82

Democracy is Not the Same as Freedom

Todd Hayen

You hear the word “democracy” thrown around quite a bit these days. “Democracy is being destroyed in the United States by Donald Trump!!” and “Democracy is being destroyed in the United States by Joe Biden!”

Every time we turn around we are being told that democracy is being destroyed by this or that—in the US, Canada, the UK, Germany, North Korea—oops, they don’t have any democracy to destroy, right? I forgot.

Not only is democracy being destroyed in all of our previously democratic countries, but it is being destroyed in countries that never had democracy, or haven’t had it before recently acquiring it. All of us democratic countries also have to be the ones responsible for maintaining democracy everywhere else in the world—like the lack of democracy, or lost democracy, will somehow rub off on us, or it will spread to us like some sort of infectious disease.

We must kill “non-democracy” before it spreads, because the more countries that are not democratic, the more likely we, the US and Canada, and anywhere else that is “free,” will get struck down and crumble. Very much like what happens when you have a bad apple in a bushel basket filled with other, healthy, apples. The rest of the apples will surely go bad.

But here’s the rub—“freedom” being conflated with “democracy.”

A democratic country is not necessarily a free country. And although I don’t know of any of these, I don’t think a free country needs to be democratic—a strong constitution is all that is needed, really. A strong constitution and a strong means to protect it.

Even countries that claim to be democratic are not free, often they are not even democratic. Take the late GDR for example—the German Democratic Republic, East Germany. They were clearly a communist country which afforded the populace very little freedom. While the GDR technically held elections, they were more symbolic than democratic, serving to legitimize the authority of the ruling party rather than offer genuine choice and representation to the people. Their government was complex, as are most governments, and even though a country may tout being a democracy, it often is far from it—at least far from what the general populace believes democracy to be.

I will not claim I even begin to know what the “general populace” thinks democracy is, but I doubt if I would be far from the mark if I said most people define democracy as “the people having the freedom to choose their leaders, typically through a popular vote”—majority rule. But it seems to be far more complicated than that. We must answer questions regarding the definition of “popular” vote, questions (in the US) about the electoral college, questions about who gets to vote, and who gets to be candidates, and who doesn’t, and whether that vote is administered legally and fairly. These considerations mentioned here are only a drop in the bucket, and they are essential to contemplate before we understand exactly what democracy is.

And why is democracy always conflated with freedom? If any of the above complexities are not handled fairly and transparently, you can easily construct a corrupt system of “voting” that entirely misses the point of freedom of choice. Let me use the former GDR as another example here. In that country, which called itself a democracy, The Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED), the ruling communist party, held a monopoly on power and tightly controlled the electoral process. Opposition parties were not allowed, and the SED effectively predetermined the outcome of elections. Voting was also not truly secret, as the government could monitor and punish those who did not support the regime. Additionally, only candidates from the SED-led National Front were allowed to run for office, ensuring that the ruling party maintained control over the government. Jump back to a “free democratic society”— supposing the populace did all decide on one leader in a free, corrupt-less, vote, there is no guarantee that the elected leader would do a single thing he or she promised in order to ensure his or her election. Is that freedom?

On the other hand, what if the “people” want a corrupt leader? Or a leader they think will do right by them, and do not give any scrutiny or thought whatsoever regarding the method the leader will use to accomplish his or her promises? What if the majority of the people want a fascist dictator (Hitler was, after all, voted into office), or want a communist government, or, closer to home, want to vote for socialism, and thus lose many freedoms they previously had.

I’ll turn now to Ayn Rand, an author and philosopher of the early to mid-20th Century. She is famous for such books as The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. Here is a quote from one of Rand’s ardent followers, Leonard Piekoff, which certainly reflects her own philosophy:

Democracy, in short, is a form of collectivism, which denies individual rights: the majority can do whatever it wants with no restrictions. In principle, the democratic government is all-powerful. Democracy is a totalitarian manifestation; it is not a form of freedom…”

And a quote directly from Rand herself (found as Chapter 12, “Theory and Practice” in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal):

“This means that the majority may vote away the rights of a minority—and dispose of an individual’s life, liberty, and property, until such time, if ever, as he is able to gather his own majority gang. This, somehow, will guarantee political freedom.

But wishing won’t make it so—neither for an individual nor for a nation. Political freedom requires much more than the people’s wish. It requires an enormously complex knowledge of political theory and of how to implement it in practice.

It took centuries of intellectual, philosophical development to achieve political freedom. It was a long struggle, stretching from Aristotle to John Locke to the Founding Fathers. The system they established was not based on unlimited majority rule, but on its opposite: on individual rights, which were not to be alienated by majority vote or minority plotting. The individual was not left at the mercy of his neighbors or his leaders: the Constitutional system of checks and balances was scientifically devised to protect him from both.”

I have to admit, I am not a fervent fan of Rand’s philosophies, but this bit does make sense to me.

I recently viewed a nine-part Netflix documentary Turning Point: The Bomb and the Cold War. Throughout this master production of propaganda, I became numb to the word “democracy.” Democracy this, democracy that.

They must have uttered the word 1,000 times in describing the importance of preserving democracy in this country and in that country—particularly regarding Ukraine.

Very seldom did they articulate the word “freedom.” And it seemed that the only illustration of freedom in these countries threatened with losing their democracy were swarms of people protesting.

