew Saul’s ‘Doctor Yourself’ website for a lot more nitty-gritty about how to self-medicate, to arm against Covid-19, both before, during and after infection (you know: when all the beds at your local hospitals are over-subscribed, and you have to self-isolate – and self-treat – at home):
Important additions to his front page today on Coronachok; don’t miss…
PS: Information post for Vierotchka: In case you haven’t noticed, chuck, I’ve stopped reading your posts. ‘Byeeee means what it says. But do go on foaming into the void if it massages your dogmas. It’s a hoot to see. :O) ‘Byeeeee!
Yet you just did!
Your stopping reading my posts obviously is only because
Everything is politicized. The Corona Virus hype too.
It serves several purposes:
a. distraction from impending collapse of nature and society or any other real issues
b. make Tssainahh look bad
c. hurt Tssainahh’s economy
d. excuse for emergency measures and other restrictions, discriminatory policies etc.
e. make money from sensationalist ‘reporting’ and the advertising it generates
f. (hurt the beer brand – most abundant element in the universe is not hydrogen but stupidity)
Please feel free to either debunk my crazy rant or add some.
I, for one, don’t believe any of the bs in the msm.
In this town where I live, and where not one single confirmed case of Coronavirus has occurred, face masks are literally selling for 50 to 100 times their value. And they’re useless against Coronavirus anyway since it’s not spread by aerosol droplet infection.
Same as the town where I live and yet my wife tells me the streets are empty and no-one is going to the shops. She herself is angry that I’m just not taking it seriously. But found a long time ago that you can’t do anything with people who are still hypnotised by the media and under the ludicrous impression that it is comes to you “straight”.
Well isn’t that convenient.
“Well isn’t that convenient.”
There’s nothing wrong with people who think that politicians and their owners will capitalize (no pun) on any mass phenomenon to the disadvantage of their supporters and push every little bit of leverage it gives them to its uttermost limit but
there’s something very wrong with people who think that contagion control is, in itself, a political trick.
As it happens, the full text at the end of the link you’re so happily glib about takes the possibility that the relatively benign effects on the group that currently falls below the at-risk age will be a smile face of their side on when the other, not this year or next but plenty soon enough, they will retrospectively realize that they ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
Well isn’t that convenient.
What does that mean? Explain your rambling in plain non-fractured English or stop posting
Thanks Admin. I thought it was just me that couldn’t figure it out.
I will be going down the pub tonight. Would’nt miss it for ‘all the tea in China’…or anything else in China!
Well, I heard that it spreads from over excited fear porn merchants. My bad! as one might say.
I live on the island of Cyprus, where apparently the first two cases have just been detected in the capital of Nicosia, 87 kilometres away from Limassol where I live. I was out and about this morning and the theatrics were in full view. I had to call in at an office block and the receptionists down below insisted on spraying antiseptic on everyone’s hands while entering. Later I was on a bus and the driver had donned plastic gloves for handling the cash and, mid-journey, stopped to give the bus a spray with something or other. You have to hand it to them. The people who are orchestrating all this hysteria are good at it.
I knew some old guys on Cyprus who said that zivania could cure any illness.
I was in Limassol town centre again this morning. Yesterday, face masks were not very much in evidence, but, guess what, a far greater number of people are wearing them today.
“…. mandatory prevention measures may be necessary to stop its spread. But is the US willing to go as far as Italy – another democracy – or even authoritarian China?”
from the BBC 11/03/2020
Aren’t they priceless: Medical issues have nothing to do with ideology, religion, or democracy.
It’s not just the fatality rate that they are changing. The same sockpuppets have been adding large amounts of text to that same article postulating that the Spanish flu originated in China. Here’s the excerpt from the wiki talk page:
“A user is determined to add some badly written text about China to the article. They have used at least two different usernames to add it: see  and . Those accounts were created on 20 and 25 September this year. A third account may be connected having made related edits: . This user’s current account has a username relating to pornography which is also inappropriate. Taputa (talk) 12:00, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
First of all, I’m the user who added the text that you keep deleting , and I am not the same person as User:Lauraspinney or User:Interracial-is-best. Second of all, please show me an objection you have to the text I made. I have cited the following sources in support of what I wrote
Langford, Humphrey, KF Cheng, Saunders-Hastings, Killingray, among many other authors have supported the China origin hypothesis for the 1918 flu pandemic. I have cited published peer-reviewed, multidisciplinary papers that have supported this view. What exactly is wrong with what I wrote? I see you complain about the quality of writing and word choice. Well then, please improve it for me. English is not my first language, so if you think what I wrote needs improvement, please fix incorrect word-choices, grammar, or poor sentence structures. Other than that? What other problem is there with what I wrote?
Laputa-skye (talk) 00:16, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Two users, created days apart less than three months ago, both adding exactly the same large chunk of text, are very obviously sockpuppets. I therefore do not trust that it is accurate. You need to make the case here for why the article suddenly needs to be significantly changed. Taputa (talk) 08:10, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Both accounts have also edited Boxer Rebellion, so 2 in common out of the 12 and 5 articles the accounts have edited. If one looks at both sets of contributions, one sees that when one account is active, the other is not. Taputa (talk) 16:47, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
@Taputa: If you’re going to make sockpuppetry allegations, then you should open a case at WP:SPI and do so properly, rather than continuing to edit war. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:00, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
I have just reinserted the paragraphs in question. I don’t see anything wrong with the English. I don’t see in what way the editor’s name has something to do with pornography (as Taputa says), nor what that has to do with whether his or her edit should be accepted. There was argument about whether it should be in the lede, but in the end he or she put that paragraph lower down, and then it was still deleted. I think it was unfair, and a case of people ganging up on someone. If someone has some objections to these paragraphs, then improve them, don’t just revert! Eric Kvaalen (talk) 16:35, 11 February 2020 (UTC) “
but far too many people think it is
It all depends on the subject. With regard to controversial subjects, it is a very faulty and unreliable source, but with many other subjects, it is a perfectly sound source.
I always check the usually long list of references and external links, and the list of edits too.
Never touch the lying heap of manure with a barge-pole, **regardless of subject!**
Wikideceivia delenda est!
You epitomize the expression that ignorance is bliss!
