OffGuardian is not “in denial”
A response to Eric Zuesse in Strategic Culture
Kit Knightly
Image source: The Bulletin
Eric Zuesse, our erstwhile contributor, recently wrote an article published on Strategic Culture titled “those in denial about coronavirus”. Throughout he refers to a “prominent libertarian site” and the editor he was communicating with. It suits him to be coy and keep it anonymous, but I don’t see that need.
OffGuardian is the “libertarian” site in question, and I am the editor with whom he was exchanging e-mails.
Needless to say, we reject his casting of us in these terms, and refute entirely the idea we are “in denial” or “populist” or that our position on the coronavirus “crisis” is in any way ideological.
Eric did not tell me, until the day before publication, that he intended to use our correspondence as the basis for an article, nor did he ask my permission to do so. While I do object to this unprofessional approach, I did not request he not publish but instead asked him to make three amendments:
- Include my refutation of the “libertarian” label.
- Put my request for an apology in its proper context – ie. a response to his accusing us of “deceiving our readers”.
- Most importantly, publish my entire response rather than quote-mining.
Sadly Eric made none of these changes and did not include the full un-edited correspondence in his piece. So, by way of a response, here is the actual chain of emails:
From: Eric Zuesse
Date: 22/08/2020
Does this cause you to question your view of coronavirus-policy?
From: Kit Knightly
Date: 22/08/2020
Eric,
I appreciate your willingness to engage on this topic, but your choice of source is poor. The logic is bad, and whole areas of policy are ignored.
Firstly, comparing Sweden only to Denmark and Norway is absurd. Sweden imposed no lockdown, yet fared far better than many countries which did so (Belgium, Netherlands, UK, Spain and Italy). This alone is a perfectly strong argument that lockdowns are totally ineffective for their stated aims.
Secondly, it at no point talks about deaths caused by lockdowns, which is a huge factor (accounting for nearly half the excess deaths in the UK).
Thirdly, it mentions GDP but doesn’t discuss that the economy is MORE than that. A suffering economy is not about money or finance, it is about well-being for the working class. Good wages, affordable rent and the freedom to run your own small business. All of which have been destroyed by the lockdown policy, which Sweden shows was (at best) pointless.
From: Eric Zuesse
Date: 22/08/2020
The Belgian policy-response was unclear, unfocused, and such a mess that nothing has even been generally been reported regarding their contact-tracing (which is such a crucial aspect of effective policy-response to the virus).
None of the countries with good results have achieved them via an expectation of ‘herd immunity’. No country is anywhere near the 70%-infection-rate that produces herd-immunity. It’s a myth; it’s a lie.
For example, though the imperialistic libertarian country United States warns travelers that the coronavirus risk is exceptionally high in Uganda, Uganda is actually one of the world’s lowest-risk coronavirus countries, and they acheived it by stringent policies, which is exactly what you reject. Whereas U.S. now has 17,549 cases per million, Uganda has 47. The country that has a 373 times higher percentage of its population infected, warns its suckers to stay away from the country that has 1/373rd of the risk.
Why is off-guardian feeding into this deception of its readers, instead of exposing it to them? Have you switched to being pro-imperialistic (pro-neoconservative, which is a variety of neoliberal or “libertarian”)? All of a sudden, the neoliberal countries, such as U.S., Brazil, and India, which are or have been the world’s worst on coronavirus-performance, are the ones to emulate? Why? Or else: which countries ARE the ones to emulate on this? Say it. Prove it. The statistical data by now are certainly sufficient to do this. Why don’t you do it, instead of deceive readers? Why do you deceive readers so that they would support, instead of condemn, the imperialistic U.S. Government’s alleging that Uganda is more coronavirus-dangerous than the U.S. itself is? It’s a lie, but how would your readers be able to know this?
I don’t get it. You seem stuck in your existing false beliefs. Please explain so that I will become able to understand. Right now, I don’t.
From: Kit Knightly
Date: 23/08/2020
Eric,
For starters: We have never expressed any support for the US or its Imperial policies in any way, shape or form.
Second, you seem to be suggesting that neo-conservatives and libertarians are the same, when they are totally different. We are not, and have never claimed to be, libertarians (we generally shun such hard-and-fast labelling), but I can see and agree with some libertarian stances on some issues. I see nothing wrong with this.
Third, the statistics speak for themselves – the virus is harmless to the vast majority of people, and in no way justifies any of the draconian or authoritarian laws being imposed opportunistically in many countries around the world (including the United States). A fatality rate of less than 1% (much less, according to some studies), and huge numbers of asymptomatic infections means this particular virus is not dangerous.
We have also noted, thanks to diligent scientific research (by us, and our contributing authors), that the lab work on this virus is suspect, the tests incredibly unreliable and the official statistics woefully inaccurate. In short, there is enough evidence to suggest the entire covid narrative is a minor disease being exaggerated to seize power on an almost global scale.
This is not an ideological position, but an opinion crafted from careful research and thorough analysis. We have posted all the evidence in the site, time and time again. It seems you are so invested in opposing the united states (and those you deem “right wing” or “libertarian” or other unhelpful labels) that you are allowing yourself to be deceived.
You are talking as if OffGuardian has changed, but we are where we have always been: speaking truth to power. We oppose authoritarianism, most especially when it’s backed by lies spread by the media. You are currently agreeing with the Guardian, the New York Post, CNN and the BBC. Does this not give you pause?
If you are truly supporting constant surveillance (contact tracing), mass house arrest (lockdown), government enforced limitations on what you can wear (mandatory masks), and the plunging of millions into poverty, then it is you who has changed positions. Not us.
We have never reported anything about Uganda, and I have no idea why you keep mentioning it. And we have NEVER “deceived” anyone, most especially our readers. I would appreciate it if you would retract that comment and apologise.
All the best
Kit
From: Eric Zuesse
Date: 23/08/2020
Kit,
I don’t think that you intentionally mislead readers, but that you are doing it by your selections of articles that support a now-disproven libertarian (i.e., laissez faire) approach to the coronavirus crisis.
Here is the revised version of my article (which will be published at Strategic Culture tomorrow):
[He included the full text of the article which you can read here.]
From: Kit Knightly
Date: 24/08/2020
Eric,
You are behaving astonishingly unprofessionally. You never once asked my permission to publish our private emails, nor did you inform me you intended to use them as the basis for an article.
I would be well within my rights to insist you do not publish this article, as it is a flagrant invasion of my privacy. However, as I consider myself an honest broker with nothing to hide I will not do so.
If you do insist on publishing private correspondence from someone who, until recently, considered you a friend and colleague, then have the decency not to quote mine or take words out of context. I did not ask you to apologise for accusing us of backing US imperialism, I asked you to apologise for saying we’re deceiving our readers. An accusation we take very seriously, and which has no fair basis.
Your article is also inaccurate to the point of dishonesty. You reference us as a “libertarian site” and repeatedly refer to our “libertarian ideology”, yet you have at your fingertips an email in which I repeatedly deny we are any such thing.
If you accuse somebody of something, it is basic journalistic practice to publish their response. To call us libertarians, then refuse to publish our denial of that label is incredibly bad journalism.
I will repeat, since you apparently either did not see or did not understand it the first time: OffGuardian is not a libertarian site, and its editors do not follow a libertarian ideology – or indeed any ideology.
We have a long and proud history of defending left wing leaders, and left wing policies, all around the world. But we will also always oppose authoritarianism in all its forms, whether it comes from the left or right.
We agree with the side that talks the most sense, and take up a position guided by the facts on a case-by-case basis. This is not about ideology, this is about reason. Our position on the covid19 “pandemic” is a reasoned one, not an ideological one.
You did not ask my permission, but I will grant it anyway. On the understanding you publish my entire response, including this follow up, rather than removing my words from their proper context. If you do not do so, I will be publishing this entire e-mail exchange in full on our site.
I will consider all future correspondence between us to be 100% private, unless I give my express permission otherwise.
Thank you
Kit
We consider this response, and the refutation of the “libertarian” label, very important. Not just in this specific case, but in all the disagreements we have had with many alt-news personalities who seek to use labels in place of arguments.
This is not to say that “libertarianism” is an amoral position, or even an insult in an of itself, in fact there are many reasonable and worthy positions from that school of thought.
But it is tiresome to be repeatedly misrepresented, especially when it is being done cynically as a rhetorical ploy to discredit your arguments without engaging in an actual debate.
OffGuardian has not changed, and will not change. But the world is changing around it, and many who should know better have decided that makes us the problem. We respectfully disagree.
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Zuesse’s reference to Sweden is extremely lazy. Discussion of Sweden here: https://zachfresa.com/2020/12/07/age-of-superstition/
This example of dishonesty, along with the the destruction it causes, is rampant from the low level home owner associations to K12 and college/university school committees to the highest political offices – it is taking root everywhere. I took notice of this cancer in Fall of 2016 and have watched its explosive, exponential growth since that time.
Quite simply, it is satanic; it is everywhere and it is prophetic.
For those who have ears to hear: get your spiritual affairs in order.
Another brainwashed idiot regurgitating their programming (or another shill slyly passing an arbitrary decision as a factual truth while discusssing a related topic)
We are dealing with the consequences of a massive education fail here: the majority of the population fails at basic reason and logic. I assume these things were deliberately removed from the Euro/AngloAmerican educational curricculums some time ago?
Off-G and Kit Knightly have been correct about the fake pandemic from the beginning. As Kit wrote in January, follow the money. Trillions of dollars later, we now can follow it to Wall Street, international banks, big-pharma and other global corporations, foundations, the military-industrial complex, well-connected individuals, an alphabet of government agencies, and many other special interests.