Yes, free assemblage and peaceful protest is indeed an example of freedom. But it isn’t the only one, and it isn’t the only freedom people lose when ruled by a totalitarian government. Maybe masses of people protesting the government is an example of democracy, but it is only one aspect of freedom—freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom to worship, freedom from the tyranny of medicine, freedom to be an autonomous being with inalienable rights. On and on.

Trust me, I do not hate the idea of democracy or majority rule. However, at its best, it has problems as Rand so eloquently pointed out. But what we are seeing in our present world, democracy is definitely not at its best, and the powers that be manipulate the word to mean what is best for them. The battle you and I face is not a battle for democracy, it is a battle for freedom.

Don’t let them trick you into thinking otherwise.

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Tryfon Farmakakis
Tryfon Farmakakis
May 31, 2024 9:35 AM

Honestly, it is becoming tiresome to read diatribes of well-read people about democracy which read like the works of a five-year old who doesn’t know what he is talking about, and getting intrigued by old-worn and long ago deconstructed arguments against democracy, as the one quoted by Rand.
I guess it is the outcome of being thoroughly indoctrinated since your tenderest of years that you live in the most advanced democracy in the world. Wake up people, western regimes are not democracies, they are republics, it is quite a completely different regime. Go read some political philosophy before starting to mumble about it with kindergarten argumentation.
Anyway, you can read an introduction on the subject in a relevant article I wrote for this website a few years ago: https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/18/we-do-not-live-in-a-true-democracy/

Tryfon Farmakakis
Tryfon Farmakakis
May 31, 2024 9:42 AM

Ian Davis also authored an excellent article about the subject recently for this website: https://off-guardian.org/2022/04/15/democracy-is-dead-long-live-democracy/

Tryfon Farmakakis
Tryfon Farmakakis
May 31, 2024 10:02 AM

Also read Ian Davis’s recent article about the same subject, also published in this website: https://off-guardian.org/2022/04/15/democracy-is-dead-long-live-democracy/

Edith
Edith
May 24, 2024 10:05 PM

Democracy: 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to eat for dinner

KiwiJoker
KiwiJoker
May 20, 2024 9:18 PM

The only eventuality you are not free from is death…

Everything else is freedom of choice.

The door is always open.

Howard
Howard
May 20, 2024 4:12 PM

It was refreshing to see Ayn Rand mentioned in Dr. Hayen’s essay. It was kind of like “old home week” for me. In my college days, I climbed on board the Ayn Rand Objectivism band wagon (I’ve been “off the wagon” for about 60 years now). Ms. Rand extols the virtue of freedom – in particular the freedom of the creators (without whose creative acumen the rest of us would starve) to do their thing. The rest of us are also 100% free in the Randian world – to pursue any job we wish in the society the creators create. And, as a corollary, to accept any pay we wish along the pay scale the creators think appropriate for our labor. And therein hangs a tale, doesn’t it? (I’ve never engaged in self-promotion before – and hopefully never will again. But I wrote a short story, a parody of “Atlas… Read more »

gbossa
gbossa
May 20, 2024 6:17 AM

The U.S. and other Western nations are – “democracies” – in the very same sense that a biological male proclaiming himself to have magically “trans-formed” into – “a woman” – is actually a woman. As in only some fantasy world where “wishes” and “feelings” trump material reality.

Carol -Documentary Film U
Carol -Documentary Film U
May 20, 2024 3:21 AM

Sunday May 19, 2024

Democracy is a Mirage…!

U.S.A. since 9/11 and Pandemic Engages in Targeted Retribution, Retaliation, Vengeance, Punishment & More

Freedom of Speech, All Consitutional Rights & Due Process All Intentionally Violated

The U.S. Government, All Federal, State, City and County Courts both Civil and Criminal, All Federal State, City Agencies.
All Public Officials, All Law Enforcement, All Public Servants, All Politicians and More….

Continue to VIOLATE with INTENT the Rights of American Citizens….

A. Violations&Retaliation of FREE Speech
B. Violations&Obstruction Due Process
1. Deprivation of Rights
2. Conspiracy of Rights
3. Abuse of Power under Color of Law
4. Public Corruption
5. Judicial Corruption
6. Fraud
7. Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice
8. Filing of False Instruments
9. Destruction of Evidence
10. So much more

Junious Ricardo Stanton
Junious Ricardo Stanton
May 20, 2024 2:55 AM

We are being propagandized about the threats to “democracy” especially in the US; despite the fact special interest groups have totally captured and control the political process and pretty much rendered it useless. It is a rigged system. We have been duped and brainwashed to believe it is the best form of governance known to man. First of all direct elections were never the norm in Europe. A few British colonists who would become “founding fathers” were exposed to the idea of representative governance by the Iroquois Delawares and Susquehannas, the indigenous inhabitants of the Northeast. https://www.chickasaw.tv/episodes/our-history-is-world-history-season-5-episode-1-tribal-councils-benjamin-franklin-s-framework-for-democracy https://www.thoughtco.com/native-american-influence-on-founding-fathers-2477984 The system is not designed for multi party inclusion and participation. In the US it is extremely difficult to get third party candidates on the ballot because the system is structured to have only two major parties (one actually with minor differences) and cracking that system requires vast sums of money to… Read more »

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 20, 2024 2:17 AM

The battle for freedom? Already fought in 1770.
“Democracy serves you right to suffer baby. But the good days are gone”. J. Geils band.
https://youtu.be/W3Xt6Y2RUYg

Human values
Human values
May 19, 2024 10:33 PM

Where’s your freedom if you’re forced to obey the majority vote/decision?

