The deaths of doctors, nurses and other medical workers has been a major talking point since the pandemic began.
It started in Italy, where a website was set up listing the deaths of doctors who “died on the frontlines”.
Despite being billed as “frontline” doctors, fifteen of the names are dentists. There are also surgeons, psychiatrists, paediatricians and other specialists who obviously would not have been “on the frontlines” treating Covid19 patients.
When Swiss Propaganda Research noted that many of them were retired, and that average age was over sixty-nine, the dates of birth were removed.
As the pandemic has shifted focus from Italy to the UK, the deaths of NHS workers have started flooding the headlines.
A few days ago The Guardian ran a piece listing all of the NHS staff alleged to have died of Covid19. So did the Telegraph. And the BBC.
As these stories have been released, we’ve received several e-mails and comments asking some variation of the following:
If this is “just a normal flu”, why are so many healthcare workers dying?”
To which our response is: How many healthcare actually are dying of Covid19?
Although we hear a lot of anecdotal evidence, and see a lot of headlines, we have no data suggesting an excessive impact on healthcare professionals.
A recent statistical study published in the Health Services Journal (HSJ) provides some important facts and context:
Firstly, let’s establish the data: As of 22nd April, 119 “NHS workers” were reported to have died of Covid19. Thirteen of them were excluded from the study for being either retired or never confirmed to work for the NHS.
That left 106 NHS staff who died of alleged Covid19.
Secondly, we should clear up the misconception that this represents just “frontline” healthcare workers. It doesn’t.
This number includes 35 nurses, 18 doctors and 27 healthcare assistants (HCAs), they are all “frontline” workers. But it also includes 36 others (dentists, psychiatrists, porters, administrators, receptionists etc).
Finally, let’s put these numbers in some context:
The NHS is the biggest single employer in the UK. NHS England, NHS Scotland and NHS Wales employ roughly 1.5 million people (Wikipedia estimates over 1.7 million). That’s over 4% of the 38 million working-age adults, or 2.5% of the entire population of the UK.
As such, you would expect roughly 2.5% of the Covid19 victims to be NHS employees (assuming proportionate distribution).
However, the 106 NHS employees represent only 0.58% of the UK’s 18,200 total Covid19 casualties as of April 22nd.
To put it another way:
- Any randomly selected citizen of the UK has a 1/39 chance of being employed by the NHS.
- But any randomly selected “Covid19 related death” has a 1/172 chance of being employed by the NHS.
In summary: In direct contradiction of the media coverage, healthcare workers are NOT being disproportionately affected by Covid19. They are actually substantially under-represented.
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Hi. It’s been a few months since you posted this article. Anyway, I linked the article t on twitter & a hospital worker posted back to me saying they’d never seen people die of viral load in hospitals. before COVID.
“The Off Guardian “stats” are so comical because they casually “assume proportionate distribution” of deaths between NHS workers and the general population.
The fact is, healthcare workers don’t normally die like this.
We know that the vast majority of deaths are in the older, i.e. NOT working age population.
Off Guardian has got this all shockingly wrong from the start due to their cognitive biases.
This article is nonsense.
The author doesn’t even understand what a front line healthcare worker is, let alone have a grasp of stats.
I have never known any of my NHS colleagues to die of an infection contracted at work before 2020.
Now I do. Most trusts have seen staff die.
How many would have to die for you to believe it?”
How would you respond to this? Mainly the bit about seeing fellow hospital staff dying from COVID etc as never before.
I’m thinking about when we start ed hearing about COVID in China, North Italy Pple died of rapid spread in hospitals. The whole ‘viral load’ thing.
How could you have stopped rapid spread w’out quarantining?
I’ve been changing my view on COVID since I began reading OG etc., but, little things give me pause to doubt what you’ve said in this article. SoI’d appreciate a response to my question. I sent a tweet about it but no-one responded.
The Grauniad is changing the tone of their gloom, doom, and panic story slightly:
Interestingly, the print version talks about the patients “reluctance to visit hospital” as being a factor (blame the victim), while the online version concentrates on the suspension of treatments.
However, both versions blame the “coronavirus pandemic” rather than the way it has been handled.
Needless to say, that story is not open for comments.
I estimated that given 600,000 die in the UK each year, out of 67 million, and that there are 400,000 front line medics in the NHS, then if the medics died at the average rate we might expect a “normal” a annual death toll of approximately 4 000 medics per year, which translates as 300 per month, and that’s only including front line medics, not all the assistants, porters, admin, cleaners, and managers. OF course medics may be generally fit and young, so maybe the figure might be lower, although perhaps there are risks in infectious wards perhaps. But, hundreds of medics dying each month would not necessarily be so unusual given the large amount of them, likewise hundreds of builders, shop assistants or office workers also die in large amounts since they also are very groups. For the data to have any real meaning we would need to compare the current rate of media’s deaths verses the yearly average rates, otherwise how do we know if they are dying with covid 19 or from it, if the rate of medic’s deaths is similar to an average year that would suggest that despite testing positive they are dying of other things, but without previous years data the seemingly large numbers lack any context or meaning.
Some skepticism hitting the mainstream now: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-
putting-ventilators.html Comments mostly supportive. This article is covering the video that had been posted in the comments.
You make a decent point that the holocaust of frontline health workers is a media fantasy. However I think this exercise is wasted effort from a wider perspective since the data from which these statistics are compiled are mere newspaper reports, which can’t be verified and which I see no reason to take seriously. The most telling aspect of this is the absence of official figures where there ought to be some.
Why are my posts being taken down?
Perhaps a moderator can explain what was wrong with my last factual posting. I thought that the editors of this website stood for freedom of speech and because facts matter.
Please email me with a reply.
Your posts are not being taken down. We don’t take posts down. I can see several of your posts right here and here. You just need to refresh your browser.
Maybe we should have this info added to the the comment form. I don’t know how many times a week I have to say it.
YES I have noticed this- Agree. Add it to the comment form. Whilst I am on here how do I change the picture by my postings to one of my own preference? No one knows how to do this or how , where and why the existing ones come from.
You can’t change the monster avatar on this site as they are all auto-generated. But if you have a gravatar profile and sign in with the appropriate email then your chosen gravatar image will be your avatar.
George Carlin called it right…..I do not believe anything that the government tell me. A cautious and understandable position.
Many countries have now been caught out inflating the death figure for Sars- covid19-2. Why would they do this. Around the world healthcare professionals know that the figures are inflated. It is the only way to keep the hysteria going.
As Mike Pompeo recently said at a press briefing “we are running an exercise” in the background President Trump is heard to say “you should have told us about that”…..Huh… Who can organise a worldwide exercise and pandemic? Dr Fauci and the WHO. Why…..because they are paid to do it….and can do it. Many countries and States in the US have avoided lockdown and are no worse off.
The latest estimate from doctors in the UK put the number of people who have caught the virus at 6 million. Oh dear, the BBC narrative is about to fail, broken on the back of the truth for a change. But still why go to all this trouble for a mild concocted flu virus?
Who wants to control every facet of life worldwide……the Illuminati. Who wants to destroy our culture….the Illuminati. Who wants the world to be under the spell of the Luciferin doctrine…the Illuminati. Who worships the Baphomet…….the illuminati Satanists.
If you do not know who the enemy is, then how can you oppose them? WAKE UP and spread the information, this the for survival of humanity
Sometimes I like venturing out, traveling around, too see what is happening in day-to-day lives, just to get some perspective. I stopped at a gas station, stood in line to pay for my chips, with six working age men in front of me purchasing cases of alcohol, on a Monday afternoon. Ok, it’s a small sample, but I saw this with my very own eyes. It seemed unusual.
In 2017-2018 there were 45 million flu cases in the US.
Here’s some interesting statistics from an October 1, 2018 New York Times article:
“More than 80,000 Americans died of the flu in the winter of 2017-2018, the highest number in over a decade.
Although 90 percent of those deaths were in people OVER age 65, the flu also killed 180 young children and teenagers, more than in any other year since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began using its current surveillance method
The high mortality rate was unusual because it was caused by a “normal” — albeit severe — flu season, not by a new pandemic influenza strain.”
Isn’t it remarkable that a deadly virus killing 80,000 in the US and close to 700,000 worldwide was NOT considered a pandemic by the WHO.
“The flu vaccine was only about 40 percent effective at preventing infection — approximately the same as the previous season’s, according to the C.D.C.
Vaccine effectiveness varies quite a bit each year, from a high of 60 percent in 2010-11 to a low of 19 percent in 2014-2015.
Infectious disease specialists have long expressed frustration that medical science has not come up with a universal lifetime flu vaccine. Currently available vaccines “target the spikes” on the virus’s outer shell, which are the parts that mutate the fastest.” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/health/flu-deaths-vaccine.html
Some research scientists believe one vaccine could be developed to fight multiple viral strains, but pharmaceutical companies are inhibiting its development, inasmuch, as one vaccine would eliminate billions in profits.
“Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we start to deceive”
Flu stats are also questionable.
Tamiflu & Influenza vaccines: more harm than good? https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m626/rr
The article also demonstrates flu vaccinations as contributing to a rise in coronavirus and other respiratory infection.
Flu vaccines are a multibillion dollar industry.
