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DEBATE: “Russia & the Great Reset – Resistance or Complicity?”

OffGuardian has teamed up with Unlimited Hangout to host our first-ever panel discussion: “Russia & the Great Reset – Resistance or Complicity?”

Is the war in Ukraine an “extension of Covid by other means”? Is Putin’s Russia opposed to globalism or actively supporting it? Is the east-west clash between the US-EU and Russia-China a genuine struggle of ideas, or squabbling over the best seats at the table?

Moderators Kit Knightly and Whitney Webb discuss all this and more with their guest panellists:

Iain Davis is an independent investigative journalist, blogger and author from Portsmouth, UK. He is a contributor to UK Column and Unlimited Hangout. His work is often featured by OffGuardian, the Corbett Report and Zero Hedge, among others, and he also has his own website, In This Together where you can download his books for free. [Twitter]

Matthew Ehret is the Editor-in-Chief of the Canadian Patriot Review, a contributor to the media outlet Strategic Culture and a Senior Fellow at the American University in Moscow. He is a contributor to Unlimited Hangout and also the author of the books, The Untold History of Canada and Clash of the Two Americas. You can read his writings at canadianpatriot.org or through his substack [Twitter]

Tom Luongo is a political commentator and analyst who hosts the Gold, Goats and Guns blog and podcast, which is frequently republished by sites like ZeroHedge. He previously contributed to Russia Insider and Strategic Culture. His website can be found at TomLuongo.me [Twitter]

Riley Waggaman is an American journalist based in Moscow who has previously worked for RT, PressTV, and Russia Insider. He currently writes about Russia, with a special focus on COVID-related issues, at his Substack, Edward Slavsquat. [Twitter]

*

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Ben
Ben
May 10, 2022 12:57 AM

The timing of the Ukraine operation is suspicious. Right at the moment when Pfizer/Moderna shares were diving to total oblivion. Two weeks more and both companies were bankrupt.

It alos came when the People of the world were finally winning against the COVID SCAM and the perpetrators. More and more demos and more and more disobedience. Their covid BS narrative was dying.

Then comes Ukraine. As if Putin wanted to help usurper Biden to come back from the dead…

In October 2021, Putin got a billion $ from the IMF. In november 2021, QR codes (vax passports) started to pop-up everywhere in Russia (but Russians didn’t comply).

February, Putin seems to kick the globalist asses. We’d love it to be true. Did he take the money and decided to keep it without destroying his country as planned by the globalists ?

We would love nothing else but to see Davos, Geneva (during the WHO meeting for the ‘PLANDEMIC treaty’, Brussels, Luxembourg, the City of London, Wall Street and the sewer of Washington DC go up in flames with the globalist scum…

But that won’t happen.

So far, the only people who are targeted is us. The covid fascism, the manufactured hyper inflation, the ‘sanctions’, all of this is directed at us, not Russia…

TNT
TNT
Apr 16, 2022 9:35 PM

I think the damage they claim being done to residential ukraine is staged, I have seen plenty of evidence. Zalensky is an obvious NWO/DAVOS/BILDERBERG NAZI puppet. Ukraine is nazi proud. On the other hand we know that putin was once a nobody and WEF’s Scwab helped place him as one of his young global leader students, but this does not mean he is a NWO puppet. Tulsi Gabbard is a perfect example of an ex-young global leader who went rogue against the evil globalist agenda.
The 30+ secret US bioweapon labs are not a theory, its a fact. The US govmt said it was true already and was recorded publicly in congressional hearing. Rus currency gold standard conversion is a bold and great anti-globalist move. Russian military claims to free ukraine from the corrupt nazi false democracy that the US deep state supports. I have seen schools amd hospitals in ukraine converted into military bases ans those were the ones hit. Airport, bases, biolabs etc.. I have seen genuine footage of rus troopa securing areas in ukraine and feeding and providing meds for the locals. As far as the plandemic, Russia too jumped on the vaccination train and investigations have found the same super toxic graphene nanotech as in all the others. Russia too claims that they are 100% safe and super effective, while in reality the same horrible side effects and deaths are reported with this spike protien bioweapon as well. It is truly confusing because unlike India and most Africa and a few others, Russia played the plandemic fraud game on it’s people.

oddly
oddly
Apr 13, 2022 10:02 AM

Watched this last night.Was a good 1st session..

Samm
Samm
Apr 9, 2022 9:38 AM

Russia is getting treated exactly like Serbia in the 90s,(excessive arming of opposing side,sanctions,western msm demonization,’cancelling’ of an entire people, fake war crimes,ignoring/covering up of crimes against the ‘enemy’)
In fact Syria,Iraq,Libya and many others were treated the same. Where all of these complicit in the NWO? Where all of these staged? Gadaffi,Sloba,Assad,Saddam all the same as Putin,Biden,Macron,Johnson?
Is Putin a saint? No
He clearly obviously did something to piss of the Davos crew. Quiet a few here suffer the same problem as the globalists,removed from reality. You’re saying you have an open mind but are ignoring a whole load facts and history because its easier to just say Putin is one of them. All covid measures are ceased in Russia. Russia gives incentives for more children. Russia has a strong army. Russia is not woke. Russia will not ever be cashless. Because Russians arent westerners. Their cbdc roll out is way too flimsy and slow. Russians are not saints and have their problems. What is for sure is that this wasnt according plan. The EU reaction towards their own citizens is planned. They just waited for an opportunity. You have to look at the wider picture properly. You cant just quote WEF and say thats proof,theyre all in it together.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Apr 9, 2022 10:21 AM
Reply to  Samm

Did the Daily Mail and New York Post run a front page story about how Serbian claims of NATO war crimes might be correct?

Samm
Samm
Apr 9, 2022 3:42 PM

Both Serbian and Russian claims were treated as fake news and disinformation. Occasionally Serbs’ historical claims were mentioned as are Russias,albeit scarcely. Complete silence of ethnic cleansing of Russians in Donbass.
Please explain or I’m missing something.
Milosević and Putin are ‘new Hitler’
Srebrenica/Račak,Mariupol/Bucha are the new holocaust. Serbs and Russians are Nazis. Croatian Ustaše/Muslim extremists,Azov battalion/Banderistas are new jews/victims

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Apr 9, 2022 3:47 PM
Reply to  Samm

The Daily Mail and New York Post have both publicly said – in front page headlines – in recent weeks that Russian allegations about bio labs are likely correct.

