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The Propaganda of Terror and Fear: A Lesson from Recent History

Dr Piers Robinson, Co-Director Organisation for Propaganda Studies

President George W. Bush signs the PATRIOT Act into law, October 26th 2001

The ongoing and unfolding reactions to the Corona Virus look set to have wide-ranging and long-lasting effect on politics, society and economics. The drive to close down all activities is extraordinary as are the measures being promoted to isolate people from each other.

The deep-rooted fear of contagious disease, hardwired into the collective consciousness by historical events such as the ‘Black/Bubonic Plague’ and maintained through popular culture (e.g. the Hollywood movies Outbreak and Contagion), means that people are without question highly susceptible to accepting extreme emergency measures whether or not such measures are rational or justified. The New York Times called for America to be put on a war footing in order to deal with Corona whilst former Army General Stanley McChrystal has been invoking his 9/11 experience in order to prescribe lessons for today’s leaders.

At the same time, political actors are fully aware that these conditions of fear and panic provide a critical opportunity that can be exploited in order to pursue political, economic and societal objectives. It is very likely, however, that the dangers posed by the potential exploitation of Corona for broader political, economic and societal objectives latter far outweigh the immediate threat to life and health from the virus. A lesson from recent history is instructive here.

9/11 and the global ‘War on terror’

The events of September 11 2001 represent a key moment in contemporary history. The destruction of three skyscrapers in New York after the impact of two airliners and an attack on the Pentagon, killing around 3000 civilians, shocked both American and global publics. The horror of seeing aircraft being flown into buildings, followed by the total destruction of three high rise buildings within a matter of seconds, and the spectre of a shadowy band of Islamic fundamentalists (Al Qaeda) having pulled off such devastating attacks, gripped the imagination of many in the Western world.

It was in this climate of paranoia and fear that extraordinary policies were implemented. The USA Patriot Act led to significant civil liberty restrictions whilst the mass surveillance of the digital environment became normalized.

In the United States torture was authorized in the name of preventing terrorism whilst the Guantanamo Bay facility in Cuba became a site in which accused individuals have been held without any adequate legal protection or due process.

Remarkably, the individual accused of leading the alleged 9/11 plot, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who ‘confessed’ to CIA interrogators after being ‘waterboarded’ 183 times, has recently received his trial date, set for January 11 2021 and 20 years after 9/11. Civil liberty restrictions, mass surveillance and torture were only a sub-strand of the major war-fighting-policy that was enabled by 9/11.

Presented at the time as America’s ‘New Pearl Harbour’, 9/11 provided the conditions for a series of major regime-change wars which persist until today.

Critically, these wars have not been primarily about combatting ‘Islamic fundamentalist terrorism’/Al Qaeda, but rather attacking ‘enemy’ states. Indeed, the evidence that the 9/11 event and the alleged threat of ‘Islamic fundamentalist’ was then exploited in order to pursue a geo-politically motivated set of regime-change wars which had little connection to the purported Al Qaeda threat is well established.

Former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, Wesley Clark, famously went public in 2006/7 stating that immediately after 9/11 he had been informed that the US was intending to attack seven countries within five years including Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan and Iran. Clark stated:

He [the Joint Staff officer] picked up a piece of paper, he said I just got this down from upstairs, from the Secretary of Defence’s office today, and he said this is a memo that describes how we are gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off Iran.

Clark’s claims have recently been corroborated by retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (chief of staff to Colin Powell and Iraq War planner) who stated that he had actually seen the same plans Clark was referring to many months prior to 9/11:

My first briefing in the Pentagon from an Air Force three-star general in February of 2001 I almost fell of my chair because their briefing included on the one hand the Air Force’s ability to take out 80 to 90% of the targets in North Korea in the first few hours of an aerial strike on that country to hey when we do Iraq we’re gonna do Syria and Lebanon and we’re going to do Iran and maybe Egypt … but this was more than that [just contingency planning] Wes Clark is right they had these plans they were going to go right through all these countries that they felt threatened Israel all through those countries that they felt threatened 25-30% of the world’s oil passing through the Strait of Hormuz.

Documentary evidence for these claims has come by way of the UK Chilcot Inquiry into the 2003 Iraq War. For example, a report quoted a British embassy cable, dated 15 September 2001, explained that ‘[t]he “regime-change hawks” in Washington are arguing that a coalition put together for one purpose [against international terrorism] could be used to clear up other problems in the region.’ Another document released by Chilcot shows British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush discussing phases one and two of the ‘war on terror’ and when to hit particular countries. Blair writes:

If toppling Saddam is a prime objective, it is far easier to do it with Syria and Iran in favour or acquiescing rather than hitting all three at once.

The regime-change wars that have flowed directly and indirectly from 9/11 continue to this day. War and conflict continues in Afghanistan and Iraq whilst the nine-year-long war in Syria has borne witness to extensive and illegal policies pursued by Western governments including the funding and arming of extremist groups coupled with support for groups actually aligned with Al Qaeda. Iran continues to be subjected to US hybrid warfare tactics including sanctions and covert operations whilst the threat of military action is very clear and present.

The human cost of these wars, built upon the ruthless exploitation of public fear of terrorism in order to pursue multiple ‘regime-change’ wars, has been huge. According to the Brown University ‘Costs of War Project’, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have killed a combined 480,000 to 507,000 civilians, coalition military members, and foreign fighters, with an untold number having been maimed and disfigured. IPPNW estimated that the first ten years of the ‘war on terror’ in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan killed 1.3 million people.

Since 2011, in Syria alone, over 400,000 people have died as a result of war. The numbers of people displaced as a result of these conflicts are also extremely high; wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Syria have wrought a combined 9.39 million refugees, 10.78 million internally displaced peoples, and 830,000 asylum seekers. In addition, there are persisting and very serious concerns with respect to the possible involvement of state actors with the event of 9/11.

Recent and critical developments regarding the events of 9/11 include the publication this week of the University of Alaska study of the WTC7 Collapse which confirms that the official US government investigation was wrong if not plain fraudulent. Other important developments include publication last year of the 9/11 Consensus Panel evidence and increasing scrutiny of the official narrative from mainstream academics.

Overall, the 9/11 global ‘war on terror’ is increasingly coming to be understood particularly across the world as, first and foremost, a remarkable propaganda campaign designed to enable violent conflict in the international system and with its effects and objectives being far wider and deeper than had been suggested by official narratives regarding the need to combat Al Qaeda.

Corona Virus: A New 9/11?

The lesson of 9/11 is that major events can become what scholar Peter Dale Scott describes as deep events which are exploited by political actors in order to precipitate and manage major political, economic and social shifts. 9/11 became, in effect, the deep event that enabled 20 years of unfettered Western warfare abroad and severe civil liberty restrictions and extensive surveillance at home.

At the time of 9/11 many people in the West were terrified of terrorism. Public opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan (the first regime war to flow within months of 9/11) was almost impossible without being accused of being reckless in the ‘fight against terrorism’ or of being an ‘Al Qaeda’ sympathizer. Muslims throughout the West were widely despised. US President George Bush declared that ‘you are either with us or against us’. The parallels with what is happening today are obvious.

Is the Corona Virus a new 9/11, a new deep event? We cannot yet be sure, as of this writing. Perhaps the current strategy of suspending basic liberties will work to effectively eliminate all threats posed by the virus. Governments will then restore the civil liberties currently being suspended and all will fairly quickly return to the way things were before. Perhaps the economy will confidently weather the fallout from the ‘lockdowns’ and everything will return to business as usual.

And perhaps a sober ‘lessons learned’ review will lead to public health officials developing reasonable and balanced plans, such as developing sufficient capacity for rapid testing and tracing, which can be deployed the next time a sufficiently dangerous virus starts to spread thus avoiding terrifying publics and implementing draconian measures that inflict significant damage to the social and economic fabric of society.

Or perhaps not. It may be that, as British journalist Peter Hitchens has been warning, the loss of liberty and basic rights will continue indefinitely as governments greedily hold on to their increased powers of control over their citizenry.

Similarly, Italian journalist Stefania Maurizi has warned about the risks in Italy of state authorities, hostile to open societies and the political left, exploiting Corona in order to increase their control.

An obvious concern here is whether there will be a permanent impact on mass gatherings and protests. James Corbett warns of a permanent state of ‘medical martial law’ and there is certainly the very real possibility of the normalization of government-imposed quarantine and other freedom of movement restrictions.

Margaret Kimberley of the US-based Black Agenda Report warns that Corona may be used as a way of covering up both economic crisis and collapse. She notes that the Federal Reserve ‘recently threw Wall Street a $1.5 trillion lifeline which only kicked the can down the road. The can has been kicked ever since the Great Recession of 2008’. The likely destruction of small businesses might allow for ever greater corporate choke-hold on the economy with more people forced into the corporate workforce.

There is certainly the danger that Corona will be exploited in order to distract from severe economic problems whilst also enabling the pursuit of new economic strategies which worsen rather than mitigate the social inequalities that already tarnish Western countries.

And, of course those actors behind the regime-change wars that flowed from 9/11 may use the Corona Virus to increase pressure on the countries they have been targeting for the last 20 years and those they wish to target in the future.

Already we have seen the regime-change advocate John Bolton blaming China for the Corona Virus whilst the New York Times reported that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien were ‘arguing that tough action while Iran’s leaders were battling the corona virus ravaging the country could finally push then into direct negotiations’.

