358

Trying to Put All America Behind

Edward Curtin

Sixty years ago this summer, on August 7, 1961, President John Kennedy signed the bill creating The Cape Cod National Seashore in Massachusetts. It consists of forty miles of immaculate sandy beach, marshes, ponds, and upland along the Atlantic Ocean, with some portions stretching across the land to Cape Cod Bay in the west.

Henry Thoreau walked this wild Outer Atlantic Beach in 1849.  He said you can stand there and look out to sea and “put all America behind” you.

I am trying to do that as I stand looking at the waves breaking on a foggy early morning shore.  I am alone except for the hundreds of seals moaning on a sand bar and the gulls fishing in the tidal inlet at the far southern end of Coast Guard Light Beach.  A few laughing gulls swoop by as if to mock me with their laugh-like calls.

It is very hard to put the United States of America behind you when the fog of an endless propaganda war warps your mind and tries to crush your spirit even when you look away as far as the eye can see.

Across the ocean to the northeast, Mathew Arnold, on a far distant shore in England, wrote his famous poem “Dover Beach” at about the same time that Thoreau was walking where I stand.

Two very different men standing in different worlds, not just one at a window and the other in the blowing wind.

The former was an academically connected school inspector whose faith, vague as it was, was falling away as he described in “Dover Beach”: the turbulent ebb and flow of the breaking waves of faith that was being replaced by the sad withdrawing roar of melancholic human misery, devoid of love, light, joy, certitude, or help for pain. 

It was the rhythmic sound of world-weariness and declining faith in the Old World.

The latter, a child of the New World, harsh critic though he was of the resigned lives of quiet desperation most people live, was still a man of deep if unorthodox faith in the divine, telling us that most people are determined not to live by faith if they can help it, as if anyone could live without faith in something, whether that something be God, skepticism, atheism, or the then-emerging new god of science.

He considered people’s constant distrustful anxiety an incurable disease and he would no doubt consider the current religion of science a subject for his withering scorn and underappreciated humor. 

Try imagining the government telling Thoreau that he had to be vaccinated and he needed a document to travel by stagecoach from his home in Concord to the Cape.

The young rebel Thoreau (he was in his early thirties like Arnold) still held to the conviction that if enough people gave serious attention to the transcendent nature of their natural surroundings and lived by its divine revelations, a new world was possible.  But also only if they simplified their lives and lived by principles that excluded the mad pursuit of money, slavery, and the worship of false gods. 

This was eleven years before the American Civil War, which Thoreau didn’t survive.  He died on May 6, 1862.  His final words were: “Now comes good sailing.”

Arnold died at age sixty-six of a heart attack while running to catch a train.

Old and new symbols of power marked their final journeys: the iron horse and wind-filled sails.

Where Arnold saw a nightmarish illusion in the sea, Thoreau saw wonder and possibility, but not devoid of possible doom.  Although often cast as a wild dreamer, Thoreau had his feet planted solidly in plain reality.

“I sat down on the boundless level and enjoyed the solitude, drank it in, the medicine for which I had pined,” wrote Thoreau, so I followed his lead and sat on a stretch of sand with no human in sight and gazed at the glimmer of a fading moon until I lost my senses. 

For a few minutes I was gone.

But nature and solitude do not necessarily quiet the mind, and when I returned from my cataleptic state the wind was blowing from the west and the USA snuck up behind my back.  America may be hard to find, but it’s also hard to lose.

The wind blew my mind’s eye straight across the imaginary northern latitude line to Cannes, France and its Film Festival where Oliver Stone’s new documentary, “JFK Revisited: Through the Looking-Glass,” written by James DiEugenio, has just premiered.

It is hard here on the sands of the Cape not to think of JFK, especially since he saved these sands for posterity, a bit of the USA that remains if you ever go looking for it. He saved this land whose evil CIA forces slayed him. And the ironic thing about Stone’s documentary is that he could find no US backers for his film and had to go to Arnold’s Old-World England to get the money to tell this inherently American story, which still doesn’t have a distributor in the United States.

Thirty years ago, his movie JFK was sabotaged by the CIA-controlled media as a fictional illusion, and now the truth is still verboten here.  But Stone will win out.  For his new work tells the same story but tells it straight with facts, the same facts, and more, that supported JFK in 1991. 

And the facts tell an overwhelming tale of truth, not the nonsense still proffered by disinformation specialists that JFK was a war-monger, a phony, and a cold warrior to the end.  Those accusations are either lies or ignorance, as if the CIA would want to assassinate him if they were true.

JFK was murdered because he was trying to end the Cold War, eliminate nuclear weapons through negotiations with the Soviet Union, withdraw American military advisers from Vietnam, rein in the CIA, and reduce the power of the military-industrial complex.

This is why he was killed.

These are among what Stone calls “conspiracy facts,” and even as I look out at the wild Atlantic and try “to put America behind” me for a short respite, the wind fills my mind with their contemporary importance.

Stone is out front where you can see and hear him, while the CIA always operates behind our backs.

As I return to myself and my contemplation of the ocean, a lone fisherman approaches and passes me with a nod and a rod.  I soon see him disappear around the strand where the inlet flows like a strong river deep into the marshes.  Memory tells me Thoreau was right to say that:

many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish that they are after.”

Thoreau knew he was always obsessively fishing for elusive truth and needed no bait, only his eyes and ears and the deep state he entered when he cast his pencil across the vastness of an empty page.

Oliver Stone, too, has spent his life chasing the light of truth to expose the crimes of another deep state, the despicable men who conspired to execute JFK, the man who many a day looked out upon these waters and saw a vision of a new country he hoped to bring to reality even at the risk of his life. A country devoted to peace and domestic tranquility.

It is so beautiful where I sit.  The sun is breaking through the fog and blue patches stipple the heavens. Call it dreamy.

Here the Nauset Indians fished these waters long before Thoreau.  Fishing for them was like the clam shells that litter the beach.  It was bifold, providing sustenance for body and soul, and their connection to the Cape eco-system was sacred. (I ask them for forgiveness for using the word eco-system.)

This was long before the profane skepticism and faith in science of Arnold’s mind and times seeped in to poison land, water, and consciousness, not to mention human and animal bodies.

As I recall, “Dover Beach” was composed a few decades after the first generally accepted laboratory synthesis of a naturally occurring organic compound from inorganic materials. Only yesterday I saw many beachgoers spraying themselves with canisters of chemicals that are the offspring of that original synthetic creation that is called urea but which I call piss. 

I don’t know what the Nausets called it, but I am sure they did what I did as I got up and pissed into the wind and water, hoping it wouldn’t come back to get me.  It was a relief, although my mind kept reeling backwards historically.

The white invaders – they like to be called explorers – led by Captain Thomas Hunt, arrived on the Cape in 1614 and captured seven Nausets together with twenty from the Pawtucket tribe and sold them into slavery. There is so much US history that is hard to stomach. Thinking of the slaughter of native peoples from California to the New York island can only make a US American deeply ashamed. 

When Woody Guthrie composed and sang “This Land Is Your Land,” I hope he had a double entendre in mind, for surely the shore I sit upon is soaked with the blood and tears of many an innocent soul whose land was stolen from them.

It is no exaggeration to say that from the enlarging sandbar the seals’ moans sound like restless ghosts. The wind carries their ancient calls like a Greek chorus above the crashing waves.  I feel as though I am attending a sacred rite that is both a funeral, a celebration, and a call to resist.

The music haunts me.  My mind’s eye ebbs with the receding tide.  More sand bars emerge as the sun pierces the fog veiling the water and my mind.

Behind me across the narrow strip of land and Cape Cod Bay lies the city of Boston.  It was built to its current renown on the money made by its famous blue blood families through the opium trade that killed so many Chinese in the 19th century.  They were money-obsessed, bloodthirsty killers. I don’t think they warned the Chinese that they were being sold a drug pandemic. 

You have heard their “illustrious” names: Forbes, Cabot, Cushing, Weld, Delano (the grandfather of Franklin Delano Roosevelt) and Perkins. 

These drug dealers laundered their massive drug profits by giving to Harvard, founding Massachusetts General Hospital, and creating Boston’s renown reputation for culture and education.

First the native Americans and then the Chinese and Vietnamese and Afghanis, et al. – it makes no difference whose blood was shed to create an elegant city upon a hill, a beacon of human benevolence – and to keep it going.  The beat goes on.  It is a war of drugs, foreign and domestic.  Follow the trail.

These “illustrious” families were also crucial in the founding of the CIA whose tentacles stretch their banking interests in black operations worldwide.  These are the criminals they like to call the Agency whose existence is sustained through drugs and blood.  Agents of death.

It is terrible to think such thoughts on this beautiful beach, but my forgettery seems to fail me when the wind is blowing from behind.

And to think the disinformation specialists doing the CIA’s bidding have for years tried to denigrate those Irish upstarts, the Kennedys, by falsely claiming Joseph Kennedy made his fortune in the illegal liquor business and in association with the Mob.  The CIA’s war on the Kennedys, and their murder of their leading men, is a multi-faceted operation, as Oliver Stone will show you.

Here on the beach the light now seems to be chasing me.  I look to my left and see a figure walking my way.  It is time for me to leave.  I turn and start walking north, back to civilization. 

As the figure gets nearer, I see it’s a woman.  I gasp at the mask she is wearing.  No doubt she has taken the drug the authorities have told her was necessary to inject if she wanted to be safe and join the crowd.  The drug trade is where the money is. It runs on lies, but it brings power and glory and will anesthetize your fears until it is too late.  It’s not a new story, and it brings death.

We pass and she looks away.

I hear the laughing gulls and turn to see the seals standing on the waves howling in delight as they clap their flippers in applause.  I’m happy to laugh along.

In the distance I see a boat heading for land.

The wind off the water blows this Dylan song into my ears:

Edward Curtin is an independent writer whose work has appeared widely over many years. His website is edwardcurtin.com and his new book is Seeking Truth in a Country of Lies.

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jude
jude
Jul 27, 2021 3:36 PM

Beautiful, thank you. I find myself reading your articles, shorts maybe? and before i’ve checked the author and just a few paragraphs in I know i’m going to read it all and I know it’s Edward Curtin.

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 10:53 PM

It’s interesting to me that when I first read this article in global research, I knew it would provoke a firestorm of criticism when it appeared in OffG.

That’s not a bad thing though. An article should inspire a wealth of differing views. There’s nothing more meaningless than a chorus of praise for an article. The love fests of the 60s had their day; and all the love festers have grown up and become middle or upper management Yuppies with very little love in their hearts for their employees.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Jul 27, 2021 4:52 AM
Reply to  Howard

UK yuppies born around 1965 grew up with Central Banking their children are generation Z for th 21st century.

Irresponsible and proud
Irresponsible and proud
Jul 26, 2021 9:15 PM

I have never heard of those things you claim. I find it hard to believe that a us president could be so naive to aim for a democratic society and win the elections. I also think Oliver Stone really was nostalgic about the good ol’ days himself when he directed Wall Street, dedicating the movie to his dad (who, according to wikipedia, was a broker) and Stone himself VOLUNTEERING to go to Vietnam. It’s an illusion to think that capitalism will lead to freedom-through-technology as long as we have good leadership. The workers must bypass representation and fight all powers.

Rubicon
Rubicon
Jul 27, 2021 1:10 AM

My friend, you are looking from afar, in present times. You weren’t probably alive when JFK’s father, the patriarch of the family fought tooth & nail against the formation of the CIA, with his sons (JFK & Bobby Kennedy) who later took up the fight, knowing that the US was going down the wrong road with the formation of the CIA, and the US military.
Yes, Oliver Stone was “nostalgic” for the “good ole days” because, my friend, they were “good ole days” – before Neo-Liberalism raised its ugly head under Reagan & Thatcher. That was the pivotal shift away from America as a pillar of “democracy.
JFK and Bobby Kennedy represented a far more “happy time” when people earned good wages with health care/retirement options. But now, many decades later, and to Stone’s dismay, the country has been financialized. Multi-billionaires who pay not taxes, whose lobbyist attorneys work hard in corrupting every politician with $$$$ from the Federal Level all the way down to your local council members. All for the sake of elusive riches for themselves. We are now plumbing the depths of a faltering hegemony. Enjoy your ride, my friend.

