Coronavirus Fact-Check #5: Infection-Fatality Ratio Update
The more data we gather, the more obvious it becomes that early fatality rate estimates were MASSIVELY exaggerated
We covered in our third of these brief articles that, actually, the Coronavirus is NOT “20x deadlier” than the flu. That was evident once the early large-scale studies had been done in Germany, Iceland and South Korea. It has only become more so in the weeks since.
Far from the 3.4% predicted by the WHO back February, or the 1% used by the Imperial Model, all the serological studies done to this point average out at about 0.2%.
Here are some recent examples:
- On May 19th Dr John Ioannidis et al published their review of global cases, which found lethality ranging between 0.02% and 0.4%.
- On May 4th Dr Hendrilk Streeck et al published a study done in Germany which found an infection fatality rate (IFR) of <0.36%.
- Another study from Stanford University, published on April 30th and this time focusing on Santa Clara county, found an IFR of 0.17%
- A study done in the Guilan province of Iran, published on May 1st, found an IFR of 0.12%.
- On April 21st, theUniversity of Southern California (USC) published their study on the population of Los Angeles county, which found an IFR of <0.2%.
This list is far from exhaustive, visit SWPRS.org for more examples.
Although the numbers do vary from place to place – as you’d expect given changes in demographics, healthcare, methodology, sampling, population density etc. – it’s easy to see that not a single one of them comes anywhere near the 3.4% “officially” listed by the WHO, or even the 1% used in the Imperial model.
Other studies, done all over the world from Boston to the Czech Republic to Japan – have found the level of infection in the general population to be at least 10x higher than expected (and sometimes 100s of times higher).
Regardless of the specifics, ALL of the studies show that the danger of the virus was massively over-estimated.
Compiled with the assistance of Swiss Policy Research, who have done wonderful work putting together fantastic resources.
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So grateful to find some real information finally I will definitly be supporting and sharing 🙏
I know this is probably my second post on this site but I really think we’re missing the ball by debating the severity of this disease. It’s deadlier than the flu and can cause long term organ damage most commonly kidney damage. I’m aware of quite a few patients who are on dialysis several months after recovering from the acute illness. The main point is that the globalists are now hell bent on profiting from this evidenced by the media onslaught against Hydroxychloroquine. All these headline making articles about toxicity are based on 3rd rate studies that would never even smell journals like the Lancet or New England Journal under normal circumstances. The so called science correspondents fail to mention that the patients receiving hydroxychloroquine were MUCH sicker than other patients and treated late in the disease. Obviously if the patients are sicker to start off with and the treatment is started late the poor outcome result is already predetermined (antivirals should be started early eg Tamiflu is only effective within 48 hrs of symptom onset).
The prime fallacy is that there is no treatment for the disease (there’s never a cure for most viral illnesses). Zinc attacks Coronavirus, clinically proven 20 years ago and Sars-cov2 is no different. HCQ just facilitates entry of Zinc into the cell (makes it more effective) and the doses used are no different than in Malaria or Rheumatoid arthritis. Dr Zelenko treated 300 patients with it, Raoult 1000 and no reports of excess mortality at all. Meanwhile Remdesevir that barely works is being lauded as the miracle cure which will garner billions for Gilead. Vaccines that alter our DNA are being touted, let’s keep our eye on the ball and stay alive.
Raoult has noticed that the Lancet study, that has led the thoroughly corrupted WHO to cease even trialling HCQ, has cohorts of smokers, hypertensives etc, from different continents and countries, that are mysteriously homogenous, despite widespread variations in rates of smoking and hypertension etc, between countries. That the BigPharma (the real controllers of the WHO) would use such tactics to defame a cheap, off-patent, eminently safe medication, comes as NO surprise. Ditto the 100% Groupthink of the moronic presstitute scum of the Western MSM.
The Recovery trial another large HCQ trial in Britain reviewed their safety in 1 day found no evidence of excess mortality with HCQ and are continuing their enrollment, linked below. Why the WHO didn’t do that instead of halting the trial for 3 wks is fairly obvious. Secondly if they can’t review safety data in 48 hrs they shouldn’t be conducting clinical trials.
https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/professional-downloads/recovery_noticetoinvestigators_2020-05-24_1422.pdf
Now they are starting to ban HCQ use. This grows more Evil and sinister by the day. They are actively opposing cheap and safe treatment with lies and disinformation peddled by the MSM vermin, apparently utterly determined that vaccines will be imposed on populations. Seeing as HCQ is now being ACTIVELY suppressed (lest knowledge of its efficacy and safety reach the proles) you can bet that vaccines will be compulsory, or refusal punished by some means or other.
Was it the virus that caused the kidney damage, or could it have been the toxic drugs administered to them?
Vitamin C was proven 75 or so years ago, and is beneficial for many aspects of human health, not just viral illnesses. But yes, zinc definitely beneficial, as well as magnesium and selenium, and Vitamin D, of course.
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n12.shtml
http://www.doctoryourself.com/role%20of%20AA%20in%20covid%2019.pdf
And of course Colloidal Silver… treatment for every human ailment.
not true. First of all, the vast vast majority of patients are elderly and suffering co mobidities. Its hard to determine long term effects when everyone dying is in their 80s-.
it would be a very welcomed fact if in this group of people it became known that a virus has NEVER been isolted! there is no mild case, no severe case and no deaths. every symptom you hav ever had and defined as illness is your body´s healing process of either physical or mental trauma, phisycal or mental toxicity or lack! the body´s reaction is then a detox suitable for the specific agravant. it all happens in your body an it doesn´t come from a chinese bat. any side effects/ deaths after a suppised cv infection are due to the treatment (antiviral drugs are chemotherapy light).you do not need a mask, social distance or vaccination against sth that does not exist. read your own articles! i.e. 877 lain davis. contagiousness also has never been proved because i can´t give you my HEALING:RIGHT?
Now we have areas such as New York (or just the city itself) with massive numbers of recorded cases, it’s possible use the data from them as a kind of reality check on many of the low numbers reported in the serological studies. So, New York City had about 21,000 deaths (confirmed and probable) in a city of about 8.3 million people. If all of the population had already contracted the virus, the infection fatality rate would be 0.25%. This means that all estimates below this must be wrong, at least to use as a general rate. Now, since it is extremely unlikely that all of New York’s residents have contracted the virus (in fact, several hundred new cases are still reported each day), the true fatality rate must be greater than 0.25% (e.g., if even half of New Yorkers had contracted the virus, the rate would be 0.5% in New York). From deaths alone (Covid-19 can also cause long term organ damage), it’s clear that Covid-19 is at least 3 times as deadly as the flu but the reported flu deaths are much lower than the estimates of flu death, so comparing like for like, Covid-19 is much more deadly than that basic comparison shows.
It’s a weak hypothesis which doesn’t take account of all the facts. Re: NY – Curtailed healthcare, documented lower rates of heart attacks, strokes and other non-covid emergencies presenting at A&Es due to people avoiding hospital, whistleblower doctors and nurses saying that treatments, such as invasive ventilation, may be harming patients; patient advocacy and duty of care breaking down under covid measures etc.
Just to let you know, you are required to unravel all this if you’re going to use NY in isolation to set the IFR of this disease, which is in itself a ridiculous thing to do, and especially if you’re going to overrule multiple experts and studies on IFR.
The average ICU patient suffering with the extremely broad symptoms of ‘covid’ is about 80 y/o with at least one serious co-morbidity. I have yet to see a single piece of evidence demonstrating that this disease causes ‘long term organ damage’. There are some extremely speculative, misleading and sensationalist articles out there trying to make the connection, however careful reading of these or the studies they cite reveals something crucial they choose to avoid mentioning… any effects observed are equally-well attributable to other causes, such as underlying health conditions, in these extremely-ill people. A2
Probably the best serological data available are from a recent study in Spain: doi:10.1001/jamapediatrics.2020.1346 Assuming the ca. 27,000 deaths reported for Spain by coronavirus.jhu.edu are correct, this would imply an IFR of in the order of 1.2% (disclaimer: the serological study was reported April 20, when most, but not all the Spanish fatalities had most likely already been infected; meaning the IFR might be slightly overreported).
The serological study in Santa Clara county mentioned in the main body of the article has been widely critized, because serological tests available at the time had high false positive rates (in the order of 2%), meaning that the 54,000 infections reported by that study are too high, probably by almost a factor two; meaning the cited IFR of 0.17% is flawed.
The German study cited above refers to a superspreading event in a small community during carnival festivities. That is certainly not a representative sample of the ageing German population, thus the cited IFR of 0.36% is equally flawed as comparison.
I haven’t taken the time to analyze the other studies mentioned above for flaws (none are peer reviewed studies). But I would say the response of Admin2 to a perfectly reasonable and measured analysis of the situation in NY is inappropriate.
For some sobering facts I’d like to point you to recent stats about excess deaths (and the derived z-value) from European countries: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
I’d say your response was rather colossally inappropriate, in terms of respecting the truth. This is not a ballpark for you to throw around propaganda.
This is a study in children in hospitals in Madrid. This is not a representative population study to determine IFR. Utterly ridiculous.
Is receiving criticism the same as justified criticism? If not, what a pointless remark. In fact the Santa Clara County study erred toward undercounting positives, I believe.
If you have the time to cast your busy, discerning eye over any further studies, or you’d care to demolish any of the expert opinions we’ve shared here, you are welcome of course, but maybe include some actual sources next time.
Dear Admin2, thank you for pointing out my error in linking to the wrong study. Info about the Spanish study can be found here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-idUSKBN22P1IK It seems that so far only press releases are available, not an original scientific paper. Which, by the way, is also true for the LA county study referred to in the original body of the article. But the IFR of 1.2% for Spain nevertheless still holds up.
Your comment about criticism is unfortunate. It shows how little you understand about the peer review process, an important safeguard in science against bogus results. The Santa Clara county study authors will have to address all the criticism their study has caused in large parts of the community before being able to publish their results as peer reviewed study. Or, alternatively, retract it due to its flaws.
Also, could you please elaborate how you arrive at your conclusion ” In fact the Santa Clara County study erred toward undercounting positives, I believe.”? Facts please, hard, cold scientific facts, “I believe” won’t do.
I agree with Andrew Gelman, a respected statistics professor from Columbia University, as he states in his blog:. “I think the authors of the above-linked paper [the Santa Clara county study] owe us all an apology,” he wrote. “We wasted time and effort discussing this paper whose main selling point was some numbers that were essentially the product of a statistical error.”
Please do not demand facts or lecture me about the peer review process. It is a loathsome, pompous way to score points.
In venturing an opinion I made it very clear it was from memory. However, in the latest revised Santa Clara county study they address these criticisms by further verifying the test accuracy, with positive readings coming in at 82.8% accuracy and negative readings at 99.5% accuracy. This would underreport IFR.
The Imperial College London report, used to justify shutting down world economies, has never been peer reviewed. They have never released the actual model code, merely a derivative thereof, which appears to be extremely amateurish. Here and here.
Unfortunately, “Please do not demand facts…” pretty much sums up the sorry state of this once respectable alternative media source.
And please, do your maths. Even assuming the stated percentages are correct, a 2.8% seroprevalence would still be slightly overreported (true 2.77% rate), not underreporting. I guess you fail to understand what false positive rate actually means. And the paper’s specificity figure of 99.5% is actually the manufacturers value, not something they measured. That is taking the manufacturers word that the 371 samples they tested were a representative sample, also accurately representing the seroprevalence of SARS-1 and seasonal Coronaviruses in Santa Clara county. Other ELISA tests from other manufacturers using the same antigen report closer to 1.5-2% false positive rates. Forget the Santa Clara study, there is way too many flaws (candidate selection by Facebook!) to take it seriously.
Also, I dislike your tone, Admin2. I have tried to be factual and courteous. While you, for reasons probably only obvious to you, call me “loathsome”, “pompous”, looking “to score points”, “utterly ridiculous”, giving a “colossally inappropriate” response, “pointless”, “throw[ing] around propaganda” What I’m trying is to counter propaganda on this site by pointing to inconvenient (for your point of view) facts. Your language and baseless accusations towards me disqualify you from moderating a comments section and point to some serious cognitive deficits on your end.