ABC news report that, despite the Corona Virus, US and UAE troops have held a major military exercise ‘that saw forces seize a sprawling model Mideast city’. It is also worth nothing here the recent US assassination of Iranian General Solemeni and the on-going proxy battles between US forces and Iranian-backed groups in Iraq. The possibility of Corona being exploited in order to further the regime change wars we have seen over the last 20 years is extremely likely and it would be naïve in the extreme to think otherwise.

Whatever the Corona event may or may not be, the fundamental lesson of the last 20 years is that governments can and do exploit, even manipulate, events in order to pursue political, social, military and economic objectives. Fearful populations are frequently irrational ones, vulnerable and malleable. Now is not the time for deference to authority and reluctance to speak out.

It is time for publics to get informed, think calmly and rationally, and to robustly scrutinize and challenge what their governments are doing. The dangers of failing to do this likely far surpass the immediate threat posed by the Corona Virus.

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John Hirko
John Hirko
Mar 30, 2020 10:16 PM

I find it telling that I am not hearing any information concerning the connection between UVB radiation/Vitamin D/Flu Outbreaks from the MSM / Government. Please review this information and if you find it useful, share it with everyone one you know. Ask a doctor’s opinion. Have your doctor read this first, then ask their opinion. Ask your local media and politicians why they are not emphasizing the importance of Vitamin D & the UVB Sunlight connection to fighting COVD19 and other viruses. Please take your Vitamin D3,………. & C, B2,12, E, Magnesium, Zinc, Omega 3,6 also, but this concerns “D3”… Read more »

Steve Culbreth
Steve Culbreth
Mar 31, 2020 7:38 AM
Reply to  John Hirko

Wow, the only thing I could add to that is the importance of hydration.Quality water is rare, the human body requires H2O to function properly. NOT CHLORINE, FLORIDE, CALCIUM CHLORIDE,SODIUM BICARBONATE OR SUGAR or any of the many chemical compounds tainting our drinking water!
Thank You John Hirko for such honest and caring reporting. You are truly a blessing.

John
John
Apr 22, 2020 12:14 AM
Reply to  Steve Culbreth

This is not the only area where what is free and natural, and also naturally enjoyable is disregarded and neglected. Our Western societies are sick and highly artificial, sick morally, mentally and physically. The question should thus be put more broad, way more broad, why do we have a gigantic money slurping (and money making) pharmaceutical and medical industry, while people are poisoned by the food industry, leading stressful and unhealthy lives, continuously stressed and made fearful by media, in a broadly overstressed and highly over-complicated over-regulated society. Why are simple and natural solutions overlooked, because of the massive pocket… Read more »

John
John
Apr 22, 2020 12:40 AM
Reply to  John Hirko

“I realize I will be demonized as being a “Conspiracy Theorist” for disseminating this information about Sunshine, UVB and Vitamin D, but I ask you, “Where is the Lie”? Put your critical thinking caps on, review the information provided and please tell me where I am wrong. ” Don’t worry, there is no conspiracy of people out on hiding this kind of information, an artificial society, devoid of common sense, not valuing the simple and the natural, making everything over-complex, out on regulating everything (because of power, money and ideological fanaticism) will swing towards neglect of such things automatically. Plain… Read more »

Carolyn Goyda
Carolyn Goyda
Mar 30, 2020 3:37 PM

Keep your sense of humor 🤗
There will be snitches and stooges 🦠
Weak people love melodrama and direction – know who YOU are 😊
Common sense, fresh air, sunlight, hygiene – love faith and self respect ✊
Courage & resolve vs the totalitarian tiptoe
https://youtu.be/pL-ujPmMefA

Estaugh
Estaugh
Mar 28, 2020 11:46 PM

A blast from the past, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DfG1SNydnc “They got the guns, we got the numbers”

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 10:50 PM
Reply to  Estaugh

Currently, in the US of A, there are far more firearms in private ownership.

Not sure about in Jim’s day … 🙂

Gall
Gall
Mar 28, 2020 11:03 PM

Evidence points to the same “full spectrum dominance” “exceptional” neocon retards who unleashed 9/11 and Amerithrax are involved in unleashing the current epidemic. See Veterans Today:

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/23/precursor-to-cv-19-yes-we-mean-9-11/

Mark
Mark
Mar 28, 2020 10:56 PM

Yes, fear is what we must avoid. Unity and courage is what will save us from any “terrorism” or corporate takeover.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
Mar 28, 2020 10:15 PM

Ironically I hear that ISIS inc have forbidden their ‘ Martyrs ‘ from conducting their terrorist campaigns because the Corina virus is a Western disease/virus and could harm the explosive vest merchants in the execution of their terrorist activities. That’ s a bit like the WW1 soldiers in the trenches being warned by the generals that smoking could kill you! Here’s the problem for myself: There is no doubt that for some reason Italy – Spain – New York and so on are suffering from an unusual number of deaths. Over and above ‘ the normal ‘ ( read into… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Mar 29, 2020 9:31 AM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

‘Climate change, whether true or false – we never know until it’s happened ‘. But some subjects are relatively easy to get to the truth of. There’s always experts in their their chosen field who remain uncompromised by overbearing or corrupt institutions. See people like William Happer and Peter Ridd.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Mar 30, 2020 2:52 PM
Reply to  Steve

Or the late Freeman Dyson. Just been watching an old video lecture of his (which did not touch on Climate Change at all, as it happens). What a wise, charming, modest, and amusing man he was.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 3:55 AM
Reply to  Steve

Two absolute renegades, denounced by all their colleagues, numbering the thousands, and with no expertise in the fields on which they pontificate and disinform. Why do you choose outsiders with NO credibility over thousands of scientists with the facts on their side. Ridd looks even more odious as the Great Barrier Reef bleaches for the third time in five years, having not bleached for at least 800 years (coral cores) before 1998.

Luca Pontone
Luca Pontone
Mar 31, 2020 6:47 PM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

It’s been delivered by the Chinese they have many million and billion aires compared to the us and eu. We are now the dwarf continent. They are the future we are the past. We will never compete they have far too large a population, and a far more wealthier population than the rest of the world. While the west has a rich 1 percent China have a rich 10 percent. Let that sink in on there numbers alone.

Rachel Wild
Rachel Wild
Mar 28, 2020 9:26 PM

If people don’t wake up now it’s game over… this is a must read…
“The most distrusted industry in America, known for it’s profligate profiteering at the cost of people’s lives… EU to probe pharma over “false pandemic”… https://www.wilddigital.co.uk/covid-19-crash/

NIKA
NIKA
Apr 1, 2020 3:55 PM
Reply to  Rachel Wild

So rejecting capitalism, corrupted by International Marxists, you want to introduce Universal Law, invented by…International Marxists.

NO, THANKS.

Rachel
Rachel
Apr 1, 2020 5:54 PM
Reply to  NIKA

Universal Law is the spiritual understanding of how the Universe works and is nothing to do with politics or economics…

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:05 PM

I’ve heard often times from the alt media that more and more people are “waking up”. That was before the coronavirus. Maybe finally this will make them “wake up” to the grim reality.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Mar 28, 2020 8:59 PM

Coronavirus the new 9/11 nothing more needs to be said.

Words Meaning
Words Meaning
Mar 29, 2020 4:43 AM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

“nothing more needs to be said.”

Do words matter?!

The commenter probably doesn’t mean it this way, but this expression is: Counterproductive, lazy, disrespectful and irresponsible. It makes no sense on a discussion board.

Time to ditch ‘traditional’ expressions that may hinder our ability to effect a change!

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:18 PM
Reply to  Words Meaning

It was me, that downvoted you 🙂

Until YOU are prepared to discuss WTC7 SCIENTIFICALLY, you, like everybody else, are just wasting my fucking time and everybody elses’!

Get it ? ! ENDLICH ??? It’s the same fucking people behind it all & in China, TODAY …
China, where the Rothschilds transferred their shipping business to, from the World Trade Centre, precisely two weeks before their ‘Hit’ on the WTC Complex !
WORDS MEANING WTF ?
Clearly your words don’t matter . . .

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 7:58 PM

This is complete and utter bollocks… Covid-19 patients in UK intensive care have 50% survival rate Not backed-up by any medical facts, and in the UK where medical stats are now showing a major downturn in the Frankenstein flu. If anything, this crisis is going to be the end of the presstitutes. Although that probably won’t make a blind bit of difference, because the psychopaths who rule us are now pulling down the veil on all civil liberties. The USA will be the first to descend into total anarchy, because it’s always been a nut job of a nation. The… Read more »

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 9:05 PM
Reply to  RobG

I agree with you Rob… What good is a prostitute if you have to stay 2 metres away…? “Oh, read me some poetry, lovey”…

Collateral damage, I guess…

But then you called my homeland “a nut job of a nation”…

How dare you go so easy on us…??

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 10:07 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Steve, I’ll clarify by saying that I don’t mean the American people, I mean the American government, who are corrupt beyond belief.

I’ve lived and worked in America (prior to 9/11), in the San Francisco area, and I’ve travelled all over North America from the southern states up to New York and all the way to Alaska.

Just about every American I met was kind and welcoming.

It’s not American citizens that are the problem.

It’s the American government that is perhaps the problem?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 11:25 PM
Reply to  RobG

I appreciate the clarification, Rob, as I was just having some fun with you…

I too have lived and worked in the SF Bay area (San Mateo, 1978-1990), one of my all-time favorite places to live and play…

And we both agree as to the source of the problem…

Kathy
Kathy
Mar 29, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

I saw the headline 50 percent survival rate and I wondered, Being as we are talking intensive care. At what percent would be normal survival rate of patients in intensive care without a Covid 19 prefix. The problem is that all information is questionable if it is not put into any verifiable context.

