A victory for freedom, justice and human happiness it isn’t. Those currently frothing at the mouth about the dawn of a new golden age of peace and equality really should know better. A billionaire and friend of billionaires just won an election. 1789 it isn’t.
But Clinton would have blown up the world. Trump probably won’t. Which makes the current situation a very tiny, possibly temporary, but still vanishingly rare moment of sanity in a largely insane world. For that small reason alone sane people everywhere should welcome it for what it is.
So, what to make of those who don’t?
Hysteria. Fainting. Screaming. Pseudo-Leftists happy to support Obama’s imperialism and domestic tyranny, beating their chests and seeking counselling for PTSD because democracy happened. “Mass” riots of thousands (or is it only hundreds? Depends on your source) of outraged identity-politicians.
What do these protesters think they are protesting?
Fascism? Well, ok, but where were they during the past sixteen years during which America has been dragged by inches into becoming the proto-facist state it now is? Besides what is more fascist-populist that using riot and civil unrest to overturn a democratic vote?
Racism? Sexism? Climate-denial? Which of these offenses is worse than nuclear war? And where is it written in the US constitution that they justify the reversal of an election?
And what about those alt news types supporting the “protesters”? Do they agree with Change.org that the vote should be overturned by the electoral college and Clinton given the presidency because she has a vagina and her chums can mobilise mass-hysteria? Are they basically saying they were for Hillary all along, because the Pentagon and Wall Street and WW3 are the lesser of two evils?
If that’s not what they are saying, then what? Protest needs an aim, so what is the aim here? More Obama? Martial Law? Total societal disintegration?
All better than Trump?
Would be great to get some feedback here.
For direct-transfer bank details click here.
Interesting why I can’t post this to Facebook. It keeps kicking me off. Well, I tried. Good words my friend, good word!
Facebook has gone to Hawaii to build a fortress for the Canaanites…..So don’t any of you spoilsports tell him about James Cook.. ok?
i can tell you: the protest a system “without real alternatives”
why is there no alternative to “the dollar” “the euro”?
why is every economist promoting growth and competition but not in those sectors?
The article, unsigned – which I disapprove of – is mostly right on. How fascist does a society have to become before we stop using mild terms like “proto” or “quasi” or what have you? (I don’t read editorials generally, although some argue, reasonably, that that gives you the flavor of the direction of that medium. I do trust OG in this area, but I still don’t like unsigned articles.)
Rightwingers and fake progressives are calling for non violent revolution here? This is confusing and there are no doubt some on the Right who are enjoying seeing Chris Hedges’s call for non violent revolution abused this way. It’s not so much that Chris’s prescription isn’t called for here. It is, but not entirely. That is, It seems to be called for here. But there’s a big BUT that those who want to wear the label progressive, with integrity, should think about.
Obviously, There are those who are urging the masses to ignore the election rules, which they do on a regular basis, in connection with all kinds of matters, for that is how the powerful become and stay powerful. The fake progressives adding their voices to those on the Right calling for non violent (I assume) revolution here reveal themselves, since what they should be doing is responding to those rightwing howlers by asking them where they were over the years when activists and others were trying to democratize the electoral system. But, This mass of anguished (Right and Left) progressives seems to feel strongly that the masses are, at last, as unprincipled as they are and can be expected therefore to assist in some sort of 1%-inspired coup, for one thing, which is bizarro, since the system, one would think, is already just the barbaric sort of system they want. Or maybe it needs to ‘look’ nicer to the Left side of that group of howlers and they think (for some strange reason) that it would look better under the monstrous Clinton. It also shows how far into darkness the pseudo progressive movement has gone that it can engage in such behavior. (I just finished a post on my blog about how, after all these years, Common Dreams has finally booted me, but not because I’m some yahoo rightwinger seeking to disrupt discussions. See my post titled “Common Dreams wants donations and will sacrifice progressives to get them.” – http://bit.ly/2f7DgK7)
That they – the pseudo progressives mostly, I assume – would be howling at us (to revolt?) instead of chastising their rightwing allies who have led us here, is nuts. It shows what they think of democracy. One wonders, Were they genuinely upset that we got Citizen United (I & II) and voter suppression and dark money rules? Maybe they were upset in a wrong way, feeling like they were bullied and causing them to look for a way to not look like victims. Macho, unprincipled people do not want to look like victims. It’s easier to get along with bullies who you fear than it is to stand up to them, and morally supporting them, which you do just by imitating them, is one way to get along with them. So expect fake progressives (remember Chris Hitchens and Alan Dershowitz) to turn on and bully real (law abiding, well behaved and non threatening) progressives.
Chris Hedges idea of non violent revolution, however realistic, is at least morally supportable. (But he is a captive of Christendom and can’t, as I do, reassure people that there is a higher power with a plan that the powerful will have no power to resist.) So now we are to imitate the fascists and capture the country back from them via undemocratic means so that we can restore democracy? And that isn’t to say that the American (or any Western or non Western) electoral system is democratic. In the sense that the people have over the years let it become undemocratic, with some people objecting, I guess you could say that the protesters/howlers are here protesting a democratic outcome. But the outcome is darkness. Yes, It’s annoying, to say the least, that they can’t get fired up about the undemocratic electoral system, period, and not just because they didn’t ‘win’ and are now being encouraged by their visibly (and in some cases invisible?) upset rightwing allies to encourage the rest of us to respond, lawlessly, to that loss. If that were to go somewhere, but not to the point of completely destabilizing the country, How much easier would it be for the 1% and it’s tools to do regime change, via color revolution, elsewhere?