And I stand by my remarks. You are lying about it being manufacturer-only spec, go read the paper, it includes a range of comparison data on test kit performance. You apply a huge double standard by singling out accuracy in this representative population study, while ignoring the very real concerns of genuine PCR false-positives that exist in studies based on selective testing of the sick, potentially exaggerating IFR in two crucial ways. Yet you continue to lecture, as if I have some duty to protect your fragile ego. You are not the first person on here to engage in this level of stuffed-shirt sophistry to try to bluff out this failing argument. To hell with you.
I’ll go to hell then and continue lying there then.
With best wishes, yours sincerely
No, wait a minute. This site’s motto used to be “because facts really should be sacred”. So, no, l won’t put up being accused of lying. And not reading the paper.
On page 18, it is stated by the authors, under ‘Additional data and response to comments’ that
“d) In the manufacturer’s data, among 371 pre-
COVID samples, 369 were negative. Specificity of
99.5% (95 CI 98.1-99.9%).” That is the specificity they used in the abstract and the main body of the article. And it is the one that you referred to.
And I am not singling out this study. I am responding to an article here on OffG which states that IFRs are “MASSIVELY exagerrated”. I am not responding to an article about RT-PCR tests (which, as you correctly point out, have issues with sensitivity) or the Imperial College modelling (which I find questionable, although epidemiology and statistics are not my scientific expertise).
Also, I’m not singling out this study, but probing your assertion “In fact the Santa Clara County study erred toward undercounting positives, I believe.” And if you care to scroll up to my earlier comments, you will see that I have questioned the validity not only of the Santa Clara county study, but also the LA county study and the Heinsberg study.
If I interpret the OffG article correctly, than it is citing various studies, to make the point that serological testing shows that IFRs were previously overstated. What I have done is to question three of the five studies the statement is based on. The Ioannidis study (long time since I’ve seen a single author paper anywhere in science) is a meta-analysis rather than a study and would require more time to take apart than I am willing to spend. But a cursory look revealed that it cites the infamous study by the Karolinska, that used samples of serum of recovered donors selected for therapeutic use of their serum. Quite an embarrassing mistake for an institution like the Karolinska. And I have no opinion on the Iranian study, since I have no way of judging the validity of their lab results.
I can now add more insults from you to my fragile ego. And I stand by my remarks about you not being suitable to moderate this comments section. You seem to believe that you can prove the article correct by dishing out a sufficient number of insults. Wrong. The article is and remains incorrect in it’s conclusion, early fatality rate estimates were NOT massively exaggerated. This is not just a flu or a ‘bad cough’. Compare for yourself the excess deaths to previous flu seasons, for example in the Euromomo link that I provided.
I’ve just scanned this conversation. You began accusing A2 of being abusive when all he had done was respond to your points with factual rebuttal or opinion. The only suggestion of personal criticism of his even slightly directed at you at that point was a suggestion that the methodology you were using was “loathsome”. This is not out of line or abusive.
I think you are trying to be provocative and are too eager to perceive the abuse you want to provoke.
You are also quite clearly trying to blow smoke over a failing argument.
I’m glad to have a second opinion moderate this thread. So, please explain where I was pompous. And accusing me of lying? No smoke from me, I’m afraid. But factual argument disproving the accusation of lying. The only smoke I can detect is Admin2 going to great length to deflect from my argument about the Spanish study. So, please let me state again: “this would imply an IFR of in the order of 1.2%” Which actually goes to show that the lye is in the article itself: “… all the serological studies done to this point average out at about 0.2%.” No, not true, see Spanish study. Do you find that fact provocative? Where does my argument fail, that “the article is and remains incorrect in it’s conclusion, early fatality rate estimates were NOT massively exaggerated.”
You are incorrectly quoting this paper. In fact, given you say you’ve read it, it’s hard to understand why you’ve quoted it so out of context.
Your above quote is from a bulleted list on page 18, entitled:
However, following this list it goes on to say (my emphasis):
There follows a table detailing all the additional data they use to quantify the test accuaracy. Based on this they state the Specificity (true negative rate) is 99.5% (unchanged from ver.1) and revise the Sensitivity (true positive rate) to 82.8% (slightly improved).
In Version 2 the average seroprevalence is actually higher, although they also widen the margin for error to further compensate for false positives, which brings the average down about 6k. This makes it rather weighted toward false negatives, rather than false positives.
It’s not authored by Ioannidis alone.
The link in the main article takes me to a preprint, that says:
The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data
John Ioannidis
doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253
What co-authors do you see? “It’s not authored by Ioannidis alone.” is a fact-free statement (to avoid the l-word)
And regarding the 13 ‘multiple source’ for specificity: summing up these 13 values is not sound statistics, I can see that even with my basic statistics training. Let’s take a look at some of the illuminating examples (taking things out of context again, as you certainly will accuse me of):
Source 10) 2 false positive out of a sample of 31 serum samples from RA patients
Source 11) 4 out of 150 in pre-COVID-19 era Chinese hospital samples
Source 12) 3 out of 108 in pre-COVID-19 era plasma donors
Source 13) 2 out of 52 COVID-19 era PCR-negative samples
I think I get a good idea about the reliability of the test from these four examples. But I’m sure you will not want to face up to this, again. You would rather focus on examples where the test is working perfectly in a cohort of happy, healthy, well-paid, highly educated young (white, male) kids working at a biotech. Please get a grip on what ‘representative study’ means.
And, talking about statistics: “This makes it rather weighted toward false negatives, rather than false positives.” is another fact free statement. Arriving at a broader confidence interval does not introduce a bias towards false negatives. It simply accounts for the larger uncertainty when taking into account the added information.
At least Admin1 made it clear to you that addressing a commenter with “To hell with you” is damaging to the OffG and your language has improved 🙂
Hi, I have two questions regarding the arguments you put forward.
1) How does the EUROMOMO first graph (from what I understand it simply shows deaths from all causes) prove that the IFR of SARS-CoV2 is not overestimated after all? How does *all* the ~16.000 additional deaths in comparison with 2017 are linked causally to SARS-CoV2? Can’t a percentage be attributed to many other factors such as the side effects of a general lockdown?
2) Do you question the validity of all the studies and reports mentioned in the following link:
https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/
and base your argument about the correct initial IFR on just a single study?
@Stephan Uebel: I gather you think it’s all such shoddy work it wasn’t worth quoting correctly.
There is an asymmetric confidence interval in the revised, multi-authored paper we were discussing, rather than symmetrical. It is also twice as wide. These are aesthetic judgements, not absolutes. The paper has clearly decided to err on the side of caution in response to criticism.
Also, its bootstrap formula uses average population figures for cough / fever, which, the paper states, may in fact have been below average this season:
Also, of sensitivity [true positive] it states (my emphasis):
Is there such a thing as a perfect study? No. However, your generalised pompous dismissal of it, while describing a currently unpublished Spanish study as “probably the best serological data available”, makes your ridiculous bias plain.
You are clearly attempting to misdirect and intimidate using an officious, patronising tone.
This is a tactic often used by trolls, who appear to add weight to opinions below the line without actually making sense.
With regards all my remarks, I stand by them 100%.
May I invite you to read more pieces on this site, to get a better overview of the issues we raise here, to make engaging in meaningful discussion BTL more fulfilling for all concerned. Thanks Mike.
A2
Reuters linked to Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation…kind of like all roads lead to rome… first you go through the Gate…
I said NYC provides a kind of reality check, rather than an actual calculation of the IFR. I didn’t notice any links to information in the reply so can’t immediately determine if any claims in it are correct. NYC is a real place with real people who have caught the virus. If the true IFR really was 0.17%, say, would it really have suffered as badly as it has? And if it wasn’t a particularly bad disease, would the healthcare system have been as overwhelmed as it was?
It is demonstrably not a very bad disease, so why don’t you at least try to account for other factors??
I think the word “demonstrably” is unfortunate because this seems to be an opinion rather than based on real data (though I stand to be corrected). From the data pointed out in Chris Martenson’s update videos (eg. this one and, by the way, this guy looks at the data, not opinions).
However, keeping on the IFR. There was recently an anti-body study in Stockholm which suggested (I use that word rather than “shown” since I understand anti-body tests weren’t too accurate) that 7.3% of that area’s population had had the virus. At that time, there were over 1,400 recorded deaths from Covid-19 in Stockholm. This amounts to about 0.8% of the supposed cases at that time. As this doesn’t include deaths from currently alive infected patients, nor deaths where a test for Covid-19 hadn’t been done, I’m fairly sure that the 0.8% is an underestimate. However, it shows that the IFR for Covid-19 is at least 8 times that of flu and probably 80 times, if comparing apples with apples (as per a link I previously gave).
SARS-COV-2 is more infectious than the flu virus (perhaps 4 or 5 times as infectious) and it seems to be much more deadly as well as damaging for “recovered” patients. [citation please. -Ed] So while lockdown actions may not have been the best approach, it’s clear to me that strong actions needed to have been taken. Sweden’s approach may still prove to be a good one but they could have done a lot more to slow the disease’s progress.
I can’t read this study, however 7.3% is in line with other human corona viruses. These viruses seasonally fluctuate and epidemics burn themselves out spontaneously. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7166607/
This site has opinions from many experts, I invite you go and view them. They are share the view that epidemiologically this virus has not shown itself to be any different from previous outbreaks. There is a good chance that the ‘strong actions’ are killing significant numbers of people, who we are going right ahead and counting as covid deaths.
I invite you to absorb the content on this site, so you can make reference to it in your replies from now on. A lot of experts are out there disagreeing with this ‘pandemic’ and pointing to other agendas, let’s try not to ignore them.
Your link was to a 2010 paper and nothing to do with SARS-Cov-2. Did you use the wrong link? You mentioned “site” so maybe you’re referring to the whole NCBI site? However, I can’t find the kind of information you’re referring to.
Regarding the Stockholm study. I guess it was more a survey than a study. You can read about it here.
I’m not sure what happened to my last reply. If it shows up, ignore it as I realise I misinterpreted your comment; the link you gave was about other seasonal viruses not about expert opinion. You were referring to the OffGuardian web site, not the NCBI website from the link.
I’ve started checking the expert opinions and was not particularly impressed by the first two. Dr John Lee doesn’t know how many have been infected so guessed that it is 10 to 20 times the reported numbers. Guesses are not data. The Swedish survey I mentioned gives an estimate based on serological testing and that suggests a simple IFR of at least 0.8% (Dr Lee uses an estimate range where 0.8% is the highest estimate with a range that goes way below influenza but there were no links to the estimates). He rightly highlights the problem of recording death causes for diseases but this is also true for influenza and, as an earlier link I gave shows, comparing apples to apples suggests Covid-19 is far worse than the seasonal influenza. He says the death rate in Germany was 0.8%; I don’t know how he calculated that but the naive CFR (deaths divided by reported cases) is currently 4.6% so I wonder how that might affect his opinion now.
Dr John Oxford gives a personal opinion (and, to his credit, mentions that it is a personal opinion) that it’s the same as a bad season flu but, from that SciAm article I linked to earlier and from overwhelmed health systems in many countries, that is clearly not true. Maybe he’s changed his mind now, nearly two months after that blog post.
I’ll continue to read more opinions though.
Thanks Stephan. Please, carry on.
Not sure why your reply was placed here. Stephan was commenting in another sub-thread.
You are not taking into account the elderly in nursing homes who were murdered by Cuomo. In NY and in counties surrounding it within 100 miles, this alone brought the fatality ratio to 54% of the country. Supposedly there’s a federal mandate that state run homes must take in patients after hospital visits? We’re supposed to believe that this was an oversight after it was repeatedly emphasized all over that the elderly would be hit the hardest. Patients that had just been treated for the virus sent directly from the hospital to nursing homes. Wasn’t just NY that did this either, but other states AND other countries.
As we all live in “The Village” now, this is not quite so off-topic as it may appear. Or you can regard it as a bit of escapist(?) entertainment:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jgpv
(Based pretty closely on the original 1967-1968 series on ITV).
