A few weeks ago we reported that, according to the Italian Institute of Health (ISS), only 12% of Italy’s reported Covid19 deaths actually listed Covid19 as the cause of death.
Given that 99% of them had at least one serious co-morbidity (and that 80% of them had two such diseases) this raised serious questions as to the reliability of Italy’s reported statistics.
Prof Walter Ricciardi, advisor to Italy’s health minister, explained this was caused by the “generous” way the Italian government handles death certificates:
The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
Essentially, Italy’s death registration process does not differentiate between those who simply have the virus in their body, and those who are actually killed by it.
Given the amount of fear and panic Italy’s comparatively alarming numbers caused around the world, you would think other nations would be eager to avoid these same mistakes.
Surely all the other countries of the world are employing rigorous standards for delineating who has, and has not, fallen victim to the pandemic, right?
In fact, rather than learning from Italy’s example, other countries are not only repeating these mistakes but going even further.
In Germany, for example, though overall deaths and case-fatality ratio are far lower than Italy’s, their public health agency is still engaging in similar practice.
On March 20th the President of Germany’s Robert Koch Institute confirmed that Germany counts any deceased person who was infected with coronavirus as a Covid19 death, whether or not it actually caused death.
This totally ignores what Dr Sucharit Bhakdi calls the vital distinction between “infection” and “disease”, leading to stories such as this, shared by Dr Hendrik Streeck:
In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that was without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics.
How many “Covid19 deaths” in Germany, fall into this bracket? We don’t know, and will likely never know.
But at least Germany is actually limiting itself to test positive cases.
In the United States, a briefing note from the CDC’s National Vital Statistics Service read as follows [our emphasis]:
It is important to emphasise that Coronavirus Disease 19, or Covid-19, should be reported for all decedents where the disease caused or is presumed to have caused or contributed to death.
“Presumed to have caused”? “Contributed”? That’s incredibly soft language, which could easily lead to over-reporting.
The referenced detailed “guidance” was released April 3rd, and is no better [again, our emphasis]:
In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.
Are careful records being kept to separate “Covid-19” from “presumed Covid-19”? Are the media making sure they respect the distinction in their reporting?
Whenever the alleged casualties are referenced we are fed one large all-inclusive number, without context or explanation, which – thanks to lax reporting guidelines – could be entirely false.
Government agencies all across the UK are doing the same thing.
Northern Ireland’s HSC Public Health Agency is releasing weekly surveillance bulletins on the pandemic, in those reports they define a “Covid19 death” as:
individuals who have died within 28 days of first positive result, whether or not COVID-19 was the cause of death
NHS England’s Office of National Statistics releases weekly reports on nation-wide mortality. Its latest report (Week 12 – March 14th-20th) was released on March 31st and made special mention of Covid19, explaining they were going to change the way they report the numbers in future.
The ONS system is predicated on the registration of deaths. Meaning they count, not the number of people who die every week, but the number of deaths registered per week. This, naturally, leads to slight delays in the recording of numbers as the registration process can take a few days.
However, with coronavirus deaths, since its a “national emergency”, they are now including “provisional figures” which will be “included in the dataset in subsequent weeks”. This leaves them wide open to – either accidentally or deliberately – reporting the same deaths twice. Once “provisionally”, and then once “officially” a week later.
That’s just one peculiar policy decision. There are many others.
Up until now, the ONS reported those Covid19 numbers collated by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The DHSC records only those who died in hospital and have tested positive for the coronavirus as Covid19 deaths.
BUT, from now on, the ONS will also include Covid19 deaths “in the community” in their statistics. That “includes those not tested for Covid19” and where “suspected Covid19″ [our emphasis] is presumed to be a “contributory factor”.
Here are some screencaps of the relevant sections:
The official NHS guidance for doctors filling out death certificates is just as vague [our emphasis]:
if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.
The government is telling doctors it is OK to list “Covid-19” as a cause of death when there is literally no evidence the deceased was infected. That means there are potentially huge numbers of “Covid19 deaths” that were never even tested for the disease.
Further, any possible mistakes will never be noticed or rectified, thanks to recent changes to the law.
Usually, any death attributed to a “notifiable disease” had to be referred to a coroner for a jury hearing.
Under UK law Covid19 is a “notifiable disease”, but the new Coronavirus Bill alters the Coroners and Justice Act 2009, to specifically exempt alleged Covid19 deaths from jury inquests.
Further, according to the office of the Chief Coroner, the Coronavirus Bill means that these deaths don’t have to be referred to a coroner at all, and that medical practitioners can sign off a cause of death for a body they have never even seen:
Any registered medical practitioner can sign an MCCD [Medical Certificate for Cause of Death], even if the deceased was not attended during their last illness and not seen after death, provided that they are able to state the cause of death to the best of their knowledge and belief.
Deaths “in the community” can be listed as Covid19 deaths without being tested for the disease, or even seen by a doctor at all. These deaths will not necessarily be referred to a coroner, and certainly not heard by a jury.
By enacting this legislation the UK government has not only made false reporting of Covid19 deaths more likely, they actively removed the safeguards designed to correct it. Recording accurate fatality numbers in this situation is borderline impossible.
This is, at best, totally irresponsible and at worst incredibly sinister.
Now, before you roll your eyes at the whacky alternate media and their crazy paranoia, the idea deaths are being over-estimated is not a fringe concept or a “conspiracy theory”. It is actually addressed in the mainstream frequently, people just seem to not hear it, drowned out as it is by the fear-inducing headlines.
Dr John Lee, a professor of pathology and retired consulting pathologist with the NHS, wrote in a column for the Spectator:
Why Covid-19 deaths are a substantial over-estimate
Many UK health spokespersons have been careful to repeatedly say that the numbers quoted in the UK indicate death with the virus, not death due to the virus – this matters.
This nuance is crucial – not just in understanding the disease, but for understanding the burden it might place on the health service in coming days. Unfortunately, nuance tends to be lost in the numbers quoted from the database being used to track Covid-19
This data is not standardised and so probably not comparable, yet this important caveat is seldom expressed by the (many) graphs we see. It risks exaggerating the quality of data that we have.
In fact, Dr Lee goes out of his way to emphasise:
The distinction between dying ‘with’ Covid-19 and dying ‘due to’ Covid-19 is not just splitting hairs.
The BBC dealt with the same issue in an article on April 1st [again, emphasis ours]:
The death figures being reported daily are hospital cases where a person dies with the coronavirus infection in their body – because it is a notifiable disease cases have to be reported.
But what the figures do not tell us is to what extent the virus is causing the death.
It could be the major cause, a contributory factor or simply present when they are dying of something else.
These absurd rules contributed to this recent example, referenced in the BBC article, but not widely reported at the time:
An 18-year-old in Coventry tested positive for coronavirus the day before he died and was reported as its youngest victim at the time. But the hospital subsequently released a statement saying his death had been due to a separate “significant” health condition and not connected to the virus.
This story is completely true. The boy was widely reported as the UK’s “youngest coronavirus victim” on March 24th, before the hospital issued a statement saying:
[The hospital] had tested for COVID-19 on the day before he died, but this was not linked to his reason for dying.
Despite the hospital correcting the press, the case was still being reported in the tabloids a week later on March 31st.
However, the important detail here is being lost: Going by the current NHS rules, despite the hospital officially saying it was not his cause of death, this boy is still part of the official coronavirus fatality statistics.
How many more people fit that profile? We will never know.
Italy, Germany, the United States, Northern Ireland and England.
That’s five different governments, across four countries, all essentially saying it’s OK to just assume a patient died of Covid19, and then add that to the official statistics.
Is that really responsible practice during a potential pandemic?
Are any other countries doing the same?
To what extent can we trust any official death statistics at all, at this point?
As Dr Lee points out, Covid19 is not a disease that presents with a unique – or even rare – collection of symptoms. The range of severity and type of presentation is in line with literally dozens of extremely common respiratory infections.
You cannot see “fever” and “cough” and then diagnose “probable covid19” with even the slightest chance of accuracy.
This has become one of those nuggets of information we all know by heart, but between 290000 and 650000 people die of flu, or “flu like illness”, every year. If just 10% of those cases are incorrectly assumed to be “probable” coronavirus infections, then the fatality numbers are totally useless.
At a time when good, reliable information is key to saving lives and preventing mass-panic, global governments are pursuing policies which make it near-impossible to collect that data, whilst stoking public fear.
Due to these policies, the simple fact is we have no reliable way of knowing how many people have died from this coronavirus. We have no hard data at all. And governments and international organisations are going out of their way to keep it that way.
It’s time we started asking why.
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So, if a person who gets hit by a car dies, but they had covid-19, they [a] died of Covid-19 or [b] died of being seriously injured by a vehicle?
Even here it is overstated. the evidence that they
Is soley on the basis of notoriously unreliable and manipulable tests. Need a few more covid stiffs? just run the RT-HCR a few more cycles.
they are using the OVER-estimated figures to fuel fear which is then used to force quarantines for likely what is going to be at least 1.5 years (while a vaccine is produced), then eventually they will force mandatory vaccination for ALL. but that vaccine, created in haste, is likely not going to be sufficiently ready, even in 18 months. So be prepared to be locked in for up to 3 years and to be forcefully vaccinated.
the only way out is herd immunity – we need to return to our normal level of daily exposure to TRILLIONS of germs and bacteria and viruses floating around everywhere. our bodies are the ultimate vaccination cauldron. our immune systems adapt and fight, creating necessary antibodies… we should not quarantine entire populations, only a subset who are at high risk due to compromised immune systems. otherwise be ready – whenever the masses get to reunite again – for a lot of new infections.
what people seem to fail to realize is that ultimately the number of infected and dead will be nearly the same! it’s just that with the quarantine we are going to take years instead of weeks to get there… you will argue that is why we NEED to be vaccinated. i will argue that is exactly THE point. that is the end game conclusion they want YOU the masses to come to: that there is no way out unless you take their mandatory vaccine.
this is more than about one virus and one situation. if this attempt at global domination of the masses is successful, and the masses like lambs to the slaughter willingly and wantonly submit – we are all forever phuct. this is a test to gauge how exactly to mass manipulate the globe and so far it is going off without a hitch – the masses are even policing each other! they are encouraging others to submit and self imprison. they frown on those who are trying to call the bluff on this overhyped hysteria. the world is under lockdown, waiting for the masters to tell them what to do next.
and what is next dear sheep, is staying locked down until the vaccine – at least 2 years away. even then, not everyone everywhere will get the same vaccine. you cant produce genetic material the way you do televisions or cars. not all vaccines will be the same nor necessarily even effective. especially the generic mass produced vaccine “we” will get, versus the one the tom hanks’s and boris yeltsin’s of the world will get. vaccines will not be a magic cure all. but we wont be allowed back in if we dont get them – that is what FORCED means.
we are on a dangerous path to god knows waht. wherever it is, it can’t be good. wake up people, please.