Irresponsible and proud
Irresponsible and proud
Jul 27, 2021 9:15 AM
Reply to  Rubicon

I am really curious to watch the new documentary… So are you saying that Kennedy washed his hands clean from the bay of pigs? And what about the money of the patriarch? I am aware of the intelligence agencies vendetta against the Kennedies. I remember when the last one had a aeroplane accident, my father mumbled to himself (hoping i would hear it) that “they want them all”. But how am I supposed to trust a politician? That would mean I am not aware of all the historic forces. And I am not enjoying the current state of affairs one bit.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
Jul 26, 2021 7:06 PM

I’m not sure what this piece is trying to say (and mixing Covid into it just looks contrived). The thing that sets America apart is that it might be one physical country but it has numerous power centers, all with their own agendas and often at odds with each other. Its a state that I’ve described as ‘organized anarchy’, in one sense a democracy but all to easily subverted by concentrations of wealth and power into a more feudal way of living. While the young country was isolated and self contained it worked but as it became a global player it has become increasingly difficult to formulate cohesive policies, both domestic and foreign.

The US exerts undue influence over large parts of the world so it needs a responsible government that is careful about what it says and does. If its captured by individuals or forces that don’t realize this then we can create mayhem. The entire Covid debacle was caused by a cynical election calculus but because of the US’s power and influence legions have swarmed to justify this reasoning, to fill in the intellectual blanks as it were. This veneer of faux intellectualism is still being exploited by the power brokers because having temporarily been checked in their quest for absolute power they’re plotting their triumphant return in a year or so. It would be to our advantage to unmask these people for what they are; we can’t censor their misinformation because freedom implies free speech, good and bad, but we have to counter them when and how we can.

Tony_0pmoc
Tony_0pmoc
Jul 26, 2021 6:41 PM

Ed Curtin, I have finished reading your book now. I might be the other side of the pond, but I was with you. I would recommend it to anyone as a book at bedtime, as you slowly slip away into dreamland.

My Dad was a sailor and an engineer between World War 1 and Word War 2 . Merchant Navy.

He wanted to discover America (before he met my Mum).

So the British ship dropped him off in San Francisco about 1930, and they agreed to pick him up in New York 6 months later.

He didn’t have any money, but he could fix anything. So he travelled across America, working his way to New York. He wouldn’t use a condom, so its entirely possible I have some half brothers and sisters in the USA.

My Son is a sailor and an engineer now. He has inherited all the skills of my Dad…

and so I understand completely “I am alone except for the hundreds of seals moaning on a sand bar and the gulls fishing in the tidal inlet at the far southern end of Coast Guard Light Beach.”

We did this last August. We were planning on 4-5 Days, but had to shelter from a horrendous storm in The Scilly Islands…and we were running out of food. It got worse his anchor chain, got wrapped around rocks, and whilst my lad can freedive, he couldn’t untangle the anchor chain. So he trecked to the other side of the island, hoping to hire some diving gear. No one there. So he gets back to the beach, and there were a few other Sailing boats there with young kids like us. Has anyone got any diving gear..This guy says Yes. He has got a friend for life there.

Dunno where we are going next, but I am most definitely taking my fishing gear again. We lived mainly on Pollock. The Gannets, were just completely Amazing. They are the real dive bombers. I had never seen anything like it.

I discovered Sailing at the age of 65, and am completely hooked. This is not my video, but it was like this. You have got to live your life.

“Northern Gannets Diving & Fishing (Northern Gannet’s Colony)”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991ZOwv2w0c

Tony

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 6:44 PM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

You might be the other side of the pond – but you’re not

Tony_0pmoc
Tony_0pmoc
Jul 26, 2021 6:45 PM
John Pretty
John Pretty
Jul 26, 2021 11:59 PM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

I’ve twice tonight tried to remonstrate with this woman. Every time it goes into the spam box.

I wish you well Tony. I wouldn’t put up with it. It’s harrassment.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 10:33 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

No. It is not ‘harassment’. But I tell you what is harassment – 1) googling my name and publishing details of a person he thinks is me on this website. 2) emailing me the same stuff and sending me comments about how he hopes to see me at Womad etc.

So please express equal displeasure about that if you are all about deploring harassment.

OffG allows him to post on-topic because they try to be as open as possible, but his OT lies about his made-up life are fair game. He can stop posting that nonsense if he doesn’t like the responses.

And you are only going after me because I embarrassed you on a different thread when you talked nonsense about false flags being impossible. You ran away on that occasion and then popped back to snipe at me on different topics.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 7:41 PM

Has anyone ever sat down and worked up a biography on Tony? Nearly every time he/she/it comments an admin comes along to remind us that Tony is, apparently, all things to all people at all times. I’m just curious what a compilation of all these things would look like. What kind of “person” would appear.

Like, would it end up that- in addition to taking up sailing at 65 -Tony also took up paragliding, windsurfing, molecular biology, toenail collecting, ran for MP, etc. in that same year?

I guess I feel like it’s just a shame that such a varied and fascinating life as Tony’s apparently leads isn’t being promoted to a wider audience. It all sounds very inspring, the more I learn.

shamen
shamen
Jul 26, 2021 10:48 PM
Reply to  Joki

admin and tony seem to have this very strange relationship.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Jul 26, 2021 11:58 PM
Reply to  shamen

She’s obsessed. God’s knows why.

Mehitabel
Mehitabel
Jul 27, 2021 10:37 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

errr…says the guy who can’t stop following her round 🤣

John Pretty
John Pretty
Jul 26, 2021 11:54 PM
Reply to  Joki

I’m sure he’d be a more interesting person than you are.

J0ki
J0ki
Jul 27, 2021 12:51 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

I don’t doubt it either. My biggest claim to fame is winning an art contest in the 3rd grade and being mentioned for it in the local paper. No one seemed to care much then, and in fact the prize was stolen from me not long after, so I think you’re onto something.

Mehitabel
Mehitabel
Jul 27, 2021 10:39 AM
Reply to  Joki

On a different board (was it Reddit? Alternet?) he apparently was saying he was a US college professor. His posting times here suggest he lives in the US time zone.

Portonchok
Portonchok
Jul 26, 2021 7:16 PM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

You’re often way off topic Tony, sorry to say that, but this post of yours was great, really enjoyed it, thank you for sharing your experience.

I can just picture you scoffing pollock like a gannet. It’s a lovely fish, very much under-rated.

That, and a big portion of home made chips, peas, tartare sauce or mayo, a slice of lemon on the fish and a dash of malt vinegar on the chips…plus a glass or even bottle of dry smooth white wine from my favourite vineyard = absolute bliss.

Peter
Peter
Jul 27, 2021 4:24 AM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

I have watched Gannets and Boobies plunge dive in the ocean. Amazing sights. Nature at it’s best. Unfortunately I have seen a dead gannet on a beach with fishing line wrapped around it’s neck.

Clive Williams
Clive Williams
Jul 27, 2021 6:19 AM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

Blimey! Scilly Isles we went there often in the 60’s by helicopter torrey canyon Harold Wilson and all that. My family loved it, mostly remember strong gales rough seas.
That tanker got bombed I think, wow going back a bit.

Mehitabel
Mehitabel
Jul 27, 2021 10:42 AM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

I have a question. If this is your real life why do you never post any actual pics you took yourself? Why are you always posting stock images or other people’s footage. Take a photo of your boat, or your frogs or your garden or your son’s e-scooter. Yeah?

2fat2surf
2fat2surf
Jul 26, 2021 6:14 PM

If you want a real good clue as to who is behind the Kennedy murders (all three). Just look at who was chosen as a patsy for the murder of Robert Kennedy; a Palestinian.

Tommy Prince
Tommy Prince
Jul 26, 2021 5:18 PM

“JFK was murdered because he was trying to end the Cold War, eliminate nuclear weapons through negotiations with the Soviet Union, withdraw American military advisers from Vietnam, rein in the CIA, and reduce the power of the military-industrial complex.”

He also wanted to end the israeli nuclear weapons program at Dimona

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Jul 26, 2021 3:32 PM

The take home message should be: People need to quit getting their “information” from films and movies. Read my lips: Movies are fantasy, a method of escape from realty. Producers like Oliver Stone and all the rest of the hacks, have hijacked the human mind with bullshit dramas and theater. > Reality? <

Here’s the reality that John F Kennedy disclosed to the public in 1961: >
 
If you are awaiting a finding of ‘clear and present danger’, then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear; and, its presence has never been more imminent. It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in mission; by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader and by every newspaper.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence; on infiltration instead of invasion; on subversion instead of elections; on intimidation instead of free choice; on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.
It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly-knit, highly-efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published; its mistakes are buried, not headlined; its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned; no rumor is printed; no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match… there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.” 

Hello?

Portonchok
Portonchok
Jul 26, 2021 7:19 PM

I can’t agree with your criticism of Stone. At least in the past decade or two he has produced some remarkable doumentaries, the very best. He’s definitely rebelling against the Empire in recent times.

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Jul 27, 2021 12:49 AM
Reply to  Portonchok

Hello Portonchok Yes, Mr Stone has produced remarkable documentaries. But have these productions changed how civilian populations relate to, or perceive, a rational civil narrative?

My point is that the human brain is a very complex device. Different areas of brain function (typically limbic) > Limbic System: Amygdala, Hypothalamus, Thalamus (thoughtco.com) are utilized for watching and listening to film.

Other areas of the brain are utilized for direct experience, such as face to face contact, or walking in a nature preserve. Experiencing a film production, forms a passive relationship to a perceived stimulant. These different brain functions have been studied for decades…

Films are entertainment. They mesmerize the audience, and are often designed to misinform…

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 2:33 PM

A somewhat disjointed article ? Designed to evoke guilt or some other form of angst in well-off Americans , who were the beneficiaries of the conquest of North America perhaps ?

Edwige
Edwige
Jul 26, 2021 2:03 PM

Some of the more obscure corners of Oliver Stone’s career tell plenty about his true nature:

1) SALVADOR was one of his better films – but it ends up being a plea for unrestricted immigration rather than criticising US foreign policy. His star James Woods has been involved in much weirdness since (like in the OJ trial and regarding 9/11).
2) Stone produced a TV movie about the McMartin case (starring Woods again) which was all about ritual abuse being a ‘Satanic panic’. The very real evidence of real ritual abuse was downplayed or ignored.
3) His film ALEXANDER is full of esotericism and this time he cast the CFR’s very own Angelina Jolie.
4) He was set up to direct WORLD TRADE CENTER so it could be proclaimed, see this is so awful everyone’s on baord – even a readical like Stone.
5) Stone directed NATURAL BORN KILLERS. Apart from being written by the Freemason Quentin Tarantino this time Stone had Woody Harrelson as his lead. Did Stone not know about Harrelson’s father?
6) SNOWDEN was a set up to convince the gullible Left Snowden was a genuine whistleblower. He revealed nothing that wasn’t already known.
7) Stone did a similar job for Castro. Castro’s brother Raul is an admitted Freemason and Fidel supposedly hid out in a masonic lodge during the revolution. Look at Havana’s Freemasonic Lodge – it isn’t run down, let alone closed down. Cuba was a hot-bed of Theosophy which is a masonic off-shoot. Bay of Pigs failed because it was meant to and the Cuban Revolution both provided an enemy for the US to rally against and became a laboratory for certain Rockefeller social-engineering experiments (like “tiny living”).

Stone was educated at Yale and his son Sean is an admitted 32nd degree Freemason who pimps the UFO agenda.

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 3:38 PM
Reply to  Edwige

I’m no fan of Oliver Stone (or of anyone else); but I do find it just a bit peculiar the way so much of the “Alt Right” (apologies if you’re not of that school) relies on “guilt by association” for their arguments.

If a director is casting for Satan, and Bill Gates stumbles onto the casting couch – would you deny that he’s perfect for the part and a director would be a fool for not casting him?

rubberheid
rubberheid
Jul 26, 2021 6:29 PM
Reply to  Howard

gates ain’t no satan – he’s more like one of those black imps when revealed, as is it in tolstoy or dostoevski, try and flee the pitchfork? a significant imp admittedly in our time.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 10:50 AM
Reply to  Howard

Guilt by association is obviously irrational – but what on earth possesses you to claim it’s confined to that mythic entity the ‘alt right’?

Surely you can’t be unaware that guilt by association is the bedrock of cancel culture?

Irresponsible and proud
Irresponsible and proud
Jul 27, 2021 2:40 PM

But do you classify cancel culture as part of the left?

