122

Great VIRAL Debate: Round 2: Dr Anderson’s Second Response In reply to Dr Rancourt’s Round Two Response

Round Two of The Great VIRAL Debate continues. Track this debate’s progress in our Coronavirus Debate Section. Dr Piers Robinson is our chair. Off-Guardian is your host. The proposition under debate is:

SARS-COV-2 merits suppression measures in order to combat the virus rather than the herd/community immunity approach

Dr Anderson, arguing for the proposition, responds to Denis Rancourt’s round two response from 22 Oct:

I want to make some points about ‘immunity’ before addressing the second response by Denis. The rejection of preventive health measures has drawn on simplistic ideas about immunity, such as that surviving a one-time contact with any new virus confers life-long immunity. But while some viruses can be controlled by natural immunity, others evade attempts at either Darwinian immunity or immunity by vaccine. Some like HIV/AIDS cause chronic persistent disease and in others, including COVID19, there is reinfection.

Immunity comes from two factors: developing specific antibodies to the virus and activating a general immune response. Yet after some months we know that COVID19 antibodies in heavily affected cities are only at about 10%, a long way from the necessary levels for ‘herd immunity’ with a highly infectious disease (Jones and Helmreich; Pitt; Woodley; Doshi).

To counter my advocacy of public health systems, Denis attacks ‘state medicine’, by which he lumps together socialized health systems (like that of Cuba and Syria) and Big Pharma-privatised systems (like that of the USA). He does not seem to notice the difference, saying

state medicine … in both socialist and neo-liberal systems … creates an unhealthy dependence, and a debilitating perception of one’s own body and place in the world.”

This is libertarian stuff loved by the Trumps and Boris Johnsons of the world. Denis criticizes ‘Big Pharma’ but sides with them in dismissing socialized medicine.

He then presents his own two-part theory. The first part claims that COVID19 is a typical winter ‘low- humidity’ respiratory disease; the second part is that the deaths “mostly occurred in elderly persons in care homes”, linked to the poor ventilation in those homes.

One obvious problem with this ‘low humidity’ disease theory is that five of the top ten countries reporting infections and deaths (India, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Peru) have substantial tropical populations. On the ‘most deaths in aged care homes’ side, Fiore did report that “about half of Sweden’s 5,730 deaths occurred among those in elder care homes”. However the other half (almost 3,000) amounts to more than double the combined deaths in ALL the other Nordic countries (1,343); and Sweden’s institutional care rate is much higher than that of Brazil, Peru and India. I am afraid this is just another western, orientalist theory.

Denis refers to my citation of the IFR for a seasonal flu as about 0.1% as an “uninformed statement”, apparently miffed that I have not sufficiently addressed his theory about influenza and care homes. However we have both relied on much the same data. Denis cites Ioannidis to speak of “a typical death toll from seasonal influenza” of 290,000-650,000, and I cite Paget which gives the same data, which averages to about 400,000 flu deaths per year. Yet after 9 months of pandemic, and the various quarantine regimes, the reported COVID19 death toll of almost 1.2 million is three times that.

Denis says I rely on Verity et al, from 30 March, and that this is too old. In fact, in my opening statement I cite five sources: Verity et al; Basu; CDC; Bhattacharya; and Mallapaty. In my first response I point out that even the sources Denis relies on (Ioannidis and the CDC) give higher IFR estimates than Denis accepts. No need to repeat all that here.

Finally, responding to my citation of policy and practice in Syria, Denis suggests I am “significantly mistaken”. He refers to a Facebook article by Eva Bartlett (who blocks me on Facebook) in which she abuses me as “a deluded person living far removed from reality” and falsely asserts (without any reference) that I defend “brutal lockdowns”.

Readers of this debate might recall my opening statement which says it is important to distinguish principles of public and preventive health and to “not conflate [those] principles with particular political actions”. There have been all sorts of inappropriate and repressive responses; but we are discussing principles here.

Eva’s main argument is that Syrian policy re COVID19 was “nominal” and not strictly enforced. But examples of crowds can be found everywhere.  She misleads people by suggesting that the Syrian government did not take the pandemic seriously, and that Syria’s early closure of the borders, the curfew, school closures and so on had little to do with the country’s low levels of infections. Syrian policy and practice is detailed in my June article, listed below. Denis should not have tried to prove a point simply by citing an unreferenced Facebook post.

Our participants’ Final Responses will be published next week (w/c 01 Nov).

Track this debate’s progress in our Coronavirus Debate Section

References

Anderson Tim (2020) ‘COVID-19: the Swedish Model’, American Herald Tribune, 4 October, online.

Anderson Tim (2020) ‘How Did Syria Control the Pandemic So Well?’, American Herald Tribune, 4 October, online.

Doshi, Peter (2020) ‘Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?’, BMJ, 17 September, online.

Fiore, Kristina (2020) ‘How Did Sweden Flatten Its Curve Without a Lockdown?’, MedPage Today, 29 July, online.

Jones, David and Stefan Helmreich (2020) ‘A history of herd immunity’, The Lancet, 19 September, online.

Paget, James et al (2019) ‘Global mortality associated with seasonal influenza epidemics: New burden estimates and predictors from the GLaMOR Project’, J Glob Health. 2019 Dec; 9(2): 020421., online.

Pitt, Sarah (2020) ‘What will happen if we can’t produce a coronavirus vaccine? And is herd immunity the answer?’, The Conversation, 15 August, online.

Woodley, Matt (2020b) ‘More evidence suggests no long-term COVID-19 immunity’, News GP, 13 July, online.

can you spare $1.00 a month to support independent media

Unlike the Guardian we are NOT funded by Bill & Melinda Gates, or any other NGO or government. So a few coins in our jar to help us keep going are always appreciated.

Our Bitcoin JTR code is: 1JR1whUa3G24wXpDyqMKpieckMGGW2u2VX

1.4 12 votes
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
122 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
@p43bkx
@p43bkx
Nov 2, 2020 10:59 AM

Dr Anderson is a total disgrace. Not a single mention of T cells where most immunity actually comes from. I suggest readers listen to Dr Mike Yeadon talking to James Delingpole where he explains exactly why the muppets at SAGE are wrong, why they know they are wrong and actually calls them out as liars with an invitation for Vallance to sue him over his comments. It’s quite long at about 1hr:45min but worth every second of your time. Especially if you’re a bedwetter; you’ll feel a lot safer afterwards.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dr-mike-yeadon/id1449753062?i=1000495618783

TFS
TFS
Nov 1, 2020 11:45 AM

Here’s a report from the CDC’s website labelled:
CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

Interesting section (pg 38) on limitations.

sam2
sam2
Nov 1, 2020 1:23 PM
Reply to  TFS

https://worlddoctorsalliance.com/
An independent non-profit alliance of doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals and staff around the world who have united in the wake of the Covid-19 response chapter to share experiences with a view to ending all lockdowns and related damaging measures and to re-establish universal health determinance of psychological and physical wellbeing for all humanity.

William
William
Oct 31, 2020 10:17 PM

In the UK. It is blatantly obvious to an imbecile that Govt stalled testing in March, April, May and June deliberately. This enabled supposed infections to proliferate.. I stress “supposed” not, necessarily, factual. There are other possible causes of this mindless pandemic. However, more recently, testing has increased ( by design ) so that false positives galore would “cause” an unfortunate phase 2 lockdown. The latter simply enabled by measuring just 0.1% of any old coronavirus genome that may easily be present in any one persons PCR swab test. Coupled with the inclusion of all current flu cases . . .. job done. UK economy screwed. Klaus Schwab and the banks must be laughing at our total inability to see the callous treatment they inflict on us . . . the herd.

Jacques
Jacques
Nov 1, 2020 11:38 AM
Reply to  William

Laughing … yes ..!

These mofos must be rolling over the floor laughing somewhere in the office where they run everything from when they see the droves of sheeple walking around in snot-covered rags around their faces, militantly attacking for not doing so the minority that has retained rationality …

The biggest lesson to be learned from the past year is how easy it is to brainwash the Earth’s population, a critical mass thereof that is, into swallowing the most phantasmagorical stupidity.

william
william
Nov 1, 2020 7:20 PM
Reply to  Jacques

I have to agree Im sad to state. Question : Whats the difference between humans and Lemmings? Id love to know myself !

Jacques
Jacques
Nov 1, 2020 7:55 PM
Reply to  william

The biggest predicament I’m facing – and not only me but most people with their head screwed on right – is what’s the point? We’re arguably at a point in history where the broadest populations have unprecedented access to education and are, at least in theory, well educated. Yet, they allow and tiny minority of unscrupulous malfaiteurs to turn their minds upside down, inside out, and put a knot on it and make them act completely against their interests.