So what can people do even if they are awake? And what will you do?. The only solution I see is mass disobedience…
All this shit is consequences of infinite growth consequence of the type of money creation by credits granted by private commercial banks with interest and credit insurance.
To get out of this scheme, there would be a solution and it would be to create money completely differently:
Wouldn’t it be ideal to have an alternative currency co-created equally by us humans, free of charge perceived as a universal dividend, without intermediaries, without banks predatory of the common good that is money ?
Yes ?… well it already exists, it’s free currency Ğ1! A original international money from France. https://monnaie-libre.fr/
Free your mind, free your money.
Monero is a good option
Right on stinx and, written last May, way ahead of the game!
In the UK, the guidance states ‘COVID-19 can be put on the death certificate on clinical balance of probabilities WITHOUT testing’!
You disappoint me. No mention of Scotland
Actually, absolutely yes – at least for the first question..
In ICD-10, which is used to encode diseases and conditions, “Covid-19” and “presumed Covid-19” have two separate codes – U07.1 and U07.2
This encoding is used to encode MCCD – Medical Certificates of Cause of Death in the UK.
As with many conditions, when reporting on the codes they are often merged into larger categories to present a less fragmented picture of the causes of death. However, they are distinguished in the underlying raw data and therefore can be distinguished simply by going to the raw data and slicing up the cake in a different way.
As to whether the media are respecting the distinction in their reporting, it depends on the media outlet. The media are not a single entity. You can certainly see that institutions like the BBC and the high-end UK newspapers (and other institutions I don’t consume much news from) are being very care in what phrases they use. Other parts of the media, less so.
So, how do you get the raw data then, please ? Do you know ?
“Contact details for this statistical bulletin
Telephone: +44 (0)1633 456 490″
Not having any much luck fetching the data as I cynically suspected though o well…
Strange – sorry you’ve not had much luck.
I’ve also tracked down the Scottish equivalent report, produced by the National Records of Scotland (NRS) department and wrote to them asking for some extra background information and got a reply back within 24 hours.
If you’re interested, the Scottish report is here: https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/covid19/covid-deaths-report-week-16.pdf
I found [email protected] very responsive and very helpful.
Hello Again ! Thankyou for your information-linked reply. I do wish the report was in plain English, however. I am not familiar with the difference between an ‘underlying’ cause of death and just a cause of death. I go to the blue section subtitled ‘What do we mean by “Underlying Cause of Death”?’ After reading it I realise that nowhere does it state what indeed they mean by UNDERLYING cause of death (rather than simply ’cause of death’). Please are you familiar with this term ? Could you explain the difference ?
Often, in a death there is a chain of things that happens which ultimately ends in the death. The underlying cause of death is the thing at the head of the chain, that caused the person to die at that time. Say that you have asthma, which will not kill you. Say that you catch Covid-19, develop pneumonia and die. The immediately cause of death is pneumonia, but the direct reason you caught pneumonia was the Covid-19; the asthma was a contributory factor but didn’t directly lead to you catching either Covid-19 or getting pneumonia. As Covid-19 is the first thing in the direct chain, it is the underlying cause of death in this case.
If instead you died of a heart attack, Covid-19 might be a contributory reason why you didn’t survive the heart attack, but if it didn’t cause you to have the heart attack, it would not be the underlying cause of death but a contributory condition.
In practice, for those deaths where Covid-19 is mentioned on the death certificate, it is the underlying cause of death in 96% percent of cases.
sorry it didn’t show your reply, I see you’ve already answered…
You’re informative answer has me burning the midnight oil–I must say this system of reporting covid-19 killing someone based on it being an underlying cause seems very open to abuse. To take the example you give of someone developing pneumonia and dying who is first diagnosed covid, how do you know that the “direct” reason they caught pneumonia was the covid ? After all, people do catch pneumonia anyway, and it was that that killed them…..
Underlying cause I believe now means in this case the disease which led to a chain of events which culminated in the victims death. Is this correct ?
right, except they are being told (in america at least) to code it as covid without confirmation:
Thanks for this new info. Luckily eventually found your reply in my junk-mail folder. Disgusting that ‘dying from’-figures are being encouraged to be reported on an ‘assuming’ as the first paper shows. Haven’t started with the second link yet. And isn’t it interesting that this Charles Gaskell stops talking to me when I ask how you can know that covid is the “direct” cause of the illness which did end these people …
I think this is a case where events have proved some of the assertions in the article incorrect. If anything, Covid-19 deaths on death certificates are being under reported rather than over reported and it’s sad to see this article being used to help justify the claim that the severity of Covid-19 is a hoax. Look at the total numbers of deaths in week 14 (week ending 5th April – the date of this article) and the increase in numbers of deaths from the previous week, and the excess above the average numbers of deaths in week 14.
Where I struggle is in your interpretation of the facts, rather than the facts themselves (which is quite unusual!).
I’d forgotten about the normal requirement to notify the coroner of death by a notifiable disease. But the reason for that is to make the coroner’s office aware early on of diseases that may have an impact on society, so that action can be taken. Given that the coroner’s office is now well aware of the disease and is tracking and gathering stats about it, there seems to be little reason for it to be repeatedly notified to the coroner’s office. I don’t think that the reason they give stands up to scrutiny.
I need to track down the Coronavirus Act, but the loosening of the rules about who can fill in the MCCD I believe will apply to all causes of death, not just Covid-19, which still remains at the moment the minority of deaths. My guess is that removing the requirement for the person signing the medical certificate of cause of death to have seen the patient within the last 48 hours of life was in case the country was swamped with deaths and there were not enough doctors able to fill them all in, or that the doctor attending the patient may themselves now be in quarantine with Covid-19. I would expect that in the normal course of events, normal practice would continue. Is their evidence that at the moment this is not happening?
In a later article “criminalising & pathologising dissent”, you end up by saying: “Major real world physical threats don’t need PR departments and censorship to convince people of their danger. They don’t need falsely inflated fatality stats achieved by flagrant manipulation of the data.” I agree – and don’t think they are.
Unfortunately, the article they used to back up this suggestion of falsely inflated fatality stats (this one!) dates from 5th April which is also, as it happens, the end of week 14 in 2020. Statistics released 11 days later by ONS show an enormous spike in deaths from all causes in week 14 (an increase of over 5000, and about 6000 more than the average for week 14). The total number of deaths where Covid-19 is either the underlying cause of death or a secondary cause of death in week 14 in England and Wales was slightly over 3000 – meaning that there were nearly 2000 extra deaths that week allegedly unconnected to Covid-19. This in itself is a large (and unexpected) increase and may well point to an UNDER-reporting of Covid-19-related deaths rather than an OVER-reporting – if Covid-19 didn’t have a major role in the death of those 2000 people, what did??
This article is badly in need of updating to reflect the latest statistics.
In an attempt to discredit this article you make a bold assertion that far from Covid-19 deaths being over-reported, “Covid-19 deaths on death certificates are being under reported”. You then supply zero evidence to support your claim. You then discuss the excess deaths in Week 14, and say that the total number of deaths where Covid 19 is either “the underlying cause of death, or secondary cause of death as being just over 3000”. Where do you get the idea that just because Covid 19 is mentioned on the death certificate it is conclusive proof that Covid 19 was either the “underlying cause of death or secondary cause of death”? In fact, where did you source that quote from?
All the ONS say in respect of Week 14 is that of those 3475 deaths, Covid 19 was simply “mentioned on the death certificate”. Nick Stripe of the ONS says, “the figure includes all mentions of COVID-19 on the death certificate, including suspected COVID-19”.
What is the process for coming to the conclusion that a death by Covid 19 might be “suspected”, and then declared as such on the death certificate? The new rules state that when a person suffering a terminal illness dies in hospital, and is later found to be infected with Covid 19, Covid 19 must be recorded on the death certificate irrespective of whether or not Covid 19 caused the death. This then enters into media mythology as a Covid 19 death.
What are the new death certificate rules when a person ‘dies in the community”. The new rules say that even though the doctor filling in the certificate may not have know or indeed even seen the patient – he or she is allowed to determine the cause of death simple by telephoning a relative, a carer or even the undertaker, and if that person says the deceased had a cough before dying, the doctor is encouraged, or coached, by the new rules to write Covid 19 on the death certificate.
The new rules present clear opportunities for deaths to be logged as Covid 19 deaths when they are nothing of the sort.
You then suggest that because nearly half the excess deaths for week 14 were not recorded as Covid 19 deaths, they must be unrecorded Covid 19 deaths. You never stopped to consider that these non-Covid 19 excess deaths might be caused by the NHS focussing on Covid 19 and consequently failing to properly care for patients suffering from other chronic conditions. Particularly in light of the fact that due to the NHS turfing the sick and infirm out of hospital in readiness for ‘the surge’, it was reported that in Week 14 the NHS had four times the number of empty beds than normal for that time of year (HSJ journal 13th April).
To highlight this worsening situation, Richard Sullivan, a professor of cancer and global health at King’s College London and director of its Institute of Cancer Policy, last week said: “The number of deaths due to the disruption of cancer services is likely to outweigh the number of deaths from the coronavirus itself over the next five years. The cessation and delay of cancer care will cause considerable avoidable suffering. Cancer screening services have stopped, which means we will miss our chance to catch many cancers when they are treatable and curable, such as cervical, bowel and breast. We need an urgent exit strategy and an effective, integrated and intelligent approach to get the lockdown lifted in a controlled manner in order to get time-critical patients like those with cancer back into the system. We need to do this as fast as possible”.
On 6th April Dr Malcom Kendrick wrote in his blogpost that NHS England had issued a warning that the focus on Covid 19 could ‘do more harm than virus’ and efforts must be made to identify patients “who may not have the virus but may be at risk of significant harm or death because they are missing vital appointments or not attending emergency departments, with both the service and public so focused on covid-19.”
Dr Kendrick then writes, “Last week, in Intermediate Care, we sent two patients into the local hospital who were seriously ill. They were both sent back almost immediately. They both died. Yes, they were ill, and may have died anyway. But I believe they should both have been admitted, and treated, and they could both still be alive”. Dr Kendrick says they died because of the focus on COVID.
And need I mention the number of incidents where health care providers were found to be coercing elderly and vulnerable people into signing non-resuscitation agreements on the pretext that this would prevent the NHS from coming under strain at this time of crisis? We will never know how many premature deaths that course of action caused. (Guardian report 1st April)
So it seems that every aspect of your complaint against this article is unsupported by the facts, and instead of the article needing rewriting your complaint against it needs rewriting.
First of all, apologies, I confused the end date of week 14 – it is 3rd April, not the 5th April
I “got the idea” from reading the ONS Mortality Statistics in England and Wales QMI , the ONS User Guide to Mortality Statistics and by looking at a sample MCCD (Medical Certificate of Cause of Death). If you look at the form, you will see that the only place that Covid-19 can be mentioned is either in section I(a), I(b), I(c) or II – taken together, these provide the “underlying cause of death”, as detailed by ONS, and any “secondary causes of death”, also as discussed by the ONS. The article above uses the phrases ‘dying “of” Covid-19’ and ‘dying “with” Covid-19’ – it’s the same concept.
