74

REVIEW: The Zone of Interest by Martin Amis

VN alexander

In Martin Amis’ The Zone of Interest (2014), set in a Nazi death camp, the Commander, Paul Doll, has his wife, Hannah, and two daughters living with him in the “zone,” where the smell of rotting flesh from the mass graves functions as a persistent clue that things have gone very, very wrong in the world.

How did the German civilians go about their lives and continue to be human beings in such an atmosphere? That’s the question that must have compelled Amis to write this novel. While no sane person can fully imagine the answer to that question, Amis creates a few plausible stories that people might have told themselves.

In alternating chapters, three first-person narrators give their perspectives. Romantic playboy Angelus Thomsen (aka Golo) opens with a Werther-reminiscent description of Hannah Doll as a German giantess Hera incarnate. A romance in a death camp? Impossible. I almost put the book down; in fact, I did for years, but then last month I picked it back up.

When Thomsen pays a first visit to her house, he notes that Hannah:

leaned over and over rummaged in a flowerpot on a low shelf … to tell the truth, in my amatory transactions I hadn’t had a decent thought in my head for seven or eight years (earlier, I was something of a romantic. But I let that go). And as I watched Hannah curve her body forward, with her tensed rump and one mighty leg thrown up and out behind her for balance, I said to myself: this would be a big fuck. A big fuck: that was what I said to myself.

This is how the story begins, but after the first chapter it became clear that Amis wasn’t going to attempt to write about sex or a romance, and I kept going. We find that Thomsen is not a typical Nazi; he is a tweed-wearing civilian liaison between the military and manufacturers, and we learn that he is the privileged nephew of Hitter’s top advisor. That, in combination with ideal German good looks, gives Thomsen the latitude to be optimistic about cuckholding the genocidal fool running the camp.

Amis certainly sets a challenge for himself to write about love between “good” Germans in the midst of frenzied slaughter, worsening with every loss in the field, as they spiral out of the moral universe at light speed.

Following a parabolic character arch, Thomsen is soon is too concerned about Hannah to dare think of putting her at risk. His romantic impulse returns (and layers itself upon the lust, which does not diminish). Thomsen’s turning point comes when he happens to be out for a walk and finds Hannah napping in a gazebo. After watching her sleep for some time, he admits, “I felt something happen to the sources of my being. Everything I had waived and ceded made itself known to me. And I saw, with self-detestation, how soiled and shrunken I had let my heart become.”

Although Thomsen has “let go” many of the atrocities he has witnessed, he begins to resist his active part in helping the machine run. He is in charge of getting a city-sized factory, for making ethanol and rubber, up and running. When completed, the factory would give Germany self-sufficiency. Though this might not bring victory for the Germans, Thomsen understood it would drag the war out much longer, so he sees to it that one of the British prisoners adds sand to the machinery, a crime for which Thomsen is eventually imprisoned as the war grinds to a halt.

The second narrator is Commander Paul Doll, the Old Boozer, grotesque, thrice “bemedalled (Iron Cross, Silver Wand Badge, SS Honor Ring),” who stood “with his legs absurdly apart, rocking on his heels.” The Commander is dealing with the inconvenient problem that the mass graves his camp has supplied with 100,000+ bodies (before they got the crematory going) are leaching into the aquifers and poisoning the local water supply. He is charged with the task of digging the nearly liquefied remains up and then burning them. It is an engineering problem on a massive scale. But it is his smarter sidekick Szmul, a Jewish inmate, who helps contrive a scooping machine as well as a device to catch the melting fat so that it could be reused as fuel.

Throughout the story Commander Doll is almost always drunk and his main function is to inform newly arrived evacuees that they will be cared for and housed and that they should all undress and go into a shower room for a good delousing. He is aware no one believes him, but he plays his ridiculous part because undressing dead bodies would be difficult and time-consuming.

Amis works hard to imagine what sort of struggles such a man as Paul Doll might have, and he tries to locate his vulnerabilities, because even the most evil people have them; they may have more than most, in fact. In a masterfully dark comic scene, Amis reveals that Doll is intimidated by a trainload of well-educated wealthy French Jews who, he imagines, look down on the Germans for the uncouth way in which they are proceeding with their final solution. As the newly arrived prisoners stand on the platform, a truck carrying bodies appears at exactly the wrong time:

Here it came, that wretched, that accursed lorry, the size of a furniture van yet decidedly uncouth—positively thuggish—in aspect, its springs creaking and its exhaust pipe rowdily backfiring, barnacled in rust, the green tarpaulin palpitating, the profiled driver with the stub of a cigarette in his mouth and his tattooed arm dangling from the window of his cab. Violently it braked and skidded, jolting to a halt as it crossed the rails, its wheels whining for purchase. Now it slumped sickeningly to the left, the near sideflap bellowed skyward, and there—for 2 or 3 stark seconds—its cargo stood revealed.

