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WATCH: Perspectives on the Pandemic #3 “Is Our Fight Against the Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?”

Journeyman Pictures sits down with Dr David L Katz to discuss an end to social distancing, the time-frame of vaccine development, and if the current cure may be worse than the disease.

The Interviewer: John Kirby is the director of FOUR DIED TRYING, a feature documentary and series on the major assassinations of the 1960’s and their calamitous impact on the country. To join the struggle for justice for Dr. King, Malcolm X, and John and Robert Kennedy.

The Interviewee: Dr David L Katz is an American physician and former professor of public health. He has authored over one hundred academic papers, and is the former director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center and associate director for nutrition science at the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity at Yale.

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David
David
May 18, 2020 9:25 PM

The problem with these interviews is their point of departure begins with the false premises that the virus exists and is causing illness and death. This is simply not the case.

Felix Culpa
Felix Culpa
Apr 17, 2020 4:51 PM

The last three minutes made worthwhile the slog through. The answer to the question, “Was the coronavirus weaponized in order to benefit the usual suspects?” is “Yes, the evidence is overwhelmingly.”- even if Dr. Katz’s default setting is to answer every question, “Sooner or later things will get better or worse, but only if we trust the people called experts today and reserve judgment and get more data until the experts arbitrarily decide what constitutes sufficient data.”

Given the uncertainty which governs Dr. Katz’s mind, how could the data guys ever get out the door to collect it? We first need data to know if there is a risk to them collecting the data.

In this way, the powerful are afforded eternal time to lord it over the weak and conduct their pillage. The weaponization of coronavirus proceeds here by way of the weaponization of impartiality.

Dr. Katz’s inability to commit to anything, even reason, is not the exercise of humility- the lack of which he implicitly imputes to altruistic doctors like Wittkowski- but a paralysis born of fear and cynicism.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 18, 2020 4:48 AM
Reply to  Felix Culpa

“Given the uncertainty which governs Dr. Katz’s mind…”

Certainty is the virus that renders this site’s ATLs to some extent and these BTL’s to an overwhelming extent the next best thing to totally fucking useless when it comes to their having anything at all effective to contribute to any effort to get the world’s more dominant societies out of the social, economic, political and environmental shit into which those societies have chosen to descend and thrash about in, so contaminating all the rest. Thank you for your contribution.

Felix Culpa
Felix Culpa
Apr 18, 2020 2:16 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Oh, you are certain about the need for uncertainty, are you? To be consistent, you’d have to remain uncertain about the uncertainty you peddle as a virtue.
As for the accusatory inversion, you are the marketer, not I, nor this site, if the interview with you is any indication to go by.
And the world is no longer buying what you are selling, namely that we should remain uncertain about your villainy as such while you keep certainty that such an approach, sold as humility, will lead to your success in making out.
You can blame the people for their contamination through believing you and your ilk, you did so throughout the interview. “Buyer beware”, right?
Well, thanks for putting us on notice that in order to get out from under your control we will have to get wise to your game.
I think we have. Expect a fight.

Doug Gregory
Doug Gregory
Apr 19, 2020 3:22 PM
Reply to  Felix Culpa

Superb comments, Mr Culpa.

Doug Gregory
Doug Gregory
Apr 19, 2020 3:19 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

The sure sign of genius-at-work: Long run-on sentence containing complimentary f- and s- bombs, with gratuitous acronyms floating on top of a soup of smug self-assurance. While denouncing the “virus” of “certainty.” Yup. Genius.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 17, 2020 10:00 AM

Projected deaths amended from 500,000 to 20,000, how did they react? tighten the lockdown.

paul
paul
Apr 17, 2020 2:20 AM

Hoax? Hysteria? Psyop?
Who knows? Maybe.
But suppose, just for a moment, that this is a genuine pandemic and health crisis.
Just entertain the possibility – or even just the possibility that most people will regard it as such.
677,000 cases, 35,000 dead, 22 million unemployed in the US, with those figures (whatever you think of their accuracy) growing rapidly.
What are the likely effects of all this in the short, medium and long term?
Could it make radical changes (for the better) that would have been unthinkable a few weeks ago, possible or even inevitable?
Could this be a golden opportunity to overturn the whole apple cart?
The failings of crapitalism and corporatist globalism have been ruthlessly exposed for all the world to see.
Unable to provide even basic medical supplies like gloves for hospitals.
With a corrupt, incompetent, incoherent, ignorant, hopeless, faction-ridden political establishment floundering as it tries vainly to respond, evading all responsibility as it casts around frantically looking for scapegoats to blame.
A health care system that eats up 18% of GDP while failing to meet the most basic needs of its people.
A financial system on the verge of collapse, mired in debt.
A budget deficit of $2.8 trillion, from a budget of $6.2 trillion. 45 cents in the dollar.
The only response being to double down on the failed policies of the past decade. Tens of trillions in money printing for a looting kleptocracy of corporate tax dodging parasites and Wall Street shysters and cronies. Further extended negative interest rates distorting the economy. Protracted austerity for everybody else.
Chaos, disorder, political instability and social collapse.
Billionaires on social media sailing off on their yachts to private island bolt holes.
A bloated and inefficient military establishment with feet of clay. A 100,000 ton aircraft carrier taken out of commission as the crew falls ill and the captain is sacked.
We are in uncharted territory. This is unprecedented. Here be dragons.

paul
paul
Apr 17, 2020 2:30 AM
Reply to  paul

Then there is the psychological impact on people, as everything that has seemed solid and stable evaporates.
Of course, the consequences may equally well prove to be far from positive.
In similar circumstances an aimless drifter sleeping on park benches came from nowhere to lead one of the greatest nations on earth.
All bets are off.
Everything is up for grabs, for good or ill.
All anyone can do is roll the dice and see what happens.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Apr 18, 2020 12:10 AM
Reply to  paul

It’s been planned in minute detail. Psychopaths do not play dice with the sheeple.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Apr 18, 2020 12:05 AM
Reply to  paul

That’s what they’ve been saying since the beginning. Doesn’t make much sense though. The coronavirus teaches nothing except that governments are tyrannical and beyond democratic control.

We’ve been locked in our homes without the slightest justification that I can see. How does this possibly link to the financial system? Or green politics? Or a kinder type of totalitarianism that is allegedly superior to the democratic alternative?

It’s one great non sequitur repeated over and over for brainwashing purposes.

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 16, 2020 11:59 PM

Its hard not to notice how the propaganda campaign for the Plandemic(TM) and Global Warming(TM) are so interlinked.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Apr 16, 2020 10:01 PM

Dr. Shiva seems pretty sharp…. https://youtu.be/NjjybyJ59Lw

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 7:52 PM

If the government closed care homes. How many self isolating, mask and glove wearing, don’t come within 2 metres screaming happy clappers would refuse to have their elderly relatives home I wonder?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 16, 2020 7:41 PM

Facial recognition can now track you down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-52157131/coronavirus-russia-uses-facial-recognition-to-tackle-covid-19

“You left the flat for one minute and they knew!”

But this is Russia. Couldn’t happen here.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 8:00 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Thank God we have face masks!

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 16, 2020 9:38 PM
Reply to  Willem

It’s actually designed to counter that!

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 16, 2020 11:50 PM
Reply to  George Mc

What does it recognize the way that I walk.

Hot sun beating down
Burning my feet just walking around
Hot sun making me sweat
Gator’s getting close, hasn’t got me yet

I can’t dance, I can’t talk
Only thing about me is the way I walk
I can’t dance, I can’t sing
I’m just standing here selling everything

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 17, 2020 8:48 AM
Reply to  Jay Khaye

Well I was just going by that BBC clip and it strikes me now that the “We know it’s you even when you wear a mask!” may be just another bit of fearmongering bullshit.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 7:39 PM

Is the head of the political opposition in the UK retarded or has he had his life threatened? because he has just stood by and said nothing while his entire voter base, the working population of the UK, have just had their entire lives destroyed and he hasn’t said a thing he just stands there like a deer in headlights.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 8:06 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

As the prosecutions of Assange and Salmond have shown, the judiciary is controlled by the unintelligent services. Thus, as a former DPP…

David Matthews
David Matthews
Apr 16, 2020 8:15 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

… and member of the Trilateral Commission. But probably not retarded.

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 16, 2020 11:52 PM
Reply to  David Matthews

Balls in a Vice? Perhaps.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Apr 17, 2020 7:49 AM
Reply to  Jay Khaye

🙂
more likely than retarded

My crystal ball tells me of some future nouveau labour government. It will make some pretty tinkling noises, such as going a little way towards bringing pensions back up to 2020 levels whilst bombing some African/South American country back to the stone age.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Apr 16, 2020 9:14 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

I expect he’s rooting out antisemites as that was his single most important job , he told us recently .
In fact all four labour leadership candidates said exactly the same thing and all at exactly the same time !
What an amazing coincidence.

Anyhow I dare say he is in Israel …. you don’t need a posh education and a knighthood to know that’s where the real hardcore antisemites hang out.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 7:34 PM

The British government hates the poor old and has implemented policies to murder them early for years. The Liverpool care path: murder via the starvation and dehydration in Hospitals, promotion of euthanasia: almost every year and the extension of the retirement age beyond the age when most British people are able to walk, let alone work.

Why do we just accept the fact that there is a massive flu outbreak every year, is that normal?, has that always happened? did it happen 60 years ago, or is it government policy? The British and US life expectancy has been going down for the past few years is flu doing that or just government policy ?

Dave Lawton
Dave Lawton
Apr 17, 2020 12:15 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

The NHS was infiltrated by the EU funded Marxist Common Purpose group which set up
Super Management system which blocked the investigations by Sir Brian Jarman who
was investigating the many hundreds of unavoidable deaths including around five hundred
at the Gosport Memorial Hospital and found he was being blocked constantly by the Common Purpose Management. The Police investigation into the deaths called it corporate manslaughter.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 16, 2020 7:28 PM

There it goes on the news again and again and again and again and again and again….

And I thought about that final scene from Orwell’s “1984” when Winston is blasted in a bar and staring up at the ubiquitous TV screen and realising how much he loves Big Brother. Yes, you the viewer will come to love COVID. COVID is now your lord and master. COVID cares for you. COVID knows your every wish, every desire, every secret.