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Mar 29, 2020 4:37 AM
Reply to  RobG

The end of the presstitutes (and, by implication, the rise of real journalism)? Now, wouldn’t that make the world a better place!

Magggie
Magggie
Mar 28, 2020 7:19 PM

I’ll say one word, “Contagion.”

Art mimicking life, or life mimicking art?

Predictive Programming, no more no less.

I recorded this film last week and decided to watch it tonight. Can’t wait to see how it ends……….

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:44 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Thumbs up, but without wanting to sound conspiratorial, I tend to think of Hollywood these days as an arm of the US Deep State. (If I am wrong please correct.) I consider it’s output today to be American propaganda.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 7:51 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

http://www.spyculture.com

Tom Secker has masses of material exploring the collaboration between Hollywood and theDeep State.

Fantastic work!

Arby
Arby
Mar 28, 2020 7:54 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Tom Secker is an awful person. Read his article (on his website) attacking Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett. I’m sorry to see other ‘progressive’ sites pick up his work. (The Greanville Post, Mint Press News) He also came after me for defending Bartlett and Beeley.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Arby

Yes – true, I had forgotten about that. Thanks!

What do you think of his work though on Hollywood?

He also laid into Dave McGowan one time – who did really good work.

Maybe I’ll have to take another look at him and maybe reconsider recommending him.

Arby
Arby
Mar 29, 2020 7:54 AM
Reply to  clickkid

His book with co-author Matthew Alford (who I also had words with, but not on the same hostile level as with Secker) may or not be good. I was initially interested, mainly because, unlike, say Tricia Jenkins’s book about the CIA in Hollywood, which I’ve read, they added in the influence of the NSA on Hollywood. But I am so put off by Secker that I decided that I can live without it. (You can read our back and forth on my website. The article is titled “Tom Secker, The Professional Scam Artist”) And really, There’s been lots of books… Read more »

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 29, 2020 10:04 AM
Reply to  Arby

I should’ve just asked you outright for your blog name, but just refound it again after typing in the Tom Selleck article, thanks.
I’ve seen other articles about the Hollywood – MIC connection, and havn’t watched any big budget ‘film’ or TV series produced there for years.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 29, 2020 9:54 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

Correct John regards Hollywood. They’re basically a propaganda unit of the Pentagon and State Dept. I boycott Hollywood ‘films’ just like I boycott MSM. All part of the same Octopus.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 8:43 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Also watch 12 Monkeys (1995), brilliant movie by Terry Gilliam. (Although not everybody might like his style, I personally think he’s one of the all time great movie directors.)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:16 AM
Reply to  fred

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:28 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Good god, you really are into all this Hollywood shit, it seems 🙂

I distanced myself finally categorically from any further Hollywood ‘crapola’, the day the towers came down.

Why do you not only persist in watching, but advertise Brainwashing ?
Do you still have TV, too ?

Willem
Willem
Mar 28, 2020 7:09 PM

Some facts from the hospital where I work as epidemiologist with an interpretation. 1. Where last week the COVID PCR test was positive in about 10% of cases, that is now 20%. Interpretation: there is definitely something in the air and it is infecting people 2. The triage system in my hospital (that follows national guidelines) is very strict: pcr testing is only done in the most sick people. All the rest of symptomatic patients are sent home with a clinical diagnosis of Covid and need to self-isolate. Please note that for the case-fatality rates only people who are inside… Read more »

TheThinker
TheThinker
Mar 28, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  Willem

Willem, thank you for your update. It’s helpful to hear whats going on in such a measured manner from your perspective. Keep blowing off steam, I think that’s going to get a lot of people through, however we think this might end. Best wishes.

jim
jim
Mar 28, 2020 8:50 PM
Reply to  Willem

1. Where last week the COVID PCR test was positive in about 10% of cases, that is now 20%. Interpretation: there is definitely something in the air and it is infecting people

Why would it go up? Did the virus change? Did the test change? Or is this just fear mongering?

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 8:56 PM
Reply to  Willem

Willem

Interesting and illuminating frontline analysis, thanks.

With regard to point 1. Is it possible that this doubling of positive test cases might simply be that the triage staff (your point2) are being more selective, through knowledge and experience, about who they are submitting for testing? If you like, they are now more aware of likely Covid-19 cases from the clinically presented symptoms than they might have been at the outset where they might have adopted a more cautionary approach of testing more people “just to be on the safe side”? i.e. They are getting better at recognising the symptoms?

Willem
Willem
Mar 29, 2020 8:24 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

That is a good alternative explanation. As far as I know the triage system hasn’t changed, but it is becoming pretty clear that people with runny nose are allergic (and don’t need testing), while dry cough and fever is a clear symptom of this virus.

To be perfectly honest with you: you may be right. I need more data to be sure (so back to counting)

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 10:23 PM
Reply to  Willem

You haven’t said what hospital it is that you work in? I appreciate that you might not want to make public your specific work details, but maybe you can give us more regional details of where you are? (Vauxhall?)

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
Mar 28, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  Willem

It will end Willem – the question is is when and how many die or are scarred ( mentally and physically ) by the experience? Are we post – this virus ( there will be many more as I’m sure you know ) going to build our Brave New World or are we going to submit to the Elites who so far have offered us the World and given us only terrible soil in which to grow it? The Boy Scouts in the UK used to have a slogan ” Be Prepared! ” Unfortunately despite the slogan emanating from a… Read more »

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:27 AM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

the Duck Billed Platypus disappeared

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 6:55 PM

“The destruction of three skyscrapers in New York after the impact of two airliners…” (emphasis mine.)

…ah yes, the old magic airliner theory…

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:45 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

The destruction of two skyscrapers would never have been predicted, let alone three.

John Milton
John Milton
Mar 28, 2020 8:17 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

Yep. And most of the general public aren’t even aware of the collapse of building 7.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:28 AM
Reply to  John Milton

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 5:46 PM

Travellers who returned from the Jewel cruise ship have been locked up in a Sydney hotel (Swissotel)–by order from the ‘authorities’. The windows are locked with no fresh air and doors must be left locked when dealing with hotel staff. We’ve been told by health professionals that it is best for those going into isolation to stay in a well ventilated room. The Australian NSW Premier who is an utterly and certifiably brainless character responded: “It will not be perfect and foolproof .. but we also need to consider the health and safety of eight million residents in NSW. In… Read more »

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 7:46 PM
Reply to  Rise

“The Australian NSW Premier who is an utterly and certifiably brainless character”

Oh, you have politicians down under as well, I see.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 29, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

& thur’ infected: born with 5eyes. 😉

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Mar 28, 2020 5:26 PM

Panic, shock, and anxiety is activated in a number of ways. It doesn’t take a John B. Watson, or a B.F. Skinner to figure out what “emotional buttons” to push to spark nervousness unleashing mass fear. In 2001, the planet was stunned by the SIGHT of passenger jets hitting into the two tallest buildings in the world. If a major monument in the heart of New York City could be decimated then “nothing” was safe. Mass hysteria commenced, an enemy was found, and the public was told it needed to be protected. Safety could only be accomplished if personal freedoms… Read more »

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 7:23 PM

“Surveillance will be heightened and liberties previously taken for granted will be abolished. Banning and censorship will be commonplace. New concepts will be introduced to control, track, and digitalize the entire population. “

It’s not censorship it’s ‘internet rationing’:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/large-scale-internet-rationing-possible-experts-warn

…And here’s your prototype social credit score app, courtesy of tech startup Unacast:

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/how-governments-are-tracking-social-media-enforce-covid-19-quarantines

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Mar 28, 2020 7:29 PM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

Yes, all of that and more……You’ll be denied access to the most basic services. You’ll be forever held hostage to their demands……..

lynette chaplin
lynette chaplin
Mar 28, 2020 5:20 PM

I tried to reply to a comment but it didn’t go through. I have also had comments censored, I am so disappointed in off guardian, I am reminded of when the guardian censored my opinions.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 28, 2020 5:31 PM

You said this on 24 March and I reassured you then that none of your comments had been removed/spammed. Still, nothing has been removed/spammed.

