US Terrorism 101: The Bert Sacks Story
Edward Curtin
Audio Version New Feature!
Since the annual US Veterans Day holiday honoring military veterans was just two weeks ago, it seems more than appropriate to suggest the creation of a US Victims Day, just as in a similar effort at truth in labeling, the Defense Department should be renamed the Offensive War Department.
For the victims of American terrorism far outnumber the American soldiers who have died in its wars, although I consider most US veterans to be victims also, having been propagandized from birth to buy the glory of war, not the truth that it’s a racket that serves the interests of the ruling class.
Such wars, carried out with bombs, drones, mercenaries, and troops, or by economic embargoes and sanctions, are by their nature acts of terrorism.
This is so whether we are talking about the mass fire bombings of Japanese and German cities during WW II, the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the carpet bombings and the agent orange dropped on Vietnam, the depleted uranium on Iraq, the use of terrorist surrogates everywhere, the economic sanctions on Cuba, Iran, Syria, etc.
The list is endless and ongoing. All actions aimed at causing massive death and damage to civilians.
According to US law (6 USCS § 101), terrorism is defined as:
- an act that is dangerous to human life or potentially destructive of critical infrastructure or key resources;
- is a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State or other subdivision of the United States;
- and appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.
By any reasonable interpretation of the law, the United Sates is a terrorist state.
Let me tell you about Bert Sacks.
Perhaps you’ve heard of him.
His experiences with the US government regarding terrorism tell an illuminating story of conscience and hope. It is a story of how one person can awaken others to recognize and admit the truth that the US is guilty of crimes against humanity, even when one is unable to stop the carnage. It is a tale of witness, and how such witness is contagious.
In November 1997 Sacks led a delegation to Iraq to deliver desperately needed medicines ( $40,000 worth, all donated) that were denied into the country because of US/UN economic sanctions.
For such an act of human solidarity, he was later fined $10,000 by the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). Sacks had refused to ask for a license to travel to Iraq or to subsequently pay the fine for compelling reasons connected to his non-violent Gandhian philosophy, which teaches that non-cooperation with evil is as much an obligation as cooperation with good.
For years previously, Sacks had been learning, as would have anyone who was following the news, that the American sanctions under George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton following the illegal and unjust Gulf War, had been aimed at crippling the Iraqi infrastructure upon which all civilian life depended.
Iraq had been devastated by the US war of aggression, and a great deal of its infrastructure, especially electricity and therefore water purification systems, had already been destroyed. Clinton kept up the sanctions and the bombing in support of Bush’s war intentions.
So much for differences between Republicans and Democrats! Regular Iraqis were suffering terribly. All this was being done in the name of punishing Saddam Hussein in order to oust him from power, the same Hussein whom the U. S. had supported in Iraq’s war with Iran by assisting him with chemical and biological weapons.
As Sacks later (2011) wrote in his declaration to the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington when he sued OFAC [my emphasis]:
Weeks after the end of the Gulf War, on March 22, 1991, I read a New York Times front- page story covering the UN report by Martti Ahtisaari on the devastating, ‘near- apocalyptic conditions’ in Iraq after the Gulf War. The report said, ‘famine and epidemic [were imminent] if massive life-supporting needs are not rapidly met. The long summer… is weeks away. Time is short.’ The same article explained US policy this way: ‘[By] making life uncomfortable for the Iraqi people, [sanctions] will eventually encourage them to remove President Saddam Hussein from power.’ This sentence has stayed with me for twenty years. It says to me that my government – by inflicting suffering and death on Iraqi civilians – hoped to overthrow President Saddam Hussein, and that we would simply call it “making life uncomfortable.”
The years to follow the first war against Iraq revealed what that Orwellian phrase really meant.
In 1994 Sacks read a survey on health conditions of Iraqi children in The New England Journal of Medicine that said:
These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf War and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991.”
And that was just the beginning. For the number of dead Iraqi children [and adults] kept piling up as a result of “making life uncomfortable.”
Anton Chekov’s story “Gooseberries” pops into my mind:
Everything is quiet and peaceful, and nothing protests but mute statistics: so many people gone out of their minds, so many gallons of vodka drunk,so man y children dead from malnutrition…And this order of things is evidently necessary; evidently the happy man only feels at ease because the unhappy bear their burdens in silence, and without that silence happiness would be impossible. It’s a case of general hypnotism. There ought to be behind the door of every happy, contented man someone standing with a hammer continually reminding him with a tap that there are unhappy people; that however happy he may be, life will show him her laws sooner or later, trouble will come for him — disease, poverty, losses, and no one will see or hear, just as now he neither sees nor hears others.