Stanley
Stanley
Nov 1, 2020 8:34 PM
Reply to  Jacques

Interchange ‘education’ with ‘indoctrination’ and your comment becomes self explanatory.
Schooling aims at spawning certified fools, not individuals who have learned to actually research, think, speak and act independently. Because that would be education.

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Oct 31, 2020 7:48 AM

It was interesting to see the following interview, which dissents significantly from the orthodox narrative, published in the Cyprus Mail (which as far as I know is a mainstream publication) with Associate Professor of Epidemiology and Public Health at the Open University of Cyprus, Dr Elpidoforos Soteriades, who got his degree in epidemiology at Harvard:
 
https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/10/26/no-matter-how-many-tests-we-perform-the-virus-will-keep-spreading/

Brian Eggar
Brian Eggar
Oct 30, 2020 11:02 PM

https://www.worldhealth.net/news/possible-nasal-spray-sars-cov-2-infection/

Lets hope these trials are successful as it says this nasal spray might be effective for all corona viruses including flu and asthma.

This is probably not new to Big Pharma but what will they do faced with a big hole in their profits. My guess is that they will buy the company and bury the results.

The only problem that I find with all this data, is that the numbers are derived from very suspect RT-PCR testing figures. Even the number of deaths is now suspect.

william
william
Nov 1, 2020 7:21 PM
Reply to  Brian Eggar

Correct !

Alexandre Posoukh
Alexandre Posoukh
Oct 30, 2020 10:53 PM

It is really amazing how little the esteemed professor has to say. I was hoping to see a more formidable debate.

William
William
Oct 30, 2020 8:35 PM

1.2 million actual Covid deaths is not real and should, obviously, exclude all deaths not CAUSED by Covid; which the summary figure includes. Covid is only a variant of flu and no more significant than that. Debate concluded.

Someone
Someone
Oct 30, 2020 3:32 PM

I’m bored of this debate tbh. Can we close it already and start debating the Fourth Industrial Revolution?

JayTe
JayTe
Oct 30, 2020 10:39 AM

One can only sigh with many of Dr. Anderson’s statements. It shows a really poor understanding of even the immune system. Let’s unpack it.

  1. Immunity comes from two factors: developing specific antibodies to the virus and activating a general immune response.” – It is well known that for many people our previous exposure to coronaviruses has enabled us to resolve whatever illness is going around based on T-cell response rather than based on antibodies. In fact, this has played a key factor in the low IFR as well as low herd immunity threshold (i.e. 10-20%) in countries across the globe for covid-19.
  2. But while some viruses can be controlled by natural immunity, others evade attempts at either Darwinian immunity or immunity by vaccine. Some like HIV/AIDS cause chronic persistent disease and in others, including COVID19, there is reinfection.” – I had to suppress a giggle here since anyone who actually knows the real story around AIDS knows that there is no connection between HIV and AIDS. As well, Dr. Anderson is under the belief that covid-19 is somehow different from previous coronaviruses despite all the statistics on deaths by age, herd immunity threshold being within the normal range of seasonal flu. Finally as for reinfection, we have reports of about 7-8 people being re-infected with covid-19. Irrespective of the how this could be proved using the scientifically meaningless PCR test, let’s assume that these people were really reinfected. A conservative estimate of the number of people who have been infected in the world is about 10% of the world population (i.e. 750 million). We have 7-8 “reinfections”. I guess Dr. Anderson is math challenged since he seems incapable of calculating the probability of this happening to most of the population with what we know about “reinfections”.
  3. “One obvious problem with this ‘low humidity’ disease theory is that five of the top ten countries reporting infections and deaths (India, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Peru) have substantial tropical populations.” – Here Dr. Anderson shows himself ignorant of the differences between countries in the northern and southern hemispheres in relation to epidemic influenza when one looks at deaths as a lagging indicator of the epidemic. I would suggest that he read, Dr. Edgar Hope-Simpson’s seminal book on this subject, “The Transmission of Epidemic Influenza” which details that the course of a virus is different in terms of timing and its slope (based on Farr’s Law) depending on where one lives by latitude. Whether it is driven by solar radiation, humidity or vitamin D levels it predicts what is seen in India, Brazil, Mexico, California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Peru and Columbia (i.e. COVID-19 came later, on a lower death curve, to U.S. states or countries that sit at or below the 35th parallel)

Here are some more myths on Covid-19 that Dr. Anderson should learn about before he makes any more statements. Nine Covid Facts: A Pandemic of Fearmongering and Ignorance

George Mc
George Mc
Oct 30, 2020 10:26 AM

“This is libertarian stuff loved by the Trumps and Boris Johnsons of the world.”

I’ve never known a biological phenomenon  that seemed so affected by political ideology before. It even seems now that previous natural immunisation is to be seen as a kind of backdated neoliberal crime! Well you know what this really signals: the typical capitalist manoeuvre of supplying consumers with what they’ve already got/ don’t need/ what might even kill them (delete as appropriate) extended into the medical area.  

Jay
Jay
Oct 30, 2020 10:20 AM

Mandatory face masks for the healthy, even outdoors – a tool of repression and dehumanisation?

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/status/1322117084038504448?s=20

Jesper
Jesper
Oct 30, 2020 7:53 AM

A debate most foul.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Oct 30, 2020 6:58 AM

Looks like I’m not missing much!

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 30, 2020 6:48 AM

What a total WASTE. Blah blah blah …

There is not an iota of reason in this humongous crock of total crap. This nutcase doesn’t care about the (hoax that is) COVID, he cares about himself and defending his ideological position.

From where FFS did he pull this claim that COVID-19 causes reinfection? No COVID disease has yet been proved to exist. Is he talking about the fact that people once in a while get head colds, sore throats, cough? Wow! What a reason to shut down the world and cause untold suffering and destruction!

Here are very reasonable statements (ignore the dimwit on the left):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgn4B2Iq2cg

Likewise here

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Oct 30, 2020 7:16 PM
Reply to  Jacques

Great comment!

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Oct 30, 2020 4:56 AM

I’d rather look at more important numbers and stats. I’d also like to remind those who have come to associate the word pandemic with danger due to the cranked up fear that the governments have ordered the MSM to create within their mantras. Pandemic refers to something that is everywhere( pan) . It’s about how many places it is, not how deadly.

A number I’d like to mention in the hope it’s passed on to the dozen or so ‘selfless philanthropists ‘ who only have the future of the planet and the human race at heart, is the 9 million deaths by starvation each year. Isn’t that a pandemic ? 

While America keeps claiming to be throwing billions( or trillions?) at this ‘pandemic’, how many of it’s children are living below the poverty line and how many people are homeless ? It claims to be putting $6 trillion into the anti- covid programme. It would cost $250 billion to eradicate world hunger. In two months a new year will begin and another 9 million would have starved to death in the old one.

The epidemiology sphere tells the same story. For decades, malaria has been killing about 500,000 people every year (mostly children) while cheap and effective drugs are available. Solving the malaria problem would cost about US$ 4 billion a year. In just 3 months, the US government claimed to have spent 1,500 times more on coronavirus than the cost of dealing with malaria. And how did that go ?

In the same vein, every year the seasonal flu kills between 300,000 and 500,000 individuals without alarming the authorities whatsoever. Isn’t that a pandemic ? Why no masks; no lockdown ?

But we get hit by a virus nobody can see or find and suddenly we’re in more danger than we’d be if aliens landed. So, that would suggest that an agenda far different is at play.

The global network of power elites that pull the strings of their puppet state leaders have only displayed this kind of determination in two areas before. One to commit genocide on a regular basis in order to cull and to bastardise the cultures of other nations and overthrow their leaders. The other to introduce a surveillance system that invades as much of our lives and privacy as possible. But, they never go so public about those.

Anyway, trustworthy numbers and stats and so on ..

In the early 1980s in America 90% of the media was owned by 50 companies. 25 years later it was owned by 6. This is why it’s so easy to micro manage a narrative across a huge demographic. It’s not just America any more, it’s the developed world. The power of that coup is being witnessed daily with the pandemic reporting. These numbers can at least be verified.

That’s step one of psychological hijack. narrowing the outlets with a tightly controlled ‘truth’. Step two is to damage the comprehension abilities of the population. Informally known as ‘dumbing down’. 

The education system does it’s part. Find a school text book from the 1930s for 10 year olds. Then the 1960s. And one from our time . No more will need to be discussed in that area. 

Various cocktails help the philanthropists in their ‘care’ of us too. They put little surprises in envelopes we can’t access but will open some time later . Inside us. The most common method is the vaccine. But there are more.

