What do the protesters believe they are protesting?

trump-clinton-400x399
A victory for freedom, justice and human happiness it isn’t. Those currently frothing at the mouth about the dawn of a new golden age of peace and equality really should know better. A billionaire and friend of billionaires just won an election. 1789 it isn’t.
But Clinton would have blown up the world. Trump probably won’t. Which makes the current situation a very tiny, possibly temporary, but still vanishingly rare moment of sanity in a largely insane world. For that small reason alone sane people everywhere should welcome it for what it is.
So, what to make of those who don’t?
Hysteria. Fainting. Screaming. Pseudo-Leftists happy to support Obama’s imperialism and domestic tyranny, beating their chests and seeking counselling for PTSD because democracy happened. “Mass” riots of thousands (or is it only hundreds? Depends on your source) of outraged identity-politicians.
What do these protesters think they are protesting?
Fascism? Well, ok, but where were they during the past sixteen years during which America has been dragged by inches into becoming the proto-facist state it now is? Besides what is more fascist-populist that using riot and civil unrest to overturn a democratic vote?
Racism? Sexism? Climate-denial? Which of these offenses is worse than nuclear war? And where is it written in the US constitution that they justify the reversal of an election?
And what about those alt news types supporting the “protesters”? Do they agree with Change.org that the vote should be overturned by the electoral college and Clinton given the presidency because she has a vagina and her chums can mobilise mass-hysteria? Are they basically saying they were for Hillary all along, because the Pentagon and Wall Street and WW3 are the lesser of two evils?
If that’s not what they are saying, then what? Protest needs an aim, so what is the aim here? More Obama? Martial Law? Total societal disintegration?
All better than Trump?
Really?
Would be great to get some feedback here.


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TT
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TT

Interesting why I can’t post this to Facebook. It keeps kicking me off. Well, I tried. Good words my friend, good word!

pavlovscat7
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pavlovscat7

Facebook has gone to Hawaii to build a fortress for the Canaanites…..So don’t any of you spoilsports tell him about James Cook.. ok?

MrGermany
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i can tell you: the protest a system “without real alternatives”
why is there no alternative to “the dollar” “the euro”?
why is every economist promoting growth and competition but not in those sectors?
https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/20/soros-60minute-video/

Arrby
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The article, unsigned – which I disapprove of – is mostly right on. How fascist does a society have to become before we stop using mild terms like “proto” or “quasi” or what have you? (I don’t read editorials generally, although some argue, reasonably, that that gives you the flavor of the direction of that medium. I do trust OG in this area, but I still don’t like unsigned articles.) Rightwingers and fake progressives are calling for non violent revolution here? This is confusing and there are no doubt some on the Right who are enjoying seeing Chris Hedges’s call… Read more »

John
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John

There is one other possible explanation: many of those displaying angst so publicly may have originally been Sanders supporters who kept quiet after Clinton stole the nomination, held their noses and decided to work to get her elected as the least worst alternative, only now to find that maybe Sanders could have beaten Trump.
Just imagine the amount of dismay and soul-searching such a realisation could cause!
No wonder they all feel they need counselling!

Silliness
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Silliness
Greg Bacon
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When the Wikileaks emails clearly showed Clinton and the DNC sabotaging Bernie Sanders primary campaign to clear the way for Hillary, perverting democracy, where were these protesters then, or didn’t Soros pay them to raise hell back then?

Paul Revere
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Paul Revere

I agree. This email trail is one of the most damning of the Clinton oeuvre to attain power. It is really too bad that the protesters do not reflect on this before they gnash their teeth. HRC sunk the prospects of a democrat, with genuinely sound and ethical principles, in her own narcissistic efforts to be the first woman president-elect. At what point do the HRC supporters recognise that she (a) sunk the democratic vote by side-lining Sanders and (b) did so because she was herself too power hungry to see the benefit of the greater good? HRC is a… Read more »

John
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John

In the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle story “Silver Blaze”, fictional detective Sherlock Holmes says “The Question Is, My Dear Watson, Why Did the Dog Not Bark?”
One could ask a similar question of Bernie Sanders too – could one not?
Why was he so silent when the nomination was so obviously stolen from him?
Clinton representatives won 6 primaries in succession on a coin toss – what’s the odds on that?
Yet still Sanders and his followers had absolutely nothing to say about it.
Why?

