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Interview Most Foul

Edward Curtin

Imagine this: A so-called presidential historian for a major television network publishes an interview in the most famous newspaper in the world with the most famous singer/songwriter in the world, who has recently written an explosive song accusing the U.S. government of a conspiracy in the assassination of the most famous modern American president, and the interviewer never asks the singer about the specific allegations in his song except to ask him if he was surprised that the song reached number one on the Billboard hit list and other musical and cultural references that have nothing to do with the assassination.

Imagine no more.

For that is exactly what Douglas Brinkley, CNN’s presidential historian, has just done with his June 12, 2020 interview with Bob Dylan in The New York Times.

The interview makes emphatically clear that Brinkley is not in the least interested in what Dylan has to say about the assassination of the President of the United States, John F. Kennedy, whose murder most foul marks in the most profound way possible the devolution of the U.S. into the cesspool it has become. Brinkley has another agenda.

He introduces the interview by sketching in his relationship with Dylan and tells us that he therefore felt “comfortable” reaching out to him in April after Dylan had released his song about the JFK assassination, “Murder Most Foul.”

He conveniently links to a New York Times piece by John Pareles wherein Pareles writes about the surprise song release:

The assassination of John F. Kennedy is its core and central trauma — “the soul of a nation been torn away/and it’s beginnin’ to go into a slow decay” — while Dylan tries to find answers, or at least clues, in music.”

That is simply false – for Dylan emphatically does not try to find answers or clues to JFK’s murder, but boldly states his answer. If you listen to his piercing voice and follow the lyrics closely, you might be startled to be told, not from someone who can be dismissed as some sort of disgruntled “conspiracy nut,” but by the most famous musician in the world, that there was a government conspiracy to kill JFK, that Oswald didn’t do it, and that the killers then went for the president’s brothers.

But neither Pareles or the presidential historian interviewer Brinkley has any interest in Dylan’s answer. As I wrote five days after the song’s release, it was already clear that the corporate mainstream media were in the process of diverting readers from the core of Dylan’s message:

While the song’s release has garnered massive publicity from the mainstream media, it hasn’t taken long for that media to bury the truth of his words about the assassination under a spectacle of verbiage meant to damn with faint praise. As the media in a celebrity culture of the spectacle tend to do, the emphasis on the song’s pop cultural references is their focus, with platitudes about the assassination and “conspiracy theories,” as well as various shameful and gratuitous digs at Dylan for being weird, obsessed, or old. As the song says, “they killed him once and they killed him twice,” so now they can kill him a third time, and then a fourth ad infinitum. And now the messenger of the very bad news must be dispatched along with the dead president.

Brinkley continues this coverup under the guise of promoting Dylan’s upcoming album, Rough and Rowdy Ways, while showing his appreciation for Dylan’s music and his genius and asking questions that emphasize cultural and musical allusions in the new album, and making certain to not allow Dylan’s explosive message any breathing room.

Here is Brinkley’s opening question, the only semi-direct one the presidential historian deems worthy of asking about “Murder Most Foul” and the assassination of an American president. This question opens the interview and shuts the door on further inquiry. It is a ridiculous question as well:

Was “Murder Most Foul” written as a nostalgic eulogy for a long-lost time?

To which Dylan responds:

To me it’s not nostalgic. I don’t think of “Murder Most Foul” as a glorification of the past or some kind of send-off to a lost age. It speaks to me in the moment. It always did, especially when I was writing the lyrics out.

Could Brinkley really think he was asking a serious question? Nostalgia? What, for a brutal assassination, as Dylan describes it:

Being led to the slaughter like a sacrificial lamb
[…]
Shot down like a dog in broad daylight
[…]
The day that they blew out the brains of the king
Thousands were watching, no one saw a thing

No, the presidential historian knew the question wasn’t serious.

Did he think Dylan was nostalgic for the bloody murder of a man he calls the king, as he sings the part of Hamlet sending his midnight message of truth and revenge to JFK’s ghost? Of course not.

Brinkley was doing what all the mainstream corporate media do: Making sure the truth was hidden behind a stream of pop cultural references and questions that would appeal to The New York Times’ aging readers who are nostalgic for their youth as they contemplate old age and death.

When Dylan answers one of his questions about his recent song, “I Contain Multitudes,” by saying “it is trance writing,” he uses a word that applies to this New York Times’ interview. It is a trance-inducing interview meant to do what the Times has been doing for nearly six decades: obfuscating the truth about the murder of President Kennedy by the national security state led by the CIA. The same CIA that has always found a most receptive mouthpiece in the Times.

This interview, that begins with a witless question about nostalgia, ends with the question all the aging baby boomer Times’ readers were waiting to hear Brinkley ask Dylan:

How is your health holding up? You seem to be fit as a fiddle. How do you keep mind and body working together in unison?
From nostalgia to health more or less sums up this interview.

Murder be damned – even when Dylan’s song that initiated this interview, “Murder Most Foul,” truly startles and is a redemptive song.
For Dylan holds the mirror up for us. He unlocks the door to the painful and sickening truth of JFK’s assassination. He shoves the listener in, and, as he writes in Chronicles, “your head has to go into a different place. Sometimes it takes a certain somebody to make you realize it.”

Bob is that certain somebody.

“What is the truth and where did it go?” he asks.

Brinkley asks other questions to take your head to places where you won’t see a thing. It’s quite a magic trick.

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Jeffrey Schreiber
Jeffrey Schreiber
Jun 19, 2020 2:24 AM

The song is way overdue and certainly not a shocker since a vast majority of Americans now believe that Oswald wasn’t a lone gunman. Seems like those still buying that narrative also believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Having been an impressionable adolescent in the awakening times they called the late 1960’s there were some songs about the murders that moved me in different very unique ways. Emerson,Lake and Palmer’s Lucky Man was a sentimental view of JFK’s death as the downfall of Camelot. A very beautiful song to say the least. Then there was David Crosby’s Long Time Gone on CSN’s first album written on the night of RFK’s death which happened to be the night I graduated from high school. It’s a powerful song that became for many of us a call to speak out against the madness while encouraging us to not get ourselves elected unless we cut our hair. A highlight of a true masterpiece of what is considered the first supergroup. But the song that gets me in the heart every time I hear it came from an unsung poet of early rock and roll, Dion, whose Abraham Martin and John greeted me as I left home and started college. The song is as close to a prayer as any I’ve ever heard and immortalized not just four lost icons but our lost innocence as well. BTW I had 2 close encounters with Dion over the years. One of the kindest people I’ve ever met.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 20, 2020 11:53 AM

My vote stuffed multiple times in the ballot box, for best version:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ZBiH5fsKJB8

“Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?” –Lincoln

John
John
Jun 17, 2020 3:15 PM

“and the interviewer never asks the singer about the specific allegations in his song ”

Reality is tedious, vulgar and dirty. Art should give people a chance to rise above this mud which is reality from time to time. Art should hover above reality, and so make people hover above it in their minds. When the subject of art contains those things of human affairs which are dirty’, it should do this in a way which narrates enough to contemplate about in itself, but it should not drag people down into reality, in fact, that is the art of art. To discuss ‘specifics’, making some work of art the occasion for it, is about dragging people down into the dirt of reality, and the realm of the tedious. There are enough reality porn media (news media) dragging people down as it is.

In short, to try to connect art to reality, attempting to lead it into the domain of facts and tedious never ending debate is an act of dragging it into the realm of vulgarity. Perhaps typical for a medium of which the slogan is that facts should be sacred. Which is a severe error, facts are facts, often unavoidably real, it is art which belongs to the realm of the sacred, the realm of the ideal, of aspiration and devotion to what is not yet realized.

Gall
Gall
Jun 17, 2020 3:08 AM

Even though the House Select Committee on Assassination concluded over 40 years ago that Kennedy’s death involved a conspiracy of some kind. The paper of “record” or more accurately stuck record keeps promoting the conclusion of the Warren Commission as if it was holy writ. In other words a belief that is unalterable like Genesis for many fundamentalist Christians.
 
I call it faith based “journalism”.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 17, 2020 3:20 AM
Reply to  Gall

That’s the point. As they say in court, in establishing the “mens rea” for a conviction, it’s all done in “bad faith”. I’d call it “Bad Faith Journalism”.

Gall
Gall
Jun 18, 2020 11:53 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

That too.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 2:02 AM
Reply to  Gall

Well, yes, that too, clearly, but my point in adding it is to take pains not to give faith a bad name by saying it’s faith based, but rather to emphasize the character of its bad faith.

Otherwise we could say that the Easter Bunny is faith-based.

But its poorly-informed or weakly-formed faith, or credulity-based. Not faith-based.

Mercenary credulous and disingenuous journalism?

In brief, pimping, so any faith worthy of that word plays no part of it.

Darren Hiebert
Darren Hiebert
Jun 18, 2020 9:29 PM
Reply to  Gall

The Warren Commission was the creation by dominant elites, at the highest level of the global financial system, and of course, those who benefitted the greatest…the Zionist Israelis trying to complete their clandestine nuclear weapons production plant at Dimona, which JFK so vehemently opposed. JFK foresaw the chaos of Israeli hegemony over the region of Arab nations and he knew that Israeli/Jewish aspirations lay way beyond their borders.

Gall
Gall
Jun 19, 2020 12:04 AM
Reply to  Darren Hiebert

This is the exact premise given by Michael Collins Piper in his book Final Judgement:
 
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/File:Final_Judgment.pdf
 
Much the same wet team using different players of course who took down the World Trade Center.
 
Here’s some trivia for you. The alternate name for Permindex where it was believed the plot to take out Kennedy was hatched was the “World Trade Center”.
 
Don’t you just love coincidences?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 2:13 AM
Reply to  Gall

The Dallas and New Orleans perps were just affiliates, the hit was called higher up by exalted Freemasons, in Wall Street, because JFK was laying down solid foundations through RC Church with Pope St. John XXIII as liaison with Kruschev to end the Cold War, and Freemasonry is pledged forever to destroy the Catholic Church, as was blatantly demonstrated in the Cristero War 40 years prior when President Calles of Mexico had priests shot on sight, and any and all Catholics massacred, and was later given an award by the Mexican Lodges of Scottish Rite Freemasons there for “his work against the Catholic Church.”

These people wanted no part of an end to wars and no part of the Catholic Kennedys and those ties to world pea

Pretty clear to me anyway.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 2:24 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Read: “world peace” (obviously, but the interfaces and/or links wreak havoc with my texts in the most treacherous ways, no matter the reasons! lol)

Thom
Thom
Jun 16, 2020 2:58 PM

It is possible too, of course, that Dylan chose not to elaborate on what he said in the song.
I’ve never been an obsessive Bob fan but he has always been bubbing under in my music collection.
I do think that Murder Most Foul may well be the pinnacle of his career – an extremely brave but also very moving song, about the battle between good and evil that goes on behind the pop trivia.
 

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 16, 2020 1:00 PM

I’m mystified why people generally do not pick up on the most salient fact of the many psyops perpetrated upon us when the moment I learnt this fact myself I absorbed it gratefully in an instant, relieved to find an explanation for elements of the psyops I was then aware of that had puzzled me greatly … and surely would puzzle others … and have used as the lens since that fateful day to view all psyops I’ve become aware of since. When you use this salient fact as a lens to analyse any event you suspect to be a psyop it is all so clear in an instant. Why do people simply not recognise the most salient fact? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
 
It’s so simple. They tell us. It’s all “hidden in plain sight”. They rub it in our faces.
 
In the JFK assassination, examples are:
 
— a $12 relic of WWII Mussolini’s armed forces, a Carcano that wasn’t even sighted in (compare 9/11 boxcutters), was allegedly the rifle chosen by Lee Harvey Oswald for his crackshot assassination. As if.
 
— Oswald also speaks the truth when he says, “I’m just a patsy“. “I’m just a patsy” has two functions: to signal the truth and, paradoxically, as propaganda aimed at skeptics to persuade us that Oswald needed to be silenced due to this indication he might spill the beans. Agents don’t spill the beans. That’s not what they do. He was hired to do his job of playing patsy and he did it, including reciting the scripted line, “I’m just a patsy.’ Why would they kill him for doing his job when they could just follow the standard practice of “sheepdipping” him (providing a new identity)? Even taking into account different camera angles, there is no still from the footage of him being SHOT ON LIVE TV that can match the photograph (another obvious sign – of different takes). They also provide us with propaganda to persuade us that Jack Ruby did the killing but only very reluctantly. He was apparently “under pressure from the Mafia” and both an (unnamed) daughter of an ex-flame and an (unnamed) niece claim that he obviously couldn’t have been planning to kill him when he went to the jail because he’d brought his beloved little weenie, Sheba, with him in the car and he would never have brought Sheba if he’d really been planning on killing Oswald, knowing that he would be whisked off to the cells and thus obliged to abandon her. Doncha love it? (Completely swallowed it myself initially.) They told us Ruby was put in jail. Why on earth would they have done that to him?
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 9:05 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

It’s an interesting point about the CIA nature of Lee’s profile. The feds have never copped to that, although Fidel Castro spoke of it in a Cuba-wide broadcast THE NEXT DAY (“Concerning the Facts and Consequences of the Tragic Death….” online) so that it was clear commie intel knew it, and even some here. In the movie “Parkland” his mother Marguerite Oswald keeps annoying people with her Dallas twanging: “My son was a CIA agent”.

So a spy is trained not to spill the beans.
But then, what if he was set up? And knew how. He might go public, which is what many deduce, but they surely had the means to shut him up before he talked, before he spoke the “patsy” word.

Most of the “truth-tellers” don’t properly retrofit their analyses, i.e., their solutions to the riddles might make a lot more sense if “we” had known then as much as we know now. But the chronology we knew then was much different.

And so on. But I’m not prepared to believe JFK wasn’t removed from office, because he has never appeared much since.

Forget I said that. The holes Petra pokes in the story are worth considering, but I don’t buy outright that a hole is then the explanation of a psyop. But there are sure a lot of holes. Not just one: that Magic Hole that can do all things, like that bullet.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 2:19 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

LHO could say “Im just a patsy” but really mean it, even ad libbed, if he knew his hours were numbered. If he knew he was set up. There is footage of Jack Ruby the NIGHT BEFORE in the press throng. There is substantial evidence that LHO knew he’d been set up, with few options. That’s how I figured it. I’m not saying your explanation is patently provably wrong, just careful how you use that Occam’s razor, as you go.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 19, 2020 5:37 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Do you agree, John, that when the power elite psyop us an extremely important element for them is “control of the story” – that they would, for example, engineer as much as possible for ad libbing not to have a place to screw up their story and that hiring people to ensure the story is not screwed up with ad libbing and suchlike is is as easy as 1-2-3 and thus it would be strange for them not to hire people to ensure “control of the story”? Why would they choose to “set up” someone who might screw things up with ad libbing that they then need to kill to silence when they can simply hire an agent to recite a scripted line? Also, it seems odd that Oswald would simply blurt out, “I’m just a patsy”. If he’s going to say that wouldn’t it be more sensible for him to say, “It’s X, Y and Z who are responsible, I’m just a patsy,” rather than simply, “I’m just a patsy.” If you disagree that the power elite always aim for “control of the story” and that in the case of the JFK assassination it would make much more sense to hire a patsy “in the know” rather than someone unaware, please say why.
 
We know from how dominated by “controlled opposition” the 9/11 truth movement is that the power elite infiltrate “the opposition” like a mutant octopus and have a complete stranglehold on it. If you do an internet search for “controlled opposition” you’ll find the alleged quote from Lenin, “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” Whether he said it or not, promoting Lenin’s saying of it is pure propaganda. “Controlled opposition” has been around since ancient times and the power elite know that in order to control the world they must control the opposition … by leading it. “Controlled opposition,” of course, is an excellent means of controlling the story.
 

There is footage of Jack Ruby the NIGHT BEFORE in the press throng.

 
 
I don’t get your point here, John.
 
 

There is substantial evidence that LHO knew he’d been set up.

 
HIs knowing can be in one of two ways, right?
 