In the beginning was COVID, and COVID was with God, and COVID was God.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 7:24 PM

Stalin would have loved what American CIA tech have planned for us, linking all the ‘sick’ dissidents together via their bluetooth on your mobile phones and, then locking them all up in ‘quarantine’. If some of them don’t come out alive of course it was the virus.

Get the system in place then murder the free thinkers or lock them up and torture them, just like dozens of CIA client countries do in the world today.

Esse
Esse
Apr 16, 2020 7:18 PM
jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 7:35 PM
Reply to  Esse

I can’t prove that there were government ‘doctors’ seen walking onto old peoples homes with pillows in their hands, but I know it’s true.

Offlands
Offlands
Apr 16, 2020 7:13 PM

Got sent this, take note:

Here are the official Coronavirus guidelines:
1. Basically, you can’t leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won’t help, but they can still help.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it’s important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it’s better not to go out, well, but no…
13. It’s better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don’t go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).
14. You can’t go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
15. If you are sick, you can’t go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn’t wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with “I don’t want to trigger panic, but…”
18. You can’t see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don’t live under the same roof.
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn’t say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.
22. The virus stays in the air – well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
23. We count the number of deaths but we don’t know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were “almost dead” to find out if that’s what they will die of…
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 16, 2020 7:20 PM
Reply to  Offlands

Gaslighting
They’re leaving everything
Gaslighting
They’re losing all their friends
Gaslighting
It’s the only way
It’s frightening

With apologies to Leo Sayer

Andrea B
Andrea B
Apr 16, 2020 8:26 PM
Reply to  Offlands

Thank you, I needed that laugh!

bob
bob
Apr 16, 2020 7:02 PM

If I wanted an ‘internet relationship’ with my family and friends I would join facebook or even twitter.
But I don’t want an internet relationship with anyone
I want a REAL relationship
This lousy government is denying me that opportunity – not because of anything I have done but because they are corrupt and criminal and see themselves as above the law of the land
Where is the resistance to this tyranny??????
I’ve drawn up a little poster and I have stuck it on my front door. I am also considering physically posting it on local noticeboards and delivering it through letterboxes
I’m trying to be creative in a reasonable manner and try to do something
So when I die I will be able to say AT LEAST I F**KING TRIED

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 7:48 PM
Reply to  bob

If there is a mass walk out it should happen, on May 1st. People are protesting in the US.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 6:44 PM

Speaking about idiocy and statistics, here is some more

There is an inverse correlation between incidence of Covid19 and other bullshit, and where the the total amount of bullshit: C, is a constant. In other words, if the incidence of covid19 has peaked (as it has done now), there must be other forms of bullshit that will take over the narrative as total bullshit is a constant.

This appears to be true in my work (see my laments of yesterday), but also in the world, where we were freed from Greta Thunberg, Brexit, the US elections, the gender issues and so on and so forth the moment Covid19 started to take over the world news.

So, this might be the eye of the storm: where Covid19 has reached its peak and will slowly disappear, with other bullshit eagerly waiting to take over the narrative.

Enjoy it while it lasts…

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 7:25 PM
Reply to  Willem

Willem’s Law

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 6:43 PM

Now that most people are off work, why haven’t we we shut down care homes?

bob
bob
Apr 16, 2020 6:53 PM
Reply to  lundiel

that would be too obvious …

gordon
gordon
Apr 16, 2020 6:39 PM

tonigh tonight later
it will be 8 oclock thursday
clappathon time

medication medication time
clap for oded yinon
clap for the red heffers
dance like the guys danced on the 9 and 11
dance like the doctor and the nursey
dance yourself dizzy guy
clap until your hands bleed
you will dance vicky
i will make you a star
star
without the red shows
bed blockers the infirm and crazed charley mansons
clap harder

all for a good cause
the army of me
the nhs

molech

the new temple rising

a new world satanick order
clap donate your energy for harvesting
clap all the way to slaughter

make your date
summer is a cumin in

the wicker man needs human souls
fools all

PWL
PWL
Apr 16, 2020 6:49 PM
Reply to  gordon

It has become the custom at our house, at 8pm on a Thursday, to enjoy a rendition of God Save the Queen by the Sex Pistols:
The Queen is at economic war with the British people

Frank
Frank
Apr 16, 2020 6:36 PM

comment image

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 6:29 PM

So time to peak of Covid19=21st March (Spring) plus 10-14 days independent of lockdown.

The following charts are not perfect to show this, as they should have started the x-axis with the date of lockdown and then move forward, but you get the idea.

Italy peaked.

Spain has peaked.

Netherlands has peaked.

US has peaked.

Still, the muckymucks fail to adress that their flattening curve did not take one aspect into account of what would flatten the curve. And that is, as is usual for common cold, Spring! What they do talk about, at least in NL, is that we should be VERY careful not to end the lockdown to soon, as it might lead to a ‘second wave’.

When will it dawn on these experts that their advice to governments is impoverishing nations and is leading to deaths on a grand scale, based on their idiotic viewpoints?

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 6:30 PM
Reply to  Willem

Charts don’t copy…

Go to worldofmeters where I found them

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 16, 2020 6:25 PM

Keir Starmer had overdone the blusher on the news. Hope he’s not going to contract covid 19.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 6:56 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

It was applied with a 2m long stick.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 7:22 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

Steer Kalmer… the robot.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Apr 16, 2020 6:09 PM

If you don’t have time to listen to the entire interview, forward to the (55:00 min) point and listen to the last question and answer. It addresses a core underlying issue in all of this and challenges the notion one should credulously believe in the “good intentions” of our government’s “you’re all on house-arrest” response.

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Apr 16, 2020 6:03 PM

I happened to come across this video yesterday, prior to noticing it on this website. Dr David L Katz a New Haven CT resident graduated from Dartmouth College, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and Yale School of Public Health. He’s a former director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center. If you contemplate Katz’s comments, it seems he ultimately sees “herd immunity” as the only logical answer for dealing with this virus. Of course, the most at risk populations would need to practice greater precautions, but the same can be said of those fearful of contracting the flu. During every flu season, populations with compromised immune systems and the elderly always have a greater chance of becoming seriously ill.

What I found most interesting, is the “interviewer’s questions” compelling Katz to comment on the general poor health of most Americans primarily due to obesity related illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Probing questions such as the ones asked during this interview would never be permitted on mainstream media news where every bit of info jeopardizing the official narrative is carefully filtered and discreetly edited. In fact, Katz mentioned that before an “opinion piece” he authored was allowed to appear in the New York Times it needed to be edited and rewritten over and over again until the editors were satisfied. No surprise there.

It must cited, that chronic medical conditions like heart disease and diabetes cause the highest mortality rates in the US. Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both men and women as well as for most racial and ethnic groups. “One person dies every 37 seconds in the US from cardiovascular disease. About 647,000 Americans die from heart disease each year—that’s 1 in every 4 deaths. Diabetes is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States. In 2017, diabetes was mentioned as the cause of death in a total of 270,702 death certificates.”

We can’t overlook, that more than 500,000 Americans each year die from smoking-related diseases.

So why is there so much hysteria surrounding COVID-19, if heart disease, diabetes and, cigarette smoking kills approximately 1,500,000 Americans each year. At this very moment the COVID-19 Death-o-Meter cites 31,000 US deaths a paltry figure in comparison to the 80,000 flu deaths in 2018 or compared to the 1,500,000 deaths resulting from heart disease, diabetes, and smoking.

Chronic deaths are written off as the “collateral effect” of living in a culture where industries profit from producing toxic products. To question the enormous amount of heart disease and diabetes deaths would also require questioning the efficacy of the entire food and tobacco industry. And then you’d have to go one step further, and question whether a population has the right to consume a daily diet of deleterious junk and inhale lung ravaging poisons. A predatory medical industry “welcomes” injurious habits, since chronic illness provides a constant source of revenue. Just like prison recidivism rates ensure a regular source of profit.

IT PAYS TO BE A PREDATOR

Under a predatory economic system some of the most profitable industries are rewarded based on
a populations pernicious behavior. That’s the real reason why Americans have learned to coexist with mass “socially acceptable” deaths never generating a moment of hysteria on the mainstream media news.

Panic, is created by targeting designated enemies which can either be leaders of specific nation-states or a novel coronavirus. The relentless demonization of people and things promotes unfettered hysteria all for the purpose of gaining public acceptance for policies and actions which would never be tolerated under “normal” circumstances.

And that’s why I personally believed from the very start that the “panic pandemic” was promoted for the following reasons:

1. The virus is testing social control mechanisms. How populations react to panic. How much personal liberty will groups sacrifice for safety……

2. The effectiveness of a weaponized virus is determined based on how rapidly it’s transmitted throughout specific populations.

3. COVID-19 supplies the rationale for a collapsing economy which was already on the verge of collapse.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 6:24 PM

Can’t disagree with any of that.

Just one thing that is not followed through…

‘During every flu season, populations with compromised immune systems and the elderly always have a greater chance of becoming seriously ill.’

Yes. But it is mitigated.

By pre-existing herd immunity from previous STRAINS of the flu;

By flu vaccinations developed for NEW strains; and

By a hospital capacity to deal with the increased need of these who will need it.

This is a new virus with no herd immunity and no vaccines or no hospital capacity.

Important don’t you think?

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Apr 16, 2020 7:52 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

In 2018, and during other past years the vaccine was ineffective at treating the flu. Viruses mutate. That’s how they survive. Hospital capacites during the 2018 was pressed to the max, but it was not discussed. Usually, those who are uninsured or underinsured (87 million Americans) never seek a physician’s care. If the uninsured become seriously ill they go to an emergency room, or remain untreated.

As far as this being a new virus, it appears 80% who contract it are asymptomatic or suffer very mild symptoms. I’m of the opinion, that COVID-19 has been circulating around the US since last fall. The very first verified case was in Washington State. No one thought much of it at that point. It was not until the mainstream media news grabbed on to COVID-19 like starving vultures that the world became crazed. Russiagate and Ukraine-gate had been sucked dry media scavengers.

I will say, that if the mainstream media news did not hype this panic pandemic it would have been impossible to transfer trillions to the usual flesh-eating creeps. In addition, the overwhelming hysteria proved useful to authoritarian governments needing to re-establish order–something the elites will think about, nourish, and savor for quite some time.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 9:18 PM

Again nothing to argue in that. And at least you know it exists, is new, and vaccines don’t exist for it now or its future strains yet.

