How to identify CIA limited hangout?

by Webster Tarpley, June 2013

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This article originally appeared on PressTV.ir in 2013 at this link, which is now inactive (you can see it here on the Wayback machine). There is a shortened version available at Tarpley.net.OffG doesn’t necessarily or wholly endorse Tarpley’s view but, in accordance with our remit, we think it’s one worthy of discussion.

NOTE: we have added links to sources that were not in the original

The operations of secret intelligence agencies aiming at the manipulation of public opinion generally involve a combination of cynical deception with the pathetic gullibility of the targeted populations.
There is ample reason to believe that the case of Edward Joseph Snowden fits into this pattern. We are likely dealing here with a limited hangout operation, in which carefully selected and falsified documents and other materials are deliberately revealed by an insider who pretends to be a fugitive rebelling against the excesses of some oppressive or dangerous government agency.
But the revelations turn out to have been prepared with a view to shaping the public consciousness in a way which is advantageous to the intelligence agency involved. At the same time, gullible young people can be duped into supporting a personality cult of the leaker, more commonly referred to as a “whistleblower.”
A further variation on the theme can be the attempt of the sponsoring intelligence agency to introduce their chosen conduit, now posing as a defector, into the intelligence apparatus of a targeted foreign government [Snowden did not become stranded in Moscow until five days after this article was published – OffG]. In this case, the leaker or whistleblower attains the status of a triple agent.
Any attempt to educate public opinion about the dynamics of limited hangout operations inevitably collides with the residue left in the minds of millions by recent successful examples of this technique. It will be hard for many to understand Snowden, precisely because they will insist on seeing him as the latest courageous example in a line of development still viewed by large swaths of naïve opinion as authentic challengers of oppressive government.
The landmark limited hangout operation at the beginning of the current post-Cold War era was that of Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers, which laid the groundwork for the CIA’s Watergate attack on the Nixon administration, and more broadly, on the office of the presidency itself.
More recently, we have had the case of Assange and Wikileaks.
Using these two cases primarily, we can develop a simple typology of the limited hangout operation which can be of significant value to those striving to avoid the role of useful idiots amidst the current cascade of whistleblowers and limited hangout artists.
In this analysis, we should also recall that limited hangouts have been around for a very long time. In 1620 Fra Paolo Sarpi, the dominant figure of the Venetian intelligence establishment of his time, advised the Venetian senate that the best way to defeat anti-Venetian propaganda was indirectly. He recommended the method of saying something good about a person or institution while pretending to say something bad. An example might be criticizing a bloody dictator for beating his dog – the real dimensions of his crimes are thus totally underplayed.

Limited hangout artists are instant media darlings

The most obvious characteristic of the limited hangout operative is that he or she immediately becomes the darling of the controlled corporate media. In the case of Daniel Ellsberg, his doctored set of Pentagon papers were published by the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, and eventually by a consortium totaling seventeen corporate newspapers.
These press organs successfully argued the case for publication all the way to the United States Supreme Court, where they prevailed against the Nixon administration.
Needless to say, surviving critics of the Warren Commission, and more recent veterans of the 9/11 truth movement, and know very well that this is emphatically not the treatment reserved for messengers whose revelations are genuinely unwelcome to the Wall Street centered US ruling class. These latter are more likely to be slandered, vilified and dragged through the mud, or, even more likely, passed over in complete silence and blacked out. In extreme cases, they can be kidnapped, renditioned or liquidated.

Cass Sunstein present at the creation of Wikileaks

As for Assange and Wikileaks, the autumn 2010 document dump was farmed out in advance to five of the most prestigious press organs in the world, including the New York Times, the London Guardian, El Pais of Madrid, Der Spiegel of Hamburg, and Le Monde of Paris.
This was the Assange media cartel, made up of papers previously specialized in discrediting 9/11 critics and doubters. But even before the document dumps had begun, Wikileaks had received a preemptive endorsement from none other than the notorious totalitarian Cass Sunstein, later an official of the Obama White House, and today married to Samantha Power, the author of the military coup that overthrew Mubarak and currently Obama’s pick for US ambassador to the United Nations.
Sunstein is infamous for his thesis that government agencies should conduct covert operations using pseudo-independent agents of influence for the “cognitive infiltration of extremist groups” – meaning of those who reject in the establishment view of history and reality. Sunstein’s article entitled “Brave New WikiWorld” was published in the Washington Post of February 24, 2007, and touted the capabilities of Wikileaks for the destabilization of China.
Perhaps the point of Ed Snowden’s presence in Hong Kong is to begin re-targeting these capabilities back towards the original anti-Chinese plan [see note above – Snowden didn’t arrive in Moscow until five days after this article was published – OffG].
Snowden has already become a media celebrity of the first magnitude. His career was launched by the US left liberal Glenn Greenwald, now writing for the London Guardian, which expresses the viewpoints of the left wing of the British intelligence community. Thus, the current scandal is very much Made in England, and may benefit from inputs from the British GCHQ of Cheltenham, the Siamese twin of the NSA at Fort Meade, Maryland. During the days of his media debut, it was not uncommon to see a controlled press organ like CNN dedicating one third of every broadcast hour of air time to the birth, life, and miracles of Ed Snowden.
Another suspicious and tell-tale endorsement for Snowden comes from the former State Department public diplomacy asset Norman Solomon. Interviewed on RT, Solomon warmly embraced the Snowden Project and assured his viewers that the NSA material dished up by the Hong Kong defector used reliable and authentic.
Solomon was notorious ten years ago as a determined enemy of 9/11 truth, acting as a border guard in favor of the Bush administration/neocon theory of terrorism.