1. He knew he was set up, that they would pretend to kill him and he would be sheepdipped afterwards
 
2. He was set up without his “agreement” so to speak in which case obviously he would be doubtful about what his future would involve, no?
 
Surely, if it were the second way he would not have simply said, “I’m just a patsy,” but said a few more words to implicate the organising culprits.
 
Also, we all know from his vantage point he couldn’t have made the alleged assassination shots anyway, the rifle he chose was ludicrous … it’s all completely ridiculous. And, there is, of course, the incontrovertible evidence that the famous photo of him being shot does not match any still in the SHOT ON LIVE TV video, thus his alleged shooting required at least two takes – I think there’s evidence there were even more takes. It is seriously a big fat joke.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/lho-shot-tvphoto-comparison.html
 
I think it’s game, set and match, John, that Oswald was an agent hired to play patsy and he was sheepdipped afterwards. There is simply no good argument against it but I’m willing to read one if you think you have it.
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 8:19 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

That’s a plateful you give me there, Petra, I will make the study of these issues a continuing project since I have been with them over years, and I got the hook lodged deep down my gullet, but I won’t be able to do it justice tonight, especially on this sorry smartphone keyboard. They are all very good questions and challenge much of what I know about the storyline. (And this whole study is the Moveable Feast par excellence, which can be started up again when I have more data.)

One quick answer: I read a year ago Patrick Nolan’s book, only a few years old, “CIA Rogues: the Killing of the Kennedys” and he has about 2000 endnotes and references, so it’s pretty well documented (it’s also edited by David Talbot, at Skyhorse, who edited our school magazine a half century ago, the rival to the one I started, “Palantìr” –which many of the faculty at our tiny military school said was the better one; I get an endless kick out of that, since Talbot is practically the doyen of the current assassination research community, and we still haven’t met!) I sent for the book and, stuck down in San Diego (where Sirhan is incarcerated, after having his throat gashed last August!?), I had to make a two hundred mile R/T just to get it at my P.O.B. since it mentioned my father’s client, founder of Philosophical Research Society, which Sirhan was visiting in late 1967.

The book details Oswald in the first half, in a recounting of Jack Ruby’s movements in the several days of the weekend of the JFK murder and it points out that he appears on some footage of live TV coverage on the 2nd Story of the Dallas jail where Oswald was being quizzed Saturday night, 11.23, if memory serves me. Also noted was that Ruby would have needed a press pass and clearance from PD to get there, since only lawmen and press were allowed, and there was already a very big crush of reporters. I have not yet tracked down the footage, though I suspect it’s archival and YouTubed. So I take Nolan, a Dartmouth prof, at his word, and it’s voluminously footnoted.

So assuming that’s all reliable info, as I do, what was Ruby doing there the night before the shooting, and how did he get in?

The problem with much of the theorizing I see is that many try to retrofit explanations, but seem to do so as though in one of those “Back to the Future” sequels, with shifting parallel timelines. If I’m making any sense?

I just state that it’s one conundrum among many, not an insoluble one, but I’m not able to do it due diligence tonight!

So, ciao, for now!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 9:10 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I TOLD YOU I WAS HOOKED. IT’S REALLY LATE HERE, BUT ONE ELABORATION ON YOUR QUESTION:

**2. He was set up without his “agreement” so to speak in which case obviously he would be doubtful about what his future would involve, no?

Surely, if it were the second way he would not have simply said, “I’m just a patsy,” but said a few more words to implicate the organising culprits.**

Petra, I’ve given some thought about like situations, since 2005, when I was stunned to hear Nancy Pelosi tell a gaggle of reporters in D.C. “Although we are not challenging in any way the results of this Election…”

I was shocked: “What’s not to challenge, Nancy? It was a tital charade, we lost because we were punked by crimes?”

I was amazed. Were they blackmailing her? Had they kidnapped her favorite pet, with a gun to its head?

Why not challenge? So I came up with many variations on a theme.

There could have been all kinds of ressons LHO made that comment. For one, he could have been punked, but concerned what they’d do to his family if he spilled his guts. People will weigh something like that, even to the extent of letting themselved be sacrificed. So he would divulge that hed been set up, as at least some disclosure as a protective ploy, yet knowing that if he went further “they” would also go much further. Nolan says that there is actually much evidence that LHO admired JFK and had been the one to call in anonymously the plot to kill JFK a few weeks or months before in Chicago.

Also, most operatives work on strictly a need-to-know basis and he was following through when he found it had gotten more off the tracks. He’d reveal the patsy part to create separation betweeen his profile and that of the more criminal perps, but only go so far to a) buy time, b) create some insulation for his family c) buy time while he thought of a plan B, d) put the bigger perps on notice that if they didnt have his back, he could really flush them etc etc

I’m fading here fast. Ciao!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 19, 2020 1:47 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Psyop principle, John:
 
Do what you want for real, fake the rest.
 
Thus, 9/11: buildings came down – planes faked, death and injury staged.
 
Wanted: JFK killed.
 
Not wanted: Oswald killed … if there’s any seeming evidence that, in fact, Oswald was killed or was wanted killed is it really “evidence” or propaganda? I believed there was evidence that people were targeted in the Twin Towers and the Pentagon – notably from Jeremy Rys’s brilliant propaganda film, 9/11 Conspiracy Solved: Names, Connections, & Details Exposed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fp5kaVYhk. I also believed there was molten metal at Ground Zero for a number of years until I realised that that too was propaganda.
 
We KNOW 100% that there were at least two takes of Oswald’s shooting. If he were really killed then either the final take was for real or he was killed by another method. Really? It’s like speculating that the 265 allegedly killed on 9/11 in the fake plane crashes were killed some other way … and yes I have to admit it did cross my mind. You speak of “evidence” of this and that but how do you know that what seems to be evidence isn’t, in fact, propaganda? How do you know that what you believe to be evidence relating to Oswald isn’t just propaganda to make people believe he was killed similar to the propaganda I allude to above with regard to 9/11 which I believed was evidence … until I was alerted to the truth.
 
As far as I can tell, John, you have no clear evidence (or reason or logic) to support the killing of Oswald and you use the word “could” a reasonable amount. “Could” statements mean little (at least against a well-supported argument) as far as I’m concerned unless there is some nugget of evidence we can start with. I cannot see any nugget of evidence that indicates Oswald was killed but I can see evidence, reason and logic that says he wasn’t.
 
I can easily imagine that all (or at least some) of the alleged deaths surrounding JFK’s assassination were of the same ilk as Oswald’s (ie faked), however, I haven’t studied them at all and I certainly wouldn’t make the claim, just sayin’ it wouldn’t surprise me.
 
I certainly won’t go as far as Miles Mathis and say that the assassination of JFK itself was faked … but, truly, nothing would surprise me … and I guess I really should look at Miles’ case for it better. The idea that that was faked though is really quite difficult to come to terms with. I have to say there do seem to be anomalies in the photographs and we have to wonder about the missing frames in the Zapruder film – very reminiscent of the Pentagon footage, no?
http://mileswmathis.com/barindex2.pdf
 
John, please answer this question:
Do you accept that there is no still in the SHOT ON LIVE TV video that matches the famous photo and thus at least two takes of the alleged shooting must have been taken?
If you don’t, please say why. If you do accept it then how likely do you think Oswald really was killed and, if so, why and how do you suggest he was killed?
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/lho-shot-tvphoto-comparison.html

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 5:25 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I can’t respond in entirety right now (and after 56+ years of CIA micro-managed obfuscation, not necessary) but for starters, I’ll say that I really agree with all your principles 100%+

In particular, the refrain: “nothing would surprise me.”

(And please add to that the most valuable lens of my personal store: “Nothing is ever what it appears to be.” Or, nothing but the holiest. And accept no substitutes, for that!)

That too may seem unnecessary, or “appear to be”, but clearly it is not –given the near universal tendency of almost everyone to not challenge very much at all (at least initially) of this bovine manure that is readily and steadily chucked at us from well-funded sources, it really IS necessary, and salubrious, and “hygienic”, to challenge ALL the “stories” –early and often (i.e., “instantly and incessantly”)– and to stay after people to do so, for “as long as it takes”. That last item is especially vital, since the High Cabal has had a clear Game Plan for the Home Team that “money is no object” in their suppression of truth and evidence et al. “in toto” when it comes to JFK. In toto encompasses not just the physical assassination, but ongoing any possible or feasible character assassination they can muster 24/7/365. I also note many many other psyop techniques they bring to bear to discourage our “revisionism”.

All of which argues that we should always take heart and efforts to ramp up our scrutiny, of it all, echoing what was a classic and charming refrain of that Bostonian himself, “with vim and vigor”.

( I’m not sure that I have heard either word used since his utterances, but their spirit, and his, certainly still apply, in all the best of their epic American nobility. Yes, we have had at least a little! Here.)

I’ll have to address your valuable points a little later when I can afford to give them attention that they deserve.

Just sayin’

Just rememberin’

(His birthday was May 29, and I choose always to mark that as my “early voting” for Memorial Day, as it always crowds our national one. –Also the birthday of his fellow impassioned Catholic, GK Chesterton, KC*SG, so another “memo” of the Eternal Flame that illuminates their graves. I’ll stop there, if I’m any more observant I may draw comparisons to Jack’s namesake among The Lone Gunmen of X Files, John Fitzgerald Byers.)

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 20, 2020 4:18 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Whatever future other things you wish to say let’s just establish a simple fact, John. There were at least two takes of Oswald’s shooting, OK?
 
In my previous comment I mentioned the psyop principle of only doing what is wanted for real and faking the rest. But then there’s another very important psyop principle that I have also mentioned:
 
They always TELL us.
 
So not only can we determine that there were at least two takes of Oswald’s shooting, the two takes are made very, very clear! The people are positioned differently around Oswald in both the “live” shooting and the photograph. Not only can no still be matched against the photo, no still can be remotely matched. Please examine the photo against the stills and give your opinion.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/lho-shot-tvphoto-comparison.html
 
Please just answer: do you agree there were at least two takes of Oswald’s shooting which strongly suggests Oswald wasn’t killed?
 
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 20, 2020 5:52 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I certainly agree with those two principles, and its paramount to keep them in the forefront.

Those stills are etched indelibly on my memory from long ago, and I also was witness to the event live on TV, not a refreshing memory!

Although I want to oblige you with a solid answer about the discrepancies, I haven’t studied the “evidence” yet enough. (It’s rash of me if I said I knew this to be pristine stuff!) The reason I haven’t studied it too deep in 50+ years, when I have read so much about this, simply put is that I don’t think all the Oswald data is very important, though it interests me, for sure. Other than the fact he has been ultimately identified as an Intel operative, his part, or lack, in the murder is peripheral.

I’m interested in all the OTHER CIA involvement on 11.22.63.

If it’s any worth, I will say this much: the stills you present (and I have no way of judging their authenticity) look very stagey. It looks like what they call in TV Show Biz “dramatic re-enactments.”

The gestures and expressions on faces look forced and not genuine.

Ill have to postpone my 2¢ til later.

From what you show, it seems they were two separate events!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 20, 2020 9:52 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

John, you’re making it so much more complicated that it needs to be. I took the stills from the video (linked to on the webpage) from the CNN YouTube channel – thus I think we can safely say that this is the “genuine” video of the LIVE SHOOTING ON TV although, of course, it’s faked. The video is 58 seconds long and the shooting starts at about 20 seconds in. It is a tiny bit of footage that is easily compared against the famous photo – no doubt that that is the “genuine” famous photo … except obviously faked too.
 
CNN 58 second video



 
As I keep sayin’, over and over and over and over, John, they TELL us so there is no doubt whatsoever that no still matches the photo. No serious study is required. There is no way at all to match photo against any still. None at all. No serious study required. It is in-your-face like the Emperor’s New Clothes.
 
There were at least two takes of the Oswald shooting. The evidence is incontrovertible and little study is required to determine this in-your-face fact. As this fact is incontrovertible then the only question remaining is did they kill Oswald regardless of the fact that they staged the shootings? I’d say no.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 20, 2020 9:53 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

To be precise re photo. The photo isn’t faked (as far as I can tell) but the shooting is staged.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 20, 2020 11:22 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Just to add, John. Oswald is very important in my book because if his shooting was staged that is clear evidence that he really was a patsy – he’s like WTC-7. Just as Graeme MacQueen says about the destruction of WTC-7, “There’s no room in the official story for controlled demolition,” there is no room in the official story for the staged shooting of Oswald.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 7:21 PM

Heinz Kissinger is the Missing Link between the Nazi ying and the yang that shall remain nameless.
 
Remember that George W. Bush though Heinz would be a safe pair of hands to manage the non-inquiry into the Sept. 11 attacks. Although Heinz never got the job because of the howls of popular outrage, George Bush successfully took a conspiracy theory and made it plain old conspiracy.
 

Jpc
Jpc
Jun 15, 2020 5:51 PM

Brinkley would like to keep his job.
Dylan can say what he wants to.
Brinkley can’t write what he wants to.
Always go for the simplest reason.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 5:42 PM

The “You Could Not Make It Up” department has a new entry. The National Institute of Standards and Technology brought you the Magic Buildings Theory to UnExplain how three steel-framed buildings collapsed from fire in quick succession on Sept 11th, 2001 – for the first time ever!
 
Now, in its own words: “A fascinating explanation of how the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) created digital imagery of the bullet evidence in the assassination of JFK.” https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2019/12/kennedy-assassination-bullets-preserved-digital-form

Almondson
Almondson
Jun 15, 2020 1:47 PM

That’s all well and good but I am not aware of any historical examples of a truly humane or wise king – among the English speaking nations at least… Kings will generally turn against humanity sooner or later, and every US president has been little more than a muppet. The people who own the Federal Reserve are the people who get to put the Emperor POTUS on his throne and I doubt this was any different in JFK’s time.
 
 
And then there is the messianic fantasy, a hard one to shake off. The aforementioned ghouls in the US were very busy with the psy-ops in the 50s and 60s and they love to set up messiah figures, and then sacrifice them for the spectacle – you have to admit that was some incredible TV.
 
JFK was propped up as a messiah figure and has become the symbol for patriotic Americans who want very much to believe that their nation is great, exceptional even, and that the “real ” American dream is good and wholesome. The historical reality is that America is a criminal project- it was born out of invasion, genocide, land and resource theft, and slavery, and is forever cursed and haunted by the ghosts of its victims. American culture is cowboy settler culture and has been so from the start- JFK was not going to change that even if he wanted to. Dylan is irrelevant indeed.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jun 15, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  Almondson

I’d say the problem for JFK and his brother, Bobby, was that they propped themselves up.They didn’t need anyone to pull their strings.They cut their strings and moved according to their rules. Naively, they underestimated the amount of power the CIA had grasped and the amount of powerful contacts the CIA had.If JFK appears, in hindsight, as a messiah figure,It’s more than likely that the Hell that has developed since his slaughter would suggest he could have been one.
 
JFK wanted to reduce the role of the CIA to the gathering of intelligence only, which was what they were supposed to be in the first place and still are supposed to be.The CIA saw the profits that could be made through wars and genocide and maintaining conflict around the world.JFK saw the futility in the sending away overseas of thousands of troops to, in many cases, inevitable death.JFK saw that Israel were less willing to negotiate over nuclear disarmament than even Russia had been in 1962.He voiced his distrust of them in corridors he believed were sealed and parochial.Since his death, every president has danced to the Israeli tune do so to this day .The enemy of Israel is the enemy of America.No debate- it’s a given. The President will refer to their ‘strong allies’ etc. That’s lip service and general bullshit.The tail has been wagging a very a dangerous dog in various places in the world where Israel want their enemies burned.Disagree but do it silently or you’ll be called an anti semitic holocaust denier.JFK was trying to prevent this scenario.And then JFK was gone.
 
”JFK was not going to change that even if he wanted to. Dylan is irrelevant indeed.”
 