The global 1%, and those who they manage to ruin mentally and spiritually, will be dealt with, but not by ‘we the people’.
There is one other possible explanation: many of those displaying angst so publicly may have originally been Sanders supporters who kept quiet after Clinton stole the nomination, held their noses and decided to work to get her elected as the least worst alternative, only now to find that maybe Sanders could have beaten Trump.
Just imagine the amount of dismay and soul-searching such a realisation could cause!
No wonder they all feel they need counselling!
I guess if any of the “savvy” posters here were wise to the fact that this election like 2000 and 2004 was stolen they wouldn’t be asking such asinine questions like “Gee, why are people protesting?”.
When the Wikileaks emails clearly showed Clinton and the DNC sabotaging Bernie Sanders primary campaign to clear the way for Hillary, perverting democracy, where were these protesters then, or didn’t Soros pay them to raise hell back then?
I agree. This email trail is one of the most damning of the Clinton oeuvre to attain power.
It is really too bad that the protesters do not reflect on this before they gnash their teeth. HRC sunk the prospects of a democrat, with genuinely sound and ethical principles, in her own narcissistic efforts to be the first woman president-elect. At what point do the HRC supporters recognise that she (a) sunk the democratic vote by side-lining Sanders and (b) did so because she was herself too power hungry to see the benefit of the greater good?
HRC is a sham and an abject failure … and it is because she tried to pursue her own trajectory of self-aggrandisement that she fell short. Shame on her – for her own self-inflated egotism and self-importance. She was a war hawk, steeped in shite, and the protesters are seemingly wailing because, equipped with the reproductive organs of a woman, she still didn’t win. First a black man, then, I guess the logic runs, there should be a white woman – thereafter, I guess there is a black woman … a strangely out-to-lunch system of merit accorded to one’s personal identity, devoid of any reference to merit.
Long do I rue the day that identity politics became the basis for electing the power of the US presidency.
None of this is really to suggest that Trump is in any way worthy of the position. But voting HRC because she is a woman is ludicrous and sexist.
In the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle story “Silver Blaze”, fictional detective Sherlock Holmes says “The Question Is, My Dear Watson, Why Did the Dog Not Bark?”
One could ask a similar question of Bernie Sanders too – could one not?
Why was he so silent when the nomination was so obviously stolen from him?
Clinton representatives won 6 primaries in succession on a coin toss – what’s the odds on that?
Yet still Sanders and his followers had absolutely nothing to say about it.
These protests are ridiculous. And I’m not saying that from a partisan perspective, either. I felt exactly the same way about all that ‘tea party’ non-sense years ago. Are we now going to have protests every time we switch out presidents? These kids protesting have no real cause; they are just butt-hurt cry-babies.
Manipulated, externally directed cry-babies.
It already seems to be pretty well established that this election was a vote for the least worst candidate. But, whether or not Trump truly is the ‘least worst’, or whether the electoral college vote was fudged by those behind the scenes who considered the Clinton brand too toxic is likely to be fodder for ‘shadow government’ theorists for years to come.
The (unpleasant) facts are that Trump is prez-elect, and that the protesters lack a coherent narrative and seem to be stuck with articulating various themes “it just ain’t fair”. When pressed, many will cite Clinton’s gender, seemingly oblivious to the contradiction inherent to electing someone solely on the basis of gender is still sexism while accusing Trump of sexism.
Others will suggest that Clinton is the most well prepared for the role, having cut her teeth in DC over the years and carried positions of authority and responsibility. Yet, even here the contradictions come into effect, again with protesters seemingly oblivious to these, because especially with so much experience in DC, it is highly probable that not only is Clinton saturated and still deeply immersed in the toxicity of the favours economy that drives DC, but she is manifestly a continuance of Mr Hopey Changey duplicity.
Still other protesters will claim that Clinton is experienced and wise in the ways of politics, while others might also suggest that because she is a woman she is less likely to be violent (Michael Moore, for example, took this line of endorsement). Yet this is not backed up by the available history. Not only the whole email issue – so much for the wisdom of her political nous – but also Clinton’s Libyan war, her cheering of the means by which Gaddaffi was murdered, let alone whatever axe she has to grind against her previous treatment by the media and the American people, and her apparent trenchant for seeking revenge against those who get in her way (asking whether a drone can be used for Assange comes to mind).
Finally, if the protesters are calling for democracy, and if the US election was fair, then are they not protesting against the results of the very thing they claim to support, and really what it comes down to is that they don’t like the result and therefore claim it isn’t democratic? Indeed, the protesters do seem wrapped in contradiction and hubris.
Yet, none of this detracts from the stark reality that Trump in the White House has all of the appeal as a turd on one’s dinner plate. You can barely even push it away without somehow getting smeared with it, and I find myself hard pressed to come up with any consolations that aren’t of the nature that somehow he is less bad than Clinton. He might indeed help to generate the US economy, but only according to the old model of unlimited growth in a fossil fuel intensive way; he might indeed not trigger a nuclear war with Russia, but his relations with China are less than congenial; he might not support globalisation, but is not likely to be pro-unions; he is less likely to be interested in American expansionism, but through his climate change denialism may fuck up the chances for other nations anyway.
Beyond this false dualism of Clinton v Trump or Trump v Clinton, the ‘establishment’ still wins – Murdoch or Time Warner, the shadow government, the bastions of the New World Order, those who seek to bring down the global population, to take the planetary systems to the brink of resilience, to accelerate profit maximisation while dismantling social programmes and safety nets, compassion and the Keynesian idea of the general public good.