Which is why it is so bloody dangerous even at 0.1% ifr.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Apr 16, 2020 8:53 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

“This is a new virus with no herd immunity” ….. how do you know that ?

No – one has been tested yet.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 9:15 PM
Reply to  ZigZagWanderer

And the excess deaths? Are they just made up people?

Just denying that countries all across the world friends or foes are ALL agreeing it is real, new and causing deaths won’t make it go away.

Might as well stick your head in the ground.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Apr 16, 2020 10:00 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

What excess deaths .. ?

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 11:57 PM
Reply to  ZigZagWanderer

If you pulled your head out of your – hole in the ground – you may have noticed the ONS death stats released earlier this week. But you probably won’t want to believe them. So what’s the point of asking?

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 17, 2020 12:08 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Why would anyone care to argue a false point. Present some evidence that supports your question/statement about excess deaths.
15 million people die every year. How many excess deaths do we have with 125,000? That number being totally fictitious to start with.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 17, 2020 12:49 AM
Reply to  Jay Khaye

Why would anyone want to see the proof that they are wrong?

It’s a good question- ever been wrong?

Seeing as you are unwilling to look up the Office of National Statistics yourself – I won’t either.

But would you believe an expert?

James Tozer
@J_CD_T
·
7h
In Britain, data from
@ONS
suggest excess deaths of about 7,000 in the four weeks to April 3rd. A revised count of covid cases—using death certificates, rather than daily data from hospitals—came to 6,200 in the same period. (8/14)
https://mobile.twitter.com/J_CD_T
——-
And he is even putting together graphs for these who can’t get their head around tables of data, and not just for the UK.

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 17, 2020 1:07 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Just so you understand, no one dies from Covid 19. They die from Pneumonia. Or other under lying conditions. So take your death certificate data and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
Excess deaths caused by Covid will be calculated by the Epidemiology crowd after they have all the data. Trolls like you should take your propaganda to a crowd more accepting of being bullshitted.
By the way did the UK do as the CDC did in the US and direct physicians to place Covid 19 as the cause of death if the patient died of any respiratory condition including pneumonia. Those stats would truly overwhelm and data related to this virus. They also said to mark covid as the cause regardless if they were tested. Hmm seems rather suspicious.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 17, 2020 7:38 AM
Reply to  Jay Khaye

“no one dies from Covid 19. They die from Pneumonia”

That pretty much shows your fake news parroting ignorance.

Covid 19 is the illness that causes the particular pneumonia.

SARS-CoV-2 is the particular virus that causes the particular covid illness.

The excess deaths have become evident as the deaths have become exponential.

Whatever the reason of death is it is the total number of deaths daily that is the only thing that would show if there are excess deaths occuring.

YOU are not interested in the actual facts and are spreading your fake news and ignoring the actual data and science I posted for you that PROVES excess deaths.

WHY?

bob
bob
Apr 16, 2020 5:45 PM

Stupid is as stupid does

Lockdown for at least another 3 weeks
This is beyond criminal and the government and its private medical backers – Witty and Vallance are beyond a joke

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/12/the-lockdown-is-not-a-way-of-beating-this-virus/?fbclid=IwAR0RVNaj1I6M6-5sYXgQIFqavIaA2LsFWb9cxIg017DjTbuFccACd-91DWA

The situation in the UK at 5.45pm on 16th April 2020 is criminal

Shoot a happy clapper at 8.0pm tonight is my suggested policy

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 6:25 PM
Reply to  bob

Sing ringa ringa roses with a dying fly finale, is mine.

IANA
IANA
Apr 16, 2020 6:39 PM
Reply to  bob

Criminal matches my thoughts on this now.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2020 6:40 PM
Reply to  bob

Shoot a happy clapper at 8.0pm tonight is my suggested policy

why not just loudly shout “BOO”, instead. maybe the idea will catch on.

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 17, 2020 12:09 AM
Reply to  bob

Only if you decide thats what you want.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 5:23 PM

We should be pushing for economic change post-virus. Governments are going to use it for a reset that will absolve them from any economic blame for the last 45 years of wealth redistribution. We should be shouting for the rich to start paying higher taxes to fund real social security for all of us.
This virus has exposed the total lack of planning for any unusual situation along with a realisation of just how many jobs rely on those people who have so much disposable income that they find an economy of useless service jobs.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 5:34 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Shut down charity shops forever. Make wedding parties in French chateaux unaffordable, f off Dick and Angel. Put Kirsty and Phil out of a job forever. Make school catchment areas equal.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 6:30 PM
Reply to  lundiel

We don’t need the rich to pay even the taxes they are supposed to to fund social security or any other public spending. The government can just choose to do so. It doesn’t.

We only need to collect the tax the rich don’t pay to limit social inequality and stop them inflating assets with their tax avoidance.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 6:41 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

I know all about MMS and fiat money. It’s time we lived within our means and stopped pretending we have eternal growth.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 9:11 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Maggies household budget eh?

Knowing something is not the same as understanding it.

When have we lived ‘within our means’ when has the national debt been zero?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 5:12 PM

New UK wwebsite:

https://lockdownsceptics.org/

Swiis Propaganda Research updated:

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Snippet:

“•New antibody data from the Italian community of Robbia in Lombardy shows that about ten times more people had the corona virus than originally thought, as they developed no or only mild symptoms. The actual immunization rate is 22%.”

Jay Khaye
Jay Khaye
Apr 16, 2020 6:08 PM
Reply to  clickkid

It will all be exposed, but how can we hold them accountable. Just like trying to get service from a government worker, they just laugh in your face. I think more drastic measires are called for. Violence as an option needs to be considered, otherwise they will just carry on with their new top down authoritarian scenario.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Apr 16, 2020 5:03 PM

The best way to avoid the panic ensuing around the Coronavirus would be for the media to stop talking about it

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 16, 2020 5:08 PM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

The media is the virus.

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Apr 16, 2020 9:47 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

The media is the Bubonic Plague…..

Thom
Thom
Apr 16, 2020 6:01 PM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

Which is why they are talking about it – their ‘deep state’ sponsors want people to panic. The media orchestrated the panic buying of toilet paper and baked beans, while pretending the public were to blame.
It’s certainly been interesting for me as someone who doesn’t have a TV and doesn’t read the newspapers to go about my business as normally as possible and observe the strange behaviour at the moment.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 7:03 PM
Reply to  Thom

The majority do not have an original idea in their head. I used to think many people adopted ideas “off the peg” — finding it less effort than working things out for themselves. After all, that’s what newspapers are for /s.
But now I doubt if they even do that. I think they look at other people and just copy what other people do, copy what other people say, how they dress, what they buy….

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 16, 2020 5:03 PM

The Groan today playing up the “there are more under-reported Covid-19 deaths in care homes than you think” line.

Meanwhile, 3-week extension to UK lockdown expected to be announced today.

And apologies for linking to MSM, but this is quite interesting:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783

Coronavirus: Nine in 10 dying have existing illness
[…]
More than nine in 10 people dying with coronavirus have an underlying health condition, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

The ONS looked at nearly 4,000 deaths during March in England and Wales where coronavirus was mentioned on the death certificate.

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems.

The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness.

On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions.

It comes amid signs the coronavirus outbreak is deterring people from going to A&E.

The number of people attending major units has nearly halved since the virus first emerged in the UK.
[…]
What else does the ONS analysis say?
The ONS has also looked at the differences in death rates by age and sex.

Men are twice as likely to die with coronavirus.

Unsurprisingly, the risk of dying increases with age, rising sharply from age 60 onwards.
[…]
The ONS has also looked to what extent coronavirus is causing the death of individuals rather than another condition being more of a factor.

In most cases it was judged to be the cause that triggered their death.

To what extent is coronavirus shortening lives?
This is extremely hard to judge.

Nick Stripe, head of health analysis at the ONS, said understanding what the deaths from coronavirus meant was “difficult and challenging”.

He pointed out the risk of dying from heart disease and strokes had fallen, which could suggest they were dying from coronavirus instead of other things.
[…]
But he said there was other evidence which suggested the deaths were “on top of” what would be expected.

He said further research and debate were needed to explore the true impact of the virus on mortality.

The BBC’s head of statistics, Robert Cuffe, agreed.

“Coronavirus is doing more than taking the place of other causes of death for people who would otherwise have died this month,” he said.

“It has driven the total number of deaths higher than expected.

“People like these, with multiple health conditions, do have lower life expectancy, but these figures don’t say exactly how many months or years coronavirus has taken off their life.”

Plenty of scope there then for many more research grants. Every cloud has a silver lining.

IANA
IANA
Apr 16, 2020 6:42 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

I think the figures on deaths in care homes will end up a scandal but I think that will have little to do with CV19 and much to the criminal way some of these places behave.

Reg
Reg
Apr 16, 2020 4:26 PM

Rappoport on the swine flu “epidemic” ten years ago. That Fauci (I won’t call him “doctor”) should be hanged.

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/16/heres-what-sharyl-attkisson-told-me-about-the-2009-pandemic/

Reg
Reg
Apr 16, 2020 4:20 PM

The scourge of vaccines in the “Third World”. Now coming to the “free”, “affluent” West:

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2020/04/15/vaccination-most-deceptive-tool-of-imperialism/

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 16, 2020 8:14 PM
Reply to  Reg

Thanks for this Reg.

ame
ame
Apr 16, 2020 4:06 PM

at 8pm sharp if your not out clapping converting to clap dumb dom
This could go against you in job interviews in years to come

Maxwell
Maxwell
Apr 16, 2020 3:53 PM

New Study- 50% of COVID-Positive Deaths in Europe Have Been in Nursing Homes:

https://ltccovid.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Mortality-associated-with-COVID-12-April-3.pdf

T Brites
T Brites
Apr 16, 2020 4:42 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Perfectly natural… That’s where the number of fragile very old people exist!

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Apr 16, 2020 5:09 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Thanks for all the data, you have posted, I think “Crying wolf” as government and media have done over the coronavirus will come back to haunt humanity when a real killer virus appears, thanks to the propensity for humans in the their ever increasing billions to live cheek by jowl globally

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 7:25 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Mortality disproportionately associated with being old… shock horror.