Joki
Joki
Jul 27, 2021 5:30 PM

“…possesses you to claim it’s confined to…”

Did he, though?

“…so much of the “Alt Right”… relies…”

 *edit/italics mine, obv.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 26, 2021 1:36 PM

Thinking of the slaughter of native peoples from California to the New York island can only make a US American deeply ashamed.

White supremacy rearing its ugly head. Why should anybody pay for the crimes – or feel guilty for the crimes – of someone else? I am not responsible for the actions of my father, neither the good or the bad. This is just emotional guff.

Ian
Ian
Jul 26, 2021 2:24 PM
Reply to  aspnaz

No, your right. History is something to review and learn from. You are only responsible for what you do now and that will define your and everyone else’s tomorrows.

Perhaps we cannot move mountains, but that doesn’t mean we have to repeat the crimes of the past or even passively stand by and watch new crimes being committed in our name using our resources.

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 3:14 PM
Reply to  aspnaz

Things that happened in the past that you are still reaping the benefit of (like genocide of Native Americans and slavery) present a rather slippery slope regarding personal innocence or culpability.

We are not personally responsible for dropping the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki or for poisoning the Marshall Islands with our bomb testing – but we continue to reap the benefit of living in an empire which still gathers the resources of other peoples to use for our exclusive benefit.

Bottom line: it isn’t merely a radical proposition that someone can bear some measure of guilt for actions committed by others; rather, there is at least some merit to the argument.

2fat2surf
2fat2surf
Jul 26, 2021 6:12 PM
Reply to  Howard

The average American does not benefit from this corrupt empire. We were lied into this Empire as a way to destroy our republic. And it’s worked just great.

Oh sure there are temporary advantages to having the petro dollar, but these benefits are nothing more than a way to drug Americans into thinking everything is going great. When all the while their country is being looted and their freedom is being forfeited.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 6:59 PM
Reply to  Howard

Bottom line: it isn’t merely a radical proposition that someone can bear some measure of guilt for actions committed by others; rather, there is at least some merit to the argument.”

I’m having difficulty translating that sentence as anything but circular reasoning:

i.e. They “can” bear “some measure of guilt” because there is “some merit to the argument” that it isn’t an entirely “radical proposition” that “they can” bear that guilt.

There isn’t actually an argument presented there that I can find. Above that sentence is the argument that since the present “reaps the benefit” of the past, that the present also “shares the guilt” of the past.

If that is true then the corollary is also true: the present “shares the innocence” of the past as well.

Or is one emotion somehow more easily shared (or desired?) than another?

And where will it end, all this sharing of past guilt? Is there a single person on Earth who does NOT share in all this guilt? Are there any innocents, at all, anywhere?

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 10:14 PM
Reply to  Joki

I do have a tendency to water down my conclusions so as not to present unpopular ideas in their strongest form to those who would rail against them.

What I should have said was, flat out, that all Americans share the collective guilt our nation has inured because of its past (and present) atrocities.

Indeed, if somebody could manage to find some past instance of innocence the US enjoys, that too would become all Americans’ collective innocence. But I’m not sure anyone has invented a knife that cuts reality that fine.

(BTW, I noticed in a separate post of yours that you reside in Maryland. So do I. But I’m looking for an escape route before the next lockdown hits.)

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 11:31 PM
Reply to  Howard

Greetings, fellow MDer! o/

What I should have said was, flat out, that all Americans share the collective guilt our nation has inured because of its past (and present) atrocities.”

Agree to disagree, then. It’s all good.

Invisible Man
Invisible Man
Jul 27, 2021 5:55 PM
Reply to  Howard

What I should have said was, flat out, that all Americans share the collective guilt our nation has inured because of its past (and present) atrocities.

Does than only apply to Americans, or does that apply to others as well? It seems only whites are expected to berate themselves, whereas non-whites are encouraged to indulge in a completely rosy and ahistorical, unfactual, benignant vision of their own past, with their own atrocities conveniently excised.

Invisible Man
Invisible Man
Jul 27, 2021 5:48 PM
Reply to  Howard

Things that happened in the past that you are still reaping the benefit of (like genocide of Native Americans and slavery) present a rather slippery slope regarding personal innocence or culpability.

Slavery was practiced by various peoples of all races for millennia. White men like William Wilberforce provided the intellectual argument for trying to abolishing it. Although it still exists everywhere in more disguised form, hence the terms wage slave and sweatshop labour.

Also, slavery as an institution was a southern phenomenon, the economy of the whole country was not built on it, and only a very small percentage even of southerners owned slaves. Then as now, selfish elites exploited others for power and profit. The notion that poor and oppressed whites share some collective guilt for the plight of poor and oppressed blacks is nonsense (and these notions are usually spouted by coddled, tenured, mediocre academics who have never known hardship themselves).

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 6:34 PM
Reply to  aspnaz

Why should anybody pay for the crimes – or feel guilty for the crimes – of someone else?”

They probably shouldn’t, because logically extended it would mean we must all feel ashamed or guilty, all the time. At that point we may as well all blame the Universe, and feel ashamed we were ever a part of it.

strange
strange
Jul 26, 2021 12:38 PM

“melancholic human misery, devoid of love, light, joy, certitude, or help for pain”

But it is worth it getting a mortgage from the bank, isn’t it?!

Pig Swill
Pig Swill
Jul 26, 2021 7:13 AM

Someone I used to look up to in all things global socio economic political affirms that all stances against Gov policy are Russian subversion. We should all check under out beds for Reds and relax…the Gov is in control. Stop being difficult. You’re being influenced by Russian subversion.

Pig Swill
Pig Swill
Jul 26, 2021 9:27 PM
Reply to  Pig Swill

Anyone have any comment on this?

Lizzyh7
Lizzyh7
Jul 27, 2021 10:56 PM
Reply to  Pig Swill

The comments write themselves. It is terribly sad to see someone you used to respect fall for the latest, or not so latest exactly, propaganda bullshit. Idiots blame the Russians, and I do feel for you having to deal with one. I had to for a while but since I am far too negative and critical and demand logical thought processes, my idiot and I no longer speak. Eventually that may happen to you too. While it is sad you will learn to live with it, quite happily most of the time, as you’ll no longer need to waste your effort on a willful moron.

Glenda
Glenda
Jul 26, 2021 6:39 AM

Beautiful, thank you. Your line, “gazed at the…….moon until I lose my senses” reminds me of the rest “DON’T FENCE ME IN!”

Tike
Tike
Jul 26, 2021 6:37 AM

Let’s talk Vietnam, shall we? Country Joe has some fitting words, from Woodstock:

Gimme an F…….. F
Gimme a U……….U
Gimme a C……….C
Gimme a K……….K

What’s that spell? FUCK!
What’s that spell? FUCK!
What’s that spell? FUCK!
What’s that spell? FUCK!
What’s that spell? FUCK!

And now, the Fog of War is clearer than ever.

Gulf Of Tonkin: McNamara Admits “It Didn’t Happen.”
https://www.metacafe.com/watch/787482/gulf_of_tonkin_mcnamara_admits_it_didnt_happen/

+ + +

I’m also trying to put all America behind, but I can’t. And Oliver Stone isn’t helping, sorry. Here we are facing the 20-year anniversary of that Big Lie, and Stone did nothing but indirectly support the official story with his film “World Trade Center.” Why exactly should we be giving that POS props for anything he says or does?

FUCK!

jimbo
jimbo
Jul 26, 2021 8:27 AM
Reply to  Tike

THANK YOU!!

from all us ptsd nam sirvivers

not long to go but

du wirst starksein.

shoot sherlock your faded

have a fizzer with a booster (boiler maker??)

HAAAAA!

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 8:28 AM
Reply to  Tike

Weinstein and Stone are buddies

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 8:48 AM
Reply to  Corarden

I fell for his schtick for many many years, it was more smoke and mirrors.

Ian
Ian
Jul 26, 2021 2:45 PM
Reply to  Tike

This whole idea of putting people on pedestals or pulling them down is a pointless exerciser. Neither they nor we are gods and lacking in perfection. Judgement is a weighty task that requires wisdom, inspiration, and a deep understanding of circumstance.

We can only take responsibility for our own present words and actions which inevitably dictate our own futures. Others with less knowledge of our minds may judge us but that is their choice. Meantime we must live with ourselves and others.

Wayne Vanderploeg
Wayne Vanderploeg
Jul 27, 2021 9:20 PM
Reply to  Tike

A number of years ago my wife (an English teach) and a colleague (a history teacher) team taught a unit on Vietnam. She asked me to make her a CD of protest songs. Eighth graders. I did and I put that one on it too. And she used it. Caught a little flack but it was too important not to use. We need to rediscover that emotional zone to fend off these nut cases trying to force us and our families to get vaccinated.

Ron
Ron
Jul 26, 2021 6:12 AM

JFK was murdered because he was trying to end the Cold War, eliminate nuclear weapons through negotiations with the Soviet Union, withdraw American military advisers from Vietnam, rein in the CIA, and reduce the power of the military-industrial complex.

Everyone likes to leave out the 900 lbs Gorilla in the room. You are forgetting that JFK demanded to inspect the Israeli nuclear facility at Dimona to make sure that the plant was “devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes.”
U.S. support for Israel would be “seriously jeopardized” if the U.S. could not get information on doings at the facility.

Peter
Peter
Jul 26, 2021 7:06 AM
Reply to  Ron

The late MC Piper’s seminal work Final Judgement makes a very strong case for this hypothesis.

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 8:24 AM
Reply to  Peter

And then on to the USS Liberty. Join the dots. And here we are.

Lysias
Lysias
Jul 26, 2021 6:51 PM
Reply to  Corarden

Here we are with a country that refuses to face the fact that for five years we had the criminal and traitor LBJ as president.

jimbo
jimbo
Jul 26, 2021 8:34 AM
Reply to  Ron

then there is “PINE GAP”

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 26, 2021 11:33 AM
Reply to  Ron

That’s a load of BS. There are no nuclear weapons. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were carpet-bombed and mustard gas was used to fake radiation symptoms.
https://www.henrymakow.com/2020/10/palmer-nuclear-attacks-on-japan.html

Mordechai Vanunu, the alleged nuclear power worker who leaked Israeli nuclear weapons secrets, is a complete psyop. Check out the Disclosure, Abduction and Publication section in his Wikipedia bio – it’s a hoot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu#Disclosure,_abduction_and_publication

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 2:52 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

While most of Japans cities were indeed fire bombed , Hiroshima and Nagasaki were left intact to make analysis of the nuclear bomb effects easier to diagnose . Comment like yours are embarrassing and detrimental to those working to bring into the light current conspiracies . There have been slightly over 8000 nuclear bomb tests , done by the 7 nuclear powers , most done by the US , the largest done by the USSR , 500 mega-tons , since Hiroshima . Probably one of the reasons for the under reported global cancer epidemics

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:55 PM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

I love how you are both smacking people with your totally data-free certitudes. You and Petra can’t both be right, but damn, your are both so CERTAIN! 🙂

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 9:17 PM

I simply quote stats that are readily accessible and generally accepted Petra appears to be a flamer , pulling her information out of her arse as required. Certainty is much more your bailiwick as an analysis of our posts would show?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 1:17 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

Jim, Please see my comment above and also look at info provided at Andrew’s link:
https://big-lies.org/nuke-lies/www.nukelies.com/forum/

They tell us all kinds of things, Jim, but so many are lies – you need to dig a little deeper. In the case of psyops though they ALWAYS give themselves away.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 28, 2021 4:11 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I don’t do links , they are almost always lazy attempts to support ones opinion . Enlisting supporters does not make a claim truth. Your nonsense on nukes to me betrays a very limited amount of experience as a check of current and pre 1940s background radiation levels would show ?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 28, 2021 6:11 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

OK, I will get more specific, however, it does involve looking at a video because the only way to verify what I say is by actually looking at visual evidence.

In this video, the YouTuber has taken footage of both Hiroshima and Tokyo after they were bombed and shows how their bombing profiles are extremely similar, that is, he points out how in both cities the fire-resistant items stood quite firm and the non-fire resistant items didn’t. If you’re willing to look at the video you can come back to me and give your opinion on whether you agree with the YouTuber’s conclusions about both cities being bombed using the same method.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 12:50 PM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

You have literally quoted no stats. None. Petra otoh has supplied at least some links

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 28, 2021 4:20 AM

Links are not stats just a tools used to bolster/legitimize an opinion . A basic form of pragmatism ? Although i do occasionally open some if the subject catches my interest . Several years ago when i first began to entertain myself on political comment sections , I offered links to back up my views and was informed that the link was also inaccurate or a lie , so why bother ?