Public Health England (NHS) produced a report for 2017-18 flu season in England only (not including Wales, Scotland, NI) in which they claim a 15% overall effectiveness rate for that year’s flu vaccine:
“Public Health England (PHE) has today (Wednesday, 18 July 2018) published data on the effectiveness of the flu vaccine in the 2017 to 2018 season. The data show that overall, flu vaccine was 15% effective in all age groups. However, effectiveness varied considerably. By age-group, the vaccine was overall:
26.9% effective in children aged 2 to 17 years (who received the nasal spray)
12.2% in at risk groups aged 18 to 64 years
10.1% in those aged 65 and over”
I’ve never taken a flu vaccine and never intend to…..
Me neither. A 1 in 6 chance it will work against the flu. An unknown, censored and highly secretive chance it will cause other serious health issues.
Goodness, if we didn’t know any better, we might be tempted to think that the whole theory surrounding vaccines and infections is completely unfounded.
Isn’t this article missing the point that anyone working for the health service is likely to be under 65. The mortality rates with covid on death certificate are obviously far far lower. ONS figures up 17 Apr
Below 65 -2595
Above 65 -18,314
I’m not cleaver enough to do the maths but to check whether NHS have a lower incident rate the 106 should be set against 2595. So that would be approximately 4% and so higher than the expected 2.5% quoted in this article.
A proper study would compare against all age groups and look at that..then underlying health issues.
A longer article on the age issue and other considerations of this ‘data’ is planned for the near future.
I think it would be interesting if data could be found about average death rates for nhs workers annually, I estimated that if 600,000 approx die in the UK each year, out of 67 million population, and nhs workers make up 1.2 million of those, 400,000 roughly of those are front line medics, then if those medics died at the rate of the average population one might expect a few hundred to die each month, that would be an annual death average of approximately 4,000, that’s only including medics and not cleaners, admin, porters, ect, important to consider since it may be deaths with cv 19 and not from it.
Can you not edit these comments?…with these typos I really don’t sound cleaver at all..let alone clever.
Thanks John. You saved me a lot of typos and broken engwish with that. It was so obvious I can’t imagine writing this article without that.
I think you raised a valid point that deserved a reply from admin. I have done some work on this as well, and another problem is that we have no figures for front line deaths in previous years to compare. I tried to estimate a figure by extrapolation of available data but not sure how reliable it is.
Some factors not yet taken into account which I am sure you would agree to:
1, if we take into account working age figures only then we should also only use the working age figure for the whole population, so NHS staff/total population would be more like 4%
2, OTOH, we should only be looking at frontline NHS staff. This is a hard figure to work out fairly. The stricter we are in the definition, then the higher seems the chances of fatality for them. Well over half, somewhere between half and say 80% of NHS staff normally have patient contact, although a gripe of mine is that in at least some trusts, community teams have declined to visit patients at all and unfortunately also declined to help on the wards.
Two other points:
1. Worth reminding that the study data was compiled entirely from media outlets. There are no official figures.
2. These are still “deaths with Covid” not “from Covid” although for some reason even the HSJ who made the study got that wrong. Maybe they are biased.
The latest Office for National Statistics weekly death figures (week ending 17 April) again show a higher number than the five yearly average for the corresponding week. This is the third consecutive week of higher than average deaths. Prior to these three weeks (weeks ending 3, 10 & 17), there were fewer than average. These three weeks coincide with the government’s “lockdown” measures. The above average number cannot be accounted for by the coronavirus, as there are thousands of non-coronavirus related deaths above the average. The logical inference is that those deaths are the result of the “lockdown” measures.
It is worth repeating: before introducing its “lockdown” measures, the government had made no attempt to assess how many people would die as a result of those measures. This was admitted by Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, at the Coronavirus Daily Update on 10 April 2020. He assured us that he and the Chancellor would immediately look into it. Two and half weeks later, neither he nor the Chancellor, or any other member of the government, has told us how many people will die as a result of the government’s “lockdown” policy. And as far as I can tell, no MP has bothered to ask the question.
Hmm Steve you believe the ONS excess deaths and then you believe they are not SARS-CoV-2 caused.
But you believe they are related to people being stopped from working.
Especially all these people who stopped working and were retired.
Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny even when it didn’t bring you your chocolate eggs this year?
Will you still believe in Santa when he cancels xmas this year and we head off into the hard brexshit fairy land instead?
Dungroanin, The ONS weekly death figures are both valid and reliable. They are simply the sum of the registered deaths. There is nothing to believe about this.
As for the coronavirus related deaths. They are all the registered deaths that mentioned the virus on the death certificate. Note: that does not mean that the virus necessarily caused the death. Thus, the coronavirus related death number is inflated. But I have consistently taken it at face value. And even taking it at face value, there are thousands of deaths above the five yearly average that are non-coronavirus related. Now, those non-coronavirus related above average deaths coincide precisely with the government’s “lockdown”measures. The only logical inference from the ONS data is that they were the result of the government’s “lockdown” measures.
Clearly, you disagree with me. So, perhaps you would like to explain what you think is the cause (or causes) of the non-coronavirus related above average deaths for the weeks ending 3, 10 & 17 April?
So you believe there are 12,000 extra deaths 120% more than expected?
I’m not going to any further unless we agree step by step – for posterity sake.
Ok Stevie baby?
Dungroanin, I have no idea how many times I apparently have to tell you this: the ONS weekly death figures are both valid and reliable. For the week ending 17 April, there were 11, 854 more than the five yearly average for the corresponding week. That is not a matter of belief. It is a fact.
Pls accept my permission to ignore Dungroanin. If only he would be done with his groanin’!
Thanks Harriet for that interjection – how are you getting on with checking the percentage increase of total deaths for w/e 17/4 – is it 20% or 120% ?
Interesting that of thr8,500 alleged covid 19 over 7000 were care home residents, makes me wonder what is going on there, there were reports in the daily mail that residents were asked to sign forms that they wouldn’t be treated in hospitals, but I must look more into that. Even if you accept the covid 19, although given the tests who could, but that still leaves an extra 3000 extra deaths than average
Of course not all care home deaths would be due to the virus only the excess ones could be surmised to be.
To track the reality of how SARS-CoV-2 has affected people through the Death statistics the investigation must start with the victims! So logically – we expect a certain number of deaths and we expect a certain number of causes and we expect a particular demographic,
By overlaying the actual numbers against the expected numbers – we have our first clues.
This takes time as the data comes in and multiple researchers will look at it and peer review it until we have the definitive numbers for history.
In the meantime the above method allows all of us to make an approximate guess.
Great Steve – i’ll label that as Agreed Real Excess Deaths – Fact A, for future reference incase we need to refer to it.
Lets move on with common purpose!
You write about the classification of some of these excess deaths as Covid deaths in death certificates
Because it is actually the OPPOSITE in my understanding.
So to settle that, here is my second question for you.
Have all these who died, been tested for the presence of SARS-Cov-2 or Covid antibodies?
Dungroanin, you ask: “Have all these who died, been tested for the presence of SARS-Cov-2 or Covid antibodies?” The answer is no.
However, before you leap to a conclusion, I would point out that the number of coronavirus related deaths includes those who have tested positive for the virus and those who have been clinically diagnosed as well as those who are merely suspected. The figure includes everyone for whom the death certificate mentions the virus. These facts mean that the coronavirus death number is inevitably inflated as it includes people who died of other causes.
For pretty much every lockdown country, if you plot the deaths by day, most deaths occurred after the lockdowns. Not least because they were doing little to to no testing before lockdowns. So the whole before and after comparison on lockdown is nonsensical. There’s no way to prove or disprove anything.
In Italy there were about 60 frontline worker deaths, most of whom are in the higher age groups. But some who were younger. Would this be normal for a normal year? I don’t know. The ten second search for Italy did not bring up results for deaths in total for previous years but it did bring up contagion for healthcare workers getting infected with measles. I do however think that most deaths are associated with the most chaotic hospitals/healthcare regions.
One thing that got my attention: both the ex-patient zero in Lombardy and a Chinese doctor whose interview I saw on the CGTN channel are marathon runners. The Lombardy guy “Mattia” as he is known here, had been for a run the day before. It turns out that the immune system can weaken in the hours immediately after a marathon (or I suppose whatever counts as over-exertion for your own body). This surprised me, I thought immunity was a stable longer term thing and not a wind vane.
Most healthcare worker infections seem to be concentrated in the chaotic healthcare system places: NYC, Lombardy, Madrid etc. None in Germany and or even in China outside Wuhan. I am going with stress (weakened immune system) and lack of PPE and procedures as my current working hypothesis to explain the deaths.
Hmm Steve you believe the ONS excess deaths and then you believe they are not SARS-CoV-2 caused.
But you believe they are related to people being stopped from working.
Those are your words. Make your point.
Especially all these people who stopped working and were retired.
Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny even when it didn’t bring you your chocolate eggs this year?
Will you still believe in Santa when he cancels xmas this year and we head off into the hard brexshit fairy land instead?
You’re not funny, nor are you clever
Who asked you to reply for Steve? Him? Wait in the queue for your turn
I aim to inform, educate and entertain you are entitled to your opinionas I am.
In the words (?) of the immortal Eric ‘I play all the right notes – just not necessarily in the right order’.
Complain to admin
OFf-Guardian AngelsAdmins number 1 and number2 don’t need for me to complain – they see ALL.
If you want them to set the big bouncy ball onto you – ask them yourself.