What is the individual that doesn’t belong to the collective?

What’s wrong with equality and freedom for everyone?

Aren’t you an individual one in the collective everyone?

Isn’t what’s good for everyone good enough for you?

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
May 19, 2024 11:13 PM
Reply to  Human values

If you can grow your own wheat, grind it and bake bread, Build your own house and protect yourself from predators, congratulations.

Otherwise it’s comply or starve

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
May 19, 2024 10:04 PM

A rational counter to the collectivist ideology pushed by Tyson & co would be based around Due Process; i.e. the Magna Carta. And it would require the “scientists” to give evidence under oath in support of their claims. However, I think we’re stuck with hoping that the jab cull will be sufficient!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/deprivations-of-liberty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause

Neil deGrasse Tyson on “the social contract of public health”.
Clip: 1:37
https://rumble.com/v24xlp4-pbd-and-neil-degrasse-tyson-duke-it-out-on-the-morality-of-forcing-covid-in.html

Full Video (I couldn’t get past a couple of minutes!):

Neil deGrasse Tyson
PBD Podcast
Ep. 223
Streamed live on Jan 9, 2023
In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Neil deGrasse Tyson and Adam Sosnick.

Tor Guttorm Syvertsen
Tor Guttorm Syvertsen
May 19, 2024 9:48 PM

“In a democracy the people choose a leader in whom they trust. Then the chosen leader says, ‘Now shut up and obey me.’ People and party are then no longer free to interfere in his business.”
― Max Weber (1864-1920)

SunBear
SunBear
May 22, 2024 11:25 AM

Some more from Weber’s Poltics As A Vocation: “‘Every state is founded on force,’ said Trotsky. That is indeed right. If no social institutions existed which knew the use of violence, then the concept of state would be eliminated, and a condition would emerge that could be designated as anarchy, in the specific sense of this word. Of course, force is certainly not the normal or the only means of the state, but force is a means specific to the state. We have to say that today a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory. Note that ‘territory’ is one of the characteristics of the state. Specifically, at the present time, the right to use physical force is ascribed to other institutions or to individuals only to the extent to which the state permits it. The state is considered… Read more »

Voltaria Voltaire
Voltaria Voltaire
May 19, 2024 7:35 PM

Well, if one were to look carefully, and survey carefully, one would find that the majority ARE in favor of individual rights. Of course a bought and paid for media would never want you to realize that because it would threaten them. If people really knew that the majority wanted individual rights, well people might just have a renaissance like uprising. They might just feel safe enough to say “NO!!!” to the few sicko psycho bastards that think they can buy and force their way into any and all forms of human degradation that attempts to make nothing out of the value of individual human lives.

Lizzyh7
Lizzyh7
May 19, 2024 5:39 PM

Ah yes, Ayn Rand, that shining literary beacon of trite platitudes on the “free market.” Did you ever manage to hack through “Atlas Shrugged?” How about that long, long screed out of “John Galt,” the hero of that insipid book? I admit, I never did make it through that 75 page long ramble, but I did read most of her corny book, although only the once as that was about all I could stomach. Trite never has done it for me. Rand was certainly long winded and could come up with many pretty words to describe “freedom” but freedom for whom? For rapacious capitalists to tell themselves that amassing all the wealth of humanity was a good thing, and that those same capitalists were merely trying to preserve capitalism and the “free market” for all those dirty idiot plebes who perhaps wanted some say in how all that capital amassed… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
May 20, 2024 5:15 AM
Reply to  Lizzyh7

Far too much analysis. There are only 2 groups manipulating and devouring us: the scheming hoarder psychos and the traitorous public servants (including legislators and judges). Their relationship is oligarchy. Most of propaganda originating from US tries to deflect blame for every outrage from public servants and make it a matter for private legal contention (liability).

sandy
sandy
May 19, 2024 5:17 PM

Electing “leaders” is not democracy, it’s a republic. Even Republicans frequently clarify that the US is a republic, not a democracy. They like leaders telling the plebs what to do and make no bones about it. One can call our system a Representative democracy, but noen of the voting public is “represented” by this Uniparty system. Both Parties and the CLUB’s Bar Association are private membership associations which are not ruled by law, nor do they follow law. They make up and apply rules as they deem necessary. It is a cloaked form of totalitarianism. On the other hand, real democracy is problem-solving design and direct vote on policy. Small and large tribes collectively self-ruled themselves in this manner until agriculture halted hunter-gatherer living off nature. Rand was a psychopath with egomaniacal intent that is essentially anti-social. Tell me a tribe of 50 would tolerate any one person having/accumulating more… Read more »

Big Al
Big Al
May 19, 2024 9:03 PM
Reply to  sandy

Whether or not it works or not doesn’t mean that the system is not “representative democracy”. It’s pretty simple, it’s a system where the people democratically elect representatives to represent them. Of course we all know they don’t represent “us”, but that’s still what the system is.