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jul 28, 2021 4:56 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

We do ask that people provide links. It is courteous and helps to inform others and stimulate educated and informed debate. A2

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 1:13 AM

I’ve done significantly more research than is indicated by my links, Sophie. I’ve read Michael’s book that I link to in its entirety and I’ve looked at other info including:

— info at the link provided by Andrew below which I’d forgotten about

— This book: https://www.amazon.com.au/Death-Object-Exploding-Nuclear-Weapons/dp/1545516839

— a video that shows the images of Hiroshima and Tokyo and how similar the profiles of the cities are after bombing which I lost but found again thanks to revisiting Andrew’s link – thank you, Andrew!

— the Wikipedia bios of the alleged “assassinations” of Iranian nuclear scientists which have similar psyop characteristics to the Vanunu bio. Just searched on the relevant terms and found that, apparently, an Iranian nuclear scientist was gunned down by Mossad just in February – the number of Iranian nuclear scientists who have been “assassinated” – the mind boggles!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-scientist-idUSKBN2AA2RC

— the ludicrous “miracle survivor story” so typical of psyops that we see in Pearl Harbour, 9/11, Las Vegas shooting, COVID, etc

— other strange stories about survivors that don’t add up and have that typical psyop feel.

I can see I really need to assemble my own information although Andrew’s link probably provides a treasure trove of itself.

Sophie, as I’ve said in a previous comment I don’t think you really take on board the phenomenon of the psyop. About many other things I do not express certainty so easily but about psyops I do because their hallmarks are so utterly distinctive and they plaster their psyops with these characteristics, they don’t just give you one or two, they litter them.

I’m certain about psyops because they give themselves away at every turn whether or not the obvious lie of them is clear in the first place and I think not to be certain in the case of psyops is simply to be unscientific. If psyops ALWAYS display the same undermining characteristics then not to judge them as such is being unscientific.

It might seem as though I’m arrogant – I don’t see myself that way, how I see myself is as having 100% respect for the evidence, I put no store in my beliefs and opinions (why should anyone accept those?), I put all my faith in the evidence … which isn’t to say I believe you need loads and loads of evidence – you only need as much evidence as supports and favours your hypothesis over any other with no evidence to the contrary – that is all you need and the psyop MO never lets you down in your ability to get all the evidence you need without there being evidence to the contrary – which they could so easily plant convincingly but never do.

If you have any evidence for the existence of nuclear weapons please let me know what it is and if you don’t have any please tell me why anyone should believe in them?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 11:00 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Hun, I asked for evidence that nukes don’t work.

I didn’t ask for evidence that the Iranians were not assassinated or that Vanunu was suss or that the two 1945 bombs were fake. All of the above may well be true, I don’t rule it out, but none of it is evidence that nukes don’t work.

Hard, solid physics is what we need. Do you have any?

Thanks for the attempt to explain psyops to me, but there’s really no need. I know what psyops are. I would just like to see evidence that nukes are one of them

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 11:40 AM

I didn’t so much say they don’t work, Sophie, I simply said there weren’t nuclear weapons. If you have evidence of them please let me know what it is. You’re agreed that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were fire-bombed as the other cities were or you question that?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 12:00 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Ok, thanks for the clarification. But if they DO work why would the PTB not build them? If you have a nuke you have total supremacy over everyone who doesn’t. Why would the psychopaths in charge refrain from this huge opportunity?

Aren’t the raised global levels of certain fission products – eg carbon 14 – not quite good evidence that nukes have been built and tested?

I am actually finding this discussion interesting and am totally agnostic atm

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 12:31 PM

To my mind, Sophie, nuclear bombs – if they were to exist -wouldn’t be the ideal weapon, I’d imagine there are better weapons but I’m not up on arms so I don’t know. Also, I think at the top they’re all in it together which explains psyops such as Iranian nuclear scientists being “assassinated” by Mossad and Mordechai Vanunu allegedly being a leaker of nuclear weapons secrets. Both Iran and Israel (and all the other cognoscenti in high places) know the alleged assassinations and “leaking” are psyops thus some kind of collusion is going on. People who collude in this manner wouldn’t want to nuke each other I don’t think.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 28, 2021 6:22 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Ok, but, with respect, you’re getting away from the question.

When we started this discussion you said ‘nukes don’t exist’. You didn’t say ‘I don’t believe nukes exist’, or ‘it’s theoretically possible nukes don’t exist.’ You said ‘nukes don’t exist‘, as if you had conclusive proof.

But what you have presented so far is

*circumstantial evidence the 1945 weapons may not have been nukes – which is quite plausible because the Manhattan project was on a tight schedule and they might not have produced a bomb in time. But not proof that nukes don’t exist

*circumstantial evidence some earlier nuclear test pics are faked. – again plausible for all sorts of reasons. But not proof that nukes don’t exist

Against that we have the simple fact that global radiation levels and fission products increased during the time that nuclear weapons were allegedly being tested. This is confirmed by hundreds of independent readings.

So, the first hurdle for someone claiming nukes don’t exist is to find another explanation for this fact. So far, not only have you not done this you’ve uncharacteristically ignored the question completely.

Can we focus on this please, because it’s so basic that if it can’t be answered the rest of the claim is irrelevant. So –

How do those claiming ‘nuclear weapons don’t exist’ explain the global increase of radiation and fission products since 1945?

Do you have anything on that?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 28, 2021 7:57 AM

You say, Sophie, that you know what psyops are, however, what you never seem to do is indicate you recognise the psyop signs of events.

What we see with Hiroshima and Nagasaki are a number of psyop clues such as the ludicrous “miracle survivor story” and the names of the bombs, Fat Man and Little Boy, the naming of one of the alleged bombing planes, Enola Gay, after one pilot’s mother, and Bockscar, after the to-be-but-replaced pilot of the other plane, the fact that the Nagasaki bombing plane’s number was 77 just like Flight 77 on 9/11 – loads of little details like that. I forgot about the just-mentioned details in this latest foray on nuclear weapons but I’ve certainly mentioned them in the past. Similarly, with Vanunu and the alleged “assassinations” of a number of alleged Iranian nuclear scientists we see clear signs of psyop. I’m just pointing this out because I think it’s good to point out psyop signs wherever they’re seen.

We know in relation to nuclear weapons they have told loads and loads and loads of lies so if we are to believe that they do, in fact, exist then we need solid evidence. In a situation where loads and loads of lies have been told then the shoe really moves to the other foot, the foot of the defender of the existence of nuclear weapons. When there is very clear evidence of lying and no clear evidence of the existence of nuclear weapons I see no reason to believe in them at all.

Against that we have the simple fact that global radiation levels and fission products increased during the time that nuclear weapons were allegedly being tested. This is confirmed by hundreds of independent readings.

I cannot explain the alleged increase of radiation levels and fission products but the existence of operable nuclear weapons doesn’t automatically explain them in my opinion – was this increase temporary? If so, wouldn’t that indicate certain testing may have been conducted but it went no further? Seemingly, no nuclear testing has been done over more recent times and my belief is that they wouldn’t be using old nukes so even if in theory nuclear weapons exist can we say they exist practically? I say no, Sophie, but you can disagree. It would require research on my part to determine whether the reported increased levels are genuine, where and when they allegedly occurred and what other causes are possible and I’m not inclined to do that. If you are and find they lead you to believe in the existence of nuclear weapons regardless of the fakery every which way you look, I’m all ears.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 28, 2021 10:17 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Can we put the 1945 nuke question aside for now? I’ve already said your claim about that is plausible as far as it goes. No need to keep hammering at it, or to bring in generalities about psyops. I get all that, really!

But you can’t claim some dodgy photos from the 1940s-50s prove nukes are not real. The evidence is suggestive but it’s not good enough for proof.

Re. The all-important global increase in radiation/fission-products, I highly recommend you do look into it as it’s key to the question.

The increase in fission products is global in some cases, local to (alleged) test sites in others. One side-effect has been to mess with carbon-14 dating as the nuclear tests (or something else?) increased atmospheric levels of C14 everywhere.

I’m not an expert so it might be there are other potential explanations for these increases beyond nuclear explosions. If there are, well, the question is blown wide open and nukes really might not be real!

I think it’s def worth researching as it’s pretty much the definitive make or break issue.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 28, 2021 11:13 AM

Just to say I don’t just mention 1945 Japan, do I? The psyops that are the alleged leaker of nuclear weapons secrets, Mordechai Vanunu, and the assassinations of the alleged Iranian nuclear scientists are also highly significant and they’re current. Only in February was there an article stating “The Iranian nuclear scientist assassinated near Tehran in November was killed by a one-ton gun smuggled into Iran in pieces by the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad …” It’s ludicrous OK? It’s psyop right in our faces … which is what psyops always are … right in our faces.

Do you think because these psyops don’t directly speak about the physics of nuclear weapons they don’t mean something? They mean a lot. Who has nuclear weapons? If anyone would have them wouldn’t Israel? But surely the psyop that is Vanunu means they don’t. Or do you think the psyop that is Vanunu AND having nuclear weapons is possible.

Please tell me who you think has nuclear weapons. North Korea?

You keep saying you get psyops but you do not acknowledge their significance. You simply do not. You say you get psyops but I see no evidence of it.

As far as I’m concerned, Sophie, nuclear weapons don’t exist. If someone presents me with evidence that they do I’ll accept it but I simply see no reason to believe even in the possibility of them until that time. I’d never heard of the increase in radiation/fission products until you mentioned them. If you or someone else thinks they’re worth investigating go for it but I won’t be. I seem to remember on reading the book Death Object that the author made a very good case for the impossibility of nuclear weapons. I have to say the whole idea of a nuclear bomb just seems stupid to me – not that that would stop them from being developed. I think there was just craziness going on at the time. The fact that North Korea and nuclear weapons are mentioned in the same breath underlines to me how ridiculous they are. To me, they’re just another fearmongering weapon in their vast arsenal of psyops against us. https://www.amazon.com.au/Death-Object-Exploding-Nuclear-Weapons/dp/1545516839

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 28, 2021 2:22 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

That’s disappointing. I thought we were having an interesting open discussion, but suddenly you say ‘this is what I believe and I’m not interested in finding additional information ‘ and just close all the doors.

You won’t even Google anything about atmospheric contamination due to bomb testing?

I thought you were all about going where the evidence leads you?

I for one am genuinely interested in whether a watertight case can be made for ‘no nukes’. It’s very interesting. I’d love to know if the increased fission products can be explained by something else. I assumed you were open-mindedly interested too.

Quite sad about that. 😔

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 28, 2021 3:48 PM

Sophie, I’m perfectly open to receiving information, very open to that. So if you can provide me with clear evidence that nuclear weapons exist via atmospheric contamination statistics or whatever other information I’m very open to looking at that presentation. The thing is if there’s only information on atmospheric contamination how would you work out the existence of nuclear weapons from that anyway? I need more incentive to look because a priori I can’t see a connection between atmospheric contamination and nuclear weapons directly that looks like a dead-end. You’re the one who seems to know something about this area so why not make a case for a connection between atmospheric contamination (and whatever other information you have) and nuclear weapons.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 29, 2021 10:50 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

What sort of researcher waits to be given information?

It seems astonishing you actually didn’t know about nuclear fallout. I thought it was common knowledge, because that’s the stuff that makes nukes so dangerous. But, ok, you didn’t know before, but now you do – so surely you want to go check it out?

The thing is if there’s only information on atmospheric contamination how would you work out the existence of nuclear weapons from that anyway

Because people know from experiment what elements and isotopes are produced when nuclear fission occurs, and a lot of nuclear fission happens when a nuke goes off, leaving telltale signatures.

This is the official story anyhow. So to debunk it there needs to be another explanation for these fission products, some of which are still detectable today (eg increased carbon 14).

It’s the most crucial question to be answered if a plausible case for no nukes to be made. – if no nukes where did those alleged fission products come from?

Read up about it.

How can you find the truth if you just make up your mind at some point and then stop looking, even when you are told about important new facts?