I wondered where I had seen Dominic Cummings before:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQrS1HIwrNvPTsGYAP7X_sB3kY8HA4V_c4FG6g9Wno6uRyp6P-F&usqp=CAU
There’s a difference between the case fatality rate (CFR) which is the percentage of deaths among known cases and the infection fatality rate(IFR) the percentage of deaths among all estimated cases. The CFR of 1-15% has remained fairly constant depending on which country you reside in. The IFR will be much lower but won’t be fully known until the epidemic is over and serology testing is done on a representative sample. COVID19 should be taken seriously I’ve personally lost 4 extended family members to it (In one case killed 2 out 5 in a family and the other 3 survived with HCQ and Zn). It shouldn’t be overblown as it is in the media with their inaccurate projections and modeling but not ignored either.
Yes, sensible precautions for the vulnerable and good basic hygiene is appropriate. (As one comedian put it, if we are not already avoiding coughing or sneezing on others, and coughing or sneezing into our elbows, and washing our hands fairly frequently and thoroughly, what’s wrong with us!) Yet the overblown scenarios and scare tactics have led to much of the world’s population being treated like prisoners. ‘Lockdown’ is a prison term.
The economic, health, and other damage caused by the obliteration of basic human and constitutional (in the USA) rights apparently exceeds the risk of this latest virus scare. Regardless of what conclusions one draws about the relative risks, the damage caused by government action is significant and cannot be ignored.
So far no one we know, and no one known to those we know, or the friends, relatives or acquaintances of those people have died- with one exception: an extremely elderly person in a nursing home, yes with co-morbidities. The people we know who have NOT diet include very elderly people with health issues, and people living in NYC, as well as other areas across the USA.
If there is anything to the ‘six degrees of separation’ theory, this strikes us as strange. (Incidently, we know we are only 4 degrees of separation from at least one US president.)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/25/corona-rage-covid-19-masks-jessa-crispin#comments
🤯
This is the worst article I have ever read on this or any other topic
Bill Gates is really getting his money’s worth at the Guardian.
The pigs running Animal Farm are now convinced that permanent lockjaw sheeple farming is a viable option and all the herd of mutton can be safely shooooed into their pens any time the pigs oink. “First the blip and then the chip.” The Bitcon game goes viral and together wih our “Shots passport” (mark of the beast) Kokzukerberg’$ fecesbook, the Goggle cage, Ewetueb and rest of the electronic gulag they will keep the herd mute and ready for shearing or slaughter as the situation may require.
Yes, we’re all going to die but we can still decide if we go out like microbes with the Kill Bill gates of hell “vaccine” or if we turn off “our” hand held gizmos and stop jabbing like apes for the swill our masters bucket into the collective trough. The ghost in the machine is the evil in the minds of the psychopaths twisting the control knobs. Refuse to play and watch them freak!
https://allpoetry.com/All-Watched-Over-By-Machines-Of-Loving-Grace
Apologies if posted before but this is excellent analysis of the COVID-19 situation and lockdown. Nobel prize winner and Stamford Professor Michael Levitt:
https://thefatemperor.com/ep78-stanford-professor-and-nobel-prize-winner-explains-this-viral-lockdown-fully/
Full transcript available on the site.
Also featured in the Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/23/lockdown-saved-no-lives-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/
I can’t read the Telegraph article but I’ve seen a similar (possibly the same) study but it was badly flawed. For example, it did not account for the delay in policy change to reflect in the resultant cases/deaths. The incubation period averages about 14 days, so you’d have to wait two weeks to see if a lockdown results in a decrease. Here in New Zealand, the lockdown definitely worked well. I’m not saying there weren’t better options but our example (similarly for Australia) shows lockdowns don’t result in more deaths (in fact, such an increase would be impossible as the virus will have lost many paths of transmission).
Mike Roberts: “Here in New Zealand, the lockdown definitely worked well. I’m not saying there weren’t better options but our example (similarly for Australia) shows lockdowns don’t but our example (similarly for Australia) shows lockdowns don’t result in more deaths….”
I’m also in NZ. The thing with an island(s) country is that borders can easily be closed, if a government wishes to keep out unwanteds – human or otherwise. Note that much of the Pacific has also had no disease. For the same reasons: remote, borders easily closed.
From the beginning, I’ve been a sceptic about the notion of quarantine. I remain a sceptic.
By very early this year, it was known that the coronavirus differentially affected the very old and those with – in that unlovely medical term – co-morbidities. And it was also clear that the death rate wasn’t particularly high, especially when compared to the seasonal flu.
Given all that we knew, our government could have imposed quarantines on rest homes, along with protections for other vulnerable groups. It was not necessary to wreck the economy: I’d have greatly preferred the Swedish approach. And testing at the border could have been used much more intensively. Oh, that’s right: problems with capacity. See this:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/417715/covid-19-huge-shortfall-in-public-health-investment-college-of-public-health-says
This is where 30+ years of neoliberalism and systematic underfunding of the health services leaves us. Which, of course, is the reason why the government went all caring and sharing about those of us in the over-70 cohort: altruism had nothing to do with it. The govt was panicked by some seriously dodgy computer modelling into believing that we older people would overwhelm our munted hospital and health system. Well: we’ve all seen how that worked out here, haven’t we? I haven’t been able to find any figures for total numbers needing hospitalisation here over the past couple of months, but reportage, along with MoH graphs, suggests that numbers were very small. The largest number in hospital on any one day was, as I recall, 20. For the whole of NZ.
Regarding the effectiveness of quarantines: consider Austria (where we have family). That country went into a very severe quarantine (including border closures, we were told) around a fortnight before we did here. The cases skyrocketed after that, according to the Worldometer site. As of yesterday, Austria has had 16,557 cases and 643 deaths, in a population not quite double that of NZ. So: that went well, didn’t it?
NZ, on the other hand, as of today, has had 1504 confirmed and probable cases, and 22 deaths (all in the over-60 cohort). And then there’s Australia. I have family in both NSW and Queensland. Restrictions there were very much looser than here, yet Queensland (with a population marginally larger than NZ’s), as of today has had 1058 cases and 7 deaths. Queensland, from the Sunshine Coast to the NSW border, is full of retired people; Brisbane’s population is larger than that of Auckland nowadays. Even NSW cases and deaths – for which I cannot find numbers at present – are broadly similar to NZ, last I looked. Australia has had low case numbers and low deaths.
Quarantine schmarantine. We in Australasia have had low numbers, either because it’s a winter virus and we aren’t yet fully into winter, or on account of dumb luck. Or it isn’t as bad as overseas reportage has suggested.
Well, I’m not going to get into the politics but have a few comments:
Why was this clear? All the data isn’t in but the rate does appear to be at least a multiple of the flu. With the lockdown in NZ, it’s hard to say what the rate would have been without it.
They started to introduce measures around March 10th, with stay at home orders from March 16th. The exponential rate of infection didn’t appear to noticeably slow until about 10 days after the “lockdown”. With the incubation period of the disease, that might have been expected. Now, I’m no statistician, so this is all from eyeballing the graphs on the worldometers website, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterise the spread as “skyrocketing”, without taking into account the incubation period and the exponential nature of the infection didn’t change much after the lockdown but certainly the doubling period didn’t increase.
I’m not sure what you mean. Is it possible to know what would have happened if we hadn’t taken stringent measures as we did? If one takes actions to prevent some projection actually happening, then one would expect the projection to be invalidated by taking action.
At the moment, I’m pretty sure we had a lot of luck, despite Jacinda’s comments. We’re a fairly obese nation and that is a common co-morbidity around the world. Whether Australia has done better may be put to the test when travel between the two countries is opened up. I really don’t know what will happen then. Restrictions here, now, are fairly loose, apart from big events and international tourism but I’m now fairly sure there is no virus circulating here at the moment, so I’m not expecting new cases other than returning residents (who have to isolate for two weeks at least). But once the borders are opened up, we will have to ensure we slow down the spread of the disease to allow our health service to cope.
Personally, I don’t want to get the disease after seeing the damage it can do but accept I probably will eventually.
Mike Roberts: “Well, I’m not going to get into the politics…”
What has politics to do with anything? It’s a question of biology: the ways in which viruses – including this one – behave.
“Why was this clear?”
Reportage. I am talking about information to which we were privy early on. Not the hysterical msm reportage, but the data on illness and deaths. On balance, I accepted the veracity of the data coming out of China, not being disposed to assume (as many people seem to) that Beijing lies about everything.
“…but I don’t think it’s fair to characterise the spread as “skyrocketing”…”
I don’t know how else one would characterise it. As I said, we have family there: severe restrictions – including border closures – were imposed much earlier than they were here. Austria’s population isn’t quite double ours, yet there have been a colossal number of cases, and many more deaths than here. Unless there was a vast reservoir of cases already in the country, the lockdown measures didn’t prevent the spread of the disease.
“Is it possible to know what would have happened if we hadn’t taken stringent measures as we did?”
Nobody can prove the counterfactual. However: the fact remains that our hospitals were largely empty of people with coronavirus. Even given the low numbers of cases here, there were, it seems, very few in that group needing hospital care. While all of the deaths were in the over-60 cohort, the vast majority of cases were in very much younger people. If one accepted at face value what the msm was reporting about the busyness of hospitals overseas at that stage, health officials could have been forgiven for expecting our hospitals to be very busy. But they were not. The sad and infuriating consequence of that has been that many people needing hospital care for other conditions, could not get it. There will be deaths resulting from that.
“We’re a fairly obese nation and that is a common co-morbidity around the world.”
Especially including Australia, as anyone who’s been there recently knows. Yet Australia, with much less severe restrictions, has had a similar outcome to ours. And Queensland’s numbers are much lower.
On the other hand: every time we’ve visited Austria, we’ve noticed how very few obese people there are in the general crowds (also the Czech Republic, or at least the bits of it that we saw). In that regard, Austria was startlingly different from here and Oz. And – I scarcely need to add – the UK.
“But once the borders are opened up, we will have to ensure we slow down the spread of the disease to allow our health service to cope.”
NZ’s recent experience constitutes pretty convincing evidence that demand for hospital care is much lower for younger people with coronavirus than msm reportage from overseas suggested. The government ought to take note of that, and do what many of us believed that they ought to have done in the beginning: strictly quarantine rest homes and retirement villages, where there are many older people living in close proximity. That would have made a bucketload more sense than imposing house arrest on the rest of us and wrecking the economy.
I remain astonished that so many people here have just meekly accepted the curtailing of their liberties, along with the munting of the economy and the catastrophic loss of jobs. I never accepted it, despite assurances that the lockdown was to protect the health of people in my age group and older. To the greatest extent possible, I ignored the earnest adjurations of the PM for people in my age group to stay home; I’ve been heartened to discover that I was by no means alone, that many other older people also flipped the bird at the restrictions and broke the rules as frequently as they could. Note that neither I nor anyone in my household has, or has had, coronavirus. Nor do I know, or know of, anyone in my age group or older who’s had it. In truth, we were never at particular risk.
D’Esterre,
If you accept China’s numbers then why do you not accept that their numbers show a case fatality rate of 6% (for closed cases, which is most of them)? From that, it is clear that the disease is much worse than the flu.
Austria’s cases did not “skyrocket” after lockdown, as I explained.
I have some sympathy for your position on actions here in NZ. However, I doubt the actions you propose would have been effective or acceptable. By no means most older people are in rest homes and young people can spread it just as easily as old people. I would not like to have caught it from my son, for example (I do expect to eventually get it, though). To avoid munting the economy, I think we would still have had to curtail gatherings, follow physical distancing and wear face masks in public wherever practical. By the way, 49% of cases were under 40, 51% of cases were 40 or over. So your claim that “the vast majority of cases were in very much younger people” (very much younger than 60) isn’t really backed up by the evidence, though almost two thirds were younger than 50.
Your opinion that “In truth, we were never at particular risk.” I don’t think stacks up if the virus had been allowed to just run its course – in that situation, most older people would end up contracting it (and still may) and that is risky. In China, the case fatality rate for over 50s is 27%.
