Are the Dead Nostalgic?
Edward Curtin
I was asking this question recently when the nightmare of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians greatly disturbed my reflections and took me in another writerly direction.
Now I wish to return to this matter that seems perpetually pertinent, a pertinence, of course, not unconnected to the dead in Gaza, Ukraine, and everywhere else. There are so many ways of getting dead – and living – that complicate my question.
I am certain of this, however, that there is much to be said for talking to the dead, even asking them if they are nostalgic.
I have just awakened from a night of dreams in which I was cavorting with a bunch of the dead and they told me many things, one of which was to pursue my question into my daydreams, which this essay may be called, in the etymological sense of that word – to essay, that is, to try, to experiment without knowing where one is going.
Surely one does not want to forget that life is an experiment into the unknown, as is its companion – death. And that all travel ends in the enigma of “arrival.”
Michel de Montaigne spoke for me when he said:
“I am by nature not melancholy, but dreamy. Since my earliest days, there is nothing with which I have occupied my mind more than with images of death. Even in the most licentious season of my life, amid ladies and games…”
So too for me, no matter how fiercely in my youth I competed on the basketball court to win accolades and the admiration of the ladies, I always felt I was performing for a deeper reason that I couldn’t articulate at the time but which I vaguely sensed.
I got a hint of it once, when after a game in which we won against our arch-rival and I played very well, a visitor to the locker room congratulated me by saying, “Great game,” and I responded with false modesty, saying “It was okay,” knowing that I did play very well but was unable to accept the compliment.
I have never forgotten that incident that suggests to me that there was something deeper than playing well and just winning a game that I was after, and that my stupid response to the compliment revealed – or did it conceal? – this from me.
So I wonder: Why am I writing this essay? To win your applause? Something more? I know I am writing it for myself, but I could keep it private.
Perhaps you will agree that the question about the dead’s nostalgia is a touchy philosophical question that might have no definitive answer. Even if we could, in modern data-driven fashion, construct a sociological survey, how would we choose a “representative” sample of the dead? Where would we find them – up, down, way out there, next to us? The thought of it seems flippant in an impossible way, which it is, but its flippancy holds a secret message.
So I asked the dead who would speak to me and got a few mixed, muffled replies. You can understand their reluctance to say anything.
If I heard correctly, one of them said, “You should ask the living.” Another, who seemed offended that I considered him dead, said, “Why are you asking me?” Most didn’t answer, which had me wondering why. Were they disgusted with us?
But then I wondered: Who are the dead? That too is a touchy question.
I have always heard that nostalgia was not good for you since it kept you rooted in the past; that this ache for home (Greek, algos, pain + nostos, homecoming) – the good old days that may or may not have existed but you miss them nevertheless – prevented you from living Zen-like in the present or looking forward to the future.
Yet the English writer and art-critic John Berger suggested otherwise when he wrote that, paradoxical as it seems, there is also a nostalgia for the future that is hopelessly desired, not hopelessly lost.
A journey, propelled by an “indefinable ache,” to an imagined future created out of recollected moments of love and beauty. While often found in the work of artists of all types, it is available to everyone open to revelations from out of the blue. But one must imagine, as John Lennon sang.
So I wondered if nostalgia could be a form of utopian hope at a time when humanistic utopian thinking is at a nadir, overwhelmed by constant bad news, subtle propaganda wherein contradictions and truths coexist in chaotic indifference, and the machine dreams of people like Elon Musk and the digital devils like those at the World Economic Forum and in Silicon Valley.
The denigration of nostalgia assumed you were alive. I was wondering about the dead. What did they think? Did they wish they were alive? Was being alive the good old days for them, or did they feel they were finally home and that life had been a dream?
Or did the dead have no future, no nothing, or perhaps some afterglow of sorts, an everlasting rest in peace, whatever that may mean, a phrase that always seemed to me a bad knock on life. Who wants to sleep forever as cemeteries (Greek koimeterion, sleeping place, dormitory) remind us by their eerie silence?
If sleep is peace, why bother to wake up in the morning?
But what about the other dead, the living-dead? Had they killed all livingness in themselves in order to avoid another death? To paraphrase TS Eliot – Were we led all this way for death or birth? Yes, the enigma of arrival.
I guess I was thinking that if I could get in touch with the dead and get them talking, they might also tell me what it was like to be dead. Although I am no statistical whiz, I figured there were a lot more of them than the living, and the odds were pretty good that someone there would spill the beans.
I thought of this recently when watching the new film about Bob Dylan’s early years, A Complete Unknown, when his film girlfriend, Sylvie Russo, based on the real Suze Rotolo, gets angry at him for concealing his true past and identity, and he replies, “People make up their past, Silly, they make up what they want; [they] forget the rest.”
This has a ring of truth to it, whether it’s from memory lapses or some sense of wanting to fictionalize their pasts for reasons known only to them. Our memories and forgetteries are interesting creative faculties.
But as I said, I was interested in the dead. Did they also do that? Were they nostalgic in the looking-back sense?
Yet their silence was deafening. I grew very frustrated. I felt my proclivity for abstruse questions might be leading me astray, away from my own nostalgia, an easier question to answer.
This thought came to me when I just heard the bell ring on my Hermes manual typewriter, and I returned the carriage to type these words.
Ah, the bells, the calling of the bells, their tinkling and tolling, the bells for meals at the Edgewater Farm of my youth, the bells of St. Brendan’s grammar school calling us to freeze our positions as we played in the street during lunch break, my tinkling of the bells in the sacred hush as an altar boy, the church bells still ringing at St. Peter’s church in town, Bob Dylan’s song Ring Them Bells, Edgar Allen Poe’s The Bells and Phil Ochs’ version in song, Leonard Cohen’s vesper bells in When Night Comes On, ringing for me, calling me somewhere, resonating “to the tintinnabulation that so musically wells” up thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears or laughter.
I hear the bells, but I still do not know if the dead are nostalgic. It seems like the wrong question. For this daydream in words has brought me to that enigmatic place of arrival where I am nostalgic for my dear departed dead loved ones. They still talk to me, but don’t answer obnoxious questions.
As for the past, I can echo the concluding words of Don DeLillo’s alter-ego, Nick Shay, in his great novel Underworld:
I long for the days of disorder. I want them back, the days when I was alive on the earth, rippling in the quick of my skin, heedless and real. I was dumb-muscled and angry and real. This is what I long for, the breach of peace, the days of disarray when I walked real streets and did things slap-bang and felt angry and ready all the time, a danger to others and a distant mystery to myself.
As for the living, John Donne summoned it up:
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
Edward Curtin is an independent writer whose work has appeared widely over many years. His website is edwardcurtin.com and his new book is Seeking Truth in a Country of Lies.