Sacks has long been that man with a gentle hammer, far from happy, comfortable, or contented in what he was learning. In 1996 he watched the infamous CBS 60 Minutes interview of Madeleine Albright by Leslie Stahl who had recently returned from Iraq.
Albright was then the US Ambassador to the United Nations and soon to be the Secretary of State. Stahl, in reference to how the sanctions had already killed 500,000 Iraqi children, asked her, “Is the price worth it?” – Albright blithely answered, “The price is worth it.”
In April 1997, a New England Journal of Medicine editorial said that [my emphasis]:
Iraq is an even more disastrous example of war against the public health […] The destruction of the country’s power plants had brought its entire system of water purification and distribution to a halt, leading to epidemics of cholera, typhoid fever, and gastroenteritis, particularly among children. Mortality rates doubled or tripled among children admitted to hospitals in Baghdad and Basra…”
The evidence had accumulated since 1991 that the US had purposely targeted Iraqi civilians and especially very young children and had therefore killed them as an act or war. This was clearly genocide.
In its 1999 news release, UNICEF announced:
if the substantial reduction in child mortality throughout Iraq during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998.”
The British journalist Robert Fisk called this intentional destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure “biological warfare”: “The ultimate nature of the 1991 Gulf War for Iraqi civilians now became clear. Bomb now: die later.”
In his declaration to the court, Sacks wrote that the Centers for Disease Control, in warning about potential terrorist biological attacks on the US, clearly lists attacks on water supplies as terrorism and biological warfare:
Water safety threats (such as Vibrio cholerae and Cryptosporidium parvum): Cholera is an acute bacterial disease characterized in its severe form by sudden onset, profuse painless watery stools, nausea and vomiting early in the course of illness, and, in untreated cases, rapid dehydration, acidosis, circulatory collapse, hypoglycemia in children, and renal failure. Transmission occurs through ingestion of food or water contaminated directly or indirectly with feces or vomitus of infected persons.
By January 1997, as a result of such statements and those of US military and government officials and reports in medical journals and media, Sacks concluded that the United States government was guilty of the crime of international terrorism against the civilian population of Iraq. And being a man of conscience, he therefore proceeded to lead a delegation to Iraq to alleviate suffering, even while knowing it was a drop in the bucket.
It is important to emphasize that the US government knew full well that its intentional destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure would result in massive death and suffering of civilians. Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney said of such destruction that “If I had to do it over again, I would do exactly the same thing.”
All the deaths that followed were done as part of an effort at regime change – to force Hussein out of office, something finally accomplished by the George W. Bush administration with their lies about weapons of mass destruction and their 2003 war against Iraq that killed between 1-2 million more Iraqis.
The recent accolades heaped on Colin Powell, who as Secretary of State consciously lied at the UN and who led the first war against Iraq – two major war crimes – should be a reminder of how unapologetic US leaders are for their atrocities. I would go so far as to say they revel in their ability to commit them.
Because he called them out on this by doing what all journalists and writers should do, they have pursued and caged Julian Assange as if he were a wild dog who walked into their celebratory dinner party.
In this 1991 US Defense Intelligence Agency document, “Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,” you can read how these people think. And read Thomas Merton’s poem “Chant to be Used in Processions around a Site With Furnaces,” and don’t skip its last three lines and you can grasp the bureaucratic mind at its finest. Euphemisms like “uncomfortable” and “collateral damage” are their specialties. Killing the innocent are always on their menu.
Bert Sacks and his delegation got some brief media publicity for their voyage of mercy. He believed that if the American people really knew what was happening to Iraqi children, they would demand that it be stopped. This did not happen.
His tap with the hammer of conscience failed to awaken the hypnotized public who overwhelmingly had elected Clinton to a second term in 1996 six months after the 60 Minutes interview. Yes, “Everything is [was] quiet and peaceful, and nothing protests but mute statistics.”
Although the evidence was overwhelming that Iraqi children in the 1990s were dying at the rate of at least 5,000 per month as a direct result of the sanctions, very few major media publicized this. The 60 Minutes show, with its shocking statement by Albright, was an exception and was seen by millions of Americans.
