365

Open Letter from Prof Sucharit Bhakdi to Chancellor Merkel

Translated from the German by Swiss Propaganda Research
An Open Letter from Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, Professor Emeritus of Medical Microbiology at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, to the German Chancellor Dr. Angela Merkel. Professor Bhakdi calls for an urgent reassessment of the response to Covid-19 and asks the Chancellor five crucial questions. The let­ter is dated March 26. This is an unofficial translation.

Dear Chancellor,

As Emeritus of the Johannes-Gutenberg-University in Mainz and longtime director of the Institute for Medical Microbiology, I feel obliged to critically question the far-reaching restrictions on public life that we are currently taking on ourselves in order to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

It is expressly not my intention to play down the dangers of the virus or to spread a political message. However, I feel it is my duty to make a scientific contribution to putting the current data and facts into perspective – and, in addition, to ask questions that are in danger of being lost in the heated debate.

The reason for my concern lies above all in the truly unforeseeable socio-economic consequences of the drastic containment measures which are currently being applied in large parts of Europe and which are also already being practiced on a large scale in Germany.

My wish is to discuss critically – and with the necessary foresight – the advantages and disadvantages of restricting public life and the resulting long-term effects.

To this end, I am confronted with five questions which have not been answered sufficiently so far, but which are indispensable for a balanced analysis.

I would like to ask you to comment quickly and, at the same time, appeal to the Federal Government to develop strategies that effectively protect risk groups without restricting public life across the board and sow the seeds for an even more intensive polarization of society than is already taking place.

With the utmost respect,

Prof. em. Dr. med. Sucharit Bhakdi

1. Statistics

In infectiology – founded by Robert Koch himself – a traditional distinction is made between infection and disease. An illness requires a clinical manifestation. [1] Therefore, only patients with symptoms such as fever or cough should be included in the statistics as new cases.

In other words, a new infection – as measured by the COVID-19 test – does not necessarily mean that we are dealing with a newly ill patient who needs a hospital bed. However, it is currently assumed that five percent of all infected people become seriously ill and require ventilation. Projections based on this estimate suggest that the healthcare system could be overburdened.

My question: Did the projections make a distinction between symptom-free infected people and actual, sick patients – i.e. people who develop symptoms?

2. Dangerousness

A number of coronaviruses have been circulating for a long time – largely unnoticed by the media. [2] If it should turn out that the COVID-19 virus should not be ascribed a significantly higher risk potential than the already circulating corona viruses, all countermeasures would obviously become unnecessary.

The internationally recognized International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents will soon publish a paper that addresses exactly this question. Preliminary results of the study can already be seen today and lead to the conclusion that the new virus is NOT different from traditional corona viruses in terms of dangerousness. The authors express this in the title of their paper “SARS-CoV-2: Fear versus Data.” [3]

My question: How does the current workload of intensive care units with patients with diagnosed COVID-19 compare to other coronavirus infections, and to what extent will this data be taken into account in further decision-making by the federal government? In addition: Has the above study been taken into account in the planning so far? Here too, of course, „diagnosed“ means that the virus plays a decisive role in the patient’s state of illness, and not that previous illnesses play a greater role.

3. Dissemination

According to a report in the Süddeutsche Zeitung, not even the much-cited Robert Koch Institute knows exactly how much is tested for COVID-19. It is a fact, however, that a rapid increase in the number of cases has recently been observed in Germany as the volume of tests increases. [4]

It is therefore reasonable to suspect that the virus has already spread unnoticed in the healthy population. This would have two consequences: firstly, it would mean that the official death rate – on 26 March 2020, for example, there were 206 deaths from around 37,300 infections, or 0.55 percent [5] – is too high; and secondly, it would mean that it would hardly be possible to prevent the virus from spreading in the healthy population.

My question: Has there already been a random sample of the healthy general population to validate the real spread of the virus, or is this planned in the near future?

4. Mortality

The fear of a rise in the death rate in Germany (currently 0.55 percent) is currently the subject of particularly intense media attention. Many people are worried that it could shoot up like in Italy (10 percent) and Spain (7 percent) if action is not taken in time.

At the same time, the mistake is being made worldwide to report virus-related deaths as soon as it is established that the virus was present at the time of death – regardless of other factors. This violates a basic principle of infectiology: only when it is certain that an agent has played a significant role in the disease or death may a diagnosis be made. The Association of the Scientific Medical Societies of Germany expressly writes in its guidelines: „In addition to the cause of death, a causal chain must be stated, with the corresponding underlying disease in third place on the death certificate. Occasionally, four-linked causal chains must also be stated.“ [6]

At present there is no official information on whether, at least in retrospect, more critical analyses of medical records have been undertaken to determine how many deaths were actually caused by the virus.

My question: Has Germany simply followed this trend of a COVID-19 general suspicion? And: is it intended to continue this categorisation uncritically as in other countries? How, then, is a distinction to be made between genuine corona-related deaths and accidental virus presence at the time of death?

5. Comparability

The appalling situation in Italy is repeatedly used as a reference scenario. However, the true role of the virus in that country is completely unclear for many reasons – not only because points 3 and 4 above also apply here, but also because exceptional external factors exist which make these regions particularly vulnerable.

One of these factors is the increased air pollution in the north of Italy. According to WHO estimates, this situation, even without the virus, led to over 8,000 additional deaths per year in 2006 in the 13 largest cities in Italy alone. [7] The situation has not changed significantly since then. [8] Finally, it has also been shown that air pollution greatly increases the risk of viral lung diseases in very young and elderly people. [9]

Moreover, 27.4 percent of the particularly vulnerable population in this country live with young people, and in Spain as many as 33.5 percent. In Germany, the figure is only seven percent [10]. In addition, according to Prof. Dr. Reinhard Busse, head of the Department of Management in Health Care at the TU Berlin, Germany is significantly better equipped than Italy in terms of intensive care units – by a factor of about 2.5 [11].

My question: What efforts are being made to make the population aware of these elementary differences and to make people understand that scenarios like those in Italy or Spain are not realistic here?

References:

[1] Fachwörterbuch Infektionsschutz und Infektionsepidemiologie. Fachwörter – Definitionen – Interpretationen. Robert Koch-Institut, Berlin 2015. (abgerufen am 26.3.2020)

[2] Killerby et al., Human Coronavirus Circulation in the United States 2014–2017. J Clin Virol. 2018, 101, 52-56

[3] Roussel et al. SARS-CoV-2: Fear Versus Data. Int. J. Antimicrob. Agents 2020, 105947

[4] Charisius, H. Covid-19: Wie gut testet Deutschland? Süddeutsche Zeitung. (abgerufen am 27.3.2020)

[5] Johns Hopkins University, Coronavirus Resource Center. 2020. (abgerufen am 26.3.2020)

[6] S1-Leitlinie 054-001, Regeln zur Durchführung der ärztlichen Leichenschau. AWMF Online (abgerufen am 26.3.2020)

[7] Martuzzi et al. Health Impact of PM10 and Ozone in 13 Italian Cities. World Health Organization Regional Office for Europe. WHOLIS number E88700 2006

[8] European Environment Agency, Air Pollution Country Fact Sheets 2019, (abgerufen am 26.3.2020)

[9] Croft et al. The Association between Respiratory Infection and Air Pollution in the Setting of Air Quality Policy and Economic Change. Ann. Am. Thorac. Soc. 2019, 16, 321–330.

[10] United Nations, Department of Economic and Social Affairs, Population Division. Living Arrange­ments of Older Persons: A Report on an Expanded International Dataset (ST/ESA/SER.A/407). 2017

[11] Deutsches Ärzteblatt, Überlastung deutscher Krankenhäuser durch COVID-19 laut Experten unwahrscheinlich, (abgerufen am 26.3.2020)

OffGuardian has received requests from some readers seeking contact information for Prof Bhakdi, we apologise but we are not able to satisfy those requests. Professor Bhakdi has no affiliation nor contact with OffGuardian, and as such we are not in the position to forward e-mails or share contact information. We would suggest anyone seeking to contact him attempt to do so through his youtube channel, or ResearchGate.

can you spare $1.00 a month to support independent media

Unlike the Guardian we are NOT funded by Bill & Melinda Gates, or any other NGO or government. So a few coins in our jar to help us keep going are always appreciated.

Our Bitcoin JTR code is: 1JR1whUa3G24wXpDyqMKpieckMGGW2u2VX

0 0 vote
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
365 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Tom Harris
Tom Harris
Apr 9, 2020 8:31 PM

Did the Chancellor answer your outstanding letter, Professor? If so, what did she say?

fred
fred
Apr 1, 2020 6:38 PM

i have subbed the speech of prof.bhakdi : https://youtu.be/iinPU0DjmJA
please share, copy and link
this fraud has to end

Joerg
Joerg
Apr 1, 2020 11:24 AM

“ALLWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE!”
As a (German) foreigner I live in Vienna. We have a total lockdown here. Only some shops (food and so on) are allowed to have opened
But the “bright side of life” to me is that they didn’t close the tobacco-shops. I’m a heavy smoker and I’d definitely would get a nervous break down If I couldn’t smoke anymore.

Also probably beginning with tomorrow all supermarkets will give away breathing masks for free. And then everyone is obliged(!) to wear these masks in public!
But I’ll also her look at “the bright side of life”: In some month will have this hot summer in Vienna (Vienna is very hot in summertime!). and then I’ll lay at the beach of the Danube or at the poolside of a public bath and then I can use this breathing mask as a TANGA!
And, let’ s say , a young mother with two kids can use these three masks as a bikini!

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 11:33 AM
Reply to  Joerg

‘Tanga’ is ‘thong’ in English Jörg 🙂

Joerg
Joerg
Apr 1, 2020 12:56 PM
Reply to  clickkid

@clickkid
‘Tanga’ is ‘thong’ in English Jörg
Thanks for your help, clickkid (sadly my English is only soso!)!

Krankenhaus Ost/Donauspital…“.
No, didn’t’ t hear of that. (found the link though: https://hartgeld.com/sozialsysteme.html )

When I moved to Vienna (from Hamburg) a few years ago, I was surprised how “governmental” (“obrigkeitsstaatlich”) the mentality is here. As a pensioned attorney (of German law) I was surprised to find that Austrian laws also know the “offence of not obeying” (“Gehorsamkeitsdelikt”)!.
People here are following the programmed “narrative”. Even the people of Winsen/Luhe (south of Hamburg) would be considered “revolutionaries” here. J
The BVT (Behörde für Verfassungsschutz und Terrorismusbekämpfung) is ruled by the German BND.
The Austrian (and Vienna) government will always exactly copy what happens in Germany!

Now to something else: I was still an attorney in Hamburg and had a client, whose shop was closed, I would sue the hell out of the government. Remember, clickkid, that Merkel in 2011 forced all nuclear powerplants to close down after Fukushima. And then the state had to pay billions(!) of euros for compensation to these energy corporations!
This chart –comment image – shows clearly that that long before the 12th week – when closedown of businesses and “social distancing” were ordered (in Germany, Austria and elsewhere) the cases of respiratory illness were already in a deep decline (“Sturzbomber”). I would win these lawsuits!

