We’re returning to 9/11 this Sunday, partly because it’s still being debated BTL on our various 9/11 threads, and partly because – 9/11 matters, maybe more than any other single issue of the 21st century. What we are noticing is the same issues being raised again and again in comments and in emails we receive. Over and over we are told the government has explained what happened that day in NYC, that it was “the planes”, or “the fires”.
Repeatedly we are confronted by people who simply do not realise they have been conned – because the government has NOT explained what happened that day, nor has it even claimed to do so in scientific terms. What it has done, through its commissions and reports, is fudge and evade and elide on a scale so massive it’s hard to comprehend. It’s pulled a bait and switch on all of us. Claiming to offer proof and evidence and solid science, while in actuality it offers only guesswork, assumptions and weasel words.
With this in mind, we continue to recommend the new book 9/11 Unmasked for doing what NIST and the 911 Commission signally failed to do, in its scholarly presentation of the best evidence for what really happened that day.
As our readers may recall this book seemed to be going through some major availability issues on Amazon when it was first released (see also HERE). But our latest word from the authors and publishers last week is that it is shipping.
However we do note the shipping/availability dates continue to be delayed (Amazon.com is saying the book will be available “after October 16”, Amazon UK and Amazon.fr both say it “usually ships in 1-2 months”).
We understand the publishers have suggested this apparently strange situation may simply be due to high demand and stocks running out very quickly. We hope this is indeed the case!
As before, do please send us your experiences of trying to obtain this book through Amazon, whether successful or not!
You can also obtain it directly from the publisher HERE.
On a related note, we’re happy to say that, with the kind assistance of Graeme MacQueen, Kevin Ryan and others prominent in the 9/11 truth movement we’re going to be adding a 9/11 resources page on OffG in the next few weeks, which we hope will help our readers get information on the key issues surrounding the events of September 11, and avoid the endless and distracting diversionary pseudo-debates about long-debunked or irrelevant issues. Look out for our new section later this month.
In the meantime here is some Sunday viewing we think provide good information on some of the physics-related questions that have been discussed quite a lot BTL. We highly recommend exploring them when you have the time:
For direct-transfer bank details click here.
Wrt trying to find the book, I contacted Amazon to query their “Normally available in one or two months” statement. Their reply was suitably vague and blamed the supplier (aka the publisher) of the book for being unable to supply. I sent a message to Waterstones asking why the book was not in their catalogue – one week later still no reply. I searched Blackwells for the title – no luck. It appears to have disappeared. I visited the website of Interbooks, the publisher. Their cost for “shipping overseas” is $45 – just for the shipping! I challenged this and received a reply saying that “there is no cheap way to mail overseas”. Their ecommerce functionality is still disabled, btw. I asked them when they might make the book available in ebook format. They replied “not for about three months”
Thanks for letting us know. We’re passing all the comments about availability on to the authors
FOLLOW-UP to mine a few posts down – This just to let you and all other interested would-be readers that my copy of ‘9/11 Unmasked’ arrived yesterday from Amazon US not unreasonably priced and well ahead of schedule.
I’m posting this because I was, I think, not alone in smelling a rat or fish here, but am now happy to report that my suspicions appear to be unfounded.
The truth IS out there!…
I thought I’d post an update too:
I have now ordered a copy of “9/11 Unmasked” from Blackwells in Oxford and it is supposed to be arriving between next Thursday and Saturday (18th to 20th October), which tallies with the Amazon.com line on the stock coming in. The price was the regular £11.28 with £2.80 shipping (I’m in the UK). I’m assuming it being Blackwells, a very reputable bookseller, they won’t be wasting my time like the last two orders I made. I will post an update if and when it arrives.
Well done OffG again for keeping the heat on this issue.
My order with Blackwells was cancelled after one day with the nonsensical reason that “the supplier was out of stock and we require all out Marketplace sellers to maintain correct stock” (I’m paraphrasing). This makes no sense as the book was not described as in stock when I ordered it; they said it would be coming on Oct 14th and then delivered between the 15th and 18th.
This is the THIRD time I’ve ordered this book and had the order cancelled. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion Amazon.co.uk is trying to prevent people getting hold of this book.
About free speech……
STOP PRESS – ordered yesterday from Amazon US. SHIPPED moments ago to UK. About £18 in delivery.
Thanks Alan – good to know
Quote by Michael Rivero.
“Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”
May I say thank you to OffGuardian and to Catte for the truly outstanding coverage of 9/11 you have been offering. It’s so rare to see a site that is open to debate on these issues while also maintaining a high standard of discussion and general politeness.
Thanks also due to the contributors in the comments, for being both informed and tolerant
Long may it continue
Seconded. Their coverage has been high end since I started reading the site in 2016. There was a useful idiot called Jerome who used to frequent at that time, running from here to one of the “skeptics” forums to get ammo and back again. It was notable that none of his pals on that forum ever dared to venture here, though they did keep egging Jerome on to shove his dumb head over the parapet. He took a lot of damage, you can say that for him.
