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The Propaganda of Terror and Fear: A Lesson from Recent History

Dr Piers Robinson, Co-Director Organisation for Propaganda Studies

President George W. Bush signs the PATRIOT Act into law, October 26th 2001

The ongoing and unfolding reactions to the Corona Virus look set to have wide-ranging and long-lasting effect on politics, society and economics. The drive to close down all activities is extraordinary as are the measures being promoted to isolate people from each other.

The deep-rooted fear of contagious disease, hardwired into the collective consciousness by historical events such as the ‘Black/Bubonic Plague’ and maintained through popular culture (e.g. the Hollywood movies Outbreak and Contagion), means that people are without question highly susceptible to accepting extreme emergency measures whether or not such measures are rational or justified. The New York Times called for America to be put on a war footing in order to deal with Corona whilst former Army General Stanley McChrystal has been invoking his 9/11 experience in order to prescribe lessons for today’s leaders.

At the same time, political actors are fully aware that these conditions of fear and panic provide a critical opportunity that can be exploited in order to pursue political, economic and societal objectives. It is very likely, however, that the dangers posed by the potential exploitation of Corona for broader political, economic and societal objectives latter far outweigh the immediate threat to life and health from the virus. A lesson from recent history is instructive here.

9/11 and the global ‘War on terror’

The events of September 11 2001 represent a key moment in contemporary history. The destruction of three skyscrapers in New York after the impact of two airliners and an attack on the Pentagon, killing around 3000 civilians, shocked both American and global publics. The horror of seeing aircraft being flown into buildings, followed by the total destruction of three high rise buildings within a matter of seconds, and the spectre of a shadowy band of Islamic fundamentalists (Al Qaeda) having pulled off such devastating attacks, gripped the imagination of many in the Western world.

It was in this climate of paranoia and fear that extraordinary policies were implemented. The USA Patriot Act led to significant civil liberty restrictions whilst the mass surveillance of the digital environment became normalized.

In the United States torture was authorized in the name of preventing terrorism whilst the Guantanamo Bay facility in Cuba became a site in which accused individuals have been held without any adequate legal protection or due process.

Remarkably, the individual accused of leading the alleged 9/11 plot, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who ‘confessed’ to CIA interrogators after being ‘waterboarded’ 183 times, has recently received his trial date, set for January 11 2021 and 20 years after 9/11. Civil liberty restrictions, mass surveillance and torture were only a sub-strand of the major war-fighting-policy that was enabled by 9/11.

Presented at the time as America’s ‘New Pearl Harbour’, 9/11 provided the conditions for a series of major regime-change wars which persist until today.

Critically, these wars have not been primarily about combatting ‘Islamic fundamentalist terrorism’/Al Qaeda, but rather attacking ‘enemy’ states. Indeed, the evidence that the 9/11 event and the alleged threat of ‘Islamic fundamentalist’ was then exploited in order to pursue a geo-politically motivated set of regime-change wars which had little connection to the purported Al Qaeda threat is well established.

Former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, Wesley Clark, famously went public in 2006/7 stating that immediately after 9/11 he had been informed that the US was intending to attack seven countries within five years including Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan and Iran. Clark stated:

He [the Joint Staff officer] picked up a piece of paper, he said I just got this down from upstairs, from the Secretary of Defence’s office today, and he said this is a memo that describes how we are gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off Iran.

Clark’s claims have recently been corroborated by retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (chief of staff to Colin Powell and Iraq War planner) who stated that he had actually seen the same plans Clark was referring to many months prior to 9/11:

My first briefing in the Pentagon from an Air Force three-star general in February of 2001 I almost fell of my chair because their briefing included on the one hand the Air Force’s ability to take out 80 to 90% of the targets in North Korea in the first few hours of an aerial strike on that country to hey when we do Iraq we’re gonna do Syria and Lebanon and we’re going to do Iran and maybe Egypt … but this was more than that [just contingency planning] Wes Clark is right they had these plans they were going to go right through all these countries that they felt threatened Israel all through those countries that they felt threatened 25-30% of the world’s oil passing through the Strait of Hormuz.

Documentary evidence for these claims has come by way of the UK Chilcot Inquiry into the 2003 Iraq War. For example, a report quoted a British embassy cable, dated 15 September 2001, explained that ‘[t]he “regime-change hawks” in Washington are arguing that a coalition put together for one purpose [against international terrorism] could be used to clear up other problems in the region.’ Another document released by Chilcot shows British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush discussing phases one and two of the ‘war on terror’ and when to hit particular countries. Blair writes:

If toppling Saddam is a prime objective, it is far easier to do it with Syria and Iran in favour or acquiescing rather than hitting all three at once.

The regime-change wars that have flowed directly and indirectly from 9/11 continue to this day. War and conflict continues in Afghanistan and Iraq whilst the nine-year-long war in Syria has borne witness to extensive and illegal policies pursued by Western governments including the funding and arming of extremist groups coupled with support for groups actually aligned with Al Qaeda. Iran continues to be subjected to US hybrid warfare tactics including sanctions and covert operations whilst the threat of military action is very clear and present.

The human cost of these wars, built upon the ruthless exploitation of public fear of terrorism in order to pursue multiple ‘regime-change’ wars, has been huge. According to the Brown University ‘Costs of War Project’, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have killed a combined 480,000 to 507,000 civilians, coalition military members, and foreign fighters, with an untold number having been maimed and disfigured. IPPNW estimated that the first ten years of the ‘war on terror’ in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan killed 1.3 million people.

Since 2011, in Syria alone, over 400,000 people have died as a result of war. The numbers of people displaced as a result of these conflicts are also extremely high; wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Syria have wrought a combined 9.39 million refugees, 10.78 million internally displaced peoples, and 830,000 asylum seekers. In addition, there are persisting and very serious concerns with respect to the possible involvement of state actors with the event of 9/11.

Recent and critical developments regarding the events of 9/11 include the publication this week of the University of Alaska study of the WTC7 Collapse which confirms that the official US government investigation was wrong if not plain fraudulent. Other important developments include publication last year of the 9/11 Consensus Panel evidence and increasing scrutiny of the official narrative from mainstream academics.

Overall, the 9/11 global ‘war on terror’ is increasingly coming to be understood particularly across the world as, first and foremost, a remarkable propaganda campaign designed to enable violent conflict in the international system and with its effects and objectives being far wider and deeper than had been suggested by official narratives regarding the need to combat Al Qaeda.

Corona Virus: A New 9/11?

The lesson of 9/11 is that major events can become what scholar Peter Dale Scott describes as deep events which are exploited by political actors in order to precipitate and manage major political, economic and social shifts. 9/11 became, in effect, the deep event that enabled 20 years of unfettered Western warfare abroad and severe civil liberty restrictions and extensive surveillance at home.

At the time of 9/11 many people in the West were terrified of terrorism. Public opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan (the first regime war to flow within months of 9/11) was almost impossible without being accused of being reckless in the ‘fight against terrorism’ or of being an ‘Al Qaeda’ sympathizer. Muslims throughout the West were widely despised. US President George Bush declared that ‘you are either with us or against us’. The parallels with what is happening today are obvious.

Is the Corona Virus a new 9/11, a new deep event? We cannot yet be sure, as of this writing. Perhaps the current strategy of suspending basic liberties will work to effectively eliminate all threats posed by the virus. Governments will then restore the civil liberties currently being suspended and all will fairly quickly return to the way things were before. Perhaps the economy will confidently weather the fallout from the ‘lockdowns’ and everything will return to business as usual.

And perhaps a sober ‘lessons learned’ review will lead to public health officials developing reasonable and balanced plans, such as developing sufficient capacity for rapid testing and tracing, which can be deployed the next time a sufficiently dangerous virus starts to spread thus avoiding terrifying publics and implementing draconian measures that inflict significant damage to the social and economic fabric of society.

Or perhaps not. It may be that, as British journalist Peter Hitchens has been warning, the loss of liberty and basic rights will continue indefinitely as governments greedily hold on to their increased powers of control over their citizenry.

Similarly, Italian journalist Stefania Maurizi has warned about the risks in Italy of state authorities, hostile to open societies and the political left, exploiting Corona in order to increase their control.

An obvious concern here is whether there will be a permanent impact on mass gatherings and protests. James Corbett warns of a permanent state of ‘medical martial law’ and there is certainly the very real possibility of the normalization of government-imposed quarantine and other freedom of movement restrictions.

Margaret Kimberley of the US-based Black Agenda Report warns that Corona may be used as a way of covering up both economic crisis and collapse. She notes that the Federal Reserve ‘recently threw Wall Street a $1.5 trillion lifeline which only kicked the can down the road. The can has been kicked ever since the Great Recession of 2008’. The likely destruction of small businesses might allow for ever greater corporate choke-hold on the economy with more people forced into the corporate workforce.

There is certainly the danger that Corona will be exploited in order to distract from severe economic problems whilst also enabling the pursuit of new economic strategies which worsen rather than mitigate the social inequalities that already tarnish Western countries.

And, of course those actors behind the regime-change wars that flowed from 9/11 may use the Corona Virus to increase pressure on the countries they have been targeting for the last 20 years and those they wish to target in the future.

Already we have seen the regime-change advocate John Bolton blaming China for the Corona Virus whilst the New York Times reported that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien were ‘arguing that tough action while Iran’s leaders were battling the corona virus ravaging the country could finally push then into direct negotiations’.

ABC news report that, despite the Corona Virus, US and UAE troops have held a major military exercise ‘that saw forces seize a sprawling model Mideast city’. It is also worth nothing here the recent US assassination of Iranian General Solemeni and the on-going proxy battles between US forces and Iranian-backed groups in Iraq. The possibility of Corona being exploited in order to further the regime change wars we have seen over the last 20 years is extremely likely and it would be naïve in the extreme to think otherwise.

Whatever the Corona event may or may not be, the fundamental lesson of the last 20 years is that governments can and do exploit, even manipulate, events in order to pursue political, social, military and economic objectives. Fearful populations are frequently irrational ones, vulnerable and malleable. Now is not the time for deference to authority and reluctance to speak out.

It is time for publics to get informed, think calmly and rationally, and to robustly scrutinize and challenge what their governments are doing. The dangers of failing to do this likely far surpass the immediate threat posed by the Corona Virus.

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John Hirko
John Hirko
Mar 30, 2020 10:16 PM

I find it telling that I am not hearing any information concerning the connection between UVB radiation/Vitamin D/Flu Outbreaks from the MSM / Government.
Please review this information and if you find it useful, share it with everyone one you know.

Ask a doctor’s opinion. Have your doctor read this first, then ask their opinion.
Ask your local media and politicians why they are not emphasizing the importance of Vitamin D & the UVB Sunlight connection to fighting COVD19 and other viruses.
Please take your Vitamin D3,………. & C, B2,12, E, Magnesium, Zinc, Omega 3,6 also, but this concerns “D3”
Sunshine is the Best Disinfectant
UVB kills viruses and allows the body to make Vitamin D.
UNDISPUTED FACTS:
• Exposure the UVB radiation from the sun allows the body to produce Vitamin D.
• Vitamin D is essential to the body’s immune system’s ability to fight infections, including viruses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897598/
• During the summer months, ( northern hemisphere) ,due to the tilt of the earth towards the sun,
the highest amount of available UVB radiation reaches the earth’s surface. This is because the higher the sun is overhead (noon), the rays are more direct so the more concentrated the energy over a smaller area. Also, the less air the rays must pass through, thus the less filtration due to less interaction with the molecules in the air. The lowest amount of flu cases are in the summertime.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/UVB/uvb_radiation3.php
comment image
• During the winter months, (norther hemisphere), due to the tilt of the earth away from the sun,
the lowest amount of available UVB radiation reaches the earth’s surface. This is because the lower the sun is overhead (noon), the more oblique the angle, the less concentrated the energy over a larger area. Additionally, the more air the rays must pass through, thus the more filtration due to more interaction with the molecules in the air. The highest amount of flu cases are in the wintertime.
• Many people are Vitamin D deficient, especially in the higher latitudes and especially during the winter months. Thus has been known for a very long time and is the reason why many foods are “fortified with Vitamin D”. https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/nr_ch2b.pdf
The darker your skin, the more sun is required.
In the US, a minimum 40% of whites, 70% of Hispanics and 82% of blacks are Vitamin D deficient.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-vitamin-d-to-take#section2
• Radiation from sunshine is a natural virucide. It kills viruses!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280232/
• Smarter people than I have studied and stressed this. Here is a link to studies some of them have done specific to Europe and the UK. A bit complicated but 5. Conclusion , sums it up quite nicely.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5037520/
• UV radiation is being used to disinfect hospital rooms.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51914722
https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/uv-light-helps-duke-hospitals-fight-transmission-of-superbugs

Two important questions that need to be asked.
1. Question: Why are there no Flu Outbreaks in the summertime? Do virus’s take a vacation?
Answer: The most amount of UVB+ is available from the Sun in the summertime months.
• Viruses do not go away in the summertime, they have a harder time staying active (alive)
and the body’s immune system is better equipped to fight them.
• UVB (Sunlight) enables the human body to produce Vitamin D. Vitamin D boosts the immune system’s ability to fight pathogens, including the COVD19 virus.
• UVB+ (Sunlight) Kills pathogens, including the COVD19 virus.
• Flu Type Viruses are not a problem in Tropical zones where UVB is available all year long.
Most cases of COVD19 in the tropics are from individuals coming in from other areas.

2. Question: Why is the MSM/Government telling people to stay indoors, away from the sunshine and at the same time NOT telling people to take their vitamin D?
Answer: I don’t claim to know why, but It seems they want Power, Profit and Control for Them instead of Truth, Freedom & Health for us. Otherwise why not promote these simple facts stated above.

I suggest you do your own research to answer this question. The truth is out there, I would not depend on the MSM/Government to supply it.

I live in North Carolina and it took me all of 15 minutes to find the following information to connect the dots concerning UVB vs. flu cases in N.C. I am quite confident the MSM/Government know all this, after all this is from their websites.

NOTE: It is difficult to find charts which indicate illness throughout the entire year, however the data I have found indicates illness is below 1%, emphasizing the UVB vitamin D connection.