Little to no money has gone to the general public. Instead it is the ordinary people, working class, minorities, small businesses, the poor, and other disadvantaged people in the world who have been made the sacrificial lambs. The money is being squeezed out of the 99.9% and rising to the billionaire class.
Tens-of-millions of people all over the world are suffering and dying from the alleged “cure” for a disease that turns out to have killed very few people, is relatively mild, infects a small percentage of the population, and most so-called “cases” are asymptomatic. The official statistics on those who have died are highly inaccurate.
It is absurdly suspicious when people are told that they need a test to know whether or not they have an acute illness— most people know when they have the common cold, influenza, or an acute respiratory infection. Usually for an acute illness if a person does not have symptoms then they are not sick. It is different with chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer and kidney disease that a person may be asymptomatic for years before they discover they have a disease. Not usually so with acute diseases. The testing is ridiculous, unnecessary and inaccurate.
It is shameful that so many of those on the so-called left have fallen victim to a worldwide hoax perpetrated by elites with vested interests. Normally, journalists and writers in the “left” alternative media can be depended on to call out false flags and psy-ops by imperialists. There seems to be a trend that the gullible are old men scared to face the fact that they are mortal, and leftists with Trump Derangement Syndrome Extremis.
Full disclosure: I am an old man with pre-existing health conditions, and not a Trump supporter. The chances of my dying from an auto accident are at least more than 27 times higher than dying from Covid-19. I am not going to stop driving an auto, agree to involuntary quarantine when I am well, or wear a ridiculous face mask that serves no useful purpose.
Those responsible for the Covid-19 farce should be hunted down and charged with crimes against humanity.
I have studied the libertarian ideology for many decades. But that isn’t the issue here. It isn’t I that am the issue. The issue is the issue: Why hasn’t Off-Guardian responded to the fact that the nations which have the lowest rate (percentage) of infections per million inhabitants have all taken a very aggressive policy-response to control and prevent its spread? And why has Off-Guardian also failed to respond to the fact that the countries which have the highest rate of deaths per million inhabitants have taken the least-aggressive policy-responses to the virus? Though a very few nations have been exceptions to the almost 100% correlation between policy-aggressiveness on coronavirus-19 and effectiveness at containing the damages (including economic) from its spread (and Belarus is one such example), they are very few. Yet Off-Guardian simply ignores the best single information-tool about this entire matter, which is http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Why? Why does Off-Guardian simply ignore those very persuasive correlations? Is it because those correlations contradict your libertarian propaganda regarding coronavirus-policy?
More misdirection. The story starts with isolation of the alleged virus. Everything that presupposes the alleged virus is a distraction. Period.
Re: “why has Off-Guardian also failed to respond to the fact that the countries which have the highest rate of deaths per million inhabitants have taken the least-aggressive policy-responses to the virus?”
Utter bullshit. Japan and Taiwan both have amongst the lowest “Covid” mortality stats in the world. Neither implemented a lockdown. The same goes for Tanzania, Uruguay and even Belarus, which has only 72 deaths per million (deaths, not ‘cases’ are the relevant metric).
Eric’s utter dishonesty prevents him from even citing the worst country for “Covid” deaths, because it is also the country that has unquestionably applied the harshest lockdown in the world. that country is Peru:
https://www.anti-empire.com/the-worlds-toughest-lockdown-has-resulted-in-the-worlds-highest-covid-19-death-toll/
Good to know Eric Zuesse is just another shill to put on my ‘don’t bother reading’ list.
[…] On August 26, the CDC updated its site with a co-morbidities section, where they admit only about 6% of the reported deaths by Covid in the US in 2020 were due to Covid alone. The other 94% of deaths included an average of 2.6 other causes—although we still aren’t told which cause was primary. Most of these deaths were among the elderly, which means we can include one other co-morbidity: OLD AGE.
This reduces the death-by-Covid number from 185,000 to about 11,000. That is not a Covid pandemic, since 11,000 is a pretty small number for an 8-month period. In the same period, about 30,000 people died in car wrecks. So Covid is more than three times less dangerous than the old flu. […]
http://mileswmathis.com/logic.pdf
You are either a shill or unable to think for yourself :
Oh. please do tell us about fabricated numbers of deaths and rates of infections based on made up reports and PCR tests ..
You ‘re such an expert, like them, aren’t you? Go try that on facebook or reddit, it won’t wash here….
Are you saying that contact-tracing is NOT a crucial aspect of effective policy-response to the virus?
Zuesse clearly has no clue what libertarianism is; he is just throwing around a label. What does libertarianism have to do with handling a virus? That’s weird. It’s akin to saying like ‘you are riding you bicycle in an authoritarian style’ or ‘you are carrying your suitcase in a non-tyrannical way’. Utter nonsense.
In Amerika, beliefs in viruses are political and everything is about the emperor POTUS: you’re either with him or against him.
In Amerika, “socialism” is just nazism without the nationalism, and makes you gay, while being “liberal” means to be able to operate without too many restrictions.
Its an sad email correspondence where “The End justify the means” is used again and it will be used many times in our lifetimes since we are all allowed to become Mainstream.
Ken decided not to bend and stand straight.
After following Off Guardian for more than few months, it’s time to share my part…
Will start support Off Guardian with monthly donation.
Thanks for hard work
Nikola
just added contribution …. dammm Canadian Dollar is drooping vs Pund
Just another distraction. Cases of what? Deaths “of” what? Testing for what? Come on OFFG break open the testing debacle once and for all and stop with this useless drama.
Couldn’t agree more.
I am astonished someone, anyone, would define Off Guardian, deceptive or Libertarian pro Us Imperialism. Quick labeling its a classic ad hominem attack technique.
this virus as all viruses are still scientifically unprovable, not like bacteria or fungi which are microorganisms able to grow on their own pure culture.
virus are kind of “ dead” need an host to live, so medicine says, but still cant be proven. RNA sequences found are mostly found in our body independently from an illness or infection. Latest admission in a FOIA answer to the question of isolation by the UK Health Dept states clearly that Koch Postulates do not apply to viruses as they “ need an host to survive” and only molecular biology techniques can establish their existence.
Mr Zuess has a fixed ideology, not an open mind. The numbers speak for themselves. Go to worldometers.com and check on your own. It will struck as lightning to see that suicides from January to now is about the same amount as COVID deaths. ( deaths by a very liberal counting).just look and everyone can see the scam.
Of course, anyone who knows how to recognise and analyse psyops (dishearteningly not as many as should be) will be “in denial about coronavirus” because there is not a shred, not a scintilla, not an iota, not an inkling, not the merest whisper of the existence of any of:
— SARS-CoV-2
— COVID-19
— pandemic of a respiratory illness (although there is clear evidence of mass hypnosis).
From Day One it was obvious this alleged pandemic was a psyop with mention in the edited-by-intelligence-agents Wikipedia (see https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/07/wikipedia-a-disinformation-operation/) of Chinese cobras and many-banded kraits being reservoirs and the evidence for its being a psyop has only built steadily since with the emergence of clear scientific fraud, nonsense media stories about alleged patients in ICUs coughing all over the show and nonsense miracle recoveries from potato soup.
Swedish statistics compared to those of any other country, Belgium’s policy response, any country’s statistics, China, Wuhan lab, flattening of the curve, herd immunity, masks, social distancing, lockdowns, vaccinations, etc are all propaganda designed to engage people in discussion and disagreement all to smother the very simple truth:
There is no “special” virus.
In psyops what is done for real is only what is wanted for real and there are at least three reasons for this:
— often it would be impossible to do things for real, eg, chasing a virus around, real planes on 9/11 and killing the people in the buildings (way too many people involved to kill those poor people in the buildings).
— it is so not the MO. We must consider the type of operation. They’re psychological operations which are all about making people believe things. The perps take great pride in their psyops, it would be beneath their dignity to actually do things for real rather than making us believe them with their clever propaganda.
— control of the story is of utmost importance and it is much easier to control the story when it’s all about “story” rather than reality.
To really get a sense of this pandemic’s psyoppery it’s good to see the parallels with 9/11 whose 19th anniversary is fast approaching.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/911–covid-19-the-parallels.html
Generally agree but how we get from useless articles like this one, which is based on the presupposition a new virus exits, to this line of thought seems like a BIG mountain to scale. Is it even possible for the many emotional thinkers among us? To me this about who wants to wrestle with the powers trying to impose all this coroni BS and what they are prepared to do for that end.
You said it but why in God’s name is it so difficult? Why is the truth so taboo? I thought that when I finally cottoned on to staged death and injury on 9/11 that the response of vilification from others when I came out with it was to do with the taboos around death. In this case, there’s very little vilification (at least from those who have problems with the pandemic story and haven’t swallowed the story whole) and a lot more people are on board with “there is no virus” but still as OffG have published virtually nothing except Torsten Engelbrecht and Konstantin Demeter’s, COVID19 PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless, which more or less says there is no virus and certainly no other alternative media outlet has it’s obviously considered taboo to say there is no virus and the only reason I can think of is it is in the nature of psyops that the truth of the matter is always taboo no matter how relatively innocuous it may seem. It’s not as if we’re saying no one’s dying or getting ill, only that they’re getting ill and dying from what they always have and it’s readily admitted that COVID is being ascribed to illness and death in ways that are completely against protocol.
“why in God’s name is it so difficult?”
1) Cognitive dissonance is a MF
2) Complete ignorance of class struggle –people generally don’t see the world through this lens (see #3)
3) The education system
4) The behavioral psychology being deployed is pretty sophisticated
5) Big lies repeated often enough are tough to dismantle (propaganda works)
6) People (generally) except the world with which they are presented
7) Fear, dopamine and consumerism
I could go on but I am sure you are aware of all this. Although, I am not sure how high on the list that the truth being taboo is.