It’s impossible to say much about what the situation in NZ would have been if there had not been a lockdown, or if most people took the attitude that you did (personally, I get the impression that the overwhelming majority of people stuck to the rules), so your claims about hospitals is not relevant. We can only go by what we’ve seen in other countries that didn’t have lockdowns until well into the spread. There is no doubt that lockdowns, if largely followed, will slow the spread (since it removes pathways for that spread). We’ve seen the R0 fall well below 1 in NZ and fall to near 1 for some other countries. Below 1 and the disease dies out.
After the father of Elizabeth Warren died journalist Mike King made a check of how dangerous Covid-19 is by counting together all US-celebrities. He counted a total number of 105,850 famous persons.
If only one of these famous persons had died of Covid-19 all the MSM would have screamed that into our ears – probably for days!
But until this day not one person of these famous 105,850 died of Covid-19. Not even with a falsely claimed reason of death (“with” corona) being Covid-19
See: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=207726
By the way: Here are some data of Belarus (Belarus has even less lock-down measures than Sweden): http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=207784
100,000+ famous people? In a country of 300 million or thereabouts? So one famous person for approximately every 3,000 people. I would suspect that most people in the USA would not even have heard of most of those 100,000.
It’s the andy warhol 10 mins of fame syndrome virUS where we’re all gonna be famous if we get it.
Geddit?
Fame… The final frontier…
I was just thinking about this. The kind of iconic celebrity that flourished in the boomer age is almost impossible now. There is too much content and too many content producers for anyone to hold mass attention at all, let alone for an extended period. There will never be another Elvis, Michael or Madonna. The talent is still there but the celebrity infrastructure isn’t.
I beg to differ on the talent being there.
Why wouldn’t it be, though? Has human potential changed that much? I find all kinds of interesting things produced by people who seem quite happy to labor in obscurity.
Some fairly prominent people have died from rona complications: The playwright Terrance McNally, musicians John Prine and Ellis Marsalis, for example. The celebrities they’d make a fuss over are young and healthy.
In other news, I was banned from the World Socialist Website today for lockdown skepticism. They’re over there fear-mongering with the best of them about the ruling class plot to let us out of our houses.
Regard it as a badge of honour Mike.
Over here, the comedian Tim Brooke-Taylor (in his 70s), and just recently, a former head of the UK Met Office, and also IPCC member, well into his 80s, and with Alzheimers (and I’ll bet, other “co-morbidities”).
I can’t think of anyone else off-hand, although no doubt there have been a few more.
would you also bring data from Russia, where fatal cases of coronavirus are recorded for other reasons
UK media is constantly claiming lots of celebrity deaths. This was a tough subject to tackle because there is so much subterfuge involved and honestly I don’t care. I know the numbers are being greatly exaggerated and that’s all that’s necessary. The nursing home deaths, the 2 Italian gov’t officials speaking out, the troops on the Roosevelt, and some real verifiable footage of someone actually sick with it would be much more helpful and interesting. For all I know people have the flu which is also vastly inflated. They’ve been lying about that all along. I have never heard any report saying so and so died from the flu nor have I ever known anyone to do so.
The article continues:
“So Brothers, no! The evil did not pass. He took a short snooze until he came back under another name. In the meantime we need to think about ourselves – our past and our future we need to be mindful of our strength and weakness. And make decisions. We had our squares and our culture and our daily practices. We still have them. That we used them as a pit, to stick our heads in like an ostrich, that we refused to organize politically, to understand the world all together, to remember all together and to exist all together, was wrong. But it was understandable. We were afraid and afraid, all and all. We are not afraid of the virus. We fear the state, we fear our bosses, and we fear each other. We fear what we feel rises before us.
As the Times unfolds their brutality, we will discover that mute, disguised fear is no longer a viable strategy. We need to talk. We’ll have to organize. We have to trust each other.”
https://autonomeantifa.gr/polemos-enantia-sto-fovo-antifa-diadilosi-29-05-3/
Greek Antifa denouncing lockdowns – poster advertising a rally for May 29 – “war against fear”.
Yandex machine translation of the first few paragraphs of the article – their reaction is quite unlike the WSWS even if the machine translation English is a little wonky in places:
It is possible, now that the “evil” has passed, to pretend to forget it, but the truth is that what the state and its chats did to us last March and April was very thick.
First the endless chain of prohibitions: it is forbidden to leave the house, assembly is forbidden, social relations are prohibited. All that’s allowed is home confinement, ten minutes in the supermarket and junk on the internet.
Then the attack on our minds:” invisible ” enemies, bats from China, epidemics. The state and its mechanisms organized the thought so that millions of people believed that they would die from hour to hour.
Then the terror of the experts: infectious and epidemiologists, scientific findings and statistics, a bunch of fascists with the sheepskin of our scientist were waving our finger commanding us to shut up, so that the “grandmothers” do not die, as if the grandmothers are in danger from us and not from the fascist scientists who arrange life and death through statistics.
And finally the cops who gained new powers over our skins: “where’s the paper? “” where do you live?” ” what are you doing here?”. So the same cops who have been patrolling our neighborhoods and squares for so many years, checking ID cards and finding out who’s a bad boy, undertook to save us from the virus. Next to them and other cops: the crazy petty bourgeois who ruffled everyone they saw sitting in the squares, the supermarket managers who measured the distances in the queues, the doctors who divided us into “social” and “anti-social” with criteria that Mengele would envy.
Oh, yes! This forcible rearrangement of social relations, the conversion of wages into bonuses, the increase in the power of bosses in workplaces, the attack on the reproduction of the working class became, he says, because of a virus! Born in China and transferred to Italy! No brothers! What has happened to us in the past two months, what we have been doing for the last ten years and what is yet to come have nothing to do with viruses and bats; what has happened to us and what will happen to us is the direct result of the global capitalist crisis. This crisis, which has become more and more evident since 2009, is covered every time with more and more imaginative scenarios. The previous time the whole thing had been explained through “creeps” who ” ate ” the money! Our inability to understand what the hell had happened to us then personified the evil in Pangalos, Tsochatzopoulos, Schaeuble, Merkel. Our inability to understand what the hell is happening to us now lies behind Chinese, viruses and bats.
Of course, in one respect, the whole thing is convenient. Because if what’s standing up against us is a mysterious virus, then there’s nothing we can do except wait to die from something we don’t understand. Its opposite again is extremely difficult. Because in this case there is something that we can do, only that something is as monstrous, as monstrous as political organization, collective views, class unity has come to be considered.
Meanwhile, we all understand that the “evil” did not pass. We all understand that in the years to come, bans like the ones we experienced on trial will be repeated, possibly in a much worse way. We all understand that in the years to come we will have to live with even less, in pocket and in mind. We all understand that as the capitalist crisis gallops, the salvation of capital will pass over our lives. At the same time, we suspect that we will face the same fascists that we hunted in every neighborhood and Square in 2012-2015.
It’s time to open up the WHOLE economy and get rid of these silly masks.
The media, various MD’s, politicians and government health officers everywhere have seemingly joined together to try and shame people into continuing to wear face masks, under the premise that asymptomatic transmission will result in others contacting the CV19 virus. When these scare-mongering statements are made, they are made as if they are facts. But are they? The answer seems to be NO!
A bit of research turned up this rather important statement from the WHO itself, which all of the above conveniently ignore.
————-
Asymptomatic transmission
An asymptomatic laboratory-confirmed case is a person infected with COVID-19 who does not develop symptoms.
There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission. This does not exclude the possibility that it may occur. Asymptomatic cases have been reported as part of contact tracing efforts in some countries.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf.
————-
As you can see, there has NOT been ANY confirmed case of asymptomatic transmission of CV19 in the lab!
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReicherStephen/status/1264606173212409857
Plot thickens. We’ve been aware of the behaviouralists behind the scenes involvement in this fiasco, but to reveal themselves by casting themselves as the voice of reason is beyond egregious.
In their second tweet in the thread:
“Be open and honest, we said. Trashed. Respect the public, we said. Trashed Ensure equity, so everyone is treated the same, we said. Trashed. Be consistent we said. Trashed. Make clear ‘we are all in it together’. Trashed.”
Surely this is akin to Emperor Palpatine casting himself as the good guy, claiming he urged Vader to be honest, consistent, equal, and clear in his murderous rampage and destruction of lesser planets in the Galactic Empire?
People responding to the tweet need to ask themselves why behaviouralists were advising government so closely and why not let the “pandemic” evidence speak for itself?
On a side note, citizen scientists in Albania discovered a cure for corona. It turns out imminent threat of revolution neutralises the virus threat level instantly, resulting in symptoms of the virus, lockdown and social distancing guidelines dissipating. Albanian citizen scientists are optimistic that a second wave is not likely, as they monitor for the potential symptoms reoccurring.
Not exactly on topic and reiterating something I’ve noted in an earlier post. It concerns the comments section in Guardian Australia. They call it Comment is Free (CIF) but it should be called Comment is Free (but no links allowed).
This article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/25/australians-are-beginning-to-act-as-if-the-coronavirus-is-defeated-the-biggest-danger-now-is-complacency
had, when I read it, 194 comments. It had exactly 2 links: One to http://www.abc.net.au and this one https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-national-alert-as-coronavirus-related-condition-may-be-emerging-in-children/7027496.article
Both of these links conform to the “official” narrative.
How do they get away with this? They want their readers to be dumbed down is the obvious explanation. No references or scientific data, graphs, diagrams etc allowed in Comment is Censored.
How does on pronounce CIC?
Thank you Off-G. Keep up the good work.
Amen
Further to Durhamgate:
These are now appearing on online sales sites.
2nd try:
Third time always works a charm
I wants me one of them there Dom-Cum T-shirts.
😂🤣😂 God, the immense suffering they’ll cause if these T-shirts also have an appropriate graphic. A long time ago I came across David Cameron being described as having “a face like a freshly wanked penis”.
Ha. An excellent description of the ham-faced pig-botherer.
I’m stealing that.
Awesome, I want to plagiarise your art 🙂 however cannot find a website that can accommodate your layout, will definately give one opportunities to educate folk in the queue regarding the scamdemic, just getting one person at a time to start thinking critically about this is how we end this, another poster here mentions Albanian scientist find an instant cure to end the lockdown, that cure being revolution or the threat of LOL.
Awesome shirt design more details you can give the better for us all.
Not my design I hasten to add. Someone sent me a picture, without a link, so I went googling. (“Dominic Cummings Lockdown Tour” or similar), and came up with that. I found the URL of the picture, rather than give the sales link. There seem to be several on Ebay.
I should add that I think this whole Durhamgate is a massive distraction. I don’t care what he does. Yes he’s a hypocrite, so are all the government, senior civil servants, senior SPADs, press reptiles and spooks.
What makes me angry is the fact of the lockdown in the first place, and I’m angry that it isn’t making everyone angry.
I note that one criticism is that his action brings the lockdown into disrepute. – Good – we need more people to do that. To start ignoring the damn thing.
Hi Mike, Love the T-shirt! I think this is the cue the public need to not comply with the lockdown or social distancing. It’s not just Cummings but Jenrick the Tory MP who has been visiting his country pile of brick which we the taxpayer fund to the tune of £1,000pcm, the Senior Police Officer who this week travelled over 200 miles to see his family (the Police put up a robust endorsement of his actions which was crap) not to mention Ferguson of course.
I should think there are many more of these MPs and officials breaching the protocol. For me, there are two things here. I don’t know how the police have the nerve to carry on arresting people when one of their own has clearly breached it and when Tory MPs, Scientists and now a Senior Government advisor has blatantly breached it. Secondly, we, the citizens should be flagrantly breaching it because quite obviously, it isn’t necessary or is the alleged virus something that only affects us proles?
MORE COVID PORN FROM WSWS REGURGITATING CORPORATE BS from MSM
Hospitals overwhelmed in California and Alabama as national death toll approaches 100,000
El Centro crisis? Really. As of today Only 23 deaths reported since March 1, 2020 in entire Imperial county where El Centro Regional Medical center a part of vast University of San Diego Medical System is located.
Imperial county: Surge capacity utilization rate 8,7% , 73 cases hospitalized. 18 COVID patients in ICU 8 ICU beds available today.
http://www.icphd.org/health-information-and-resources/healthy-facts/covid-19
No panic, no crisis only WSWS COVID porn.