From the NC Department of Health & Human Services https://flu.ncdhhs.gov/data.htm

From the CDC website. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season.htm

From the National Oceanographic & Atmospheric Administrationcomment image

So how much Vitamin D should one take every day?
If you have adequate UVB sunlight exposure, your body makes all the Vitamin D you need.
The amount of sunlight needed depends on the UVB index due to time of the year, time of the day
and your race, ie. the color of your skin. The darker your skin, the longer exposure is required.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-from-sun#time-of-day

The time generally ranges from around 10-30 minutes at mid-day depending on the above variables.
With these times, it is estimated the body makes the equivalent of taking 10,000-20,000 IU supplemental vitamin D. IU means International Units. The RDA, Recommended Daily Allowance, is 600 IU for children and 800 IU for adults. Studies have shown that taking 1000 to 4000 IU per day supplement is required to maintain optimum blood levels, with 4000 IU the theoretical maximum safe limit. Milk is generally fortified with approximately 100 IU. Personally, I take one 1000 IU supplement, twice a day, or 2000 IU.
I may increase this.

It must be noted that optimum vitamin D blood levels are also required for proper calcium uptake for proper bone formation and many other processes in the body. Vitamin D deficiency has now been linked to breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, heart disease, depression, weight gain, and other maladies.
This article is only concerned with Vitamin D and the immune system, but I want to point out its importance.

It must be noted that the required time for your body to create the needed amount of vitamin D is generally less than the amount of time that it takes to damage the skin, sunburn and cause skin cancer. Also, these times are without sunscreen. Sunscreen greatly reduces vitamin D production.

Interesting that the RDA is 800 IU, less than the minimum required to maintain optimum blood levels.
Additionally, vitamin D requires Cholesterol to perform its functions. So we are NOT being told to take sufficient vitamin D, but are told to lower Cholesterol and stay out of the Sun. These are simplistic statements and I have no medical training, but I am intelligent enough to make a living servicing medical nuclear cameras, we all can read and have access to more information today than ever before.

I will tell you to consult your doctor, and you should, but most of them don’t really know much about nutrition and the immune system. It’s not entirely their fault, as the medical education system is funded by the pharmaceutical industry. Doctors receive as little as 2.8 hours in eight years of their education on nutrition and immune system function. Big pharma is the main funder of medical education, pushes patented drugs as treatments, discourages study of nutrition’s effects on health and the immune system while demonizes anyone that promotes anything to the contrary.
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/food/articles/2016-12-07/how-much-do-doctors-learn-about-nutrition
I suggest you make the best of this time we have been forced to “shelter in place”, shut off the Netflix binge watching and do your own research. I use the maxim of one of my heroes, William Cooper, who would begin his “short wave” radio show, (pre-internet), “ read everything, watch everything, listen to everyone, but believe nothing until you can proof it to yourself.”

One place I have learned a lot of good information on nutrition is Joseph Everett’s “What I’ve Learned” YouTube Channel. I recommend every video Joseph has produced. Support Joseph if you find his information helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqYPhGiB9tkShZorfgcL2lA
Of course, use due diligence, check your facts, but don’t only rely on Google, Wikipedia or so called fact checkers like Snopes.com, they all have their own agendas and algorithms that have been engaged in massive censorship of many points of view and subjects. Use alternate search engines such as GoodGopher, DuckDuckGo and Swiss Cows, and others. Seriously, these are real alternative browsers that have not shown the shadow banning, systematic redirects and outright censoring that Google, Twitter, Facebook and others have been engaged, at least for now.

You may also consider using a VPN, Virtual Private Network. How unfortunate it is, in the land of the free, one should be concerned about one’s browsing history.

I realize I will be demonized as being a “Conspiracy Theorist” for disseminating this information about Sunshine, UVB and Vitamin D, but I ask you, “Where is the Lie”? Put your critical thinking caps on, review the information provided and please tell me where I am wrong.

Please answer the question, if the MSM/ Government is so concerned about our health that they are turning our country into actual prison, WHY isn’t the MSM / Government informing us about the most important , simple and inexpensive way to help protect ourselves from COVID19, Vitamin D? What is their agenda, it obviously isn’t our health.

In these uncertain times and in not so uncertain times, you are the master of your own health. Please take care of yourselves. Without your health, you have nothing. Take control of what you can.

Best regards, be well.

John Hirko
5004 Trent Woods Drive
Trent Woods, NC, 28562
252-649-9910
[email protected]

. Quote to Ponder
“ Let your food by thy medicine,
And your medicine be thy food.”
– Hippocrates
( one of the original doctors)

Steve Culbreth
Steve Culbreth
Mar 31, 2020 7:38 AM
Reply to  John Hirko

Wow, the only thing I could add to that is the importance of hydration.Quality water is rare, the human body requires H2O to function properly. NOT CHLORINE, FLORIDE, CALCIUM CHLORIDE,SODIUM BICARBONATE OR SUGAR or any of the many chemical compounds tainting our drinking water!
Thank You John Hirko for such honest and caring reporting. You are truly a blessing.

John
John
Apr 22, 2020 12:14 AM
Reply to  Steve Culbreth

This is not the only area where what is free and natural, and also naturally enjoyable is disregarded and neglected. Our Western societies are sick and highly artificial, sick morally, mentally and physically.

The question should thus be put more broad, way more broad, why do we have a gigantic money slurping (and money making) pharmaceutical and medical industry, while people are poisoned by the food industry, leading stressful and unhealthy lives, continuously stressed and made fearful by media, in a broadly overstressed and highly over-complicated over-regulated society.
Why are simple and natural solutions overlooked, because of the massive pocket filling on all upper layers, and because of power mongering on the top levels, altogether, because of a grand theater of enormous incompetence, artificiality, pretense, a global Western theater of make belief. A mass system of thievery and power addicts.

This show of pretense, pocket filling and power mongering must go on at al costs, no matter what absurdities added, like in this case. Because it is already absurd, nothing is what is seems to be, nothing.

John
John
Apr 22, 2020 12:40 AM
Reply to  John Hirko

“I realize I will be demonized as being a “Conspiracy Theorist” for disseminating this information about Sunshine, UVB and Vitamin D, but I ask you, “Where is the Lie”? Put your critical thinking caps on, review the information provided and please tell me where I am wrong. ”

Don’t worry, there is no conspiracy of people out on hiding this kind of information, an artificial society, devoid of common sense, not valuing the simple and the natural, making everything over-complex, out on regulating everything (because of power, money and ideological fanaticism) will swing towards neglect of such things automatically.

Plain sunshine doesn’t afford anyone status or money, or power. It also makes people happy and relaxed, that neither contributes to power and control, and neither to wealth. And it is not just a few on top looking for either or all of these, it happens on a very large scale, on many layers.

Carolyn Goyda
Carolyn Goyda
Mar 30, 2020 3:37 PM

Keep your sense of humor 🤗
There will be snitches and stooges 🦠
Weak people love melodrama and direction – know who YOU are 😊
Common sense, fresh air, sunlight, hygiene – love faith and self respect ✊
Courage & resolve vs the totalitarian tiptoe
https://youtu.be/pL-ujPmMefA

Estaugh
Estaugh
Mar 28, 2020 11:46 PM

A blast from the past, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DfG1SNydnc “They got the guns, we got the numbers”

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 10:50 PM
Reply to  Estaugh

Currently, in the US of A, there are far more firearms in private ownership.

Not sure about in Jim’s day … 🙂

Gall
Gall
Mar 28, 2020 11:03 PM

Evidence points to the same “full spectrum dominance” “exceptional” neocon retards who unleashed 9/11 and Amerithrax are involved in unleashing the current epidemic. See Veterans Today:

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/23/precursor-to-cv-19-yes-we-mean-9-11/

Mark
Mark
Mar 28, 2020 10:56 PM

Yes, fear is what we must avoid. Unity and courage is what will save us from any “terrorism” or corporate takeover.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
Mar 28, 2020 10:15 PM

Ironically I hear that ISIS inc have forbidden their ‘ Martyrs ‘ from conducting their terrorist campaigns
because the Corina virus is a Western disease/virus and could harm the explosive vest merchants in the execution of their terrorist activities.

That’ s a bit like the WW1 soldiers in the trenches being warned by the generals that smoking could kill you!

Here’s the problem for myself:

There is no doubt that for some reason Italy – Spain – New York and so on are suffering from an unusual number of deaths.

Over and above ‘ the normal ‘ ( read into that what you like. )

There is no doubt that 40 years plus of Neo – Liberal economic wisdom and actions have led to this pretty pass.

My opinion is that this virus has been carried by the White Well Off Traveller Class ( not the gypsy travellers – the well off – the Deal makers and shakers – maybe on holiday– who knows? ) but here it is.

The well off world has donated it’s Alan Whicker disease to the poor and those who thought they weren’t poor (see Guardian columnists for dteails ) and they don’t like it. In fact it has starightened that Class up.

They thought they were the ” One of them ” that Thatcher talked about and have got a potential tap on the shoulder form the Grim reaper who is at the moment just taking names.

The truth is we all have parents – kids – grandkids – best mates etc who are genuinely touchable by this virus.

So , it’s not surprising that self interest kicks in.

It’s not a ” Me Too ” generalised look at me virtue signalling stance – it’s an “I ” might die internal dialogue.

I genuinely don’t know why the Lombardy Italians are getting in the neck -ditto the Madridian Spanish and I believe that opportunities are being exploited by complete arses of capitalists ( are you surprised? ) but something medically/biologically weird is going on – I have little doubt about that.

To me it has nothing to do with rich people worshipping at the feet of a wooden Owl nor the Oak table of the Bildeberg Group and the people around it I just think that Capitalism in its Neo Liberal form hit the rocks ten years ago and should have died like Dracula exposed to sunlight right there and then.

But it didn’t and has limped on and all that has happened is that Mother Nature has fired a test rocket at us all in the West and found us all wanting.

the most frightening thing is that this relatively weak salvo from our Mother is nothing to what is to come vis Climate Change.

While we are discussing what to do about that ( whether true or false – we never know until it’s happened ) no doubt Lockdowns to protect water supplies will occur between States?

It happened in Australia a while ago.

No water – no life.

Steve
Steve
Mar 29, 2020 9:31 AM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

‘Climate change, whether true or false – we never know until it’s happened ‘. But some subjects are relatively easy to get to the truth of. There’s always experts in their their chosen field who remain uncompromised by overbearing or corrupt institutions. See people like William Happer and Peter Ridd.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Mar 30, 2020 2:52 PM
Reply to  Steve

Or the late Freeman Dyson. Just been watching an old video lecture of his (which did not touch on Climate Change at all, as it happens). What a wise, charming, modest, and amusing man he was.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 3:55 AM
Reply to  Steve

Two absolute renegades, denounced by all their colleagues, numbering the thousands, and with no expertise in the fields on which they pontificate and disinform. Why do you choose outsiders with NO credibility over thousands of scientists with the facts on their side. Ridd looks even more odious as the Great Barrier Reef bleaches for the third time in five years, having not bleached for at least 800 years (coral cores) before 1998.

Luca Pontone
Luca Pontone
Mar 31, 2020 6:47 PM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

It’s been delivered by the Chinese they have many million and billion aires compared to the us and eu. We are now the dwarf continent. They are the future we are the past. We will never compete they have far too large a population, and a far more wealthier population than the rest of the world. While the west has a rich 1 percent China have a rich 10 percent. Let that sink in on there numbers alone.

Rachel Wild
Rachel Wild
Mar 28, 2020 9:26 PM

If people don’t wake up now it’s game over… this is a must read…
“The most distrusted industry in America, known for it’s profligate profiteering at the cost of people’s lives… EU to probe pharma over “false pandemic”… https://www.wilddigital.co.uk/covid-19-crash/

NIKA
NIKA
Apr 1, 2020 3:55 PM
Reply to  Rachel Wild

So rejecting capitalism, corrupted by International Marxists, you want to introduce Universal Law, invented by…International Marxists.

NO, THANKS.

Rachel
Rachel
Apr 1, 2020 5:54 PM
Reply to  NIKA

Universal Law is the spiritual understanding of how the Universe works and is nothing to do with politics or economics…

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:05 PM

I’ve heard often times from the alt media that more and more people are “waking up”. That was before the coronavirus. Maybe finally this will make them “wake up” to the grim reality.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Mar 28, 2020 8:59 PM

Coronavirus the new 9/11 nothing more needs to be said.

Words Meaning
Words Meaning
Mar 29, 2020 4:43 AM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

“nothing more needs to be said.”

Do words matter?!

The commenter probably doesn’t mean it this way, but this expression is: Counterproductive, lazy, disrespectful and irresponsible. It makes no sense on a discussion board.

Time to ditch ‘traditional’ expressions that may hinder our ability to effect a change!

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:18 PM
Reply to  Words Meaning

It was me, that downvoted you 🙂

Until YOU are prepared to discuss WTC7 SCIENTIFICALLY, you, like everybody else, are just wasting my fucking time and everybody elses’!

Get it ? ! ENDLICH ??? It’s the same fucking people behind it all & in China, TODAY …
China, where the Rothschilds transferred their shipping business to, from the World Trade Centre, precisely two weeks before their ‘Hit’ on the WTC Complex !
WORDS MEANING WTF ?
Clearly your words don’t matter . . .

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 7:58 PM

This is complete and utter bollocks…

Covid-19 patients in UK intensive care have 50% survival rate

Not backed-up by any medical facts, and in the UK where medical stats are now showing a major downturn in the Frankenstein flu.

If anything, this crisis is going to be the end of the presstitutes.

Although that probably won’t make a blind bit of difference, because the psychopaths who rule us are now pulling down the veil on all civil liberties.

The USA will be the first to descend into total anarchy, because it’s always been a nut job of a nation. The UK won’t be far behind, and then the rest of Europe, although we will have to see how that pans out.

We live in interesting times…

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 9:05 PM
Reply to  RobG

I agree with you Rob… What good is a prostitute if you have to stay 2 metres away…? “Oh, read me some poetry, lovey”…

Collateral damage, I guess…

But then you called my homeland “a nut job of a nation”…

How dare you go so easy on us…??

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 10:07 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Steve, I’ll clarify by saying that I don’t mean the American people, I mean the American government, who are corrupt beyond belief.

I’ve lived and worked in America (prior to 9/11), in the San Francisco area, and I’ve travelled all over North America from the southern states up to New York and all the way to Alaska.

Just about every American I met was kind and welcoming.