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 11:41 AM
Reply to  Joerg

Jörg,

I read the following yesterday:

“– aus 1000% sicherer Quelle aus Wien, Krankenhaus Ost/Donauspital. Das Krankenhaus ist nach der Rudolfsstiftung die zweite Corona Anlaufstelle in Wien. Mit gestern gab es 21 Corona Patienten, davon 5 in Intensivbehandlung (alle älter als 75) und 6 Verdachtsfälle. Die Hälfte der vorbereiteten Intensivplätze wurden bereits wieder rückgebaut.”

https://hartgeld.com/sozialsysteme.html

Have you any idea if that is the case?

Translation:

“from 1000% safe source from Vienna, Ost / Donauspital Hospital. After the Rudolf Foundation, the hospital is the second Corona contact point in Vienna. As of yesterday there were 21 Corona patients, 5 of them in intensive care (all older than 75) and 6 suspected cases. Half of the prepared intensive care places have already been dismantled.”

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 1, 2020 1:27 PM
Reply to  Joerg

On the subject of masks, is it healthy to be breathing in man made, synthetic fibres, or GM cotton, into your lungs, 24/7?

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 1, 2020 2:41 PM
Reply to  Joerg

But the “bright side of life” to me is that they didn’t close the tobacco-shops. I’m a heavy smoker and I’d definitely would get a nervous break down If I couldn’t smoke anymore.

– nervous break down
+ large machete and chop heads off

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 11:00 AM

Not sure which thread to post this on, so have just gone with the most recent.

I was interested to see that Russia has sent aid to the US to help them tackle coronavirus: a plane load of medical equipment and protective gear. Trump has expressed his deep gratitude. Has it been reported on the BBC yet? How long before it’s reported as collusion?

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-april-1-a69117

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 12:56 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

“How long before it’s reported as collusion?”

I think it has been already Judy. The Russiagaters have been bedwetting over it.

https://www.rt.com/usa/484630-russiagaters-russia-us-coronavirus-supplies/

Willem
Willem
Apr 1, 2020 7:06 AM

From Wag the Dog

‘Conrad ‘Connie’ Brean : Well, if Kissinger can win the Peace Prize, I wouldn’t be surprised to wake up and find out I’d won the Preakness.

Stanley Motss : Well, yes but, our guy DID bring peace.

Conrad ‘Connie’ Brean : Yeah, but there wasn’t a war.

Stanley Motss : All the greater accomplishment.’

Now, the comparison of the concept ‘ peace‘ in wag the dog with ‘bringing down the curve’ with Covid 19 is not completely analogous, since I consider Covid 19 a real disease (while in wag the dog the ‘disease’/war was completely faked) but also a very mild disease in the large majority of the cases, which cannot be stopped by lockdowns, but will be stopped when the air temp is high enough.

Remember Miracle Wuhan? – Look for yourself, the ‘epidemic’ stopped there when the temp got over 20C. Stil the media wants us to believe that the accomplishment was made through a lockdown (hence the analogy with wag the dog)

It will be very interesting to see what happens in Europe. Since all European countries are all more or less in lockdown, the country that reaches temps of 20C or more for a number of days will see the number of infections plummet fastest is my prediction.

I may be wrong of course. Let’s see

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 8:27 AM
Reply to  Willem

the country that reaches temps of 20C or more for a number of days will see the number of infections plummet fastest is my prediction.

that would assume that most of the “infections” are real, and not fictitious products of highly non-specific PCR tests and greatly-expanded diagnostic criteria.

but what evidence is there of that?

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 1, 2020 10:45 AM
Reply to  milosevic
milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 12:01 PM
Reply to  Antonym

— which is to say that most of those allegedly infected experience no serious problems.

Willem
Willem
Apr 1, 2020 10:55 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Well, the number of people tested positive with PCR is going up

And the people who are admitted at the IC are different in terms of having strange lung disease for which they need to be admitted for a long time.

I cannot back this up with empirical evidence. But this is what I see and what I read when I read the medical literature.

The disease is real

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 11:31 AM
Reply to  Willem

“Well, the number of people tested positive with PCR is going up ”

“Dr. Richard Capek and other researchers have already shown that the number of test-positive individuals in relation to the number of tests performed remains constant in all countries studied so far, which speaks against an exponential spread („epidemic“) of the virus and merely indicates an exponential increase in the number of tests.”

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Willem
Willem
Apr 1, 2020 11:57 AM
Reply to  clickkid

I know. Still, I believe my own eyes and this what I see.

Sorry that I cannot share that experience with others, so you have to believe me: this is what I see.

I know that you should not trust anonymous commenters. But I comment here for years. Why should I lie?

‘Good news’ is: if what I see is true, others will see it to and report on it.

And if I see a red herring/small numbers, it will become clear too because others will report the non-increase in pcr + tests.

Please bear in mind that the Covid + in Germany is not high. Perhaps it is not there yet.

We’ll see..

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 1:29 PM
Reply to  Willem

What exactly are you seeing?

…and what do you mean by Covid+?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 12:02 PM
Reply to  Willem

If the disease is real, Willem, why have they told us such massive porkies about it coming from bats, pangolins, foxes, hedgehogs and two species of snakes, the Chinese cobra and the many-banded krait.

Why have they shown us people falling flat on their faces and laid out on the pavement and in hospitals? Why have they told us about empty buildings being converted into a hospital in 48 hours but not shown us this conversion properly, just shown a very unconvincing image of allegedly empty buildings? Why have they not shown us convincing patients in hospitals? Yes, they have tubes up their noses but the patients are not convincingly sick. What do you think of this woman?

A feature of psyops, Willem, is that they push absolute nonsense in our faces.

How could Event 201, a tabletop pandemic exercise involving the World Economic Forum, the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation happen so coincidentally in October last year just before the alleged outbreak?

Willem
Willem
Apr 1, 2020 12:51 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I changed my hypothesis that this thing is both a psyops and it’s real.

The disease is mild though, so no reason to panic whatsoever. the psyops is needed to justify the lockdown/ saving the economy (for the few)/ introduce laws that will limit our ‘dissent’ (neeeded for predictability that planners want).

They knew what was coming, and could plan ahead, as they knew when to introduce the disease. That this disease occurred first in places close to us military airbases raises my suspicion: Eindhoven, Bergamo, Wuhan.

I know that this is quite speculative. But this is how I currently look at this event.

My way of dealing with it is going from event to event. Since I consider the disease for real, my next question is: how bad is it (Answer mild). This is what I hold to be the truth, although I could be wrong (I call it a working diagnosis, which diagnosis may change when more info comes in)

A question I am struggling with now is: when will it stop? After the disease stopped, a further question will be: why did it start?

Willem
Willem
Apr 1, 2020 12:52 PM
Reply to  Willem

The change in hypothesis is: I used to think it was all fake

Rafa
Rafa
Apr 4, 2020 11:23 PM
Reply to  Willem

Spain has been warmer than most of Europe and look what happened.

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 1, 2020 2:38 AM

The let­ter is dated March 26.

Way too late, as most Westerners. East Asia worked at lightning speed and won as this WHO expert concluded already on March 3rd.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 12:50 AM

I wouldn’t generally ‘double post’ but thought I would post this discussion involving Peter Hitchens on the Sky News podcast. I have also posted it under the previous CV article with a more expansive comment from me. All I’ll say here is that the total lack of awareness among the other panel members of the economic and social impact of the ‘lockdown’ is astounding and frightening (“Everything will return to normal as soon as it’s over.”)

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pandemic-is-uk-beginning-to-flatten-the-curve-11966518

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:35 AM

An article based on act and read at rationale?! That means most won’t accept its findings until the usual mainstream suspects say it’s ok to do so

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 12:04 AM

“Yesterday, one of the first deaths of a Virginia resident from COVID-19 was a Christian musical evangelist who, believing the pandemic response to be anti-Trump “mass hysteria,” took his family to New Orleans to “wash it from its Sin and debauchery.”

A Gretna man who had double pneumonia and tested positive for COVID-19 in Concord North Carolina died around 4 a.m. Wednesday, the family reports.

Landon Spradlin, 66, was an accomplished blues musician who pastored several different churches over the years.”

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/03/26/virginia-pastor-who-said-covid-19-was-anti-trump-mass-hysteria-dies-of-virus/

So, a Christian Evangelist who says that covid-19 ist anti-Trump hysteria goes and dies of – allegedly – covid-19. This is then portrayed as – what … irony, poetic justice?

What an amazing coincidence?

Who writes these scripts

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 1:47 AM
Reply to  clickkid

God, of course. He called ole Landon home, dat’s all. Praise His Glory!

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 8:31 AM
Reply to  clickkid

— the more important question is, who pays for these scripts to be written?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 31, 2020 11:12 PM

Just watched the latest Propaganda Watch then (health worker applause phenomenon) and as James Corbett said at the end of the clip… ‘The space for dissent is closing’.
Just like 9/11, and it’s aftermath, people everywhere are being force fed fear porn over this virus, courtesy of the revolting presstitute media. Along with alleged progressive and socialist sites, which I now view with deep suspicion.
And many, sadly, are dutifully believing the bullshit. How far will all this go?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 11:43 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I visited North Korea several years ago.

Just after leaving the hotel one morning in the car we passed a group of women standing on the street corner singing and dancing. I asked my guides why the women were doing that, and was told that the women were housewives and thus could not take part in the 200 days of struggle ordered by Kim Jong-Un, and were therefore singing and dancing to show their solidarity with the workers.

That’s where we now are.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 11:48 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

“The Wave is based on a true incident that occurred in a high school history class in Palo Alto, California, in 1969.

The powerful forces of group pressure that pervaded many historic movements such as Nazism are recreated in the classroom when history teacher Burt Ross introduces a “new” system to his students. And before long The Wave, with its rules of “strength through discipline, community, and action”, sweeps from the classroom through the entire school. And as most of the students join the movement, Laurie Saunders and David Collins recognize the frightening momentum of The Wave and realize they must stop it before it’s too late.”

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/481743.The_Wave

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 1, 2020 12:15 AM
Reply to  clickkid

Yes, heard about The Wave years ago.
There was also a documentary about that experiment I believe. As one gets older (57) ones memory gets a bit dimmer. I’m just perplexed that so many are lapping all this up like a cat laps up milk. The power of propaganda C.
North Korea would have been a fascinating place to visit. I’ve never been anywhere in the northern hemisphere, but it would have been quite an eye opener? I hear the people are very courteous and polite.
It’s scary where this is heading…

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:38 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah most western socialist mid communist groups are financed by the security services especially Trotskyist groups. Only one half decent organisation in Britain is this band of Marxist Leninist party thecommunists.org

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 1, 2020 8:04 AM
Reply to  Koba

Hi Koba, thanks for the link. I can be a bit naive around this area, and nearly 3 months ago nearly joined the SEP (WSWS) but they declined my application due to my precarious personal situation.
I took their site (and articles) at face value, tho since the Coronavirus ‘crisis’ – have been mortified by their over the top, literally grotesque fear mongering that was equally as bad as the MSM!
I’ve stopped looking at their site altogether, and have blocked the numbers of 3 members who I had given my phone number too.
I now feel a bit of a dick, and sorta kicking myself. I see on other comments you made, you’re in Geordieland… Newcastle. An area devastated by That woman, as was much of the North.
Am at the other end of the World, in Melbourne. There’s no genuine anti Capitalist anti imperialist Left anywhere in Australia it seems. Most of the other groups here are also Trotskyists to some degree. Several of them strongly supported ‘The Revolution’ in Syria (aka Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, FSA, etc) and viewed the White Helmets as genuine civil defence!
Have a good day Koba…

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 8:42 AM
Reply to  Koba

most western socialist mid communist groups are financed by the security services especially Trotskyist groups.

interesting, if true. references?