Limited hangouts contain little that is new

Another important feature of the limited hangout operation if that the revelations often contain nothing new, but rather repackage old wine in new bottles. In the case of Ellsberg’s Pentagon Papers, very little was revealed which was not already well known to a reader of Le Monde or the dispatches of Agence France Presse. Only those whose understanding of world affairs had been filtered through the Associated Press, CBS News, the New York Times, and the Washington Post found any of Ellsberg’s material a surprise.
Of course, there was method in Ellsberg’s madness. The Pentagon papers allegedly derived from an internal review of the decision-making processes leading to the Vietnam War, conducted after 1967-68 under the supervision of Morton Halperin and Leslie Gelb. Ellsberg, then a young RAND Corporation analyst and militant warmonger, was associated with this work.
Upon examination, we find that the Pentagon papers tend to cover up such CIA crimes as the mass murder mandated under Operation Phoenix, and the massive CIA drug running associated with the proprietary airline Air America. Rather, when atrocities are in question, the US Army generally receives the blame.
Politicians in general, and President John F. Kennedy in particular, are portrayed in a sinister light – one might say demonized. No insights whatever into the Kennedy assassination are offered. This was a smelly concoction, and it was not altogether excluded that the radicalized elements of the Vietnam era might have carried the day in denouncing the entire package as a rather obvious fabrication.
But a clique around Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn loudly intervened to praise the quality of the exposé and to lionize Ellsberg personally as a new culture hero for the Silent Generation. From that moment on, the careers of Chomsky and Zinn soared. Pentagon papers skeptics, like the satirical comedian Mort Sahl, a supporter of the Jim Garrison investigation in New Orleans and a critic of the Warren Commission, faced the marginalization of their careers.
Notice also that the careers of Morton Halperin and Leslie Gelb positively thrived after they entrusted the Pentagon papers to Ellsberg, who revealed them. Ellsberg was put on trial in 1973, but all charges were dismissed after several months because of prosecutorial misconduct.
Assange lived like a lord for many months in the palatial country house of an admirer in the East of England, and is now holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. He spent about 10 days in jail in December 2010.
Assange first won credibility for Wikileaks with some chum in the form of a shocking film showing a massacre perpetrated by US forces in Iraq with the aid of drones. The massacre itself and the number of victims were already well known, so Assange was adding only the graphic emotional impact of witnessing the atrocity firsthand.

Limited hangouts reveal nothing about big issues like JFK, 9/11

Over the past century, there are certain large-scale covert operations which cast a long historical shadow, determining to some extent the framework in which subsequent events occur. These include the Sarajevo assassinations of 1914, the assassination of Rasputin in late 1916, Mussolini’s 1922 march on Rome, Hitler’s seizure of power in 1933, the assassination of French Foreign Minister Barthou in 1934, the assassination of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1945, in 1963 Kennedy assassination, and 9/11. A common feature of the limited hangout operations is that they offer almost no insights into these landmark events.
In the Pentagon Papers, the Kennedy assassination is virtually a nonexistent event about which we learn nothing. As already noted, the principal supporters of Ellsberg were figures like Chomsky, whose hostility to JFK and profound disinterest in critiques of the Warren Commission were well-known.
As for Assange, he rejects any further clarification of 9/11. In July 2010, Assange told Matthew Bell of the Belfast Telegraph:

I’m constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud.

This is on top of Cass Sunstein’s demand for active covert measures to suppress and disrupt inquiries into operations like 9/11. Snowden’s key backers Glenn Greenwald and Norman Solomon have both compiled impressive records of evasion on 9/11 truth, with Greenwald specializing in the blowback theory.

The Damascus road conversions of limited hangout figures

Daniel Ellsberg

Daniel Ellsberg started his career as a nuclear strategist of the Dr. Strangelove type working for the RAND Corporation. He worked in the Pentagon as an aide to US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. He then went to Vietnam, where he served as a State Department civilian assistant to CIA General Edward Lansdale.
In 1967, he was back at RAND to begin the preparation of what would come to be known as the Pentagon papers. Ellsberg has claimed that his Damascus Road conversion from warmonger to peace angel occurred when he heard a speech from a prison-bound draft resister at Haverford College in August 1969.
After a mental breakdown, Ellsberg began taking his classified documents to the office of Senator Edward Kennedy and ultimately to the New York Times. Persons who believe this fantastic story may be suffering from terminal gullibility.
Julian Assange

In the case of Assange, it is harder to identify such a moment of conversion. Assange spent his childhood in the coils of MK Ultra, a complex of Anglo-American covert operations designed to investigate and implement mind control through the use of psychopharmaca and other means [note we can so far only find Tarpley himself as a source for this – OffG]. Assange was a denizen of the Ann Hamilton-Byrne cult, in which little children that were subjected to aversive therapy involving LSD and other heavy-duty drugs. Assange spent his formative years as a wandering nomad with his mother incognito because of her involvement in a custody dispute. The deracinated Assange lived in 50 different towns and attended 37 different schools.
By the age of 16, the young nihilist was active as a computer hacker using the screen name “Mendax,” meaning quite simply “The Liar.” (Assange’s clone Snowden uses the more marketable codename of “Verax,” the truth teller.) Some of Assange’s first targets were Nortel and US Air Force offices in the Pentagon. Assange’s chief mentor became John Young of Cryptome, who in 2007 denounced Wikileaks as a CIA front.
Edward Snowden