Lysias
Lysias
Jul 26, 2021 6:56 PM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

So what’s the physical explanation for the mushroom clouds?

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 7:51 PM
Reply to  Lysias

Mushroom clouds are not exclusive to any particular type of bomb. Any large explosion can create one under the right conditions.

Which means, incidentally, that the photographic/video evidence of all those alleged nuke tests don’t prove that nukes were the cause of the mushroom clouds depicted in them. They could have been caused by a sufficiently large conventional explosion, or they could instead be magnifications of smaller explosions.

Ort
Ort
Jul 26, 2021 9:00 PM
Reply to  Lysias

Why, obviously they just blew up a barrel of mushrooms!

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 10:18 PM
Reply to  Ort

Occam’s Razor always wins the argument.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 28, 2021 4:22 AM
Reply to  Lysias

Look it up ! There are thousands of pages of material on the web explaining nuclear physics!

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jul 28, 2021 5:03 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

There are also lots saying how dangerous covid is. I’m not weighing in on the argument, but simply pointing to the internet can be a little bit of a cop out, and doesn’t further a good-faith debate. A2

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 27, 2021 9:23 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

Mini-nukes are in routine usage. Recent victims include Yemen and Lebanon.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 11:00 AM
Reply to  mgeo

Sigh…evidence?

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 27, 2021 11:36 AM

Try looking for it, and get back. Better yet, don’t get back.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 12:15 PM
Reply to  mgeo

That’s not how it works. If YOU make a claim of fact then YOU need to substantiate it with data. We have evidential standards here. Such hostility to a simple request is very telling.

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 28, 2021 8:39 AM

Practically every comment makes claims in every para. What set you off?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 28, 2021 10:26 AM
Reply to  mgeo

We constantly urge people to provide sources for claims of fact. I don’t understand why you don’t just post your source. You must have obtained the info from somewhere, so just post a link or cite a printed source – book, article, academic paper, govt report… it’s not hard to do unless you don’t have a source! 🤷‍♀️

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:52 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Bit of a leap? From ‘they didn’t use nukes in1945’ to ‘there are no nukes’?

I mean you can imagine they might not have been able to perfect the bomb on that short a time frame in 1945, but that’s a long way from concluding the technology doesn’t exist.

What’s the evidential basis?

Ort
Ort
Jul 27, 2021 12:56 AM

FWIW, this video has been on YouTube for years.

Naturally, I armor myself with the disclaimer that I have investigated neither the content nor the maker, and thus am ignorant of any damning information that impeaches it. You know… controlled opposition and such.



Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 2:02 AM

See my other comment to you, Sophie.

Andrew Byrt
Andrew Byrt
Jul 26, 2021 5:20 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Hi Petra. Just in case this is news to you.
https://big-lies.org/nuke-lies/www.nukelies.com/forum/

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 1:19 AM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

Thank you so very much for that link, Andrew. I had seen it but completely forgot about it. I remember seeing the video “A tale of two cities” comparing the profiles of Tokyo and Hiroshima after bombing but I couldn’t find it again and didn’t remember that I’d first come across it at the site you link to.

Thank you so very much. Won’t be forgetting it again.

Andrew Byrt
Andrew Byrt
Jul 27, 2021 10:11 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

No problem Petra. Presumably you’re familiar with Rae West’s main site too? If one puts aside his, let`s say colourful slant on the you know whos / Phoenician Navy etc then there is much to be gleaned from his efforts.
Highlights for me are works of Harold Hillman on cell biology and also the importance of sodium chloride for the production of HCl in the stomach. Btw Rae regards this site as expensive junk so I feel doubly happy to promote his work here!

https://www.big-lies.org/index.html

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 11:17 AM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

Omg – this one is even worse! Vintage 2003 1997 html! Almost impossible to read without getting a migraine.

It also blames literally everything on the Jews, which is maybe a little bit reductionist?

is this honestly the best there is on this subject? Because this looks quite a lot like it might be run out of Langley to make conspiracy theorists look like loons 😉

Seriously – what is the ‘no nuke’ hypothesis? Is it presented scientifically anywhere?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 12:01 PM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

I wasn’t familiar with Rae West’s main site – I see he has a page on big-lies but are you referring to another website?
https://www.big-lies.org/metapedia-entry-rerevisionist.html

Andrew Byrt
Andrew Byrt
Jul 27, 2021 12:21 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

To clarify. Rae West`s site is big-lies.org. Forget the /metapedia part.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 1:43 PM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

OK, Thanks, Andrew.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 11:05 AM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

Ok, first reaction – that website layout doesn’t inspire confidence! It’s one of those early 2000s jobs that often had flashing multicolored links and wall-2-wall bold script and talked about aliens a lot. You know what I mean? My brother was all over them when we were kids.

But I won’t let it deter. I’ll dutifully read what they have to say. 😉

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 11:10 AM
Reply to  Andrew Byrt

Uh-oh – “JEWS, GENES, NUKES, WHITES”. Not looking so good at this stage.

Are there any scientific sites that use scientific analysis? I’m not sure I have the strength to trawl through all that dodgy rambling looking for solid data.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 11:43 AM
Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 12:10 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Appreciate that P. I haven’t watched the vids yet (busy!), but I will. Correct me if I’m wrong but this page is exclusively about the two 1945 bombs, which is interesting, but not what I asked for.

What we need is a scientific argument for nukes never having been built or tested. Do you know of one?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 1:34 PM

Miles Mathis analyses Bikini Atoll and says that the “stem” of the explosion looks like a cat’s scratching post – and it does!
http://mileswmathis.com/bikini.pdf

Here’s MM on Trinity, allegedly the first detonation of a nuclear bomb.
http://mileswmathis.com/trinity.pdf

If you go here you’ll find quite a lot of other stuff:
https://peekier.com/#!nuclear+hoax

I remember looking at a video about an alleged nuclear test where the YouTuber pointed out that after the explosion the clouds that the explosion seemingly passed through didn’t change at all, indicating video fakery but can’t find that video now.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 27, 2021 2:55 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Ok it’s valid observationally about specific instances of allegedly faked photos, but it’s not really evidence we don’t have nukes or that all the hundreds of tests were faked or made up.

What about the increased levels of fission products in the air and soil since nuclear testing allegedly began? What can explain that if not nuclear weapons being detonated?

Andrew Byrt
Andrew Byrt
Jul 27, 2021 11:48 AM

Hi Sophie. I agree it`s not the slickest of formats but baby/ bathwater and all that! Have you tried tiger balm on the temples? Safer than ibuprofen. Bon voyage.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 2:41 PM
Reply to  Ron

JFK had allegedly been caught in an East German honey-pot operation . That it was getting little traction among the elites caused CIA to go to “plan” B an explosive bullet to the brain , not fired by
the CIA contractor Lee Oswald the self proclaimed “patsy” ?

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 27, 2021 6:56 AM
Reply to  Ron

I doubt Kennedy was trying to end the cold war… while capitalism has its flaws… to say the least… communism is an unnatural, evil system that goes against human nature – we are competitive animals… like all organisms.

The reason communists have to be so oppressive is because that is what is required when you try to defeat human nature. We also see human nature on display in communist parties as the members are more equal than the proletariat… of course!

If Kennedy was trying to make peace with the Soviets then he most definitely needed to be removed. The only good communist is of course – a dead communist.

I suspect this is a more likely reason for his departure from this world… he was dead within months of vetoing this plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

And people insist the US government would never foist a 911 on the people 🙂

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 5:17 AM

Back before The Guardian newspaper went fully over to The Dark Side it published a story about the plight of those Israelis dependent on fixed state pensions which, coupled with rampant food price inflation, threatened their health.
The article revealed how mothers and housewives banded together to go shopping in supermarkets and, once everyones’ cart was full, all raced for the exits, out to their cars, and off home with the goodies. As there were few store security staff, usually only one of the women was detained, and subsequently fined. The food was divvied out among all, including the one who didnt make it..
Such tales dont grace its pages any more. “Dont want to give people ideas !” ?

Peter
Peter
Jul 26, 2021 7:07 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

The Palestinians in general don’t own cars.

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
Jul 26, 2021 4:25 AM

Off-topic but important:

WHO officially talks about human genome editing – turning us into GMOs – all for our benefit, of course.

https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2021-who-issues-new-recommendations-on-human-genome-editing-for-the-advancement-of-public-health

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 26, 2021 5:00 AM
Reply to  Veri Tas

It’s not ‘important’.
It’s screechingly nightmarish.

The ‘despicable men’ mentioned in this article are still tolerated by this thing which presumes to call itself, “society”, and they have become even more emboldened by that tolerance.

Unfettered hubris always goes over the top sooner or later, and it ends in violence and horror. Quite predictable, but people think everything will somehow be okay if they just don’t think about it.

It is never okay when you don’t think.
The World Health Organization must be made to think, or resign and give way to another organization that will think.

No virus could have caused what is going on right now.
Men have done it, and they need to be called to account for it.

TonyMaroni
TonyMaroni
Jul 26, 2021 6:28 AM
Reply to  wardropper

No virus could have caused what is going on right now.

Men have done it, and they need to be called to account for it.

They are being protected at all levels. Since the media has been bought and the plan for corporate gangster rule is now in full swing I find it highly unlikely those that have planned and carried out this attack will ever be brought to justice.

Ian
Ian
Jul 26, 2021 3:13 PM
Reply to  TonyMaroni

Your right only in as much as the “plandemic” is deeper, broader, and wider, older in intent and philosophy than most people can even imagine, in short, its the biggest con of all time and will define the future of humanity.

No one can face the power of the barrage of institutions, corporations, organizations, and governments that have been co opted. But, as the truth is being reveled around the world a ground swell of awareness, disdain and anger is spreading as the face of evil is unmasked.

All rule is by active or passive consent. As time and events move forward that consent is being eroded. This is not the time to predict the downfall of justice, nor is it the time for the mob to loose control, but it is the time to join together, protect our brothers, sisters and children, and ensure that out of this criminal tyranny comes a fair and just future.

TonyMaroni
TonyMaroni
Jul 26, 2021 8:25 PM
Reply to  Ian

+10
But All I’m seeing are the walking dead. Brainwashed by the narrative while gleefully expressing the return to normal. Little do they know what awaits them.

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
Jul 27, 2021 12:18 AM
Reply to  wardropper

I think we could safely scrap the WHO altogether. We do not need a global organisation presiding over humanity’s health – which it does not anyhow… It’s an entirely corrupted, bought-and-paid-for shill.

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 8:23 AM
Reply to  Veri Tas

I have absolute faith in the WHO, I am sure it is all for our benefit. Their actions over the last two years of my life, stolen from me, but for my benefit and everyone else’s of course, proves it. The fact they want to enhance humans to enhance athletic performance sounds super. And targeting Africans again for experimentation to deal with that nasty sickle cell disease all sounds so nice and kind of them.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 6:24 PM
Reply to  Veri Tas

At Rockefeller U. there’s a lot of Science being done these days. Nifty stuff like the biological switches they’re studying which allow them to literally turn a poor mouse’s hunger on and off at will.

Remotely. With magnets. No, I’m not kidding.

https://seek.rockefeller.edu/flipping-a-switch-inside-the-head/

Poor mousey.

There’s a different switch to turn off the ability to recognize others:

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/30666-scientists-discover-new-class-neurons-remembering-faces/

I find myself reaching for my tinfoil hat, because that whole “5G”/Dread Virus thing is starting to sound like it may not be so far-fetched after all. Suddenly I’m feeling dizzy, trying to reconcile all the above with other things like “magnet arms” and SPIONS and graphene this and nano-particles that.

Then I remind myself that I’m just an armchair-quarterbacking conspiracy theorist engaged in rampant speculation with little to no basis in reality, and all is well once more.

Howard
Howard
Jul 26, 2021 10:21 PM
Reply to  Joki

The trouble with bases in reality is that by the time they are recognized, the damage is already done and generally cannot be undone.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 11:35 PM
Reply to  Howard

Yes. I’ve decided to go ahead and part ways with reality. I prefer being crazy. It’s a lot of weight off my shoulders. Life is easier when I can just say “Ah, that’s right: I’m insane. Well that’s alright then” and carry on regardless.

Veri Tas
Veri Tas
Jul 27, 2021 12:21 AM
Reply to  Joki

I’m sure they’ve already flipped the switch for the majority for not being able to see or sense that the current narrative is a lie. It’s all their vaccinations and medications with their cumulative dumbing down effect.