The point is, he died trying.His brother could have hid in a bunker after that but he also died trying on his dead brother’s behalf and he too was slaughtered.That makes Dylan and his attempt to refuse to let the truth be buried any deeper more than relevant as a complete moronic egotistical halfwit tries to cause global chaos using a twitter account and warning the world not to ”mess with America”.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 12:19 AM
Reply to  Almondson

Don’t forget the pirates. Sure, cowboy culture and its oilmen are huge.

But the power structure was founded by sons of the pirates. Among many, $kull & Bones: Russell and Taft, villainous buccaneers of the Opium Wars.

It’s dominant.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 3:28 AM
Reply to  Almondson

This comment is another way of deflecting focus away from the real point of JFK, and so much energy spent by “us” on the assassinations. The deflectors are always pretending this is about JFK when our real focus is niw, and has always been on the assassination and what it did to his followers and the durection of the country, only a small anount of that concerning JFK. This is true of all CIA psyop projects: try to make a main point and the provocateurs will try to redirect it to an unimportant point.

JFK if he were alive (and he is, only Elsewhere) I am SURE would be the first to say his historical life, at least, was relatively unimportant, and that all this isn’t about him, but about US .

AS he himself said stirringly, “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”

That’s what HE valiantly strove to do, now it’s still our turn.

(Of course, when he said that, January 20, 1961, this was still recognizably a country, before that day 3 years later, when it was completely heisted and turned merely into that business fiction/corporate cesspool we now know, or should, as USA Inc.)

polistra
polistra
Jun 15, 2020 1:27 PM

Nobody expects proper questions from NYTimes types. The problem is that Dylan didn’t give hardass answers. If he had really meant what he wrote and sang, he’d be roaring obscenities at Brinkley. Instead, he gave vague druggy non-answers, thus completely negating and surrendering his message. (I didn’t think he had a message in the first place, so I’m not really surprised.)
 
It’s like Moses laying down the Ten Commandments, then giving an interview where he says “Oh, I was just sort of halfway musing about existence. Your mileage may vary.”

White Horse Mountain
White Horse Mountain
Jun 15, 2020 1:06 PM

More like Dylan is playing an assist to the Left as the layers of infiltration of all of our public institutions bear fruit in this bitter season. Was he killed by the alphabets or another group who wanted to keep aquiring the weapon for the end of the world. The writer pretends to destroy the historian when in fact he only offers another form of subterfuge to cover the real crime that a messianic cult gunned him down.

Dylan , the historian, and the writer are all cut from same stinking filthy cloth. To hell with Dylan.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 12:57 PM

When you look into a kaleidoscope, your eye is taken by the colorful patterns. You don’t notice the mirrors. They tilt towards each so that the object is always symmetrical, at least on one side. Looking real but ever changing.
 
Coherent enough that your eyes can follow, it never becomes a mere jumble of images. The brain looks for patterns to make sense of the world. The kaleidoscope provides them. The illusion of order is satisfying.
 
The Guardian will tell you that Candy Crush is all about dopamine and the joyous hint of sweetness. That it rations success leaving you wanting more. What The Gordian skates past, Steve Sharman, a PhD student in psychology, observes: that it provides an illusion of control.
 
The Zapruder film works the same way. After hiding it for decades, TPTB realized it could could become part of the game as people struggled to make sense of the missing and rearranged frames. What viewers don’t know is that the Zapruder film is almost certainly a compilation of two, perhaps three, different films shot from slightly different angles and it can never make sense.
 
But go on! Have a go!
 
 

T Brites
T Brites
Jun 15, 2020 12:16 PM

Any jester, elected by the sheeple, that tries to undermine or change the MAIN SYSTEM of the Secular Ruling Families will be killed like a dog.
 
We persist in playing this moronic game called democracy/voting… Good luck with that!

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 11:45 AM

Some people involved in the visit of JFK to Dallas are largely ignored: The Russians! No, not those Russians. Not the bumbling half-Ukrainian Khrushchev or the teachers and soldiers sweltering down in Cuba.
 
You probably think Texas is run by a bunch of right-wing, Stetson-wearing, gun-toting WASPS. That’s what Hollywood and the media tells you. The powers that run the city of Dallas are not sitting out on a ranch. Even Larry Hagman once admitted the city was very happy to have its reputation massaged by the TV series that bore its name.
 
There is a tight-knit business community that dominates the town through Dallas Citizen’s Council, led by families like Schepps, who began by handling liqor distribution for the Bronfmans and, back in 1963, by PR/advertising mogul Sam Bloom. This group wrested control of JFK’s visit from the DNC by offering to pay the cost. It switched the location from the DNC’s choice of the Women’s Building, which had better security, to the Trade Mart, which required the journey via Dealey Plaza. It set up the route.
 
After the assassination, for the first time in American legal history the judge handed the arrangements for Oswald’s trial to a PR firm. Originally Oswald’s arraignment was going to be closed to the media. But PR man Sam Bloom pressured the city manager to tell the police that Oswald should be paraded in front of the press. Bloom was head of the same synagogue, Temple Emanu-el, that Jack Ruby attended.
 
https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1975/july/remembering-bloom/
 
If you read Gus Russo’s SuperMob (2006) or Robert I. Friedman’s Red Mafiya (2009) you will know that Hollywood does a great disservice by portraying mobsters as Italians and Irish and by ignoring arguably the country’s most distinguished mafia, what the NYT calls the Kosher Nostra.
 
Some of them were well-to-do from the outset. The Bronfmans had been on good terms with the tsarist government and always had a foot in legitimate business, like tobacco and livestock, which may be why they operated so smoothly out of the Crown colony, the Dominion of Canada. Sam Bronfman used the Italian mafia as his distribution. Moe Dalitz shipped the liquor through Detroit and Meyer Lansky ensured it stayed in the right hands, along with Benjamin “Bugs” Siegel and Arnold Rothstein, Charles “Lucky” Luciano and ‘Dutch Schultz’ aka Artur Flegenheimer.
 
In September 1963, Sam Bronfman acquired the Texas Pacific Coal and Oil Company, merging with Seagrams’ smaller Frankfort Oil Company and moving its HQ from Forth Worth to Dallas.
 
David Weisblat co-owned the Dal-Tex Building which hosted offices for Morty Freeman, a business partner of Abraham Zapruder. One of those offices was Dallas Uranium and Oil (DUO)… perhaps a dud because it seems to have been inactive, though it later changed its name to International Airlines (which was the name of a CIA front company) and later Communications Cybernetics.
 
This serves only to show how small is the business world – a small world with big players – but also how the trail is possibly muddied with the assistance of intelligence agencies from different countries.
 
We choose where to shine a light and what to ignore. If equal interest were applied to Jack Ruby, like the magnifying glass over Oswald, we’d get very different evidence. Not proof but evidence. It’s not helped by the fact that Arnon Milchan financed Oliver Stone’s JFK (1991). The Hollywood filter again. It seems all evidence is not created equal.
 
Sources: Uncovering the Hidden Bronfman, Bush, Cheney, Seagrams, Zapata, Brown & Root — Michael Collins Piper – JFK assassination & 1srael part 8 of 23 –Nxivm and the Origin of Bronfman Family Wealth
 

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 12:14 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Michael Collins Piper – JFK assassination & 1srael part 8 of 23, part 9 of 23
https://youtu.be/bB4ooaTpUN0 ; https://youtu.be/96ylaq5YCUI

Almondson
Almondson
Jun 15, 2020 12:57 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Hollywood is a vital part of the family.

Jpc
Jpc
Jun 15, 2020 6:24 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Wow!
Didn’t hear these details before!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 3:46 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

“the country’s most distinguished mafia, what the NYT calls the Kosher Nostra.”

That’s rich, literally, for someone like me who was raised around my Dad’s law firm in Beverly Hills, which was mostly Jewish back then. Most of my friends were Jewish, partly since they were who I met, but I also really appreciated much much of their culture, still do.

Unfortunately, many seem to equate that, one to one with the worst of Zionism, but I’ve also lived in several Little Italy’s, and the same profiling thing happens there.

But for the Bugsy and Lansky mob, Kosher Nostra is too apt. Thanks for that, surprised I hadn’t heard it before. Since I know a lot of yiddish.

Roger
Roger
Jun 15, 2020 10:19 AM

The JFK assassination research community has been all over this song for months, with good reason. It’s instructive for those who would question the official narrative about Covid-19 to go back to 1963 and see how a US president could have his head blown off in broad daylight and have an official response mobilize so quickly to offer a panacea to the public, a lone nut who only seemed to associate with spies, a left-winger utterly without motive who supposedly gunned down the Democratic president, and an explanation for the linchpin of the assassination be “the magic bullet”– that was a literal analogue for the top-down transmission of information in the discipline of communication studies.

Hugh O’Neill
Hugh O’Neill
Jun 15, 2020 11:37 AM
Reply to  Roger

Well said, Roger. If you put it into topical medical terms, a true understanding of the JFK Coup d’Etat inoculates against all propaganda viruses. Let that be the real magic bullet.

Objective
Objective
Jun 15, 2020 9:58 AM

What an atrocious article, accusing Dylan of being a (‘good’) singer! I thought facts were sacred here?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jun 15, 2020 2:17 PM
Reply to  Objective

“What an atrocious article, accusing Dylan of being a (‘good’) singer!”

Dylan is not a sing-er. That’s just the closest microcephalics can get to a recognisable description of his talents. Closer is “trou-ba-dour”, a term originally applied to the composers and performers of Occitan lyrics that later grew to encompass a far wider geographic, contextual and stylistic range, containing–so to speak–multitudes. Unfortunately “trou-ba-dour” is a syllable too far for the “sing-er” cohort.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 3:57 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

St. Francis of Assisi, whose brief life was parallel to that too brief era of the Troubadours and Jongleurs de Dieu, made a bold ballad with his own words, “I am the troubadour of a newer and nobler romance.”

He really was the Dylan of his day, more so, writing the first true poem that has endured in Italian, “Canticle of the Sun.”

He was Dante’s inspiration for Italian meters, evidenced that that poet was laid in his tomb in the Franciscan habit.

5 dancing shlomos
5 dancing shlomos
Jun 20, 2020 4:43 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Plagiarist plus stringer of obscure lines found in dusty library books
hoping his fans will give deep meanings.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 15, 2020 2:32 PM
Reply to  Objective

To quote Florence Foster Jenkins, “People may say I couldn’t sing, but no one can ever say I didn’t sing.”

Objective
Objective
Jun 15, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Would you call the screech of a strangled cat singing?

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 15, 2020 7:09 PM
Reply to  Objective

Doesn’t sound like that at all to me Objective but then again you need to be Subjective.

Mishko
Mishko
Jun 15, 2020 7:40 AM

NLP. Or, as Chris Knowles from the Secret Sun blog would have it,
“The Never Ending Ritual”. A wise man, a priest, an expert that expertly wields dogma
and our singular perspective on it, tells us how it is. Lays down the law.
No fire and brimstone, no punishment, just everlasting purgatory now and hereafter.
 
Being a total cunt is what is called for, in so many ways.
 

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jun 15, 2020 7:36 AM

Thanks for your efforts Ed, but, it is a complete waste of time – and your brain cells, to even bother with any mainstream media full stop.
They are there to dilute, divert, obfuscate and censor. They are certainly not there to speak truth to power, if it is likely to genuinely challenge the status quo. On that note, take these three examples: Gary Webb, John Pilger and Seymour Hersh.
Ian Craig Roberts has used a term for these ‘journalists’ for years, which is very apt: Presstitutes.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Jun 15, 2020 9:48 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah, I hope all is well with you. I thought Seymour Hersh to be quite decent… John Pilger had some good words too, I am not aware of Gary Webb, I will look him up, thank you.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jun 15, 2020 11:16 AM
Reply to  Daniel Spaniel

Gary Webb was investigating Iran Contra and the role of the CIA. He was basically blacklisted by the revolting MSM, and was hounded so much he ended up committing suicide. I did a quick search on him earlier, and the very second search result was a vile hitpeice by the Washington Post.
The moral bankruptcy of the media almost knows no bounds.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Jun 15, 2020 11:49 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Are you sure he committed suicide?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jun 15, 2020 12:25 PM
Reply to  Daniel Spaniel

I wish John Ervin was still awake, he would probably know the real answer (he has a lot of knowledge and insight into American politics and the CIA).
Next time you see him comment here, ask him about Gary Webb…. but ‘officially’ it was deemed suicide.

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 3:09 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

He committed suicide in Sacramento with Two shots to the head…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 4:06 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I just did, just upthread, before I read this quiz. Lol

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 4:25 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Wikipedia has this, which is coy but st least throws some light (may I note that many coroners go with the “simplest” explanation, as happened with Robin Williams, not too far from Gary Webb, although ROBIN WILLIAMS WAS CREMATED THE NEXT DAY AND ONLY .00001% ANY MEDIA CARRIED that tidbit, at the time anyway. I talked to an actual coroner 2 years later, “Robin Williams: suicide or homicide? It can’t be both.” He waited a long time, then said, “We just don’t know.”

Which is fudge, but better than the Marin County Coroner’s office, whom I called.)

DEATH:

Webb was found dead in his Carmichael home on December 10, 2004, with two gunshot wounds to the head. His death was ruled a suicide by the Sacramento County coroner’s office.[68] After a local paper reported that he had died from multiple gunshots, the coroner’s office received so many calls asking about Webb’s death that Sacramento County Coroner Robert Lyons issued a statement confirming Webb had died by suicide.[69] When asked by local reporters about the possibility of two gunshots being a suicide, Lyons replied: “It’s unusual in a suicide case to have two shots, but it has been done in the past, and it is in fact a distinct possibility.” [LOL😅] News coverage noted that there were widespread rumors on the Internet at the time that Webb had been killed as retribution for his “Dark Alliance” series, published eight years before. Webb’s ex-wife Susan Bell told reporters that she believed Webb had died by suicide.[69] “The way he was acting it would be hard for me to believe it was anything but suicide,” she said. According to Bell, Webb had been unhappy for some time over his inability to get a job at another major newspaper. He had sold his house the week before his death because he was unable to afford the mortgage…..END EXCERPT

[Susan Schneider said much the same thing as Robin’s eulogy: “He succumbed to the terrorist in his brain.

Say WHAT?

As did Hunter S. Thompson’s widow, not too long after.

And, for the coup de grace, everybody in LA who knows anything knows my old man’s death was a contract killing, but it’s reported as “undisclosed causes” and well, sort of a suicide, both.

Talk about doublethink!

I think all that context should shed some light.]

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 5:26 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

‘Webb’s ex-wife Susan Bell told reporters that she believed Webb had died by suicide.[69] “The way he
was acting it would be hard for me to believe it was anything but suicide,” she said.’

She said.

Bizarre comment, sounds like she’s reading a prepared statement or a script.

How come he couldn’t be acting weird AND have people trying to kill him, simultaneously?

Well, obviously. It’s just a laughable comment.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 4:04 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Suicide? My father died like Webb, with a gun in his hand, but I found out 18 years later LAPD had it as an open case, which they never bothered to share with me (nor did I ask).

Both Webb and the Old Man were clearly suicided, a favorite hobby of CIA and other Mobs.

GARY WEBB HAD TWO BULLETS IN HIS HEAD.

If you dig up that evidence, you’ll find his “suicide” is not as credible as the Magic Bullet trajectory.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jun 16, 2020 4:32 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Thank you for the answer John. I knew who Gary Webb was, and who he was investigating, but didn’t really dig deep into his “suicide”.
I didn’t know about the 2 bullets, but perhaps my naivety is showing in regards to just how monstrous the CIA is, and to what lengths they will go too.
And this despite me being in a Central American Solidarity Group in the 1980s and early 90s (Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, the death squads, the massacres, mass murderers like Rios Montt, etc)
I think I saw you describe them as America’s Gestapo a few weeks ago.
I hope your week goes well, and you avoid anymore choreographed protests. Almost had a vision of them complete with marching girls and pom poms!
And the puppet masters pulling the strings are probably having a good laugh at all the chaos they’ve helped unfurl.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:12 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

The Pro-Test choreography was almost too much to bear. I couldn’t believe this big Hollywood production would hit the streets with such exponential insincerity preening up and down the blocks as sincerity. It looked like a Vegas number.