It bothers Doll that the Jews judge him as barbaric, unable to commit genocide in a manner befitting the Aryan nation. We understand that embarrassment fuels much of Doll’s hatred and vengeance.

The third narrator is Szmul, a Jewish prisoner who keeps a diary, which he will bury in a hedgerow near the Commander’s house for historians to find. Szmul and a dozen other men like himself are in charge of ushering the evacuees into the gas chamber, then later dragging the bodies out, searching their orifices for valuables, removing gold teeth and cutting their hair (to be sold for wigs). Every little bit to finance the war effort. The men who perform these services for their captors are called Sonders (special) and are rewarded with extra rations.

Szmul notes, “A hero, of course, would escape and tell the world. But it is my feeling that the world has known for quite some time. How could it not, given the scale?”

Every morning at dawn these witnesses talk with each other, eyes averted. Sometimes they consider warning the evacuees of what’s coming, to create panic on the platform and make the whole process more difficult for the Commander. But in the end, they continue to keep everyone calm so that the terror only last for fifteen minutes once they are crowded into the gas chamber. This is how the Sonders justify not committing suicide. When the new arrivals detrain, the Sonders go through the crowd and whisper to young men telling them to say they have a trade so that they won’t be killed immediately. In this way, they are able to save (or prolong), on average, one life per transport.

The novel is increasingly concerned with the fact that the Germans are losing to the Russians. The term Schadenfreude was never so apt; it describes this reader’s feeling so well. It was satisfying to read about the how the Nazis were realizing that their plans were falling apart under their own horrid weight. As Szmul observes,

A bewildered lull settles on the Lager after the German defeat in the east. It is like an attack—and I admit to bathos—of mortal embarrassment. They see the size of their gamble on victory; the fantastic crimes legalised by the state, they finally understand, are still illegal elsewhere.

Although the first-person is the best narrative device for putting the reader in the character’s head, which is what Amis seeks to do, the three narrators all sound a bit too like Amis, fond of the sonic quality of language, witty, capable of very compact descriptions, and British (Thomsen quotes Auden). Perhaps limited ironic third-person would have been a better choice for Paul Doll, and perhaps for Angelus Thomsen too, to parody their internal dialog and to betray the person’s often self-deluded perspective. But I never suspended my disbelief and was always aware of what Amis was doing with his puppets. He doesn’t portray the thoughts of someone like Doll realistically, but tainted with his judgment. Szmul muses that “Somebody will one day come to the ghetto or the Lager and account for the near-farcical assiduity of the German hatred.”

This is, I think, what Amis does very well.

Amis is one of my favorite writers, and I must confess an envious thought or two went through my head as I was reading, Oh sure, that’s a powerful image, both horrible and comical at the same time, but what writer couldn’t write profoundly about such a subject? It’s the proverbial side of the barn. And I also wondered why he doesn’t apply his talent to more contemporary holocausts. Seems there’s plenty to choose from, some ongoing.

But Amis has been obsessed with WWII death camps for decades. After Times Arrow (1991), in which Amis made sense of the Holocaust by narrating it in reverse, he wrote the non-fiction book Koba the Dread (2002) which explores that machinations of Stalin’s holocaust. Next Amis gave us The House of Meetings (2007) which further explores Stalin’s atrocities in fictional form. Amis has given us valuable insight that we might use some day. The cattle cars stand in wait for the next time. We humans really do need to learn from history.

I finally chose to return to this novel now, at this time, because lately people have been saying that they are beginning to understand how the Germans could let genocide happen. I can’t help but recognize that, here I am, in November 2021, a good citizen, and this week a 13-year-old girl in my neighborhood, who got the shot, has been in the ICU in a coma, unable to breathe on her own, suffering constant seizures from an autoimmune response, as her own body attacks her nerves and her brain. What did I do to warn her mother? What did I do to try to shut down the pop-up shot clinic at her school? Not enough.

You get used to smells, even bad ones. You don’t notice them anymore; you cannot smell your own scent, except when it changes. When the train arrived at the death camp, there was always the characteristic odour to greet the new prisoners. Doll noticed, “some of our newcomers were sniffing it with upward jerks of their heads.” But they tell themselves it can’t possibly be what it seems to be, and even after they see the rotting corpses in the truck, Amis tells us, they “were utterly incapable of absorbing what they had just seen.”