Its hard to imagine 9/11 happening if a culture of accountability existed following a long line of US atrocities, or if there was at least a MSM willing to expose the true motives of a political system in thrall to ‘full spectrum dominance’ (including expenditure of god knows how many trillions on military hardware).
The kind of asymmetrical power routinely exercised (ever since Hiroshima) has now become so common place, so run of the mill, that it has embedded itself as the normal state affairs in the minds of most western observers.
Take Viet Nam – America created a false flag for its entry into the conflict, employed chemical weapons, carpet bombed civilians and devastated neighbouring countries.
Was the chief architect of these abominations ever punished – no, he was awarded the nobel peace prize.
Not a single senior US figure has ever been brought to trial despite a wide range of international war crimes and it is this very lack of accountability allied to a neutered media that allowed them to up the ante with regard to events on 9/11.
The US of course has a well established pattern of sacrificing its working class in amoral wars of aggresion so as to feather the nest of the corpo-kleptocracy who orchestrate and benefit from them.
In the case of 9/11 there was a slight variation in that the attack took place on home soil rather than countries where racism is routinely employed to rationalise the slaugter of communities that pose absolutely no threat to America. But no doubt Cheney and the inner circle felt they needed greater emotional leverage to justify the armegeddon that was about unfold.
Apparently certain Marxists label these self-evident facts as ‘conspiracism’ but if they do they are just as much a part of the problem as fuckwits at the Guardian who wave their little plastic flags with each episode of carnage unleashed by the US, or when they start booing at the various evil deeds attributed to Russia, or any other country that does not let the US have its way.
It has been said multiple times here that greed is the real villain. With that thought in mind, the following film is a reminder of just how indifferent those with plundered fortunes are. I doubt they care what we think about 9/11. If we didn’t like it, i’m sure they will give us a better one next time They are actually quite generous,
The unavailability of the 9/11 book in question so far seems to be a repeat of what happened to “Journalists for Hire: How the CIA Buys the News” – by Dr. Udo Ulfkotte Ph.D. That book was a best seller in Germany, somehow took several years to get translated into English, and then its publication in the U.S. was postponed repeatedly. As of today it has NEVER been available in the U.S. to date. This is quite obviously a case of open censorship of material deemed unacceptable to Western power elites clinging to power through endless war and endless lies. Challenges to the official 9/11 story no doubt are seen in the same light. I quite agree with Catte that 9/11 it THE central issue – and we cannot afford to avoid or shy away from facing and dealing with. Over 2,000 Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth have debunked the official “conspiracy theory” in multiple peer reviewed journal published articles. You just won’t find those articles referenced in the New York Times, the WaPo, the Guardian or by BBC unless it is to demean them.
Just wanted to voice some endorsement for the work of Ryan Dawson. He makes no bones about a degree of disillusionment with regards the ‘9/11 Truth Movement’.
I have reluctantly come to agree with him : that there has been the same taboo in operation around the most obvious culprits of 9/11, as around many other subjects.
This is, ultimately why the truth has not emerged more widely, I would say.
Check his work if you haven’t already.
Telling the truth concerning 9/11 would be utterly ‘antisemitic’, don’t you know.
Mulga: “Telling the truth concerning 9/11 would be utterly ‘antisemitic’,…”
But only because that False Flag Atrocity has Anglo Zio Capitalist and Israeli fingerprints all over it.
“Being a friend of Israel is dangerous” — with apologies to Kissinger, who said, Being a friend of the U$A is dangerous. Those two rogue regimes deserve one another. But I pity their people.
As a case in point, Tom Secker (whose work I generally admire) recently wrote a summary of nine unanswered questions about 9/11.
Numerous conspiracy theorists have tried to build a case that global Jewry — sorry, I mean ‘Israel’ — were behind the attacks. This has invariably involved recycling the same three talking points about dancing Israelis, one Fox News special that for some reason they trust every word of, and complaining that ‘if you bring up Israel you get called an anti-semite’. As though categorising people on the basis of their attitudes and beliefs is fine the rest of the time, but when it comes to calling anti-semites by their proper name it’s somehow unfair.
This has overshadowed the much greater question of Saudi involvement or complicity in the attacks. After all, it was Saudi Arabia who spent billions of dollars in Afghanistan in the 1980s helping to turn the international jihad movement into a more cohesive, violent and extreme network of Islamist gangs. It was Saudi Arabia who spent hundreds of millions more in Bosnia in the early 1990s, helping spread this jihadi movement into Western society.
It was Saudi Arabia whose government agent Omar al Bayoumi ran a support network for al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar, the first hijackers to get into the US. It was Saudi Arabia where most of the hijackers originated, and where most of them got their visas to enter the US. Saudi Arabia is also home to most of the Bin Laden family, several members who whom flew out of the US and back to Saudi during the flight restrictions imposed after the 9/11 attacks. And it is Saudi Arabia whose involvement was covered up for years through the refusal to publish the notorious 28 pages.
But the five dancing guys were Israeli, so obviously Israel did 9/11..