Chemicals are another way to dumb down the population. For example, through the fluoridation of drinking water, which is known to lower IQ scores in children and that was initially used as a poison for rodents. In the same vein, there is an epidemic of autism (by 2040, it is estimated that 10% of children will be born with autism) associated with vaccination campaigns. 

And so to our little friend, the virus..

They’ve been around for 500 million years. So they seem quite good at adapting without assistance. Viruses are also, and by far, the most diverse organisms, with an estimated 100 million different types of viruses on Earth. For comparison, there are about 5,500 known mammalian species on our planet. Out of this estimated 100 million different types of viruses, only 200 types (a mere 0.0002%) sometimes cause diseases in humans. Some good numbers there.

The knowledge and understanding of viruses has expanded in recent times. Pasteur is the father of ‘germ theory’ and he gave the virus only a humble role and scope. It wasn’t until the arrival of genetics that our understanding of the area made strides. This has led to many mistakenly assuming that there is A- no such thing as germ theory and, by extension, no such thing as a virus.

I have a ton of things to say about Fort Detrick, the birthplace of Covid 19. Or, as Trump calls it, the Chinese disease ( not sure if he majored in Geography).But I’ll hold it back. This – whatever it is- was man made there. Anthrax was also made there that was later used against Saddam Hussein. It was rumbled and a ‘former employee’ of Fort Detrick was chosen as a patsy. But that’s off topic. I mention it only to point out the ‘previous’ that ‘the Fort ‘ has.

Fort Detrick has a long history. Ever since the US and Germany became allies in WW2. Yes, I know, that’s not what it says in the movies and news reels It says it in history though. And that’s real.

”-Months into his Operation Paperclip contract, Traub was asked to meet with US scientists from Fort Detrick[…]. Traub discussed work done at the Reich Research Institute for Virus Diseases of Animals on Riems Island during World War II for the Nazis, and work done after the war there for the Russians. Traub gave a detailed explanation of the secret operation at the Institute, and his activities there. This information provided the ground work for Fort Detrick’s offshore germ warfare animal disease lab on Plum Island. “ – Carol Michael ( 2004)

The die was cast for the Nazi party and their new home. By 1950 , 800,000 citizens of San Francisco were unwittingly ( and illegally) exposed to Serratia marcescens. There are many. many more examples like this.

Today, scientists at Fort Detrick are still conducting intensive research on man-made biological weapons in general, and engineered viruses in particular. For example, in 2016, Fort Detrick was involved in research concerning the use of bats and the viruses they carry as bioweapons. In 2018, Fort Detrick conducted research on the MERS coronavirus, a close relative of SARS-CoV-2. Within a year it was given the all clear to re-introduce gain-of-function ‘research’.

300 US soldiers arrived in Wuhan, China, for the World Military Games that lasted from October 18th to October 27th, 2019. Just before the trip, some of the US soldiers had trained in Fort Belvoir, 50 miles from Fort Detrick and 6 miles from Springfield, Virginia (the first cluster of the mysterious respiratory disease).Unexpectedly, the US team did not perform very well at the games:

”The U.S. team, known for their competitive skills, did terribly; only 172 participated, almost half didn’t even compete in their events,” reports stated.

In November, Google announced it had filled it’s ‘data bank’ with the medical records of everyone. December we had the pandemic.

It seems that the mysterious infectious outbreak that occurred around Fort Detrick a few weeks previously may have infected participants of the World Military Games.

Conveniently, Fort Detrick received a cease-and-desist order from the CDC and was shut down on July 15th 2019, just 13 days after the beginning of the nearby mysterious respiratory outbreak in Springfield, VA. A senior scientist described the atmosphere in Fort Detrick at the time as one of ‘fear and mistrust’ . Fort Detrick re-opened in April 2020, at the tail end of the pandemic.

So the most powerful and productive death factory needed to organise an alibi for itself.

Do you believe them ? Or have you been at the tap water.;)

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 11:43 AM
Reply to  Jura Calling

The poisons contaminate many things besides food and drink. E.g., cooking utensils, crockery, food packaging/containers, tools, textiles, cushions, cleaning products including soap, cosmetics, paint, indoor insecticide, fuel, electronics (apart from radiation), medicine, and the work-place. 

This is apart from the poisons that extraction, manufacture or disposal generates. Practically every mine and factory produces poisons, the admission of which would mean lower profit. Where is all of it dumped? Science began admitting the pervasive presence of plastic micro-particles in air, water and on the ground only around 2017-18.

That’s the free market for you. It is a wonder that some of us maintain health. Apart from neurological poisons, the efforts to dumb us down include poor basic schooling, proaganda and divisive beliefs.

Note on microbes: Microbes make up 95% of the biomass in the oceans -Ricardo Cavicchioli, 2019. Soil everywhere is full of it. The exchange genes somewhat easily, even with plants according to some. So, your estimate may on the low side.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Oct 30, 2020 12:16 PM
Reply to  mgeo

could well be, mgeo ..i can’t quote what’s being hidden though..and let’s face it, most of the real shit is being hidden..

I could quote a lot more than i did but there was no space. Plus it would likely be a wasted effort.

I see the content of this, and the next article that follows it , are being ignored by around 75% of the comments in favour topic discussions about completely different things. I’m sure some of the effort is to derail or disrupt. There’s a few too many oddballs getting through and using the ‘free speech’ bullshit to be allowed to.

I find that odd. People take the time to write the article and the site share it. Then the discussion takes off in all directions like a support group who need to vent. Maybe the site could accommodate them in some way. A sort of ”get it off your chest’ section. But it would probably take up 90% of so called discussion.

tish
tish
Nov 2, 2020 1:48 AM
Reply to  Jura Calling

This ia an excellent article Jura as per, you have touched at the start of your article on something that has baffled me from the start of ‘mystery virus’

At the start we have an outbreak….number of people infected

Then we get epidemic again number of people infected

Pandemic is when the number of cases goes above epidemic and it has spread through a number of countries worldwide and that is measured in number of dead.

I don’t know exact numbers but that’s how it flows. MSM have been guilty of ‘sloppy language’ from the start…. as well as a mix up between coronavirus and covid-19

Starvation is in some places endemic ie it is always there.

Germ theory is an absolute truth . We can use Lister and his use of carbonic acid when operating as a prime example and of course Louis Pasteur for identifying tubicular bacillus in milk….which still to this day is called Pasteurised milk….it has been heated to 60 degrees c to kill off bacteria. It is interesting that more rich people than poor people got TB via one source…the poor couldn’t afford milk and drank gin.

Before germ theory people believed that illness was caused by miasma ‘foul air’ it is interesting that when people have a good, clean water supply, sanitation and sewers and rubbish removal…and good housing conditions most of the diseases caused by poverty disappear. These included viral deseases like chloera and typhoid….diseases we associate with poverty.

Some people do argue against germ theory because a virus could not be seen under a microscope…..well with the advent of the electron microscope down went the theory of unseen or identifiable virus. The masks people are wearing now are merely something tangible.. a comfort blanket. A face shield would offer a greater degree of protection against a virus…stop I tell myself there is no evidence of a virus !

This is looking as though it is going to be the biggest known hoax ever. Oh yes Mr Gates and his merrymen will bring us to our knees not via a virus but by psychological conditioning and raw fear.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Nov 2, 2020 2:29 PM
Reply to  tish

Thanks Tish….

After the mythical second wave is over. Possibly January unless Gates or Fauci come out of their nest again with the Crystal Ball to make yet another accurate psychic prediction about this invisible germ, we’ll have more from the ‘behavioural scientists’ Their poster child is Skinner as you obviously understand. He was funded in the 40s to propagate the bullshit of a world where everything is ‘technological behaviour’. That’s why the behavioural scientists aren’t called psychologists as that’s still a bit of a ‘pseudo’ science so risks a kickback. He saw man as data. And he saw them as programmable. Just like we’re being trialled for now. And just as the launch of nano technology and Rfid chips along with 5 g is sitting at the starting line.. Coincidence ? Shite is it..

tish
tish
Nov 2, 2020 7:31 PM
Reply to  Jura Calling

sure is !

RobG
RobG
Oct 30, 2020 2:00 AM

The amazing thing is that people believe all this crap.

Back in the day we had the PLO and IRA, etc, and even though you might not agree with these people you understood that they had a political agenda.

These days everything is totally staged and is not real.

They are coming at you in vans, and then they are coming at you with knives. It’s all complete bullshit..

