172

Mr Blue & the CIA

Edward Curtin

“This is slavery, not to speak one’s thoughts.”
Euripides, The Phoenician Women

Some time ago on a Sunday evening when my wife and I had just sat down to dinner, our phone rang.  Since I didn’t recognize the phone number and it was dinnertime, I hesitated to answer it, but for some chance reason I did.  The voice on the other end was agitated, intense, and asked for me.

Could he visit immediately because he had urgent news for me? he asked.  He told me his name, one I was not familiar with, and said he was a big fan of my book, Seeking Truth in A Country of Lies—that he had read it numerous times.  He wondered how I knew so much about the workings of what we might call the deep state, the power elite, the intelligence/moneyed class connections, the assassinations of JFK, RFK, et al.  He had also read a newspaper Op Ed I had written about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and wished to talk to me about that as well.  He said he had a very important story to tell me.

The urgency in his voice was palpable.

Naturally I was wary, so I put him off for a few days. But New England is a relatively small area, the home to so many of the country’s ultra-wealthy families and the traditional Blue Blood ruling power structure, and the little bit he had told me about himself intrigued me.  So a few days later I travelled to meet him where he lived, not wanting to open myself to an unknown visitor to my home.

On the way I realized that his last name did ring a bell and it was one connected to important U.S. history of the 1960s.  For reasons of privacy, I will not disclose his name.

Call him Mr. Blue.

This is out of the blue,
In the wink of an eye.
No conspiracy that I know of,
Though something on that order
Is not impossible. Between me
And you I would say it flows.
No sense in telling them
What we are up to, or why.
We don’t know ourselves, do we?
Who cares, the knowing is overrated.
What is this, school we are still in,
0r haven’t we graduated to the world
Of living? Out of the blue,
In the wink of an eye,
Long before we know it,
But not after, never after.

We arranged to meet in a café, but when we did, he asked to converse away from the cafe on a bench in the open air instead. The first thing he said to me was that he was not CIA.  I took that in two ways: he was and he wasn’t.  But I said little and listened to his story, even while questioning myself for agreeing to meet a stranger after such a bizarre phone call.  I was glad not to be sitting over cups of coffee.

He began by telling me about his Blue Blood family heritage, how his family was connected to all the prominent wealthy families whose names are very familiar to many people: the Forbes, Morgans, Choates, Rockefellers, et.al., an index of The Social Register of old money and high society well-connected to all the levers of political and economic power.  Primarily based in the northeastern United States, their tentacles stretch around the world because of their power and influence.  They attend Yale, Harvard, Princeton and the elite New England prep schools.  They have long held important positions in the media, government, and Wall Street.  In short, his family was part of what C. Wright Mills termed “the power elite,” and as he made clear, he and the children of these families were brought up to assume they were born to make the major decisions for the country.  To rule.

But Mr. Blue said he always felt like an outsider even while being an insider in this family nexus.  He seemed burdened with guilt for something, and as he told a long story I became a bit impatient waiting for the crux of the pressing news he wanted to convey to me.  But I listened silently.

He told me about some of what he has done over the decades, which was good work trying to repair the damage caused by major corporations.  It seemed to me he did this as a way of atoning for his family’s sins.  I would interrupt him from time to time to ask a point of clarification about some connection between the people he mentioned and their links to US government agencies or the well-known media people connected to his family.  He was very forthright in his answers.  I grew to trust him the more he talked.

After about an hour, I asked him to please tell me the urgent news he had phoned about.

It concerned the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy in 1968. He said he told RFK, Jr. decades ago that the CIA killed his father. This, he said, he learned two days after the assassination from a relative who was a CIA officer.  This relative said to him in person, “We knew.”  When I asked him what that meant, he told me it meant that the CIA had killed Senator Kennedy.  Then he traced this relative’s connections through the military-intelligence-industrial-political-wealth complex and how it all wound through his family’s history and the prominent families he was connected to. He named many names, including the CIA relative.

I wasn’t surprised by all the  interconnections, for they confirmed what I already knew about the upper echelons of power and money.  But this was the first time that an insider told me personally, and I kept marveling at their extent and how the names were connected to key events in U.S. history, particularly those involving the intelligence agencies.

We were sitting in a town deeply steeped in the famous names and historic mansions of the old money elites, and as he talked, I kept drawing on my knowledge of these people, which was not just academic but based of personal experience.  We were sitting in the heart of the place where these traditional ruling elites congregated and socialized.

In another similar New England town years before, I had heard endless stories told to me by the famous theologian Reinhold Niebuhr’s widow, Ursula Niebuhr, who was a big name dropper, and liked to point up all the Niebuhrs’ elite connections. (Niebuhr was the most famous U.S. theologian of the 20th century; his photo appeared on the cover of Time magazine; he influenced politicians of many stripes; was quoted approvingly and often by Barack Obama and even John McCain; in short, he was the establishment’s God-man during the Cold War and a theological underpinning for the neoliberal warfare state).  She would regularly note how so-and so, her friend and local resident (usually these people had their massive summer homes in addition to city residences) – e.g. Adolph Berle, an intelligence officer in WWI, a member of FDR’s original Brain Trust, Ambassador, Columbia law professor, power broker involved in above and below board foreign intrigue, Cold Warrior – did this and that, etc.

For some reason she shared with me much of her inside knowledge of her elite “friends” as if I shared her values, which I didn’t.  It must have been my theological background. And I guess playing dumb helped.  But I listened—and learned in doing so—that people will tell you many things you may or may not want to hear if they think you are receptive.  Her stories about some of the most famous people of the 20th century – Einstein, T.S. Eliot, her Princeton associates, et al., always referred to by their first names – told me much about the workings of the power elites.  Sometimes the stories were weirdly funny if not revealing of something else.

At lunch with her son Christopher one day, she told me about her “friend” (all the famous people were “friends”) the famous German-American psychoanalyst Erik Erikson.  She said he encouraged her husband Reinhold to stop smoking cigarettes by turning to Danish cigarillos.  She quoted him as saying: “Remember what Freud said, Reinhold: ‘It’s been a long time since I had something hot and wet between my lips.’”  I was taken aback by this seventy-five year-old woman saying this, knowing as I did that Freud smoked cigars his whole life.

But it was typical of a type of double entendre that she often gave about her elite associates that opened my eyes to the inner workings of a social class I was not familiar with.  I took note of all of it and drew connections between various organizations these elites were involved with, many of which at first blush one would not think were involved in their power operations, such as conservation and nature groups, organizations allegedly formed to fight corporate misdeeds, etc.  For decades after, I have come to see more connections than seemed possible, and many in a small geographic area but all connected to the upper class elites and their control of land, resources, and media outlets.

Mr. Blue confirmed all this and more.  He told me about the Cold War bomb shelters under the mansions of his and other wealthy families, the connections between the CIA and corporations, how those seen as the “good guys” were really working for the bad guys, that CIA and Mossad operatives would contact him under the assumption he was on their side, the seamless socializing between all the elite families with so many names and places connected to operations of “deep state” operators – the stuff I have been researching for years and the subject of much of my recent book.  Mr. Blue corroborated  for me the essence of what I had discovered through my own work.   And as I told him, I did it by studying, researching, and listening, something anyone could do if so inclined.

Weeks after our first meeting, Mr. Blue agreed to meet again, this time together with me and a documentary filmmaker.  He told all the same stories, elaborating on many of them and adding others.  He was loose and easy and we talked for nearly five hours.  At one point, when I asked him to repeat what he had told me weeks before about his CIA relative and what that relative meant by the phrase “We knew” about the RFK assassination, and Mr. Blue had then told me that he meant that the CIA had killed Kennedy, he jumped to say, “I never said that.”

This denial startled me.  But he had said it.  After our initial conversation, I had written his exact words in my notes on my drive home.  And he had also said that he told RFK Jr. that the CIA killed his father. This was the only time during our long conversation that he grew very agitated.

This was obviously the one revelation that scared him among all the other stories he shared.  I understand his fear.  But time is relentless; we run out of it.  There comes that day when it is too late to find your public tongue.  It is why he remains Mr. Blue, an anonymous good man caught in a family history for which he has tried to atone.  An outsider on the inside still, calling to be heard by another person, in the wink of an eye, out of the blue.

Perhaps someday he will tell the world.

Edward Curtin is an independent writer whose work has appeared widely over many years. His website is edwardcurtin.com and his new book is Seeking Truth in a Country of Lies.