I’d say it’s three things mainly:
— The education system
— Cognitive dissonance
— Fear
The bigger the lie the more difficult it is to accommodate into our reality.
Giving it a bit of thought it may be worthwhile to distinguish symptoms from cause. For example, cognitive dissonance may be more accurately defined as a symptom, whereas, at the highest level, culture may be considered the cause. Also, I think being able to see the world through the lens of class (IE ruling class / proletariat class), especially in a historical context, is crucial. That may only be because I feel I have had some clarity on this subject of late. Obviously this ties into education which ties into culture, but, at any rate, I am not sure it’s possible to understand the world, at any depth, without the ability to see it through this lens.
Seems you are trying to convince yourself and others that off-g is not doing enough so that we go and get the *real truth* from your blog… but there are dozens of articles on off-g with as much truth as you have.. It’s not that hard to find them.
Apart from the best article on the subject I believe anywhere – which I link to often in preference to linking to my own page on the subject (and which I present a summary of on my own page) – Engelbrecht and Konstantin Demeter’s, COVID19 PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless, I don’t think OffG publishes useful stuff on COVID because all other articles I’ve seen (correct me if I’m wrong) avoid the essential truth, there is no virus. An OffG editor said in a comment that OffG doesn’t advocate for no virus. I replied with evidence showing there was no virus and asked why they didn’t advocate for no virus. I didn’t receive a response.
Truth can be published about the lack of efficacy of masks, for example, but it’s misleading truth because there is an implication there is a virus on which masks may or may not have an effect but it is irrelevant if there is no virus for masks to have an effect or not have an effect on. To my mind, it is the essential truth that is important and all the stuff on anomalies in the figures, masks, lockdown measures etc are a smokescreen over the essential truth: there is no virus. If there is no virus, everything else becomes moot.
Also, OffG have not published any articles saying that death and injury were staged on 9/11 (one of their editors at least emphatically does not believe that’s true) nor have they published any articles exposing Chelsea Manning as an intelligence asset and the Collateral Murder video as a fake – they probably don’t believe in those things either.
I sometimes link to my own website and other times to other people’s including OffG, it depends on what’s most relevant. My focus is psyops and OffG, quite rightly, publish about other things but I wouldn’t particularly link to articles on other subjects they publish simply because that is not my focus.
So this Zeusse took the right step of contacting the editor. However, he proceeded with writing what he clearly wanted to write in the first place, disregarding the Most Crucial Input. That is ‘fake honesty’ and an exercise in deception.
Not true. I had previously tried (via emails) to get Kit to respond to the coronavirus-numbers, but his responses ignored them (those numbers) and obsessed about which epidemiologists to trust and which to distrust. And I never gave him (nor ever gave anyone) reason to believe that I would not quote their words without naming or otherwise identifying them, except in cases where the communicant has told me that his communication with me is never to be quoted and is off the record and entirely confidential. I did not in my article identify whom I had been communicating with, nor at what website. Kit has chosen to make that information public. That was his choice, and he has the right to do that, but he does not have any right to allege that I ever deceived him, in any way. I did not.
However, what is worse is that he still has ignored the evidence that I have repeatedly tried to call to his attention, which I believes is determinative against the Off-Guardian’s advocacy for a libertarian policy-response to Covid-19. The only opportunity I have, at O-G, to present this contrary view, is right now and right here, only in the comments-section responding to his attacks against me. That’s pathetic.
Pathetic, is right! The whole useless distraction. Go for a therapy session together. When your ready come back with an article telling how the alleged virus has been isolated and proven to cause the alleged disease.
Whether you understand it or not you are promoting the denial of Corona virus caused SARS. That is clear both from your articles and from the comments made by readers and your overly defensive response to contrary opinion..
I am not convinced by much of the statistics surrounding the “pandemic” and I agree there is too much politics in the debate. However it is clear to me as a retired biochemist who worked in virology that the corona virus is becoming a significant issue for human health.
It makes no difference to me whether you or your readers believe this or not. I am not interested in attacking the opinions of others, I simply express my own. Maybe you should think about that if you want a genuinely useful website.
Okay, so you are not convinced and you consider yourself to be better qualified than the rest of us, so present us with a convincing argument that backs up your case. Oh, and by the way, assessment of risk requires statistics and data, not a qualification in biology.
Awaiting your convincing argument.
The corona virus was declared a significant issue for human health five months ago. Of course there has been debate about how significant – although, as far as I recall, no fundamental questioning of the danger of the virus. It was presumed to be deadly. But the logic of “better stay on the safe side” was always the main defense of the lockdown. Since the lethality of the virus is very much open to debate (or ought to be) the only thing we can say for sure is that the lock down itself has become a significant issue for human health – and indeed for the entire structuring of society itself.
My comment about corona virus becoming a significant issue for human health relates to our understanding, since 2002, that corona virus is more than just one of the causes of the common cold. Medical acknowledgement that SARS exists as a new form pneumonia began in 2002. The disease could well have been present before then but it was more likely to be a new development of the virus, or a zoonotic transfer of a strain which had not occurred before. SARS is not presumed to be deadly it has proven so. Its symptoms and development differ from other viral and bacterial pneumonia. Its development in lungs is far more rapid. It causes greater physical damage to the lining of the lungs. Depletion of blood oxygen levels is more severe. It is more likely to become a systemic infection.
The attitude of many people on this website, that a couple of news reporters and themselves can see the truth while thousands of doctors and scientists around the whole world have been fooled into believing in a scam disease, is arrogance at an extraordinary level. But if you are really that clever then give us the solution.
I do not support whole population lockdown as a disease control strategy. I do know the reason it was applied. That is as follows. Normally disease is controlled by quarantining the sick, not the healthy. In this case there was not a reliable test to identify who was sick and who was healthy. The disease was known to be widespread so therefore quarantine control had to be widely applied.
I do not agree with that strategy.
National border closures, tight quarantine control of suburbs and housing estates where infections were found, along with using face masks, all of which occurred in China, South Korea and Taiwan has proved a much more effective control strategy.
> But if you are really that clever then give us the solution.
Those of us who say that the ZOMG COVID-19!!! fear-mongering narrative that’s
been presented to us in lockstep from virtually every media outlet since early
March is utter bullshit are *not in the least* required as a result to provide a solution; a “solution” to a problem that many,many of us could see early on
was greatly overstated, with so-called “facts” that melted upon even a cursory
inspection..
“Body bags piled this high!.. refrigerated tractor-trailer morgues!… mass graves
abounding!..” all found to be utter bullshit, with anyone going against that
*false narrative* shouted down in an instant..
Not buying your “fair-minded” act in the least, sir; Thanks Very Much.
I apologise for being fair minded.
I have never seen this site claim it knows better than “thousands” of doctors etc. What I see here is a lot of expert opinion and DATA that challenges and in many cases disproves the mainstream narrative.
Let’s focus on the data right? and not on sophistic claims based on arguments from authority
You need to read more widely. Try the scientific publication sites. You will find you have to pay for the full articles.
I think the vast majority are at least suspicious about COVID. But their doubts won’t ever appear on the mainstream media which you have clearly bought into. And I note that you resort to the old “denialist” smear i.e. presupposition followed by reversal of the burden of proof.
I am suspicious of Covid19 data as you identify. But I do not question the reality of SARS caused by corona virus. This discussion began because of questions about the identification of virus strains. I make no apology for reversing the burden of proof. Try finding a scientific publication which claims to have proven SARS Corona Virus 2002 is identical to Covid19.
It’s not a question of whether this is identical to that, or of whether there truly is a virus in the first place, but of whether the lock down is justified i.e. whether this virus truly is the Biblical bubonic that the media make it out to be. All I can say is that the doomsday media line with its apocalyptic projections has always seemed downright weird to me – along with the “protest spin” they give it. So we can at least agree that there is ground for doubt.
I agree entirely with that view. There is no point in discussing the scientific debates about methodology etc when the real issue is the political response to Covid19.
The data I cannot find (so if anyone else can help please do) is whether or not deaths due to respiratory diseases have increased or decreased in 2019-2020. Some data has been published about total deaths dropping in some countries but that includes road accidents which are of course less frequent when everyone is locked up at home.
Approximately 4 million people world wide die of respiratory diseases in a normal year. If Covid19 was a significant public health issue relating to respiratory diseases then that figure should be trending toward 4.5 million by now. The question is whether Covid19 has added to deaths or has it displaced other infections.
John, as a person who works exclusively in legal matters – I don’t need to know the science. What I do know is real is the censorship. Censorship of this magnitude of thousands of extremely qualified medical persons, with no conflict of interest , versus the blatant conflict of interest in the vaccine promoters, is the canary in the coal mine. If the official narrative was strong it would encourage vigorous debate but instead it seeks to silence it. Why was the official narrative on HQ as a drug based on fraudulent studies (Lancet) or studies that overdosed patients and yet non that used the approach thousands of doctors say works.If it works as claimed – 39 cents a pill versus the vaccine industries windfall – etc… I could do this all day – and it is how a fraudulent position works. – I see it in legal matters , vagueness, motions to suppress evidence. Honesty is not afraid of transparency and a free exchange of ideas. It the disease a fraud – no – is the response – absolutely.even the CDC is getting cold feet. https://techstartups.com/2020/08/29/new-updated-data-from-cdc-now-shows-that-only-6-of-the-161392-reported-us-coronavirus-deaths-are-related-to-covid-19/?
fbclid=IwAR29S6UocU8fRgc3uAvWKxYbs9CFgtuUGJaEZ2HH4fqRKgzWQHQTgvPa41E
I agree, only one set of opinions is being presented.