I’m also curious about “mid communists”, a political phenomenon I’ve never previously heard of.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 1, 2020 4:19 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Come on milo, wouldn’t you think it unlikely that they submit audited accounts ?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 1:48 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Very far, until it doesn’t anymore, having hit numerous brick walls.

no picnic
no picnic
Mar 31, 2020 10:22 PM

Is there anything they cannot do now that everyone must stay home under the threat of severe penalties or even jail?

Is this the Bin Laden they have always wanted?

It is a Bin Laden that now exists in every street, in every household and every person. We are all potential carriers of the new Bin Laden!

Gee, this new virus really hates our freedom but has no passport this time!

Is there anything they cannot do now?!!!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 1:49 AM
Reply to  no picnic

A New, New Pearl Harbor?

Jim Davies
Jim Davies
Mar 31, 2020 10:09 PM

Wow! An honest scientist!

Dave
Dave
Mar 31, 2020 9:48 PM

Get hold of a book called Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper. (free to download) From page 166 in the paper copy.

The virus isn’t the issue in these ‘testing’ times.

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:40 AM
Reply to  Dave

Yeah let’s be honest Bill Cooper called everything’s he didn’t like the socialist new world order! AKA he got near the truth on certain subjects then veers wildly off course

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 9:46 PM

Well the inflated uk death figures have been released – 381, but that now including deaths “in the community”.Interesting to note that the numbers of new cases 1789 are still less than they were for much of last week. No doubt the MSM are wetting themselves with glee at the inflated deaths figure however, meanwhile the rest of us have the prospect of yet more and more “lockdown”.

The numbers are still very small in a country of 66,000,000 people, but it’s just so easy to manipulate people with these figures.

The only really important figure is the excess deaths figure, which would give an accurate picture of the true state of the “pandemic”. I don’t know if anyone has access to that or can say where to go to get it.

I don’t see that the MSM and the government are going to let go of this easily. They are enjoying themselves too much.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:25 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Apology. I think offg has already shown that it is the euromomo.eu website that reports excess mortality. Sorry, it’s all happening so fast, it’s hard to keep track sometimes!

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 10:52 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

The UK figure for new cases was also up to 4220 and not 1789 as I said. That was the total deaths.

All the same, this is just media fear porn. How many get colds and flu each year? The virus is not especially dangerous when you look at the figures for deaths, but I can see this circus going go on and on.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 9:33 PM

I though it was gross and I told her so.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:28 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Not sure what this is doing here admin? I was answering a question of clickkid regarding Caitlin Johnstone. If you want to remove it fine. I don’t mind.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 10:46 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

ok thanks John – I realized the comment got misplaced.

Reg
Reg
Apr 1, 2020 12:57 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

I like this standalone comment. It made me laugh.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 10:54 AM
Reply to  Reg

It was in reference to a piece that Caitlin Johnstone wrote on female sexuality in November 2018 in which she described her excitement on getting her first vibrator.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 31, 2020 8:25 PM

How about this: tomorrow, Boris and the rest of the government along with Prince Charles and all the media heads all jump up and shout “APRIL FOOL!”

Magggie
Magggie
Apr 1, 2020 12:07 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Lol George, this is exactly what I said to husband.

How about this for suspicious? I did the You Gov survey yesterday and they asked me if I took part in the clap for NHS worker??
Checking to see if the British Brainwashing Corporation was hitting the targets?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 1, 2020 3:25 AM
Reply to  Magggie

Jesus bloody wept Maggie. They’re trying to turn nearly everyone into automatons…. The latest Propaganda Watch video looks at that very subject – about clapping and showing support for health care workers.

Willem
Willem
Mar 31, 2020 8:21 PM

Looks like warmer weather is coming in many European countries next week (in NL expect temp >20C). So I would like to make a risky prediction: any country that sees a temperature next week close or over 20C, will see in the 5-7 days after a huge drop in number of new infected Covid-19 cases

Because my hypothesis is that Spring will stop the spread of Covid19 and not the lock-down

I may be wrong, which is why it is a risky prediction.

We’ll see.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 8:31 PM
Reply to  Willem

Just imagine come July in say Madrid, Spain:

You are 23 years old:

No Job,

No prospect of a Job,

Therefore no Money,

No freedom,

Its 40 degrees Celsius.

Half a Million others in your city think just like you

“When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it” – Gerald Celente

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:43 AM
Reply to  clickkid

`and enticing as that sounds click it won’t happen especially in Britain! The Roy’s has averaged zero revolutionary potential or zeal and when they lose their jobs commies I’ll get the blame somehow

Waldorf
Waldorf
Mar 31, 2020 9:14 PM
Reply to  Willem

I live in the Mediterranean and April really is spring there, and sometimes even 25 or more centigrade, as opposed to a lingering late winter as it often is in North-Western Europe. Flus often weaken in warmer weather although they do not go away. So fingers crossed that things will improve with this thing.

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 31, 2020 7:22 PM

Off-G, on your twitter feed you link to this article:

https://digwithin.net/2020/03/31/covid/

It asks how many deaths might be caused not by the virus but by the response to the virus. Admittedly it is written from an American point of view but the concerns apply equally well to the UK e.g.

Beyond lack of coverage, medical services are being reprioritized to respond preferentially to COVID-19, causing less resources to be available for treatment of other medical conditions.

With reference to the UK, this will result in catastrophic damage to the NHS. Once again I refer to this article:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/covid-19-exponential-threat-why-global-politicians-business-leaders-must-act-now

I noted the inevitable sense of impotence and despair for anyone who reads this due to that part of the title: “Why Global Politicians & Business Leaders Must Act Now” – since we know perfectly well that these politicians and business leaders will not even read it far less “act now”. But consider the article itself:

When you’re done reading the article, this is what you’ll take away:
• The coronavirus is coming to you.
• It’s coming at an exponential speed: gradually, and then suddenly.
• It’s a matter of days. Maybe a week or two.
• When it does, your healthcare system will be overwhelmed.
• Your fellow citizens will be treated in the hallways.
• Exhausted healthcare workers will break down. Some will die.
• They will have to decide which patient gets the oxygen and which one dies.
• The only way to prevent this is social distancing today. Not tomorrow. Today.
• That means keeping as many people home as possible, starting now.

Now is it just me or is there a sense of a magician giving the game away with that “this is what you’ll take away”? He is telling us in advance how we are going to react. And then he is telling us what WILL happen …UNLESS (the offer you can’t refuse)

But note the doomsday scenario (voiced with a note of sadistic glee). “exponential speed: gradually, and then suddenly….a matter of days. Maybe a week or two ….healthcare system will be overwhelmed …citizens will be treated in the hallways … healthcare workers …break down…. die …which patient gets …which one dies” All this prophesised with Biblical certitude.

So what is this? A preview of a coming feature already filmed? Wishful thinking?

But note the unspoken question: How much of this prophesised catastrophe is due to the virus and how much to the response to the virus?

Note another unspoken question: What will be the ultimate effect of this catastrophe? That one we can answer: the destruction of the health service.

Magggie
Magggie
Apr 1, 2020 12:12 AM
Reply to  George Mc

George, Did you not see the film “Contagion” 2011?
Total predictive programming.

Magggie
Magggie
Apr 1, 2020 12:14 AM
Reply to  Magggie

Life mimicking art?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 6:04 AM
Reply to  Magggie

Haven’t seen it but I get it, Maggie – one-word Hollywood titles on that kind of subject tend not to interest me – they always feel so bogus – and seems they are whether from Hollywood or in “real life”. You might be interested in my comment below to George.

And we have an episode of the Simpsons all the way back from 2010 which spoke about instigating the next “phoney-baloney crisis” of a “public health scare.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StSScQc6bQ0

Mr. Burns is branded a social pariah after buying all the vaccinations created for a fictitious illness cooked up by the media, and ends up as The Simpsons’ latest houseguest after a suicide attempt.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 1, 2020 11:04 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra, now that IS spooky – not least because it is true!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 3:38 AM
Reply to  George Mc

George,

Excellent pickup – makes my day.

I haven’t read Kevin Ryan since I realised he was controlled opposition. In case you don’t know he’s one of the many alleged 9/11 whistleblowers … who are, however, all fake and whose main purpose is squashing the lie of death and injury.

https://www.corbettreport.com/9-11-whistleblowers-kevin-ryan/
“Kevin Ryan was the site manager at Environmental Health Laboratories. On November 11, 2004, he wrote directly to Frank Gayle, the director of NIST’s Twin Towers investigation. The following week, he was fired. This is his story.”

9/11 Truth is wall-to-wall controlled opposition and “9/11 Truth” was planned as an absolutely massive part of the psyop which makes sense when you have such obvious controlled demolition and fakery of plane crashes – they needed to have complete control of the “truth” in order to suppress it. “9/11 controlled opposition truth” has a complete stranglehold on the 9/11 truth space – a complete and utter stranglehold and genuine truthers such as David Ray Griffin have been befriended and seduced by these people and cannot see beyond them. There seems to be a phenomenon where people will overcome an initial hurdle to learn some truth but when part of the truth that they learnt by overcoming the initial hurdle is challenged they are more resistant to the new truth than they were to initial truth, in other words, people seem to find it easier to accept initially that 9/11 was a psyop than they do to accept the new truth that the part of the psyop relating to death and injury is false. The way they’ve propagandised us is that we will generally only get to the first stage of truth, inside job, not the second but most pivotal stage, staged death and injury. The perps know that most people will fossilise at the first stage and be very resistant to going to the second. It took me four years myself to get to the second stage but it wasn’t because I was resistant to that truth but because the propaganda had me totally fooled. I think others resist because they are so invested in the tragic deaths of the people in the buildings and somehow feel it’s sacrilegious to suggest the alleged tragedy is, in fact, a lie. The perps know this so very well, God do they get mileage out of the societal taboo of death.

Truther-targeted propaganda strategy: maintain belief in death and injury so that truthers will be stymied in getting out the truth because non-truthers will simply not believe – ironically, quite correctly – that the US government would kill its citizens in this way (other ways perhaps but not this way). Also, just the very idea that the government would kill citizens like this is utterly taboo. The power of taboo must always be considered in how propaganda works. Taboo is so powerful and the more rules associated (as is the case now) the more taboo it is to speak about the subject.

So as Maggie points out below, the phenomenon you identify has the name “predictive programming”, however, I’ve read that the person who allegedly coined this term, Alan Watt, is controlled opposition himself – seriously, it’s like Russian dolls – and I think rather than use this term which sounds a little woo-woo and conspiracy-minded the perfectly normal term from the field of psychology, priming, works just as well.