Now if you have researched the Israeli and Saudi connections you will know that Secker grossly misrepresents the case made by Dawson, Barrett, Sebrovsky, Guyenot and Bollyn. The question is why?
It was the USA that spent billions of dollars in Afghanistan in the 1970s and 80s changing the government and boosting the drug trade. It was the USA that spent hundreds of millions more in the remains of Yugoslavia, running weapons and bombing people. Dov Zakheim was all over this. I’m not complaining about his attitudes, beliefs, religion, or genetic ancestry: it’s his actions that concern me.
No hijackers. No hijacked planes. No involvement by Osama x and ObL was not captured/ killed by a US Navy Seal team and given a ‘traditional’ burial at sea. It is reliably reported that he died in December 2001. All but one of the Navy Seals team died in a very suspicious helicopter crash soon after their ‘heroic’ mission.
It was reported recently that Bibi Netanyahu stated that he “knew 9/11 was ‘on’ as early as 1995”. These things are years in the planning. There is plenty of evidence, especially in USA, for the ‘predictive programming’ of 9/11 – for example in an episode of The Simpsons.
Re Israeli involvement, the “dancing Israelis” were not invented. Their white van was stopped and searched and found to contain explosives. They were identified as Mossad agents and flown back to Israel without being charged. On TV at home they claimed that there were in New York “to record the event”.
Not to forget that Bibi just happened to be in New York on 9/11 and in London on 7/7, where he warned not to leave his hotel before the planted bombs went off.
There is plenty of evidence, especially in USA, for the ‘predictive programming’ of 9/11 – for example in an episode of The Simpsons.
” There must be one single thing around which we can all rally. 9/11, like no other event, was an insult to our intelligence and a slap in our face. ”
I have every sympathy with, and much admiration for, the brave souls who persist in the search for truth in this matter.
However the population shocked out of apathy or conformism by the events on 9/11 and the subsequent political use of those events is not world wide and is declining as a new generation comes of age- a generation which, among other things, has never shared the delusions of ‘Generation X’ers that they lived in a democratic society in which the state worked, on the whole and despite corrupting interests, in the public interests.
That view of the world, in part a reaction to the noncomformists, the hippies and the anarcho-communists (the writer blushes) of the sixties was not the attitude of a society but of a small yuppiesque part of western european/creole culture.
For much of the world the official story of ‘9/11’ has extraordinarily inspiring sub-texts. It suggests that a few individuals, far from hegemonic western culture, on the margins politically, geographically and socially can parlay a few simple tools- box cutters, airline tickets, basic flying lessons- into a dramatic assault on a complacent military and cultural behemoth that sees itself as invulnerable and impotent.
The shock that was felt in polite circles in London, New York and Toronto took a very different form in the suqs of the Mahgreb, the megaslums of Africa and the refugee camps of the middle east, where, among the young in particular, high fives rather than tears were, in all likelihood, exchanged.
The ‘official story’ of 9/11 may be full of holes, may, on analysis be found to be impossible to credit but , underneath the eurocentric interpretation of the events as excuses for authoritarianism and xenophobia, (neither of which, by the way, was ever very far away pre 9/11 there is an archetypal myth of revenge, of worms turning, of rage against power succeeding, of the ability, in the final analysis, of the impotent to conquer the oppressor.
On the other hand, that mythology, the spontaneous product of a moment, passes away, as emotions fade, and is replaced by a sober understanding that the world is both more complex, in that the understanding of events requires considerable thought and research, and simpler, in that greed in all its myriad aspects explains everything, than we thought when we say the towers of Babylon engulfed in flames from above.
Just a head’s up – allegedly in razzle and dazzle of that bloke being elected in the US supreme court; the senate have overwhelmingly voted to release the 9/11 information; whether it get’s further, no-one knows.
Strangely enough there has been little information on this is the MSM.
This is from some Israeli rag. – https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/252774
This is ” stale attempt ‘ to influence all participating in the future mi-trials of Saudi Arabia in the USA. Do note the source of your own comment, Red Tick Alert !
We can’t afford to be naive here. Any “information” on 9/11 released through official channels has had a LOT of time to be microscopically examined for anything remotely resembling government complicity in the crime of the millennium. There’s no reason to imagine that the information which people like Snowden, Assange and Manning have gathered will ever come to light through those official channels. That’s why most of us here don’t get our news from the New York Times, the WaPo, the HuffPo, the BBC or from Sky.
Heck, they don’t even care whether we know the truth or not. They are the ones with the trillions of dollars to spare.
Are you suggesting that because this particular lie may be perceived positively by some it should be allowed to stand?
It is no stupid point that you raise. However…
My experience was one of seeing an opening (a small opening) at the beginning of the 90s when there was a sense of the need for urgent action to address the issues of poverty, conflict, environmental detruction etc. that you mention. Throughout that following decade there were two trends : one was the growing evasion and double standards of capitalist governments combined with a well marketed culture of denial; the other was a genuine groundswell of protest demanding radical change which enveloped the world and took the demand to the seat of globalised capitalist power structure.
