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Judge Orders ‘Destruction’ of Epstein Evidence

Eric Zuesse

Image source: Law and Crime

US District Court Judge Loretta Preska, who was appointed by George Herbert Walker Bush, and whom his son had considered promoting to the Supreme Court, ruled in a case on July 1st, ordering the attorneys for one of Jeffrey Epstein’s alleged victims, Virginia (Roberts) Guiffre, to “destroy” a list of men who had taken advantage of Epstein’s “girls.”

This action pertains to a case not only against Epstein, who is dead, but against his friend and colleague Ghislaine Maxwell, who happened to become arrested by the FBI in Bedford New Hampshire the very next day, on July 2nd.

Judge Preska said that Giuffre’s attorneys:

Cooper & Kirk shall destroy (a) all materials from Giuffre v. Maxwell, No. 15 Civ. 7433, currently in its possession, save for the transcript of Ms. Giuffre’s deposition in that case and (b) all work product derived from the Maxwell materials. Cooper & Kirk shall submit to the Court an affidavit detailing the steps that it took to destroy the materials.”

Her order to the attorneys stated that Giuffre:

alleged that Ms. Maxwell was a ringleader in Jeffrey Epstein’s sex-trafficking scheme, a trusted lieutenant of Epstein’s who facilitated his purported trafficking of underage girls to prominent individuals. Ms. Giuffre’s defamation action against Mr. Dershowitz alleges that Mr. Dershowitz was one of the prominent individuals who took advantage of Epstein and Ms. Maxwell’s trafficking scheme and that Ms. Giuffre was forced to have intercourse with Mr. Dershowitz when she was underage. Ms. Giuffre alleges that Mr. Dershowitz’s false denial of such contact defamed her.”

Preska’s order does not say that the names of the men on that list are to be kept confidential and not available to the press, but instead that Giuffre’s attorneys are to “destroy” it.

As Colin Kalmbacher reported, at Law and Crime on July 1st, under the headline “Judge Orders Virginia Giuffre’s Lawyers to ‘Destroy’ Their Jeffrey Epstein Files, Bars Dershowitz from Accessing Them”:

At issue here are two separate legal controversies:

(1) a protective order issued in 2015 by Judge Robert W. Sweet in a since-settled defamation case between Giuffre and Epstein’s alleged groomer and girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell;

and (2) a more recent series of extant defamation, back-and-forth claims between Giuffre and Dershowitz.

The Giuffre v. Maxwell protective order is the major legal lock-and-key which has long-protected the Epstein files. A process is currently underway for both sides to sift through those documents and eventually make many of them available for public consumption.

Although other copies of that list might exist (which are not likewise being ordered by Preska to be destroyed, but could possibly be brought forth as evidence in other trials), Judge Preska’s order prohibits Dershowitz’s use of Giuffre’s copy of that physical list, as being evidence in this trial, which isn’t between Giuffre and Maxwell, but instead between Giuffre and Dershowitz — who claims to be not on that list and to need that list in order for him to prove his personal defamation case against Giuffre, who says that he is on the list.

The Court’s ruling said:

the Maxwell Protective Order prohibits information designated as CONFIDENTIAL from being “disclosed or used for any purpose except for the preparation and trial of [the Maxwell] case.”

The alleged reason that the ruling provides to “destroy” the list is that

Critically, the agreed-upon unsealing procedure can only work as intended if non-parties are willing to participate. Handing over to Mr. Dershowitz all of the materials from Maxwell, which would necessarily include all of the sealed filings that are the subject of the unsealing protocol, would threaten that balance. Non-parties [to the Giuffre-v.-Maxwell case] may question the legitimacy of that process if Mr. Dershowitz can obtain, without any regard whatsoever for their interests, the sealed materials for the mere reason that disclosure would make mounting his defense and litigating his counterclaims against Ms. Giuffre more convenient [in other words: to assist Dershowitz’s case against Giuffre].The Court will not risk collateral damage to the Maxwell unsealing process by modifying the protective order.”

The “balance” that’s referred-to there is allegedly the right of both the accuser Giuffre and the accused Maxwell to have their privacy protected. Dershowitz says he wants this list in order to prove that his name isn’t on the list. The Court’s “Protective Order” had been issued in 2016 in the Giuffre-v.-Maxwell case, so as to:

protect the discovery and dissemination of confidential information or information that will improperly annoy, embarrass, or oppress any party, witness, or person providing discovery in [Maxwell].” (Id.) The order accordingly permits the parties to designate as CONFIDENTIAL certain materials produced in discovery that “are confidential” and that implicate “common law and statutory privacy interests” of Ms. Giuffre and Maxwell Defendant Ghislaine Maxwell (“Ms. Maxwell”).

Preska’s ruling includes a footnote in which she says:

Bubbling underneath the debate about modification of the Maxwell Protective Order is a more practical concern: the temptation that the Maxwell materials might inspire for a litigant in Mr. Dershowitz’s position. As a general matter, Mr. Dershowitz’s battle with Ms. Giuffre has proceeded in very public — and frequently toxic — fashion. See, e.g., Alan Dershowitz Twitter Posts from June 22, 2020, available at https://twitter.com/AlanDersh (suggesting that Ms. Giuffre should be “prosecuted and sent to prison” for perjury). More importantly, and perhaps reflecting Mr. Derhsowitz’s desire to defend himself in the public eye, Counsel for Mr. Dershowitz noted at oral argument that “Professor Dershowitz obviously wants all information [contained in the Maxwell materials] to be out there, to be public … because he believes it exonerates him.” (Transcript at 21:21-24.)

That lengthy footnote concludes:

Thus, given the public character of this litigation [between Dershowitz and Giuffre] and what is at stake for the litigants, production of the Maxwell materials to Mr. Dershowitz would raise additional risk of leakage from the materials at issue in the Maxwell[-v.-Giuffre] unsealing process into filings in the Dershowitz action. This would further undermine the unsealing process in Maxwell.”

Perhaps any men who had raped any of those girls will be long in their graves and well-established in the history-books before their having been on Ghislaine Maxwell’s lists will become publicly known. If that turns out to be the outcome, then the girls and the public will be “screwed” yet again, and Judge Preska’s order exhibits no concern about that.

A judge is supposed to represent the public’s interests, even in private disputes. But perhaps private interests take precedence in America’s courts. The public’s interests are not even mentioned in the judge’s ruling. Though the word “public” is stated there six times, it never concerns the public’s interests, but only private ones, such as “given the public character of this litigation and what is at stake for the litigants”.

What about the public? They’re mentioned only as being voyeurs. Is this American ‘democracy’?

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

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Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 8, 2020 5:00 PM

A key to getting promoted in most walks of life is knowing how to pervert the course of justice without being charged with any crimes.
 
This judge has been bought for reasons only she knows.
 
Supremes get selected by being politically convenient to the appointing authorities.
 
The Law was never about justice, it was about getting the rich and powerful off.

Edwige
Edwige
Jul 7, 2020 9:42 AM

Two useful sources on Maxwell and Elon Musk:
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5261293/Elon-Musk-says-didnt-know-event-went-sex-party.html
 
https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/1279500934360547328
 
Which is most improbable….
a) This giggling man-child runs the world’s richest car company?
b) He’s sent a Tesla Roadster into orbit and then on to Mars?
c) His defence here?

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 11:49 PM

Turns out that Maxwell has been covered by a federal law rather than a state law. The federal law of immunity ; a clause in an agreement made with her ‘boss’ Epstein in 2008. It’s a non-prosecution agreement apparently.Just why Epstein wanted to secure that in a plea bargain is anybody’s guess. But he was guaranteed she’d be protected by him doing so. Maybe it was loyalty. Maybe it was fear. Maybe someone higher up in the land of Mossad intervened.But she’s protected by a non-prosecution agreement that wasn’t overturned in 2018 when when Epstein was in court again.This despite a later judge’s ruling ( following Epstein’s sentence in 2019) that ‘co-conspirators’ needn’t think that it was all over and that the girls seeking justice for so long would get it.This will leave a lot of people embarrassed when it resurfaces.But nobody will be blushing as much as Justice.

gordon
gordon
Jul 6, 2020 9:33 PM

dopelganger
the real son of ha ha maxwell robert aka ghis slain is already in tel aviv
is it not
 
drinking cocktails with dad and creepy unkle lord greville janner

Freeborn John
Freeborn John
Jul 6, 2020 9:06 PM

Well, pardon my language but.
What a fuckin suprise.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 6, 2020 12:52 PM

When has the Gestapo scheduled sweet young thing Ghislaine’s PERP WALK? Or have we missed it?

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 6, 2020 10:42 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

Paul Romano on his YT channel PocketsOfTheFuture has a nice collection
on this event sort of happening but at the same time not taking place
in any meaningful sense.
 
Perp Walk: she is just so very connected. She has been the nexus, the go-between,
the middle woman, the nympho, the accounting lady, the madam, the facilitator,
the activist, the mistress, the dominatrix and the con artist. Among other things.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 6, 2020 12:31 PM

Another bent judge: is it possible to be a judge without being corrupt? In the UK even magistrates are corrupt. Kind of sad, the magistrate system was supposed to prevent this, but let’s face it, every government system will only survive while it’s useful.

paul
paul
Jul 7, 2020 6:52 PM
Reply to  aspnaz

No, no, you’re quite wrong, A. We have an independent judiciary and the Rule of Law, an unbiased and impartial media, and honest politicians of unimpeachable integrity. And wonderful summer weather.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 6, 2020 11:48 AM

Just as I opined it looks like the whole story is scripted and ready to play out – probably with La Maxwell, being handed over to the ‘safe hands’ of Manhattan prison system and the ‘honest prosecutor’ from where she will join her late father and boyfriend in a royal disappearance from this earth.

No need for suicide – what with a handy COVID to blame it on – it is expected she’ll contract it within days and end up in intensive care and dead by the end of next week – CASE CLOSED.

As for the ‘honest lawyer and professor’ friend of Epstein and the Clinton’s, Rothschilds defender of OJ… Norman Finkelstein a REAL human being has long had his number as expounded in this thread

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1279174799969959936

Enjoy.

Send in the trolls…

Watt
Watt
Jul 6, 2020 3:50 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Thanks for the link. Norm’s the man!

Grafter
Grafter
Jul 6, 2020 10:41 AM

“US District Court Judge Loretta Preska, who was appointed by George Herbert Walker Bush, and whom his son had considered promoting to the Supreme Court.”
 
The criminal Bush legacy continues.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 6, 2020 12:42 PM
Reply to  Grafter

Papa Bush was CIA – DNC territory – and given how corrupt the CIA was under his leadership, I imagine he is comparing notes with Biden on how to sell the USA to China. You think all those oil wars were about anything other than self enrichment? There is nothing wrong with US government if you don’t have murderers running the country. Why would murderers care which party you are in? Epstein dead … ooops. For someone who is in US government and has killed hundreds of thousands, one more means nothing. The shame is that the US citizens are so easily distracted, which is why the murderers are so safe there.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31
Jul 6, 2020 8:15 AM

If I were a scriptwriter I’d craft the story so that Ghislaine arrives in New York with a fat bank account containing the millions her father stole from UK pension accounts.
 