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John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 26, 2023 5:51 AM

Chappaquiddick sabotage. Covert op + psyops. You notice how media never mentions, no how, no way, Ted Kennedy’s near fatal small plane crash, killing pilot, & an aide, Birch Bayh had to pull Teddy from the wreckage, consigning him to a lifetime of back pain woes, like his slain President/brother. Only 6 months after that brother was shot in Dallas? There has been a total silence about it in the press for 60 years! Things like that in Media are de facto proof of covert ops, by the very omission of them from our history. Near blackouts. Sometimes almost total. To discuss it at all would be to shine a light on Chappaquiddick, as well as the June ’64 plane crash itself, by suspicion: as covert ops and assassination attempts, such as they applied later to two senators. (Minnesota and Missouri 20+ years ago, Wellstone & Carnahan ). As far… Read more »

Placental_Mammal
Placental_Mammal
Aug 26, 2023 3:17 AM

Banksters

The North Eastern elites and the like are merely bankster puppets. Likewise the CIA and the M agency. The Kennedy family curse has it’s origin in the opposition of it’s patriarch Joe sr to the bankster’s WW2.JFK ‘s opposition to the Israeli nuclear weapons project did not help. This curse has consumed four Kennedy’s to date. It also drove the Chappaquiddick psyop that terminated Ted Kennedy’s presidential prospects.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 26, 2023 5:43 AM

Chappaquiddick sabotage. Covert op + psyops. You notice how media never mentions, no how, no way, Ted Kennedy’s near fatal small plane crash, killing pilot, Birch Bath had to pull Teddy from the wreckage, consigning him to a lifetime of back pain woe. Only 6 months after his brother was shot in Dallas. There been a total silence about it in the press for 60 years. Things like that in Media are de facto proof of covert ops, by the very omission of them from our history. Near blackouts. Sometimes almost total. To discuss it at all would be to shine a light on Chappaquiddick as well as the June ’64 plane crash: as covert ops and assassination attempts, such as they did later to two senators. (Minnesota and Missouri 20+ years ago) As far as forensic historicity, you can prove so many of these things now by their sheer… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 23, 2023 5:40 PM

This whole essay, despite doubtless the best intentions, comes off at a certain (or Curtin) level as a deeply surreal psyop, origins unclear or unknown perhaps.

But only when merged with the comments below. [Select ones.]

OY

Zane
Zane
Aug 22, 2023 7:08 AM

” The CIA kills people ”

In other news scientists have discovered that the sky is blue and the ocean is wet.

Matt
Matt
Aug 22, 2023 1:01 AM

Why does the CIA contact Mr Blue asuming he shares their values? By the sound of it, it would have bee quite easy to detect that he did not.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 4:39 PM
Reply to  Matt

Insiders

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 21, 2023 7:32 PM

The alphabet agencies must be desperate to keep the fakery going, now that the curtain (excuse the pun) has been pulled back on the news media and political class, to reveal nothing but racketeering, fraud, fakery and hoaxes, repeated ad nauseam. The government, so-called “deep state” and the alphabet agencies are like the Wizard of Oz: Putting on a show for the masses, using elaborate hoaxes to expand their powers and control. Why? Because trauma based mind control works, even using staged assassinations, CGI and prosthetic gore. Staging a pandemic worked with the fraud of COVID. They (governments in collusion with the news media) had nothing except loops of staged scenes and a script… Crisis actors lining up outside a hospital… Empty refrigerator trucks. A fear based campaign using a CGI (in silico) virus. Phrases were repeated until almost everyone was a true believer. Why? Because our subconscious can’t discriminate… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 2:32 AM
Reply to  Researcher

“Behind the Curtin” is the name of Mr. Curtin’s website. Are you getting cheeky?

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 22, 2023 5:02 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

No. I was unaware. But if the Masonic shoe fits…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:53 AM
Reply to  Researcher

OWsome, ouch, & over & owt

Admin Support
Admin Support
Aug 22, 2023 6:08 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Grear to read your thoughts, you frame it all soo well. In agreement with everything you’ve written.Fairplay to you.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 11:52 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Does it come in size 33 ?

They all swear only 3.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 23, 2023 6:05 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Big shoes to fill.

By acclamation, only!

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 23, 2023 2:42 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Exactly. Whenever I read these articles or stories and they contain so many Masonic references I have to laugh. If one didn’t know, one would assume everything in the world is for real, instead of symbolic. Watch Kronkite announce the alleged death of Kennedy. He makes three references to three numbers, two of them time, When added together equal 3, and the other number references 36, which when added is 9, or 3 x 3 / 33. He also uses three Masonic gestures in the “announcement”. Twice he puts his hands up to his glasses using the 666 = 18 = 9 = 3 x 3 / 33. And once he looks up to the sky, tilting his head. If I hadn’t studied the gestures, hand signals and Gematria I’d have no idea he’s reading a carefully worded script and LYING. Also, the fake cry is too much. Bad acting.… Read more »

StStephen
StStephen
Aug 23, 2023 8:47 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Christ!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 24, 2023 2:25 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Nicely made arguments, I see your points, I hadn’t studied all the Cronkite material but perhaps I shall now. It seems too punctilious at first glance but you learn a lot from these things and there are scholars and mavens at YouTube videos who will walk you through a lot of this. A fave of mine I saw 10 or more years ago with a guy and gal and their refreshing hipster voice over of some of the black and white footage such as DOD homicide chief Captain Will John Fritz backing in the Dallas PD getaway vehicle from the jail and when Ruby lunges out to shoot he doesn’t even turn to look at him for quite a while if you’re measuring it in adrenaline. Then more bad acting with his really self-conscious gesture as he turns. I don’t know but if somebody’s shooting a gun next to me… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 24, 2023 3:39 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Fritz wàs DPD surely, not DOD. (It is cumbersome in “pending” when it has no “edit” function.)

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 24, 2023 4:46 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Wow. Those numbers are certainly full of 3s. And the 9 at the beginning. No wonder he was excited. The number 8 is an infinity symbol. And contains two threes, if split in half. Your former classmate was reading your comments here… The Red Cross of course, is a faux charity Org, part of the Knights of Malta and Templar’s. Of which, Mandela and many others etc., belong. There’s a documentary I watched recently called Cult of the Medics. It misdirects often and purposefully, but reveals enough background info to be somewhat worthwhile. You know who else calls the firm, “the firm”? The royal family. If you read this link you’ll see why. You’ll see the connections. Of course there’s multiple secret societies and religions all working towards the same aims, for the same cabal. Not just Freemasonry. But they’re all centrally controlled. In Greek orgs, in colleges across the… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 24, 2023 1:12 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Oops, “Behind the CurtAin” but it’s still cute, either way.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 22, 2023 9:14 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Why are you still insist on inferening the American Webster Alphabet when We know our own Histories.. and the US is its Picture Identification County State Federation Reserve?

covidiot
covidiot
Aug 23, 2023 9:13 AM
Reply to  Clive Williams

these CIA disinfo bots are really not worth the money that’s been spent on them.

StStephen
StStephen
Aug 23, 2023 8:37 PM
Reply to  Researcher

I don’t like what you write Mr. Researcher. Not any of it. Not at all. And not just what you’ve written here, but elsewhere on OffG that I’ve seen your comments. There’s a certain uncompromising nihilism that I suppose those whose “unconscious can’t discriminate between real and fake” find seductive. A sort of maximalist ambiguity that tinges your outrageously false and offensive statements. You open with the sneering suggestion that this article “must” be a “desperate attempt” at a CIA/NSA et al psyop, perpetrated on poor Mr. Curtin, who is clearly a far less experienced and worldly “researcher” than yourself, and encouraging the hopefuls with a hint that their billion-dollar nemesis might also be desperate. Tell us: just how were the assassinations of the Kennedys “faked”? Because it’s clear you’re not talking about only the killers being fake but the assassinations themselves! Well, are they dead or are they not?… Read more »

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 23, 2023 9:09 PM
Reply to  StStephen

Ms. Researcher.

I don’t take cues, Mr. MASON and I don’t write lies like most of the authors on alt (and ms) media; leading the masses down the garden path of dead ends, into endless debate about FAKED events, FAKE countries, FAKE political systems, FAKE leaders, FAKE laws in FAKE courts, for legal FICTIONS.

The outright fraud of these faked assassinations and nuclear weapons is obvious to any halfwit and has been exposed for years. Not by me, but by plenty of others. I’ve done my own research and I concur (in general) with the links I leave.

If you’re too intellectually lazy or too obtuse to research for yourself, don’t expect me to debate you. The absolute truth is out there for anyone to find.

Truth *is* beauty, and I deal only in truth. Two things you know nothing about.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 24, 2023 2:59 AM
Reply to  Researcher

What is your take on Slaughterhouse-Five/Schlacthof Funf? Vonnegut was pretty convincing that he saw an incinerated Dresden after resurfacing from the cooler below.

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 24, 2023 3:54 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

13 / 02 / ‘45 ….!

Was Vonnegut there? Highly doubtful. The alien abduction shtick is straight out of a CIA script. The book banning fracas around Slaughterhouse 5 was PR.

Parts of Dresden “appear” to have been firebombed. *If* it actually happened, authorities would have evacuated the area well beforehand. Mathis exposes some inconsistencies in this essay.

Howard
Howard
Aug 24, 2023 5:07 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Your referencing of certain happenings as “psyops” is as fraudulent as it is truthful. Everything can be reduced to being a psyop, not just formal happenings instigated by official agencies and reported by organs of propaganda.

The term is not limited by its proximity to certain events nor by certain numerical formulations.. These assassinations, these nuclear weapons you reference could very well be real and still on some level be psyops.

Your comment is a kind of psyop, as is my reply. Were they not concocted to persuade the public toward a particular view?