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 16, 2020 2:56 PM

Chris Cuomo faking coronavirus illness for media, actually out and about and getting into altercation with 65 year old bicyclist: https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492907-hamptons-bicyclist-files-police-report-after-verbal-confrontation-with-cnns

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 4:23 PM

Chris Cuomo has coronavirus and is in quarantine, yet he travels to a construction site to see how his new house is progressing, and then threatens to assault a cyclist, who had had the audacity to ask why the governor’s brother was ignoring the rules? Of course Cuomo has a history of lying, hypocrisy and threatening behaviour – no wonder he is a CNN star.

paul
paul
Apr 16, 2020 5:04 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Poor Fredo.
He does have his problems.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Apr 16, 2020 5:11 PM

The Cuomo family is trying to parley a “good crisis” into POTUS appointment ?

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 16, 2020 6:20 PM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

Unlikely, since Trump is a Republican and they’re not.

SteveK9
SteveK9
Apr 16, 2020 2:56 PM

A bit off topic, but this is probably the most insightful article on the social/political aspects of what we are witnessing that I have read. Hopkins always has a good dose of humor in his essays. That is still here to some extent, but this is more serious than most of his writing.

https://www.unz.com/chopkins/brave-new-normal/#comment-3841051

T Brites
T Brites
Apr 16, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  SteveK9

That was publish here also! April 15, 2020! It’s still visible on the homepage of this site!

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2020 6:45 PM
Reply to  T Brites
T Brites
T Brites
Apr 16, 2020 11:06 PM
Reply to  milosevic

I know that! SteveK9 apparently was distracted!

SteveK9
SteveK9
Apr 16, 2020 2:53 PM

He is not all the way on the side of Dr. Wittkowski, but I think there is general agreement here. Where he seems to be off, is the statements that NYC health care was overwhelmed. If he gets the opportunity to volunteer at a NYC Hospital, he may get a more realistic perspective.

bob
bob
Apr 16, 2020 2:51 PM

Well, I’ve had enough now.
Just back from a local store to get a loaf and bottle of milk – time taken 3 minutes – in that time I received insane stares, two arguments about social distancing and a person on the till who would not accept cash – apparently the £20 note I offered for payment was old and nobody knew where it had come from – doh! The paranoia of these people is bewildering to say the least and highly problematic going forward because I do not want to know these irrational and inhuman people. I just want to kill. Even if a freeing of the lockdown comes about these people will still want to ‘maintain’ their distance because of some irrational fear – there is no doubt the propaganda has got them all by the goolies – it is truly insane – I’ve never known anything like it – I cannot and don’t want to engage with these morons … ever … so anymore analysis on what’s happening is to be avoided – where the f**k is the reistance??????????

thankful reader
thankful reader
Apr 16, 2020 3:16 PM
Reply to  bob

Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
Apr 16, 2020 4:34 PM
Reply to  bob

I’m having similar experiences at supermarkets. People queuing are anxious that everyone maintains the official distance, to the inch, and will give you a baleful stare if they think you’re not. Store staff are enjoying their new-found status as essential workers and the power they have to tell you off. For now at least they’re revelling in reversing the usual “customer is always right” maxim and treating you with the thinly veiled contempt they’ve always secretly felt.

Enough already.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  Ross Hendry

Perhaps time to go to a smaller grocers’ – typically owned by first generation immigrants.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 5:31 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Agreed. It is much nicer there. And you also get the feeling that you’re helping people instead of corporations when you buy something there. A win-win

breweriana
breweriana
Apr 16, 2020 5:35 PM
Reply to  clickkid

If you can afford the newly inflated ‘ration prices’ they charge from the elderly and those who cannot afford transport to get to a supermarket.

Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
Apr 16, 2020 5:40 PM
Reply to  clickkid

No such store near me in West Dorset unfortunately, but 4 supermarkets within walking distance.

Steve Church
Steve Church
Apr 17, 2020 10:40 AM
Reply to  clickkid

Here, in Paris, we have “superettes”, some of which are local antennas of the big chain stores, but, in our neighbour hood, run by first or second generation immigrants as well, and they are just as fed up with all this as I am. We chat and laugh about the idiocy of the situation. We do have, however, those tight-assed customers who are terrified by the gov’t propaganda who display all kinds of strange behavior. We hope to be able to leave for the southwest family home soon. What a relief that’ll be.

Waldorf
Waldorf
Apr 16, 2020 4:47 PM
Reply to  bob

If things go back to normal or at least more like normal, people like that may revert to less alienated human interaction. Chances are this was under the surface anyway though and it takes a crisis to make it come to the surface.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 16, 2020 5:19 PM
Reply to  bob

At least you can shame them to death when the boogie man is gone and it’s safe to come out and play

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2020 5:25 PM
Reply to  bob

I cannot and don’t want to engage with these morons

fortunately, the morons have solved that problem for you. they very helpfully identify themselves to you by maintaining the government-mandated minimum separation, thus ensuring that there will be no possibility of accidental engagement.

these people were always around, now they’re just immediately obvious. life is so much simpler this way, because you no longer have to talk to them, before realizing how stupid they are.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 5:39 PM
Reply to  milosevic

That is very true. In fact, I have met many new friends in the last few weeks. And the bullshitters have left me mostly in peace, since they self-isolate.

It already makes me sort of nostalgic when I come to think what our world will look like after coronavirus, with all the bullshitters back in the street and in office demanding our full attention for their schemes and plans and talking points that are all bullshit.

Please, let them self-isolate for a little bit longer.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 5:33 PM
Reply to  bob

You have encountered deep stupid. Hoist your shield. Don’t let them get to you. Idiocy is s virus.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Apr 16, 2020 6:41 PM
Reply to  bob

Well i’m just sitting on the local pub bench getting the last half hour of sun and people are jogging past breathing heavily every 20 seconds!

They are all observing social distancing though, so it must be alright.

The mental rationalism and rehabilitation that people are experiencing is a joy to behold. Anthropologists should be paying attention!

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 2:10 PM

I don’t know why you posted this video, this guy is clueless. Post a few German doctors, they know how to tell the truth.

Tutisicecream
Tutisicecream
Apr 16, 2020 1:53 PM

No MSM reporting of the growing protests so it’s important to realise that this is happening now!

https://youtu.be/QRuYu8-_w18

Grab this idea and take action quick as the financial crash will start to break many people.

Tutisicecream
Tutisicecream
Apr 16, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Tutisicecream

Also this is essential viewing from UK Column:
https://youtu.be/C3ldtVWKlQI

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Apr 16, 2020 4:40 PM
Reply to  Tutisicecream

Just watched. It is excellent.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 1:43 PM

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/22-million-last-4-weeks-has-erased-all-jobs-created-great-recession

22 Million lost jobs in the US in the last 4 weeks – 710 for every ‘covid-19 death’

Atlantic Realm
Atlantic Realm
Apr 16, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Mine one of them. Not “with Covid” … “because of Covid.”

paul
paul
Apr 16, 2020 5:07 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Current budget deficit $2.7 trillion of a $6.2 trillion budget.
43 cents borrowed for every $ spent.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Apr 16, 2020 1:27 PM

Before offering my own thoughts on this I would like to hear from people on this forum as to what they think are the primary motivations of those forcing these lock downs upon us.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

1. Hysteria of the people, whipped up by the media, combined with incompetence and groupthink of government.

2. We all know that an economic collapse was inevitable anyway, so the governments are putting the security infrastructure into place, trying to proactively control the collapse. To be followed by a global financial reset, after a period of hyperinlation, which destroys both the value of debt and the corresponding paper claims. The security infrastructure (lockdowns etc) is necessary for them to be able to control the massive social disorder, that can be expected in this scenario.

I tend strongly to the second option at the highest level, but I think that at lower levels number two is in play.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I meant to say:

“I tend strongly to the second option at the highest level, but I think that at lower levels number one is in play.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Apr 16, 2020 3:24 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Thank you for that- I tend to be thinking similar thoughts on this. I think about the context leading into this “pandemic.” There already was social unrest all over the globe. Last summer for example protests and riots in Wuhan- coincidental? No need to review the social unrest already manifest or brewing throughout Europe and S America.

How do you think the decision making process occurs on this? How did the shift happen so quickly- the opportunism so pervasively?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 4:27 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

I have no greater insight into the ‘decision making process’ than any of us do. There is therefore not much point in me addressing that.

In my opinion it has been very clear since 2008 at the latest, that we have a monetary and financial paradigm shift in front of us. Many analysts, such as Peter Schiff, linked in this discussion, realize that. If so many independent analysts realize that, then we can be sure that the insiders know that too. This is inevitable, because the total market value of all the paper claims to wealth in existence – bonds, cash, shares (partly) etc. vastly exceeds the capacity of the physical plane to provide goods and services of equal value at current market prices. Therefore, the total value of all paper claims must be devalued relative to the physical world.

If you scan the publications of say the BIS, then it is clear that the insiders understand the issue. The accumulation of gold by a number of central banks shows awareness of the coming shift, as indeed does the repatriation by many central banks of their gold from London and New York, implying that the do not trust that their Gold is safe at those locations.

None of this means that there is a ‘rollout plan’ for a paradigm shift. However, that shift must come, either relatively proactively with some form of global currency reform, probably preceded by hyperinlation, or reactively through hyperinflation alone.

The latter is more chaotic and leads to much more unpredictable outcomes. The former demands more competence and responsibility from politicians. I tend to believe that procrastination, incompetence, risk aversion and normalcy bias will lead to the ´second path.

Whatever the case, we can be sure that contingency plans have been made, which leads my mind to the possibility that this ‘global lockdown’ is a part of these plans, and thus a harbinger of the shift.

Unlike many on here, I view the current events as rather the attempt to keep control of a failing system; ie not an attempt to institute a New World Order, however much some elites might want that. I think that elites are much more divided and incompetent than we tend to think, and our global world far too intricate and complicated to control.

The monetary diarrhoea of the last few weeks, combined with collapsing production in the real economy, virtually guarantees hyperinflation in my book, and belongs to the last gasps of a failing system. In my opinion the shutdown has set into motion a cascade of uncontrollable and unforseeable events.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 3:48 PM
Reply to  clickkid

clickkid, why would the ruling elite want to the destruction of the value of debt? Debt is for them an asset by which they extract wealth from the real economy. They would be impoverishing (relatively speaking) themselves.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 4:39 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

“Debt is for them an asset by which they extract wealth from the real economy.”

Sure, but eventually the weight of debt inside every system which is built on it, eventually crushes the real economy so much, that it is counter-productive for them – that plus the increasing sociopolitical dissatisfaction.