Be seeing you 👌
It’s not just people stopped from working, some at risk groups with be suffering from the social distancing : cancelled hospital appointments for treatments, many mentally ill people dependent on support groups, both the physically and mentally ill may be struggling, with being isolated, and with the extra stress, fear and depression, we are talking about thousands at risk, but how many, who knows ? Calls to domestic abuse helplines surged 25%, domestic abuse deaths have doubled, sales of alcohol going up a huge amount, calls to crises helplines increased, calls to 111 increased by 400% since lockdown, the warning signs are there for those looking, andi fear if lockdown and social distancing is kept going for months more the amount at risk could increase more
Agree with all of that – the bit you miss is the follow on from your final sentence.
Risk needs to be assessed and minimised surely?
If R-naught above 1 is a greater danger to people than quarantine side effects, a choice must be made that is justified as the lesser overall measurable harm.
Do you agree?
In other words you can do it another way. Divide the 18,200 by 4 and you have the real amount of people about 4,550 people who have actually died of cvid 19. The rest are fudged in to make it look like more have died. THis also brings it down to flu levels aswell. 20,000 on average die a year in Britain from flu and pneumonia. How many people catch the flu each year? Nobody knows the real answer to that but lets say 33 million half of Britains poulation then that would mean with those deaths then 8 million have had it already and I would say that sounds feasible.
Absolutely, this is the critical question that needs asking by us all, there alarming rises in calls to domestic abuse helplines, domestic abuse deaths have doubled since lockdown, increases to other crisis helplines, reports that ambulances are taking hours to reach people with chest pains, a 400% increase in call volume fire the 111 service, and one wonders about the struggles of those with cancelled hospital appointments, and the mentally ill without any support groups, with the extra worry of stress and depression, which can have its affect too, we must try to get people to realise that risks and harm the lockdowns will be doing, we just don’t yet know the extent of it due to do many being isolated
Relative disease burdens of COVID-19 and seasonal influenza in New York, February 1 – April 18, 2020
Bloody US MDs with their Fake news !@#@!!
What they fail to mention is that infuenza has a vaccine covid19 doesn’t. They also claim that there would be 40% more deaths without influenza vaccine.
It also helps inflate the figures when deaths from any co-morbidity is mandated to be recorded as a Covid-19 death if infection was even suspected. Call it “fudged news.”
I was surprised that the HSJ authors used ‘three separate news outlets and one social media outlet’ as the way they ‘confirmed’ health care workers’ deaths. It can’t be just me who finds that a strange way of gathering data that then gets reported as the truth?
this is the crispy Covid fact check!
Russia had now overtaken China and Iran official covid cases, with over 93,000,
And yet not one mention of this as of 12. 10 CET on RT International website homepage 😷
But not to worry according to Putin everything is under control in Russia 😜
On the contrary, they seem to have been hyping it up and hamming it up non stop, with endless coverage of the Moscow lockdown and figures of new cases. Can’t get them to shut up about it.
My understanding is that COVID-19 kills when it gets into the lungs.
The weekly ONS data kindly has a separate line for deaths marked ‘underlying cause was respiratory disease’ which shows a jump in the cumulative figures over the last 3 weeks of about 1100 people.
So if COVID-19 is not a respiratory killer what is it?
Standard treatment for respiratory disease is fresh air.
If care home staff are absent, because of ‘lockdown’ or ‘self-isolation’ the old people will be kept inside, windows shut, breathing each other’s foul air.
Not viral; just environmental, as usual.
Imagine there was no knowledge of SARS-Cov-2 virus and at the end of the flu season weekly deaths suddenly went from following average total to 60% over for a week, then 80% over for the following week and 120% over for the 3rd week !
Deaths are more than double expected!
Would you think it reasonable to assume something NEW and deadly has arrived within our midst?
Or would you want to argue about what some people thought might just be a ‘minor blip’
There are 12000 MORE people DEAD than the 10000 that normally die.
Yet arseholes keep dripping their shit all over OhGee trying to get people to believe its NOT happening!
How can anyone not see that a more than doubling is a REAL thing?
Dungroanin, the something new and deadly in our midst is the government’s “lockdown” measures. It was only with their implementation that all cause mortality figures rose above the five yearly average for the corresponding period.
How can you not see that nearly 2/3 of those deaths are not at all related to COVID-19? Less car accidents? Less workplace injuries? What are they dying from? Makes the figure even more worrying and the cause is evident.
If people were behaving as normal and attending hospital, screenings, chemotherapy, operations and not living in fear, I bet that number would drop hugely. Figures maybe higher than 5 year average due to COVID but not in any way outside of a bad flu season.
Can I ask you honestly what you think the CMR of COVID is? Do you accept that it is in the realms of 0.1 – 0.3% or is this far more deadly than the mounting evidence suggests?
Protect the vulnerable, sure but economic suicide and the resultant deaths is not ok in my book. The numbers that will potentially die through famine, suicide, stress related disease etc doesn’t bear thinking about. Famine alone could kill 300,000 a day:
Studies also suggest that countries with strict lockdown policies tend to have higher infection rates:
To call anyone that disagrees with your opinion or ‘official figures’ an arsehole is also harsh. You post the ONS figures and your pretty graphs on a site where alternative opinions abound yet you call us the trolls? My livelihood has gone, I question the measures – an arsehole I am not.
“Yet arseholes keep dripping their shit”
Trash talk is troll talk.
You should read what they call me?
So what? You trash your own credibility.
You are only interested in personal gratifications.
Either you don’t want to see what is going on on you are invested in ‘dripping your shit’ here for your own reasons.
Fear distorts. But it is also fuel for control agenda that can only run in the dark.
I haven’t seen anyone call you anything, but they do ask you questions you can’t answer, which then provokes you to scatalogical abuse
I was hoping that perhaps the first thing you would have done in responding to my query would be to provide various links to sites and data points that explained COVID-19 was not a respiratory infection, and so I could conclude that it was appropriate that it did not appear under that section in the weekly death figures. The fact that you have not, leaves my initial understanding unchallenged.
We then move on to what could be the cause of the huge spike in deaths. Your conclusion appears to be that it is something new and deadly and, because we are told it’s COVID-19, then that is what it must be. I’m sorry but because of my first paragraph here, that currently is not a satisfactory answer for me.
Turning to your final observation. I must confess I’m rarely disappointed by the inability of those convinced of their own rightness to avoid throwing out insults.
What insult did i throw at you RTB?
Covid -19 is an illness that is related to SARS-CoV-2 a NEW virus.
Who knows what other illnesses it causes to kill – all that can be researched by hundreds of thousands of trained researchers across the world in due course.
There are hundreds of new papers daily – go look them up.
Over the weeks as the facts have emerged and the virus spread from supposedly China first – my opinion too has changed. From believing it wasn’t as serious to being convinced it must be.
My comments here will show that trajectory since January.
Given that Off-G took a definitive position that there was much hype about it – i looked into in detail and have proved to my satisfaction that it is real enough to take precautions especially by these in the vulnerable groups mainly the old with preexisting health issues.
My conclusion was that it would soon be settled by seeing if any significant number of excess deaths were occurring in line with the standard model of exponential growth to decide whether it was real and dangerous.
Hence the ONS numbers of deaths – regardless of the causes – are the best way of determing that theory. It is so determined and the results are in there are an exceptional number of Excess deaths. QED.
But it seems there’s a cohort here on Off-G, who don’t say where they are, or their personal circumstances. Yet insist on pushing the narrative even though it has been overtaken by the reality of total excess deaths! It really needs s like trying to explain to a frozen manchild that there really is no Santa but they refuse to believe ut be ause SA ra promised them their hearts desire when they grew up!
The fact that this first wave started at the end of our flu season has been a lucky escape for tge UK – because if SARs-CoV-2 does produce strains that will cause new infections like the annual flu and cold does and it hits at the next flu season – we will be heading for a double whammy next winter. And if it coincides with a hard brexshit we will indeed have an even harder time.
You may think it OK to potentially let hundreds of thousands of Brits die to increase the herd immunity when it could have been much less – as in Germany – but I value life a bit more than that, even the old and infirm.
Translation: ‘I have a personal investment in this narrative that transcends my ability to think rationally’.
What is the ‘personal investment in a narrative ‘ you refer to?
Should my refusal to partake in a echo chamber be censored? I believe it is encouraging a too early abandonment of largely self imposed quarantine, which would lead to the actual implementation of the draconian powers just taken by the Executive and thus lodge them as valid and give them what they want.
What is the accusation of irrationality if not an ad hominem?
Does Off-G have an opinion on the excess deaths that are now more than adequately confirmed and the failure of this government to implement testing, tracing and early isolation that has led us to so many unnecessary deaths? Unlike Germany.
The msm have been playing their part in the charade to underplay the death numbers and only now have to start admitting them because they could not stop the ONS publishing. The return of bozo timed to take away from the shock of the scale – our sacrifice he says. Sacrifice!
It is inevitable that mass testing will have to be implemented as there is in Germany, probably door to door in London and other Urban areas, as many otherwise will not be tested. A army of people will need to be recruited and trained to achieve sufficient testing to keep on top of the infection rate, as in Kerala, and be in position for a probable deadlier second wave in the winter in confluence with the flu.
I believe that we can be a long way towards an eradication of the spread in 30 days time and many parts of the country moving towards normality. Here in London it is going to take longer.