It’s interesting to note that controlled opposition, most counterintuitively, pushes out masses and masses of truth in its own special way – beyond even the truth of what they must push out as part of their psyop rules – they really do tell us a lot of truth and when you recognise that fact it makes it much easier to identify.

Hate to break it to everyone but James Corbett is controlled opposition too. Yes, it took me a little while to recover from that rude shock but he is.
https://blog.banditobooks.com/an-open-letter-to-james-corbett/

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 9:34 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

truthers will be stymied in getting out the truth because non-truthers will simply not believe – ironically, quite correctly – that the US government would kill its citizens in this way (other ways perhaps but not this way).

— so, you agree with the non-truthers.

thanks for clearing that up.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 11:04 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Yes, it’s interesting, milo, that non-truthers are sometimes correct where truthers are not. Truth comes from where you least expect it – and lies the same. You’ve always got to have your wits about you and keep an open mind.

While the controlled opposition organisation, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, (who nevertheless do a fantastic job of explaining controlled demolition) have persuaded us truthers that there was molten metal at Ground Zero, debunkers didn’t buy it … and those debunkers are right!
http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

I’m not sure the reason controlled opposition is pushing molten metal but no doubt it is something to do with nanothermite/thermite and the sham legal case. Somehow it will be proven that there was no molten metal and no nanothermite and that will somehow nullify the case for controlled demolition (or some such). The legal case is as sham as the 9/11 Commission – you see how they always control everything?

But common sense tells you no molten metal, doesn’t it, milo, metal doesn’t stay molten outside a foundry. It’s just the clever propaganda that dupes us.

In this otherwise excellent video we are shown firefighters talking about witnessing molten metal running down the “channel rails.” It seems the firefighters are talking about something else but we’re led to believe it’s Ground Zero. See how clever the propaganda is, milo? I swallowed the molten metal for years and then I came across evidence of a fake photo allegedly showing molten metal but, in reality, showing glowing torches and I went back to the “channel rails” video and saw how I’d been duped … like so many others.

The debunker linked to above also points out anomalies in the timeline of the story told by alleged janitor, and “last man” out of the North tower before it collapsed, William Rodriguez, a controlled opposition agent. The debunker, of course, doesn’t realise that Willie is a controlled opposition agent, he just thinks he’s a liar or mistaken.

phil_n
phil_n
Apr 3, 2020 12:08 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

On the day there was a train engineer (subway) whose route was into the station under the towers. He was on the air telling the reporter that he received a communication on his two-way radio to stop his train at a station short of the towers and not proceed – before the destruction occurred.

There was a news crew that ventured into the aftermath underneath “ground zero’ where the station and stores were and there was no one there – not living or dead – not a soul in sight. If anybody died there it was an accident after the fact.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 1:35 AM
Reply to  phil_n

Thanks for that, Phil. You see, they always let us know the truth.

P R Ivy
P R Ivy
Mar 31, 2020 5:45 PM

Hi, great article as usual, off-guardian really is becoming my source for reliable investigation into whatever the flavour of the day is.

I have been struggling to find what the actual new police powers are, what act they are executing, how far their authority goes and the like, obviously by the current noises being made they are over reaching but if the general public don’t have a reference how do we know when a police officer is acting outisde their remit and abusing the authority and effectively breaking the law themselves. I would like to know what rights I actually have if stopped going for a walk or driving to the shops, what is lawful and what rights I still have to protect myself from overzealous police.

Do we have to supply them with full details when going to get a loaf of bread of walking a few miles?
The prospect of bumping into the Police is real and as citezens we should all be made aware of what rights we can still utilise if stopped by agents of the state.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 6:46 PM
Reply to  P R Ivy

Why would the police/government want you to believe that they are omniscient?
Why would the police/government want you to believe that they are tyants who will overstep the mark if you walk further than the alloted time by a second?
Why would they want you to believe that behind every twitching curtain is a pair of watching eyes…?
Answer, because they are not.
You are supposed to be cowed and controlled.
Why let them.
Let them put up or shut, bring in the army, bring in the tanks like Tinamen Square, force the tyrant to uncloak.
Or we can live on our knees over these lies.

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:47 AM
Reply to  jay

Your Tiananmen Square analogy doesn’t work when you consider the whole Tiananmen massacre story is bullshit

jay
jay
Apr 1, 2020 9:03 AM
Reply to  Koba

So, you are the “analogy correcter general”…
Correcting such false analogies as lemming suicides and others such as “Like a midget at a urinal, I’m going to have to stay on my toes”….
Thank you for your diligence as ever, I will consider myself chasitised and chastened!

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 9:39 AM
Reply to  Koba

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 1:51 AM
Reply to  jay

You indicate your brainwashed ignorance with your ‘ Tinamen’ garbage.

jay
jay
Apr 1, 2020 9:05 AM

Another “analogy correcter general”…

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 1, 2020 11:10 AM

Richard not sure if what happened in Tianamen is true video or not – these days you can’t tell can you. What I do know though, is that it smacked to me at the time of the USA CIA usual covert work to undermine countries they see as their ‘enemies’. It was for me, the thing that woke me up to the fact China was fast becoming a threat economically, politically and technologically to the USA. The riots in Hong Kong appear to be the same thing to me and now this virus starting in China a month or so after American military had been there, a mile away from a WHO specialist bio research lab. I’ll say no more

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Mar 31, 2020 7:39 PM
Reply to  P R Ivy

I’ve just been reading something on Yahoo which says there is no compulsion to answer police questions as to why you are out of doors and that government guidelines relating to exercise and driving out of boredom etc are not codified in law.

Clearly this requires clarification!

That being said I am ignoring it as I have from the outset. This lockdown has the potential to drive people insane and the psychopaths know this. It is necessary to ignore it at least while we still can.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 9:50 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

I work from home anyway, but I have been going out every day. So far no problems, but the streets are quiet.

I think the point is that the police are not agents of the government. They are not supposed to answer to government ministers, but to uphold the law.

Magggie
Magggie
Apr 1, 2020 12:24 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

As you say John, Police are NOT government agents, or Kapos. They work for us. It is we who pay their wages, but they have conveniently forgotten that.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 1, 2020 11:13 AM
Reply to  Germs Bond

Germs Bond (love the name!) very true, I too am ignoring it because the science, true science, tells us neither lock down nor social distancing works to prevent spread of the virus. Peter Hitchens, on his Mail Blog gives a very damning but rather brilliant outline of the new Coronavirus Bill which includes an interview with Lord Sumption about a police state. I think for me, reading it, it is not in any law that you cannot go out more than once a day or that you cannot drive just to get out and about a bit. I think everyone should ignore this once a day shit and only for essentials and get out there, get some human contact, some chat, some humour – defiance against this totalitarianism is what is required not compliance to it.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 1:27 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

When I walk down the street and see someone wearing a mask I tell them it’s a hoax. A couple of days ago I addressed a queue in the street and said it was a hoax and one woman responded and raised her own questions about it.

Yes, I doubt there are enforceable laws and they’re just relying on people’s willingness to comply which is pathetically high.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 1, 2020 2:00 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Not to be alarmist but are you sure what you’re doing isn’t an arrestable offence where you are?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 3:03 PM
Reply to  Admin1

Might be but you gotta take a stand, haven’t you? I’ll certainly consider going to jail. I mean, can it be all that much worse than being out of jail? I imagine that initially they get compliance through propaganda and then only once the norms are well-established will they actually enforce laws – which I doubt even exist at this point. I very much think that at this point any arrests they tell us about on the media are staged and are just propaganda to intimidate and encourage compliance. But who knows?

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Mar 31, 2020 5:22 PM

“What efforts are being made to make the population aware of these elementary differences and to make people understand that scenarios like those in Italy or Spain are not realistic here?”

Absolutely no effort will be made by mainstream media news or any governmental agency to dispel the hysteria successfully spread thus far. Once a Pandora’s box is opened there’s no going back. Authoritarian sources never admit they’re wrong. After it’s realized the mortality statistics for COVID-19 is similar to any past flu season the data will be smothered beneath a fresh news story relentlessly harped to the unsuspected catatonic millions. The official narrative is viewed as the only “truth.” Everything else is considered a laughable conspiracy theory or irrational. The security state’s narrative is always universally adopted as accepted fact. After all, we all know the accuracy of past data convincingly reported by the mainstream media news regarding foreign policy and neoliberal economics.

A apart from this, let’s analyze something that’s NOT being discussed by the hysterical mainstream media news, namely the relationship between COVID-19 and a pending worldwide financial collapse. A collapse having little or nothing to do with a virus. Perhaps COVID-19, is actually veiling this financial collapse. As Cassius an admired Roman judge living in 127 B.C. frequently said when presiding over lawsuits: “to whom might it be for a benefit?” CUI BONO?

The answer is that several diverse powerful organizations benefit by a manufactured pandemic. In a previous thread I commented how Bill Gates and the Davos crowd are “vaccine happy” and are eager to find ways to control a rageful worldwide population of more than seven billion. Nevertheless, it’s also important to microscopically examine another type of deadly virus–the financiers.

BlackRock, the world’s biggest asset manager lost $90 billion in the last decade through investments in fossil fuel companies. The Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (IEEFA) stated: “BlackRock continues to ignore the serious financial risks of putting money into fossil fuel-dependent companies…..
75% of these losses were the result of BlackRock’s investment in just four companies — ExxonMobil, Chevron, Royal Dutch Shell and, BP — which have “all underperformed the market in the past decade.”

What’s also interesting is BlackRock’s investments in the Middle East:
“The world’s largest asset manager BlackRock Inc. could add to its footprint in the Middle East by joining Israel’s infrastructure boom.” In addition, “BlackRock which has nearly $7 trillion in assets under management, joined KKR & Co. in February in agreeing to invest $4 billion in Abu Dhabi’s oil pipelines, securing two decades of guaranteed returns.”

That being said, is it NO surprise that BlackRock is the company most influential in dealing out the multi-trillion dollar US bailout. BlackRock, will be administering three of the bailout programs. In other words, BlackRock gets appointed to oversee bailouts to companies including BlackRock.
Under the arrangement BlackRock could buy some of its own funds on behalf of the central bank. After a decade of $90 billion in losses, what a convenient time for a shady “asset” management company to
seize onto the coattails of a panic pandemic…….