We advise people to make copies of longer comments before hitting the submit button because they can go astray, and the risk of that is much higher when we are under DDoS attack – as we were all of Thursday and some of yesterday – because the server may be intermittently cutting out.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 30, 2020 12:09 AM

May I suggest that before you hit the button, ‘Post Comment’, you press “Command C’ as in COPY your words and store them anywhere you like. It’s a really good shortcut & discipline to avoid disappointment @your end and then you can continually re-submit, by pressing ‘Command V’ to paste/replace the missing text … Having tried & tested the most outlandish/outrageous of comments and having even tried imitating robots, I can honestly say that i have tested these columns & their moderators, like nobody else, (professionally, as a media & research analyst since the 80’s) and from various locations in… Read more »

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 30, 2020 3:38 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

Thanks – I think – for game testing our comments section so thoroughly 😉 Your post does make a refreshing change! Everyone is so paranoid atm, but who can blame them right now? Ta, A2

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Apr 1, 2020 7:36 PM
Reply to  Admin2

A genuine pleasure, I assure you: especially, the results 🙂 gave me hope & faith in your public commitments to not censor , even under the constant pressure of cyberattacks, along with various armies of controlled opposition, trolls & shills soiling the comments section, with targeted intentions & self-evident teamwork to ‘Tarnish’ the atmosphere of freedom to comment from the soul, of so many truly valuable contributors. I should add, results that confirmed that WordPress were compromised, too and I was so relieved and elated when OffG finally got your own servers, because, though it is highly complicated & expensive… Read more »

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 4:58 PM

What’s been the most heart-breaking about this whole thing is the reaction from 99% of friends and family. I have had two arguments, one with a friend of thirty years and one with a cousin who is more like a brother. Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian. I was a bit like that when I was younger too. Both are totally sold on this and both tried to treat my arguments with ridicule. What was also disturbing was the repetition of the various fear memes going around. One came from my… Read more »

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:24 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Very disturbing that you mention seeing a childrens’ play area bound up in crime scene tape…

Just yesterday I believe there was a California post about a visit to a long-familiar childrens’ playground, only now the attractions were all off-limits, wrapped in yellow crime scene tape…

😥… I got no words…

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 5:52 PM
Reply to  DavidW

David You are so right and this is happening every minute of the day up and down the country. I ask myself how long will it take, if indeed this is ever over, for young impressionable children to realise that not everyone is a threat to their life. I was approaching a mother with three children on my (now, not so…) regular dog walk a couple of days ago and she said to one of the children who had dared to wander across the wide pathway “Come here, don’t go near that lady” or words to that effect. At this… Read more »

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 8:31 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Hi Judy,

I really do hope that this is a short term situation. As you say If this continues the damage it could do to young children is truly frightening never mind the rest of the adult population.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Mar 29, 2020 2:43 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Talking of 6 feet, a lot of people clearly don’t know what 6 feet or 2 metres looks like. In the queue for my local Waitrose, people are standing 3 or 4 metres or more.

Reminds me of a joke (told in my presence by a woman):

“Why can’t a woman park a car?”
“Because for years and years and years, they’ve been told by men that this is 6 inches”.
(holds up thumb and finger about an inch and a half apart).

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 29, 2020 5:34 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

😀

Just suggest to anyone not sure how long 2 metres is that they should imagine Peter Crouch lying down! That was Victoria Derbyshire’s way of explaining it to ‘the plebs’.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 11:06 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Heh. Nearly got into a fight at the Waitrose queue this afternoon. After I joined the back of the queue, the chap in front of me (20s, beard, hoodie, shorts, mobile phone), kept looking round. Happily (or so I thought), I was about 8’-10’ away from him. “Wanna keep your distance !” he snapped. “Do you know how far 2 meters is ?” I asked. “No harm in staying further away !” he shouted. Giving up on mature discussion, I blew him a kiss. Strangely, he seemed to get even more upset then. But remembered, just in time, that trying… Read more »

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 29, 2020 11:47 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Nice one, John! 😀 Keep ’em coming. I’m sure as the days go by there will be plenty more tales to tell! Admin probably need to set up a new thread dedicated to coronavirus anecdotes. 😉 Or may be someone could compile a book. I was walking down a narrow passageway today, shrubs each side, probably about 7 ft wide, and a young couple pushing a pushchair were coming the other way. I thought ‘This’ll be interesting”. They dutifully stepped as far over as they could but I noticed that they both turned their faces towards the hedgerow, lips pursed… Read more »

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
Mar 28, 2020 6:39 PM
Reply to  DavidW

My brother won’t talk to me. I sent him links from a Swiss doctor who is questioning the entire surreal situation. I always thought I was the crazy one, on the fringes of society, now I’m not so sure. I am beginning to think 🤔 I am sane.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 7:25 PM

The society is designed to make you feel crazy if you don’t adapt and instead of questioning the world you spend life questioning yourself … Until now you see who’s really crazy. Be grateful. We have control over our minds..

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 8:11 PM

In a mad world, only the mad are sane.

– Akira Kirosawa.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Kurosawa

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 7:27 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Yes it’s sad David but I have learned not to come out and state skepticism. There is really no point. I’ve been through arguments when this whole thing started up and I just stopped. Nevertheless there are little signs of cynicism sometimes from the most unlikely places. There is a guy in our work who is a real salt-of-the-earth guy. Not what you’d call academically bright. Not good with words. But he has sometimes astonished me with his astuteness. A few years back on the build up to an election while everyone was disputing over which party to vote in,… Read more »

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:44 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I’ve adopted the habit, as I walk past the long lines of socially-distanced people outside of supermarkets, of saying loudly “this is ridiculous — it’s all a hoax.” At least the minority of people still capable of independent thought will see that they’re not completely alone. As for the rest of them, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what they think of me. If they want to report me to the secret police for thoughtcrime, let them try.

Neddal
Neddal
Mar 28, 2020 7:36 PM
Reply to  DavidW

https://jods.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/jyzg7j6x A profoundly important introduction to this recent (~10 year old) evolutionary transformation of the art and science of “Public Relations” (i.e., Propaganda) field and practices. It is worth noting however, the USSR hardly deserve the credit for this “invention” given the venerated traditions and extensive histories of “Unconventional Warfare” doctrines as applied by Western as well as Eastern imperialism generally (US, British, French, Russian, Portuguese, Chines, Japanese, Turkic, Ottoman, Islamic, Persian,…, Roman,…etc.). A simplified outline of typical elements and steps… https://lageneralista.com/participatory-propaganda-a-model/ ….and an excellent breakdown and detailed analysis of specific case-studies. https://lageneralista.com/participatory-propaganda-in-7-simple-steps/

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 7:56 PM
Reply to  DavidW

” Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian”

Thanks for making me smile.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 28, 2020 8:09 PM
Reply to  DavidW

You have my sympathy. I personally find it best to say nothing to believers. Just simply observe them and listen without comment. If you have any sympathisers then speak to them. My parents who are 77 seem to be quite skeptical, or at least they are open to conversation. I’m not so sure about other members of my family. I am told one of my sisters is a believer. I haven’t spoken to her and I don’t intend to. Everyone is right in their own mind. It is very difficult to dislodge ideas from people’s minds once they have taken… Read more »

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 9:03 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Yes these people need our understanding and love. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have swallowed this whole. People are terrified.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:46 AM
Reply to  DavidW

on the contrary, they need our contempt and scorn. did they learn nothing from the decades-long Terror War???

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 10:23 PM
Reply to  DavidW

Thanks David, for posting that moving description of your experiences the last few days.

I hope you’ll continue to comment regularly on that.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 2:52 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I had a stoned paranoid vison of the future in the festival gardens the other day. A children’s play area had been taped up like some crime scene with city watch tape and a Crime stoppers number.

It sure would be tragic if some anarchist subversive were to pull down all that police-state crap and throw it in a garbage bin, while nobody was looking. What might people do, if their lives weren’t directed in the smallest details, by the Proper Authorities?

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 4:52 PM

What’s been the most heart-breaking about this whole thing is the resection from nearly 99% of friends and family. I have had two arguments, one with a friend of thirty years and one with a cousin who is more like a brother. Both are working class men who get satisfaction from being able to read the Guardian. I was a bit like that when I was younger too. Both are totally sold on this and both tried to treat my arguments with ridicule. What was also disturbing was the repetition of the various fear memes going around. One came from… Read more »

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:05 PM
Reply to  DavidW

I have met/passed/talked to relatively small numbers of people going on walks in glorious spring sunshine on the edge of London. As you say, nature is waking up, the first bird chicks were taking their first swim in the Grand Union Canal, birdsong is everywhere in the mornings and we even have blossom starting to appear on some fruit trees. I have to say that pedestrian walkways have not been designed with social distancing in mind. Nor have canal towpaths. They were designed to be as wide as a horse, not as long as a horse. There are also websites… Read more »

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 7:21 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

They obviously don’t like attempts to seem that anyone would invalidate their egocentric psychotic break from reality.

How dare you not let me enjoy being mentally tortured!!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 8:55 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

But you ARE a ‘climate denier’ Rhys. How’s your sense of smell going?

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 9:08 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Just about to cancelling my membership. The Labour Party is owned by the establishment. Keir Starmer is a joke which I don’t suppose is news to anyone here. I was honestly taken in by the Corbyn thing. We live and learn.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:24 PM

Going by the posts describing the mounting sense of dread, this song seems appropriate:

The only way you know she’s there
Is the subtle flavor in the air
Getting hard to breathe
Hard to believe in anything at all
But fear

Piers G Robinson
Piers G Robinson
Mar 28, 2020 4:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

PG is a favourite of mine 🙂

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 8:13 PM

Me too. I saw him back in 1980 just before he released his third album and he was giving us a preview of the it. I was overawed by “Biko” but I didn’t know what the words were. I thought he was singing, “All those people”!

Piers Robinson
Piers Robinson
Mar 30, 2020 10:26 AM
Reply to  George Mc

ha 🙂 I remember first thinking Kate bush on ‘Games without frontiers’ was singing ‘we’re so happy now’ rather than ‘jeux sans frontier’ 🙂

DavidW
DavidW
Mar 28, 2020 8:36 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Gabriel was one of my heroes growing up. I wasn’t old enough to see him at his peak. I managed to see him on his So tour which was a little disappointing.