I’m sure you’re familiar with the evidence that each dollar of debt taken on has been producing less and less in terms of the conventional measures of economic growth.

Eventually, the pressure builds up to push the reset button.

paul
paul
Apr 16, 2020 5:10 PM
Reply to  clickkid

In 1920s Weimar big industrialists and financiers did very well out of it – their debts were wiped out.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Apr 16, 2020 5:18 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Absolutely true . In recorded history no national debt has ever been paid down . A global crisis of some sort always causes a reset ,although said reset is never admitted to be called what it was. .

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 16, 2020 4:41 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Resetting the economy without admitting the last 45 years has been a fuck-up.

Paul2
Paul2
Apr 16, 2020 5:46 PM
Reply to  lundiel

For those who’ve engineered and run the economy for the past 45 years it’s been hugely successful, they now dominate everything on planet earth as a result. They’ve well and truly fucked the rest of us up as well as the planet we live on in the process though, that’s for sure.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 1:24 PM

You know it is illogical, I know it is illogical and so do government ministers and advisors, so the only question left to ask is, why are they still inflicting house arrest and economic armageddon on the population? ………..that is a very worrying question.

Governments know better than you and I, how irrational this is, but they are still destroying our lives.

Peter Schiff lists the economic damage to the US economy, (later in video, around 20.00) His predictions are often right but the timing off, but his detail and facts are always current.

‘Self-inflicted Wounds Can Be Just as Fatal – Ep 562’ (he’s an economic libertarian)

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 16, 2020 1:28 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Peter Sciff (sorry wrong link above).

hope
hope
Apr 16, 2020 3:36 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

To reduce world population now that they have AI.

hope
hope
Apr 16, 2020 3:56 PM
Reply to  hope

more precisely: 1/3 of world pop. on lockdown, i.e. more about 2.5 billion. Say there is 30% unemployment among these (a conservative figure). That is 750 million. Say, about 30% of those die of hunger or malnutrition, that is 250 million. Say, about 10% of the rest die of illnesses due to lockdown, that is 175 million. That is 425 million dead due to lockdown (a conservative estimate).
Id say 1/2 billion may die. Keep this going for another month, that makes it 1 billion. Keep it going until the end of June, that is more than 1.5 billion… Until the end of the summer, and you’ve reduced the world population by 1/2.

With AI you no longer need the jobs that those billions used to do…
Now that may be what is wished for. Whether or not this will happen is a different matter:
so much can happen the longer they keep this going… The unpredictability make predictions even for those who think they are controlling everything impossible.
Even the weather is all so often wrongly predicted from one day to the next, and there we’re dealing with the inanimate part of nature.

hope
hope
Apr 16, 2020 4:02 PM
Reply to  hope

ps: this way population is reduced without money spent, while allowing some to get even richer on the way. While reduction through a humane and reasonable family planning would be expensive and require real long term planning, education, the change to an economy that can thrive with less people, etc, etc…

Also it will get rid of all those with already serious conditions under lockdown who will simply die at home without a sound, without access to medical care: thats many numbers of people got rid of at one go without spending one ounce on them. Rather they are paying their lockdown and their death with their taxes.

This at least provides a rational for India’s extension of the lockdown…

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 4:06 PM
Reply to  hope

hope, do you seriously believe that the global elites are engaged in a criminal conspiracy to murder half the world’s population?

hope
hope
Apr 16, 2020 5:24 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

We cannot know. But not overnight, but over a few years, there may be a serious reduction in the world population as a consequence of lockdowns. And
hence in moments of despair, what is happening is so horrid, one cant help speculating and thinking the worst.

All I wish for is go away far in a rural place in a country with some sense (given 2/3 are not locked down, such countries exist) as soon as borders are open, get a small house with a garden, in the middle of nature, there, where people are still human, and are too connected with nature and life rather than the virtual world of the internet or TV to fear death, and forget the rest: watch history unfold from afar… It must be fascinating to watch from afar as a spectator.

jasmoran66
jasmoran66
Apr 16, 2020 6:16 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I believe it. Wouldn’t put anything past them. We’re not dealing with normal people. That’s plain as day.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 5:16 PM
Reply to  hope

I tend to think that those people are not just going to sit there and die.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 12:47 PM

For weeks people have been denied access to health and social care on a massive scale. GPs surgeries are closed. People are told not to use A & E. Much scheduled care has been cancelled. Indeed, even the corporate media have been forced to acknowledge that many health care facilities are virtually empty. Social care staff are off sick or self isolating. Old people in care homes are being restricted to their rooms, much like prisons on lockdown. Many people are isolated in their own homes. The above average non-coronavirus related deaths certainly looks like an unintended (albeit predictable) consequence of the response. Only on Friday (10 April Coronavirus Daily Update press briefing) Matt Hancock admitted that the government had not considered how many people might die as a result of the response to the virus.

The government’s failure to consider how many people might die as a result of its draconian measures and weigh this against how many people might not die is, not merely irresponsible, it is irrational. No rational politician or administrator would act in such a reckless manner, for what is the point of a policy that would save a ten thousand lives if it kills two hundred thousand people?

Maxwell
Maxwell
Apr 16, 2020 1:28 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

What do you think are the primary motives that are driving these draconian measures from various governments?

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 1:38 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

I think looking for a rational explanation for the draconian measures is a fool’s errand. I think the elites have gone collectively mad. https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-policy-making.html

Croach
Croach
Apr 16, 2020 3:39 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

At it’s heart I think it’s nothing more unusual than graft and incompetence. In the past, regardless of how corrupt and self serving they were, politicians listened to both experts and lobbyists and tried to find the most profitable balance.
Shinzo Abe is an example of someone who’s responded to this in the ‘normal’ way. Throw everyone a bone but don’t rock the boat too much.
But these days, in most countries, all the experts ARE lobbyists. And most politicians aren’t very bright, are totally out of their depth and have spent their whole career being groomed and conditioned by lobby groups.
There’s always been crazy super rich with ill-conceived u/dystopian ideas.
But politicians were confident enough in themselves and able to think far enough ahead to know when to say no (some of the time at least).
Then it’s just the normal crisis exploitation feeding frenzy. A domino effect of corruption as everybody jumps on the gravy train.
This might turn out to be the 2nd biggest gravy train in human history.
Would you want to miss out?

Thom
Thom
Apr 16, 2020 1:52 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

It is only irrational if you assume the government’s concern here is public health. It is unlikely to be, simply on the basis that there have been far worse illnesses prevalent in the developed world in living memory that have not brought on a draconian eonomy-destroying lockdown.
The coronavirus looks more like an excuse for a political clampdown and economic collapse, followed by asset-stripping and power-grabbing by the rich.
It makes perfect sense when you look at it like that. Although I suspect it will backfire on the organisers sooner rather than later.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 2:01 PM
Reply to  Thom

Thom, your position is based on the assumption that these draconian measures are the result of a global elite conspiracy, but what evidence is there to support that assumption?

MoH
MoH
Apr 16, 2020 2:21 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

In the UK, Bill Gates (the frontman for the Rockefeller eugenics program) has given (bribed) the BBC into supporting their agenda (yet another reason not to pay the licence fee) and also bribed the Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty for $40 million dollars. We see people in the cabinet that are supposedly ex-employees for international banks so its not hard to see that our

MoH
MoH
Apr 16, 2020 2:24 PM
Reply to  MoH

Oops!

custodians are in the pocket of the big boys. Pharmaceutical companies, IT conglomerates, global media, Davos types etc are also involved. I suspect that similar has happened elsewhere but I cant prove that. I think that pushback in countries such as Germany is because these parasitic organisations dont have as much control as they do here in the fascist UK

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 3:14 PM
Reply to  MoH

MoH The fact that various elite interests are using their power and influence to push their interest does not mean that the draconian measures are their policy. It is simply evidence that they are trying to exploit the situation.

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 16, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes
Bob
Bob
Apr 16, 2020 5:46 PM
Reply to  Thom

These people aren’t stupid, its clearly a controlled demolition of the economy. The Western Financial system actually died in September when the Fed lost control of interest rates in the RepoMarket, but I’m sure the death certificate will list Covid as the cause. A streamlined, efficient, top down controlled economy with lots of robots and remote workers is the goal, and the small, weak, and poorly capitilized businesses will succumb to their more powerful competitors.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Apr 16, 2020 12:11 PM

The present crisis of humanity is evident in political, economic and cultural forms. The subversive creed of nihilistic individualism was bound to eventuate in such a social catastrophe as is increasingly evident. How did we ever fall for the nonsensical claptrap of ‘rugged individualism’ and ‘winner takes all’ – those toxic theories which gave rise to uncontrolled centrifugal and necessarily destructive social forces as promulgated by the likes of Mrs. Thatcher and Ayn Rand.

‘There is no such thing as society.’ I beg to differ. In fact homos sapiens, are, have always been, and always will be social creatures. The Robinson Crusoe model only exist in the frankly deranged views of those quoted above.

This is not a new or novel view but one that can be traced back for over a hundred years and perhaps longer. The clash between collectivism and individualism has been ever present. Humankind is both self-regarding and extra-regarding, both social and individual. But of course the extra-regarding impulse – selflessness – will overcome, as it must – mankind as a purely egotistic utility maximising machine.
This was pretty well illustrated by the polemic of Emile Durkheim’s The Division of Labour in Society (1893) which was directed against Adam Smith’s liberal theories in particular and liberal individualism in general. Societies and those in them can only exist through social integration. This integration is brought about by a shared culture. Social Facts – i.e, culture exist prior to and above the individual. He argues that – ‘Moral or social rules essentially express social needs’ (Indeed I would add social imperatives).

And further:

‘’The totality of needs and sentiments common to the average members of a society forms a determinate system with a life of its own. It can be termed the collective or common consciousness … By definition this consciousness is diffused over society as a whole but nonetheless possess specific characteristics which make it a distinctive reality. In fact it is independent of specific conditions in which individuals find themselves. Individuals pass on but it abides … Likewise it does not change with every generation but, on the contrary, links successive generations to one another. This collective consciousness is something totally different from the consciousness of individuals.’’ (page.39)

Of course it goes without saying that such sentiments are viewed askance by the PTB and a fortiori by their outer-party berserkers. These are decadent times and anything which smacks of collectivism and sacrifice are viewed as being pathetically antique and too fuddy-duddy for words. Unfortunately this ideological poisoned chalice has been has insinuated itself into the body politic needs to be ruthlessly extirpated otherwise we face social and cultural collapse.