I got the data from ONS’s Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional: week ending 3 April 2020 – which has now be superseded by a new version here. In week 14, there were 16,387 deaths in total, from all causes. There were 3,475 deaths classified as involving Covid-19 and 2,367 deaths classified as involving influenza and pneumonia (not caused by Covid-19). The average number of deaths for week 14 over the previous five years (2014-2019) from any cause is 10,305. The average number of deaths for week 14 for deaths classified as involving influenza and pneumonia is 2,064. The equivalent number of “Covid-19 related deaths” in week 13 is 539, and the total number of deaths from any cause in week 13 was 11,141.
When I said “just over 3000”, I was referring to that 3,475 figure from ONS. Perhaps I should have said “just under 3500”, but I was being conservative and rounding down.
The process is that the doctor signing the death certificate uses their best judgment to assess the likely cause of death, based on the evidence they have. If the evidence they have points towards Covid-19, in the absence of anything else, then it makes sense that they will enter “suspected Covid-19”. This is the case with any disease where there hasn’t been a definitive test carried out. If the evidence points to a heart attack, but definitive testing hasn’t been carried out, then the doctor would enter “suspected heart attack” in section I. Is this a problem?
What is wrong with these new rules? As I explained above, “confirmed Covid-19” and “suspected Covid-19” can be entered on the MCCD either under section I(a), I(b), I(c) or section II. Section II is for “other significant conditions contributing to the death but not related to the disease or condition”. So, as I understand it, if someone with severe pneumonia is killed in a fatal car crash, the fatal injury would be entered into section 1(c) and the pneumonia listed in section II. Similarly in the example you give, the terminal illness will be entered into section I(a) and “confirmed Covid-19” entered into section II as an “other significant condition”. Isn’t that how you would want it to work?
I did not mean to imply that the excess deaths must all be unrecorded Covid-19 deaths, and don’t think I said that. In fact, I described them as “unrelated to Covid-19 deaths” and “unexplained”. I note that you don’t give any alternative explanation for this massive surge in deaths within the the space of a single week – 6,082 more deaths than the average for week 14; put another way, there were 159% of the average number of deaths in week 14 of 2020, compared to the previous five years. This is an absolute death figure not previously seen since the first week of January 2002, in the depths of winter (and even then, there is a suspicion that the 2002 figure was inflated by deaths which went unreported over the Christmas period).
If you subtract the reported Covid-19 related deaths (3,475) from the number of deaths above the expected average, you end up with 2,607 unexpected deaths in week 14, whereas the figures for week 13 are roughly in line with the expected average (121 higher, of which reported Covid-19 related deaths numbered 539).
What is your suggestion for this sudden increase by about 2,500 deaths in a single week?
My suggestion is that some (not “all”) of these deaths ARE related to Covid-19 (yes, I agree that some will be related to domestic violence murders, additional suicides, people failing to go to A&E when they have life-threatening conditions, etc., but 2,500 extra deaths in one week is a hell of a lot of unexplained deaths to account for); this then means that the Covid-19 death figures are being under-reported.
If, on the other hand, the Covid-19 deaths are being over-reported as you claim, then you not only need to give a plausible explanation of why the total number of deaths in week 14 have sky-rocketed up by 2,500 extra deaths, but also increase that figure by however many deaths you think that Covid-19 number of deaths is being over reported by.
Where is your evidence that doctors are being encouraged, that they are being coached to write Covid 19 on the death certificate?
Under the “old” rules, the medical practitioner signing the MCCD had to have seen the deceased within 48 hours prior to death.
As I understand it, the new rules were enacted to cope with the situation that the normal doctor could not sign the MCCD because they themselves were suffering from Covid-19, or were self-isolating. Have you got any evidence that the practice of medical practitioners filling in the MCCD when they haven’t had recent contact with the deceased is commonplace? Or is it merely a mostly theoretical possibility? Note that the vast majority of deaths involving Covid-19 up to week 14 were in hospitals (90.2%), with only 386 deaths reported as involving Covid-19 being “deaths in the community”. Even if these had all been misreported (highly unlikely) the over reporting would only be about 10%.
The case that Dr Kendrick highlighted is sad, and should not have happened, given that there are spare beds still in every ICU. I hope he pursues it to make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
The ONS updated their statistics yesterday to include week 15
So in week 15, there are 1,783 additional deaths above the expected amount of deaths, when you remove all those which mention Covid-19. The ONS have said that they are setting up a task force to investigate further into where these extra deaths are coming from.
See also this article published today in the Financial Times: https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab
So, alter the rules to allow almost any death to be attributed to covid19, and if that isn’t enough to boost your numbers, just assume any deaths that aren’t attributed to covid19 were still ‘likely’ due to covid19.
By the way, this man seems to be a risk statistician, not a doctor.
Admin1, agreed, Wikipedia describes him as a British Statistician and he is not a medical doctor. However, he spent much of his working life working for the Medical Research Council, working in their biostatistics unit, having previously been a research assistant for the Royal College of Physicians, so he has a good understanding of medical terminology and concerns.
As Winton professor of public understanding of risk, his research interests include the following, which are directly relevant to the discussion in hand:
Monitoring and comparing clinical and public-health outcomes and their associated publication as performance indicators.
Public understanding of risk, including promoting concepts such as the micromort (a one in a million chance of death) and microlife (a 30-minute reduction of life expectancy). Media reporting of statistics, risk and probability and the wider conception of uncertainty as going beyond what is measured to model uncertainty, the unknown and the unmeasurable.
He explains his job: “although my post is called “professor for the public understanding of risk,” I interpret it as professor for the public understanding of statistics.” (interesting interview /article here)
In order to understand statistical data well, you don’t have to be a doctor; but you do need to be a good statistician.
In the rules of 2019, almost anybody was allowed walk from Land’s End to John O’Groats. But very few people did. Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean that it happens frequently. What quantitative evidence have you got that there is widespread mis-linking of deaths to Covid-19?
He answered that in the final paragraph I quoted from the article (see above). I asked the reverse question to John in a previous comment, but he’s not answered it. I ask you the same question (it’s not rhetorical):
What is your suggestion for this sudden increase by about 2,500 deaths in a single week?
Thank you for your response.
Firstly, you still have not supplied evidence to support your claim that “Covid-19 deaths on death certificates are being under reported rather than over reported”.
Secondly, you implied that the excess deaths over and above those designated as Covid 19 deaths are in fact unrecorded Covid 19 deaths. I said that you did not consider the possibility of these deaths being caused by the Lockdown, and I provided examples of how that might happen and indeed where it had happened. In fact, several leading experts have already come forward to explain in various articles and reports how the lockdown itself will cause a great many deaths – some even say more deaths than the virus itself. Since I availed you of this information, you have modified your approach and now say that while some of these excess deaths will be due to Lockdown, not all of them will be. What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Thirdly, while you can supply no evidence of Covid 19 cases being under reported, I have shown you evidence of how encouragement is given to over-report Covid 19 cases. For example, ONS policy is that “a Covid 19 death” is any death that mentions Covid 19 on the death certificate. It then qualifies this statement by saying “If a death certificate mentions COVID-19 it will not always be the main cause of death, but MAY be a contributory factor.” Declaring a death as a Covid 19 death on grounds that Covid 19 may or may not have contributed in some miniscule way to a death is not proper grounds for declaring that death to be a Covid 19 death. This practice will lead to the Covid 19 death toll being inflated.
Fourthly, you accept that a death in the community can be registered as a Covid 19 death if a doctor filling in the death certificate simply telephones a relative and is told the patient coughed before dying. I think most people would how this leaves scope for the cause of death to be wrongly attributed.
Lastly, patients suffering any number of end stage comorbidities who die in hospital and subsequently test positive for Covid 19 have to be registered as a Covid 19 death even if Covid 19 did not cause the death. This is clearly wrong, and will lead to inflation of the Covid 19 death toll.
There is the story of the man arrested for burglary. The evidence against him was flimsy, based on hearsay, and circumstantial. The main plank of the prosecution’s case was that he owned the tools that could be used to do the crime and also had the opportunity to do it.
When this was put to him, he replied “well, you better arrest me for rape as well”. The judge looked shocked and asked him why.
“Well, your honour, I have the tools and the opportunity to be able to commit that crime too!”
The point is, just because it is possible to do something does not mean that it has actually happened. Yes, the rules around who is allowed to be able to fill in the MCCD have been relaxed somewhat for deaths in the community, making it easier for the person filling it in to make an incorrect entry on the certificate about causes of death; but (a) this applies equally to all diseases and conditions, not specifically Covid-19 and (b) you’ve provided no quantitative evidence that this is happening to any great extent.
Just because “the new rules present clear opportunities for deaths to be logged as Covid 19 deaths when they are nothing of the sort,” does not mean that this is occurring regularly. The new rules equally “present clear opportunities” for deaths to be logged as, for example, heart attacks when they are nothing of the sort. Are you suggesting that these too are being over-reported?
You have not shown “how encouragement is given” – unless you think that giving someone the ability to do something is the same as encouraging them to do so.
The phrase “a Covid-19 death” is not a phrase used in the report (yes, I checked!), but is a phrase you keep repeating. I’m not sure what you think it means. The preferred phrase the ONS use is “deaths involving Covid-19” (eleven times).
I’m don’t know why you think that deaths which cite Covid-19 as a “significant condition CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEATH but not related to the disease or condition causing it” (emphasis original) should be excluded from the total of deaths involving Covid-19 – it seems to be a very reasonable basis to proceed on to me.
This seems to be a willful misreading of the ONS document. The word “MAY” does not refer whether or not it was a contributory factor or not, or even whether it is minuscule or not – as the wording on the MCCD makes clear, anything in sections I or II ARE contributory factors – but that references to Covid-19 MAY appear in section I or MAY appear in section II.
It was never my intention to imply that all the 2500+ extra unexpected and unexplained deaths in week 14 were all related to Covid-19 (primary or contributory causes). When I realized that you had misunderstood what I said, I clarified it. We agree that some of the 2500+ extra unexpected and unexplained deaths in week 14 were not related in any way to Covid-19.
I didn’t even say that the deaths involving Covid-19 were definitely being over-reported. My actual words were “if anything, Covid-19 deaths on death certificates are being under reported rather than over reported and it’s sad to see this article being used to help justify the claim that the severity of Covid-19 is a hoax”. It is a possibility that deaths involving Covid-19 are being reported accurately.
You obviously believe that the deaths involving Covid-19 are being over-reported. What do think the true number of Covid-related deaths for week 14 are?