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 6:48 PM

5 Trillion dollars assimilated by the Banksters.

Charlotte Ruse
Charlotte Ruse
Mar 31, 2020 9:42 PM
Reply to  jay

I understand that the “first” US bailout might amount to $6 trillion. Several follow-up bailouts could occur. Interesting, $6 trillion is almost the identical amount squandered in the endless regime change wars.

paul
paul
Apr 3, 2020 2:27 PM

The board of Blackrock under Larry Fink, is 100% Jewish. Not much diversity there.
Blackrock is the biggest money manager in the world.
It is bigger than JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank combined, a major shareholder in all three, and the biggest shareholder in Deutsche Bank.
A system of cross ownership banking cartel we have seen so many times before.
This bailout dwarfs that of 2008.
The original US bailout of 2008, $750 billion, ballooned into 24 trillion over the following 18-24 months.
The current US bailout is already 10-20 x or more greater.
Over the past 9 months, Trump has pumped $11 trillion into the stock market to prop it up.
Another $6 trillion (as an initial instalment) will shortly be doled out by Blackrock on behalf of the Fed to its cronies and fellow Wall Street Wide Boys.
$625 billion a week will be spent buying up bonds.
Shares, bundled student loans, bundled car loans, all sorts of garbage, Cash For Trash all over again on an epic scale.
This will all balloon, 2008 style, into many tens of trillions.
No prizes for guessing who is going to benefit from all this.
And no prizes for guessing who is going to be paying for it all for decades.
Like Bloomberg, worth a paltry $3 billion in 2008, now $62 billion.
In the UK, the initial bailout comes to £350 billion.
At the last election, Corbyn was a dangerous communist lunatic because he wanted to spend another £40 billion.
Cameron doubled the national debt with a post 2008 bailout of £850 billion.
Every deadbeat tax dodging corporation will come up panhandling for cash.
Boeing wants $60 billion to pay for its 737 Flying Turkey.
Branson wants £7.5 billion.
Cue another bonus bonanza and an orgy of share buybacks.
Please give generously.
YOUR billionaire needs YOU.

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Apr 3, 2020 10:26 PM
Reply to  paul

The usual grifters will have their heads impaled to the trough……

crank
crank
Mar 31, 2020 4:44 PM

Caitlin Johnstone has written a piece about CV. Extract:

I personally believe there’s enough evidence that this virus is sufficiently dangerous to justify many of the significant steps nations have been taking (though of course we must oppose and be vigilant against government overstepping into authoritarianism). The statistics are still very blurry and unreliable, but the mountains of testimonies by rank-and-file medical staff pouring in from areas where the outbreak is bad constitute enough anecdotal evidence for me to believe that this virus can very easily overwhelm our healthcare systems if we don’t collectively take drastic measures to contain it.
That said, I certainly can’t cast blame on people who believe the threat the virus poses is being greatly exaggerated. Not because I think they’re right, but because you don’t blame a population who’s been constantly lied to for their disbelief in what they’re being told by the very political/media class which has been lying to them. It’s not the fault of the rank-and-file public that they’re believing conspiratorial narratives, erroneous Facebook memes, right-wing pundits and the US president over the mainstream press; it is the fault of the mainstream press themselves.

Nothing linked to support her beliefs. Nothing linked that delves into the ‘blurry statistics’, or the claims of those ‘in conspiracy circles’ who have tried to held her to account for her views. Just her opinion – which goes something like this : she believes what she believes because she believes what she believes. It is understandable that those who don’t believe what she believes, don’t, because the media lie all the time about just about every thing. But they are not lying about this. It’s not the fault of the narrative, it’s not the fault of the ‘public’ [no mention of alt media journalists] who don’t believe that narrative, it is rather a case of crying wolf.
It is interesting who takes what line in this Covid story. It is very revealing, not necessarily in a ‘conspiracy-of-deception’ sense, but just how clearly people can think according to their world views.
Johnstone lost me a while back to be honest. Her main bent has been ‘the questioning of all narratives is legitimate and necessary’ , but then bars no holds in shutting it down when certain subjects come up. This leaves her talking in vague generalisations which basically precludes any real political direction from her analysis.
That is my take.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 7:32 PM
Reply to  crank

Thanks, but I know her views on this and strongly disagree.

Reg
Reg
Mar 31, 2020 4:57 PM
Reply to  crank

“It is interesting who takes what line in this Covid story”

Yep, and I’ve found that a large number of “alternative” websites in my bookmarks have become suspect because of their unquestioning devotion to this narrative.

crank
crank
Mar 31, 2020 5:11 PM
Reply to  Reg

I know what you mean Reg. I think its important not to be sectarian about it, and I say that as someone who didn’t think clearly about this matter until recently.
It surely is a matter of disciplined adherence to some basic principles:
What is the strong data, not anecdotes and stories in the media or on social media?
What are the infection numbers actually telling us, how are they sourced and collated?
What are the fatality numbers actually telling us, how are they sourced and collated?
Seeing as there are always at least two sides to a situation, how is the media representing those sides (equally, proportionately, biased, prejudiced) ?
I think anyone who has not lost reason to fear, and asks those questions honestly and persistently will be closer to the truth than most in the media (mainstream or alternative).

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 31, 2020 5:58 PM
Reply to  crank

Crank

If I’m right you changed your view publicly on here. I think that is very commendable and what worries me if the views we express here start looking closer to the real situation, by those in the opposite camp, they will dig their heels in and go into denial. We saw this at its most absurd over OPCW.

I personally think if the end picture is closer to what we are being told by MSM, it wont be because the people telling us are informed. Its guesswork on their part – available science on ours. So I think whatever the outcome we will emerge with credit for questioning this (and not getting satisfactory answers when we asked)

crank
crank
Mar 31, 2020 6:53 PM
Reply to  Loverat

I still believe that ultimately the spin machine cannot hide the facts – or that when they do then the time of making arguments is kind of over.
So maybe all we can do is be as diligent as we can and patiently put the facts before people ?
It is interesting that the disputes are being aired (Hitchens on with Piers Mental today, the articles in the Sun, the Times, the Telegraph, the interview with Lord Sumption etc.), isn’t it? Pressure valve ? I dunno.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:24 PM
Reply to  crank

“I still believe that ultimately the spin machine cannot hide the facts ”

Tht’s my opinion too, and it is what I meant in another comment when I said that our rulers only have a window of opportunity to do whatever they want to do.

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 12:55 AM
Reply to  Loverat

WE won’t get any credit loverat what usually happens when we end up being proven correct is the doubters will eventually accept it and end up still being called evil scumbags for being correct BEFORE everyone else clicked on! This happens to me on the time! A slight positive is today my local shops were rammed packed today so hopefully some have caught on already

kroohh
kroohh
Mar 31, 2020 6:03 PM
Reply to  Reg

Hospitals are being overburdened on the areas where this virus has been allowed to spread the most, and people are dying as result even more. What more evidence you need that this is something that needs to be taken seriously? We can argue about some details and statistics forever.

crank
crank
Mar 31, 2020 6:23 PM
Reply to  kroohh

Kroohh,
This is just shrill and completely ignores the many thousands of words of arguments made on this website over the past weeks.
This is being taken seriously, by Bhakdi, by Offguardian and by me. If you just wave the hand at facts and details then I suggest that it is you who is not taking it seriously.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:26 PM
Reply to  kroohh

Can you support that argument please with data and sources?

Which hospital?

How many patients?

etc.

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 1:00 AM
Reply to  kroohh

Krooh i Live in north east England and my local hospitals can be described as:
Cramlington A&E: empty
Rake lane: empty
Newcastle Freeman: empty
Newcastle rvi: empty
WAnsbeck: empty
WHERe are the videos of people dropping like the fake videos from China (many from japan from years ago)?
Where are the sick nurses in huge numbers? I don’t know anyone who’s got coronavirus! AND neither do you

kroohh
kroohh
Apr 1, 2020 1:37 PM
Reply to  Koba

So you area has not been hit with the virus yet, good for you, hopefully it remains that way. You have not seen videos coming from hospitals in Italy, or now in NYC where they are carrying bodies to freezer trucks? All these are actors and part of some global grand conspiracy?

Jane
Jane
Mar 31, 2020 6:04 PM
Reply to  Reg

I mentioned in another post, relating to the attitude of MoA to coronavirus, that people who provide an alternative to the mainstream view on “hard” issues such as Syria, Russia, Scottish independence, etc., don’t take much interest in alternative health, which they probably see as a “fluffy” subject that attracts cranks. How many take the trouble to find out, for example, that cholesterol is friend not foe, that saturated fat is good for you, that current dietary advice to base your meals on starchy foods leads to overweight, obesity, diabetes and other health problems, and that your best ally against infectious disease is a healthy immune system? Hence we should not be surprised when someone who denounces the White Helmets, for example, longs for a vaccine against this virus to be developed.

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 31, 2020 7:05 PM
Reply to  Jane

Agreed, Jane.

One of my favourite alternative health sites has been Mike Adams, at naturalnews.com

He’s gone into full authoritarian overload on this issue though, which is a great pity. His health foods products are still top class though.

Jane
Jane
Mar 31, 2020 8:37 PM
Reply to  JohnB

The Weston Price Foundation is not bad. Malcolm Kendrick, who normally writes about heart disease, also has interesting points to make about the current situation. https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/03/29/a-health-economic-perspective-on-covid-19/

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 7:15 PM
Reply to  Jane

“Scottish independence”

Murray again?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:31 PM
Reply to  Jane

Jane,,

I agree with the point you make.

However, we are not talking here about alternative health or indeed anything ‘fluffy’. Quite the contrary – we are talking a hard-nosed data and sources approach.

I’m speculating, but I think the cause of the discrepancy you highlight is that the writers you are talking about fall into the frame of – the West is bad, China, Iran and Russia are good.

The covid-19 issue lies outside of that paradigm

Jane
Jane
Mar 31, 2020 8:34 PM
Reply to  clickkid

That had occurred to me. I was going to add that MoA, for example, takes a pro-Russia position. That is not in itself a bad thing, and brings balance to the Russia-bad bias of mainstream news, but Russia seems to have a conventional view of health so as you say from the point of view MoA and others “there is nothing to see here.”

Koba
Koba
Apr 1, 2020 1:02 AM
Reply to  Jane

Jane are you pro white helmets or something?

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 10:41 AM
Reply to  Koba

Koba

I think what Jane is saying is that there are some alt-media sites that will [rightly] denounce the White Helmets but then in their next edition (so to speak) will go along with the establishment pro-vaccine brigade without interrogation of the facts.

Jane
Jane
Apr 7, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Thanks, JudyJ. I have been compiling a folder of comments and noticed that what I said about MoA could be misconstrued without that adjective which you kindly added.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 7:28 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

So are you agreeing with this or disagreeing dungroanin?

The less we have of this lot sniffing around the better IMO. Giving them more power is not a good thing.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

I agree with the article I quoted, and with Caitlin’s – they speak to the truth.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:31 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

They express their opinion and you agree with them.

Willem
Willem
Mar 31, 2020 5:27 PM
Reply to  crank

it might be that someone in her own surroundings got sick, maybe badly, which was attributed to Covid-19, perhaps rightly diagnosed.

Then she developed symptoms herself: dry cough, fever, short of breath.

Then, if you are a hypochondriac, you start to believe that the story on Covid 19 might actually be real

Then you start looking for confirmation that Covid 19 is the real killer virus. That part is easy and actually you will find a lot more gruesome details in your search than only confirmation!

Since the symptoms can last weeks, you remain to believe that this Covid 19 thing is true as long as you have symptoms

If that happened to Johnstone, I cannot blame her for her ideas of what is going on. Same thing almost happened to me last week!

But the cure was close by and that cure is: scientific fact

The numbers that are reported are from hospitalized patients

Those who die have (severe) comorbidity

All indications point out towards that this Covid 19 is not more serious than influenza

Perhaps I should give links where you can find the solid statistics and the true risk. but since we all read OffG, I assume that is not necessary…

Perceived risk=true risk+imaginary risk

The imaginary risk will melt away like a dream when you wake up, and focus on the true risk and the true risk only.