Genocide is unbelievable, no matter how many time history tries to convince us that it does sometimes happen.

V.N. Alexander, V. N. Alexander (vnalexander.com), Ph.D., is a philosopher of science and novelist, who has just completed a new satirical novel, C0VlD-1984, The Musical.

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Koba
Koba
Jun 2, 2023 2:42 PM

“Koba the Dread (2002) which explores that machinations of Stalin’s holocaust”
What Stalin Holocaust is this like? Fun fact 99% of all anti Stalin folk are peddling bollocks.

Ronald
Ronald
Jun 1, 2023 1:17 AM

Genocide through gas chambers is a nonsense upon the face of it.
No self respecting German engineer would come up with such a ludicrous method as what’s touted.
Cattle cars and concentration camps for sure. Ugly enough without mass gassing….

Placental Mammal
Placental Mammal
May 31, 2023 11:27 PM

Rotting Flesh ?

But a chap on another thread claimed there were enough ovens to do the job. So which version is true ?

Howard
Howard
May 31, 2023 4:23 PM

I hope it won’t appear I’m trivializing this issue if I compare holocaust denial to virus denial. Both seem very cut and dried: it either existed or it didn’t. But the devil, as they say, is in the details. Just as the No-Virus proponents have a lot to account for besides the virus itself, so too do the No-Holocaust proponents have a lot to account for. What of all the gathering of peoples to be sent to the concentration camps? From places like Poland, Croatia, Ukraine? Was that a ruse? if not, where did they go? what happened to them? Clearly they did not all secretly go to the Middle East or else someone in the Middle East would have noticed – and complained. And back then the MSM did not have the stranglehold on public information that they do today; so something would have been reported somewhere. Comparing the… Read more »

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jun 1, 2023 2:37 AM
Reply to  Howard

Yes, I agree to a point – simply too many accounts of deaths and images which are perfectly credible … and while there are numerous stories of miraculous savings of life, the stories have credibility while the 9/11 miracle survival stories have zero credibility. http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/2003/n_9189/ In the case of the no-virus proponents, they say no virus has been proven to exist according to the scientific method and I think that is a fair claim. Mark Bailey, Mike Stone and others have looked at numerous scientific papers purporting the proof of one virus or another and they explain how the experimental process in every single case is unscientific. However, there is a vacuum one would like to fill in terms of what does cause a lot of the illness said to be caused by viruses. But then look at it this way – there are an awful lot of conditions we… Read more »

Woowoo
Woowoo
May 31, 2023 1:10 PM

OffG seems to be pushing this H narrative a lot a the moment.
why…?

john dann
john dann
May 30, 2023 10:06 PM

Sorry to hear of the death of Martin Amis at a relatively young age.

Vagabard
Vagabard
May 30, 2023 11:41 PM
Reply to  john dann

Oddly, Martin Amis died on the same day that “The Zone of Interest” film premiered (19th May, 2023). And also at the same age as his father Kingsley, 73.

Though, he’d probably argue that 73 isn’t that young. Dickens, Shakespeare etc dying in their 50s

john dann
john dann
May 30, 2023 9:49 PM

Constantly reliving the horrors of the Nazis of almost a century ago, does help us ignore the Nazis in Ukraine and in NATO today, to turn a blind eye to the followers of Stepan Barndera in the US, Canada, and the family history of people like Chrysta Freeland. We can focus on the slaughter of the Jews and forget that 3 million Russian POWs died, including Stalin’s son. We can take as normal the overt fascism of our current corporate/government marriage and ignore the oligarchy we live under today which treats us all as slaves. Let us never forget, or we may start to see.

Mr Y
Mr Y
May 30, 2023 2:09 PM

The Evil Germans, eh. At this point in time, how were the Jews seen in other parts of Europe?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
May 30, 2023 8:50 AM

So he could wax lyrical about Nazi Germany but essentially he was clueless:

From interview:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2020-10-09/martin-amis-on-cancel-culture-mourning-and-what-hitchens-might-have-made-of-2020

Q: You state in “Inside Story” that the 9/11 attacks made writing feel irrelevant at the time. Fiction was “partly a form of play,” you write, while reality was now “earnest.” How does it feel 19 years later to be publishing a novel in the midst of a pandemic?

A: The terrorist attacks were much more shocking to me than has been the coronavirus, which crept up on us. It was a thunderclap at the time, and I felt sort of canceled out by Sept. 11. But when I spoke to Zadie Smith about this at the time, she said: “Yes, but your fighting spirit gets going,” and it does, and it did.