The stakes have never been higher. We either enter a new totalitarianism which could never endure, or a new world of reason and freedom.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 16, 2020 12:52 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Referring to Durheim’s “The Division of Labour” as a polemic is the kind of vocabulary misuse I see daily in the corporate media. “The Division of Labour” is a sociological study.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Apr 16, 2020 2:29 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Polemic: A strong verbal or written attack on someone or something.

I beg your pardon but it was a polemic and it was directed against Adam Smith’s ‘Wealth of Nations.‘ which was an early statement of economic liberalism I think you might getting mixed up with his more widely read work ‘Le Suicide, which was a study.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 17, 2020 10:03 AM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Francis Lee, no I was not getting mixed up. “The Division of Labour” was a classic sociological study, as every first year Sociology student knows. And Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations” was actually a work of Moral Philosophy, not economic liberalism.

binra
binra
Apr 16, 2020 1:13 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Self-isolation in lockdown – allied in lockstep seeking to PASS OFF as individualism.

Being is relation by nature and by definition.

Constructs of society (ideology) like constructs of individuality (self-image or masking persona) operate a construct world (Matrix) of a reversal of Life where true cause is denied and the denial is hidden as a false flag or projected diversion.
In WANTING to cast Cause OUTSIDE responsibility in order to evade exposure in penalty, power is given to externals as a trade of for a personal or secret/private sense of control (self-isolation and social distance).

The idea being weaponised is of collective responsibility as blame that demands sacrifice of individual and unique expression of a will that is Universal, as the power source for the imposition of a private agenda taken to a deeper level of inverted dissociation under density of denial.
The individual will is perhaps best expressed in the extension of recognition of worth of another – as the resonance or recognition as one life in all – uniquely and richly expressed.
The corruption of the will is its replacement by the mind of fear and control.

Waking to and releasing fear and control is aligning in a transparency of being – releasing self-isolating focus that no longer serves to an embracing perspective that repurposes the mind in the heart rather than becoming possessed by, or framed and led by our tools.

Yes we are brought to our primary choice, are we not?
To accept truth and share in it, or to deny acceptance in the generation of a complex of diversions under fear of exposure and undoing.

Regardless conditions, they embody the meanings we gave them and habitually give them as automatic or conscious reaction. Unconsciousness within a focus upon meanings we chose to matter, remains a choice – or rather a complex of derivatives from the choice to put truth on hold…

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 16, 2020 11:07 AM

Just heard the BBC radio news state that Prof Neil Ferguson has warned that ‘it may be necessary to continue some form of lockdown measures until a vaccine is available’. I am sure I was not alone in thinking that Neil Ferguson should STF up!

jay
jay
Apr 16, 2020 11:55 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Paid puppet…paid Charlatan. If wasn’t this idiot, there’d be plenty more waiting to fill it’s shoes…
Funded by Bill Gates

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 16, 2020 12:10 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Fergusson got Foot and Mouth disastrously wrong in 2001, when millions of animals were needlessly slaughtered as a result of his recommendations. His predictions about the 2009 swine flu epidemic were wildly out (he wanted to impose ‘lockdown’ conditions then), and his assessments of Zika were wrong. To suggest that social distancing will need to continue indefinitely is utter madness. Fergusson lives in a parallel universe of mathematical models, completely detached from reality.

binra
binra
Apr 16, 2020 1:22 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

It is all ‘wrong’ by intention and design. He’s paid to deliver the models that serve the agenda of his paymasters. Just as is William Gates. Payment can take many forms and deceits – not just ‘pocketfuls of mumbles such are promises’. The conferment of elite privileges can work a one way ticket or Faustian pact.
To give up everything for a self-aggrandisement or gratification is to align in protecting it at cost of sacrificing everything to keep it.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Apr 16, 2020 6:15 PM
Reply to  binra

“Just as is William Gates.”
Agreed, but only if his “paymaster” is metaphorical – the self-aggrandisement you refer to.

binra
binra
Apr 16, 2020 10:57 PM
Reply to  nondimenticare

If you believe he is at the top of the pyramid that is your freedom.

PWL
PWL
Apr 16, 2020 12:40 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Yes, they are trying to move the goalposts as their hoax runs out of legs. (The day they announce the commencement of a mandatory vaccine program should be a signal to engage in pronounced civil disobedience.)
The smaller, earlier peak; and the determined effort to maintain the lockdown regardless

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Apr 16, 2020 6:19 PM
Reply to  PWL

Wasn’t that the purpose of “flattening the curve”? To extend the “danger” into the future for as long as they deem necessary?

binra
binra
Apr 16, 2020 12:45 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

There is only one voice talking and it is the lie and the father of it. The responsibility I take for myself is to give it disregard and listen through it rather than to it.
Coercive controls are dictating terms on the willingness to buy the story.
THAT he is given ear for advice is the indication that UK Gov and Gates are already ‘in bed’ as aligned agenda that does not have the interests of the people at heart.
UK Column has and is covering some of the underlying root systems that operate as seeming different fronts.
As long as we think there is a system running that operates on reason as we see it, we will be run as an identity of state entitlement and seek permission for being there, instead of extending an identity of shared worth from which to call the state to account.
Well the accounts are rigged to fail under a hijacked financial system, and the indentured are owned or at least set limits that they cannot exceed.

To give ear to the NF or BBC or WHO or GAVI etc etc is to listen to a Gates – and other allied control agenda’s – beneficiary. Gates is being used.

The Soviet era’s people learned to read what was being said and NOT said.

You (Life)are the virus – but if you comply, and have a use, you may be permitted to ‘live’ under their global genetic experiment.

The new wave of ‘vaccines’ or ‘immunisation promises’ are intended to splice into our DNA.
Whereas cell made virus (exosome) is designed to perform life functions within the organism, cloned and spliced viral code is a hack.

Genetic information runs on that facet of our body and mind that is a bio-computer and messing with Source Code is a form of Sorcery. To be able to ‘discover’ define and model the parameters of diagnosis and treaments or vaccines, is like owning the alphabet and controlling what can be said, searched for or found and spoken.

A novel conceit set over natural function that manages the death spiral as a substitute for life.

beer
beer
Apr 16, 2020 1:06 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

On his own terms, Ferguson is correct. His March paper predicts (p.10, Fig 3, green line on chart) a massive, hospital-busting outbreak following the lifting of a general lockdown. The new outbreak is similar in size to the outbreak that would have happened in an unrealistic theoretical scenario where no action was taken at all, and he advocates repeated general lockdowns to deal with the outbreaks that follow. This is why the Swedish policy is lower risk.

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2020 10:12 AM

Not sure where Dr Katz lives: but life was sociopathological long before CV-19. Where there was rampant opioid substance abuse; self-medicated harm; anomic suicides; pandemic racism and supremacism; and all manner of iatrogenic abuse of hierarchical and dictatorial harms (dis-ease caused specifically by the capitalist’s cures).

In as much as people were deeply encultured in ritualised harm: they became normalised by it. I’m not sure why anyone would want to return to even a semblance of passivity to extreme mental illness and violent self-harm: such is the normative ‘normality’ these days? As in the Catch 22 of the Yosarian Dilemma: those deemed by themselves to be the ‘well’ or ‘normal’ and ‘free’ are the most narcissistically normative and sociopathologically sick of the whole lot. And thus fit to continue.

‘Normal’ life was the collective descent into madness: and the life-blind determination of our own impending economically determinate extinction. The pathology of normalcy was the denial of the incorporated collectivity: that the environment is in fact infinitely resourceful. We can grow exponentially forever: if only we get rid of ‘them’ …I can claim my entitled bigger share. When ‘they’ stop controlling ‘my’ reality ‘I’ll’ be free. Perhaps ‘I’ already am: in my self-identified covidiocracy!

Well, life just got a whole lot madder. It was on the verge of such selfish covidiocracy and insanity anyway. Anyone who was well adjusted to our previous mode of narcissistic and solipsistic personality disorder – characterised by the delusion that reality really is ”out there” and ‘I’ am a radically free and individuated island of sanity (which is the deepest of all the delusions) – just took a turn for the worse. I’m not sure that it has dawned on everyone yet ‘out there’: but this is as good as it gets from now on. Conform: or it gets progressively worse.

The good doctor is a good man: but hopelessly naive. Society was intent on killing itself, and on the edge of insanity, long before the current covidiocracy. This is just an intensification of the capitalist mentality and symptomatology of ”nomic suicide”. When the normativity of the capitalist behavioural order – aka ‘the cure’ – is actually causing the dis-ease. ”Total harm minimisation”: to save the maximum amount of people to return as quickly as possible to our recurrent suicide mode amounts to an unintended iatrogenic harm. Society – or the socialisation of the linguistic suicide collectivity of the self – can only go forward by means of ever more harm. It is all it knows. Those who think we can economically grow our way out of this, can continue to harm nature with impunity, and can continue to build our bourgeois wealth by destroying the lives of the majority of humanity (who cares about the spasm rate of extinction otherwise: they are only animals) are seriously ill from all such recurrent socialisations.

So this one – the mass civilising of the collectivity of the individuality (aka the super-machinic transcendent self) – has been obvious. But what about the the less obvious constative civilisation processes …like this …or this …or this? [It’s the normative collectivity of the language, stupid!]

Aversion from an end-stage pathocracy is not a solution or alternative. To be fair: it is probably a bit late for all that. So we get well and go forward to where we left off: killing nature and killing humanity? With increased venom and violence? I’m enjoying the sanity of the moment: before the killing starts in earnest again and ‘normal’ service is resumed. Along with the pathetic denialist declarations that we are not the killers: ”they” are. Which is the perfection of the iatrogenic (self-caused) harm.

When more than a minimal few can at least admit modern life is murder, and we are part of it, then there at least emerges a glimmer of hope. When the buck passing stops and everyone takes responsibility for getting here: there emerges the potential of going some place else – averting the fate we created together. “Can you tell what it is yet” said the deviant from his cell?

The good doctor has not got a clue. He means well: but proposes more iatrogenic harm …the return to some sort of semblance of the ‘new normal’ nomic suicide pact. Only the mass rejection of that economic determinate state of mind can save us. I’m not holding my breath. I’m enjoying the holiday – on the basis it will be the last – before we return to the normal neurotic misery of socially normative madness. When the new path to nomic suicide is mapped out. The path may be unmapped: but if you cannot see where it leads – and the good doctor cannot – you never will.