The ‘Westminster Bridge Attack’ was one of the worse most recent ones. The dead bodies were all obviously mannequins (go look at the footage, egits) and it was all done by the totally criminal security services to promote an illegal war in Syria.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 30, 2020 4:00 AM
Reply to  RobG

… done by the totally criminal security services to promote an illegal war in Syria.

That’s so very interesting, Rob. My focus is always on the psyop itself – the actual agenda of psyops I’m not good on. Can you explain how Westminster was used to promote the illegal war in Syria or provide a link?

My favourite photos from Westminster are of the “hero”, Tobias Ellwood, MP.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15174125.extraordinary-bravery-tobias-ellwood-praised-by-prime-minister-after-westminster-terror-attack/

Interestingly, one commenter, “John Smith”, expressed great annoyance at how the Bournemouth Echo made radical changes to their story from one day to the next (typical feature of psyops) which meant his original comment no longer applied. I wonder if “John” was an agent doing their job of always alerting us to anomalies, giving us every possible chance to work out they’re duping us, or a genuine commenter.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 30, 2020 4:04 AM
Reply to  RobG

No need to respond to my question, Rob. D’uh. Isis.

busterdeals
busterdeals
Oct 30, 2020 1:20 AM

https://www.paho.org/journal/en/articles/ferritin-levels-and-covid-19

The link above is to a paper which found a correlation between Covid 19 infection and ferritin levels in the blood stream of infected patients…the higher the ferritin the higher the infection rate.

Could be an explanation for the low Asian death and case rates…much less meat, and,presumably, iron consumed in the low incidence countries.

Just throwing the idea into the debate as I’ve been very puzzled at the huge dicrepancy in the US and European incidence compared to Asia. By the way I’m in the “hypothetical” virus camp. No real proof yet that it exists but it may. Until there’s an isolate it’s going to remain speculative.

Of course the whole hysterical narrative is BS.

RobG
RobG
Oct 30, 2020 1:42 AM
Reply to  busterdeals
Croach
Croach
Oct 30, 2020 3:13 AM
Reply to  busterdeals

It’s my opinion that the majority of excess deaths above norm in Western countries are the result of aggressive and improper (and likely illegal) use of DNRs/end-of-life pathways/advanced care plans which at best constitutes institutional manslaughter and at worst premeditated murder.
They like old people in East Asia. They often live in extended family households.
Their elderly don’t tend to die of neglect, euthanasia is much less common across all age groups and taboo in strictly Buddhist countries.
Here’s an article on bioethics in Thailand that explains that Thai doctors aren’t even willing to turn off brain dead patients’ ventilators.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1621096/

Thailand has a population of 32 million and has had 70 ‘covid’ deaths overall.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 3:54 AM
Reply to  Croach

Locking up all the old and sick in ”care homes” without decent staff is what killed them. Studies in Spain and France and others showed tens of thousands died for want of a drink of water.

Croach
Croach
Oct 30, 2020 4:19 AM

Advanced care plans involve administering palliative sedation and withdrawing solids and fluids.
In the absence of normal GP or hospital care for residents, untrained and overburdened care staff inured to residents dying of neglect had nothing else to offer.
There are East Asian countries where advanced care plans don’t exist at all. Whereas in the West, for the last decade there has been an aggressive campaign to push them on as many elderly as possible despite the lack of any meaningful evidence supporting their use.
It’s has a financial motivation and is indicative of a complete collapse in medical ethics in the countries that have seen their widespread introduction.

ame
ame
Oct 30, 2020 8:46 AM

Spain if you dig deeper your find the military went into some old people home to check on them not long after they died.

when your dealing with near to end of life in that environment doesn’t take much to kill someone missing the meds for the day could do it but shock fear and most places have news on constantly 

U.k wise notice the first thing they did was blame ethnic people for spreading the virus because they did not social;i distant  hence the reason for the first ever localized lockdown
and then they blamed old people home owners and staff for not using PPE that the reason the older generation died in old people home



mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 5:07 AM
Reply to  Croach

Population 66 million

Paul_too
Paul_too
Oct 31, 2020 2:48 AM
Reply to  Croach

Thailand actually has a population of a little under 70 million, with 70 deaths classified as ‘covid’ related.

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/thailand-population/

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 5:05 AM
Reply to  busterdeals

Why only one substance? Why are all those sooper-dooper AI deep-learning computers not being used to resolve such issues, instead of looking for exo-planets, etc.? Is it because that would upset the megalomaniac goals of vaccines, digital money, all-out tyranny, etc.?

RobG
RobG
Oct 30, 2020 1:12 AM

In November 2015 we had another terrorist jolly, on Friday the 13th no less. It took place in Paris during the evening. Three suicide bombers struck outside the Stade de France in Saint-Denis, during a football match. This was followed by several mass shootings, and a suicide bombing, at cafés and restaurants. Gunmen carried out another mass shooting and took hostages at an Eagles of Death Metal concert in the Bataclan theatre, leading to a stand-off with police. The attackers were shot or blew themselves up when police raided the theatre. Syrian passports were found near the bodies of two of the terrorists and the next day ISIS claimed responsibility for the Paris attacks.

Those Syrian passports were rather handy, if you want to invade Syria.

The funniest thing about all this (apart from the Eagles of Death Metal – who no one had ever heard of) was an 8 month pregnant woman who apparently hung by her fingernails from a window sill for more than 5 minutes, on a freezing November evening.

If you believe this shit you really are in the Outer Limits…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7pr2o9KoE8

So can anyone tell me who this supposedly pregnant woman is (who supposedly hung by her fingernails from a windowsill on a freezing November evening)?

And please, no Wikipedia bullshit.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 3:55 AM
Reply to  RobG

Those pristine passports always manage to turn up in excellent condition, even in the WTC where everything else was in smithereens.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 30, 2020 4:14 AM
Reply to  RobG

Crisis actor, Rob, but I don’t expect a prize :).

RobG
RobG
Oct 30, 2020 9:53 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

As you probably know, the November 2015 ‘Paris terror attacks’ resulted in the French government bringing in ’emergency laws’ that severely restricted civil liberties. This in turn led to a general strike in early 2016 and the birth of the yellow vest movement.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 31, 2020 5:26 AM
Reply to  RobG

I must confess I didn’t make the connection, Rob, but only from pure ignorance – it makes perfect sense. My feeling about any opposition movement generally is that, if not initiated by intelligence agencies as a “controlled opposition” group, it will be infiltrated massively so I have my doubts about the gilets jaunes (not to say there aren’t perfectly genuine members if not mainly genuine) but that is not based at all on evidence as I really hardly know anything about them just a general idea that the power elite are always implementing divide-and-rule strategies and that they aim as much as possible to control both sides. How well they can do that when most of the members are genuine I don’t know but I believe that even only a few controlled opposition agents within a movement can be extremely effective at steering things the way they want they want them to go.

Grafter
Grafter
Oct 30, 2020 12:26 AM

I have joined Twitter. I think think it is vital that we all use the very limited resources available to us and to disseminate positive factual information to those who are doubtful re the corrupted outpourings of the MSM. Ignorance should be challenged. Keep it short, factual and relevant.

Croach
Croach
Oct 30, 2020 3:23 AM
Reply to  Grafter

Can you suggest to Dr Mike Yeadon @MichaelYeadon3 that he organizes to have a leaflet made up that can be delivered to as many households in the UK as possible.

RobG
RobG
Oct 30, 2020 12:03 AM

Major demonstrations in Paris tonight…

https://twitter.com/InfosFrancaises/status/1321881988270333953

I’m many miles away from Paris, so I can’t confirm that there’s a huge number on people on the streets…

https://twitter.com/Mediavenir/status/1321945993236144134

For those unfamiliar, from midnight tonight (Thursday) another total lockdown is being introduced in France (and just for good measure, just to jolly things along, we’ve had another muslim lunatic attack, in Nice. Now there’s a coincidence).

Talking to business owners in my part of France, many are saying that they are going to ignore the lockdown this time around.

Expect another ‘terror attack’ sometime soon.

Orhell
Orhell
Oct 29, 2020 11:10 PM

Today on Slashdot in the comments for the story about the Intercept censoring co-founder Greenwald (forcing him to resign) for daring to talk about the depraved Biden crime family…

Quote
Censorship is Bad

Those who censor journalists because they won’t adhere to a political narrative are un-American. We need to hear from all sides in order to make informed choices, particularly with an important election happening soon.

Unfortunately the people who control our newsrooms and broadcast networks don’t agree. They are all partisan political operatives now and their objective is to control the narrative.