Snowden’s story, as widely reported, goes like this: he dropped out of high school and also dropped out of a community college, but reportedly was nevertheless later able to command a salary of between $120,000 and $200,000 per year; he claims this is because he is a computer wizard. He enlisted in the US Army in May 2004, and allegedly hoped to join the special forces and contribute to the fight for freedom in Iraq. He then worked as a low-level security guard for the National Security Agency, and then went on to computer security at the CIA, including a posting under diplomatic cover in Switzerland.
He moved on to work as a private contractor for the NSA at a US military base in Japan. His last official job was for the NSA at the Kunia Regional SIGINT Operations Center in Hawaii. In May 2013, he is alleged to have been granted medical leave from the NSA in Hawaii to get treatment for epilepsy. He fled to Hong Kong, and made his revelations with the help of Greenwald and a documentary filmmaker Laura Poitras. Snowden voted for the nominally anti-war, ultra-austerity “libertarian” presidential candidate Ron Paul, and gave several hundred dollars to Paul’s campaign.
Snowden, like Ellsberg, thus started off as a warmonger but later became more concerned with the excesses of the Leviathan state. Like Assange, he was psychologically predisposed to the world of computers and cybernetics. The Damascus Road shift from militarist to civil libertarian remains unexplained and highly suspicious.
Snowden is also remarkable for the precision of his timing. His first revelations, open secrets though they were, came on June 5 [2013], precisely today when the rebel fortress of Qusayr was liberated by the Syrian army and Hezbollah. At this point, the British and French governments were screaming at Obama that it was high time to attack Syria [we can’t currently find any source for this interpretation of events in Syria – OffG].

Glenn Greenwald’s Snowden revelations in the Guardian, June 6 2013


The appearance of Snowden’s somewhat faded material in the London Guardian was the trigger for a firestorm of criticism against the Obama regime by the feckless US left liberals, who were thus unwittingly greasing the skids for a US slide into a general war in the Middle East.
More recently, Snowden came forward with allegations that the US and the British had eavesdropped on participants in the meeting of the G-20 nations held in Britain four years ago. This obviously put Obama on the defensive just as Cameron and Hollande were twisting his arm to start the Syrian adventure [again we currently have no source for this alleged arm-twisting – in fact by the autumn of 2013 the UK had ruled out intervention in Syria – OffG]. By attacking the British GCHQ at Cheltenham, Britain’s equivalent to the NSA, perhaps Snowden was also seeking to obfuscate the obvious British sponsorship of his revelations.
Stories about Anglo Americans spying on high profile guests are as old as the hills, and have included a British frogman who attempted an underwater investigation of the Soviet cruiser that brought party leader N. S. Khrushchev for a visit in the 1950s. Snowden has also accused the NSA of hacking targets in China — again, surely no surprise to experienced observers, but guaranteed to increase Sino-American tensions. As time passes, Snowden may emerge as more and more of a provocateur between Washington and Beijing.

Limited hangouts prepare large covert operations

Although, as we have seen, limited hangouts rarely illuminate the landmark covert operations which attempt to define an age, limited hangouts themselves do represent the preparation for future covert operations.
In the case of the Pentagon papers, this and other leaks during the Indo-Pakistani Tilt crisis were cited by Henry Kissinger in his demand that President Richard Nixon take countermeasures to restore the integrity of state secrets. Nixon foolishly authorized the creation of a White House anti-leak operation known as the Plumbers.
The intelligence community made sure that the Plumbers operation was staffed by their own provocateurs, people who never were loyal to Nixon but rather took their orders from Langley.
Here we find the already infamous CIA agent Howard Hunt, the CIA communications expert James McCord, and the FBI operative G. Gordon Liddy. These provocateurs took special pains to get arrested during an otherwise pointless break-in at the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in the summer of 1972.
Nixon could easily have disavowed the Plumbers and thrown this gaggle of agent provocateurs to the wolves, but he instead launched a cover up. Bob Woodward of the Washington Post, equipped with a top secret security clearance from the Office of Naval Intelligence, then began publicizing the story. The rest is history, and the lasting heritage has been a permanent weakening of the office of the presidency and the strengthening of the worst oligarchical tendencies.
Assange’s Wikileaks document dump triggered numerous destabilizations and coups d’état across the globe. Not one US, British, or Israeli covert operation or politician was seriously damaged by this material. The list of those impacted instead bears a striking resemblance to the CIA enemies’ list: the largest group of targets were Arab leaders slated for immediate ouster in the wave of “Arab Spring.”
Here we find Ben Ali of Tunisia, Qaddafi of Libya, Mubarak of Egypt, Saleh of Yemen, and Assad of Syria. The US wanted to replace Maliki with Allawi as prime minister of Iraq, so the former was targeted, as was the increasingly independent Karzai of Afghanistan. Perennial targets of the CIA included Rodriguez Kirchner of Argentina, Berlusconi of Italy, and Putin of Russia.
Berlusconi soon fell victim to a coup organized through the European Central Bank, while his friend Putin was able to stave off a feeble attempt at color revolution in early 2012. Mildly satiric jabs at figures like Merkel of Germany and Sarkozy of France were included primarily as camouflage.
Assange thus had a hand in preparing one of the largest destabilization campaigns mounted by Anglo-American intelligence since 1968, or perhaps even 1848.
If the Snowden operation can help coerce the vacillating and reluctant Obama to attack Syria, our new autistic hero may claim credit for starting a general war in the Middle East, and perhaps even more.
If Snowden can further poison relations between United States and China, the world historical significance of his provocations will be doubly assured. But none of this can occur unless he finds vast legions of eager dupes ready to fall for his act. We hope he won’t.