Another thing I accept as truthful is your assertion that “any halfwit” would accept as obvious the fraudulent nature of assassinations and nuclear weapons.

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 24, 2023 5:16 PM
Reply to  Howard

The assassinations are HOAXES. As are the nuclear weapons.

You definitely are a halfwit as well as a liar and fraud.

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 24, 2023 7:59 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Resources for those who wish to explore the HOAX assassination.

Piece of Mindful: JFK TV.
10 part series.

Miles Mathis. *Caveat (I don’t agree with any reasons given or JFK ruling from the shadows, only that the assassination never happened)

Unexpected Cosmology

CIA leaker on JFK says “IT’S ALL FAKE”

and one more resource that’s been removed and only exists on the wayback archive.

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Aug 24, 2023 8:34 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Coming from someone who just told a perfect stranger that he is “definitely a halfwit as well as a liar and fraud” in reply to an astute, though respectful comment? No, thanks.

Howard
Howard
Aug 25, 2023 4:04 PM

Thank you. For some reason, Researcher decided at some point that I was a CIA operative. I’m not sure why; she didn’t make it clear.

The reference to Miles Mathis is a bit puzzling. He doesn’t seem to be a particularly credible source.

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Aug 25, 2023 7:36 PM
Reply to  Howard

I don’t think there was any valid reason to decide that. For instance, the above commenter ‘StStephen’ was taunted with ‘the odious charge of being a Mason’ just because he expressed his dislike with Researcher’s views. I haven’t read much of Mathis’ views, but if *these* are the fruits of those readings, I’ll gladly pass. However, I’m broadly acquainted with the mindset: A group of people is controlling human life since centuries and millennia, and everything of importance happening is deliberately planned on the sleeping masses who live in a fake world, with fake institutions in fake nations, with fake political divisions, and fake religions, fake revolutions, etc. A make-believe that works for the benefit of a few and the enslaving of the many, and out of which there doesn’t seem to be a way. “Uncompromising nihilism” and “Maximalism” do describe this mindset. Indeed, while there is certainly truth in… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 24, 2023 3:21 AM
Reply to  StStephen

I was deeply intrigued by an interview with Polanski (n my hyper-extended study of RP this past year) an interview from decades ago, that he said after his wife’s savage murder and seeing the way media treated all of it, he lost all respect for all of them. He didn’t even mention government, he said that the media ran the courts.

The movie he made 3 years ago “An Officer and a Spy (“J’Accuse”)” sure has ruffled all kinds of feathers all over”NATO” (aka NAZO) in that it’s impossible to see with subtitles or in theaters or just about any which way, not on our DVD players etc etc and so forth.
Hmmmm

About “L’Affaire Dreyfus” in 1895 Paris and still a very live Intelligence issue 130 years later?

Still wondering what’s up with that quite amazing situation.

Have a hunch it reflects on everything.

Placental_Mammal
Placental_Mammal
Aug 26, 2023 3:00 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Polanski’s wife was murdered by profesionals that acted on his behalf. There is plenty of evidence of this .

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 6, 2023 3:56 PM

Crazed acid-tripping “hippies” are professionals? The same ones who killed two strangers the next night?

Serious.

Have you even read a few sentences, about the most notorious murders of that era? Facts available for 54 years?

You’re not embarrassed? Enough to post a “my bad”?

Good to learn that about you. Red flags galore.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 6, 2023 6:47 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Now Polanski’s latest effort, a dark comedy called “The Palace” just pre-premiered, and, get a load of this: Rotten Tomatoes gave it a rating of 0% (fresh). Heeheeheehee, I thought I’d seen it all when NYT and WaPo (et al. etc) were panning Stone’s “JFK” months before it was released! Negative reviews before the premiere. Unprecedented. But now this. His 2019 film “J’Accuse” has essentially been made impossible to view, for many reasons, yet it got a high ranking at Tomatoes, 80 or 90% whatever, fresh. So I guess that looked a little odd & incongruous, winning awards but banning it throughout NAZO countries, so they turned up the heat and got a contingent of hacks to give it redundant numbers of thumbs down. Amazing. Or, rather silly. But very very intriguing? What’s it all about? I’m surprised they didn’t give it a negative percentile, the way they’ve been handling… Read more »

Jonathan K X
Jonathan K X
Aug 21, 2023 4:54 PM

Perhaps in the future “Mr. Blue” might also dare to reveal that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny aren’t real.

underground poet
underground poet
Aug 21, 2023 6:34 PM
Reply to  Jonathan K X

No they proved they were not real, but the tooth fairy, that was real.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Aug 21, 2023 4:17 PM

There are always consequences to speaking out, Mr Curtin. I don’t know if you’ve ever sacrificed a career for speaking out, but it’s not an easy decision to take. You wouldn’t have embarked on such a career if you weren’t prepared to make many sacrifices to progress. So to just give it all up over a profound sense of injustice takes courage, it also takes financial flexibility and there may be implications for spouse and children too. Being blackballed isn’t something which is ever rescinded. The golden rule of all ‘career avenues’ is ‘don’t bite the hand that feeds’ . The difficulty of course is that you never know the true nature of the hand that feeds until you have been fed for a while. When I hear the absolute lies being told to young people trying to make rational career decisions I am angry, I am frustrated and I… Read more »

Johnny
Johnny
Aug 22, 2023 12:48 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Once the clarity of Truth is perceived, there’s no going back.
Peace be with you Rhys.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 22, 2023 9:33 AM
Reply to  Johnny

Boys Cry Girls Weep, if unaware of simple truths you haven’t travelled far in life at all, that’s his fault who are you? Rhys is more of a Man than you’ll ever be….

covidiot
covidiot
Aug 23, 2023 9:17 AM
Reply to  Clive Williams

you’ll never be a man, you’re just a CIA disinfo bot.

P Munk
P Munk
Aug 22, 2023 2:40 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Hello Mr. Jagger, while i found your comment interesting, thoughtful and, well-written, I do taken exception to your closing remark.
The value of courage is not measured in terms of opportunity cost, but in the virtue of sacrifice when confronting one’s fears.
This may resonate as a petty equivocation however, the sacrifice of a poor man is no less meaningful than that of a wealthy man.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:09 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

They will be quick to remind you not to bite the hand that feeds,and how. What too many of them truly don’t understand is that they bite the hand, and that real hand of record, that feeds all, only uses them as proxy.

As stewards, middle managers, but they don’t have vision that sees that far. Only too often the human hubris, that doesn’t.

mgeo
mgeo
Aug 22, 2023 6:13 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

The spiel is likely to be more subtle: Think of the institution, its reputation, those who depend on it.. Reconsider the relevance of your personal upsets.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 8:17 AM
Reply to  mgeo

I missed that point of yours.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 22, 2023 9:23 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That’s not why you do it. Car-eering isnt monetary.

covidiot
covidiot
Aug 23, 2023 9:18 AM
Reply to  Clive Williams

why do you do it, CIA disinfo bot?

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Aug 24, 2023 10:28 AM
Reply to  covidiot

Ever heard of aphasia?

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
Aug 22, 2023 9:50 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Wise words Rhys. It’s very difficult to be a rebel when your mortgage and family depend on you not being a rebel. Looking around at all the madness I imagine a world 20 or 30 years on when most of the people on here (Certainly me) will be gone. The “old guard” politicians are dying off, woke is replacing common sense, people are accepting ridiculous burdens on their private travel and freedoms and manufactured inflation is cowing people into maintaining their dwindling income at all costs. People still believe in the illusion of election choice. It’s easier to believe you can vote your way out of a problem than realise the system is a scam. The moulding of the new order has been going on for a long, long time. We really are in a transition period. Don’t worry about the next generation. They’ve been programmed for living under the… Read more »

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Aug 22, 2023 12:17 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

There is to whistleblowing another aspect which very much mitigates the concerns and seriousness one attributes to it. That it is not any longer as effective as it was a few decades ago. Then, you had a few sources of information either official or opposition and any political scandal revealed by a whistleblower of the opposition had enormous consequences and had to be taken seriously. Then, whistleblowing could mean one’s livelihood and even life.   By contrast, in today’s age of information, daily bombarded as we are with millions of data from a muti-coloured, diversified and sometimes contradicting sources, each of which reclaiming our attention, words have come to signify very little in terms of political engagement, and our consciousness has become so divided between so many sources of information and whistleblowers that instead of prompting action our knowledge of nefarious actions by TPTB, considered from so many angles, prompts… Read more »

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 21, 2023 3:43 PM

Private researchers have documented many of the details of the JFK and RFK hits. Anyone who cares at all about the truth of these murders can learn the basics with a minimum of research. RFK’s landslide win in the Democrat CA primary hours before his murder was his death sentence as there was no way the deep state could stop him from the oval office other than killing him. I recall the following from my research years ago. Do your own.  Sirhan was totally mind controlled. He had total amnesia regarding the shooting. The defense pulled in a top hypnotist trying to break it and he couldn’t, commenting that it was “constructed” by top experts. He had an 8 shot .22 revolver, which he emptied from in front of Kennedy with eyes closed, but at least 10 shots were fired. None of his shots hit Kennedy. RFK was shot from behind at very close range leaving powder burns. The killer… Read more »

Ort
Ort
Aug 21, 2023 7:51 PM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

Off the top of my head, without rechecking references and sources: For me, one of the most astonishing aspects of RFK’s assassination was that it seems as if, in stark contrast to JFK, RFK’s autopsy was not hijacked, falsified, or suppressed. JFK’s body was illegally confiscated and forcefully removed from Dallas by federal “law enforcement” agents over the vehement and appropriate protests of Texas authorities, in blatant violation of established laws mandating that the autopsy be conducted in the venue where the homicide occurred. Thus, as you point out, LA Coroner Thomas Noguchi conducted a routine autopsy, and unequivocally concluded that the fatal wounds could not have come from Sirhan’s gun. Despite the chaos and confusion at the murder scene, multiple credible eyewitnesses agreed on the physical positions or locations of RFK and Sirhan when numerous shots rang out. Again, as you note, the wounds indicated that RFK was fatally shot from… Read more »

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 21, 2023 7:55 PM
Reply to  Ort

Yes, it reminds me of Building 7 collapsing in its own footprint in sympathy for its already fallen big brothers. Makes sense to me.