Time for Caitlin to wake up.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Mar 31, 2020 5:49 PM
Reply to  Willem

A view fostered by the mass media. If they are your source – as they are for the vast majority – you are stuck in that mindset. An article in our local paper today was a lengthy human-interest story about one 42-year-old woman in Montreal for whom the virus was “worse than any flu,” “wracked with coughs that left her gasping for breath, burning up with fever.” No mention that COVID-10 generally is mild, with few, sometimes no, symptoms. The rule for the media: focus on an individual. Only individuals merit empathy; one person can make real statistics irrelevant.

I have never seen such an article about the yearly flu, even though each of us could talk about the worst flu experience we’ve ever had, mirroring – or worse than – the one described.

I didn’t expect Johnstone to be taken in. Quelle surprise.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 11:11 PM
Reply to  nondimenticare

The trouble as well is that a large proportion of the population have probably never had real flu in their lives. How often do we hear people say “I had the flu last week and had to take a couple of days off work”. “No, dear, you had a cold”. I am over sixty and can guarantee that I’ve only had flu once in my life, about two years ago. It wasn’t a serious bout but I could barely get out of bed for about five days. I know it could have been a lot worse.

I had a bad cough many years ago that lasted for about eight weeks. Because I was young then and didn’t smoke and was fit and not overweight, I just soldiered on and recovered with no medical intervention because I knew it was a virus of some sort and would go eventually. I think I’ve only ever taken a course of antibiotics maybe twice in my lifetime. I’ve never been to hospital. I was brought up to believe that you only bothered the doctor if you were literally dying and even then you had to apologise for bothering them! A hypochondriac friend of mine goes to his GP on average every fortnight…there isn’t a part of his body that hasn’t been prodded or scanned. There’s never anything found of course and he always recovers in a few days. He said to me once “You’re lucky, you have good health”. Not true. I have no better health than he does, but I refuse to make a song and a dance over every little passing ailment.

Many younger people tend to be so self-absorbed that they only judge ailments by their own personal perception and experience of their severity. So when people complain about their ‘Covid-19 symptoms’ and then describe the symptoms that gave them ‘no choice’ but to go to hospital I’m afraid I generally have little sympathy. They are the ones putting any pressure on A&E departments.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 1, 2020 11:27 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

JudyJ – in my late 20’s (many years ago now, many!) i was diagnosed with the flu whilst on a skiing holiday. I was bed bound all week, had a delerius fever, high temperature and cannot remember too much about it. I do know though that I was in bed with duvets etc and one minute I was literally boiling hot and the next I was shivering cold. On return home I still had a chesty cough, which then went and kept recurring for a further six months bring back slight fever with it at periodic intervals. That’s my experience of the flu so you are right when you say most of the population probably haven’t really experienced real flu. I know it took over a year to rid myself of the recurring chest problems.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 12:23 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

Jo

Your experience sounds really bad.

I don’t know if you are familiar with the old adage about diagnosing flu: if you see a ten pound note lying [let’s say, for topicality purposes…!] 6 feet away from you and you can’t muster even the desire to pick it up, then you most likely have flu.

😀

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  Willem

“Since the symptoms can last weeks”

Vague!

That’s not what the nhs advice was saying. It said just one week of self isolation.

One way of prolonging this is to say that those who test positive don’t recover for weeks on end. That way they can keep the figures for recoveries low.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:57 PM
Reply to  Willem

“Time for Caitlin to wake up.”

I went off her when she wrote an article in which she told her readers about the time she bought her first vibrator. (True).

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:33 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

John that’s hilarious.

Link please!

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:32 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I tried, but admin seems to have removed it. Was published on her site in November 2018.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 12:29 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Call me old fashioned, I’m blushing just reading the title, and I definitely can’t bring myself to open the link! 😉

Reg
Reg
Apr 1, 2020 1:09 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

Oh dear, that’s so . . . Guardiany

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 9:46 PM
Reply to  Willem

Now Willem you are not someone who I’d have taken to be so judgemental of science – of which we are not done and settled yet.

For instance – of the hundred and whatever full genomes that were mapped by Chinese scientists quite early from various countries- there was already evidence of multiple evolutions of the virus.

Some were more lethal and all were aggressively transmitted.

Until we get a few thousand tests from all geographic outbreaks and the further back we can track it – we are not in a position to make a judgment on its danger or origin and future trajectory.

So while fully agreeing with your assessment on co-morbidity and the rush to judge all fatalities as caused by covid because n-cov was also found – we must recognise that some strains maybe worse than others.

Caitlin can never be accused of being asleep on a issue. Her piece is not claiming what many here seem to think. My reading is that she is mainly calling out the msm and their agenda in trying to shut down alternative views in the alt-media using the same methods of narrative control they did in the perpetration of the War on Terror.

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 31, 2020 5:46 PM
Reply to  crank

Citing stories of overwhelming health centres is not strong evidence. Im surprised anyone would think that. Facts and figures are evidence. The family GP on GMB was also citing this today and posing as some great expert. These people are not scientists or authorities who record data related to admissions. As we have read here, much of what is going on even in Italy can be explained by the way stats reported, demograghics , pollution, elderly population and other factors. Haven’t read Caitlin much on this except seeing a few disagreements on Twitter. Some of what she says above looks a bit like backtracking or hedging her bets in case she is proven substantially wrong .

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 1:17 AM
Reply to  crank

Caitlin accused me of being rather horrible things because I point out Chelsea Manning is an intelligence asset and that the Collateral Murder video is faked – backed by impeccable evidence of course.

She also makes the claim that anyone who thinks they know what happened on 9/11 is an idiot but, in fact, the evidence is extremely clear that it was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise comprising many smaller exercises and drills. As if the US government would kill 3,000 of their citizens (who would all have loved ones jumping up and down) like that when they could so easily fake it and when so many people had to be involved like all the journalists on the day speaking in scripted manner of controlled demolition in this ever-so-professional music video, Free Fallin’, made by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth whose mission is to focus everyone on controlled demolition to divert from two very important lies of 9/11, namely, the crashes of four airliners and the deaths of 3,000 with injury to 6,000.

9/11 was a psyop just as this the COVID-19 pandemic is a psyop and both events have similar hallmarks including “amazing miracle survivors”.
Here a 90-year-old woman talks about her miracle survival with the help of potato soup while a 52-year-old man who’d been gaspin’ for breath and thought his days were done underwent miraculous recovery with the help of chloroquine recommended by a friend.

Caitlin can be an evidence-based thinker when it suits her but evidence-based thinking flies out the window when the evidence contradict her prejudices and beliefs which means ultimately she is not an evidence-based thinker. Unfortunately this characteristic applies to many people, including those who claim vehemently that they are evidence-based thinkers.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 10:55 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

As if the US government would kill 3,000 of their citizens (who would all have loved ones jumping up and down)

over 7000 US soldiers have been killed outright in the Terror War, which everybody who is paying attention knows was initiated on fake pretexts.

(or do you claim that the war is fake, and nobody has died? are you sure you really exist? — maybe you’re fake too.)

are any significant number of their relatives jumping up and down? have any government officials been prosecuted for war crimes? have the war crimes stopped, or do they continue to this day?

amazing miracle survivors

given that elderly people with serious health problems are rather commonly finished off by ordinary flu, why does it strike you as outrageous that a few of them might have nearly died, but eventually recovered? is it your claim that everybody in the world must either be in perfect health or dead, and that anybody who claims some intermediate condition must be faking it?

the only evidence you believe in is that which you have manufactured out of your own imagination, which rather unsurprisingly tends to support your own idiotic theories.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 11:46 AM
Reply to  milosevic

over 7000 US soldiers have been killed outright in the Terror War, which everybody who is paying attention knows was initiated on fake pretexts.

But people can accept their governments killing their own soldiers (as do the soldiers themselves) in phony wars; leaving them in buildings to be killed in controlled demolitions is a completely different scenario.

Why do you always bring up the same point over and over again? Can’t you see the massive difference between killing people in the buildings and sending soldiers off to war – another way they kill them is in hospital and over-prescribing. I mean, sure they kill us in lots of ways. FFS. Please do not bring up this point again, milo, it so utterly tedious. I keep saying over and over again, yes, I know governments kill their own people. I recognise it but if you tell people that the government is killing their own soldiers in phony wars they just nod – if you tell them that they killed the people in the buildings they can’t come at it.

Miracle survivors
It’s in the presentation – it’s the secret-weapon potato soup and then the second survivor, a 52 year old saved by chloroquine. The guy was gaspin’ and thought his days were done and then … chloroquine to the rescue!

Can you confirm you believe that the 52-year-old guy was at near death and saved by chloroquine? Please confirm that you believe that story, milo.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 11:00 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

It’s hardly a miracle. Around 85% of over 80s recover from the infection. (Source: China CDC weekly Feb 2020.)

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 11:50 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

Yes, John, but the 52-year-old said he was gaspin’ and at death’s door and then saved by chloroquine. Do you believe that?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 4:28 PM

‘Beer’ posted this further down. I think it deserves to be highlighted:

Rwanda likewise has shot people who break their lockdown https://www.softpower.ug/covid-19-rwanda-police-shoots-2-people-dead-for-defying-lockdown/

Rwanda has its first 2 Covid-19 victims.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 10:57 AM
Reply to  clickkid

— shot dead for their own good; otherwise they might have contracted a mild flu.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 31, 2020 3:41 PM

Okay…
I’ll be the first to admit it…
I need a hug!!

Drove to the market this morning, but before exiting the car I psyched myself down… See, I have this new regimen I employ now before exiting the vehicle… I remind myself – “You now live in Bizzaro World, where the normal is not, and the not is normal… Expect the unexpected, and please don’t react to it…”

I swear, I never even made it into the market before ‘old Steve’ emerged, ignoring everything I just told myself…

You see, I spotted this woman in the parking lot sitting in a motorized riding cart with a large metal basket in front… It’s a motorized shopping cart for those who can’t easily walk and shop… Her basket was loaded with grocery bags, and she was struggling to unload them from her seat… She was older than I…

So I changed course, approaching her as I said, “Ma’am, can I help you with that?”

She didn’t reply verbally, at first, but instead extended her arm and hand, giving me the universal sign for STOP! 🤚
I stopped dead in my tracks (thankfully still 2 mtrs apart) as she said, “Don’t come any closer! I can manage, thanks.”

Hey, at least she said “thanks”…

And it occured to me, among all the real and terrible things out there these days to be outraged over (and they are many, and I am!), the loss of society’s favorite way to communicate without words has me beyond outraged…!! A hug, a handshake, a kiss on the cheek, a pat on the back, a high five, a knowing touch, or glance, or smile… All ways of saying “good to see you”, “glad you’re here”, ” I love you”, “I missed you”, ” I appreciate you”, “Thank you”, “Hello”, “Goodbye” are now verboten, the sign of a bad citizen, illegal, socially unacceptable…

I not only miss giving and getting all of the above, but I also miss seeing it in others…

If this is my future, you can inject me now, ’cause I’ll never fit in…

Ted
Ted
Mar 31, 2020 4:29 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Steve, it’s worse than just missing these things, but it is my understanding that these social contacts are an important part of human well-being, stress reduction, and healthy immune functioning. The stress causes by the sudden Bizarro order to not engage in human contact is likely to make more people ill, adding fuel to an already panicked population. What the new dictators and their Rasputin’s (Fauci) have instituted is beyond cruel, it is frankly evil.