You can feel free to read anything on the net as long as you check the references – which is easy. Even if none are explicitly given you can copy/paste a quoted section with inverted commas into a search engine and see where it came from. I have sometimes done this only to find that the only place that uses the quote is the very page I read it on! And there are plenty of chunks of text that become boilerplate – even though they may originate from misappropriation. (Or in some cases, they’re just bullshit.)
I also spend a lot of time in the University library checking the WikiPedia references, among many other things.
Italy is the world’s 8th largest economy (and that’s just declared income).
By putting such a country into lock down you are not only trashing the Italian economy (which was on the verge of collapse, anyway), you are also bringing down the global economy.
Many people don’t seem to realise this.
“I heard explosions going off….boom, boom, boom, boom”
The virus is really quite dangerous, and so is the agenda behind its release. I’ve been trying to argue against the attempts to separate these two assertions.
We are entering the maelstrom.
I am one who is convinced that Israel will emerge on the other side as the global hub of the new cybernetic system and new money-energy paradigm.
Once we are all where Italy is now (in about a fortnight to a month’s time) the vaccine will emerge and the ransom demands will be made.
Can you be a little more specific please?
Won’t people wonder how the vaccine was produced so quickly?
Once this ‘wonder vaccine’ Comes out, can’t it be reverse-engineered to get around the ‘ransom demands’?
it’s rather unlikely that the vast masses of people who happily swallowed the 9/11 event and “ISIS”, will ask many questions about the speed of vaccine development.
as for “no money — no vaccine”, that’s a deal that I would eagerly accept.
Quite right milo! Who needs vaccines – untested, of course – when you can use the tried and tested massive-dose VitC treatment – so long as you’ve stocked up a kilogram or three? Get it by IV if you can find a cooperative doctor; otherwise, by mouth, at home.
So, according to you, massive-dose Vitamin C treated is tried and tested with regard to Covid-19?
It’s all made possible by the experts, who bought themselves into the narrative by not questioning
A. That the exposure is not well defined
B. That the outcome may not be related with the exposure even if the exposure was well defined
C. That the population in whom the death rate was obtained is biased (from symptomatic/admitted patients
Experts never really question ad a-c, but prefer to go in maximum overdrive and say that ‘the system cannot hold, because patients with COVID 19 are overflowing IC units’ and that therefore we have to close down regions and self quarantine.
I almost bought this narrative myself, after reading MoA today (see below), but that storyline doesn’t make sense because of ad a-c and it’s also nothing more than hearsay (that IC units are overflowing because of COVID 19 instead of eg hysteria and prudent doctors who do not want to let a single COVID 19 case die without intubation; and that is based on the assumption that IC units in Italy ARE overflowing, of which I haven’t seen any evidence and is just hearsay).
It’s understandable that experts propose quarantine measures though because the experts are employed by hospitals and the hospital CEOs (generally non-medical schooled businessmen) are scared shitless by newspaper lines that could state that some patient with COVID 19 suffocated because he was not admitted in hospital x.
This has nothing to do with science, but only with prudence of ‘concerned’ doctors and hospital CEOs who do not want to get bad news coverage of their hospital and/or law suits.
This hoax is perpetuated by cowardice, that is experts who do not dare to think for themselves and just go along with the hearsay of overburdened hospitals in Italy due to COVID 19.
Btw, the reason why in the 1990s experts advocated EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE, was that there was too much hearsay (doctors who had all kinds of stories about their patients) which was killing the profession. Suddenly all forgotten by the same experts…
Still, a scientific question can only be posed if
The exposure is well defined
The outcome is well defined
The population is well defined
Without these 3 key assumptions all epidemiologic studies are worthless.
I am sure the experts know this. That is that I know that THEY KNOW that they are full of shit when they propose quarantine measures because of COVID 19, because they know that the science behind it is worthless. They must know, they are not crazy, but the conventional wisdom does not allow them to say that they are full of shit when they say that regions must be quarantined and therefore must act as if they believe what they say. In a way, it’s pitiful… Perhaps this is a good reason why one should never want to become an expert… I, for one, am happy not to be an expert just because of this reason!
Experts probably know from experience (it is not the first time that experts lie) that people are gullible, and that the media is their friend in bamboozling people when it fits the media’s narrative and that therefore they can bluff their way through. Still they must also know that they cannot bamboozle the whole world and that there are people who can see straight through them, thereby acting as their bad conscience.
COVID 19 will pass. Not because of the sanitation rules of the experts, but because coronavirus is a self limiting disease. But what, annoyingly, will be spun out of this in the next coming months, is that the experts, once more, saved us from disaster. True, quarantining economic zones killed the economy, but this was necessary, the media and experts will say, in order to save us. Experts will pat themselves on the back, saying “we are the cool headed world saviors”. And they will receive prizes for being cool headed from one and another and get a lot of respect from the MSM community, while all they did, in fact, was helping TPTB to implode the economy thereby imposing austerity measures leading to many problems for the have nots.
And they will lose lots of sleep, wondering at night what the hell they did accomplish with their ‘cool headednes’ and that is how this will end.
Comrade Black, 20% has been memory-holed.
The correct figure is 2%.
Room 101 is waiting for you should you disagree.
I must ask – what is your greatest fear? Rats? Or you standing over Trump with him enjoying your golden showers?..and then with Netanyahu waiting next in line?
There’s an op ed in today’s Washington Post by Tom Bossert, who served as homeland security adviser to Trump in 2017-8. In the op ed, Bossert says the Spanish flu killed 50-100 million people around the globe in 1918.
168 people died of coronavirus in Italy today. This is not a case of the sniffles!
And about 500 died from seasonal flu (much of which is included in the figures for Frankenstein flu – And I should point out that there is still no reliable test for Frankenstein flu).
If you like fear porn check out one of many ‘friendly doctors’ who are pumping out propaganda all over the internet at the moment…
500 died today in Italy from flu? You might as well say the disease doesn’t exist at all and that it is all made up
I’m not saying that it’s made-up; just vastly exaggerated by the psychopaths who rule us.
I posted elsewhere…
Today, the UK has about 400 cases out of a population of 65,000,000, that’s 0.00062% of the population infected.
Where I live has 500 cases out of a population of 8,000,000, that’s 0.0062% of the population infected. That’s 10 times more than the UK
There’s sensible precautions here, but no panic, despite Italy being on our border.
Despite the facts and risks, it seems that in the UK there’s mass hysteria?