Is this censorship?. Scientists seldom involve themselves in public debates and the people making decisions on what should be published do not have the qualifications required to decide on the merit of the publication. They pass the buck by choosing authors with credentials.
There needs to be more discussion on alternatives. A large part of the world had its initial response heavily influenced by the W.H.O. The most successful response was by Taiwan, a country excluded from the W.H.O.
In the west people see an over-bearing influence from drug companies but the scientific and medical developments in regions unaffected by those companies ( eg Russia and China ) have followed and even led a similar path.
I used to make vaccines. I do not think they are the answer to this problem. Think of influenza vaccines. This is a developing area of science. In the past a vaccine based on one virus strain would provide immunity against related strains. This does not work for several respiratory viruses.
Antiviral chemicals may be the answer. We will still be buying them from drug companies.
A scenario we have to include in our thinking is that humanity may have to accept, for some time to come, that we are again subject to infectious diseases, just as it was 80 years ago before mass vaccination and antibiotics.
You’re just another terrorised manchild asking to be told what to do.
There is no problem to solve , hence there is no solution. Everyone will die and most of us will die from some kind of health defect. Life coems with a lot of risk, and the more you try to make it safe the more you make it a prison.
The thousands of doctors are willingly deceived into the entire germ thory paradigm, and what is happening now is the inevitable result of that paranoid view of human health and the microbiome.
Any uncaring idiot who can use their brain like a computer can get a degree in medicine, and the money is VERY good.. Now take your ibuprofen and antibiotics like a good client, because they are not interested in healing or even treating, they are interesting in managing and selling… Germ theory sells a lot of drugs.
I did not expect that people today would argue against germ theory. So you have surprised me.
Early in my career I carried out one of the most distressing tests I have done which was a challenge test for a vaccine. The virus involved was an Ovine Pox virus which causes (sorry) the scabbymouth disease.
Half test animals were vaccinated and the other half not. On innoculation with the pox virus all the unvaccinated animals contracted the disease. None of the vaccinated animals got the disease. I thought that was a quite convincing example of germ theory. (20 sheep in each group).
You’re just another terrorised child asking to be told what to do.
There is no problem to solve , hence there is no solution. Everyone will die and most of us will die from some kind of health defect. Life coems with a lot of risk, and the more you try to make it safe the more you make it a prison.
The thousands of doctors are willingly deceived into the entire germ thory paradigm, and what is happening now is the inevitable result of that paranoid view of human health and the microbiome.
Any uncaring idiot who can use their brain like a computer can get a degree in medicine, and the money is VERY good.. Now take your ibuprofen and antibiotics like a good client, because they are not interested in healing or even treating, they are interesting in managing and selling… Germ theory sells a lot of drugs.
Another terrorised child asking to be told what to do.
There is no problem to solve , hence there is no solution. Everyone will die and most of us will die from some kind of health defect. Life coems with a lot of risk, and the more you try to make it safe the more you make it a prison.
The thousands of doctors are willingly deceived into the entire germ thory paradigm, and what is happening now is the inevitable result of that parano!d view of human health and the microbiome.
Any uncaring wannabe rich who can use their brain like a computer can get a degree in medicine, and the money is VERY good.. Now take your ibuprofen and antibiotics like a good client, because they are not interested in healing or even treating, they are interesting in managing and selling… Germ theory sells a lot of drugs.
John Manning: … “that the corona virus is becoming a significant issue for human health” what a cop-out. Even the drover’s dog could have told you – that even the common cold could fall into that category.
” the corona virus is becoming a significant issue for human health”
The coronavirus has been around forever- being officially discovered decades ago and variants of it circulate regularly around the globe- It’s gives us our seasonal colds- along with other viruses.
Cats have coronaviruses as well. Undoubtedly other animals do too
Making it questionable how it’s “becoming” (present tense) an issue for human health
The corona virus was first identified as a separate virus group in the 1960’s. Cannot remember the exact year. The comment about it “becoming” significant relates to its history during the last 18 years.
The common cold corona virus is very seldom a major health problem. The identification of SARS in 2002 made that corona strain the first one identified as commonly lethal. MERS corona in 2008 was more concerning because its fatality percentage grew from the 4% level of 2002 to more than 10%. The current Covid19 strain has a yet to be determined fatality factor but current estimates vary between 2 and 5%. The worrying development with Covid19 is that it has spread further and faster than either of 2 previous SARS epidemics. If the next corona epidemic has Covid19 contagion and MERS fatality factor then we would have a disease worse than the Asian Flu of 1968.
“The current Covid19 strain has a yet to be determined fatality factor but current estimates vary between 2 and 5%”
I’ve not seen figures that it’s fatality factor is as high as you are citing?
.
As for SARS- I recall the hysteria very well. Being not too far from Toronto, Ontario Canada- we were all going to die from it- but we didn’t.
The simplest calculation can be made by dividing world wide deaths by world wide infections. That gives approx 3%. The advantage of that approach is that the wide source of data and large numbers smooth out the errors from less reliable sources of data.
When people have reworked these figures and attempted to include asymptomatic infections the conclusions are in my opinion less reliable. The numbers of asymptomatic infections are estimates and introduce errors even greater than those that come from testing methods which are not necessarily accurate.
The articles I have read which reduce the fatality rate this way have generally being trying to claim that SARS Corona deaths are no more common that influenza deaths (about 0.8 – 1.0% of infections). They choose to ignore asymptomatic influenza infections.
SARS had very little impact on western european countries. However its impact in Taiwan was the reason they were the first to react to Chinese reports of a new corona virus outbreak. They were preparing for the epidemic in December 2019 and closed their borders to China in Jan 2020. Asian countries have generally had much better results controlling Covid19. I think that is because they had a much better appreciation of the significance of SARS.
Anecdote: Once upon a time when I was younger and even more gullible than now,
I reasoned thusly:
HIV has probably existed and wreaked havoc throughout human existence.
But only now, because of modern science, has this disease come to light
and may suitable treatment be found….
True story. And then later to find out all this was based on a crock of sh*t,
pure evil and malicious nonsense!
And now that evil homunculus Fauci is at it again!
Hi Mishko:
Interesting that Fauci is using the same playbook for covid as he did with AIDS.
I’ve listened to more then a few individuals talking about this subject.
Fauci is like the man of seasons, for all reasons, he’s all purpose when the pharma industry needs to make lots and lots of money
Let me pose this question (just to be cheeky). Do you believe in creation theory or do you accept evolution is real. If the latter then why would you not accept that viruses can evolve and we might actually see new ones.
During my early years of working in virology a new animal disease appeared in dogs caused by a virus which was given the name Parvo. The research at the time concluded it had evolved from a virus which infected cats, feline panleucopenia. I was never convinced of the evolution part of that argument. I thought it looked like a zoonotic transfer which selected a particular strain of panleucopenia. RNA/DNA analysis was not commonly available at the time so I had to concede to those who were better able to analyse this situation.
Gee, thanks for this passive aggressive drivel. I suppose you post conjecture in support of a specfic narrative (in this case the official one) in public discussion forums just cause. Pathetic.
Eric Zeusse:
As I’d mentioned in a previous comment the man is simply not credible. I took a stroll down memory lane.. More then a year ago and not the first time
Chossudovsky: NATO, the Middle East and the “defacto exit from NATO” of Turkey
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2019/07/chossudovsky-nato-middle-east-and.html
” Saker featured an article written by Eric Zuesse claiming that there were no Kurdish forces backed by the US in Manbij. (they had withdrawn) Eric Zuesse was mistaken in his claim and I’m not sure how he could have gotten such a significant bit of information so wrong? (I’m not sold on the work of Eric Zuesse and have said as much previously here at the blog) Considering the latest news had a Saudi minister visiting the PKK forces in Manbij, alongside the Americans. (What is al-Sabhan doing in Manbij? ) To my mind the reporting of the still occupying PKK Kurds as having withdrawn from Manbij is like claiming American forces have withdrawn from Syria as well ( U.S Forces Staying in Northern Syria INDEFINITELY, That sure hasn’t happened! ”
If Eric Zeusse can’t even get the most basic facts on Syria, regarding the US backed Kurd occupying forces and where they remain with their American benefactors, who are visiting back and forth with the Saudi’s his credibility on everything is seriously questionable
Personally, I”m glad Kit stood up to him.
Imagine labeling the OffGuardian as “populist”. Seems any label will do even if it doesn’t stick.
Whilst I don’t agree with making things too personal, I do agree that there’s nothing more important at the moment than the covid 1984 con. People talk about Brexit and things like the US presidential election (which probably won’t happen), but due to the purposeful crashing of the global economy such things are now totally irrelevant. We are heading into the greatest economic depression in human history.
Our world will never be the same again – the psychopaths have seen to that – as we head into a totally dystopian future. Those of an older generation will still remember a time when there was art and love and life, and all the things that make us human. Take it away, Jeff…
Amen to that. I’ve never been one to put the blinders on or obsess over one issue, but I can’t help but think it’s absurd to be focusing on any other political or sociological issue (in the context of fighting for the wellbeing and liberty of the common man and woman) while such a destructive and dreadful totalitarian agenda is being implemented writ large, across the entire friggin’ globe for goodness sake.
The American election in particular just seems like such a joke. Look at the candidates – one and the same everywhere it counts (although maybe that’s nothing new); pure charade.
Why would you even talk to this moron?
Libertarian is neo-con?