It’s not American citizens that are the problem.

It’s the American government that is perhaps the problem?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 11:25 PM
Reply to  RobG

I appreciate the clarification, Rob, as I was just having some fun with you…

I too have lived and worked in the SF Bay area (San Mateo, 1978-1990), one of my all-time favorite places to live and play…

And we both agree as to the source of the problem…

Kathy
Kathy
Mar 29, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

I saw the headline 50 percent survival rate and I wondered, Being as we are talking intensive care. At what percent would be normal survival rate of patients in intensive care without a Covid 19 prefix. The problem is that all information is questionable if it is not put into any verifiable context.

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Mar 29, 2020 4:37 AM
Reply to  RobG

The end of the presstitutes (and, by implication, the rise of real journalism)? Now, wouldn’t that make the world a better place!

Magggie
Magggie
Mar 28, 2020 7:19 PM

I’ll say one word, “Contagion.”

Art mimicking life, or life mimicking art?

Predictive Programming, no more no less.

I recorded this film last week and decided to watch it tonight. Can’t wait to see how it ends……….

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:44 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Thumbs up, but without wanting to sound conspiratorial, I tend to think of Hollywood these days as an arm of the US Deep State. (If I am wrong please correct.) I consider it’s output today to be American propaganda.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 7:51 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

http://www.spyculture.com

Tom Secker has masses of material exploring the collaboration between Hollywood and theDeep State.

Fantastic work!

Arby
Arby
Mar 28, 2020 7:54 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Tom Secker is an awful person. Read his article (on his website) attacking Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett. I’m sorry to see other ‘progressive’ sites pick up his work. (The Greanville Post, Mint Press News) He also came after me for defending Bartlett and Beeley.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Arby

Yes – true, I had forgotten about that. Thanks!

What do you think of his work though on Hollywood?

He also laid into Dave McGowan one time – who did really good work.

Maybe I’ll have to take another look at him and maybe reconsider recommending him.

Arby
Arby
Mar 29, 2020 7:54 AM
Reply to  clickkid

His book with co-author Matthew Alford (who I also had words with, but not on the same hostile level as with Secker) may or not be good. I was initially interested, mainly because, unlike, say Tricia Jenkins’s book about the CIA in Hollywood, which I’ve read, they added in the influence of the NSA on Hollywood. But I am so put off by Secker that I decided that I can live without it. (You can read our back and forth on my website. The article is titled “Tom Secker, The Professional Scam Artist”) And really, There’s been lots of books written about the Hollywood/military/intelligence-complex if I ever find the time to read up on that stuff again. I only need to revisit the bibliography of Jenkins’s in order to find some.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 29, 2020 10:04 AM
Reply to  Arby

I should’ve just asked you outright for your blog name, but just refound it again after typing in the Tom Selleck article, thanks.
I’ve seen other articles about the Hollywood – MIC connection, and havn’t watched any big budget ‘film’ or TV series produced there for years.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 29, 2020 9:54 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

Correct John regards Hollywood. They’re basically a propaganda unit of the Pentagon and State Dept. I boycott Hollywood ‘films’ just like I boycott MSM. All part of the same Octopus.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 8:43 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Also watch 12 Monkeys (1995), brilliant movie by Terry Gilliam. (Although not everybody might like his style, I personally think he’s one of the all time great movie directors.)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:16 AM
Reply to  fred

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:28 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Good god, you really are into all this Hollywood shit, it seems 🙂

I distanced myself finally categorically from any further Hollywood ‘crapola’, the day the towers came down.

Why do you not only persist in watching, but advertise Brainwashing ?
Do you still have TV, too ?

Willem
Willem
Mar 28, 2020 7:09 PM

Some facts from the hospital where I work as epidemiologist with an interpretation.

1. Where last week the COVID PCR test was positive in about 10% of cases, that is now 20%. Interpretation: there is definitely something in the air and it is infecting people
2. The triage system in my hospital (that follows national guidelines) is very strict: pcr testing is only done in the most sick people. All the rest of symptomatic patients are sent home with a clinical diagnosis of Covid and need to self-isolate. Please note that for the case-fatality rates only people who are inside the hospital are counted, not those (who are likely to be alive an well) outside the hospital. Those who are immediately discharged with a clinical diagnosis are also no longer counted. So only the most sick who need to be hospitalized are counted in terms of whether they die in hospital. This explains the high case-fatality rate: they are already sick and die, or they get better (and discharged) after which they are no longer counted.
3. People who are tested Covid 19 negative, but need to be admitted because they are very ill are sometimes still counted as positive as the doctors fear transmission of Covid 19 in the hospital and therefore isolate these patients as Covid positive. That further inflates the CFR as the most sick (yet truly Covid negative patients) are counted as positive and have a high risk to die
4. There are however true cases of Covid-19, that is that they have different symptoms as compared with flu (dry cough and fever for covid19 vs myalgia and fever for flu) and who get severely ill. However, I only see the end of the line in the hospital and therefore do not know if the death rate of all people who get ‘Covid 19’ (as the term is) is different from flu or other coronaviruses (currently nobody knows)
5. I do not know if the quarantine measures work. If you look at Italy, I would say they don’t work. As an individual I don’t mind much though. Empty streets and no traffic are perfect for strolls and no traffic jams is nice for a change. Since my days are currently filled with work, I don’t see much of what craziness is going on in supermarkets. And friends, well… I don’t see them much either. They whatsapp, but I don’t follow their discussions too much (on average, they are scared and angry which don’t make them good companions to talk with, yet they are my friends who act as if they are hypnotized)
6. As an epidemiologist there is an intellectual reward of finding out what is going on in terms of this disease and its implications. But it is not only intellectual as the implications of all this include loneliness- depression- extreme fear of death-, fear of socializing by (it seems) an increasing part of society and the lust to believe in ‘authority’ and charismatic spokesmen (politicians) if only that can take the fear away. The crashed economy is also going to have implications for us all (or already have implications for some). It is the latter part (the implications) that scares many (but not all) in my profession to actually do something. In times when epidemiologists can make a difference, simply by counting and by making good (unbiased) judgments of that what is counted, it pains me to notice that many of my colleagues shy away as they are either to scared of this infectious disease and self-isolate (they shouldn’t be scared if they would have looked at the actual data instead of following the media), or pretend not to to live in a new society with all the things I noted above, but prefer to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that they can continue, as always, with things that are only of academic interest.

We live in interesting times. Not sure how this is going to end. But one could at least try to make it end as good as possible. Which I try by simply counting. And sometimes try by blowing of steam, as I just did here..

TheThinker
TheThinker
Mar 28, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  Willem

Willem, thank you for your update. It’s helpful to hear whats going on in such a measured manner from your perspective. Keep blowing off steam, I think that’s going to get a lot of people through, however we think this might end. Best wishes.

jim
jim
Mar 28, 2020 8:50 PM
Reply to  Willem

1. Where last week the COVID PCR test was positive in about 10% of cases, that is now 20%. Interpretation: there is definitely something in the air and it is infecting people

Why would it go up? Did the virus change? Did the test change? Or is this just fear mongering?

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 8:56 PM
Reply to  Willem

Willem

Interesting and illuminating frontline analysis, thanks.

With regard to point 1. Is it possible that this doubling of positive test cases might simply be that the triage staff (your point2) are being more selective, through knowledge and experience, about who they are submitting for testing? If you like, they are now more aware of likely Covid-19 cases from the clinically presented symptoms than they might have been at the outset where they might have adopted a more cautionary approach of testing more people “just to be on the safe side”? i.e. They are getting better at recognising the symptoms?

Willem
Willem
Mar 29, 2020 8:24 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

That is a good alternative explanation. As far as I know the triage system hasn’t changed, but it is becoming pretty clear that people with runny nose are allergic (and don’t need testing), while dry cough and fever is a clear symptom of this virus.

To be perfectly honest with you: you may be right. I need more data to be sure (so back to counting)

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 10:23 PM
Reply to  Willem

You haven’t said what hospital it is that you work in? I appreciate that you might not want to make public your specific work details, but maybe you can give us more regional details of where you are? (Vauxhall?)

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
Mar 28, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  Willem

It will end Willem – the question is is when and how many die or are scarred ( mentally and physically ) by the experience?

Are we post – this virus ( there will be many more as I’m sure you know ) going to build our Brave New World or are we going to submit to the Elites who so far have offered us the World and given us only terrible soil in which to grow it?

The Boy Scouts in the UK used to have a slogan ” Be Prepared! ”

Unfortunately despite the slogan emanating from a Bourgoise Association it stands true.

40 plus years of Neo Liberal capitalism knows bet makes the western World totally un prepared for what might be in store from a vengeful Ecosystem.

I’m not religious at all but the Human race could dis-appear tomorrow and the planet wouldn’t care.

The World would continue to turn and the surviving creatures would carry on as before sans Humans.

For Donald et al – Mother Nature would say – What’s so special about Humans – the Duck Billed Platypus dis- appeareds-and so what?

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:27 AM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

the Duck Billed Platypus disappeared

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 6:55 PM

“The destruction of three skyscrapers in New York after the impact of two airliners…” (emphasis mine.)

…ah yes, the old magic airliner theory…

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:45 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

The destruction of two skyscrapers would never have been predicted, let alone three.

John Milton
John Milton
Mar 28, 2020 8:17 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

Yep. And most of the general public aren’t even aware of the collapse of building 7.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:28 AM
Reply to  John Milton

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 5:46 PM

Travellers who returned from the Jewel cruise ship have been locked up in a Sydney hotel (Swissotel)–by order from the ‘authorities’.

The windows are locked with no fresh air and doors must be left locked when dealing with hotel staff. We’ve been told by health professionals that it is best for those going into isolation to stay in a well ventilated room.

The Australian NSW Premier who is an utterly and certifiably brainless character responded: “It will not be perfect and foolproof .. but we also need to consider the health and safety of eight million residents in NSW. In other words, the ‘authorities’ don’t care that in order to prevent ‘respiratory illnesses, it is OK to create more respiratory problems.

Lack of ventilation reduces the lungs capacity to to function properly and reduces the body’s ability to fend off diseases. But what can you do when POLITICIANS become the medical experts we have to obey?

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:46 PM
Reply to  Rise

“The Australian NSW Premier who is an utterly and certifiably brainless character”

Oh, you have politicians down under as well, I see.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

& thur’ infected: born with 5eyes. 😉

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Mar 28, 2020 5:26 PM

Panic, shock, and anxiety is activated in a number of ways. It doesn’t take a John B. Watson, or a B.F. Skinner to figure out what “emotional buttons” to push to spark nervousness unleashing mass fear. In 2001, the planet was stunned by the SIGHT of passenger jets hitting into the two tallest buildings in the world. If a major monument in the heart of New York City could be decimated then “nothing” was safe.

Mass hysteria commenced, an enemy was found, and the public was told it needed to be protected. Safety could only be accomplished if personal freedoms were vanquished, and if we acquiesced to another war.

A “terrorized population” is told they must fight a “War on Terror.” In actuality, it was a War OF Terror on the world’s population. Even an imaginative, Alfred Hitchcock, in his heyday couldn’t dream-up such a twisted and freakish psychological thriller. But it worked, and here we are two decades later still reeling from its aftershocks….

No creative genius or psychopath worth their salt would imitate a similar scenario. Demented geniuses are well aware there’s little public interest in pursuing the War on Terror, by demolishing another building and crying wolf. It will no longer produce a sufficient level of anguish and panic.

Enter COVID-19, an invisible odorless beast which can’t be aroused by tactile senses. It’s literally and figuratively a “blind faith enemy.” You must believe it will destroy all humanity. It’s an attacker we all
must fight together by self-isolating and scrubbing from our hands. It must be destroyed, before it destroys us. Be aware, be very aware! And so it begins once again……..

As we saw with 9/11 pre-planned events serve multiple purposes. At the end of the day, “mad geniuses” are not simpletons –ONE EVENT is meant to achieve many objectives. They always slaughter numerous birds with one stone–they’re experts who can qualify as Olympian shot putters.

So what objectives are being achieved with this latest MASS PANIC ATTACK, better known as COVID-19. Here’s some speculations:

A worldwide financial collapse was rescued by a virus. In the final analysis, this virus will reshape the
entire economic system. Great wealth will further be consolidated through monopolization intensifying income and wealth inequality. A desperate workforce will become even more compliant.

Surveillance will be heightened and liberties previously taken for granted will be abolished. Banning and censorship will be commonplace. New concepts will be introduced to control, track, and digitalize the entire population.

The US Government, may appear on the surface concerned about China’s hegemony in the “great power competition” but, in reality the Davos clique would be enamored if the entire planet functioned under the same digitized Asian operation. It would be a great relief, for the international gang of self-appointed ghouls, if each person on the planet was digitized, monitored, and controlled. In other words, Earth and its entire population would be viewed as an infinite battlefield…….. When all is said and done, the next new “enemy” could very well be you or me……

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 7:23 PM

“Surveillance will be heightened and liberties previously taken for granted will be abolished. Banning and censorship will be commonplace. New concepts will be introduced to control, track, and digitalize the entire population. “

It’s not censorship it’s ‘internet rationing’:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/large-scale-internet-rationing-possible-experts-warn

…And here’s your prototype social credit score app, courtesy of tech startup Unacast:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/how-governments-are-tracking-social-media-enforce-covid-19-quarantines

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Mar 28, 2020 7:29 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

Yes, all of that and more……You’ll be denied access to the most basic services. You’ll be forever held hostage to their demands……..

lynette chaplin
lynette chaplin
Mar 28, 2020 5:20 PM

I tried to reply to a comment but it didn’t go through. I have also had comments censored, I am so disappointed in off guardian, I am reminded of when the guardian censored my opinions.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 28, 2020 5:31 PM

You said this on 24 March and I reassured you then that none of your comments had been removed/spammed. Still, nothing has been removed/spammed.

We advise people to make copies of longer comments before hitting the submit button because they can go astray, and the risk of that is much higher when we are under DDoS attack – as we were all of Thursday and some of yesterday – because the server may be intermittently cutting out.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 30, 2020 12:09 AM

May I suggest that before you hit the button, ‘Post Comment’, you press “Command C’ as in COPY your words and store them anywhere you like. It’s a really good shortcut & discipline to avoid disappointment @your end and then you can continually re-submit, by pressing ‘Command V’ to paste/replace the missing text …

Having tried & tested the most outlandish/outrageous of comments and having even tried imitating robots, I can honestly say that i have tested these columns & their moderators, like nobody else, (professionally, as a media & research analyst since the 80’s) and from various locations in the world, including China/Hong Kong: in my experience, you have nothing to fear, except yourself >>> so, copy/paste !