I made several dissenting comments and they deleted all of them and then banned me from commenting altogether. There’s something very fishy about that site. They first of all seem to exist in a bubble, with no ties at all to any other movement radicals. Secondly, apart from some very uncustomary skepticism about 9/11, they tend to take ruling class spectacles like Corona and limited hangout whistle-blowing at face value. I don’t trust them at all now.
Sorry: Sara Cunial, Italian MP.
Sweden update. I believe Sweden is the key to the whole puzzle. The data there is no longer theoretical, but by late May is actual/observed.
Their epidemic curves are all proceeding downwards towards completion (end of the epidemic). Three figures, one the Sweden Deaths and ICU-intakes curve graphed together (plenty of lag time allowed; distortion of right side of curve minimal), and Deaths graphed against the Ferguson predictions applied to Sweden.
The lesson? Stay-Open Sweden set to lose 0.02% of population to Wuhan Coronavirus, which won’t be much of a bump to final-year mortality. Their Deaths curve suggests 5000 total corona-positive deaths, but other information suggests most of these would have died in 2020 anyway of other causes, leaving deaths to coronavirus in the 2000 people range (0.02% of total population), and even these with a pretty high average age and poor condition.
Thank you for your excellent presentation. I have commented earlier on how the rag of rags published an article today speaking of ” Sweden’s deadly folly ” based on lies and distortion by none other than Nick Cohen — I know, I too despise myself for mentioning his name.
SWEDEN IS A PARIAH TO ITS NEIGHBOURS FOR ITS POLICY.
‘Sweden has the highest mortality rate per capita at this stage of the epidemic, according to a Financial Times tracker that uses a seven-day rolling average of new deaths. It has overtaken the UK, Italy and Belgium in recent days.’
https://www.ft.com/content/46733256-5a84-4429-89e0-8cce9d4095e4
‘As of Wednesday, 3,831 people had died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10m. Denmark, Finland and Norway — which each have about 5m inhabitants — have recorded death tolls of 551, 301 and 233, respectively. Swedish authorities argued that a lockdown and closed borders would bring relatively few benefits at a high cost to public health and the economy.’
——–
It seems that if you actually compare like with like, Sweden with its neighbours, you find the exact OPPOSITE to your claim!
Time will tell which countries have taken the best approach. I figure we should have a good idea within the next 12 months, when the fallout should be plain to see, regarding health and economy. I hope Sweden hold their nerve and don’t enforce vaccinations.
Agreed – about vaccines and time – but we are already seeing the difference with regards ‘lockdown’.
The problem is, you can’t compare like with like with Sweden’s neighbours because they are not like with like. Sweden has much bigger, more concentrated urban sprawls than it’s neighbours, with the vast majority of it’s population concentrated in a handful of cities. Even with that vastly different demographic, it’s infection rates per capita aren’t much worse than it’s neighbours. And, if Sweden had not left it’s care homes open for business as normal, and exposed it’s society’s most vulnerable (a tragic mistake they have acknowledged), their stats would have been around the same, possibly lower than their neighbours.
Anyway, look at the graphs above. Thought you loved your graphs? Hell, you were spamming the comments section with them not long ago. You’ve made a dick out of yourself over this issue. And it’s not the first time, or the first issue. And now you’re clutching at straws. I’m surprised you’re not trying to tie in the fake claims about Sweden’s supposed failure over covid19 with it’s refusal to join the Euro. Surely you could manufacture some daft connection, in order to slip in a bit of pro-EU propaganda?
Swedens neighbours are saying it about Sweden – and this has nothing to do with the EU.
Clutching at straws is what you lot who LIE about the Swedish ‘model’ being better than it’s IMMEDIATE and equivalent neighbours.
Facts are facts. Only the wilful blinkered refuse to see them.
Sweden’s neighbours are not it’s equivalents. The fact that you constantly lie about such things says everything about you. You fantasised previously about working with George Galloway, then turned on him when he refused your offer. You fantasise endlessly about the EU. You fantasise endlessly about British support for brexit. Your credibility in the online alt community is shot to pieces.Why don’t you just fuck off to Bernhard Horstman’s btl?
What?? Dumb Groaner offered to work with Galloway ???
😂😂😂
And he said NO
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
How did I miss that? Tell us more.
Exactly. I can’t wait!
Tony – you have utterly and completely lost whatever plot you think you had. So you have resorted to plain LYING and SLANDER.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
NURSE!! Tony has soiled himself and is smearing it all over himself💩💩💩💩
1. LIE1.
Well the UK with 600% BIGGER population isn’t equivalent either is it?
The combined population tof its neighbours in the FT article is 15 million! 5 million MORE than Sweden. Pick any two they are the same.
So in which way is comparing Sweden with it’s neighbours (combined) even NOT equivalent?
Spell it out and make sure you let the FT know too and these Nordic states.
2. “
!!!!!!!!!!!WTFF ARE YOU RAVING ABOUT ???????
Seriously have you been at the Meths? or not taken your meds??
Where exactly do you get the idea that
2a, “fantasised about workung with George Galloway”?
That is a TOTAL LIE.
Every word of that short sentence.
I don’t know GG
I have never communicated with him.
Let alone had ANY desire or fantasy about him;
or working for him.
I have NEVER been a supporter of GG.
I have hence NEVER turned on him.
SO WHY HAVE YOU MADE IT ALL UP?
😱🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
BREXSHITHEADS have TOTALLY lost the plot – having been wound up to deliver the lies about BS for years and scare people – they are now being directed to do the same with CV.
Using state civilian and military resources to achieve political aims for their dumb masters in the 77th – think you are immune drim censure and ultimate prosecution?Following orders is not a VALID defence.
It’s their credibility that is shot.
I don’t know what your last sentence is? Who is HORSTMAN’s BTL?
And why should I FUCK OFF there??
Who the fuck are YOU to tell ANYONE where to go???
Now kindly retract your scurrilous LIES above about GG immediately or I will complain to the Admins.
🤣🤣🤣
Complain all you want, you dickhead. You have firmly established yourself as OffG’s resident troll. Haven’t you noticed how unpopular your posts are?
Try to avoid ad hom please (that goes for Dungroanin too).
PS I’m closing this thread as it’s going nowhere
You are, of course,absolutely right that Sweden is quite different from its neighbours .
And being neighbours doesn’t necessarily mean that there is any co-relation in this matter. For example , the death rate in Quebec is 4 times that of adjoining Ontario and the rate for New York state is almost 20 times greater than the neighbouring state
of Vermont.
Why the ‘Wuhan Coronavirus’ racism? It’s called CoViD 19-you give yourself away. Sweden had the highest per capita death rate in Europe last week, and the sixth highest in the world. Not a raging ‘success’, surely.
Utter bollocks though considering you’re comparing a country not in lockdown to countries which are, based on the logic used to justify lockdown in the first place – that covid is a deadly disease that will rip through populations killing hundreds of thousands. In fact it is below Italy, Belgium, UK, Spain and France which really should not be the case, unless assumptions made about the ‘pandemic’ were hugely inaccurate. A2
I thought you said that you ran a site where Comment is Free, unlike the Guardian. That’s a joke, ain’t it. You instantly spring on anyone not peddling the Party Line, yet allow truly loony stuff like ‘there is no virus’ etc, go unaddressed. You know as well as I that the situation is NOT simple, like the ‘lockdowns bad, always’ stuff that so many of your pets regurgitate. Sweden had a partial, voluntary lockdown, and more open life than many, yet there it is, sixth worse per capita on Earth, the worst from May 12-19, and vastly worse than the other Nordics. These FACTS, not ‘bollocks’ deserve proper examination, not cultic denunciation for even being mentioned. Many, many, assumptions about the pandemic have, plainly, been hugely inaccurate, and now we need to work out if that was incompetence, or something more sinister, which is my pick. As for lockdowns, they cannot go on indefinitely, for physical and mental health reasons, and for economic.
I am flattered you’ve deemed to raise your game from single-line sniping for a change. Speculation on whether the ‘pandemic’ exists in the way it is being presented is extremely important. Maybe it’s a collection of millions of constantly mutating coronaviruses being mislabeled as one cause, due to the purported lack of specificity/reliability of tests. If you can demonstrate what part of this ‘pandemic’ is caused by a virus, and what part is caused by rebranding natural mortality, you are a brainier individual than I. These questions are not only reasonable they are vital to counter illogical, fear-based assumptions. Such questions have been shut down on other sites, where mods are much stricter than here. Go there and support the fear narrative if that’s what you crave.
Here, however, I have spoken to you numerous times about avoiding sweeping, foreboding remarks about this pandemic and sticking to fact-based, logical assertions, backed up by URL citation where required. You have refused to the point you are trolling source-free, blanket encouragement of fear-based memes propagated by the mainstream media.
Whatever your position, as long as you abide by our very minimal Comment Policy, you are more than welcome to express it. However, regarding this virus, I shall point out when people argue or mislead based upon assumptions built upon fear, sans logic and fact. I do not give a rat’s arse if you object.
Excellent post!
But somehow it’s going to go into the unmentionable basket as far as the MSM is concerned.
Sometimes I despair.
In passing, I gather that Guardianista types are reaching orgasmic levels of apoplexy because Dominic Cummings went to Durham two or three times during the lockdown. I notice that it’s all over the front pages of the Sunday papers, and supposedly, Inspector Knacker called at his London house today, only to find nobody home. (He was probably at Downing Street; whereabouts of wife and son unknown).
Now, I don’t give a damn how many times Dominic Cummings goes to Durham, or anywhere else. What I do care about is that the the lockdown was imposed without genuine justification, and without proper debate or scrutiny. There was no proper reason for imposing it, and certainly no reason for it to continue. I’m angry about the lockdown, always have been. And I’m now even angrier that all the Guardianistas, and the chatterati generally are angry about is Johnson’s favourite Mekon visting his parents, and not getting angry, or at least questioning the lockdown, at least at this point, when the virus (if that’s what it is) is probably burning itself out.
Yes, Cummings is a hypocrite; what did anyone expect? They all are.
Exactly. Everyone I know is furious about this Mcguffin but quietly acquiescent about the lockdown.
What the MSM should be writing about is, if Fergusson and Cummings don’t even believe in “the rules” (as evidenced by their behaviour during lockdown) that they have helped impose on the whole of the U.K., then why should we?
Hi Novicurious, not to mention of course, the senior police officer who drove over 200 miles to visit his family reported earlier this week and that scumbag Tory MP Jenrick who did several visits to his country house without a sanction or an arrest.
We shouldn’t be obeying this lockdown for a minute longer.
Peter Hitchens has written a striking recent article about it. He believes, because nobody has been out there challenging any of this and I think he means by that that we, the people, should have organised ourselves to do this, that now, whatever happens from here on in is going to have very serious consequences for us all especially with what he describes as the Police having been turned into a Police State Militia.
He isn’t hopefull at all.
Here’s something else to get angry about Mike. I know I am, and I don’t even live in the UK, but still have relatives and friends there.
The Prime Minister spoke to Bill and Melinda Gates today via video call. He was joined by Kate Bingham, Chair of the UK’s Vaccine Taskforce.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-call-with-bill-and-melinda-gates-19-may-2020
Thank you May Hem. I will check it out when I’ve cooled down. 🙂
Have you noticed all the corporate media so called journalists huddled together cheek by jowl outside his house without a care for the social distancing rules they are jumping up and down about?
Private Eye‘s fictitious version of Dennis Thatcher, in the “Dear Bill” regular column rightly used to call them “reptiles”.
(Well, an insult to reptiles, of course).
Hi Steve, that’s the peculiarity of this alleged virus I guess, it doesn’t seem to affect Police, Journalists, Politicians and other officials who appear not to have the need to social distance.
The real story is that the engineers of the lockdown clearly don’t think the virus is terribly dangerous. It’s more evidence that this is a ruling class smash and grab, and they’re barely hiding it.
Excellent point Mike.
The article references “the 1% used by the Imperial Model”
Report 9: The one that was used to calculate 510,000 deaths if no lock down
“we make a baseline assumption that R0=2.4 but examine values between 2.0 and 2.6”
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
So I do not know where the 1% comes from.