Here’s to hoping that a corrective counter move is soon to emerge from folks in everyday communities. At some point, people are going to start noticing that things are nowhere near as scary as the media and, here in the US, Rasputin Fauci or Czar Donald claim. Well except for the poverty, starvation, homelessness, unemployment, depression, and repressed anger that this insane policy is producing minute by minute.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 5:16 PM
Reply to  Ted

It’s certainly not doing my blood pressure any good! People have completely lost the ability to talk or acknowledge your existence at a distance of 6 feet. I have to fight the temptation to shout at them “Hello! Yes, I’m here!” People seem to have slotted into the new regime remarkably and disturbingly easily, almost as if they’ve been waiting all their lives for someone to legitimise an innate desire to remain isolated from society. When you do get someone to react they make a point of not mentioning, and indeed avoiding talking about, the bizarre and unnatural control measures…almost as if they are of no consequence whatsoever. Most peculiar.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 31, 2020 6:01 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Most peculiar indeed! Amazing to me how so many, so quickly, turned off something that was so 2nd nature to them prior to cov… As if it never really mattered… Can’t get my head around that…

Jane
Jane
Mar 31, 2020 6:24 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I feel like Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby. You want to shout : “I’ll teach you to say howdy to respectable folks!” It is probably far better for your blood pressure to believe what you are told and follow the social-distancing crowd. The play “Rhinoceros” makes this point very well. All the characters become wild animals (a metaphor for fascists) except one, a sad loser in normal life, who would love to be like everyone else, but not at the price of his humanity. A less highbrow comparison might be “Zombie Apocalypse.”

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 11:10 AM
Reply to  Ted

At some point, people are going to start noticing that things are nowhere near as scary as the media claim.

— at which point they will be sternly scolded, or actually threatened, by the Proper Authorities.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 5:12 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Maggie Thatcher started it here forty years ago with her ‘there is no such thing as society’
This is the last phase of that brainwashing- ‘social distancing’ is your only hope of survival.

Same old same old – divide and rule – steve.

If people internalise this philosophy then they will have delivered the future generations to be just the easily manipulated ‘unit’ of cost/profit all in tidy little personal physical/emotional and thought boxes.

Civilian Authority and civilians need to prepare to defend themselves from themselves.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 31, 2020 6:04 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Yes, Groanin, this really is nothing new… Over time the cast keeps changing, but the message remains the same.

no picnic
no picnic
Mar 31, 2020 10:30 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Those who are proud to be ‘fiercely independent’, now have the full force of the law behind them!

Neoliberalism is the real virus.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Mar 31, 2020 5:24 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Bless you, Steve. It has come to something when the “secret handshake” is an act of resistance, not something practised amongst the brothers..

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 31, 2020 6:05 PM
Reply to  Daniel Spaniel

Hadn’t even thought of that…!
Spot on, DS… 🤝

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:49 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

I sympathise, but these days if you asked for these things even before cv19:

“A hug, a handshake, a kiss on the cheek, a pat on the back, a high five, a knowing touch, or glance, or smile”

You would have stood a good chance of being arrested for assault.

Maybe we will actually grow to miss these things and if this nightmare ever ends there could be a resurgence.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Mar 31, 2020 6:18 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

John, I disagree (perhaps your cynicism is showing…?)

Pre cv-19 I never asked for contact, it just happened… I never saw others ask for it, it just happened… Naive me has always thought that such contact, long taken for granted, helped keep us buoyant in both good and bad times…
Judging by how quickly (and apparently) agreeably the masses have discarded all social contact, I was obviously wrong… And therein lies the horror for me…
Thanks for your reply.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:09 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

“Judging by how quickly (and apparently) agreeably the masses have discarded all social contact, I was wrong”

Chin up Steve – if you feel that way, so do hundreds of millions of others.

Droves of us walking around – thinking it’s only ourselves who feel that way.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 7:17 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

That’s okay Steve. I’m a middle aged single man who has generally found it difficult to succeed in relationships. I find women to be very hard to please.

no picnic
no picnic
Mar 31, 2020 10:43 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

According the innovators at the Guardian, an independent woman does not want (or need) men’s attention. They end up relying on anti-depressants to fill the gap.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 11:25 AM
Reply to  no picnic

comment image

paul
paul
Apr 3, 2020 2:33 PM
Reply to  no picnic

And cats.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Johnsame boat but a woman!!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Apr 1, 2020 1:14 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

🤣
I found they like to think they are hard to please and they like to see us fail – something Cleopatraish or Salomeish.

Once you are prepared to suffer these slings and arrows of a futile battle to please, life becomes simpler and the occasional daily humiliation is worth it for an imperfect but worthwhile existence – no body gets what they want all the time.

Sorry for that cod-philosophy. Feel free to ignore it.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Mar 31, 2020 9:31 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Maybe if you were a Scottish politician….

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 11:18 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

“..if you asked for these things…”

Maybe it’s the way you ask, John! 😉

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 11:02 AM
Reply to  SteveEss

the loss of society’s favorite way to communicate without words has me beyond outraged…!!

don’t worry too much, it’s only stupid people that you are now forbidden to interact with. if you imagine that stupidity is a contagious disease, maybe you can convince yourself that it’s by your own choice.

Rise
Rise
Mar 31, 2020 3:28 PM

The Australian government announced giving between a $1,100 and $1,500 a fortnight for the unemployed.

Today, the NSW government announced a kind of a curfew with a penalty of $11,000 for flouting the latest self-isolation rules. The penalty of $11,000 is equivalent to around four to five months worth of the unemployment benefit. The $11,000 penalty is calculated for each day of non-compliance, e.g. the penalty will be $22,000 for 2 days of misbehaving.

The message is 1. We pay you, 2. You disband and stay home and

3. OBEY!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 31, 2020 3:28 PM

Let’s work backwards.

They want to institute global fascist rule.
How they gonna do it?
Phoney-baloney public health-scare.
What’ll be? Virus pandemic.
We’ll tell ’em there’s a “novel” virus out there killin’ people and they must wear masks, keep distance, stay indoors, not gather, get takeaway and other BS to “keep each other safe”.
Loads of people will lose their jobs, businesses will fail, the world will change as we know it – all due to a phoney-baloney health-scare.

A doddle.
Doncha love it?

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 4:07 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Well they may have thought that Petra, but they have unleashed numerous cascades of consequences which are uncontrollable and unpredictable.

This is perhaps the best place for me to say that the elites are not united, they don’t have it all worked out,and they are not trying to institute a new world order but trying to save the one they have tried to implement.

The world is messy, chaotic and unpredictable.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 4:17 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

One question:

Why do they want to institute global Fascist rule?

The world is much easier to rule with a simulacram of democracy, where one can sponsor different parties and absorb opposition. To institute global Fascist rule is to invite resistance.

In addition to that the loss of freedom in such a world leads to less prosperity, which means less prosperity for them to skim off the top.

Which is why I say that if they are trying to Institute Fascist rule then only as a last resort because the current system is going down. Yes, they are trying to keep control.

I also doubt the ‘global’ part of your statement, because this episode, if anything, is leading to a corrosion of globalist structures such as the EU.

Waldorf
Waldorf
Mar 31, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  clickkid

A classic Marxist interpretation is that fascism is what capitalism resorts to in crisis.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 1, 2020 11:37 AM
Reply to  Waldorf

previous episodes of fascism required the deployment of millions of trained militia, Hitler’s brownshirts or Mussolini’s blackshirts, to violently suppress all public resistance.

in the New World Order which has been quietly instituted over the last forty years, all they have to do is tell people that invisible evil spirits are flying through the air, and they must cower in their houses, and everybody meekly complies.

O brave new world, that has such people in it!

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 7:43 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Just to clarify,

I think fascism is being instituted, but not as some knd of optimal endpoint, but because their system is falling apart.

ie – a sign of weakness rather than strength, and I think it is transitional.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 1, 2020 11:53 AM
Reply to  clickkid

I really don’t know what the aim is, it’s so monumental what’s happening, but I do know it’s a massive psyop and fascist controls are in place for the moment.

Marvin Arbiton
Marvin Arbiton
Mar 31, 2020 3:07 PM

A few days ago it was all over the news that a healthy 21 year old in the UK had died of Corvid-19 – they just used a quote from her family as evidence. The story disappeared as quickly as it came as it turns out she died of a heart attack but because she had some slight symptoms before hand – the coroner included a possibility of Corvid-19 as her cause of death !!

Ted
Ted
Mar 31, 2020 4:33 PM
Reply to  Marvin Arbiton

Moreover, we will never know whether the extreme stress and panic generated by this moment of mass insanity pushed her body over the edge, causing the heart failure. I would bet a fortnight’s wage that it did.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 5:18 PM
Reply to  Ted

If not her, then plenty of others to come.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 11:51 PM
Reply to  Marvin Arbiton

Marvin much as people are going to disagree eith me it’s all this obsession with diet diet diet where people don’t get enough nutrients enough fats enough carbs get ill with long term conditions ue to a lack of a proper healthy dietary intake. Never mind though being under weight or skinny seems to be ok despite the onset of serious health conditions. We are a country in denial.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 8:06 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

You are right, Jo. And interestingly one of the deceased girl’s relatives posted something on Facebook (where else?) about how carefree she had been and “the only thing she worried about in her life was whether she looked bloated” – a rather odd thing to put on Facebook in the circumstances but that seems to be par for the course these days.

Rise
Rise
Mar 31, 2020 2:31 PM

Reality BITES.

Limiting and banning social gathering means you can no longer communicate face-to-face.

All alternatives to face-to-face communications are basically tracked and recorded .. for eternity. All text message, emails and the rest of it are all stored somewhere. At the very least, communications metadata (from, to, date, duration, locations details) are stored somewhere in easily retrievable form.

Are we seeing Unintended Consequences of the new virus Crisis or that what was designed for us all along?

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 31, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Rise

The isolation also makes it easier to impose any perception of reality that the PTB wants.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:43 PM
Reply to  George Mc

What’s PTB George?

George Mc
George Mc
Mar 31, 2020 8:14 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Powers that be.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  George Mc

lol, I knew it would be something I ought to have known!

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:43 PM
Reply to  Rise

“Limiting and banning social gathering means you can no longer communicate face-to-face.”

You can, but it’s more distant.

no picnic
no picnic
Mar 31, 2020 10:03 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

“You can, but it’s more distant”

Yes, but people need to justify why they are there and they must finish quickly and ‘go home’. Looking at the news, the new regulations are getting worse by the day.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 10:40 PM
Reply to  no picnic

Yes, a fair point. It depends also on where in the world you are. I haven’t seen many police about where I live in the UK up to now.

Reg
Reg
Mar 31, 2020 1:33 PM

I’d just like to put this out there:

Isn’t Piers Moron a pathetic piece of shit?