Whichever way one looks at this, it is a mess for everyone outside of the elitist bubble, and while it may seem that I have been buying recent shares in tin foil, I cannot shake the feeling that this absolutely shit (non) choice was quite carefully orchestrated from positions outside of the scrutiny and camera range of the media circus. Of course, raising such concerns gets one labelled a nutter, which puts many off from taking such ideas seriously and challenging the orthodoxy. Nevertheless, there was a time when Galileo was also accused of heresy, so maybe doing so is not such a bad thing.
‘… I cannot shake the feeling that this absolutely shit (non) choice was quite carefully orchestrated from positions outside of the scrutiny and camera range of the media circus.’
As soon as it became obvious that Clinton and Trump were going to be the contenders, I left numerous comments on this site that whichever of them won, Netanyahu would be laughing all the way from Tel Aviv to the White House.
I also pointed out who both candidate’s daughters were married to – ultra-orthodox Jewish-American zionists.
Current media reports are suggesting that Jared Kushner – Trump’s son-in-law – is behind the ditching of Chris Christie, former US Attorney for New Jersey, who successfully prosecuted Jared’s father and had him sent to jail.
Is this a new spin on the old saying “The personal is political”? There may yet be more of the same to come.
This new administration may turn out to be the most pro-zionist in US history – and that is saying something!
This site, as far as I understand, grew out of the astonishingly blatant covering for fascism in Ukraine that emerged in The Guardian. It has given a lot of space to correcting the propaganda surrounding that situation.
What about the China situation though? Trump seems to have opened a path away from imminent conflict between USA and Russia, but he regards climate change as a ‘Chinese Hoax’. The military tension between China and US gets scant mention here. Don’t miss Pilger’s film:
I see nothing ‘sane’ about Trump, his policies, the people that he is appointing (Stephen Bannon).
I think people are protesting because, although they do not comprehend the fascism of Clinton, they understand that Hitler was elected democratically.
Hitler was not democratically elected to power, nor did the Nazis ever achieve an absolute majority in the Reichstag. 1932 saw the last legitimate election in Germany: the Nazis got 33% of the vote and 196 seats, the SPD/KDP bloc got 37% of the vote and 221 seats. The rest of the votes were shared out among the smaller parties, of which Zentrum a south German catholic centre party got 12% of the vote and 70 seats.
In order to introduce some semblance in a country which was almost in a state of civil war, the elderly Hindenburg, made Hitler Chancellor. Note Hitler was not elected he was appointed. A bad decision as it turned out. A false flag incident, a fire in the Parliament building – The Reichstag – was blamed on a communist saboteur and Hitler was able to impose what were called the enabling acts. in early 1933. The decree nullified many of the key civil liberties of German citizens. With Nazis in powerful positions in the German government, the decree was used as the legal basis for the imprisonment of anyone considered to be opponents of the Nazis, and to suppress publications not considered “friendly” to the Nazi cause. The decree is considered by historians to be one of the key steps in the establishment of a one-party Nazi state in Germany.
The next general election in March 1933 was carried out with opposition to the Nazis neutralised, banned from standing for elections, having the HQs burnt down and publications also banned. SA militant goon squads – the Brown Terror – were free to roam and commit any outrage on the streets with impunity. (Kiev, Liviv, the Maidan come to mind?) so it was little wonder the Nazi figures in the next election in rose to 44%, but even then they could not obtain and absolute majority and needed to form a government with the Zentrum.
I stand corrected.
I guess my point is that Hitler did not seize power through military force (if we exclude the actions of his supporters at rallies etc.)
My argument is further undermined by the apparent fact that Trump has not WON the election, but rather the fraudsters have determined that he should win. The vote was rigged- massively:
Some say that the comparison with 1930’s Germany is inappropriate for other reasons. However, I am with Chris Hedges on this. The crackdown has started already:
The reason Hitler did not attempt to gain political power through military means was beause he already had tried this option, which failed completely in Munich in 1923. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch.
A lot of people – here and elsewhere – are making assumptions about Trump which based upon little in way of reality.
Right now, I consider him largely to be an enigma. We all know very little about him or his real beliefs.
He is already rowing back from some of his campaign pledges and trying to appear more statesman-like.
We may find ourselves still wondering what he is about even after his inauguration ceremony on 20 January 2017.
I think everyone needs to calm down and stop leaping to assumptions.
It will help everyone’s blood pressure levels if we all do this.
The Sturmabetilung (SA) were certainly using military means in the struggle for National Socialism and carried light arms. In 1932 they numbered 400,000 and by early 1933, 2 million. 20 times the size of the German army allowed by the Treaty of Versailles. They were later disbanded after the Night of the Long Knives, when their leaderaship was wiped out by the newly formed SS Hitler’s Praetorian guard.
In 1932, membership of the Communist Party of Germany was 360,000 according to Catherine Epstein. “The last revolutionaries: German communists and their century”. Harvard University Press, 2003. Pp. 39. – cited as Note 1 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany#cite_note-1.
I believe both the Communists and the Social Democrats had armed members – as well as the Nazis – but I am not sure what the numbers of armed Communists and Social Democrats were.
Hitler relied upon weapons supplied by the Army to carry out his Night of the Long Knives purge, thus implicating the Army in the plot and then introduced a revised personal loyalty oath on all the armed services to him as Fuhrer.
A question that never seems to be asked or answered is why or how was Hitler released from jail early after the failed 1923 Munich Putsch – and why was he not deported? The only possible answer is that he had very powerful friends.