By the way, what’s happened to Boris, is he still on holiday, or did he die of COVID-19 ?
Just caught Kuenssberg on BBC news announcing a likely £600bn government spending spree in the budget. Not a peep about where it’s coming from. So different from the response to Labour spending plans.
How can you watch Kuenssberg and not vomit?
The Marxist continent continue to disappoint:
An unintentionally hilarious bit is where they suggest the strategy of the government:
Admittedly they are talking about the American response. Perhaps it takes the Yanks longer to latch on to the economic/political potential of panic?
In any case I was so fed up with the WSWS swallowing the spook-aid that I left a comment suggesting that the crapola virus may be the opposite of a chink in capitalism’s armour. Hell – I’ve even got two up-votes! The revolution begins!
For those who know French:
This connection may have been brought up here before but it is worth repeating… coincidence much –
5G network coming to Wuhan
If you want a more lengthy chatty conspirational cuppa tea kind of insight take a look here –
The BEST NEWS re CΟRΟNΑ VΙrus you’ve heard all month! Kinda
By their acts shall ye know them. And the timeline of their acts.
A great find – which points directly to a manipulated event.
20,000+ US troops are arriving in Poland right now for a massive military” training exercise”, loads of heavy artillery arriving. Not a great marker for things to come
With reference to the attached link, it would appear that Poland may have been persuaded to overlook the military “training exercise”. 😀
[link fixed. A2]
The “Spanish” flu wasn’t so much Spanish as American — apparently it incubated in US Army camps and then came to Europe along with the doughboys. So maybe the Poles would be wise to postpone their training exercises? (But knowing the Polish government that’s unlikely — they’re hell bent on revising world history and maybe starting WW3 while they’re at it.)(Not much has changed since the 1930s, apparently.)
It’s obvious what’s going on with the Frankenstein flu. The lock down of Italy, one of the world’s biggest economies, will cause a global financial crash, a crash that was coming anyway. It looks like France will follow suit in a week or so, and Britain too. 1984 has finally arrived.
But you have to keep a sense of humour…
A breath of sanity offered to this silliness
Keep writing about coronavirus, Catte Black. In store for us is Army on the streets (see the mitigation phase of UK’s response plan) – doing what? Enforcing curfew at gunpoint?
This is 9/11 size psyop, so it needs a giant kick in the testicles – to come from the alternative narrative.
This is where ‘our heroes ‘come into play, and would have no difficulty in shooting you if they had to, that’s why I have very little sympathy towards them, nobody asks them to join up, and they’re certainly not going to war on my behalf.
Boris Johnson’s government is about to pass sweeping laws that will, in effect, turn Britain into a police state…
And how many sci-fi/horror/fantasy films and TV progs have featured the “army takes over” scenario? “Fear the Walking Dead” was one of the more recent. We have been well trained for this.
Much like what we went through during the LA Riots in ’92.
Absolutely obvious what is going on: fiddling the data to make past seem less bad and current far worse.
Just like fiddling global temperature data to make the past colder and the present warmer.
This shows the lengths the liars are prepared to go to to enforce their panic, panic world in 2020.
There simply is no reason nor context to claiming CoVid19 is the worst thing ever. We are not even yet anywhere near 100,000 global deaths, which would be just over 1 in 100,000 of the world’s population. Hardly needing to put humans on a ‘species at risk’ list, are we?
I am not going to get remotely excited nor concerned until 100,000 dead have been recorded and that death rates at that time are accelerating, not declining.
It may sound callous, but there is every difference between treating every patient properly and creating panic through ridiculous media propaganda blitzes, for which there should be only one outcome: every employee of every major media station globally must never travel again, because it is too dangerous for them to do so. None of them will travel on business, none will have foreign holidays and all will get rid of their private cars as they are all green fascists too.
They stopped listening to reason 10 years and more ago.
Now it is time to get them to respond to coercion.
You are deliberately and maliciously conflating Wikipedia edits regarding past epidemiology with years of solid, uncontroversial research on climate. Shame on you.
No – it’s a very good comparison.
Same shit, different scare Story!
No, it’s absolute bollocks. There is NO evidence of manipulation of climate records, and if you are not frightened by rapid climate destabilisation, then you are seriously unwell.
If you want some, look in the skips outside the University of East Anglia.
Would you call Michael Mann’s Hockey Stick “solid research”?
And how does “Climate Gate” fit into your rosy picture?
There are literally hundreds of ‘hockey-sticks’, graphs showing the effects of the last two hundred years of industrial and population growth, in temperatures, greenhouse gas emissions, population growth, use of resources, species extinction etc. It’s just illustrative of exponential growth in the capitalist system. The magic expression ‘hockey-stick’ gets the Dunning-Krugerites agitated, but, as ever, they have no idea.
The hockey stick was a lie, created by grafting surface temp data onto tree ring data to hide the fact the latter tree ring data did not match the surface temp increases, thus invalidating their role as proxies for earlier temp variations.
“Here are some graphs I made up earlier.”
Well said, pasha, but the local denialists obviously love the gobbledegook.
There is no ‘fiddling’ of temperature records, which makes the rest of your contribution less convincing.
Okay, so the argument is that in Italy Intensive care wards are overflowing with Covid 19 cases and that therefore we have to self quarantine ourselves to prevent spread of the virus.
Question, is there any reliable data that actually shows this, for instance are there cases who are currently not admitted to intensive care units in Italy because of Covid 19 and die?
The question is of course, what is reliable, but I think about friends and relatives who are in rage because some hospital did not admit their loved one because the IC was full.
I haven’t seen any of this, except from hearsay and that is why I ask
I would imagine that one effect of the new regulations is to make it more difficult to get that kind of Information.
Names of the dead plus death certificates signed by doctors giving the cause of death would also be good to have.
Good question. Do we have actual evidence of people on the ground and their experiences? Are there interviews with angry relatives whose loved ones can’t get access to ICU?
And what are comparable figures for those treated for other lung infections?
Most importantly how are these cases diagnosed and differentiated from seasonal flu, viral pneumonia, environmental lung disease, bacterial pneumonia etc? Are we expected to believe the hospitals are simultaneously stretched to breaking point and doing individual PCR tests on every single person with a cough and fever who presents at the emergency room?