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Admin:
Please release my reply post to Howard, timed at 7.36pm today, near the end of this batch of comments under this article.
Thank you.
Admin:
Please can you release from ‘pending’ my reply to Howard, timed at 7.36pm, today, 24 Feb., further down this screen (quite near the end of the comments).
Thank you.
I liked the essay.
Just, before that, to say that I do not agree with Mr. Curtin about exactly what is happening in Gaza (and more broadly, in the region there) and for what purpose. I have another assumption and point of view (but not the Zionist point of view at all, but something else, third).
As an extremely diligent observer of pre-plandemic, plandemic, and post-plandemic (special operational) Russia, I even more strongly disagree with Curtin about what is happening in Ukraine, and in Russia, and for what purpose, (but I do not mean at all that I agree with the pov of the “collective West”). I am painfully aware of both what is moving there and the specific stakeholders who are moving it, I have followed the path to it and I am following the current developments. (In the same way that other people have done the same to their habitats or other parts of the world that they keep a close eye on.)
Which brings me to this excellent paragraph of the essay:
“So I wondered if nostalgia could be a form of utopian hope at a time when humanistic utopian thinking is at a nadir, overwhelmed by constant bad news, subtle propaganda wherein contradictions and truths coexist in chaotic indifference, and the machine dreams of people like Elon Musk and the digital devils like those at the World Economic Forum and in Silicon Valley.”
Good noticed. It is there that “the dog is hidden”, which is, from my point of view, the main (or one of the most basic) for which the spectacular multidimensional spectacle in which we have been placed in recent years is played out (at least then they pressed the accelerator pedal more).
Nostalgia for the world that is already obviously disappearing before our eyes, which gives rise in one part of the people a strong utopian hope for the preservation of this world, of the traditional and familiar normality.
But, with a very interesting and decisive clarification: while the liberal-techno-optimists (who are absorbed in mainstream narratives broadcasted by the so-called “left” mainstream, known as servants of the “left” elite) dream of a left-wing utopia with the techno-devils of the WEF and Silicon Valley, the majority, or even the vast majority of those who dream of preserving the normal and traditional world, for several years have turned their utopian dreams into very realistic hopes, personified by the constant and all-consuming manifestation of anti-woke and anti-leftist struggle of Elon Musk to preserve normality.
Enter the rescue softening plan of the silicone wef devil with a human, conservative face. Enter Left-Contra.
The man moves:
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1519735033950470144
28.04.2022
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRcu9TeXEAMjvTM?format=jpg
Hello rightists, normal people, desperate from the irreversible walke-left move towards a left-liberal transgender dystopia with diabolical diversity and waves of illegals, all is not lost. After a long process of awareness, I received catharsis and I am here to fight with you, we can save traditionalism and normality.
You see, one of Elon’s sons became a victim of the Woke campaign, you know about the case, now he is called yourself her, Evelyn or another female name, I don’t remember. Deceived by left-handed scumbags to start taking blockers, etc. – a hard story. This is serious, and real. So Elon’s motive in his campaign against trans-woke has very deep roots, emotional, spiritual – this is his son, so it certainly shook him.
And he changed.
Elon’s stated catharsis, Twitter’s stunning buying and flipping for the benefit of people (people!), occurs as part of a series of Plandemics (during which we were told, including for the benefits of future biodigital convergence)-PlanWar, and in the midst of four years of intensified left-wing madness and growing despair on the right that this will continue without stopping, two years of Biden filled with fierce attacks on Trump.
You can’t invent and somehow act out this, or even just influence it in some way. The tragic turn of a whole human life. If someone suggested some kind of fraud here, or a real horror theater with a real victim, it would scandalize me. People for whom separate life is nothing, and who organized something like mass vaccination, and who are planning some cruel dystopia for all people, could not do it.
Speaking of the dead:
‘My son is dead, killed by the woke virus’: Elon Musk opens up about son’s gender transition
2024-07-23
In a heartfelt interview, Elon Musk reveals his struggles with his son Vivian’s transition and expresses regret over consenting to puberty blockers during the early COVID-19 pandemic.
..
“I lost my son, essentially. They call it deadnaming for a reason. My son Xavier is dead, killed by the woke mind virus.”
..
” Musk vowed to combat what he termed the “woke mind virus” that he believes is responsible for these situations.”
You know, always in great tragedies, the catharsis of the protagonist is associated with the death of a person close to his heart. And from there the Hero is born. Devastated, but not dead, but refracted at the right angle, reborn for a fearless battle with Evil. “To destroy is to build,” as the mystics say.
His son’s “death” (as he calls it) transformed Elon, turning him into the warrior-leader that the resistance to evil needed to revive its hopes for a turnaround, and not just for the United States, but also for fate, for the life of the world (we know that these left-wing and right-wing tendencies are globally significant, as well as the US powers).
You can’t make it up.
Everything is possible to enter if it is offered in the appropriate form, image, context for the person or group of people in order to be appropriate. In some activities, it is called a “humidifier”.
I really like how Russian important people explain (= disperse the narrative about managing people’s perceptions; “put the reins”) this fundamental problem with determining the image of the future; simpler and more collected, not so blatant, somehow human, which is sometimes absent in media appearances in the West (I fully understand why many otherwise reasonable people have become fascinated by Putin to the point of oblivion or a reversed vision of his plandemic and digitalization crimes, for example).
By saying loudly in public things previously unsayable, President
Trump has my wondering if there’s a Conspiracy involved – something
like the 5D chess many claim…
After all, They wanted Trump to win*, why else did They choose to run
Kamala against him. They can be quite sinister…
** A couple of reports claim that, immediately after his 2020 election
‘defeat’, Trump & Co began work on all the ‘initiates’ he’s now taking…
They must have been certain back then that Trump would win in 2024…
The association of electricity producers decides to raise prices by 10%. That is why they announced a request to raise prices by 25 or 30%. The consumer protection association jumps and says that there is no reason for this increase. Part of the press too. The government’s energy regulatory commission also raised its voice, saying no more than a 5% increase was needed. Negotiations begin, “this is a complex process”.. Finally, an agreement is reached for a 10% increase. The regulatory commission has protected the interests of the people; It’s not much and people are dissatisfied, but it’s still something, far better than nothing, not those creepy, initially requested 30%..
All of them have not agreed in advance with each other, but are directly part of a team “behind the scenes” (except for some part of the smaller, marginal press, who are generally honest, but not observant enough; some see more than others and note it, but they are too small, somewhere in the corner and do not matter much).
Does this happen in your country? In my country, yes.