Samm
Samm
Apr 9, 2022 6:51 PM

My take is that today isnt the 90s. In the 90s literally the world was against Serbia. The 90s,early 2000s were the peak of the unipolar world. Peak globalism. Russia was weak,China wasn’t what it is today. Brazil,South Africa,India,Turkey,Iran…were nothing then. The powers that be (EU/USA) thought they had reached endgame. Serbian land where turned into North Korea in the heart of Europe. Russia today is on the balance of resources,military,international connections,is one of the most powerful nation in the world. My point is Russia today has most of the world(Africa,China,India,Pakistan,Middle East,Brazil) taking a much more neutral approach to world conflicts. Serbia was alone,small,destroyed and islolated. The world has kept spinning since then. If a powerful and pissed Russia has proof(bio labs) that can wreck the west,western msm will listen. If Serbia has proof of 400 000 cleansed Serbs from Krajina in Croatia or about a certain yellow house in northern Albania where Serbs had organs removed,no one cares in the slightest. Zaharova has recently mentioned as a counter question that Biden should be tried for war crimes for the bombing of Serbia in 99. Serbia 99 and Russia 2022 are day and night .

TNT
TNT
Apr 16, 2022 8:02 PM
Reply to  Samm

Msm will never listen, they swear the make or break realities. The Biolabs are 100% true, the US govmt said it was true already and recorded that publicly in congressional hearing.

mls
mls
Apr 8, 2022 7:42 AM

Are you just going to ignore the mounting evidence, not just that both ‘sides’ are really the same side, but that the war is being staged?

I commented before on the near total absence of good video of the Russian army in Ukraine, how all we see are small scale propaganda films featuring the “DPR” – guys way too old or unfit to be pro soldiers. Sure, there is destroyed infrastructure, but it all looks residential. And anyhow destroying infrastructure is a great way to make money from the “rebuild” (think Halliburton in Iraq).

And now we are getting evidence these little “feature films” like Bucha are actually using FAKE BODIES –

https://twitter.com/four_ass_monkey/status/1511783330408194051?s=12&t=0C6wSQeMGCc4XAkc0jijTg

John the First
John the First
Apr 8, 2022 1:50 AM

Tom Luonge is definitely the best, he may be boldly self-assertive, but that is actually needed as an immunity against the insane world of the democratic psychopathology of global conspiracy theories, which consist mostly of ignorant self declared ‘awakened’ mass culture public. Like he writes on his website, therapy would be useful. Maybe those who contribute to this medium should stop and think and self-reflect for a while, a preference to create sensational hypes is not only limited to MSM media… While there should be freedom of press, you also have a responsibility, stop feeding people with speculations which are rooted psychologically in what is not healthy paranoia, but bottomless pathological paranoia and hostility.

mls
mls
Apr 8, 2022 7:34 AM
Reply to  John the First

Hi Tom. How’s it goin’?

vuorilotta
vuorilotta
Apr 7, 2022 7:57 PM

How did we get through the whole discussion without a single mention of Israel?
Also next time can we get a better “libertarian” besides Luongo?

Joyce Bowen
Joyce Bowen
Apr 7, 2022 6:12 PM

I supported a bunch of authors and speakers here on 3/27. I concluded Russia’s involvement is complicity after studying the issue.
**
Why Russian Invaded Ukraine | How To Make NATO Great Again | Kissinger & The Great Game…
https://joyce-bowen.blog/2022/03/27/why-russian-invaded-ukraine-how-to-make-nato-great-again-kissinger-the-great-game/
The reestablishment of slavery??? And we thought the shots were the worst that could happen…
**
I had this sneaky suspicion things were not as they seemed even though my work was shared on a Russian website. My heart wants to believe the Russian people have no idea what’s happening.

fertility
fertility
Apr 7, 2022 2:31 PM

This was not a bad discussion.Will they do more.?

doru001
doru001
Apr 7, 2022 5:47 AM

Putin is definitely one of them, WW3 is part of Agenda 21, and he fully follows it, forced vaccination, censorship, concentration of wealth and power to the top, and they forgot to delete his WEF page from archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20210314025357/https://www.weforum.org/people/vladimir-putin

https://bastyon.com/index?video=1&v=6bfbf564f4184f68d9cdbe85a8cd715e7abae9b14a673df6814c41b6247d687d

https://bastyon.com/index?s=50554335e03b725b592202fe2028997e185cb2f25f58860170858cde80530d60&ref=PRKK2PsJDhMWtc6A66y9crsnURG3LfKsxY&commentid=1816281d2d7a451632a7bd3caa5af060ad59390941b12de80badfbc34d216059
plankton45 
Tomorrow, this creature introduces total censorship in Russia – with a prison sentence of up to 15 years if anyone says a word that does not correspond to the official propaganda of the Kremlin. Russia is finally being turned into North Korea-2.

https://bastyon.com/index?s=50554335e03b725b592202fe2028997e185cb2f25f58860170858cde80530d60&ref=PRKK2PsJDhMWtc6A66y9crsnURG3LfKsxY&commentid=3f5d31195795c1028677a6dbd08a6abc3dee0bc2629be84188c09cff4f63889e&parentid=1816281d2d7a451632a7bd3caa5af060ad59390941b12de80badfbc34d216059
doru001 
@plankton45 They’re are trying to do the same in the West as we are speaking. I hope they will fail.

https://bastyon.com/index?s=50554335e03b725b592202fe2028997e185cb2f25f58860170858cde80530d60&ref=PRKK2PsJDhMWtc6A66y9crsnURG3LfKsxY&commentid=8ddae07f8d135f612f1d54f997a45931ef8f4ebcaec1d5ed47a95c668d3f0e4b&parentid=1816281d2d7a451632a7bd3caa5af060ad59390941b12de80badfbc34d216059
plankton45 
@doru001 I hope the same, because from Russia, under the Putler and Schwab agreement, they are making an analogue of North Korea – but they are going to deploy the board of Sberbank of the Russian Federation instead of the state – which already owns half of all chain stores in the country, controls all education and all pharmacies in the country, and now, when all foreign investors run away, this mega corporation will drive the whole country under itself, for this, laws have been written and adopted for a long time – they are conducting an experiment in Russia, which they want to spread to the whole world, I have read all these laws personally and analyzed, since I specialize in law, in public administration. Everything will belong to the united corporation. And so all states want to abolish all over the world – it is written in their memoranda.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/G1OZYoxaJ2Y/ 1:13:20

John the First
John the First
Apr 7, 2022 12:57 AM

In the Netherlands, after a request from information by some members of the parliament, it turned out that several Dutch ministers regularly have meetings with the WEF. Even more, the ministers funded the WEF’s ‘Gobal Coordinating Secretariat’ with 650.000 euro Dutch tax payers money, and they set up a working group of tax payed Dutch civil officers who are working out projects of the WEF. This all happened outside of the view of the parliament.