It’s the same routine the Counterpunch “folks” ran on the truth-telling CJ Hopkins: discourse police at work, again; setting the limits on permissible (per them!) debate.
Any guesses as to who’s really behind it?
😉
The truth is that some group has been roaming the world deliberately spreading the virus.
Why did China recover so quickly from her dose of the virus?
Because their lockdown kept the spreaders from spreading the virus.
And because the virus is not that contagious.
When the disease was seen to be failing in China they spread the virus to Iran and Italy.
Why did the whole continent of Africa escape the virus for so long?
Because the spreaders were spreading the virus elsewhere and only turned to Africa when everyone was questioning why Africa seemed immune.
The whole patchwork spread of the virus indicates that it has been deliberately spread by a small number of people.
http://www.preearth.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1184
There’s no virus. There’s no virus in Africa because they don’t have 5g.
There’s no 5G in Iran, one of the first countries to be affected by COVID, especially its politicians. The theory of a targeted virus seems quite plausible.
An interesting point researcher
“The truth is that some group has been roaming the world deliberately spreading the virus.”
I think it was the 12 monkeys….
They love to use “denial” or “denialist” to activate people’s unconscious images of shoveling babies into ovens.
So which term does one think Zeusse uses most often to “ad hominem” those who see THE SCAMDEMIC for what it is, CORPORATE FASCIST propaganda for the CORPORATE FASCIST PSYCHOPATHS in their continued crimes against humanity crime spree? Conspiracy Theorist or Denialist?
Eric who?
Strategic Culture,need i say more!!!
A pro kremlin propaganda site
And what do the Kremlin want to do?????
Yup,vaccinate their entire population with Putin’s very dangerous vaccine!!
So no wonder Zuesse,a shill for the kremlin,has taken issue with off guardian
I’m not expecting this to be published,but if in the off chance anyone does read it,then consider this,you’ve been played by the kremlin as useful idiots for ages,especially over Syria and Ukraine,but now you’ve become a thorn in their side, undermining confidence in the Kremlin isn’t a good thing
I’d stay safe if i were you lot at off guardian,as we know what happens to those who oppose the Kremlin 😜
Those who think that to be libertairian means you cannot be left wing might like to visit
politicalcompass.org
3rd
Unfortunately, the fascist nightmare in Victoria, Australia is a reality. Suicides up 700%. Horrifying Twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/BenMitchellSong/status/1298566214839459840?s=20
Suicided or Suicides?
That site is horrible to use but I would like to know about this, how can I just see the whole thing in chronological order without anything hidden, any tips? Thank you
You don’t need a Twitter account to read other people’s tweets (unless they’ve made their account private).
Click on the link and click on Ben Mitchell’s avatar and you’ll find the beginning of the thread that way.
Eric Zuesse needs to write this on the black board about a thousand times:
“They must find it difficult…
Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority.”
– Gerald Massey –
(May 29, 1828 – October 29, 1907)
I love Off-Guardian. It is my go to site daily. Keep doing what you do so well. Thanks.
I could have written after all, I warned you
https://off-guardian.org/2019/06/09/the-force-that-is-ending-freedom/#comment-81105
I got 16 minuses
Eric Zuesse and these 16 people have experience in supporting PSYOP’s
Can anyone name one of the “many reasonable and worthy positions of libertarianism”?
Libertarianism is an all-exclusive ethos that annihilates and blocks any emotional concern for the world – or even any other person – as totally irrational and logically unreasonable. From such identitarian obectivism: one’s sole concern is self-interest maximisation, and an instrumental pursuit of private property through the rational action of a competitive game theory (cf. behavioural economics).
Even in its ‘bounded’ or weaker version of an limited emotional investment in the Other – the democratic socialist version – is an abomination of humanity and Nature. So much so the techno-economic libertarianism completely erases and annihilates Nature. Except as its culture-centric value-stock and as a standing resource for individual – that is a libertarian commodity consumerist lifestyle – disposal as privatised property (cf. Battaile’s Accursed Share). Which is the sine qua non anthropogenic causation of the current geological period – the Misanthropocene.
Not millions, but billions, have been – and are still – in global poverty for centuries to build such a neo-Eurocentric integrated culturalism of core, semi-periphery, and periphery countries ….asymmetrically dissected by an ecological Apartheid of unequal access to resources, wealth, health, science; etc. By a globalised econometric Apartheid of emotional disinvestment for purposes of localised pursuit of private property. (cf. Mbembe: Necropolitics ….of a Europe that “seems to be gripped by an enormous desire for Apartheid”)
Such a privatised ‘freedom’ for the local business – damaged by Covid – is – and always has been – the privation of freedom and wealth for the global billions. Our wealth is their bad health …and worse. Our ‘aid’ is a disgrace and divestment of social accountability. Oh, and there are some animals out there somewhere. Not many: but there must be a few we have not condemned to death with such econometrically determined blatant disregard for lifestyles seemingly deemed less worthy of life than our own. And all biotic life seemingly deemed not worthy of life ….or even due consideration.
Which is also a well-documented social fact: crafted from careful research and thorough analysis in the fields of World Systems, Earth Systems, Biophysical Economics, Sustainability Science, Political Ecology and Post-Colonial academia ….to name just a few fields of research.
If you want to speak truth to power and resist authoritarianism: get a mirror. Or perhaps do some more thorough research on the real cultural Divide and global Apartheid. Europe is not the centre of the world. Nor is the neo-European Otherisation – of self and other; subject and object; and them and us – which is the globalised society of enmity which seems to be quite popular around here with some. But for the inversion of the them and us. We Otherise ‘them’ into global poverty.
The real global Divide is below us. It is up to us to heal the separation and suffering of centuries by eradicating global poverty by consuming less – a lot less. And redistributing more – a lot more. Toward the reparation of our Ecological Debt and toward co-equality of access and global enactment of really effective set of human rights. Beyond the individual rights to identity and private property and liberalised economic ‘freedom’ that is the privation of all life – unconsciously deemed less worthy of life – toward the erasure of the rest of the biosphere.
Co-equality and universality of freedom of life for all life – not just the Eurocentric HICs – is such a popular ecological theme around here. Must be due to all the anti-libertarian ideologies, eh?
I am not a Libertarian myself, but in fairness, not all of them are Objectivist psychopaths like Rand. The general desire for limited government (a ‘night-watchman state’ or whatever) is not necessarily incompatible with caring about others, if only as individuals.
A ‘minarchist’ state and a ‘maxarchist’ free market is not incompatible with caring for others. Are you sure, Seamus?
I said caring about, not caring for. Obviously, there can be no such thing as a limited welfare-state.
Bwahahahaha, now that made me laugh. Especially your over and out, classic…
One ‘reasonable and worthy position of Libertarianism’ is the simple fact of its anti-war position. One of the most steadfast and consistent voices opposing each and every war America has been waging since WWII was Ron Paul, kind of the godfather of libertarianism. He always espouses faith in the individual to be allowed to determine their own destinies without resorting to impeding the destinies of others, which is what war is all about. Without fail, he, and his son, Senator Rand Paul, have consistently opposed the terrible predilection of the American foreign policy to use military force to impose its will on other countries. In his speech supporting Trump, Rand Paul said that Trump promised to ‘end the endless wars’ and he has, indeed, fulfilled that promise. The war in Libya started with the approval of Obama, supposedly the ‘peace’ candidate. What a lie that turned out to be!
I’ll give you Rob Paul as a localised incidence of sanity. But libertarianism has a much more universal quality than just local occasions. The Declaration of Inalienable Rights was made by slave owners for slave owners and was exclusionary from the start. And it was sealed with two genocides, the privatisation of the West, and the extinction of the buffalo (all modern buffalo are cattle hybrids as far as I am aware).
The conceptual model of the holy trinity of Life, Liberty, and Private Property is so flawed, it is hard to believe it has any credence at all. It has been heavily deconstructed elsewhere: but for the record:
The holy trinity of natural rights is wholly wrong. The private pursuit of a permanent identity known through the accumulation of private property – mediated by money – has never made anyone happy. If we turn to alternative dialogues – such as Zen – permanent identity is the very root of misery. Applied globally: that would seem to be the case?
The conceptual flaw in the case of ‘liberty’ is the predication of a permanent individual itself. To my mind, libertarianism is just a rhetoric that justifies econometric infinitism and the privation of life to most of humanity and the deprivation of life for all the biosphere: to satisfy the insatiable appetites of the phantasms of greed of an inexistent ‘individual’. It is not a lifestyle that is compatible with our long term evolution. But I’m sure will not let that get in the way of the pursuit of ‘freedom’ through overconsumption?
Have you ever heard a libertarian say “let’s degrow and distribute wealth co-equally whilst living within the natural boundaries of the Earth System”?
Me neither.
“Rob Paul”? Doh!
All forms of extremism are problematic, even when rooted in humanitarian principles. For instance, the idea of fair distribution of wealth as encapsulated by the doctrine of communism articulated by Karl Marx has an intermediary process enabling this ‘redistribution’ to be accomplished called ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’. This interim measure was necessary to enable the transfer of wealth and property from hereditary ownership to the citizenry. A noble concept, but impracticable, as once people got established into positions of power, this ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’, they never voluntarily relinquished it back to the citizenry. In other words, this dictatorship became permanent, almost hereditary in nature, in itself, as the mantles of power were just juggled around amongst those at the top, never descending in a meaningful way to the ordinary people. The collapse of the Soviet Union perfectly exemplified the problematic nature of communism as an economic and ruling system.