Seamus Padraig
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Seamus Padraig

These protests are ridiculous. And I’m not saying that from a partisan perspective, either. I felt exactly the same way about all that ‘tea party’ non-sense years ago. Are we now going to have protests every time we switch out presidents? These kids protesting have no real cause; they are just butt-hurt cry-babies.

elenits
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Manipulated, externally directed cry-babies.

Mark Gravesend
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Mark Gravesend

It already seems to be pretty well established that this election was a vote for the least worst candidate. But, whether or not Trump truly is the ‘least worst’, or whether the electoral college vote was fudged by those behind the scenes who considered the Clinton brand too toxic is likely to be fodder for ‘shadow government’ theorists for years to come. The (unpleasant) facts are that Trump is prez-elect, and that the protesters lack a coherent narrative and seem to be stuck with articulating various themes “it just ain’t fair”. When pressed, many will cite Clinton’s gender, seemingly oblivious… Read more »

John
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John

‘… I cannot shake the feeling that this absolutely shit (non) choice was quite carefully orchestrated from positions outside of the scrutiny and camera range of the media circus.’ As soon as it became obvious that Clinton and Trump were going to be the contenders, I left numerous comments on this site that whichever of them won, Netanyahu would be laughing all the way from Tel Aviv to the White House. I also pointed out who both candidate’s daughters were married to – ultra-orthodox Jewish-American zionists. Current media reports are suggesting that Jared Kushner – Trump’s son-in-law – is behind… Read more »

mog
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mog

This site, as far as I understand, grew out of the astonishingly blatant covering for fascism in Ukraine that emerged in The Guardian. It has given a lot of space to correcting the propaganda surrounding that situation. What about the China situation though? Trump seems to have opened a path away from imminent conflict between USA and Russia, but he regards climate change as a ‘Chinese Hoax’. The military tension between China and US gets scant mention here. Don’t miss Pilger’s film: http://thecomingwarmovie.com/about I see nothing ‘sane’ about Trump, his policies, the people that he is appointing (Stephen Bannon). I… Read more »

elenits
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I rated you down because a basic education, or failing that a quick look at any history book/site would show you that Hitler was not democratically elected but appointed by default.
Trump was democratically elected US style, i.e. county and states, as opposed to [though still a question] number of votes.

Frank
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Frank

Hitler was not democratically elected to power, nor did the Nazis ever achieve an absolute majority in the Reichstag. 1932 saw the last legitimate election in Germany: the Nazis got 33% of the vote and 196 seats, the SPD/KDP bloc got 37% of the vote and 221 seats. The rest of the votes were shared out among the smaller parties, of which Zentrum a south German catholic centre party got 12% of the vote and 70 seats. In order to introduce some semblance in a country which was almost in a state of civil war, the elderly Hindenburg, made Hitler… Read more »

mog
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mog

I stand corrected.
I guess my point is that Hitler did not seize power through military force (if we exclude the actions of his supporters at rallies etc.)
My argument is further undermined by the apparent fact that Trump has not WON the election, but rather the fraudsters have determined that he should win. The vote was rigged- massively:
http://markcrispinmiller.com/
Some say that the comparison with 1930’s Germany is inappropriate for other reasons. However, I am with Chris Hedges on this. The crackdown has started already:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_worse_than_you_think_20161111