Piers Robinson
Piers Robinson
Mar 30, 2020 10:29 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I remember having his third album in an A-level English class and my teacher said, I remember him when he had long hair and led genesis … I think she believed his Genesis days were his peak 🙂 🙂

Arby
Arby
Mar 28, 2020 4:12 PM

“It is very likely, however, that the dangers posed by the potential exploitation of Corona for broader political, economic and societal objectives latter far outweigh the immediate threat to life and health from the virus.” Other experts are more certain that measures being put in place to do with covid 19 are completely wrong and unnecessary.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 3:48 PM

I went out for the very short walk round the block we are allowed here. As I walk normally and dont make detours to avoid people, one lady who had not expected me to just walk passed her on the pavement, had terror in her eyes: I have never seen such terror in anyone’s eyes, as though I was some mass murder let loose about to hack her to death. That terror is what terrifies me. People are becoming not inhuman but non-human, non-living creatures (since I doubt living creatures of the same species feel such terror for each other… Read more »

Jane
Jane
Mar 28, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  anita

I know what you mean. On my way to the shop (with my attestation timed and dated) I passed a man whom I know by sight and we always say hello. He was wearing blue rubber gloves. He possibly thought I was veering towards him – I was about two meters away – and he actually raised his blue-gloved hand and wagged his finger at me, as much as to say, Back, Back. I had to think of deep blue oceans all the way to the shop.

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 8:45 AM
Reply to  Jane

we always say hello.

in the unlikely event that “normality” ever returns, perhaps you’ll then save your greetings for people more deserving of them.

f*** these moronic a**holes. after two decades of fake Terror War, the FIRST question people should ask themselves about an event like this, is “does this story have any demonstrable connection with objective reality?” at this extremely late date, only drooling idiots would fail to wonder.

Jane
Jane
Mar 29, 2020 9:27 AM
Reply to  milosevic

I must admit I’ve already decided to take Mr Blue-Gloves off my hello list. On the same journey to the shops I also met a group of four young women, walking four abreast. One moved in front of the others when she saw me, probably because she thought I might react like Blue-Gloves, but as we passed we all said hello and smiled brightly. There was a sense of complicity about it.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 30, 2020 12:03 AM
Reply to  Jane

Yesterday, I was walking my dog down a paved disused railway sidings by a housing estate. There was a group of four harmless teenagers sitting and chatting on the railings up the slope to the estate and I saw they had a worried expression on their faces, obviously fearing I was going to reprimand them or report them. Being cruel ( 😀 )I thought I’ll keep them wondering. Five minutes later, on my return, they were still there looking uneasy. Anyway, my dog was off her lead and she ran over to them and they stroked her (always a good… Read more »

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 4:02 PM
Reply to  anita

Poor woman.

The product of relentless stimulation of her fight or flight response.

How do reassure someone when its illegal now to be in a strangers close vicinity?

The agenda pushers mist be rolling around laughing scaring people into submission.

RobG
RobG
Mar 28, 2020 4:32 PM
Reply to  anita

This is not happening in my part (of very rural) south west France. Everyone is very friendly towards each other, except of course none of the usual kisses and handshakes. Everyone is helping out each other. There is no panic whatsoever.

This comes on top of the explosive interview that Professor Christian Perronne has recently given to a French MSM news channel…

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-france-is-hiding-a-cheap-and-tested-virus-cure/

In times like this we cannot rely on totally corrupt governments. We have to stay calm and collected and rely on each other.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 5:57 PM
Reply to  RobG

Indeed thats good to know… Its not like this where I am… One neighbour realises there is something deeply wrong with what is going on, and so he phoned. But everyone has been made to be so afraid of one other, that he is unable to go further. It is this fear that is frightening because it will leave deep scars. I for one wont be able to remain on former terms with those who lost their basic humanity. My friends in England tell me, people are much more friendly than they ever were with each other in his neighbourhood,… Read more »

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 29, 2020 8:46 AM
Reply to  anita

I for one wont be able to remain on former terms with those who lost their basic humanity.

nor should you.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 9:03 PM
Reply to  RobG

That Escobar piece is EXPLOSIVE. Once again, as one commenter stated, a cabal of ‘Irish’ conspirators are collaborating to take advantage of a disaster, and grab control of what appears to be an highly effective treatment, for their own nepotistic profit and benefit.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 28, 2020 5:59 PM
Reply to  anita

anita

You rebel, you! 😉 There’ll be a knock at your door soon!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  anita

Were you wearing a face-mask? In East Asia everyone, more or less, wears a mask in winter, to reduce the risk of contaminating others, and being contaminated oneself. And would it be such an affront to your ambulatory non-deviation to make a slight detour around others, just in case they are the terrifiable type?

paul
paul
Mar 29, 2020 12:48 AM

There are no face masks for sale anywhere in the UK.
I think you can get them on e bay for about £40 each.
Quite reasonable, when you think they take 2-3p to produce.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 4:00 AM
Reply to  paul

You can make your own.

anita
anita
Mar 28, 2020 9:41 PM
Reply to  anita

To be extremely precise it was an intersection, the street she was on was sunny, the one I was on (perpendicular) to hers was in the shadows and cold. I had passed the intersection continuing on my street, and then thought it would be nicer to walk in the sun and turn into the street she was on, so returned towards the intersection, at about the same time she reached the intersection, and we crossed one other… So it wasnt even as though I had purposefully gone towards her to deliberately scare her…

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Mar 28, 2020 3:45 PM

The combination of fear and stupidity is a powerful drug. Americans are so scared, they’re not noticing that their quisling Congress has AGAIN bailed out those TBTF Wall Street casinos and that the FED is assuming nearly all bad corporate debt, like subprime auto and mortgage loans, the same BS that they used to blow up the economy in 2009.

Like the comedian WC Fields was fond of saying, “Never give a sucker an even break.”

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:30 PM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

Ah, Greg, but you forgot to mention the newly legalized, up-and-operating SPV’s… The Fed is in full ‘screw you middle class’ mode…

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 28, 2020 3:40 PM

The word “unprecedented” is incessantly thrown around in relation to the coronavirus. But there is nothing unprecedented about a virus. We, our species, have lived with viruses throughout our history. However, the response to the virus is, in my experience, unprecedented. In a matter of days, the elite have discarded our rights and trampled upon our liberties. They have given themselves arbitrary power to do anything, just so long as it can be plausibly wrapped in the rhetoric. They have trashed the economy. And instituted an entirely new set of social norms. They have done all this in the face… Read more »

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 28, 2020 4:56 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I agree Steve. But should people who are so easily frightened be anywhere near deciding public policy ? 🙂

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 29, 2020 10:48 AM
Reply to  JohnB

If not the people, then who is to decide public policy? That’s not a rhetorical question. I really would like to know the answer.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 29, 2020 12:26 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Has always been the tough question. 🙂 Personally, I lean towards a constitutional republic, where the people decide but under a framework that is less subject to short term or political influences.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 30, 2020 12:34 PM
Reply to  JohnB

JohnB But who would decide on the constitution? And if the answer is the people, why would they want to limit their own ability to make future decisions?

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 30, 2020 1:00 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

The answer is indeed the people.

Constitutions should be based on principles – free speech, free press, freedom of assembly, right to bear arms, freedom of religion, etc.

Limiting future decisions is crucial because of bad people, special interest groups, and what could be called ‘fashion’.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Mar 30, 2020 3:09 PM
Reply to  JohnB

JohnB Your answer seems self contradictory. First, you assert the people should decide what the constitution should be. Then you assert what the constitution should be – clearly undermining your first assertion. Then you justify your assertion that the people should not be allowed to determine the constitution by pointing out that the people might make bad decisions. You strike me as about as committed to democracy as Plato.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 31, 2020 1:15 AM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Your answer seems self contradictory. First, you assert the people should decide what the constitution should be. Then you assert what the constitution should be – clearly undermining your first assertion. Principles chosen by the people. I gave some examples. How this undermines anything goodness only knows. Then you justify your assertion that the people should not be allowed to determine the constitution by pointing out that the people might make bad decisions. Say what ? (At least I know you haven’t been down the pub, Steve. 🙂 ). Of course, I didn’t say any such thing. People define a… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:17 PM

Britain’s housing market is frozen: “The edict affects all transactions, blocking all transfers of title until further notice, while also banning evictions, it’s basically forcing the entire county to stay put in whatever housing situation they have been living in. For those who don’t have permanent housing arrangements, it’s presumably been a struggle. But that’s a relatively small slice of the population. This is about all prospective homebuyers in the UK can do right now: “You can speak to estate agents over the phone and they will be able to give you general advice about the local property market and… Read more »

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:36 PM
Reply to  clickkid

…And everything to do with realigning (i.e.relocating) the population?

The long anticipated run on banks can’t be far off now…

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:01 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Run on your bank, if you can, before the ‘bail-ins’ begin.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 3:11 PM

Here, from Dr. Wodarg, a chart of the numbers of patients with “Affection of the respiratory system” in Germany – compating the cases of the last yeard:
comment image

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Thanks Jörg – can you get me the link to that please?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:30 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I mean the link directly at the RKI. I can’t find it on Wodarg’s Website.

Cheers!

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  clickkid

@clickkid
On the page:
https://edoc.rki.de/handle/176904/6562
of the Robert Koch institut (RKI) you’ ll find this link to download a pdf:
https://edoc.rki.de/bitstream/handle/176904/6562/Influenza_Wochenbericht_KW12_2020.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

In this pdf called “Influenza-Wochenbericht Kalenderwoche 12/2020 (14.3. bis 20.3.2020)” You’ll find that chart.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 5:50 PM
Reply to  clickkid
SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:19 PM
Reply to  Joerg

So, if I’m reading this graph right, in week 12 of 2020, respiratory ailments in Germany were the lowest they’ve been in 4 years (0.5% of the population)…?