SCORE:0, Troll
Unquote

Anyone wondering why this site allows ‘voting’ can see why from this example. Slashdot is old-school internet, but like all sites that have made it to the present, is now fully compromised by team NSA/GCHQ. Slashdot was famous (like this site- yeah right) for truly allowing ‘anonymous coward’ comments, truly uncensored, from readers with no accounts. After years of this policy, the current owners banned anon comments (unless from a registered account) when too may such comments attacked the nature and agenda of the current site owners.

In the early days, many famous ‘tech wizards’ were proud to have a Slashdot account and actually participate in the discussions. Today the tech ‘nerd’ stories act as bait for deep state ‘woke’ agenda pushing. A mob awaits anyone who dares to express WRONGTHINK, as the comment quoted above proves.

I mean, look how ‘evil’ the content of the comment is? Or, more truthfully, look how far America has come in the last few years, where even claiming US journalists should be fair and reasonable is called ‘trolling’.

Of course few go to Slashdot these days, and no-one with a brain visits save to sample the current ‘temperature’. Twitter and Reddit have swallowed such net functions whole, and both are open sewers.

Meanwhile in Britland, hours after Blair officially boasted of promoting the known child r-p-st, Greville Janner, leader of the Board of Deputies of British j–s, to the house of Lords, Janner’s old team claimed the scalp of the former leader of the Labour Party. Janner famously double teamed with Frank Beck and carried out some of the worst atrocities in British history- all covered up during his lifetime of course.

Greenwald discovered the cost of trying to expose American ‘Janner’s. But back in the day, the BBC and all british mainstream press ran defence for Janner- indeed the BBC had actually created documentaries praising the children’s homes run by Beck, and his ‘age regression’ ‘therapy’ that Beck and Janner used as cover to abuse the kids in council care, before Beck was finally prosecuted (and ‘suicided’ – dropped dead playing a game in his cushy ‘prison’ – like Epstein to protect Janner).

Corbyn is ruined, and Blair is feted by the ‘elite’ across our planet as the world’s most important senior figure. And some of you still deny that this existence actually takes place in Hell.

WhereIsScience
WhereIsScience
Oct 29, 2020 11:02 PM

I’ve seen an interesting hypothesis for the deaths of the ” First wave ”. Some people argue that a lot of heavy medication trials took place around the world and could be responsible for a lot of deaths. This being more true for why younger healthy people allegedly died from COVID19.

There was a case study on the death of a 50 yr old man where the autopsy conclude heavy liver damage that could’ve contribute to death. The man was given a full cocktail of 5-6 different drugs being themselves dangerous taken alone. The man came in the hospital with fever, cough, headache but his condition worsened rapidly after being medically treated. I cannot imagine the damage of such treatment on 70+ yr old. Add to that the aggressive ventilator push as a treatment method.

This also could explain why you have way more death/M in some European countries than their neighbors despite having more strict sanitary measures. The Swiss mountain region with Italian, French and German speaking-language communities show differences between them. The Italian/French show an increase but not the Germans. Could it be because they all have their own medical community and that the treatment used in the German counterpart was way less aggressive?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 29, 2020 11:01 PM

Here come the stories on variants. I can’t post the link because it was in my news app.

“A new variant of the coronavirus, identified as 20A.EU1 by researchers from Switzerland and Spain, was first observed in Spain in June.
It has been recorded in Spain at frequencies of above 40% since July, the study said.
Elsewhere, the new variant of the coronavirus has increased from “very low” values prior to July 15 to 40% to 70% in Switzerland, Ireland, and the U.K. in September.
It was also found to be prevalent in Norway, Latvia, the Netherlands, and France.“

This is to pre-program people to accept the idea that Covid is mutating and newer (more dangerous) strains could occur that will be deadlier during our “dark winter”. Possibly to cover up flu vaccine deaths.

In any case, smart people have already figured it SARSCov2 and Covid19 never existed.

Paul
Paul
Oct 29, 2020 11:52 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Good points. How can this virus be mutating when no one has ever isolated this virus and shown it to exist in the first place.

And this new disease Covid19 is a disease that there is no diagnosis for.

At the start we were told it’s a new strange pneumonia but no one has ever said what’s strange or new about it.

Regular pneumonia is being reclassified as a Covid pneumonia on the basis of a positive PCR test that’s non diagnostic and no one can prove it’s testing for a new virus called SARS-CoV 2 and in any case PCR cannot detect any live virus let alone an infectious disease.

This is just fear porn being pushed by mainstream media and medicine to strengthen the need for the vaccine.

This virus is just a new name for the flu which has mysteriously disappeared since March.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 3:58 AM
Reply to  Paul

And no one has ever asked how an opthamologist could have diagnosed a new pneumonia, did he have xray vision.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 5:21 AM

If you mean the opthalmologist in China, he is a certified sainted hero because he exposed the Evil Red Regime.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 6:21 AM
Reply to  mgeo

I know, and none of the western losers ever asked how an eye doctor could diagnose a chest infection.

ame
ame
Oct 30, 2020 8:54 AM
Reply to  Paul

only thing mutating is the buillshit story’s they push

RobG
RobG
Oct 29, 2020 10:55 PM

I’ve no idea what Off G is on about with all this.

The covid nonsense is all a con, easily proved.

If interested here’s Ivor Cummins on the Richie Allen show yesterday.

Or Dr Mike Yeadon on the Anna Brees channel today.

Any attempted ‘debate’ about all this is total bullshit.

We are going into a total dystopian nightmare.

And Off G’s credibility is rapidly going down the tubes.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Oct 29, 2020 11:33 PM
Reply to  RobG

“Methinks it has something to do with giving the SCAMDEMIC scammers the rope to hang themselves. Any other reason would be a breach of trust.”

LuckyLui
LuckyLui
Oct 30, 2020 12:02 AM
Reply to  RobG

Come on, you dont want to hear an argument about an outer onion layer of the onion of lies that is coroni? Assuming one desires to step closer to the truth this “debate” is pretty sad. How many more layers before we get to the debate on germ theory?

Paul
Paul
Oct 30, 2020 12:08 AM
Reply to  RobG

Rob I agree with you.

Off Guardian did some excellent research in April/May and produced an excellent article highlighting SARS-CoV 2 has never been proven to exist and there’s no scientific evidence that this PCR test is testing for the RNA of this new virus.

This has been verified by no government anywhere in the world showing evidence for the existence of this new virus.

The official narrative is a nonsense with politicians, WHO and Sage contradicting themselves constantly.

Off Guardian have been suffering a lot of censorship since and I believe that they don’t want to risk further censorship so have decided to now produce articles questioning the risk of the virus and the global response.

If this is the case Off Guardian need to produce articles that scientifically show the evidence of SARS-CoV 2 , the new disease COVID-19 otherwise they will lose credibility.

It’s pointless having debates or analysing any stats around a new virus if there is no new virus.

Otherwise it’s loyal readers and commenters will stop reading and commentating here.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 30, 2020 5:33 AM
Reply to  RobG

The best OffG articles in my opinion (I invite suggestions for others) – which are the best I’ve seen anywhere – are:

12 Steps to Create your own Pandemic, by Nils Nilsen
https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/17/12-steps-to-create-your-own-pandemic/

COVID19 PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless by independent journalists, Torsten Engelbrecht and Konstantin Demeter …
https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless

… and their unresponded to rebuttal of the alleged debunking of their article by “fact-checking” website, PolitiFact.
Open Letter: Refuting PolitiFact’s “fact check”
https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/31/open-letter-refuting-politifacts-fact-check/

In the first instance it’s the science and in the second instance it’s the science plus the significance of lack of a comeback by the alleged debunkers. What could be more compelling than that? We’d expect PolitiFact to have access to the best scientific brains, allowing them to come back and respond but No! They have NOTHING. Nada, niente, zilch!

It is the same for David Ray Griffin’s, 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory, debunking of the debunkers. Popular Mechanics had no comeback. NOTHING! Nada, niente, zilch. Like PolitiFact they would have access to the best brains to come back and debunk DRG but they couldn’t.
http://www.amazon.com.au/Debunking-11-David-Ray-Griffin/dp/156656686X

Of course, we know that they know they can’t debunk, it’s just BS to persuade uncritical thinkers … which are legion unfortunately and a class perhaps I belonged to myself for a long time, although I’ll claim ignorance rather than uncritical thinking.

Summary of points in Engelbrecht and Demeter’s first article which expose the scientific fraud from a number of angles:

— No distinctive specific symptoms for COVID-19

— Admitted lack of gold standard test for COVID-19

— PCR test used inappropriate for viral testing (its purpose was manufacturing not testing). Clear example: Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t.