John
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John

The reason Hitler did not attempt to gain political power through military means was beause he already had tried this option, which failed completely in Munich in 1923. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch. A lot of people – here and elsewhere – are making assumptions about Trump which based upon little in way of reality. Right now, I consider him largely to be an enigma. We all know very little about him or his real beliefs. He is already rowing back from some of his campaign pledges and trying to appear more statesman-like. We may find ourselves still wondering what he is about… Read more »

Frank
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Frank

The Sturmabetilung (SA) were certainly using military means in the struggle for National Socialism and carried light arms. In 1932 they numbered 400,000 and by early 1933, 2 million. 20 times the size of the German army allowed by the Treaty of Versailles. They were later disbanded after the Night of the Long Knives, when their leaderaship was wiped out by the newly formed SS Hitler’s Praetorian guard.

John
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John

In 1932, membership of the Communist Party of Germany was 360,000 according to Catherine Epstein. “The last revolutionaries: German communists and their century”. Harvard University Press, 2003. Pp. 39. – cited as Note 1 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany#cite_note-1. I believe both the Communists and the Social Democrats had armed members – as well as the Nazis – but I am not sure what the numbers of armed Communists and Social Democrats were. Hitler relied upon weapons supplied by the Army to carry out his Night of the Long Knives purge, thus implicating the Army in the plot and then introduced a revised… Read more »

Media Miike
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Sexist? Trump has more senior female execs and pays them more than their male counterparts on average. Racist? Trump has execs and employees of all colors in the thousands. He received awards for helping Black youth in New York. Never one complaint when he was a TV star.
He is a successful, alpha White Male. Get used to it. He’ll be here for 8 years, with more Trumps to come. Hillary killed the Kennedy gene, but didn’t see the Trumps coming!

Mark Lemmon (@WhiteUSmale)
Reader

The Bilderberg group picked Clinton to rule as a shill for their NWO/UN ends… Whatever label you want to attach to this scam it still adds up to tyranny. The purple iPod packing zombies on the street “protesting” are paid by the fascist George Soros indirectly. They need to be stopped as this an insurrection…

mogreenz
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mogreenz

The day-care generation strikes !

abinico warez
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abinico warez

The United States IS a fascist state – obozocare made it a medical fascist state.

James Morgan
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James Morgan

These protestors are paid agents provocateurs bussed in by the buss load. See blocks and blocks of parked busses in Chicago.

Sam Nelson
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The title says it all, facts should be sacred, and the picture, the picture of Hillary on one side and Trump on the other, that’s it in a nutshell. It is all about facts: the fact that riots are part of the plan to conquer the world and in so doing get rid of 90 percent of the people on Earth. The picture about appearance, blacks hate the one thing they cannot change, their appearance. Whites are hated not because they are mean to people not white, in fact white people bend over backwards to help and befriend people not… Read more »

lg
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lg

I do not agree with deleting this comment. Censoring does no one any favors, it just shields people from the reality that people are this crazy. Sam Nelson, you said whites breeding with blacks is “in opposition to our creator”….if your claimed creator is God of the Bible you’re wrong. The verses people who say such ridiculous things always point out as “proof” are never referring to race. They refer to God’s elect family mixing with unbelievers and mixing true doctrine with false doctrine. Not race. To reiterate this, in the book of Numbers Miriam speaks against Moses, one of… Read more »

Caro
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Caro

This is a disgusting comment. I say it should be removed.

elenits
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Why? Let it stand! Both democracy and intellectual freedom depends 100% on letting unpopular opinions be heard. And many of them have proved correct – Galileo for example, who the Catholic church vowed to burn at the stake. Haven’t you had enough of banned & burned books and propagandised “opinion”? Your opinion of people is so low that they “need” directed “news” and “right think”? Because this is the very definition of the Orwellian state – which (i.e.) is the state of The West at present, and the reason why OffGuardian, among others, exists.

Caro
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Caro

I was referring to comment from “Sam Nelson”.