After that show aired, to claim you didn’t know was no longer believable. And although most mainstream media buried the truth, it was still available to those who cared. There were some conscience-stricken officials, however. In his declaration to the court, Sacks wrote:
The first two heads of the “Oil-for-Food” program – Denis Halliday and Hans von Sponeck – each resigned a position as UN Assistant Secretary-General to protest the consequences of the US imposed sanctions policy on Iraq. Mr. Halliday said, ‘We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that.’ He called it genocide.
There were also, doctors, politicians, independent writers, and Nobel Peace Laureates who called the policy genocide and said, “Sanctions are the economic nuclear bomb.”
Sacks told the court that
Finally, this list includes a 32-year career, retired US diplomat – Deputy Director of the Reagan White House Cabinet Task Force on Terrorism – who says: ‘you can think of a number of countries that have been involved in [terrorist] activities. Ours is one of them.’”
Military planners, moreover, wrote in military publications that it was desirable to kill Iraqi civilians; that it was an essential part – if not the major part – of war strategy. They called it “dual-use targeting” and called themselves “operational artists.”
Sacks was able to reach a few officials and journalists who realized this was not art but massive war crimes. This showed that it is not impossible to change people, hard as it is.
The judge in his court case, James L. Robart, while agreeing that OFAC had not exceeded its authority in fining him, acknowledged that the court had to accept as true that the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children as reported by UNICEF had come to constitute genocide, but [my emphasis] US law prohibited the bringing of any consideration of genocide into a legal proceeding, which allows the US government to commit this crime while barring any other party from raising the issue legally.
In other words, the US government can accuse others of committing genocide, but no one can legally accuse it. It is above all laws.
Ten months before his 1997 trip to Iraq, Sacks met with Kate Pflaumer, the US Attorney for the Western District of Washington. He says:
We met in her office and I asked her for the legal definition of terrorism pursuant to the laws of the United States. She asked what could she do for me.
I said “Prosecute me for violating US Iraq sanctions by bringing medicine there.” She said, “I won’t do that for you! Can I help in any other way?”
I asked for the US legal definition of terrorism. She pulled out a law book, had her secretary copy the page for me, and didn’t forget my request. When she left office, she wrote the op-ed on June 21, 2001…calling US Iraq policy terrorism!
The two main elements relevant to the issue here are:
(1) it is an act dangerous to human life;
and (2) done apparently to coerce or intimidate a civilian population or a government (see 18 U.S.C. § 2331).
On June 21, 2001, Ms. Pflaumer, then the former US Attorney, wrote in the Seattle Post-Intelligencerthe following:
The reality on the ground in Iraq is not contested. Thousands of innocent children and adult civilians die every month as a direct result of the 1991 bombing of civilian infrastructure: sewage treatment plants, electrical generating plants, water purification facilities.
Allied bombing targets included eight multipurpose dams, repeatedly hit, which simultaneously wrecked flood control, municipal and industrial water storage, irrigation and hydroelectric power.
[Four of seven major pumping stations were destroyed, as were 31 municipal water and sewerage facilities. Water purification plants were incapacitated throughout Iraq. We did this for “long term leverage.” These military decisions were sanctioned by then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney.]
In May 1996, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright reaffirmed that the “price” of 500,000 dead Iraqi children was “worth it. ”
Article 54 of the Geneva Convention states: “It is prohibited to attack, destroy or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population” and includes foodstuffs, livestock and “drinking water supplies and irrigation works.”
Title 18 US Code Section 2331 defines international terrorism as acts dangerous to human life that would violate our criminal laws if done in the United States when those acts are intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion.
Thus did Kate Pflaumer, in an act of conscience and upholding her legal obligation as an attorney, call the US a terrorist state. This probably never would have happened without the non-violent hammer of Bert Sacks, who over the years has made nine trips to Iraq with other brave and determined souls who are a credit to humanity. Messengers of love, truth, and compassion.
Despite their witness, such US terrorism continues as usual.
We cannot let “nothing protest but mute statistics.” The first lesson in US Terrorism 101 is to become people with hammers, and hammer out truth and justice for the world to hear. Bert Sacks has done this. We must follow suit.
Therein lies our only hope.
For by any reasonable interpretation of the law, the United Sates is a terrorist state – beyond the law.
P.S. The case against Sacks was eventually dismissed because the US government did not sue Sacks in a timely manner.
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in addition to this , didn’t george Bush jr send 2 plane loads of cash to Irak to help rebuild the infra structure? yes he did! but most of it, if not all was used to comfort themselves in lavish and extreemly wasteful lifestyles!
America is a rogue terrorist state and it’s people are doubly dangerous. The end of all human life will be by yanks. No one else.