Posthumous
Posthumous
May 30, 2023 2:09 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Disappointing, yes. The big novelists have to wait a generation or two before they touch a controversial topic. Dickens, for instance. It’s easier to satirize dead targets. By the way, I wrote a 9/11 novel Locus Amoenus.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
May 31, 2023 1:31 PM
Reply to  Posthumous

Hmmm, so at least one part of the story based on reality is death … but the propaganda strategy for 9/11 was the fake binary (see Catte’s article, https://off-guardian.org/2022/05/16/the-function-of-the-fake-binary/).

We were given two choices:

A. Terrorists did it
B. US government did it

when the reality was C:
the US government (with a great deal of collaboration and complicity) was responsible but they staged the death and injury – which isn’t to say that no one died or was injured.

The fake binary propaganda strategy is used in most big psyops and it’s important to recognise it.

Both the believers and disbelievers of the official story must accept miracles and other nonsense … unless they dig a little deeper.
https://petraliverani.substack.com/p/both-believers-and-disbelievers-of

Posthumous
Posthumous
May 31, 2023 6:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I agree with you 100%.

Vagabard
Vagabard
May 30, 2023 7:00 AM

The wife of an Auschwitz death camp commandant would likely qualify as one of the weirdest muses in literary history. Though the film version was apparently well received at the 2023 Cannes festival:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zone_of_Interest_(film)

Aside from the character’s private lives, the novel was apparently fairly accurate historically

les online
les online
May 30, 2023 1:07 AM

Let’s face it – the politicians dont trust us…
It doesnt matter how Good a boy you try to be, you are never Good Enough…
The bastards just dont trust us, that’s a dead cert !!

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
May 29, 2023 11:34 PM

I posted one of the first comments and now it’s not there. It has been suppressed by OffG?

DM:
DM:
May 30, 2023 1:54 AM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

It happens.

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
May 30, 2023 9:04 AM
Reply to  DM:

It’s very disappointing. It seems OffG is just as sensitive to the holohoax and does not want any truth posted in case it upsets the jewish lobby. All other lies and scams can be tackled but not the holohoax, which is a undeserved blight on the people of Germany.

Will - Admin3
Admin
Will - Admin3
May 30, 2023 9:11 AM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

*sigh* No you didn’t.

Talk about the “holohoax” to your heart’s content. You’re clearly very proud of the wordplay.

X

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
May 30, 2023 2:09 PM
Reply to  Will - Admin3

Yes i did, ‘sigh’. It seems talking honestly about one of the most successful scams to date isn’t allowed on OffG. If that’s the case then just say so.

Ronald
Ronald
Jun 1, 2023 1:20 AM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

The holocaust and no virus.
The both are a no go zone it seems…

Mr Y
Mr Y
May 30, 2023 1:40 PM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

> I posted one of the first comments and now it’s not there. It has been suppressed by OffG?

Maybe you posted the comment on a different site?

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
May 30, 2023 2:11 PM
Reply to  Mr Y

Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely posted. Maybe the truth is too much for some?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 30, 2023 2:21 PM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

Yes, we’re terrified of your truth, which is why you’re completely free to post the fact right here.

Sometimes comments go astray, try to get used to the fact.

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
May 29, 2023 11:00 PM

I think we can safely say that Hitler blamed the Jews for the economic malaise that beset the world and that he wanted their businesses shut down and have them deported. He had made deals with leading Zionists to that effect. Other countries took them in, if they brought trunks full of money, such as Switzerland, and people smugglers made money off those unfortunate Jewish people fleeing on boats to American (only to be offloaded on off-shore sandbanks and to be drowned at sea when the tide returned). So, there were guilty and psychopathic people involved across the world. However, I’m having doubts as to the systematic incineration of Jews (and Communists, Gays, regime critics, etc.) after some reading of revisionist literature, including texts written by Jewish people. Here’s one site that claims to be impartial and open to information contrary to what they have in their archive for a… Read more »

Miro
Miro
May 29, 2023 10:15 PM

As for the possibility or impossibility of a relationship/romance.. in a death camp: Please read Rudolf Vrba’s book “I Escaped from Auschwitz” and you will see that impossible things can be quite possible. Greetings.

George Mc
George Mc
May 29, 2023 8:06 PM

I also wondered why he doesn’t apply his talent to more contemporary holocausts.