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Matt
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Matt

This post is sourced from… PressTV (Iranian propaganda) and Veterans Today, founded by fake news promoter, serial liar, and fraudster Gordon Duff. Not only that, but if something like this were published by the Western MSM, about the SVR or GRU, this website and its allies would have a field day crying about “Russophobia”. It has been entertaining seeing the so-called alt-left be coopted with fake news and pro-Kremlin disinformation. However, at this point, it is starting to worry me if outlets like off-G republish these sorts of bizarre articles, merely because they say some bad things about the CIA.… Read more »

Admin
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This article is not sourced to Veteran’s Today. It is sourced to PressTV and Tarpley.net.
This site does not endorse dismissal of sources on grounds of race. Iranians are people too. Your continued racist remarks are not appropriate.

la Cariatide
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WikiLeaks served the 911 Op by never publishing anything about 911. the only thing related to 911 they did publish were the cell phone files which only helped the fake cell phone narrative.

la Cariatide
Reader

quote: Shamir appears to be anti-Israel, yet he says “I can’t accept the Mossad and/or the Jews as the perpetrators of the 9/11.”
excuse me, that is definitely a red flag, period. we are in 2018 and there are still people who proclaim themselves whistleblowers while denying 9/11 false flag made in CIA/mossad..
http://aangirfan.blogspot.fr/2010/12/assange-shamir-disinformation-agents.html

Arrby
Reader

I read through this piece because OG and others seemed to think it was worth reading through. Now that I’ve read it, I don’t. It’s all over the place. Here’s a fevered mind just erupting for eruption’s sake, if not for some more nefarious reason. I would never expect anyone to read one of my blog posts if it was that long ‘and’ unsupported. If those are the author’s actual opinions, he’s welcome to them. They don’t interest me. I found the comments that followed to be interesting though.

la Cariatide
Reader

just an addendum about Veterans Today being disinfo media. when Gordon Duff explains that 40% is disinfo, he certainly thinks about that kind of paper: https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/06/11/were-ets-involved-in-911/
‘There have been reports from low to mid level insiders that ETs (LOL) may have been involved in the attack on America on 9-11-01. But no concrete smoking gun admissions with teeth or any serious credible evidence has been presented to back this up.’
no shit Sherlock! 🙂

Seamus Padraig
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Seamus Padraig

Although I don’t resent Off-G for publishing this, I, too, find Tarpley’s thesis a little hard to swallow. For one thing: if Snowden is a tool (or dupe) of the US deep-state, why did the Russians give him asylum? Why would they decide to actively assist Washington in pulling off a psy-op? As a former KGB man, Putin would definitely be in a position to know/understand what is going on here. Also, as other commenters here have pointed out, Veterans Today has openly admitted publishing disinfo in the past. This, then, raises the question as to whether VT itself is… Read more »

la Cariatide
Reader

first, bring the evidence that edward snowden (greenberg?) got asylum from Russia. he’s just an illegal alien with no motive to stay in Russia. John A Robles got political asylum from Russia. secondly, VeteransToday/Gordon Duff explained why they purposely have been publishing stories about Little Greys: in order to stay alive! VeteransToday has been smeared by neocons lately. https://journal-neo.org/2017/10/21/oxford-propaganda-front-attacks-veterans-today-the-neocon-witch-hunt-begins/ thirdly, VeteransToday publishes the truth about the nuclear attack on 9/11 false flag and about what actually happened in the german concentration camps in 1933-1945! is there any other Internet media (denouncing the wars, 9/11 false flag, Syria proxy war) which… Read more »

Catte
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Catte

Yes the alleged FDR assassination was new on us too 😉 . Tarpley does produce a lot of quite poorly-supported and speculative ideas on the whole, and his ideology leads him where cooler heads might be reluctant to follow , but his points about the amount of MSM exposure given Snowden are well made (it’s worth contrasting for example with the treatment given to the late Udo Ulfkotte, who has been consistently and violently abused in the media and whose book seems to have been disappeared in its English language version). Theoretically, of course there could be many reasons for… Read more »

Seamus Padraig
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Seamus Padraig

Yes, Catte. That’s why I’m a huge fan–and a very infrequent contributor–to this site. I admire your stand against group-think and epistemic closure. I believe Tarpley makes some good points about limited hangouts generally, and I also believe he raises some good points about Snowden/Assange specifically. However, a limited hangout is better than no hangout at all. As long as I think their basic narrative makes sense, I’m going to continue to follow them. But I appreciate the counterpoint. Thanks for your hard work,

rtj1211
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rtj1211

At the end of the day, all the top players use every strategy in the book to inform, misinform, direct, misdirect, smear, laud, defend and attack.
A particular strategy in no way badges someone to one side per se.