I personally am fit and healthy but many I know are at risk. They would never return from hospitalisat and are unable to face the serious treatment and untried medication. If you mean that is my narrative- yup i’m invested to the hilt!
What caused these excess deaths?
Dungroanin, I don’t think that many here are denying that there’s a very bad flu this season (which may or may not be due to the mild winter in the northern hemisphere this year). What people question is that going by official stats it’s no worse than previous flu pandemics, and in previous flu pandemics the entire global economy was not shut down, and more than half of global population was not effectively put under house arrest.
Covid 19 comes right on top of the collapsing global economy (which started going into serious collapse last September). This collapse has been caused by rampant greed and a pandemic of corruption in governments, the judiciary and the media.
You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what’s going on.
If that was the world total it would mean something, but it is for the UK only, so it is not related to any international pandemic
People with respiratory/heart disease are not being given the respiration they normally would (cpac etc.) because the normal respirators work via aerosol and the doctors were told that cov-2 can be transmitted via aeresol (even though there is no evidence that it can).
…consequently, they wait until the patient deteriorates to the point of needing a ventilator. If the patient survives the ventilator, the lungs will likely be damaged. So, instead of helping the patient, the new protocols prohibit assistance. That’s what I heard from med personnel.
This fits with many accounts but it’s really a logical and obvious consequence of the clinical model they’ve developed. We didn’t need to see it happening to know it would.
I don’t know what to call it other than institutionalised mass euthanasia.
That could possibly be explained by the funding attached to patients. For example in the u.s $5000 for influenza patient, $13000 for covid 19 patient but $39000 for a covid 19 patient who requires a ventilator
Please tell me where you re looking, I can’t find 1100 anywhere. The underlying cause respiratory line seems to be very stable around 1,600 p w. Am I missing something?
Sorry my error in not being clear. I added together the excess over the normal 1500/1600 per week for the last 3 weeks and then threw in another 200 so I couldn’t be accused of rounding the numbers down.
Hope that clarifies.
A few quotes follow from the ONS website.
Curious wording from an organisation that used to pride itself on objectivity. My uppercase added to highlight the main ‘weasel words’.
“Of the deaths registered in Week 16, 8,758 MENTIONED “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)””
“In London, over half (55.5%) of deaths registered in Week 16 INVOLVED COVID-19”
“The number of deaths INVOLVING COVID-19 INCREASED, while the number of deaths FROM “Influenza and Pneumonia” DECREASED”
Zero sum game.
“Of deaths INVOLVING COVID-19 registered up to Week 16, 77.4% (14,796 deaths) occurred in hospital with the remainder occurring in care homes, private homes and hospices.”
And worst of all, since the ‘lockdown’:
“The number of OVERALL DEATHS IN CARE HOMES for Week 16 was 7,316; this is 2,389 higher than Week 15, almost double the number in Week 14 and ALMOST TRIPLE THE NUMBER IN WEEK 13.”
Something is wrong here. Covid is not mentioned. Are the poor buggers dying of neglect because of hysterical carers staying at home?
“deaths where both (COVID-19 and “Influenza and Pneumonia”) were mentioned (on death cert.) have been counted ONLY in the COVID-19 category.”
Not ‘diagnosed, just ‘mentioned’. But they count it as Covid ‘involvement’ anyway.
And their final ‘get out of jail free’ card:
“All figures for 2020 are PROVISIONAL.”
Obviously rather than just present the data as they have done for ever – they have been encouraged to present them in the new fashion and their man has been sent on the airwaves to hide the basic headline number of TOTAL DEATHS registered for the week. Regardless of the cause of death.
For the weeke ending 17th April 2020, there are 120% MORE deaths registered than expected.
In absolute terms 12,000 MORE people were registered to have died in that week than the approximate 10,000 expected – a total of 22,000.
Squirm as much as you like and try and find something to discredit what these extra deaths are caused by but you can not deny something is killing all these extra people.
Lets not forget with the shut down in normal life there are fewer road and work related accidents and fewer deaths from elective surgeries…
It’s been repeatedly stated exactly what is killing those extra people. Lockdown is killing those extra people. Don’t believe me? Even the Torygraph has said lockdown has already caused 10,000 excess deaths, and that a 2nd and 3rd wave of nonCV19, lockdown-related deaths are expected:
‘A new analysis by Edge Health, a leading provider of data to NHS trusts, warns that a second and then a third wave of “non-corona” deaths are about to hit Britain. Unless radical solutions can be found to resume normal service and slash waiting lists, the NHS may be forced to institute a formal regime of rationing.
The “second wave” is already breaking. It is made up of non-coronavirus patients not able or willing to access healthcare because of the crisis. Based on ONS and NHS data, Edge Health estimates these deaths now total approximately 10,000 and are running at around 2,000 a week. ‘
Great how do they account for the other 10,000 for the week endin 17/4?
Just found this strand.
Mate the excess was mainly caused by kicking the elderly with hai’s,mrsa,flu,covid,etc out of the hospitals into a set up with no follow up care.
Anecdotally, but admittedly with no proof,scotland in the 4 weeks after lovkdown sufferred bigh on 70% of its death toll through care homes.
It was lockdown,not covid
Putting very ill people into care homes then denying basic care was manslaughter.
It wasn’t just covid.
It was a multitude of diseases being unleashed on the most vulnerable
I hope every supporter of lockdown understands they weren’t protecting the elderly, but exposing them to a biological nightmare….
Wait for aprils deaths to come out on ONS website. They should be hitting 65,000 with the extra 20,000 in April from covid deaths. If the figures dont go up significantly then all of a sudden there will be an unprecedented fall in normal deaths which average 45,000 for april. Will be fun to see this figure in a months time.
Another amazing piece of pseudo-science by Off-G. Clearly this analysis is completely wrong, since it doesn’t take account of age.
Only 13% of COVID-19 deaths occur in under 65s. (ONS) There have been 20000 deaths so far, hence 2600 in under 65s.
Let’s be generous and call it 2% of under 65s work for the NHS (including alll suport staff like cleaners that make up much more than half the NHS work-force, but account for only a tiny fraction of NHS deaths (majority are nurses and doctors), so being extremely generous). That means we expect to see 2600 * 2% = 52 deaths among NHS staff. Instead we see double that. Another funny attempt by Off-G to subvert facts, or maybe it’s just stupidy, not sure.
I think that this article would have been better for the acknowledgement of the demographics argument. However, the media presentation of the disease tends itself to neglect this aspect, in favour of trying to scare the living shit out of everyone, be they child, young adult or elderly, so let’s keep things in context.
It’s not pseudoscience as I understand it. Fergusson’s hidden computer model is pseudoscience. At least OffG show their calculation for those who wish to make an argument.
When it comes to stats, let me admit to being on thin ice from the get-go, so I’m always keen to be corrected if I get something wrong. But if I understand your argument correctly: You begin with the accurate, if overly snarky, observation that the Off-Guardian analysis is skewed by not taking age into account (or other risk factors, I might add). But then your calculations appear to assume that all NHS-worker deaths were among under-65s. Which seems to be a mistake very similar to the one you criticized.
Corrections and deserved head-smacks invited and welcomed, as always…
It’s not generous saying 2% of under 65s work for the NHS, considering that 2.5% of the entire population works for the NHS. Let’s say 3% then. That would give you 78 deaths. This is more than the number of frontline workers, 70.
What we don’t know is how many of these were 65 and over, which could lower the result. If we assume it’s zero, then difference is less dramatic if you look at it this way, but it still demonstrates that the melodrama around frontline worker deaths is fake news.
Heres a fact check for all you armchair experts – put it in your pipe and smoke it!
“The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 17 April 2020 (Week 16) was 22,351; this represents an increase of 3,835 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 15) and 11,854 more than the five-year average; this is the highest weekly total recorded since comparable figures begin in 1993.”
It is telling that it has taken me 20 mins of digging to get that basic fact from the ONS website – there is a lot more flak and smoke about care home figures and covid numbers this week, to HIDE the above damning sentence.
My opinion – nearly 12k more than average; ‘only’ nearly 4k more than the previous week – imagine what they would be without the quarantine self isolation since 20 March in the coming weeks? Given that most of these Excess deaths to the 17/4 would have involved infection by the time the lickdiwn measures were introduced on 20/3.
Bring on the troll army and Off-G ‘experts’ – where’s Iain Davis follow up? Is Kit typing furiously?
It makes sense there will be increased deaths over the average, I don’t deny some of them may be due to a novel virus, some of them will also definitely be due to the lockdown – people scared to go to ER’s, postponed medical treatments, suicides, loneliness… of course there will be less road accidents etc to offset this somewhat but the effects of the lockdown aren’t all good and could even be more damaging. I don’t think it’s surprising there are more deaths than usual irrespective of the lethality of the virus.
You don’t think a 120% increase is surprising? Or the 80% and 60% for the prior weeks?
Where did you learn that kind of thinking?
One can respect numbers and percentages without allowing them to completely short circuit one’s reasoning. These are high numbers and high percentages for a two week period. But wouldn’t it be of some value to “Lie down…see what tomorrow brings” (as an old song suggests) before labeling every opinion contrary to the official narrative as entirely unsupportable?
If I linked herein to every article and video by every epidemiological and virological expert I’ve seen within the past month which questions the official narrative, I’d be scrambling for links for the next six hours.