— No clear evidence of origin of RNA used in test

— Authors of scientific papers claiming isolation of virus admit that purification of virus not actually done and seasoned virologist admits lack of awareness of any paper showing purification of virus

— No evidence of what is said to be the virus, SARS-CoV-2 causing COVID-19

— Test results are irrational (many individuals producing different results on multiple tests) which would only be expected when the testing method used is against scientific testing protocol

— The test contains “q” in its name, RT-qPCR, which should stand for quantitative, however, it is admitted the test is qualitative meaning it cannot test viral load which means they cannot test how many viral particles are carried in the body. For people to be considered infected a viral load needs to be determined.

— High Cycle Quantification (Cq) values undermine validity of test and some PCR tests have high Cq values (Drosten test has 45). The inventor of the test, Kary Mullis, has this to say: “If you have to go more than 40 cycles to amplify a single-copy gene, there is something seriously wrong with your PCR.”

— Before starting with PCR, in the case of presumed RNA viruses such as SARS-CoV-2, the RNA must be converted to complementary DNA (cDNA) with the enzyme Reverse Transcriptase—hence the “RT” at the beginning of “PCR” or “qPCR,” but this transformation process is “widely recognized as inefficient and variable,”

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Oct 30, 2020 7:43 PM
Reply to  RobG

Gone

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Oct 31, 2020 8:28 AM
Reply to  RobG

The point is that the vast majority of the population fully believes the narrative that is being pumped out and until that changes we have to continue with the debate.

Bobby
Bobby
Oct 29, 2020 10:50 PM

The two options Macron had tonight:

Firstly: Option 1

Destroy the economy.
Cause mass unemployment
Destroy thousands & thousands of small businesses.
Murder up to 200 thousand people through lack of healthcare, suicide etc…
Bankrupt you exchequer. Bancrupt your country.
Wreck the education of millions of children & young adults.
Induce hysterical fear into the population.
Damn millions to isolation, loneliness and despair.
Destroy your own theatre & musical culture.
Cause severe widespread metal illness.
Destroy the democratic process use control by dictate.

OR

Secondly: Option 2
Perhaps delay the spread of a flu like virus, without saving any lives in the process.

Macron chose option 1 tonight. Weird no ?

RobG
RobG
Oct 29, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  Bobby

Macron will be strung up (but I don’t want to say too much about that).

Hector
Hector
Oct 30, 2020 10:18 AM
Reply to  RobG

The French don’t muck about like us Brits and possibly the Germans. I can understand why the Spanish are reticent given their police.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 4:00 AM
Reply to  Bobby

I still don’t have the foggiest idea why these so called leaders ever went with lockdowns in the first place, they are not medical requirements for any virus.

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 9:53 PM

“Eva’s main argument is that Syrian policy re COVID19 was “nominal” and not strictly enforced.” I looked at Eva’s examples, paying close attention to the dates. Those were all early dates (April mostly). That was only one month after a pandemic was improperly declared by the corrupt WHO who Tim doesn’t seem to notice. Therefore, When Tim objects to Eva’s statements about the Syrian president having no choice but to pay lip service to the international protocols that all were manipulated / coerced into accepting, I find it surprising that he didn’t point us to examples from later months in the ‘pandemic’. Or is the ‘lip service’ continuing in Syria?

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 29, 2020 9:31 PM

Prof.Anderson’s own reference questions his alarm re apparently low (only 10%) herd immunity to “Novel Coronavirus 19”.

In British Medical Journal , BMJ, 17 September, Doshi asks:
‘Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?’

Doshi starts with the apparent reports of low herd immunity — 20% in London and New York (which is already greater than the 10% quoted by Anderson). But, having acknowledged these reports, he goes on to say, “Yet a stream of studies that have documented SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in people without exposure to the virus are raising questions about just how new the pandemic virus really is, with many implications.

Not so novel coronavirus?
At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus.”

Corona Covid (Latin for crow, a bird ie Bird Flu) viruses make up 20% of our annual flu epidemics, and have done so for the past hundred years (probably for hundreds and thousands of years before that). I would be inclined to side with Doshi rather than Anderson: there is a large percentage (20-50%) of people with pre-existing immunity to Covid, including Covid19; (if that virus is still around, which I doubt since Wuhan city lifted Lockdown last month after reporting only one death in previous months).

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 4:01 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Because if it’s anything it’s a cold. Over 1 million in China die from pollution every year, so why the hysteria over one so called virus.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 5:46 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Immunity from infection lasts only a few months. After 3 months only 16.7% had maintained high levels of antibodies. – King’s College London, 2020-07

Those who had covid-19 are likely to be immune for at least 6 months. -“top Swedish health authority” c. 2020-07

Testing and deaths in Sweden confirm that the Herd Immunity Threshhold for covid-19 is ~10-20%. Up to 81% of people may have strong immunity to covid-19 without prior exposure. -JB Handley, Off-Guardian 2020-07

Twice as many people infected by covid-19 developed T-cell mediated immunity compared to those who had detectable antibodies. -Karolinska Inst., c. 2020-07

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 6:30 AM
Reply to  mgeo

No one has had covid, there is no such virus.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 30, 2020 6:51 AM

On the contrary, Corona Covid viruses are said to contribute about one fifth to our annual global flu epidemics. Lost the Link but it must have been in some elementary Wiki on flu in general or Corona in particular.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 11:51 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

So, it is quite likely that the hallowed tests (PCR, antibody or whatever) are picking that up that garden variety, not the one a certain Empire spend billions trying to weaponise.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 30, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  mgeo

Quite Likely (Lot Better than Highly Likely, trademark HMG). In fact, a cert.

From OffG some time ago, Prof Suneitra Gupta of Oxford, one of the first to oppose Lockdown and deride the Imperial Scare Story:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/05/23/watch-prof-sunetra-gupta-on-lockdowntv/

“Professor Sunetra Gupta was one of the first scientists to publicly criticise the now widely-discredited Imperial Model. Her team’s work at Oxford suggested both that the coronavirus had been in the country much earlier than expected, and that consequently the infection fatality rate was far lower than either WHO or Imperial College had estimated. (She also appeared in our second list of experts coming out against the coronavirus hysteria).

wide-ranging interview with Unherd.com

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 3:14 PM
Reply to  mgeo

Let me provide a reference to that last bit about weaponising. In 2015, US scientists modified the SARS virus to damage lung cells. 
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Mr Y
Mr Y
Oct 30, 2020 5:26 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Please, Corona viruses are classified as causing colds!

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 31, 2020 4:10 AM
Reply to  Mr Y

Precisely, and that’s why Covid-19 death rate is lower than average flu death rate. A cold and a flu are the same, only the one is more mild and the other more bitter.

A flea and a fly in the flu.
Said the flea, Let us fly!
Said the fly, Let us flee!
So they fled threw a flaw in flu.

LKing
LKing
Oct 29, 2020 8:59 PM

Denis criticizes ‘Big Pharma’ but sides with them in dismissing socialized medicine.

There are more than two options. And even if there weren’t, people are free to criticize anything, even if it is ultimately better than the alternatives.

polistra
polistra
Oct 29, 2020 8:38 PM

Stupid argument about facts. We know by now that the demons don’t use facts. Correct facts have been available from the start, even in official sources.

Nothing stops the demons. Demons just keep killing and killing and killing and killing and killing until they are stopped by physical force.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 29, 2020 8:34 PM

To Everyone Around The World –
https://worldchangebrief.webnode.com

Simply The Most Important 15 Minutes Of This Time – In Person Interview With Solid Verification Biden Did The Things Trump Was Falsely Accused Of With Former Biden Business Partner, Military and Top Security Clearance Democrat

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 9:56 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

I get a headache just looking at that website. When they re-organize it and show me that they ‘want’ me to visit, then I might.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 29, 2020 10:02 PM
Reply to  Arby

Definitely dont want you to visit. Happy trails! : D

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Oct 29, 2020 10:54 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

Wow …. I agree . Essential evidence that Americans in particular really should see.

Tony
Tony
Oct 29, 2020 8:06 PM

Re: Alleged Covid 19 antibodies. Simply put there are none whatsoever specific to Sars-Cov-2 without the proven isolated virus required to calibrate the test – period. How many times must this be repeated before it sinks in. NO VIRUS PROVEN AS GOLD STANDARD OF COMPARISON FOR ANTIBODY TEST MEANS NO VIRAL ANTIBODIES CAN BE PROVEN TO BE SPECIFIC TO SARS-COV-2 end of story.