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 21, 2023 8:38 PM
Reply to  Ort

The Joint Chief’s wanted JFK dead as much as the CIA. So a plan was hatched before the hit between LBJ, the CIA, and the Joint Chief’s to get his body under the custody of the military ASAP, as a five year old could deduce that his head wound was from a shot from his front. This would have ended the lone gunman myth and the case would then have to become a conspiracy. With Oswald dead, there was no need for a trial, but if there were conspirators on the loose, that would have opened up a huge can of worms for our deep state perps. The story of Lee Harvey Oswald is fascinating and quite complex. He certainly had connections with the mob, far right intelligence, and the military as an ex-marine who debriefed U-2 pilots in Japan after their run over the USSR. However he had no… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 9:30 PM
Reply to  Ort

For me, one of the most astonishing aspects of RFK’s assassination was that it seems as if, in stark contrast to JFK, RFK’s autopsy was not hijacked, falsified, or suppressed. Be astonished no more, or at least not by that, but maybe by this: Noguchi’s book “Coroner” gives details that RFK’s corpse was hijacked from Noguchii by the same feds as heisted JFK, or I also heard it on Dave Emory show Radio free America in ’87 ~ same broadcast (where I first heard that my father’s client 33° MPH, master hypnotist, was ghost hosting Sirhan at his PRS esoteric reading library in late ’67. One night wee hours in October of 1987 I heard Emory detail how Noguchi told his nurse assistant to go to the operating Bay and collect any physical evidence that she could find, while he was contending tenaciously with the aforesaid Feds, but couldn’t stop… Read more »

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 12:54 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

John, if the bullets in Sirhan’s gun were blanks, who shot Paul Shrade, the union activist in the kitchen that night? Paul has always said that he does not believe Sirhan was the killer of Kennedy. But I believe he thought Sirhan shot him (Paul).

Victor G.
Victor G.
Aug 27, 2023 1:53 PM
Reply to  judith

“Heard” 13 shots? What is that suppose to mean? Maybe what you
/she wants to say is “counted” 13 shots? Counting 13 shots in such circumstances … wow.
I heard the nearby church bell ringing everyday but once I get past counting 8-9, I usually give up counting (OK could be ’cause I know they’ll never go past 12 and I don’t give a f*** anyway)
Imagine the nerves of steel one needs to begin counting as the shots ring out and to continue until they cease.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 6, 2023 3:43 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

That overlooks what Nina Rhodes-Hughes said in her deposition to FBI at her home, that the shock was so great the tally of 13 was branded on her memory. She explained that to them, but was never called to trial.

Your point seems very reasonable, but nobody ever asks the simplest of questions, “Could there have been one or more weapons fitted with silencers?” No trace of a sound in all that hubbub.

A few years after the trial the case was reopened and it turns out that LAPD could only produce half of the 4,000 photos of the crime scene.

They lost 2,000?!

Patrick Nolan covers all the forensics in one chapter of his “CIA Rogues” of 2013.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 6, 2023 3:33 PM
Reply to  judith

Paul Schrade (RIP) knew that Sirhan shot “at” Bobby, and for decades thought he was the killer, but in his last ten years, including Sirhan’s most recent parole hearings, he stood by Sirhan in support, publicly stating that he didn’t believe Sirhan was the killer. He also apologized for not saying it sooner. The way I have heard some explanations of the ballistics, there were three guns being fired. I think it was on Emory’s show, or maybe Nolan’s book, I heard an account that one gun was being discharged upward (it was found out after the trial that LAPD had lost half of the 4,000 photos of the crime scene, then years later the whole Hotel was razed!?) Also, the acoustics to me seem not very relevant, as why couldn’t one of the guns have been fitted with a silencer? Same with Dallas. I never hear that possibility much… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 5, 2023 11:54 PM
Reply to  Ort

I have brought up some of the forensics with black Americans in Southern California not far from the murder side and it is a very very hard sell indeed to convince them they have been fooled as solidly as they were behind RFK and is enraged by Sirhan. But to date the propaganda exonerating anyone but Sirhan has been so successful that even Bobby’s widow Ethel now in her mid-90s doesn’t seem to have an inkling that Sirhan is innocent. One of the last immediate victims, Paul Schrade, who passed away recently (RIP), was unclear about it for many years, and yet since 2000 he had understood for some time now that Sirhan was not really the assassin, only a “random” shooter as decoy and diversion, and had come for some years to support Sirhan at his parole hearings and apologized for not coming sooner. There have been so many… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 2:49 AM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

It’s noteworthy that RFK’s win was postponed till midnight by L.A. Mayor Sam Yorty. I started digging into Yorty’s basic facts, and beyond about five or ten years ago, and I didn’t have to dig long: I input my father’s name, MPH founder of Philosophical Research Society (the West Coast heir apparent of “Society for Psychical Research” in 1880s London, of which Sir Arther Conan Doyel and Mark Twain were both members, having been much stricken by losing a family member and looking for circuitous ways to contact them (I guess they lost patience with a faith in reconnecting in more orthodox fashion, or maybe there were other reasons) and I think both left after irreconcilable psychic differences, or whatever. But I noticed that both groups had the same call letters for their alphabet short form, just as an anagram, and the full names are real close. My theory was… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 2:59 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Pardon my typos, was in a rush, pretend the bot can spell as well as me, the algo-knucklehead.

Clear enough to get, tho.

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 12:40 PM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

Thane Eugene Cesar was the alleged assassin of RFK. He was acting as a body guard that night and was right behind Kennedy, and actually up against him when the shooting started.
He had a top security clearance at one of the military plants – not Boeing, can’t remember right now in California.
He lived in California for years after the assasination and then, I believe, when health began to fail, moved back to Philipines.
Lots of info with the details on this around the web and in books.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 23, 2023 3:41 PM
Reply to  judith

As far as I heard it, I can’t track it all at the moment,but I remember the basics clearly, Thane Cesar was a guard at the U2 facility in Burbank, which I recall as being Lockheed, not Boeing. We lived in Sherman Oaks, and I was at at Harvard School in NoHo, so Burbank is in “the backyard,” quite close. In the famous black and white photo by Boris Yaro, there after work at LAT as a supporter of RFK with his own camera, he snapped a photo of Bobby sprawled on the floor, and you can see a clip-on tie lying on the floor. Those are the kinds often worn by security guards or rent-a-cops. Cesar was there moonlighting in that capacity only. I haven’t been able to look at confirming reportage or other discussion of that tie evidence since I heard it on Dave Emory’s broadcast in ’87… Read more »

judith
judith
Aug 23, 2023 6:57 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Yes, Thane worked at Lockheed. I knew it was one of those corporations And, crazy,that he was moonlighting as “security”. I’d heard about the tie many times from different sources. Mostly I think on the JFK Assassination Educational Forum. Coincidentally, I just this week watched a discussion about Curtis Lemay on America’s Untold Stories with Eric Hunley and Mark Groubert. (You might know of Groubert? Screenwriter? Lives in LA) I knew of LeMay, and stories about him being present at JFK’s autopsy in DC and so forth, but this 2 part discussion was very interesting. It gave the every day ‘human’ side to LeMay. I think it is worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?=2kbe9X5Bg4w&t=6506shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K-VHqH-p-0&t=4843s If the link does not work just search ” America’s Untold Stories” on youtube. I take it all with a grain of salt, but the factual history is interesting. LeMay was George Wallace’s running mate. Then I watched… Read more »

Anonymous coward
Anonymous coward
Aug 23, 2023 3:58 PM
Reply to  judith
Placental_Mammal
Placental_Mammal
Aug 26, 2023 3:03 AM
Reply to  judith

Lockheed, I think.

judith
judith
Aug 26, 2023 3:28 AM

Yes, thanks.

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 12:44 PM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

It’s interesting, el Gallinazo, that I have always thought that it was the landslide that was the death sentence, but actually, the assassination had to have been planned out much before the California primary. So the landslide did not really make any difference, did it? He’d have been killed even if he lost that primary. ?