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Figures are pretty similar in the UK: 2017 and 2018 both much higher than 2020 up to the end of week 12.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 6:09 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Germany has very atypical figures for Covid19: plenty of cases, but almost no deaths. Italy and Spain are completely the opposite, very high ratios of deaths to cases.

Geoffrey Skoll
Geoffrey Skoll
Mar 28, 2020 7:13 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

It’s how the counting is done (and per Uncle Joe Stalin, who does he counting). Hardly anybody dies from flu (feel shitty for 3 weeks, not well for 4-5 weeks, then OK). People die from CO-MORBID conditions. That means especially poor elderly, minorities . . .etc. In other words, the redundant and expendable die. Those who can still work for the profit of the owners live until they die. The Germans found this strategy effective in the camps. It worked then; why not now?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  Geoffrey Skoll

Jeez, Geoff, your post got darker with each sentence… I happen to fit under your category of ‘redundant and expendable’… So, grazie for that… 😖

I’m over 65, retired (hey, bro, I paid my societal dues for 45 some years), and happy in my own skin… And yes, damn it, I can be redundant (I like to think it’s genetic)… But please, let’s not compare Auschwitz with Covid-19… And please don’t throw me out with the bath water…

Geoffrey Skoll
Geoffrey Skoll
Mar 29, 2020 2:36 PM
Reply to  Geoffrey Skoll

I did not compare current policies to Auschwitz because that was a death camp, not a concentration camp. Moreover, the general policy of treating surplus populations as expendable has been widespread through history. In the work-concentration camps, the inmates worked until they died with no concern about them. The camps had a never ending supply. Triage is already being practiced in France and several US states.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:14 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Is corona included in these numbers? (Or do they treat corona as something different?)
If it’s not included this does not tell us very much.

Joerg
Joerg
Mar 28, 2020 10:04 PM
Reply to  fred

The answer is: YES. There are 4 groups of viruses responsible for respiratory diseases, or, if you want: for our “flu seasons”: Influenza-A, Influenza-B, Corona viruses and a fourth group, I can’t remember the name of at the moment.

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Mar 28, 2020 3:02 PM

Alien to Earthling

“Alien: “Why do humans measure infinity using unreliable rulers?”

Human: (About 3,000 years later) “Erm… So we have someone else to blame when we screw up.”

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 3:36 PM

Alien: Why does the government gives people fines for stealing a sandwich or breaching quarantine rules, but gives trillions of dollars to, and shower with medals, those who make bombs weighing 10 tons and blow innocent people into blood soaked smithereens?

Alien: (waiting for answer)

Alien – 10 years later: (still waiting for answer)

Alien – 100 years later: (still waiting for answer)

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Mar 29, 2020 12:34 AM
Reply to  Rise

Hello Rise, The faulty ruler was used for punishment when I was in “grade” school… The measure of every damn thing humans need to survive is equally faulty… Do we need bombs to survive? I had a friend who yanked the ruler away from our teacher one day and broke it in half. Some students laughed, some stared in awe, some just cowered. He thanked the principal for throwing him out of school. We were friends for many years… I’ve never trusted paunchy weaklings in over stuffed suits instructing me about anything… “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:46 PM

Beware of nonsense such as this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/fauci-italy-hit-very-badly-covid-19-due-prevalence-chinese-tourists

Fauci is now saying that Italy has been so ‘hard hit’, because of all those Chinese tourists.

There’s just one problem – those tourists visit Rome, Florence and Venice, not the industrial suburbs of Milan and the surrounding dormitory towns.

Thailand and Vietnam also receive many more Chinese tourists than Italy.

Utter bullshit!

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Have you noticed how Fauci no longer grimaces and frowns (in the background) at Trump every time he opens his mouth…?

Fauci has become the good little soldier…
And any creditability he might have once had (if ever) is now gone forever… Cross him off the list, or add him to the list, depending on how you’re keeping score at home…

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I have had my suspicions about zerohedge. Consider this article:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/covid-19-exponential-threat-why-global-politicians-business-leaders-must-act-now

If anything, it is even more nihilistic than most of these doom mongering pieces. But I note the curious subtitle: “Why Global Politicians & Business Leaders Must Act Now” Since it seemed clear to me that global politicians and business leaders were unlikely to even read it and the only ones who did would be folks like myself who could do nothing, I wondered what the point of the link to this article was other than create a sense of despair.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 5:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Sadly, I read it…
The title has nothing to do with the flawed content…
And you are right, no global politician or business leader would bother to read this… Just a slap like me…

And now I’m really bummed out…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 8:05 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

I have read ZH since it started. The financial analysis is very good.

However, the last couple of years they have been Publishing a lot from 2 sources:

1. Gatestone Institute – anti-migrant, divide-and-rule stuff

2. Epoch Times – anti China.

The China-baiting the last couple of months has been unbearable.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 8:40 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Thanks, Kid…!
You seem to often pop up at just the right time…😉

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:11 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Epoch Times-CIA created and financed, compradore, vermin. This is ever more clearly a casus belli being created for war with China.

fred
fred
Mar 28, 2020 9:51 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Zerohedge is controlled opposition. (Some truth, some propaganda)
Also as far as I know they’ve always been doomsayers.
Also a while back (the one time I checked, I usually never go there anymore) they were promoting some false story, I forgot which one (they’ve been publishing A TON of different stories or theories, I just checked with a search engine to try to find the specific one but there are too many and I forgot). All their sources went to one specific website, and all the sources from that one specific website went to…. themselves!

jasmoran66
jasmoran66
Mar 29, 2020 4:00 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Clicks. And unfortunately, I was one of those clicks.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 28, 2020 10:09 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s all part and parcel of the effort to use the pandemic as a casus belli for the long-planned war on China. Years of subversion, terrorism, economic warfare etc, have failed to ‘..bring China down’ and ensure continued global hegemony by the ‘Gods Upon the Earth’ of the ‘Judeo-Christian’ West, so biowarfare (ie African Swine Fever, several bird flus and CoVid19)was tried, and, now, massive blame-shifting and frankly racist hate propaganda, have proceeded. This is the end of 500 years of Western dominance of the world, and countless genocides, aggressions and economic pillaging, one way or another.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 2:16 PM

Nice to see Piers Robinson being published here. Maybe Off -G will consider doing the same for Craig Murray and other experts such as Richard Murphy on the current economic response to the virus. Anyway, in expectation of a return of the guardianbollox article this weekend here is yet another (noncorona but certainly a WoT related) article that slavers its chops of Starmer, appointed by Blair as head of the CPS in expectation of some favour in the future, becoming the next Labour leader and a return to the centerist Neo Liberal consensus and escape from the traditional labour philosophy… Read more »

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 4:02 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Do the right thing Off-G and all you readers as the Martial Law powers are tested this week

Good advice. We should definitely try doing the right thing in future. Much better than our usual plan. Thank you.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 4:33 PM
Reply to  Admin1

Oh, looks like someone got up on the wrong side of their lockdown bed this morning, eh admin…? 😉

That’s the testiest friendly Off-G comment I’ve seen to date… C’mon… Groanin was just groaning… This is what he does (and he does it well)…

Most of us appreciate the platform, appreciate the open-door policy, and the daily insightful articles…

I’ve always felt comfortable here, knowing someone’s had my back, including you hard-working admins…

‘Nuff said…

Nassah
Nassah
Mar 28, 2020 4:16 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

We need to rebuild the Left and especially the Labour Party. That means working from the ground up all round the country, not just the capital. The Guardian has never been for the people, and this can be seen when you look into the newspapers history, who owned it, and what stance they took on the monumental issues of the day, such as slavery. The Guardian therefore is in no position to take the moral high ground.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 2:11 PM

I wrote a response to this article this morning when it first appeared about 2.30 am. I’m very sorry to see it has been censored. I admit it attacked what I see as a shift to Alt Right thinking by aping Bolsonaro, Trump and Johnson. The site bellyaches about media manipulation but doesn’t hesitate to use the same tactics. Quite an eye opener!

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  Paul

Well try it again then.

Look, I very probably won’t agree with it, but I want to hear what you’ve got to say.

So – out with it please.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 2:34 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s in this sites archives I imagine or maybe they delete all references? I don’t have a copy. Ask Admin?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:50 PM
Reply to  Paul

Hello Admin, have you got Paul’s comment somewhere please?

@Paul,

Can’t you get at least the gist of your argument into a few lines?

I don’t believe anything was ‘censored’

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 2:59 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Just checked in the spam folder and in pending. Sorry, no trace of that comment. Sometimes they just go astray. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It’s hard to accept I agree. I was thrown off the Guardian in 2016 for calling into question Mr Freeland’s integrity, an irony of sorts! I’ve been putting my case which is that there is a dangerous conflation of issues about Govt opportunism and media hysteria put together with whether or not there is a nasty bug going around or not and whether the Govt should concentrate on saving lives or keeping workers at their machines to preserve as much as possible the previous system. I think it is unremarkable that Govts are taking huge liberties (literally) to contain dissent;… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:48 PM
Reply to  Paul

Just because Trump and/or Bolsanaro apparently agree or disagree with a particular viewpoint has no influence on whether I accept or reject that viewpoint. I judge it on its own merits – as it should be judged. You raise the point about deaths in London hospitals. I don’t doubt that those deaths occurred. The important question in the context of this discussion is; What was the cause of death? I’d encourage you to take a look at the graph posted above by Jörg, which comes from the RKI – Germany’s CDC. It shows – up until a few days ago… Read more »

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:53 PM
Reply to  clickkid

You mean these deaths might be some other disease? Surprised the medics haven’t spotted that the patients are breathing fine but dying of something else. Germany has a lower death rate because it has a functioning medical system and their government cornered the best deals on equipment; apparently we lost the email about it? Does that help us at the moment, you seem to suggest it does?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 4:22 PM
Reply to  Paul

“You mean these deaths might be some other disease?”