sandy
sandy
May 19, 2024 10:18 PM
Reply to  Big Al

They call it “representative democracy” but it is not. They call the police, courts and jails the “justice system”, but it is not. If anything is not what it’s name’s definition is, it is NOT what they call it. Anybody can say or write a word. But making it correct attribution to a reality is what me must only accept. The logic of your argument is self-defeating, as it accepts no-solution as a solution. It is not,

Big Al
Big Al
May 20, 2024 4:17 AM
Reply to  sandy

You’re not getting my point, I’m not sure why. We agree the end result is not democracy, representative, but that doesn’t mean that technically that IS what the system is supposed to be. You can’t parse that? Your response here makes little sense.

sandy
sandy
May 22, 2024 11:05 PM
Reply to  Big Al

Are you a human or a supposed-to-be human. The US has NEVER been a representative democracy because it excluded a majority of society. I get the same argument from people supporting “capitalism”, who counter criticism by saying it’s not capitalism, it’s supposed to be capitalism. The old “free market” argument. My response is for all of us to stop accepting these abominable systems they control by saying “well it’s supposed to be”. The words are just a wrapper hiding unknown contents. If we want everyone to collectively problem solve, design, approve, implement and oversee policy then that’s what we should only accept. Whether you call it democracy or republic is irrelevant. Throw the word democracy under the bus and create the above “system” and name it uniquely as defining the above conditions and let’s move toward that solution. Hashing and rehashing what “democracy” is simulates nothing, which is what the… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
May 20, 2024 5:23 AM
Reply to  sandy

Your 90% pass rate for consensus itself was a trap. How may laws get 90% approval in any legislature?

sandy
sandy
May 22, 2024 11:08 PM
Reply to  mgeo

You did not read what i wrote. It worked as designated. Anyone who fears democracy being mob rule, cannot fear it with 90% consensus with a Bill of Rights that protects that 10% from harm. Agreed upon rates of consensus with established rights of protection makes it all happen.

purgatorium
purgatorium
May 19, 2024 5:05 PM

It took centuries of intellectual, philosophical development to achieve political freedom. It was a long struggle, stretching from Aristotle to John Locke to the Founding Fathers. The system they established was not based on unlimited majority rule, but on its opposite: on individual rights, which were not to be alienated by majority vote or minority plotting. The individual was not left at the mercy of his neighbors or his leaders: the Constitutional system of checks and balances was scientifically devised to protect him from both.”

Do you see why *quoting Ayn Rand* is not a smart move?

Constitutional system of checks and balances was *scientifically devised*

purgatorium
purgatorium
May 19, 2024 5:02 PM

You may be relieved to know that it’a “free world” and there is such a thing as World Congress of LGBT Jews.
Imagine that.

j d
j d
May 19, 2024 5:02 PM

Democracy is a cult, it is theatre. You, cannot effect meaningful change at the ballot box, it is not allowed. That is not how the system works. It is all a game. The system, ‘Caesar’ – institutionalised man, and womankind, power, covers all ‘sides’, no matter who you, vote for ‘Caesar’ always wins. None of those that you, vote in have any ‘power’, whether a President Trump or Biden, a Prime Minister Sunak or Starmer, they do not make decisions. They are puppets doing as they are told by the shadow government/deep state/whatever you, want to call it that continues on, and is why nothing changes no matter who you, vote for. You did not vote for it, and cannot vote it out. Caesar seeks to perpetuate itself, for which it requires your participation. *”Who is Caesar? A core part of Caesar’s strategy is that you can never clearly identify… Read more »

TRT
TRT
May 19, 2024 4:46 PM

Important article. The most important fight right now is for freedom. It’s the greatest threat we face. We would need to overthrow oligarchy to attain real (direct) democracy, which is something we’ve never had anyway. We’ve only had the appearance of democracy with the existence of ‘democratic’ institutions, enough to fool most of the population.

Although even in a direct democracy freedom/liberty would need to be vigilantly protected independent of democracy and not be subjected to a vote of any kind. The majority have no more right to impose tyranny on the individual than a minority of rulers does.

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2024 2:43 PM

’tis truly a golden age for pervy predators. Jimmy Savile looks up from Hell and wishes he’d been born half a century later.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN5Dq-aWcAAKed_?format=jpg&name=large

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2024 2:46 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Should have offered more context. This is new YMCA policy. See here:

https://twitter.com/LisenBarter/status/1791944560739770782

I look forward to the updated Village People song.

Bryan
Bryan
May 19, 2024 2:26 PM

The problem of definition and determination has vexed philosophers, particularly analytic philosophers, for millennia (see below.) The horns of the dilemma are that if we do not assume name-essence theology (supernatural power of ideal causal naming; ontologism as deontologism via the power of the word)…. Then what? Without necessary ontogenic connection, names are arbitrarily assigned symbols that mean nothing except by imposed convention. Even analytic philosophers can only assign contingent association of properties after Kripke. Names mean by extensional or ostensive pointing to things for which the labelling has no necessary causal determination whatsoever. When Aristotle came up with his ‘essential’ metaphors, he could point to the ‘market’ or agora. It was demarcated by place-marking stones that defined the limitation, circumscription or horizon of the agora, where democracy was practiced. Those stones (horos) became analogous with the “definition of definition” by metaphor; the horos of the agora became the boundary… Read more »

NixonScraypes
NixonScraypes
May 19, 2024 2:25 PM

The Learned Elders of Psyop have a word or two to say about “freedom”.