If Hitler had been deported back to Austria, it is conceivable there would have been no World War Two.
I rated you down because a basic education, or failing that a quick look at any history book/site would show you that Hitler was not democratically elected but appointed by default.
Trump was democratically elected US style, i.e. county and states, as opposed to [though still a question] number of votes.
Sexist? Trump has more senior female execs and pays them more than their male counterparts on average. Racist? Trump has execs and employees of all colors in the thousands. He received awards for helping Black youth in New York. Never one complaint when he was a TV star.
He is a successful, alpha White Male. Get used to it. He’ll be here for 8 years, with more Trumps to come. Hillary killed the Kennedy gene, but didn’t see the Trumps coming!
The Bilderberg group picked Clinton to rule as a shill for their NWO/UN ends… Whatever label you want to attach to this scam it still adds up to tyranny. The purple iPod packing zombies on the street “protesting” are paid by the fascist George Soros indirectly. They need to be stopped as this an insurrection…
The day-care generation strikes !
The United States IS a fascist state – obozocare made it a medical fascist state.
These protestors are paid agents provocateurs bussed in by the buss load. See blocks and blocks of parked busses in Chicago.
The title says it all, facts should be sacred, and the picture, the picture of Hillary on one side and Trump on the other, that’s it in a nutshell. It is all about facts: the fact that riots are part of the plan to conquer the world and in so doing get rid of 90 percent of the people on Earth. The picture about appearance, blacks hate the one thing they cannot change, their appearance. Whites are hated not because they are mean to people not white, in fact white people bend over backwards to help and befriend people not white, this too might be a big part of the problem. Too patronizing. White people, a big part of them, have the appearance of the gods, none white people have a much more natural appearance, more like the creatures we all were made from. Except, white people seem to be in appearance different, their eyes, hair, build, intelligence. Actually no big deal unless you are tying to attract a mate, in this white people have all the advantages and for good reason, who wants a child that looks primitive. We want our children to look as human as possible. This reproduction thingy is a really big deal, so, the black girl with her teeth out past her nose is not to happy about the white girls who all the black men lust after. White girls are queens, even fat ones, ugly ones, still that gene, the one that pulls the teeth back into the head, that’s what it is all about. Yeah, yeah, go ahead fool yourself, if you people don’t get it now you never will. Quit patronizing blacks and others because you feel superior to them, they hate that no matter if it is true or not. Black people quit putting yourselves in the same picture with white people, it isn’t going to ever work. Gain knowledge, do the jobs, but keep separate, for, being together only brings pain. Of course the King of the World has an idea to breed us all together, quite a bit in opposition to our creator, for we were made to fill a role and for no other reason. White people were not made to breed with black people or visa versa. We have a function and we if we heed that purpose will find our lives just as fulfilling, just as happy no matter our kind. It is Hollywood, the Talking Head’s on Television, the showoffs, the pretty people, the snakes, that want us to hate each other and treat them special. Hollywood is one big plastic surgery, and breast implant; the Talking Head’s on Television unable to do a days work if they had to. Better segregation than hate, better peace and happiness than equality, better if we just accept the truth and go with it.
This comment has to be one of the most bizarre I have ever read here.
Are you going to let it stay here?
I think its should be removed – permanently.
To paraphrase that well known cliche, it would have been better for Sam to stay quiet and let others think him a fool than to post his comment and remove all doubt.
Yup. And I thought I was confused.
Let it stand. Free speech, remember?
Yes imprimatur….Stet!….let it stand.. it has given confirmation to the scared and the ignorant but, it has also shown fear and ignorance to the confirmed.
There is this cartoon where a guy standing outside of a crowd is shirtless while the people in the crowd are all wearing shirts that say “be yourself”, shouting at the guy “non-conformist”
“White people were not made to breed with black people or visa versa.”
My ancestry is a total mishmosh and so, too, that of my two children, and we all feel pretty great. The fact that the “Races” (however you think you can demarcate these old tribal categories, scientifically) can, in fact, “interbreed,” pretty much settles the question of what they were “made” to do. Yes the pertinent bits seem to fit quite well together, thanks, and they produce the desired results. Perhaps you’re doing it wrong…?
Unlike the others, I completely agree with you. Birds of a feather flock together, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Has nothing to do with “hate” and everything to do with the natural order of things … how we are created, as it were. God made us that way. We are always told “diversity is our strength”, yet I’ve never once heard an explanation of exactly why that is. The races and tribes have never stopped self-segregation in spite of the 50+ years being spoon-fed by social engineers that we must and no one has a problem with it. It was realistically only the white race for whom segregation – the right of association with our own kind in our own communities – was outlawed, but unlike in the centuries past, there will be nowhere left for whites to run once society has collapsed under the weight of “diversity” as is happening in Europe now. I have to wonder, should the King of the World get his way and the white race goes extinct, which group or race, if any, would then finally rise to the occasion to put down the “diverse” culture of violence that has wreaked havoc on America’s cities and schools, once there would be no white “race” left to blame. With Trump’s election, we may have a slight reprieve to get to the work of fixing what ails America. I can only pray the chains of white guilt are finally broken and there are enough blacks who’ve realized they were suckered onto the democratic plantation that we can finally come together and make a noise loud enough to overcome the unnatural social constructionism that began over a half century ago. Birds of a feather do indeed flock together AND that there’s nothing wrong with that.
Yeah!…I know!….I think your deposition has finally shown the non-nazis.. just what a shame it is when cousins get married.
This is a disgusting comment. I say it should be removed.
I was referring to comment from “Sam Nelson”.