She’s a party girl, and unavoidably meets Epstein who realises what a fortune is smiling at him. He realises that her father has control over Ghislaine so for Epstein to gain control, the father must be gone.
 
This is arranged through Epstein’s contacts from the time when he had a fake Austrian passport, within 6 months of Ghislaine’s arrival in New York. The money is now mostly in Epstein’s name to blur the tracks.
 
He promises to marry her so the money can return to Ghislaine’s control – after all this is why Robert Maxwell stole it.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 6, 2020 9:16 AM
Reply to  Wilmers31

‘Maxwell’ – had sons and other daughters.
The stinking can of worms is a lot bigger than you wish to speculatively restrict it to.

Consider that the fixer, thug and spin doctor to the NuLabInc Blair government was a trusty lieutenant of ‘Maxwell’ at the Daily Mirror.

The sexy dossier man – Alistair Campbell.

You don’t need a scriptwriter – just a honest investigative journalist.

alex
alex
Jul 6, 2020 8:00 AM

And, just slightly besides the point, where are the mug shots of mrs. Maxwell?, like there would have been of any other suspect in such a big case? Only old glamour photo’s I see of her.

Is another self enamored ‘person’ conveniently going to ‘get away with’ suicide, just like Epstein?

Is the law (going to be) adjusted to accomodate for her special person, like it is being done for Assange, but then more favorable, as she is more popular with those in power?

It seems to me that if Prince Andrew were say a milkman, he would be summoned to appear in court and upon his refusal be arrested.

Where is the compromising material that she and Jeffrey blackmailed the rich and powerful with?

Darren
Darren
Jul 6, 2020 7:14 AM

Sure is a lot of Israeli/Jewish involvement in this child sex ring. Harvey is just settling into his new home and now we have proof that Woody Allen, Alan Dershowitz, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, Les Wexner, Ahud Barak, Larry Summers and many others are involved in a child sex ring.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 6, 2020 2:50 PM
Reply to  Darren

Funny that.

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 6, 2020 11:41 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

Woody Allen has become what he always was, a caricature of himself
and his appetites.
His membership of the club just makes him a grotesque caricature.
All those rich powerful men are monsters and cowards also.
But definately far more monster than coward, a vicious and cruel pack.
(or should I say PAC?)

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 7, 2020 12:00 AM
Reply to  Mishko

Is permitted in the Talmud. The Goy are a sub-species. They prosper because they lack conscience, and don’t believe God is watching them. We don’t need to become evil to defeat them, just mass awareness.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jul 6, 2020 4:13 AM

The Photography Has not been Destroyed.

Whilst I have very little photographic evidence, that I ever rode a motorbike, my wife just looks at them – at The Rock & Bike Fest in Derbyshire,,,and can see me drooling all over them – mainly BSA 650 Gold Star and my older brother’s Triumph 650 Tiger, after he had just rebored it.

If you haven’t experienced it, then I can’t explain it – its the torque = any gear, and the acceleratiom – its about pulling, which is why I took up gliding.

Come on , lets get this back on the road…She is not going to Die of COVID and neither are you..Just help to get us back on the road again

“Canned Heat – On The Road Again [HQ]”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKNw477onU

Tony

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Jul 6, 2020 1:48 AM

 
EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY
 
Epstein worked with the intelligence agencies in a huge honeypot trap, so it’s obvious these agencies already possess detailed photos and videos of every single important and well-known person who was compromised by this operation. The FBI and CIA raided Epstein/Wexler’s $70 million dollar NYC townhome, the Bahama estate, the New Mexico compound and the Palm Beach Florida mansion and gathered the assiduously housed videos, photos and documents. At this point, the intelligence agencies are protecting government officials and billion dollar executives while also covering the CIA and Mossad involvement in this operation. After all, how could a pedofile sex ring “overtly operate” with impunity for more than two decades unless it was protected by the national security state. 
 
It’s highly unlikely the FBI did not know Ghislaine Maxwell’s whereabouts for over a year. She obviously was being shielded.  As far as Dershowitz is concerned he’s little more than an obnoxious loudmouth who initially attracted the limelight defending men who murdered their wives. So it’s no surprise that such a lowlife has pedofile proclivities. When he isn’t messing around with children he’s a foul-mouth Zionist who mercilessly defamed Norman Finkelstein for speaking out against the plight of the Palestinians. I guess there’s some truth to the old adage–every dog has its day……. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/arts/12tenu.html
 

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 4:04 AM

Any enemy of the Jew is the enemy of America.Any asset of the Jew is an asset to America. This is the glue that binds a dangerous alliance that flouts the international laws and fears no retaliation in doing so.Epstein had leverage; So Maxwell has it now.Both Mossad assets in America. It’s taken a year to untangle a web and make sure all remnants of forensic evidence was ‘disappeared’. All that was left to do was to demolish of testimonies of any accusers.Then it was arranged that Maxwell could be rescued from her luxury safe house and put in a hotel to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.All bases are now covered.All arses too.But I have the suspicion that one or two arses will be getting an unforeseen bite from the UK soon.
 

Charlotte Ruse
Charlotte Ruse
Jul 6, 2020 11:09 AM
Reply to  Jura Calling

“All that was left to do was to demolish of testimonies of any accusers.Then it was arranged that Maxwell could be rescued from her luxury safe house and put in a hotel to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.All bases are now covered.”

If Maxwell poses a problem she’ll develop a deadly case of COVID-19.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 8:09 AM

Good points. Ghislaine was probably being debriefed – the carrot being this deal in which she faces watered-down charges relating only to the years 1994-97.

Charlotte Ruse
Charlotte Ruse
Jul 6, 2020 11:13 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Grishlaine was not charged with raping any of her victims.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 2:14 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Epstein was killed because he was a time bomb.But he was a smart time bomb too. Don’t forget he’d ‘ taken one for the team’ a few years previous to his second imprisonment. Whatever he had on people, Maxwell did too.She was still out there loose. They could have persuaded her to hang herself from a bunk bed too but they’d have no guarantee she hadn’t left her knowledge with someone else.They’d have no clue as to where or with whom either.That’s a lot of leverage.They can’t spend the next 5 years destroying complaints or charges made against Epstein’s powerful perverts. Maxwell may or may not have damaged any kids. But if she was witness to who did and where and when, she’s a powder keg. If she’s guaranteed a charmed life from hereon in in exchange for her losing her memory then everyone’s happy.It’s comforting to know that the small group of scum that are robbing their countries, and pissing viruses into the streets as they get looted for false flags and psyops they caused can find time to sit back, relax, abuse kids and then spend money playing an expensive game of hide and seek.God bless our great democracy.
 

1of7billion
1of7billion
Jul 6, 2020 12:54 AM

I wrote a long comment below (apparently there’s a 10,000 character limit I wasn’t aware of, I see the graphic now counting down, but I just don’t think of the length, I just say what I think needs saying, and it’s up to everyone else if they can be bothered reading it or not) and as it didn’t appear for a long while, so it looks like most people didn’t see it (didn’t rate it either negative or positive) I’ll just do a shorter precis here, as really, I think this article and a lot of the comments here are sadly missing the point.
 
I think people need to wake up to the fact that the public are being taken for mugs by being lured to get gleeful about an in actual fact very occasional rich elite getting convicted or imprisoned for some alleged scandal or other, which may or may not be true, when it’s pretty irrelevant to their ordinary lives.
 
I wish people would read my longer comment below because there’s some really important stuff in there people ought to know for their own good and I am certain mostly don’t.
 
It doesn’t change most of our lives one iota whether the Maxwell woman is guilty or not or gets imprisoned or not, it’s the whole unjust culture of privilege and power of the rich elite over everyone else that is the real problem, and putting this woman in prison isn’t going to do a damn thing regarding that.
 
The bigger issue is about kangaroo courts like this, not using proper evidence to put people away, and if they can do it to rich people, rest assured they can do it to us too, so really we shouldn’t celebrate all this “witch hunting” over so called “historical sex offences” which no honest judge and jury could ever convict anyone up on, because the events are too far away in time, and genuine and solid proof is therefore impossible to get with few exceptions.
 
I think this particular event (the judge banning evidence that would clear him) is mainly about this Professor Dershowitz having written a book opposing the “me too” campaign called:
“Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo” which was on the New York Times best seller list.
So all the PC lawyers, judges and politicians are furious with him and trying to destroy him with false accusations probably, partly because their agenda is to disempower and destroy what they call “the privileged white male” (hence the wall to wall coverage of the BLM protests), but ordinary males need to realise if they can stitch up privileged white males with false accusations and put them in prison and destroy their lives, they can do it to average or poor ones too. 
This is Orwellian show trial and 2 minute hate, and does the public little good but just distracts from the real issue of massive economic inequality and enforced globalisation and mass immigration which most of the people of any Western nation don’t want.
 
The same people who fanatically support this barbaric and ridiculous lockdown support these kind of historical sex offence witch-hunts, and it’s mostly about extortion of money by greedy and dishonest lawyers and their clients, hiding their greed and lies behind the banner of protecting women and girls, instead of genuine protection of women and girls, which none of these legal actions will ever achieve.
 
It’s too easy to hate rich people and want to take vengeance on them, but justice has to apply to everyone, including rich people, or it is available to none of us.
 
This is mainly just about whipping up a vengeful mob like the French revolution – when you get mob justice, it can be turned against anyone, not just the rich elite or privileged, so it is not good for the public to support these kind of vengeful “show trials”, which it also should be pointed out, are mainly not about justice at all, but just one group of rich people deciding to take down another group for personal vendetta reasons that have nothing to do with justice on any level.
 
You know, try watching that series “Billions”, and basically all these rich and powerful people are as bad as one another, it’s just gangsters taking one another out, and not remotely in the public interest who manages to get the best lawyers to do each other in.
 
Only a more fair sharing of wealth both nationally and globally will help the public in general, bring justice to their lives, which is mainly about an effective tax system, which the elites constantly avoid or evade, and that is the main issue that should concern us, but gets hidden behind a load of irrelevant nonsense like this ultimately useless Maxwell trial.
 
Not one of the starving millions lives’ will be saved by this action, not one more job created for the jobless millions in every world nation, not one thing good will come out of it that really matters, except if it succeeds, a dangerous corruption of the justice/legal system which will believe it can destroy any man by this means, whether with real evidence or with (in most cases) false.
 
This is not how the public gets even with the rich elite – it’s taxing the rich propely alone which will achieve that, but the media doesn’t talk about that, instead it just shoves all this irrelevant scandal nonsense in our faces, to keep our minds off what really matters, which is the injustice against most of the public, just like this ridiculous lockdown, taking away everybody’s human rights and even jobs and businesses without just cause.
 
 

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 6, 2020 3:27 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

There are no instant results. Rest assured every elite that gets outed as a paedo and a crook helps the bovine masses awake. Also, justice must be served. You don’t do that by allowing paedos and crooks to get away with their crimes.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 5, 2020 10:20 PM

Yet another badly scripted drama with a predictable and unimaginative plot. We must be in the land that gave us Hollywood.Oi Vey already…
 
I did wonder. Maxwell has a French birth certificate, ergo a French citizenship.The US wouldn’t have been able to snap it’s fingers and extradite her.France wouldn’t have to. Yet she chose to give that right up, as well as the comfort and safety of one of her many luxury homes for the four walls of a holding cell we’ll never see a picture of…
 
So a high court judge, that was appointed by psychopathic war criminal Bush,has made a blanket decision to make a lot of potentially incriminating testimony and statements ‘disappear’. A bit like they’ve been doing to their credibility as a democracy for 50 years now.I wonder if she can even spell ‘impartial’ ?
 