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:16 PM
Reply to  Reg

Reg, I think you are putting it way too politely!! He appears to be suffering from messianic tendencies and has lost the plot as far as I can tell. He is a gutter presstitue with the brain the size of an ameoba on a rat and is revelling in this at the moment. The man is not only a truly pathetic piece of s**t but an ignorant, bumbling, idiot who thinks he’s got something to say – the only thing is that something is garbage, unmitigated garbage.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 3:31 PM
Reply to  Reg

He’s a Gate Keeper.

Paul2
Paul2
Mar 31, 2020 3:51 PM
Reply to  jay

A gate keeper who has discovered it actually pays very well indeed.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:39 PM
Reply to  Reg

You’ve much too kind Reg.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:40 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

You’re

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 6:24 PM
Reply to  Reg

He always was as anybody from the Murdoch stable.
He fucked over the Mirror when he got caught for insider dealing with his City Slickers.
He was fully aware of phone hacking and instrumental in the paparazzi hounding of celebs – especially Lady Di.
A rite piece of work.

Jane
Jane
Mar 31, 2020 6:43 PM
Reply to  Reg

I presume you’re referring to the Good Morning Britain segment with Peter Hitchens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4xsk-SMA_8&app=desktop
This is what Peter Hitchens says about it on his blog.
“(T)he discussion, though dogged by all the problems one might expect from Piers Morgan and his colleague Susanna Reid, and a couple of others brought on to say I am an idiot, is I think worthwhile. Piers is not as frightening as he thinks he is and he knows less than he thinks he does, so any independent viewer would have learned quite a lot. It is the first time a major TV news programme has really explored the possibility that there might even be dissent over this policy. A lot of people would have been surprised by that alone. Alas, the shutdown of the country and the destruction of thousands of businesses and millions of jobs are, in my experience, quite popular, for now, and this is not a good time to be criticising them.

When the savage bill comes in, and becomes clear, I am not sure the mood will be same, but it will be far, far too late by then, so this is the time to speak. Ultimately I’m grateful to Piers for the chance.”

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 11:33 PM
Reply to  Jane

PH must be admired for retaining his composure and dignity in the face of appalling abuse for his resolute stance. Like the rest of us, he has veracity on his side which is a great motivator. The irony is that he is fighting the fight not only for the benefit of those who know what he says is right, but also for the human rights of those who abuse him and are ignorant of the facts. When the truth is known I hope they will have the dignity to apologise to him unreservedly.

Reg
Reg
Apr 1, 2020 1:42 AM
Reply to  Jane

Hitchens is such a decent human being. Makes me ashamed to get sweary at people.

livingsb
livingsb
Mar 31, 2020 6:56 PM
Reply to  Reg

I completely embarrassed that he is an Arsenal fan. Come to think of it, I’m embarrassed that I’m an Arsenal fan.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 9:40 PM
Reply to  livingsb

Arsenal haven’t lost a game in the last two weeks.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 1, 2020 1:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

We’re still 25 points clear at the top ! 🙂

sabelmouse
sabelmouse
Mar 31, 2020 1:28 PM

and who will listen? people actually refuse to inform themselves. there’s not even need for censorship. that brainwashed they are.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 1:33 PM
Reply to  sabelmouse

Well over a million views in Germany so far.

It’s early days yet.

Wait until:

People start getting poorer and poorer

and ..

They see the modest numbers of those affected – by covid-19

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi
Mar 31, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Hmm, no government that has destroyed its own economy and thrown millions out of work has any incentive to report moderate numbers. Expect them to manipulate data to make Covid19 look as bad as possible to cover up their own incompetence and atrocious decision making.
There are rumours circulating that in the UK any suspected Covid19 cases in the elderly are being designated DNR by default, irrespective of the wishes of patient or family. Presumably this will inflate the number of fatalities to match regime incompetence.
Meanwhile there is a financial crisis ongoing – nothing to do with Covid19 but it is being used as a pretext for government bailouts that make Credit Crunch 1.0 look like a walk in the park.

clickkid
clickkid
Mar 31, 2020 2:37 PM

“Hmm, no government that has destroyed its own economy and thrown millions out of work has any incentive to report moderate numbers”

People will notice:

Bert: “Anyone in your fanily died of covid19”

Bill: “No – what about you”?

Bert: “No, me neither”

This is a psyop enhance by popular hysteria, and as such is all about perception management. The same mechanisms – electronic media – which have faciliated the intensification of hysteria, are also those which can be used to disseminate the truth. However, psyops are not all-powerful, but have an expiration date, allowing their authors only a window of opportunity in which to achieve their goals.

The psyop is only a tool to achieve something else.

Marvin Arbiton
Marvin Arbiton
Mar 31, 2020 3:04 PM

And when they want the data to drop – watch them put all the Corvid-19 cases down as influenza deaths ! They will then turn around and say – “look we magically cured Corvid-19” !!!

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:22 PM
Reply to  Marvin Arbiton

Marvin when I managed to escape my flat today (I guess not only the thought police but the Derbyshire police are probably already on my tail) I did notice that there is some suggestion now filtering through on Yahoo and other MSM outlets that miraculously, the numbers are beginning to fall. Wait until the Easter Weekend – only a couple of weeks away – I predict the Sheeples are going to get ugly and start reacting to house arrest – especially when Universal Credit isn’t paying them.

Ted
Ted
Mar 31, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

Jo, I think this is right. We are already seeing miraculous news out of Italy that things are suddenly looking brighter! (See https://swprs.org/). The “epidemic” was always created by (1) “discovering” a new disease causing entity, (2) creating a magic test for that entity, and (3) ramping up use of that test as a grand international effort since the start of March. We have since reached the upper limit of how many tests can actually be processed in a given day. Thus the epidemic is or soon will be magically peaking or in sharp decline as flu season ends. I expect here in the US Czar Donald will soon announce the “Good News” for Easter that things worked much faster than expected and it is now safe to leave our homes or soon will be. Sadly, many will discover that few local businesses have survived.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:27 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

I expect the figures in the UK to rise today. They are fiddling, sorry amending the figures by including people that die “in the community” and who test positive for cv19.

That’s the bad news. The good news is they can only do that once.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 6:47 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

It’s going to ramp up the panic, especially amongst the older generation: Media headlines: Fit elderly people can die from Coronavirus in their homes with no warning’.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:19 PM

Domestic, great post. I do hope the British Sheeples, in their isolation, start to shake off the brainwashing and start looking at facts and figures.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:35 PM

“Expect them to manipulate data to make Covid19 look as bad as possible to cover up their own incompetence and atrocious decision making.”

Strongly agree. They are adjusting the figures in the UK today to include corpses that test positive for cv19 “in the community” not just in hospital as at present.

Thank God for cremations or they’d be digging up the dead next.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:17 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Clickkid – yep, I think Cabin fever is already starting to take hold. We need more sites like these, more Peter Hitchins and Craig Murray’s to keep challenging this and getting the truth out there.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 12:40 PM

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 12:30 PM

I urge every readet who receives the letter from Bozo to not open it and post it back marked as

Return to sender
10 Downing Street
SW1A

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 31, 2020 1:20 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

As we’re down here in Australia (myself, Richard Le Sarc, Jen, Fair Dinkum, Capricorn Man, Petra Livaeni, and others) thankfully we won’t be receiving such crap in our mail box.
Why’s the chinless dipwad writing to you all? Reassurance his Govt is doing a sterling job combating the pandemic?

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 1:31 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I’m betting Bozo Stalin will demand an additional 2 weeks when this 3 weeks finishes…
The Quacks of Doom are quacking that we need more pain…

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:24 PM
Reply to  jay

Jay Great, for once in their lives the sheeples might just revolt, I know I will.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 3:34 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

God Bless

John Pretty
John Pretty
Mar 31, 2020 5:23 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

lol, I’m already revolting.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 31, 2020 10:10 PM
Reply to  jay

As if they care how much pain your ordinary Joe & Jane Smith will be going thru… They only pretend to care at election time.
You’ve got about another 10 days of lockdown? So much is happening, its hard to keep up.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Mar 31, 2020 3:23 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

No Gezzah because he has a serious case of delusional thinking inasmcuh as he believes we believe in him and trust him – him being a pathological liar and all.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Mar 31, 2020 5:01 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Yup Gezzah its a PR exercise just like his infection ‘in the front line’.
Aimed at deflecting blame from him and the tories for their obsession in perpetrating brexit for the last decade instead of dealing with real stuff for the many not his few bosses and the deepstate
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/uk-security-services-face-some-awkward-questions-when-pandemic-over/

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 31, 2020 10:18 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Thanks for the link D. Someone here said that video of Dr Bhakdi had already had 1 million views in 30 hrs. Needs to be circulated as widely as possible.

sabelmouse
sabelmouse
Mar 31, 2020 1:29 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

orcomment image?fbclid=IwAR0_bw1hyhpciANY2TkSHLxOXeb-dUaIgZw1gBg3rC1REvnlaQFTlqpG8i0

Reg
Reg
Mar 31, 2020 1:34 PM
Reply to  sabelmouse

I wish I could put a string of laugh emojis on here. That made me splutter.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 3:36 PM
Reply to  sabelmouse

Too late…it is truely awful.

Magggie
Magggie
Mar 31, 2020 1:55 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Good idea DunG, £6’000’000,000 wasted which could have gone to the NHS?
Prof Sucharit Bhandi is never going to make an appearance on our TV’s or in out newspapers..so that information will slowly disappear.
I realised something yesterday, after speaking to three ‘old’ friends. That the reason there is so little dissent is because they don’t have computers on which to research. They rely solely on social media and corrupt MSM headlines.. arguing that all the Governments of the world would not be singing from the same hymn sheet? Try explaining the New World Order to children?
I made myself hoarse trying to inform them in as short a time possible, because they do not have the capacity to listen and absorb if it takes more than five minutes.. this really saddened me to realise that millions of people are being corralled in this manner, because of their lack of technology.
I have been without my computer for week and am having to rely on my tablet, which is absolutely frustrating me. I don’t know when I will be able to get it sorted.. the fan is not working properly so it keeps switch ing itself off? If any of you tech heads can help me I would be very grateful. All my research is on there.. thousands of files, and I am like a woman with one arm tied behind my back. I can’t save anything on here,, and now have 175 emails????
Help…

milosevic
milosevic
Mar 31, 2020 2:07 PM
Reply to  Magggie

— take the malfunctioning fan to a computer store, and ask for a replacement. it’s probably held in place with some spring clips, and the power cable can just be unplugged. remember what you did to remove it, so that you can do it in reverse with the replacement part. if it’s the CPU fan, you might need to also replace the thermal transfer pad, which should come with the new fan.

if all else fails, and you need new computer hardware, you won’t lose any of your files, as long as the old hard drive is still functional.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 31, 2020 5:30 PM
Reply to  milosevic

take the malfunctioning fan to a computer store

I think I see a fundamental flaw in this suggestion! 😀

JohnB
JohnB
Mar 31, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Sometimes hoovering around the back/sides helps.

jay
jay
Mar 31, 2020 3:52 PM
Reply to  Magggie

It’s hard to say without seeing it.
I take it, it is the processor fan…If it stops then the machine will detect the failure and switch off. If the processor overheats, then this will be detected and a shutdown will occur.
1. Check for obstructions like a cable. I