Irresponsible and proud
Irresponsible and proud
Jul 29, 2021 3:39 PM
Reply to  Veri Tas

Off topic????? This IS the topic my good man/woman! Apparebtly, human nature proves a hindrance to the pace of technological progress!!!! I am sharing this.

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 4:21 AM

Round two of The States Concern For Your Health:
According to experts “poor diets contribute to around 64,000 deaths in England every year,” and the government spends 18 billion pounds a year treating obesity-related conditions.”
Its suggested that a “minister for hunger” be in charge of coordinating mass media psychological operation to influence eaters to change their diets…
Sounds like a good idea – were it not a project that will be hijacked by those, like Bill Gates, and politicians with toxic born-to-rule complexes.

https:/the conversation.com/what-is-the-national-food-strategy-and-and-how-could-it-change-the-way-england-eats-164410

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 5:00 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

Keep in mind: “The World Economic Forum (WEF). The Great Reset plan includes a complete transformation of the global food and agricultural industries and The dieting of humans. The architects behind the plan are preparing for a meatless society and the introduction of cell-based, laughter-free meat.”

https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/real-food-truths-grass-fed-beef-is-carbon-negative-and-healthy-for-the-environment

Catastrophism: The Apocalyptic Politics of Collapse and Rebirth, by Sasha Lilley, McNally et al. It’s not just ‘the left’ who expect the masses to rise-up only when things become no longer tolerable, when they’ve been screwed down and pauperised.

Edith
Edith
Jul 26, 2021 5:09 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

Meat will be a very small part….it isn’t what causes obesity…

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 5:49 AM
Reply to  Edith

Tackling Obesity provides the spin used to ‘sell’ the idea. Most taken in by the spin never seem to realise that any legislation to do with “diet” affects everyone, fat, obese, or thin.
It’s been pointed out that the Australian government intends imposing “Income Management” on all who are reliant on government payments, whether the dole or age pension. The scheme will be used to control what recipients can or cant eat, and The Nanny state will claim it’s being “done in your best interests”.
St Bill Gates love of juicy, grass-fed T-bone steaks wont be affected (“No genetic modified or vat-groan foods for Our Bill !”).

jimbo
jimbo
Jul 26, 2021 8:39 AM
Reply to  Edith

SUGAR WHITE FLOUR TV CHAIRS INDOCTRINATION MOTOR VEHICLES ALCOHOL . . . .

“A person who stands for nothing will fall for anything.”

El Hagg Malik El Shabazz

AKA: Malcom X

Glenda
Glenda
Jul 26, 2021 6:53 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

My understanding is that the plan is for everyone to wear, or have injected, technology which will identify any problems in the body before they arise. So I imagine that if an individual’s blood sugar level is getting too high, if their weight is increasing above the accepted limit, they will be instructed to take x drug or y drug to correct the problem. Nothing to do with the actual food we ingest. When you consider that the vast majority of doctors have virtually no nutritional training, only training in what drugs will alleviate symptoms, there’s probably no reason why some AI couldn’t do the same job. So the brainwashing of the masses into accepting this experimental gene therapy and the subsequent establishment of a digital record of every human being is the beginning of this move to digital public health. The red pill, the blue pill, or the white pill?

Peter
Peter
Jul 26, 2021 7:10 AM
Reply to  Glenda

The plan is depopulation. I don’t think at this stage they are too worried about human health.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:12 PM
Reply to  Peter

I agree that there are several competing plans afoot to depopulate in a somewhat orderly fashion , being set in motion by our elites to save themselves . Forced vaccinations , may be one of them. However depopulation has already begun haphazardly across the planet as the statistics show .The four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have already begun to cut a deep swath through humanity . The randomness of their carnage is what frightens and spurs our elites on in their attempts to become transhuman using the principles of materialism as their guide ?

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 7:16 AM
Reply to  Glenda

And who’s to decide what’s NORMAL ? Alice asked Humpty Dumpty.
Last night read “Are Blood Tests Still Valid ?” by Dr Patrick Quanten (in NEXUS magazine April-May 2021). Most of what i thought i knew (lfrom ‘passive learning’) has been challenged the past 18 months. But i dont feel anxious, only concerned that the Bill Gates pharmaceutical juggernaut will, if it succeeds, delete everything that challenges its ‘medical science’ monopoly.

gabriel
gabriel
Jul 26, 2021 1:53 PM
Reply to  Glenda

Looking at how awful performed most of the bipeds pretending to be “doctors” (they have a piece of paper to show, so they must be) from top to bottom, I suspect we would be better off with a decently programmed AI. But we all know TPTB will steer it the “correct” direction, of course.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 2:59 PM
Reply to  Glenda

If you own a device with an Internet connection you are already well on your way to future you describe ?

TonyMaroni
TonyMaroni
Jul 26, 2021 8:31 PM
Reply to  Glenda

My understanding is that the plan is for everyone to wear, or have injected, technology which will identify any problems in the body before they arise.

That’s too late for many who have been posioned and polluted death just enrich a few who now claim to be the saviour of mankind.

Edith
Edith
Jul 26, 2021 5:08 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

Yep been telling people this is the next logical step in this game…already mentioned by the Russian banker at the tech meeting….just watch the pro vax mob scream when they are told they will be limited on what they can eat from now on…or will need to take xyz vax to stop them eating….

Edwige
Edwige
Jul 26, 2021 10:03 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

It is of course entirely possible to lack vital nutrients and not feel “hunger”. They’ve been trying to make the two synonymous forever.

They want give rivers rights so there goes supplementing the meagre plant-based diet with a few fish. This is coming from the same people who put over 1bn used facemasks in the ocean, they care so much.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 2:56 PM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

The 64000 poor diet deaths number seems low ? perhaps PCR testing could help raise the number of cases ?

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 27, 2021 9:40 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

Some workers face frequent testing. The swabs are sure to injure some of them eventially. This is apart from “positives” getting quarantined/warded with genuinely sick people.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 6:14 PM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

Wouldn’t Orwellian Logic dictate that any so-called Ministry of Hunger must, in reality, be tasked with overseeing the starvation of the populace?

Why do I get the feeling Charlton Heston is prepping for his big scene? “It’s people! It’s peooooplllle…!”

Researcher
Researcher
Jul 26, 2021 3:42 AM
Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 26, 2021 2:42 AM

I wonder if Stone’s new documentary shows that the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald was obviously faked as there is no still from the alleged live shooting on TV that matches the famous photo. And will Stone comment on the ludicrous choice of a Carcano for the crackshot assassination. Why oh why oh why does no one ever point out how they rub their psyops in our faces?

https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/lho-shot-tvphoto-comparison.html

https://www.quora.com/Could-Oswald-fire-3-shots-in-5-6-seconds-using-the-Carcano-bolt-action-rifle-from-the-sixth-floor-of-the-Texas-School-Book-Depository/answer/Joseph-Mosser

Of course, there are those who say JFK’s killing was faked but I can’t come at that … at least not yet.
https://www.academia.edu/14445007/The_JFK_Assassination_A_Manufactured_non_Event_by_Miles_W_Mathis

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jul 26, 2021 3:07 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

But the LEM being held together with scotch tape, that wasn’t a psyop being rubbed in our face, that was special NASA scotch tape. A2

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 26, 2021 3:39 AM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

Oh dear, Sam. Went through all this on Edward’s last article. I’m sure he doesn’t want his article comments taken over by moon hoax stuff yet again. Give the guy a break.
https://off-guardian.org/2021/07/11/drinking-coffee-in-the-early-morning-rain-and-thinking-of-donald-rumsfeld/

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 6:21 AM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

My favorite is how the Ektachrome film is perfectly preserved and exposed in extreme hot and cold environments , amazing film.
Also love the perfectly framed and focused ” belly shots” from the photographer, what amazing talent!!
Lastly, Ektachrome notoriously unforgiving for high contrast shadow fall off, in the Apollo images, perfectly even exposures , stunning photography 🙂

Impossible on earth, but perfectly possible on the Moon!

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 26, 2021 2:26 PM
Reply to  Marcello

Crazy too that the astronauts couldn’t see stars from the moon, according to their photos anyway.

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 3:22 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

Yes and the Chinese finally answered that enigma a few years ago in Dec of 2018

1) yes you CAN see the stars from the moon
2) zero evidence of American landings

Ginghiniagenie
Ginghiniagenie
Jul 26, 2021 4:29 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

The conspicuous absence of stars in the photos supposedly taken on the moon is apparently due to a “trick of the camera lens”, if you believe the debunkers:

https://astronomy.com/magazine/ask-astro/2019/07/why-do-pictures-of-earth-taken-from-the-moon-show-a-black-sky-with-no-stars-can-the-stars-only-be-seen-with-an-atmosphere

But in a sombre (guilt-ridden? hungover?) press conference a few weeks after their triumphant “return”, Michael Collins claimed not to have seen any stars whilst orbiting the moon, nor on the “journey” there and back:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/1298734/moon-landing-michael-collins-neil-armstrong-buzz-aldrin-apollo-11-nasa-stars-space-spt/

Interview footage, 44:24

https://youtu.be/XeAGGpRYmKY

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:34 PM
Reply to  Ginghiniagenie

There’s nothing strange about the absence of stars in the pics of the astronauts. The exposure required for the astronauts would mean the stars were not visible. What does seem a bit odd is that they didn’t take any photos just of the stars. Or take a telescope up there instead of a moon buggy and golf clubs

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 4:49 PM

Hmm, never thought of it that way.
It could have been set up somewhere on the LEM module, sort of like the first Hubble

Anyhow, the issue for me was I was waiting for the Chinese rover to send back images, and voila, indeed you can see stars from the moon, except of course the camera used was digital

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 4:28 AM
Reply to  Marcello

How much research do you do, Marcello? Do you look up every question you have to see if there’s a response? I just put your question about Ektachrome into search and came up with this. Have you seen it? If so, you give no hint of it either to refute or accept it.

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/87818/can-70-mm-kodak-ektachrome-film-survive-in-200-to-200-degrees-celsius-392-to

I will admit to being a lazy researcher but moon hoaxers are on another level.

For alleged “fall off” see
https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/i1rkbp/debunking_american_moon_part_2/gai9cks/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

This is the last comment I’m making on the moon landings on this article.

Jeff Carmack
Jeff Carmack
Jul 26, 2021 2:14 AM

Sorry but why isn’t Oliver Stone interested in Epstein?

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 26, 2021 5:05 AM
Reply to  Jeff Carmack

Same reason he isn’t interested in 99% of the people on this planet?
Life’s too short to cover everything.
I’m not interested in Epstein either.
I’m interested in what is wrecking our lives right now.

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 9:24 AM
Reply to  wardropper

The Epstein thing was blowing up when this shitshow started – timing is everything

Seansaighdeor
Seansaighdeor
Jul 26, 2021 2:51 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Cover everthing? Epstein is a huge story tying child trafficking, Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, Rothschild, the Royal Family, the mob, the Jewish mob and elite, blackmail using honeypots of under age lolitas to control and manipulate politicians, business men and anyone wanting to get ‘on the ladder’, as well as occult ritual, freemasonry satanism and so on and on.

To NOT be interested in that is to not really care about how the world really works or how any of the recent shit show has been allowed to carry on unabated.

It is probably THE story.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:19 PM
Reply to  Jeff Carmack

Sex scandals are dime a dozen among global elites . And since we have entered , following the Chinese , into ” The Age of the Eunuch ” first predicted , though not intentionally by Germaine Greer some decades ago a sin that is losing its cachet these days ?

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 2:11 AM

The Nanny state government of NSW has reacted hysterically to thousands of citizens defying Nanny Glady by protesting on Saturday her destruction of their jobs and businesses with lockdowns. In a tantrum a senior police officer has asked the Compliant Ones to become dobbers, help track down the disobedient children so they can be punished. New South Wales is not only a Nanny State (“Our Glad knows what’s best for you”) – but the extremist cabal in charge have toxic born-to-rule complexes.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 26, 2021 2:36 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

It’s ludicrous though because the whole thing must have been authorised. They half-blocked George St from Victoria Park to Town Hall (2km of main thoroughfare) – protesters can’t do that by themselves. I was completely amazed. I wasn’t going to go because I thought there would just be a few of us playing hide-and-seek with the police but because my neighbour said she was going I thought I may as well. Could not believe the number of people. It was simply astounding. I saw zero hassle from police and we got lots of toots from those in cars.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 26, 2021 4:18 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“Find out the Gestapo SOB’s home addresses and enmasse go over and let their family know about their unsavory Nazi like behavior. Give them something else about which to ponder.”