So, suddenly it seems there’s logic behind the Maxwell change of mood and venue. Deals have been done and agreements made.She’ll stand trial for things that can’t be proven.She will walk free with a head filled with explosive secrets and a guarantee of protection.Because the much vaunted ‘little black book’ has finally found it’s way into the hands of the SS.Sorry i mean Gestapo. Hang on. The CIA. That’s the one…
 
This kind of thing used to happen in the UK. In the 80s the highest judge in the land put a gag on reporters who wished to report on the respectable politicians who had been caught using children’s homes to enjoy themselves with games of rape and torment.Politicians tried to deny it and even cover it up.I mention no names. Margaret Hodge. But we always find out once they die.That way it can be said that we shouldn’t accuse anyone not here to defend themselves..
 
Epstein isn’t here to defend himself is he.And now we know his book isn’t and that those friends that show up on Google images if you type their name next to his, are safe.All those regular passengers of the Lolita Express who could indulge in snorting ‘business advice’ and raping under aged ‘business deals.’.
 
So, the Tangerine Dream who sits in The Whitehouse can put it all down to ”fake nooz” as he postures and pouts for the cameras and world’s press. No doubt still celebrating independence day on the land of the Sioux.The red lives that mattered enough to be raped and butchered in order to take their land for the ‘free’
 
And ‘Maxy’ will walk out full of smiles and pre-written speeches for later.She’ll be another bit richer and will no doubt have the thanks and eternal gratitude of America and it’s string puller Israel.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 5, 2020 10:14 PM

“Is this American ‘democracy’ ”
Well… er… yes.
Is anyone claiming something different?

Peter
Peter
Jul 5, 2020 9:05 PM

One law for them and one for?
 

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jul 5, 2020 8:48 PM

I still think they are trying to kill us old people off, and will continue to do so. My wife missed most of the online drumming class, but still borowed My African Drum, when she got back from The Birthday Party in the Gardens of a Pub, which I was not invited to, cos I am a bloke..She was hungry and only a bit p1ssed..so I looked at my first row of potatoes ,that I started off in March in our Back Garden…No Blight, and there are going to be a lot more down there.

The first potato, I have ever grown. It is rather big, and I am now boiling it in a pan. It looks so perfect, all I did was shake the soil off, and boil it in a pan..

We are about to taste it – didn’t bother peeling it…and yes we do have some butter and cheese.

I am not suggesting we can completely feed ourselves from our back garden, but we can also forage for fruit.

They don’t kill us old people off, that easy.

We have got to look after ourselves first.

These [email protected] in Control are Incredibly F’ckin Evil.

They are trying to Kill us Too

Tony

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 6, 2020 12:51 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Tony, how do you know when to dig? Is it when the foliage starts to wilt and give out? (my first time with potatoes.)

Ralph Frustaci
Ralph Frustaci
Jul 5, 2020 8:14 PM

American democracy is an illusion, just ask the Libyans, the Iraqis, the Somalis, the Afghans etc, etc. America has become a joke. A very sick one at that.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 3:52 AM
Reply to  Ralph Frustaci

Anyone who needs to repeat and repeat and repeat a phrase ad nauseam is doing it out of fear you discover that they’re doing it to ensure you never realise they mean the exact opposite.Think of how many presidents have done it with their ‘liberty’ and ‘democracy’ and ‘land of the free’. Understand the nature of their looking glass world.

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 6, 2020 11:50 PM
Reply to  Ralph Frustaci

It is nasty, a bit like popculture. A whole lotta fluff without content.
But somewhat entertaining. Part of “consensus trance”. Classroom indoctrination.
 

Joemama
Joemama
Jul 13, 2020 12:00 AM
Reply to  Ralph Frustaci

America is a puppet to the rich.
The rich come from all corners of the earth.
The .0001percent work together to control all population”””s world wide!!!
To make this out to be just an american problem is just ignorant!!!
Please wake up before it is too late!!!

paul
paul
Jul 5, 2020 8:04 PM

The chances of the courts getting to the bottom of this are of the snowball in hell variety.
Just think back to the Simpson and Jackson trials, people who were infinitely less well connected.

Einstein
Einstein
Jul 5, 2020 7:38 PM

Since when did a judge destroy evidence? Why?
If it’s false or dangerous, let it be shown to be so.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 3:57 AM
Reply to  Einstein

They’d have to show you who it was dangerous to then though.And then the real shit would hit the real fan.That they’ve moved mountains and killed Epsteins to make this go away tells you the real danger in those secrets.
 
Trump;Clinton/s;Gates;Musk;Bloomberg….Since when did the most successful billionaire businessmen have to travel to Epstein to buy ‘investment advice ‘?
 
It sounds like America have bent and broken the constitution again in the name of Israel and their assets.
 

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Jul 5, 2020 7:35 PM

Boring. Hardly anyone in the UK is interested in this, and I bet most of our friends in the US aren’t interested either. Epstein is dead FFS! Just let it go. It’s just like Savile. The Establishment and MSM wouldn’t let that one go, even though he was dead.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 5, 2020 9:18 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

I do get that hardly anyone in the UK is interested in this, but this “this” that you are talking about nevertheless has great significance for the entire judicial system. It is not even a proven fact beyond all doubt that Epstein is dead – the only “evidence” we have is what the media have been allowed to throw at us – but my point is that destroying evidence has never been a normal thing to do, even when the alleged criminal and the victims are dead.
Justice isn’t really a matter exclusively for people who are not dead, and the corrupt environment in which certain crimes, like Savile’s, were committed, is not something to be swept under the carpet and forgotten until somebody writes a best-seller about it after 50 years.
This is a case of, “With respect, Your Honour, no way in Hell are we going to cooperate in the destruction of evidence, and you really need to have your competence for the job of District Court Judge reassessed.”
Where are the people who used to stand up to official bullying?
“Your Honour” has become a totally ridiculous form of address. “Your Dishonour” fits much better.
 

Tony
Tony
Jul 6, 2020 12:00 AM
Reply to  wardropper

No one has mentioned all the victims of these perverted so-called important people who slunk to that island to sate their slimy perversions on impressionable young girls..All herded and collected by the disgusting madam maxwell..May they rot in hell..Clintons.et al.

Geoff
Geoff
Jul 5, 2020 9:21 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

I wouldn’t gamble to much as to whether he’s dead, he’s probaly enjoying life in the country we dare not mention

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 6, 2020 11:56 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

Why would I care to accept the dead verdict on the old Epper?
It is just another extension of all the criminality and deception
that went on before. Its presumed inevitability is its legitimacy as a con.
Smoke & mirrors.

Felix Culpa
Felix Culpa
Jul 5, 2020 7:20 PM

“Justice”in 2020 looks a lot like 460 B.C. best expressed by Thrasymachus: Justice “is the opinion of the powerful.”
US Courts, especially the Supreme, act increasingly as a jock strap for oligarchy.
There is an answer. Self-mastery, through submitting, not to oligarchy’s commands, but the moral law of God.

ame
ame
Jul 5, 2020 7:16 PM

spitting image randy andy

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jul 5, 2020 5:44 PM

I have little interest in this. I think (whilst the topic is very real) it is just a distraction, from the very real evil going on now – all over most of the world, so I have been reading some of the comments, posted here over the last few weeks, and some of the comments are totally brilliant, and even better than the original articles headlined here, that they are commenting on.
 
Thank you Off-Guardian for providing this forum, when almost the entire rest of the world has gone mad. I don’t blame them, I was just completely amazed that both Caitlin Johnstone and Bernhard MOA got infected by this mind virus, and still can’t see it.
 
My current top of the pops poster here, though sometimes he annoys me a bit, is not Dungroanin, though he seems to be getting better, its wardropper, especially when he is under verbal attack, and verbally defending himself (or herself).
 
I also stumbled over this bloke in the Off_Guardian archives from a few days ago..he looks like a professional to me. I must admit I prefer Vernon Coleman’s voice, but this American looks quite a lot like me (much younger version).
 
“How Social Distancing Rules Are Created” 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-6HTKNgV0 
I wish I had the self confidence to do that.
 
Tony
 
 
 
 
 
 

sunset
sunset
Jul 5, 2020 6:33 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

The video is brilliant, but at the same time only effective with people for whom this form of propaganda has no effect- which is the whole issue. The mob is impacted by ‘the voice of authority’, and the message from that voice doesn’t matter, since the mob subjects it to NO critical analysis.
 
As for your ‘heroes’ having feet of clay- well I’m sorry. Game Theory at a time like this has to reveal many ‘deep’ Deep State agents. Go research East Germany, and the fantastic number of people revealed to have been working for the state when Germany finally re-united. By the way, it is people from EAST Germany who now control the re-unified Germany.

Bo Lox
Bo Lox
Jul 5, 2020 5:27 PM

The Elites always look after themselves.

Voz a0db
Voz a0db
Jul 5, 2020 4:13 PM

Clearly that “judge” is also part of the gang… They usually are!

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 5, 2020 3:50 PM

Destruction of evidence is now judicial procedure. I am unclear. Please explain further.

Voz a0db
Voz a0db
Jul 5, 2020 4:15 PM
Reply to  Aldous Hexley

They just do that when they need to PROTECT their Shepherds (Billionaires) and Owners (SRF)…

Reachable Spike
Reachable Spike
Jul 5, 2020 3:34 PM

I’m aware that what I’m about to say might not go over very well, but it needs to be said:
 
Epstein and company were reprehensible because they preyed on those particular teenage girls’ legitimate need for money and their awe and fear of power. But not because they had sex with adolescents.
 
Defining as ‘pedophilia’ sex with reproductively viable people has been a hysteria of the past few decades. It is not only backward looking, but it requires a denial of basic knowledge and understanding of the world. For whatever overall importance it might have to society, it is a form of tyranny over the mind, and there have been plenty of individuals oppressed by it, and it has mushroomed into other neo-Victorian injustices.
 
Teenagers are sexually active with each other; long lasting romances between teens and considerably older people have a long history; and some teenage girls have gleefully engaged in being “groupies” and haven’t expressed regret later. The percentage of humanity that has been born to teenage mothers throughout the expanse of time would be eye-opening.
 
It’s a grave injustice when young teachers are given long jail sentences for having romances with their students, and the enthusiasm of the mob in condoning those injustices is distressing.
 
Let the discussion return to its main focus, but this needs to be said.

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 5, 2020 3:48 PM

This needs more definition in order not to be dismissed as propaganda. Are you talking about 12 year olds or 19 year olds?

Reachable Spike
Reachable Spike
Jul 5, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  Aldous Hexley

I’m talking generally about high school age people, which where I come from is about 15 to 18 year old. How can this be propaganda? Propaganda for what?
 
 

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 5, 2020 7:00 PM

Your second paragraph. You are defending Epstein and company as sex traffickers with underage girls, which I believe is under 18 in the US?
 