Admin
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Admin

FAO those who have accused us of ‘smearing’ Assange, here is a sample of our articles on the man.
https://off-guardian.org/tag/julian-assange/

tony0pmoc
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“Admin

January 8, 2018 "

Its January 5th 2018, and you didn’t post my comment. It was the first time, I have ever tried to post here, thoug I read you a lot.
Tony

Admin
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Admin

we futured the admin post to keep it at the op for a while. There is no comment in pending from you so if it hasn’t appeared I’m afraid it must have vanished into cyberspace. This happens a lot here and we advise people to keep a copy of any long comments they make before hitting “post” Just to remind everyone – we don’t pre-moderate so unless your comment has three or more links (when it will be held back by the spam software) it should appear immediately. If it doesn’t appear immediately and you didn’t have more than three… Read more »

candideschmyles
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I for one am grateful the article was posted. Just look at the debate it has stimulated!
I have several times indulged too much store in individuals I later came to distrust. My own musings here and elsewhere are limited to what I have absorbed, understood and misunderstood. I hope I always manage to maintain the degree of salience required to reject what I had thought true in light of new evidence. Science often gets a bad rap these days but the scientific method itself is a good place to start for any truthseeker.

la Cariatide
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can we have a counter-narrative? some facts that reply?
from Webster Tarpley published in Veterans Today.
https://www.veteranstodayarchives.com/2011/01/23/webster-tarpley-wikileaks-a-cognitive-infiltration-operation-video/
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/08/fake-and-faker-assange-and-snowden/
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/18/snowden-cia-shill/
i quote the article you have published above.
‘LIMITED HANGOUTS REVEAL NOTHING ABOUT BIG ISSUES LIKE JFK and */**
by any chance, would you happen to dislike VeteransToday? They published Gilad Atzmon among many others..

Joerg
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Joerg

@la Cariatide If Off-guardian made a mistake (that’s what I think) – why not “Veterans Today”? Is remains a fact, that if we could prosecute Assange and/or Snowden for treason, we couldn’t on the grounds that Tarpley only puts forward assumptions and conclusions, that in my opinion are not even able to raise suspicion, not to speak of convicting them. To every of Tarpley’ reproaches Assange/Snowden could give a reasonable answer. Your argument that “Veterans today” has and had good articles is also true for WaPo and NYT. Bernstein, Woodward, Seymour Hersh worked for them. But I don’t trust WaPo… Read more »

la Cariatide
Reader

thanks for the links about veteranstoday. here mine: http://jar2.com/1/Archive/2014/August/911_Nukes.html Duff himself admitted to publishing 40 percent disinfo to “stay alive” and not get censored too much. confirmed by that article published on New Eastern Outlook. sorry not sorry i did my homeworks 🙂 https://journal-neo.org/2017/10/21/oxford-propaganda-front-attacks-veterans-today-the-neocon-witch-hunt-begins/ As Duff has said in interviews, “without the conspiracy nuts, we wouldn’t have any readership numbers, it is our way of honoring Fox News and the new tabloids, after all doesn’t everyone love reading about two-headed alien babies from time to time?” = that’s Gordon Duff’ way to stay alive! he right, who doesn’t like ufo… Read more »

la Cariatide
Reader

about assange and snowden, is there a smocking-gun evidence that both are limited-hangouts? who knows? but we must grind and sharp our minds even about/against the people we believe are legit. about/against veteranstoday also, i agree with you. and it is not the first time someone replied to my links from veteranstoday that Gordon Duff is a shill. perhaps John A Roble is the least shill still alive. many whistleblowers (who were killed were not shills. probably. i think about Philipp Marshall killed with his children and his dog. he wrote the Big Bamboozle. and to Bill Cooper who said… Read more »

Admin
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Admin

You and every else is welcome to present a counter-narrative either here or as an article submission.

la Cariatide
Reader

what do you mean by a counter-narrative? would you mean something a little maggot as I would write for you to publish? nah, i stick for being a little maggot reading 😉

candideschmyles
Reader

@ La Cariatide,
I for one consider little maggots an essential part of the food chain. I would love to see you expand on what you have already said.

la Cariatide
Reader

about what? the admin does not want we go further about some particular issue. i agree.
come here if you speak about what i think you do: https://off-guardian.org/2017/09/28/the-biggest-lies-of-911/

candideschmyles
Reader

I was not referring to 9/11 😂

Joerg
Reader
Joerg

Relax, relax!
I think it was inapropriate to publish Tarpley article. This is all!
A bad choice, that’s it!
I didn’t mean to attack Off-Guardian. I love this site. This is why I comment here.
Maybe in the heat I overheard this “Luke, Luuuuke!” Or this “No patience the little Skywalker has!”

Carrie
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Carrie

No offence but I think it’s you who needs to relax, you have been pretty intense and full on

Joerg
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Joerg

@Carrie January 5, 2018 Carrie, Carrie! Don’t you think it is “pretty intense” to denounce and fall into the back of Julian Assange. A man who is refused liberty and whose life is reduced to some sqarefeet in an old house? Why did You not call this unjustified attack, supported not by facts, but only by some vage contamplations, against this most meritorious man “pretty intense” ?? Also Edward Snowden paid and paiys a high price for his graet and courageous attitute and he is in fact ‘expartiated’ against his will – probably for lifetime. Don’t you think it is… Read more »

uncle tungsten
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uncle tungsten

Thanks for publishing this offG. My view is that Tarpley is BS. There are a few serious errors in the piece especially the reference to the drone killing citizens. That was a total blooper and demonstrated Tarpley to be a hopeless researcher/communicator. I really enjoyed/groaned the comments and got heaps from the crits of VT and Sibel who has a certain unbelievability about her and the publication.

la Cariatide
Reader

has anyone something against Howard Zinn? tarpley writes about Howard Zinn who endorsed ellsberg’s limited hangout. perhaps Howard Zinn truly believed in the Pentagon Papers and other kind, perhaps Zinn had only been fooled by cointelpro-like.