I actually got a queasy stomach for days from it, Gary. It was pretty awful.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:14 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Gezzah: its late.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jun 16, 2020 6:26 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Was going to reply an hour ago, then had a phone call and got sidetracked. Much appreciate all this info, and your replies.
And yes, I believe Robin Williams was murdered. He knew too much about what was occurring in that ‘famous place’ where ‘dreams’ are made. And nightmares.
A lot of evil going on just behind the curtains, so to speak.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 5:17 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

A great concertmaster I once sang, often, with as a chorister, Wm. Preucil, I found out to my shock had been fired for “sexual misconduct” from his position of 23 years, in late 2018 (a year and a half ago) as recorded by Wikpedia. I’m a big fan, so I scoured the web and could find no subsantive news about it but at two rags. Guess who?

THREE hit pieces in NYT

THREE hit pieces at WaPo.

ONLY.

For a violinist in Ohio, albeit distinguished. That’s it?

Aside from some really lowbrow sensationalist amateurish articles in Cleveland, nowhere else. NPR had some audio. So why privincial hit pieces, and nowhere else but the two biggest rags of the land? Not Chicago, not LA. An Not Boston, not SF.

See what I mean?

So, arguably the finest concertmaster in the world (at least for music) was felled by what looks like the rabid Mockingbird.

I look for him now, nothing, zero, since his termination.

Very similar to Plácido Domingo, but he still performs in Europe, just not U.S.

Maybe Bill fled to Europe in a mask. None of the allegations were confronted thru a court process….

But the news blackout is significant.

Sirhan had a non fatal throat wound last August, and similar blackout since. Nothing?

Media is a runaway train now. I told people this would happen in 2005 when the FCC voted 3-2 to raise media ownership caps to 40%.

Ridiculous. And deadly.

Hugh O'Neill
Hugh O'Neill
Jun 15, 2020 2:48 AM

Bravo, Ed. Once more, into the breach. It is tiresome having to constantly refight these same battles – and against such dullards (they are in plentiful supply). What is it with these Brinkleys? Playing Brinkleyman-ship with the truth?
I knew I had written a review on a Brinkley JFK book, but it turns out it was Alan Brinkley (related?). For what it’s worth: https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/0805083499/ref=acr_dp_hist_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=two_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
Keep up the great fight. Despite their apparent ubiquity, I suspect that most of us know the truth about the CIA’s continued murders of the Kennedys. Rise like lions after slumber, Ye are many, they are few.

johny conspiranoid
johny conspiranoid
Jun 15, 2020 9:01 AM
Reply to  Hugh O'Neill

“. Rise like lions after slumber, Ye are many, they are few.”
Controlling the lions means controlling how they expect each other to behave.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Jun 15, 2020 9:50 AM

What Jam album was that quote on?

Hugh O’Neill
Hugh O’Neill
Jun 15, 2020 11:44 AM

You are herding my felines🙂. I only used the line as roaring endorsement by way of reminding people that real power rests with us, the majority. If only we could wake from our slumber…

jeremy
jeremy
Jun 15, 2020 2:21 AM

Bob Dylan, the last of a dying breed — a liberal who exposes corruption and tries to keep the unruly state in check. A magnificent song for anyone who has not heard it.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 5:09 AM
Reply to  jeremy

What is Zimmerman up to, pimping out to IBM with all these big “Watson” ads, not Sherlock’s Watson, but named after Thomas Watson, early heavy hitter for International Business Machines that made the punch cards for the 3rd Reich, when a #6 was given only to Jews and meant death.

I never trusted Bob, tho’ able as he is, too many lucrative contracts with the big boys of mass music. Like Zappa didn’t trust the Beatles for the same thing.

gordon
gordon
Jun 15, 2020 2:07 AM

the stone movie was produced by arnon milchan a mossad agent who stole nuclear technology from the usa
 
christopher bollyn has a lot to say on arnan milchan who also producd a movie in the 1980s called the medusa touch with a scene with a jet crashing into a new york sky scraper
 
 
an interesting angle
 
 
Michael Collins Piper – JFK assassination & 1srael Part 1 
 

Watt Soever
Watt Soever
Jun 15, 2020 12:03 PM
Reply to  gordon

Thank you Gordon, I was about to mention both the Milchan/Stone movie dubious connections, and MCP’s fascinating book – then saw your comment. Definitely interesting angles to explore!

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 12:10 PM
Reply to  gordon

Thanks Gordon. I’d seen many of MCP’s presentations but not heard his radio show. I drew on part 8 of 23 for another post.

BDBinc
BDBinc
Jun 15, 2020 1:57 AM

In response to article the quote from arsecookie (below) On Noam’s controlled opposition is fitting.
1) Pretend there is a virus and a new disease then just allow debate but only on the fasle fatality figures.
Distract them and introduce with new theories(in the allowable narratives) when they become bored.
The narrive must make them believe utter lie that the psyop is based on 1) There is a deadly new virus & a new disease.
You like facts… there is not.

“Strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow
very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the
more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense
that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the
presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the
limits put on the range of the debate.”Noam Chomsky 1968 controlled opposition for the establishment.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 4:40 AM
Reply to  BDBinc

“Strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – ”

SPECTRUM OF ACCEPTABLE OPINION

Thats always been life here, strictly enforced. I like that, it should be emblazoned on a heraldic emblem, or something, since it’s just a little bit too long to have the right swag for a band’s name, like “System of a Down” but needs optimization, maybe as a bumper sticker.

USA is nothing if not a spectrum of such. I remember my first year in Paris and having access to their newspapers daily. “Finally! Something that remotely makes sense.”

Most people here (SoCal) tune you out if you draw them into actual live (real time) thinking process. It all has to be select choreographed excerpts from the army training manual that is daily life, generally nationwide, but a little more sunbleached here. A little more laidback.

But it still is way too much a controlled “loop” of standard memes, little that is original or nonconformist in a substantive way, unless it is the west coast whacked style that is known thru movies. But most of that is either aberrant or “false unusualness” — as Pasternak called it, when speaking to the Soviet Writers Union of what made art relevant and substantive.

Like “product”, be it good or bad, there is a pre-programmed limit to cultural contributions here, of every kind. The reductio ad absurdam that makes the provincial point, all too well, is from the cool film “Blues Brothers” where Belushi asks the waitress in the “kicker” (cowboy) bar, “What kind of music do you play here, ma’am?”

good ol’ girl: “Oh, we have both kinds! Country AND Western!”

An old joke, but illustrative: most of us here are so parochial we have no idea of just how narrow the range, or more importantly, its “feel”. Its spirit.

Since Southern California is one massive defense installation, from Lompoc to Coronado, about 300 miles along the coast, Navy, Marines, Army, Vadenberg Air Force Base with much missile and rocket testing, you can see how the horses are kept here with blinders, a form of martial law is ever the norm, however much is made of trivial liberties (which seem recently to have taken quite a hit anyway).

Northern California is a different story though, with what one observer described as “volcanic originality”. But the problem there was that CIA long ago identified the SF Bay Area as being one of the key centers of that precious Art Spirit thatbmust be found out and bridled at akl costs, as the source of escape from the recesses of Plato’s Cave, and descended with psyops en masse in the Sixties. I was blessed to have seen it several times as a child before then and what an amazing wondrous vibe it had in the ’50s, almost European, but distinct and vibrant, in a very healthy way. “The Paris of the West.” So Grand!

Enter CIA: mid-60s, with chronic endless wall to wall psyops, to control it and ruin as much as they could get their micro-managing hands on, faux beatnik, faux bohemian, faux hippie, and massive drugs everywhere. I had a friend there who had been born and lived there since the 30s, and he said by 1970 there had been so many burnouts influxed from unhappy homes and hangouts, all points of the compass, you had to pick your way to the Market Street subway among all the comatose druggies lining the pavements “zoned out”, just to get to work.

I mentioned it to a monk in the ’80s (it had a lovely Franciscan presence of old, since after all, Francesco is Patron and namesake of the City) and how after the acid-head burnouts had trashed so much, it had somehow gone to the other end of that “spectrum” and become an epicenter of “spiritual sickness”.

He murmured, “It drips.”

From the walls. Still does, I went up there a couple years ago for 10 days, first visit since ’84, and that brooding infernal quality still haunts most of it, saturating the walls, begging either to possess, or be exorcised. Many of the people there are quite wonderful, really much more free than elsewhere, it’s not them, but that sick spirit somehow hangs, haunts “pandemically”, to coin a phrase.

I had long had suspicions as to what caused it, then I got my confirmation a few years ago….

Richard Helms, Director of CIA after Dulles, spoke of the Agency’s (ab)use of the Nazi’s invention of LSD, he said something like, “We thought of it in much the same way we thought of the Bomb dropped on Japan, only instead to control the minds of the dissidents on the West Coast, and make them easier for us to control.”

BINGO. My answer finally to what went so hellaciously wrong there. (And why some study all these deep penetrations of our cultures by these vultures.)

May it one day live again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~£4£&$4$+my2¢

“The CIA doesn’t care what you do as long as it’s something they want you to do.”

“That Ol’ Black Magic” *spectrum*

___________________

PARAPHRASED 🍞:

’70s interviewer for an American mag, to the Russian poet Yevtushenko: “How do you now see the future direction of your latest poetry?

Yevgeny Yevtushenko: “I want to write poetry that is like a bread that can feed my people and nourish them in every way, deeply.”

American interviewer: “Yes, but when poetry is as common as bread, isn’t it also as bland?”

YEVTUSHENKO: “If you want me to explain why bread is so tasteless in your country, I’m not sure what to say.”

(And therein abides my thought for the day! this Feast of Corpus Christi, The Body and Blood.)

Tonight’s Gospel, the 1st Mass we’ve been allowed to attend here in Orange county since St. Patrick’s Day, had these words to tell us:

“I am the Bread from Heaven…”

🍞🍞 🍞

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Jun 15, 2020 7:29 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

The great orchestral conductor Bruno Walter retired to Southern California in the late ’50s and made his final recordings there. He loved the climate and topography. Judging by what you say, he would nowadays love the topography not at all.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 8:05 AM

Bruno Walter was a favorite of my piano prof, Arnold Juda, whose brother Jo was concertmaster of the Concertgebouw, and whom I met when he came out to play a concert with his brother at UCI. They had been the Juda Brothers Trio, with their young brother Gabriel on cello, until he went out one evening to get some bread for the family dinner in Amsterdam at the beginning of Nazi control there. Some soldiers stopped him to check his papers, saw the Jewish star, and shot him dead. His family got wind of it almost right away, moved into the attic which had been prepared for them by kind neighbors, and didn’t come out til eight years later at the end of the war.

I heard more than a few stories like that. Some worse. I didn’t know Walter was a neighbour, in California.
Thanks for that. (My personal favorite conductor by far was Otto Klemperer. My God, what a seraphic musician, and a complete nut, not that unusual a status for a genius. He was another refugee, here, who lived not far from my Mom in Hollywood in the 1930s. He disliked the meddlesome ladies of L.A. Phil so much that he would come out way late to the podium, in tails and stocking feet, to communicate his disdain while he conducted. His Beethoven 9 were the first I heard, daily, I was very lucky, and smitten by the sound. His Bach and Handel, Schubert, etc. are all unsurpassed, a triumph of EMI and Walter Legge’s recording genius in London, at “Abbey Road” –made a household word by Beatles . I met “by chance” (on a city bus after a TCO concert) a guy who wrote a very deep study of those Klemperer vinyls, Evan Eisenberg, in Cleveland, a book called “The Recording Angel” a tour de force of musicology.

Time to get back on topic, after this euphonious Interlude, even though music can never be off topic, by definition. All grace will eventually default to Music. Just ask Beethoven.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 15, 2020 9:16 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Ah Klemperer was a true maverick. Ever heard his Mahler 7? It lasts about 3 days.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 5:20 PM
Reply to  George Mc

My reply below at 3:49pm, mis-posted to Norcal

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Jun 16, 2020 12:49 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Thank you, John. Completely agree with you about Klemperer. He was my idol as a teenager and still is. Walter and Furtwaengler were great, but old Otto was even greater. What extraordinary luck that when he was regarded as ‘finished’, Walter Legge took him up and made all those marvellous EMI recordings. Incidentally, most were made in the ideal acoustic of Kingsway Hall rather than Abbey Road. I heard him ‘live’ just once. As you say, music is never off-topic, especially in Beethoven’s 250th birthday year, whose “sound” Klemperer got to perfection.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 5:50 AM

I meant Abbey Road as post-production of course, though I draw a blank on Kingsway, even though I had black and white photos of him conducting Beethoven’s 9th with chorus in background all over my walls. Abbey Road was where we ‘were told’ the finishing touches would be put in final stages, though we actualky recorded “Belshazzar’s Feast” with Sir Simon Rattle at Symphony Hall in Birmingham for EMI. The engineer would emerge periodically, with a red light on Rattle’s podium that would go on when we were live on tape, or software. (It was ’97)

There were 400 of us just in the chorus, nearly 200 instruments and 2 brass bands, and the chief technician cheered us with this, “Q: What’s the difference between a recording engineer and a toilet seat?

A: A toilet seat only has to deal with one a**hole at a time. But seriously, you people are great, you’ve been the exception to the rule.” Well, true or false, we enjoyed the comment, we’ll give him that much.

Yes, it was extraordinarily lucky we had Legge. His Klemperer discs, rather voluminous in number, are a world treasure. 9 out of 10 are my favorite interpretations of any of the repertoire. He makes Gluck sound like Bach.

I could rhapsodize here all night, but anymore would be INDULGENT. 🤔

Almondson
Almondson
Jun 15, 2020 1:16 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Acid was not invented by the Nazis as far as anyone knows. The CIA tried but it has failed as a mind control agent- it was an experiment that back-fired on everyone who clings to a materialistic view of life or a false spirituality / distorted metaphysics, such as Christianity. Acid is massively overrated because people are almost completely disconnected and living in a largely artificial world.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 4:36 PM
Reply to  Almondson

Though some facts true, a load of disinfo in the half-baked mix will make any cake fall flat.

Our biggest burden, cakes falling flatter than pancakes, everywhere these days!

Same issue, metaphorically, with masks and respirators. As one example, not much lost in translation there!

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 3:00 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Read “The Poisoner In Chief”…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 3:49 PM
Reply to  Norcal

Klemperer had such rhythmic greatness in execution, the actual tenpo is almost irrelevant. Having had the most success at performing Bach, I can say with conviction that playing it more slowly simply exposes the weak links of a performer technically, it is more challenging repertoire to execute capably, the architecture must be presented with exactitude, or the whole thing falls rather flat, like a bad cake. This is why you hear Bach more and more played frantically. It is actually easier to play it fast than slow. The haste hides all the cracks. You always get some people who complain about K’s length, but his mastery is shown in the jaw-dropping grandeur of the emotional impact of his performances, his musical concepts. Like his Handel’s “Messiah” in “For unto us is Born” the entry of the seraphic strings on “Wonderful, Counsellor” got my attention. I think I had an out of body experience. I chilled not for moments, but minutes. I cant even ponder it without being moved by the memory, let alone his musicianship. His “erbärme dich mein Gott” with the great Christa Ludwig, from St. Matthew’s Passion, shows why music surpasses speech, in religious events. (The last words for the Last Supper: “And then they sang hymns”.) Ludwig takes it elegy-slow and perfectly, infallibly sustained legato. One of the greatest documents in the history of recording. Second to none, if I may say. “And a sword will pierce your heart.” The solo violin accompaninent too, I believe Hugh Bean of Philhamonia, unsurpassed. (You can find it online, daring any doubters.)

I’ve kept an enlargement, displayed on whichever walls, of an awesome black and white photo of Otto K and Stravinsky, both rather young, sitting alone in the seats of an Austrian concert hall –Vienna? I think– about a century ago It was taken when Stravinsky had chosen Klemperer to premiere “Oedipus Rex”. Stravinsky, another of our Hollywood neighbours, later, of Klemperer. As was Schoenberg. (Refugees from Nazism, such as we currently are, except they weren’t in Lockdown.)