Most post Vietnam bloodbaths are implementation of the Yinon plan.
I always feel I have gained something valuable after reading these essays.
This story, and many others I have learned about in the past 6 years of having awakened to the reality of imperialism, is why I suspected from the very beginning that c-vid was an agenda.
But if I were to try and explain that when asked “don’t you believe in the virus??” the eyes would roll.
The US to this point have been the western world’s military complex, to which we’ve all knowingly or unknowingly been benefactors, sadly. England, City of London the world’s financial complex. Rome, Club or Rome, Vatican have their equal powers. Israel may be the epicenter of it all, in the way ‘Goodfellas’ mafia bosses were a bunch of anonymous old guys in a basement somewhere in Kansas.
The true powers, pulling Washington’s strings are at the heart of the matter above, just as they are Covid 19, the G5 towers, Chemtrail skies in every nation, GMO in all nations food supply, Federal Reserve, gold prices, ad infinitum… and THIS is truly a global issue. The US politicians, as Biden proves to us each and every day are nothing more than trustees. Sad little imbeciles following orders to eat at the table with the big boys. Didn’t we miss the bus long ago going after the Madeleine Albrights?
Plus 10. Drumpf, Creepy Joe, Killary, Bojo, Dictator Dan and the rest are errand boys (and girls).
Thank you, as ever, OffG for enlightenment. Thomas Merton’s poem is devastating in the power of the last three lines to unmask sanitised barbarism.
Pompeo bragged about US terrorism against innocent Venezuelans: “No food. No medicine. Now, no power. Next, no [Venezuela Pres.] Maduro.— Secretary Pompeo (@SecPompeo) March 8, 2019″…In a tweet on March 8, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo framed the electricity outage as a pivotal stage in US plans for regime change.”….
https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1103872530450771968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
A book suggestion for further reference: Rogue Nation; Howard Blum.
Whenever I’m reminded of Madeleine Albright’s atrocious defense of the US causing the mass deaths of Iraqi children due to imposing punitive sanctions, I can’t help but think of her disingenuous attempt at damage control: when the justifiable blowback exploded to an extent that required her to respond apologetically, she more or less contritely conceded that she never should have put it that way– something along the lines of “It was a stupid thing to say.”
Albright herself, and inattentive listeners, may have thought she was “apologizing for”, or recanting, that reprehensible remark. But she was really only expressing regret for clumsily putting her cloven hoof in her mouth by being a little too uncharacteristically honest and forthright in the first place.
She really meant “It was stupid of me to say something like that out loud.”
Defence? She, H Clinton, and their equals and superiors are simply stating their position: that they feel jsutified. They are drunk with power and just don’t care. It is like the colonial claims of “terra nullis”. The victim governments may raise their agonised protests at the UN GA (if the Empire allows them into NYC), but there are no honest reports of what they say.
Yes, a terrorist nation. The US is the cock that rules the NATO roost.
Closer to home in the Netherleands, we blindly follow the diktats of the US.
Invading Irak, invading Afghanistan, supporting the ISIS terrorists in Syria
with Toyotas, using the dutch population as labrats for untested vaccines.
Bellingcat’s location is in the Netherlands, as is the international court of no justice.
Oh and student loans, that boon to society.
The dutch PM Mark Rutte was awarded a prize by the Atlantic Council outfit.
Opening speaker on that particular evening’s fstivities was Klaus Schwab.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/news/transcripts/global-citizen-awards-transcript-prime-minister-of-netherlands-mark-rutte/
I would say that the US is influenced by many nations including the Netherlands. The US does not operate in a vacuum and it was the Netherlands, Britain, Spain, Portugal, France, and Belgium among the few that taught the US how to subjugate people of foreign lands.
with your retarded line of … “thought”? we can go back to Atilla the hun at least. Resume watching the Nascar race with the sixpack in your lap
He didn’t say thought he said taught. I know yanks can be dumb but don’t emulate them.
The Dutch,Spanish, Portuguese, English and French between them created the “New World” on behalf of their (common) masters.
True.
I would love to know if Bert Sacks actually believed at some point that the American people, once “informed” of what was happening, would give a fuck.
The main purpose of mainstream “journalism” is not propaganda but satisfaction. That is, providing satisfactory presentations of US terrorism and genocide so that the American people need not waver in their self-righteous belief in their essential “goodness.”
As a footnote, it should be noted that weather warfare has been added to the US genocidal arsenal. By creating conditions of drought, deluge and wildfire, the US killing machine can save its bombs for another day.