Apart from the crappy code that does not have documentation no basic error checking or independent test results.
The many assumptions that are made in the model.
The many real world factors and how they factors interact that are not included.
This is the key part of the report.
“In an unmitigated epidemic, we would predict approximately 510,000 deaths in GB and 2.2 million in the US”
The key word is “unmitigated”
definition = absolute; unqualified. Not diminished or moderated in intensity or severity; unrelieved: Without qualification or exception;
In other words the worst possible case imaginable.
This is not a realistic approach. In the real world there are always mitigating factors.
When you build a bridge you try to allow foe the worst possible case. Normally adding extra strength for safety. But if there were tail to tail trucks on all carriageways all with the maximum allowed weight maybe some with more than maximum. Would the bridge stand.
When planning a road layout or traffic lights. You would plan for a rush hour but not the worst possible amount of traffic.
Of course the bridge would stand because that is the design standard, the worst case imaginable.
What we are dealing with here is the bridge with 4 vertical stacked layers of lanes all loaded at once with your applied loading. Is it realistic? Is it possible?
In all the history of the recorded disease ‘curves’ has it ever happened? How many Epidemiologists supported such a Tsunami of death?
Even if it was possible and by referral to the ‘panicdemic’ would not Pyres deal with the effects rather effectively and economically? (Fergusons recommendations for the F&M outbreak rings a bell).
To shut down the Country, the NHS to concentrate almost exclusively on Covid, to collapse the economy, to create death cells in care homes, to … Jeez.. who promoted this and why?
I suggest we start with the disclosure of the report on the death of Dr David Kelly and work our way forward from there. In the current circumstances “retrospective tracing of all those in contact with Blair in the run up to the Iraq war and responsible for the deaths and injuries to vast numbers of people, both directly and indirectly across the globe, including Dr Kelly.”
Is this not they way to deal with a virus? Get to the source.
https://www.facebook.com/100001304094446/videos/3022675011119272/
Hi Butties, Just to say that the NHS isn’t delivering anything really. Around here where I live, I can’t see a GP Surgery that is actually open. They are all shut. Most of the hospitals are practically empty, GPs refuse to visit care homes and are refusing admission to hospital of the frail elderly – so, whoever modelled that they would be overhelmed and imposed this lockdown just to protect them (when in fact they should be treating and protecting us) was a complete idiot – ah, sorry forget, an idiot called Ferguson.
Hey All:
Don’t know if you’ve seen the skynews reports that “The Coronavirus is disappearing so fast-
Vaccine “has only 50 percent chance of working”
Interesting also that Oxford is using yet another Monkey Virus- Not sure if you all know the history of SV40 and the polio vaccine- a major cause of our cancer pandemic to this day
” There is only a 50% chance of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine working because cases in the UK are declining so fast, one of the scientists behind it has warned.
The University of Oxford’s Jenner Institute and the Oxford Vaccine Group began developing a COVID-19 vaccine in January using a virus taken from chimpanzees.
But with the number of UK coronavirus cases dropping every day, there may not be enough people to test it on, according to the institute’s director Professor Adrian Hill.
He told The Sunday Telegraph: “It’s a race against the virus disappearing, and against time. We said earlier in the year that there was an 80% chance of developing an effective vaccine by September.
“But at the moment, there’s a 50% chance that we get no result at all. We’re in the bizarre position of wanting COVID to stay, at least for a little while.”
Which is, of course, what they wanted all along- hence the lockdown.
I’m of the mind, and it has been demonstrated previously, repeatedly then when the weather warms and humidity increases, viruses die.
Hilarious!!
This is turning into the Benny Hill Show. Good! We have to laugh this crap out of existence.
It never really took off in Greece and temperatures have been hot – 34 degrees C a few days ago though a bit cooler now. 171 deaths total, only two new infections reported yesterday and only 19 people still on the serious/critical list. My guess is that the Greeks will try to have some kind of tourist season this year though a completely normal one is not likely.
No, they will not be allowed to because of travel restrictions imposed by other countries.
Big Lie One: Pandemic
Equally Important Lie Two: COVID-19 is blown out of proportion
Truth: Evidence shows there is zero beyond ordinary causing illness. Nada, niente, zilch.
Truth: They TELL us there is zero beyond the ordinary in various ways including:
— every single media story showing alleged sufferers of COVID-19, miracle survivors or loved ones displays anomalies that complete undermine reality of COVID-19
— scientific papers clearly indicate that virus hasn’t been isolated
Truth:
All smoke’n’mirrors
Emperor’s New Clothes
Trauma-based Mind Control Psychological Operation
Problem > Reaction > Solution
Order out of Chaos
Truth: Controlled opposition pushes out Lie Two in order to guide genuine opposition into believing in existence of COVID-19 when it’s as big a lie as pandemic. The reason they do this is that it is a toothless activity to regurgitate back to the power elite the lie that they are pushing at us. To fight a Big Lie one must use the truth of “no virus”, not the lie, COVID-19 is blown out of proportion. That won’t work and we know it won’t work because the controlled opposition pushes it at us to get us to simply regurgitate it ineffectually back to them.
Before you tell us that Covid is ‘no big deal’ have a look at this:- https://youtu.be/oBuvSO071J0
We’ve been missing out on first hand accounts of people who’s actually caught the virus, he’s one. What we learn is a) its really easy to catch and b) its no fun to suffer from. BTW — this fellow hosts regular shows so its easy to find out what he normally looks and sounds like.
Another piece worth looking up is the current edition of the New Scientist. Its just a news item from Australia where they’re starting their regular flu season. This got knocked sideways by the Covid precations — April last year had a total of over 18,000 cases, April this year 220 or so.
Are you serious, Martin? Really? Your video is only further support (not that it needs it) for the hypothesis “No virus”. https://youtu.be/oBuvSO071J0
“You may notice I’m looking under the weather.”
Nope.
“It never went down into my lungs”
“It’s not just the flu … I had pneumonia last year and I had it really, really bad and it’s way worse than pneumonia.”
He says the symptoms are very weird but mentions only one: “blood feeling like oil”. That’s a new one, isn’t it, Martin? Blood feeling like oil.
As he advises of no other symptom than blood feeling like oil, we really have to scratch our heads and wonder what terrible symptoms he had considering it didn’t go into his lungs. It’s very common for crisis actors to not actually describe any symptoms that anyone can relate to. That’s a common theme among the alleged sufferers – no description of symptoms.
That there is any virus beyond normal at all is such a ludicrous farce, it really is. The perps must have such a cackle over it – but then they’re probably bored already. They’ve pulled these psyops so very, very many times before. Admittedly, this is a really big one.
This virus can cause a variety of symptoms, its one of the reasons for all the early tail chasing that went on. Just as they say that generals always prepare to fight the last war health workers and researchers tend to think in terms of what they already know — this virus is a corona virus, we’ve observed it causing pneumnoia like symptoms therefore its another SARS, that sort of thing. We’re learning, making mistakes certainly, but always learning.
Things would be bad enough under normal circumstances but we now have a mainstream culture that doesn’t really understand science but seeks to bend it to suit a set of precoceived notions. This culture peddles off the wall theories and quack cures, bending science to suit its belief system rather than modifying its belief system to accomodate the science. Science itself doesn’t reject anecdotal evidence just because its anecdotal, there’s been many occasions throughout history when a casual observation, even one that’s initially ridiculed, proved to be important, but the idea that science is ‘just a point of view’ that needs to be weighed in some cosmic courtroom against arbitary beliefs because they’re equally valid points of view is pure nonsense. Still, I don’t need to argue the toss; I figure that if people want to gather in large groups singing or shouting at the top of their voices than they’re probably the sort that reject theories like evolution. Just don’t mind me if I try to take appropriate precautions.
There are plenty of first-hand accounts, many of which disclose that their bout with the virus was largely uneventful. No doubt, when there are complications, it’s no fun. Same as the flu. But these are anecdotes either way. They’re empirically next to meaningless. I’m beginning to think that what distinguishes lockdown skeptics from believers, is a firmer grasp on what constitutes evidence.
Another priceless piece from the guardian, linking people who oppose mandatory vaccination with far-right ideology, conspiracy theorism, and now, anti-semitism. How low will they go?!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/23/europes-covid-predicament-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-the-anti-vaxxers
when you got nothing else- you resort to smear
That should speak to all about the weakness of the Covid-1984 tale
I have a suspicion that the Guardian has a long list of logical fallacies, and they have a weekly competition with a prize for whoever can pack the most into an article.
I’d be insulting lavatories if I said the Graun is only fit for use as bog roll.
We must not allow them to push us into the corner of “conspiracy theorists”!
We must point out that all we do is going after criminal machinations.
Here an example: An police inspector or state attorney, who solves a crime, let’s say a bank robbery, is even than not a “conspiracy theorists”, If the bank robbery was executed by more than one person: Yes, if there was more than one person involved there was also always(!) a conspiracy in connection to the bank robbery.
But would we now call an inspector or state attorney, who does his job on solving the crime a “conspiracy theorists”? No! Because Inspector or state attorney would also go on solving the case, if only one person was the perpetrator. They go after the crime – not a “conspiracy”!
And the same is with us: When we doubt that Osama Bin Laden caused the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon and when we have every reason to assume that someone else has committed that crime, we only follow the criminal machinations. Full stop.
And if the crime we suspect to have happened involved more than one perpetrator we still only follow the crime!
With this Covid-19 scam and this massive “herd indoctrination” we suspect two motives for this enormous crime being committed:
1) This Covid-19 crime being committed because of money. Suspects: Gates and Big Pharma).
2) This Covid-19 crime being committed because of political reasons. Like the Nazis caused the “Reichstag brand” – not for money, but for ceasing total power (“Machtergreifung”). Suspects: Gates and a lot of high ranking political persons and organisations in a lot of countries.
Let’s ask back those who call us “conspiracy theorists” with the question, if they also consider those state attorneys and judges who presided over the Nuremberg Trials having been “conspiracy theorists”!
Conspiracy theorist is a CIA term designed to protect official narratives from challenge.
Hi Novicurious, Astonishing article, the old Graun is really degenerating into a rag! I think to impose mandatory vaccination on people who don’t want it they would probably have to Section them under the Mental Health Act in order to be able to do so. Now, that would be interesting given the anti-vaxxers are saner than the other players in this game.
Gaah. The odious and ignorant Toby Young is one of the people behind Lockdown Sceptics.
From now on, I’m going to social-distance the hell out of everyone I encounter. While wearing full PPE. And, come next Thursday evening, I’ll be on my doorstep, banging my pots and pans as hard as my little hands will allow. Gonna buy meself a whistle, too!
(It’s all Toby Young’s fault, the detestable twat).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/23/vietnam-lifts-lockdown-country-97-million-bordering-china-recorded/
Vietnam = 0
UK = 36,675
There are 1 million chinese people in Vietnam
There are 247.000 in the UK
Clearly more chinese would have moved in and out of Vietnam than the UK over the last 6 months.
The virus doesn’t exist. Like HIV it is a chimera used as a political weapon to terrorise the ignorant and it is the most effective method of mind control ever invented by man as we have witnessed repeatedly over the last 35 years.
Of course it doesn’t! What people don’t realise though is the significance of the difference between “no virus” and “existence of virus but blown out of proportion”. They are two completely different phenomena. It’s not as if the two are closely related while pandemic is a big fat lie out there on its own.
No, no, no, no, no.
Pandemic is a big fat lie.
The existence of a special virus but blown out of proportion is a big fat lie.
Those two nonsenses by virtue of their both being nonsenses are together and they are both pushed out by the power elite. Hello everybody! If we can determine that controlled opposition is pushing out virus but blown out of proportion (and we can) we know it’s a lie and that it must be an important lie otherwise they wouldn’t bother pushing it out, would they?
Out on its own is the truth: No virus.
There is zero virtue in plumping for virus blown out of proportion rather than calling the actual truth of no virus.
What one should plump for is the truth, not just another lie. That makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well go along with pandemic.