How dare you! You are trivializing the suffering of millions with that utterly uncomprehending foulness! Don’t you know history began in the 1930s and ended in 1945? Don’t you know that geography consists entirely of Germany? Don’t you know that there was only one Holocaust and any reference to it must be vetted by The Experts Who Know The Truth? Don’t you know that we must never forget something that we must never ask about and have any understanding of?

Proletarius64
Proletarius64
May 29, 2023 9:17 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Sweet..

mgeo
mgeo
May 30, 2023 5:44 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Above all, never compare any tragedy to the Supreme Tragedy.

Hamish
Hamish
May 31, 2023 5:18 PM
Reply to  mgeo

Do you mean the Armenian genocide or the Holodomor?

Koba
Koba
Jun 2, 2023 2:48 PM
Reply to  Hamish

What holodomor? The soviets sent grain and all sorts to Ukraine.

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 29, 2023 7:15 PM

People who are exposed to torture deny mentally what happens doesnt happen and didnt happen.
They block. Children do the same when they cant handle what happen just now, for example a stupid adult..

Maybe its the same mechanism during this nottobenamed scam period.

Gonzogone
Gonzogone
May 29, 2023 6:46 PM

I’ll read it if it has leather lampshades and soap (both made-up by the authors of that grim tale of victimhood). Yawwwn… the Germans were such sadists really, weren’t they??? Genocide is unbelievable, no matter how many time history tries to convince us that it does sometimes happen. Indeed, indeed. How did the German civilians go about their lives and continue to be human beings in such an atmosphere? Most Germans did not vote for Hitler ( who was actually voted into power many years before the war using the same shambolic “democratic” system we have today) and there were no ally reports of a H0l0caust when they entered Germany in 1944. It’s safe to assume most Germans did not become aware of any genocide (probably because there wasn’t any) other than the global war that went on for 4 years. If they lived/died in Dresden they may have seen… Read more »

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 29, 2023 7:19 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

“Wenn das der Führer wüsste“. The Germans believed in their Leader.

Gonzogone
Gonzogone
May 29, 2023 9:36 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

In fact it looks like the camps were hastily set up with shoddy infrastructure after the Nazis failed to reach an agreement with the Zionist organisation (who wanted a tragedy) about deportation so they came up with a plan B which was work to death in a forced labor camp.

The idea the Nazis would waste enormous amounts of fuel to incinerate 6 million (or was it 5 million) bodies in those camps, in the middle of an insane war effort against the USSR (their main threat) and the rest of the “Allies”, is laughable to the extreme. There were never 6 million dead in those camps, the remains were never found despite thorough digging of the entire areas, the fuel was never there to burn them, nor the incinerators.

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 29, 2023 10:16 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

But….couldnt we say the substance of this genocide is that communists, joos, JW’s, disabled, coloured were murdered due to racist supremacy fascist ideology?
So the crime against the daily life joos were there. The Zionists were on the contrary secure everywhere, and this is the real crime story.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
May 29, 2023 11:09 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

In fact it looks like the camps were hastily set up with shoddy infrastructure after the Nazis failed to reach an agreement with the Zionist organisation (who wanted a tragedy)

Source?

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
May 29, 2023 11:28 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

Why does everyone get all blasé about the way Jews were treated in WW2, as if 1.1 million as opposed to 6 (or whatever various revisionists say) was just a walk in the park?

And what’s a few cattle cars, honestly, bloody Jews always complaining about those cattle cars and ghettos and being turned into industrial byproducts, having their gold fillings shipped back to Germany etc. (sarcasm).

Holocaust imagery – drilled into every child for the past 60 years – played no small part in helping to deescalate Covid authoritarianism. Yet we’re apparently happy just to trash it at a moment’s notice.

The hubristic complacence really puzzles me.

mgeo
mgeo
May 30, 2023 6:00 AM
Reply to  Gonzogone

– I do not understand the squeamishness over the use of gas. I strongly favour using poison gas against uncivilised tribes. It would spread a lively terror. -Winston Churchill, 1920
– Between 1940-06 and 1945-05, British and US forces bombed 1,570 French cities and towns, killing 68,778 civilians. – Wikipedia, 2019
– Churchill initiated the covert bombing of German civiians; USA followed. A raid on one city killed 50,000 people, and a raid on another killed 40,000. This was to provoke a raid on London. The British Air Force rejected Churchill’s order to use poison gas on Germany, and to reduce Rome to rubble. At the end of the war, Britain and USA killed 100,000 at Dresden. Churchill personally directed the war like Hitler, producing one misadventure after another. -David Irving’s book quoted by Paul Roberts, 2019

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 30, 2023 1:22 PM
Reply to  mgeo

What is your point? It’s not a competition. The fact the Nazis were evil doesn’t preclude Churchill or anyone else being evil too.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
May 29, 2023 6:31 PM

There are excellent historical and even eye witness accounts of this period. You really don’t need to make stuff up.