____
…The “far left”-wef-un-etc. announces that it wants to implement and is already starting to implement part of its agenda with trans-digitalID-CBDC-diversity-green-totalitarian-immigrants-vaccine mandates-genetic modifications-cancel culture-brainchips-energy behavior with climate credits-(.. fill, fill..) …..
for example
Well, thats the idea of democracy. The majority of the voters were letting Trump win because they were in a conspiracy together and made a 5D chess surprise move.
The sneaky little American middle class voter………….LOL.
the Greeks had the idea of Hades, the shadow world of the dead, the Elysian Fields visited by the hero of the Æneid, dominated by the forces of what the Eastern thinkers called Yin, darkness, the clammy grip of the past, in which nostalgia takes root
that is a sort of metaphor for one part of our existence here on earth, along with the other, bright, future-oriented part, the Yang of those ancient Chinese philosophers, full of vital energy
true death is nonexistence, it has no attributes that we can know or name here, but metaphorically, “death” has become a shorthand for that passive, conservative force that is neither good nor bad, but rather a necessary component of a fundamental balance
Nice
Israeli genocide of Palestinians?
May God forgive you.
‘An’ here i sit so patiently
waiting to find out what price
you have to pay to get out of
going through these things twice.’
(1960’s folksinger) …
Off topic though it does have a nostalgic air:
In this world of accelerating disinfo, it’s encouraging to read …. “Nautilus” which “is a different kind of science magazine. Our stories take you into the depths of science and spotlight its ripples in our lives and cultures.”
The “depths” of science? Well certainly the depths of something. Take this promising title:
Noting how, since covid, “few scientific questions have received as much public attention as the origin of the deadly virus: people or nature”, our bold investigators muse on how “(i)t is perhaps strange, then, that little attention is paid to the role people have played in another potential pandemic virus: H5N1 avian influenza, a creation of modern poultry production systems”.
After “a viral blaze in poultry” (Oh that’s good!), we get a bit about a future “when H5N1 spills into humans, which is happening with disturbing frequency”.
This leads to the customary ocean of polysyllabic scientifico wackadoodle. Just for a taster, here’s a footnote:
But back to the main article and some seriously scary asides:
We then get the word “surged” and “We are talking at least 7 million” human deaths”!
Who says this? Precisely! It’s the WHO!
But don’t get too dismissive! This new franchise has one spooky advantage over that old covid thing:
Bird! See? This latest death avatar of doom and destruction doesn’t need to wait for puny humans to board a flight. The grim reaper takes flight over the ocean via these free feathered fiends!
Anyway, that’s enough of this bollocks. You’ve heard of flogging a dead horse. This is flogging a mythical beast that never lived in the first place. No-one ever cared about “bird flu”. And the attempt to generate interest through the old “Was it natural or did we create it” lark is only a desperate way of salvaging something or other from this … umm, turkey!
Forced-fee propagandist Böhmermann is allowed to defame the AfD and lecture America about “democracy” for the Jew York Times in his typical embarrassingly grotesque manner. As a cardinal witness, he quotes his grandfather in a Wehrmacht uniform, who is said to have been a “member of the Waffen SS”.
We remember:
Perhaps his family does indeed have “intergenerational problem heritage”: his great-granduncle Johann Heinrich Böhmermann is said to have been the captain of a ship called the “Nachtigal”, which was the transport vehicle for a large-scale diamond robbery in West Africa. From 2013 (switch to “HD ready” format in the video settings):
https://www.butenunbinnen.de/videos/operation-elefant-bremen-kolonial-denkmal-boehmermann-100.html
For mysterious reasons, he is said to have drowned himself in the Bremen harbor basin with a backpack full of bricks. To this day, however, there is said to be no trace of the alleged “diamond haul of several cubic meters”, and this is also the reason why the completely impoverished and over-indebted multicultural city of Bremen is still a city in its own right.
https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Antikolonialdenkmal
https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Nachtigal_(Schiff%2C_1885)
The traditionally left-wing (social democratic) stronghold of Bremen is an extremely ugly city full of post-war buildings, the old city having been largely destroyed by allied “liberation bombs”. It’s a kind of German Mini-Detroit: crime, corruption, unemployment, political sloppiness and complete inaction are the order of the day, the “Senate” is a sheer joke! As a “logical” result, it is the hotbed of mafia-like migrant clans that have a firm grip on the city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miri-Clan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_in_Rage
Admin.:
I’d much appreciate it if you released from ‘pending’ my post in reply to “I left the left”, timed at 3.27pm today.
Thank you.
I was hoping Mr. Curtin would make reference to Thornton Wilder’s great play “Our Town.” Besides being one of the greatest American dramas, it expresses what could be called the quintessential artistic view of the dead toward the living. The dire warning to Emily not to go among the living, and her stubborn ignoring of that warning – her nostalgic urge to return to the world of the living – created a sorrow in her which convinced her she now belonged only with the dead.
My personal view of the whole process of dying was best expressed by the tragi-comic figure Ubu Roi in Alfred Jarry’s 1896 play of the same name: “If I was born, why was it not forever?”
In a perverse sense, you might say Emily was the philosophical offspring of Ubu Roi.
Howard, you beat me to it! My thoughts exactly about Wilder’s “Our Town”, my favorite play, and one I perfomed in twice as Emily.
Yes, that third act in the cemetary. The heartbreak of Emily when she returns from the living. The spiritual awakening she has while pleading with her mother to “really look at me”.
I think one of the most profound moments in American Playwriting, and so relevent to Mr. Curtin’s piece, is when Emily takes her seat beside Mother Gibbs upon her return to the dead and says of the living –
“They just don’t understand, do they Mother Gibbs?”
“No, Emily, they don’t”.
Wilder references death in many of his writings.
His play “Skin of Our Teeth” is as relevent today as it was when it was written.
I love his work.
They just did a revival on Broadway of “Our Town”. They cut it down to less than 2 hours. And made other changes. I had no interest. It got great reviews but I hold my memories too dear.
I wonder if the dead are as ignorant as they were when they were alive. I always thought that the truth was revealed when one died and looked forward to that aspect of it. I’m sure some things about myself will be unpleasant but there’s so much falseness in the (in)version of reality we’re given that I still want the real picture. Yes, I still believe it but those who don’t want to know, they won’t. As for Dylan’s reply- believe that and you’ll believe any glib evasion, ya dumb chick.
Admin:
Please can you take out of ‘pending’ my post (timed at 3.27pm today, 23 Feb.) in reply to ‘I left the left’.
Many thanks.
Gave me a strong flashback to a Twelve Monkeys scene…
https://youtu.be/oI-G7y1Ra7o?feature=shared
The living know they will die, the Dead know nothing
The WRONGLY-termed ‘dead’ DO NOT ‘know nothing’. Discover the actual nature of the wholly illusory event that’s wrongly termed ‘death’.