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 15, 2020 10:25 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

You’ve nailed it. I always thought it astonishing when comparing Klemperer’s slow Beethoven with Gardiner’s mad dash, it’s the Gardiner that sounds tedious. Once you adapt to the Klemperer approach, it sounds completely organic whilst the “historically informed” lot seem to be playing on automatic pilot.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 12:06 AM
Reply to  George Mc

To some Otto K will seem soporific, but that is because they haven’t really listened. I was fortunate to sing as a chorister in a very moving –and slow– rendering of Mahler’s Resurrection/2nd Symphony. The sense of time is almost glacier speed, the coda to end it unfurls so ponderously. Yet I’ve never been a part of much else that was that exciting, that exhilarating. But Mahler clearly had that in mind, as did Messaien in a Nazi POW camp when he wrote “Quartet for the End of Time” (Quattuor Pour La Fin du Temps) no doubt to remind the prisoners and guards, who loaned them instruments, that all creatures are passing, and there is a different starry time that rules above us.

Kind of like now.

The historically informed school is a scam, mostly. When we did the Bach B Minor Mass the Maestro said, “We are going to do Bach the old-fashioned way.” I loved him for that.

But then, he had just been appointed a few months before the new principal conductor of the Philharmonia, and in his twenties had known and worked with Klemperer, a prior Maestro.

I am sure it helped to get his head on straight about the right tempi by learning from the slo-mo Master among maestros!

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Jun 16, 2020 3:16 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

“The historically informed school is a scam.” Couldn’t agree more. As one critic said: invented in the 1980s by second-rate musicians who couldn’t compete with the established stars of the day.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:31 AM

But they’ve touted all that period piece stuff as de rigueur dogma and canonical in a gospel sense. I’ve had some pretty awkward conversations with people claiming it’s mandatory, though I think that gas fire will burn itself out.

Give me a great interpretation and its execution/performance and I don’t care what vintage the instruments.

I want music, not musico-political ideologues. If I’m low on political gas in my tank, there’s always Trump.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 16, 2020 8:32 AM

Norman Lebrecht had a cute name for the “historically informed” maestros – he called them “semi-conductors”!

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 16, 2020 8:42 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Ah now Messiaen was something else. He must be the polar opposite of Mahler i.e. the former’s rock-solid faith as opposed to the latter’s chronic doubt. Once in an interview, Messiaen made a typically blasé reference to how he would be able to travel to other planets after he died. I wish I was smoking whatever he was!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 17, 2020 9:12 PM
Reply to  George Mc

In ’75 I had to leave my treasured studio on the Left Bank, a literal stone’s throw on a bad arm from Notre Dame, at the corner of the rue Galande.

I found a garret rented to me by two very nice ancient French “Dames” at Ave. Wagram not far from Bois de Boulogne. Decislve in my choice was proximity to Restau-U, one of the chain of Sorbonne campus student restaurants that had as much lacklustre food you could eat for pennies, maybe a buck today. I stumbled in one day, half asleep, half a block away. My first trip there I spoke with a scholarly french youngster, not knowing where I was, and mentioned my passion for modern music, and Messaien’s name was the first, along with Stockhausen’s. After listening attentively, he said, “Eh, alors…” “I can introduce you to him, Im in his class of Musical Theory.” I thought he was kidding, you could have knocked me over with a feather. “Non, vraiment… Il est mon professeur, je le vois demain.” I passed, as I was overawed and fairly young in my studies. It seemed an excess, me and Olivier side by side…

Right about then I also had a student job as a courrier for the Paris “bureau” of Newsweek, an obvious CIA Mockingbird commodity though I really didn’t know what I was dealing with then (the head guy there was also named Scott Sullivan, incredible, clearly some kind of Intel, even to my young eyes, it shouted out loud from all of them). There were only about 5 office help, I hung out with them every day between runs, such as when taxied to Pierre Salinger’s flat with two cases of Dom Perignon from Fauchon every Friday afternoon! (Nor did I know that he had been a concert pianist very young, and had considered it as a pre-teen career, get out!) One of the young ladies, a very elegant young French woman with an equally elegant British school accent, and who spoke 6 other languages, handed me a recent issue when she heard me mention Stockhausen, “Jonathan just interviewed him, here it is.” I was shocked. Her father also was a soloist with l’Opera de Paris, and she said if I was really so interested, she could introduce me to ol’ Karlheinz.

I was gasping for air. I worshipped Stockhausen! They thought I was so over the top. Never could understand me. Well, they didn’t know just how star struck I was.

So I passed on both. At least 20 years later I got to talk to Boulez several times, having learned to fight off that fickle fever of fame. And Boulez was Messiaen’s chief protegé, 50 years before I met him. He turned atheist, in contrast to his mentor’s Catholic deep devotion. (As if labels really mean anything to such great composers.)