tony0pmoc
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tony0pmoc

Admin, Please correct your date. Writing in the future causes all sorts of problems. This is what I tried to write a few hours ago. My computer has problems too. OffGuardian to my surprise seem to now have their doubts about both Julian Assange, and Ed Snowden. I have never posted there, but I do read it. Sometime within the last year, I think, there was a new, unpredicted news event, which almost demanded an almost immediate response from Julian Assange. I don’t remember the details, but all the news crews and TV cameras were waiting outside the Ecuadarian Embassy,… Read more »

la Cariatide
Reader

John A Robles is a political refugee in Russia. he says he has been a CIA target since 1995 has been in exile since then. John A Robles received political asylum from Russia in 2007.
he was a former journalist at Voice of Russia which became Sputnik.
he has a lot of files about many, many topics. many official documents.
http://jar2.com/index.html
do not hesitate to download and share the books he has gathered. http://jar2.com/Topics/Books.html
his son was put in jail years ago without any reasons. http://jar2.com/Blog/Nutshell.html
his file about snowden. http://www.jar2.com/Topics/Snowden.html

la Cariatide
Reader

John A Robles is a political refugee in Russia. he says he has been a CIA target since 1995 has been in exile since then. John A Robles received political asylum from Russia in 2007.
he was a former journalist at Voice of Russia which became Sputnik.
he has a lot of files about many, many topics. many official documents.
http://jar2.com/index.html
do not hesitate to download and share the books he has gathered.
his son was put in jail years ago without any reasons. http://jar2.com/Blog/Nutshell.html
his file about snowden. http://www.jar2.com/Topics/Snowden.html

la Cariatide
Reader

there is a doublon. you can delete that one.. sorry!! !!! !!!!!

mog
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mog

The Left blogger ‘Tarzie’ wrote a lot of critical posts about the whole Snowden/ Greenwald affair. Worth reading IMO. On Poitras: ‘As dissident artists hounded by state authorities go, Poitras seems unusually well-connected to the people and institutions that could make a crucial phone call on her behalf. Her parents are multimillionaires who, in 2007, donated $20 million to MIT (Jennings 2007). She is a recipient of MacArthur Foundation and Ford Foundation grants. Her patrons include Pierre Omidyar—who funds The Intercept, an online newsmagazine Poitras co-cofounded with Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill—and Jeffrey Skoll, whose Participant Media produced Citizenfour. Omidyar… Read more »

Arrby
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This concerns me: “She is a recipient of MacArthur Foundation and Ford Foundation grants. Her patrons include Pierre Omidyar…” Then again, I already no longer respect the celeb lefties willing to work with Nazi-enabler Omidyar. Folks can read the Pando Daily articles about Omidyar et al to get a good idea what he is all about. And the back and forth between Greenwald and Pando writers (Mark Ames and Paul Carr) is priceless.

Frank Poster
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Frank Poster

This article reads like it’s part of a carefully constructed disinfo campaign. It’s perhaps intended to even turn their supporters against them for when in 2018/19 the Ecuadoran embassy is stormed by May’s Ministry of Truth, or when Putin decides to exchange Snowden for a more valuable Russian rotting in a US jail.

Arrby
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There’s more sense in your four sentences than in the dozens and dozens of Tarpley’s.

Arrby
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Pardon, 2 sentences, four lines.

Carrie
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Carrie

This is the video in which Sibel Edmonds and James Corbett Putin-bash as if they were on CNN or FOX. Sibel then goes on to say she personally is aware of Putin’s billions. Are we supposed to buy that? How is Sibel getting more info than the NSA? They would love to be able to locate Putin’s stash and prove he’s corrupt (not saying he isn’t corrupt, just saying they have never been able to prove it). Sibel just can’t have this info as she claims. And why are she and Corbett doing the MSM’s work? She even calls Putin… Read more »

Arrby
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This is the first time I saw this. I find it more plausible than not. I had already concluded the same thing. And I frequently bring up the missing discussion, by those who want to idolize Putin, of victims of Putin’s pipeline projects. I’m met with only crickets. Obama was evil for many reasons, including his single-handedly reviving nuclear everything. Putin is doing the same thing and because it doesn’t help with leftwing narratives that pit righteous Putin against evil Trump (or whoever), it’s ignored. And here’s Putin selling weapons to ANYONE who will buy them, including fascist Modi Narendra.… Read more »

MoriartysLeftSock
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MoriartysLeftSock

Wow, this is quite a shocking video. I understand Corbett is hooked on his libertarian ideals and is driven by those to refuse to endorse any power structure (I think this seriously compromises his otherwise considerable abilities as an analyst), but what is Edmonds doing exactly? Under a thin guise of being ‘balanced’ she is absolutely selling the same slanted narrative we get from the MSM. 1) As the OP says she calls Putin a ‘scumbag’. I don’t recall her ever using this kind of language for Obama or Bush or ay other world leader, can anyone else? 2) She… Read more »

candideschmyles
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It is possible, likely even, that Sibel wished to distance herself from any percieved allignment with Russia or its information channels at the time she was launching Newsbud? Perhaps her vanity, she effervesces orgasmically when referred to as important, led her to think that just being the principle player of Newsbud would see her name propel Newsbud to the preeminent spot in the independent news scene? If Newsbud was going to be big, she may have mused, it needed to distance itself from any accusation of Russian influence. That would be a simple explanation for her stance without invoking deeper,… Read more »

MoriartysLeftSock
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MoriartysLeftSock