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 22, 2023 1:20 PM
Reply to  judith

Yes, that has occurred to me as well. But there is a possibility that they could have put it in place and notified Cesar to abort it if RFK had an abysmal showing in the primary.

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 1:25 PM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

I thought that, also. But a lot of planning and work to then cancel.
And what if he did well in succeeding primaries? I guess they’d have had to mount the assassination somewhere else?
It would seem to me that they were just going to take him out no matter what.
High octance speculation as Dr.Joseph Farrell would say.

Matt Black
Matt Black
Aug 21, 2023 3:33 PM

Every US president, every single member of the Warren Commission & Zapruder were all team-33 if you havn’t worked out we are living in a neo-platonic-cave cum messianic/masonic fiefdom yet god help you.

Howard
Howard
Aug 21, 2023 1:22 PM

Forgive the skepticism, but I can’t come up with any scenario in which this Mr. Blue’s out of the blue urgent need to reveal the wherewithal of the “ruling elites” to someone whose very profession implies he already pretty much knows it makes any sense.

The closest thing to something even remotely sensible is that Mr. Blue was on a lark, having a little joke at Mr. Curtin’s expense.

wardropper
wardropper
Aug 21, 2023 1:51 PM
Reply to  Howard

It’s the sort of thing that makes the Casey-style CIA happy – nobody knows what is up or down, or what to believe. It might as well be a movie script, and the only thing you can say about it is that we should take the story merely on trust.

But trust doesn’t work any more.
Only verifiable information and clear-sightedness do.
Trust has to be earned, and people can no longer be bothered to earn things, so they’ve taken to demanding them.

Tom Larsen
Tom Larsen
Aug 21, 2023 2:26 PM
Reply to  wardropper

I agree. This is why I think Curtin’s peice is a non-story.

lynch
lynch
Aug 21, 2023 2:54 PM
Reply to  Tom Larsen

It is an infomercial for RFK jr.
Ed and O.G is fully lock stock, T shirt wearing church going believers that RFK will drain the swamp.  💤 

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 21, 2023 8:15 PM
Reply to  lynch

I am an anarcho-libertarian of the Corbett type, but I would love to see an election between the Donald and RFK Jr., just to see the MSM presstitutes’ heads spin like Linda Blair. As the Gladiator might have asked, would we not be entertained?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:00 PM
Reply to  el Gallinazo

Blatty, who wrote exorcist, and sequels, was a CIA SPOOK, and the movies and his other activities had an agenda. I talked to a guy a few months ago, who lives in Newport on lido, and he says he was familiar with Blatty from Georgetown parties and circles.

Why was I not surprised? It’s just another aspect of MKUltra to control (the hearts and) minds sowing division through fear and “the dark” and all some part or another of all the fell Operation Paperclip “research” that was brought over from the 3rd Reich to Langley.

Variation on a Theme of Jack’s beanstalk big Ogre:

“Fee,Fi, Fo, Fell, I smell the smell of an Intel hell.”

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 3:31 AM
Reply to  Tom Larsen

Maybe it’s just intended mostly as Magical Realism?

el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo
Aug 21, 2023 8:00 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Yes, the difference between the Babylon Bee, fake news you can trust, and MSNBC, fake news you can’t trust.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 3:17 AM
Reply to  Howard

I take all info about these heavily, hotly contested issues, like the near-infinitely challenged assassinations, with a real load of salt, and for their current entertainment value alone. Or almost mostly. Which is to say, with such a slippery surface, as far as yet fixable facts, I get a more reliable map chart merely by pinning them all as flags, red or otherwise. Forensic historicity is something that is rapidly growing as a field, since you almost need fabrications, dreams, mirror reflections, yes canards, or hallucinations, on reports of these subjects as much as what’s available, but what with the faith that the sheer profusion and multitude of red flags will, from a higher point atop the mountain (range) that accrues, or coral-reef fashion, of a preponderance of evidence, it all will lead, ultimately, to the right results. Truths, somewhere over the horizon. (Meanwhile, the interim payoff is that it’s… Read more »

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 12:59 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

I was thinking recently that even with all of the truther movements in all of the areas that affect our lives, and in spite of the enormous amount of good info that has seen the light of day with the advent of the internet, I’ll bet we still don’t know most of what goes on. I think it goes very very deep indeed. Far beyond “limited hangouts” and “controlled opposition”.
Like Ryan Christian from Last American Vagabond suggests, I question everything now. Don’t necessarily come up with answers, but it does broaden the horizon.

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 1:28 PM
Reply to  judith

I’m editing my last sentence “I don’t necessarily come up with answers, but it does broaden the horizon”.

CD3
CD3
Aug 21, 2023 12:05 PM

If It’s possible to ask Mr Blue a question : to what extent do the elites control the social engineering through governments and corporations?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 3:33 AM
Reply to  CD3

Quite a lot, y’know, the more pertinent question is what do we do about it since we have options that they don’t know, apparently. Judging by the evidence.

Our Maker can communicate with his children on infinitely discrete channels.

Straight Talk
Straight Talk
Aug 21, 2023 11:16 AM

The world has so moved on beyond the tired warmonger-candidates up for sale every election season, RFK, Jr. included.

Evil, Scary China Refuses To Passively Let Us Encircle It
“Unconditional support for Israel doesn’t just mean supporting apartheid abuses and frequent bombings of Gaza, it means supporting the regular bombing of Syria, the annexation of the Golan Heights, and Israel’s insane warmongering against Iran. Israel is always in a state of war.

“Unconditional support” for Israel means imperialist foreign policy throughout the middle east. This isn’t just conjecture — we already see it in RFK Jr’s other middle east foreign policy like his staunch opposition to the Iran deal.

It’s a nonsensical, self-contradictory position to claim you want to dismantle the empire out one side of your mouth and pledge “unconditional support” for a nation that’s never not at war out the other. If you’re saying both, there’s one you’re not being truthful about.”

judith
judith
Aug 22, 2023 1:01 PM
Reply to  Straight Talk

Who’s quote was that Straight Talk?

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
Aug 21, 2023 10:02 AM

The drones will go and pay good money to sit in a cinema and watch the most convoluted spy film or thinly disguised intrigue paralleling real events.

Afterwards, they will gush about how realistic the film was and how they were on the edge of their seat
.
You may mention a doubt you have about the verity of a government story.

Then they make that snorting noise and you are a swivel-eyed conspiracy loon.

It’s a funny old world !

Kalvin Stardust
Kalvin Stardust
Aug 21, 2023 7:29 AM

You get the plug in for your book in the second paragraph. That’s funny.

Johnny
Johnny
Aug 21, 2023 8:52 AM

So what.
The Whiteheads do that with every piece.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
Aug 21, 2023 6:21 AM

But none of this information is new so why the urgency? Maybe its a generational thing but I thought that everyone from that era knew that the Kennedy assassinations were a little bit more involved than just lone gunmen having a bad day. The idea of a power elite — a bourgeoisie, as it used to be called — isn’t particularly earth shattering, either. What might be a bit different is that we are living in a time where due to incompetence, greed or just plain hubris the ‘ruling elite’ has let a too large slice of the population fall by the wayside. Insecurity has to be managed to provide the right level of incentivization, that is you can’t have high levels of relative poverty and insecurity, you need just enough to keep people in line but not so much that they start getting agitated and pushing for change. The… Read more »

Rita
Rita
Aug 21, 2023 10:02 AM
Reply to  Martin Usher

I wonder why you’ve been downvoted. Your comment is spot on.
Getting overly greedy has always been the root cause of the downfall of every ruling elite throughout history. Nomadic and tribal systems on the other hand survived ccenturies until only a few decades ago because they had almost no hierarchy.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 23, 2023 5:08 PM
Reply to  Rita

And that is precisely why the elite WASP&rich hegemons who colonized USA Inc annihilated Native American tribal roots almost totally (although a staunch remnant remains).

By deracinating the indigenous tribal roots so starkly, as they likewise separated black families radically at the auction block, they devastated all the populist broader (community) social networks which served as our defense against the oligarch perps. Leaving only rifle-toting clans and tiny pockets of grassroots-level resistance. Not great.

They drove a stake into the heart of “community.”

No wonder they are all the Raygun-esque wannabes who look for “commies” under every bed.

George Mc
George Mc
Aug 21, 2023 8:10 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

It’s not “incompetence, greed or just plain hubris”. There is a tension between two movements: on the one hand, the system itself relentlessly concentrates wealth. On the other, this very centralisation impoverishes increasingly vast swathes of the population and thereby threatens to encourage these people “start getting agitated and pushing for change”. Therefore the parasite class has to figure out ways of keeping the downtrodden masses sweet, distracted, confused etc. Unless of course they have now managed to implement such means as to disempower everyone. Which may increasingly be the case.

les online
les online
Aug 21, 2023 2:10 AM

During the past few months the US has been increasing its military forces in Syria – in the oil and gas rich area of Syria which the US occupies…It seems the US intends to defend itself against attempts to oust it from Syrian territory by Assad’s Syrian Arab Army… More recently the US proxy jihadi forces have aggressively increased their activities in the occupied area…… The Zerohedge site has posted an article about a stimulant drug, Captagon, ‘flooding the streets of Europe”…The drug is said to be manufactured and distributed by Assad’s Syria*… It’s a story about a Drug, a drug made in Syria, a drug ‘flooding the streets of Europe’ and it is coincident to the US build-up – in Syria. The story’s appearance may indicate that when the fighting to end the US occupation of Syria begins, the US corporate propaganda media may frame the fighting, for the… Read more »

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
Aug 22, 2023 12:45 AM
Reply to  les online

That was exactly why we in US invaded Syria and bombed the country to peace.