It’s a pretty creepy couple of comments, up there, for sure, but I think we should save the deletions for the utterly horrendous (or for luggage spam) because, after all, most of us are here after having had enough of seeing (probably not very creepy) comments disappeared at The Guardian. I, personally, must have wasted my time typing nearly one hundred carefully-considered, ad-hom-free, destined-to-be-vaporized comments at the GU, between 2006 and 2009, so I’m hesitant to advocate comment deletions. Anyway, isn’t it far better to refute creepy nonsense, in the light of day, for all to see, than to hide it away…?
Commenters like “Bob” and “Sam” post hateful, KKKish nonsense as though it’s self-evident, when, in fact, they may as well be talking about “The Flat Earth” or “Paul is Dead and replaced with a Clone” and pitying anyone who “just can’t see it”. So: are such comments merely ignorant, evil or insane? I’m always interested in answers to that question.
Re: “Bob’s” comment:
“The races and tribes have never stopped self-segregation in spite of the 50+ years being spoon-fed by social engineers that we must and no one has a problem with it.”
Having come of age in the ’70s, in various integrated middle class neighborhoods of America’s North(ish) East, I can say that that’s total nonsense; in fact, the opposite is true: it was only after the racist, classist social engineering of Reagan’s post-Weimar 1980s that the trend toward general integration was savagely reversed. Not to mention the devastating introduction of “Crack” (by the CIA: see “Iran/Contra”) to the “inner city”, destroying, demonizing and incarcerating large swathes of America’s Black Population, rendering the question of integration Moot. Now even the drug addictions are segregated: Crack for one group, Meth for another, Prescription Drugs… and so on.
So, no: hardly a Natural Law… more like self-fulfilling prophesies engineered by Old School Racists in Power. And you fell for it, “Bob”! Happily duped. Though I suspect you were probably raised with your nasty views.
Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website, Moon of Alabama and others that exchanged blind loyalty to the Guardian for blind loyalty to RT.com. The contradictions will mount over the next four years. You have painted yourselves into a corner.
“Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website…”
I love the crinkled-lipped arrogance of that “as i have tried to explain…”! Brilliant. But…
…Your comment is Obamaite Nonsense, louisproyect. I’ve encountered hundreds or thousands of racist comments of that ilk over the decades; they’re all stamped from the same old rusty cookie-cooker of sexual envy/ status anxiety and they pre-exist Trump or Putin by a very long time. There are no contradictions between racist commenters and their racist comments while your comments are painting you into the increasingly monotonous corner of the alarmist Obamaite cryptocon shill. Aka the Not-Entirely Useful Idjit.
Are you devastated that HRC’s genocidal undertow was diverted (temporarily) by Trump’s reactionary undertow? And how about the mounting contradictions which rose in the wake of BHO getting the Nobel Peace Prize, in advance, for kids (including Aaron Swartz) he hadn’t even mega-killed yet…? Doesn’t bother you?
RT is just another source of info I have to filter and collate before taking with a grain of salt… very little (if any) “info” these days can be trusted. Any sane, experienced Adult knows this. The plurality of viewpoints and theories are united, at the OffGuardian, not by ideology (I steer well clear of crap from assets like “Alex Jones”, for example) but by a love of posting comments that probably won’t be deleted… a dwindling possibility in “The West’s” sticky old Propaganda Bubble. Not that I’m saying that you should stop spreading it: whatever makes you happy…
“Are you devastated that HRC’s genocidal undertow was diverted (temporarily) by Trump’s reactionary undertow?”
Actually, I wrote in favor of Jill Stein repeatedly but don’t let the truth stand in the way of your febrile ranting.
“Actually, I wrote in favor of Jill Stein…”
That’s very exciting news, louisproyect! That and your remote-temperature-taking abilities… very impressive.
Mr Proyect, your notoriety for being a mouthpiece for extreme Zionist propaganda can only be matched by the raving fruit cake at the elder of ziyon website. Your interpretation of Sam Nelsons comment is as bizarre as it is wrong. I thought Zionists encouraged ‘others’ to integrate while trying to maintain a certain religious purity in one country, in particular. Mr Nelson’s comments are worthless gibberish,, much like your own, however you both have the right to embarrass yourselves as I have the right to laugh at the pair of you.
“Mr Proyect, your notoriety for being a mouthpiece for extreme Zionist propaganda can only be matched by the raving fruit cake at the elder of ziyon website.”
I wasn’t aware that I have been promoting Zionism. I’d ask you to cite my words but I am afraid that someone as illiterate as you would find that too high a mountain to climb.
Ah, yes! Putin and Assad–those well-known state sponsors of eugenics.
By the way, Proyect: shouldn’t you be out protesting Trump or something? I hear Soros is hiring.
“Sam Nelson’s comment is as I have tried to explain a symptom of the reactionary undertow of the Assadist/Putinite politics of this website, Moon of Alabama and others that exchanged blind loyalty to the Guardian for blind loyalty to RT.com. The contradictions will mount over the next four years. You have painted yourselves into a corner.”
I’m beginning to wonder whether Louis Proyect’s friends outside Off-Guardian include Sam Nelson and Bob, as these two posted comments of a type that Louis P must have been dying to extract his two cents’ worth of attention by lambasting Off-Guardian as a blog site that attracts racists and homophobes.
Methinks Louis P jumped in a little too fast there and has thus painted himself into a corner.
As ever LP, better trolling please.
It could be a natural-law Aug if Sam and Bob keep going to family reunions to pick up women.
Har! I forgot about this old thread!