I’d say, I can imagine that some politicians are fed up with serving the petty claims of the bourgeois democratic populations, that they want something more prestigious, but you’d rather stick that money in your own pockets to waste it tastefully and pretentiously than to waste it on cartoon villain Schwab’s incestuous elite hobby club. These politicians have a bad taste, probably because they are representatives of the people.

paul
paul
Apr 6, 2022 8:03 PM

Britain is now playing such an active part in the fighting in Ukraine that it has to be considered an actual combatant power. Supply of billions in weapons, training, intelligence, piloting drones, open encouragement of mercenaries, active participation of senior military officers. orchestrating and funding propaganda false flags.

Those involved in this country must now be considered legitimate military targets. Missile factories supplying the Ukrainian Nazis, ports and airfields used for deliveries, military installations where those personnel are stationed.

Phillis Stein
Phillis Stein
Apr 8, 2022 2:17 AM
Reply to  paul

Also, I understand you may be the ONLY country to have sanctioned Gazprom? Nobody else was that suicidal on behalf of their people. Let’s hope for your sakes that this is over before your next winter.

mls
mls
Apr 8, 2022 7:50 AM
Reply to  paul

Why do you think the war is real, Paul?

Because wars are always real by default?

Because it can’t be staged even when it looks like it is?

Why bring fake bodies to a real war?

https://twitter.com/four_ass_monkey/status/1511783330408194051?s=12&t=0C6wSQeMGCc4XAkc0jijTg

Why do we see no evidence of any actual fighting apart from old buildings that look like they may have been damaged any time in the past eight years?

Why is it so hard to pinpoint where the conflict is actually happening? Why are no reporters embedded in the actual active professional Russian army units rather than tooling around on the outskirts with small bands of DPR and always describing the action as happening “over there”, NEVER where they are?

Does this look like any war you’ve ever seen before?

Edwige
Edwige
Apr 6, 2022 9:15 AM

Tom Luongo was insufferable – even he admitted he was “belligerent” but gave himself a free pass because circumstances are so urgent and he’s so passionate. He used little tactics to try to control the discussion e.g. saying what should and should not be under discussion, constant interruptions, giving reminders that other were over time although he talked more than anyone, ridicule.

Whitney Webb has many strengths and I’ve linked her worked here several times – but she wasn’t a good debate moderator. The idea itself of holding a debate is of course fine and although I agree there’s not enough of this in the alt-media this one showed to some extent why there aren’t more. They require specialist skills which most in the alt-media don’t have and sophists can exploit that.

Luongo said he’s no historian – well, indeed. That’s the whole evidence trail up to this point dismissed in one line. Not “being a historian” doesn’t dismiss all the insights that approach can bring or excuse someone from some knowledge about it. Instead of all the accumulated evidence of people’s actions and associations in the past Luongo based his whole case on what he had divined as people’s intent. He can read souls? (Sure we all do this to some extent – but his entire argument is based on it)

Luongo’s whole take reminded me of QAnon – a stitching together of disparate elements with added vastly improbable interpretations into a meta-narrative that stands reality on its head. The word sandwich is delivered so incessantly and with no acknowledged doubt that it can overwhelm the unwary. The genuine – those who want time to think about new information and who are willing to adjust their ideas to it if convinced – appear superficially less convincing… but is their position not in truth the one honest people have? It’s why sophistry is so corrosive to debate and why the Greeks soured on it.

To take three of his arguments that didn’t get addressed specifically: 1) Putin’s return to the gold standard proves he’s genuine? This is like the QAnon argument that Trump taking over the Fed proved he’s genuine. A hundred years ago it would’ve been a good idea but it makes little real difference now, things are too advanced. As Russia is the world’s third largest gold producer (and their Chinese allies the first), they can control the level of gold circulating so the gold standard isn’t much of a discipline. 2) Russia and China’s fondness for traditional fuels. Renewables are a weapon to destroy Western economies and living standards – of course the elite know they can’t supply reliable energy and someone needs to keep producing fuel sources that actually work. Are they suddenly fixing masts to their yachts – or using Russian oil? 3) China’s lockdowns are to destroy supply chains to the West? This is most farcical of the lot. There are any number of reasons that could be used to justify reducing supply – but they happen to use the one that involves more control of the population? It’s destroying the village to save it logic.

Overall, the function of libertarians like Luongo and Zerohedge is to keep right opposition from looking at the private part of the Public-Private Partnership. The libertarian paradigm is a prison to protect corporations from serious scrutiny.

P.S. It just struck me how similar belligerent is to Bellingcat – it looks like some more of their beloved wordplay.

Edwige
Edwige
Apr 6, 2022 9:21 AM
Reply to  Edwige

I meant to add that I wouldn’t disagree there are some differences in the Western, Russian and Chinese models of globalism based on historio-cultural roots. Russia and China do indeed seem less Malthusian and that is welcome as far as it goes. It’s probably the inevitable difference between an ‘arrived’ region and up-and-coming ones. However nobody said globalism requires immediate and complete uniformity. It’s like federalism on a global scale – Texas and California have profound differences but still function within the same overall system (and over time they have converged and will continue to do so unless the USA fragments).

John the First
John the First
Apr 7, 2022 1:09 AM
Reply to  Edwige

Tom Luongo was insufferable

People who have their website on a domain .me are in it for themselves.

vuorilotta
vuorilotta
Apr 7, 2022 7:54 PM
Reply to  Edwige

“Overall, the function of libertarians like Luongo and Zerohedge is to keep right opposition from looking at the private part of the Public-Private Partnership” – zing, exactly, touche! But those types aren’t really libertarian, are they, if they are OK with taxpayer funds being used to enrich certain people. The term has been hijacked, just like the rest.

mls
mls
Apr 8, 2022 7:53 AM
Reply to  Edwige

Putin didn’t return to the gold standard. Setting a purchase price in rubles for gold is not the same as backing your currency with gold.