A thousand ‘new’ cases in Italy yesterday suggests they are now diagnosing by symptoms merely, hence the spike. Same thing happened in Hubei last month, but more so. On the day they stopped using PCR as a diagnostic 13,000 ‘new’ cases were discovered, because everyone presenting with flu/pneumonia was diagnosed as a coronavirus case!
It becomes self-perpetuating. Create enough fear and medical professionals begin erring on the side of caution, diagnosing all possible cases as ‘confirmed’. This inflates case numbers, which generates more panic, and so on.
MoA has an article on this and it looks convincing. The story told (of overflowing medical care) there is based on an Italian dr called Daniele Macchini and he works in this hospital.
How reliable is he?
I truly don’t know, that is why I ask..
It seems that the story of the infections in Italy as being unconnected with the type of spread in South Korea is the interesting one.
It could well be that they are dofferent strains !
We need more info on the Italian origins and time lines.
I think bernard is correct about the ‘shape’ that we in the West generally are likely to face i.e a shorter outbreak but with greater numbers because we are unable to isolate our patients sufficiently.
Maybe the answer is to fly our infected off to Hubei – they will havethoysands of beds free and PLENTY of trained and available staff and equipment that would allow treatment without prolonged intubation!
I suppose we could see a breakdown of our NHS and the severe understaffing revealed forcing a major government intervention which really would screw up their further privatisation plans. It seems the US may have to implement a ‘NHS’ of their own by default! Certainly in their major conurbations – though it is likely that they could control the spread by simply grounding their internal flights for a week or two.
Trump could yet turn this to his advantage especially if the Dems are going to persue with their insane suicidal Biden candidacy!
Whether he tries to save the bankers or the average workers as the bubble pops will decide the next president. The epidemic will have passed in two months.
In fact, I think it is what you call:
‘It becomes self-perpetuating. Create enough fear and medical professionals begin erring on the side of caution, diagnosing all possible cases as ‘confirmed’. This inflates case numbers, which generates more panic, and so on’
It’s all hysteria
I’m waiting impatiently for Putin and RussiaRussiaRussia to be blamed for the coronavirus outbreak. This is because they are congenitally evil and obviously laced the bat soup with coronachok. Putin (sneer) is literally that diabolical, which is why he is now rubbing his hands and cackling uncontrollably over yesterday’s stockmarket crash.
Further proof of this, if needed, was given on a major French political TV show last Sunday evening, when Bernard Guetta, a well-known retired journalist and current Macronist MEP, said, or rather shouted, that the Russian airforce ‘deliberately bombs kindergartens’ in Idlib. As bombing kindergartens (or hospitals, if no kindergartens are available) is clearly the best way to win a war and therefore the first thing future Russian commanders learn when they go to officer training school, this makes undeniable sense. Mr Guetta is a very reliable source (much like Ms Madcow, as a comparison for Off-G’s US readers), who always used to refer to the Syrian president as ‘the butcher of Damascus’ in his daily ‘Géopolitique’ editorial on French state radio. You couldn’t actually see Mr Guetta foaming at the mouth in righteous indignation, but you knew it was happening behind the microphone and were grateful at being told how to think properly.
On the same TV show, they also showed a tweet from another French MEP, Raphaël Glucksman (a sort of softcore, quasi-socialist ‘philosopher’), lamenting the death of a Syrian refugee allegedly shot dead by Greek border guards last week after fleeing Aleppo, which we are told was razed to the ground with all its last hospitals by the Russians and no longer exists. So the refugee crisis is in fact the Russians’ fault, as we all suspected anyway. They are truly blessed, here in France, with the quality of their MEPs. I could write about the number of refugees taken in by, respectively, (a) Turkey, (b) Greece, and (c) France, ‘the land of human rights’, but I am already off-topic and too long, and it wouldn’t fit my narrative.
P.S. – Anyone who downvotes this is a Putinbot and Russian asset.
The hospitals in Syria that were “bombed by Russia” are intact
Totally in stitches over coronachok, made my day. But you are a Putinbot, of course 🤪
Ah, Aleppo, the most lied about spot on Earth. Glucksman is no doubt very annoyed that the Oded Yinon Plan is failing, for now, in Syria.
Wikipedia has long been exposed as taken over by the Deep State. It was early seen how widely Wikipedia was used and, so, it was hijacked for subtly spreading propaganda by nuanced amendments and omissions, especially in articles on political figures. Given Wikipedia’s wide readership, such propaganda has disproportionately large effects.
No wonder it’s been taken over.
Wikipedia is the new main stream media.
More to the point, Wiki is the Undercover CIA Fact Book.
Not “taken over”, it is what it is from the beginning. Jimmy Wales is not a messiah.
“Coming next in my bid to write about nothing but COVID19 for the rest of my life: what are the standard tests for this virus? How reliable are they and should you take one?”
Very much looking forward to that one.
Well, if the only subject you ever write about again, turns out to be the largest psyop of all time, ushering in perhaps the biggest geopolitical change since 1945, then at least you have a large and fascinating topic with many aspects.
I know it’s a con when Medicare encourages me to get tested for Corona-chan. Each test is money transferred into Private pockets.
Seniors and Medicare are similar to cattle in the field, whenever the Farmer needs to cash in, that is when the Farmer herds the cattle into the barn. Dairy and/or Beef.
My bank just sent me an email advising me that they are there to help me, if I find myself in financial difficulty due to Corona-chan. Most likely interest bearing loans, that I can take a long time to pay back.
An extensive list of scientists who disagree with the so called climate change consensus (which is not) one day disappeared from wikipedia. I used that list in many discussions throughout the years, to show how it was not the flat earthers and oil magnates, but some the world´s top scientists who were the most vociferous opponents of the flawed science (enabling the politics) of climate change/global warming/climate apocalypse.
This is the old url, which doesn´t work anymore:
And here an archived version:
It is almost as if there were some wikipedia editors panicking when we find information that would prevent collective hysteria. It is interesting to note that the latest version of that entry was put down as the world discussed the 2019 United Nations Climate Change Conference. It would seem also as that some editors have certain urgency to edit articles as “history evolves”, to control the narrative.
None of these scientists listed are qualified, they are scientits in a whole bunch of disciplines unrelated to climate. None of them are climatologists. This list has been debunked over and over again.