Mass Production of Destruction Captagon, invented by Assad only to destroy a peaceful America with its innocent citizens from within.

This is not something we sit on our thumb and think, nor do we believe in it. It is something we actually know from ultra high level VIP sources! Trust. https://youtu.be/FDbG-Vt1PYs

hotrod31
hotrod31
Aug 21, 2023 1:15 AM

Thanks for sharing.
I suspect that there are many, Mr & Ms Blues in the world. These people must be so conflicted by their [insider] knowledge and experiences that it must at some stage, weigh so heavily on their shoulders, that it will invariably make them ‘implode’. … of course that would depend on ‘their own’ orbital-associates not engineering their detonation, and/or … ‘implosion’.

Johnny
Johnny
Aug 21, 2023 12:24 AM

Lies self destruct.

Truth has a Life of its own.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 5:14 AM
Reply to  Johnny

Truth has a Life of His own (or Her, Its?).

It took me a while to grasp that Truth is not a thing but a Person. Deep, enough.

A monastic priest pointed out in recent times at Mass one Sunday that holiness, as well, is not a quality, let alone an abstraction, it is not a “what” but a Who. In other words It doesn’t exist in the abstract, but is incarnate?

That is a “nuanced” take, for many, that doesn’t get off the(ir) “ground” but I feel it’s important, or essential, to understand, and many really don’t even begin.

As far as some are concerned, such as yours truly, our Fates would be sealed without Truth, as One, Incarnate. By definition???