One source book that’s worth looking at is “In Broad Daylight” by Father Patrick Desbois. Its written using material from numerous eye witnesses and its message is that “Genocide doesn’t happen without the neighbors” (or rather, in a vacuum — people notice). In it you’ll find out how to manage burying hundreds of bodies while maintaining a semblance of public health — yes, its all thought out, right down to calculating hole sizes, organizing the digging and refilling, quantities of lime needed and so on.

NixonScraypes
NixonScraypes
May 29, 2023 5:43 PM

I saw a recent video of Matt Hancock, the Midazolam Kid on twitter, he seems to have earned his spurs. From the rather beige, slightly apologetic, not over confident covid minister, he’s developed into a real uncompromising, masterful thug.

Freecus
Freecus
May 29, 2023 3:42 PM

Genocide is unbelievable, no matter how many time history tries to convince us that it does sometimes happen.

Very true, we have a tendency to over-analyze the “effects” rather than the “cause”.
Comprehending that so many of these large scale events are planned-out decades ahead is very destabilizing, most will shift their attention elsewhere.
Over-analyzing the targeted population, or the middle-managers, benefits the planners.

October
October
May 29, 2023 2:32 PM

OT: ‘Bored’ Caitlin now trying to backpedal on her tolerance of ‘pandemic measures’

https://twitter.com/DanielLMcAdams/status/1663003250830856192

Because, says she:

I felt it was necessary to keep my crosshairs on Washington’s “great power conflict” while that was happening instead of taking weeks off to do the scientific research I’d need to do to feel confident making any strong statements about a less serious issue.

She really is a disgusting piece of work.

TRT
TRT
May 29, 2023 3:51 PM
Reply to  October

She’s an obvious fraud. Why does anyone like/follow her? Her ability to be so condescending when blatantly wrong is truly impressive. This one is my favourite:

“My decision to focus on nuclear brinkmanship with Russia and China over vaccines and lockdowns has been thoroughly vindicated by history.”

If she truly believes this, she is as delusional as they come. Although I’m sure she has made an impact in the prevention of WWIII. Thanks Caitlin!

October
October
May 29, 2023 4:02 PM
Reply to  TRT

Yup, she’s the type who dares to be arrogant when she’s been caught lying. It’s almost something to admire, in its utter revoltingness.

Lizzyh7
Lizzyh7
May 29, 2023 8:23 PM
Reply to  October

Just like our owners, isn’t she? Smug. Arrogant. A seemingly good liar when necessary. She provides a handy excuse and comfort for those who went along with the mandates, lockdowns, shaming, job loss, and all that talk about incarcerating the unvaccinated, etc. Now that some of them have seen just what is on the other side of that little wall, she’s issuing her mea culpa and giving her fans one as well. She’s nothing special at all, she’s one of far too many who scream that they “didn’t know” when they had both the intellectual capability and the time to do their own research. And it’s not like one had to do a lot of digging to find out that even the owners were saying the magic shot does not make one immune, does not stop transmission and is not even a guarantee against “getting covid.” Disgusting. But hey, I’m… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
May 30, 2023 6:23 AM
Reply to  Lizzyh7

does not make one immune, does not stop transmission
Always keep in mind whether there was anything to be immune against or to transmit to others. Moreover, most of the related totalitarianism – including confinement to hospitals, inappropriate treatment and withholding of urgent reliable treatment for real illnesses – was intended to boost the statistics.

Posthumous
Posthumous
May 31, 2023 6:55 PM
Reply to  Lizzyh7

All true. But still sad that she got herself injected and may eventually feel the karma.

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 29, 2023 7:33 PM
Reply to  October

Her point is, its better to be in a concentration camp than be nuked. Who can argue against that :-D?

TRT
TRT
May 29, 2023 7:37 PM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

I’d rather be nuked.

October
October
May 29, 2023 8:02 PM
Reply to  TRT

Well said.

But there could be a positive way of looking at it. She is using a new placating tone which might suggest to some of her fawning admirers that she has been on the wrong side of this all along.

les online
les online
May 30, 2023 1:14 AM
Reply to  TRT

After the Bomb is dropped the local hospital will be manned by a skeleton crew…

October
October
May 29, 2023 7:57 PM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

She would rather others were hauled off to a concentration camp than she be nuked, you mean.