See (amongst tens of thousands of others on the same truth) “Your Eternal Self: Science discovers the Afterlife”, by R Craig Hogan.
And “Glimpses of Eternity”, by Dr Raymond Moody (an American psychiatrist; one of many psychiatrists who are fully aware that ‘death’ is NOT the end of our existence).
I repeat, the WRONGLY-termed ‘dead’ do NOT ‘know nothing’. We all survive (in our eternal, immortal soul/spirit body form) that wholly illusory event. There are a multitude of proofs that this is so. Countless millions of intelligent, informed people around the world (including many spiritually-aware scientists, doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, etc etc) know this to be true. Tens of thousands (and probably hundreds of thousands, if one factors in that there will be many books on this vital subject published in the many other languages of the world) of high-quality, scholarly books have been written and published on this biggest, greatest truth of existence; and a large percentage of those huge numbers of books have been written BY the many spiritually-aware scientists, doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, etc etc around the world.
The vast majority of the countless millions of spiritually-enlightened people around the world possess their own personal proofs that their loved-ones have indeed survived (in their immortal spirit body form) the death of their physical body ‘coat’. I have literally hundreds of personal proofs of that ultimate truth.
I’ve provided a representative booklist on this subject a number of times over the last few years, here on Off-G. And yet STILL there are many people who simply close their eyes and refuse to acquire this ultimate truth of existence.
John Lennon: “Imagine there is no heaven”……………………..LOL.
I regret to say there is a reason why you guys and girls die, although we humans were designed and build to live at least much much longer than we do today………….LOL.
And you dont understand it and will never understand it. So innocents as you.
“I felt I was performing for a deeper reason that I couldn’t articulate at the time”, but then I realized I was performing for myself.
Ohh dear ohh dear, after building up all the evidences and cross checking with International famous and award winning Authors and Presidents, you destroy it all in one sentence Mr. Curtin.
The self important self righteous self masturbating Western Liberal ego tripper did it for himself………………… 😅 .
No Mr. Curtin, you did it and do it by instinct for love! First and second Commandment and Jesus Christ’s answer to the question on which of the Commandments are the most important.
The two Love Commandments!
I love my Father in Heaven so much, so I do everything to develop my talents into something close to the divine, and I give this talent of mine for (almost) free to my neighbours, because I love my neighbours as much as myself!
Check it out with Einstein’s last letter to his daughter, as you probably do not recognize anything from the Bible. Cheers.
I felt initially that this piece might be taking doomerism in new directions. On second, thoughts, it may be a well-written exercise in aimlessness. Inspiring and hopeful, certainly not.
the dead ?!
only bodies die.
the soul is either reincarnated/preparing for it, or saying, never again!
I’m in the “never again” camp. David Icke is right: it’s a trap. We live. We die. They guilt us with a “life review” and tell us we ought to go back to Life and do better. Then they mind wipe us so we forget what we came to do. We live an imperfect life, then we die. Rinse, repeat. No way I’m coming back to this beautiful hell hole again.
i’m not planning too either. i’m clearing/healing my ”karma” now. who’s they though? we set this up ourselves.
The Watchers want us to believe we set this up ourselves. I think it’s a collaboration between overseers and souls that get duped into incarnating into a rigged game they can never win. Stop believing in karma. Love and do good because it feels good and leaves the world better than you found it. But don’t let them guilt you into believing that human error requires another lifetime.
i don’t really subscribe to watchers, and such. i myself am a student/teacher of ACIM.
which means 100 % re4sponsibility for my life. rather than delegating to any kind of ” they”.
Even ACIM was dictated by someone with a higher pay grade than you or me.
yes jesus, the first of us to reach christhood. exactly the same as we are, but a step ahead, tryin to teach us how to be christ, aka god on earth, so we can return to even, and reunite with god.
jc doesn’t control us, nor does father god, or the divine mother.holy spirit.
we’re all one.
that’s completely different from ”they/them” controlling us.
we do have the ego,
to be let go of.
“Your Eternal Self: Science discovers the Afterlife”, by R Craig Hogan (is one of many tens of thousands of high-quality, scholarly books on this biggest, greatest truth of existence. A large percentage of which have been written by the many spiritually-aware scientists, doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, etc etc, around the world, who have themselves discovered the multi-faced evidences which prove [and I am not using the word ‘prove’ lightly or wrongly] that we do all survive [in our eternal, immortal soul/spirit body form] the death of our physical body ‘coat’).
And also see my post in reply to Johnny’s comment, a little way down the screen from here.
Under consumer capitalism, nostalgia would be under constant threat since the most basic impulse would be to constantly update, transform, innovate etc. all for the purpose of shovelling out the ever new – or apparently new – in order to rake in the dosh. The familiar situation would be to be encouraged to rush out and buy the latest “Big Thing” only to bin it tomorrow when it is replaced by the next “Big Thing”. The cycles of built-in obsolescence getting shorter and shorter until the latest “Big Thing” is obsolete almost before you buy it.
But then nostalgia itself may become profitable. I have noted that music magazines seem to be gravitating more and more towards the period roughly from the 60s to the 80s. What does this signify? That music no longer holds the special place with the young that it once did? Possibly. The young now have more options: smart phones, computer games, DVDs, downloads etc. Perhaps music itself is becoming less of a fixture in terms that would guarantee a return? And it’s the older generation – like myself – that are being appealed to.
But how many Dylan magazine guides do you need? I could probably write ne myself now. But it’s dismaying to see your earlier “outsider” heroes become “pillars of the community”, as it were. I really don’t feel I’m in a hurry to see this “complete unknown” thing.
Similarly, back in the 70s, there was (dare I say it?) a certain “magic” in Tolkien because, although the JRR juggernaut was gathering steam (probably thanks to the hippies), he still wasn’t THAT well known. Now of course, he’s everywhere.
I recall Dylan:
Or, as the old aphorism puts it: If you want to defeat your enemy, sing his praises.
The sixties to the eighties George, before the $uiturd$ took full control of that CREATIVITY and turned it into the business of greed, glamour and glitz, minus substance.
Nope, the $-suiturd$ were there, Johnny, they were just harder to see. My friends who ‘made it’ in the 70’s were all debt slaves to prove the point. You went on tour, and thinking ‘Wow, this is terrific’, and then they sent you the bills.
Good hidden point digged out from the dark. It is true.
Behind all our true originality and creativity, we were deeply enslaved in debt to the financiers.
I have found huge creativity and talent in the music scene following the rise of the internet and independent labels. There is now a massive availability of artists with great ‘substance’ precisely because our tastes are not manufactured and dictated to us by big business and its mass media control. For this music fan, active exploration brings richer rewards than the passive consumption of dated products.
Show us some.
Any links lefty?