Yes I have. The evidence I supplied is in the statistics that the ONS released on number of deaths in England and Wales in Week 14 of 2020 (and later further supported by the ONS report on the number of deaths in week 15).
You can apply Occam’s Razor here. If the numbers of deaths involving Covid-19 are exactly accurate there was a huge spike in the number of deaths in week 14; 2,607 extra, unexplained and unexpected deaths in week 14. Is it more likely that the number of deaths involving Covid-19 have been under-reported, which means that the true number of extra unexplained and unexpected deaths in week 14 are lower, and closer to the average number of deaths OR is it more likely that the true number of deaths involving Covid-19 have been over-reported, which means that the true number of extra unexplained and unexpected deaths in week 14 are higher and even further away from the average number of deaths?
To me, it seems obvious that Occam’s Razor says that, on the balance of probability, deaths involving Covid-19 are more likely to have been under-reported rather than over-reported.
I asked this question in my last reply, but you chose not to answer, so I will ask you again:
John, what is your suggestion for this sudden increase by about 2,500 deaths in a single week?
and now add another question:
What is your explanation for the further 1,783 additional deaths above the expected amount of deaths in the following week?
Here is a sample of “PROCEDURE FOR THE DEATH OF A COVID-19 PATIENT” in Belgium:
9. Administrative arrangements
• On the death certificate (Model IIIC or IIID), the doctor must mark on section A under the headings “obstacle to the donation of the body” and “obstacle to transport before brewing”: yes in the event of the death of a patient with a positive COVID-19 test or in case of clinical suspicion of COVID-19 without a test (case possible).
If it is a death outside the hospital, it must also be specified on section A that it is a death (possible) at COVID-19
Remember AIDS? People used to die from kidney failure, cancer, pneumonia, an so on.
Same now. People may die from pneumonia caused by the virus. Or from a pre-existing irrelevant disease such as cancer or heart failure. It is better to overestimate than to be caught unprepared. They are digging mass graves in NYC! And the Americans do not really test. They underestimate, don’t they? Where I am, in Belgium, they do not test people without symptoms! This article pointing the finger at sub-standard statistics and overestimation in Italy aims to say in practical terms what exactly? Return to normal? BS
the difference is AIDS led to the kidney failure etc. Old people are dying of a previous illness to Corona. They are dying of the illness but happen to have Corona.
I have read that the virus attacks not only the lungs but other organs also. Surely there are people that die from other cause whilst being carriers. This however does not mean that the problem is not a very serious pandemic. And I read that the health insurance companies in the future will consider diseases that are on organs that the virus may attack, for those who are tested as carriers, as pre-existing conditions. Enjoy the freedom of choice!
Well, seeing that AIDS itself is mired in controversy, your comparison is not completely unfounded. However, the premise that COVID leads to kidney failure or anything of the sort is completely unfounded… From a scientific point of view. Insurance companies using COVID as an excuse to not cover you, is unsurprising. Because of the panic created, they ostensibly can use the flu to not cover. Or they can use it to force vaccinations, etc.
as far italy, i believe the article is pointing out that the explanation for the extremely high numbers there originate from the way the numbers are calculated, leading to an over estimation of the “infected” numbers.
they are using the OVER-estimated figures to fuel fear which is then used to force quarantines for likely what is going to be at least 1.5 years (while a vaccine is produced), then eventually they will force mandatory vaccination for ALL. but that vaccine, created in haste, is likely not going to be sufficiently ready, even in 18 months. So be prepared to be locked in for up to 3 years and to be forcefully vaccinated.
the only way out is herd immunity. our bodies are the ultimate vaccination cauldron. our immune systems adapt and fight, creating necessary antibodies… we should not quarantine entire populations, only a subset who are at high risk due to compromised immune systems. otherwise be ready – whenever the masses get to reunite again – for a lot of new infections.
what people seem to fail to realize is that ultimately the number of infected and dead will be the same! it’s just that with the quarantine we are going to take years instead of weeks to get there…
yes – you will argue that is why we NEED to be vaccinated. i will argue that is exactly THE point. that is the end game conclusion they want YOU the masses to come to – that there is no way out unless you take their mandatory vaccine. wake up people, please.
What a bunch of conspiracy bullshit this article is, by mr.’knightly’. If anything, governments are deliberately undercounting Covid-19 deaths, not overcounting them. In New York if somebody dies at home (and there has been a massive increase in the number of deaths at home in New York city this year compared to last, they are not counted as a Covid-19 death. There is no reason to overcount by a country; to the contrary there is every reason to undercount Covid-19 deaths as governments want their statistics to show their ability to manage the pandemic. Finally, the utter lack of testing in USA is the main reason for misleading statistics. Total shortage of tests in USA, combined with for-profit healthcare = perfect storm. Anyways this blog sucks, it is articles like this why I never bother to read anything here any longer. I only came here as this article was cross posted on Global Research website, and as the argument put forth was so stupid I had to say something to offset its stupidity. off-Guardian sucks! Hasta la vista, asshats.
The article I believe to be entirely accurate .. the whole covid 19 episode has turned into a ridiculous panic by authorities around the world led by doom mongering white coats who need to have there moment !!!
It suits hospitals to hide there inefficiencies and inability to meet there targets in other areas to report as many deaths as possible under covid 19
The reference to the 18year old dying of covid 19 when it’s clear he didn’t I’d disgusting !!
What’s going on around the world here ??
I can only assume a “ bigger play “ behind the scenes !!!
Ah, speaking of Asshat. You do understand opinion vs cited sources of information, which, some may refer to as fact, no? How about how you apparently know or presume what certain parts of the gov are incentivized by with their covid data collection and reporting but forgot to offer any sources. This is an example of opinion, your naive and uninformed one, in my opinion (see another opinion). Whereas the article, you bemoan, links to source information for any claims and where the situation does not look good but facts can’t be determined the article just flatly states “we may never know”. Thanks for your opinion, Asshat!
Agree. What the facts – because facts really should be sacred – of this article really says is that the manner in which deaths are being recorded is haphazard or, as Kavouldoun points out, sub-standard. I think we can all agree with that. But to go from this to an emphatic: therefore all Covid-19 deaths are all being overestimated is one hell of a leap. It takes no account of counter-arguments and ample evidence of the under-reporting that Deschutes refers to.
In the UK Covid-19 statistics do not include care-home deaths or those who die at home in the Covid-19 numbers. Indeed, bizarrely, a Covid-19 hospital death can only be included in the figures once the deceased family have given their consent – just to be added as a number! A fantastic new means of obfuscating and delaying the real numbers dying.
Given all the shenanigans around numbers, therefore, the only immediate statistical clue we have regarding the danger posed by Covid-19 is the total number of deaths. This is the Office of National Statistics release on the 14th of April:
“The 16,387 deaths that were registered in England and Wales during the week ending 3 April is the highest weekly total since Week 2 (early January) 2000.”
I think we can safely agree that this is conclusive evidence that deaths are going up.
However, the increase alone doesn’t tell us everything. The number of deaths have to be considered against a very particular backdrop. Unlike week 2 in January 2000, the UK and its hospitals are in lockdown. Which means a reduction of the usual deaths from accidents and incidents that are a common part of the country going about its usual business. This includes a percentages of deaths from operations and surgical procedures that are not taking place as the NHS has cancelled most operations.
Sure, there will be a rise in people who die because they could not get emergency treatment in time, but this will be offset by the reduction in overall deaths.
Furthermore, the whole reason we are in lockdown is precisely to slow the spread of the virus and reduce the numbers of deaths! Even Sweden, the only European country to reject lockdown, has experienced a significantly higher infection and death rate than its neighbour Denmark and been forced to close its high schools and universities and ask those over 70 to self-isolate. I.e. as yet we have no comparisons of countries that took no measures to control the virus.
And add to this that we are not out of the woods yet. We are dealing with a virus we still know little about. According to various modelling infection rates in the UK range from 50% to 6%. Each has very different implications about how this matter will pan out and there are many unknowns. It could be a year or more before the final death toll is known.
Given all these uncertainties the above article is puzzling. We simply don’t have the data and evidence to claim emphatically that Covid-19 is being over-reported, especially when the overall number of deaths are rising and there is plenty evidence of under-reporting!
In Italy, it has been established that only around 12% of the people listed as having died of the coronavirus were killed by it. The other 88% almost certainly died of something else. (The Italian Government’s scientific advisor reported that anyone who dies in Italy and who has the coronavirus will be listed as having died of the coronavirus. The National Institute of Health revaluated the death certificates and concluded that only 12% showed a direct causality from the coronavirus. )
“This has become one of those nuggets of information we all know by heart, but between 290000 and 650000 people die of flu, or “flu like illness”, every year. “ – no, we don’t. This is a estimate for the US of A I think, and if correct – then it would be good to add that for your readers
80,000 died of flu this Christmas in the US. 50,000 died of flu in the UK in 2018.
Apr 9, 2020 An ICU nurse of 30 years speaks out!
Wow, a few nurses commenting also to confirm this. I know these could be false so take with a pinch of salt I guess.
My grain of salt comes with the media.
Nov 4, 2019 Event 201 Pandemic Exercise: Segment 4, Communications Discussion and Epilogue Video
Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts needed to diminish the large-scale economic and societal consequences of a severe pandemic.
Has you opinion changed at all after seeing the UK overall death rate has increased?
The numbers are fake and false as the links I shared above demonstrate. As a born again Christian I do not fear death. Psalms 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
It looks like they edited the briefing note because it now reads
“It is important to emphasise that Coronavirus Disease 19, or Covid-19, should be reported for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.”
instead of “presumed”!
This video may clear up any questions on peoples mind. So much misinformation has been propagated by the main stream media instilling fear, as usual.
YouTube removed it
As the end of the season approaches, the Hyperbole Gold Star Award goes to Canada today: 462 deaths claimed (including ‘likely’, ‘possible’, and heavy numbers of geriatrics in nursing homes); the blazing headlines in the media say the models project there could be … as many as 350,000 deaths!
This is an important Chinese study finds that four fifths of cases are asymptomatic.
Good find. Thanks! A2
However, read some of the responses to the article. It turns out not to be so clear cut.
Boris Johnson has emerged from intensive care. Terribly cynical people suspect it was all BS. Perhaps it was his way of getting some rest, although he is not out of hospital yet.
This has just appeared in The Grun:
Of the 765 new confirmed reported hospital deaths announced today by NHS England, 140 occurred on 8 April while 568 took place between April 1 and April 7.
How the hell can ‘statistics’ such as those be taken seriously? So actually there were only 140 deaths yesterday and the others were spread out over 8 days. Words fail me!
Indications are that the authorities are panicking; including every death to pump up the numbers and it’s still not amounting to even a normal annual flu event.
No need to ask why if you have an understanding of bureaucracy, ‘experts’ in the limelight, and the need to defend extreme forecasts AKA models. I originally believed this was a financial event and the pandemic is a smokescreen and I am still not persuaded otherwise.