Since the alleged symptoms of covid-19 are virtually identical tp pneumonia, then yes, that is quite possible.

Germany:

I am not referring t the death rate.

I am referring to the incidence of acute respiratory illness – which aould include covid-19. The incidence is obviously independent of how well-equipped hospitals are.

Go look at it and then read the following sentence again please.

‘The incidence of acute respiratory illness in Germany up until 20th March was, according to the Robert Koch Institut, the lowest for the time of year since 2016’

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:40 PM
Reply to  clickkid

But so what? It has no relevance to Londoners this next couple of weeks – does it?

Tony
Tony
Mar 28, 2020 9:06 PM
Reply to  Paul

Paul, not coming up with useful, factual info whilst posting opinions is fine. Posting unsubstantiated scaremongering with no facts is not fine. Fuck off. We talk sense here. Take your fucking nonsense to the comments sections on Yahoo and suchlike, where you belong.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 9:34 PM
Reply to  Tony

You make your point in a classic ‘denial’ outrage that somebody might have a different view.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Mar 29, 2020 12:18 AM
Reply to  Paul

Slinging matches seem so important when you’re in it, but so boring to the outsider. Please try not to give into frustration on this or any other thread. Make some good points, and go in peace. Thanks

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 3:05 PM
Reply to  Paul

The figures show no abnormal death spike in Europe as yet. Covid19 may well be killing some people, as are some flu strains, and other viral agents, but none of them in apparently remarkable numbers to date.

The comment you are having difficulty locating is the first one posted on this article – ie the last one on the list, due to them being shown by default in reverse chronological order.

Now please stop claiming to be censored while you are simultaneously spamming uninformed fear memes to your heart’s content.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:47 PM
Reply to  Admin1

And the figures in London, nothing unusual?

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 28, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  Paul

Average UK deaths are somewhere between 1500 and 1800 a day. Taking London as approx an eighth of the population, they seem on the low side.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:53 PM
Reply to  Paul

“Virus denying is going to get more difficult over the next couple of weeks but many minds seem closed. I’ve always avoided like the plague (get it?) cults and factions of any description”

You say you avoid cults, but then you employ the expression ‘Virus denying’.

This use of the word ‘denying’ is quasi-religious, and is also employed in other contexts – see climate change.

It implies that the subject in question is an article of faith, that anyone who questions it is evil, and is an attempt to shut down rational discussion.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:57 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Just to add:

It is of course possible that, as you say, in a few weeks it will turn out that we are wrong (althought doubt that) and that we will have to reconsider.

However, if you wish to argue your point, then you must do that on the basis of evidence which exists already, and not on the basis of evidence which could possibly exist at some future time.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  clickkid

If you followed your own advice you’d have nothing to say

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:43 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Frankly this is nonsense wrapped up in pretension

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 3:41 PM
Reply to  Paul

Your post is the first or one ofthe first on this article – is thatthe one you mean?

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:45 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

When I posted it at approximately 2.35 am today and it appeared as item one but as you will know that won’t always be the position once it’s accepted and published. Why do you ask? You saw it maybe?

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 4:21 PM
Reply to  Paul
Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Yes that looks like it and the timing is right. I recall it differently but then a post at that time of night isn’t best remembered. So why did it disappear I wonder? And who put it back?

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 28, 2020 4:49 PM
Reply to  Paul

It didn’t disappear, you just couldn’t find it. Now stop spamming this thread with fake complaints and single sentence ad hom or we will be forced to actually handle your output like spam.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 5:22 PM
Reply to  Admin1

That’s true I’m afraid. But requiring at least two sentences is as strange as some of the Govt’s instructions. I’ll do my best to behave however. The Guardian makes you sign detailed pledges if you want to reapply for admission. I declined the invitation as it required making a personal apology to Johnathan F.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Thank you!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 5:28 PM
Reply to  Paul

You are welcome. I may argue to the nth degree with anyone here – but I will always respect their right to post whatever rubbish they believe – it’s more fun letting them be raised by their petards😉 Regardless of what anyone thinks of Off-G, I haven’t yet seen them actually deleting or barring anyone in line with their stated raison d’etre. Trust me . I expect to be one of the first if they start! You can easily check by reversing the display order to show oldest first. And certainly by refreshing your browser first when in doubt. Or… Read more »

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 6:31 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

I’m afraid I made a mistake here as I’d forgotten the reverse order of posts. Very foolish! Thanks for your help.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 28, 2020 4:50 PM
Reply to  Paul

I always type my posts into a word document first, then copy paste.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 3:23 PM
Reply to  Paul

I have seen nothing here glorifying bail-outs of banks, huge corporations etc. I have seen nothing promoting deforestation, promoting fracking, China- and Russia-Bashing. I have seen nothing supporting sanctions against Venezuela and Iran, let alone calling for a $15m bounty on Maduro’s head. It is also, as a mature political person, possible to agree occasionally with your political opponents. I agree with Boris Johnson about honouring the Brexit referendum result. I agree with Donald Trump that Hillary Clinton promising ‘to nuke Russia’ as an election pledge in 2016 was not exactly consonant with being the Commander in Chief. And I… Read more »

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:34 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Well at least you share Bolsonaro’s misogyny!

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  Paul

Paul,

what do you mean when you say ‘misogyny’?

File this question under ‘Newspeak’.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:57 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Dislike or contempt of or prejudice against women and a horror of their bodies in extreme cases. It’s often seen in arguments that have nothing to do with sexuality eg ‘I saw this candidate like an ugly fat whore’ etc. If the cap fits…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 8:22 PM
Reply to  Paul

That’s called the use of metaphor Paul, and sexual metaphors are particularly powerful.

The comment you were referring to was not directed against all women.

Those who would police our speech prefer Greek and Latin derived words such as the various political phobias amd ‘misogyny’, because it makes it sound as if they are diagnosing a medical condition.

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Sorry to hear you are plagued with images of whores, big hanging tits and big arses. The normal advice that you should get out more isn’t appropriate but Hey! If it’s a huge confidence trick you can! Call some mates around telling them to bring beer and discuss these whores at length, it might get it out of your system.

paul
paul
Mar 31, 2020 5:45 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

What are you complaining about, R? You can have a dogshit sandwich or a catshit sandwich. What more do you want? Some people are never satisfied.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:35 PM
Reply to  Paul

I don’t know if you’re still here, Paul, but I just found and read a ‘Paul’ post from 2:25am, which was replied to by Paul2…
Not sure if that’s the missing (“censored”) post in question…

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 3:47 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Oh really! Can you please send it on if possible?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:56 PM
Reply to  Paul

Sorry, my friend, but you’re talking to a dinosaur… No idea how to do that (and proud of it! lol)

I scrolled down, hit ‘load more’ a few times, kept my eye on the posts’ times, and… Voila! There you were at the very bottom…

Better get to scrolling…

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:31 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Thanks, I’ll try that. I’m glad you saw it though because whenever I state a plain fact I’m immediately accused of making it up and lying in my desperation to further a ‘Sentimental Conspiracy’ against strong Leaders like Trump and Johnson. Yesterday posters were convinced I’d invented a friend in a coma on a ventilation machine. The smugness of these armchair doctors is infuriating. One fellow said my friend would be fine ‘because they’ve given him a ventilator’ which they wouldn’t do if he was going to snuff it; an argument that seems to accept some aren’t given ventilators because… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:54 PM

Pepe Escobar:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-why-france-hiding-cheap-and-tested-virus-cure

Snippet:

“•On January 13, Agnes Buzyn, still France’s Health Minister, classifies chloroquine as a “poisonous substance,” from now on only available by prescription. An astonishing move, considering that it has been sold off the shelf in France for half a century”

Foreknowledge?