Life is so simple, when you understand it fully … and may I add, it was during the testing of this website, that google & yahoo &Co. proved & confirmed to me that they can INTERCEPT anything, anywhere and even interfere with my email: and what OffG received finally, was a blank empty big fat nothing… This was during & subsequent to the Cyber-attack on the Saturday 26th May 2018. If in doubt, check it out: simply copy/paste !

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 30, 2020 3:38 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

Thanks – I think – for game testing our comments section so thoroughly 😉 Your post does make a refreshing change! Everyone is so paranoid atm, but who can blame them right now? Ta, A2

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Apr 1, 2020 7:36 PM
Reply to  Admin2

A genuine pleasure, I assure you: especially, the results 🙂 gave me hope & faith in your public commitments to not censor , even under the constant pressure of cyberattacks, along with various armies of controlled opposition, trolls & shills soiling the comments section, with targeted intentions & self-evident teamwork to ‘Tarnish’ the atmosphere of freedom to comment from the soul,
of so many truly valuable contributors.

I should add, results that confirmed that WordPress were compromised, too and I was so relieved and elated when OffG finally got your own servers, because, though it is highly complicated & expensive legally to proceed against the ‘likes’ of google, yahoo & Co. , it was/is always most important to know your enemy and everything they are capable of doing. . . and I have to admit a certain frustration with OffG’s use of gmail, (in early years), for private communications, which made me really quite suspicious at first, given the 2016 US elections, HRC & her google backers, with Alphabet inc. CEO Eric Schmidt & Sergei Brin on board with their best analytics… even, I became annoyed that OffG could not see the inter-connectivity & inherent dangers for site management >>> that was pretty easy to test, by using private servers from China, (for very targeted emails to OffG), that I would C.C. & B.C.C. to other email addresses, including my own & the wife’s, brothers, friends and vice-versa … the results were really quite stunning and equally outrageous, legally speaking, , logically 😉 but, no worries now, in the sense that that ‘they’ revealed their hand’ and their intentions & actions, which demonstrated to me that, from a private server to another private server, the PTB were more afraid to interfere with private communications on a regular basis, because it would demonstrate a ‘Nachvollziehbar’ / traceable pattern in the ‘cul de sac’ nodes of fibre-optic transmissions, highlighting regular ‘harvest all Data’ actions on their part, something no body wishes to discuss, legally … but, be aware that, just because they backed off, does not mean that the deep state are still not free to intercept anything transmitted over fibre optics,
& far far more, today, as Wikileaks confirmed in their ‘Vault 7’ files…
like, Marble programming.

Moving on, I wanted to say that your personal A2 addition to the moderating team has reaffirmed my belief that OffG still has the most responsible & democratic forum for comments, online & indeed anywhere in the media, Worldwide, so, ‘unbedingt’ take heart daily, in knowing that many of us who comment here appreciate your efforts in a manner that transcends the capitalist financial Bs of the day…

With gratitude,
Tim

P.s. Yesterday, the Bulgarian PM Borisov made the wearing of face-masks in Public OBLIGATORY & the fine is BGN 5,000 (leva) and in contradiction, he also made a law on the 20th April 2016, that concealment of the face in public is illegal. As you can imagine, my best friend & legal advisor & I are laughing & well prepared for a Slavic onslaught of questioning ANY & ALL Authorities, not just nationally …

P.P.s. I left my computer @work, accidentally, due to exhaustion and since then, the Bg. Parliament has rejected the the ‘fine’ proposal … I could explain why, but need I really say more ? ! 🙂 Ask any well intentioned intelligent Slav. !! 😉

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 4:58 PM

What’s been the most heart-breaking about this whole thing is the reaction from 99% of friends and family. I have had two arguments, one with a friend of thirty years and one with a cousin who is more like a brother. Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian. I was a bit like that when I was younger too. Both are totally sold on this and both tried to treat my arguments with ridicule. What was also disturbing was the repetition of the various fear memes going around. One came from my friend “THERE ARE DOCTORS AND PROFESSIONALS DYING ON THE FRONTLINE IN ITALY!!!!” He was totally serious too. When I asked for links to this information the argument then turned to ridicule and total dismissal of my conspiracy theories. A mental lockdown you could say. MY cousin hit me with the “DOCTORS ARE DYING/SUFFERING MELTING DOWN etc IN THE NHS” Again when asked to confirm this with some evidence he turned to the ridicule game. My sister who I had been putting off talking too ended our conversation with “I just hope none of us ends up with puss filled lungs and being unable to breath and then possibly dying” it was very saddening that people I love are going around with fear filled fairy stories manufactured by the 24/7 fear factory. I can’t even go and see my mum! She has been conditioned through the media and family to stay at home, although she at least is still walking the dog. Every time I suggested we come visit she was politely declining. I know if I push it, I will find resistance from my brother and sister.
My partner and little girl of 3 live right on Sefton Park in Liverpool. We moved to our house to be by the park and also enjoy other local woods. That is our main source of fun and recreation. We don’t watch TV or egad news radio etc, really gave up with that especially noticing the effect it was having on our little girl. (we were only giving her 30 minutes to 1-hour bursts of vetted shows but noticed that it was having a detrimental effect on her imagination).
So we have been spending a lot of time ignoring the warnings to stay in and really loving the weather and witnessing the waking of nature which has been very beautiful. As the week has progressed the atmosphere and reaction from other people has rapidly deteriorated. People pulling their kids away from our little girl. People seriously walking around you as you walk past.
I had a stoned paranoid vison of the future in the festival gardens the other day. A children’s play area had been taped up like some crime scene with city watch tape and a Crime stoppers number. It was like something from a Chris Morris sketch. What wasn’t so funny was a woman staring at us with such weirdness and what felt like hatred. I was so freaked out I asked her if she was ok, which she replied in a real monotone “I’m fine thank you” she was anything but. I had a paranoid train of thought of her calling the police and reporting us it was bizarre.
We went on the train yesterday with our bikes to go to the beach and were looked at with such hatred by the Mersey rail security on the train, who if they had the power would have been right in our faces. As we got off the train a lady working for the NHS was shouting “people are not keeping the correct distance” and promptly went to complain to the Ticket guy. Totally surreal. Although to provide some balance we have also met other families not buying into it and were happy for our little girl to play with their kids. It’s bizarre how things have changed each day. I have been literally coming back to Off Guardian daily to realign within myself with what is really going on. I have been reading Off Guardian since I found a link in the comments from the Guardian when I noticed what was happening with the Corbyn smears during his first leadership bid in 2015. Thank you Off Guardian for keeping me sane!!

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:24 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Very disturbing that you mention seeing a childrens’ play area bound up in crime scene tape…

Just yesterday I believe there was a California post about a visit to a long-familiar childrens’ playground, only now the attractions were all off-limits, wrapped in yellow crime scene tape…

😥… I got no words…

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 5:52 PM
Reply to  DavidW

David

You are so right and this is happening every minute of the day up and down the country. I ask myself how long will it take, if indeed this is ever over, for young impressionable children to realise that not everyone is a threat to their life. I was approaching a mother with three children on my (now, not so…) regular dog walk a couple of days ago and she said to one of the children who had dared to wander across the wide pathway “Come here, don’t go near that lady” or words to that effect. At this the child replied “Why not?” The mother’s semi-whispered response (and I do acknowledge it probably avoided the need to give too much scientific explanation to a seven year old!) was “She might have coronavirus”! How long will it be before children are abusing older people because they’ve been told that old people have to be avoided because they’re ‘unclean’?

Another mother and two children (10 or 11 years old maybe) were walking towards me and suddenly veered off down a passageway towards home. I thought “Fair enough, that’s probably their normal way home” but heard one of the children say ” Mum, why are we going this away? We don’t normally”! Maybe it was because she didn’t want to give me ‘coronavirus’ but I wonder what she tells the children.

Social distancing has led to people losing the power of speech. Where I live (the north west, like you) it was the norm until about 10 days ago to pass the time of day with people you passed, even strangers, especially fellow dog walkers. Now most people look down at their feet, lips tightly sealed and scuttle past. They don’t even empathise with each other and say “God this is strange isn’t it? Wonder when we’ll all get back to normal” etc. You might say it’s as if they have already readily accepted it as the new ‘normal’. And how long will it be before we are told how we should pass by one another (You must “Keep to the left!” “If there is a passing point make sure the person on the same side as it makes use of it” “Follow the arrows on the pavement” etc etc)

As a dog owner I was talking to a dog owner neighbour today (6 ft apart of course) who has a German Shepherd puppy of about 11 weeks of age. I couldn’t reach the puppy to stroke her and the owner was saying that she hasn’t been able to take the pup to classes to learn how to get on with people and other dogs as the classes have been stopped. As dog owners will know it is essential to socialise dogs before they reach about 16 weeks of age as after that they don’t learn the art of good behaviour with people or other dogs. So she was very worried about the long-term impact of this isolation on the dog’s psychological development.

I passed a group of two couples who knew each other but had just crossed paths in the street. They were all ‘obeying’ social distancing as they chatted but they were looking around furtively and clearly ill at ease in case someone reported them for having an unacceptable size of group. The Government is probably worried that the word might spread that it is all nonsense and there might be rebellion if they allow people to talk about it.

So, yes, on this website you are certainly in about the only remaining domain for dissenting ‘Group think’. 😀

[typo fixed. A2]

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 8:31 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Hi Judy,

I really do hope that this is a short term situation. As you say If this continues the damage it could do to young children is truly frightening never mind the rest of the adult population.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Mar 29, 2020 2:43 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Talking of 6 feet, a lot of people clearly don’t know what 6 feet or 2 metres looks like. In the queue for my local Waitrose, people are standing 3 or 4 metres or more.

Reminds me of a joke (told in my presence by a woman):

“Why can’t a woman park a car?”
“Because for years and years and years, they’ve been told by men that this is 6 inches”.
(holds up thumb and finger about an inch and a half apart).

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 29, 2020 5:34 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

😀

Just suggest to anyone not sure how long 2 metres is that they should imagine Peter Crouch lying down! That was Victoria Derbyshire’s way of explaining it to ‘the plebs’.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 11:06 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Heh. Nearly got into a fight at the Waitrose queue this afternoon.

After I joined the back of the queue, the chap in front of me (20s, beard, hoodie, shorts, mobile phone), kept looking round. Happily (or so I thought), I was about 8’-10’ away from him.
“Wanna keep your distance !” he snapped.
“Do you know how far 2 meters is ?” I asked.
“No harm in staying further away !” he shouted.

Giving up on mature discussion, I blew him a kiss. Strangely, he seemed to get even more upset then. But remembered, just in time, that trying to give me a slap would be illegal. 🙂

Felt sorry for him really, he was obviously so frightened, though he didn’t seem to know why exactly.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 29, 2020 11:47 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Nice one, John! 😀 Keep ’em coming. I’m sure as the days go by there will be plenty more tales to tell! Admin probably need to set up a new thread dedicated to coronavirus anecdotes. 😉 Or may be someone could compile a book.

I was walking down a narrow passageway today, shrubs each side, probably about 7 ft wide, and a young couple pushing a pushchair were coming the other way. I thought ‘This’ll be interesting”. They dutifully stepped as far over as they could but I noticed that they both turned their faces towards the hedgerow, lips pursed and, I swear, not breathing. The baby in the pram is, presumably, now condemned to an excruciatingly painful demise. Very odd…but not really surprising.

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
Mar 28, 2020 6:39 PM
Reply to  DavidW

My brother won’t talk to me. I sent him links from a Swiss doctor who is questioning the entire surreal situation. I always thought I was the crazy one, on the fringes of society, now I’m not so sure. I am beginning to think 🤔 I am sane.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 7:25 PM

The society is designed to make you feel crazy if you don’t adapt and instead of questioning the world you spend life questioning yourself … Until now you see who’s really crazy. Be grateful. We have control over our minds..

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 8:11 PM

In a mad world, only the mad are sane.

– Akira Kirosawa.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Kurosawa

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 7:27 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Yes it’s sad David but I have learned not to come out and state skepticism. There is really no point. I’ve been through arguments when this whole thing started up and I just stopped. Nevertheless there are little signs of cynicism sometimes from the most unlikely places. There is a guy in our work who is a real salt-of-the-earth guy. Not what you’d call academically bright. Not good with words. But he has sometimes astonished me with his astuteness. A few years back on the build up to an election while everyone was disputing over which party to vote in, he casually remarked to me, “It’s not going to matter a damn who you vote for, George” and a few days back while we were gearing up for the big lockdown and everyone was fretting about those “idiot” who weren’t taking it seriously he muttered something like “Maybe it’s all a con”.

At present we are in a strangely familiar situation as with 9/11 i.e. a very large number know that what they are really thinking is “the unspeakable”.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:44 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I’ve adopted the habit, as I walk past the long lines of socially-distanced people outside of supermarkets, of saying loudly “this is ridiculous — it’s all a hoax.” At least the minority of people still capable of independent thought will see that they’re not completely alone. As for the rest of them, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what they think of me. If they want to report me to the secret police for thoughtcrime, let them try.

Neddal
Neddal
Mar 28, 2020 7:36 PM
Reply to  DavidW

https://jods.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/jyzg7j6x
A profoundly important introduction to this recent (~10 year old) evolutionary transformation of the art and science of “Public Relations” (i.e., Propaganda) field and practices. It is worth noting however, the USSR hardly deserve the credit for this “invention” given the venerated traditions and extensive histories of “Unconventional Warfare” doctrines as applied by Western as well as Eastern imperialism generally (US, British, French, Russian, Portuguese, Chines, Japanese, Turkic, Ottoman, Islamic, Persian,…, Roman,…etc.).

A simplified outline of typical elements and steps…
https://lageneralista.com/participatory-propaganda-a-model/

….and an excellent breakdown and detailed analysis of specific case-studies. https://lageneralista.com/participatory-propaganda-in-7-simple-steps/

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 7:56 PM
Reply to  DavidW

” Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian”

Thanks for making me smile.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 8:09 PM
Reply to  DavidW

You have my sympathy. I personally find it best to say nothing to believers. Just simply observe them and listen without comment. If you have any sympathisers then speak to them.