It’s so effing hot here we’re confined to quarters and I’ve just been trolling around all day… Can you see what you can do to get those HAARP jockeys to steer a hurricane this way? before we all die? I think I may have killed binra though…have to wait and see……. sheeeez! it’s %$#&**hot!
The HAARP jockeys have turned ignoring my requests into a badge of honor (or a mission statement), I’m afraid.
Why? Let it stand! Both democracy and intellectual freedom depends 100% on letting unpopular opinions be heard. And many of them have proved correct – Galileo for example, who the Catholic church vowed to burn at the stake. Haven’t you had enough of banned & burned books and propagandised “opinion”? Your opinion of people is so low that they “need” directed “news” and “right think”? Because this is the very definition of the Orwellian state – which (i.e.) is the state of The West at present, and the reason why OffGuardian, among others, exists.
I do not agree with deleting this comment. Censoring does no one any favors, it just shields people from the reality that people are this crazy.
Sam Nelson, you said whites breeding with blacks is “in opposition to our creator”….if your claimed creator is God of the Bible you’re wrong. The verses people who say such ridiculous things always point out as “proof” are never referring to race. They refer to God’s elect family mixing with unbelievers and mixing true doctrine with false doctrine. Not race.
To reiterate this, in the book of Numbers Miriam speaks against Moses, one of the most significant prophets of the Bible, for marrying a (black) Ethiopian woman. God turns Miriam into a leper.
All I know is the Savior Trump told Fox News yesterday that he is not going to hire a special prosecute because he does not want to “hurt the Clintons and that “they are “good people”. He’s backing off on repealing Obamacare and building his wall as well as deporting illegals. Fucking amazing! The election is only a few days old and Trump is already changing his tune on the issues that got him elected! The jokes on us, You fools!
If that’s not bad enough take a look at the people being considered for a Trump administration. Jews, Bankers and politicians. The more things change…. It’s all a fucking game.
You’re taking too much stock in media reporting. People being in media-announced meetings, and people actually being considered are two different things. Not one thing has ACTUALLY happened except Bannon, and that was brilliant.
“Jews, Bankers and politicians.”
What, letting the homosexuals off easy? It is them who are eroding the fiber of the manly republic more than anybody. Just ask David Duke.
I think it’s hilarious! The “protesters” think they’re some kind of movement. What are their goals? Do they think they’ll win an election “do-over”? It just underscores the fact that they don’t understand the system at all. Not to mention the protests are fake. I’ve seen all the ads.
Fuck Hillary’s vagina. Oh, wait…
First off I would like to thank you for expressing what many people are asking: what are they protesting about anyways? Next I would like to say, instead of guessing what Trump will and will not do, why not wait and see? Why not support the person who we the people elected, instead of dissing them before they are even sworn into office and put their feet up on the desk?
Great Article! I’ve been asking the same question for the last several days. Even the “protesters” can’t explain (cogently) what they’re protesting – that makes them agitators in my book… some are paid agitators… a la Ukraine. I hope this is NOT the direction we are heading.
Marx had a term for such persons: lumpenproletariat.
There is some interesting content on this term at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat.
These people are also known as horizontalists, in that they can only unite locally on a very narrow local basis.
Their real revolutionary potential – like the Occupy Movement – verges on being zero.
If they seriously want real political change, they will have to engage in the long, often tedious, process of getting involved in real political activity, i.e. get inside an existing political party and work inside it for years to change its policies towards those they want to see. Alternatively, start a new party and build it up over time to the point where it will become a real alternative to the Establishment parties; this could take years, if not decades.
Simply yelling your head off in the street and baiting a well-armed police will not achieve anything worthwhile.
Anyone that believes or even suspects President-elect Trump and former Secretary of State Hillery Clinton have diametrically opposite objectives in their efforts are making a SERIOUS mistake.
Everyone needs to research the Counsel On Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission, and how BOTH groups are the actual leaders of every step taken by all so-called ‘government’, and YES…both are absolute stones of foundation elevating President-elect Trump.
Maybe this factual information will give everyone a clue that honestly reveals the objective foundations holding up all world government.
Make NO MISTAKE: satan (intentionally lower-case) the devil rules this world. Please…I ask everyone reading this comment…read I Timothy chapter 6. It’s time to know where you stand, or where you will fall.
Please be careful & enjoy your day.
Where is my comment? And you are complaining about the censorship at The Guardian?
You are making multiple versions of your comments under different identities. The replications have been deleted.
I’m P. Gervais from Québec, Canada, I’m not using multiple identity nor posted the same comment multiple time! What you are doing right now is the same bullshit than killary accusing Russia of hacking her emails! Please, stop ridiculing your self!
And know, I urge you to prove your accusation!!!
“know” -> “now”
if your readers are interested by the point of view of some those protesters:
Let’s just make the point that people should have the right to protest peacefully against a Government, even if that Government has not yet taken power and – with greater relevance to this excellent article – has yet to outline its policies. I suspect that, if they were allowed to get away with it, both Trump and Clinton would like to curtail the right to demonstrate.
And if the article contained the suggestion that people DO NOT have the right to protest your “point” might be less manipulative and dishonest.
ignoratio elenchi admin…it can be deliberate and reactionary.
Don’t get me wrong- there are many issues that are worthy of protest, but twice now in recent months, people, many ostensibly of the left, have taken to the streets to protest about the results of either elections or referendums.
Frankly, I feel uncomfortable about that.
Your principle of pre-emption goes down awfully well with neo-conservatives.