I’m delighted sooooo many new faces (?) want to ask me their so many differing (not) quesstions and than disappear when i do , by yet another interlocutor.
Why would you need to scramble for links to your experts who said there are real excess deaths acroos the world when you can find most of them in article after article on this OFf-G site?
But if it makes you feel that it may help to destroy my simple statement of FACTS , please go ahead and list them for us and what and why you believe what they say?
What do you think caused the excess deaths?
I asked Dung that too….no reply.
The silence of the sheep.
Hold your horses Crank – i have other demands on my time too.
I have had plenty of replies to answer and aim to do so and make new observations too.
I believe the excess deaths are definitely due to a pandemic of a brand new virus SARS-CoV-2 for which there is obviously no preexisting herd immunity or specific medication for the new illness it causes in the majority of its serious cases, Covid-19, especially these with particular pre-existing conditions.
If you believe all these excess deaths are due to covid, aren’t you arguing against the facts?
Week 16, 3000 excess deaths not attributed to covid. Week 15, 1800. Also, covid excess deaths are codes U07.1 and U07.2 – which means probable/suspected cases are lumped with test-positive cases. This creates a significant grey area.
What do you think is causing these non-covid excess deaths?
Are all deaths checked for SARS-Cov-2 infection?
I’m confident they are not and many are therfore missed.
It is proved there are infected who are asymptomatic for covid illness, (obviously how many is currently a matter of speculation and interpretation based on the odd study here and there) but such cases do exist. It is now also evident the virus attackeds other organs, based on the presence of cells rich in the ACE2 receptors. There may be others.
Causing heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure etc.
Such cases would be missed as virus caused.
Hence looking at the total deaths and comparing them to expected deaths would highlight such anomalies in every category of death (which isn’t covid) and lead to verification.
Such data will not be long in coming out. We’re still in the early years of discovery and our only guide is if there are excess deaths and in investigating why? It is correct to try and prove they are NOT caused by the new virus. Which fact is not proved by the failure to test all deaths for SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Do you have contradictory information to that ?
So you are happy to doubt the evidence in favour of your POV. I see.
I answered your question of what I thought was the cause of the non – covid deaths – namely the same virus that causes covid.
You on the other hand didn’t answer my question or you did by asking another question.
I was practicing transactional analysis probably before most people at Off-G were born.
What other evidence do you have which I have not addressed?
Will you give me an answer so i can follow it up tomorrow?
Goodnight. Be seeing you 👌
You may have overlooked something which could put these death numbers you seem so preoccupied with in perspective: death is not an On-Demand activity (at least not yet). That being the case, it is entirely plausible that more people died in any given week than what is statistically normal.
Perhaps we should also take into account the admittedly indelicate matter of how long it takes someone to die. If one patient takes a couple days, another takes a week, a third takes two weeks – they may all three end up dying not only in the same week but on the same day. We must ask death not to be so proud as to skew the purity of our statistics.
Nearly two thirds again not mentioning COVID-19:
Of the deaths registered in Week 16, 8,758 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which is 39.2% of all deaths; this compares with 6,213 (33.6% of all deaths) in Week 15.
That is 13,589 deaths of the 22,351 not attributed to COVID. That is in itself is higher than the 5 year average. That figure could be even higher if the debate of from or with is applied. How many of those could have been saved without the lockdown and fear? We will never know but worth keeping a very close eye on Sweden:
Not denying there is an excess death event going on but is the cure not worse than the disease?
Extrapolating from Scotland, UK currently has 5,000 deaths a week from people unwilling or unable to call for an ambulance to go to hospital.
Added to that, imagine what they would be with some consistent and transparent coding system which would distinguish OF, FROM, and BECAUSE of the C19 disease. I imagine that they would be considerably lower without a lockdown but with a sensible isolation (and support of !) of the vulnerable in care homes at in their own homes.
And finally, your and my imagination mean little or nothing in light of the fact that there is not any transparency or accountability for the path that this UK government has taken. Science is by definition an open and falsifiable approach, black box computer models drafted by secret cabals of ‘SAGES’ is not science. So we are left with ‘imaginations’ and a lot of dead people.
How do you imagine the break down of food supply chains and a crushing depression is going to affect the mortality rates?
We don’t have to imagine what the government could have done differently for a different outcome (a 120% increase in deaths just fir one week!)
Just look at Germany and their total excess deaths so far!
I am looking at Sweden and Japan to be honest.
Today’s figures show 3,000 excess deaths NOT attributed to c19. Attributed to what then? Lockdown, that is what. That proportion will increase, even with their efforts to hide them in the ‘Covid numbers’. It is the only way that these UK numbers fit with the serology results emerging around the world, and it is clear from the exposes of the coding cover up that a proportion of attributed deaths are WITH and BECAUSE OF C19.
Scream all you want Dungroanin, it’s a case of How To Lie With Statistics
“120% increase in deaths”
Huh. Just to be clear, a “120%” increase means (to choose a simple example) an increase from 10 to 22.
An increase from 10 to 12 would be a 20% increase.
One could also say, more precisely, that 12 is 120% of 10 (because the base, 10, makes up the 100%).
But that is not the same thing as a 120% *increase*.
Percent is a multiplication function, not an addition function. A percent is calculated by means of multiplication (in the above example, 10 x 1.2 [move the decimal point two places to the left, because 120% actually means 120/100, or 1.2]).
Oh Harriet thank you so much for explaining that if deaths went up from ten thousand to twelve thousand for the week that would mean a 20% increase.
Can you please tell us what the percentage increase would be if they went up from ten thousand to twenty two thousand for the week?
I think I just did that.
Can you state it again please and can you then go back and look at the ACTUAL numbers I stated and then come back and tell us whether they indicate 20% or a HUNDRED AND TWENTY%.
Many many thanks for clarifying.
From today’s stats. well over half of the excess deaths registered in care homes have NOT mentioned Covid. These are lockdown deaths caused by the policies of full population quarantine, denying elders medical treatment, deliberate scaremongering, excessively emptying hospitals, coercive and mandatory DNR orders.
I say its rigged.
If they lied about calling what happened in Ireland a famine which was a calculated genocide for anyone with a working brain to understand.
They’d lie about anything else..
Are you seriously saying there was no famine in Iteland?
Think it was just a particularly nasty flu season?
It was a genocide. Brits have been brainwashed to think it was a famine. And the rest of the world by the lack of knowledge of it.
Using emoji s shows lack of intelligence and high in ignorance.
The famine started with the failure of the potato harvest because of a fungus. The Irish had already been half starved and robbed of t heir lands centuries before, with Cromwell’s conquest. It became a genocide and case of ethnic cleansing when wheat, of which there was plenty, and other foodstuffs were exported by English landowners.
“According to the economist Cormac O’ Grada, more than 26 million bushels of grain were exported from Ireland to England in 1845, a “famine” year. … Other exports from Ireland during the “famine” included peas, beans, onions, rabbits, salmon, oysters, herring, lard, honey and even potatoes.Sep 27, 1997″
If you’re making a laugh about the millions that died in Ireland
Why do you give a fuck about this so called killer virus?
I don’t know about the UK but lots of deaths are being count twice. Due to ’emergency’ deaths are being reported before confirmation and then again after to pad the fear machine. Don’t believe any of the numbers, msm or not. Go outside breath that (semi) fresh air, it’s a great time to be outside rn
Except for the rain. Gardens needed it though … 🙂
The ONS is a neutral body not under political control and itsjib is to collect and record all the numbers for Parliament and for use by government departments and many academic and othet institutions – it will be doubg a census next year.
They count the births and deaths and ARE the official record, which can be verified going back a century.
Wherever you live, the error you imply is not possible with the ONS
That really doesn’t help if the official record is wrong, does it? If deaths are being misrecorded, that isn’t the ONS fault. They are just collating the data. But the data is wrong. So therefore, the ONS number of COVID deaths are wrong too.
Kindly explain how a Registration of a Death of a real person is misrecorded?
Please do. You guys have lit a massive petard. The chindits go for glorious ignomy!
Huzzah never mind the Light Brigade charging into the canons – the 77th will be looking for a propaganda poem of their own now.
@john the rain isn’t so bad, went for a hike in the rain this weekend, found some yellow morels under a beautiful elm tree by a river. A most delicious find.
Anyone not seen this yet, I highly recommend it – as a resource for discussion of statistics relative to other years, and as a breakdown of this year’s mortality numbers :
Saying that, we need to be getting on with a conversation that starts with, “the lockdown had nothing to do with the virus…”.
Food supply chains seem to be the next stage of the crisis, do we agree ?
Where’s the WITH. or FROM graph ?
I have not seen one anywhere.
The problem is with those > 70s or 80s NHS staffers; they are indestructible health freaks, even without masks. The group making this warped are the non patient-contact NHS administrative folks, more health conscious than your average accountants in lockdown.
So here’s the thing about the lack of testing. Aapologies if this has been stated already, but it’s something I’ve only seen mentioned but I feel hasn’t been well understood. So lets explore.
We should first set some fixed variables to explore why testing will actually show up this hoax despite all the talk of faulty tests, contaminated tests etc. The variable we fix is the fatality count (FC) of lets say 200,000 despite how inaccurate it is (but seeing as it’s inaccurate in favour of the agenda ot gives us a worse case idea). Using the FC we can explore how variable results from mass testing can indicate why the lockdown and other measures are unnecessary (and frankly wilfully destructive).