My parents who are 77 seem to be quite skeptical, or at least they are open to conversation. I’m not so sure about other members of my family. I am told one of my sisters is a believer. I haven’t spoken to her and I don’t intend to.

Everyone is right in their own mind. It is very difficult to dislodge ideas from people’s minds once they have taken root. You cannot change what people think simply by arguing with them.

I’m keeping a low profile and playing along with it when out walking. Which I do very frequently. I treat it as a bit of a game. I find the way people are behaving out in public to be quite creepy at times, but I try to remember that that they are frightened and are just trying to cope.

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 9:03 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Yes these people need our understanding and love. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have swallowed this whole. People are terrified.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:46 AM
Reply to  DavidW

on the contrary, they need our contempt and scorn. did they learn nothing from the decades-long Terror War???

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 10:23 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Thanks David, for posting that moving description of your experiences the last few days.

I hope you’ll continue to comment regularly on that.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:52 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I had a stoned paranoid vison of the future in the festival gardens the other day. A children’s play area had been taped up like some crime scene with city watch tape and a Crime stoppers number.

It sure would be tragic if some anarchist subversive were to pull down all that police-state crap and throw it in a garbage bin, while nobody was looking. What might people do, if their lives weren’t directed in the smallest details, by the Proper Authorities?

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 4:52 PM

What’s been the most heart-breaking about this whole thing is the resection from nearly 99% of friends and family. I have had two arguments, one with a friend of thirty years and one with a cousin who is more like a brother. Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian. I was a bit like that when I was younger too. Both are totally sold on this and both tried to treat my arguments with ridicule. What was also disturbing was the repetition of the various fear memes going around. One came from my friend “THERE ARE DOCTORS AND PROFESSIONALS DYING ON THE FRONTLINE IN ITALY!!!!” He was totally serious too. When I asked for links to this information the argument then turned to ridicule and total dismissal of my conspiracy theories. A mental lockdown you could say. MY cousin hit me with the “DOCTORS ARE DYING/SUFFERING MELTING DOWN etc IN THE NHS” Again when asked to confirm this with some evidence he turned to the ridicule game. My sister who I had been putting off talking too ended our conversation with “I just hope none of us ends up with puss filled lungs and being unable to breath and then possibly dying” it was very saddening that people I love are going around with fear filled fairy stories manufactured by the 24/7 fear factory. I can’t even go and see my mum! She has been conditioned through the media and family to stay at home, although she at least is still walking the dog. Every time I suggested we come visit she was politely declining. I know if I push it, I will find resistance from my brother and sister.
My partner and little girl of 3 live right on Sefton Park in Liverpool. We moved to our house to be by the park and also enjoy other local woods. That is our main source of fun and recreation. We don’t watch TV or egad news radio etc, really gave up with that especially noticing the effect it was having on our little girl. (we were only giving her 30 minutes to 1-hour bursts of vetted shows but noticed that it was having a detrimental effect on her imagination).
So we have been spending a lot of time ignoring the warnings to stay in and really loving the weather and witnessing the waking of nature which has been very beautiful. As the week has progressed the atmosphere and reaction from other people has rapidly deteriorated. People pulling their kids away from our little girl. People seriously walking around you as you walk past.
I had a stoned paranoid vison of the future in the festival gardens the other day. A children’s play area had been taped up like some crime scene with city watch tape and a Crime stoppers number. It was like something from a Chris Morris sketch. What wasn’t so funny was a woman staring at us with such weirdness and what felt like hatred. I was so freaked out I asked her if she was ok, which she replied in a real monotone “I’m fine thank you” she was anything but. I had a paranoid train of thought of her calling the police and reporting us it was bizarre.
We went on the train yesterday with our bikes to go to the beach and were looked at with such hatred by the Mersey rail security on the train, who if they had the power would have been right in our faces. As we got off the train a lady working for the NHS was shouting “people are not keeping the correct distance” and promptly went to complain to the Ticket guy. Totally surreal. Although to provide some balance we have also met other families not buying into it and were happy for our little girl to play with their kids. It’s bizarre how things have changed each day.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:05 PM
Reply to  DavidW

I have met/passed/talked to relatively small numbers of people going on walks in glorious spring sunshine on the edge of London.

As you say, nature is waking up, the first bird chicks were taking their first swim in the Grand Union Canal, birdsong is everywhere in the mornings and we even have blossom starting to appear on some fruit trees.

I have to say that pedestrian walkways have not been designed with social distancing in mind. Nor have canal towpaths. They were designed to be as wide as a horse, not as long as a horse.

There are also websites where really strident totalitarians are trying to take over agendas ,particularly on CoVid19. I guess one must just leave them to it: they say I have a closed mind, projecting their own minds onto mine. They ‘know’ everything and I am sure they are highly qualified in medicine, finance, sociology, child development, not to mention Tory hatred.

I have been accused of all kinds of falsehoods, like denying Covid19 exists, being a Trump supporter until I die, adoring Boris, being a climate denier, an anti-vaxxer, even ‘being a torturer of children’.

It takes a sick mind to accuse someone falsely of the last of those.

Really makes the Labour Party attractive, eh?

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 7:21 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

They obviously don’t like attempts to seem that anyone would invalidate their egocentric psychotic break from reality.

How dare you not let me enjoy being mentally tortured!!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 8:55 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

But you ARE a ‘climate denier’ Rhys. How’s your sense of smell going?

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 9:08 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Just about to cancelling my membership. The Labour Party is owned by the establishment. Keir Starmer is a joke which I don’t suppose is news to anyone here. I was honestly taken in by the Corbyn thing. We live and learn.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:24 PM

Going by the posts describing the mounting sense of dread, this song seems appropriate:

The only way you know she’s there
Is the subtle flavor in the air
Getting hard to breathe
Hard to believe in anything at all
But fear

Piers G Robinson
Piers G Robinson
Mar 28, 2020 4:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

PG is a favourite of mine 🙂

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 8:13 PM

Me too. I saw him back in 1980 just before he released his third album and he was giving us a preview of the it. I was overawed by “Biko” but I didn’t know what the words were. I thought he was singing, “All those people”!

Piers Robinson
Piers Robinson
Mar 30, 2020 10:26 AM
Reply to  George Mc

ha 🙂 I remember first thinking Kate bush on ‘Games without frontiers’ was singing ‘we’re so happy now’ rather than ‘jeux sans frontier’ 🙂

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 8:36 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Gabriel was one of my heroes growing up. I wasn’t old enough to see him at his peak. I managed to see him on his So tour which was a little disappointing.

Piers Robinson
Piers Robinson
Mar 30, 2020 10:29 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I remember having his third album in an A-level English class and my teacher said, I remember him when he had long hair and led genesis … I think she believed his Genesis days were his peak 🙂 🙂

Arby
Arby
Mar 28, 2020 4:12 PM

“It is very likely, however, that the dangers posed by the potential exploitation of Corona for broader political, economic and societal objectives latter far outweigh the immediate threat to life and health from the virus.” Other experts are more certain that measures being put in place to do with covid 19 are completely wrong and unnecessary.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 3:48 PM

I went out for the very short walk round the block we are allowed here. As I walk normally and dont make detours to avoid people, one lady who had not expected me to just walk passed her on the pavement, had terror in her eyes: I have never seen such terror in anyone’s eyes, as though I was some mass murder let loose about to hack her to death. That terror is what terrifies me. People are becoming not inhuman but non-human, non-living creatures (since I doubt living creatures of the same species feel such terror for each other for no valid reason). That is what is terrifying.

Jane
Jane
Mar 28, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  anita

I know what you mean. On my way to the shop (with my attestation timed and dated) I passed a man whom I know by sight and we always say hello. He was wearing blue rubber gloves. He possibly thought I was veering towards him – I was about two meters away – and he actually raised his blue-gloved hand and wagged his finger at me, as much as to say, Back, Back. I had to think of deep blue oceans all the way to the shop.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 8:45 AM
Reply to  Jane

we always say hello.

in the unlikely event that “normality” ever returns, perhaps you’ll then save your greetings for people more deserving of them.

f*** these moronic a**holes. after two decades of fake Terror War, the FIRST question people should ask themselves about an event like this, is “does this story have any demonstrable connection with objective reality?” at this extremely late date, only drooling idiots would fail to wonder.

Jane
Jane
Mar 29, 2020 9:27 AM
Reply to  milosevic

I must admit I’ve already decided to take Mr Blue-Gloves off my hello list. On the same journey to the shops I also met a group of four young women, walking four abreast. One moved in front of the others when she saw me, probably because she thought I might react like Blue-Gloves, but as we passed we all said hello and smiled brightly. There was a sense of complicity about it.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 30, 2020 12:03 AM
Reply to  Jane

Yesterday, I was walking my dog down a paved disused railway sidings by a housing estate. There was a group of four harmless teenagers sitting and chatting on the railings up the slope to the estate and I saw they had a worried expression on their faces, obviously fearing I was going to reprimand them or report them. Being cruel ( 😀 )I thought I’ll keep them wondering. Five minutes later, on my return, they were still there looking uneasy. Anyway, my dog was off her lead and she ran over to them and they stroked her (always a good ice breaker!). I joked to them that she hadn’t yet perfected the art of social distancing. The look of relief on their faces was palpable and they broke into broad smiles. It just seemed sad that the prevailing atmosphere is not just ‘fear’ of the virus but fear of admonishment for demonstrating instinctive, natural behaviour.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 4:02 PM
Reply to  anita

Poor woman.

The product of relentless stimulation of her fight or flight response.

How do reassure someone when its illegal now to be in a strangers close vicinity?

The agenda pushers mist be rolling around laughing scaring people into submission.

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 4:32 PM
Reply to  anita

This is not happening in my part (of very rural) south west France. Everyone is very friendly towards each other, except of course none of the usual kisses and handshakes. Everyone is helping out each other. There is no panic whatsoever.

This comes on top of the explosive interview that Professor Christian Perronne has recently given to a French MSM news channel…

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-france-is-hiding-a-cheap-and-tested-virus-cure/

In times like this we cannot rely on totally corrupt governments. We have to stay calm and collected and rely on each other.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 5:57 PM
Reply to  RobG

Indeed thats good to know… Its not like this where I am… One neighbour realises there is something deeply wrong with what is going on, and so he phoned. But everyone has been made to be so afraid of one other, that he is unable to go further. It is this fear that is frightening because it will leave deep scars. I for one wont be able to remain on former terms with those who lost their basic humanity. My friends in England tell me, people are much more friendly than they ever were with each other in his neighbourhood, all helping each other. Im afraid in France the measures are so extreme as to be baffling. Other friends elsewhere in Europe recount to me their marvellous day trips to forests, seasides, lakes in this early spring…

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 8:46 AM
Reply to  anita

I for one wont be able to remain on former terms with those who lost their basic humanity.

nor should you.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 9:03 PM
Reply to  RobG

That Escobar piece is EXPLOSIVE. Once again, as one commenter stated, a cabal of ‘Irish’ conspirators are collaborating to take advantage of a disaster, and grab control of what appears to be an highly effective treatment, for their own nepotistic profit and benefit.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 5:59 PM
Reply to  anita

anita

You rebel, you! 😉 There’ll be a knock at your door soon!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  anita

Were you wearing a face-mask? In East Asia everyone, more or less, wears a mask in winter, to reduce the risk of contaminating others, and being contaminated oneself. And would it be such an affront to your ambulatory non-deviation to make a slight detour around others, just in case they are the terrifiable type?

paul
paul
Mar 29, 2020 12:48 AM

There are no face masks for sale anywhere in the UK.
I think you can get them on e bay for about £40 each.
Quite reasonable, when you think they take 2-3p to produce.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 4:00 AM
Reply to  paul

You can make your own.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 9:41 PM
Reply to  anita

To be extremely precise it was an intersection, the street she was on was sunny, the one I was on (perpendicular) to hers was in the shadows and cold. I had passed the intersection continuing on my street, and then thought it would be nicer to walk in the sun and turn into the street she was on, so returned towards the intersection, at about the same time she reached the intersection, and we crossed one other… So it wasnt even as though I had purposefully gone towards her to deliberately scare her…

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Mar 28, 2020 3:45 PM

The combination of fear and stupidity is a powerful drug. Americans are so scared, they’re not noticing that their quisling Congress has AGAIN bailed out those TBTF Wall Street casinos and that the FED is assuming nearly all bad corporate debt, like subprime auto and mortgage loans, the same BS that they used to blow up the economy in 2009.

Like the comedian WC Fields was fond of saying, “Never give a sucker an even break.”

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:30 PM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

Ah, Greg, but you forgot to mention the newly legalized, up-and-operating SPV’s… The Fed is in full ‘screw you middle class’ mode…

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 28, 2020 3:40 PM

The word “unprecedented” is incessantly thrown around in relation to the coronavirus. But there is nothing unprecedented about a virus. We, our species, have lived with viruses throughout our history. However, the response to the virus is, in my experience, unprecedented. In a matter of days, the elite have discarded our rights and trampled upon our liberties. They have given themselves arbitrary power to do anything, just so long as it can be plausibly wrapped in the rhetoric. They have trashed the economy. And instituted an entirely new set of social norms. They have done all this in the face of almost no push back. These actions show just how hollow is the word “democracy” in the mouths of the elite. Democracy means the people decide public policy. Yet all these changes have been introduced without so much as a mere by your leave. This is totalitarianism on steroids. Even Pol Pot would have been amazed at how easy it apparently is to completely reshape society: hysterically fan fear, provoking panic, and authoritatively provide a solution, any solution: it doesn’t have to make sense or even be consistent.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 28, 2020 4:56 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I agree Steve. But should people who are so easily frightened be anywhere near deciding public policy ? 🙂

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 29, 2020 10:48 AM
Reply to  JohnB

If not the people, then who is to decide public policy? That’s not a rhetorical question. I really would like to know the answer.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 12:26 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Has always been the tough question. 🙂 Personally, I lean towards a constitutional republic, where the people decide but under a framework that is less subject to short term or political influences.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 30, 2020 12:34 PM
Reply to  JohnB

JohnB But who would decide on the constitution? And if the answer is the people, why would they want to limit their own ability to make future decisions?