Dylan Jones
Dylan Jones
Apr 5, 2022 4:04 PM

I see the Great Reset as simply an attempted reinstitution of slavery on the part of the Malthusian psychopaths at the top of the food chain. Depopulation – yes. Managing the stock of slaves on the plantation – eliminating the weak, sick & old and the troublemakers. Dehumanize and zombify the rest, controlling their expiry date and shackling them to chains of dew.

Technocracy is an outgrowth of Corporatocracy. Corporatocracy is the monopolisation of wealth and resources. Technocracy is the monopolisation of technology. The industrial revolution began with the industrialisation of the slave trade.

As to the tying of the gas to the Ruble and the Ruble to gold, I believe this fits perfectly into the West agenda, which is, in reality, covertly sanctioning its own population and setting up a controlled demolition of the fiat currency system. Where do you think the majority of the gold and silver has been spirited away?

That archetypal oligarch – John Law, when fleeing France after the collapse of the bubble that he had set up, was said to have had cartloads of gold and silver in tow. The debt-based system is also the perfect system for the covert building up of oligarch stockpiles of precious metals on the cheap. Stored until the fiat system – half of the parasitic cycle – is ripe for destruction. Monopoly on paper, digital credits and precious metals.

This mindset of the parasitic ruling class is ultimately the same in the eastern bloc which has adopted the same format. State Monopoly Capitalism is the same thing as State Monopoly Socialism. Do they compete with each other? Of course. Just as in the Godfather, the various Mafia dons were in and out of war, yet they cooperated when it was in their interest. Whoever wins, we will all still be under a protection racket.
But the one thing they all fear is the mass of people underneath them.

When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
https://hughboone.substack.com/p/covax-through-the-looking-glass-part-7?s=w

red_squirrel
red_squirrel
Apr 5, 2022 6:39 AM

I may be more difficult to get rid of Putin than some people thought…

comment image

Howard
Howard
Apr 5, 2022 3:35 AM

This kind of discussion would, I think, benefit from the kind of thumbnail presentation of the participants’ orientation given by Tom Luongo: “I’m a Libertarian.”

That goes a long way toward processing the particular perspectives given on particular issues – because it helps answer the viewer’s question: “Why do you believe this way and not another way?”

So while each of the participants was extremely articulate and thorough in giving their perspective on the issue(s) at hand, and in citing their qualifications, there remained this vacant spot where their orientation – their overall view of life – should have been.

Paul K Haeder
Paul K Haeder
Apr 5, 2022 2:30 AM

Yikes. The Russians know that USA, DARPA, etc., set loose the bioweapon. These guys are, well, not seeing the virus for the mandates . . . . Yes, COVID is real, and those experimental vaxxes are killers, and that passport crap is real, But, come on . . . .
check out: Welcome to Mengele’s Laboratory
The Epilogue to Golden Silkworms in Pandora’s Box – One Year Later
Harvard to the Big House . . . .Harvard2thebighouse . . . substack!

Fugazi Shoe-gazy
Fugazi Shoe-gazy
Apr 4, 2022 10:37 PM

Iain summarized it perfectly at the end. Tom saying he’s not putting a value judgment on it was telling to me – his argument seems to boil down to that China/Russia are going to win the “great game” east v west war and exact some sort of multipolar order due to the economic stuff. He wasn’t arguing against the 4th industrial revolutions actual thrust – because how could you? It’s obvious they’re implementing the same measures the west are. The great game is interesting to follow but the 4th industrial revolution is class war – Tom and Matt don’t seem to get that or care or think they’re doing it for noble reasons.

anonnymaus
anonnymaus
Apr 4, 2022 9:47 PM

Thanks ! – any way to download this ????

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Apr 4, 2022 11:32 PM
Reply to  anonnymaus

I’m not sure, I’ll look into that. A2

Phantasm
Phantasm
Apr 4, 2022 8:34 PM

Putin has ‘changed’ huh?
comment image

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Apr 4, 2022 10:11 PM
Reply to  Phantasm

Nothing unusual really; that’s the normal change our face undergoes between waking up fresh in the morning and getting home from work at night under this damned system.

Down with this system that rob us of our vitality!

mgeo
mgeo
Apr 5, 2022 10:08 AM

The facial recognition systems governments are buying with our money (and businesses are also buying at higher prices for us) do not cope with this. I know of a failure to recognise an official photo document that is around 7 years old.

Magpie
Magpie
Apr 5, 2022 9:22 AM
Reply to  Phantasm

Yes just like Biden

Phillis Stein
Phillis Stein
Apr 8, 2022 2:31 AM
Reply to  Magpie

And MANY more.

Phillis Stein
Phillis Stein
Apr 8, 2022 2:30 AM
Reply to  Phantasm

Indeed – you will see MANY such examples of this type of thing just at the moment and over the past few years especially. I also appear to have good facial recognition, and I can usually tell a different voice also.

Jozef Kolbe
Jozef Kolbe
Apr 4, 2022 8:25 PM

In places very informative, but in others disappointing. Firstly, well done to Iain Davis and especially to Riley Waggaman for so clearly showing how much Putin and Xi are part of the system, following the Covid pandemic line and more.

But then Kit Knightly put forward the idea that the war in Ukraine is not really about Ukraine, and amazingly enough they all agreed. How perceptive and profound… well, not really. Surely it’s about Ukraine to the Ukrainians? And surely it’s about Ukraine to Putin because it is the war in Ukraine, against the Ukrainians that he must now win! The rest of the debate seemed rather pointless, and it was actually Tom Luongo who put forward the best argument that all the Reset BS about sustainability is obviously unsustainable, no one is actually treating it seriously and why should they fret or be fearful of a bunch of inbred Eurotrash? Exactly.

So why have such nerdy discussions? Well no, it’s worse because the “not really about Ukraine” idea got taken up by  Matthew Ehret, who went on to suggest that the war was staged, that we were “made to believe”, that there were “crisis actors” and medals prepared in advance for those “unrepentant, unreconstructed Nazis” the Azov Regiment. Firstly, the Nazis were German members of a German political party that ceased to exist in 1945, and the Azov Battalion was founded in 2014, so the only connection I can see is Kremlin propaganda. Don’t get me wrong, OUN-UPA with their red and black flag did commit terrible crimes during and after WWII (I probably know more about it than you), but that’s also a different organisation. So why call people, who once the ammunition runs out, will soon probably be dead “unrepentant, unreconstructed Nazis”? Is it because it sounds remarkably similar to Kremlin slogans such as to  “de-Ukrainize passive Nazis”? And they really mean to do what they say. Take a look at some “crisis actors” in Ukraine.