Deep, and way out! What a trip is the mind of Olivier Messiaen.

~~~~~~~~£4£&$$+€4€

I was deeply in a thrall later to Albeniz’ “Iberia” yet wondering if I had maybe overrated those pieces –I had gushed all over Alicia de Larrocha backstage at SMU McLaren Hall after she made me swoon to them, and she couldn’t stop giggling– since they seem to me at the summit of music, all time, but I don’t hear all that much about them, nor at that height either. I got the piano scores, and was beginning to learn them when I happened upon a CD version I had never known, with Yvonne Loriod. The liner notes were apparently written by her husband, and I thought, oh well, another off brand Amateur Hour, poor thing, had to get her husband to write the notes (it wasn’t a branded CD).

But I was more surprised, after reading the entry, “My wife’s recordings” that he went on to say, “These works are worthy of a place alongside the greatest keyboard works of Bach and Beethoven.”

I flipped through the pages, “Who is this guy. Some opinionated crank?”

The best was last, signed “Olivier Messaien” at the end of the liners….

Boulez studied piano with Loriod in his young days at the Paris Conservatory. (Maybe you know some of this. Bob Dylan he ain’t, but Stockhausen appreciated The Grateful Dead.)

Decades later, after I met Boulez in Cleveland, I asked Donald Rosenberg, chief music critic there, how he would assess Boulez, as we stood on the snowy steps of Severance Hall at Intermission of a TCO perfotmance.

Three words he spoke, “Greatest living musician.”

And so he was, most dearly departed.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 18, 2020 8:28 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I would have reacted with the same stupefied awe re: those composers. The only one I could have met was the Scots composer James Macmillan who turned up in Tower Records in Glasgow around 1990. He and I were the only people in the room (top floor) but I was too shy to approach him. Bearing in mind how appallingly reactionary he turned out, I don’t regret it now!
 
Re: Boulez, more than one perso has remarked on his impish sense of humour. It won Frank Zappa over. I think my favourite Boulez story is this one (as reported by Gerald McBurney in the Guardian):
 
“…I was escorting him [i.e. Boulez] to a restaurant. The rest of the company had moved swiftly, but he was walking slowly, tired after rehearsal. Someone had told me on no account to mention Messiaen. So I did, and he immediately laughed, stopped and looked at me like a schoolboy preparing a whoopee cushion for a grownup.

‘Ah, Messiaen, he is for me a big problem … [dramatic pause] The religion … [another pause, shrugged shoulders, and louder] The birds … [louder still, hands raised and in tones of pantomimic horror] Aand … my God … the ORGAN!’ There was no doubt which of these three shockers was the worst…” 
 
 

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Jun 16, 2020 3:19 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Totally agree. Much “historically informed” Beethoven performance emasculates and trivialises the music.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:35 AM

Though I did go to a Cleveland Orchestra concert where Beethoven 3 was on the bill as an historical re-enactment and it was pretty great to hear, but I’ll take the giants of our discourse here, instead.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 5:15 PM
Reply to  Norcal

You’re talking then about the real Dr. Strangelove, Sidney Gottlieb (german for: GodLove)? Mengele’s Yankee doppelganger? One of our chief culprits, as poisoner-in-chief? A horror story with legs?

I thought so.

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 5:34 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

You got it!

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 5:37 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

They set up shop in SF for distribution during the “flower power” movement…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 6:06 PM
Reply to  Norcal

That was the 2nd boot to drop, of the JFK assassination. First, they blow up a charismatic President, seeking to turn us to Peace, obliterating his brains to shreds –with no visibility of the culprits in their ghostly fashion– then after the broad spectrum of PTSD afflicts his supporters, people tending more toward genuine article than his adversaries, they wait a few years for the symptoms to kick in then launch Phase 2 (which is also what they’re calling this tableau of the Lockdown right as of now in Ca., and many places.)

They trot out Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey, and their bands, armie, of “Merry [psyops ‘R U.S.] Pranksters” for the biggest organized (and disorganzed) psychological assault in history. People don’t know, but I can assure them the Bay Area is still reverberating with all the fallout from that -spiritual, emotional, ontological- over a half century later. It could make a (good) “Ghostbusters” sequel. It messed up the whole world. Part of their strategy –a sort of corollary to shaming tactics and spook denialism– is to downplay all that, I’ve had more than one suspected agent use the words “it backfired” as a strategy.

Business as usual in Langley VA.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 6:45 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

The main point above, and many elsewheres, is that the assassinations were not really about the Kennedys, but they were, and our, about their supporters and sympathizers: all those who constitute the biggest threat to the usurpers. That is evidenced by the heinous, terroristic, and very brutal ways in which they were slaughtered.

Problem was, it rendered the vast array of the “collaterally damaged” victims as martyrs too, much like those at the foot of the Cross.

Truth be told, if such an assault has some ways of being taken positively, it has a deeply spiritualizing force for good at the deepest levels, like the Crucifixion.

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 7:38 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Most helpful, John Ervin, many thanks…

Calamity Jane
Calamity Jane
Jun 17, 2020 10:41 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

CIA-centric narrative. When all agencies make up one spy eye for the banking cabal.
http://templeton01436.blogspot.com/2017/03/proof-that-usa-is-controlled-by-foreign.html

Koba
Koba
Jun 15, 2020 7:32 AM
Reply to  BDBinc

Noam Chomsky is a shill and controlled opposition and is no match for Michael Parenti

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jun 15, 2020 1:27 AM

9/11 was bad enough, when I eventually realised in early 2003, that the Official US Government Story was impossible, because it broke all the most fundamental laws of physics..And yes I did go marching around london with over 1 million other people, trying to stop my Country going to war with Iraq…but it made no difference.

Sure I told all my colleagues at work, and I told my wife and friends. It didn’t do me any good..

In the instant I knew, at work, I felt as if I had been kicked very hard in the guts…

I instantly knew, that it was not some foreign culture, I knew very little about that had committed such evil – can’t blame Osama Bin Laden

It is us.

It blew my head off. It was my Anglo_American culture that had done this, but I knew we had been infiltrated.

What’s going on now is even worse, because they have refined the mind programming, and got all the media on their side, as if I am now in the USSR when I was born in 1953 or Stasi /Nazi East Germany in 1965.

I can’t quite bring myself to read much of “Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes ” It’s too heavy for me, and I grew up with Polish Kids in England, and we were great.

“Political ponerology is an interdisciplinary study of social issues primarily associated with Polish psychiatrist Andrzej Łobaczewski.[1] As a discipline it makes use of data from psychology, sociology, philosophy, and history to account for such phenomena as aggressive war, ethnic cleansing, genocide, and despotism.”

Tony

RobG
RobG
Jun 15, 2020 1:48 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Tony, I was about to go into one here in the comments section, but you beat me to it.
 
Dylan was well acquainted with Grace Slick…
 

Edwige
Edwige
Jun 15, 2020 8:57 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

“9/11 was bad enough”
 
Officer Tippit was shot at 1.16 according to the Warren Commission.(obfuscated by Wikipedia). 116 is of course 911 inverted.

BButifl
BButifl
Jun 14, 2020 11:48 PM

Fok Bob Dylan, Fok Him, Fok his music and Fok any one who belives in him.
57 years to make a statement about JFK. He is the ultimate limited hang out.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 15, 2020 12:22 AM
Reply to  BButifl

Old Mary Rotolo had him pegged. Oh yes she did.
 
“”Dylan said about his girlfriend Suze’s mother: “Mary, though, who worked as a translator for medical journals, wasn’t having it. Mary lived on the top floor of an apartment building on Sheridan Square and treated me like I had the clap. If she would have had her way, the cops would have locked me up. Suze’s mom was a small feisty woman-volatile with black eyes like twin coals that could burn a hole through you, was very protective. Always make you feel like you did something wrong. She thought I had a nameless way of life and would never be able to support anybody, but I think it went much deeper than that. I think I just came in at a bad time. She glared at me, cigarette in her mouth. She was always trying to goad me into some kind of argument. My presence was so displeasing to her, but it’s not like I’d caused any trouble in her life. It wasn’t me who was responsible for the loss of Suze’s father or anything. Once I said to her that I didn’t think she was being fair. She stared squarely into my eyes like she was staring at some distant, visible object and said to me, ‘Do me a favor, don’t think when I’m around.’ Suze would tell me later that she didn’t mean it. She did mean it, though. She did everything in her power to keep us apart, but we went on seeing each other anyway.”
 
There was not much love lost between Pete Seeger and Zimmerman either.
 
Even a fan like Jack Newfield recognized Zimmerman “embellished greatly” on his pre-Greenwich Village “music business history.”
 
“A USER”

RobG
RobG
Jun 15, 2020 1:54 AM
Reply to  BButifl

It sounds like you’re bored in Cheltenham this evening.
 
What’s the latest bit of childish nonsense you’re about to trot out for us?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 5:23 AM
Reply to  BButifl

Perhaps, but just when people like David Talbot (“Brothers” about JFK & RFK, and “The Devil’s Chessboard” about Dulles engineering “The Big Event” CIA lovely code word for 11/22/63) had been lamenting that with disappearance of many from that era it would let the interest in the assassinations be forgotten, water under the bridge, along comes Dylan to cap the growing resurgence in understanding how it was that our country got hijacked, and how all important it is to keep these issues ever central. So, at least there’s that. I’ll thank him for that.

BButifl
BButifl
Jun 15, 2020 6:17 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Apologies for my choice of words in my previous post and a sincere thank you for replying objectively.
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 14, 2020 10:54 PM

The article in this link gives needed context for NYT longtime historically sourced role in helping CIA with a garden variety assassination, this one in Vietnam. Early in the game, 1952:

https://www.hbrucefranklin.com/articles/the-quiet-americans-war-on-terror/

JOHN ERVIN: QUOTING THE ARTICLE BELOW AS IT APPEARED IN “THE NATION” 2003 AT THE TIME OF THE IRAQ INVASION, WHEN PUBLISHED AS A REVIEW OF “THE QUIET AMERICAN” FILM, STARRING MICHAEL CAINE, BASED ON THE NOVEL BY GRAHAM GREENE, WHO WROTE 40 YEARS AFTER THAT 1952 CARNAGE THAT IT WAS THE CLOSEST THING TO “PURE REPORTAGE” OF ANY OF HIS NOVELS.

RELEVANT HERE IS THE COLLABORATIVE PRESENCE AND WAR CRIMES OF THE NEW YORK TIMES AS IT WORKED HAND IN GLOVE WITH THE FLEDGLING C.I.A. TO SPREAD TERROR IN 1952 SAIGON, SOUTH VIETNAM. THE TIMES WERE ALREADY THEN A “MOCKINGBIRD” SUBSIDIARY, AND CLEARLY, EVER SINCE:

“By the Bombs’ Early Light; Or,
The Quiet American’s War on Terror
By H. Bruce Franklin
(Originally published in The Nation, February 3, 2003.
Copyright © 2003 H. Bruce Franklin; all rights reserved.)

In the new film version of The Quiet American, a photographer races into a plaza in downtown Saigon, rather puzzling jaded British reporter Thomas Fowler (Michael Caine). Moments later, a car bomb strews shattered bodies and vehicles around the plaza. We hear another bomb explode nearby. Then we see the supposedly innocent American, Alden Pyle (Brendan Fraser), ordering the photographer to focus on dead bodies and the most hideously wounded survivors.

Moviegoers familiar with Graham Greene’s novel may wonder why director Philip Noyce is taking such liberties with this crucial scene. Why insert a photographer? Isn’t adding a second bomb a bit of cinematic overkill? And where’s the novel’s dazed, confused Alden Pyle, stumbling with his impenetrable American innocence through the carnage he didn’t really intend to cause?

But this scene, like other twists in the film, actually moves deeper into what Greene discovered in the early 1950s about the figure he called the Quiet American–charmingly boyish, impregnably armored in ignorance, righteousness, and good intentions, dedicated to replicating America around the world, preaching democracy and spewing bombs in Vietnam. It also moves The Quiet American into the twenty-first century, with piercing relevance to the “War on Terror.”

“Reds’ Time Bombs Rip Saigon Center” blared a headline in The New York Times of January 10, 1952. Written by Tillman Durdin, a Times reporter in Saigon working in tight collaboration with the CIA, the story called the bombing “one of the most spectacular and destructive single incidents in the long history of revolutionary terrorism” carried out by “agents here of the Vietminh.” A blood-chilling photo of the carnage appeared as “Picture of the Week” in the January 28 LIFE magazine, with a caption that asked people to focus on the most gruesome results of this terrorism by the “Viet Minh Communists”: “The bomb blew the legs from under the man in the foreground and left him, bloody and dazed, propped up on the tile sidewalk.” The bombing certainly came at a convenient time for the warhawks, including LIFE, whose previous week’s lead editorial, “Indo-China Is in Danger,” was a near panicky call for major U.S. participation in the Vietnam war (which the French were still fighting, with U.S. assistance), because “It’s all one war, and our war, whether the front be in Europe, Korea, or Indo-China.”

Graham Greene, who was then wintering in Saigon, wondered how LIFE happened to have a photographer on the scene, as he explained in his 1980 memoir, Ways of Escape: “The Life photographer at the moment of the explosion was so well placed that he was able to take an astonishing and horrifying photograph which showed the body of a trishaw driver still upright after his legs had been blown off.” “This photograph was reproduced in an American propaganda magazine published in Manila over the caption ‘The work of Ho Chi Minh,’” Greene continued, despite the fact that General Trinh Minh Thé, a warlord masquerading as Vietnam’s savior from colonialism and communism, “had promptly claimed the bomb as his own.” “Who,” Greene pondered, “had supplied the material” to this “bandit”?

A few months after this bombing and a series of bicycle bombs set off later in January by Thé’s agents, Greene began writing his answer in The Quiet American. During the Vietnam War and its sequels, the novel became routinely labeled “prophetic.” But what Greene was trying to tell us half a century now seems to border on sedition, as our government implements the President’s declaration, “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” Indeed, The Quiet American has become so subversive that Miramax tried to deep-six its movie after 9/11 (it was originally set for a 2001 release), until Michael Caine forced a two-week run in December 2002 and a wider opening in early 2003. So now Greene’s exposé of the U.S. machinations for imperial war in Southeast Asia in the early 1950s reappears amid the machinations for imperial war in Southwest Asia and the Mideast.

When Greene, a veteran of British intelligence, used his contacts in French security services to investigate the Saigon bombings of January 1952, he discovered a U.S. campaign to create a “Third Force,” opposed to both Communism and colonialism and designed to evolve into a U.S.-backed “democracy” in Vietnam. Any resemblance to recent events in Afghanistan and Iraq is hardly coincidental. The hotbed of U.S. Third Force activities was the Economic Aid Mission, headed by someone French commanding General Jean De Lattre called “the most dangerous man in Indochina.” Greene himself had been ardently sermonized about the wonders of Third Force “democracy” by a boyish, enthusiastic member of the Economic Aid Mission, a likeable young man who, according to Greene, was the original model for Alden Pyle.

By the time The Quiet American was published in 1955, America’s Third Force democracy had actually been institutionalized in Saigon in the person of the brutal puppet dictator Ngo Dinh Diem, a former New Jersey resident who claimed to be the legitimate ruler of the entire country of Vietnam. (No government in either Saigon or Hanoi ever recognized the U.S. invention of two separate countries called “South Vietnam” and “North Vietnam.”) To prepare for Diem’s insertion into Vietnam, C.I.A. operative Colonel Edward Lansdale arrived on June 1, 1954, in the midst of the Geneva peace negotiations, to launch a systematic campaign of sabotage and terror in the north and to supply a military force for Diem to gain control of Saigon. Building on the C.I.A. contacts that Greene had earlier discovered, Lansdale employed terrorist warlord General Trinh Minh Thé to secure the city, an event prefigured in the movie by a scene of Thé marching with his troops into Saigon. Like the warlords of the Afghan “Northern Alliance,” Thé was paid by the C.I.A., and, like the gentlemen Washington is preparing to rule postwar Iraq, was called by his U.S. patrons a “dissident” and a “nationalist.”

Especially since Lansdale’s covert activities were revealed in his Top-Secret reports included in the Pentagon Papers, most commentators on the novel have assumed that he must have been the model for the Quiet American, something denied repeatedly by Greene. The debates about which particular U.S. agent was the primary model for the Quiet American miss the main point: Greene’s Quiet American is just one avatar of an archetypal American terrorist. For example, in the late 1980s, whenever I asked my “Vietnam and America” class whom they saw in their mind’s eye when they tried to picture Alden Pyle, a virtual chorus would respond “Oliver North.”

The movie incorporates elements of our Lansdales and Norths into its Alden Pyle. And it assumes that we may know what the novel’s audience–and even its author–could not have known: the results of their acts. The carnage in the plaza thus becomes a synecdoche for the millions of victims of the U.S. war in Southeast Asia and the many other millions slaughtered, crippled, impoverished, and terrorized by the subsequent U.S. covert and overt wars for “democracy” in Chile, Cuba, Angola, Grenada, El Salvador, Panama, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Somalia, and Iraq, to name a few.

Whether or not Greene wrote Lansdale into his novel, Lansdale wrote Greene into the next version of The Quiet American, the 1958 film directed by Joseph Mankiewicz. Just as the C.I.A. in 1952 had orchestrated terrorist bombings in Saigon to incite a U.S. war in Vietnam, the C.I.A. and several of its front organizations used the 1958 film to resurrect those bombings, blame the Communists once again, build support for Diem’s dictatorship, and savage Greene personally as the archetypal “intellectual” Communist dupe who menaced the democracy that America had built in Vietnam.

In March 1956, shortly after Mankiewicz bought the film rights to The Quiet American, Lansdale wrote to the director from his Saigon operations headquarters and, showing his skills as a former advertising executive, explained how to turn the novel into an assault on Greene and an advertisement for Diem. Although Lansdale acknowledged that Trinh Minh Thé had done the bombing and claimed credit for it in a radio broadcast, he assured Mankiewicz that no “more than one or two Vietnamese now alive know the real truth of the matter, and they certainly aren’t going to tell it to anyone,” so he should “just go ahead and let it be finally revealed that the Communists did it after all, even to faking the radio broadcast.”

Mankiewicz cast Audie Murphy, the most decorated U.S. soldier of World War II, as “The American” (he has no other name in the film), got one of Diem’s henchmen to organize the on-location shooting, dedicated the film to Diem, and arranged for the first screenings to be benefits for one of Diem’s main sponsors, the International Rescue Committee. “The American” is completely innocent and thoroughly heroic. In the car-bomb scene, it is not he but Fowler (Michael Redgrave) who is unmasked. The American arrives with medical equipment in a “United States Christian Mission” truck (the movie makes Murphy closely resemble Tom Dooley) to care for the wounded. When Fowler, who has been duped by the Communists, stands amid the carnage hysterically accusing him of involvement in the bombing, The American, fuming with righteous indignation, shouts, “For once in your life, why don’t you just shut up and help somebody?”

Later, The American tries one last time to convince Fowler of the righteous destiny of the democratic Third Force. “I met a very prominent Vietnamese living in exile in New Jersey,” he earnestly explains. “If all goes well, if Vietnam becomes an independent republic, this man will be its leader.” This was, of course, the man actually reigning in Saigon in 1958, five years before another covert U.S. plot arranged his murder.

The terrorist bombs, according to the 1958 movie, have been set off by the Communists so that they can trick Fowler into helping them murder both the American and his vision of Third Force democracy. “It was the idea that had to be murdered,” French police inspector Vigot tells Fowler. “To help assassinate the idea,” Vigot explains, the Communists needed someone “gifted in the use of words,” someone who would substitute “a work of fiction, an entertainment” for reality. As Fowler realizes how he has been used by the insidious Communists, he is reduced to a writhing, loathsome, and self-loathing stand-in for Graham Greene.

But now the tables are turned once more by the current film, which transforms that Lansdale-Mankiewicz fiction into a subtext, framing many scenes with similar composition while exposing the earlier film as a continuation of the 1952 U.S. terrorist conspiracy. Ironically, delaying the wide release of The Quiet American has added deeper layers of meaning, because in 2003 we understand even more about how terrorism can be used as a pretext for war, and who uses it.