StAug
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It’s a pretty creepy couple of comments, up there, for sure, but I think we should save the deletions for the utterly horrendous (or for luggage spam) because, after all, most of us are here after having had enough of seeing (probably not very creepy) comments disappeared at The Guardian. I, personally, must have wasted my time typing nearly one hundred carefully-considered, ad-hom-free, destined-to-be-vaporized comments at the GU, between 2006 and 2009, so I’m hesitant to advocate comment deletions. Anyway, isn’t it far better to refute creepy nonsense, in the light of day, for all to see, than to hide… Read more »

pavlovscat7
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pavlovscat7

It could be a natural-law Aug if Sam and Bob keep going to family reunions to pick up women.

StAug
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Har! I forgot about this old thread!

pavlovscat7
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pavlovscat7

It’s so effing hot here we’re confined to quarters and I’ve just been trolling around all day… Can you see what you can do to get those HAARP jockeys to steer a hurricane this way? before we all die? I think I may have killed binra though…have to wait and see……. sheeeez! it’s %$#&**hot!

StAug
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The HAARP jockeys have turned ignoring my requests into a badge of honor (or a mission statement), I’m afraid.

louisproyect
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Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website, Moon of Alabama and others that exchanged blind loyalty to the Guardian for blind loyalty to RT.com. The contradictions will mount over the next four years. You have painted yourselves into a corner.

elenits
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As ever LP, better trolling please.

Jen
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Jen

“Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website, Moon of Alabama and others that exchanged blind loyalty to the Guardian for blind loyalty to RT.com. The contradictions will mount over the next four years. You have painted yourselves into a corner.” I’m beginning to wonder whether Louis Proyect’s friends outside Off-Guardian include Sam Nelson and Bob, as these two posted comments of a type that Louis P must have been dying to extract his two cents’ worth of attention by lambasting Off-Guardian as a blog… Read more »

Seamus Padraig
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Seamus Padraig

Ah, yes! Putin and Assad–those well-known state sponsors of eugenics.
By the way, Proyect: shouldn’t you be out protesting Trump or something? I hear Soros is hiring.

duplicitousdemocracy
Reader

Mr Proyect, your notoriety for being a mouthpiece for extreme Zionist propaganda can only be matched by the raving fruit cake at the elder of ziyon website. Your interpretation of Sam Nelsons comment is as bizarre as it is wrong. I thought Zionists encouraged ‘others’ to integrate while trying to maintain a certain religious purity in one country, in particular. Mr Nelson’s comments are worthless gibberish,, much like your own, however you both have the right to embarrass yourselves as I have the right to laugh at the pair of you.

louisproyect
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“Mr Proyect, your notoriety for being a mouthpiece for extreme Zionist propaganda can only be matched by the raving fruit cake at the elder of ziyon website.”
I wasn’t aware that I have been promoting Zionism. I’d ask you to cite my words but I am afraid that someone as illiterate as you would find that too high a mountain to climb.

StAug
Reader

“Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website…” I love the crinkled-lipped arrogance of that “as i have tried to explain…”! Brilliant. But… …Your comment is Obamaite Nonsense, louisproyect. I’ve encountered hundreds or thousands of racist comments of that ilk over the decades; they’re all stamped from the same old rusty cookie-cooker of sexual envy/ status anxiety and they pre-exist Trump or Putin by a very long time. There are no contradictions between racist commenters and their racist comments while your comments are painting you… Read more »

louisproyect
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“Are you devastated that HRC’s genocidal undertow was diverted (temporarily) by Trump’s reactionary undertow?”
Actually, I wrote in favor of Jill Stein repeatedly but don’t let the truth stand in the way of your febrile ranting.

StAug
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“Actually, I wrote in favor of Jill Stein…”
That’s very exciting news, louisproyect! That and your remote-temperature-taking abilities… very impressive.