Hi Petra, I think people are forgetting there are 20 Covid viruses in existence, the common cold is one of them. If I understand it correctly from the well renowned, responsible international scientists, that Covid-19 is the disease caused by SARS-Covid 2
I’m inclined to agree. NZ has officially 21 “covid-related deaths” (eye-roll). The deceased average about 80 years of age. Most are from care homes, about half in an advanced stage of dementia, who suffered a traumatic move to a new facility where they were deprived of emotional support. Did they die of Covid19, shock or simply a broken heart?
The big mistake was the Medical Profession saying the virus was asymptomatic & scaring everyone.
The much more important truth is that 80-90% of all indigenous European people are already basically immune to Covid-19 thanks to hereditary immunity so the ones showing any symptoms are in the 10-20% bracket meaning the result was always going to head South of 0.02% IFR.
This virus was well inside the population of France since 4th quarter 2019………..Then it became Political & science went out the window and the greatest scam in human history took over in a desperate attempt by Bill Gates & Co to never let a crisis go to waste!
Maybe Gates was the source but oldest proven case is France 16th Nov 2019……. so far?
There’s a wealth of links in this piece about the human virus that is Gates and the evil in his vaccines.
https://coronacircus.com/2020/04/12/bill-gates-the-caricature-of-a-villain/
The MAIN GOAL of OPERATION COVID – lead by Bill Gates et al. – is to put in action the 2010 publicly announced reduction of 10-15% of the World Population (TED Talk).
The SRF & Billionaires are not dumb! They weren’t going to use a real virus to execute such reduction, because they know they CANNOT CONTROL RANDOM!
What they CAN AND DO CONTROL is the MONETARY SYSTEM and all the sub-systems that that derive from it (WHO, CDC, FDA and so on).
With the Fairy Tale of “SARS-CoV-2” & “COVID-19” they can now execute the reduction via extreme poverty, poverty, hunger, suicides and the controlled death via vaccine and or drugs.
And with what I can see, they are being successful!
I write in response to an article by one Nick Cohen in today’s Guardian as, naturally, no comments are allowed.
He starts by claiming thr Chinese government were reprensible for covering up this threat to humanity,but offers no proof to support this assertion. Could someone explain how you can cover up the lock down a city of 11 M people ? Have the CIA been disbanded ?
But the main thrust of the article is to attack the Swedish response to the virus and ludicrously maintain that they are somehow helping right wing dictatorships who didn’t go into lockdown.
He writes that tens of thousands who trusted Trump and Johnson died needless deaths . I agree, but they wouldn’t have had the US and UK governments had taken the sensible measure introduced in Sweden. Cohen asserts, however, that the Swedish policy was sheer folly based on the European death toll for one repeat one , week, May 12 to 19 during which he states that Sweden had the highest death toll per M .
I compared Sweden’s rate to the UK’s for the week in question: UK 48.1 , Sweden 48.7 !! He also claimed that the death rate is not falling in Sweden . This is not true — the highest daily death toll was on April 21
and since then the numbers are steadily falling.
He rightly states that Johnson let the virus run amok and archly implies that Sweden did the same, which is totally untrue. Yes, they failed badly in protecting care homes , but so did many other countries including the UK Apart from that, however they the public were advised to take all sensible measures.
His conclusion, based on absolutely nothing but the ” evidence ” cited above is that ” no one will ever be able to say that Sweden has proved we don’t need to wreck the economy and risk mass unemployment because it has shown a better way.”
Sorry to be the one to break it to ya, Mr. Cohen, but Im afraid everybody will be able to say it pretty soon.
And thats before the lockdown deaths and the tsunami of coming horrors are even considered.
Some data relevant to the topic :
Death Toll per M. population
Europe ; Belgium 801
Spain 613
UK 541
Italy 541
France 434
Netherlands 339
Ireland 325
Sweden — yes, that Sweden !! 396
And , just for an ounce of perspective,the total virus deaths to date in Sweden amount to 3,992.
The number of children worldwide that die from malnutrition EVERY DAY is 16,500.
And in order to deal with this risk, the “lockdown” measures were introduced, which have resulted in:
the suspension of juries,
the cancellation of elections,
the suppression of the right to freedom of expression,
the denial of the right to assembly,
the violation of the right to protest,
the limitation of the right to engage in legitimate economic transactions,
the removal of the right to receive or refuse medical attention,
the limitation of the right to freedom of movement within the country,
limited the right to practise religion,
suspended the right to an education,
violated the right to family life,
denied the right to a livelihood,
instituted a police state by giving the police and others the right to detain on mere suspicion,
removed the right to privacy,
undermined the rule of law;
and, if all that were not enough, the Coronavirus Act 2020 Part 2 Section 90 gives a minister of the Crown the power to extend these powers indefinitely and to change any power by mere fiat.
And none of this was subjected to parliamentary scrutiny; indeed parliament passed the act and associated regulations without scrutiny or division, sent itself on holiday and decided to reconvene on a digital basis, ie turned itself into a pretend parliament. The Coronavirus Act 2020 is our Enabling Act 1933. Fascism has been implemented and there is no organised opposition.
Excellent review.
Wojja mean, Steve: “…turned itself into a pretend parliament…” When has Paedominster ever been anything else? It’s always been developed and run to keep power securely in the hands of the English-raj class and to prevent any real populist, egalitarian democracy at all costs, whilst convincing enough of we hoi-polloi enough of the time that we already have the real thing. Sick joke!
Here’s another one- and we have to remember that the “Covid policies” are ostensibly health policies devised by health officials and carried out by government officials for our health.
Here in NY State- I think it’s the same elsewhere- doctors are unable to do surgeries except in “emergency” situations- this is well documented.
I spoke to a doctor friend today- he is furious that not only is the above the case but everyone has to be tested for Covid before all surgeries where he works and he is not allowed to do any surgery (except life or death cases) until the results come back and these results are not coming back for on average 3-5 days.
And I believe the pretend Parliament has already gone on holiday, sorry, “recess”.
This is its second holiday since the Coronavirus Act.
And the pretend Parliament has already gone on holiday.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2020/may/house-of-commons-recess-20-05-2020/
Some good news however:
Thank you for this informative article.
Lockdown saved no lives and may have cost them, Nobel Prize winner believes
Professor Michael Levitt of Stanford University predicts that the UK will be rid of Covid-19 within weeks
Lockdown caused more deaths than it saved, a Nobel laureate scientist said on Saturday, as he predicted the UK would emerge from Covid-19 within weeks.
Michael Levitt, a Stanford University professor who correctly predicted the initial trajectory of the pandemic, sent messages to Professor Neil Ferguson in March telling the influential government advisor he had over-estimated the potential death toll by “10 or 12 times”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/23/lockdown-saved-no-lives-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/24/is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx
Lets hope Levitt is correct.
Nobel Laureate Michael Levitt says lockdown was pointless:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-saved-no-lives-may-150639428.html
There’s this chart from the inproportion2 blog suggesting 2019/2020 all-cause mortality is lower that 2018/19
http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/images/cumulative_total_200520.png
My bad. I’ve just seen that the chart has been updated to show excess all-cause deaths of around 32,000, a figure that ties in with a recent BMJ report citing 30,000 deaths in care homes that are at least 66% due to lockdown.
There must have been some error in the original chart that was posted at The Slog and Toby Young’s Lockdown Sceptics site.
Apologies for my error.
Muzzled zombies dancing on the sidewalk to the strains of Dancing in the Moonlight, which seems to have become the theme tune for this hoax in NY. Lincoln brooks no nonsense so he gives them a piece of his mind. Go brother!
No vaccine strong enough for that level of stupid.
Dancing with a mask covering her nose then runs out of breath. The stupidity is breathtaking.
And, what was most ludicrous was that whenever she wanted to talk to anyone she pulled the mask down her chin and leaned in to about a foot away from the other person.
God, imagine all those nasty droplets being sprayed in the person’s face. She must be in hospital by now with all her organs eaten away while she’s being intubated with a foie-gras machine.
Repulsive.
Toby Young of Lockdown Sceptics has written an article for the US Spectator in which he blames the Chinese for the whole mess because they covered up covid for so long. That accusation really doesn’t wash. Either covid is a deadly plague or it isn’t. Obviously, it is not particularly dangerous, at least to the majority of the population. In which case it wouldn’t matter if it spread.
The Chinese authorities heard about a “mystery illness” at the end of December. The China News Agency reported on the 3rd of January that the authorities were trying to identify the virus that had caused an outbreak of pneumonia in Wuhan. On the 4th of January the South China Morning Post, no doubt with official permission, put up a scary video about this mysterious outbreak even though it didn’t claim its first victim till the 10th of January – a 61 year old man who also suffered from abdominal tumours and chronic liver disease. The virus looked like a new type of SARS. The original SARS in 2003 had killed a few hundred people and hydroxychloroquine worked well against it. It could hardly be said to strike at random, judging from the general state of health of the first person who died. What reason was there to panic? The authorities had shut up the rumour-mongering doctors, but that’s presumably because they wanted to control the narrative. Who else does that? Yet while Toby Young objects to free British people being locked up in their homes he thinks that China should have locked up Wuhan at the beginning of January on that flimsy basis.
The most plausible explanation has always seemed to me that the Chinese government suspected a leak from the virology lab in Wuhan that studied coronaviruses and wanted to deflect attention (to the seafood market) and cover their backs should the mystery illness turn out to be dangerous. Under the circumstances any government would take a “watchful waiting” approach. If there was anything dodgy going on in Wuhan it isn’t the so-called “cover-up” but the sinister videos and the lockdown itself. If China had wanted to infect the rest of the world with a mass psychosis that was the way to go about it.
There were large protests in China last year against pollution (which is why Asians wear masks, you hear, disinfo shills?) Our MSM covered them because anything that makes China look bad, etc. Now it’s all silence. This Novichok-19 is a great form of crowd control. So we took a leaf from the Chinese book. The economy has cratered so the best way to quell unrest is to make sure it doesn’t happen. Get the people to shrink-wrap themselves in fear against a “virus”, get them ratting on one another, make sure they’re six feet apart, make sure they’re locked in their homes, give them some money every month, make booze shops an essential service, censor dissent, and let the lapdog media manage the show.
Can’t quite believe what I’m seeing in my region (Central Cal Coast US): people driving round
in their cars with masks on and windows rolled up, to protect them I guess from the Dreaded Pathogen, which is totally out of control here with *one death* two months ago,
and a few hundred confirmed cases of the infection..
Dear Gods: is it really this easy for the Few to send us down the Cattle-chute?
Right! When a mass hypnosis has taken place you’re helpless. I wonder how long the spell will last.
Let’s hope they don’t repeat “War of the Worlds” on the radio.
Jane, China is not to blame here. I think it knew it was dealing with a bio-weapon and took dramatic action to curb its spread. It isn’t China that infected the world with a mass psychosis was it? No, that was left to the Presidents of all the NATO countries and USA vassal states to create that. China sent their datasets to WHO.
Look at it the other way around. China has now overtaken USA as the world’s largest economy. USA have lost the Trade War with them. China and Russia are founders of the SCO who have just switched their international purchasing between the member countries away from the dollar to the Yuan. The petro-dollar, currently the reserve currency, is under real threat and I mean real now because the Petro Yuan is on the rise. BTW the SCO’s 8 full members account for approximately 1/2 the world’s population, 1/4 of the world’s GDP and 80% of Eurasia. China don’t need to do anything like set underway an international psychosis. Just look, the alleged virus appears only to have affected NATO and USA vassal countries. It’s barely touched the Southern Hemisphere. However, the USA’s economy is virtually bankrupt, China hold £1.6trn of USA debt and Russia hold a considerable amount two. If China released this onto the Markets USA would be tanked economically and would be a poor country (well, it already is actually if you read the U N Report).
Likewise, if the petro-dollar is removed as the reserve currency, and this is a real possibility, then the USA dollar will collapse. So, who has the motive to sort of kill China and Russia off? Not China and Russia. NATO and the USA.