And as another footnote, it must – absolutely must – be noted that the very idea of such a thing as White Supremacy is total hogwash. Perish the thought that white folks alone seem cut out for genocide, because it’s also being done on a daily basis by the…and the…and the… Oh fuck, I’m sure someone somewhere has!
Weather Warfare? Interesting point. Iran is currently suffering a drought across 97% the country. HAARP, I believe the Amerikans call it. If only HATE caused own cancer😪
Look at real Korea in 93. Very bizarre weather anomalies leading to famine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCirclejerk/comments/r3xnac/irish_senator_calls_for_unvaccinated_to_be_banned/
Show us how, Klaus.
After you, sir.
Wouldn’t the guy have been better off taking engineering equipment to rebuild the water purification plants rather than Western medicines?
They make money out of the destruction then make money out of the rebuild and expect applause and being lauded as heroes for it. One might call it ‘Disaster Capitalism’ except the inventor of that term refuses to apply to it to the current crisis or anything much involving Big Pharma (“oh, they lie about everything else, but not this… “).
Madeleine Albright 101:
https://bucknellian.net/90351/opinion/think-twice-about-madeleine-albright/
Absolutely.
I have already thought twice about Madeleine Albright, and I’m not going to think about her again.
Madame Albright has the distinction of being a perfect human being: she looks the same on the outside as she clearly is on the inside.
⇡
Medical supplies, not money, were donated, and besides, how much engineering equipment do you think $40,000 would have bought anyway, dickhead?
Affordable and could be carried in luggage. Administered by indigenous front line sick care professionals.
No engineers nor massive equipment and materials required.
It was mostly a symbolic gesture that he had hoped would get the criminal sanctions into a court of law and the court of public opinion.
The only genocide that is to mentioned publicly is the Holocaust.
As the politicians, Generals, celebrities, CEOs, sports stars, rock stars, pulp writers and wealthy ‘artists’ etc line up for, and wallow in their awards, prizes, accolades and hagiographies, the real heroes go unsung and ignored by the MSM.
I would also like to add that based on my experience, the US is a police state par excellence in addition to being a terrorist one. And I say that as a person who grew up in a Second World totalitarian country, generally believed and perceived to have had heavy policing. Not quite. Never ever did I feel anywhere in the world so unfree and subject to hostile police surveillance as in the States. Never did the bolshevik pigs project so much hostility toward people as their US counterparts.
That was mirrored in an extreme societal pressure to conform to the conventional views, lifestyle, everything under the threat of excommunication, just like non-compliance with the cops’ Gestapo-like procedures was liable to get one killed (personal experience).
Mind you, this was decades ago. I haven’t been to the US for quite a while and not planning to re-visit anytime soon.
Beats me how such a country was able to produce such truly free music as jazz. But that was a long time ago. Jazzers are today just as fascist in respect of jazz as everybody else.
One thing the “truly free” jazz is not free of (so obvious even the Fraud was forced to notice it):
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/02/secret-jazz-freemason-history-duke-ellington-sun-ra
I was talking about the musical aspect of jazz, not the bullshit that surrounds it, to which I, in fact, alluded in my remark.
There are other musical cultures that embody freedom even greater than jazz, such as Indian classical music, where jazz is actually subject to quite restrictive rules. But in the realm of occidental music, jazz is still the freest music out there, barring some forms of modern classical music.
Well, ‘is’, ‘was’ at certain periods and I guess not all of the jazz genres.
My two cents’ worth – from an admittedly classical professional perspective:
Apart from the interesting aspects of ‘typical’ jazz’s harmonic structure, which can be very beautiful, there is also a hypnotic aspect – almost trance-like – to its relentlessly rhythmic base.
This is true even if the ornamentation around the absolutely solid rhythmic structure is highly complex. In fact, if that rhythmic base was not attended to with the utmost discipline, most jazz would fall apart.
This is one of jazz’s great charms and most seductive features: To ‘feel’ the basic pulse – never to lose it, despite the fascinating distractions and frills of the decorated melodic line. It’s even a challenge, and that’s always a good thing in music.
But of course this hypnotic aspect can also be useful to the darker forces in our society which very much like us being in a permanent trance-like state…
…yet another potential part of the mechanism of keeping us under control – deadening at least some of our senses, while simultaneously entertaining us.