You know how the system today is always deciding what the public should think, and tricks us into thinking that by telling us “that’s what most other people think.” (Via polls, fake twitter accounts, etc.)
Isn’t that exactly how the music charts work? Even in the 60s and earlier?
So much of what I thought was innocent fun has turned out to be nasty, manipulative exploitation.
If it’s any consolation Ed, as far as I know, being dead is the same state we were in before we were conceived.
That didn’t hurt did it?
I mention further down this post re. “the state we were in before we were conceived”.
There are many tens of thousands of high-quality, scholarly books which provide PROOF that we all survive (in our eternal, immortal soul/spirit body form) the death of our physical body ‘coat’. I’ve made this 100% factual statement many times over the last few years, here on Off-G…
It is a proven fact that consciousness survives the death of the physical body; for it, consciousness, is completely separate from the physical brain. It (the mind/consciousness) operates/manifests through the brain, yes, but it is NOT created by the physical brain.
I’ve several times on this site provided a representative booklist re. this biggest, greatest of all truths. I’ve stated that a large percentage of the tens (maybe hundreds of thousands) of books published on this vital topic have been written BY the many spiritually-aware scientists, doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, etc etc around the world. Ie, they who have themselves discovered the incontrovertible evidences which PROVE that the actual nature of ‘death’ is so, so different to what it merely appears to be. We live in a multi-dimensional cosmos. There is far, far more to what exists than ‘merely’ the physical dimension.
Before you were conceived, Johnny, you were in the very real Spirit Dimension, in your immortal spirit body form, waiting to be born as Johnny, in Australia; your current self being the current lifetime of the eternal soul being which you are. The eternal soul which you are having pre-planned to have a lifetime where you were born in Australia. We plan ALL the major aspects of each of our soul’s many, many lifetimes.
A couple of the many tens of thousands of high-quality, scholarly books on the reality of survival of the death of our physical body ‘coat’ are the following:
“Your Eternal Self: Science discovers the Afterlife”, by R Craig Hogan.
“Glimpses of Eternity”, by Dr Raymond Moody (American psychiatrist).
As I’ve said many a time on this site, at this point, all the uninformed, closed-minded sceptics out there who ‘disbelieve’ the above will discover, on the eventual days on which they each do what is so very incorrectly termed ‘die’, that I’d been stating the 100% truth re. everyone’s survival of physical body ‘death’.
Why do so many people not want to acquire this greatest of all truths, huh???
People who closed-mindedly ridicule and scoff are demonstrating that they don’t want to acquire this greatest of all truths.
All you closed-minded sceptics out there will one day reach a day on which you’ll be forced to say “Oh my —–, that Christine was right in all that she said… she wasn’t talking nonsense, she was relating the truth…”.
Thanks Christine.
Being is what we are.
Human being is what we experience through our bodies.
Or, as Ramana Marharshi and many other teachers stated, albeit in different words:
‘Be as you are’.
But you already know that.
Before and after each of our soul’s many, many lifetimes we are still alive, conscious!! In our spirit body, in the proven to exist Spirit Dimension/Spirit World. We are every bit as conscious before and after ‘death’ as we are when we’re here on Earth. In fact, we’re even more conscious when in our spirit body than we are when here on Earth. The vital point is that we’re all in our spirit body now, here on Earth. For it’s the spirit body that literally animates our physical body. It’s my spirit body fingers that are typing this post right now. It merely seems as if it’s my physical body fingers.
As many spiritually-enlightened people very correctly state, the physical body is dead all the time; ie, the physical body is never actually, itself, alive. It’s the fact that it, the physical body, is animated by the spirit body that is what makes it seem as if the physical body is alive. When, in deep terms, it’s not.
In my earlier post here today, I mentioned the many closed-minded materialists around the world who foolishly refuse to accept the incontrovertible, multifaceted evidences which prove that we do all survive (in our immortal spirit body form) the death of our physical body.
In that earlier post I didn’t refer to the equally misled ‘christian fundamentalists’, who likewise have been well and truly duped, re. the actual nature of what happens after we do what’s so very wrongly termed ‘die’.
There are a number of ‘christians’ on this site. Who are still not aware that they’ve been misinformed. By the equally uninformed, corrupt ‘Church’.
The one and only thing which the ‘Church’ is good for is that it records [so-called] ‘baptisms’, marriages, and burials… For 36+ years I’ve been a genealogist, and of course we genealogists around the world would not be able to carry out our genealogical research fully without the invaluable ‘baptism’, marriage and burial records.
You say that ‘christians’ have been misinformed by a useless Church concerning the afterlife. Are there also Christians (no scare marks) who have not? If so, perhaps explain how Christ was wrong on this issue and how your own authorities are not. Christians like myself need to know how we got misinformed.
What you ‘christians’ around the world merely ‘believe’ is all false dogma and false doctrine. I never fell for the BS of ‘christianity’ (I’m a 66-year-old Englishwoman), because, unlike 99.99% of all who DO fall for the BS of ‘christianity’, I possess critical thinking skills.
I’ve been a passionate scholarly researcher of many big subjects since the tender age of ten.
‘Christianity’ (ditto Islam, etc) is what’s termed a manmade religion; it’s there to control the gullible, brainwashed masses. The latter thus very foolishly ‘believe’ the BS and very foolishly reject/ridicule the actual, proven truth of survival [in our eternal, immortal soul/spirit body form] of physical body death.
I’m very proud to have been a spiritually-enlightened Spiritualist for 30+ years. Unlike what the gullible masses who fell for the BS of ‘christianity’ merely ‘believe’, we countless millions of Spiritualists round the world are able to absolutely prove what we say. Ie, we Spiritualists don’t have ‘authorities’. We have the multifaceted evidences which provide PROOF for what we say (and I’m not using the word ‘proof’ either loosely or wrongly).
There happen to be 30+ different categories for the survival of ‘death’ truth.
(P.S., why do you Americans use the term ‘scare quotes’/’scare marks’?? The correct term is quote marks.)
I posted a reply to you a few minutes ago, but it’s gone into ‘pending’.
I hope it will be printed very soon.
I find the information you provide quite interesting, Christine.
Thank you for sharing it.
But why the “closed minded materialists”, the “truly duped”?
To me that smacks of my being a granny killer because I did not take the jab. Because I do not agree with the covid narrative. Because I chose to act on my own behalf based on my own research and ultimate belief.
Why not just provide your information and let people decide for themselves?
I think this is something that happens far too much, and I’m sure I’m guilty of it, that people are this or that because they do not agree with how I think.
Which is not to say that I am not astonished with how many people think given what I see as obvious, but still, I do not see the purpose in name calling.