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 5, 2020 6:59 PM
Reply to  Aldous Hexley

comment out of order; delete

Bo Lox
Bo Lox
Jul 5, 2020 5:16 PM

That’s rather odious and completely ignores that whilst a 12 year girl will start menstruating she isn’t yet mentally and psychologically mature to be able to make life and death decisions.

She will also be open to predators whom she openly trusts, such as teachers.

I’d go as far to say that you’re attempting to get this site targeted and taken down by the authorities by posting such degenerate views and defending illegal acts. Admin needs to deal with this immediately.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Jul 5, 2020 5:37 PM

Pimping/prostitution are illegal not matter what age the prostitutes are.

Mike Ellwood (Oxon, UK)
Mike Ellwood (Oxon, UK)
Jul 5, 2020 6:02 PM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

So call them pimps then.
 
Pedophilia is technically attraction (in adults) to pre-pubescent children, which according to one definition I’ve seen means children aged 13 or below, although of course the age of puberty varies with the individual. I’ve not taken that much interest, but as far as I know, the girls involved with Epstein and his friends were quite a bit older than 13, although may still have been under the age of consent in some US states (which apparently varies from 16 to 18), so anyone having sexual relations with these girls may have been committing a crime, but pedophilia would not have been an accurate description.
 
However, the media love to use the P word because it sells newspapers, attracts web clicks, and grabs attention on TV.
 
I agree with Tony Opmoc that this story is being used as a major distraction from what else is going on in the world that “they” don’t want us to notice.

Nikoz Coleman
Nikoz Coleman
Jul 6, 2020 4:09 AM

I think the correct term for adults attracted and having sexual relations with teens is called pedestry, something far more common in history than many realise, especially in roman Greek culture, however there is a big difference between a 16 year old and 20 year old, compared to a 13 year old and a 50 year old, and to lump both those relationships as if equitable, under the same label, really distorts how different they are. Even worse, when we label pedestry and pedaphilia as one thing then we label vastly different relations : must, I hope would agree any adult having sexual relations with a pre pubescent child is not only illegal but immoral, the abuse can range from mild acts to sever but there’s no debate amongst moral folk, however in pedestry there may be some they areas, what about a 15 year old girl with a 20 year old man considered illegal by some but for many cultures and historically many such relations occurred. And another problem is that if we label all these different relations as one, as if morally equivalent, it dilutes the true sadistic evil of an abominable act like the rape of a baby, as well as also demonising adults having relations with young adults some of whom may be physically and emotionally mature enough

Nemo Nomark
Nemo Nomark
Jul 6, 2020 7:18 PM
Reply to  Nikoz Coleman

Yes Nikoz, pederasty is the correct legal term, the latter half of the word derives from “eros”, sexual love/desire. The term paedophile, literally translated as “love of children”, appears to have become more popular, at least in Britain, in the 1970’s.
 
The Paedophile Information Exchange attempted to ride the coat tails of the 60’s sexual revolution by mounting a PR campaign to legalise the practice. It was even given air-time on the BBC, which I personally saw and was disgusted at. They even had a young female law student defending them, who later became a QC and then a prominent UK politician.
 
The public backlash saw them disappear from view in short order, but the re-framed term “paedophile” appears to have continued in use since then.
 

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 7, 2020 12:26 AM
Reply to  Nemo Nomark

Here is an idea: given what we know, and documented evidence,
let’s just not. Let us be careful and hesitant.
Let’s decide that what went before was the writing on the wall.
(not spaffing, writing) The different names and games are just that.
Be decent, and don’t fuck 15 year olds. It IS as easy as it sounds.

Nemo Nomark
Nemo Nomark
Jul 7, 2020 1:35 AM
Reply to  Mishko

Every normal, decent human being would agree with your concluding sentence, but rich pederasts like the members of the Epstein club believe they are entitled to have anything they want.
 
The sex offender’s hyper-sexual psychopathology, related to the lust for power of their psychopathy, drives them to seek ever more sexual gratification. They become de-sensitised to normal sexual conduct and look for excitement in more “exotic” sexual practices. This leads them on to even more perverted forms of conduct.
 
Their psychopathic profile also makes them see the subjects of their desires as mere objects, they have no empathy whatsoever. This is why run of the mill psychopathic pederasts will often murder their victims to avoid prosecution.
 
When you put extreme wealth into the equation it allows them to buy people as easily as any commodity purchase and insulates them from any normal legal penalties. This has been a facet of the conduct of the extremely wealthy and powerful for thousands of years. Power corrupts.
 
My post about the etymology of the words defining the legal offence was about the reframing that occurred half a century ago. The Paedophile Information Exchange was a front for some extremely well connected pederasts that attempted to get the law changed in their favour. They were well connected enough to get air time on the BBC. Their successful reframing of pederasty (sexual desire for children) as paedophilia (the love of children) was an early form of neuro-linguistic programming, but their attempt to change the law failed.
 
Returning to your conclusion, “Be decent, and don’t fuck 15 year olds. It IS as easy as it sounds.”, yes it is, but only for normal, healthy minded people. The psychopath, by definition, has a very sick mind. These people have no empathy and even when confronted with their crimes will feel no remorse whatsoever. The only thing that can be done with them is to imprison them for the rest of their lives, most psychologists will agree that they are impossible to reform.

gordon
gordon
Jul 5, 2020 6:21 PM

mr reacharound
no mention of israel in the spaghetti that was your word soup
 
the scam that is this case is the lie that the girls on mossad island little sait james where nearly adult
 
no mention of real children never to be found

paul
paul
Jul 5, 2020 7:06 PM
Reply to  gordon

No mention of blackmail operations, intelligence, satanic rituals, and much else besides.

paul
paul
Jul 5, 2020 6:58 PM

It also needs to be said that some of these girls were age 12-14.
Officialdom treated girls of that age in the UK who were victims of grooming gangs as willing prostitutes. We all know how that turned out.
This could be described as the Gary Glitter defence.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jul 5, 2020 7:01 PM

I was 5, as was my best mate Bernard Witney. His older sister Stephanie Witney was 7. I don’t think we did that much more than playing doctors and nurses, but I dream that we did. They then went off to Australia, as did my first love Susan Speakman…She was 18 months old when I met her, when I was 3.

I realised when I was 8 years old, all my Best Friends, who lived a few doors away, had left Oldham and gone to Australia

We never had bombs dropping on us, but we did use to play in bombed out mills from WWII in the walk home from our Primary School Corpus Christi

We didn’t know anything else, but we weren’t afraid of NAZI’s bombing us again.

I am now.

Tony

Baron
Baron
Jul 5, 2020 8:11 PM

What you say, Reachable Spike, is fine except for one thing, it’s illegal, the law says ‘no’ to having sex with a minor.

You want to legalise it, you take to the streets, shout as the BLM crowds do, lobby the lawmakers or whatever it takes, that’s the way to do it. Simply saying, well, it’s been going on for as long as anyone can remember isn’t good enough, murders have been going on for equally long time, we punish those who murder because the law says murder’s a capital crime, those indulging in it must be punished.

IANA
IANA
Jul 5, 2020 9:29 PM

You seem to be suggesting it is not reprehensible for rich powerful individuals to take advantage of procure young impressionable girls for sex?
 
Which I think is odious enough but it should also be pointed out that a lot of what Epstein and Maxwell were allegedly carrying out against these girls was according to Virginia Roberts and others testimonies rape.
 
Rape against 14 year old girls. Perhaps though you see a charge of rape as injustice also?

Howard
Howard
Jul 5, 2020 3:00 PM

Alan Dershowitz: hmmm – where have I heard that name before? Oh, that’s right: he’s the very one who said citizens have no right to refuse a vaccine; and the government has a perfect right to take hold of your arm and stick a needle in it.
 
And now he’s being accused of having sex with a minor. Well, I don’t know about you, but I’ll sure contribute to his defense! I’ll address my contribution to that parallel universe where accused pedophiles get to preach morality and legality to the rest of us.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Jul 5, 2020 5:38 PM
Reply to  Howard

Of course you’ve heard of Douche-owitz before. He was OJ’s laywer.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 4:08 AM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

Ah yes, remember OJ.Apparently his life mattered more than people realised.Or don’t they like to talk about that in the trendy ‘outrage circles’

gordon
gordon
Jul 5, 2020 2:22 PM

some many even trans folks can look good in the youth but the manly traits show through with age
testosterone or oestrogen can oly do so much
the higher level ashkanazim have many sons who become daughters
 
this one here certainly starting to look a little male.
 
the fat mossad agent robert ha ha maxwell born Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch certainly had all his sons and daughters working for the when israel is mighty projects.
 
 
this is all a bad play the boat Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch fell off was it not called lady ghislaine nice touch
 
all a poor script for the dumb goyim
 
 
mcalpine maxwell janner leon britain i here are in italy and israel all very happy
 
epstein and schimon elliot elliot simons isis head al bagdaddy baggage also had new faces cut in israel as did the white helmets guy that died in turkey
 
all a satan show
 
the rape the fraud theft must go on
the beatings the psy co tavistock trauma must continue
until covid vaccine 5g synergies are complete and the herd will begin to love
slavery of the smart cities
 
you can already see it smiling folks ordering drinks by phone when the barman is 2 feet away
2 feet not 2m
 
another janner mcalpine soon to be wrapped up
new face new home
job done
 
 
 
 

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 1:11 PM

Admin, getting a message “Input is too long” when saving an edited post. Is this a new restriction on characters. I see a countdown in the top right corner when writing a new post but no character indication when editing.

Bo Lox
Bo Lox
Jul 5, 2020 5:25 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Of course your input is too long as per below.

This place is meant to be for reasonable length, succinct comments, not a replacement for personal blogs.

Good to see OffG finally dealing with people hijacking their website and abusing their community.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Jul 5, 2020 9:16 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

We are experimenting with restricting comment length to deter the kind of troll posting that posts a 5,000 word comment with multiple links that effectively breaks the thread. The limit is set to 10,000 characters which ought to be more than enough for 99.9% of comments. How long was the comment in question?

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 2:56 AM
Reply to  Admin1

4,420 characters, as below. While editing that would have varied by 200 characters either way but I could not save as “Input is too long”. BTW I see limit of 8,000 characters as I type this.
 

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Jul 6, 2020 11:42 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Yes it is 8,000 not 10,000. Have you tried editing other comments? Does this happen every time?
 
Test

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 1:00 PM

Whitney Webb on the nexus of the Maxwell sisters and surveillance software, with which the Maxwell family has been involved for 40 years. Though many of the Maxwell products have been incorporated into Microsoft and other software used by the alphabet agencies, the Maxwells’ continuing prominence helps to provide cover for the broader surveillance project.
 
All of this is happening with the blessing of the CIA… Israel is just building the infrastructure. You have the former chief information officer of the CIA on the board of SEPIO SYSTEMS with an ex Mossad director.
 
Israel provides great cover for U.S. agencies like the CIA. No-one pays attention to the billionaires who are surveilling and manipulating the country. The media won’t discuss it for fear of being called anti-semitic.
 