Then 9/11 happened.
What I saw was the neutering of the latter movement and the growth of the former. Protest became criminalised, discourse on a number of subjects became hysterical and irrational, people just stopped thinking clearly and accepted the huge distraction of a false threat.
I have long held that there will be no serious approach to any of the issues that you list unless / until 9/11 is acknowledged for what it is. It is literally a spell that needs to be broken.
I get your sentiment, but wonder what would any genuine movement for change look like if not one that included a demand for truth and reconcilliation. The knot of cynicism that stops any genuine progeess can only be untangled by a heavy blow of truth.
Tried to buy direct from publisher. Got a notice that they are having problems with their e-commerce.
Just tried amazon.ca and got the message “Not in stock; order now and we’ll deliver when available”.
Anyone surprised? NSA/CIA in action…
It was most likely just a website glitch. They have experienced no problems previously as far as we know
Also trying to buy a batch of several copies from the publisher. So far, no response at all, after about ten days.
Interesting about Amazon “availability”… I purchased copies directly from the publisher and got them in days. Also, not sure if you have put out this link, but there is a website called architects and engineers for 9/11 truth that has been working on exposing this issue since 2011 and has brought a case in NY Federal Court on behalf of family survivors…www.ae911trhth.org
I just tried this link and got an error message that the site is not available. I just tried to purchase the book “9/11 Unmasked” directly onto my Kindle and got “0 titles found. You can do another search or go to storefront to browse for titles”. Is Amazon dragging their feet on this?
BTW I am in the Netherlands so maybe we’re not getting it yet over here.
Just tried to order the book using the authors’ names and found several titles by David Ray Griffin that look really good. A couple of them are about 9/11 but this particular title is absent.
I got the same error message. There are many other sights which display this message also. The following clip from Senator Susan Collins is set to the point where she says something relevant to our current dilemma.If this clip starts at the beginning for some reason, go forward to 40.47
TantieBuna, the Link to Architectn and Engineers for 911 Truth is operating now
Interesting new video, A Government Researcher Speaks Out. Had his eyes opened as late as June 2016, by a concerned colleague. Is now furious with the Bush regime for pulling the wool over his eyes. Despite his being a highly intelligent man. But now he is especially furious with himself for having been such a high IQ dupe.
“Be good, Sweet Maid, and let who will be clever.”
Stand for the Truth: A Government Researcher Speaks Out
Starvation, malnutrition, poverty, social inequality, global warming, mass extinctions, rule by psychopaths, media malfeasance ….….we could all go on and on. There is no end. There must be one single thing around which we can all rally. 9/11, like no other event, was an insult to our intelligence and a slap in our face. It is the single stand out event that clearly shows that we are thought to be stupid and irrelevant and will simply move on with other distractions. This hasn’t happened. The major difference with this event is that there are ethical, incorruptible and intelligent people who have given there all and won’t give up. Such people are rare. David Ray Griffin is one such person. This latest book may be too dry to inspire, but Griffin is fueling the spirit of truth and this is truly inspiring. More than anything else for our survival, we must have truth. None of our other problems can be resolved without it.
As I posted above – https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/252774
9/11, which is just a manifestation of Zionazi control of the West, the USA and the ‘Five Eyes’ in particular, must come second to anthropogenic climate destabilisation and the ecological collapse of the planet’s life support systems. The refusal of the ruling global psychopaths to cease destroying Life on Earth and continue pursuing neoplastic growth and the lust for wealth and power, instead, is the greatest ever crime and the greatest Evil possible to imagine.
It may come as a surprise to many that the AGW hoax is one of the major drivers behind the false flag terrorism.
Governments, including the UK, get their wrists slapped with so-called terrorism events, for dragging their feet on the AGW issue among many others …
For example, the Jo Cox script was predicated principally on the UK’s EU Referendum and also importantly, the Betrayal meme in that narrative referenced Michael Fallon’s “promise” to send substantial numbers of UK troops to the Russian borders. He reneged. Perfidious Albion.
The Sousse event involcing UK holidaymakers in Syria, was because the HoC initially voted against intervention.
The London Bridge theatrics carries the indelible signature of John Kerry, because UK Gov dragged it’s feet in Syria.
The 9/11 false Operation Northwoods nonsense from the NSA’s Michael Hayden, carries the name of old man William Boeing, who made his money in the Northwoods timber lands …
Now, you might be able to see why much of that early false flag terrorism involved aircraft.
The AGW hoax clearly requires the end of mass cheap air travel.
You been forgetting to take your medications, Mark?
When EVERY single National Academy of Sciences, and ALL the scientific societies on Earth, and 99% of actively publishing climate scientists all concur with the anthropogenic climate destabilisation theory, and the evidence from reality of rapid climate destabilisation eg the melting of montane glaciers, Arctic summer sea ice, permafrost, and the Greenland and Antarctic ice-caps, and a string of record global average temperatures (for just a small sample) is so very great, to still be decrying that grim reality as a ‘hoax’ is plainly, in my opinion, a sign of some deep mental, psychological an/or spiritual disease. One that apparently contemplates the extinction of most human and other higher Life on Earth as a matter of no importance.