I say what I say because closed-minded materialists ARE closed-minded,; they take ‘death’ at face-value, and (peculiarly) have no desire to learn the actual facts, the actual truth. ‘Christians’ worldwide have been well and truly duped by the corrupt, deceitful ‘Christian Church’. When they each return to the Spirit world, they’ll have to face that they had been duped. That they were gullible; brainwashed; indoctrinated into lies and untruths re. the nature of reality/existence.
I’m the only person in my family who refused to submit to any of the injections. I don’t know why you claim that what I say re. closed-minded materialists being uninformed, etc etc, and that ‘christians’ worldwide having been duped, “smacks of my being a granny-killer because I did not take the jab”.
I too do not agree with the ‘covid’ narrative.
No-one should value mere ‘beliefs’ as being more important than the actual facts, the actual truths!! There truly is absolute proof that we all (including animals, birds, etc) survive (in our immortal spirit body form) the very illusory event that has so very unfortunately (and deceitfully…) been given the term ‘death’. When in fact ‘all’ that dies, at ‘death’, is our physical body ‘coat’; the real us, ie, the eternal, immortal soul/spirit being that we each ARE, remains (literally) alive (for it is the spirit body which IS the real us!, is the thing which makes us alive, here on Earth), in the very real Spirit World (as opposed to on Earth). The Spirit World/Spirit Dimension [of this in fact multidimensional cosmos] is where we all come from: it is our actual place of origin (ie, we each being an eternal spirit being – termed a soul, and each soul lives many, many lifetimes. Sometimes thousands of lifetimes… and we all remember those lifetimes each time we return to the very real Spirit World).
My granny killer reference was to the name calling. I think there is far too much of it on comment boards. I don’t like to be referred to as a granny killer because I do not wear a mask or take the jab.
In turn, I am not going to call people who choose to wear a mask and get the jab “sheeple”.
I think both terms are insulting.
So, just because I might disagree with what you believe is unadulterated truth about spirituality, does not make me close-minded. In my opinion.
But again, to each their own.
I don’t merely ‘believe’ that what I say re. survival of physical body truth, I (along with countless millions of other spiritually-enlightened people around the world) KNOW that it’s true. Because there exist mountain-loads of incontrovertible proofs, that’s why!! I don’t ‘do’ mere ‘belief’. Merely ‘believing’ something (whatever the subject) is merely ‘believing’ it without any evidence/knowledge to PROVE its veracity. And I thus do not ‘do’ ‘mere belief’. I’ve been a passionate scholar of many big subjects in life since the tender age of 10 (I’m now 66), and I wait until I have actual evidences/proofs of something’s veracity before I accept it as a truth (whatever the subject might be).
All that people have to do, in order to acquire the proven survival of ‘death’ truth, is to initiate a programme of in-depth, scholarly research into it (as I did, as of Oct. 1994), study the evidences (there are 30+ different categories of the evidences which PROVE that we do all survive (in our immortal spirit body form) the death of our physical body, and then they, too, will be one of the countless millions of spiritually-enlightened people around the world.
Since I began my research into this ultimate truth of existence, I’ve read 1000+ books on it [and own 400+ on this subject], a large percentage of which have been written by the many spiritually-enlightened scientists, doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, lawyers, etc etc around the world who have themselves acquired this life-changing knowledge.
And you dream some of it every night.
Dear Christine,
If we in our state now dont have a clue about our conscience before we were conceived, and we too dont have a clue about our state after death, then it doesnt matter how many books and professionals you refer to as proof.
Because the conclusion will then be that notwithstanding the soul/spirit will continue to live or die in another dimension, there is no connection to the former or the later, so why then bother and waste our time about something completely imaginary?
What I’ve told you all re. this vital subject happens to be 100% factual truth, it is NOT ‘imaginary’. As you will one day find out…
All right.
When I wake up after I am dead in the new dimension, then I will realize I am here in the new place and can now talk to my relatives and “friends.
But when I was alive, I was not allowed to access this the next level.
They just disappeared as dead while I was alive.
Same goes for before I was born. Today I dont have a clue about what I was before I was born.
But when I am going to be born again I will realize I am jumping into the next dimension, the alive dimension and there I will have forgotten everything yes?
So in this spiritual world there is no conscious connection between these 3 dimensions.
To tell you the truth I think the Tech boys will claim they are now able to connect these 2 dots between the 3 dimensions.
If only you are willing to disable yourself, ref the Hollywood films, Avatar, Matrix, m.m.
On the eventual day on which you do what’s so very incorrectly termed ‘die’, you will indeed find yourself (exactly the same as you are now, but minus your physical body ‘coat’) back in the Spirit World/Spirit Dimension: which is in truth our actual place of origin; we are, each and every one of us, an eternal soul, and we temporarily leave the Spirit dimension to come to Earth (and to other physical planets in the multidimensional cosmos) to have a ‘lifetime’: an incarnation. We each pre-plan, whilst still in Spirit, all of the major people and major events in each of our very numerous lifetimes.
On the day on which you do what is so very incorrectly termed ‘die’, you will indeed find yourself (in your immortal spirit body) back in the Spirit world; you will reunite with members of your current life family who have already passed back to Spirit, and you will also reunite with souls with whom you shared previous lifetimes.
People on Earth now are able to access the Spirit world. There are a number of methods. Carry out scholarly research into the subject (in the way in which we intelligent, high-minded people round the world have done…), and you too will be aware of the very real fact/truth that ‘death’ is most definitely NOT the end of existence: that we do all survive the death of our physical body. Consciousness is NOT created by the brain; it operates/manifests through the physical brain, yes, but it is NOT created by the brain. It, consciousness, exists separate to the brain. Which is precisely why we do all survive (in our spirit body form) that wholly illusory event.
And yes, each time we reincarnate, we go through some process which makes us (at our ordinary level of consciousness, but NOT at our deeper soul level of consciousness) forget the existence of the Spirit world and the fact that we survive ‘death’. That is set into the ‘system’; for if we all remembered (at our ordinary level of consciousness) the truth of survival of ‘death’ and of the existence of the amazing Spirit dimension, and if we also remembered the detailed plans we’d each made for each lifetime (which we do all do…), then it wouldn’t be possible to live each lifetime in the way it’s meant to be lived: as if there was no other place to be.
However, when people return (via each ‘death’) to the Spirit world, they will then remember it all; many people who communicate from there say that, on arrival back there, they said to themselves “Oh yes, I remember this now! We survive physical body death, we all originate from this Spirit dimension, and we each live many, many lives… etc”.
All you sceptics on this site will one day find out that what I’ve said in my posts on this ultimate truth of existence WAS the truth. And then you’ll be ashamed for having ‘thumbed down’ my posts, ridiculed me, etc etc…
If you sceptics don’t want to acquire knowledge of this biggest, greatest truth of existence, then that’s your choice… but it’s NOT clever to thumb down/ridicule people who are in fact stating the 100% proven truths.