Epstein put $1 million into CARBINE 911, chaired by Ehud Barrack. Michael Chertoff of DHS is there, with Christian Neilsen, former head of LAPD. They’re connected to Eric Prince. Another investor is Palantir which practices predictive policing… taking Promis software to another level. Palantir’s software has one label you can put on a person calling them ‘subversive’ so you can track their activities.*
 
This is the next generation 911 system. Carbine wants to take it from State level to Next Generation 911 that can get your location, and suck all the data from your phone into the Carbine NG911 database. From that they can decide if a person will be a future victim, perpetrator or close to the scene of a future crime https://www.911.gov/issue_nextgeneration911.html
 
DIAGNOSTIC ROBOTICS is being developed by a Microsoft alumnus whose software not only predicts future coronavirus outbreaks but also future riots. It uses pre-crime predictive programs created by Israel. It is being piloted in Rhode Island and India. The software was justified as Contact Tracing then was immediately used in the riots to track people.
 
Moneycircus asks: Were the BLM protests activated at the same time as the Co-vid lockdown in order to test and refine this software? The software makers boast it can be used to lockdown an entire city in one day.
 
Back to Whitney Webb: Diagnostic Robotics software refers to individuals as “a coronavirus patient at risk of exposure” – in other words the software defines everybody as suspect.
 
Meet the Israeli Intelligence-Linked Firm Using AI to Profile Americans and Guide US Lockdown Policy (Jul 2nd, 2020) http://thealtworld.com/whitney_webb/meet-the-israeli-intelligence-linked-firm-using-ai-to-profile-americans-and-guide-us-lockdown-policy
 
Software can also be used to cause chaos. The more divided the U.S. becomes, the more they can justify the imposition of order by force.
 
CYBEREASON, owned by SoftBank which has ties to MBS and Kushner and Unit 8200 (Israel’s NSA). One of these companies simulated attacks on November 3, 2020, election day – cars driving into polling stations, cyber attacks on self driving cars, cyber attacks on electrical and sewage systems.
 
They sell anti-virus software so their simulations have nothing to do with their product – they claim to be running the simulations “because we care”.
 
When you saw the Russiagate-fueled criticism of Kaspersky, claiming that because its founder is Russian the anti-virus giant should be banned from U.S. government, who took over the contracts? Cybereason.
 
NYC powergrid and hydro dams are currently being operated by Israeli state-owned military contractors. Any conflict of interest mebe?
 
Most people cannot see this as a danger because most people are locked into a red-blue, left-right paradigm even though it distracts from the fact that the Reps and Dems all support endless war, the Federal Reserve, the Israel lobby, and the only disagreements are over a handful of social issues like abortion and trans rights.
 
Few journalists are willing to move away from those social issues. When they do they risk being shut down, like the magazine Radar, after journalist Chris Ketchum covered Israeli espionage and Continuity of Government plans. One of the main shareholders in Radar was Jeffrey Epstein. https://thementalmilitia.net/2017/03/24/mindwar-background-last-roundup-christopher-ketcham/
 
 

 
01:22:00 #207 – Whitney Webb Returns | The Tim Dillon Show https://youtu.be/udH8rIaC33k?t=4945

Who D. Who
Who D. Who
Jul 5, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

That’s a wealth of information. Thank you.

paul
paul
Jul 5, 2020 7:20 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Anyone who wants to retain any semblance of confidentiality or privacy needs to avoid electronic communications completely. Use couriers, motorcycle messengers, simple codewords and the like. Electronic communications should be exploited to spread false and misleading information and lay false trials. All these systems should be regarded as hopelessly compromised and treated accordingly.
 
A prime reason for wartime Axis defeats was the penetration of their communications. In some instances, like the 1944 Ardennes offensive, much greater success and surprise were achieved by using messengers rather than radio nets.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 7:33 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Correction: Christopher Ketcham, author of This Land, does some great writing about the American West as well as about security topics.
 
http://www.christopherketcham.com/
The Israeli “art student” mysteryhttps://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

Arby
Arby
Jul 5, 2020 12:56 PM

Virginia Giuffre should disseminate all of her information as quickly and widely as she is able to. Corrupt authorities, including judges, are her enemy. They are the enemy of democracy (as in fairness and equality and justice). Where are judges in covid 1984?
 
Whitney Webb’s discussion of this with Ryan Cristian is good. She’s also spoken with Virginia at length and you can listen to those conversations on The Last American Vagabond.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 5, 2020 1:09 PM
Reply to  Arby

Giuffre – the focus on JUST her accusations is the false-flag upon which the whole thing will be swept away.

Just like they used the single accuser in the U.K. establishment paedophillia inquiry and are brushing the inquiry under the carpet.

Such is the way of false flags, limited hang outs and propaganda merchants across the FULL spectrum of media.

————

The only hope is that the local prosecutors in Florida and real investigative journalists and fearless lawyers and independent judges will use the US constitution and courts to get justice for the thousands of children who were and are abused daily.

1of7billion
1of7billion
Jul 5, 2020 12:46 PM

When we look at world events, it is very hard or possibly impossible to see anything truly objectively, because we all tend to have our own personal “axes to grind”, our own pet causes and loves and hates, mostly about groups or persons we would like to “point the finger at”, to blame, and what “causes” we want to promote, which we personally think are the most important, which may or may not be so to others or the majority.
 
e.g. the author here apparently sees the causes as about “justice for abused girls” or “the public interest” or perhaps “justice for all, not only elites”, or whatever.
 
I think it’s very easy to “knee jerk” react to these kinds of stories and events, and no doubt a lot of people are very motivated by their hate and envy or rich elite types like Miss (I haven’t seen any evidence she is or has been married, and have decided to drop the political correctness ordered “Ms”, alongside my refusal to wear a face mask) Maxwell, so she is “found guilty” by “the court of public opinion” merely for being (as far as one can see) a selfish rich elite “playgirl” type, though nobody really knows the truth about the sex allegations against her or anybody else involved, apart from the persons actually present at the real life events, obviously including herself.
 
And bear in mind, that like any other real life situation, those involved – whether herself or any of the allegedly abused girls/women – may well for various reasons (of self-interest, either for financial or other gain, or out of fear of threats against them) not be telling the truth, and that it may be more or less impossible for anybody else without actual first hand information of events spanning decades, that may not even be remembered properly or accurately, to know who (if anyone) is actually telling the truth or not.
 
Which if you think about that last paragraph seriously – especially the “decades old events that may not be remembered accurately” – renders all these so called “historical abuse cases” pretty much ridiculous, and never legally reliable in almost any case.
 
That is not of course to say that acts of abuse have not been carried out, and possibly even by the persons involved in or connected with this case.
 
But to attempt to prosecute and imprison these persons for alleged crimes they may have committed decades ago, which cannot now be reliably proven, is not only not in the public interest, as apart from anything else a vast waste of public money and court time, it’s a seriously threatening trend that has all kinds of other bad implications for legal justice in general, and especially the freedom and rights of men, as I will shortly further explain.
 
Just to focus on this specific case for the moment, much is made of this so called list of “VIP men” whom Miss Maxwell is alleged to have supplied girls to for sexual purposes, which the Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz wants disclosed to prove he is not on it, to clear his name, due to apparently allegations by the rather ironically first-named Virginia (Roberts) Giuffre that he (Professor Dershowitz) had done some sexual misconduct, possibly with her, I’m not entirely clear about that, and neither do I care.
 
I think it’s very important to read Mr Dershowitz’s Twitter page, to hear his side of the story, bearing in mind that Twitter statements are not under oath, so may or may not be true, just as Virginia (Roberts) Giuffre’s statements/accusations may or may not be true.
https://twitter.com/AlanDersh
 
But briefly anyway, on his Twitter page he says he never met her, and that she says so in her autobiography manuscript – verbatim from his 22 June 20 Twitter entry:
 
“A challenge to my false accuser. I challenge Virginia Giuffre to explain why, in her autobiographical manuscript, she acknowledges never having met me. I challenge Netflix to explain why they didn’t include this admission and others in their false series”
 
Which makes his claim sound convincing to me.
 
So prima facie (at first sight) it looks to me like this judge, Loretta Peska, has banned the use of so called evidence that might clear Mr Dershowitz’s name, not in order to protect the powerful people on the list necessarily, as of course is the typical conspiracy theory assumption, due to the (largely justified, but not necessarily helpful, unless wisely addressed, e.g. by increased taxation on the rich) resentment/hate of rich elites and their at least somewhat genuine (e.g. Rupert Murdoch) anti-democratic power, but rather because she (the judge) or others in the legal or political group she is a member of or affiliated with, have got it in for Mr Dershowitz; or at least, for persons trying to take the action he is doing – i.e. usually men trying to clear their name from possibly false accusations of sexual misconduct against them.
 
And my guess as to why they have got it in for Professor Dershowitz in particular (on reflection, I think it’s important to emphasize he’s a very big noise of a Harvard law professor, youngest ever professor or something at Harvard, so I’m not using his title to show “respect” for him, or omitting it to show lack of respect, just trying to be objective) is on account of this book and campaign he’s got against the “me too” movement.
 
“Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo” 
which is apparently according to the blurb “a New York Times list bestseller.”
 
So I think we (the public, and especially its men, and the up to several billion women worldwide who are mothers of male children or husbands/partners of men at risk of false prosecution) need to be extremely careful in our possibly envious, vengeful and bloodthirsty desire that badly behaved rich elites are hung up to dry for crimes they may or may not have committed, to see that we are not conned into allowing grossly unjust or unsafe convictions to take place, with flimsy or ultimately unprovable evidence, which amounts to often anonymous accusations “in the dark” which may very well be financially motivated, which thus “kangaroo court” style justice could then equally be applied to ourselves as boys or men or the boys or men who are children or partners or relatives of women.
 
Just briefly again, regarding the so called “evidence” in this case – “the list”: how exactly can this list – i.e. a piece of paper with names on it written by god knows who, god knows when – be regarded as any kind of evidence whatsoever?
How do we know that some greedy accuser or lawyer, or lawyer and accuser working in cahoots, have not simply decided to write names on a piece of paper of who they want to extort money out of, or see falsely imprisoned, just because they hate them, or get a kick out of taking rich people or celebrities down, have falsely imprisoned, and they they hold it up and say (shock horror) “Here is the evidence! Look, the list! He’s on the list! Guilty beyond any doubt!!!”?
 
Any one of us can write the names of 50 beautiful or handsome celebrities on a piece of paper and claim they had sex with us (e.g. at some concert or theatre performance we attended, which they were also at, or performing in, so we can verify they were in our city at the time) but it is not evidence!!!
 
So I am not remotely trying to suggest Professor Dershowitz is a great guy with “worthy” political aims (he seems to have a blind spot about injustice against Palestinians, as does President Trump), but there is extremely powerful motivation by the largely “PC” justice/legal system to bring him down, as he is perhaps the most powerful and influential opponent of the in my view mostly hysterical and hypocritical “me too” movement (which might be better termed the “me me me too” movement, as I’ll shortly justify), and has kept defending celebrity or rich men from these abuse claims, which may or may not be true.
 
So Mr/Professor Dershowitz is clearly an extremely painful thorn in the side of these PC lawyers and groups who want to remove all men they envy from positions of political power, by if need be false accusations of sexual abuse, as of course they tried to do with President Trump.
 