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 4:42 AM
Reply to  S Cooper

Protesters in Hong Kong posted photos, names, etc of those violently attacking their rallies .. The state realised a vulnerability so labeled those
posting as “Terrorists”.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 26, 2021 5:03 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

“The Corporate Fascist State is terrorist. Fighting it is anti-terrorist.”
comment image
comment image

Jubal Hershaw
Jubal Hershaw
Jul 26, 2021 5:28 AM
Reply to  S Cooper

You might recall that US legislation defining “terrorist” was repeatedly rejected until they could come up with a definition that didnt apply to the US government.
In Australia, back in the 1970s, the troika (The Bosses-Mass Media-Government) always claimed there was a “small group of extremists” behind every strike, who were out to “destroy the economy” ! Who’d a thought they’d live to see the day when an extremist minority in government would do its best to destroy the economy?

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:23 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“Singing songs and carrying signs , mostly say hooray for our side” , done to death with little effect since 1965 when Buffalo Springfield noticed and offered those lyrics.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 27, 2021 4:19 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

So interesting that those lyrics were written back in 1965, Jim. I certainly was expecting no effect – in fact, the quite negative response surprised me, I simply wasn’t expecting a response of any kind. A friend told me she was “disappointed” and that it was “selfish of us” and that she agreed with a FB post opining that empathy would have been felt if we’d worn masks – hilarious!. As if we were going to wear masks! What a hoot!
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/send-the-marching-sookies-off-to-scrub-hospital-floors-20210726-p58cve.html

My friend and I had agreed to go for a walk this week but it seems I need to self-isolate for two weeks now before she’ll see me now because it’s “too risky”. I’m just staggered – she knows I have zero belief in the virus. I told her it didn’t even cross my mind that I was at a “superspreader event” and might become a danger to society and she responded in a derisive way that that’s, of course, what she would expect of my thinking. Huh? Of course. It’s like while I take onboard that she’s been thoroughly indoctrinated by the propaganda she can’t take onboard I haven’t even though I’ve told her numerous times. Of course, the big football matches they still go ahead with with audiences of 50,000 don’t receive the kind of condemnation the march has attracted.

No I know it has no effect, Jim, I know that only too well from the throngs that were out against the Iraq War. I know that it was no coincidence that our PM, Little Johnny Howard, was in Washington on 9/11 and I know that Little Johnny oversaw the faking of two refugee boats either side of 9/11 just before the November 2001 election, the three events all playing their role in his re-election and I know that the Leader of the “Opposition”, Kim Beazley, was in on the faking of the refugee boats meaning he was sacrificing his own party’s chances for power all in order for Australia to support the US in Iraq. Australia was ALWAYS going to support the US in Iraq no matter what size mob was out there in protest.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/how-major-fraud-helped-john-howard-to-election-victory-in-2001

I KNOW no effect is achieved, except perhaps one of backfire (which I couldn’t care less about) … but it was fun and it was good to mix with lots of people who weren’t wearing masks.

Edith
Edith
Jul 26, 2021 5:11 AM
Reply to  Jubal Hershaw

Well I keep telling everyone we are doing lock step nazi germany….wait until we get to the dying in large numbers which fits in this time frame as well..

Muggles
Muggles
Jul 26, 2021 12:38 AM

I had to leave, came down to Mexico six months before the Rona hit. Among the top reasons was all the oppressive social engineering. I knew something big and unpleasant was coming, you could feel it every day, but I didn’t know it would be worldwide.

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 12:22 AM

falsely claiming Joseph Kennedy made his fortune in the illegal liquor business and in association with the Mob

Bullocks,
You would never get away with that tripe anywhere in Newfoundland, anywhere.

The Crosby family( wealthiest family in Newfoundland) did not acquire their wealth through selling sugar and molasses, but through a complex association with the French( St Pierre Miquelon) ( UK/ Jamaica and Barbados ) and Rum Runner J Kennedy during Prohibition.
Fantasy revisionist history

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 26, 2021 12:56 AM
Reply to  Marcello
Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 1:30 AM
Reply to  S Cooper

Typical Kennedy trademark, women were treated as disposable toys

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 6:24 AM
Reply to  Marcello

to the thumbs downer, oh of course I forgot Kennedy was a Saint, my apologies. Forget about Chappaquiddick.

Peter
Peter
Jul 26, 2021 7:17 AM
Reply to  Marcello

Another fucking psyop, shill.

gabriel
gabriel
Jul 26, 2021 2:35 PM
Reply to  Marcello

So that’s why they killed JFK, as revenge for Mary Jo K.. Good, another history’s mistery solved!

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 3:26 PM
Reply to  gabriel

No, its because he didn’t pay for his fries and burger at the Burlington Vermont Howard and Johnsons

2fat2surf
2fat2surf
Jul 26, 2021 6:24 PM
Reply to  Marcello

One way I like to stir up hatred toward the folks that murdered the Kennedy’s is to remind Irish folks that the Kennedys were Irish leaders and that their deaths will someday be avenged.

Peter
Peter
Jul 26, 2021 7:16 AM
Reply to  Marcello

How come the real bootleggers, the Bronfman family never get blamed ? They are Justin Castreau’s sponsors and were involved in the JFK hit.

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 3:27 PM
Reply to  Peter

more precisely the Carlyle Group, been so for a long time

Maxwell
Maxwell
Jul 26, 2021 12:16 AM

For those who refer to the Democrats and Republicans as two sides of the same coin, Helen Gahagan Douglas’ campaign was illustrative of how the extreme right-wing of the Democratic Party (the anti-New Deal faction) purged the Left and became the new “Liberal-Left”. While Nixon lambasted Gahagan Douglas from outside the Democratic Party, the attack from the inside was launched by none other than John F. Kennedy, Nixon’s opponent in 1960 for the presidency.

During the 1950 Nixon campaign against Gahagan Douglas, Kennedy extensively red-baited Douglas (“the Pink Lady”) for her support for Henry Wallce (FDR’s V.P. before Truman) in his Progressive Party run for the presidency in 1948.

For those who don’t remember one of Sen. Joe McCarthy’s biggest financial backers and friends was Joe Kennedy, the dad, despite the fact that McCarthy was a Republican. McCarthy actually dated JFK’s sister.

In 1953, RFK was a senior staffer for McCarthy at the height of McCarthyism. JFK was an ardent supporter. Take a look at how he voted in the vote to censure McCarthy in 1954. In fact, take a look at JFK’s entire voting record as a Congressman and as a Senator (short as both those tenures were).

The largest and most radical of the CIO unions at the time was UE, the United Electrical Workers, primarily concentrated at GE and Westinghouse among other major employers. The union was particularly powerful in Massachusetts with perhaps its most important local being at Lynn/GE (the aircraft engine plant). After the war, the government decided that UE had to be destroyed.

The entire spectrum of what was thrown at UE is a history unto itself, starting with HUAC and reaching past McCarthy. The campaign included jailings, shootings, arbitrary de-certifications of locals, a “counter-union” funded by the government, FBI and Congressional committee intimidation, open collusion between the cops, the government, the employers, and the counter-union, you name it.

In Massachusetts, the Kennedys led the effort. They toured the state, lending their considerable power and “charisma” to destroying the union. The union was devastated.

The guy who debated Kennedy at Lynn/GE was Don Tormey an unsung hero in the hidden history of America.

As for Kennedy? He was just another red-baiter, just another cop.

Best to stop with the hagiographies- none of these people who reach high positions of power in the bourgeoisie system of exploitation and corporate rule are on our side. Kennedy is no exception to this.

was

martin
martin
Jul 26, 2021 2:19 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

Were not McCarthy and Joe Kennedy in opposition to the ascendancy we have now? They saw it coming as did many, the corporate gangster State whose enemy was free enterprise small business and moral law.

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 9:29 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

I agree with most of what you write Maxwell, but do you really think JFK or RFK or MLK would tweet ‘Get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do’. I don’t. But then then they’d get the same treatment again.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Jul 26, 2021 12:58 PM
Reply to  Corarden

Someone like JFK, if he held the same policy positions, would never get to the podium in today’s political landscape.

That is not a reflection of JFK’s political positions, he was an ardent imperialist, so much as a commentary on how far to the right the pendulum has swung in the US political spectrum over the past 40 years.

Corarden
Corarden
Jul 26, 2021 1:36 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

Then why the need for a coup d’etat in November ’63? There is documented evidence he shut down false flag plans against the people of the USA. The government was replaced, and The USA has never been the same since. Why does his name come up so regularly if people don’t know something terrible happened. And even the term ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ was created specifically to shut naysayers up regarding his assassination, and is of course used to such great effect to silence naysayers now. Surely someone as cognisant of the Covid con can see that the official version of events and the lies are as monumental in the case of JFK as the mess we find ourselves in today. I would even go as far as saying one can draw a straight line from JFK’s death to the events of September 2001 to where we are now.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:34 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

“The one on the right is now on the left ?” to paraphrase Johnny Cash in 1965 ?

2fat2surf
2fat2surf
Jul 26, 2021 6:31 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

If he was an ardent imperialist owned by the same scum that later did the 911 attacks he would not have been murdered.
Everything we hear about JFK and RFK and even John Jr in the mainstream media is at best back-handed compliments or outright slander and libel.
And who pray tell owns our mainstream media. The preacher Billy Graham knew and is on Nixon’s secretly recorded tapes saying so.

Peter
Peter
Jul 27, 2021 5:03 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

Utter rubbish. His first foreign policy speech in 1957 championed Algerian independence. That earned him the hatred of the OAS which participated in his murder,

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jul 26, 2021 10:35 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

Four Kennedy’s were martyred. Proof they were against the NWO which is now depopulating and dystopianising the Planet.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:39 PM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

You give these guys way to much global influence ! While JFK did prevent a nuclear holocaust over Cuba .They were parochial American pols in the main . Reread Ehrlichs Population Bomb perhaps

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 6:06 PM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

Joe Sr = owned a film studio
Joe Jr = allegedly shot down while flying; this event was filmed
JFK = allegedly shot while riding in a car; this event was filmed
RFK = allegedly shot while in a hotel;this event was filmed
John Jr = allegedly downed in a plane; unknown if this event was filmed

It seems to me to be a remarkable string of coincidences that 3 people, all related, all famous, and all children of a man who owned a film studio all had their unusual deaths filmed.

There is much more here than meets the all-seeing eye.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:32 PM
Reply to  Maxwell

While everything you offer may be true it is historical and skewed by context and the flavor of the times to some extent ? JFK was a moderate when compared to Nixon , or Curtis LeMay , or Alan Dulles , or J Edgar Hoover ? I was recommending that people take a look at Obomber’s voting record when he announced himself as the change candidate , with 0 effect , and set off the horror we now fin our selves caught up in .

simon crow
simon crow
Jul 26, 2021 12:01 AM

I always enjoy your musings Mr. Curtain and always relate with your words.
I, too am struggling to maintain a sense of higher self through this unprecedented tyranny that feels like it is encroaching on all sides. I consider myself in exile in Canada and it is not entirely self-imposed either.

It is why i come to this sight, to remind me that i am not alone in my resistance to this madness. I must confess that i have come to rely on it to help keep me sane. Other sights that once provided that same support are now gone to me due to the divisive nature of this covid cult/virus that has destroyed human bonds of trust between family, friends, marriages and communities. Many things that were part of my ‘world’ have gone including the sense of belonging in this society however fringe that belonging may have been before.

So, i must comment on ‘process’ when it comes to the timing of articles posted on this site. There are two dimensions to any human interpersonal interaction. There is the content of what is being conveyed and what is being said or written and there is the process of how it was said, what was not said, to who it was said, to who it was not said, why was it said now, why was it said at all etc. etc…And this leads me to express how dis-empowering it was to me to visit this site over this past weekend.

It began a few days before this ‘freedom’ weekend when i was looking forward to reading some content that was empowering only to encounter that article on the Russian Mayor coercing folks to take their vaccine, wtf, so it isn’t just a western capitalist cluster fuck and whats the point of organized resistance anyway when the Borg is everywhere was my feeling after reading that.