Look, it’s difficult enough living with my family here on earth, if reuniting with them after “dying” is what I have to look forward to, not to mention the people I hope I never see again in any life or dimension, than, eh, I just may sign up for Elon’s neurolink and see if I can live forever.
But isnt this state exactly what is described in “Avatar” and “Matrix”?
You are disabled, either mentally like in “Matrix” or without legs in “Avatar” yes?
You close your eyes, your body is no more there, you are superman but still yourself.
And more, you do now live forever in this world:
As a religious man I see this as Satan’s promise to the first two humans realized. “You shall surely not die but be Gods yourself”.
All right, why not? As one man i “Matrix” says he cant take the real world any longer. When he close his eyes he only feel and enjoy all the good thinks, fine wine, nice girls, a.s.o.
The real world is cruel. Inside your brain (flatscreen) you can do and imagine anything.
We only have a problem with people like me who like and enjoy the real world 10x more than the Artificial one.
We are different. Man merging with the machine versus Man fighting against the machine.
Its therefore the Liberals and the Big Tech guys need all these disabled human beings on medication to realize their Tech dream.
We who love the open eye physical dimension without pills, need to dismiss it with all we have.
Just one more thing. I am not between those thumb downs.
Well, I never cease to be horrified at the lack of intelligence of some of the people posting on this site… for everyone who’s thumbing-down my 100% factually true posts is demonstrating just that…
Oh to be a fly on the wall when each of you closed-minded sceptics who’ve thumbed me down return to the Spirit World and you each discover that I HAD been stating the absolute truth.
I suspect those who downvote you are not doing so on the basis of what you’re say but of how you’re saying it. I agree 100% with Judith, who pointed out that it is not necessary to disparage those who disagree with you or even with some proven truth. Thinking should not be disparaged – only acting.
For example, I can be as “close-minded” as possible without being guilty of denying some higher truth which has somehow been “proven” to the satisfaction of others (is not religion just such an enterprise?).
It’s simply not possible in a physical realm to “prove” something which exists in a non-physical realm. What tools would be used to achieve such a leap from the physical to the non-physical world? Where does this proof come from? how is it acquired? are there controls which lessen the chance of falsifying data? or is data as we on the physical plane conceive it even an appropriate tool for such an undertaking as proving that which has no material aspect?
I don’t understand why those who subscribe to a spiritual realm find it necessary to discount the essential material aspect of the reality which surrounds us here on Earth. The “known” universe IS material – not spiritual. So why the distaste with purely material expressions of this reality?
Good points Howard.
Alive or dead the only reality is NOW.
Everything else is speculation and of no practical use in the Now.
No, Johnny, ‘everything else’ is NOT ‘just speculation’. That’s the point! There happens to be absolute proof for the veracity of what I’ve told you all, in my posts on this vital subject.
There are 30+ categories of the multi-faceted evidences, evidences which provide incontrovertible proof that ‘death’ is merely a transition back to the Spirit World, that it is NOT the end of existence.
I’ve provided a representative booklist re. this subject a number of times, here on Off-G. I’m sure that you must have seen that list at least once… if you decided to read even just a small fraction of those books, you too would be spiritually-awakened.
Ie, you’d realise that it’s NOT ‘just speculation’, that we all survive (in our immortal spirit body) the event that’s so very incorrectly termed ‘death’. You’d become aware that it’s a definite fact. The truth. Because it IS.
If you don’t understand why it’s vital that everyone should be aware of the true nature of existence, whilst still here on Earth, then you will one day understand (everyone knows the survival truth at their deepest soul level of consciousness, even the most closed-minded materialist).
I’ve explained to you many a time, Howard, the 100% factually true nature of everyone’s survival of the death of their physical body.
I’m not going to go over it yet again.
The proof that we do all survive (in our immortal spirit body form) physical body death is to be found in the mountain-loads of multi-faceted evidences which exist. As I’ve said many a time, there are 30+ different categories of those evidences. Put together, they indeed provide absolute proof that ‘death’ is NOT what it merely appears to be.
We live in a multi-dimensional cosmos. Physical dimensions AND spiritual dimensions. And it’s the spiritual dimension that is the fundamental truth, not the physical. We all (as the eternal soul that we each are) come from that Spirit Dimension, and we all return there, after each of our soul’s many, many lifetimes.
You can choose to ‘not believe’ that, but it still remains the 100% truth.
As you will one day find out.
Christine, I know you’ve explained in considerable detail, not just to me but to several others in this forum, about the primacy of the spiritual realm. I recall at least once when you provided a page worth of referent books – I would have taken a screen shot if that had been possible.
I did write down and will order from Amazon the book by Dr. Hogan; but not the book by Dr. Moody, which seems to be about Near-Death experiences (a field too ripe for abuse – and I’m sure a term you disapprove of). I can imagine your frustration trying to get your message across to people who refuse even to consider it.
I am not one such person however. Though a materialist, I am willing to investigate these ideas – but I must add, my investigation will be strictly with an aim toward discovering the flaw(s) in the information presented. I’m not sure how you rate human logic; but that is our best tool (limited thought it is).
Now I must ask you to understand my frustration at trying to get you to understand the importance of this entity you label a “coat” (the human body). I read in one of your above responses that nothing the body does is actually caused by the body – that even moving the fingers to type is the product of the spirit inhabiting that body. I’m sorry, but that notion is simply a bridge too far for me to accept.
If the spirit, therefore the mind, is separate from the brain, and animates it and the rest of the body entirely, then why would a stroke have any effect on the body’s ability to function normally? Surely the spirit cannot have such a physical thing as a stroke. It’s this kind of disparity between what is physically measurable and spiritually rendered that, to me, puts the whole idea of an overarching spirit in question
(I should point out that as one of the very few “materialists” in this forum – most of the others being religiously inclined – I am much more open to your arguments than the religious people. This, because I don’t see spiritualism as a competing philosophy the way believers in religious dogma do.)
Hi Howard, I’ve only just seen your post of this afternoon (as per my UK time), as haven’t been online since early this morning.
R Craig Hogan (a fellow American of yours; he has a website, can’t recall its title. ‘R Craig Hogan’ would probably find it, or ‘Your Eternal Self’, the title of one of his books) has written several books on the survival of ‘death’ truth.
The one I mentioned (“Your Eternal Self: Science discovers the Afterlife”) is the most recent edition of the book; I bought it some years ago under its original title, “Your Eternal Self”.
I don’t know about Amazon US, but on Amazon UK there are far more reviews for the original edition than the more recent one.
Another of his books is “Evidence beyond a reasonable doubt [that] you will never die”.
And also “Reasons for what happens to you in your life & [in] your Afterlife”.