Starting with positive cases. If we have mass testing and it is seen that alot of ppl test positive (TP, falsely or otherwise) when deriving case fatality rate (CFR), a bigger TP numerator over FC will give you a very small CFR. For example, If mass testing shows that instead of globally only 2 million TP cases we have 200 million (not unreasonable as thats still only about 3 percent of global population) then the CFR will be 200,000,000/200,000 which is equivalent to 1 in 1000, which is the same range as seasonal flu (0.1 CFR). This means most ppl are resistant to this virus and we shouldn’t be destroying lives and livelihoods to avoid it.
Ok what if tests show most ppl are tesing negative (TN)? Well ok if it turns out that after mass testing about 4 million TP (even with false negatives, remember if the test is faulty and there are actually more TP then we can evaluate with the previous section) to give 4,000,000/200,000 or 1 in 10, which is significant. But here’s the thing they’ve told us this covid thing has probably been around since the start of winter (which makes this lockdown ridiculous on that basis alone) and since its been with us from then and only 0.06% of ppl in the world have it then it means that despite the high CFR the virus itself is not very contagious as not many ppl get it (as our hypothetical numbers show). Again invalidating the need for lockdown/social distancing.
Lets say for arguments sake they manipulate the numbers (using their faulty tests) to fall somewhere in the middle of the above. Well that would mean lets say 100 million TP. So 100,000,000/200,000 or 0.2 CFR. That still relfects a severe flu season and nothing more, moreover it effects even less of the world at 1.5 %.
Without mass testing we have the numbers we see today which I believe is mostly artificial (especially the TP numbers) to give it just enough of potential to scare. Without mass testing we’re left with Ferguson from Imperial College’s models that he keeps “adjusting” seemingly to benefit the government lockdown agenda. In fact we’ve seen that based on Ioannidis that its probably more a case of high TP/FC.
As an aside, I think that all the talk of contaminated tests that give you “covid” is exacerbating the low testing as ppl are reluctant to push for more testing. I personally wouldn’t want to be tested either way as it just feeds this agenda.
Sorry, I may have got my fractions reversed, but hopefully you still get the picture.
Gah, also I meant 1 in 20 for the test negative scenario.
I was under the impression that Britain’s NHS workers were too busy creating and uploading videos to TikTok of their dancing, in which they display carefully choreographed and coordinated moves, to actually be on the “frontline” working all hours, day in and day out, and tending to their families when the opportunity arises.
Is it just me or does anyone else think these videos are all actually staged using unemployed actors?
Clearly not paying attention! Clearly those are ghosts of our valiant frontline heros, returned to lift the spirit of coronablitz blighted Britain.
(disclaimer: Outside of this farce, nurses do perform life changing tasks and in the UK at least are very undervalued, both financially and in appreciation)
Jeez, now that you have enlightened me, those ghosts did look very pale – not a single Nigerian, Kenyan or other African-looking nurse ghost among them, in spite of all I have read about the NHS being supposedly heavily reliant on nurses from Third World nations.
Forgive my jumping in here uninvited; but I can’t help wondering if those dancing nurses might be the self same nurses out in force in Colorado to stop protesters in their tracks. After all, many nurses do require a second income.
Although I am with Off-G in thinking this virus is a load of hyped up bollocks, I too was suspicious of those dance videos. They do seem a bit too well choreographed. I reckon they are drummed up for gaslighting, part of which may be to set everyone up for a fraud that will be revealed as “conspiracy nuts” staging deliberately misleading videos i.e. a double bluff. Again this is something already tested in 9/11 where some skeptic sites turn out to be offiially funded disinfo organisations.
I am suspicious that the purpose of these videos, as AnonSkeptic hints at in an earlier comment, is to inhibit criticism of the NHS and the way its bureaucrats have dealt with the system over the years, bleeding it dry of funds, and perhaps also to portray NHS workers in an unrealistic light so as to prevent actual NHS workers’ criticism of their working conditions from becoming public. After all, if those dancers are so happy, how can NHS workers be complaining about what they have to endure?
These so called heath care workers treat people like cattle. Time to dance but no time for the taxpayer who has cancer.
You guts are channeling the daily Fail from last week !
When Luke Harding writes in the Guardian you know that it is a primer for the deep state agenda. I suggest if you’ve time you read this:
We’ve had the lock-down’s tough love, “stay safe”.. “stay home” unnecessary nonsense etc..etc. Now expect your return to the new normal to be full of “tough rules” and fines.
As is abundantly clear now, the lock-down has had no effect on the spread of the virus. Or the stubbornly normal mortality rates – except a rise in co-morbidity cases where the elderly have not bee able to get treatment for other diseases and ailments.
The government clearly realises this, and here is presented the next stage for, shall we call it “the emergence”? And it’s not the bright sunny days of picnics and BBQ’s; parties and drinks with your mates round the pub that might have sustained you through the dark days of isolation. No it’s more of the same, but worse…
What we have laid out here by Luke Harding is from one of the advisers to the UK Government. Eyal Winter, an economist at Lancaster University, who is part of a team of behavioural experts that have been advising the government since April. Behaviourism is a regression to the early part of the last century and has clear links to the right, police states and the authoritarianism which goes along with them.
No, no, the part of Tintin Harding’s article reads thus:
Winter is predicting that crime and violence will jump after the lockdown. Kahneman has nothing to do with this prediction.
Yes that’s correct – I miss read that. Thanks for correcting it Jen. But the message from the Deep state brought by Harding means the same and indicates the UK is moving from lockdown to lockup. I understand Johnson was saying the same yesterday.
Getting out of the lockdown looks like it will be much more difficult than most had thought.
Too negative. Once a certain percentage of us monkeys realise it was all bollocks from the start, public feeling (and consequently behaviour) will change dramatically.
Looks like youtube pulled Part One of the interview with the two CA doctors that was at over 4 million views. Part Two is still up.
See what u mean Maxwell, they were near 5,ooo ooo last time i looked. I downloaded both parts, must be some way i can make them available, while retaining privacy, if necessary . All that’s good =)
Is there any way you could get that video to me I wonder. Wish I’d also copied all these things.
Can you send that over if you are able to download it?
Youtube also pulled Pedogate 2020
Do you recall the title of the video, or have a good description? I’ve been able to find new copies of videos posted after earlier ones were pulled just from searching title and/or key descriptors. I’d be interested to search for what you’re referring to.
Are these the two you are referring to? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNnlSP7mWek
I just saw there is a link to an hour+ long talk from these 2 and wondering whether, if this is who you mean, then maybe Part 1 is the beginning of that.
Yes- it is those two doctors.
has the whole thing in one with sound improvement
at this moment in time 😉
…and it’s gone!
US Election in November, gotta get rid of the truth.
Given that Fox are now pushing this (see below), it’s beginning to look like a multilayered wag the dog.
BTW: I still think it’s an important video and that both doctors are genuine. It’s just that I’m questioning Fox’s role.
These are two related vids by HighImpactVlogs which I think are also important.
How Did EVERYBODY Miss the CRAZY CR*P These Viral Doctors Spewed?
26 Apr 2020
IMPORTANT! You Can Bet Your AZZ We’re NEXT if We Don’t Stand Up For These Doctor’s Right to SPEAK!
28 Apr 2020
Texas governor will allow state’s stay-at-home order to end on Thursday and open businesses Friday
Gov. Abbott’s order to reopen the Texas economy, explained
It’s a start but they’re still clinging to the fear of this fraud.
Houston temporary medical shelter may close without treating a single patient
HOUSTON – Channel 2 Investigates has learned Harris County Commissioners could pull the plug on the temporary medical shelter at NRG Park as early as next week.
The facility, with a potential price tag of $60 million, was designed by Garner Environmental Services, a Deer Park company, to help with a surge of coronavirus patients at the Texas Medical Center. But that surge never materialized and the facility sits empty right now.
guardian-style censorship alert:
Moderation apparently but pyroclastic clouds must remain cold. Bathtubs remain intact and barium and strontium in dust is perfectly normal. Nothing was hot. Nothing on seismographs either, just to be sure. One wonders who might ban OffG from what server/host/whatever?
What entity has the power to take down OffG? Why does OffG need to moderate?
Lol , mate
I’ve been doghoused too in recent days like young Milo is.
It’s the big bouncing white balloon of this Village – the top Numbers go to sanction.
At least Milo got an admission that Number 2 had personally ‘flagged’ Milo.
I got told it was just a ‘system error’ that they have no control over.
A very revealing exchange that ended with silence from the guardian angels … which i feel was a fitting end. This time.
The first rule of censorship is don’t talk about censorship.
Milosevic is everyman. All of us indy minded denizens of the Alt-Media and bloggers we trust.
(Ignore the 77th troll troops who wear the mask obvs)
Our freedom of speech is daily ratcheted across the old and new mediums.
Look at the action against a 100% genuine independent journalist and blogger Craig Murray by the States deployment of their version of the big white balloon.
You’d have thought ANY independent journalist or publisher or Alt Media site (such as O-G / Grayzone etc) would be interested in it and republishing Murray in support and raising an alarm!
But tumbleweed from most – the first rule of doublespeak …
Be seeing you 👌
(Ps grayzone have written on Murray and interviewed him for their piece – most others are keen to 👀 away)
Really? How much does CM the sheepdog pay for your unquestioning sycophancy?