Libertarianism, as a philosophy, is actually an expression of faith in the individuals, above all, to make the best decisions for themselves. Often ‘libertarians’ don’t even consider themselves as such, as with the case of Rand Paul, who is a member of the Republican party, though his father, Ron Paul, is kind of a figurehead of libertarianism. I personally like Ron Paul very much, a very honorable person. I especially love his unequivocal denunciation of war. When in Congress, he never voted even once for military intervention of any kind. But, even this principle probably doesn’t always hold true, as, no doubt, there are cases where military intervention could be the right thing to do. But, apparently, Ron Paul never encountered a justifiable reason to wage war, but that is not to say that it is never necessary, I suppose.
Actually, there probably is no such thing as a ‘perfect’ ideology. Better to approach each case on its own merit, rather than always having to translate our response in terms of pre-existing mental structures, in my view.
“Eurocentric”.
Hmm, thank God for the Europeans and their Renaissance and the Enlightenment.
The continent brought humanity out of the Dark Ages, abolished slavery, educated and lifted out of poverty an enormous number of people, raised life expectancy to unparalleled levels in history.
Other continents copied but still haven’t replicated it as well. Their citizens have streamed to Europe for generations in the hope of an amazing quality of life in comparison.
I presume you mean your comment ironically? In which case, very funny!
This Admin blocks “PART 2” (no link, no dirty word). Admin doesn’t talk to my “why”!
It wasn’t “blocked” – it was dropped in the pending folder and is now published.
👇
and please stop multi-posting your objections!
Why was it dropped into the pending folder? “Part 1” wsan’t:
Why was the undivided comnt, posted at 10:52 blocked for several hours?
Thanks for your anwer
I have no idea why it was dropped into the pending folder it’s an automated process and seems pretty random.
As to why it took “several hours” for your comment to appear – that is because I was the only admin on duty at the time and while I try to check the pending folder regularly I have other calls on my time and other things to do beyond making sure your comments don’t have to sit in purdah too long.
o.k.
One more word:
“I have no idea why it was dropped into the pending folder it’s an automated process and seems pretty random.”
I think it would be a good idea (“I have no idea“) for You to check this “automated process” and stop it!
It makes no sense.
Also: More and more our world is ruled by electronic machines. WE should control THEM – not the other way around.
Thanks!
PART 2
2) Also, please, call this Eric Zuesse an “Free speech denier”
This because I (an elder man living in the west – not in the former East Block), in my whole life never experienced such a brutal CENSORSHIP placed on us by governments, TV stations, newspapers and electronic media (Youtube, Facebook, Twitter and so on).
If Zuesse has another opinion of Covid19, this doesn’t give him the right to be silent in the face of this horrible CENSORSHIP!
If our view of Covid19 was the ruling opinion and if then those who believed in a Covid19 pandemic were then massively censored and were disappeared from TV, newspapers, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, You, Kit Knightly, like most of us, would have protested! Yes we would also protest in favour of them, although they are manipulated idiots!
Remember: “Freedom is always the freedom of DISSENTERS“!
But Eric Zuesse doesn’t even show the slightest objection to this CENSORSHIP that rules our days. This shows clearly, that Zuesse is an absolutely undemocratic and totalitarian minded person.
Brutal censorship might be better than the normal situation of collective consensus trance, which is far more subtly misleading. By pendling that word ‘undemocratic’ you merely show yourself to be a member of the totalitarian church of democracy, which might tolerate diversity of opinion, but nevertheless enforces its opinion by means of sheer quantity.
I like the cut of your jib, and would like to try living under the yoke
of brutal censorship, for let’s say, 3 months to begin with. =)
The alternative is the slowly creeping forth of a society already hyper-regulated, of a democracy which by now is the dictatorship of a thousand little dictators, on top of that structurally governed by olicarchy, and a slow creeping of inherent technological slavery, which is the product of the worship of technology of society at large.
If the cage becomes narrowed little by little, people get used to it, they grow into it, are born into it, they do not know better. Slaves never free themselves. The complaint in relationship to the Corona scare is the complaint of people whom are actually really slaves of this historically unprecedented hyper-regulated society, they find their sudden new cage to be highly uncomfortable, which might be the upbeat for a complete rethinking, except for those fools who only blame elites, engaging in no self-reflection.
(So I try again by dividing my comment in PART 1 and PART 2)
PART 1
Thanks, Kit Knightly!
And here my suggestion how to answer this Eric Zuesse:
1) When Zuesse calls You, Kit Knightly, insinuates You were a ‘Covid-denier’ (above: “in denial“) just call him back a “Influenza denier“. Because that is exactly what he is!
.Remember: For now about 100 years people, who died because of a respiratory illness, were always tested for INFLUENZA! But suddenly they deny that INFLUANZA A and INFLUENZA B exist at all!
Those (nearly exclusively) old people, who died this year (often in retirement homes) were only tested for SarsCov-2/Covid19!
I have little doubt that if those who had died had also(!) been tested for Influenza, they all would have been declared not only to have died “with SarsCov-2” but also “with Influenza A” or “with Influenza B“.
Yes, they tried to frighten us with this terrible “FLUE”-pandemic at the end of WW I. And they tried to convince us that we have the same catastrophe now. But then again suddenly “Influenza” does not exist for them any more.
Just for fun You, Kit Knightly, could vilify this Zuesse as an “gum bleeding denier”
How that?
Well, if they not only had stopped to test the dead for Influenza but also for Covid19 and had only tested them only for “gum bleeding” – government and MSM would have screamed into our ears the phrase “gum bleeding pandemic”! and, yes, “gum bleeding pandemic deniers”.
Flu Watch in which is under the Health Department in Canada. Reported that the flu had mysteriously and unaccountably disappeared in mid-March 2020, the earliest on record. In fact if you superimpose the flu graph over the subsequent Covid 19 graph they form one *typical* flu season graph. Interesting no?
The nature of ‘covid’ is not a biological disease but a mind-capture by dissociation.
I am grateful to OG for staying ‘open’.
Any of us may propagate deceits unawares but the intent to deceive has recognisable hallmarks. I smell the rat before I eat the meal.
Perhaps the willingness TO deceive is the investment in the fear THAT dictates such thinking as its mask or method.
I wrote this this morning in the context of the recognition that after the fact of reaction, we have already given consent, but without any awareness of the choice we made.
https://willingness-to-listen.blogspot.com/2020/08/after-fact-of-reaction-we-have-already.html
The one and only Sacha Stone. In no uncertain terms Sacha lays out what he thinks about the current apathy of The Australian people and the ruling, tyranny we re currently experiencing. Stop complying.
guy a prick clueless i recall sasha decade ago was into metaphysics then he jumped On the politicians alt right train now look at him
nice to see on you again rachal
‘’…..and those you deem “right wing” or “libertarian” or other unhelpful labels’’
Now the CIA want us to stop using 90% of the language. Labels are ALL we have, shoe, boot, hand, food, sky or Nazis. I don’t see the problem with labels, but the CIA seem to want to persuade me in one of their new campaigns that we shouldn’t use them.
It is a classic CIA word game, like the use of the term ‘Conspiracy theory’ or ‘Godwin’s law’ which was used to protect fascists like them, from being called out for what they are. Now we are not allowed to use the word ‘socialism’ or Nazi just in case people work what those words mean.
This is not quite right.
As commonly used, ‘labels’ mean something different from the ordinary words we use to describe objects. Calling me ‘left wing’ is a label, because I neither have wings, nor do I lean to the left when I walk 🙂 However, the fact that I am a human being does not require such a label.
I don’t know why you bothered with Zeusse in the first place. He’s been promiscuously sending his ravings to every journal left (and indeed sometimes right) of Attila the Hun for years now in the hope of finding a permanent home. His mental state has clearly been questionable from Day One.
Yup, welcome to the real world, where narratives is fluttering in the wind, narratives witch have meanings attached but is been abused to such an extent its become totally irrelevant, simply put.
The thing is, some people, like this Zuesse, cant handle critics, or any diviation, of course we have some issues where we agrees, like I do with my wife, but in others we disagrees, but this man, and the riddicilous use of narratives is for me, like farting in an hurricane, it simply isnt wurth to be exited about at all, liberalism, uh, like the AmeriTards use of socialism, witch again is raped to oblivion by them selfs because it is again an word where as if you ask them what do you mean, they just drool something about China, etc, any engaement in political debate is totaly meaningless.
And this Zuessse have as far I am conserned one majore fault, like a lot of others have, they cant handle critics, and I am, to take one ex. not doing this because of my political stand, I am not even shure about that when it comes to me, my self, but I am case oriented, and thats what I base everything I do on, like this Scamdemic, the moment one realises this indeed is something wurthy of diving into, the rest comes by it self, and to then be critizised because the one doing the critics associates that with political lines, is just for me an intellectual clap trap and I never bother to defend that at all, because for me its totally irrelevant, as it should be if you run an news site, objectivity is an dying art form, in an world where emotions are the driving force, like we say in Norway, when envjie is more an fundamental force than libido, we end up drooling nonsense and I usualy tries as far I can to avoid nonsense, and sticks to be case oriented.
Regarding the CONvid shit show, and take Sweden, and to compare that to Norway shows that they know nothing and probably havent been here at all, you cant compare them, its two videly different nations, Sweden is much more urban, while Norway is much less dense populated, smal citys, etc to vilages, while Sweden have Stockholm, witch alone is over an million people, etc, and on top of it, this years eh… virus scamdemic, have been less lethal than the previous years, the same goes to Norway, and some few years ago the death rate in Sweden and Norway was much higher, but it never got more than just an tiny article or few lines in the back pages of the same MSM whom this time went into become total retards.