So men and wives/girlfriends/mothers etc of men/boys need to wake up to the fact the PC zealots who want to brand all men as guilty of sexual abuse unless somehow (which they try to make impossible, by as in this case, ordering destroyed or inadmissible, evidence which would show men innocent) able to prove innocence, are using this game of putting hated elites on trial, which much of the public just want to see punished for their eliteness alone, as per the French Revolution; so are effectively doing kangaroo court show trials and getting “the mob” to unwisely support them, just as apparently (if the gospels are true – I wasn’t there to my knowledge, so don’t know) it was the mob who called out for Jesus to be cruficied (manipulated to do so of course, by the powerful in their time, just as now) and instead call for the robber to be set free.
 
And in this case, it appears the manipulating robbers are the lawyers and the usually female false accusers, who stand to gain massively from almost all these false accusations against rich/powerful men.
 
e.g. I don’t know if it’s true, but Prof D also says on his Twitter page:
 
June 24 (verbatim):
 
“Another challenge to my false accuser. I challenge Giuffre to deny that she told her best friend that she was pressured into accusing me by her lawyers in an effort to obtain a billion dollar settlement from the owner of Victoria Secret.”
 
I have long suspected much of these allegations against men are engineered by lawyers who persuade (without too much difficulty, one suspects, once the massive possible financial gains/compensation/damages etc. are explained to them) girls/women “they have been abused/raped”, even if the acts were consenting.
 
We’ve had at least one major conviction overturned in the UK of a footballer, by a still anonymous woman, who got thousands in damages just from persons who named her (against the anonymity for female accusers law) on Twitter.
 
Another issue is this screaming by the media in particular of “under age girls”, and emotive words like “trafficking”; when firstly, “underage” is extremely variable around the world, such as consenting age of 13 to 15 in most of Europe; and secondly, it’s extremely likely a girl (of a certain morality) consents to effective prostitution (which again, is not illegal necessarily, if not “under age”) due to the lure of a glamorous lifestyle with powerful and rich persons.
 
As likewise, as with the “me too” movement, we have these endless list of actresses all crying (somehow, only 10, 20 or even 50 years later) “rape”, quite likely due to the “casting couch” culture, when in reality most probably consented, and they simply don’t want to admit to themselves or others they basically consentingly sold their body in exchange for fame and fortune (some even appeared in early pornography, as indeed even some very famous and talented male actors did), and now their egos (aka vanity) are such that they want to pretend it was not consenting when it usually was – or why did they simply not cry rape there and then, instead of 20 or 50 years later???
 
Hence my suggestion that the movement really should be called the “me me me too” movement, because it’s about obsessive and unashamed self-interest at both ends – first behaving like prostitutes to get fame and fortune as actresses (or indeed actors, there is a male casting couch too, far less mentioned) in movies, and at the other end, pretending they are moral paragons who never would have stooped to such shameful/shameless behaviour, and so “therefore” must have been raped, so try to rewrite history in their own minds.
 
As incidentally – and this is is what ordinary men need to be very concerned about, as should all the women who care about them – any drunken woman who attended a party or woke up in some guy’s flat after obviously having sex she can’t remember if she consented to or not, is also very tempted to rewrite history in her own mind, and decide it must have been rape, as “she would never do such a thing”, she is such a paragon of virtue, who just accidentally got drunk and would never have willingly (so she may like to believe) have gone back to this guy’s flat, so must have been lured by lies and then raped, etc.
 
So apparently women can’t give consent when “too drunk” (god only knows how you decide that, especially days, weeks or years after, when testing of alcohol levels is utterly impossible) but the issue of men “consenting” isn’t even an issue in the politically correct legal mind and “justice” system; so therefore any man who is with a woman (even wife) who has been drinking, is legally speaking a rapist if the woman decides to accuse him of that, or in fact, legally speaking, even if she doesn’t.
 
So the only way a man can now be sure (I mean, relatively sure, there isn’t any total certainty even if he never goes out, and even being dead won’t stop you getting “posthumously convicted”) he won’t get falsely imprisoned, is if he hides in his home or on a desert island from the first moment he becomes sexually capable, and never ever has anything to do with girls or women regardless of their age.
 
One suggests this effective mass conviction of men from birth is rather worse than the covid-19 lockdown, though in fact, we note exactly the same principle of “conviction/prosecution/imprisonment without any reliable evidence” is being applied on the public in general.
 
So no, we get carried away with and glory in the prosecution and ridiculous over the top SWAT team style arrest of Miss Maxwell at our peril.
 
Because the kind of spirit that is doing this, is the same one that guillotined anybody (not only royals/aristocrats) at random in the French revolution, according to the whim of whatever petty murderous despot managed to grab power, and knew they could whip up a “bloodthirsty mob” to “convict” and murder anybody they liked without any evidence whatsoever, but somebody possibly paid a few sou to make a false accusation, and then “Maxwell’s judicial hammer” comes down and they are sent off to have their heads chopped off.
 
We need to get out priorities right – it matters not what anybody may have done – we simply cannot start convicting anybody without proper and solid evidence, especially when accused of the most serious crimes like rape/murder/fraud etc, which can totally end their lives as they knew them, because exactly the same kangaroo court justice system that hides behind complicated pronouncements like this judge has made regarding the list, can be used against any of us.
 
If they can do it to the rich (regardless of whether they deserve it, as I said, taxing them would be the best punishment and most beneficial to the public), they can do it to any of us; and bear in mind also, if any of us ordinary mortals has any property (even your own home, which now could be worth a huge sum due to ridiculous property shortage and hyperinflation of property prices) we might well be robbed of it by such false accusations as compensation claims as well as imprisonment, if we let this kangaroo court justice continue.
 
So sadly, my conclusion, is this is not remotely about protecting girls/women (whose best protection from rape/abuse, as always throughout human history, is don’t take ridiculous risks like collapsing drunk on the floor at a party attended by numerous drunken male strangers, or getting involved with dodgy men generally, “bad boys”, as they say, to which it appears numerous women are “fatally attracted”) it’s about protecting men from false imprisonment and/or destruction of their jobs/careers by this nearly age old technique of false accusations of abuse of women – which it should be noted, are also extremely damaging to women themselves, as they therefore make less believed the genuine cases of rape, in which there is not even any question of consent.
 
Just one final thought as to the “vast waste of legal time/expense” I earlier alleged, as far as “the public interest” is concerned.
 
Firstly, these defamation suits in which rich people try to sting each other for money, or poor people try to extort rich people to prevent them being defamed by possible false accusations as with Professor Dershowitz (who you see, will be kicked out of his esteemed Harvard job, if he’s successfully smeared, which is likely the real agenda) are totally unavailable to poor people who can be falsely accused of anything by the authorities, police or media, and can’t get any legal aid to defend themselves of their reputations, and of course, that once again applies especially to men who may be accused in newspapers of sexual abuse and get named even if not convicted, unlike their accusers, who retain anonymity.
 
And secondly, as to “pieces of paper” as evidence, like this alleged list, the one that influences the lives of most of the ordinary population in a way that is most damaging to them is a document called a will.
 
That’s the piece of paper that decides who gets a deceased person’s often very expensive and now hard to get home, and money, as everyone knows; but as very few people know, it’s one of the most disputed and unreliable documents imaginable, and will fraud is rife.
 
But nobody is hardly aware of it, as it is so easily forged.
 
And astoundingly, for a document that huge sums of money and property changed hands based upon, in UK law even the signature on the will apparently is not of much significance, so can easily be forged, and will fraud is extremely difficult to overturn, and again only possible for wealthy or rich people to attempt to do, as only they can afford the legal fees.
So while the public gets frankly nonsense, like this “Maxwell show trial”, which at best gives the public a dubious semi-sadistic kick out of seeing a possibly sexually immoral rich woman get banged up in a sadistic prison with genuinely sick perverts and criminals (murderers, sadists, violent abusers, etc) in it, its actual rights that matter to its actual everyday existence like being free of false arrest, unjustified lockdowns and getting cheated out of their inheritance and so on, are being steamrollered over by the same people conducting the show trials. Which effectively just become an Orwellian “2 minute hate” ritual, blaming the rich person (you know, thousands of other rich elites still do the same or worse, and don’t and wont’ ever get convicted) for all society’s ills, when it is just an exercise in tokenism, a “bread and circuses” exercise to be fed as a titillating tid-bit to a manipulated public that is therefore distracted from the far more serious mass abuse of them and denial of equal legal and human and medical (e.g. rich people get good teeth all their life, poor people don’t get them on the NHS or elsewhere in the world) rights.
 
We make the world more just by taxing the rich properly and stopping them “buying our politicians”, not by imprisoning them on false accusations which might then well be made against us too in our own personal lives.
 

Don
Don
Jul 6, 2020 2:12 PM
Reply to  1of7billion

Good Lord, do you really expect us to read all that? How about condensing it to a short form that proves you know what the hell you’re talking about, and if anyone comments, elaborate?

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 12:01 PM

Whitney Webb’s take: The wealthy are not afraid because the Maxwell case is going to be protracted, secret, and buried under the insane news cycle of coronavirus, civil unrest and geopolitical tensions.
 
It is not going to be like last year. Ghislaine will have bail because the charges are so light. “Conspiracy to entice minors, and enticement of a minor, to travel to engage in illegal sex acts; conspiracy to transport minors, and transportation of a minor, with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, and two of perjury.”
 
She is only charged with enticing minors to travel. Why did they limit the years to 1994-97? Because in that period Bill Clinton, Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew were not in the orbit.
 
Trump will not be involved based on these charges – even though Trump and ex-wife Ivana were in Epstein’s orbit during this time frame with Ivana going out with Ghislaine to recruit models for Victoria’s Secret.
 
Back in the 1980s Epstein was doing shady financial activity for intelligence but also doing a lot of money laundering and real estate deals with Les Wexner – and that is Trump’s business. With Tom Barrack, Epstein and Trump were known as the Three Musketeers of New York nightlife. Much of the fallout between Trump and Epstein was over a property in Palm Beach which Trump stole from under Epstein’s nose. Epstein tried to get back at Trump by either setting him up with a minor or causing a scandal that would draw negative attention. That caused Trump to ban Epstein from Mar-a-Lago.
 
Another family is the Barr family. Even Bill Barr’s daughter is involved as a prosecutor who should be watched for conflicts of interest due to her father’s work for Iran Contra.
 
So the period to which Ghislaine’s charges relate have been chosen to avoid embarrassment to all.
 
From 01:06:00 #207 – Whitney Webb Returns | The Tim Dillon Show https://youtu.be/udH8rIaC33k?t=3936 
 

Edwige
Edwige
Jul 5, 2020 3:40 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Wasn’t it Barr’s father who gave Epstein his teaching job?

Aldous Hexley
Aldous Hexley
Jul 5, 2020 7:14 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Also, note interesting comments near the end of the interview: as with that the chaos (in the US for example) is deliberately being pushed and assisted, as in parallel to the fear-porn of the virus, toward “manufactured consent.” As with: “The more divided the people become, the more they can justify imposition by force.”
 