Just a couple of points there Mulga.
 That’s not how science works. It’s not about consensus it’s about data. Makes no difference if 100% of scientists all agree about something, if the data doesn’t support it, it’s wrong.
 The claim of overwhelming consensus is inaccurate. Look at the weasel-words “actively published.” Sure, ok, but have you tried getting a paper published that questions the CAGW hypothesis? I’m not a climate scientist but I have friends who are and they can tell you it is very very difficult to get through the review process right now, no matter how scholarly your work is, if you in any way deviate from the IPCC approved narrative. This is because scientists are people too and subject to group think. Peer review is the best system, but sometimes it breaks down.
Again what matters is the data, not the opinions of scientists. Does the data reflect certainty? Does the data allow us to know manmade climate change is both real and likely to be catastrophic?
 Go behind the headlines and talk to any but a zealous few climate scientists.They will admit the uncertainties that get edited out of the public proclamations. Try it Mulga.
More “actively published” scientists claim to believe the WTCs collapsed due to fire than through controlled demolition. When Harrit et al published their paper on thermite only ONE outlet would take their work.
So, if you believe consensus dictates truth you have to believe the official story of 9/11 is the real one! And use that belief to shut down all dissenters!
I’m not paid by Exxon to write this, in case you ask. I’m not paid by anyone to write anything. I’m science-trained and I value data and the scientific method is all.
I concur with your penultimate paragraph. The official 9/11 explanation may not be perfect but it’s the most comprehensive offered so far, and that’s probably why it has consensus support.
May I ask if “PSJ” had anything to do with authoring the Harrit et al paper?
“May I ask if “PSJ” had anything to do with authoring the Harrit et al paper?”
You may, and no, I didn’t! But of course I disagree that the official explanation for 9/11 is “the most comprehensive so far.” It does not even try to address the major elements such as acceleration at free fall, the deformation and sulfidation of the steel and the documented presence of molten metal!
How can anyone describe omissions such as these as “comprehensive”?
Thanks for that clarification that you are not involved in the thermite paper. I too thought you may have been a certain high profile thermite proponent being quietly modest about your identity.
The molten metal claim is a scam to hide the presence of DEW technology. The “sulfidated” steel is a by product of that technology. If you have a science background why not check that out.
“DEW technology” is pretty vague. Can you specify which one you’re referring to, or better still, post an argument refuting the Thermate hypothesis?
Nonsense. The presence of molten metal is robustly supported both by eye witness testimony and physical evidence.
Those who believe DEWs were involved are required to show their data and explain why their model fits the observed effects better than that of nanothermite/RDX. Until they do there is nothing more to be said on that topic
The official 9/11 explanation may not be perfect but it’s the most comprehensive offered so far, and that’s probably why it has consensus support.
Your point 1 is typical hard Right idiocy. It certainly DOES matter that the VAST majority of uncorrupted climate scientists concur with the theory and the observations. Point 2 is a hard Right LIE. And the data most certainly does confirm the theory. And Point 3 is conspiracist Rightwing bulldust. An entire invention. I doubt that Exxon would pay you a penny-your fanatic Rightwing ideology, and detestation of environmentalism, and of future generations, is plain enough.
PSJ was perfectly polite to you. Try to return the favor and discuss the subject without recourse to dismissive ad hom. That goes for Mark Gobell too. Above all, please try to bear in mind people can have different opinions from yours without necessarily being liars, fools, right wing ideologues or “Zionazis”.
You have consistently shown, with your support of anthropogenic climate destabilisation denialists, that you are quite sanguine concerning the coming climate Holocaust. I rather prefer, finding it morally clearly superior, to treat those who peddle lies and disinformation regarding the greatest catastrophe ever to have threatened human existence, with the contempt they so truly deserve. Do you really think it redounds to this site’s credit that climate destabilisation denialists, of the most banal and odious kind, are made welcome here?
Please don’t multi-upvote your own comments in future
I DID NOT ‘multi up-vote’ my comments. Perhaps there are more readers of this site than your denialist allies and admirers.
You DID multi up-vote your comment.
Mulga has consistently shown that he thumbs up his own comments xx times while thumbing down those he doesn’t agree with xx times. He fiddles with “data” to get the pre-desired result.
The Graun blocked this cheating years ago. I hope Off-Guardian can find that software (cheaply!) too.
we’ve just done it as of this very hour
I have NEVER up-voted myself. And how would you know? I have multi down-voted, mostly one at a time, garbage like yours, at times.
And I TELL you-I DID NOT. Are you lying, or are you not in control of your own operation?
Wow. You’re presuming to know quite a lot about me and to use ad hominem arguments based on your assumptions in place of rational debate.
[1a] I’m not “hard Right” by any definition. I used be a Republican. Not now. I support most environmental initiatives, especially clean energy, and have devoted many years to what they call “LENR” research, which you can look up if interested.