But for me, so far OffG have been what I expected from an genuine news site, slam facts on the table and then take that and make articles from this facts, not prodject anything, because in the end, truth stands by it self, its the opositions, like this Zuesses problem if He cant handle that, I really dont give an rats ass about people, he maybe good in some areas but in this He have exposed him self as an dick, period.
The rest, the denial nonsense is just that, verbal diarea, bullshit and, prodjecting their predjuce onto us by inventing more nonsense just because of their own corruption of everything incl facts witch they cant handle som they invent more nonsense and uses the cheepest tricks in the book, guilts by associations witch they create out of thin air and spins from that, more nonsense.
Sorry about the lenght, but thats why I never debate political lines in an world where they in practise is deprived of its original meanings, the closes thing that comes to what I am polticaly, is even “worse”, I am an national socialist, period.
But hey, since we are civilised, do have an nice day and take care, and to Zuesse, face it, you lost this one, and should be so much of an adult that you admit that, we all make mistakes, it takes an wise man to aknowledge that and moves on, only an fool dont.
As the saying goes, only dead fishes floats along the stream.
peace
That you both appear to assume ‘US imperialism’ is real is so very Guardian, funny and outdated in the age of Trump and wu-flu. Has OG ever criticised communist China for the pandemic, I wonder?
there is no pandemic. get a clue.
At least 800 military bases worldwide, one about three kilometres from where I currently am in Germany.
A penchant for imposing sanctions and “making the economy scream” in other countries that it does not like or that stand up to it. If it can, it organises colour revolutions or outright coups, with or without its EU or other allies. Yes, US imperialism is a thing.
Lols, Knightly objects too much me thinks:
“… that neo-conservatives and libertarians are the same, when they are totally different. We are not, and have never claimed to be, libertarians (we generally shun such hard-and-fast labelling), but I can see and agree with some libertarian stances on some issues. I see nothing wrong with this.”
Or as Monty Pythons Life of Brian put it :
“ BRIAN: Are you the Judean People’s Front?
REG: Fuck off!
BRIAN: What?
REG: Judean People’s Front. We’re the People’s Front of Judea! Judean People’s Front. Cawk.
FRANCIS: Wankers.
BRIAN: Can I… join your group?
REG: No. Piss off.”
———————-
Anyway there is finally an answer to my query of what happened to Zuesse. It seems he went the way of Roddis and .. as it seems did one of the three O-Gee’s editors… never acknowledged here (yet?)
Talking of ‘’Journalism’ Kit , are you actually a journalist! With a NUJ membership or whatever makes a journo official? Is anyone at OGee? Just asking…
Eric and Phillip ought to realise that the Marxism creed they bought so long ago, was a designed ‘pig in a poke’ from before it was born under that banner. It is but the ‘other arm’ of the same body and head – the MONEY and their grand whiz to be its only controllers.
They are set up as part of the Punch and Judy act – Capitalists v Marxists – as the oldest bankers ply their ancient puppet mastery and keep the attention away from themselves.
Try and break through the looking glass chaps or you will always remain nice to be toyed with by the kitty Kats. 😜
You imply that one is only a ‘journalist’ if you are a member of a deep-state supporting organisation like the NUJ, an organisation that is not shouting out about peoples’ freedoms and the destruction of jobs and businesses.
If it is NUJ membership that qualifies you to tell the truth and write about the crimes of the deep state then why isn’t the BBC shouting out the truth to us, they are after all chock-a-block full of these deep-state NUJ members?
Maybe the NUJ people are the ones who are not really ‘journalists’. Maybe they are just authors spewing forth the message of the day as prescribed by the deep state?
That does not answer the question of whether OGee considers IT SELF as a journalistic endeavour or if it’s ‘editors’ are self considered journalists.
Indeed, it doesn’t answer that question but instead implies that the question is irrelevant.
When I read the headline of the Zuesse article, I was already suspicious, but thought I’d give it a go anyhow. I got through the first paragraph and stopped there. I was a bit surprised and likewise disappointed. I’ve had the same experience with Moon of Alabama and also with Automatic Earth, although I gave up on those two months ago. It’s a strange feeling.
Me too. Both MoA and AE used to be good sites but now question nothing. It reminds me of people who never question their doctors but just take what the doctor says as gospel as if doctors are somehow delivered, as perfect beings, from the heavens.
denial = heresy!
For anyone who believes the coronavirus narrative it is obviously impossible for them to be logical and virtual impossible for them to be honest when arguing about the issue. The simple and uncontested facts – average age of coronavirus related deaths over eighty, life expectancy under eighty – show that the virus is having zero effect on mortality, which immediately shows that the responses have been disproportionate and more harmful than the virus. Thus, anyone defending the coronavirus narrative has to resort to emotive rhetoric and eschew logic.
Like many of us, politicians are scientifically illiterate. That means they treat expert advice uncritically, like the ancients revered the Oracle of Delphi as a great authority producing infallible visions of the future. Neil Fergusson’s infamous model was much worse than fallible, of course, but this arrogant ‘expert’ has still utterly failed to apologise for his disastrous predictions, and his panicked thinking about wu-flu continues to dominate officialdom. However, his arrogance and ignorance of science are not the same as evil intent. Officialdom just doesn’t understand that science means endless scepticism and revision of established truth, not certain knowledge. Science keeps improving as scientists uncover false assumptions and conclusions. Authority must therefore adapt to new knowledge instead of denying it. Most importantly, science is not superior, godlike knowledge, it is actually “belief in the ignorance of experts” (Richard Feynman). If officials and experts could acknowledge this, government would be making much, much wiser decisions.
Blaming Ferguson simply does not work. The government received its scientific advice from SAGE, which did not recommend the introduction of the lockdown measures, and Ferguson was a member of SAGE at the time when the lockdown was announced (20/23 March 2020). The decision to introduce the lockdown measures was political.
Let’s hope CJ Hopkins and others don’t catch the bug Eric has. Have to say, think the best stuff on here has been Edward Curtain. You can tell whenever you read his stuff, he’s put his heart and soul into it.
My concerns about Mr Zuesse over the past few years are documented in the comments section. I hate to say “I told you so”, but I cannot resist. And I don’t intend it as an ad-hominem attack on him, simply the disparate rambling of his articles and a very particular, illogical view he possesses, in my humble opinion.
That said, I have personally commented upon OffGs almost total focus upon COVID this year and nothing much else, it appars to have become somewhat of an obsession at a time there’s so many other concerning events taking place. And I do agree on one point Zuesse made, that OffG is giving a totally contrarian view of COVID whilst it could be arguably more balanced.
In case you are interested, my personal view of COVID is that it does exist. There’s documented analysis of the virus that indicates splicing and mixing of some sequences may have occured; there are certainly odd characteristics about it. However, it’s nowhere near as serious as is being made out by some governments and international agencies.
I do wonder whether the original secrecy surrounding the Wuhan outbreak, coupled with an unprecedented total lockdown of a city of 11 million people, indicates that the authorities knew it was either a leak from the Wuhan lab, or else brought in by the US military in October when the Wuhan games were held.
The unprecedented draconian lockdowns elsewhere also suggest that “those in the know” believe there is something potentially very nasty or unpredictable about this potentially engineered virus, hence the ultra cautionary responses to it, and those responses also being in countries which are not associated with the Anglo Saxon Deep State nor influenced our Big Pharma and medical industry. Food for thought.
Fish and Chips
“That said, I have personally commented upon OffGs almost total focus upon COVID this year and nothing much else, it appars to have become somewhat of an obsession at a time there’s so many other concerning events taking place. And I do agree on one point Zuesse made, that OffG is giving a totally contrarian view of COVID whilst it could be arguably more balanced.”
Defined balanced?
Who deems what is balanced?
That’s a subjective label. And really nothing more
Balanced is neither honest or objective and is most often illusory.
Global Coups come and go – but why isn’t there more coverage of …?
Yes, the use of balanced as a mask of neutrality is perhaps a product of BBC thinking – or the use of comparative studies to set a mask of neutrality over the claim to judge them all from a superior abstracted position.
I feel for balance WITHIN life – with communication and life lived.
So when I met the covid PR I recognised it was an intent to unbalance the reader by means of fear and guilt and the call to war or defences.
I cannot see any balance within an upside down frame of reference.
But staying open to – and with – life rather than succumbing to fear and guilt, is the presence of mind in which to feel for where the balance points are.
Fish and Chips has a whole Internet to ‘surf’ for everything else – and OG is a blog that is free to publish or focus as it chooses – as we all are to read or not.
My sense of a disgruntled entitlement in the complaint may be an exaggeration for may just be a personal frustration.
The current balance of wealth and control is hardly ‘balanced’ and ‘covid’ is most certainly an example of a current ability to ‘own and control’ the world, and herd us into Gated ‘communities’ to ‘make us safe’.
I remain open to a better understanding than a control agenda running out of control, but in my own way hold a sense of balance for living this day well whatever the evils of the day thereof.
We are the person walking to the gallows and now we are being criticized for only thinking about one thing!
The Chineseauthorities certainly peddle the story that YS athletes brought the virus to Wuhan. That deflects attention away from the published activities of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and the massive store of deadly pathogens kept in dodgy freezers there.
House arrest, enforcement of the mask uniform: Tend to be distracting to the exclusion of everything else as the state is removing your freedom to do your own activities. Without the ability to plan and implement, what is the point of planing anything else? I want to go to the gym, oh shit, the government has stopped me going to the gym … kind of all comes back to being in a new, smaller government cage. You want us to forget that we keep on bumping into the bars of our new smaller cage: that day may come, but at the moment I am still willing to fight for my old larger cage.