UK model: from 500,000 deaths to 20,000, really 10,000 if expected mortality is excluded. (Actual 7,000)
US model: from 2,000,000 to 240,000, to 80,000 to 60,000. (Actual 15,000).
World model: from 50 to 100 million. Actual: 89,000.
Actual figures as at today, 9 April. Source: South China Morning Post; have proven consistently reliable.
Of course the plandemic is a fucking smokescreen. Now we’ve finished reading the prelude (we’ve been on since september 11, 2001) & we’re on the first chapter of “The New World Order”. That’s what this calculated gob-shite has ‘acheived’ for the world ….
At this point in time any data related to Covid19 is questionable, given that John Hopkins University is tallying the numbers and appears to base these numbers off Event 201.
An astonishing fact is just how many deaths are being recorded in nursing/care homes and hospices where the cliental are aged and sick from an assortment of life threatening ailments.
Why has there been no explanation for the explosion of cases and deaths in these facilities world wide.
There are a couple or perhaps more explanation for what is happening.
The kindest to the medical community would be to suggest that this virus has been out in the wild for a lot longer time than what we are being told and transmission from health care workers which were asymptomatic has caused these facilities to be ground zero for the desease much like trailer parks are often ground zero for weather related events like Tornados.
But this just doesn’t excuse them entirely since precautions for such an out break should be in place for seasonal flu.
To me something very sinister is taking place and no one seems to think anything of it.
Are you trying to suggest that some of the elderly infirm are being given a little “help” to slip away, perhaps for reasons of convenience, in the knowledge that it will all be blamed on this convenient little virus?
And yet the UK says real COVID deaths are 80% higher.
I have trawled the internet and still can’t find exactly how it is scientifically known that Covid 19 does not fall under the classification of influenza viruses. All I can find are assertions that it doesn’t because the symptoms, infection transmission rates, prognosis, morbidity etc etc are different. If it’s not ‘flu what is it? Can anyone advise on this?
It’s specifically in the group of SARS viri. They are similar to influenza but more virulent: spread ratio much higher, hit quicker, and for those susceptible they do more severe damage and kill many more.
It’s similar to the relationship between a bad cold and flu. Different viri yet similar symptoms, but flu being more problematic.
Leading viral disease experts such as Professor Didier Raoult, Director of the Faculty of Medicine of Aix-Marseille University and Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, former head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology at the Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz have both made public statements in which they describing the COVID-19 virus as having no remarkable pathological features in comparison with the seasonal flu.
This would be supported by a recent article in the New England Journal of Medicine by a person at the Center of this shit storm.
Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted
List of authors.
Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D., and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.
Quote from article:
“On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of
or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.”
It sounds like Frank is saying it is a SARS virus, and SARS viruses are not ‘flu.
Tom says “COVID-19 virus as having no remarkable pathological features in comparison with the seasonal flu.” Does that mean they say it’s no worse than ‘flu?
Jay says it is more like ‘flu than SARS or MERS in it’s effects, but does that necessarily mean that the novel Corona virus, which still doesn’t have a name, is more likely a flu virus than a SARS?
The number of deaths in Italy is nothing uncommon! A study was made because of the increase in the number of deaths during the last Flu Seasons… And it’s clear that SARS-CoV-2, even with highly generous accounting STILL HAS a long work ahead…
“Investigating the impact of influenza on excess mortality in all ages in Italy during recent seasons (2013/14–2016/17 seasons)” November 2019
We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17, respectively, using the Goldstein index. The average annual mortality excess rate per 100,000 ranged from 11.6 to 41.2 with most of the influenza-associated deaths per year registered among the elderly. However children less than 5 years old also reported a relevant influenza attributable excess death rate in the 2014/15 and 2016/17 seasons (1.05/100,000 and 1.54/100,000 respectively).
Over 68,000 deaths were attributable to influenza epidemics in the study period. The observed excess of deaths is not completely unexpected, given the high number of fragile very old subjects living in Italy. In conclusion, the unpredictability of the influenza virus continues to present a major challenge to health professionals and policy makers. Nonetheless, vaccination remains the most effective means for reducing the burden of influenza, and efforts to increase vaccine coverage and the introduction of new vaccine strategies (such as vaccinating healthy children) should be considered to reduce the influenza attributable excess mortality experienced in Italy and in Europe in the last seasons.
And WHERE WAS THE PANIC and the total SHUTDOWN of Italy?!
But Italy has been in lockdown this year, so obviously less virulent flu is not going to spread and impact, but it’s replaced by more virulent SARS-2
That non-Critical Thought is already receiving what it deserves… down votes! And I haven’t voted yet.
The reason for the lockdown as nothing to do with viral infection. If it had on every of those years they should have done it, but they didn’t. Or for you 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 deaths mean less than the 2020 allegedly SARS-CoV-2 ones?
Upvotes and downvotes are immaterial to me. It’s not a popularity contest for me. I’m not trying to impress a crowd nor create followers. I’m not a narcissist. I don’t belong to the political left, centre nor right. I have always been and always will be independent.
Those votes are a sign of popularity! They are just a sign that what one writes is either really stupid and most of the readers understand that, or are a sign of rejection of Reality.
In either case you wasted time talking about what doesn’t matter just to avoid responding to the question. But no problem with that either. I’m not waiting for anything balanced!
“Once there ruled in the distant city of Wirani a king who was both mighty and wise. And he was feared for his might and loved for his wisdom. Now, in the heart of that city was a well, whose water was cool and crystalline, from which all the inhabitants drank, even the king and his courtiers; for there was no other well.
One night when all were asleep, a witch entered the city, and poured seven drops of strange liquid into the well, and said, “From this hour he who drinks this water shall become mad.” Next morning all the inhabitants save the king and his lord chamberlain, drank from the well and became mad, even as the witch had foretold. And during that day the people in the narrow streets and in the market places did naught but whisper to one another, “The king is mad. Our king and his lord chamberlain have lost their reason. Surely we cannot be ruled by a mad king. We must dethrone him.”
That evening the king ordered a golden goblet to be filled from the well. And when it was brought to him he drank deeply, and gave it to his lord chamberlain to drink. And there was great rejoicing in that distant city of Wirani, because its king and its lord chamberlain had regained their reason.”
– Khalil Gibran –
(January 6, 1883 – April 10, 1931)
I understand the CDC have issued guidelines that anyone who dies and had the virus, the death is reported as a COVID19 death, regardless of what they died off (Yes! That is clearly stated in the above article which you obviously did not read – ed)
It is not a “peculiar policy decision”, it’s standard practice. MOMO does the same thing but incorporates delayed notifications in their provisional published totals by estimating the daily count of delayed data with an adaption of the Poisson distribution. With regard to your suggestion that the ONS is likely to get muddled up when sorting out data published as provisional (their raw dataset plus estimates) and their raw dataset corrected to the actual totals when the delayed raw data comes in is to fail to understand what they are doing and to cast unwarranted aspersions on their ability to do it.
Be that as it may, the decision is not ONS’s. Their raw data arising from whatever they count has to be based on official records and it is the government who has called that shot, as you note. ONS has simply met their remit and has given a very clear explanation of where the official records on which they are required to work may serve to aggregate data they would probably prefer to report otherwise.
Now to the bigger picture , look at those 2 oficial reports , first one is the oficial Italian goverment staitics on Age structure of the alleged COVID-19 deaths:
the current number of fatalities under 50 years is 178 (out of 16 000),now here is a study of the 2009 H1N1 influenza in California
the number there of the morbidity under 50 is 312…
Exactly, this is not a new virus, it is a new test for a virus, that is leading us down the road to economic disaster.
The total number of deaths in England & Wales for 2020 until 27/3 was 138,196, the average over the last five years for this period is 143,738 – a reduction of 4,822 or 371 people a week. Source ONS
What is this down to?
Working from home?
Housing the homeless?
Statistically not relevant?
The ONS’s remit is to acquire and publish official raw data categorized in whichever way those collecting the raw data present it. It is their job to ensure that that is done as accurately as possible. It is not their job to interpret it further; that is the responsibility of their users in goverment, industry and academia, etc. It is why I didn’t bother to check some ONS data that somebody reported BTL a week or so ago, instead taking his or her word for it, a putative serious ommission that seemed to get Kit’s (?) knickers in a twist, possibly because of an assumption–and nothing more– that I was contradicting the Off-Guardian’s authorized mindset. Which, re COVID-19, I was in a sense: I find it sadly unnuanced, as monominded as its MSM counterpart glimpsed in a mirror, intellectually poverty stricken and far too shaped by the response of the founders to their reception at the On-Guardian.
The fact is, reliable comparable data on which to base any detetermination of the politically and socially expressed nature of the pathogen itself and hence any assessment of the official response to that remains so damn near nonexistent that all opining about it from anyone–professional, amateur or loo–is not worth a tin of shit. If you want to know what the only slightly repackaged raw statistics produced by the ONS might mean, make like a government or an industry or an academy and hire yourself a statistician or a reverse actuary or an affordable soothsayer, whatever. The ONS collects, collates and publishes the data, it’s up to you as you or you as y’all to find out what it means as information relevant to you or y’all. And good luck with that.
For “loo” read “loon”. For “tin of shit” read “tin of shit”.
Robbobbobin The Office for National Statistics number of deaths figures are completely reliable. They are the number of registered deaths each week. These are not estimates are statistical artefacts. They are actual numbers, the result of counting.
There must be delays between the death certificate being signed, and that data reaching the ONS mustn’t there?
Regular delays and occasional “clumping”, e.g. weekend effects? And possibly the situation is worse at times like these.
So the data is no doubt reliable in retrospect, but not necessarily so for very recent data. Just my thoughts anyway. I don’t know how the system works in detail.
Mike Ellwood The figures are reliable. They are the number of registered deaths each week and they are compared with the five yearly average for the number of registered deaths for the corresponding week(s). The delay between a death and it being registered is typically five days. This has been the case for over a hundred years and it therefore has no impact on the figures.
The main goal of this SARS-CoV-2 distraction is to funnel TRILLIONS to bankrupt Banks, Private Equity Firms, VC firms and Financial Markets without getting the FULL ATTENTION of the “people”!
The censorship is now up-front and explicit:
How do they know? This is not the first time they have gone with this line over 5G and Coronavirus.
Censorship + propaganda.
How people mocked David Icke when 25 years ago he spoke about the wish to introduce a police state
All democratic States will eventually gravitate to totalitarianism. Then there’s a revolution, then we start over. He’s not bloody Nostradamus 🤣
I don’t think anyone was mocking Icke over the details of the hidden state etc. Some of that information was ground breaking. The issue with Icke was (and still is) his stories of the shape-shifting reptilians in the palace and beyond, that the Queen was a blood drinking reptilian etc.
Anyone reading Icke has to be able to discern between the real valuable info he provides and the ‘spiritual’ element of his ‘teaching’ which is closely linked to the new age occult and beyond.