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 1:46 PM

In Australia, as of 25 March, we still have very low community transmission of this virus. The cases we are seeing are overwhelmingly in those who are returned travellers and in their contacts. The quote is by a senior australian government official. The government is allowing Covid-19 testing ONLY if someone travelled overseas or came into contact with a confirmed case. Other, in the community, people -with symptoms- are NOT ALLOWED (forbidden?) to have the test done. So, the government dictates the rule of testing only cohort X for infection, and then, government officials spring up on TV to REVEAL:… Read more »

Louis N. Proyect
Louis N. Proyect
Mar 28, 2020 1:16 PM

It was inevitable that a chemical attack “false flag” conspiracy-monger would end up as a coronavirus conspiracy-monger.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 28, 2020 1:27 PM

So, Louis, do you swallow these miracle survivor stories from sufferers of the deadly COVID-19? I bet you do, you either everywhere-you-turn controlled opposition person or else very sad believer. https://youtu.be/8QGXpeo2V9w Heads up, Louis, in case you’re not controlled opposition. False flag is a propaganda term. False flags are not really in the power elite’s MO. They just do out-and-out psyops. No need to get their hands dirty killing their own citizens, it’s all done with smoke’n’mirrors. If they can make us believe 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters hijacked four planes yada yada they can certainly make us believe 3,000… Read more »

Victor G.
Victor G.
Mar 28, 2020 2:17 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Bologna

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 2:18 PM

Have a good read of Edward Berneys Propaganda 1928. You’ll see what category you fall into.

andy ellis
andy ellis
Mar 28, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

Everyone should read Bernays ” Propaganda “. Nothing will shock you after reading it. The man was years ahead of the game.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Mar 28, 2020 3:40 PM
Reply to  andy ellis

He created the game…

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:30 PM

You often find the comment in mainstream media that someone who is into one ‘conspiracy theory’ is into others as well. This is then presented as some kind of personality defect. The reason for this phenomenon is quite simple. A great deal of resistance to the acceptance of a ‘conspiracy theory’ is attributable to a person thinking of his government or other established authority: “They wouldn’t do that, would they”? So, you see,once someone has overcome this conditioned emotional obstacle to the acceptance of one ‘conspiracy theory’, then it is no longer there to hinder that person in the rational… Read more »

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 3:02 PM
Reply to  clickkid

OMG…! The Phoenix Program… I had forgotten all about it…! What a forgetful ‘known dissenter’ I’ve become in my old age…

CIA-led operation during the Viet Nam War, where the gloves came off… All VC (Viet Cong) supporters rounded up and exterminated… I believe 25,000 killed was the number the Media used…

Thanks, Kid, for reminding me of my roots… 👍

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 3:24 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Douglas Valentine literally wrote the book on that one.

If you haven’t read it already, then I highly recommend it.

It was of course the precursor of the ‘Salvador Option’ in the 1980s and similar programs in Iraq in 2004-2007.

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Mar 28, 2020 8:18 PM
Reply to  clickkid

…all by way of operation condor/school of the americas, ‘kid, by way of italian far-right secret society propaganda due’s leading role in the CIA-sponsored ‘years of lead’/gladio shenanigans in italy…

… – by way of ‘god’s banker’ roberto calvi, found dangling from blackfriar’s bridge in the city of london one fine june morning in 1982…

– i likes my rabbit holes nice and *deep*, and *twisty*…

😉

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 4, 2020 12:59 AM
Reply to  Sgt Oddball

After I discovered that death and injury were staged on 9/11 I thought I’d check the 1980 Bologna station bombing and the Pearl Harbour bombing to see if the bombings were real but of an evacuated area just like 9/11. Sure enough that’s what the evidence shows. (Click my icon for webpages on these events – Bologna and Pearl Harbour are under Other Events). I then realised that so much stuff is staged including, trials, alleged murders and suicides – you name it. I just looked up Calvi on Wikipedia (MI6 is proven to employ people in its pages and… Read more »

andy ellis
andy ellis
Mar 28, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I worked with a guy who was an instructor at the “school of the Americas “. Now that is a perfect example of ” they wouldn’t do that would they ? “.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 2:36 PM

By the way ‘1 in 7 Billion’ posed this question a couple of hours ago:

“Meaning, I wonder what is it people hope to achieve by coming here and posting here.”

What’s your answer Louis?

Estaugh
Estaugh
Mar 28, 2020 2:45 PM

Here’s one for you, sunny Jim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we37yX3zpKA

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 28, 2020 12:50 PM

Really pleased to see Piers Robinson writing here. Id encourage anyone to go to any future events he holds. If ‘Media on Trial’ starts up again in a town near you highly recommended also. The line up of speakers (Vanessa Beeley, Patrick Henningsen, Robert Stuart, Tim Hayward, Piers Robinson and Peter Ford) is brilliant and perfectly pitched to appeal to all, including those starting their journey to reality. Plus hilarious exchanges on Peter Hitchens Twitter between him and John (Florence Nightingale) Sweeney. We are so lucky having all these great people speaking up. Do follow him. His tweets are gold… Read more »

1of7billion
1of7billion
Mar 28, 2020 12:45 PM

As someone who has only posted here recently, apart from giving the MSM and the Guardian in particular a well deserved bashing, I am still not sure of exactly what this website is about. Meaning, I wonder what is it people hope to achieve by coming here and posting here. Meaning, yes, we all get a chance here to “get it of our chest” and put forth our own ideas, which the way the internet is now, is pretty much a rarity, to not have some pompous twit of a “politically correctness censor” like at the Guardian policing your free… Read more »

rraa
rraa
Mar 28, 2020 12:57 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

If everyone were to stop going to the Guardian / NYT / WaPo / take your MSM pick website and to come to sites like these, that would already be a HUGE start in the right direction.
If nothing else, just boycott MSM.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  rraa

I do still occasionally comment at the Telegraph and the Guardian. I think what we shoud be doing on those sites is dropping titbits of information contradicting mainstream narratives, in order to create cognitive dissonance in the minds of that subset of readers on those sites, who are open to alternative explanations. When I do this, I never, or rarely, push an argument myself. I just take some facts or statistics, sourced uncontroversially, which contradict the established narrative. I think it’s important to let the reader come to his or her own conclusions. This can be dificult at the Guardian… Read more »

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 28, 2020 1:04 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

Mate, I could tell you my life story about why nice people rarely become political leaders, but the reality, I am afraid, is quite simple: Our whole society penalises selfless decency and promotes aggressive self-serving thuggery. Every time I made a genuinely selfless gesture in my adult life, people laughted, sneered, took the proverbial and generally did whatever they could to shaft me. So I said: forget that for a bunch of Sundays and did not become like them, but simply stopped making such gestures any more. If you were a billionaire, even worth £50m with guaranteed income streams for… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:32 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

“Our whole society penalises selfless decency and promotes aggressive self-serving thuggery.

Every time I made a genuinely selfless gesture in my adult life, people laughted, sneered, took the proverbial and generally did whatever they could to shaft me.”

That’s what happens in mass societies in anonymous towns and cities.

Which is why, although such large cities can be fascinating to live and work in, human life is best-lived in smaller communities.

In smaller communities people ‘build up records’. Mutual help and support is rewarded, while be haviour such as you described, gets penalized.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 28, 2020 1:39 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Just to add:

Thinking about it more – those smaller communities could also be in towns and cities, if they involve people living there on a longer term basis.

A great deal of what you describe, results from living in a society which is not onöy a mass anonymous society, but also one, where people are just passing through, always moving on.

The transition to such a society – which middle-class Britain has obviously made – has involved a vast loss of social capital.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Mar 28, 2020 1:25 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

“Brevity is the soul of wit.”

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 28, 2020 1:44 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

Wow, 1of7…!! The post that became a blog that became a book… lol And damn good reading IMO…! You really laid yourself out there (not your intention?)… History, facts, experiences, beliefs, and above all, your frustrations and fears… So much I’d like to comment on…! But I won’t, other than to say I prefer the word ‘opportunity’ vs ‘right’… Free speech is the great filter that allows us the opportunity to harass, belittle, insult… As well as to educate, inform, befriend… That’s why I think free speech is such a great filter… How one uses that opportunity defines who they… Read more »

Paul
Paul
Mar 28, 2020 4:18 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

This site falls down when it censors criticism of its stance as happened with me just this morning. I was comparing Virus Denial with other fanatical beliefs like Holocaust and Climate Denial. Quite a few here strongly objected with this argument but if you really believed in free speech why would you say ‘don’t let’s publish that rather rude one’?

Rise
Rise
Mar 28, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

YES for DIRECT DEMOCRACY! What the West has now is Lobbyists’ Tyranny.

Steve
Steve
Mar 28, 2020 2:12 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

I for one am hoping (although that rarely gets you anywhere) that some day a great leader will come along who has risen from the masses, not the political class. The system will never change from the inside, it’s self serving and self perpetuating.
Until the day comes I do my little bit to be a tiny thorn in their side by trying to educate others and by donating now and then to Architects & Engineers for 9/11.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 28, 2020 2:21 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

You could have used one word for every seven and made your point more effective- as it is most will just scroll past.

Just a helpful suggestion (and yes i am also guilty of the same often).

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Mar 28, 2020 4:57 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

I’m with you, both your doubts and your prescriptions, except…..

“Mostly the only marriages or other relationships that last, are never based on so called ‘equality’, but only when one party agrees to get dominated and the other party therefore gets to boss them about.”

Having not only a marriage but a number of relationships of which that is not true – and having long ago rejected the relationships of which it is – I can’t accept that statement and its implications for the broader society.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Mar 28, 2020 5:39 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

Where I live there was a “central, progressive” candidate whose whole agenda was around localising and democratising politics… she got mine and 149 other votes.

Eric Blair
Eric Blair
Mar 28, 2020 12:44 PM

Political Actors on a world stage. Welcome to a real world drill gone “live”. The Coronavirus is actually more related to a common cold than the flu. When the numbers of deaths end up being no where near what they are for the flu, the politicians and everyone who happily excepted medical martial law all over the world will rejoice and pat themselves on the back.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 28, 2020 11:21 AM

It kind of drives me crazy the way people call it a beatup and allow the possibility of some kind of “novel” virus. There’s no virus, folks. None at all … except the usual. It’s the Emperor’s New Clothes writ very, very large. It’s a psyop and they don’t do things for real in a psyop. Does no one seems to get exactly what a psyop is? They don’t do things for real in a psyop unless they want them for real and they don’t want a virus for real, they just want an excellent pretext to have us jumping… Read more »

Victor G.
Victor G.
Mar 28, 2020 2:23 PM