A rat in a maze can go anywhere it likes….as long as it stays in the maze…..From The Handmaids Tale
Something to add on the subject of comparing Sweden to it’s neighbours is that the death and case count in Sweden is plummeting due to increasing levels of immunity. It is thus very unlikely to be hit by subsequent waves of infection. That is not the case with Norway, Denmark and Finland, who have all relied instead upon suppressing the virus. They have very little immunity and could well suffer more deaths in the future. Focusing purely on intial deaths is missing the big picture.
Many experts advised that achieving herd immunity was paramount. But Boris got scared by arrogant idiots like Neil Fergusson and his marvellous model, and bottled out of the Swedish approach. Fauci used the same model to urge lockdown in the US too, and the accompanying wave of fear also forced Trump to comply. Boris and his advisors have to admit their incompetence if they want to survive the slow onslaught of truth about lockdowns and the correct treatment for Wu-flu (ie HCQ, which they banned in the UK because of big pharma’s control of the fear narrative, production of fraudulent research, and many ‘independent’ experts and civil service cronies).
To use a modern term “he got owned”. He’s dribbling out nonsense for G-d knows what reason.
Modern?
🤣🤣
To a dinosaur maybe.
Well…..I have been dead for over a millenium.
Probably for the usual reason…
Good response guys and keep your chin up. We see attacks like this for what they are and no reasonable person could agree with the slurs.
So if not libertarian, what are they…..are they Alt right?
You are a labelling machine!
Zuesse used to be a pretty reliable opponent of Deepstate, and a sharp analyst. Now he’s joined the pack.
Everyone has a weak point. Deepstate tries a new fake emergency every year, aiming to hit everyone’s weak point sooner or later.
This is what Deepstate founder Lincoln meant when he said “you can fool some.” He wasn’t warning us about Deepstate, he was advising future Deepstates on proper strategy.
Classic double think.
Lincoln founded the deep state? Now there’s a bold theory, or are you peddling a conspiracy? Good evidence might help convince… So in your view, is Trump the enemy of the deep state, or just its obedient puppet? I guess Trump haters must assume the second option in order to keep hating.
Good god ! Is Eric Zeusse a heavy drinker by any chance ? What a dislocated ramble. Covid19 is surely affecting his brain cells .
A wonderful response by OffG to the bad journalism on display in this entire episode.
Instead of asking the mainstream & other popular alternative media on how they were decieving their readers, that writer is accusing OffG of it. I became an OffG reader in Mar-Apr precisely because I was being deceived by the mainstream/alternative media. If not for OffG I would be worse off in my understanding of the whole ‘covid19’ nonsense.
Also, if that writer was genuinely concerned about authoritarian regimes such as India (since he mentions India in his article), he would realised how the entire global fakery around ‘covid19’ and ‘sarscov2’ has actually given the authoritarian regime in India several more areas of domination, control and manipulation of the basic rights of the people of India.
I live in India and can vouch for the fact that the ‘covid19’ nonsense has made things worse for the rule of law and for the constitutional rights of the people. Earlier, the pro-government agents had already penetrated the highest levels of judiciary and hijacked the entire institution of the Supreme Court of India. The ‘covid19’ nonsense has made pro-government judges in the Supreme Court of India more un-accountable, because now every legitimate expecation of fundamental rights can be brushed under the so-called ‘public health’ carpet, and denied to the people.
Ordinary Indians can vote out failed and fraudulent leaders. It’s the world’s largest democracy, in which potential leaders must promise to serve the national interest. If they fail, they are out. Perhaps by ‘authoritarian’ you mean communist dictatorships like China, where no pleb has any power at all, and will go to a concentration camp if he dares criticise eternal Emperor Xi and his gang of tyrants.
It’s just a claim that India is the largest ‘democracy’.
Elections by digital voting machines in India are easily rigged by the PTB (Indian and global and including CIA) to install their most-favored puppet politicians.
But due to enormous diversity of income, language, caste, religion and due to chaotic conditions, authoritarianism operates differently here than elsewhere.
The scourge of large scale authoritarianism started in India in 2014.
This chap, Eric Zuesse, is trapped in the logic that says; bad people only lie, this is not true. What is remarkable about the alt-right is that they, with their ‘friends in the deep state, have engineered themselves, unusually, on the side of truth, usurping the left who normally occupy the freedom, equality and liberty positions. Clearly the deep state has realized that Fascism needed more virtue to signal.
So as I keep saying I am very uncomfortable with the fascists and racist who I stand next too in my opposition to this Covid false flag, but isn’t making the far right the champions of the truth part of this whole scam?
As the UK regime add yet more restrictions, again by statutory instrument, outlawing gatherings of more than 30 people from today
https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1299032126256492547
it is interesting to watch the new alliances of people as the left/right paradigm diminishes – and yes, it is uncomfortable at times – but, this is war and there is a lot to play for – another point of interest is that it appears the whole argument for the covid laws is based on the notion that we all accept there is a ‘ worldwide pandemic’ (that is their ‘risk assessment’) – therefore the ‘law’ is necessary – if , as the evidence provides, there’s actually no pandemic then the law truly is an ass and not legitimate – i’m pleased OG has come out about this
If you champion the far-right who are calling out this Covid scam, or the Establishment who are implementing the scam, you lose, nobody is on our side, NOBODY. They have all exits covered, this fascist coup is going to happen from the fake-left or the far-right, either way the US will create this fascist coup as they do in all their controlled states. The CIA have turned their attention from South America and are now practicing their art in all the dependent and Anglo-sphere countries, including NZ and Australia, as Europe demonstrates some opposition.
The “far-right” is an MSM concoction, it encompasses everybody who does not agree with the lockdowns, so encompases every point of view from left to right. You are helping the MSM’s campaign by repeating their labels.
In any case, if you judge everybody and write them off for their beliefs, thereby losing what is of interest to you, then how have you won? There is nothing wrong with having allies with whom you do not agree on everything – dig deep and you will find a lot of your friends have views you disagree with – but you have to prioritize what is most important to you and your loved ones. If something such as “racism” takes priority over the freedom of your family then your values are screwed.
Germany as well on Aug 27 : no mass gatherings allowed ! Private gatherings the Merkel did not get through the regional minestry conference , there was too much resistance and the numbers invited are left now to the good sense of a responsible citizwn
I’m sure brave, violent BLM warriors will enjoy immunity from the new restrictions.
A significant tactic of the deep state is “divide and conquer.” The left-right paradigm is largely false and is being used to keep us all divided against them via deception. After all, it is the lefties or the righties who are causing all the problems, right? In reality the deep state often controls the narrative on both sides in order to maintain that division. Just as they often cause the “problem” such as false flags and likely even false pandemics, in order to provide their desired solution. So, as Mr. Knightly rightly points out, the use of labels is largely very unproductive.
Rubbishy, it is not false, the left is real and a powerful force that the CIA have been working for decades to irradiate. You are part of their fake narrative. There is nothing fake about equality and freedom and opposition to exploitation.
I wholly agree that the CIA, which actually works for the those behind the scenes who use it to exercise their quest for global control, is at work here. No, I am not a part of it. At the same time they use one of the wings for a certain narrative, they use another wing for an opposing narrative. Neither narratives are accurate, or at least fully accurate, but they have operatives working all sides. Divide and conquer is part of their intent. Keeping a bunch of lies going to distract from the truth is another part of their tactic. They work through the media, among other ways, to sow division and confusion and to present their “solution” in Operation Mockingbird style gone viral. I am very much in favor of equality and freedom and very much opposed to exploitation. But what I find is that most folks have chosen one wing or another and point fingers at an opposing wing rather than the true problems and culprits. Certainly people from the various political and philosophical wings have become extremist and false in their viewpoints, but many are there because of deception perpetrated by the deep state through the CIA’s manipulation and control of the media and events. Thus using labels is usually meaningless. Now, if one uses terms like “technocrat” or “globalist” there is, I think, more meaning in the usage of terms at this point.
I don’t about a Left/Right paradigm. But ‘their’ Left/Right scam is clear. Their Left is also their Right. Their Right is also their Left. Some details are different in order to deceive and, perhaps, just as a matter of reflecting taste. But on major issues, the US Left and Right are the same. Chris may have swalled the covid Kool-Aid, but he made the point to Abby Martin that the bipartisan nature of US politics is not talked about much. There is no disagreement between the Dems and Repubs on major issues. (And the gangsters in both parties know who the boss is. He’s the Transnational Capitalist Class.) Left is just a label, like green. So is Right. Those labels refer to realities, even if we disagree about what the realities are that are indicated by the labels. I don’t consider Left to be a moral equivalent of Right, personally. But, unless I define Left as I see it, others might think I mean something entirely different than what I mean when I say Left.
In agreement.
Perhaps you also think alt-right racists like evil Orange Man created covid19? And the concentration camps with 3m Chinese Muslims, Tibetans and other undesirables mean Yellow Man Good?
“…if you believe that your ordinary political opponents are not merely mistaken, but are evil, you have ceased to do politics and begun to do religion.”
Joseph Bottum https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/14/wokeness-old-religion-in-new-bottle/
They’d be pretty damned big wouldn’t they, those concentration camps? Got a link to any US satellite photos of them, I mean surely the US would publish them if they had them?
thank you Off-Guardian for keeping it sane. Here in Poland it is like through the looking glass.
Poland is now a great ally of the USA. But I see very few posters at OffG able to free themselves from the very traditional Guardian-leftist bigotry that all Americans are the evil spawn of Satan. When I remind posters that the US and the UK were the first societies in human history to outlaw slavery and spread human rights and freedoms around the world, they typically choke with indignation. How mass-murdering Islamist and communist dictators must value their very useful Graun spawn defenders.