It NEVER matters. The hard Right ideologues and Dunning-Krugerite dupes will never cease peddling their garbage, until the very bitter end. In the end it comes down to ego-the greater the ignorance, the bigger the ego. Carve it on humanity’s tombstone.
Of course I forgot the fundamental step of character assassination and outright childish name calling. Just to point to the fact that there are world class scientists who disagree with the mainstream theory of climate change makes one “hard right”.
I wonder what are you doing in a site like this, Richard?
The (attempt for an) argument when dealing with “climate change consensus” goes like this:
1) Only scientists can speak about climate change, because those are the only ones with the expertise to speak about the subject (obviously 16 year old girls, financiers and propagandists share this expertise and are given world stages to speak about climate science, but that is another story).
2) Then, when it is pointed out that many top scientists, from many disciplines, disagree with the mainstream theory of climate change® , it is argued that these are scientists without expertise in climate science (which obviously make Nobel prize winners in f.e. physics unqualified to give an opinion, unlike the average internet commentator, who lectures everyone around as if he/she had much better understanding and qualifications).
3) When a list of some of the worlds top scientists which INCLUDES eminences on climate/earth sciences (a sample below) is provided, then the “climate change believer” (as opposed to us the “deniers®”) ignores those eminences and wishes that the list is thrown into the memory hole, as it happened with the wiki article linked above.
Shall I go on? or perhaps can you please explain to us how was this “debunked”?
Those are the handful of scientists who were paid by the Fossil Fuel corporations.
And surely you can prove that easily? Otherwise I would recommend you two just say that these scientists are mean, stick your tongue out and let the rest of us adults discuss the implications of the censorship and the biased interpretation of public information that you appear to support.
The list is of the usual suspects. thoroughly discredited cranks or corrupt employees of the Right and/or the fossil fuel industry. The ‘..world’s top scientists..’, my posterior! Against these you have ALL the Academies of Science and scientific societies on Earth, and you choose the cranks.
Proof of this please, Richard? Because, you can shout as loud as you can those buzzwords, you can attempt everyone to believe that I am from the hard right, or that the scientists on the “denier camp” are the only ones susceptible to corruption (your reply to my comment on this very issue is almost 4 months overdue now), but that will not make your claims true. In a site like this we reason and we deal with evidence. You are not looking very good to be honest.
I am looking forward for your evidence based, well reasoned and constructive reply.
Let’s be sure to keep this on-topic. Climate Science talk so easily gets passionate, and so easily hijacks the conversation. A2
Agreed. It was not my intention to make it about climate science. But it is hard to leave the character assassination and the evidence less claims unchallenged. I would be very happy if we close this conversation after Vierotchka and Richard provide evidence for their assertions and comment on the fact that wikipedia editors erase articles and re-interpret information as events unfold. I would like to think that they totally oppose this.
Yeah, I have noted recently that more often than not it’s non-skeptics who appear to become sweeping and impatient first on this issue. I don’t know why exactly, I don’t think it furthers the cause, and it can be very frustrating to be on the receiving end of. No one likes to feel glibly dismissed out of hand, particularly after making the effort to present an argument.
I think everyone should refrain from this non-debate tactic BTL. It doesn’t foster an environment of respectful and open debate.
Saying that, no, this isn’t really the place to have that debate, but an arena will present itself at some point, of that I have no doubt!!
Very suspicious, I agree. A flu that killed more people than the millions who lost their lives in the First World War has to have a mortality rate higher than 2%.
Clearly the media are gearing up for ‘worst virus ever’ stories and don’t want the facts to get in the way.
The question is though: did it?
i. e. did the misleadingly-named “Spanish Flu” kill more than those killed in WW1?
Two difficulties here are the unreliability of records in the circumstances, and the fact that the flu partly overlapped the war, so for civilian deaths especially, we’re they killed by the war or the flu? (or both, indirectly)
Similar to how every normal, but heavier, winter snow is “Snowmageddon” in the local news. Especially when it affects Wall Street or Washington, DC.
Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Chief Medical Officer of England said today:
“We will have significant numbers in a way which I think the country is not used to … so large numbers of the population will become infected but because it’s a naive population, nobody has got antibodies to this virus currently.”
Officially confirmed – ‘a naive population’
I think the word should have been “native”.
It’s a technical term meaning the population has not encountered this virus before, so has no immunity to it.
Enjoy your freedom of information while it lasts:
Note the example of false news: “homeopaths promoting false treatments online”. Sounds reasonable. But this channeling of info will also stop anyone questioning the entire narrative.
Why would “homeopaths promoting false treatments online” sound reasonable? Orthodoxy-defending fanatics making wholly unsupported and untested statements isn’t reasonable, it’s just prejudice-wanking. Has anyone yet done controlled studies with Covid-19 using homeopathic remedies? So – how would they know?
Btw, here’s a copy of a comment that I’ve just posted on b’s Moon of Alabama website:
I’m nearing 80, and I haven’t had a cold or flu for over 20 years. Nor have I ever had any truck with the Big Pharma gangsters’ for-profit junk injections. I’m out and about in public places virtually every day.
I put my apparent immunity down to my big-dose VitaminC self-therapy: Two timed-release 1 gram tablets per day, one first thing, one at night, as a permanent regime. This rises instantly to AT LEAST 10 grams per day (sic!), spaced out evenly over the 24 hours, the moment I feel any of the early warning symptoms that some respiratory intruder is having a go at me.
Invariably (sic!), for 20+ years the warnings evaporate overnight, and I’m symptom-free again by morning.
If I were suffering acute respiratory illness, I would up my doses to AT LEAST 50 grams a day (sic!) by mouth, spaced out in short intervals, using literally ANY form of C that I could get. If the health system could give it to me, I would also ask for IV-C treatments, at a MINIMUM rate of at least 100 grams per shot (yes, that says one hundred grams!), every other day, or – in extremis – every day. Note that – despite – the lies of ignorant mediawhores whoring for Big Pharma, there is no known lethal dose for Vitamin C. Deranged people have been known to take by mouth hundreds of grams per day, without noticeable ill effect.
C is a PROVEN powerful, very wide-acting anti-bacterial and anti-viral medicine, and also damps down inflammation. It has been shown to be an effective curative against powerful killer diseases – IN SUFFICIENTLY LARGE IV DOSES – by clinicians working at the sharp-end of epidemics since at least the 1940s.