Too much home brewing must have burnt your synapses pisshead. Are you happily libelling ‘Murray’ ? What are your wages? Want to hire me to stop? Make me an offer I can’t refuse !
I asked you before but you have decided to land here instead of there – befuddled? Got too much April sun? Go lay down in a cool dark room for a few days and contemplate your lying diseased doomed soul!
I would like OG to bounce posts that indulge overt personal insult – preferably with an auto response that indicates a need to make a point without it.
Or at least comment to anyone using the forum to insult and smear, that they need to make their points with respect and addressing the issues – not attacking the person.
Binra me old deat thats ever so succinct for you.
As you may have noted – or maybe not – I never initiate ad hominem. But after a few times of following your sage advice it becomes necessary to speak in the language and tone spoken to one.
You initiate ad hom every time you’re asked a question you can’t answer, or every time you feel bested or cornered.
Murray has some pretty draconian moderators. I have seen entire swathes of comments removed, some of my own getting swept up in the dust. There have also been incredibly nasty and sly right wing trolls and gaslighters all over his site. Posting there is like joining the red shirt gal swimmer at the beginning of “Jaws”
Agreed about the trolls and i too have had posts removed either for being off topic or verging on ‘anti-semiotic’ or 911 conspiracies.
I have had to evolve my style to get the message through.
12.000 excess deaths for w/e 17/4!
People ought to be marching on No10 ready to drag Bozo, Cummings and co to Tyburn!
@dungroanin – It takes a certain amount of irony-blindness to drone on for this long about how you are being censored.
at 11am today boris will hold a silenceathon for the fallen nhs soldiers
it is true
and general noisy bastards
will be recorded by are groin zap 5g phased array tel aviv tech x ray monitors
every clap you direct at the nhs undead will have social credit score implications and could effect your future ability to get bank loans food stamps or discounted adult pampers Pour homme nappies
so lets have 666 secs of silence for the hospital dance teams sims who did not make it
or maybe they did
Its called “techno-terrorism”, in fashion at the moment …… or perhaps “coronavirus correctness” if you prefer. My favourite is “digital dictatorship”.
It’s a news dance, ladies and gentlemen, and it’s all the rage:
You lock them up,
you lock them down,
You run them all to ground,
You do the sheeple pokey
And you turn around,
That’s what it’s all about.
I bang my pan,
I holler out:
Stay in, stay in
Never, ever out!
I do the sheeple pokey
Then I turn around
And that’s my exercise.
Whoa, the sheeple pokey
Whoa, the sheeple pokey
Whoa, the sheeple pokey
Knees bend, arms stretch,
Baa, baa, baa!
Prime ministers cameo appearance:
Bojo in a set of can-can knickers
(Best left to the imagination).
By remarkable coincidence, the man who invented the Hokey Kokey died last week. His family were traumatised getting his body into the coffin etc…;-)
Are you here all week?
How’s the veal ?
Frontline doctors says time to open up:
I’ve worked the coronavirus front line — and I say it’s time to start opening up
Great stuff! Keep it up. Many thanks.
I note other people’s comments about the differences in age range of NHS staff v the most vulnerable age group for covid deaths (Presumably the very elderly). But I’ve been intrigued by the most recent data on excess mortality in European countries from https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps, and England’s excess deaths in the 15-64 year age range stick out like a very sore thumb. Curious. Anyone got any theories?
Overuse / earlier use of ventilators by the NHS?
The winter months were on the low side. Plus it is the area under the curve that represents the number of deaths; this is a highish but narrow peak. Finally, these charts only go back to 2016. I’d like to see older data. Sites like http://inproportion2.talkigy.com are putting this kind of data into longer-term perspective.
Read my comment in https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/26/this-week-in-the-guardian-5-coronavirus-special/
I explain how confusing for people EuroMOMO numbers and graphs are and that pronounced narrow peaks in weekly mortality in 2020 do not indicate any high excess seasonal mortality as FT tried to insinuate. In fact all cause 2029-2020 deaths in EU is about third to half of 2016-2017 bad flu season.
As far as 15-64 deaths I cannot speculate about NHS flu data but CDC found this influenza season highest on record flu hospitalization and deaths among people in this age group.
Another, at this point speculative argument would be direct result of medial fear mongering, restricting physical exercises and exposure to sun (deficiency of Vitamin D) reducing intellectual activity related to working and learning, increase socioeconomically induced extreme stress and psychological depression and panic as well as overall quite poor state of heath of population with massive chronic diseases and severe preexisting conditions even in 15-64 age group.
In a way the entire Pandemic hysteria may have pushed fragile people across the line, a common pandemic phenomenon of creating victims of not pathogen, but victims of draconian socioeconomic system response to pandemic.
Thanks Kalen. I’m not insinuating that the graph shows a high seasonal excess mortality, and that that must be due to covid19. Far from it. According to the data, there was a surge in deaths in the younger age group only seen in England, not seen in any other European country incl the other uk countries, which suggests that it wasn’t directly due to covid19, but probably indirectly. Like you, I think the gov response has been hugely detrimental to health.
As you say, N, the surge in the England figures stands out like a sore thumb. It makes you wonder if it’s a case of finding what ‘they’ are looking for. England is so desperate to prove there is a crisis, and even more so a crisis in all ages across the board, that they are testing younger people admitted for all reasons which other authorities wouldn’t consider it necessary to test. That combined with using an unreliable – and let’s admit it, meaningless – test means: ‘young dying people tested = young people dying of Covid19’. Job done.
UK Column in their daily broadcast has a perspective on EuroMOMO that may provide some insight. The discussion with graphs is at about 11:00, I believe.
Thanks for that. Had a quick look and agree with what they are saying at UK Column. The new look euromomo site now allows you to look at mortality stats by country by age group. Looks like something (? The gov response) has been/is killing younger adults as well as older ones in England.
i went out today
with a stethoscope
around my neck
every where i went
they clapped and said thank you doctor
and can you thank the nurses for what they
i nodded regal like and did a queen circular anti clockwise wave.
after about 20 mins of this a lady about 50 or so asked if i could check
under her arm as she had lost part of her
gregs vegan sausage roll (gregs are now slowly opening again)
i said no and quickly rushed away as she cried out yeradocterarntyer
you bastards are all the same
later still a man came up and asked for my help i said what is the matter
he said his his girlfriend had left him i explained that i was not an agony aunt.
he then said that was not the problem but ever since the event he had been sad and had developed a weeping penis and could i take a look…
again i ran
as i ran i could here the primal scream die you hippocratic scum
not sure what hippocrates has to do with it we have not taken any notice of that greek twat in 100 years
I’ve just been reading bit more about Hippocrates. What the hell happened medicine??!
Whilst this article is a good attempt at a counter argument to the ‘NHS workers are dropping like flies’ narrative, I think to try to get most sheep to even consider an alternative viewpoint, a more convincing argument is needed.
And I’m not sure it’s possible to produce one.
If somehow we had the data on how many NHS workers (however that is defined) die overall during say Feb to April on an average year and the same figures for a bad flu year, we could compare these 2 years to the current C19 year. I’m sure that this would produce a compelling case, but alas, such data isn’t available as far as I know.
I can imagine the sheep not having the imagination to realise that NHS workers die all the time, just like people from all walks of life, it’s just that every death isn’t normally plastered all over the daily rags.
Last week I had a hospital appt for a CT scan. I turned up at one of the biggest hospitals in the West Midlands and walked to the xray dept. The hospital was VERY quiet. The scan dept was almost empty with just a couple of people about. Last time I was there there were throngs of people.
Anyway, turned out I went to the wrong hospital! So I scrambled to the correct one (which I thought had closed down years ago). After getting past the car park gate keepers (‘What are you doing here?’ i was aggressively asked) I again found a virtually empty hospital. People too scared to go in. So now I have seen it with my own eyes.
I rarely consult Facebook, but I felt compelled to have a browse earlier. It was shocking. Somebody I considered to be a pretty cool guy had a post complaining that he saw some groups of lads out in cars (how dare they) and claimed he saw some people in a pub and proceeded to admonish these scumbags in a similar way one would attack, say, a serial burglar. The most shocking thing to me were the numerous comments, all agreeing with him. Mob mentality in action. I’ll paste a few choice clips below:
Jesus! Just give the kid a hug ffs!
I’m asking myself the same question!
I mean please, just please.
This is just so sad. People are so duped by the whole thing. And the rampant vilification of anybody who dares to go out is just crazy.
The follow up will be when they have developed some BS vaccine for C19 – the ostracisation of the evil people who refuse the poison will begin…
I follow comments at a couple of mainstream news sites.
The last 48 hours are seeing a massive turn towards scepticism.
That’s a sign of hope
Patient visits hospital. “‘What are you doing here?’ i was aggressively asked.” That says it all. They’re so quiet that the sight of a visitor alarms them.
As for the sheep, they may wake up when they see the government return to its policy of privatizing the NHS by stealth. Maybe, just maybe, the population will spot the disconnect of clapping while cutting.
A logjam of operations and huge waiting lists is just around the corner. That may rouse the sheep to anger. Of course, the corrupt NHS management now has an excuse: blame Covid not their own venality
I know a guy who’s completely irretrievable. A self-proclaimed “liberal” and “progressive” Trump hater. I met him yesterday, looked into his eyes and realised there’s absolutely no point in me telling him anything. His brain is gone.