H. Bruce Franklin is the author or editor of nineteen books on history and culture. He is presently the John Cotton Dana Professor of English and American Studies at Rutgers University, Newark.”

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 11:13 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

In the story about the State Dept bringing Fidel Castro to power (see below), former U.S. Ambassador Earl T. Smith talks about the role of the NYT in promoting Castro. Upon Smith’s appointment, the State Dept actually drafted in the NYT reporter Herbert Matthews to brief the incoming ambassador.
 
Matthews wrote numerous reports assuring the public that Castro was not a communist and setting the stage for his coming to power. In fact the NYT had promoted Castro since the Bogota uprising of 1948 when Castro was only 22.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Matthews
https://youtu.be/9FKjcr9Ytac?t=372
 

kevin
kevin
Jun 15, 2020 1:33 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Servando Gonzalez does a great job exploring this in his book Psychological Warfare.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 15, 2020 4:55 AM
Reply to  kevin

Thanks for the tip. It jolted my brain to remember the famous NYT lapse when Walter Duranty stunned his fellow journalists with his flat-out denials of the Bolshevik-induced famine of 1932-33 that followed the liquidation of the most skilled and energetic peasants. https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/history/item/4652-durantys-lethal-li
Liverpool-born Duranty’s Harrow and Cambridge education, and his friendship with Aleister Crowley, does me suspect he was working for British intelligence.

Koba
Koba
Jun 15, 2020 7:43 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

There was no bolshevik induced famine! You can’t pay the weather to be bad or to go away mark taugher has done great work debunking these lies that you repeat. Mark Taugher was a respected famine expert

Until he proved anti communists to be liars (which isn’t hard to do)

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 5:29 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

When you get downvotes for a richly informational article like that, and true, and accurate, and scholarly…

You know that night and too much truth has brought the trolls out of their holes in feculent and feckless force.

Norcal
Norcal
Jun 15, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Thank you John Ervin…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 6:55 PM
Reply to  Norcal

😇😇😱

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jun 14, 2020 10:48 PM

After a full reading of the article and a scan of the comments it prompted, I’ve decided to resist the temptation to throw my theory into the ring. The subject is Dylan’s interview and the reluctance of the interviewer to display any skill as an interviewer or ask any interesting questions.Needles to say, the CIA moved into CNN years ago.They didn’t leave.The CIA get in everywhere.They’re like the coronavirus/ covid 19. Except you can actually find and identify the CIA.And many of us were lucky enough to learn how to self- medicate years ago with an anti-bullshit vaccine.
 
Dylan has long been a cultural icon. Arguably the finest song writer of any time.And he’s remained consistent.He was counter culture in the 60s because he’s counter culture, not because he saw what was ‘trending’.That he’s still counter culture 60 years later is testimony to his credibility.His refusal to play nice is a mark of integrity.And using his fame and celebrity to raise awareness of the poison that’s run through the US Governmental veins since the death of Kennedy can’t be criticised by anyone who stands for truth.

The legacy of JFK is probably the most tragic and ironic aspect of the event.It was his death that prompted J E Hoover and L B Johnson to swing into action and construct the Warren Commission.The remit was simple : ”Find Oswald guilty at all and any costs- we’ll look after the rest”.Thus the commission proceeded to treat Oswald as the accused.Facts were edited to fit or removed because they couldn’t. A lot of observers doubted it all from there.As soon as Tippet, Oswald and Ruby were murdered in full public view too, it was looking like a simple slaughter had taken some dramatic unforeseen turns.Thus was born the term’ conspiracy theory’.You know the rest. Some suggest it was invented by the CIA for this very crime.I wouldn’t attribute that level of intellect to anyone working for them.But it was certainly them who were the first to see the potential of it as a weapon.The mainstream were soon instructed that anything questioning the official narrative was to be treated with contempt as were those espousing such.It was the perfect cover.It was OK to now point the finger at the conspiracy theorists with derision and call them as many names as possible.Try to humiliate them and make that a trend that the herd would be happy to join.They rarely challenge them to debate.They daren’t. If they could they would. Whereas anyone can call names.It’s about levels of understanding and the ability to think objectively.Conspiracy theorists can do it with ease.The finger -pointers struggle.Some call it cognitive dissonance.Maybe it is.I call it ignorance. That’s nearer the mark.
 
As Dylan says in a song peppered with vivid references to pop culture:
 
 ” Thousands were watching, no one saw a thing”.
 
 They did later.Once the dust was settled and the time for clear reflection was right many saw many things.And many things they saw looked very, very wrong.The findings of the corrupt commission confirmed their gut feeling.And, since that day, it has been the ‘daddy ‘ of all conspiracy theories.
 
The crime itself lends itself to outlandish speculation, naturally.But it also exposes the very high likelihood that the greatest democracy in the world had slaughtered their own president like a sacrificial pig after some very intricate planning over a long period of time.America was on course for two terms of Kennedy followed, in all likelihood, by another two terms of it via his younger brother.That would span more than a generation.That’s a long time to have a Dynasty that was trying to prevent wars and mafia control of America’s cities.
 
In the background Prescott Bush, former close friend and associate of Joe Kennedy had places his money on the wrong horse in Nixon.But that was a hiccup.He paid his ticket in with another go and by then, he had his Bush Dynasty ready to roll.We know the rest. 

Since then and until now, we see the US controlled media scoffing at the idea of a conspiracy and favouring the insane ‘truth’ that Oswald developed superpowers for the day.And endless documentaries that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars are carefully put together with the sole purpose of destroying the conspiracy theories.By the same people who claim that they mock and pour scorn on them all and that they are not worth a second thought.But they’re worth 60 years of hard work and big money trying to win the battle via the TV and Internet. How many ‘former CIA’ men are about that were there on the day. Whenever you see ‘former CIA’ on any video- just read ”paid shill”. You don’t receive permission to spill secrets just because you are retired.The official secrets are for life.But you can still get paid once you’re retired.
 
As a Brit i have no reason to feel ashamed of what happened to JFK. As a human being i have plenty.Rest in peace JF. And f**k you Lansky.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 6:23 PM
Reply to  Jura Calling

Tippett and Oswald were often seen, laidback having breakfast together months before the assassination at The Pig and Whistle diner in Dallas.

Why not, they were both CIA residing and working hand in glove in Dallas?

JoeC
JoeC
Jun 14, 2020 10:29 PM

Dylan accepting the Tom Paine award December 1963:

” So, I accept this reward – not reward, (Laughter) award in behalf of Phillip Luce who led the group to Cuba which all people should go down to Cuba. I don’t see why anybody can’t go to Cuba. I don’t see what’s going to hurt by going any place. I don’t know what’s going to hurt anybody’s eyes to see anything. On the other hand, Phillip is a friend of mine who went to Cuba. I’ll stand up and to get uncompromisable about it, which I have to be to be honest, I just got to be, as I got to admit that the man who shot President Kennedy, Lee Oswald, I don’t know exactly where –what he thought he was doing, but I got to admit honestly that I too – I saw some of myself in him. I don’t think it would have gone – I don’t think it could go that far. But I got to stand up and say I saw things that he felt, in me – not to go that far and shoot. (Boos and hisses) You can boo but booing’s got nothing to do with it. It’s a – I just a – I’ve got to tell you, man, it’s Bill of Rights is free speech and I just want to admit that I accept this Tom Paine Award in behalf of James Forman of the Students Non-Violent Coordinating Committee and on behalf of the people who went to Cuba. (Boos and Applause) ”

He’s come some way since 1963. From a lone nutter who he somehow identified with to an all out conspiracy theorist. We all evolve some way or another over time. Dylan is running out of that commodity like we all are. He was real young in 1963 when he received his “reward”. He’s an old man now. It’s got nothing to do with redemption.

Cesca
Cesca
Jun 14, 2020 10:26 PM

Wow! Think that’s as close to real anger as u can get Edward, totally justified too cos tho ppl really know, we still allowed them to pull off 9/11, 7/7 and all the horrors that ensued. Particularly the multi – level shit going on atm.
 
Just keep doing ur thing, loadsa love to you n yours xxxxxx
 

Inspector Morose
Inspector Morose
Jun 14, 2020 10:24 PM

Medieval Feudalism required a new system to cope with slowly increasing population.
We recognise as government.
6 billion people later – They need a need a new mechanism.
The World Economic Forum is not being shy about their intent – Feudal technocracy! – no one left behind!
 
There is a way out!
STOP the infection LIES!
&
Adopt a greenback value based currency in each country.
 
Not The Debt Based Central banking model that will enslave us all and our descendants in perpetuity.
 
We create value – banks create nothing!
In effect we create all money!
 
Defund the Technocratic globalists.
Bottom up Government, Not top down!

Ort
Ort
Jun 14, 2020 10:04 PM

What isn’t news is that Amerikan media-darling celebrity “historians” are almost always highly-overrated hacks. Remember Stephen Ambrose, the Serious Historian who pimped the “Greatest Generation” hype espoused by fellow infotainers Tom Hanks and Tom Brokaw? Eventually it was discovered that his work was riddled with plagiarism and error, but for a while he was glorified as a bona-fide scholar of history with a keen and insightful intellect.
 
And then there’s the LBJ historian whose name I disremember and can’t be bothered looking up. Caro, maybe? I have relatives with advanced degrees who religiously read the New York Times and are nominally conventional, conformist members of the US intelligentsia– they dote on popular “celebrated” historians like Caro and Brinkley.
 
They’re charlatans. If Bob was in the mood to resurrect his mid-60s approach toward conventional/mainstream journalists, he would’ve spun Brinkley like a top. Now he’s more like an old cat who tolerantly watches a mouse or bug creep by without lifting his head from his paws.

Dors
Dors
Jun 14, 2020 9:56 PM

May I appeal to the fellow OffG readers?
 
Make time capsules.
 
With you-know-what.
 

Dors
Dors
Jun 14, 2020 9:44 PM

Just read an article that portrays our predators, describes their movements across the history of the past seventy years, and even names them :
 
Cynthia Chung, June 14, 2020. Believe it or not, but the dystopic view that democracy is dead is by no measure a new idea. However, what might disturb you is where this design, in its contemporary form, really germinated from………….
 
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/06/14/enemy-within-story-purge-american-intelligence/
 

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Jun 14, 2020 11:21 PM
Reply to  Dors

the end was in sight….the people had increased the stack – the mountain was conquered, then for the overhaul….can only be failure to imagine it’s reform a being design of the people – when others have cast the lasso – sent out the invites to the party.- accepted and confirmed, in the fancy dress of sitting ducks.
 

JILLY
JILLY
Jun 14, 2020 9:13 PM

It is really amazing that the British PM is still insisting on a 2 m distance, which will make so many things impossible. That is just pure willfull vandalism of British small business, but a Bonanza for large US corporates who will swoop in and buy up the broken businesses. As they insist on the distance I read sky news telling us that the virus lives on surfaces for 72 house, but not paper or parcels from Amazon of course!

RobG
RobG
Jun 15, 2020 1:33 AM
Reply to  JILLY

Yes, it’s all total rollocks.
 
At the height of the Occupy movement, after the 2008 economic crash, most sides estimate that 1 in 4 of the protestors were police or security state agitators. That’s how afraid the little tossers were.
 
It’s even worse now. Look at this board, where you now get a plethora of security state little wankers who try to steer you into the state narrative.
 
Hello little wankers, your time is over, and you are all going to be put on trial.
 
Do you understand me? (you have to ask them this because they are all so dumb – Craig Murray’s board is a good example of this).
 
Good luck everyone.
 
With the way things are you’re certainly going to need it.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 7:02 PM
Reply to  RobG

1 of 4? My direct experience of many of those has been more like 3 of 5.

When I was invited 15 years ago to several think tanks on election (process) reform and voting security, all the groups would start out credibly real, then 1 in 3 were not, and at the end 9 of 10 were spooks playing true blue zealots, just insane. Any really devout group would get so hideously crashed.

That’s when I started really spaying attention to all the seams in ALL these things! LOLLL

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 15, 2020 7:04 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Paying and paying and paying. Spaying is a different op, though related.

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 9:04 PM

I think we need to start telling them , they already know we are mad as hell but really lads we are not going to take this any more.Get off to Mars you Inhumans.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 9:00 PM

Nothing you know is true. Round two. The U.S. armed Fidel Castro and helped him seize power.
 
G Edward Griffin is a towering researcher on topics from the founding of the Federal Reserve to 911. We also owe him for overturning the yarn we’ve been spun for 50 years about Cuba.
 
In 1980, Griffin interviewed the former American ambassador to Cuba, Earl T. Smith (1957-59), who was appointed to oversee the removal of Fulgencio Batista. What Ambassador Smith revealed is that the U.S. State Department withheld weapons from Batista while arming Fidel Castro.
 
Let that sink in when you think about the Bay of Pigs invasion of April 1961. Was Bay of Pigs a genuine invasion or a psyop, three months after his accession, to gaslight JFK?


Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 9:52 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

I don’t know anything.

richard
richard
Jun 14, 2020 9:58 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

G Edward Griffin is great but regarding the Fed, Eustace Mullins reckons Mr. Griffin plagiarised his book…

ginghiniagenie
ginghiniagenie
Jun 14, 2020 11:04 PM
Reply to  richard

He did, The Creature From Jekyll Island is almost entirely based on Mullins’ Secrets of the Federal Reserve.
 

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Jun 15, 2020 2:31 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Griffin has apparent moments of lucidity, but then he spins off into stupidland – he seems to believe the US deep state is controlled by (gasp!!!!!) commies, and the US **capitalist** deep state’s long term game plan of controlling all important parts of the world is a commie globalist undertaking. (sorry if I’m breaking any illusions here … a lot of people seem to be lost in the same nonsense …)

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jun 14, 2020 8:57 PM

…that there was a government conspiracy to kill JFK, that Oswald didn’t do it, and that the killers then went for the president’s brothers.

 
and many years later, they went for the President’s son …
http://www.whataboutthewhen.com/murder_jfk_jr_anne_frank.html
 
MG
 
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 14, 2020 9:55 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Anyone who knows anything about the forensics of the JFK Jr death will be clear that it was another assassination. His monogrammed luggage, and the 2 others’, all washed ashore at the beach house of Jackie, his then-recently departed mother. That doesn’t happen by chance, or even “coincidence”.

But that is typical of the savage Nazi “pranks”. Always. Sick people here.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 9:57 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

FTR #175 The Death of John F. Kennedy, Jr. http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-175-fortunate-son-i-the-death-of-john-f-kennedy-jr/
“Veteran journalist John Bryan interviewed Kyle Brady (a veteran pilot who flew from the same airport Kennedy departed from) who said JFK, Jr.‘s preflight actions indicated that Kennedy seemed to feel that something was wrong with the plane.
Contrary to news reports at the time, the weather was clear and the visibility was from between two and five miles. Contrary to news reports JFK Jr had flown more than double the hours needed to get his permit. Far from inexperienced he was a long-time pilot and enthusiast.
Bryan also reports eyewitness reports of seeing a “flash” or explosion over the water when Kennedy’s plane disappeared.
Bryan recounts numerous observations by media political pundits that Kennedy was going to be offered either the Presidential or, more likely, the Vice-Presidential nomination, in an attempt to assure victory for the Democrats in the election of 2000.
Bryan discusses the extraordinary secrecy that surrounded the retrieval and disposal of the plane’s wreckage and the bodies of the deceased. Reporters were not allowed to view the wreckage or the autopsy. No autopsy photographs were taken, in direct contravention of Massachusetts law. The bodies were cremated within 10 hours of discovery and buried at sea.”
https://emory.kfjc.org/archive/ftr/100_199/f-175.mp3
 

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 10:57 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Note that Roger Stone promotes the idea that Hillary Clinton was behind JFK Jr’s death (he was a rival for senator for New York) but this ignores one rather bigger candidacy that was being planned for 2000.
 
George W. Bush was being lined up for president. If Kennedy was going to be offered either the Presidential or, more likely, the Vice-Presidential nomination, it’s a fair bet that Dubya was going to be crushed. As it was, he had to fiddle the votes.
 
Who was present in Dallas on 11/22/63 but George H.W. Bush and his good wife Aleister Crowley’s daughter https://whowhatwhy.org/2013/10/09/bush-and-the-jfk-hit-part-4-barbaras-hair-raising-day/
 
Oh, and 911 was already being planned. I think it was 911 Commission co-chair Tom Kean who said in an unguarded moment that the 2001 attacks were part of a plan that went back decades.

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Jun 15, 2020 2:34 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Dubya didn’t fiddle anything, he can hardly figure out which way to hold a book – his handlers, maybe …

gordon
gordon
Jun 14, 2020 8:35 PM

zimmerman is a fraud a hack
joni mitchell knew it said it she once was heard stating that leonard cohen was some how connected to the scribblings of this bad act.
like tavistock beatles these songs where drafted up in regular offices in official buildings
 
the plan A revolution introduced millions of young people to occultism, blasphemy, eastern mysticism, sexual perversion, moral decline and ilicit drug use.
 
he sold his soul long ago just keeping up his side of the bargain
 
ugly retarded spirit at the cross roads
 
he is not a hero just another talmudick deconstruction agent of zio babylon
 
 
degradation division an obsession a desire to control all sides all narrative all the songs
 
all mockery in word in sin bull in gesture
 
these freaks are not gods but satans spawn
 
many folks here buy into amazon even now so why not pretend this ugly freak is with us on are side
if it makes you happy stay in your dream state
 
 
Bob Dylan is ‘a plagiarist’, claims Joni Mitchell 
 
what a rotter
 
the louis pasteur the edison of song smithery
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols.” (1 John 5:21)

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 8:42 PM
Reply to  gordon

I like your poems.

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 8:47 PM
Reply to  gordon

Faul was the dodgy one.

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 8:49 PM
Reply to  gordon

He was the Fool on the hill who saw the sun going down and the world spinning round.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:49 AM
Reply to  Marfanoid

Paul is the Barry Manilow of Rock and Roll. He reminds me, though very talented, of the great worm Smaug, in his love for hoarding gold.

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Jun 15, 2020 2:36 AM
Reply to  gordon

Off-G must be kind of tame reading for you ….

RobG
RobG
Jun 14, 2020 8:15 PM

I would hazard a guess that Dylan might have as yet some unannounced illness and he knows that his time is short (or maybe he just knows that he’s getting on and his time is short).
 
It was a similar scenario with Bowie, who in early 2016 released his Black Star album, just days before he died from liver cancer. Most of the world didn’t know that Bowie was dying. Black Star, and particularly the title track, contains some extraordinary imagery and lyrics, if you listen carefully.
 
It’s as if these guys know that their time is up, and before they go they want to tell it how it really is.
 
I sincerely hope that Dylan is ok. He remains a brilliant poet even in old age (poetry is not a young man’s game, it’s a middle-aged man’s game).

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 8:25 PM
Reply to  RobG

Bob’s on the next ship to Mars.Which is the same as the moon as we have been told by POTUS POTUS has a brain problem.He’s off there too.But Bowie is the man who fell to Earth..I really am looking forward to the show.
Paz y amor

Edwige
Edwige
Jun 14, 2020 8:50 PM
Reply to  RobG

If Bowie died, how was he very obviously able to appear on Sky News the day after smirking and saying it was as if part of him had died?

Tony
Tony
Jun 14, 2020 9:12 PM
Reply to  Edwige

More disruptive nonsense from you. Combat 77 Brigade motto: “Disrupt and divide. And if all else fails, drag them down the rabbit hole”.

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 9:24 PM
Reply to  Edwige