[1b] Consensus is simply NOT what science is about. Science is about data. When the consensus among scientists was that ball lightening did not exist this did not change the fact that it did (and does). The consensus was simply wrong and in defiance of the data.
 It’s not a lie. The claims of overwhelming consensus have been investigated and found to be manipulated. Check it out. The data is there if you want to read it.
 “bulldust” takes me back to my childhood and a Sunday school teacher who used to use that euphemism all the time. I took a lot of time trying to figure why bulls would be notable for producing dust. I was about 11 before I figured it out.
But I’m glad you don’t subscribe to the idea everyone who doesn’t accept the claims of manmade global warming without demur is paid by Exxon. You’re correct. It’s an absurd reductionism. And no, they certainly would not think it worthwhile to pay me.
Consider writing an article about the reasons for scepticism of AGW, and how discussion of such is suppressed, with internet references which can be checked, and submit it for publication on this website.
Just want to add a quick addendum:
I doubt many of the informed “skeptics” about manmade climate change would assert there was NO human involvement in current climate. Increase in CO2 may well be forcing the warming we saw in the late 20th C and human beings may well be responsible for that.
What most climate “skeptics” question is
[a] the lack of public acknowledgement of the (privately acknowledged) manifold uncertainties and gaps in our understanding of how climate works that make any certitudes about the extent of our involvement premature at best.
[b] the unscientific suppression of data that does not fit the model
[c] the manipulation of data that’s permitted to be seen.
[d] the completely unwarranted assumption that any such manmade warming would be catastrophic, which is based SOLELY on untested and unverified assumptions about the nature of climate forcing and the absence of regulators, even though all the pre-hsitoric data available indicates the opposite to be true.
That at least is my perception of the climate skeptics, particularly those in the scientific community, I have spoken to
Your a) is, as usual, simply wrong. We know much more about how the climate works than ever, and certainly enough to accurately predict our fate. And those predictions ARE COMING TRUE, as the observations show. In the context of the greatest threat to human existence ever, that makes the denialists’ fraudulent demands for more ‘certainty’, morally insane and wicked. Point b) is simply, yet again, a LIE. There has been NO ‘suppression’ of ANY science that would disprove the theory. Point c) is another untruth. The data has not been ‘manipulated’, save by the political process of the IPCC Reports, where interference by rogue regimes like Saudi Arabia and Austfailure has guaranteed that the Reports have consistently downplayed the seriousness of the situation. And d) is a doozy of a Big Lie. In fact the science, including recent studies of ‘climate sensitivity’ to increased atmospheric greenhouse gas levels, which show a higher sensitivity than previously thought, and paleo-climate studies that show massive climate destabilisation in the past at the same levels of greenhouse gas concentrations, realised at far slower rates of increase, such as the PETM, does predict catastrophe. Climate ‘sceptics’, whose die-hard ideological rejection of the science is the antithesis of real scepticism, are a tiny cabal of hard Right ideologues, graduates of the tobacco harm denial industry, and outright shills on the fossil fuel industry pay-roll. They are outnumbered one thousands to one, among climate scientists, by those who support the theory.
Your attachment to the AGW hoax is noted.
“When EVERY single National Academy of Sciences, and ALL the scientific societies on Earth, and 99% of actively publishing climate scientists all concur with the anthropogenic climate destabilisation theory, and the evidence from reality of rapid climate destabilisation eg the melting of montane glaciers, Arctic summer sea ice, permafrost, and the Greenland and Antarctic ice-caps, and a string of record global average temperatures (for just a small sample) is so very great, to still be decrying that grim reality as a ‘hoax’ is plainly, in my opinion, a sign of some deep mental, psychological an/or spiritual disease.”
Or, alternatively …
When EVERY single National Academy of Sciences, and ALL the scientific societies on Earth, and 99% of actively publishing scientists all concur with the 9/11 Commission Report that buildings can just fall into the path of most resistance and disintegrate into dust because of low temperature hydrocarbon fires and gravity … to still be decrying that grim reality as a ‘hoax’ is plainly, in my opinion, a sign of some deep mental, psychological and / or spiritual disease.
The idea that normal human activity is causing “climate change” is unproven. It remains a theory.
The fact that some folk, for unknown reasons, try to persuade others that they have sufficient understanding of extremely complex climate science is just laughable.
What qualifies you for example to issue forth with such confidence ?
Pray tell the world what it is that qualifies you to pronounce with such breathless arrogance, that you know what you are talking about ?
So far it appears that you are just locked into the appeal to so-called “authority”, such as it is…
I’m not interested in you regurgitating the prose of others, just tell the world straight and unequivocally, what qualifications you have in the field to enable you to be so confident of your position ?
When you have done that, perhaps you could also tell us about your psychological experience, given that you are so obviously able to spot signs of some deep mental, psychological and / or spiritual disease.
Quite why you are so compelled to be so insulting is a bit of a mystery.