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 30, 2020 1:00 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

The answer is indeed the people.

Constitutions should be based on principles – free speech, free press, freedom of assembly, right to bear arms, freedom of religion, etc.

Limiting future decisions is crucial because of bad people, special interest groups, and what could be called ‘fashion’.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 30, 2020 3:09 PM
Reply to  JohnB

JohnB Your answer seems self contradictory. First, you assert the people should decide what the constitution should be. Then you assert what the constitution should be – clearly undermining your first assertion. Then you justify your assertion that the people should not be allowed to determine the constitution by pointing out that the people might make bad decisions. You strike me as about as committed to democracy as Plato.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 31, 2020 1:15 AM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Your answer seems self contradictory. First, you assert the people should decide what the constitution should be. Then you assert what the constitution should be
– clearly undermining your first assertion.

Principles chosen by the people. I gave some examples. How this undermines anything goodness only knows.

Then you justify your assertion that the people should not be allowed to determine the constitution by pointing out that the people might make bad decisions.

Say what ? (At least I know you haven’t been down the pub, Steve. 🙂 ).

Of course, I didn’t say any such thing.

People define a constitution. They include safeguards to protect themselves and their descendants against future bad actors, special interest groups, corruption, etc.

You strike me as about as committed to democracy as Plato.

Tempted to say you strike me as somebody who can neither read nor reason. 🙂 But we all have our off days …

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:17 PM

Britain’s housing market is frozen:

“The edict affects all transactions, blocking all transfers of title until further notice, while also banning evictions, it’s basically forcing the entire county to stay put in whatever housing situation they have been living in. For those who don’t have permanent housing arrangements, it’s presumably been a struggle. But that’s a relatively small slice of the population.

This is about all prospective homebuyers in the UK can do right now:

“You can speak to estate agents over the phone and they will be able to give you general advice about the local property market and handle certain matters remotely but they will not be able to start actively marketing your home in the usual manner,” the government said on Thursday night.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/britains-housing-market-freezes-wave-delayed-mortgage-payments-looms

This has nothing to do with viruses.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:36 PM
Reply to  clickkid

…And everything to do with realigning (i.e.relocating) the population?

The long anticipated run on banks can’t be far off now…

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:01 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Run on your bank, if you can, before the ‘bail-ins’ begin.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 3:11 PM

Here, from Dr. Wodarg, a chart of the numbers of patients with “Affection of the respiratory system” in Germany – compating the cases of the last yeard:
comment image

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Thanks Jörg – can you get me the link to that please?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:30 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I mean the link directly at the RKI. I can’t find it on Wodarg’s Website.

Cheers!

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  clickkid

@clickkid
On the page:
https://edoc.rki.de/handle/176904/6562
of the Robert Koch institut (RKI) you’ ll find this link to download a pdf:
https://edoc.rki.de/bitstream/handle/176904/6562/Influenza_Wochenbericht_KW12_2020.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

In this pdf called “Influenza-Wochenbericht Kalenderwoche 12/2020 (14.3. bis 20.3.2020)” You’ll find that chart.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 5:50 PM
Reply to  clickkid
SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:19 PM
Reply to  Joerg

So, if I’m reading this graph right, in week 12 of 2020, respiratory ailments in Germany were the lowest they’ve been in 4 years (0.5% of the population)…?

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Figures are pretty similar in the UK: 2017 and 2018 both much higher than 2020 up to the end of week 12.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:09 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Germany has very atypical figures for Covid19: plenty of cases, but almost no deaths. Italy and Spain are completely the opposite, very high ratios of deaths to cases.

Geoffrey Skoll
Geoffrey Skoll
Mar 28, 2020 7:13 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

It’s how the counting is done (and per Uncle Joe Stalin, who does he counting). Hardly anybody dies from flu (feel shitty for 3 weeks, not well for 4-5 weeks, then OK). People die from CO-MORBID conditions. That means especially poor elderly, minorities . . .etc. In other words, the redundant and expendable die. Those who can still work for the profit of the owners live until they die. The Germans found this strategy effective in the camps. It worked then; why not now?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  Geoffrey Skoll

Jeez, Geoff, your post got darker with each sentence… I happen to fit under your category of ‘redundant and expendable’… So, grazie for that… 😖

I’m over 65, retired (hey, bro, I paid my societal dues for 45 some years), and happy in my own skin… And yes, damn it, I can be redundant (I like to think it’s genetic)… But please, let’s not compare Auschwitz with Covid-19… And please don’t throw me out with the bath water…

Geoffrey Skoll
Geoffrey Skoll
Mar 29, 2020 2:36 PM
Reply to  Geoffrey Skoll

I did not compare current policies to Auschwitz because that was a death camp, not a concentration camp. Moreover, the general policy of treating surplus populations as expendable has been widespread through history. In the work-concentration camps, the inmates worked until they died with no concern about them. The camps had a never ending supply. Triage is already being practiced in France and several US states.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:14 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Is corona included in these numbers? (Or do they treat corona as something different?)
If it’s not included this does not tell us very much.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 10:04 PM
Reply to  fred

The answer is: YES. There are 4 groups of viruses responsible for respiratory diseases, or, if you want: for our “flu seasons”: Influenza-A, Influenza-B, Corona viruses and a fourth group, I can’t remember the name of at the moment.

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Mar 28, 2020 3:02 PM

Alien to Earthling

“Alien: “Why do humans measure infinity using unreliable rulers?”

Human: (About 3,000 years later) “Erm… So we have someone else to blame when we screw up.”

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 3:36 PM

Alien: Why does the government gives people fines for stealing a sandwich or breaching quarantine rules, but gives trillions of dollars to, and shower with medals, those who make bombs weighing 10 tons and blow innocent people into blood soaked smithereens?

Alien: (waiting for answer)

Alien – 10 years later: (still waiting for answer)

Alien – 100 years later: (still waiting for answer)

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Mar 29, 2020 12:34 AM
Reply to  Rise

Hello Rise,
The faulty ruler was used for punishment when I was in “grade” school… The measure of every damn thing humans need to survive is equally faulty… Do we need bombs to survive?
I had a friend who yanked the ruler away from our teacher one day and broke it in half. Some students laughed, some stared in awe, some just cowered. He thanked the principal for throwing him out of school. We were friends for many years…
I’ve never trusted paunchy weaklings in over stuffed suits instructing me about anything…

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
– William Pitt – (1787)

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:46 PM

Beware of nonsense such as this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/fauci-italy-hit-very-badly-covid-19-due-prevalence-chinese-tourists

Fauci is now saying that Italy has been so ‘hard hit’, because of all those Chinese tourists.

There’s just one problem – those tourists visit Rome, Florence and Venice, not the industrial suburbs of Milan and the surrounding dormitory towns.

Thailand and Vietnam also receive many more Chinese tourists than Italy.

Utter bullshit!

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Have you noticed how Fauci no longer grimaces and frowns (in the background) at Trump every time he opens his mouth…?

Fauci has become the good little soldier…
And any creditability he might have once had (if ever) is now gone forever… Cross him off the list, or add him to the list, depending on how you’re keeping score at home…

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I have had my suspicions about zerohedge. Consider this article:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/covid-19-exponential-threat-why-global-politicians-business-leaders-must-act-now

If anything, it is even more nihilistic than most of these doom mongering pieces. But I note the curious subtitle: “Why Global Politicians & Business Leaders Must Act Now” Since it seemed clear to me that global politicians and business leaders were unlikely to even read it and the only ones who did would be folks like myself who could do nothing, I wondered what the point of the link to this article was other than create a sense of despair.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Sadly, I read it…
The title has nothing to do with the flawed content…
And you are right, no global politician or business leader would bother to read this… Just a slap like me…

And now I’m really bummed out…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 8:05 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

I have read ZH since it started. The financial analysis is very good.

However, the last couple of years they have been Publishing a lot from 2 sources:

1. Gatestone Institute – anti-migrant, divide-and-rule stuff

2. Epoch Times – anti China.

The China-baiting the last couple of months has been unbearable.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 8:40 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Thanks, Kid…!
You seem to often pop up at just the right time…😉

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:11 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Epoch Times-CIA created and financed, compradore, vermin. This is ever more clearly a casus belli being created for war with China.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:51 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Zerohedge is controlled opposition. (Some truth, some propaganda)
Also as far as I know they’ve always been doomsayers.
Also a while back (the one time I checked, I usually never go there anymore) they were promoting some false story, I forgot which one (they’ve been publishing A TON of different stories or theories, I just checked with a search engine to try to find the specific one but there are too many and I forgot). All their sources went to one specific website, and all the sources from that one specific website went to…. themselves!

jasmoran66
jasmoran66
Mar 29, 2020 4:00 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Clicks. And unfortunately, I was one of those clicks.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:09 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s all part and parcel of the effort to use the pandemic as a casus belli for the long-planned war on China. Years of subversion, terrorism, economic warfare etc, have failed to ‘..bring China down’ and ensure continued global hegemony by the ‘Gods Upon the Earth’ of the ‘Judeo-Christian’ West, so biowarfare (ie African Swine Fever, several bird flus and CoVid19)was tried, and, now, massive blame-shifting and frankly racist hate propaganda, have proceeded. This is the end of 500 years of Western dominance of the world, and countless genocides, aggressions and economic pillaging, one way or another.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 2:16 PM

Nice to see Piers Robinson being published here. Maybe Off -G will consider doing the same for Craig Murray and other experts such as Richard Murphy on the current economic response to the virus.

Anyway, in expectation of a return of the guardianbollox article this weekend here is yet another (noncorona but certainly a WoT related) article that slavers its chops of Starmer, appointed by Blair as head of the CPS in expectation of some favour in the future, becoming the next Labour leader and a return to the centerist Neo Liberal consensus and escape from the traditional labour philosophy of inequality reduction and social safety net and justice for all.
……….
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/27/keir-starmer-profile-labours-non-aligned-leadership-frontrunner

‘Keir Starmer had no enemies. Can he keep it that way?
The shadow Brexit secretary is on course to succeed Jeremy Corbyn. Now he hopes to lead his party without picking a side

“Leftwing critics tend to describe his five-year stint at the top of the 6,000-strong Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) as the final stage in Starmer’s metamorphosis from firebrand QC to well-coiffed pillar of the establishment.

They point to the all-night court sittings held to administer swift punishment to the 2011 rioters – which Starmer subsequently claimed had helped quell the disorder; and tough prosecuting guidance that imposed sentences of up to 10 years on benefits fraudsters.’

‘Some individual cases are also regularly raised, though Starmer’s friends insist they are impossible to judge without knowing what advice he received at the time.’

The decision not to prosecute the policeman involved in the death of Ian Tomlinson in the G20 protests was widely criticised at the time, not least by Tomlinson’s stepson, Paul King.

“He [Starmer] has just admitted on TV that a copper assaulted our dad. But he hasn’t done anything. He’s the man in charge … why hasn’t he charged him?” But Starmer insisted there was no realistic chance of a successful prosecution.

His decision was subsequently reversed after an inquest found that Tomlinson had been unlawfully killed, but the police officer, Simon Harwood, was ultimately cleared of manslaughter in 2012.

Gearty defends Starmer’s overall record at the CPS, saying he managed to forge new policy ground by developing frameworks of guidance in controversial areas such as assisted dying, alongside the traditional role of making decisions on individual cases.’

—————

Not a SINGLE mention of Assange! The BIGGEST political case of this century so far. Who is targeted because of publishing the crimes committed under WoT in Robinsons article.

Starmer was in charge of the CPS when they threatened the Swedish authorities ‘don’t dare get cold feet’ when the Swedes were ready to drop the fake rape allegation investigation against Julian.

Now he has nothing to say about a innocent man being kept in high security remand – NOT for the FAKE charges in Sweden, which are long dropped by the embarrassed Swedes – but awaiting an illegal extradition to the US; Which was the reason why the fake investigation was instigated and why JA seeked asylum in a Embassy in the middle of London.

He didn’t RUNAWAY as claimed, like Lord Lucan or escape and hide like a petty criminal. Everyone new exactly where he was.

The UN and international legal bodies have severely criticised the gross injustice and treatment of JA, read about it at Craig Murrays latest on the refusal of the sadistic magistrates ruling against freeing him until his hearing in May (may get cancelled due to the virus) and to secure his health. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

————–

Do the right thing Off-G and all you readers as the Martial Law powers are tested this week.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 4:02 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Do the right thing Off-G and all you readers as the Martial Law powers are tested this week

Good advice. We should definitely try doing the right thing in future. Much better than our usual plan. Thank you.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 4:33 PM
Reply to  Admin1

Oh, looks like someone got up on the wrong side of their lockdown bed this morning, eh admin…? 😉

That’s the testiest friendly Off-G comment I’ve seen to date… C’mon… Groanin was just groaning… This is what he does (and he does it well)…

Most of us appreciate the platform, appreciate the open-door policy, and the daily insightful articles…

I’ve always felt comfortable here, knowing someone’s had my back, including you hard-working admins…

‘Nuff said…

Nassah
Nassah
Mar 28, 2020 4:16 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

We need to rebuild the Left and especially the Labour Party. That means working from the ground up all round the country, not just the capital. The Guardian has never been for the people, and this can be seen when you look into the newspapers history, who owned it, and what stance they took on the monumental issues of the day, such as slavery. The Guardian therefore is in no position to take the moral high ground.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 2:11 PM

I wrote a response to this article this morning when it first appeared about 2.30 am. I’m very sorry to see it has been censored. I admit it attacked what I see as a shift to Alt Right thinking by aping Bolsonaro, Trump and Johnson. The site bellyaches about media manipulation but doesn’t hesitate to use the same tactics. Quite an eye opener!

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  Paul

Well try it again then.

Look, I very probably won’t agree with it, but I want to hear what you’ve got to say.

So – out with it please.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 2:34 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s in this sites archives I imagine or maybe they delete all references? I don’t have a copy. Ask Admin?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:50 PM
Reply to  Paul

Hello Admin, have you got Paul’s comment somewhere please?

@Paul,

Can’t you get at least the gist of your argument into a few lines?