Why don’t you also take a look at “Faces of the living dead: the amazing psychic art of Frank Leah”, by Paul Miller. It was originally published 60-70 years ago [maybe even 80, can’t recall, without getting my copy out, to check!], but was re-published some years ago, so that more people could access it.
Re. NDE’s. Well, they have very unfortunately been wrongly ridiculed by materialist science. But that stance is so, so wrong. For the content of many, many NDEs absolutely proves that we definitely do all survive the death of our physical body.
It is, at the deepest level, a fact that it’s our spirit body which causes our physical body to move. That is because the spirit body (ie, the exact-same us as we are, right now) is what literally animates the physical body ‘coat’. And that is why, at the moment of ‘death’, the physical body becomes motionless. Ie, because the thing which caused it to be able to move (the spirit body!) is no longer there to animate it. For the spirit body (ie, us, the same us as now, simply without our physical body ‘coat’) has literally emerged from the physical body, hence is not there to enable it to move.
In earlier posts on this site (whether addressed to you or to other commenters), re. the survival truth, I recall mentioning a couple of NDE’s (there are numerous ones which provide the exact-same sort of information: incontrovertible survival evidence) which provided evidence of survival which could NOT be ‘explained away’ by any means.
One such was of a young American boy, aged 7 or 8, who was ‘dying’ of leukaemia. He was in hospital, and had had several NDEs. During one of them, he was approached by a gentleman in the Spirit world (for that is where people go, when having an NDE), who told the young boy his name, and said that he was a former boyfriend of the boy’s mother.
He said “Tell your mum [he of course would have used the word ‘mom‘!] that I’m now fine, that I have my leg back now“.
Well, the boy had not known of this man’s existence. On his return to his physical body, he told his mother of the encounter, and she reacted by telling him that yes, she HAD had a boyfriend of that name, and that he’d lost his leg in an accident. She made some phone calls, and discovered that he’d [done what’s wrongly termed] ‘died’ some weeks earlier [or some months, I can’t recall, for it’s several years since I read the account].
Ie, the man had known, from his vantage point in Spirit, that his former girlfriend’s young son was having NDEs, prior to his ‘death’, and decided to communicate with the boy in the way that he did, in order to provide an example of incontrovertible evidence of survival.
I recall another such evidence, that of the NDE of a young American teenager/young woman who had an NDE during or shortly after the 2nd WW, and was communicated with by a man there, who gave her his name, and said that he’d been her aunt’s [or gt-aunt’s; again, I can’t recall, for is some years since I read the account] fiance. He asked the young woman to tell her aunt/gt-aunt that “he had their daughter, that she was fine”; that he’d ‘died’ in the 2nd WW, and that the shock of his ‘death’ had caused her to miscarry their child. Ie, the daughter he’d referred to. For miscarried, ‘aborted’ babies also (of course) survive the death of their physical bodies (I had a ‘termination’ in 1989; I was carrying twins, though didn’t know it at the time. I’ve not wanted children in this lifetime. Both my son and my daughter have communicated with me several times.
If I remember rightly, the two above examples of evidence were in the excellent “The Big Book of Near-Death Experiences”, by your fellow American, P M H Atwater. She is internationally-recognised as an expert on the NDE.
I’ve just posted a reply to you, timed at 7.36pm, today, 24 Feb. However, it’s gone into ‘pending’… I do hope it’ll be released ASAP so that you can read it.
A P.S. to my lengthy reply to you of yesterday evening.
No, I don’t disapprove of the term ‘Near-Death Experiences’!! For it’s a wholly accurate description of such events. See my reply to you (posted at 7.36pm yesterday, UK time) for just two examples of many, many NDEs which provide categorical, incontrovertible proof that yes, we do all survive the death of our physical body.
Christine, you didn’t address the crucial part of my reply to you. Namely, regarding a stroke. If the body is just an empty vessel entirely animated by the spirit, then having a stroke – even a severe stroke – should have no effect whatever on the spirit’s ability to continue animating the body at will.
The fact that the body no longer animates as before the stroke suggests that the body is not merely a “coat” but an active participant in being alive which deserves as much respect as the spirit – rather than being something which the spirit merely casts off when no longer needed.
I forgot, yesterday, to respond to some of the things you said in your post. My apologies.
A human body (also animals’ and birds’, etc, bodies) not working properly (in whatever way) is analogous to when a TV doesn’t work properly. In the latter example, the broadcast itself [coming from elsewhere; for of course TV programmes are NOT ‘hidden somewhere in the physical TV set’] is not ‘ailing’, but the TV set is; the latter being merely the physical vehicle through which the broadcast becomes accessible. So when a human, animal, bird, etc, is ill, in whatever way, that is the physical body being ill, but not the spirit body which truly does animate the physical.
The physical body is the means by which the soul/spirit being [ie, their essence: their real self] of humans, animals, birds, etc, manifest in a physical form, on Earth. Because a spirit body cannot be seen on Earth other than by people who are lucky enough to possess clairvoyant vision. Thus the soul/spirit has to ‘wear’ an outer coat [hence the word ‘coat’ for the physical body. N.B., it’s not merely my word to refer to that; many, many spiritually-awakened people use the word ‘coat’ to refer to the physical body], ie, the physical body.
Not until I woke up saw how badly people treated me in my last life, then it hurt.
It might be worthwhile for you to take a look at the link below.
https://seekreality.com
Thanks Christine.
Barry Long (Eckhart Tolle’s teacher and student of Jiddu Krishnamurti) says it best.
His logic is irrefutable:
I’m afraid what you call “irrefutable” logic, I call chicanery. Within the first 4 minutes he makes at least two totally unproven and therefore illogical claims:
1) That Life exists independent of the Living. If Life exists apart from its Living representations, where is it? Show it to me.
2) That only humans are self-aware. How can it be that entities (not merely animals but plants as well) which lack self-awareness strive to maintain homeostatic properties which preserve their selves?
Below is R Craig Hogan’s site. The author of (amongst other books) “Your Eternal Self: Science discovers the Afterlife” [you said in your post to me yesterday that you are going to purchase it].
He provides some of the mountain-loads of multi-faceted evidences which prove incontrovertibly that we do most definitely all survive (in our immortal spirit body form) the death of our physical body.
I’ve not yet had time to watch the video which Johnny provided. But yes, you are right that it is NOT only humans who are self-aware. For many years I’ve been very angry at people who claim that we are the only self-aware species. People who think that are demonstrating their arrogance.
https://seekreality.com
Life, like Love, is not quantifiable or visible.
It is only knowable.
Life, like Love, cannot be dissected or even explained.
It just IS.
Self awareness is not the same as instinct and/or self preservation.
Self awareness can only be experienced when one drops the persona.