The problem is that pro-Clinton supporters are not protesting peacefully and in many cases have attacked and beaten people thought to be (whether correctly or not) Trump supporters.
CNN interviewed one such protester who proclaimed that people on both sides had to die for what she believed was right.
Also one has to ask how did the protests break out suddenly in so many places around the country with the same slogans. One also has to ask who is placing advertisements on Craiglist for people to participate in the protests with the promise of payment.
There has also been news that buses are bringing protesters into cities to participate in rioting.
If this all sounds quite familiar, it should: I suppose all we need now are the unknown snipers hiding in buildings to kill police and protesters alike.
Soros – eminence grise par excellence….
The face of evil.
if Hillary or anyone were to ‘drone’ anyone, as she said re Assange I think the world would be much better if it was Soros and his whole evil poisonous cabal.
What, drone themselves? :))
Pay attention folks…I can only do this trick once.
Some commenters here and elsewhere are suggesting that George Soros is funding these street protests.
Whether or not that is true only time may tell.
I am deeply concerned that the growth of single issue campaigning has led to a situation where the left has become hopelessly fractured, whilst the likes of Hillary Clinton can pay lip service to some of those issues yet pursue agendas that threaten the world.
I’m relieved that Trump has gained the presidency and saddened that those who are now rioting fail to understand why he did. He may well let down those have been dispossessed thanks to globalisation, but it does look as if, as the author says, World War three might well have been postponed.
So for now two cheers for President Elect Trump!
Pathetic diatribe and Hyperbole . Suggest the author gets in the real world and asks folks why they are expressing their anger in the streets.
You gotta wonder at the state of masculinity when all its responses to HC standing for POTUS is misogyny and down right character assassination.
You got Trump guys now suck it up and Stop using HC as click bait for your own impotence.
How sexist of you to assume this was written by a man. Typical of the reactionary and conformist mindset that lies beneath the facade of identity politics.
Since you apparently know why “the folks” are “expressing their anger in the streets” – maybe you could tell us yourself rather than suggest we ask someone else?
The “Trump guys” won. You losers are the ones that have to suck it up. You remind me of Valerie Jarrett, from a rich family and joining the Obama White House in 2008, declaring that they must “speak truth to power” conveniently overlooking, in leftist fashion, that they were the power. Leftists want power but want to be perceived as powerless upstarts. They are eternal adolescents.
Leftists have a remarkable ability to elude reality and create their own. From what I hear you would need a chain saw to cut through the smugness and virtue signalling throughout the upper west coast where conditions are less tenuous than in much of the country.. You need to get out of your comfort zone and find out why Trump’s rallies drew tens of thousands and HRC could barely pull a few dozen.
In New Orleans, the street protesters/rioters daubed highly offensive graffiti on a Robert E. Lee monument which included an Anarchist symbol and the words ‘Black Power’ and ‘Die Whites Die’.
What do any of these have to do with a protest against Trump?
As for treatment for Post Trump Depressive Disorder (PTSD) – how stupidly absurd !!!!
The changes already noted by theduran commentators in Syria as a result of Trump’s victory debunk any view that Clinton was other than the greater evil as a real threat to foment global war. The other favourable development is the apparent end of the “trade pacts” which are bigger threats to domestic governance than what Trump proposes. His mind might possibly change on global warming, while the extra-legal arbitration tribunals would effectively block any substantive efforts on the global warming problem used by democratic propagandists to distinguish themselves from Trump. The fact that Soros’ pawprints are all over the unrest through craigslist offers to pay the protesters and through the roles of organisations he funds exposes the entire effort as a colour revolution type destabilisation effort. The faux leftists being paid, or convinced by nonstop propaganda are part and parcel of the same process which neutered the grauniad and created the necessity of this website. Those demonstrating are useful idiots supporting a fraudulent movement which is hostile to the rule of law and, in the end, life itself, since it represents globalist imperialism.
All of the Left is infested with this mindless PC BS, whilst (as they have done for decades) ignoring the concerns of ordinary people – the ones they are supposed to fight for.
I am a leftie of decades-long duration, and have been (and still am) active in both a mainstream left party and more fringe organizations (in my youth) and their mindset is depressingly familiar; a retreat into MSM world-view BS, dogma and identity and gender politics-based name-calling.
It’s pathetic and revolting – no respect for the people and their aspirations; they love democracy as long as they get the result ‘they’ want.
The reaction to the Brexit vote, Trump and others is pathetic and repulsive. People want hope and the possibility of change for the better – and if the only option on the table is Brexit, Trump, Le Pen then they will take it and be damned.
People need to be given better options than a sellout like Sanders etc.
If HC-lovers, remainers et al want to know who is responsible for the rise in populists like Trump and Farage and Le Pen then they should look in the mirror – where were they for the last 25 years??????
Would be nice if the Left could actually connect with ordinary people (like we used to!!!) and what they want rather being constantly distracted and controlled by this ID and gender BS.
OK – minorities issues etc are important, I accept that – but on a scale of 1-10 for ordinary people they are about a 2 or 3, whereas jobs, healthcare, no more war etc are all 9’s or 10’s.
And their lack of respect for democracy and the popular vote is frankly disgusting.
It’s a shame that they get their views of geopolitics from a dead guy’s dogma and things like the guardian; wish they learned to think for themselves instead of retreating back to ‘what Trotsky said’ etc – their ‘safe space’.
Some of it is likely planned but much is down to media hysteria. Of course the chattering class morons and talking heads off CNN et al aren’t going to go on the streets and get a criminal record for being an idiot. They’re busy lunching and letting Yes men do it for them.