Interesting idea. So, Edmonds may have been imagining Newsbud as taking RT’s place as a go-to resource for non-mainstream news. I don’t see that happening. I think too many people have been put off by the way its primary focus from day one was raising money. I don’t like the vibe there at all. I find it chilling and a bit soulless. It’s completely monetised to the point you need to subscribe to access any articles or videos at all, yet they also, according to another commenter here, ask for donations and they have a kickstarter too! I can only… Read more »

Arrby
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“So, Edmonds may have been imagining Newsbud as taking RT’s place as a go-to resource for non-mainstream news.” More power to her, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. (I have my issues with RT, and they are the same as Sibel’s, but so far, I still like it better than major media elsewhere.) As well, “may” is nothing, Isn’t it? I found the reportage in the video to be a bit shrill. I think Sibel would have been more convincing had she been more balanced. I don’t want to see balance if it’s at the expense of truth,… Read more »

MoriartysLeftSock
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MoriartysLeftSock

Afterthought @candideschmyles – not sure your idea is a complete explanation. She could have distanced herself from Russia and RT without doing the MSM’s work for them, or turning on poor old PCR. That was nasty. The more I watch that segment of the video the more disturbing I find it.

candideschmyles
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I am certain of nothing. It is just the simplest explanation I can see as reasonable that provides a motivation for the content of that anomalous roundtable.
I totally agree with you that the constant in your face monetization is nauseating in the extreme and wholly unjustified given the enormous sums already raised on Kickstarter.
I too thought back to not long before Newsbud was announced and Sibel going AWOL in Turkey for about 6 weeks with next to no output produced subsequently. Then she announces Newsbud. Now she does Erdogans bidding in his fight with Gulan. Curious.

candideschmyles
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I remember this well and the backlash on Corbett’ s site was immediate and unrestrained. What especially surprised me was that they had collectively taken the decision in advance of the hangout. Neither again referred to that episode nor maintained an anti-Putin stance, but neither did they retract.

la Cariatide
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Admin
Reader
Admin

please stop trying to turn this into a witch hunt against anyone who has a shade of opinion in any way divergent from your own. This site is not interested in playing those games. If it’s all you have to contribute consider going elsewhere.

la Cariatide
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uh.. asking to you directly: do you still think in 2018 that database did 9/11? oh my..
how ridiculous to pretend to be able to identify cia limited hangout while being unable to speak about 9/11 false flag that let the usofa government to launch perpetual war bases on the non-existent ‘war on terror’!

Admin
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Admin

There are multiple threads in which 9/11 is discussed. You are free to comment on them, but this is not the place for an analysis of that event. Please don’t attempt to extend this any further.

Joerg
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Joerg

PART 2 3) Also Tarpley’s third argument, that we must be warned of Assange/Snowden because the MSM (those disgusting NYT, WaPo, Spiegel and others) picked up some revelations of them leads to nowhere! a) First of all: This the strategy of “limited hangout”, that Tarpley tries to convince us to fix it to Assange and Snowden, is the main MSM strategy: The strategy of lying to the people – but at the same time keeping them buying/seeing their articles/reports. And if something can not more be hidden successfully, the MSM will jump forward to publish this fact – or evidence… Read more »

Joerg
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Joerg

Last word:
I wish the British citizens would do more to free the brave Assange! Where are the massive demonstrations??!!
Instead of supporting Assange Off-Guardian prefers to smear him with this Tarpley article. Tarpley is a John McCain man! It is only, may be, two months ago that Tarpley praised John McCain. In three consecutive weekend audios on his blog. It is about, may be, two years ago that Tarpley praised himself as a well trained specialist in “COINTELPRO”!
So, now, where do you get this training in COINTELPRO?? This Tarpley article is nothing but a cointelpro piece!
To Assange see:
https://www.rt.com/uk/414442-assange-files-tribunal-maurizi/
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/04/julian-assange-wikileaks-arrest-friday-un-investigation

Catte
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Catte

Hey hey – steady on. We have done many articles in support of Assange and Wikileaks over the two years an ten months we have been in existence. But we aren’t about being partisan at the expense of the pursuit of truth, and we have always allowed contrary or contrasting opinions on here. Because narrow complacency is never good, no matter what ‘side’ it supports. That’s why we started this site. And – by the way – we took the time (a lot of time) to check out Tarpley’s numerous claims and add sources for them where we could. We… Read more »

Rhisiart Gwilym
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Rhisiart Gwilym

I endorse Catte’s comments fully.

la Cariatide
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Robert Parry’s false flag journalism is classic example of professionally engineered disinformation; utilizing method that attacks false narrative with alternative false narrative.
https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/11/18/poison-fruit-2/

Todd T Schlegel
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la Cariatide: The author of that piece (Robert Thomas West) conflates a bunch of high-level freemasons (like the Dulles brothers) and other high-level occultists (like the Skull and Bones Bush boys) with “Christians”. Those people are not “Christians” in any true sense of that word. Nor does being a member of, or giving lip service to, “Christendom” (Christendumb), count as being a Christian, in fact usually just the opposite. So regardless of the truth or falsity of his assertions re: Robert Parry, Robert Thomas West would do well to become better acquainted with the original Judeo-Christian scriptures and specifically with… Read more »

Admin
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Admin

Everyone who gets things wrong occasionally or who takes a different view is NOT disinformation.

Joerg
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Joerg
la Cariatide
Reader

i don’t know, some journalist are known as being subversive, to tackle the establishment, to denounce the war crimes, war in Iraq yet they are mute about the very day that started the non-existent ‘war on terror’ which is just another hegelian dialectic to achieve full spectrum dominance.
has robert parry ever spoken about 9/11 false flag? chomsky, assange, snowden, seymour hersch, chris hedges, john pilger are ‘good’ about our current orwellian times except for 9/11 false flag. strange?