 

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Jul 5, 2020 11:18 AM

If there are any Qanons here, let me advise you not to expect anything earth-shaking to come out of Maxwell’s trial. The fact that she left the safety of France for New Hampshire to be arrested shows that a deal has already been struck. This trial, consequently, is going to be a very, very limited hang-out.
 
Note that, a few days before her arrest, the former US Attorney on the case, who had been pulling hard to get Prince Andrew to give an official deposition, had been dismissed and replaced already. That probably indicates that there was deal between Washington and London to hush up the Royal angle of the story. In exchange, Buckingham Palace likely offered to ‘deliver’ Maxwell to Washington in order to provide them with a face-saving exit, so long as they agreed to drop their deposition request against Prince Andrew. So it was likely the Royal Family itself which ordered Madame Maxwell to ‘take a hit for the team’.
 
I am also supremely skeptical that anything important will come out at the trial about anyone else of any significance: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Derswhewitz, et al. Maxwell will probably get just a few years in a minimum-security, all-female prison–definitely not hard time, and definitely better than what she deserves.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 5, 2020 11:11 AM

Hello! Eric Z resurfaces.
Somethings afoot. (?)

So the Epstein saga … it seems it’s a goodtime to bury it while the US goes through maximum CV burn. Where’s Bono?

Some amusing tidbits missing from our coverage in the U.K. ( these IDF supremos love a laugh apparently with their japes)

1. The hidey-hole – which isn’t really A hole – being 150 acre estate and massive home at the end of a long drive – is called ‘TUCKEDAWAY’ !

I kid you not –

It was bough just 7 months ago for a $1 million cash in the name of a company called Granite Realty !!

2. Born in France, raised in Britain, living in the US she has passports for all 3 ( any more??) , She has been jet-setting frequently including here to the U.K. , Japan, Qatar …15 international flights in 3 years. So not really in hiding.!!!

(Via the Miami Herald site who’s investigative journalism stopped it all going away years ago and got Epstein arrested)
————

It seems that the criminals, rapists, abusers, and their controllers have got their ducks in order to go for burial of the attention on the VVIP’s – Ghislane (is it really her?), Randy Andy & probably a fake accuser – get some heat and the bigger fish get to fly. Hundreds of victims get dumped on (it’s what’s happening in the U.K. with our paedo inquiry).

Eric’s story seems to show the route – it seems they think they can use the plea deal Epstein illegally got (under Mueller and DoJ at the time – yup that lot) to be extended to Maxwell and hence HRH and all these on the lists which almost certainly includes Bill Clinton.

And the hundreds of kids that got groomed, abused, raped or worse can get fucked (again and forever).

Willem
Willem
Jul 5, 2020 11:03 AM

I have been talking a lot here about the behavior of my colleagues, and not so much about my friends.

This has a reason, that is that I don’t like to talk about my friends because when I do, I distance myself from them in order to be able to describe them. For colleagues I don’t feel this problem as I have never seen them as ‘friends’ only as persons that I share rooms and conversations with as part of a job.

But for friends, this is different. In contrast to colleagues, I really like to see myself similar as to my friends: in terms of past, present and future. I like to mingle with my friends in a way where we can talk about our previous ‘adventures’, our current ‘troubles’ (mainly) in terms of work (in the absence of any other troubles that we don’t have as we are thus far extremely lucky although we see it as a God given privilege, but I digress) and our future in terms of our kids, parents, etc. In Dutch we call this ‘kneuterigheid’ of which I don’t know the exact exact English translation. The dictionary says provincial, small-town, even bourgeois, which comes close, yet is not precise. Whatever the exact translation, I don’t think there is any problem about being concerned about- and share sorrow and joy with your friends. And if all my conversations with friends could stick to ‘kneuterigheid’, I would be a happy man.

But it never does. ‘Reality’ always seeps in conversations, mostly to keep conversations going, and reality is often defined as the talk du jour. And the talk du jour of my friends is mainly what they read or watch in the daily press.

I hate it when I have such conversations with friends, where we talk about ‘racism’, ‘the refugee crisis’, ‘the Southern European debt problem (to us)’, Trump, ‘Russia’, ‘China’, ‘Epstein’, ‘Brexit’, ‘sexism’, ‘careerism’, ‘novichock’, sport, ‘doping’, the latest cultural revivals (in terms of books, films), etc. And the problem I have with such conversations is that my friends, in contrast to ‘kneuterigheid’, don’t share their own opinion but those of others as if it is their own opinion. It’s ruminated opinion, of food that IMO looks like dog food or even poisonous food.

My way of getting out of such conversations is by either being silent, try to make a joke closely related to the topic to get the conversation elsewhere, or decide that it’s time to go home. A previous option, often tried by me in the past, is to fiercely smoke or drink lots of alcohol, even though I do not really like to smoke or drink lots of alcohol.. Or (still used) to have a real conversation that is sometimes possible when you only talk with one friend at home, over coffee, even though most of those talks also don’t go into the deep, as conversations then (usually) get ‘tiring’ or ‘depressing’ according to my friends that I talk to, which is a way of them to silence me.

I am not a misogynist, and think that of all species humans are the most interesting, yet do agree that human intimacy often ends with the porcupine dilemma as explained by Schopenhauer.

Anyway, how to get this all related to Covid, and explaining why my friends ardently believe everything that is being told to them in the news, no matter how ludicrous? Well, I don’t think we talk about ratio but about state religion, of which the latter belief has been very kind to me and my friends (all academics) in the present and past. So why doubt it?

Now one interesting fact, a life experience, that happened to me and my friends at the same time is that we were all very close to a terrorist attack in 2002: the Balibombings, where a friend of mine died, and I nearly escaped death. And that experience had to be, somewhat placed, in our lives to able to cope with it.

There are different options to cope with such a life changing event, I found out, and the most often used tactic by my friends was the following: we discussed it for a couple of months vigorously, after which one by one dropped out as they were ‘sick and through with the story’. Any further discussion was taboo and my friends were happy to change the topic into something else: anything that was related with the topic du jour.

Hence, they didn’t change at all. And they still haven’t changed. They may be sick of the Covid narrative too by now or in the near future, and then will happily talk about the next topic du jour, like ‘racism’ as if Covid never existed!

The last friend I was able to talk with on the reason why the balibombings happened, before I had to succumb to long interior monologues, was with a friend who fully believed that the balibombings were explained by ‘a clash of civilizations’ (Samuel Huntington) and who, by the way, makes good money now as a fiscalist who makes it possible for the rich to legally escape the tax system while he at the same times denounces ‘the lazy Greeks’ who lended too much money back in 2008 and have all the financial misery done to themselves, etc. That is: he really believes this far-right shit and that belief pays him well: better than taboo! He’s not an unkind person though, he is just thoroughly brainwashed since taboo was not an option for him to cling to state religion. He needed something more and found it in Samuel Huntington et al.

Maybe my previous experience on the balibombings explains why those who decided to think for themselves (like us here) seem to be driven to the ‘far right’ as at least the ‘far right’ is able to think (although they are on the wrong track). For others thinking is just taboo.

What may be needed is a book that thoroughly denounces the current political system, although I am afraid that even that would not change the current system. The last writer who tried to do that in the Netherlands was Multatuli (in 1861) who, after publishing the Max Havelaar, where he thoroughly and unquestionably exposed the corrupt and murderous Dutch colonial system in the ‘East Indies’ that was kept on track by hypocrite Dutch ‘estate agents in coffee’, lamented on years end about the reading public whose judgment of the Max Havelaar was that it was ‘beautifully written’ by a ‘bad person’ and carried on as if that what happened in the East Indies had nothing to do with their lives.

Nothing will change political society until it is decided for us by those who have the power to change society. And the power of society doesn’t lay in the academics, high brows and other privileged groups of society who don’t have power, but just follow power. If power lays somewhere it is either by those who have all the money, or those who have all the people at their hand, of which the latter are endlessly dispersed by financial hardship, health issues (addiction to amongst others opioids), wars, and which results in divorce, fights, and social exclusion within and between families, so that most of those people cannot move forward as they wear sand backs on their feet, or are simply chained within their own environment.

Or maybe we should ask for extra-terrestrial intervention, or in the absence of extra-terrestrials, hope that some smart person comes along who invents something that can lead to a change in society as classical mechanics and chemistry were able to do in the years of enlightenment. But inventions may not be the way out either as history shows that society had to move through a Dickensonian period first after which all the marvels of those mechanical and chemical inventions were able to make society somewhat less burdensome for some wretched of the earth (but not for others) as they were ‘helped’ by the oligarchs.

Perhaps best is to just continue being kind to yourself, as I try to do, by being as kind as possible to others.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 5, 2020 11:18 AM
Reply to  Willem

I am not a misogynist

Do you mean misanthrope?

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
Jul 5, 2020 1:16 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

“I am not a misogynist, and think that of all species humans are the most interesting, yet do agree that human intimacy often ends with the porcupine dilemma as explained by Schopenhauer.”
 
Schopenhauer was a misogynist.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 5, 2020 1:34 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

That strikes me as a rather idiosyncratic judgement.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
Jul 5, 2020 1:47 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

lol Why is that not surprising coming from you, Steve? The guy who thought I didn’t understand that a moral compass is a metaphor, now thinks one of the most well-known misogynists in history is just a personal judgement on my part. You’re a clown 😀

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 5, 2020 2:09 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

What evidence can you cite to support the assertion that Schopenhauer was a misogynist?

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
Jul 5, 2020 2:22 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

This is the last time I’m going to engage you. You’re a waste of my not-so-valuable time.
 
From Arthur Schopenhauer’s essay entitled, “On Women”:
 
“The Nature Of Female
One needs only to see the way she is built to realize that woman is not intended for great mental or for great physical labor….
Women are suited to being the nurses and teachers of our earliest childhood precisely because they themselves are childish, silly and short-sighted, in a word big children, their whole lives long: a kind of intermediate stage between the child and the man, who is the actual human being, ‘man.’”
 
The entire essay is that stupid.
 
 
 

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 5, 2020 2:32 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

It seems strange to single out Schopenhauer as a misogynist on the basis of these views which were unexceptional at the time. Indeed, there are far more obviously misogynist people from that time and even closer to our own time. Nietzsche or Freud, for example, spring to mind. Singling out the merely conventional as an example of an extreme position seems idiosyncratic to say the least.

breweriana
breweriana
Jul 6, 2020 2:27 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

You asked for evidence.
She gave you evidence.
You lost the argument.
Get over yourself.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 2:57 PM
Reply to  breweriana

So you think of all the people in the world the exemplar is Schopenhauer. Well, frankly that seems idiosyncratic.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 5, 2020 12:21 PM
Reply to  Willem

“Now one interesting fact, a life experience, that happened to me and my friends at the same time is that we were all very close to a terrorist attack in 2002: the Balibombings, where a friend of mine died, and I nearly escaped death.”