I don’t believe anything was ‘censored’

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 2:59 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Just checked in the spam folder and in pending. Sorry, no trace of that comment. Sometimes they just go astray. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s hard to accept I agree. I was thrown off the Guardian in 2016 for calling into question Mr Freeland’s integrity, an irony of sorts! I’ve been putting my case which is that there is a dangerous conflation of issues about Govt opportunism and media hysteria put together with whether or not there is a nasty bug going around or not and whether the Govt should concentrate on saving lives or keeping workers at their machines to preserve as much as possible the previous system. I think it is unremarkable that Govts are taking huge liberties (literally) to contain dissent; it’s in the nature of the beast and only a strong democratic system can unpick it. Pity is we no longer have that any where in the West. Personally I think it’s a great opportunity for left policies about nationalisation, income equality etc. Yesterday 54 people died in London hospitals. It’s both alarming and sad to hear people arguing ‘oh they would have died anyway’, ‘it’s not unusually high’. Really? The argument is sliding towards the Alt Right position advocated by Bolsonaro and Trump with Johnson dithering between both pivots. Bolsonaro puts it best; a ‘left wing media conspiracy’ to curtail the freedom of governments like his. Virus denying is going to get more difficult over the next couple of weeks but many minds seem closed. I’ve always avoided like the plague (get it?) cults and factions of any description. But fingers crossed maybe you guys are right and it’s all a giant con and it wasn’t 54 dead yesterday in London hospitals but 5+4 a little piece of manipulation. It was only 9 after all; spread the word, it’s all ok and time to get back to your work benches?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:48 PM
Reply to  Paul

Just because Trump and/or Bolsanaro apparently agree or disagree with a particular viewpoint has no influence on whether I accept or reject that viewpoint.

I judge it on its own merits – as it should be judged.

You raise the point about deaths in London hospitals. I don’t doubt that those deaths occurred. The important question in the context of this discussion is; What was the cause of death?

I’d encourage you to take a look at the graph posted above by Jörg, which comes from the RKI – Germany’s CDC.

It shows – up until a few days ago – cases of acute respiratory illness in Germany running at their lowest levels in 4 years

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:53 PM
Reply to  clickkid

You mean these deaths might be some other disease? Surprised the medics haven’t spotted that the patients are breathing fine but dying of something else. Germany has a lower death rate because it has a functioning medical system and their government cornered the best deals on equipment; apparently we lost the email about it? Does that help us at the moment, you seem to suggest it does?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 4:22 PM
Reply to  Paul

“You mean these deaths might be some other disease?”

Since the alleged symptoms of covid-19 are virtually identical tp pneumonia, then yes, that is quite possible.

Germany:

I am not referring t the death rate.

I am referring to the incidence of acute respiratory illness – which aould include covid-19. The incidence is obviously independent of how well-equipped hospitals are.

Go look at it and then read the following sentence again please.

‘The incidence of acute respiratory illness in Germany up until 20th March was, according to the Robert Koch Institut, the lowest for the time of year since 2016’

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:40 PM
Reply to  clickkid

But so what? It has no relevance to Londoners this next couple of weeks – does it?

Tony
Tony
Mar 28, 2020 9:06 PM
Reply to  Paul

Paul, not coming up with useful, factual info whilst posting opinions is fine. Posting unsubstantiated scaremongering with no facts is not fine. Fuck off. We talk sense here. Take your fucking nonsense to the comments sections on Yahoo and suchlike, where you belong.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 9:34 PM
Reply to  Tony

You make your point in a classic ‘denial’ outrage that somebody might have a different view.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 29, 2020 12:18 AM
Reply to  Paul

Slinging matches seem so important when you’re in it, but so boring to the outsider. Please try not to give into frustration on this or any other thread. Make some good points, and go in peace. Thanks

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 3:05 PM
Reply to  Paul

The figures show no abnormal death spike in Europe as yet. Covid19 may well be killing some people, as are some flu strains, and other viral agents, but none of them in apparently remarkable numbers to date.

The comment you are having difficulty locating is the first one posted on this article – ie the last one on the list, due to them being shown by default in reverse chronological order.

Now please stop claiming to be censored while you are simultaneously spamming uninformed fear memes to your heart’s content.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:47 PM
Reply to  Admin1

And the figures in London, nothing unusual?

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 28, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  Paul

Average UK deaths are somewhere between 1500 and 1800 a day. Taking London as approx an eighth of the population, they seem on the low side.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:53 PM
Reply to  Paul

“Virus denying is going to get more difficult over the next couple of weeks but many minds seem closed. I’ve always avoided like the plague (get it?) cults and factions of any description”

You say you avoid cults, but then you employ the expression ‘Virus denying’.

This use of the word ‘denying’ is quasi-religious, and is also employed in other contexts – see climate change.

It implies that the subject in question is an article of faith, that anyone who questions it is evil, and is an attempt to shut down rational discussion.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:57 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Just to add:

It is of course possible that, as you say, in a few weeks it will turn out that we are wrong (althought doubt that) and that we will have to reconsider.

However, if you wish to argue your point, then you must do that on the basis of evidence which exists already, and not on the basis of evidence which could possibly exist at some future time.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  clickkid

If you followed your own advice you’d have nothing to say

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:43 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Frankly this is nonsense wrapped up in pretension

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 3:41 PM
Reply to  Paul

Your post is the first or one ofthe first on this article – is thatthe one you mean?

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:45 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

When I posted it at approximately 2.35 am today and it appeared as item one but as you will know that won’t always be the position once it’s accepted and published. Why do you ask? You saw it maybe?

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 4:21 PM
Reply to  Paul
Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Yes that looks like it and the timing is right. I recall it differently but then a post at that time of night isn’t best remembered. So why did it disappear I wonder? And who put it back?

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 4:49 PM
Reply to  Paul

It didn’t disappear, you just couldn’t find it. Now stop spamming this thread with fake complaints and single sentence ad hom or we will be forced to actually handle your output like spam.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 5:22 PM
Reply to  Admin1

That’s true I’m afraid. But requiring at least two sentences is as strange as some of the Govt’s instructions. I’ll do my best to behave however. The Guardian makes you sign detailed pledges if you want to reapply for admission. I declined the invitation as it required making a personal apology to Johnathan F.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Thank you!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 5:28 PM
Reply to  Paul

You are welcome.
I may argue to the nth degree with anyone here – but I will always respect their right to post whatever rubbish they believe – it’s more fun letting them be raised by their petards😉

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Off-G, I haven’t yet seen them actually deleting or barring anyone in line with their stated raison d’etre.

Trust me . I expect to be one of the first if they start!

You can easily check by reversing the display order to show oldest first. And certainly by refreshing your browser first when in doubt.
Or if you want to preserve it right it first in a notepad or something or copy it and save it – the stuttery nature of the site often loses a live connection.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 6:31 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

I’m afraid I made a mistake here as I’d forgotten the reverse order of posts. Very foolish! Thanks for your help.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:50 PM
Reply to  Paul

I always type my posts into a word document first, then copy paste.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 3:23 PM
Reply to  Paul

I have seen nothing here glorifying bail-outs of banks, huge corporations etc.

I have seen nothing promoting deforestation, promoting fracking, China- and Russia-Bashing.

I have seen nothing supporting sanctions against Venezuela and Iran, let alone calling for a $15m bounty on Maduro’s head.

It is also, as a mature political person, possible to agree occasionally with your political opponents. I agree with Boris Johnson about honouring the Brexit referendum result. I agree with Donald Trump that Hillary Clinton promising ‘to nuke Russia’ as an election pledge in 2016 was not exactly consonant with being the Commander in Chief. And I agree with Bolsonaro that ‘people die, they just do’.

I am not a passionate supporter of any of them. I am not a passionate supporter of any US Presidential candidate, to be honest. I opposed the coup in Brazil ousting Dilma Rousseff. And to say I trust Boris Johnson further than I could throw him would not be telling the truth.

Large numbers of us feel like political orphans in that we do not feel that any representatives with a chance of power really represent our feelings, values and souls.

In the last election I thought carefully about spoiling my ballot paper before actually voting. I have never done that before but I really did not want to vote for anyone on offer to be honest.

I felt like I was being offered one of two whores: a fat ugly slag with big tits or a fat ugly slag with a big arse.

The third alternative was being a priest for eight years.

So I voted for a fat ugly slag with big tits…

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:34 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Well at least you share Bolsonaro’s misogyny!

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  Paul

Paul,

what do you mean when you say ‘misogyny’?

File this question under ‘Newspeak’.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:57 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Dislike or contempt of or prejudice against women and a horror of their bodies in extreme cases. It’s often seen in arguments that have nothing to do with sexuality eg ‘I saw this candidate like an ugly fat whore’ etc. If the cap fits…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 8:22 PM
Reply to  Paul

That’s called the use of metaphor Paul, and sexual metaphors are particularly powerful.

The comment you were referring to was not directed against all women.

Those who would police our speech prefer Greek and Latin derived words such as the various political phobias amd ‘misogyny’, because it makes it sound as if they are diagnosing a medical condition.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Sorry to hear you are plagued with images of whores, big hanging tits and big arses. The normal advice that you should get out more isn’t appropriate but Hey! If it’s a huge confidence trick you can! Call some mates around telling them to bring beer and discuss these whores at length, it might get it out of your system.

paul
paul
Mar 31, 2020 5:45 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

What are you complaining about, R? You can have a dogshit sandwich or a catshit sandwich. What more do you want? Some people are never satisfied.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:35 PM
Reply to  Paul

I don’t know if you’re still here, Paul, but I just found and read a ‘Paul’ post from 2:25am, which was replied to by Paul2…
Not sure if that’s the missing (“censored”) post in question…

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:47 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Oh really! Can you please send it on if possible?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:56 PM
Reply to  Paul

Sorry, my friend, but you’re talking to a dinosaur… No idea how to do that (and proud of it! lol)

I scrolled down, hit ‘load more’ a few times, kept my eye on the posts’ times, and… Voila! There you were at the very bottom…

Better get to scrolling…

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:31 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Thanks, I’ll try that. I’m glad you saw it though because whenever I state a plain fact I’m immediately accused of making it up and lying in my desperation to further a ‘Sentimental Conspiracy’ against strong Leaders like Trump and Johnson. Yesterday posters were convinced I’d invented a friend in a coma on a ventilation machine. The smugness of these armchair doctors is infuriating. One fellow said my friend would be fine ‘because they’ve given him a ventilator’ which they wouldn’t do if he was going to snuff it; an argument that seems to accept some aren’t given ventilators because they are too ill or there aren’t enough to go round. His family who haven’t slept since Monday when he was admitted are devastated. ‘Emotionalism’ is how one poster described my feelings. Cold hearted bastard in my opinion. Almost Stalinist. Facist.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:54 PM

Pepe Escobar:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-why-france-hiding-cheap-and-tested-virus-cure

Snippet:

“•On January 13, Agnes Buzyn, still France’s Health Minister, classifies chloroquine as a “poisonous substance,” from now on only available by prescription. An astonishing move, considering that it has been sold off the shelf in France for half a century”

Foreknowledge?

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 1:46 PM

In Australia, as of 25 March, we still have very low community transmission of this virus. The cases we are seeing are overwhelmingly in those who are returned travellers and in their contacts.

The quote is by a senior australian government official. The government is allowing Covid-19 testing ONLY if someone travelled overseas or came into contact with a confirmed case. Other, in the community, people -with symptoms- are NOT ALLOWED (forbidden?) to have the test done.

So, the government dictates the rule of testing only cohort X for infection, and then, government officials spring up on TV to REVEAL: There are infections ONLY in cohort X.

Louis N. Proyect
Louis N. Proyect
Mar 28, 2020 1:16 PM

It was inevitable that a chemical attack “false flag” conspiracy-monger would end up as a coronavirus conspiracy-monger.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 28, 2020 1:27 PM

So, Louis, do you swallow these miracle survivor stories from sufferers of the deadly COVID-19? I bet you do, you either everywhere-you-turn controlled opposition person or else very sad believer. https://youtu.be/8QGXpeo2V9w

Heads up, Louis, in case you’re not controlled opposition. False flag is a propaganda term. False flags are not really in the power elite’s MO. They just do out-and-out psyops. No need to get their hands dirty killing their own citizens, it’s all done with smoke’n’mirrors. If they can make us believe 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters hijacked four planes yada yada they can certainly make us believe 3,000 people were killed and 6,000 were injured on that fateful day.

So, if you swallowed the deadly COVID-19 miracle survivor stories. Here’s a few more from 9/11 to warm your little heart.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/2003/n_9189/

Victor G.
Victor G.
Mar 28, 2020 2:17 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Bologna

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 2:18 PM

Have a good read of Edward Berneys Propaganda 1928. You’ll see what category you fall into.

andy ellis
andy ellis
Mar 28, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

Everyone should read Bernays ” Propaganda “. Nothing will shock you after reading it. The man was years ahead of the game.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 3:40 PM
Reply to  andy ellis

He created the game…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:30 PM

You often find the comment in mainstream media that someone who is into one ‘conspiracy theory’ is into others as well. This is then presented as some kind of personality defect.

The reason for this phenomenon is quite simple.

A great deal of resistance to the acceptance of a ‘conspiracy theory’ is attributable to a person thinking of his government or other established authority:

“They wouldn’t do that, would they”?

So, you see,once someone has overcome this conditioned emotional obstacle to the acceptance of one ‘conspiracy theory’, then it is no longer there to hinder that person in the rational evaluation of another conspiracy theory.

For example:

If someone has satisfied himself beyond all reasonable doubt that say the US used biological weapons in the Korean War or operated death squads in Vietnam (Phoexis Project), then that person already knows what the US military-industrial complex is capable of. So, if one goes to him with perhaps the suggestion that the US backs Al Qaeda or that the US has used biological weapons against China, then he may, after due consideration, either accept or dismiss the idea. One thing he will not say is:

“They wouldn’t do that, would they”?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:02 PM
Reply to  clickkid

OMG…! The Phoenix Program… I had forgotten all about it…! What a forgetful ‘known dissenter’ I’ve become in my old age…

CIA-led operation during the Viet Nam War, where the gloves came off… All VC (Viet Cong) supporters rounded up and exterminated… I believe 25,000 killed was the number the Media used…

Thanks, Kid, for reminding me of my roots… 👍

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:24 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Douglas Valentine literally wrote the book on that one.

If you haven’t read it already, then I highly recommend it.

It was of course the precursor of the ‘Salvador Option’ in the 1980s and similar programs in Iraq in 2004-2007.