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 9:56 PM
Reply to  Tony

Yep.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 30, 2020 4:03 AM
Reply to  Arby

Yep and the con job continues in Australia even though finally the hysterical CHO Sutton was forced to admit his 4 ”new” cases were not cases and Andrews has finally shut up. Except for telling people to turn away sick relatives.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Oct 29, 2020 7:58 PM

There was no “pandemic”, there was a manufactured event in which the spike we see in deaths was caused by the acceleration of death of the elderly and infirmed. These deaths were compressed into a shorter time frame by administrative malfeasance (the generous account) that resulted in administrative euthanasia.

There was NO unique killer virus that landed from Venus and produced some mythical epidemiological event aka “first wave.” This is a lie- anyone perpetuating this lie is providing cover for these administrative crimes that were committed by various politicians, health officials and academics.

On the 30th of December alarms bells were raised about a supposed “new SARS virus.” Then New Years Eve comes and in China they begin to look for reagents.

On New Years Day Drosten is developing a PCR for this “new virus”, and develops the PCR test parameters, before the results from China can be verified and proven and before the Chinese results were even made public.

Amazingly Drosten’s PCR design appeared in a day- during the New Years holiday no less- with no material yet available from which to design his test.

How does that work?

The constellation of non-stop coincidences over the last 9 months is staggering. You have to be in complete denial (and be ignorant of the history of 2009 and swine flu hoax) to not understand what has been happening over these last 9 months and to simply write it off as some “mistake” or “panic” or fill in the blank.

As for Qui Bono?

Profits on Wall Street reached $27.6 billion in the first six months of the year, an 82% increase over the same period in 2019 and nearly equal to all of 2019’s pre-tax earnings of $28.1 billion.

As an aside Glenn Greenwald resigned from The Intercept today. Read here:

My Resignation From The Intercept
The same trends of repression, censorship and ideological homogeneity plaguing the national press generally have engulfed the media outlet I co-founded, culminating in censorship of my own articles.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/my-resignation-from-the-intercept

Maxwell
Maxwell
Oct 29, 2020 8:53 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Greenwald releases first draft of article which catalyzed his resignation from The Intercept which he co-founded:

Article on Joe and Hunter Biden Censored By The Intercept
An attempt to assess the importance of the known evidence, and a critique of media lies to protect their favored candidate, could not be published at The Intercept
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/article-on-joe-and-hunter-biden-censored

Apologies for being off topic here….but does Timmy deserve even a speck of respect- providing cover for such criminals as he does I think not.

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 10:26 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

I’m finding it harder and harder to even read material, by those on our side or their’s, that’s full of (in my view) nonsense about viruses and pandemics. Even when the subject isn’t directly about the Sars CoV 1 & 2 viruses (junk that they haven’t a clue about, but which they go ahead a call viruses), they talk about vaccines and medicines in such way – framing – as to imply that fantasy (viruses, the pandemic) is reality. I’m wasting my time reading all of it. I’ll read a little – it’s unavoidable, for those who are trapped in the Rockefeller ideological worldview are almost everyone, good and bad – but I have to avoid a lot of it just to stay sane and have time for my own work.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Oct 29, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  Arby

I hear you.

It’s a pretty tough leap for most to recognize everything is a fraud. Too bad they can’t see how it liberates them and allows them to see clearly what is happening all around them. I’ve always preferred a straightforward and honest look at the fraud rather than the constant pulling of endless threads that lead to nowhere.

There is no killer virus from Venus.

There was no pandemic.

There are no kinder-gentler fascists.

Arby
Arby
Oct 30, 2020 12:08 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

Acknowledged.

Sol
Sol
Oct 29, 2020 9:38 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

If you truly are the great journalist which you claim to be, why don’t you write a piece on UVC technology?
If what you are saying is true, “and for what I see I’m starting to believe it to,” considering the fact that no one would publish such point of view on any mainstream media, you could challenge the logic of their scamdemic and of its deadly lock down by publishing a paper based on actual documents proofing the cost efficiency of devices which can set humanity free not just from this scamdemic, but also from potential future ones, as well as from potential real pandemics.

It is obvious, that as long as anybody is allowed to developed viruses and biological weapons, the risk of a real outbreak of some truly deadly pathogen, is a reality which Is ready to come true.

Anyhow, if we can now use this insane situation to realize and build an efficient defense from all deadly viruses, we can make sure not only to end the ongoing horror situation, but also prevent future ones.

Research UVC and Photo plasma
I attach a very old video of a device used also by the US military and navy which explains how this device now deemed by Pigpharma carcinogenic, was and actually is even now used (beside for killing, or as they say, cooking pathogens, bacterias and viruses) to cure skin and bone disease.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_logo&v=rn-Fbag_1v4

Sol
Sol
Oct 29, 2020 9:42 PM
Reply to  Sol

Wops comment went to the wrong person,
Anyway same goes for ya.
UVC to set us free.

ame
ame
Oct 29, 2020 10:17 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

online you should find a newspaper article hopefully from LAST year December sirael about them being told a p[pandemic would come from china
always interesting how they get told in advance like 911

Maxwell
Maxwell
Oct 29, 2020 10:38 PM
Reply to  ame

Do you have that link?

ame
ame
Oct 29, 2020 10:48 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

i would of sup[plied it otherwise Maxwell

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 10:20 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

“Prior to the extraordinary experience of being censored this week by my own news outlet, I had already been exploring the possibility of creating a new media outlet.” Very good Glenn. I wish you luck. But I have no interest in any media outlet created by someone who has high praise for class traitors like Naomi Klein (who blames ‘all’ of the world’s problems on Christianity and the Bible). Then there’s Murtaza Hussein, who wrote admiringly of the terrorist / propaganda organization known as the White Helmets. And, really, your willingness to work with Nazi Ukraine-funder Pierre Omidyar, alone, is unforgivable. The Pando (before it was sold and became rightwing trash) writers, in my view, had your, and Jeremy Scahill’s, measure correctly.

I think that Glenn has done outstanding reporting. Which is why this, all of this, is such a big shame.

“Revealed: Visitor logs show full extent of Pierre and Pamela Omidyar’s cozy White House ties” by Paul Bradley Carr

“Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show” by Mark Ames

“On the importance of keeping investors out of the newsroom, and not treating your readers like fools” by Paul Bradley Carr

It occurs to me that I should ferret away those articles before they disappear.

Sol
Sol
Oct 29, 2020 7:54 PM

Again you are missing the elephant in the room.
Finland is one of the countries with lowest rate in Europe.
Here no lockdown, no mandatory mask.
When the so called virus hit Europe, here in Finland no one was wearing the masks and by the way, they ware not available anywhere , not in pharmacies, and not even in hard wear stores.
The greatest number of dead was like anywhere on the plane, in homes for the old people Summer came and all restrictions ware lifted till about one month ago when came in place the advise of the government to wear mask on public transport.
At that time 9400 total cases reported.
After one month the reported cases grew in parallel with the growing number of people wearing the masks bringing the total of number of the infected to 15566
Yet, journalists talk about Sweden, which as nearly ten times more reported cases than about Finland, and I wonder WHY?
Ho, one more thing worth mentioning, in the last month, the unmistakable mild smell of ozone which I could smell at nearly every metro stations of the city of Helsinki, (and I can recognize it because I use an air cleaner which produces it) is gone.
And in final WHY THE HELL ARE JOURNALISTS IGNORING A CENTURY OLD TECHNOLOGY DESIGNED TO KILL ALL GERMS, MITES, AND VIRUS (UVC)
AND KEEP ON BULLSHITING EVERYONE?

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 30, 2020 6:40 AM
Reply to  Sol

Also, why are they not talking about Belarus? Because the masters have declared it Evil and fit for Regime Change? Cuba has one of the strictest lockdowns, but is still struggling with the mysterious disease.

UVC, sunshine, fresh air, vit. C, HCQ, etc. are contrary to the religion of profiteering.

Sol
Sol
Oct 30, 2020 10:14 AM
Reply to  mgeo
BigFoot
BigFoot
Oct 29, 2020 7:25 PM

Immunity comes from two factors: developing specific antibodies to the virus and activating a general immune response. Yet after some months we know that COVID19 antibodies in heavily affected cities are only at about 10%, a long way from the necessary levels for ‘herd immunity’ with a highly infectious disease.” This is the usual demagogy from the lockdowners. While he mentions activating a general immune response” (presumably referring to T-cells) in the first sentence, he completely disregards it in the second sentence. The T-cell immunity has been consistently estimated at 40-80% since April, depending on the population. The 10% number is an outright lie; it was estimated at over 20% in New York City and Stockholm back in early May.

The rejection of preventive health measures has drawn on simplistic ideas about immunity, such as that surviving a one-time contact with any new virus confers life-long immunity.” More spin. Nobody has said that people should not wash their hands, or cover their mouths/noses when when they cough/sneeze, or stay home when they are sick.