Well, we in the UK are now being sold down the river with a one-sided Trade Deal with the USA that will wreck a lot of things including regulations. Boris Johnson announced earlier this week that they were now going to pare back Huawei involved in the UK 5G infrastructure and reduce our trading with China. More fools us. We are servants to the alter of USA imperialism and we are going to be the poorer for it because, whatever is going on Stateside our Government has a tendency to follow.
My life’s changed very little since the lockdown. I already had a tendency to spend unhealthy amounts of time self-isolating. The one thing I really miss is being able to go up the road to my friend’s house for a drink, some music and a takeaway pizza. (We’re both a bit concerned about the Stasi informants grassing us up).
Aah, the joys of being a social misfit…
Better a ‘misfit’ than a fixated, dumbed down consumer Gwyn.
Indeed, F.d. The hysterical and ignorant reaction to this virus (I mean, a virus, FFS!) shows that the decades-long process of dumbing people down via ”education” and technology has achieved its goal.
Sit in the garden together…or just ignore the stupid rules.
Hear, hear. Ignore the bloody stupid rules. We’ve been ignoring them for a while, and even more so now, following this Cummings debacle.
I get the weekend off every three weeks. Next Saturday, then, might be the time to start ignoring the stupid rules…
What rules?!
Jay, well, we can now can’t we given Cummins, Jenrick, a senior police officer and a senior scientist have all ignored them!
Something that’s always lifted my spirits, lockdown or no:
I generally self-isolate to a degree in the winter simply because I don’t wish to get the flu (I don’t mind the flu’s discomfort but I despise the spaced out feeling of being high). So this lockdown should be a piece of cake – but it isn’t. Doing the same thing voluntarily is world’s apart from being forced to do it.
I used to love going to the grocery story; now I dread it. All thanks to a prank being played on the people of Earth by their “rulers.”
Just go for it Gwyn!!
Funny isn’t it how the boards become sensible when the 77th are given their bank holiday weekend.
They’ll be back to pepper the comments in a few days as if they were always here!
👿👿👿
They’re back!
They’re working from Home…Hell…
No rest for the wicked, eh Dung…
I guess they would be as well – health and safety and all that – all very well selling CT’s against CV while hiding from its reality eh?
I will state again – there is no defence of ‘following orders’ when they end up in the docks for conspiracy to cause mass civilians deaths – medal or oath or whatever to hide behind.
Nice try…..
And easy conversion from between the posts.
“Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.
“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by suicide, adding that he’s seen a “year’s worth of suicides” in the last four weeks alone. ”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-doctors-say-theyve-seen-more-deaths-from-suicide-than-coronavirus-since-lockdowns
A tragedy that would make Gates grin in a TV interview
I read three articles from that link you provide and there are no figures provided by two of them for a “year’s worth of suicides” in the last four weeks alone. ”
It sounds good until you read all the links provided.
The oldest article – the important one
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/suicides-outpacing-coronavirus-deaths-in-tennessee-data-says
is from March 29 – nine suspected suicides in under 48 hours – and they are careful to use “suspected” The numbers are unprecedented, he said.
I would hardly call nine “suspected” suicides unprecedented would you? its the USA ffs.
Department of Health data shows six people have died of the coronavirus.
Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/
“The numbers are unprecedented” and “”What I have seen recently, I have never seen before,” Hansen said. “I have never seen so much intentional injury.”
Yet that article claims that “calls to their help hotline are up, but not dramatically” now you would think calls would be be up if they had a years worth of suicides in four weeks?
Hmm Dr. Mike deBoisblanc and Kacy Hansen must have lived very sheltered lives as “unprecedented” is beginning to sound like an exaggeration just like the pandemic is supposed to be don’t you think?
So it would be interesting to know how many have died from Covid 19 (its just a flue bro) and how many from “suspected” suicide now its May 24th?
At least offGuardian provides some sort of decent figures for the reader to fact check but frankly that link you provide is not worth the steam off my p*ss or any other readers here.
Sorry to be rude Barovsky. no offence and i hope i managed to put the links in correctly, pity there is no preview feature.
edited by Admin1 to correct formatting
Yes i arsed all the links but still check fr yourself.
Agreed!
Admins…?
Doesn’t surprise me. Lockdown and the sense of a major city appearing to be dead like in a science fiction film create perceptions not good for sanity. I am also a little claustrophobic. I wonder how agoraphobics felt?
This is the USA where the vast majority of the population live on the edge of ruin and destitution. I bet the suicide rate in China, even Wuhan, was vastly less. The USA is a dystopia riven by partisan hatred and elite greed and hatred of others.
Richard Le Sarc – you’ve got it right there for sure. If you aren’t the victim of a murder (300% more in the USA than the whole world put together!) then I strongly suspect the quality of life is so poor for a lot of people, there is, probably, a high suicide rate.
I enjoy myth-busting … which always puts me at a high risk of becoming disliked. So, when I feel the temptation to speak out about some falsehood, I ask myself of what I want to achieve with, what is my bigger aim? MY answer is: I want to breath again having a companionship of people with deep insights. In the case of the current wave of medical propaganda, I also aspire to a creation a critical mass of thinking people, people who see through the propaganda… and practice casual civil disobedience against the ongoing top-down ‘revolution’… And, ultimately, through everyday actions, heal the so many ills in our societies. For those goals, here is what springs to mind:
Albert Schweitzer, the maverick polimath whose African hospital continues to function well to this day, said and wrote : … The only way to influence people is through showing a personal example.
To that, Robert Cialdini the psychologist would point out six other ways to influence people. I regard them less as instructions in what to do, and chiefly as instructions in what to be on guard against.
What I take much more seriously is the insight of the modern field of learning and development : As Roger Schank and Nick Shackleton-Jones say and then have to repeat because it is so difficult for us to absorb :
When I show Covid-19 information to people and they refuse to even look at it, – I have to remind myself that I, I myself refuse to look at my father’s messages with food recipes and of how I should buy an air-conditioner, and I refuse to look at MSM… Those things are NOT a part of my way of life. How can one not respect that?
So…
Question : What do you do to make a person learn something?
Answer : You can’t do it directly. What you need is to show curiosity about the other’s deep motivations, what really drives those other people, help them pursue them, … hope for the best… and know that there is NO other way.
How do you do that? The answer has been – kind of unintentionally – provided by the veteran FBI negotiator Chris Voss in his book “Never Split the Difference”. To describe his message in a nutshell, reduce it to a formula, – would be exactly the wrong thing. Humanity can be saved only through – humanity, in interacting humanely and authentically.
…….
Yes, interacting with people is the way to go.
Exactly the reason why they make interaction with people as difficult as possible.
Albert Schweitzer …wrote : … The only way to influence people is through showing a personal example.
Lead on Cummings!
“SUICIDES ON THE RISE AMID STAY-AT-HOME ORDER, BAY AREA MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS SAY” – https://abc7news.com/health/suicides-on-the-rise-amid-stay-at-home-order-bay-area-doctors-say/6201962/
Lest we forget: Thalidomide: Still with us half a century later | DW Documentary
Vaccine meet depopulation. Bill Gates often talks about the need for depopulation and the need for global vaccines. But rarely in the same conversation. He keeps his two passions separate.
How could a vaccine, intended to keep people healthy, also reduce the population? We already know how. You get an antibody response but when you encounter a virus you actually get sicker and die. Enhanced immune response, or pathogenic priming, creates a pathway for the pathogen.
Tests of a RSV vaccine on children in the 1960s and of SARS vaccines on ferrets of 2002-2014 showed how important animal testing is: they developed a robust antibody response but when they countered a wild virus they experienced rapid inflammation and some died.
Fauci is allowing companies to skip animal trials and go direct to human trials. That is so dangerous it is reckless. Or is it the perfect meeting of vaccine and depopulation?
https://youtu.be/HuMbRBTZhCY
That’s not of course the link that Bill himself makes between vaccines and population; he maintains that when childhood mortality is reduced through vaccination, women have fewer children. It’s a rhetorical argument with lots of potential confounders; it doesn’t explain the same decline in family size that was observed in Europe and North America as they transitioned from agrarian to industrial/service societies, before the days of mass vaccination.
Just off the top of my head, I would hazard a guess that antibiotics may have had an impact on the birth rate in so called developed countries, using the same rationale as your stated Gates’s vaccine theory, in that improved survival rates lead to the need for fewer children, to ensure survival of one or more.
The introduction to Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope provides a counter-thesis: he argues that whereas in Britain, and a century later in Continental Europe, the agricultural revolution arrived before medicine/sanitation but created the food productivity necessary to support industrial cities; those benefits of medicine/sanitation were transferred to India, for example, BEFORE any agricultural revolution, thus increasing populations without the necessary agricultural infrastructure. Gates’ words on vaccines would seem to push in the same direction.
Nor is Gates’ 10-15% population reduction through vaccination consistent with his other comments on the need for population reduction as an “existential threat” etc. That’s why I specifically noted that Gates tends to separate the topics of vaccines and population.
Vaccines that the Gates’ have been scandalously trialling were aimed at sterilisation – there are these that are not wanted to exist in the future.
Population is self controlling through family sizes – it is a socioeconomic outcome.
The more secure one is, the fewer children one has, to maximise their progress and your own lifestyle.
That’s why the poorest have most children (aside from Catholics who knew the equation a long long time ago before they became ‘Christian’ – and made sure they would keep their faithful servants expanding).
For the actual facts, science, statistics and truth of population self limits just soend a few hours watching the late Professor Hans Rislings lectures at the GapMinder site.
Whatever the Gates’s and the fellow travellers in the selling of the myth of overpopulation have as their aim, it isn’t about raising the poorest of humanity. It is a very nasty plot against humanity by a small portion of it. It is about extending their place at the top of their Olympian mountain.
Thalidomide was ‘animal tested.’ How well did that work out?
Even the Victorians refused to use the method. It is fake science, and cruel to boot.
And guess which lot introduced it?
I really can’t make a guess. Just tell us please.
Moneycircus, was it you or someone else who posted on another blog article here that India had banned a Gates vaccine on the basis that the polio vaccine introduced in Africa had had disastrous effects?
I would like to ask Off-Guardian’s administrators to repeat some of the old articles (like covid19 being a statistical nonsense, virus of mass destruction, the articles on the tests, & the articles on experts on the panic.
These are articles written in March-April.
I am from India, and despite having access to the world wide web of information (internet) the journalists and many other independent thinkers here in India still have not read about the underlying global manipulation behind the covid19 thingie. They are still clinging on the official narrative of sarscov2 being a deadly virus.
India’s lockdown has crossed 60 days now. It is tragic, very tragic, for a country as large as India to be locked down so brutally.
You need a better way of searching previous articles.
The very poorest have been hit so hard.
Our so called leaders are hypnotised and their hearts are bricks on strings.
Hey Jay, this is an interesting perspective on the “ongoing”:- https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/24/is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx
try here:
https://off-guardian.org/the-coronavirus-pandemic/
Thanks. This link will be useful to share.
Hi R Annand, I think you will find all the COVID articles by OffG are still on here. I think there is a link to them on this site but am not sure. I do agree with you about the impact of lockdown on India especially when put in context of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of deaths per year from Typhoid, TB, cholera etc. The shame for me is to see India conform to this because they were just starting to stand up to the USA.
The Guardian: Europe’s predicament How do you solve a problem like the anti-vaxxers?
The Khmer Rouge: “Our policy was first to reeducate them to stop. If they could still not be corrected they had to be solved. They were enemies of the people.”
Moneycircus – looks like the Daily Groan is starting to promote the Government’s wish of doing away with any challenges, any opposition views and any truth. Also, looks like the old topic of eugenics might be creeping in there too. What a mess of a once really excellent newspaper.
I’m afraid this conspiracy goes even deeper – even the regular old seasonal flu isn’t deadly. Less than 500 people die from it every year in the USA. The rest? Same as Covid… “estimated deaths” attributed to flu for anyone who dies of pneumonia (which has many, many causes).
Ahhh-the ‘nobody really dies’ ‘argument’. It had to come, eventually.
I’m not sure that’s the point.
Sam, oldchap, this is an interesting perspective on the “ongoing”:- https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/24/is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx
The suited doomsdayers and their brainwashed connedsumers can’t backtrack now.
Humility ain’t in their lexicon.