For much more information of very high – peer-reviewed, strictly non-commercial – quality, about all this, all available free, see Andrew Saul’s ‘Doctor Yourself’ website; which now has a number of new entries on its front page on coronavirus. There is a search function also:
We absolutely need good, non-commercial public health services in all countries, set up to handle and survive crises like Covid-19. But there’s no need to be helplessly dependent just on that. Self-help, working in tandem with the professionals, is also effective. In case of a health service overwhelmed by a flood of acute patients, including lots of sick staff, it’s the only alternative for self-isolators. Note that, in pursuit of cardio-vascular health support, I also self-medicate with two 10mg doses of home-grown, organic cannabis oil per day, morning and night. That too has wide-acting immune-system support functions as well. And it keeps me cheerful! 🙂 Like C, any LD level still seems to be unknown, and the small tally of fairly minor bad side-effects of which I know, that afflict a small percentage of heavy recreational pot-smokers (I’ve never smoked anything) are no big problem, it seems. – RhG
You’re supposed to take vitamin C until you nearly get diarrhea. I have never managed to take more than 2 grams without getting dreadful diarrhea. But I agree with you on principle.
Try taking vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid powder rather than tablets from the pharmacy. I have been taking ascorbic acid for many years, varying the quantity according to my needs.
I can take a lot more than that, but it varies a lot, with how I am at the time.
Btw Amla berries are a good, relatively natural source of vit C. You can get it in dried form. (But I have no objection to synthetic vitamin C. In fact I use both).
That’s unlucky, Jane. Perhaps your best course would be to keep taking the two grams a day as a maintenance supplement, but see whether you can find a doctor who’s prepared to agree with you beforehand that if you ever get seriously ill he will administer large doses intravenously according to the protocols and schedules given on Andrew Saul’s website. I believe the IV route avoids the diarrhoea complication, and in a life-threatening situation it could save you.
Sounds like you probably have a good excuse to stockpile toilet rolls. 😀
Sorry, couldn’t resist it!
And, among many others:
Can someone be infected with a cold virus and not show symptoms?
So it is most likely that you often have had both the flu and the common cold without knowing it, and infected other people.
I doubt that, Vierotchka. Even when not feeling so much as the slight early warning signs – which happens less than once a year – I’m always on two grams of C a day.
And, what with that, plus my lucky inheritance of a robust peasant constitution from my ancestors, which I’ve never compromised by booze’n’fags’n’such, and which I’ve always kept physically active (still actively gathering and sawing up firewood for my stove every day, as well as cycling everywhere, having no car), and because of all this apparently maintaining a potent immune system (ably muscled up even further by my two minders C and Canna) I doubt whether asymptomatic intruders get much shrift in my system before being killed by the ‘big white dogs’ and flushed.
Here’s the sort of thing I mean. When I was younger and spryer I used to keep four members of one of this family of working flock-guardian breeds, all Anatolian Shepherd dogs. They’re my favourite metaphoric image for my white blood corpuscles when doing shamanic work to supplement my herbal applications for health maintenance:
I think that you’re in denial.
No, the local river is the Avon. :O)
With homeopathy thing, I was just going along with a common prejudice. But I was thinking about how the example of “fake news” they were giving wasn’t an example of what they really fear i.e. that some would question the basic pandemic narrative. It’s the old move where they close off channels of communication because they claim to be countering terrorism or protecting kids against porn etc. but what they are really doing is using these examples as justification for eliminating free speech altogether.
Did I hear something about a department – a whole department! – called The Department of Counter-disinformation being set up? It doesn’t get more Orwellian than that. BTW – what’s ‘disinformation’? Is it something like ‘misinformation’?
It doesn’t get more Orwellian than that.
— it would, if they called it the Ministry of Truth.
The difference between “misinformation” and “disinformation” is that while they’re both false, the first is only inadvertently so, whereas the second is intentionally so. lies versus mistakes.
What would we do without milosevic to inform us … ?
How about we discuss the science of engineering the weather, instead of discussing your disinformation and childish clarifications, that were never needed …
Strange how much time milosevic seems to have on his hands and how he frequents just about everybody’s threads, every darn day, as if he were policing his own comments columns, accusing all & sundry of being disinformation shills for the CIA.
Now, milosevic feels the need to define his role, for complete clarity … 😉
Carry on commenting, about your fixation on projection/transference, disinformation & avoiding answering any darn question, like … Where do you live / hang out, or is that again another simple honest question that you are also never prepared to answer ?
How about we discuss the science of engineering the weather
how about you manage your own disinfo operation, you’re the one who’s being paid for it.
As always, More projection & transference …
Milosevic >>> Not even prepared to stand up and be counted, as to where you even live ! Like most pseudo-dissidents, trying desperately to avoid even the slightest bit of real info. just delivering pure disinformation !
Milosevic must be projecting and transferring, because HONEST people are quite happy to discuss in which land and under whose jurisdiction they find themselves >>> worm your way out of this reality, you fuckin’ shill !
Homeopathy has been double blind tested numerous times, even on animals, and found to be effective. The reason it is rejected is because it contradicts the currently favoured exp-lanations for how the world works. Just as in the so-called Dark Ages and just as in Medieval times, we eschew observation and data in favour of doctrine. The only difference is the doctrines themselves. ‘Twas always so, will always be so.
No, it hasn’t at all been found to be effective.
I’ve seen homeopathy work on babies and animals. Where is the placebo there? There is simply some mechanism at work not yet understood by science, and one that threatens Big Pharma and allopathic medicine’s monopoly. I go with what works.
Fluke – they would have recovered without it.
On the other hand, I’ve seen it fail dismally on many babies who ended up in hospital in serious conditions because their parents used homeopathy and excluded allopathy. I’ve seen it fail dismally on people who had cancer and who died of their cancer – especially one wonderful woman who didn’t believe in allopathy but used homeopathy, whose cancer of the breast left a HUGE gaping and bleeding hole across half her chest. I’ve also seen it fail totally on animals whose owners finally took them to the vet.
Yes it has been, repeatedly. Vierotchka, you’re not one of the fanatical guardians of current scientific orthodoxy, are you: Those who get hysterical about things like homeopathy and psi, neither of which can be made to fit into their reductive-materialism world-view – and yet they’re both demonstrably, replicably real, to anyone who approaches them with the mind-set of the true scientist: genuinely open-minded scepticism. ‘Nature’ and the Smithsonian as the ultimate arbiters of such things? Joke!