And after the Azov Regiment is crushed, read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Prussian Nights  

antitermite
antitermite
Apr 5, 2022 12:20 AM
Reply to  Jozef Kolbe

I’m sure that the war is indeed very real.
But the vid featured above does show that at least some of it has been staged.

Per SouthFront:

– all the dead are lying face down;

– people lie mixed up a body with demonstratively tied hands is seen next to the dead without tied hands, someone is laying next to a bicycle, a few meters away there are bodies with white armbands (sign for civilians in the areas under the Russian control);

– there almost no blood near the dead who were allegedly shot dead by Russian servicemen at close range along the road;

– there are no women and children, only male bodies seen on the video;

– one of the dead is getting up

https://southfront.org/afu-crimes-in-bucha-kiev-region-false-flag-propaganda-attack-against-russia-revealed-photos-video/

Crisis actors indeed

Jozef Kolbe
Jozef Kolbe
Apr 5, 2022 2:31 PM
Reply to  antitermite

Yes, that’s exactly what the Russian ambassador to the UN would say, and indeed today he has. As per usual because that’s the standard Russian response: deny, deny, deny. And there is no shortage of corpses of women and children (often tortured and raped before their deaths),all the more reason to deny, deny, deny. And the body count has already exceeded 400, so it’s a massacre, so what, deny, deny, deny. And satellite pictures show bodies strewn in the streets for weeks before the Russian troops left, deny, deny, deny. And drone footage shows Russian tanks and armoured personnel carriers the exact moment the Ukrainian cyclist was killed, deny, deny, deny. And there is footage of the body of the same Ulkranian and his bicycle when the Ukrainian army arrived, deny, deny, deny. And despite the puddles, there isn’t enough blood, and one of the corpses moved, and all the witnesses are “crisis actors” (damn good ones – Meryl Streep couldn’t hold a candle to them), and an international inquiry is already underway, so deny, deny, deny. And if you deny for long enough, people will lose interest and forget, and then a couple of decades or centuries later, the absolutely worst perpetrators will be turned into Christian saints – that’s the Russian way. And the Russian army is always the same. Read Solzhenitsyn’s Prussian Nights and understand why he had to be arrested.

mls
mls
Apr 8, 2022 7:57 AM
Reply to  antitermite

I’m sure that the war is indeed very real.

Why? What have you seen that convinces you it’s real?

if both sides are essentially the same side why would the war need to be real?

In fact how do we define “real” at this point?

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Apr 4, 2022 5:10 PM

OT – Since the terms “Hegelian Dialectics” appear so many times in the comments, I thought why not learn once and for all what it is from the horse’s mouth? (Sorry Hegel)

Hegel explains what Dialectics and dialectical movement are in his Logic (1830). It’s a short read starting at page 147, paragraph 81 and note, or better still from the beginning of the chapter just four pages back.

Good reading

rraa
rraa
Apr 4, 2022 12:20 PM

It’s better to study history. The West’s ideological battle against Russia started at least in 1917 if not earlier…..long before that fossil, Schwab, was born..
At that time, Communism was anti-imperialist and anti-colonial. That’s why it was seen as so threatening. Now being sovereign and autonomous also makes one anti-Imperialist (UK/US/Irsrael/NATO empire) and therefore “BAD”. It’s a mistake to position Russia and Putin as some sort of anti-WEF crusader.

The problem with many in the non-mainstream media is that a large proportion of them are prejudiced against China and / or Communism but without any knowledge of either. It’s fine to be very very critical of either China or Communism etc. but by simply using these words as pejoratives and wondering whether Russia and China are “in on it”, they use the same reductionism as the mainstream mercenaries. Russia has come back after its experience of the 1990s. China has fought for prosperity and poverty reduction with its own models and highly decentralized and complex governance system. Both operate in a global economy or at least are trying to. Reducing everything to being either for or against the Great Reset is barking up the wrong tree.

I see the Great Reset as more of a “Great Hanging on to Imperial / Colonial Power by the Fingernails”…. The Great Reset is a fancy way of saying “we the elites need our lifestyles to stay the same, we need to control as much as we can in the only way we know how and this is what we’ve come up with”.

The model of liberal democracy / capitalism in NATOstan is now definitively a kleptocratic oligarchy staying in power with military force. Not one of it’s known faces or puppet leaders can walk around in public without a team of well armed bodyguards. Climate change, pandemic, terrorism whatever is just narratives to take taxpayer funds and keep the sheep obedient.

Fighting about whether Russia just wants a better seat at the table and whether or not it’s “resisting” or “complicit” just leads one on a wild goose chase to nowhere useful. It’s also possible that Russia is simply fighting for its autonomy and whether or not that sets back or pushes forward the so called Reset is merely a side effect.

I respect all the people on this panel but I don’t agree with the framing of the question and wonder if it’s worth watching? .

der einzige
der einzige
Apr 4, 2022 2:49 PM
Reply to  rraa

+1

Donald Duck
Donald Duck
Apr 5, 2022 6:53 PM
Reply to  rraa

+10

Thomas
Thomas
Apr 4, 2022 11:20 AM

UK Column ? Right wing loons wtf ?

rik myers
rik myers
Apr 4, 2022 9:34 AM

there is stupid and then there is this incredible paranoia gone over the edge crap. removing Neonazis, biowesapons labs, nuclear missile production and stopping slaughter of civilians in Donbass has no ulterior motive… is pushing for single payer health care some part of Bill Gate NWO totalitarian agenda? is there some ulterior motive to feeding my cat? get a grip and stop the wasted mental masturbation. i

Alanis
Alanis
Apr 4, 2022 10:24 AM
Reply to  rik myers

You love your cat, elites told you over and over and over how much they despise your useless eater’s existence, but you, brain dead moron, still think that you are special.

jacobus
jacobus
Apr 4, 2022 8:40 AM

Fascinating!! A rousing debate. I was riveted the whole 2 hours. Some very great minds discussing excellent questions.

Kit Knightly is my latest favorite alt-media pundit. He quietly, in his humble manner, stole the show as co-moderator of this debate.