I myself love relaxing with jazz, but I feel it’s probably just as well to be aware of the anaesthetizing features accompanying it, however nice they might be…
Probably everything else has it’s flip side too, so I do not mean in any way to deprecate jazz. Just to point out the potential usefulness of some of its characteristics to certain manipulative elements among us – people we don’t want to know…
As a non-musician, I would appreciate your assessment of my particular view of jazz.
I’ve never been comfortable listening to jazz. I consider it too intellectual.
I greatly prefer classical music; but primarily of the Romantic period, because of its (rather obvious) emotive quality.
I’m not opposed to the intellect by any means; but I do find “intellectual” music somewhat nerve-racking.
Is my view even in the ballpark?
I think all views are ‘in the ballpark’, essentially.
I have devoted my life to classical music because, for me, it encompasses everything to the highest degree:
The three basic elements in music are, harmony, melody and rhythm.
To my mind, if any one of those elements is lacking, or exaggerated, the music becomes inferior, if not entirely undeserving of the name, ‘music’…
It’s an old-fashioned view, but it tallies perfectly with my own experience of what makes great music.
With jazz – I stress, in general terms – rhythm is the principal element. Once you cotton on to what the bass player is doing, and the rock-solid regularity of his contribution, you can dance, twitch, or click your fingers in time with him. You almost don’t need the other players.
Then, if the piece is called, “Autumn Leaves”, or “Misty”, the melodic line relates to the well-known song, or a newly-composed one.
The melody is not always very easy to perceive, but its basic shape is preserved, and the ‘soloist’ clarinet, saxophone, or whatever, then shows his skill in weaving around the melody, sometimes wilfully trying to throw us off the bass player’s beat by using complex rhythms and accents in unusual places.
For me, this is all part of the fun and entertainment aspect of jazz, and the experts in this ornamentation are rightly called geniuses in their mastery of having apparently lost the beat, without having actually lost it at all – stretching the limits of how far ornamentation can go without leaving the piece’s gravitational pull, as it were…
Then there is the harmony, where the keyboard player or guitarist rules, and here again the harmonies can veer away from the basic framework of what is often a well-known song from bygone days.
Here, too, the performer has the freedom to take risks with the limits of recognizability, and that’s where sheer individual talent comes in.
Pianists like Oscar Peterson have their own ‘sound’ and energy, and people either like it or they don’t. I love Peterson’s virtuosity and drive, but there are much calmer performers, like Bill Evans, whom I love just as much.
From my limited practical experience of jazz, it seems to me that there are certain well-established chord progressions which can be made to fit a wide variety of music. Once a jazz player has mastered these basic progressions, he will likely add his own personal ones.
So that is my view of what I would call ‘non-intellectual’ jazz.
Once you get into ‘modern jazz’, it generally leaves me behind, as does a great deal of modern ‘classical’ music.
Perhaps that’s what also puts you off when you speak of ‘intellectual’ jazz.
I just don’t follow its logic, or, rather, I don’t like its ‘logic’.
It often seems so arbitrary, and can often be unbalanced in the sense of the three basic elements of music I mention at the top here.
I hope this helps, but I am certain that the only thing which matters is what gives you enjoyment and a feeling that you are experiencing something worthwhile.
Not even Beethoven is for everybody, after all, although I would claim that there are moments in his music which few can resist…
Thank you. Another question from a non-musician, if you don’t mind.
I’ve concluded that Joseph Haydn is perhaps the most influential classical composer.
I know I can read in Wikipedia that there’s something to this conclusion; but for me it’s based entirely on listening to his symphonies.
Anything to that?
It’s like this.
Mozart dies and goes to heaven.
After the necessary formalities, God summons him and says, “Wolfgang, we have this weekly choir thing here every Sunday, and I’d like you to be the musical director and conductor.” Mozart feels honored, but says, “Yes Sir, I’ll be most happy to assume that duty, but isn’t the greatest of the great, Johann Sebastian Bach, a resident here, and wouldn’t he be a better man for the job?”
“Im Bach, you fucking idiot,” God retorts.
Hope that answers your question.
Happy to give you my two-cents’ worth:
I know the music of both Mozart and Haydn pretty well, and there are moments in the works of either which I would not like to live without.
What matters to me is that Mozart – especially in his orchestral and vocal music – seems to be able to grab my heart without fail. Haydn, only sometimes.
But there are others who think the opposite.
The answer for you, as for me, is simply which of them we like best ourselves.
Inasfar as God enters into the equation, I would say that He gave Mozart the gift of comprehensive perfection – in technical, emotional and in truly human genius.
I can see with Haydn that there was more of a struggle involved to achieve such perfection, but that isn’t a negative thing at all.