Bryan
Bryan
May 19, 2024 12:56 PM

The definition is a formula expressing the essence of something by means of its genus and its differentia (Topics A5, 101b 38) Asserting a proposition such as “Democracy is not the same as freedom” assumes rational-causal essentialism—specific and essential difference—which assumes determinative naming; which assumes essence. If you cannot see the circularity of assumptions is infinite and ungrounded, except by Aristotelian tautology, then the generative assumption is that Aristotle and his commentators knew what the fuck they were talking about. They did not. Don’t let them trick you into thinking otherwise. Can a name, any name, name the causal essence of a thing, the specifically “what it was to be” (to ti ên einai) or give a phrase or essential account (horos) of the necessary and sufficient causal conditions for a thing, anything, to be that particular kind of thing? Can we name the necessary behavioural nature of a thing,… Read more »

NickM
NickM
May 20, 2024 7:36 AM
Reply to  Bryan

< Can a name, any name [such as Democracy or Freedom] name the causal essence of a thing, the specifically “what it was to be” (το τι εν είναι) > Precisely. The headline suggests opposition between two empty names: Democracy & Freedom. The author is a North American Anglo hence has a hazy notion from school history that Democracy and Freedom are Good Things: but he does not describe the things themselves, as they exist in his country and in his own experience (on the one hand) or as he thinks they ought to be (on the other hand). For instance, Democracy is Freedom in one sense: freedom to vote. But there are another Four Freedoms (at least): Freedom of speech and expression Freedom of worship Freedom from want Freedom from fear How many freedoms does the author want his Democracy to have? And what sort of Democracy does he… Read more »

Bryan
Bryan
May 21, 2024 10:16 AM
Reply to  NickM

“Freedom of speech and expression” throws up a paradox. The liberal ideology of freedom and the analytic philosophy of language go hand-in-hand as the “anglo-american” or anglophone tradition. This absolutely involved the “necessary” connection between name and thing which eventually became name as “sense and reference”; the name or statement (logos) is truth-conditional on it picking out matters of fact or states of affairs in a semantically possible world or worlds… not this one. Called ‘rigid designation’; in some semantically possible world there could be a necessary and sufficient set of conditions that designated ‘democracy’; but ‘freedom’ as freedom of speech is always contingent on necessary naming or rigid designation; if and only if there is such a semantically possible world! The only really-real world is the earth now populated by global activity at the near monopoly level. ‘Democracy’ and ‘Freedom’ designate if and only if they refer to human… Read more »

Bryan
Bryan
May 21, 2024 11:37 AM
Reply to  Bryan

NickM

BTW: If you are really interested in language there is a cogent differentiation to be made between “linguistics” and “semiotics”. Broadly (non-categorically!) linguists talk of semantics, syntax, lexemes, morphotactics and so on as if they were floating around “out there” as mind-independent, body-independent and so on. Semiotics makes use of the “semiotic triangle” of symbolic name, imagination, object or objective which may or may not be in a real world.

The difference is subtle but semiotics necessarily signifies embodiment whilst linguistics does not. Any name-essence or autonomous syntax without embodiment is necessarily none-sense. No name means anything. Any combination of names, verbs and so on–as propositional statements–only mean the social activity they embody in enactment. We act out our ideas and ideologies which reveals what our performative possible worlds mean to us!

Edwige
Edwige
May 19, 2024 10:33 AM

https://dumptheguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/16/democracy-reset-westminster-power-party-labour “Our democracy” is total NLP – it isn’t “mine” and it isn’t “democracy”. “Desperately needs a reset” – subtle that. “We should think of this instead as a grand national reset” – just for those who missed it the first time. Kettle got his dictionary out for synonyms for “great” and found “grand”. “Recruiting more scientists and stopping the churn of jobs are said to be Starmer’s priorities” – sounds very like technocracy. “Starmer has already hinted that the devolution of power will be central to his “missions”. That’s a big idea for a still highly centralised country such as Britain” – I’d be all in favour of genuine localism but that’s not what this is going to be. The same people advocating it also immediately want local planning objections steamrollered. It’s about fragmentation and creating de facto city states. “Life-changes of this kind need to be prepared for,… Read more »

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
May 19, 2024 10:23 AM

The closest thing to democracy is Switzerland where referenda are regularly held to determine everyday stuff.

The ancient Greeks came to the conclusion that direct democracy wouldn’t work as it was too cumbersome so representative democracy was born.

The problem is, that’s great when your representatives are honourable and honest.

When they are a bunch of self-interested, lying bastards you have a problem

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:54 AM

Bullshit

They had a referenda on vaccines and vaccine pass and guess what happened.??

Swiss voters back law behind Covid vaccine certificate
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/why-the-swiss-have-voted-three-times-on-the-covid-19-law/48602254

TRT
TRT
May 19, 2024 4:31 PM
Reply to  davetherave

Votes like this one should never happen even in a direct democracy. Issues related to freedom/liberty should never be put to a vote.

Clutching at straws
Clutching at straws
May 19, 2024 11:15 PM
Reply to  davetherave

Therein lies the other problem of democracy. The voters.

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 20, 2024 2:43 AM

The biggest problem with Democracy IS the fokking gokking voters man.

mgeo
mgeo
May 20, 2024 5:33 AM

Swiss democracy confirmed the continuation of banking secrecy, regardless of requests from other governments investigating criminals.