But then, I’m like that.

~~~~~~~~~~

“The Universe is labyrinth with a Heart at its center.

~ GKC, as expressed by his sleuth “Fr. Brown”

Johnny
Johnny
Aug 21, 2023 6:27 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I see Truth as a State of know-ledge rather than an ‘it’.
That state being immutable and as clear and pure as a mountain stream.

Human values
Human values
Aug 21, 2023 4:45 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Truth is not a person as person originally means ”a mask, a false face”.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/person

Who would you think is the truth, you and your body or someone else’s body, or maybe a corporate body?

The Trinitarian doctrine is not biblical, but it was made up by some men, their interpretations of the holy scripture. Also, the beginning of the cults of personality.

The idea that anyone personifies God here is authoritarian. Cults are always authoritarian.  

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 3:42 AM
Reply to  Human values

That’s mostly semantics. Personhood is rooted in each unique soul at its depth. I’ve heard Alan Watts, as an example, in many lectures discuss this issue at great depth, but in the end I returned to those extra-Christic talks mostly for the great entertainment value, even as he admits to triangulate my own position, or what I really believe.

“The universe is a labyrinth with a Heart at its center.” ~ GKC

Watts liked to quote Chesterton too, also a lot, and here’s a great one I heard from him, per the Poet:

“Now a strange thing in the street is every human nod, where shift in strange democracy the million masks of God.”

So a more pointed use of masks.

Human values
Human values
Aug 22, 2023 3:15 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

All that name-dropping reveals one thing only: your ego.

Dropping the ego reveals the soul.

You’ve put your trust in man that you call a Good Guy. Seriously, not good!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:21 PM
Reply to  Human values

That’s boorish and snide, lacking much evidence, if any. To accuse someone of name dropping excludes the other possibilities, such as that “persona” is drawing on direct evidence from a known name, also citing certain facts at first hand, which is at a real premium these days, especially with these subjects. Given the context here it’s just a troll ad hominem to discredit and weaken the unique evidence I can offer, if not just an unsporting go at taking someone else down a notch. I never use a known or well-known name without attaching it to important evidence or a point in some way. That’s not ego, for the most part, it’s called reporting things. And I was connected to a lot of this in the Sixties, often at one remove but close enough to add significant or unknown evidentiary comments and factual additions. It seems more appropriate to deal… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:42 PM
Reply to  Human values

TIMED OUT, RE-EDITED,: That’s boorish and snide, lacking much evidence, if any. To accuse someone of name dropping excludes the other possibilities, such as that “persona” is drawing on direct evidence from a known name, also citing certain facts at first hand, which is at a real premium these days, especially with these subjects. Given the context here it’s a suspect as a troll ad hominem to discredit and weaken what unique evidence I can offer, if not just an unsporting go at taking someone else down a notch. I try never to use either a known or well-known name as a “drop” unless attaching it to important evidence or a relevant point in some way. It’s called reporting things. And I was connected to a lot of this, as a lad “fly on the wall” in the Sixties, often at one remove but close enough to add significant or… Read more »

judith
judith
Aug 26, 2023 3:38 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I love the stories and the names. Keep them coming.

judith
judith
Aug 26, 2023 3:35 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I love Father Brown. Never read the books but watch the recent series on britbox. The simplicity. Not to mention the Cotswolds.

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 21, 2023 12:10 AM

If anyone wants to know the seedy details of the world network and how it operates in the USA, then read Whitney Webbs two volume series, “Nation Under Blackmail”.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 23, 2023 1:33 AM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

Well, your taking about US there, ‘blackmail’ actually doesn’t exist simply put lying isn’t a crime. That’s up to whomever as an Individual to sort out. Himself, it’s not We Us They or Them or even an IT.

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 23, 2023 7:41 PM
Reply to  Clive Williams

Lying is a crime under oath, and a crime when holding a public off, when the lie is about use of taxpayer funds or causes harm in anyway to the public.

Fritz
Fritz
Aug 20, 2023 11:46 PM

Mr. Curtin’s first link is in paragraph two which is to an Amazon book promotion, and his other link half way down is to Wikipedia. 🤔

If I were a lecturer or professor grading Mr. Curtin’s essay he’d obtain an “F”. 👎

wardropper
wardropper
Aug 21, 2023 3:24 AM
Reply to  Fritz

This sort of article certainly doesn’t help to clarify the current constant blurring of the line between fiction and actuality.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 23, 2023 3:15 AM
Reply to  wardropper

Fiction is dead give away you’ve been a follower of comic books., paper back rider..lol! dollies.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 5:35 AM
Reply to  Fritz

Well, point made, but I find that unusefully “purist”, as long as the citations Curtin made are accurate, which they are, and that to me is a lot more the point than where he got them. I met and talked a little with Dave Emory ( spitfirelist.com ); and he was asked about Wikipedia and he allowed that it’s relatively dependable “as long as you know your subject”. And his entire career, as the protegé of the heroic late Mae Brussel, has been at bigtime odds with CIA. I am sure that he knows that Wikipedia is extremely policed by CIA. But then what isn’t. As far as Amazon, they are very quick to use us, but I am served enough in using right back at them, once again by certain factoids and excerpts. They offer capsules and reviews and descriptions that many other preferred sites do not. I used… Read more »

Pilgrim Shadow
Pilgrim Shadow
Aug 20, 2023 11:45 PM

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 20, 2023 11:45 PM

“Mr. Blue” The eponym of my favorite read of ’72, by Myles Connolly, highly recommended by my pastor, so I got the epic slim volume, and owned it like a thumbnail hagiography from, and for, a world of magical realism. Myles Connolly, like his contemporary Charles de Gaulle, and much like his Hollywood friend and screenwriting colleague, Frank Capra, was an ardent Catholic, when all three found uncanny ways to expand the reach of their Faith. His character Blue told the imagined character narrating his tall “Franciscan” tale, that he belonged to “The Spies of God.” “THE SPIES OF GOD.” Curious way to put it. That phrase intrigued me at 19, and has always stuck with me ever since. So suggestive. [My senior namesake JWE, founder of ecjlaw com around BH 90210, was longtime attorney to the founder of Philosophical Research Society (one of a very small handful of subjects… Read more »

susan mullen
susan mullen
Aug 20, 2023 11:44 PM

Mr. Curtin, this man wasted your time. And he has no conscience.

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
Aug 20, 2023 11:30 PM

I still believe Lee Harvey Oswald did it, and no one is ever gonna make me believe otherwise no matter what you say!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 20, 2023 11:37 PM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

🤣🤔😱 & wow

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 21, 2023 12:07 AM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

So you are intimately familiar with MK-Ultra and MK-Naomi?
Did you ever meet Dr. West?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 12:33 AM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

I never had that misfortune, thanks to God, but my father, founder of ecj law com was attorney in all those years to Colonel Stafford L. Warren, who founded the UCLA Medical Department and in 65 returned in professor emeritus status, so he was the big man on campus when West was appointed head of the Psychiatry Department…. My father had to have known him and he was also attorney to Laura Huxley who I dined with in 67, and Robert Gérard, who along with Laura taught in the Psychiatry Department at UCLA. So you’re known by The company You keep. During the beginning of West’s tenure my father had brain surgery and afterwards post-operatively had what certainly looked to me, at 17, like episodes such as you might see out of MK ultra. What was amazing is that he returned to his law practice rather soon and was more… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 1:20 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I posted an edited copy also, since this has some typos. Chapter 6 of CHAOS is “Who Is Reeve Whitson” but the bot put “Winston” and other such gaffes. So my other copy is the director’s cut. Accept no substitutes!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 3:59 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Based on the fabulous historical novel, fixed in 1890s Paris by Robert Harris “An Officer and a Spy.” One of the most savvy and elegant historical novels I’ve ever read, and having been a young student & courier for Newsweek in Paris 50 years ago, at 25 rue de Berri, a stone’s throw from the tricolor-flagged Arch of Triumph, I was delighted to recognize his very deep knowledge of the locale, since I could still recognize almost all the many streets and place names. Just fabulous detail & depth in it, across the board. A real blast from the past. What a great book. And an uncannily important one. And Harris notes in the forward that it was suggested as a theme by the now-nonagenarian Polanski as sort of sequel to A Tale of Two Cities (Paris &:Berlin) a dozen years ago, and later they co-wrote the screenplay. A truly… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 1:04 AM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

TIMED OUT, EDIT: Dr.” Louis Jolyon West. AKA, “Jolly” West. CIA chief Dr. Sidney Gottlieb’s key co-perp and disciple in crime in all things MKUltra. Names that will surely “live in infamy.” No, I never had that misfortune, thanks to God, but my father, founder of ecj law com, was attorney in all those years to Colonel Stafford L. Warren, a famous figure (Manhattan Project etc) who founded the UCLA Medical Department and in ’65 returned in professor emeritus status, and was the big man on campus then when West was appointed head of the Psychiatry Department…. So. My father had to have known him and he was also attorney to Laura Huxley who I dined with in ’67, and Robert Gérard, who along with Laura taught in the Psychiatry Department at UCLA for decades. So you’re known by The company You keep. During the beginning of Jolly West’s tenure… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 2:28 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Typo above: Reeve was pals (not “towels”, sheesh) with Otto Skorzeny (“Hitler’s Bodyguard” and France’s choice as “most dangerous man in Europe.” And founder in Argentina of global Nazi “support” fraternity: “die Spinne” or “Spider” such as patrols a global “Web” or WWW ? His wife, Countess Ilse von Finkelstein was known for giving the Nazi salute recklessly whenever inebriated.) The book “Chaos” also relates how Reeve Whitson teamed up with General Curtis LeMay as his sidekick in the months after the Tate murders in LA, where they were making the rounds, investigating, as a very dynamic duo.

[There are those who may recognize “Bombs Away” LeMay as the model that Stanley Kubrick and Terry Southern had in mind for “General Jack D. Ripper”, the man in charge of the Air Force, and also of nuking the world, in “Doctor Strangelove.”

Fiction, then.]

MaryLS
MaryLS
Aug 21, 2023 4:25 AM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

That’s funny.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 23, 2023 3:38 AM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

Not Matt Damon then, whom was obviously a time warped British ‘born’ identity 007 former Sassoon Salon hair stylist.
Is it Lee Oswald yankie dollie,.. or Harvey Oswald….it’s kind of Important coming going through Customs YA TWIT.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 20, 2023 11:08 PM

“Maybe there never really was an America. Maybe it was all Frank Capra.”

~ John Cassavetes, actor and friend of Frank Capra, screenwriter friend of colleague Myles Connolly, author of “Mr. Blue” and “the spies of God”

Edward Curtin
Edward Curtin
Aug 21, 2023 12:04 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Connolly, a Bostonian, was a good friend of Joseph Kennedy who got him to come to Hollywood to work for him. He was also the godfather of three of Capra’s children. His book Mr. Blue was a favorite of mine when young. My title probably derives from his book wit the “CIA” added. What I have written is all factual true, just disguised to protect my source who wishes to remain anonymous – at least for now. And there is much more to his story that I couldn’t tell or else it would reveal his identity. People shouldn’t doubt the factual nature of what I have written.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 1:47 AM
Reply to  Edward Curtin

Yes, I got that much. I was getting all, or many, of the West Coast Variations on the Theme of your own storyline, or his, as they unfolded here around L.A.. I found out about 5 years ago that the first priest I had worked with on a parish level, in Long Beach California (St. Anthony’s, the HS of Cardinal Levada) was unbeknownst, when we knew each other mid-80s, the priest who gave Bobby his Last Rites at Good Samaritan Hospital and stayed to comfort Ethel Kennedy all night in their vigil. Fr. Thomas Peacha, RIP. An interesting story in its own right. (Not to mention I was born in that very hospital 16 years prior.) I didn’t know about Capra’s JPK connections but it makes total sense. I have an embarrassment of riches, or dots, to connect in all this, since my old man was the long time attorney… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 7:31 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I meant Connolly & JPK, not Capra. Of course!

Edwige
Edwige
Aug 21, 2023 8:25 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Cassavetes, who plays the actor who sells his wife to the Devil in ‘Rosemary’s Baby’…. filmed in the Dakota Building where John Lennon was assassinated.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 8:28 PM
Reply to  Edwige