Bob
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Bob

Unlike the others, I completely agree with you. Birds of a feather flock together, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Has nothing to do with “hate” and everything to do with the natural order of things … how we are created, as it were. God made us that way. We are always told “diversity is our strength”, yet I’ve never once heard an explanation of exactly why that is. The races and tribes have never stopped self-segregation in spite of the 50+ years being spoon-fed by social engineers that we must and no one has a problem with it. It… Read more »

pavlovscat7
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pavlovscat7

Yeah!…I know!….I think your deposition has finally shown the non-nazis.. just what a shame it is when cousins get married.

StAug
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“White people were not made to breed with black people or visa versa.”
My ancestry is a total mishmosh and so, too, that of my two children, and we all feel pretty great. The fact that the “Races” (however you think you can demarcate these old tribal categories, scientifically) can, in fact, “interbreed,” pretty much settles the question of what they were “made” to do. Yes the pertinent bits seem to fit quite well together, thanks, and they produce the desired results. Perhaps you’re doing it wrong…?

John
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John

Admin:
This comment has to be one of the most bizarre I have ever read here.
Are you going to let it stay here?
I think its should be removed – permanently.

TT
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TT

There is this cartoon where a guy standing outside of a crowd is shirtless while the people in the crowd are all wearing shirts that say “be yourself”, shouting at the guy “non-conformist”

elenits
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Let it stand. Free speech, remember?

pavlovscat7
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pavlovscat7

Yes imprimatur….Stet!….let it stand.. it has given confirmation to the scared and the ignorant but, it has also shown fear and ignorance to the confirmed.

Jen
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Jen

To paraphrase that well known cliche, it would have been better for Sam to stay quiet and let others think him a fool than to post his comment and remove all doubt.

Norman Pilon
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Yup. And I thought I was confused.

Quest
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Quest

All I know is the Savior Trump told Fox News yesterday that he is not going to hire a special prosecute because he does not want to “hurt the Clintons and that “they are “good people”. He’s backing off on repealing Obamacare and building his wall as well as deporting illegals. Fucking amazing! The election is only a few days old and Trump is already changing his tune on the issues that got him elected! The jokes on us, You fools! If that’s not bad enough take a look at the people being considered for a Trump administration. Jews, Bankers… Read more »

louisproyect
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“Jews, Bankers and politicians.”
What, letting the homosexuals off easy? It is them who are eroding the fiber of the manly republic more than anybody. Just ask David Duke.

Media Miike
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You’re taking too much stock in media reporting. People being in media-announced meetings, and people actually being considered are two different things. Not one thing has ACTUALLY happened except Bannon, and that was brilliant.

D3F1ANT
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D3F1ANT

I think it’s hilarious! The “protesters” think they’re some kind of movement. What are their goals? Do they think they’ll win an election “do-over”? It just underscores the fact that they don’t understand the system at all. Not to mention the protests are fake. I’ve seen all the ads.

Me
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Me

Fuck Hillary’s vagina. Oh, wait…

Concerned Citizen
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Concerned Citizen

First off I would like to thank you for expressing what many people are asking: what are they protesting about anyways? Next I would like to say, instead of guessing what Trump will and will not do, why not wait and see? Why not support the person who we the people elected, instead of dissing them before they are even sworn into office and put their feet up on the desk?

WyoMan
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WyoMan

Great Article! I’ve been asking the same question for the last several days. Even the “protesters” can’t explain (cogently) what they’re protesting – that makes them agitators in my book… some are paid agitators… a la Ukraine. I hope this is NOT the direction we are heading.

John
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John

Marx had a term for such persons: lumpenproletariat. There is some interesting content on this term at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat. These people are also known as horizontalists, in that they can only unite locally on a very narrow local basis. Their real revolutionary potential – like the Occupy Movement – verges on being zero. If they seriously want real political change, they will have to engage in the long, often tedious, process of getting involved in real political activity, i.e. get inside an existing political party and work inside it for years to change its policies towards those they want to see.… Read more »