His channeling and spirit guidance stuff is basically just occultism so the information that comes out of that has to be questionable.
Icke’s more eccentric claims remind me of a Polish defector named Michal Goleniewski during the Cold War. He claimed to be the son of the last Tsar of Russia despite obviously being too young. His assertion seemed to be an attempt to discredit the value of any other assertions he was making.
I think Icke and Alex jones are the same thing, they are tools of the security services, MI5 and CIA respectively, who cleverly use brilliantly insightful truths about the system and it’s abuses, but add an untrue twist which leads us down a dead end. They never blame the real culprit, of this horror show, the American Empire, which is the only force capable of doing what they claim is happening to us, they always point to some weird international conspiracy, which is more of a far right echo of 1930’s anti-semitism, than a reflection of todays reality.
I have heard that of AJ before and I can certainly believe that.
Icke is different. He wants to turn people towards a luciferian path and he uses his form of ‘truth’ in part to achieve that. He often talks of the light and Lucifer is known as the light bearer – he is representative of this ‘light’.
He denies God and his Son Jesus Christ and replaces them with this ‘light’ which is really a form of darkness.
Occultists run this world and Lucifer is the father of this world and the father of lies. The American Empire is a meaningless phrase but the forces that control it are not.
‘For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.’ Ephesians 6:12
How convenient that it is Alex jones in the USA and David Icke that have helped create the justification, in the minds of the population, for censorship. If somebody on the loony right, is causing a loss of civil rights then it is because they are assisting in the destruction of those rights. I say that knowing that David Icke & Alex Jones tell us more about the reality of the deep state than any other person or group around, which gives them their credibility. But that does not mean they are not part of it
I may be wrong but also remember that the US is failing in it’s ability to build 5G, they don’t have many or even any companies that are able to build the systems they need, so it would be not surprise to me that their two favourite conspiracy theorists might be helping them out by demonising what is effectively Chinese and European technology.
And the fact that there’s no significant, if any, 5G in the US yet should have put paid to the daft idea that 5G is killing people not covid.
I’m afraid conditions are perfect now that Corbynites are deposed for the next best thing to a compliant opposition taking over the facade of government – a coalition gnu – Sturgeon will jump at the chance and use it to head off the resurging independence mood, having failed to destroy Salmond.
The need for hard brexit and preserving the union will be the reason – the covid pandemic will be the excuse. We’ll buy it and give up further liberties as the black knight ‘opposition’ removes it’s own legs! The reason Hunt wasn’t chosen last summer was that he would have been a hard sell to the British public – he didn’t have the celebrity status of a clown. He was the privatiser king of the NHS for many a year and too powerfull to remove from his pet project. Only Professor Stephen Hawking came close enough to stop him until he unfortunately died. Hunts been their most competent assassin and he was always protected from the ‘front office’ function. Maybe he’ll be used but it is unnecessary.
As Germany, China, Russia preserve their economies and citizens well being – we will fall in as a formal state of the US.
It’s a grand game they play – bozo is just a pawn – and the DS makes all decisions- we have the laws enacted just a week ago! Its all secret AND legal now.
That’s precisely what Brexit was all about. Some voters were fooled into this, but many are very pleased with such an outcome, just read Boris’ the Daily Telegraph community for evidence if needed.
It also passes them by that Boris is dual US-UK national.
So, why did he defy the US on Huawei?
Did he really? There is politics around Russiagate and ….
China is also involved in building us a nuclear power station and other infrastructure projects. We can’t ignore BRI.
Why don’t get it over with and call Tory/ Labour the same as the pantomime parties across the water, Republicans and Democrats.
Tony Blair and acolytes wanted to turn the Labour Party into something like the US Democrats. They did not fully succeed but I wouldn’t say they failed completely either. it may complete the transformation now that Corbyn, seen as uncomfortably left-wing, has been removed. (I found Corbyn disappointing but the Blairite crowd constantly undermined him.)
Doctors criticizing current treatments and especially the use of ventilators.
Everybody speaking out below (all doctors) seems to agree that this does not look like ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome) but looks more like high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) or high altitude sickness.
Do COVID-19 Vent Protocols Need a Second Look? (by John Whyte, MD, MPH; Cameron Kyle-Sidell, MD) 18:06
“After treating patients with COVID-19, a New York city physician suggests ventilator protocols may need revisiting”
COVID Clinical Discussion w/Cameron Kyle-Sidell: NYC ED/ICU doc in the trenches 19:16
Several video testimonials by MD Cameron Kyle-Sidell:
EMCrit Wee – Stop Kneejerk Intubation with the EMCrit Crew 14:16
Multiple doctors speaking out;
REBEL Cast Episode 79 – COVID-19 – Trying Not to Intubate Early & Why ARDSnet may be the Wrong Ventilator Paradigm 1:30:18
Podcast 553: Airway Management in the Hypoxic COVID-19 Patient (Recorded 4/3/20) 08:39
Is protocol-driven COVID-19 respiratory therapy doing more harm than good?
Ventilators Are No Panacea For Critically Ill COVID-19 Patients
Covid-19 Does Not Lead to a “Typical” Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome
COVID-19 pneumonia: different respiratory treatment for different phenotypes?
Preliminary observationson the ventilatory managementof icu covid-19 patients
Hi Fred, thanks for the sources and for quoting relevant parts in your post. Very interesting. Since your opinion expressed here, regardless of your wider views, dovetails with the official ‘scare-narrative’ of an out-of-control virus, forgive me if I draw your attention to our other articles on Offg and elsewhere, in which draw attention to the generally flu-like profile of this virus, and that its mortality rate appears to correspond to natural mortality rates? Ie. those appearing to die from/with this virus appear to tally with normal seasonal excess fatalities.
We do not advocate that there is no virus, but rather we cite experts who question whether the impact of this virus is in line with past epidemics/pandemics and, indeed, may have had less impact so far than previous years’.
Far be it for me to argue the point with you, but I did wonder how these viewpoints fit into your view, in the interests of maintaining a well-balanced debate BTL.
Why not, considering:
— the alleged pandemic event shows incontrovertible signs of being a Trauma-based Mind Control Psychological Operation in the form of a “live exercise” which means it is a planned event (the tabletop exercise in October being a very good support to this supposition)
— there is no way they could make a virus behave in pandemic fashion or behave in any way at all. Moreover, it is not their MO to do things for real in their psyops unless they want the thing for real and they don’t want a real virus or a pandemic, they just want to make people believe in the virus and the pandemic and to enforce measures against the alleged pandemic … while at the same time per their strict rules they give us all the clues that the event is an exercise and not real
— there is no clear evidence of the virus
— there is clear evidence against it, eg, all patients they show us in hospitals allegedly suffering from the virus display no symptoms or are filmed in anomalous fashion in an ICU and say strange things; they show us ludicrous “miracle survivor” stories – this conforms with their strict rules of never providing anything convincing that a believer of their story can brandish in support of it
If this event is, in fact, a psychological operation then part of the MO will be to have experts appear saying this that and the other, some of it reliable and some of it not. I’m not really sure why you don’t assess the event for psyoppery and go from there rather than simply look at what we are told and assess what we are told without a sense of the context of the whole thing. I mean what do you say the whole thing is?
I listened to all those interviews/podcasts and read the articles. I’m no doctor but from what I gather what they are saying is that there is a virus but it’s different from anything they have seen before. This does not mean that there is a catastrophe waiting to happen like the msm is portraying. It is just another flu-like strain, but it is different and needs different treatment than what they usually do. Also multiple doctors said this looks almost exactly like high-altitude pulmonary edema, and that should be taken into consideration more or studied more. There are papers supporting all this.
Why this stuff is important (and why I spent time collecting these links) is that they might be killing patients based on incorrect use of the ventilators. That is the main worry. And there is a major push for the use of these things. They might be making the problem way worse because of incorrect treatment. Doctors follow procedures and the procedures are wrong.
“We do not advocate that there is no virus”
Interestingly, all these observations from these doctors would also fit a cause that has nothing to do with a virus but that happens to cause similar symptoms or ailments. That is a personal take and I understand that it is controversial. Patients suffer from lack of oxygen, and this can also cause other organs than the lungs to start malfunctioning. Guess what also causes problems with oxygen? (And by coincidence google has just decided they will remove all videos linking corona with 5g. Hmm…)
In any case, there is no need to deny the existence of a virus or 5g to explain what these doctors are saying/seeing so you can treat it as such if you don’t want to go there.
This is the kind of informed opinion and links I love to see here, specialists like Willem posting here. Much appreciated.
I’ll ignore the Ike reptilian and 5G lunacy though, except for comedy.
There is no limitation to the notion of ‘not being able to see the forest because of all those fucking trees’.
All you needed to do was to read my original post to the original article about the then steadily rising numbers of people – getting sick from something.
The denial about this something is at the root of the problem. Denial is a widespread phenomenon of believing if you just don’t accept the truth – it will go away.
It will not go away. It will reveal its ugly essence soon. And, like so many others – people will not be able to grasp what has just happened.
You CANNOT undo the forced change of human DNA. You cannot undo genetically manipulated organisms. Once they are released, they resemble Pandora’s box – the one no-one was supposed to open.
As many will now just ‘disappear’ – based on pre-existing conditions I like to remind you that every human beings’ pre-existing condition is one of impermanence. But if certain people who are definitely willing and able to wreak havoc among humanity based on their religious delusions of whatever grandeur they’re fantasizing of, are allowed to continue with their King Prick Getting Asskissed-inger advisor, you better know that only a bloody revolution promises the removal of all those behind the present melt down.
The re-working of Homo Sapiens by – homo non-sapiens. What could go wrong?
Oh, and yes, please, take a closer look at who is going in larger numbers than all the others from pre-existing conditions.
A global general strike has the potential to bring all those responsible for things like 9/11/Anthrax/asset theft off the general population (‘financial meltdow’), Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria/Yemen/Bolivia/Venezuela, things will deteriorate even more.
The owners are practicing population reduction and the removal of anything resembling ‘democracy’. Can’t have that any longer. Live with it – or we will make you.
Whoever believes the lies – wants to believe the lies.
Apologies. Something happened. “A global general strike has the potential to bring all those responsible for things like 9/11/Anthrax/asset theft off the general population (‘financial meltdow’), Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria/Yemen/Bolivia/Venezuela, things will deteriorate even more.”
Should have read:
“A global general strike has the potential to bring all those responsible for things like 9/11/Anthrax/asset theft off the general population (‘financial meltdow’), Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria/Yemen/Bolivia/Venezuela, to un-corrupted justice – for if it won’t happen now, things will deteriorate even more.”
Must be true, he’s the anti Christ after all. What, saving millions from various diseases and helping them to get a better quality life?Yeah, what an utterly evil bastard he is! He should just sit back and let those Africans die young and in misery instead.