Finally, with Beethoven, we get almost nothing but struggle – he was never happy with any idea until he had wrestled with it and conquered it.
In his works he even lets us see some of his wrestling processes, as for example when he presents a phrase, then a variant of it, then another version, until at last we sense his triumph at having found the one that works best.
That personal communication with his listeners can really give us the feeling that we know him, while Mozart’s divine perfection seems almost to belong to another world.
Just some random thoughts, but since music is an art, not a science, don’t ever forget what YOU like best. Nothing trumps that.
Jazz is clearly a wonderful musical genre, a blessing to life. I wish I could like it.
For me, it’s light entertainment which makes few demands on my critical faculties. As such, It’s nice wallpaper/background-music.
There are a couple of wonderful performers for whom I make exceptions because their playing is so damn good it compels you to listen.
I’d say that you’re missing the point a bit. Jazz is not necessarily music you can listen to. You have to experience it. It’s like that with every music genre, music being performing art, but the interplay between jazz musicians that creates the work of art is unique during every performance. That includes fuckups, wrong notes. The smell of spilled beer and thick cigarette smoke. And the guy shooting up in the can and the couple fucking in the back alley.
I think you’re right about experiencing music – of any kind – but I don’t think I’m really missing the point.
It’s just that the experience you are speaking of comes from a different place for me, and I don’t have time for jazz other than as light entertainment.
I tend to be rather obsessive in my work and my hobbies, so I know that if I got into jazz, it would occupy me too much, considering my other interests.
At any rate I’m happy with the little I do know about it.
There are of course fuckups and wrong notes in my classical field too, but they are usually regarded as ‘most regrettable’…
🙂
Long before the perfectionism of modern recording, Beethoven said that wrong notes were of no importance, but what he found unforgivable was playing without passion.
He was also a marvellous improvisor, and would just sit down at a piano and play whatever came into his head.
This was normal for the top performers of his day, but in our time that art has disappeared from classical playing – again, because of the perfectionism which recording requires.
It died out simply because it was no longer seen as necessary.
Regrettable, but understandable, since it reveals imperfections and vulnerabilities in the performer.
We should be grateful to jazz for having preserved something of that lost element.
Right, they must have been. Good improvisers, that’s it. Figured bass not being that different from jazz comping.
Anyway, if painting were music, the classical musician would be akin to the frame and the canvass while the jazzer would be much more akin to the painter. I guess if you achieve a high level of mastery, such as Glen Gould, you can have more creative input, but never as much as the jazz improviser.
Anyway, nice talking. Hope you’ve been able to do some playing in these fucked up times.
A cute comment, coming from a classical musician. I see it the other way around. To me, the groove in any jazz-derived music is the natural thing, the way it should be. In my musical world, any if you play with the rhythm, the music stays within the meter – the pulse doesn’t change. Not so, in ‘classical’ music. You guys speed up, slow down as the fabric of the music demands.
I was lucky to have one certain Bernard Lagace, a world-class organist, as a professor of music history. Bernard was a charming, ever-so-kind man who played us a piece on piano at the beginning of every lesson. I was put in charge of turning the pages, being the best sightreader (turning pages is no easy matter, one must follow the music as the player and not fuck up, which I have managed too in my lifetime, like turning two pages at once). Anyway, I was tapping my foot, as I’m used to, and Bernard used to make these painful faces … Finally, I asked him what was up, and he told me, ‘your foot’.
I’ve since learned to appreciate how classical musicians approach rhythm.
BTW, I wouldn’t say that rhythm is the most important element of jazz. I’d say that it’s improvisation and improvised interaction. As far as melody, the most developed musical cultures are Indian and Arab music. Indian music also has the most intricate rhythms. On the contrary, occidental classical music excels at harmony (essentially absent in other musical cultures) and form and orchestration.
Anyway, in relation to the issue at hand, it’s interesting that the US culture is on the one hand so conventional and restrictive, and on the other, there are expressions of utmost freedom. Action and reaction, I guess.
I don’t really disagree with you on any of that. Perhaps there is just a slight misunderstanding here and there.
I didn’t mean to say that rhythm was ‘the most important’ element of jazz. I still hold that with all good music, all three of the elements I mentioned need to be present and in balance.
I would say rather that rhythm – as I stressed, in general terms – would seem to be the ‘most basic‘ element in jazz, and, by ‘rhythm’, I mean the same thing as what you call the ‘pulse’.