[“What’s that coming over the hill, is it a monster, is it a monster”? No: it is the fascism we always wanted to create together …well, not all of us – but the alternatives were too few and ecological degrowth is worse than economic determinate ‘cure’. Only, is it?]

Steve Church
Steve Church
Apr 16, 2020 10:39 AM
Reply to  BigB

Only one small point of, maybe, disagreement. Yes, the good doctor was reasonable and, in a way, naïve. But he did, at the end, hint at the poisonous world we inhabit thanks to what we call the “normal” way of doing things, qualifying his remarks by saying that the economic part of the question was not his field of expertise. A kind of cop out, yes, but he admitted the inherent “co-morbidity” underlying said “normality”.

MoH
MoH
Apr 16, 2020 10:09 AM

These excess deaths that the ONS released yesterday are very concerning:

The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 3 April 2020 (Week 14) was 16,387; this represents an increase of 5,246 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 13) and 6,082 more than the five-year average.

Of the deaths registered in Week 14, 3,475 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which was 21.2% of all deaths; this compares with 539 (4.8% of all deaths) in Week 13.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peop

There indeed does appear to be around a third more excess deaths in Week 13 than other comparisons. This is exceptional. I am hearing various uncorroborated reports that the reasons for these excess deaths are due to the following reasons:

– People are not getting routine treatment such as chemo, surgery and diagnostics due to the overwhelmed hospitals that they went on and on about in which many were proven to be quiet, even some hospital staff laid off
– Do not resuscitate forms that the elderly are requested to sign
– People in care homes that were not being looked after properly due to lack of staff avoiding their proximity due to the hysteria. This is now being blamed on the bug to maintain hysteria and invert the true nature of the medias current campaign
– Heart attacks and other sudden deaths from other illnesses due to the massive change in peoples financial circumstances
– Suicides
– Domestic violence (They certainly seem to be fermenting this one due to how unreasonably close couples are due to the lockdown. I say get out of town for a few days as an escape valve as couples really need to be strong right now so need to keep appropriate distance every couple of weeks. They dont want strong bonds)

I expect the excess deaths to grow a lot over the coming weeks. But the BBC and Channel 4 wont have the relatives of those that are recently bereaved due to the above, as these deaths are the desired outcome and with this hysteria and changes to blatant tyrannical legislation, they have the perfect cover to increase the amount of deaths of British people, All the while they claim the opposite that we endure these insanely restrictive measures to save lives. We see this extreme propaganda on half the billboards across the country now. They are clearly fulfilling their agenda of culling the herd. Unfortunately most people just cannot perceive something as dark and evil as this.

BH2020
BH2020
Apr 16, 2020 10:21 AM
Reply to  MoH

I looked over the ONS figures and came to the same conclusion, that deaths ‘with’ Covid-19 alone cannot explain the sharp increase for week ending 3rd April. We really need to be investigating how the harsh measures are affecting deaths, I find this very concerning…

MoH
MoH
Apr 16, 2020 10:31 AM
Reply to  BH2020

Lets be frank here. This isnt a scandal, this is state enforced murder.

My other concern is that when we do eventually get off our arses and protest, they will be waiting and will use it to clamp down further.

jay
jay
Apr 16, 2020 12:28 PM
Reply to  MoH

Thanks for that analysis…
The main danger is the public who believe the lies. I was talking to a friend in my local Aldi about the covid statistics and out of the blue, a man threatened to “punch my face in” because supposedly, He had had a covidised death recently in His family. That is the second supermarket that I have been barred from since this fiasco started.
A former workmate’s wife was over-due for a liver transplant, that was a couple ago I spoke to Him…I expect She will be dead by now.
My next door neighbour has an autistic son, He is a difficult handfull at the best of times and I have previously seen her sporting black eyes etc.
There is no day care for Him and He doesn’t understand the change in routine…

MoH
MoH
Apr 16, 2020 1:04 PM
Reply to  jay

When universal credit and furlough pay doesnt arrive, expect a sudden sea change. They may believe the insane propaganda but their primary concern will be to feed themselves (certainly as stocks at home dwindle) and what happens then will be anyones guess.

The only certainty is that they want us to die as evidenced by the denial of healthcare, the stress of economic obliteration, the uncertainty of future payments and the mental strain we are enduring due to collective house arrest. The Outer Party members that is the politicians, the MSM presstitutes, ‘scientists’ and law enforcement are collaborationists in megadeath to cull the worlds population. The reality of this needs to be understood as we really cant understate what is happening

jay
jay
Apr 16, 2020 2:19 PM
Reply to  MoH

Yup, they are ensuring that the shops are well stocked…
I have my Faith…
If you don’t have Christ, then they do own you…
I don’t really have much fear now.

Paul2
Paul2
Apr 16, 2020 11:33 AM
Reply to  MoH

Does anybody have any thoughts on the many countries in the euromomo.eu data graphs that as far as the latest week 14 data show no increase whatsoever in mortality rates all through this winter/spring season?

Wales, Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Norway, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Sweden, Portugal, Malta, Luxembourg, Hungary , Finland, Estonia, Denmark, Austria are all showing no significant increases, and across the board are also showing their overall mortality rates are far lower than 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons.

I’ve seen very little attempt to explain this, except the information showing that for sure in England, Italy and Spain they are choosing to include both people never tested for Covid-19 in the Covid-19 death statistics, as well as the dying ‘with’ and not ‘from’ phenomenon.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 11:48 AM
Reply to  Paul2

There wasn’t a real flu season in Europe this year. So part of the people who now (truly) die of CV19 would have died from flu. That explains the spike to some degree. Another part, for more interesting, that is not explained by death due to airway diseases.

To see the excess mortality of lockdown/corona one should compare the excess mortality in Sweden (no lockdown but cv19 present) vs the excess risk of a similar country that was in complete lockdown, like France and something in between, like the NL.

Then you will see how much lifes were worth killing to save their economy by imposing a lockdown

Maxwell
Maxwell
Apr 16, 2020 1:35 PM
Reply to  Willem

There wasn’t a real flu season in Europe this year.

Would you have stats on that? The same is true for the US- even after the CDC predicted it would be a bad season and listed record high flu positives for weeks 6 and 7 for example we are now seeing the CDC post record low stats for weeks 12,13,14 for flu positives.

I have compared these numbers with the CDC numbers over the last 10 years and the statistical anomaly is blinding. I would be interested in seeing the flu surveillance reports of Europe over the past 10 years for comparison if anyone has it.

Willem
Willem
Apr 16, 2020 4:12 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

This is from NL, see page 19, no flu spike in 2019-2020

https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2020-04/Epidemiologische%20situatie%20COVID-19%20in%20Nederland%2016%20april%202020.pdf

I also seen numbers from Italy where the death rate this winter was actually below average. But somebody sent that to me in pdf, and I don’t know where you can find that on the web

T Brites
T Brites
Apr 16, 2020 4:56 PM
Reply to  Paul2

Portugal – Within NORMAL YEARS – data source

The most similar cases to my country that I went and saw data (Italy and Spain) are just basically the same… Including the flu vaccine coincidence.

T Brites
T Brites
Apr 16, 2020 5:00 PM
Reply to  Paul2

If we look at Portugal pneumonia deaths for a longer timeline then weak SARS-CoV-2 needs to improve the capabilities!

data Portugal pneumonia

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 16, 2020 6:33 PM
Reply to  Paul2
Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 9:29 AM

Just an idea: perhaps an open thread on what fellow posters doing to stay healthy and cheerful? I’m stuck in Tbilisi, Georgia, and I’ve had to find substitutes for the supplements that have run out. I built up a gruesome tolerance for raw garlic. Given its powers of social distancing I don’t think I’ll ever be accepted back into polite society. Several cloves every few hours are also said to be good for the blood and the airways.
Thankfully there is only a curfew at night so walking in the Caucasus sunshine is a joyful source of D. Other culinary quirks include a teaspoon of 50/50 turmeric and pepper over each meal which makes me sneeze like hell and keeps the neighbors on their toes (supposedly anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant). Lemons but especially the peel which I’ve discovered is where the benefits are. Along with a handful of mushrooms (only regular ones, I’m afraid) for the active mind. All these to replace e

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 16, 2020 12:39 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

If you can find Amla berries (probably as a dried powder), they are supposed to be a good source of vitamin C.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 16, 2020 1:00 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Wow, I’d adjust the turmeric/pepper to 80/20, or even 90/10. (IANANutritionist).

I read a paper a few years ago that the smell of citrus peel can be effective against some cancers. The smell of the peel ! 🙂

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 16, 2020 2:11 PM
Reply to  JohnB

The smell of pee too!

Joerg
Joerg
Apr 16, 2020 9:23 AM

The new video on corbettreport.com “WAS THERE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE PLANDEMIC – QUESTIONS FOR CORBETT” really connected the dots for me!

In this video we learn that the US-Government organisations “USAID” and “PREDICT” were deeply involved with the Chinese “Wuhan lab” (English named: “Wuhan Institute of Virology of the Chinese Academy of Sciences”) that were the first to have ‘detected’ SARS-Cov-2. This Wuhan lab got millions of $$ from the US health organisations (which of course are under control of Big Pharma).

And now to the ‘connecting dots’ I mentioned: For this please allow me to repeat my comment on OffG from two weeks ago:

Also this story with this Chinese oculist Li Wenliang was very strange.
Some weeks ago on youtube there was a video with an interview with a German virologist Dr. Köhnlein …”CORONA – Alles nur Panik (Dr. Köhnlein)”…

After pointing out that these tests only check antibodies of a patient and then can only register that this antibody has a genome against “some” coronavirus, but cannot define ob it’s a new corona virus or one from last year Dr. Köhnlein points to this strange story of Li Wenliang.
Dr. Köhnlein wonders why this Li Wenliang, who was an oculist – an eye-doctor – in Wuhan was so feverishly searching for a “new virus” when an 89 years old male patient of his died of pneumonia.
Oculist Li than massively ‘rang the alarm bell’ in the Chinese internet, was than arrested for this and then he, at the age of 34 years, died himself of pneumonia – caused (officially) by SARS-Cov-2.
Dr. Köhnlein not only wonders why oculist Li Wenliang was so interested in the death of a 89 years old patient (who had visited him because of glaucoma). Dr. Köhnlein also wonders why Li (not a virologist) was so eager to find a “new” virus. We all know by now that (I believe to remember this right) 85 % of those, who are declared by this test to be infected by SARS-Cov-2 have little or evenno symptoms at all.
Dr. Köhnlein also wonders how this totally healthy eye-doctor Li , in the young age auf 34 years, could have died of Covid-19 at all.