I was thinking of Cassavetes and his bravura turn in that Polanski morality play. I only saw it within the last few months for the first time since it’s 68 release, as a necessary part of my months’ long research into all things Polanski. Fascinating that his wife Sharon, whom I refer to elsewhere on this thread, was provably (now) a victim of MKUltra and it’s quite the coincidence that Lennon’s assassin Mark Chapman was hired as a guard at Fort Chaffee in Arkansas by World Vision which is a pseudo-Christian front for the very fascist, Nazi in its flavors, far right program that was headed there by John Hinckley Senior? Pretty interesting and relevant, since Junior shot (at) newly incoming Prez Ronnie Raygun only days (about 100+) after Chapman murdered Lennon?:Hmm. But the eerie coup de gråce is that we see Cassavetes and Mia Farrow framed in the light… Read more »

judith
judith
Aug 21, 2023 12:34 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

John Cassavetes. Brilliant. And Gina.
Woman Under the Influence.
OT, but nonetheless.

judith
judith
Aug 21, 2023 12:36 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

I wrote a reply to this that is in pending.
It should be “Gena”, not “Gina”.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 7:24 PM
Reply to  judith

Isn’t pending just the bane. I’m thinking “Rowlands” though I’m guessing, since your pendable piece hasn’t popped up.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 20, 2023 9:39 PM

“Mr. Blue” The eponym of my favorite book of ’72, by Myles Connolly, highly recommended by my pastor, so I got the epic slim volume, and owned it like a thumbnail hagiography from, and for, a world of magical realism. Myles Connolly, like his contemporary Charles de Gaulle, and much like his Hollywood friend and screenwriting colleague, Frank Capra, was an ardent Catholic, when all three found uncanny ways to expand the reach of their Faith. His character Blue told the imagined character narrating his tall “Franciscan” tale, that he belonged to “The Spies of God.” “THE SPIES OF GOD.” Curious way to put it. That phrase intrigued me at 19, and has always stuck with me ever since. So suggestive. [My senior namesake JWE, founder of ecjlaw com around BH 90210, was longtime attorney to the founder of Philosophical Research Society (one of a very small handful of subjects… Read more »

lynch
lynch
Aug 20, 2023 9:38 PM

Wow ed that was a Cheap paint job..
Off Guardian showing its endorsement for RFK jr and leading the lost conservatives that will vote democrats in 2024 for RFK jr.
comment image

Rob
Rob
Aug 20, 2023 10:21 PM
Reply to  lynch

I’m not saying it’s gonna be better, but rfk Jr seems to be the first human being running for office.
We were fooled by Reagan and a few others, but they weren’t even as close to the humility of rfk Jr.
I know the position of president is a puppet, but as we learned with Trump, it pays to have a big mouth president who uses the platform to mention things that even the media won’t.

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 21, 2023 12:09 AM
Reply to  Rob

RFK Jr. is not against poison jabs, he is only against the CONVID poison jab.
He also made is clear that he would annihilate the Second Amendment if he could.
He believes in Climate Change.

RFK Jr. is just another banker boss puppet POS.

WTAF do you expect when the last name is Kennedy?

judith
judith
Aug 21, 2023 12:42 PM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

He is NOT only against the “convid” jab.
He has been working on behalf of vaccine injured since 2004. Way before the recent nightmare.
He has said consistently that he is not anti-vax. He is for SAFE vaccines. Which he, and everyone including the Supreme Court, know do not exist.
I have some issues with him as a Presidential candidate, but the work he has done with Children’s Health Defense is amazing.
I credit him and CHD with my not having taken the recent shot. And not taking anymore flu or other shots.

Researcher
Researcher
Aug 21, 2023 6:41 PM
Reply to  judith

Once you come to the factual realization there are no viruses, and germ theory was always fake, you’ll begin to glean that their world (Kennedy’s-Bush-Fauci-Trump and the news media and so called government etc) is full of fakery and they are all laughing behind the scenes.

ALL the so-called freedom fighters or prominent anti-injection spokespeople are in on every aspect of the fakery. They’re stage managed puppeteers, including RFK, Wakefield, Mikovits et al. Same with Catherine Austin Fitts.

They are putting on a show for you, and you believe every part of the show because you are still 100% asleep.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 4:20 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Well, it mostly seems mostly that way. Zzzzzzz.
(!)

There is an exculpatory aspect though that people who get caught up in all of that even with the best intentions have to play their card strategically or pay the price so that could exonerate at least an itty bit of them. Maybe more but I don’t want to encourage bad behavior it gets enough.

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 21, 2023 6:47 PM
Reply to  judith

He is a flip flopper just like any other banker boss puppet POS.
If he is for SAFE vaccines, then he is for jabs. By saying he supports something that doesn’t exist, then he is just playing along.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HUHwoa_p8yw

Thomas L Frey
Thomas L Frey
Aug 21, 2023 6:54 PM
Reply to  judith

This is who RFK Jr. really works for.

https://youtu.be/m3iXQCfGv1s?si=vqCczcZEZ30XUoKv

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 8:50 PM
Reply to  judith

Hear, hear! RFK Jr., like his namesake, has a decades long track record as a Good Guy!

Very. He had many quite awesome shows on Air America almost a quarter century ago, and others long before that!

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 8:52 PM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

RFK Jr., like his namesake, has a decades long track record as a Good Guy!

Desist from smearing him, and falsely, please.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Aug 27, 2023 7:00 PM
Reply to  Thomas L Frey

His perspicacity is demonstrated by his position on that tiny nation on the banks of the eastern Mediterranean. He knows exactly who took out his closest relatives and why. And he has position himself accordingly.
If that’s OK with you, then Enjoy!

lynch
lynch
Aug 21, 2023 8:56 AM
Reply to  Rob

I’m not saying it’s gonna be better, but rfk Jr seems to be the first human being running for office.

you all said that about trump  💤  and the populist leaders  💤 

Mars
Mars
Aug 22, 2023 6:21 AM
Reply to  Rob

Grew up in “Kennedy Country”, MA, about an hr from The Compound.
Later on protesting @ the Bush Compound.
They might as well be the same place (even though it’s 2 diff. states)….bc they’re in the same freaking club!
Why do ppl want to be duped so hard?? A duping addiction?
I don’t understand it.

“We were fooled by Reagan & a few others”….
but THIS TIME…. it’ll be different!
(He acts so much better/nicer….he’s articulate…and I can see his abs).
*Cue Lucy, holding the football for Chuck Brown* (ugh)

Hemlockfen
Hemlockfen
Aug 20, 2023 9:03 PM

I gots to know…….

Brianborou
Brianborou
Aug 20, 2023 9:03 PM

The truth will’s out !

Hereticdrummer
Hereticdrummer
Aug 20, 2023 9:00 PM

That is obviously why the geoengineers keep the weather relatively stable in the northeast United States juxtaposed to the rest of the world. However, I find it interesting that but for a brief mention of the Mossad, no mention was made of the awesome Jewish power and its nefarious effects on the U.S. and the world. Fact is, the Rothschild banking dynasty with its subsidiary financial titans, Blackrock and Vanguard, possess assets in the Trillions, almost incalculable wealth and the power that goes with it. They own and/or control every major corporation and business enterprise on earth. No WASP or Anglo consortium can come close to matching this let alone exceeding it. So as per usual, it is much more relevant what this mystery man is not saying.

judith
judith
Aug 21, 2023 12:45 PM
Reply to  Hereticdrummer

Well, the WASPs and the Anglo’s sure have had a great deal to do with colonialism, slaughter and mayhem. Just ask the Chinese, Indians, Native American’s, African’s, Haitians, Irish et al.

Hereticdrummer
Hereticdrummer
Aug 21, 2023 7:45 PM
Reply to  judith

Those WASPS have long been under the Jewish thumb. It is historical fact that the Jewish banking houses, most notably the Rothschilds, but there were others, intermarried with Anglo nobility and royalty centuries ago. As a humorous anecdote, when I was in High school, I knew a Jew who was a doppelganger for the current English King, Charles. Further, with control of the currencies, the Jews attained de facto control of the nations, meaning of course the major foreign and domestic policies (just like in the U.S.). Their plethora of high level Anglo & WASP sycophants and surrogates does not in one scintilla detract from the fact that they call the shots.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Aug 21, 2023 9:45 PM
Reply to  Hereticdrummer

‘Govern me harder tatti’.

Get a room.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 8:53 PM
Reply to  judith

“Et al.” Aplenty.

Vagabard
Vagabard
Aug 20, 2023 7:52 PM

A perfect source of completely unadulterated truth? I suppose we can all dream

Violet
Violet
Aug 20, 2023 7:00 PM

This sounds like a poor attempt at fiction like something out of jackanory 💤💤

Gloria Claggg
Gloria Claggg
Aug 20, 2023 9:14 PM
Reply to  Violet

Load of old cobblers!🤯

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 20, 2023 10:16 PM
Reply to  Violet

That’s news to me, since I have lived a lot of it, as he tells it. So many dots connect to my own share of dots ,(too many).

I have the West Coast bonanza of dots, near or around ’60s UCLA & BH 90210, and Hollywood, north, south, and west, and Mr. Curtin seems to have as many or more of the East Coast collection.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 21, 2023 3:12 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

John
Does this help define the view The Americas. with the North Eastern part of the US. I’ve not heard of Niebuhr naturally, but I like the links of important people on realism.
Thanks

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 21, 2023 4:59 AM
Reply to  Clive Williams

Niebuhr was a significant genius along many lines. MLK said that his writings influenced him even more than Gandhi. But it’s noteworthy that Niebuhr declined to participate in some of MLK’s suggested actions when approached by him. Nevertheless Reinhold Niebuhr was a significant mind and had a lot to say: I suppose I need to dig further to see where Mr Curtin feels he went astray? One cornerstone of his progressive thought is virtually my credo: “It is my strong conviction that a realist concept of human nature should be made the servant of an ethic of progressive Justice, and not turned into a bastion of conservatism especially one which defends unjust privileges.” What’s not to love about that? Or the serenity prayer of Alcoholics Anonymous, which was extracted from an essay written by him. All that is in Bobby’s Kennedy~wheelhouse. My views are almost never of a fully fixed… Read more »

Ort
Ort
Aug 21, 2023 7:29 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

I refuse to search for links to that degenerate and depraved rag, “Rolling Stone”, but FWIW I first heard of Reinhold Niebuhr when I read the late, great Doctor of Gonzo Journalism Hunter S. Thompson’s enthusiastic profile of Jimmy Carter written in 1976, IIRC. Thompson was particularly impressed with then-Governor Jimmy Carter’s May 4, 1974 Law Day address. Here’s the salient excerpt: My own interest in the criminal justice system is very deep and heartfelt. Not having studied law, I’ve had to learn the hard way. I read a lot and listen a lot. One of the sources for my understanding about the proper application of criminal justice and the system of equity is from reading Reinhold Niebuhr, one of his books that Bill Gunter gave me quite a number of years ago. The other source of my understanding about what’s right and wrong in this society is from a friend… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 4:34 AM
Reply to  Ort

Niebuhr is very pedagogical and like the best teachers, like CS Lewis & GKC & Eckhart Tolle, he can condense a lot of intellectual landscape into a few words, a few principles and ideas, major maxims, which is very helpful for aging wannabe autodidacts (such as myself).

Such as:

“Self-righteousness is always the result of simplistic moral judgments.”

You can get crash courses on many important things by simply reading just quotations of Niebuhr. (GoodReads’ got ’em.)

Here are many that are a sensation as instant education:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/31146.Reinhold_Niebuhr

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 4:54 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

My favorite of his oft-cited comments, as used as epigraph to Thomas Cahill’s “How the Irish saved Civilization” and a “One-Stop Shop” of Orthodox theology or really any? THIS CLASSIC: “Nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime; therefore we must be saved by hope. Nothing which is true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore we must be saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we must be saved by love. No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as it is from our standpoint. Therefore we must be saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness.” [That was the excerpt as quoted by Cahill, but Nebuhr himself concluded: “No act of ours is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friends or… Read more »

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 22, 2023 5:03 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

I meant it all in bold, but it got mishandled by software somehow. Where would be the charm without insidious errors.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Aug 23, 2023 5:06 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Problematical for the America’s was the sea ocean link chain was broken in 1968 transatlantic crossings., as an nesscessity for Americans hopefully via air travel advance their seats of public teachings learnings, a worldly perspective by fifteen year old, but it never happened. Quite the opposite in fact which leads us once more to the twin world’s powers space race to the Moon. The American dream gone bad imo. Chief of which US adds very little credence to anyone other than itself Visa investments overseas.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Aug 23, 2023 5:36 PM
Reply to  Clive Williams

Intentionally unintelligible, or otherwise?

NixonScraypes
NixonScraypes
Aug 20, 2023 11:31 PM
Reply to  Violet

I was sitting comfortably….and then he began

Violet
Violet
Aug 21, 2023 4:26 PM
Reply to  NixonScraypes

🤣