Do inform us as to whom, it’s not obvious.
REDUCED RESPIRATORY CAPABILITY?
Just marinade yourself in the low-iq bait coming from various sources. Yes, it is moronic to believe that this installment of fucking with humanity is in any way different then the fucking with humanity in all other cases. The forests surrounding Chernobyl are burning. Australia burning. Indonesia burning. Industry pollution. Sure, real morons believe that the wholesale destruction of air ‘quality’ – oh, and yes, admired morons: how come there are as many ‘CON’ trails as before if there are no more airplanes flying?
It is your duty to inform yourself from sources that give you a truthful account of whatever happened. It is not the job of any commenter on these entertainment boards to fill in others as to what to believe or do. This is all just opinions. Layman’s opinions, “specialists'” opinions, but it always turns out that, what the ‘majority’ had figured out about something did actually not match the truth in retrospective.
And you downvoters enjoy your personal meltdown. It will come. You can fool some morons sometimes, but you cannot fool the Universe. Enjoy your Karma.
Oh, and yes, CBD works with COPD.
well, all i can say today is that whoever has done this, they’ve just about f***ed everything up for everyone probably- excepting themselves – thank you very much!
NYC Health: Only 1.8% of deaths in New York City were without an underlying condition
Total NYC COVID-19 Deaths: 2738
No Underlying Conditions: 48 (1.8%)
Does anyone here actually know anyone who has died/been hospitalized because of corona?
I am starting to get fed off by this bullshit. Even in Norway, with 70 official deaths or something (many of them might be cases of “with corona, not of corona”), I have the feeling reading the papers that they will drag this out for a year or so. People’s economy and health are ruined. We get some critical articles, mostly from entrepreneurs who worry about their economy. What’s happening is just so sick.
Anybody’s french here, or living in France ?
I am and I do, in Paris, and the total absence of any kind of debate in the medias here is driving me insane…
There’s no way I’m the only one, so please contact me if you want to share about it…
There is no debate anywhere it has been outlawed. You must be an evil murderer to disagree with the media’s version of events.
I live in the Auvergne. I agree, it is very hard to find any alternative information in French. Have you looked at the Swiss Doctor Covid-19 site, which is also provided in French translation? I sent a link to my neighbour. Otherwise you’re stuck with the information on Radio France – I don’t have television – and you begin to wonder if they really are right and you are wrong. I heard an unfortunate lady on the news this morning, Algerian, living in a flat in Paris, four children, one a baby, nothing to do all day but sleep and eat chocolate and feel depressed. What is the national health going to be like in a few years’ time? Even if we accept that this virus is more dangerous than a seasonal flu (a view which the statistics don’t bear out), even that doesn’t justify depriving healthy people of fresh air and exercise.
Hi Jane, thank you for your message…
I’m aware of the Swiss Propaganda Resarch page on Covid-19, but I’m dreaming of any article, any blog post, by any doctor or journalist that would go against the current apocalyptic narrative here, there are many in the US, in the UK, in Germany, even in Italy but not a single one that I could find in France, it seems that all that people care about is the daily number of deaths and the holy masks… I feel like i’m surrounded by sheeps and braindead zombies… 🙁
I think you’ll have to go on dreaming. Even RT France follows the mainstream. In general the only controversy you hear in French media is the one around Dr Raoult’s hydoxychloroquine – whether to use it or not. You might try Agoravox (not very alternative) or mondialisation.ca but you probably know about those. Many of the articles on mondialisation.ca focus on covid-19 as a bioweapon or else insist that its danger is being downplayed! How anyone could arrive at that conclusion is beyond me. Thierry Meyssan on Réseau Voltaire has some interesting things to say. You can also find information by looking up newspapers from previous years to find statistics about flu and pneumonia, or deaths in Ehpads. I found an article in the Figaro which said that 90,000 people a year, 250 a day, die in Ehpads every year. Which puts into perspective the 100,000 deaths RT France is warning us about.
Any interview with Christopher Hitchen’s on youtube made over the past few weeks is excellent. there are three or four, all good. (That would be Peter Hitchens -ed)
You might find this interesting if you speak German. It’s not very official media but if it were it would not exist.
Thierry Meyssan is a conspiracy theorist. Still, if you like that sort of thing …..
If you have a non-conspiracy theory as to why it was thought appropriate to shut down the world economy because an allegedly new virus has caused 1/10 as many deaths as ordinary flu does every year, I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in hearing it.
If you do not have such a theory, then perhaps you should realize that the time when sneering at “conspiracy theorists” made you look like something other than a hypocrite and a fool, is well and truly over.
I don’t have a theory about it. And I don’t much care what ‘sneering at conspiracy theorists’ as you say makes me look like; but it seems to me that sneering at any dissenting posters is pretty rife on this forum. The above people say they’re looking for debate: I wonder if they’ll find debate here – apart from the occasional informative and well-thought out comments, it seems more often a case of ‘all of a mind’.
Someone woke up at Le Figaro ! https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/monde/renaud-girard-le-confinement-remede-pire-que-le-mal-20200406 and the comments on the article are much more against the confinement and the mass hysteria than the other way !
Seems like (some) people are waking up. Hopefully it’s just a beginning.
Yes! I couldn’t real all of the article since it’s behind a paywall, but many of the comments (871 of them!) suggest that some people at least are glad to hear a different point of view.
Apparently doctors in France are worried because people with heart disease are avoiding hospitals. Those with suspected heart attack or stroke don’t call the emergency services and admissions have gone down by as much as 40 per cent in hospitals in France and as much as 70 per cent in hospitals in Spain and Italy. Yet these illnesses haven’t gone away. One wonders how many deaths will be attributed to covid-19 that were really caused by untreated heart attack or stroke.
I reject the assertion one mans (womans) life is more valuable than another mans (womans) freedom. Even if you believe the pandemic travesty is as dangerous as they claim (which I don’t) nothing justifies the lunacy we are experiencing.
Politicians/technocrats have no right to imprison entire nations.
That’s because everything that revolves around a major event in France becomes fashionable, everyone talks about it, and becomes polemic, nothing but polemic. There is no politics in France, but political chatter, absolutely sterile discussions around the speakers’ belly buttons. And how boring that is!
Yes the lockdown is massively disproportionate. Should be the vulnerable who should take precautions, not the whole of society.
why, then, do you attack people who point out that since the official response makes no sense, that there must be something else going on?
Milo, I’m hoping that I’m onl doing that to people who are trying to trash this site with their mad conspiracies and lack of empathy towards dying and dead people and their families. You’re an old timer here, you’ve got good intentions for this site, even if you and me disagree on a few things, we want to keep this site going.
Hey Jane, don’t know if you’re still around, but if you are, I (and some friends) finally decided to build our own website to inform people about facts on the Covid-19.
Feel free to share it !
I find he who gets the racist trope out first wins the argument.
Thanks enjoyed debating with you. ; -)
I was using a search engine to try to find doctors who are critical of the covid treatments that are being used. I got ZERO results. In a normal world that is just impossible. This goes to show:
A) how scared doctors are of the medical establishment.
B) how much censorship there is by search engines
In Canada it is the same situation – total absence of any kind of debate in the media. This is a concerted thing at this point.
Try Rebel News on YouTube.
I’m in Alberta, Canada. To this point there have been 29 deaths of which almost half have been in two senior citizen residences in Calgary. It’s not a total lockdown, but only ‘essential’ services are working. A total lockdown is looming on the horizon.
Where I live from tomorrow if you dont wear a mask you will fined 30, 000 E. So I wont be even able to go shopping.
What? Where do you live?
Google is your fiend (sic)
Couple face €30,000 fine after sex session on beach on Spain’s Costa del Sol
the fascist total surveillance state has arrived. Big Brother is watching you.
I wanna be on it ! I wanna be on it ! Wah !
make a mask?
Yes, I have already found your site. Well done! But I have learned my lesson. I no longer point people in the direction of alternative information since I have found they just aren’t interested and it leads to quarrels. Now I discuss only practical experiences of the quarantine rather than facts and figures and come to sites like this (or yours, from now on) to retain my sanity.
are prime minister is a political prisoner
nelson was made to be free already
why not boris
free boris piffiffel johansonson
he may have been born in new york he may be a donmeh turkick
but he is pure city of london
free are new jack sparrow
An extract from a site from two years ago (2018).
”Atsunami of sick people has swamped hospitals in many parts of the country in recent weeks as a severe flu season has taken hold. In Rhode Island, hospitals diverted ambulances for a period because they were overcome with patients. In San Diego, a hospital erected a tent outside its emergency room to manage an influx of people with flu symptoms.”
USA JANUARY 15, 2018
Have you got a link please?
For future reference just enter the first few lines of the text in google.
”A severe flu season is stretching hospitals thin. That is a very bad omen”
Following Johnson’s turn for the worse, Michael Gove is now going into isolation, in my view either they are faking it, as they are not the typical profile of those effected by this illness, to get the public to follow orders, because The Empire was not be happy to see the British people enjoying the sun and walking around normally, or they are being replaced for failing to deliver for The Empire.
As it happens, the empire have been rather more lenient than local authorities, those jumped-up bastards would have us locked up for sticking our noses out the door any other time than 8 pm Thursday.
PS. I hope Gove doesn’t get it. It’ll mutate into something awful.
If he did it would make him more interesting as a person.
To late, he already became something awful.
Good talk https://youtu.be/lGC5sGdz4kg?t=2
Smart girl https://youtu.be/wElEJqAWiMg?t=1
The successes of the Corona virus for the Banking, Corporate military industrial complex:
The lockdown causes the measured stressing and indebting them to the banks (which we are bailing out) of thousands of small and medium size companies, bringing them to the verge of bankruptcy and making them ripe for takeover at fire sale prices.
The transfer of trillions in loans and gifts to US corporations, (when they don’t need the money), to buy up the medium size companies that undermine their monopolies and cartels, this will further entrench the power of the few oligarchs that own the USA. Amazon is allowed to function and is massively extending it’s market share, as it is in effect the only company allowed by law to provide almost all ‘none essential‘ goods.
The Virus is useful in creating a ‘flight to safety’ to the dollar, at a time when it’s value is being destroyed by a massive new QE money printing program, which was started to shore-up the banking liquidity crisis (bank run) which began only weeks before the arrival of the virus in the American banking system. The Fed is now allowed to provide infinite cash to shore up the bank.
The military and their surveillance arms, get an extension of surveillance, unrestricted tracking in cooperation with US tech, and in the case of the UK the removal of warranted surveillance allowing MI5 and others to track and listen as they wish. For the military this is also a full martial law dry run, making it a regular tool of the Empire.
It’s very good to see someone else who sees this for what it is. They most certainly are not crashing ‘the economy’ as we keep hearing, but continuing their business as usual, by taking out the competition. This pandemic has just given them the green light to go into turbo overdrive mode and really ramp it up.