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 8:18 PM
Reply to  clickkid

…all by way of operation condor/school of the americas, ‘kid, by way of italian far-right secret society propaganda due’s leading role in the CIA-sponsored ‘years of lead’/gladio shenanigans in italy…

… – by way of ‘god’s banker’ roberto calvi, found dangling from blackfriar’s bridge in the city of london one fine june morning in 1982…

– i likes my rabbit holes nice and *deep*, and *twisty*…

😉

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 4, 2020 12:59 AM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

After I discovered that death and injury were staged on 9/11 I thought I’d check the 1980 Bologna station bombing and the Pearl Harbour bombing to see if the bombings were real but of an evacuated area just like 9/11. Sure enough that’s what the evidence shows. (Click my icon for webpages on these events – Bologna and Pearl Harbour are under Other Events).

I then realised that so much stuff is staged including, trials, alleged murders and suicides – you name it. I just looked up Calvi on Wikipedia (MI6 is proven to employ people in its pages and we are always given clues to these things – https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/07/wikipedia-a-disinformation-operation/) and what it says seems inordinately convoluted and not convincing. What do you think? I think Calvi was more than likely sheepdipped (given a new identity and shipped off somewhere) as was his secretary – maybe they were in a relationship and went off to a desert island together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi

andy ellis
andy ellis
Mar 28, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I worked with a guy who was an instructor at the “school of the Americas “. Now that is a perfect example of ” they wouldn’t do that would they ? “.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:36 PM

By the way ‘1 in 7 Billion’ posed this question a couple of hours ago:

“Meaning, I wonder what is it people hope to achieve by coming here and posting here.”

What’s your answer Louis?

Estaugh
Estaugh
Mar 28, 2020 2:45 PM

Here’s one for you, sunny Jim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we37yX3zpKA

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 28, 2020 12:50 PM

Really pleased to see Piers Robinson writing here. Id encourage anyone to go to any future events he holds. If ‘Media on Trial’ starts up again in a town near you highly recommended also.

The line up of speakers (Vanessa Beeley, Patrick Henningsen, Robert Stuart, Tim Hayward, Piers Robinson and Peter Ford) is brilliant and perfectly pitched to appeal to all, including those starting their journey to reality.

Plus hilarious exchanges on Peter Hitchens Twitter between him and John (Florence Nightingale) Sweeney. We are so lucky having all these great people speaking up. Do follow him. His tweets are gold dust in times of house arrest and lockdown.

I like Rania Khalek’s utube presentations and Caitlin Johnson’s writing. But the Uturns over Syria and
line on CV, has knocked my confidence in them. But I guess take the good bits and forgive the slip ups. Difficult to be right all the time.

1of7billion
1of7billion
Mar 28, 2020 12:45 PM

As someone who has only posted here recently, apart from giving the MSM and the Guardian in particular a well deserved bashing, I am still not sure of exactly what this website is about.

Meaning, I wonder what is it people hope to achieve by coming here and posting here.

Meaning, yes, we all get a chance here to “get it of our chest” and put forth our own ideas, which the way the internet is now, is pretty much a rarity, to not have some pompous twit of a “politically correctness censor” like at the Guardian policing your free speech so called, to ensure that you don’t publicly express any “inappropriate views”, in particular views that “might offend someone.”

That’s the part of the “commenting policy” that makes me laugh (I mean whilst sighing mournfully also) the most, because as far as I am concerned, free speech is more or less the right to offend others, not of course that one should be offensive to others in any way if it is avoidable.

But the problem with that is, we have got to the stage in this society where what offends most people the very most – and especially those in positions of authority of some kind, including the likes of Guardian journalists, who are authorities, especially due to their right to censor or even forbid contrary views on their publication absolutely – is the truth.

Of course there’s also a lot of argument about what the truth is, and that is also understandable, as in fact it is not always easy to find or state the truth no matter how hard one tries, except on simple issues as “please tell me what you bought in the shop today?” “Oh, a 24 pack of toilet rolls and a tin of beans.”

Which if we can get to examine somebody’s shopping bag, we can easily determine the truth of.

But in most other cases it is far harder. And then we enter “conspiracy theory land.”

Because if we can’t actually get our hands on that shopping bag to inspect it – and this is out status re what most of those in high places are up to – we start making claims like – that person was never known to like beans before, so they must be hiding something. What they probably have is caviar because they are an elite sort of person, so are covering it up by pretending they are just like everybody else and only eat beans.

And then as to the 24 pack of toilet rolls. Hmmph…I doubt that. It’s hard enough to get a 4 pack lately, so if they really have a 24 pack they must be black market toilet rolls, which therefore “proves” this person’s criminal connections, etc, etc.

So though I suspect the above article is mostly the truth, as to the current crisis, I will hold my hands up high and say, though I too have my theories, I don’t in truth have any definite idea of what is going on or why, and nobody else I’ve heard has convinced me that they do either.

All I know for sure is there is a big shortage of toilet rolls, and we have a lot of national leaders who for one reason or another are willing or able to impose mass imprisonment on their citizens based on information that looks dubious at best, but is almost impossible to assess properly, because not enough of the population is being tested to know what the real risk of this virus is.

So that means the governments may be planning a never ending fascist dictatorship, and they may not be. I really can’t tell, so the rest is just speculation.

My guess is personally this will all be over in a few weeks, but I might be wrong.

What I do think is clear though, and is our real problem, long before we heard of the dreaded COVID-19, which I sincerely wish never to hear about ever again, as I am sure do likely billions by now of others, is that we have a political system which puts people into power who do not properly represent us and keep doing things we don’t like, and failing to do things we do like.

So when I questioned why people came here, what I meant was, if they had any genuine desire to change the world.

I mean, criticising how things are, which is what the downtrodden have been doing since history began, is not any definite evidence that the downtrodden are actually willing to do anything to change things, or even actually want to.

Because the sad fact is, that even most of the probably more independently thinking and intelligent people who come here than the average Guardian supporters, are still playing “I’m all right jack/jill” and frankly, I include myself in that.

And actually to be honest, if they’d just reopen the pubs, I think I could probably cope with everything else that the tyrants are usually doing, and have actually always been doing for most of the past x thousand years.

We are mostly all not all that concerned, unless they are doing it to us personally.

So frankly, I am not saying I am going to do much about “the global dictatorship” either, as long as they leave me alone, and let me start going to the pub again.

I know a lot of people here agree with me, as when I made a comment about reopening the pubs, I got more approval for that than anything else I wrote.

Because the thing is, everybody knows that changing the world is very hard anyway. If you actually want to do that, like the protesters have been trying to do in Hong Kong, there’s a very good chance you are going to get beaten senseless by armed police, sprayed with poison gas, murdered/shot, tortured, electrocuted with TASER weapons, etc, etc.

Or we can think back to the miners strike, when a lot of miners got savagely beaten by police on horseback with big sticks, and they also lost, and Mrs Thatcher really inaugurated the age of tyranny and caused the mass working class unemployment, which the working/lower class has never properly recovered from ever since.

But I’ve got a suggestion of how we could actually change the world without getting our heads beat in or tortured in Room 101 by Big Brother (or currently Big Boris I suppose, or Big Donald in the US, or even “Big Nicola” in Scotland for that matter (the joke there is they call her “Wee Nicola” in case anyone doesn’t know)).

But I’ve already floated my suggestion here, and it got ignored or rejected, because it isn’t in the least exciting, there are no global lockdowns or fleets of black helicopters or compulsory microchipping of humans involved – I mean now everybody is being tracked to about the nearest foot or metre by their mobile phones, microchipping physically seems hardly necessary anyway).

So my suggestion is really, really boring, and if it doesn’t make people yawn, I will have failed in my purpose I believe.

But it is I also believe the only thing that will change anything, as it is the only thing that will give ordinary people power, which right now they clearly haven’t got.

And it’s called electoral reform.

Oh, no, is this man stupid! – I hear the voices say.

Well I’m sorry, but I’d rather say, if anyone can’t see this is the only answer, it is they who are having the cognitive disorder.

Because our problem is that those guys in the photo at the top of the article, who keep ordering global horror, including now even terrorising and mass imprisoning their own populations, don’t actually represent us.

They keep doing what they want and not what we want.

And unless we can change that, nothing changes, in fact even worse, as we’ve just seen, everything gets ever worse. As when those who have this power discover that more and more they have carte blanche to do whatever they like and are not at all accountable for it, they do ever worse things.

You know, the old saying, about power corrupting absolutely, so basically once any semblance of democracy has gone, they start acting like Roman Emperors of old or totalitarian dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, etc, etc.

I mean, I think we need to be honest about this, and admit that even we ourselves, if we had unlimited power over others, would likely do all sorts of dictatorial things ourselves, as we all have got some of the tyrant in us, but we never get the chance to show it.

We easily see this, when we see somebody we know get a work promotion, and they turn into a “little Hitler” bossing people about with glee that formerly they might have even considered “friends” – but no longer.

You only have to look at politics itself and all the backstabbing that is easily visible to see how true this is.

But to pretend it’s only politicians who behave like this is to fool ourselves we or those we know are all that different – my guess is there is at least one dictator in every family and most relationships, and possibly even several.

What divorce means in most cases, is that two dictators meet who find each other physically attractive and assume that when married the other party is going to allow them to dominate.

But when some weeks, months or years (that’s only when you get two very stubborn dictators, who still think they are going to win eventually) down the line they find that is not the case, they fight to the death nearly (in some cases literally) and then when neither dictator will given in, they finally separate, and blame one another for “unreasonable behaviour.”

When of course the truth is they are BOTH unreasonable, so never should have got together in the first place.

Mostly the only marriages or other relationships that last, are never based on so called “equality”, but only when one party agrees to get dominated and the other party therefore gets to boss them about.

And you see, just as we do with our government, the bossed about party just has a good moan about it to their friends or whoever else will listen.

But they don’t actually ever do anything to change it, they don’t actually ever try to “stand up for themselves” as they already know that their spouse would transform into a raging barracuda if they tried, and so they’d either have to submit again, or be evicted out the door with probably the imprint of a boot in their rear just like in the cartoons.

So you see, it’s a rare relationship that there is so called “equality” in. Dictators don’t do equality, either in government or in the home.

So when ordinary people are like this – and let’s face it, the sort of politicians we usually get nowadays are usually VERY ordinary people – they are not Churchills and they aren’t JFKs – how can you expect governments to be any different?

So on the subject of this virus, I actually watched a video of this German guy who talks a lot of sense on it I feel, Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=650&v=yn074EB5NNY&feature=emb_logo

But it wasn’t so much his clear insights into the virus situation that I focused on, but I just thought this guy seems really sincere, thoughtful, caring, considerate. I thought why is it that we don’t have guys like this, true gentlemen (or women), who can probably be trusted not to turn into crazed dictators once they sniff power, running the world, as leaders of countries and so on?

Well I’ll tell you why – it’s because we never get to choose, we only get the choice between self-seeking deceitful local or national tyrant A, B or C.

Because we never get anywhere near deciding who is on the electoral candidate lists.

Some special interest group somehow hijacks that process and gets “their man/woman” on the list, so they represent them, not us, and our vote is rendered meaningless, democracy is sabotaged at the very first base.

So please hear me. This is not really “my opinion.”

It’s just a logical fact, that if we can’t decide who we can choose from to put into power, we can never get anybody in power that will do what we choose, or wish, anybody who really represents us.

The elite have spent most of history doing precisely that – making sure the public never get anybody in positions of power who truly represents them, and they achieve that by only allow us to “choose” between people who they already own and have wrapped around their little fingers (sometimes by having scandalous dirt on them, that they’ll threaten to expose if they don’t obey).

That is how they carry out their tyranny, while pretending to the public that they have chosen whoever it is who “leads them” (meaning in practice, as we are seeing, whoever dictates to them, whoever bosses them/us about).

If we don’t address this issue of getting control over electoral candidate lists – e.g. by preselecting them from a 5 minute video on YouTube, with absolutely anybody who dares, able to stand for office – we will just see these in truth unelected dictators continue to cause havoc, playing with our lives as callously as some demented malevolent child who pulls the wings off an insect, just because it can, and it has learned (no doubt due to bad parenting) to enjoy inflicting pain.

As that is in fact what most of our leaders are like psychologically – though I still don’t think Boris Johnson is one of the worst ones and Jeremy Corbyn is definitely not – they are sick people who are merely enjoying taking their frustration out on us, feel better about themselves by cruelly bossing everyone else about – we are very lucky in my view Theresa May is still not in power, as I think she would be a lot worse than Mr Johnson, just as Mr Macron in France appears to be.

In the UK and mostly America too the other trick they use is “first past the post” – which means that typically around 25% or less of the population can dominate the other 75%, which was the case when David Cameron got his slim majority, that the disastrous, despotic and dithering Theresa May subsequently threw away.

So full proportional representation is the other thing that must be introduced, because otherwise we remain with the situation that less than one quarter of the population can rule everyone else – that is really what has been happening for most of UK history – with basically the middle and upper classes (about 25% of the population) voting into power a government (Conservative or New Labour) that only favours them and ignores the needs and wishes of the 75%, the majority, most of whom remain totally voiceless and there is no point voting, as they mostly live in safe seats which are automatically won by one or other of the main parties.

Note that most of Europe has full PR, but even the most ardent EU lovers never mention that we too should enjoy the benefit of it (the reason they also still have dictators in Europe is they still haven’t got control over their candidate lists, but parties like the Greens, Nationalists or others still have much more influence and power than they have here).

Don’t imagine however that our governments will ever allow this electoral reform if they can stop it – they are united in condemning such truly democratic electoral reform as “dangerous nonsense”, as they know forbidding it is vital in order to keep the status quo, which as we are now seeing is nothing other than dictatorship.

rraa
rraa
Mar 28, 2020 12:57 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

If everyone were to stop going to the Guardian / NYT / WaPo / take your MSM pick website and to come to sites like these, that would already be a HUGE start in the right direction.
If nothing else, just boycott MSM.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  rraa

I do still occasionally comment at the Telegraph and the Guardian.

I think what we shoud be doing on those sites is dropping titbits of information contradicting mainstream narratives, in order to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of that subset of readers on those sites, who are open to alternative explanations.

When I do this, I never, or rarely, push an argument myself. I just take some facts or statistics, sourced uncontroversially, which contradict the established narrative.

I think it’s important to let the reader come to his or her own conc