I think that Kit should start a new religion. He would have quite a following.  🙂 

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Apr 4, 2022 8:54 AM
Reply to  jacobus

Haha 😂 I will pass this on. And thanks for your support. A2

Jacques
Jacques
Apr 4, 2022 7:30 AM

I’ve watched this twice. What I find interesting is two things.

First the mention of the discrepancy in the perception of time and the perception of the collective/individual dichotomy in the East/West/North/South. The general public is out to lunch regarding this, completely myopic, but there are major differences how stuff is perceived by people who do know what they’re talking about as well. I’d tend that I consider stuff from a very long perspective, but I’m probably more of a Kissinger than the Chinese fella as per Matthew’s remark.

Second, I was glad to see what looked like a real debate with debaters actually challenging one another. The discussions when the debaters are kissing each other’s ass are useless. People need to be confronted on their standpoints fiercely and made defend them. There’s no time for walking on eggshells so as not to offend somebody who might be talking nonsense. Shit like that leads nowhere.

Apart from the question about how and why depopulation is to take place, I wonder about deindustrialization. They wanna go back to caves or live in trees? Or scale down industrial production to cater to the projected circa one billion people?

COVIDsteria eBook
COVIDsteria eBook
Apr 4, 2022 5:33 AM

Tales From the Great Reset: I Went to the Ukraine to Play Call of Duty and Get Laid, But Got Banged Up Abroad InsteadAmerican Chad, a veteran of General Milley’s woke army, joined a Reddit battalion to fight in Ukraine & get laid; but he got more than he bargained for. This is his story of getting banged up abroad. https://covidsteria.substack.com/p/great-reset-tales-ukraine-reddit-battalion

comment image

susan mullen
susan mullen
Apr 4, 2022 5:12 AM

1/17/17, “If actually a sovereign state, Ukraine would have refused to receive Biden. But it seems that for the Kiev regime friendly backslappings by the U.S. boss are more important than their country’s national interests….The anti-terrorist operation in Donbass was preceded by the visit of U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and CIA Director John Brennan to Kiev. During that visit in Apr 2014, Biden was sitting at the head of the negotiating table, the place meant for the president of Ukraine-and was distributing directives to the representatives of the “sovereign” Maidan regime.“…1/17/2017, Farewell tour of “old Joe”: Biden’s last visit to Ukraine,” Eurasia Daily, Denis Gayevsky, Kiev

mgeo
mgeo
Apr 4, 2022 9:14 AM
Reply to  susan mullen

+1

niko
niko
Apr 3, 2022 11:53 PM
moneycircus
moneycircus
Apr 3, 2022 11:43 PM

On Feb 24, 2022, the day Russia invaded Ukraine we wrote:

The heart of president Vladimir Putin’s argument is the people: that Ukraine has failed its own population, economically and morally, whipping up a Nazi form of nationalism to pit them against those who are, historically, their own family.

To Western technocrats this will sound like populist rhetoric. Is there a role for “the Narod” in this argument? It is the explicit policy of the European Union and the United Nations to dilute culture and individual identity, which they see as a threat to communitarianism.

At the same time we argued:

Russia is on board with The Great Reset, proposed by the United Nations and the World Economic Forum. It broached the project’s goals before many Western countries. Former president Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Security Council of Russia, headed up the country’s innovation drive.

And finally we noted:

The Ukraine war is symmetrical with The Great Reset which shutters the messy small and mid-size businesses in the goal of a streamlined, centralized, corporate state.

See Moneycircus, Feb 24, 2022 — Eurasia note #23 – Russia Intervenes in Ukraine: The first war of The Great Reset dovetails with globalist objectives

The point is not forecasting or reading of tea leaves, which is a mugs’ claim, as the author knows having been a financial reporter for 30-plus years. But having reported from Russia during its economic crisis of 1998 and from Moscow for 10 years since the mid-2000s, certain strands are evident..

moneycircus
moneycircus
Apr 3, 2022 10:59 PM

By linking the rouble to gold, Putin has directly challenged the private owners of the Western central banks. Men have died for less. Gaddafi was bayonetted and the head of the French oil giant Total burned in his jet.

The challenge resounds from the hallowed halls of the Rothschilds’ Waddesdon Manor, to the airless rooms of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank in Washington DC and to the former-Nazi Bank for International Settlements in Basle.

Since the start of war in Ukraine we have argued that Russia’s strategy is qualitatively different from the lockstep of Western nations.

It is the move to link the currency to gold, however, which is likely to have the private owners of central banks seething. Ever since the central banks embarked on their money creation spree after the mortgage-backed securities fraud of 2008, they have denied that inflation would result from their printing oodles of cash to prop up asset prices and stop banks and pension funds going bust.

One of their tricks to hide inflation was to hold down the price of gold. Putin has exposed that policy by putting a floor under the gold price which now, at 5000 roubles per gram, can rise with the Russian currency, which in turn reflects the oil price.

https://moneycircus.substack.com/p/eurasia-note-40-gold-rouble-vs-central

rubberheid
rubberheid
Apr 3, 2022 10:30 PM

spheres of influence? otherwise folks, do remember we’re all in it together.

i’d love Russia/BRIC to be resisting clownland, but i ain;t sure about that.

they are possibly drawing lines in the sand for all to see, whilst behaving as all else otherwise. more clownland panto probably, unfortunately.

moneycircus
moneycircus
Apr 3, 2022 10:15 PM

Off-Guardian recently hosted an instructive roundtable with Whitney Webb’s UnLimited Hangout.

Although intended to address whether the war in Ukraine is a continuation of Covid — to which Moneycircus answers, yes — the debate displayed just how big and broad is the topic (the reason why articles on MC take a discursive approach, attempting to build understanding like a bricklayer: the reader will not find flat-pack, quick-assembly IKEA explanations, however frustrating that is.)

The debate revealed how prevalent, yet needless is disagreement on The Great Reset:

  • What is The Great Reset (TGR)?
  • Do Russia and China take part?
  • Has Russia been manhandled into the conflict, and thus into the Reset?