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:05 AM

I called it yesterday in the comment section. I am not betting to feed the beast, you got to be slightly wet behind the ears to think TV sports is real.

The giant Fury vs small Usyk from Ukraine, the fight called ”the ring of fire”.
The small outsider from Ukraine wearing Russian regalia upon entrance and wearing his beloved Ukrainian flag boxing shorts with maria on the back the devoted Christian
shocked the world to beat undefeated giant Gypsy Fury in a huge upset win.

The only thing missing was a donate to Ukraine arms grift at the end.

What next??? Isrehel to win the golf.? World cup.? Tennis.?

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:06 AM
Reply to  davetherave

OMG shill Shapiro is Asking His Audience For Donations to the IDF
Can You Be Anymore More of a Shameless Grifting Unamerican Traitor
800 Billion is Not Enough? You Need to Shakedown Your Gullible Christian Audience Too

https://twitter.com/i/status/1711776096197480765

Rolling Rock
Rolling Rock
May 19, 2024 9:15 AM

To quote Keyser Soze from The Usual Suspects “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” I am not saying if the devil exisits or not but the quote is allegorical to many things. The controllers have managed to convince the population that democracy is the greatest thing when in reality it is a cover for underlying control of the many by the few through a complex set of circumstances. A web of deceit involving supranational organisations, central banks, corporations, NGOs, think tanks and powerful families. Democracy has been used as a rallying call to justify bombing countries, run by dictators who have outlived their use, back to the Stone Age to bring them democracy (TM). A population can be manipulated easily when they are told democracy is at stake. The hard of thinking are directed by a ‘free press’ to act accordingly by… Read more »

purgatorium
purgatorium
May 19, 2024 5:15 PM
Reply to  Rolling Rock

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he DID exist.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL4BT2CN/

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2024 7:26 AM

Culling going as planned:

“Heart patients forced to wait over a year for treatment in England

Waiting lists are at a record high, almost double since 2020, with heart disease being the largest cause of premature death in deprived areas”

From Observer/Graud/What’s the difference?

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 20, 2024 2:46 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Stop being a heart decease patient victim. Its really that simple.

red lester
red lester
May 20, 2024 4:18 PM
Reply to  Erik Nielsen

Learn to love tinned sardines. Try them on toast with butter and white pepper.

NickM
NickM
May 19, 2024 6:20 AM

< Democracy is Not the Same as Freedom >

And Freedom is not the same as Equality.

And Equality is not the same as Charity.

And Charity is not the same as Knowledge.

And Knowledge is not the same as Wisdom.

“And Life is not a Walk in the Park” — Pasternak, Dr.Zhivago.

Johnny
Johnny
May 19, 2024 4:43 AM

Pathetically, most Folks in the West can’t see that they are slaves to Mammon, money and manipulative men.

They can’t see that they have been trained, taught and tied to the tracks of rabid consumerism.

They can’t see that they are doped, distracted and dumbed down by devious dirt bags.

They can’t see that democracy only works for the demented and devious at the top of the dung heap.

They can’t see.
They can’t see.
They can’t see.

How do you unblind the wilfully blind?
Ignorance IS NOT an excuse.

Rolling Rock
Rolling Rock
May 19, 2024 3:13 PM
Reply to  Johnny

Money (or what we generally accept as money ie fiat currency) itself is not evil. It is the love of it and how one chooses to use it.

Money buys freedom. Freedom to quit the hamster wheel of debt servitude, by not needing to work all one’s life to pay down debt nor merely exist day to day.

As long as the current monetary and socioeconomic system exists, having enough money to free oneself as best as possible is not a bad idea.

Money is a tool, just like any other. Use it wisely.

Human values
Human values
May 19, 2024 11:06 PM
Reply to  Rolling Rock

Money is evil. It is a scam. It produces nothing but steals. Inequality is inherent, so there can never be equality, freedom and other values as long as money is. Most human history has been lived without money, in peace.

If money is a tool to make you free, you’ll do anything to get money, don’t you?

Can’t you see how people kill for money, lie for money, steal for money, make wars for money, even mass murder humanity for money?

How people waste their lives for money? How money has made humanity its slaves?

It’s freedom for those who have money. How about us others?

Rolling Rock
Rolling Rock
May 20, 2024 7:31 AM
Reply to  Human values

Money in some form or other has been around for most of what we know as human history. At first it involved bartering going back to 6000-7000 BC. Be it animals such as cattle, or seashells and beads which could not be easily copied (faked). Next came coin minting in the form of silver or gold dating back to around 600 BC in Ancient Greece. Coins lasted centuries until banknotes appeared. Even banknotes were (theoretically) backed by precious metals until the early 1970’s. Nixon officially closed the ‘gold window’ in 1971. Cheating of some form has always been around. Gold and silver coins from as far back as the Middle Ages were routinely ‘clipped’, where shavings were removed from the edges of the coins. It is the reason later coins had and still have milled edges. Previously, upto 17th Century, goldsmiths were the bankers of the day. They discovered they… Read more »