Links from credible sources, please, and not from quacks like Mercola et al.
Ah yes, true colours showing V. Doctor Mercola as a ‘quack’. Riiiight, sure!
Are you a card-carrying member of the Richard Dawkins appreciation-club, V? By the way you insist on the hard reductive-materialist approach to everything – in the face of massive evidence to the contrary – you sure sound like it. Never any point in trying to reason with people who KNOW THE TRUTH, of course, so I won’t bother. I’ll stick with my own personal experience, and that of my associates – whatever the Dawkinoids may screech. ‘Byeeee! 🙂
I knew you wouldn’t be able to provide me with any links to credible sources! Massive fail on your part!
As for the rest of your demented diatribe, I can only ascribe it to your old timer’s disease.
“…May God us keep / From single vision and Newton’s sleep!” :O)
(Seriously, folks! If anyone else is bothering with this silly spat, heed my ‘massively-failing demented tirade’ – sic! :O) – on VitC. It could save the lives of you and your nearest and dearest if the coronahysteria really starts to screw things up. If you need copious evidence, study Andrew Saul’s ‘Doctor Yourself’ website for the realworld information on the subject. And an actually open-minded try-out with homeopathic remedies is likely to give you some encouraging help too. Never mind the Dawkinsoids with their fanatical scientismic dogmas; suck it and see. Try the evidence of your own lying eyes! You may get a pleasant surprise; millions do…)
And with that I’ll bow out now from any further effort to reason with V’s single sleep. Foam on into the void, V! “Byeeeeeeeee! 🙂
Oh dear, the years really have not been kind at all to your synapses!
With regard to your Dawkins reference, all I can say is that you obviously didn’t evolve – everybody else did!
Homeopathy threatens the medical-pharmaceutical industrial complex and billions in profits, hence the presstitutes’ disdain.
It all makes sense. If you were in charge and were determined to hang on to your bloated privileges, then what would you do if you knew that a vast crash was about to happen? For decades you have been coming up with various public management manoeuvres – “the Commies”. “the Islamofascists” etc. But you’ve squeezed those options dry. Then it dawns on you …a virus! Something nobody can even see. Better still: make it a virus with symptoms like the the common cold. And the moment anyone even coughs they will scream and lock themselves in the bathroom forever!
But there’s still room for some fun. I have noticed that the one area of news not affected by this virus is …the ubiquitous sport. You can therefore have the following pattern for the news broadcasts:
“YOU’RE ALL GOING TO DIE! YOU’RE ALL GOING TO DIE! …and now, the sport.”
— that still doesn’t explain the reaction of the Chinese, Russian and Iranian governments.
Maybe we have to accept the Chinese could be in on it? Maybe the Iranians also? Russia hasn’t claimed to have many cases, but maybe it too is in on it, or maybe it’s simply being cautious. A fake virus can become a real virus whenever the psyoppers choose.
I figure we’re heading towards a global economic meltdown where the privileged in every nation will be looking out for themselves. Elites in China, Russia etc. will be looking out for themselves too.
The mayor of Hainan had 13.5 tonnes of Gold buried in his garden …
Surely with reason.
Wise comment, GeorgeMC 🙂
Brilliant find, plus thinking on own feet!
Caught this Wiki editor in the act of deceiving.
— maybe they’re just idiots. there’s no proof that they’re not mathematically illiterate. otherwise, they would realize that gross errors like this would only deceive other idiots.
Milosevic making excuses …
How very strange.
This begs questionS ! Or was this just pathetic sarcasm … ?
spit it out ! Over to you … 🙂
Idiots like milosevic, who frequents Wikipedia, often citing them ?
Do ‘Carry on …’
Return to your CIA masters. Tell them that you have failed.
The only person who has failed, is you, milosevic
and your strict avoidance of answering ANY fuckin’ question honestly,
is a dead give away: Fakery through and through, pseudo-dissension 🙂
Unlike you, I have no masters: & never will !
One of the most liberating things that can happen to mankind,
is to lose all fear of death: the freedom to say what you want,
to whom the fuck you want: milosevic has never and will likely never
be man enough to recognise this, until too late for your soul, to redeem recovery.
Grow up, son: you fucked with the wrong MAN and for me, every childish outburst or copy/paste of your ‘punchlines’ >>> is a pleasure,
watching you squirm, (you complete tosser, repetition rules eheheh) 🙂 bring it on:
What milosevic has to say is a big fat zero, in comparison to my experience,
having witnessed genocide, twice, once on the Balkans and once in Sri Lanka,
who’d fuck are you, milosevic, he who knows nothing and lives in the cyber world,
jacking off about the CIA (yawn, you wimp)… Tim, having worked parallel with CIA Agents & Navy seals clearly knows what he’s talking about,
just like Bill Binney, [email protected] 🙂
Define “Parallel Platform”: (if you dare … ! ?)
If you cannot answer this question, you are pseudo-milo. ! ! !
Tim, having worked parallel with CIA Agents & Navy seals
with friends like that, why do you visit dissident forums like this?
has it eluded your notice that WE DON’T LIKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU?
“Coming next in my bid to write about nothing but COVID19 for the rest of my life…”
Anticipating COVID19? Never. If that nasty ol’ virus come near you just hiss at it and it all run away.
I was “thrashing” around on the Russian Wikipedia site and ran this through Yandex translation. The numbers are a lot closer to the original on English Wiki. Too bad translating is so labour intensive. Must learn Russian!
From Russian Wiki
Spanish flu or “Spanish flu” (FR. La Grippe Espagnole (Spanish: La Pesadilla) was probably the most widespread flu pandemic in the history of mankind in absolute numbers, both in terms of the number of infected and dead. In 1918-1919 (18 months), approximately 550 million people, or 29.5% of the world’s population, were infected with Spanish flu worldwide. Approximately 50-100 million people died, or 2.7-5.3 % of the World’s population, which makes this epidemic one of the largest catastrophes in the history of mankind. Thus, the mortality rate among those infected was 10-20 %. The epidemic began in the last months of the First world war and quickly bypassed this largest armed conflict at that time in terms of casualties. It is believed that the development of the pandemic was facilitated by the hardships of war – unsanitary conditions, poor nutrition, overcrowding of military and refugee camps.