Quite why you, and other denialists, are compelled to lie, misrepresent and distort in order to prevent humanity from avoiding auto-genocide is the real question that needs to be answered. The combination of arrogance and stupidity with ideological fanaticism is particularly pernicious at all times, but when it is being mobilised to destroy humanity it becomes simply diabolical.
I don’t think you need to be a scientist to accept that man made activity contributes to climate change. Stands to reason I think, and if some feel more passionately about it than others, power to them 🙂
This site, and ‘Admin’ in particular, ARE hard-core anthropogenic climate destabilisation denialists. There is no getting around it. And in the context of the greatest ever threat to human existence, that is, in my firm opinion, despicable. Just why they do this, is beyond me. Some mixture of arrogance, ignorance and paranoia I imagine.
Admin is a function not an individual! Several people use the Admin ID. None of us are “deniers”. You seem unhinged. Calm down
Glad to know that the multiple up and down voting situation is under control. I am also guilty of this. Sometimes, not remembering if I had already voted.Sometimes remembering quite well. Also wondering if multiple votes are really registered at the other end. This has been a curious feature of this site.
EVERY comment regarding anthropogenic climate destabilisation that I have seen under the title ‘Admin’, has supported the mendacious, anti-scientific and omnicidal denialist position.
‘it matters more than any other single issue’ ?
You’ve got to be kidding Catte.
Starvation, malnutrition, poverty, social inequality, global warming, mass extinctions, rule by psychopaths, media malfeasance, the MIC, just to name a few.
Truth and Justice on these ‘issues’ should come first.
No, FD, I’m not kidding. The events of 9/11 have been the “catalyst” for the current wars in the ME, the rise of al Qaeda and ISIS, the assault on Russia, the erosion of free speech throughout the western world, the rise of liberal-fascism, the destruction of the US constitution – and more.
Millions are dead who would not have died if not for the events of that day, millions more are suffering physical or psychological privation as a direct or indirect result.
And as we gradually lose our rights to speak out we can’t protest the other injustices.
I think that makes 9/11 easily the most significant single issue of our time. It has completely changed the world we live in. And it’s important we don’t forget that.
‘it matters more than any other single issue’ ? You’ve got to be kidding Catte.
NO, she’s not kidding. The 9/11 False Flag opened the gates of Hell to many in the ME and parts of Africa. Millions killed, millions more wounded, tens of millions fleeing for their lives with nothing but what they were wearing to escape some US made and delivered Hellfire missile.
9/11 has been used as an excuse to take away our freedoms, under the guise of protecting our liberty.
The Pentagon’s budget has increased by about 300% and looks like there’s no stopping the upward trajectory.
Afghanistan has been under the US & NATO occupation, now entering its 18th year. The world’s most powerful military is supposedly unable to defeat a bunch of rag-tag Afghan guerillas? BS. The Pentagon isn’t there to safeguard against some phony al Qaeda emerging, it’s there to protect those CIA poppy fields, with those TBTF Wall Street casinos making hundreds of billions laundering the illegal profits. At the same time, opioid addiction and death from the same has soared around the world.
And give the Pentagon bases from which they can harass or even attack Russia, Iran and China.
I could go on, but you get my drift.
Catte is right and may she continue her brave stance and not be intimidated–or worse–into keeping quiet about this 9/11 madness.
9/11 is hugely important, and might lead to human extinction through US/Zionazi aggression, but the ecological collapse of the planet’s life support system will inevitably do so if unaddressed, and the Right, the focus of Evil on Earth, utterly refuse to even acknowledge the reality of anthropogenic climate destabilisation, let alone the rest of the ecological crises.
To quote the Donald Sutherland character in ‘JFK’ – ‘Don’t ask who…ask why’.
The ‘catalyst’ was, and always will be, greed.
It was a perverse plague on the 10th of September 2001, and has been ever since.
The hungry, sick and forgotten people are not interested in 911 exposes.
Global warming will not be ameliorated by your quest for truth.
No living species will be saved from extinction by the ‘unmasking’ of 911.
Save your energy for more tangible causes Catte.
There must be a realization that we can only go forward once we accept the wrongs of yesterday.Unless one believe the story line given by the US etc.then it it becomes more like “nothing to see here folks ,move along.” There are many injustices in this world to be sure but IMHO we must focus on the big picture ,i.e. what are the main causes of these injustices .The lies and dishonesty we are being told and subjected to is good starting point and all encompassing to be sure.
The root cause of all our problems, and the reason that we face extinction through ecological collapse or thermo-nuclear war in the next few decades is the global dominance of what is euphemistically called ‘the Right’, ie the insatiably greedy, violent, misanthropic, psychopaths.
Behind this ‘root cause’ is an abuse of truth.
Greed in itself has no power unless propelled by the wings of deception.
And just imagine if, IF it’s true that “israel” was part of this attack on the US, if Americans knew, this might be enough to bring justice to Palestine and peace to West Asia. And it could be disastrous for both “israelis” and Jews. It’s a big deal.