Ronald Thomas West
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Parry doesn’t want to hear anything about Building 7, other than the official explanation (fire) and he’s never (to my knowledge) considered MH 17 brought down by a combat jet but has stuck with a variation of the discredited Buk missile scenario. Perhaps tellingly, Parry frequently cites unnamed sources but you never see the heat put on Parry and his sources like you see with, examples given, John Kirakou or James Risen (not that Riseen’s move to the Intercept is ideal.) My take is, if Parry were to actually be under the skin of those powers that be, the system… Read more »

la Cariatide
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about mh17 AND mh370? again VeteransToday 😉
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/07/17/mh17-was-really-mh370/

Ronald Thomas West
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VT committed suicide when Gordon Duff admitted pushing out false info:
https://archive.org/details/GordonDuff.FalseInformationControversy
Maybe this is the better assessment 😉
http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-who-shot-down-flight-mh17-in-ukraine/
^

la Cariatide
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lad, Gordon Duff explains why he publishes 40% disinfo! Gordon Duff ‘About 40% of what I write, is at least purposely, partially false, because if I didn’t write false information I wouldn’t be alive. I simply have to do that. I write…anything I write I write between the lines.’ the issue is that it is not plain clear bright the first time you get to Veterans Today. Gilad Atzmon publishes on Veterans Today. isn’t Gilad Atzmon someone legit? …except if he is/would be hasbara/sayanim. thanks for the unz’s article about mh17. still, the testimonies from local inhabitants are equivocal: what… Read more »

Ronald Thomas West
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Right, so Veteran’s Today hands out crystal balls to its information consumers so they can determine what is poison and what is clean, that’s how it works? (rhetorical question.) Meh. Sorry I wasted my time & ciao

la Cariatide
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i still don’t understand where Gordon Duff ‘committed suicide’ by admitting Veterans Today publishes 40% disinfo since he explains why he does that. actually you don’t even have to read that confession to know that some articles are far-fetched!
still, Veterans Today is trustworthy because they tell us ‘the truth’ about most of what happens right under our eyes. Syria, 9/11, TheDonald.
Gordon Duff published that: https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/10/30/how-trump-became-the-russian-mafias-bitch-2/

Joerg
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Joerg

PART 1 This Tarpley article above is itself a “limited hangout”! And I am shocked that it was published here. 1) When Tarpley cites Assange with these words: “I’m constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud“, Assange was nothing but perfectly right! What is this “false conspiracies“? It is the one and only ‘conspiracy-theory’ that exists to 9/11: It is that George W. Bush-Conspiracy-Theory (some Arabs meet in an Afghan Cave and conspire to bring down the US with kidnapped… Read more »

Carrie
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Carrie

Assange endorses the official explanation for 9/11. If you think he’s a truther you’re kidding yourself. He’s not. Ask him. Read everything he’s ever said about 9/11. You’re in denial.

writerroddis
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writerroddis

I share your doubts and concerns, Joerg, but am not shocked that Tarpley’s piece is reproduced here. It comes accompanied with health warnings and I do not expect to agree with everything I read on this (still!) excellent site.

Admin
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Admin

@joerg We’d like to invite you to turn this comment into a rebuttal of the Tarpley article, which we’d be more than happy to host here.

Joerg
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Joerg

@admin Please do so (I woundn’t know how). and please add my following anwer to @writerroddis, too. @@writerroddis Yes, this is an excellent site. And this is why I like to comment here. But the editors of this site made a mistake to publish Tarpley’s article here. Why didn’t they inform themselves about Tarpley before? You can easily listen to his weekend-audios on his site (tarpley.net). If You roll back to 2017 You will find his absurd hate speeches against Trump. Nobody likes Trump, who has a disgusting character and is indeed “a moron”. But Tarpley’s permanent prediction (in several… Read more »

Admin
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Admin

We can’t write the article for you! But if you’d like to gather your comments together into a more finished form we’ll be happy to publish.

Joerg
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Joerg

I just did and sent it to Your e-mail box via contact@off-guardian.org.

la Cariatide
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you know what? find that link, thanks.
Just some days ago I read of a retired former high ranked CIA man (don’t have the link anymore)

Ronald Thomas West
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I believe Tarply nails Ellsberg and Assange, but the jury is out on Snowden. A bit of self promotion here, as I have dabbled in the subject:
https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2016/08/05/pentagon-papers-cia-and-the-lies-of-daniel-ellsberg/
&
https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/01/08/agent-assange/
^

Todd T Schlegel
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Interesting materials. On an unrelated issue, see my response to la Cariatide’s posting of one of your other articles (re: Robert Parry) elsewhere today within these comments. My apologies for getting your first name wrong (Robert instead of the correct Ronald) in that other post.

Arrby
Reader

Edward Snowden only began to get politicized after his conscience moved him to leak info, which could also explain his willingness to allow the smooth Glenn Greenwald to manage everything the way they have. Nazi-enabler Omidyar was smart to corral celeb lefties like Greenwald. I am late coming to this and am reading it in a coffee shop, so will return to it later. I have my own issues with Newsbud (and they are sometimes those of others commenting here) and Corbett, whose smear job of Chomsky I have blogged about. (I do ‘not’ worship Chomsky and actually welcomed Corbett’s… Read more »