To me this story has “to much Disney” in it: There you have a young hero, a doctor who finds out in hard, busy, unpaid work about a new mass-murdering pandemic. He cries “Wolf, Wolf!” – but instead of listening to him they arrest him by this communist police. And how true his warning was and how dangerous the Wolf, eh, this coronavirus was is tragically, tragically, tragically, proven by the fact that our young brave hero – he, who warned us! – himself had to die of Covid-19.
This although we now know that hardly any healthy person as young as 34 years can die of Covid-19.

If this story with Li Wenliang was made up, so certainly not by the Chinese or Wuhan government. Those who want a “world-government” most certainly have also their people in China – unknown to the communist party.

And now let’s connect the dots: Not only was (falsely- see below) claimed the first cases of Covid-19 appeared exactly in Wuhan, where this USAID-PREDICT-“Wuhan lab” is seated. Is also was exactly that “Wuhan lab” which claimed to have been the first to have detected Cov-2.
And this strange alarmer Li Wenliang was from – with his dramatic death also taking place in – Wuhan!

To me this is clear now: Big Pharma (also B. Gates and others) started their Covid-19 hoax in Wuhan. And the Chinese government, the local Wuhan government and the Trump government are certainly unaware of the game that had been played.

Now, readers of OffG, be warned of ‘limited hang outs’. Like this article: “WHY ARE WE PAYING COMMUNIST CHINA TO CONDUCT RESEARCH ON BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS” –
https://patriotrising.com/why-are-we-paying-communist-china-to-conduct-research-on-biological-weapons/

That article is right to point to this connection USAID-PREDICT-Wuhan lab.
But than this article tries o take us for a ride:
First that article insinuates that Covid-19 is a terrible plaque of historic dimensions (no, it is not!)
Then they want us to believe Covid-19 broke out first in Wuhan with its terrible, terrible disgusting meat-market:
It was none other than the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the biosafety level-4 (BSL-4) lab that was caught illegally selling tainted lab animals at nearby wet markets, that was the recipient of this $3.7 million in American taxpayer money. And this $3.7 million, believe it or not, is what made these experiments possible in the first place.”
No, long before the ‘outbreak’ of Covid-19 in Wuhan Japanese and Taiwan authorities found out that some Japanese/Taiwanese citizens had picked up SARS-Cov-2 in Hawaii – as early as September 2019!
Also some weeks ago I read – and James Corbett’s video also mentions this – that the bodies of two Americans, who had died in September 2019 (or even August – I don’t remember) where later tested positive for SARS-Cov-2.
Liars overdo it very often. And if I would go out to research this fraudulent Coronavirus hoax I would start my research with this absolutely tawdry, slushy, shoddily story of this ‘brave’ Dr. LI WENLIANG, who so bravely ‘gave his life away for us all to live’.

Tom
Tom
Apr 16, 2020 9:04 AM

Proofreader comment:

Journeyman Pictures sits down with Prof Knut Wittkowski to discuss lockdowns, social-distancing and the best way to handle the spread of a new disease.

(should be Dr. David L. Katz)

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 16, 2020 8:47 AM

Another excellent point from Katz: if your policy to avoid population exposure has been highly effective and you are isolated geographically like New Zealand, if there is no circulating virus and the levels of transmission falls to zero, but almost no one has had it, you remain forever at risk of a resurgence whenever someone brings it into the country, until and unless there is a vaccine.
So you either have to cower in place until there is a vaccine, or reimpose the cowering whenever there is a case, or build immunity. Where the data is most robust (South Korea, Japan, Germany) the vast majority of Covid infections are mild and to the best of our knowledge they are immune. The anecdotes about reinfection are unreliable since we don’t know for sure if they were infected in the first place, says Katz.

Sam
Sam
Apr 16, 2020 8:55 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

That’s exactly the situation we’re also in here in Australia. Some commentators are suggesting that we can eradicate the virus by locking down for another few months. Aside from the economic devastation this would cause it would mean that we’d have to keep international borders closed indefinitely: the virus is loose in the rest of the world and there’s no putting it back in the bottle. With a few exceptions – including some fellow Aussies who comment on OffG – people seem to have lost all perspective and sanity here. I’m scared that we’re going to paint ourselves into a corner where we run out of vital goods; we’re very dependent on imports, but few people seem to understand this or how complex and fragile supply chains are.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 9:03 AM
Reply to  Sam

Exactly Sam!

What we have been witnessing for the last few weeks is collective madness – hysteria. Individuals can ignore reality and behave insanely until they run out of money. Then, they either come to their senses or die.

Same with societies. It just takes a little longer.

ovonovo
ovonovo
Apr 16, 2020 12:11 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Hi Clickkid,
About a month and a half back you wrote the following, which I copied and passed onto quite a few of my friends. It so perfectly sums up the situation then (and now):

“Dear boomers,
The world’s zillionaires would like to thank you for being so well-behaved and for having worked decades at your soul-destroying jobs, to pay off those mortgages which you so gladly hung around your own necks and to pay into those pensions for your golden years.. Without your naive belief in this ponzi system we created, we would never as become as rich as we are now. You dutifully spent your apathetic evenings staring through glazed eyes at the TV screens showing the programming we caused to be created. You spent hours arguing over the merits of the various candidates for political offices, who in reality were all our errand boys. For fifty years you have absorbed the memes that we created. Absorbed them so well in fact that you think of them as your own. Most of you were trusting most of the time, whether it was the incubators of Kuwait or the yellowcake of Iraq.

So, you really do understand that we would dearly love to give you those pensions, just as you must understand that this corona thing, which has shocked us all, which nobody could have predicted, has really made all that impossible.

So, unfortunately we require you to stay in your quarantine zones, which have been established for your own safety. Anyone disregarding these zones is putting the lives of others at risk, and will be punished in accordance with the penalties as specified in the State of Emergency. We expect to have a vaccine ready in the next several months.”

Most Australians and Kiwis over the age of thirty were brought up eating copious amounts of sheep and lamb. It’s possible they ingested large amounts of sheep prions which set up domicile in their brain. They really are the most mindless sheepies in the world. For proof of this you need only go to the comments sections of the SMH.com.au. This is reputedly Australias’s paper of (broken) record!! They’d believe anything and support any crazy scheme if someone told them they should “do the right thing”. That means dobbing in one’s neighbour and following whatever crazy rules that their psychopathic masters can invent to destroy their lives. They are in fact social masochists. No idiotic suffering is too much for them.

I wonder whether they’ll come to their senses when they’re all unemployed, their 4 big banks have collapsed, and they suddenly wake up to the realisation that they’ve voluntarily impoverished themselves. All for a mythical chimera of a disease which kills people at exactly the same rate as nature over the passage of time.

The SMH published this tear jerker this morning;
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/covid-19-took-my-beloved-mother-but-in-every-way-she-is-greater-than-this-virus-20200413-p54jh4.html

Read the comments. This is typical in a country where the life expectancy of it’s indigenous inhabitants is 20 years less than the national average but the death of one woman in the USA (at the age of 87!) provokes an outpouring of grief.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 16, 2020 10:23 AM
Reply to  Sam

Thanks Sam. I’m in Melbourne, havn’t worked for almost 3 weeks ( NZ citizen – sell a street mag) and was going to a different part of Melbourne each day.
In the last 6 weeks or so, have met just 2 separate people (both out on the outskirts) who questioned this.
One guy (originally from France) stated it would be used as an alibi for the collapsing financial system (which is basically what I think plus a few other things) and the second guy just went: ‘its a fucken scam, its all a big scam’ however he was in an vile mood and didn’t want to talk.
Everyone else I know, including scores of customers have all completely flipped. They’ve swallowed everything without even blinking. And yes, I’ve told friends & customers to visit here and other sites and watch the videos.
They probably think I’m a conspiracy loon. They all consume MSM without question.

Sam
Sam
Apr 16, 2020 10:33 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I’ve been following your plight in your comments, Gezzah!

I spoke to a neighbour today who originally was skeptical. Now she dons her mask and disposable gloves when she goes out. And we’re in Adelaide, which has been pretty much untouched – basically a couple of small local outbreaks, one in airport workers and the other in the Barossa.

Oh well, at least there are a few of us not buying the insanity. 🙂

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 16, 2020 11:42 AM
Reply to  Sam

True, and obviously there are others here in Oz who are on the same wave length but who wouldn’t be aware of sites like OffGuardian or Wrong Kind Of Green.
Hmm, do miss the Adelaide Hills and the Central Markets (moved here from Adelaide just over 3 years ago)

AussieS
AussieS
Apr 16, 2020 10:48 AM
Reply to  Sam

Aussies have really lost it – in my small coastal village people are calling the cops on neighbours leaving the house more than once a day! Yet not ONE community transmission here, and not a single case in the hospital. Its nuts…I have my suspicions this is a nice cover up for a global financial coup. Look for the Epoch Times doco on the origins of the virus. Well worth a watch too.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 16, 2020 11:13 AM
Reply to  AussieS

What will happen in the village as jobs disappear, incomes fall, pensions get cut and the property market grinds to a halt on collapsing prices?

Jen
Jen
Apr 16, 2020 1:01 PM
Reply to  AussieS

Don’t trust anything by The Epoch Times or New Tang Dynasty TV, these media outlets are run by members of the Falun Gong religious cult which receives funding from the US government for various digital projects including hacking. The organisation possibly also receives support and funding from the CIA and the National Endowment for Democracy either directly or indirectly.

A cult that believes that homosexuals and children of mixed-race backgrounds are sub-human and destined never to enter heaven has to be batshit crazy, yet American taxpayers unknowingly are funding it.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 16, 2020 9:22 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

It’s a classic ‘wicked problem’. This virus, itself, is far more dangerous than ‘ just the ‘flu’ I fear, as I regret we will discover.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 16, 2020 12:19 PM

All the epidemiology data indicates you are wrong.