George Mc
George Mc
May 29, 2023 7:36 PM
Reply to  October

I take it that you would not concur with this view from Philip Roddis:

I know of no one alive who can hold a candle to Caitlin Johnstone as a warrior for truth. Big hearted and witheringly intelligent, her words cut through the crap and the cant with unfailing accuracy.

That’s the kind of thing you read and …. well, what can you say?

I mean really. I had intended to go into some big spiel there but on reading those words again I feel this immense deflation. Perhaps a couple of pain killers and an early bed would help?

October
October
May 29, 2023 7:54 PM
Reply to  George Mc

OMFG! I didn’t know her routine was that successful. Withering, perhaps, intelligent? Not as much. And a great deal less honest.

George Mc
George Mc
May 29, 2023 7:58 PM
Reply to  October

On perusing Caitlin’s comments charting her …umm … bold determination to tackle the …umm … real problems of war in Ukraine, I realise that that old Ukraine manoeuvre was a huge bell chime to signal the resumption of Good Old Leftie Gripe Time. And with nary a flicker of the eye they bolted back to the benches for The Big Fret. You know the one. The one that makes a lot of noise and leaves you feeling “Yeah Right On! Tell it like it is!” … but which leaves not the slightest hint of an actual detail about anything that anyone can actually put their finger on. Evidence for the prosecution? Well, have a look at the post that so impressed Philip: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2023/05/12/you-dont-have-to-choose-between-happiness-and-being-informed/ Did Caitlin prove herself as a warrior for truth? Was she big hearted and witheringly intelligent? Did she cut through the crap and the cant with unfailing… Read more »

October
October
May 29, 2023 8:55 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I only skimmed through those effusions, but I’m a better person already.

Meanwhile, she continues to dig…  😂 

Straight Talk
Straight Talk
May 29, 2023 1:35 PM

The Roots Of Modern Eco-Terrorism: From MK Ultra And The Unabomber To Maurice Strong And Yuval Harari “A century after the Civil War, President Kennedy also took aim at the rot of the closed system ideologues then beginning to latch onto the levers of policy and culture saying:  “Malthus argued a century and a half ago that man, by using up all his available resources, would forever press on the limits of subsistence, thus condemning humanity to an indefinite future of misery and poverty. We can now begin to hope and, I believe, know that Malthus was expressing not a law of nature, but merely the limitation then of scientific and social wisdom.” …it isn’t technology which is intrinsically good or evil, nor is overpopulation a genuine problem, but rather it is our willingness to tolerate evil ideas shaping the behaviour of technology and political systems that results in those… Read more »

Gonzogone
Gonzogone
May 29, 2023 10:02 PM
Reply to  Straight Talk

It is common sense that overpopulation will eventually become a problem since the Earth is round and hence there is only so much space… The biblical command to multiply and spread and take over the Earth needs to be rejected from the human mind as it goes against nature. The Mayans had a different take on technology that has nothing to do with good and evil. They believed that the ideas for technological inventions come into the human mind as gifts from spirits, and the spirits require acknowldgment and thanks in the form of rituals and offerings. If these were not done, the spirits can turn nasty and exact payment from humans for the technology. The Mayans did not omit the invention of the wheel and advanced weapons because they were stupid, but because they were wise. The cost is too high. This is probably why they abandoned their cities… Read more »

Gonzogone
Gonzogone
May 29, 2023 10:16 PM
Reply to  Gonzogone

Technology advances and weapons tend to go together. A rifle or a pistol are made to kill- there is no other application for them. Firearms are more advanced than swords and also make it much easier to kill, and from a distance; which makes it easy for a even a child to kill another human being. Imagine the psychological consequences of that on the child. So, as you can see some tech is instrinsically more “evil” than other. The internet began as a military project and is actually being used for mass brain washing- much more so than TV. It can be argued that the basic intent behind the creation of the internet (control) is malevolent even if the people developing it were not conscious of being evil. See Google’s early motto “Don’t be evil” – no longer in use of course as they are completely up Satan’s rectum and… Read more »

Howard
Howard
May 29, 2023 1:10 PM

Genocide made easy: blame the victim. Like the husband beating his wife then accusing her with a heartfelt “Why did you make me do this?”

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 29, 2023 7:52 PM
Reply to  Howard

This wife one is a bit tricky.

Actually women exists who want to be beaten, as they say, a woman need to feel a mans strength, that a strong man protect them, that a man care about them. Attention.
You also have really nasty women who made something that deserved some slaps, to get the message.