Well said.Also,why did his sister say on a television show for fool’s that he did a good job faking his own death.Major Tom is gonna beam him down soon people to save us from the racists.Who they manufactured .

gordon
gordon
Jun 15, 2020 1:55 AM
Reply to  RobG

bowie died the character that is
 
 
the man david robert jones was in brixton on the day of the announcement of the death of the sim
characters passing
he was also in west london near the gillette building doing an interview
 
 
Spring-heeled Jack 
wake up fools
 
 

RobG
RobG
Jun 15, 2020 2:21 AM
Reply to  gordon

You security service loons bore the hell out of me (and you will all be put on trial); but I suppose it gives me the excuse to post this again…
 

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 8:12 PM

I dont even read the articles on here no more , just the comments of my fellow humans.Just reading the comments tells me the jist of it.Bob says in the song that Jackie did it.It’s blatantly obvious.Peace and love.

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Jun 14, 2020 8:33 PM
Reply to  Marfanoid

I remember pointing this out to a friend in the U.S some years ago – she worked in investigating insurance claims for large corporations – I told her to watch Jackie, most folk tend to look at Kennedy’s head – her first response was – Wow !

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  Doctortrinate

Thankyou friend.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 8:11 PM

Let’s have some fun. We know it wasn’t the Cubans that killed Kennedy. But Fidel did have a fling and capture Canada. That’s what you call close AND a cigar!

Bykanarkist
Bykanarkist
Jun 14, 2020 8:29 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Justin just might be Castro’s son! There is a (Canadian) famous picture (now memory-holed) of Castro holding Justin in his arms. This was during the time Margaret was a wayward lass hanging out with the Stones. As Pierre was a homosexual, it is very possible that an arrangement could have made for Fidel to co-join with the NOT so Fidel Margaret!

Marfanoid
Marfanoid
Jun 14, 2020 9:26 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Well said for saying let’s have some fun.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jun 14, 2020 8:01 PM

There is a vanishingly small possibility that Zimmerman did not know the truth about the assassination for most of the 60 years.

He was even given a Nobel prize that he ummed and aahd about… he could have made his statement belatedly then.

Redemption indeed. Self redemption it looks like. He too feels his mortality and his great sin in being party to the cover-up for so long.

Is it his conscience speaking or guilt and desire to preserve his ‘memory free of blemish’?

Where is his background explanation- why is it reliant on just this ONE unreliable narrative?

Bob could and should put that on the ‘record’ for these not inclined to decipher his redemption song.

Don
Don
Jun 15, 2020 1:35 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Apparently people think that it’s OK for a songwriter to present himself as blatantly nuts? Because what on earth do you think would happen if he came out and said, “ya know, we should talk about that Kennedy thing and I’ll set ya right”? The song says everything he wanted to say, there’s no need to say anything else, and especially not in front of the media circus.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jun 14, 2020 7:49 PM

British heavy rock version (1980) – still going saw Saxon last year.
 
“Saxon – Dallas 1 PM” 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwPLExWJifA&feature=youtu.be
 
Tony
 
 
 

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 14, 2020 7:36 PM

Despite the fervent beliefs and musings of the “Saint JFK Killer Kult” and Mr Tambourine Man (and his harmonica), it is highly doubtful that had “SAINT JACK” not been whacked by the Cocaine Importers of America (CIA) and its Roselli family “subcontractors” that much (if anything) would be different today. The names may have changed but the crimes would have been the same. Criminal factions fighting for spoils is not socialism.
 
https://www.deviantart.com/redamerican1945/art/Eugene-V-Debs-Republican-Democratic-Party-674343047

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 7:42 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

You can draw a line from the assassination through a whole succession of presidents who were involved or who helped cover up the assassination – or who owed their promotion to the perpetrators. Shakespeare or Marlowe got it absolutely right and nothing has changed since Tamburlaine or Caesar.
 
Johnson, Nixon, Ford – Carter was a Rockefeller poodle – Reagan was a MCA/von Bolschwing creation – then back to Bush, Clinton who was a total Rockefeller-Bush creation, then another Bush, then Obama who is a CIA creation…
 
Only when you get to Trump do you have a president who is not identifiably a conspirator in the JFK assassination or a creation of the perpetrators, the Trilaterals or the CIA.
 

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jun 14, 2020 9:24 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Bush snr was at the centre of it and remained there throughout.

Let’s not forget King Kissinger who has been around sooooooooo long.

Tony
Tony
Jun 14, 2020 9:25 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

LBJ was in on the hit.

porkpie
porkpie
Jun 14, 2020 11:21 PM
Reply to  Tony

citation needed

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:56 AM
Reply to  Tony

Yes, his mistress Madelyn Duncan Brown talks about LBJ involvement very credibly.

Tony
Tony
Jun 14, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

There is a brutally honest interview somewhere on YouTube with the mafia guy who was the story behind Ray Liotta’s character in Goodfellas. He claimed that it was the mafia who did the actual hit on JFK.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 6:58 AM
Reply to  Tony

Certainly some Mafia did, they were the jackals, triangulating. But I’ve been wrong before. Not about the big picture though.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 14, 2020 7:36 PM

The Palace Coup of 1963 is very relevant to who runs America today.
 
The bottom line is that U.S. intelligence enabled people like Otto von Bolschwing to work at the highest levels of American business and politics, with connections to Klaus Barbie in Bolivia, and Adolf Eichmann in Argentina, carrying forward the plan.
 
J.E. Hoover worked with the Gestapo and he knew these people were going to set up another Reich before they left Germany. Allen Dulles who lured Otto von Bolschwing, and who hired Reinhard Gehlen, was on the Warren Commission that decided who killed JFK. Gerald Ford of the CIA was also on the Warren Commission and lied and covered up for Richard Nixon and absolved him of all crimes, including murder if it should ever come out, before Ford, too, earned his chance to keep the throne warm. The Warren Commission was stacked with CIA watchdogs like senator Richard Russell, who totally lied to the American people.
 
There is more truth in the story of Otto von Bolschwing than anything the people have learned about the Kennedys. The early connections to Richard Nixon, the connections to the Reagan White House, Reagan’s assistant Helene Van Damm, to the Gettys, to the manipulation of U.S. law, the manipulation of the U.S. president whom you don’t get to pick.
 
It is the story of Nazis and U.S. intelligence clearing the path for their own man. It is the story of pretending people like von Bolschwing don’t exist.
 
It is the story of the Defence Department and DARPA giving security clearance to a man with the highest Nazi and Gestapo connections, working in Silicon Valley, running Trans-international Computer Investment Corp, a high flying investment firm that had founded several companies in the Silicon Valley… and then as assistant to the president of Warner Lambert Pharmaceutical (Pfizer) another link with the German pharmaceutical companies and Nazi medical martial law.
 
The Nazis did not only enter the U.S. with the full complicity of American intelligence, they worked at the highest corporate and political levels putting their own people in place.
 
http://spitfirelist.com/news/ex-nazi%E2%80%99s-brilliant-u-s-career-strangled-in-a-web-of-lies/
 
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17i920
 
 

Jojo
Jojo
Jun 14, 2020 7:25 PM

JFK died long ago. He’s gone and isn’t coming back. What was the purpose of Dylan’s song? In other words, why should anyone give a crap at this time? Everyone needs to move on.
 
And yes, governments worldwide have been complicit in murders, assignations, conspiracies and so much more over the entirety of history. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 16, 2020 7:00 AM
Reply to  Jojo

Did you just tune in?

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 14, 2020 7:19 PM

Well sure this is depressing stuff but what did Mr Curtin think would happen? Did he foresee a headline like:
 
 

LEGENDARY SONGWRITER REVEALS AGE OLD CONSPIRACY AND THE US GOVT OWN UP! “WE’VE BEEN KILLING EVERYONE FOR DECADES BUT BOB HAS CAUGHT US OUT!”

 
When Oliver Stone made his JFK movie unambiguously giving us the conspiracy angle, the director was a non-person until he called the movie his own “myth”. As long as everyone is talking about their own “myths” the US govt is perfectly happy. So re: the new Dylan song, of course, we are going to get a load of vacuous waffle about “cultural imagery” and “piecing together the mystery” etc. And should anyone bring out the obvious observation that Dylan has joined the conspiracists, nobody is going to shoot him since that would give the game away. No, you will only get the customary eye rolling about how he’s “lost it” etc.
 

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 17, 2020 9:34 PM
Reply to  George Mc

EXCERPT ABOUT OLIVER STONE’S “JFK” FROM MICHAEL PARENTI’S ESSAY “THE JFK ASSASSINATION: DEFENDING THE GANGSTER STATE”:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/JFKAssassination.html

“An end run around the media blackout was achieved by Oliver Stone’s movie JFK, a film that directly reached millions of viewers with an accurate account of the specifics of the assassination. The movie could not simply be ignored because it was reaching a mass audience. So the press savaged it. As far as I know, JFK is the only movie in film history that was attacked, six months before it was released, in just about every major broadcast and print outlet. The Washington Post, for instance, gave George Lardner Jr. the whole front page of its Sunday “Outlook” section (5/19/91) to slam Stone for “chasing fiction.” Lardner was an interesting choice to review this particular movie, being the Post reporter who covered the CIA and who never wrote a critical word about that agency.

The media’s ideological gatekeepers threw restraint to the wind when dealing with Stone’s film. Conservative news columnist George Will, not known for writing movie reviews, penned a rant against JFK, calling it “a cartoon history” and “a three hour lie.” Will describes Stone as “an intellectual sociopath, combining moral arrogance with historical ignorance . . . a specimen of the sixties’ arrested development. . . . Intellectually, Stone is on all fours . . . part of a long fringe tradition . . . banally venal, reckless, cruel” (Washington Post, 12/27/91). By relying on invective, Will avoided the more difficult task of rebutting the points made in Stone’s film.

Shoulder to shoulder with conservartives like Will stood liberal centrists like Daniel Schorr, the NPR radio commentator who attacked Stone three times on the air, always in sarcastic and general terms, without ever coming to grips with the information proffered by the movie.

Then there was Tom Wicker, a syndicated columnist who also had never done a movie review, but when JFK came out, he wrote one that covered a whole page, completewith photos (New York Times, 12/15/91). In it, Wicker said something revealing:

If the wild assertions in Oliver Stone’s movie are taken at face value, Americans will have to accept the idea that most of the nation’s major institutions conspired together and carried out Kennedy’s murder. In an era when mistrust of government and loss of confidence in institutions–the press not the least–are widespread and virulent, such a suggestion seems a dubious public service.
In so many words Wicker was disclosing the basic reason why such a merciless attack had been launched against Stone’s movie. A full exposure of the assassination conspiracy would invite serious discredit upon the legitimacy of the dominant institutions of state and class. Playing before mass audiences, JFK did not accuse a cabal of malevolent perpetrators, but pointed to the national security state itself, inviting millions of viewers to question the kind of state system under which they lived.

JFK is the only movie I know that continues to be attacked years after its run. Reviewers and commentators persist in making gratuitous references, describing Oliver Stone as “the man who reinvented history with movies such as JFK” (Oakland Tribune, 10/13/95), referring to “Oliver Stone’s near-pathological monkeying with history” (East Bay Express, 12/14/95), and describing him as “a man who makes his living being a ranting maniac” and a “dangerous fellow” (San Francisco Examiner, 1/9/96). If anyone is ranting, it’s the press.”

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 18, 2020 8:36 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

I love that bit, “Oliver Stone’s near-pathological monkeying with history”. So history is a sacred text and doubting it is “near-pathological”?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Jun 19, 2020 12:39 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Then there’s this bit below, same Parenti piece (link above), but a quick scroll down to my personal fave, an “editorial” at WaPo 1/6/79 that came out after HSCA had concluded that there was “probably” more than one assassin. I can’t read it without laughing so hard I can’t stop crying, since I first saw it years ago: the unbelief that wells up in anyone without a petrified diaphragm, that the Wa Post would actually feel driven, apparently with straight faces, to publish in print any contention so obviously ludicrous, as in “untenable”:

***Like the Warren Commission, the press assumed a priori that Oswald was the killer. The only question it asked was: Did Oswald act alone? The answer was a loudly orchestrated YES. Meanwhile, almost every in-depth investigator had a different conclusion: Oswald did not act at all. He was not one of the people who shot Kennedy, although he was involved in another way, as a fall guy, in his own words “just a patsy.”

The media have been tireless in their efforts to suppress the truth about the gangster state. In 1978, when a House Select Committee concluded that there was more than one assassin involved in the Kennedy shooting, the Washington Post (1/6/79) editorialized:

‘Could it have been some other malcontent who Mr. Oswald met casually? Could not as much as three or four societal outcasts with no ties to any one organization have developed in some spontaneous way a common determination to express their alienation in the killing of President Kennedy? It is possible that two persons acting independently attempted to shoot the President at the very same time.’

It is “possible,” but also most unlikely and barely imaginable. Instead of a conspiracy theory the Post creates a one-in-a-billion “coincidence theory” that is the most fanciful of all explanations.***

_____________£4£&$4$_______________

P.S. I have a skin in the game, a dog in the chase, in that WaPo & NYT put out a rash of hit pieces –all at once, in a short time frame, summer of 2018– on someone I performed with on many occasions, effectively killing in one fell swoop one of the most distinguished musical careers in anyone’s recent memory.

And they were the ONLY ones (of record)……………………?!? Just how odd is THAT?

I’m speaking of William “Bill” Preucil, who became the target of unproven allegations of sexual misconduct, as SO many celebs have, with the regularity in our culture, of clockwork.

I haven’t seen him in 20 years, since I wished him well on the steps of CIM where he taught, next to where I was renting, and a block from where I had just heard him solo in the finest rendition of the Beethoven Violin Concerto, on record or off, I had ever heard.

I passed by him, in his black leather jacket and said, “Sir William, you played the Beethoven like an angel.” He nodded shily, smiled, and took another drag off his cigarette. He was on break, and I moved on.

For all I know, that’s the last exchange we’ll have, tho few as they were, as he’s dropped off the radar in toto, after his wife Gwen, Janos Starker’s daughter, divorced him in 2017, twenty years after these events took place. In fact those late 90s, of the allegations, were when I saw him or passed him in the halls the most, daily, and, as with Kobe Bryant whom I saw often at my church 10 years ago, you would never suspect either of them of forcing themselves on anyone. I’ve talked to others who’ve been around them, who say the same thing, adamantly.

And then there’s the issue, the relevant one in this rant, that the ONLY outlets that carried the story, were NYT, WaPo, and NPR, all the chiefs among the Usual Suspects, when Mockingbird has a mind to take somebody out.

Suzuki then yanked him as the star of their instructional videos, as peremptorily as any Professor Lockdown.

You’d think, just for the sake of more cred, and/or as a buttress to their case, they’d proliferate the story a lot elsewhere, easy enough to do, since they control ALL of the media landscape.

They must be getting really lazy, they are so cocksure and can assassinate characters so easy.

But just this one case casts suspicion on the whole process, such as with another great star, Placido Domingo, also just as banished, though not *as* vanished.

Whether “Sir William” helped them, with self-inflicted wounds, I just have no idea.

But I was a member of his AFM, local 4 for almost 20 years and intend, when and if I can, to find out.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jun 14, 2020 7:17 PM

Edward Curtin, 
Thank you. Listening to it now.
 
Lyrics
 
http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/murder-most-foul/
 
Tony
 

Einstein
Einstein
Jun 14, 2020 7:08 PM

Of course Brinkley knows that the ‘murder most foul’ and 9/11 are direct causes of the restlessness in America today.
It’s a restlessness that those in power (banksters, CIA, etc.) seek to divert, via their mainstream Goebbels media, to racism, flu and anything else that comes along.
Since the banksters et al have now stolen almost everything they can from the people, the people have little left to lose. That makes this a very dangerous time for the power elite.
No wonder their propaganda is in overdrive.
But it won’t save them.

Jack
Jack
Jun 14, 2020 6:55 PM

 
The following article claims there are two distinct versions of Covid-19, the Wuhan strain and the Euro-American strain.
 
http://www.preearth.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1184
 
It seems the Euro-American strain of Covid-19 had already spread worldwide long before Wuhan.
 
The Wuhan strain (just like SARS before it) is dangerous, especially to the elderly, but not particularly contagious, whereas, the Euro-American strain is quite contagious, but not particularly dangerous. If classified, the Euro-American strain would be classed as another strain of the common cold. Because it wasn’t dangerous the Euro-American strain spread worldwide without being noticed.
 
What do you think?

Willem
Willem
Jun 14, 2020 7:44 PM
Reply to  Jack

I think that this is a copy-paste from the previous thread.

Ort
Ort
Jun 14, 2020 9:47 PM
Reply to  Willem

Thanks for this. Jack does seem to be a chap of one idea.
 
I was worried that I experiencing double, and even triple, vision– that at long last, I was succumbing to the Megadeath Virus of Doom! 😉

Who D. Who
Who D. Who
Jun 16, 2020 1:46 PM
Reply to  Ort

Hello, Ort. I was wondering where everyone was hanging out these days. See you around.

sunset
sunset
Jun 14, 2020 6:17 PM

No, it’s quite the MYSTERY why, given what is happening in the world today, Off-Guardian keeps distracting with stories about a PALACE COUP in the 1960s. Who gives a s–t about one set of psycho monsters at the top of the power pyramid offing the ‘head’ of another set of monsters?
 
Of course the FABIAN LIE MACHINE has always lionised this member of one of America’s most perverted and demonic families. Readers of Animal farm will understand the propaganda technique.
 
Meanwhile, talking of things that matter today, the Deep State manipulation of the mob in the USA continues, with the police slaughter of a ‘black’ man at a fast food outlet, and the ‘other’ side encouraged to justify his MURDER, cos the drunk struggled and grabbed a NON-LEATHAL taser. Everywhere you go online, if the outlet poses as non-woke, it justifies the murder of this man.
 
In real-time you watch a convenient random incident (arising from the practice of employing butchers from America’s wars of aggression to serve in the domestic police force when they demob- a fact applauded by both the ‘right’ AND ‘left’ in the USA cos their mass murdering soldiers are “all heroes”) spin into the current narrative.
 
The Wendys building gets literally LYNCHED, the woke journalists reporting get assaulted by ‘leftist’ protestors, and the event is used to further polarise the two mob factions (even tho logically the murder was disgusting and in-excusable).
 
Does America face a ‘civil war’? Of course not. The psy-op only seems that way to the hard-of-thinking. What is happening is reprogramming of the sheeple and a reorganisation of the public facing lower level of the power pyramid. Again re-read Animal Farm and try to understand what Orwell is saying this time.
 
The mob is a source of great energy, but the mob lacks a brain. When the mob is activated, it is because higher forces desire to direct that energy- to channel it into new projects. Periods of social unrest frequently occur just before periods of great war. Sometimes the wars are created to quell the unrest, but sometime the unrest is used as a way to prepare the ground for war, as with the MI5 directed anti-war protests in the UK just before Blair invaded Iraq.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Jun 14, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  sunset

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to
strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow
very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the
more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense
that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the
presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the
limits put on the range of the debate.”

Noam Chomsky 1968

BLM is the lively debate to distract whilst they push through God knows what.

BDBinc
BDBinc
Jun 14, 2020 8:13 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

Yeah this site pretends there is a ” new virus that causes a new disease COvID19 ” .It only questions the number of deaths and govt lockups .
 
The Kennedy article is distracting and outdated everyone here knows about the K assassination, 911, mind programming, NWO .
Chomsky was a great controlled opposition leader.