Some contributors displayed lack of knowledge of Russia’s recent history. For example, when Putin “fired” the oligarchs, it was not about replacing one set of oligarchs with another. It was his “offer you can’t refuse” to stay out of politics or lose your business — as the FSB/Siloviki did to Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

But the history that caused that move was the Harvard team of “advisors” in the time of president Boris Yeltsin who plainly intended to use dual-national oligarchs to seize by criminal means, the most valuable assets of Russia, while using the proceeds of that wealth to control the political scene.

https://moneycircus.substack.com/p/eurasia-note-40-gold-rouble-vs-central

Grace Johns
Grace Johns
Apr 4, 2022 4:20 AM
Reply to  moneycircus

That’s a great summing up and counterbalance argument MC> plus the musical interlude! They should have had you on the debate panel, better than Knightley who contributed zilch

coronistan.blogspot.com
coronistan.blogspot.com
Apr 3, 2022 9:20 PM

What Is The “Great Reset” And What Do The Globalists Actually Want? – https://alt-market.us/what-is-the-great-reset-and-what-do-the-globalists-actually-want/

rider
rider
Apr 3, 2022 8:59 PM

Edwige
Edwige
Apr 3, 2022 5:55 PM

Always nice to get lectures in “sacrifice” from a mega-billionaire, like the CEO of BlackRock:

https://www.cityam.com/blackrock-president-entitled-generation-should-prepare-to-sacrifice-amid-surging-inflation/

And how can there be a World Government Summit if there isn’t a world government?….

https://www.worldgovernmentsummit.org/events/annual-gathering-2022

Paul Watson
Paul Watson
Apr 3, 2022 4:05 PM

None of the deaths or adverse reactions were shock to the architects of the democide/genocide.
Need to find a new suitable word for this mass slaughter, because neither of the above are accurate.
The sheep volunteered to take the poison, many returning for a second, third and now a fourth.
None so dumb as humans when it comes to virtue signaling and believing in government and big corporations..

NickM
NickM
Apr 3, 2022 6:07 PM
Reply to  Paul Watson

“The sheeple volunteered to take the poison”.

Mass psychosis is not entirely voluntary. The German sheeple succumbed to Nazism with hypnosis by Hitler, propaganda from Goebbels and compulsion from the Police reinforcing their own atavistic impulses. Result: 4Million dead German sheeple (about 10% of the population) in 12 years.

It is too early to judge whether Con-19 sheeple have volunteered to commit collective suicide of comparable magnitude.

Borrow Fiat
Borrow Fiat
Apr 4, 2022 11:08 PM
Reply to  NickM

No. Paul Watson is correct.

Hypnosis ONLY works with the ACTIVE CONSENT of those who want to get hypnotized. If you look at human history, including contemporary history, you’ll witness one pattern – most people WANT to be deceived because they prefer cozy ignorance of reality over uncozy truth-seeking, they like fantasies over reality… take a closer look at The 2 Married Pink Elephants In The Historical Room

Most people should START “growing up” … when will you?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2022 3:53 PM

https://twitter.com/ana2145235105/status/1510242531501608963

Hilary proving that she is on woke-manufacturing automatic pilot.

Ort
Ort
Apr 3, 2022 8:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Pardon a pedantic nitpick, but The Empress-in-Waiting’s given name is spelled “Hillary”, with two “l”s– you know, like “Hell”. 😉

Mike Ellwood (Oxon UK)
Mike Ellwood (Oxon UK)
Apr 5, 2022 3:25 PM
Reply to  Ort

And of course: “kill”.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2022 3:30 PM

Mind fucks galore. This headline caught my attention:

If you haven’t had Covid-19 yet, a doctor reckons one of these 6 reasons is why

 
I tried to resist but thought, “Oh what the fuck!” It was on a site called Marie Clair and then I noted the hilarious subtitle

Backed by science

I then read,

If you haven’t had Covid yet, in news this week, a top doctor has a theory as to why that may be. Posting on Facebook, the medical professional, who is also vice president of the Korean Vaccine Society, claimed that if you’ve so far managed to avoid the infectious virus, it’s likely because you have no friends.

That sounded like the punchline to a very bad joke. And the “Korean Vaccine Society”? I felt I was starting to hallucinate and had to retreat. 

Howard
Howard
Apr 3, 2022 4:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Yes, and the moral of the story is that true friends never let a friend avoid a chance to alter their genes.

rubberheid
rubberheid
Apr 3, 2022 10:47 PM
Reply to  George Mc

haha i saw that one too, johnny nae pals, yep, if yer no’ in, yer oot.

yet, i got the same coviads as everyone else, same symptoms and all.. They all tested +ve, I tested -ve, so i never had covaids apparently, ; )

that was a PCR work insisted upon. but we know.

marie clair? did it smell of whale boak?

Backward
Backward
Apr 3, 2022 2:50 PM

Thank you, Davis and Riley brilliantly rocked the show and showed evidence that the system is one. I have been explaining this for years, too bad it’s impossible to shake the hopefuls from their delusions.

antitermite
antitermite
Apr 3, 2022 1:40 PM

Very stimulating discussion, lots of interesting viewpoints, I will need to go through it again (if I get time).
I particularly enjoyed hearing what Tom and Ian had to say, they are both very eloquent, though of differing opinions.

Perhaps the most pertinent point (for me) was Kit’s
– just as it makes no material difference whether covid-19 is a figment of imagination, or an actual virus with minimal effect
– it makes no material difference whether Russia’s leadership is in bed with the WEF, or whether they were goaded into a predictable response.

It seems to me, as simplistic & cliche as it sounds, that 1984 was an instruction manual.
A model for the “ideal” controlled society.
Although perhaps instead of Oceania – Eurasia – Eastasia, the world is just being split East vs West, and currently they are duking it out over where parts of Europe and the Global South end up.

The West will have its Unipolar Order, and the East will enjoy multipolarity.
To achieve these ends, the West is destroying culture, while the East is reviving theirs.

The similarities are that technocracy will rule both hemispheres, we will all be biometrically coded & QR’d.
We will all have digital currency & social credit scores.