But while some viruses can be controlled by natural immunity, others evade attempts at either Darwinian immunity or immunity by vaccine. Some like HIV/AIDS cause chronic persistent disease and in others, including COVID19, there is reinfection.” CoViD-19 is presumably more like other respiratory viruses, such other coronoviruses and flus, rather than HIV/AIDS. There is no need for life-long immunity”, just long-term, as happens with other respiratory viruses. As a matter of fact, there have been only a few confirmed cases of reinfection out of 50M confirmed cases and 750M estimated (WHO: 10% of the world’s population). If there were no long-term immunity to CoViD-19, then there would clearly be no point of waiting for a vaccine, and we should certainly get back to normal.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Oct 29, 2020 9:34 PM
Reply to  BigFoot

HIV, like SARS-CoV-2,is another virus that has never been purified and isolated. There is no scientific study that proves it causes AIDS. Kary Mullis went looking for one and couldn’t find one. Kary Mullis asked the top AIDS experts to show him one and they couldn’t.

AIDS is a syndrome, not a specific disease. It has a long list of possible symptoms, none of which is specific to AIDS. All have other possible explanations, other than this mythical virus.

And some “AIDS victims” were killed by their treatments, just as some “covid-19” victims were killed by their treatments (ventilation;too high doses of HCQ).

Arby
Arby
Oct 29, 2020 10:27 PM
Reply to  BigFoot

“specific antibodies to the virus” Dr Andrew Kaufman would disagree with that idea.

Wile E. Coyote
Wile E. Coyote
Oct 29, 2020 7:00 PM

Does anyone have a link to the peer-reviewed study or research that identifies the new virus and/or a study that proves it is contagious? I’ve been looking for it for months and just don’t know what I’m doing perhaps.

BigFoot
BigFoot
Oct 29, 2020 7:29 PM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

According to the CDC manual for the CoViD PCR test updated July 13 (bottom of p39), the CoViD virus has never been isolated. The manual is on their website, and google finds it: CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel

Wile E. Coyote
Wile E. Coyote
Oct 29, 2020 7:37 PM
Reply to  BigFoot

So, then, what are these two brainiacs going on and on about?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 29, 2020 10:25 PM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

They’re creating a narrative around a fictional idea to draw attention away from what is really happening; Agenda 21.

The Acme2000 Distracto-Thread.

Chris
Chris
Oct 30, 2020 7:18 AM
Reply to  Researcher

That’s because direct knowledge of what’s really happening would cause most of this planets surface population to die immediately of pure astonishment.

Watermen
Watermen
Oct 30, 2020 2:16 AM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

“Sigh, yes, the ‘COVID virus’ is real”See this article at Virology Down Under. Covid has apparently been isolated.
https://virologydownunder.com/sigh-yes-the-covid-virus-is-real/#comments

Wile E. Coyote
Wile E. Coyote
Oct 30, 2020 3:34 AM
Reply to  Watermen

grows on monkey and cancer cells, or embryonic tissue is what those studies prove. how does that affect humans?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 30, 2020 11:06 AM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

Doesn’t affect humans. They proved a) that it cannot infect human cells. b) They are measuring proteins anyway.

If you dose the dying monkey kidney cells with a poison mixture of antibiotic and fungicide they produce proteins and exosomes, which is what the fraudulent scientists claim are “viruses”. It’s a scam. A con. A game to sell vaccines. Let me tell you something, they know it’s a scam. Because they’ve never been able to show contagion. That is, they cannot make a single healthy person sick from the mucous or spittle of another person. It’s never been done. Not with any ”virus”.

There was a doctor at the beginning of the twentieth century who was so convinced Smallpox wasn’t a contagious disease, he smeared pus from the burst pustules of his smallpox patient all over his face and hands and then proceeded not to wash his hands or face but to go about his day to business, eating, kissing his family, tending to patients, shaking hands with people and not a single person got sick.

It’s all fraud. Viruses aren’t contagious and they don’t exist.

Wile E. Coyote
Wile E. Coyote
Oct 30, 2020 1:03 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Where, oh, where has the waterman gone? Where, oh, where can he be?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 30, 2020 2:39 PM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

Onto another thread with a new name.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 30, 2020 11:00 AM
Reply to  Watermen

No it is not.

Paul
Paul
Oct 29, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  BigFoot

Usually down with ddos, but worth a look. An FOI request to prove the virus has been isolated – unable to do so : https://www.thebernician.net/covid-1984-foi-request-uk-government-admits-virus-doesnt-exist/amp/#click=https://t.co/LHr50Fi7kp

ame
ame
Oct 29, 2020 10:24 PM
Reply to  Wile E. Coyote

 peer-reviewed study start with Hollywood CGI actually with the CV front page all over he world i thought they used the same graphic designer artist who does the nasa moon photos it the same people the only thing contagious is the bukllshit from the media and poly trickons

PWL
PWL
Oct 29, 2020 6:23 PM

The proposition is that a sasquatch call is like that of a bear.

Covid-19 in a nutshell

CHAOSON
CHAOSON
Oct 29, 2020 7:02 PM
Reply to  PWL

There are a lot of people out there who write about viruses as if they know what they are talking about. VIROLOGY IS A SCAM SCIENCE. What “virus” actuallymeans is “we don’t know wtf we’re looking at here but we need a pathogen so we can develop the vaccines”.

It is the same kind of “science” as that of “dark matter”, the “Big Bang”, “junk DNA” etc…. They make up stuff so as to fill the massive gaps in their theories. Every honest and intelligent person who has done science at university level will be familiar with this practice.

Behind all this is a great ignorance of the human body, human health and disease. The men in white coats need to be in charge of our lives, and their careers and bank accounts are far more important than you, your children or your elderly parents.

They are also quite keen to vaccinate the darker races of the planet quite a lot more than themselves.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Oct 29, 2020 7:34 PM
Reply to  CHAOSON

”VIROLOGY IS A SCAM SCIENCE…. They make up stuff so as to fill the massive gaps in their theories. Every honest and intelligent person who has done science at university level will be familiar with this practice.”

The post – graduates who have done Science will be able to cite some references to this I take it. They would have had to in University.

”The men in white coats need to be in charge of our lives,”

I think politicians want that. The men in white coats are their servants. When they’re not busy locking lunatics up.

”They are also quite keen to vaccinate the darker races of the planet quite a lot more than themselves.”

That’s not true now. It was. And it was for 100 years. Those who immediately followed Darwin, Malthus and Galton were keen to prove scientifically, that the negro wasn’t of the same race as the Homo sapien . It helped them to resolve their racial hygiene programme within their collective conscience. These nutcases are telling us that they’re genetically superior to the rest of us while being that messed up. Welcome to class apartheid.

Where the Gates / WHO travelling circus of murder went, death and disease soon arrived. The magic needles. White rats replaced by black babies. Perfect guinea pigs for AIDS / HIV and so forth.

America has a long and distinguished history of experimenting not only on it’s own military, but on the hundreds of what Darwinian elitists would come to refer to as ‘undesirables’. That included the poor, prisoners, unemployed, single expectant mothers and so on.

Now we have, according to the skewed data and dishonest ‘research’ regarding the climate, all become the Jew; the negro; the undesirable. We 99.99% have become what Hinduism called the pariah caste., the outcasts. Now, we’re all lining up to walk into the showers..

Don’t kid yourself there are no viruses. They’ve been here far longer than we have. And they managed that through evolution. Now, the psychopaths have mastered how to breed them and weaponize them. Believe it or not, there’s evidence that viruses can have an effect on one or two channels or both. The body and the mind. The two things the owners of us want control over. They can achieve it by stealth now. Look how many millions are dancing when told to. And that’s only through the fear of the thing…

invitado
invitado
Oct 29, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  CHAOSON

And such an arrogant ignorance. They take the unimaginable richness and complexity of living creatures (those thousands of chemical reactions per second in each of our countless cells, those billions of endogenous bacterias and n times more of so-called-viruses, without which we would not be alive one second -we are them), and turn it into some simplistic mechanistic explanation, reeking with good-old theology. The problem is that having done that, they decide they can improve it with some insane massively produced crap which they shoot into your organism (just an example of the ways they think they can improve it). The truth is that, given that they have abstracted from the real complexity of life as it happens, there will be an incalculable array of consequences to their intervention.

Hubris.

Hector
Hector
Oct 30, 2020 10:38 AM
Reply to  CHAOSON

I agree with all that except the last sentence. Undoubtedly people of colour who live in the global south are in the firing line. But so are Europeans in the global North. I would conject that “they” despise both.