It’s also a good way of getting the poor to agree to bear the cost of it with barely a whimper post-virus
Please listen to ” William Engdahl: The Dystopian Scenario Arising From COVID-19″ – https://youtu.be/iHzGL4tJAQc.
There the nice wordplay changing “CoVid-19” to “CoVid-1984“
Also read Engdahls great articles on: http://www.williamengdahl.com/
Checkout operator in M&S tells me that those who want to work on the tills are getting a 15% increase as “danger money”. Wtf.
Fascism is about empowering the failed, the bitter, the angry, if you give power over us to an uneducated security guard or till worker, to lord over us then you have got them for life. That is what the brown shirts were. Our lives are controlled now by security guards and till workers in the supermarkets and in the shops and even on the streets. People who have no idea whats going on and who will just follow orders, they will be empowered more.
They are also buying the compliance of the medical staff by turning them into heros. Yes my hospital is empty but I can’t tell anyone because I like being a hero.
I was in a large Tesco store yesterday. There was warning tape on the floor right at the start of the conveyor belt which you had to stay behind to unload your goods even if there wasn’t room on the conveyor belt to put everything you bought without oversteppng the tape (as I discovered when I was ordered to ‘get back behind the tape!’ by an officious overseer). The previous customer was already vanishing to the exit so the instruction was presumably to protect the checkout operator behind the screen. Even when I stepped over the tape I was still more than 6 feet away from the checkout operator. When I went to the other end of the checkout to pack my goods and pay I was no more than 3 feet away from the checkout operative for about five minutes. Can anyone work out the logic of these inconsistencies other than them being designed to humiliate and demonstrate control? No, me neither.
Tesco staff were like that before covid19 was even conceived.
What do you expect them to do – revolt? They could just be scared out of their wits by all this. By being told they’re ‘on the front line’ and all that other Britain at War rubbish! Imagine the anxiety especially if, as you suggest, they are uneducated, maybe not too clear-thinking, and fearing for their very jobs.
Exactly that. I used to do those sorts of jobs once upon a time, you simply do as you are told or you’re on the dole.
Tesco staff (stores, distribution centres and call centres(??) ) are getting a 10% bonus on their salaries and a 15% staff discount on all purchases – their CEO sent an email yesterday to tell me.
Again, the statistics from Italy, tell us the average age of death is 80 years old, 75% are men, with 99% of victims having multiple medicals conditions prior to death. Also the average annual death rates in Europe are not changing, this is a pretty average year.
So why are they showing young, middler age people and so many woman on the TV and repeatedly claiming ‘we are all at risk’?…….when ……. we are not all at risk. (Note life expectancy in Italy is around 82), so we have shut down the entire world economy to PERHAPS save one year on the life of a few thousand people.
I suspect the winter illnesses have not changed but the tests and the press reaction has.
We should all be very worried that this kind of operation is going ahead when all the statistics are telling us it is madness.
This won’t be very popular to say, especially here, but I have seen this kind of mass hysteria operation before in the field of climate change, which was another operation aimed at crippling the world economy, transferring trillions in government funds to large Corporations and targeting the population with additional taxed and restrictions under a form of global austerity, all under cover of emotional blackmail, , like this operation.
Yes – good points.
Anthropogenic climate change sceptic here too.
Fear is used to control.
Well now they have shut down most of the global economy they are no longer shouting about how we only have ten years to save the planet. The coronavirus proved to be a much more effective way of frightening people.
We’ve certainly been killing the planet. We use the resources of 3 Earths. We are like lemmings jumping off a cliff. Pausing the economy for a breath, no pun intended, is not a bad thing.
Literally Frank ?
Yes, at the current rate versus doing is sustainably.
“Pausing the economy for a breath, no pun intended, is not a bad thing.” Really Frank. Tell me, do you really think that pausing the economy (as you euphemistically put it) is not going to cause substantial harm, including deaths?
Frank I suspect is not a fan of the economy or the human race, because that is where you need to be to join the GW cult, and I don’t mean that in a nasty way, those are the requirements because they are the logic result of their arguments, a neutering of the human race and abolition of a growth based economic model.
cancerous tumours also follow a growth-based economic model, but their strategy almost always encounters material limits to growth, eventually.
So we are the cancer that should be killed ? You shouln’t hate your own spicies, it’s not natural.
Whilst I am an anthropocentric “climate change” denier, & don’t accept the hysterical pandemic narrative spread by MSM propaganda I absolutely agree with you frank, the greatest threat to this planet is habitat destruction, caused by population & consumption which are opposing ends of the same straw that broke camels back, created by the same old offenders, neo-liberals!
The greatest threat to all life on this planet are Liberals.
We can have different political opinions and views about the extent to which we are being manipulated, and indeed about the reality or otherwise of human induced climate change, but our physical damage to the planet is irrefutable.
My personal view us that the worst damage we’ve caused to the planet is vast deforestation. It inevitably changes or shifts climate by default of massively disrupting the water cycle and related weather patterns. Forests are also lungs if the planet…a poignant analogy at this time of human illness.
I don’t quite get how ‘population and consumption are opposing ends of the same straw…’ And what have liberals got to do with population (I presume you mean over-population of certain habitats)?
Have you had your business destroyed or job lost through the lockdown?
No, thought not.
Who, me? Yes quite probably if the lockdowns are not lifted next month. Thanks for asking and caring, I’m touched by your thoughtfulness. 😘
but you said pausing the economy was “not a bad thing”.
It’s not bad for the environment but bad for me, a clear difference.
Maybe you should have used a different simile, Frank. The only lemmings that jump off cliffs are those that are exploited, controlled and manipulated into committing mass suicide by atrocities committed by more powerful beings.
National policy decisions like this, far from being science-driven, may be driven by election cycles, Pharma bribes, or stupid officials. This just in:
Considerable evidence suggest that the virus was circulating in the USA as early as last August but was ignored with the intention of mingling its stats with the annual ‘flu deaths. That would explain why
a) the CDC refused to permit Covid-19 testing until March 3, despite pleas from researchers and
b) the CDC still refuses to identify its Index Case (patient zero).
The US was the source of Spanish Flu and Swine Flu (300,000 deaths) and may well have been the source of Covid-19.
The coverup may have been caused by effluent from Fort Detrick that caused so many local health problems that the CDC intervened and shut down the entire, massive facility–an unprecedented civilian interference in a top-secret biowarfare site.
I strongly recommend Dana Ashlie’s video presentation (quickly removed by the censors at YouTube of course, but viewable here):
It is essential viewing and explains among other things why the symptoms of this supposed ‘virus’ are so unlike comparable infections (as per what the NY Doctor says in the video further down).
It’s one thing engaging in discussions here on Offguardian, but when the reality is on your doorstep it suddenly becomes very real indeed.
So……. I live in the south of England in a working class ex council estate and over the last two days over 40 5G lampposts have been installed including outside the school- despite the lockdown in place. It must be deemed an essential service! I know they are 5G because they have been erected right next to existing lamppost which were only retrofitted with LED lamps a short while ago.
Yesterday I watched as the road was blocked off and a drone was launched from an unmarked car outside my house. When questioned the police were very rude and told me to go back in my house.
There is a plan – this is a live exercise and the virus is the cover story for any problems that might arise when the 5G switch on takes place.
Is this just stage one?
This Sh*t just got real. For the first time I am genuinely afraid.
Wherabouts, which estate, Mr Chops ?
Brighton – Hangleton
Any links of any footage by any chance?
Cheers, MrChops. I’m just north of Lewes. 🙂
Tell them you’re exercising. Take photos. Buy an angle grinder. 🙂
Thanks for the info. A lot of people are reporting similar installations taking place during this lockdown. The switch on has already taken place, however, in a lot of places. I think your fears are justified.
In the town I live in TN if you are out after dark the sheriff deputies driving large pickup trucks rather than patrol cars will follow you with bright lights on, riding your ass to intimidate you until you get off of the roads. There are several of them that do this all night long. During the day they are gathering in parking lots of local stores to intimidate people to stay home. It’s crazy, and to most people, very scary. This is a small town where cops still get away with whatever they want, harassment, beating citizens, lying….oh, what’s new, that goes on everywhere, just more here.
5G wavelengths cannot penetrate human skin at the amplitude used for mobile transmission according to physicists. They are very short range hence need to be everywhere.
I’m not keen on this technology for political reasons not particularly health reasons.
Please provide one link to a any independent testing or peer reviewed scientific paper that has taken place regarding the safety of 5g in relation to emf radiation of millimetre waves on the human body. Then we can have a discussion about the science.
Otherwise your statement is akin to saying …………
Its not that i don’t believe you, but it makes no sense, whats the point of the lock-down it only makes a captive audience, it would have been far more covert to carry out the work whilst everyone was to busy going about their lives to notice.
But be in no illusion 5g is about government surveillance, not faster Netflix downloads, the benefit of 5g is volumes of real time data transfer, who have you ever meet that said they wish they had 5g?
Loks like they’re going for it:
Big state funeral. Obituary: “The PM who gave his life for us all”. And when people start to get very vocal in their skepticism over the virus, they are denounced as “Filthy evil dangerous loons who are a disgrace to the memory of our beloved former PM”. Boris meanwhile sunbathing in Hawaii.
Whilst I wouldn’t wish illness (or death) on anyone, I am cynical about this only because both the media and the government have been shown to be very economical with truth and as you say it makes it very difficult to speak out against anything “corona” when a high profile person is, we are told, in the ICU.
It is following the same script as the “deadly” Novichoc poison where Sergei and daughter almost died. Where are they now I wonder. Pure theatre to hoodwink a gullible public.
You think that the doctors and nurses and porters etc at St Thomas’s would be part of your conspiracy? 🤪
There is that possibility. There is also the possibility that Johnson’s illness is intended as a warning to other global leaders who might not want to follow the ‘official’ line. Given a few of the strange situations in Boris Johnson’s career, such as being eavesdropped at his girlfriend’s flat, I’m not sure it’s beyond the bounds of possibility that he was deliberately infected with a virulent form of the virus (or, indeed, something else too). I don’t say that happened – just that I find this all very odd and not properly explained.
Warning to Johnson?
Ah yes, so not Wuhan flu, but Huawei flu.
Mwah ha ha ha !
Quoting Iain Duncan Smith …
Since when did being Prime Minister make you fit and healthy?
you will find he will end up in israel like janner,mcalpine,leon britain the maxwells gislaine and robert
not forgeting mr epstein of the island fame
also harvey weinstein
“Be seeing you”.
The link of Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg ( https://www.wodarg.com/ ), who had opposed the lock down and other measures of the German government (and of governments of other countries) had been blocked for several days. But now – because of protests – this link is available again.
Here is the google-translated link – and so that valuable site of Dr. Wodarg is useful also for English speakers: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wodarg.com%2F
Sorry – my bad English:
English speakers” = “English speaking persons/individuals/citizens”