Human values
Human values
May 22, 2024 1:09 PM
Reply to  Rolling Rock

What you know as human history is just the history of kings and emperors, states and empires, owners and controllers of land and people. That is not the history of humanity. Human history is much more than just a couple of thousand years of darkness. You’re blaming humanity or humans for this evil system that’s been around for hundreds or thousands of years. Most people never had anything to do with this money system, protected by state and law. You must realize a state is not eternal, and neither is money. They have been created in a time and place (history), and they are destroying themselves because this evil system contains seeds for its destruction. ”It does not matter whether money exists or not.” Of course it matters, and it matters a lot. When you were born you had no money. Your mother who produced you probably wasn’t paid for… Read more »

Rolling Rock
Rolling Rock
May 22, 2024 2:48 PM
Reply to  Human values

First, I never said anything like the following that you mentioned “Why do you think you are entitled to have money, while I am not?” The only thing that anyone should be entitled to is the freedom to live their lives as they wish without harming others. It could also be said that everyone should have the right to clean water, air, some land and a roof over their heads.The rest is upto them, in order to create a good life for themselves. Clearly, you hate money and say you have none. Therefore, what solution do you offer for a new way of living? I am not glued to any system if there is a better one. It is simply the system we currently have and therefore I, like most people, will operate within it. Do you think people who work hard should be able to store the value of… Read more »

Human values
Human values
May 23, 2024 1:25 AM
Reply to  Rolling Rock

Greed is a mortal sin which will be destroyed by God. How did humanity manage to live most of its life without greed, without money, without private property and without the state? Then came the greedy man and said ”this land is my property, and if anyone else wishes to use it in any way, they must pay me.” And the greedy man made papers to show the land belonged to him, he made borders, he made resources found in his land ”money”, and he forced with violence others to obey him, to work for him or to pay him. But all land property is stolen property. It has been stolen from everyone of us. It doesn’t even make any sense that some dude owns land. What kind of insanity is this idea that the planet Earth can be owned by some dudes in America? They even privatized the Moon… Read more »

Howard
Howard
May 20, 2024 3:51 PM
Reply to  Human values

Thank you for this breath of fresh air amidst all the money changing notions. Money was created, and continues to exist, for one and only one purpose: accumulation. If indeed, as most people insist, money is merely a convenient medium of exchange, then why would, could or should there be more in circulation than just enough to effect such exchanges? Even the concept of “saving for a rainy day” blows the money as an exchange medium right out of the water. Saving for that “rainy day” is the sleight of hand which allows accumulation to slip in unnoticed. Money has come to be more important than anything else in human existence. Food, water, clothing and shelter take a back seat to it – because without money these things cannot be had. Even going “back to nature” and building one’s own home and making one’s own clothes and growing one’s own… Read more »

Big Al
Big Al
May 19, 2024 4:26 AM

The problem is there is no perfect system. Any system we choose would have to have built in basic liberties, i.e., individual, unalienable rights, and a system to ensure those basic liberties are adhered to. The U.S. Constitution was supposed to cover the bases but look at it now. It might not be majority or mob rule, but it damn sure is minority or fascist tyrannical rule. The minority rule the vast majority. So instead of building in liberties to a system where the people have the power, we built in liberties to a system where the rich have the power, who continuously and insidiously take those liberties away. I’d rather take my chances on the people. Either way, the author is right, the battle is for freedom, not democracy. It’s like the Pink Floyd song, “if you don’t have your freedom, you can’t have any democracy. How can you… Read more »

Rob
Rob
May 19, 2024 2:03 AM

Ayn Rand had the right idea but didn’t account for that groups of people called corporations claim individual rights too. Same for religions and other hive minds…. “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” -Frank Zappa “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” ~ Emma Goldman The Constitution was so lacking that they had to AMEND it with the bill of rights, because people were protesting the lack of rights in the Constitution! https://www.michaeltsarion.com/constitution-con.html “We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is.” – Judge Charles Evans… Read more »

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:07 AM
Reply to  Rob

Same michael tsarion that sold the Trump is going to save us grift.

Hamish Dawson
Hamish Dawson
May 20, 2024 8:47 AM
Reply to  davetherave

What has that got to do with his article?

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
May 19, 2024 1:03 AM

You’re right Todd, that we need immutable rights, a constitution, which enshrines specific rights for all, and that democracy – as is evident in all countries that claim to operate by it – is not what it is sold to us as.

Alexander of Realeyesation has an interesting video explanation of democracy vs freedom. As I have no account with Realeyesation, this is his Bitchute link:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CmZZ2JnIj1IO/

Hitler, btw, got in with a 31.1% vote, as do most political leaders even today – their percentage vote ranges between 25 – 30% percent and many are forced to form coalitions, otherwise they would never form government. I’m wondering what the use of voting and “democracy” is even. Should we perhaps just have local governments, fully accountable to the local people?

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
May 19, 2024 6:38 AM
Reply to  Veri Tas

You last sentence says that you don’t want nationwide railway arteries, interstate highways, air traffic control, laws for conduct on the oceans etc etc.

Village democracies only work small scale – sooner or later, the interests of individual villages come into collision and then you need a way to resolve such matters.

Eleanor
Eleanor
May 19, 2024 11:47 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Probably the first requisite is honorable behaviour…. then could local governments not cooperate with each other?

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
May 19, 2024 10:25 PM
Reply to  Eleanor

Absolutely, and that’s what I meant – cooperation.
Local government would be so much more under OUR control.