I thought you were a bit spooky – thanks for the confirmation.
👻👻👻
😉

AlexHK
AlexHK
Jul 26, 2020 1:31 PM
Reply to  Willem

I wanted to say nothing about this. I hold strongly opposed views to many of those expressed – not least whether a polarised debate at this point helps or is fair. However, your thoughtful comments have spoiled my good intentions. It seems so easy to convince us these days that we are right and those who oppose are not just mistaken or misguided but evil and corrupt. That does not accord with the world I encounter when I leave the house every day.
It seems to me just as naive to believe serious allegations without evidence as it is to imagine they cannot be true – only much more unattractive/unfair. I’m sorry to say I see polarised opinions as not just unfair but credulous. It seems very dangerous to believe that (democrats/rich people/americans/judges/jews/black people/defence attorneys/Chinese – the list is literally endless) are all evil and corrupt and that all the the ones we have actually met are not, they must be the rare exception. I’d rather trust my own judgment than whoever was seeking to arose my fury. In any particular case they may be right and I may be wrong. But that’s the whole point. I’m not omniscient and if I’m going to make mistakes, I’d much rather treat evil as good than good as evil.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 10:41 AM

Perp walks and mugshots may also be ended – efforts have gained momentum since the George Floyd incident but giving helpful anonymity to elite criminals who tend to be the ones the press is interested in.
 
End jury trials and you have pretty good secrecy to cover for the misdeeds of the rich. Watch all countries follow in lockstep.
 
Limits on jury trials may be needed says LCJ – Jun 16th 2020 https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/limits-on-jury-trials-may-be-needed-says-lcj/5104649.article
Resetting the relationship between the press and the police – Jun 11th 2020 https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/police_reform_media_george_floyd.php
NYPD blasts proposal to end ‘perp walks’ – Jun 27th, 2019 https://nypost.com/2019/06/27/nypd-blasts-proposal-to-end-perp-walks/

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 5, 2020 12:22 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Barristers opposed it in the U.K.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 5, 2020 10:39 AM

I am puzzled by the author’s final (rhetorical) question. Litigation is not democratic. It is a contest between parties, observing the relevant legal rules, using evidence to prosecute and defend conflicting positions. It is not an election for public office or a referendum to decide public policy. The purpose is not democratic decision-making; the purpose is the administration of justice. And the judge’s order – that evidence be destroyed – is clearly contrary to the administration of justice. That should have been the conclusion, rather than the rhetorical non sequitur.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 10:24 AM

The Maxwell sisters are deeply embedded in Silicon Valley through companies like Chiliad, Magellan and Cyren, which stem from their father’s involvement with Promis.
 
Ghislaine’s twin sisters get little attention – Christine and Isabel, the latter got her anti-terror software into the alphabet agencies.
 
Excerpts here: https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb?lang=en
 
Full interview here: Whitney Webb Returns | The Tim Dillon Show (Jul 4th, 2020)


Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 11:10 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Do these rich people ever say, ‘Let’s not rape kids today. Let’s go on the boat and have brunch‘?
This sexual blackmail involving children goes back to the 1940s, possibly earlier. Abide by a certain set of rules and rape kids as much as you like.
 
They don’t live like normal people. Les Wexner’s friends spent hours watching Maria Farmer through pinhole cameras in his guest house. They have so much money but they are paranoid. That’s how mob families are. The Bronfmans are tied up in Nxivm. One of the Bronfman kids staged his own kidnapping in the 1980s to get more money out of his dad.
 
A lot of people in this Epstein orbit have a history of ties to organized crime and intelligence. There is always a cost of admission. Everybody’s got something on somebody else. Is this who’s running the planet? Great lines from Tim Dillon at 01:06:00

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 4:14 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Everyone has read about Epstein, Maxwell. Clinton and the rest. Now they’re reading that a high court judge has decided to take the side of the accused pre-trial and destroy anything that may incriminate her.Such accusations would frame her has a child procurer or worse.A judge doing this is acting on behalf of the court.The court represents the constitution of America.The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that children’s lives don’t matter.Where are their protesters ?or do the children have to be a different colour.

Dors
Dors
Jul 5, 2020 10:04 AM

July 2020. Judge orders ‘destruction’ of evidence in the Epstein case.
 
January 2021. The oligarchy behind the world’s central bank, the Fed, orders the removal of all alternative media and destruction of inconvenient evidence of their ongoing coup, under cover of a series of power blackouts worldwide. That helped further in the reduction of population in every country. The story promoted to the public : a massive solar storm…
 
 
 

kenny_the_pict
kenny_the_pict
Jul 5, 2020 9:51 AM

…in “their” “System of Law”, there is no crime if all of the “victims” are Goyim…and i am not saying that “they” are “Jews”…in my view, they are Satanic [Sabbattean] and believe themselves to be above “our” jurisdiction….and they can present in whichever form suits their purpose…reject their controlling “Religions”, starting with Money magick, and they will fall…just a little wish of mine….!!!

Dors
Dors
Jul 5, 2020 9:13 AM

Related to this, I watched an old film about a woman suspecting that her husband is being hypocritical with her, and might even have hidden motives. It was thrilling watching her intelligently gather evidence to present it to him, her friends, or at a court. Meanwhile, her husband had just intended to kill her, which he soon did.
 
Oh, but it wasn’t a movie. It was some of the best of the alternative media gathering evidence of Western elites’ hypocrisy.
 
Just what do they want to achieve… IRL.
 
That something more can be done is shown by an old man, Vernon Coleman. Near the end of his powers, he puts forward ideas on what to do, at home and in public. It may be even better when somebody like Rancourt asks for a readers’ input.

Thom
Thom
Jul 5, 2020 9:11 AM

Who knows whether any of the arrest story is even true? What is more interesting about the Maxwell arrest story is that is another sign the puppetmasters behind the coronavirus scam are panicking and throwing another bone to the plebs, who they clearly fear have seen through their lies. Their PR tactic all along seems to have been to create fake divisions among both ordinary people (Black Lives Matter etc) while creating a good cop v bad cop set-up among the elites (paedophiles v good guys, Cummings v Sedwill, Meghan v Kate etc).
It is quite possble the Maxwell arrest story is also some kind of attempt to blackmail and threaten members of the elite to keep in with the coronavirus narrative or face exposure. The Prince Andrew situation has always seemed like a blatant attempt by the US ‘deep state’ to pressure the UK monarchy – and therefore the whole British establishment – over Brexit and the coronavirus.

Haven
Haven
Jul 5, 2020 9:04 AM

The CIA have now got the ability to accuse anyone they like of child abuse, guilty or not, which was the whole point of Epstein project in the first place.
 
What do the CIA want from the Royals?, that they are blackmailing Prince Andrew? …….. HRH Queen Megan perhaps..? The first American royal dynasty ? All part of the ongoing CIA led far-right coup and the making of the new-age in the image of American Empire.

paul
paul
Jul 5, 2020 7:35 PM
Reply to  Haven

Randy Andy, arrogant and not very bright, to put it charitably, was probably useful to Epstein and Maxwell to attract blackmail targets to the paedo parties. He would attract social climbers of the kind you get particularly in the US. He could also confer bogus respectability on them.

Antonym
Antonym
Jul 5, 2020 6:56 AM

‘Only One of Us Is Telling the Truth.’ The Biggest Moments From Prince Andrew Accuser Virginia Giuffre’s BBC Interview https://time.com/5742379/virginia-giuffre-prince-andrew-bbc-interview/

Justitia (Lady Justice) was not cheating on her blindfold; some modern day copies like Preska , Baraitser and Arbuthnot keep one eye on the Five Eyes for clues.

Stop pretending that Anglo justice is better than world average: only the cover ups are. No more pretending & preaching!

Tutisicecream
Tutisicecream
Jul 5, 2020 4:36 AM

Looks like “the games afoot” to get Ghislaine “off the hook”. It’s always amazing to observe the lengths the establishment goes to to protect its criminality. In the UK Auntie Beeb and Brenda have always taken industrious measures the keep their linen clean. This international scandal will no doubt take the vanishing act to an all new level.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 5, 2020 9:45 AM
Reply to  Tutisicecream

Criminality is whence the establishment derives its wealth. As the saying goes, “you can ask me how I made every billion but the first.”
 
The amassing of great private wealth by fair and equitable means has always been the exception to the rule. New wealth should come, like discoveries, from outside the system and thus represent a challenge to the establishment.
 
Yet most great wealth is amassed from within the establishment; not new money but the redistribution of wealth: a government contract, a monopoly, or a sinecure, which gives the right to impose fees or charge for a stamp, like a notary but on a massive scale. See how a little deal with the U.S. Post Office makes Amazon possible. See how many new billionaires were incubated at DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. This is Oligarchical Collectivism as described by George Orwell in 1984, precisely the Corporatist Monopolies that threaten democracy today.
 
The friends of Ghislaine sit between these two poles: In private business but wrangling contracts with government agencies (her sisters: Chiliad, Magellan and Cyren, just as her father was involved with Promis). This is the world of stolen patents and software, private deals with three-letter agencies, and eliminating competition by force, sometimes with the use of politicians but more often with the use of lawyers and thugs. As Dan Moldea writes in Dark Victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA and the Hollywood Mob (1986) the role of politicians is mainly to shut down inquiries into the activities of lawyers and thugs.
 
Carrot meet stick: Ghislaine loves her toys and her boys.
The official muscle for the City of London/Tel Aviv/Wall St = Mi6/Mossad/CIA.
The unofficial muscle = thugs in or out of uniform aka Mi5/Shin Bet/FBI.
The contract muscle = the mafia/mafiya “Does what it says on the tin.”
 
Organized crime is sometimes defended by the most extreme fans of the free market as a form of primal capitalism. These defenders are not libertarians – they’re more likely to be found in the CIA and the Democrats than a Ron Paul meeting. The friends of organized crime are the free-wheeling billionaires and political donors.
 
The defence of wealth takes precedence in our society over its creation. Not in the libertarian sense of upholding property rights. More effort is spent protecting status, defending privilege than acquiring it. The Anglo system has been built over centuries.
 
You no longer have to marry your first cousin, survive blood feuds and post snipers on your roof. There are schools and secret societies, financial industries in which you can gamble with other people’s money, the academy where you can research with public funds yet privatize a patent, bureaucracies where you set yourself up as a private contractor, revolving doors between public status and private enrichment, and where your civil service job and pension are held open. There are multiple ways to magnify your privilege – if only you can get a foot in the door, which is guarded fiercely.
 
The door to privilege opens the way to networks that “give the lad a job”, to a fine web of mayors and magistrates, board members and Ancient Orders of the Fez, of honours and honorariums, and fellowships and chairmanships, that induce the ambitious to “play by the rules”.
 
Laws defend vested interest: statutes are written, and even more applied, to protect amassed wealth. The British libel laws are written in such a way that you cannot even allege that wealth has been acquired in less than a squeaky clean manner.
 
Don’t be fooled by the distinction between criminal and civil; both can serve political ends. You need no more clear example than the numerous cases in which the UK Master of The Rolls refused to correct injustice, blocked appeals, because to correct a wrong would sully the courts’ reputation for infallibility.
 
The legal system itself is often criminal but fiercely defended by the Executive and Judiciary. Look to the antics of the Department of Justice in politically-motivated investigations, liaising with alphabet agencies in Color Revolutions abroad (Ukraine), and quashing investigations into organized crime (David Margolis). At a state level there is rampant theft by lawyers of estates in collusion with the guardians of retirees. “A priest may steal your wife but a lawyer will steal your life.”
 
If judges should ever forget which side they’re on, as Ghislaine shows us, there ways of reminding them where their obligations lie.