PS: Facebook is a putrid pile of waste. It’s psychologically healthy to stay away from it. While FiveGee kills your body, Facebook kills your mind.
Thats why Facadebook was designed as a primary tool of the mind controllers.
The crap can be used for good( probably for a limited time)as we can see .
Someone gave you a thumbs down for calling out their life-force probably 😂
Have anyone noticed the number of people who lie through their teeth on Facebook, especially when it comes to this event? I understand that the NHS is a large employer, but it seems apparent that there’s a significant number of Facebook users who have one or more medically trained family members on the front line. The weird thing is, they all seem to parrot the propaganda…
…They are saving lives, how dare you question my honesty. I asked a Facebook user to please tell me the hospital that both his mother and his sister are working at who he’s not seen in over a fortnight, and it is breaking his heart. to verify his claim. He replied with “why would I give you the name of the hospital so a conspiracy nut can stalk my family?” I kindly asked for the name of the hospital, not his family name.
By the way, his Facebook cover was all virtue signaled to hell. Stay home Save Lives Protect the NHS. I think that was when I smelt a rat. Narsacism and a little bit of sociopathic tendencies me thinks. Facebook attracts these personalities like flies to flypaper.
Yeah, these down votes appear almost instantly. Not that I care. The Coronachok Troll Farm’s very busy these days. 🙂
God, Facebook’s such a cesspit of self-righteous arseholes. This “pandemic” has revealed their true colours.
“Facebook’s such a cesspit of self-righteous arseholes”
I really couldn’t have put it better, Reg. 😀
Everyone I know is the same Reg…. you could lay out ample evidence on something, and if The Guardian or ABC (BBC) say the opposite… then they believe them. Pointless even opening your mouth.
Think I’ve been made persona non grata by them anyway, so may not be hearing back from them again. C’est la vie.
It should be fairly easy to figure out a rough estimate of how many NHS workers would have died between February and April.
ONS does a breakdown of age groups. Figure out 1.5 million employees as a percentage of the working age population. That percentage of the number of deaths in the working age group is how many NHS workers were likely to die.
We recklessly opened the car sunroof yesterday. I am a bad man … 🙁
What do the scumfuckers say? “Act like you’ve got it”, right? I really would like to see some righteous retribution rain down on these vermin.
..and god punished you by making it rain…? Or perhaps his aim was off, and we got your rain.
The many who have been taken past their tipping point of being effectively captured by ‘authority’ set as protection – are those who are least able to question their fears.
Relating to the fearful can be challenging if we only see the state and media supplied armour.
Not least because it is disturbing to meet them in such guise.
Whatever else fear does, if given power, is feed upon itself and grow.
The only way I know that does not give fear power is of love.
The term is abused and degraded – but a life without it is not worth living and a world without it is being engineered and rolled out on fear and division.
Watching BBC News I can’t help noticing the qualified phrase “died with Covid-19” being used all the time now; with, not of. This looks like a plausible deniability escape route to me. They can hype the numbers up now but if proper inquiries later establish more realistic figures they can say they didn’t use “of” because the situation was unclear.
Slippery bastards aren’t they?
Because they are only treating people with covid19, or not treating them as the case is. All the NHS staff are doing is keeping the beds clean and comfortable for the elderly to die. That is a fact
I agree with that Terry, see my posts on other threads, but the BBC seem to be covering their own arses.
Governments already starting their defense (see bojo speech this afternoon. i’m not linking it it turns my stomach just to be associated in anyway with it) claiming the lock down has been a great success, saving lives, if Ferguson is to believed approx 480.000 LOL.
Although if you listen to his speech he did admit to there being growing unrest. Something the mainstream media is not telling us. Apparently the mainstream media would have you believe we are now in a utopian world now.
Its so nauseating, dancing nurses, sing WW2 vets, peter Kay routines, police twerking, public displays of mass Stockholm syndrome, can it get anymore surreal?
Empty hospitals, empty test centers, empty heads. Is my entire life some kind of fantasy, how could i imagine this amount of bizarre? Is it a Monty python sketch?
Some one slap me..
101% agree with you. After watching a couple of these dance videos back to back, had to go thru 4 chocolate biscuits and a couple of cigs just to get rid of my feelings of…. AAAAAGGGHH!!
Jaw dropping madness. And yes, it’s all as choreographed as Dancing With The Stars….
I work in a hospital. Sorry can’t slap you. It wouldn’t work, this is real. The virus and debates around it I can handle; the madness is what gets me. Come clappy time I hide in the chapel, an atheist. That bad.
It is reassuring that they think the truth might come put, because it never has before.
If we go back to how things were the truth will come out. To be fair it’s been out for some time already. Maybe I am too immersed in this stuff but it seems impossible that we can ever go back because of this. I would personally rejoice if Johnson was put on a rope and I don’t usually support capital punishment. On the other hand they’ve fixed it so the sheep enjoy their incarceration. This is the reason for the dancing and the clapping and the constant hypnotic coverage. A staggering achievement when you think about it.
Both Brexit and The War on Carbon are based on lies, how is that going?
They can’t even claim they died with “COVID19” as its not a real disease.
This article originally appeared on the BBC news website just before the lockdown started.
It was originally titled “CoronaVirus: Have the Experts Over-Egged the Death Figures?”.
Since the then it has had half a dozen different titles and at least a hundred or more changes have been made to the content.
Someone at the BBC is a cautious gambler and likes to hedge their bets.
Listen again. Oftentimes they’ll say “died with coronavirus”.
This is even more obfuscation as anyone who’s ever had the common cold dies with the coronavirus in their system.
The latest version I heard from the mainstream media is now ‘deaths involving covid-19′. They’re definitely covering their a*ses.
Coronavirus is cold
I will stand by the NHS. However – does anyone else feel freaked out by this relentless cloying gushing praise of the NHS that assaults you everywhere in the media? It makes me think of a sick game played by psychopaths who give false reassurance to their victims just to sadistically taunt them before slitting their throats. Or as Dylan once sang:
And just to make sure I’m not misunderstood, I’m saying that the NHS is the victim.
We understand George, the NHS is the unwitting target for the swarm of blood sucking parasites circling around it. Unfortunately it’s already the host for many others, managers, business consultants etc., and it also funds the now private care sector , among other services that have been hived off. It also allows consultants to run private clinics using NHS facilities for free, a scandalous abuse of public money.
Its trusts and managers also allow consultants …
There was a poster a few weeks ago (sorry, don’t remember who) discussing MI5 influence in the top levels of the NHS. Made sense to me.
I don’t doubt that they are there John, field operators are usually recruited at university. They are told they are special people who can do a special and important job for their country. Doors are opened for the “right people” and they rise effortlessly to the top of every profession. The “awkward squad”, people of conscience, are marginalised.
And yes, it pisses me of too. The corporate instigated MSM propaganda of praise is like the sociopathic lying and manipulative behaviour of pederasts, who all publicly profess their love of children whilst secretly plotting their abuse.
And you’d think the ridiculous pantomime of Boris fighting and winning through the New Black Death and now gushing his eternal gratitude would have wised some of the pop corn munchers in the front row up – but no, there they go, swallowing it all galdly.
Unfortunately true George, but innocent minds are manipulated from childhood. We have to be measured and persistent but patient and kind with them if we want to make any headway though. Cognitive dissonance can be very painful and the fear of that pain will shut down their critical thinking.
They don’t want to think that anything is wrong but this lockdown and the rest of the rapid changes can’t be ignored. More and more of them are thinking WTF is going on. This gives us a great chance to patiently explain about the financial crash, which is driving it all, and the shock doctrine that’s used to gain even more advantage over us.
The innocent minds, that is most people, are our brothers and sisters. I try to remember that when talking to them. If we see them as “the others” we are doing the psychopaths’ job for them. We people with enquiring minds are not special, we are just lucky.
I know from personal experience how easy it is to become the counsel of despair, but I now think we can win this battle for hearts and minds. The psychopaths have overreached themselves, their narcissistic pride is their Achilles’ heel.
It is the covid version of ‘our boys on the front war ‘propaganda.
An underlying reality of this whole thing is the capture of national governments by a globally orchestrated public-private ‘partnership using the medical mandate. The NHS is selling the public to the private sector. IE: NHS ‘confidential’ records handed over to Biobank.
Boris told us at his outset UN speech – Britain to ‘lead the way in biotech’. Once the population have been suitably primed and conditioned.
On NHS propaganda, I think Kit Knightly’s pissing joke on Corbett is more apt than Dylan – which speaks more to the use of flattery to set the target in a self-destructive role.
Psycho-pathy is the mind of dissociated manipulative deceit.
I limit my exposure to the lockstepped media.
As for the happy clappers.
There have always been lots of people into things I don’t join in with.
Why should I give them the power to undermine my peace?
Immunity is also a state of mind.
Alternatively 109/1,500,000 x 1,000,000 = 72.7 deaths per million. IIRC somewhat lower than the dpm for the UK as a whole which is somewhere in the 200’s.
If you want to be safe from the Corona, work for the NHS.
or any multinational corperation!
Just come across this, some one is seeking judicial review over UK lock-down.
Full disclosure Jeff Taylor is/was a UKip Councillor, BUT don’t shot the messenger!