Ernie
Ernie
May 18, 2024 11:21 PM

I have an extremely sad story to tell you at this point: I recently met a British girl in a bar who asked me if I was a movie star? I fought hard not to lie and replied that I was an educated pig farmer but that my life was like a movie. She wasn’t impressed, it was beneath her dignity to raise pigs, wouldn’t even allow me to dance to the latest Chicago rap “music”, but from then on just turned her ice-cold shoulder to me. Later I saw her leaving the bar with a movie star: it was a rising TV hero of Nigerian-Togo-Ugandan descent. I couldn’t get over it at all and spent the whole night crying into my fluffy Garfield pillow. I woke up in the morning with her perfume still in my clothes. “You see,” I said to myself, “the world is evil, bad and… Read more »

Johnny
Johnny
May 19, 2024 6:14 AM
Reply to  Ernie

You wanna do the movie star strut?
1. Leave your sunglasses on.
2. Affect an air of disdain for the plebs.
3. Wear fashionably shabby designer clothes.
4. Come with an entourage.
5. Never, ever use the public toilet.
6. Snigger frequently and laugh loudly at stupid jokes.
7. Check your Social Media pages every 3-5 minutes.
8. Stare into the middle distance every now and then.
9. Grunt at your bodyguards.
10. Don’t get pissed.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
May 19, 2024 6:40 AM
Reply to  Ernie

Alternatively, you could feel sorry for the girl that her sad existence can only be made worthwhile by tagging on to someone with a bit of publicity??

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:18 AM
Reply to  Ernie

Very funny.

Voltaria Voltaire
Voltaria Voltaire
May 19, 2024 7:46 PM
Reply to  Ernie

Where did you get the fluffy Garfield pillow?

Erik Nielsen
Erik Nielsen
May 20, 2024 2:56 AM
Reply to  Ernie

Maybe an educated pig farmer and a British girl in a bar isnt the most obvious couple to put together. Try the county village dance hall Saturday night or a burger center, and good luck. Some day SHE will turn up. https://discoverynn.ru/upload/resize_cache/webp/dev2fun_opengraph/a5c/v7hisfxvgo15utspkuxzy63jrxhw9eaw.webp

Edwige
Edwige
May 18, 2024 10:34 PM

The fundamental trick was persuading people that representation equals democracy – everything else followed from that foundational error.

Researcher
Researcher
May 19, 2024 1:07 AM
Reply to  Edwige

It’s worse than that. It’s persuading the brain dead masses that anyone, either a group or individual has any rights or authority over another.

In the case of governments they transitioned straight from unlawful monarchies/dictatorships to unlawful constitutions, with a pack of court jesters at the helm, play acting as “leaders” to protect Rome’s emissaries (monarchies/dictatorships) from outright rebellion by the slave class.

davetherave
davetherave
May 19, 2024 10:48 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Democascam also has religion related to it. It wouldn’t be able to work without, the church of cardinal chooses the pope. The Jesuits the army of the church even at a local level the church Committee will vote in new people, the tax exempt scams and the shake down of the old to scare them that if they dont do good they will end up in hell so give the church your house or belongings. FFS they even put posters up saying the church needs a 1000$ to run a day. Give give give just like the politicians take take take. Invading other undemocratic counties taking them of there natural diet and water source, calling spring water untreated water then calling clean water… fluoride poison crap. saying unvaccinated 3rd world people are not privy to westerners medical care, o they jab them up. Always there will have the church involved… Read more »

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
May 19, 2024 6:41 AM
Reply to  Edwige

The fundamental question is whether internet technology now renders it possible for direct democracy to take place far, far more regularly?

purgatorium
purgatorium
May 19, 2024 5:19 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Internet technology came from the US military

Captain Birdheart
Captain Birdheart
May 18, 2024 10:17 PM

Peart and Rand.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
May 18, 2024 9:35 PM

The will of the majority has to respect the rights of minorities. That’s why you have a Constitution and a legal framework to enforce it. In theory this should be perfect but in practice there are all sorts of things that could go wrong, mainly because no justice system is truly impartial — the system can and will be gamed and captured, there’s too much of an incentive not to. The problem we have today is that ‘democracy’ is just a shorthand for ‘us’. The other lot, ‘them’, can’t be democratic, their elections much always be corrupt so that their autocracies can be maintained. This rather blatant “Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad” mindset shouldn’t be credible but for some reason it is. We’re told repeatedly from every media outlet the simple truth that “Us equals democracy equals good” and “They are bad because they’re not democratic” that we’re incapable… Read more »

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
May 19, 2024 6:45 AM
Reply to  Martin Usher

Anyone looking from the outside into the USA can see that the USA is not democracy and that every single presentation of US society glorifies the ‘in crowd’ that pay zero regard to the right of who they consider to be the ‘nerds’, the ‘freaks’, the ‘losers’ etc etc. There’s no film of the football heroes being sent to prison for making computer geeks want to kill themselves, is there? There’s no example of the bitchy female teen who thinks she’s god’s gift to blowjobs ending up in hospital because her contempt for some other girls saw her get fingers pushed into her eyes, is there? Oh no, those horrible disgusting people have to be forgiven, because they are SO superior that their despicable nastiness must just be forgotten about. Make some movies where the nasty in crowd truly get what’s coming to them. Then talk about your upholding minority… Read more »