After Brexit happened in the UK the so called Liberal media were running with claims that racism was now rife, scrambling to report on racist graffiti, skewed statistics and some very dubious incidents. The Guardian were literally pleading to racist groups to become emboldened and start doing shit. They’re running the same bullshit with Trump winning in the US.
Just to clarify, I’m not a Trump supporter.
Of course Clinton isn’t better than trump, but sanders might be…. as for brexit, of course there was a rise in open racism as the nuckle dragging racists saw brexit as a green light to come out. You will see the same thing with trump, his win will embolden the nuckle draggers.
Anyone with a brain and social conscience will understand that his win as with brexit, was a scream from the socially disadvantaged, the losers of what is becoming the norm, inequality. Inequality is growing, and is driven by the messed up version of capitalism we hold up as necessary, and the equally messed up version of economics that we follow.. One day we will understand that people are more important than stuff, and caring for the disadvantaged is more important than corporations, and that constant growth on a finite planet is impossible. I hope. Then again maybe I’m wrong, and the nuckle draggers are right…….
‘A scream from the socially disadvantaged’ Yes, I’ll buy that.
‘His win will embolden the knuckle draggers’ Are these the socially disadvantaged knuckle draggers or the unsocially disdvantaged knuckle draggers?
There was a rise in incidents during the time of the campaigning thanks to an ever more xenophobic press but no proof that suddenly the Brown shirts were on the streets right after Brexit won. This was being claimed literally hours after the result on nothing more than hearsay. For the US they keep banding about graffiti which says ‘Make America White Again’, which is what anti-Trump supporters used in memes. And as if racist graffiti or incidents didn’t exist before. That isn’t about fighting racism, that’s fake liberal shit stirring, all about vanity and nothing else.
We should be asking ourselves how did these protests suddenly spring up in so many cities around the US after the presidential elections and these protests being outstanding more for their violence against perceived Trump supporters than for a clear agenda or for peaceful tactics demonstrating creative and original thinking. We should be asking if protesters are being bussed from areas far from where they are protesting and if they are being paid to protest and carry out violent actions.
So it is!
„US Elections are Over, Trump Won: Will He be President in Face of Neocon Power?“: https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/us-elections-are-over-trump-won-will-he-be-president-in-face-of-neocon-power/
Of course, but I have one quibble. We don’t have proto-fascism; we have total fascism: a more complete police state than Nazi Germany, more corporatism than Italy or Germany, more imperialism than Germany, Italy, and Great Britain combined, more wars of aggression. We’ve had it for more than 16 years. It just took that long to close the circle. Fred Hampton said it in 1969 before he was murdered by the US SS (aka the FBI & Chicago Police).
And now Soros is going to get you little civil war. Make sure CNN is the last thing you guys blow up so we, the rest of the world (you know those who are not exceptional or indispensable), can watch it. Longer it takes – better 🙂
You can’t put all the protesters in one bag. First, those who are in the streets are blowing off steam. They don’t need an aim. They just need to blow off steam. Second, most of those out in the streets, and even those who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary but are not in the streets, voted against Trump and not for Hillary. And yes, for the world, Trump might be better, but for Americans, Trump is much, much worse. Put aside all the ideology and the intellectual arguments about Republican and Democrats being two wings of the same bird of prey, and there is in fact a stark difference. The racist, misogynist, xenophobic candidate and his followers won and this is a huge setback for those fighting for equality and social justice. Even Lenin talked about two steps forward and one step backwards. Well, maybe Clinton wasn’t any step forward, but Trump is 10 steps backward.
JOBS and no WW3 tend to be bigger factors for 98% of the population than identity, race and gender politics.
Also people are sick of being policed in terms of words and thoughts.
20 years ago someone tried to end my career and take away my livelihood , all because someone gave a stressball shaped like a boob for my birthday and left it on my desk for a joke (without telling me).
A senior PC Feminazi visiting from the US saw it, carpeted me, and then spent 2 hours on the phone to my boss in London trying to terminate me with a ‘gross misconduct’ reference to end my career.
My boss told her to fuck off (exact words) – and rightly so.
Since then (understandably) I have developed a loathing for PC/gender/ID fanatics.
The SJW’s and PC brigade have acted as extremely intolerant thought police for decades.
they have failed to learn the lessons of 1905 and 1917 – autocratic rule breeds rebellion.
This has been coming for decades and was inevitable; thanks to the totalitarianism of PC and the SJWs and their militancy. The right have pushed back and then some.
Less militancy and real attempts to connect with people could have prevented this
The Electoral College should be viewed from the perspective of those living in a very large federal system not a normal nation state. It may seem not absolutely undemocratic, but how democratic is the EU by comparison?
More at: https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/trumps-victory-should-not-obfuscate-election-fraud/
The name Soros seems to be popping up behind all the chaos – after all, it’s easier to undermine a country when it is internally conflicted. The Americans should be happy with this result as it gives them a good reason to spruce up their democracy to eh, um, democracy
What goes around – comes around. G. Soros turning to be another USA Osama Bin Laden. Caliphate of Chaos is getting (not enough) taste of their “regime change”. Go on – start a bloody civil war like in Ukraine. You can even use some of your nukes if you wish – to nuke each other. What makes these CORRUPT and UNEDUCATED (yes, they do have diplomas and they can use them in their toilets) believe they are PROGRESSIVE? Take a bloody dictionary morons and see what is “progressive”.
I am just loving this. Should we, the rest of the world, start arming American “progressives”? Come on – I am all for it. 🙂