Ok, its Friday before the big weekend and i was wondering what was going on out there only to find the excellent article on industrialized farming which i totally got but it felt like a distraction. I mean how many different things can one focus on at once and still get it in gear for the weekend?

Saturday came and went and of course there was an article posted for freedom marches that was posted rather late (in Canada anyways) and it was supplanted with another article about fuckbook censorship (dah, ya think) not long after, which in my view took the focus off the freedom marches before folks could even get back and breath. Who is going to post on an article that is no longer current?

Sunday and isolation in exile is increasing and now i am wondering on what it means to be digitally corralled. I am trying to envision a life with no community and no health care and how to turn that into lemonade, it is work in progress, but a good guitar helps…cheers

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:41 AM
Reply to  simon crow

If you enjoy his musings at least spell his name right 😉

Pavlov Dog's Food Thief
Pavlov Dog's Food Thief
Jul 26, 2021 6:50 AM

Fuck! For a while I was taking you seriously, but this? What a stupid remark!

You’re a small person. Just like microzuckerberg Sam.

Disheartening …

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jul 26, 2021 7:30 AM

microzuckerberg Sam

😂 😂 😂 😂

Honestly, if you’ve made it this far only to become crestfallen by a minor thing like this you’re a) a blessed individual and b) in for a shock.

microzuckerberg… 😅

Marcello
Marcello
Jul 26, 2021 4:52 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

LOL

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 8:07 AM

Spelling a person’s name correctly is not a small thing when it’s your name. It’s actually a mark of respect.

Spelling words in general correctly is just better than not doing it, and the only people who think it doesn’t matter are the people who can’t do it.

Call me a tiny little cynic fairy – but I think you may be one of them. 😉✔️

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:41 PM

Why not add a spell checker app to your comment section?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:37 PM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

It’s not our software but we can suggest it to the developers

Grace Johns
Grace Johns
Jul 28, 2021 6:52 PM

Uptick in these admins distributing slapdowns, like disapproving schoolmarms.

Seansaighdeor
Seansaighdeor
Jul 25, 2021 11:17 PM

There is a lot myth surrounding Kennedy but JFK offered hope as he developed a practical and working relationship with Khrushchev which saw off the hawks in the US angling for a first strike against the USSR. This had brought both countries to the brink with the Cuban missile crisis.

That approach offered real hope and its tantalising to explore where that may have lead. Kennedy and Khrushchev had a mutual respect and more in common than the hawkish elements within their administrations.

As the author says this cost Kennedy his life. He also had began the first steps in a dialogue with Castro that could have transformed Cuba US relations.

Sadly for both the US and Cuba as well as the West the CIA couldn’t allow that. The US never recovered from that event and won’t until the truth of what happened that day is finally uncovered.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 25, 2021 11:54 PM
Reply to  Seansaighdeor

Uncovering the truth won’t change anything unless the CIA is neutered and people are constantly on guard to recognise when the next head of the hydra is surreptitiously launched to keep on doing what the CIA has always done.

Nothing will change until Capitol Hill is cleared of the prostitutes who fund the MIC in ways so obscene and corrupt it makes any sane human being want to weep.

Nothing will change until the pathetic controlling, murdering, dominance-at-all-costs pathology of the puppet masters is ended.

Of course, even if you clear the USA of that filth, there is no evidence to suggest that it won’t then emerge from somewhere else. Plenty of wannabe billionaires who would happily become global drug lords, I bet you. The Brits loved it in the 18th and 19th centuries, the Colombians loved it in the 20th. Who would be surprised if warlords from Africa and Asia did not emerge in the 21st??

Most people only have one shot at contributing to reducing the power of the drug warlords. Bringing up their own children to be free of any need for such drugs.

Many, many people fail in that one task. It’s why the drug warlords are still with us.

But it should be priority one for every set of parents and only when they are sure they have succeeded in that primary task should their ambitions broaden to more ambitious aims.

grr
grr
Jul 25, 2021 10:12 PM

This article was a whimsical and child like reminisce of JFK. He was not the saint E. Curtin makes him out to be; nor was he a treacherous, treasonous, criminal scumbag like G.H. Bush.

Gin
Gin
Jul 25, 2021 9:52 PM

A lot of nice places with beaches on this Planet, and one doesn’t have to try too hard to leave behind a howling wilderness.. Got a passport? Keep moving; don’t look back..

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Jul 25, 2021 9:17 PM

JFK’s administration orchestrated regime change in Canada in 1962-3.
https://archives.globalresearch.ca/articles/SAN303D.html
and orchestrated the regime change in Iraq in Feb ’63 which brought to prominence a military officer named Saddam Hussein. Any inquiries about why the Special Forces Center in Ft Bragg, North Carolina, is named after JFK? Or the source of the Latin American death squads with the “Alliance for Progress”?

letmeout
letmeout
Jul 25, 2021 7:46 PM

To all those americans who, like the author, seem to not like it. I’d swap with you any time you like (I’m in the uk). At least you’ve got the ability to change your life by moving to another part of the usa, most of which is unique (florida vs hawaii vs conneticut vs tennesse vs oregon vs alaska vs california vs etc). In most other parts of the world, like the uk, there’s no way out. Every corner sucks, and every corner is exactly the same.

Blind Gill
Blind Gill
Jul 25, 2021 10:43 PM
Reply to  letmeout

I second that. Where we had other countries we could go to within the union we’ve found these are now dictatorships. The scary thing is I think they always were and I just didn’t notice.

kevin
kevin
Jul 25, 2021 10:45 PM
Reply to  letmeout

I’m in Canada and this is exactly how I feel. I would never have imagined wanting to live in the US, or certain parts of it, as much as I do now.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:45 PM
Reply to  kevin

I fell in love with the American dream in 1960 found it to be illusory in the main but still prefer it to the Canadian reality which at the moment is difficult to escape . Since the border is closed and only those of wealth and influence are allowed to travel .

Cascadian
Cascadian
Jul 25, 2021 11:33 PM
Reply to  letmeout

There’s always Benbecula – I’m sure that you will like it, a bit windy, a bit cold, a bit distant, a bit… (Fill in the blanks).

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 25, 2021 11:57 PM
Reply to  letmeout

If you think London is like Ullapool, I think you are challenged between the ears. If you think Manchester is like Padstow, think again. If you think that Sheffield is like Bath, think again.

If you have $100,000 to invest in a new business in the USA, they will let you in.

grr
grr
Jul 26, 2021 12:44 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That’s cheap. Similar investment visa in Australia is 700K+.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:47 PM
Reply to  grr

It’s a typo it currently is north of 1 million , to purchase the platinum passports issued by Obomber/Bush2

red lester
red lester
Jul 26, 2021 9:17 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Ordinary people cannot move to property hotspots like Padstow or Bath. Just because we have gentrified enclaves doesn’t mean there are many opportunities there. Sure a cute youngster can do barwork and rent a bedsit? Normal towns in the UK generally suck. And I have lived North and South.

Joki
Joki
Jul 26, 2021 1:31 AM
Reply to  letmeout

I like the land, for sure, although Florida takes as much as it gives, and Tennesse in the summer is not a place I want to be. California is gorgeous, breathtaking even, yet sadly full of insane people. Hawaii is even more luxurious but might as well be on the Moon for all most of us here know about it, much less trying to actually move there.

My state (MD) is sometimes called “america in miniature” and I get why. It’s the geography, like you mentioned. Beaches, mountains, forests, hills and lakes and a monstrous bay. It’s very diverse. You should visit. (I might be down to trade depending on where in the UK you are, but no promises. I liked Ireland and bits of Wales, if that’s any indication. I found Chichester to be quite depressing and London didn’t appeal.)

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 26, 2021 4:43 AM
Reply to  Joki

No one in the UK is permitted to visit the US unless for exceptional reasons such as having family there.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 26, 2021 3:48 PM

That and a bag of cash ?

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 26, 2021 6:20 AM
Reply to  letmeout

No, no, no…
Every corner of America is exactly the same.

Okay, you can travel thousands of miles and change climate from freezing cold to frying-pan hot, but it’s very hard not to notice that the layout of streets and the architecture of houses in all the cities might as well have been designed by one company.

It’s really quite oppressive once you notice it, but frankly I’m much more concerned about the way in which it is now actual people who are becoming the same everywhere – because that’s clearly what ‘the authorities’ want.

It seems to me that soon it won’t matter where anybody lives, because the same rules will always apply about wearing masks, measuring two metres between ourselves, getting our children vaccinated with heaven knows what substances, acting as if we were panic-stricken for the rest of our lives … well, you get the picture…

Aethelred
Aethelred
Jul 26, 2021 12:07 PM
Reply to  wardropper

You haven’t been up in the hills or down in the swamps. The cities and suburbs are much the same everywhere, but when you get away from the phony 20th century constructs you can see the land and the people who live on it. The totalitarian powers will try to obliterate them but they have yet to construct the means to do so.

rubberheid
rubberheid
Jul 25, 2021 7:25 PM

i saw Hughes, maybe a salmon, McRae was there too, oor Wullie; I saw Colkitto birl behint stage afore Ui Domhnall; Cargill and Montrose gied his grin and DaBruise lorded over the righteousness of them all; Alpin blessed them in the name of Brighid and Christ; then Calgacus made a speech he never knowingly made; but life moved on. : /

Joki
Joki
Jul 25, 2021 7:18 PM

“He saved this land whose evil CIA forces slayed him.”

Did he? Did they? The author appears to take those things as a given. I do not.

“Thirty years ago, his movie JFK was sabotaged by the CIA-controlled media as a fictional illusion, and now the truth is still verboten here.”

In my opinion Stone and his movie are no less illusory nor controlled than that same media.

“The white invaders…”

Seriously? They couldn’t be just “invaders”? They had to be singled out as “white”, did they? Not “heartless invaders” or “cruel invaders” or “greedy invaders” or even, gods forbid, simply “misguided invaders”? Nope.

“The white invaders…”

The white invaders who kidnapped a number of… well, red invaders, actually, if we’re going to start labelling “races”. Or have we forgotten that capture and enslavement was widely practiced here in what would become America, too? Those “red” folks spent a fair amount of time warring on one another, “invading” one another you might say, and it frequently involved snatching up members of the opposing tribe to take as permanent captives. The practice was widespread and still very much underway when the “white invaders” reached these shores.

No less immoral, to be sure, yet also certainly not an exclusively “white invader” franchise by any means, so why the qualifer on “invaders”?

“[Boston] was built to its current renown on the money made by its famous blue blood families through the opium trade that killed so many Chinese in the 19th century. They were money-obsessed, bloodthirsty killers. I don’t think they warned the Chinese that they were being sold a drug pandemic.”

Why in the world would “the Chinese” have needed a warning!?

They were the ones growing and peddling the stuff, quite happily, to those “white invaders”, were they not? Am I to assume they were completely unaware of their own product’s destructive capabilities? They never noticed in all those centuries of peddling it to their own?

That opium trade was a partnership, not some grand theft from “the Chinese” by yet more “white invaders”. They, “the Chinese”, didn’t give two shits about their own lump of proles anymore than the East India Co. did. Or are “the Chinese” somehow blameless for encouraging, cultivating, harvesting, producing and selling the drug to the East India Co. for wider distribution?

Are they likewise blameless today for all the sneaker factories along with their accompanying suicide nets? Puh-leeze. A tango danced alone is no dance at all.

“Thinking of the slaughter of native peoples from California to the New York island can only make a US American deeply ashamed.”

I’m not ashamed of someone else’s actions. I am, if anything, disgusted.

Why would I be ashamed? If I should “only” be “deeply ashamed” for this terrible set of actions by our ancestors, when would I ever have occasion to lose such “shame”? Because it ain’t as if we can’t all find something to be “ashamed” about in “our” past, is it? Why stop at “shame” over that? Why not go all the way back and just blame everything on Eve and that damned apple she tempted us with, and carry our species’ deep shame over it forever and ever, Amen?

The question I have is, “Why would you want to keep living in the past?”

Fatalist
Fatalist
Jul 25, 2021 7:48 PM
Reply to  Joki

The Oliver Stone film was drivel of the lowest kind. His film about the Doors was also drivel.

George Mc
George Mc
Jul 25, 2021 11:00 PM
Reply to  Fatalist

drivel of the lowest kind

Oh the irony!