The other side is men with low self value who react in jealousy, drunk, or sociopaths.

The psychopath’s “blame the victim” made by Western deep states is one of their most ugly and disgusting sides. Allen Dulles/CIA per info made the “torture without borders”.

Jerry Alatalo
Jerry Alatalo
May 29, 2023 12:18 PM

Pfizer and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration [FDA] joined in trying to keep secret/out of public awareness (for 75 years) the gruesome fact: 1,223 people were killed by mRNA injections in the first 90 days after the widespread mRNA injection rollout.

It took a lawsuit to uncover the gruesome truth.

This glaring fact can only become properly recognized and/or understood as undeniable proof of premeditated mass murder…

eman
eman
May 29, 2023 1:33 PM
Reply to  Jerry Alatalo

Have not you yet learned that premeditated mass murder is ok, even legal ,if the perpetrator is a private for profit corporation? People get up set when corporation appointed leaders of governments commit murder because governments are suppose to protect the people from the corporations they charter, but every knows governments protect and empower the oligarchs and it is the oligarchs that own the corporations, and that governments privatize their monopoly powers and give the privatized powers to oligarch owned global corporations. Monopoly power is suppose to be an exclusive characteristic of government. Governments are suppose to protect the people from private use of monopoly power. You want to solve the anti-humanity problems of the world eliminate private ownership or use of patent and copyright monopoly power. Until you do, nothing will ever change: the oligarch will use his or her corporation to own the people that governments pay from… Read more »

Hannah
Hannah
May 29, 2023 12:13 PM

As a Jew living in New York, I know some awake friends who still would recoil from comparing the scamdemic with the Holocaust, but I’m not one.

Comparison is not equation. And I think we have all now had firsthand experience of how societies like Nazi Germany contrive to divide their people against themselves and turn a majority into the persecutors of a minority.

We’ve all now witnessed how quickly and seamlessly our medical institutions can be retooled into places of death and incarceration. Only a minority of physicians or nurses expressing any reservations.

And yes, few of our citizens did much to try to prevent it. Though a lot of readers here, and OffG itself, are heroic exceptions who did put themselves on the line to tell the truth

Simon
Simon
May 29, 2023 11:35 AM

Watch yourself – comparing genocide with genocide landed Bahkdi in court

Sofia
Sofia
May 29, 2023 9:17 AM

I must admit that I too have become obsessed with the holocaust since the start of the covid scam. I was firmly in the cock up theory camp until December 2020 and then one long night it suddenly struck me, this was no accident or cock up or sunk cost fallacy. This was in fact, cold, calculated conspiracy. At that point I became obsessed and watched endless holocaust footage on youtube, I read countless accounts of what had happened. How?? Barbarism beyond belief but why didn’t anyone stop it, why??? why didn’t the jews themselves fight back on the platforms or when they were being murdered in their 1000s in eastern europe, gathered in large groups, men, women and children, shot in the head at point blank range, often by a relatively small group of men, what did they have to lose, at least they could just make it a… Read more »

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
May 29, 2023 11:24 AM
Reply to  Sofia

To follow the crowd is a default setting in a lot of animals including man.

It actually makes a lot of sense to group together as a form of defense.

The problem is that this trait has been used as a weapon against us.

wardropper
wardropper
May 29, 2023 1:53 PM

And there we have it in a nutshell.
Humans are NOT animals, despite sharing numerous hereditary characteristics with them.

It makes sense for animals to ‘follow the crowd’, because it increases the likelihood of them not being eaten by more dangerous animals.

But humans, as they are today, follow the crowd for other reasons:
Mostly laziness – to avoid having to think for themselves, and yet thinking for yourself is exactly the thing that makes you human.

We have that choice.
Animals don’t.

Choices aren’t in the animal “Essentials For Survival” kit, even if many animals can claim more than adequate compensation in the fact that they have sense organs which are far more developed than ours.

Howard
Howard
May 29, 2023 4:21 PM
Reply to  wardropper

I think the biggest reason humans follow the crowd is simply because “there’s safety in numbers.”

I don’t think humans in general have completely shed their animal roots. The “more dangerous animals” which might eat them have morphed into “The Other,” which might rob and kill them.

Gonzogone
Gonzogone
May 29, 2023 9:27 PM
Reply to  Sofia

Watch “One Third of the Holocaust” documentary and prepare to think.

Placental_Mammal
Placental_Mammal
May 31, 2023 1:49 PM
Reply to  Sofia

I think you are defending the very propaganda system that ran convid by believing everything they say about WW2.