Some random tidbits that I gathered from the debate (some of these my own wandering thoughts, alluded to but not discussed)
– East & West both fully on board with the covid scam & vax enforcement
– the fallout from Ukraine most definitely aimed at the common people, esp in Europe
– energy rationing is coming, and some unsustainable economic models. The string pullers are working on faulty premises.
– Dysgenesis hand in hand with eugenics, that is, transhumanism is for the 0.01%. Everyone else is to be turned into Morlocks (who might need to sell their organs to survive)
– Depopulation as an aim undecided. I am guessing that the West may go down this path, easier to implement unipolarity with a smaller pool.
– whilst the west seems owned by its oligarchs, the east is merely influenced by theirs, and is getting them under control / getting rid of them to the west
– black Swan events, these are supposed to be one in a generation, but ever since the War on Terror, we have been experiencing them with increased frequency

So in summary, we in the west are going to be fucked, unless we do something about these WEF clowns.
The east is probably not going back to what they’ve already experienced

rubberheid
rubberheid
Apr 3, 2022 10:57 PM
Reply to  antitermite

I think they have older manuals than orwell! but aye, fair comment, i agree…

but how do you get a visa to Russia if yer unvaxxzed ; )

antitermite
antitermite
Apr 5, 2022 12:28 AM
Reply to  rubberheid

Now that you mention it, some of these agendas (eugenics + dysgenics, one world order) existed way before Orwell – and he had to get his inspiration from somewhere!

Violet
Violet
Apr 3, 2022 12:38 PM

“Elites” Vs “Useless Eaters” and the AI wars.

https://youtu.be/rBJ8kkF8jWg

Edith
Edith
Apr 4, 2022 11:47 AM
Reply to  Violet

Someone needs to take him for a long walk and explain that he too is disposable and a useless eater…..his birthday indicates a man with a serious inferiority convex. Always dangerous bastards

Nigel Watson
Nigel Watson
Apr 3, 2022 12:31 PM

Personally, I think that Putin has always been part of the NWO. The war in Ukraine seems to be helping the World Economic Forum to advance several of its Great Reset goals – a coincidence theory, or something deliberately planned? Vladimir Putin pursues self-interest, but is his self-interest best advanced by representing the people of Russia or by representing the goals of Klaus Schwab at the World Economic Forum? What can’t be ignored is Putin’s decision to suspend US dollar payments for Russia’s oil and gas. Personally, I think it’s amazing that the MSM are not covering the likely consequences for the West, for the reasons I explain here 

Edwige
Edwige
Apr 3, 2022 12:25 PM

The Observer (the Fraud on Sunday) unsurprisingly pushing the technocratic dream:

https://dumptheguardian.com/science/2022/apr/03/scientists-must-be-free-to-communicate-without-politicians-spin

Of course if only scientists (aka “researchers”) could communicate without politicians getting in the way – then everyone would love GMOs and MMR jabs! (Seriously, those are her examples). It’s an attempt to create a fake dialectic where there’s ‘political’ communication which is tainted spin and ‘scientific’ communication which is unspun pure truth. As if no scientist wanted funding, had an agenda, opertaed on unproven assumptions, had another scientist who disagreed with them, was simply mistaken…

Fox happens to be a 666. Just a coincidence. Fiona is 6666 which reduces to 33. Another coincidence.

Technocracy would be a world run by Albert Speers – what a nightmare!

Orthus
Orthus
Apr 3, 2022 1:23 PM
Reply to  Edwige

Fiona Fox, anther Trot willing to accept medals from the Tory Party. The Science Media Centre (the excuse for her efforts) is funded by the biotech industry and is enthusiastic about GM technology.

Previously she was best known for an article about the Rwandan genocide — controversial because she seems to have been in favour. Living Marxism and its graduates tend to be keen on genocide.

rider
rider
Apr 3, 2022 10:06 AM

Saturday and Wednesday
Heavy Chemtrails 7am – 9am
Rain 10am
Cold breeze 12 midday
Sun 14.00
Hail /Snow 17.00
4 seasons totally normal 

rubberheid
rubberheid
Apr 3, 2022 11:05 PM
Reply to  rider

I’ve been up and out 6 sharp either side of the clock change. chemtrailcity, every morning.

had fake snow/hail last week falling out clear blue sky (other than these small, odd clouds) honest. You could hear the snow fall like a clump of perlite. it was hard and odd, like perlite. I never paid it long enough attention to record its melt.

by comparison, the day before we had “real” snow – pretty cold, easterly, big dry snowflakes, dry as ice on the wind.

fuk knows man, i don’t trust no cloud no more!!!

NickM
NickM
Apr 3, 2022 10:06 AM

Rubles for Gas — Russian spokesman Dmitry Orlov’s comment:

“This makes it clear. Deposit some of your freshly printed fiat EU$A currency in the Russian bank and let that Russian bank try to sell it on the internal Russian market for rubles. For the amount of rubles your deposit in EU$A currency bought in Russia, Russia will supply you with Russian gas priced in Russian Rubles. If your own EU$A sanctions make your EU$A currency frozen in Russia, and there are no Russian buyers for your deposit of EU$A currency, then no Russian gas for you.”

The EU$A bayoneted Gadhaffi for wanting oil in dinars, and hung Saddam for wanting payment in Euro. Now let’s see the EU$A goons of NATZO man up to Putin for wanting payment in Rubles.

mgeo
mgeo
Apr 3, 2022 12:52 PM
Reply to  NickM

Gaddhafi: it was a bit more crude than bayonetting.

Ort
Ort
Apr 3, 2022 8:54 PM
Reply to  mgeo

We also would have accepted “sadistic”.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2022 9:57 AM

Here’s a link that seems to be “doing the rounds”:

https://twitter.com/sonia_elijah/status/1509999817816223757

“The lessons that should have been learned from ….”

Well you see, the moment I read those words I think, “Nah, you don’t get it at all.” Lessons that “should have been learned” and aren’t are not lessons at all but distracting “talking points” which actually have the effect of sanctioning the disguise of further attacks.

Phil Greaves gets it:

“Classic damage limitation. “Why didn’t the pfarma fascists stealing trillions from public treasuries and exterminating who they call ‘useless eaters’ learn their lesson with the equally fascist swine flu scam? Tut tut mistakes have been made again..”

moneycircus
moneycircus
Apr 3, 2022 10:08 AM
Reply to  George Mc

The latest document release from Pfizer shows they knew about ADE. Yet the FDA waved everything through on the grounds that “no new safety issues have been raised”.

Strictly that is correct. No new issues that they didn’t already know about. This is why it is not appropriate to say there are lessons to be learned.

Except by we the people, who should, once bitten be twice shy.

https://tapnewswire.com/2022/04/newly-published-pfizer-documents-prove-pfizer-the-fda-knew-antibody-dependent-enhancement-would-happen/

Placental_Mammal
Placental_Mammal
Apr 3, 2022 9:54 AM

Meanwhile….

The clot shot continues to take it’s toll….

AFL in shock as former Roos recruit dies at 21 (msn.com)