A couple days old but still a pretty good experts documentary on RT which makes more sense than most msm summarised here
Note that the article includes a link to the video I posted several times on the other Covid-19-related threads, the one with the interview of top Russian Virologist Dmitry Lvov.
They must have been tutored by Biden’s math teacher. I mean did you know according to Joe Einstein that 150 Million Americans have died from gun violence since 2007?
From what I understand the Spanish Flue epidemic killed 20 million people out of a world population of close to 2 billion. That’s about 1% of the population . Yet according to Mann and other archeologists the virgin soil soil epidemics that raged through the Americas after Columbus thought he “discovered” India killed up the 75% of the population. The Black or Bubonic Plague killed two thirds of the population of Europe.
True it eclipsed the total death toll of WW I but it seems death tolls from state terrorism which is what war is exceeded that in WW II and still continues to be the number one killer. Let’s gain some perspective on what the biggest mass murderer is in the 20th and 21st Century and it ain’t the Coronavirus.
Also there is another factor and that it seems likely the virus was genetically engineered by the psychotic Malthusian choir who wants to depopulate the planet so they can live in the lap of luxury over every body else’s dead bodies using the fraudulent “science” of Eugenics which means it’ll probably be a flop as a killer virus leaving them only with the fear option. One that they same to be using. To quote FDR:
“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
You don’t “engineer” a deadly disease without making a cure, or it might come back and bite you. The case of Covid19, “engineered” in China (?) that seems to have a taste for aged northern Italians strikes me as too bizarre even for the Chinese or Americans.
A Russian at the US CDC points out that there are about 40 coronaviruses and this is just the latest. They mutate. So it will probably, like all good germs, kill off the already dying then die out itself.
However it can’t be blamed for Boeing crashes, Dow declines, low interest rates, and the imminent recession. That was “engineered”.
“You don’t “engineer” a deadly disease without making a cure, or it might come back and bite you.”
I have a idea. Let’s make a chlorophyll fusion weapon which, by my calculations, should have 274.234 times the chutzpah of a hydrogen fusion weapon and need only about $2.5 million in R&D plus $1.7 million in high precision engineering to develop. Obviously, we need to build a containment device as well, to prevent any disasters should the thing go wacko during transport to the test site. If we’re all agreed, Maureen and I can stay on tonight and do the prototype. She’s pretty good at soldering, so she can get on with the high precision engineerjng while I crunch the problems arising therefrom on my Dell. That should take us until about 6 a.m., when we can move on to the containment device and have it ready for start of work at 8 a.m tomorrow when y’all can help us load it onto the semi. Trust me, I’ve never done chlorophyll fusion before, but I know how to organize, schedule and complete big projects and, as I’ve already said, Maureen is a dab hand at soldering.
It can’t be blamed for the imminent recession which had already been confirmed before the outbreak but it makes a wonderful cover story. It might even get the banksters some bail out money to boot.
I guarantee that millions will be out on the streets of Italy and France, to protest against the lock-down of the entire country of Italy.
The mushrooms in the West won’t be told anything about this.
It remains to be seen if this web site reports it.
millions are not out in our streets, only some panic stricken cretins rushing to the supermarkets. Supermarkets will be open during the week with controlled entry, these new regulations are being abided by, otherwise there are fines.
Excellent work Catte – especially the edits beginning in December! Is that a smoking gun?
Anyway if the Soanish Flu was a pandemic , and it is being claimed it is not far off to n-Cov19, then surely it is also one.
So why hasn’t the WHO classed it as a pandemic?
Anyway 3 shops round my way have no paracetamol. Aldi was doing a brisk trade in everything for a monday lunchtime and the 3 pubs nearest are pretty empty.
I guess having spent all their March wages on loo rolls and fray bentos and noodles they must be skint and self isolating from the air.
In the meantime the financial asset bubble has popped as expected! The poor buggers investing into the stockmarket with their pension funds are doing so into a melting market – savings? Burning cash more like.
I have been saying for months this was coming- and for the moneymen Covid is a godsend ‘blackswam’ to cover their latest heist.
“Aldi was doing a brisk trade in everything for a monday lunchtime and the 3 pubs nearest are pretty empty.”
If we leave the shopping until about 10 we should finish by the time the sun is over the yardarm and be able call in to have a few relatively safe snifters before jumping in the Jag and heading home for a bit of selves-isolation.
Eleanor McBean studied the Spanish ‘Flu in 1976. Her work is not so easy to find now, but she warns us that it wasn’t so much the ‘Flu that was deadly, as the multiple hastily concocted vaccines that were distributed during the pandemic:
How long now in 2020 before a mandatory novel vaccine is presented to us ?
Trickapedia or Sickapedia?
“Who controls the past …….” – George Orwell
For what it’s worth :
IMHO, the 20-50 million figure you often see quoted is vastly exaggerated, especially at the top end, and the 100 million figure sometimes seen is a wild guess.
The paper above (2009) suggests a more modest figure and roughly ties in with per country figures I have seen by recent searching (not from Wikipedia).
FFs Catte, not the Council for Foreign Relations (CFR) or Case fertility &/or Fatality Rate, please, I only just had dinner & I can’t take anymore …
“Nobody expects the Spanish Flu Inquisition.” 🙂
I hear you … 😉
Will no one rid us of this meddlesome troll?
The only person who has found me meddlesome is you, milosevic and it was/is a situation entirely of
YOUR OWN MAKING !
Fuck with me, by making wholly false accusations with added insults and I’ll make endless points fucking with you and your projection & transference away from YOUR ROLE as SHILL & pseudo-dissident:- a shill that is incapable of ever answering any question coherently or with any sense of intellectual commitment, but loves to hurl Ad-hom. like ‘reinertorheit’ used to do, in an effort to devalue & degenerate this OffG comments section.
Milosevic could always come down to the Balkans and face me directly and verify my location, CV and wide variety of certifications and try and rid ‘us’ himself …
come on down, you armchair warrior, move your arse & verify FACTS !
I’ll provide you with accommodation, F>O>C>, but not sustenance,
coz’ life, food & beer is cheap down here, under
iFUKUS NATO control …
Like the weather !
— disinfo shill admits to being a NATO operative.
Are you sure you’re doing this right?