We also agree that most classical music, even ‘formal’ music like Mozart’s, needs a certain amount of flexibility of pulse, otherwise it sounds mechanical.
The emotional harmonic content simply requires natural breathing, preparation and resolution – tempered in degree, of course, to the style of the music involved.
Rachmaninoff, Liszt and Chopin, for example, can tolerate a great deal of flexibility, and it is even said that when Beethoven played his own music, he allowed himself to change the tempo according to how he felt at the time about any given phrase – sometimes disregarding his own instructions in the score.
I think we can agree that all good music is subject to endless interpretation, and what really matters is what you rightly refer to as ‘the experience’ of it, which will be different for every individual.
Despite many years of being also a teacher, I still don’t believe the rules and regulations are a recipe for ‘good music’.
High five !
“I think we can agree that all good music is subject to endless interpretation, and what really matters is what you rightly refer to as ‘the experience’ of it, which will be different for every individual.”
I nod to that.
Early blues and jazz, early rock n roll and protest folk music were how the oppressed talked back to their oppressors.
Ska, Reggae and rap being later versions.
Not sure what you mean by early blues and early jazz. You might be surprised, but what we understand as blues today – the 12-bar form – was formalized by one WC Handy, a schooled black man. Not sure if he meant to talk back to oppressors. Maybe the chants of slaves working on plantations were.
Ditto jazz. I don’t think that the early forms are all that free. Jazz was free in the 50s, 60, and 70s, with Miles, Bird, Trane, all the way up to Mahavishnu. Before, it was the popular music du jour and after one rehash after another of the golden old days.
While classified as music, the musical component of reggae and rap is really not that important. Take away the lyrics and setting, and the musical material could belong to any other subculture. Which is not the case with, say, Ornette Coleman.
Anyway, I had no intention to put jazz or any other music genre on a pedestal and vice versa. Any expression of freedom through art is good. In that regard, European classical music is the worst offender, its rules having been subject to the church. The prohibition of parallel fifths and the augmented second (among other rules) being a case in point.
Thank heaven Beethoven put paid to the church’s hold over classical music for good.
Like everybody in those days, he believed in God, but he had a sort of dialogue with the Divinity. An insistence that everything was not going to be only on God’s terms. A true hero, with immense courage and love for those with the ears to hear what he was saying.
Before him, even Mozart managed, within the difficult formal constraints of his employment, to compose music which broke through all the rules and regulations and spoke directly to human souls.
That’s why he is still loved too.
If Bach, during baroque times, had tried to do the same as Beethoven or Mozart, he would have been rejected, unemployed and forgotten, but the Romantic era of music had not yet dawned, so he was still able to use his talents to the full within those outer constraints.
Times change, and I suppose notions of ‘freedom’ do too.
My self-centred private view is that I feel free as long as I can perform, arrange or otherwise create music as I choose – especially now that I am retired from teaching.
Covid is the first thing that has ever seriously threatened that aspect of my life, so I take it personally.
But of course I also feel at one with everybody else who is similarly threatened.
It might interest you to know that here in Iceland I have heard people here and there who still sing certain folk songs quite naturally in parallel fourths and fifths.
This is a throwback to the beginnings of Christianity here over a thousand years ago.
Monks from other countries came here with their religious chants, and back then the church was all in favour of parallel fifths…!
They call it ‘tvísöngur’. (‘double-singing)
https://youtu.be/NaW_JpmtDok
Have you read The Joke, a novel by Milan Kundera? I’d highly recommend it for its literary qualities and a look at the bolshevik regime from a particular angle, but it also contains a section describing traditional Moravian folk music and its modal qualities, quite a bit of which escaped the transformation of European folk music into the dull tonic, subdominant, dominant (repeat ad nauseam) concept after the advent of tonal music.
That was lovely.
And this conversation about music – classical, jazz, rythm, composers, freedom – has been a wonderful interlude. Thank you.
˄
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCirclejerk/comments/r1z6l8/a_concerned_parent_from_georgia_is_handcuffed_for/
If 500,000 Iraqi kids deaths can be considered “worth it”, what’s Their “acceptable limit” of number of deaths to implement The Great Economic Restructuring ?
About 6,000,000,000
Well Albright isn’t worth much any more.
I’d even pay a decent sum for somebody to expunge her name from the history books.
The thing that’s priceless about Madame Albright is that, after more than 20 years, the media has STILL not found a way to whitewash her infamous comment.
Sadly that doesn’t matter much, most people who heard/read about that comment have long forgotten and don’t see USA as a terrorist state.