I have been struggling with this concept of ‘liberal fascism’ for some time now. I have found that you can critique neoliberalism and neoconservatism and people accept it but as soon as you criticise ‘liberalism’ as such they – feel its a personal attack and react very badly. I would think of myself as being fairly liberal in that I believe in freedom of speech, civil liberties, a free and open media and a general diversity of political views that arise from all of our unique experiences and social and historical contexts. Liberalism at its core, should always be a categorical imperative for the acceptance and tolerance of ‘otherness’ to our own ideas which grow out of our own peculiar contexts. I think the problem here is that we are tempted to refer to ‘progressives’ as being somehow ‘liberal’ and ‘moderate’ because that’s what they keep suggesting that they are and they try and associate themselves with liberalism and the sophistication and the civilized notions of a balanced liberal politics which listens to all sides and fairly tries to think and adjudicate between and among competing ideas.
I think we need to forge some important distinctions here. The neoliberal/neoconservative enemy here are not ‘liberals’ as such but rather extremist ‘progressive’ fundamentalists who try and portray themselves as ‘liberal moderates’ when in reality they are usually sociopathic, self promoting, up-vote seeking, imperialist, dogmatic zealots and control freaks who are anything but liberal or moderate. Tony Blair with all these traits and a Messiah complex to boot – would be a particularly good example of someone who consistently portrays himself as such a fake liberal and moderate construct. In their and the MSM’s reactions to contexts as diverse as Donald Trump, Assad, Putin and Jeremy Corbyn these progressives police the mainstream and social media in packs with a witch-hunting McCarthyistic approach. They wear masks, beat up and intimidate their opposition and issues death threats to anyone who dares to suggest that Serena Williams might have been out of order during a tennis match. This is not liberalism and its not moderate behaviour. It is the behaviour of extremist, progressive fundamentalists who are every bit, if not more dangerous than Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Any action is justified by the self certified ‘sanctification’ of their ends. This is the familiar logic of all totalitarian modes of ‘progressive’ thought all of which are united in their will to exterminate and eliminate any thinking ‘other’ to their own. These people and not liberals and they are not moderates and we urgently need to stop thinking that they are. Even today Trump is saying that his democrat critics are ‘left’ wing. They are not. They are uniformly committed neoliberals and neoconservatives. Such politics traditionally have nothing to do with socialism.
How did all of this come about? These people take the philosophy of liberal humanism and take their own particular ‘progressive’ enlightenment – which has evolved in very specific historical and cultural contexts – and take it to be universally available to everyone, anywhere in the world by a process of ‘Anglopomorphism’ by which they project the ‘progressive’ version of themselves as being what everyone everywhere must obviously aspire to – regardless of the rich contexts of the histories, religions and specific cultures etc of the designated ‘Other’ in all their ‘Otherness’. These foreign and alien cultures and contexts are qualitatively different or other than the western ‘progressive’ mind and context. It seems to me to be a mistake to assume that the self evident ‘truths’ of Western ‘progressive’ rationalism are directly available to the differing and deferring contexts of foreign cultures, any more than imperialistically believing that those people should be militarily forced and educated to reject their own local music in order to rationally appreciate the enlightened and culturally superior ‘sounds’ of classical music or even thrash metal, grunge or whatever happens to be on the progressive’s musical or politically correct playlists of the month. If the progressive mind aspires to driving a BMW and jetting off on 3 or 4 highly polluting holidays every year, and to go through the meaningless motions of representative democracy by exercising their franchise once every 5 years then they reason that this must be something that everyone globally aspires to. This is nothing other than western neoliberal capitalism’s knighting of itself as obviously the best of all possible economic and social, post industrial consumer worlds. Since the fall of communism it just stands to ‘progressive’ reason doesn’t it? No-one in their right mind would elect a socialist government so therefore when any socialist government is elected anywhere in the world then that election must have been rigged must it not? These are the default logics regularly in play now.
This assumption of the universal availability of the ‘progressive’ mind as being a purely rationally available construct beyond its evolution in very specific Western contexts – allows the ‘progressive’ collective mind to aspire to becoming a totalitarian imperialist force intent on global dissemination and domination that seeks to eradicate any views ‘other’ than its own. This totalitarian intolerance of otherness is a very different political beast from the traditional moderate live and let live liberalism which might not necessarily embrace and endorse all ‘otherness’ as such – but is certainly prepared to tolerate and make space for differences of opinion, cultures and contexts. The universalization of the ‘progressive’ mind – which does not question the flawed assumptions of neoliberal economics or neoconservative foreign policy – effectively allowed those global deep state forces to co-opt the ‘progressive’ and by implication also the traditionally ‘liberal’ corpus into supporting their dark agenda and momentum which is most obviously outlined in the Project for the New American century.
I realize I have said far too much already in this cramped context. I have more to say, especially on the centrality of the fall of communism as being even more important than 9/11 in all of this, but this is probably not the time or place. If you wish to discuss such ideas I would be happy to communicate. One thing needs constant repetition for us to differentiate ‘progressives’ from liberals. Progressive fundamentalists are not liberal and they are not moderates. They are imperialist, totalitarian extremists.
What exactly does this have to do with 9/11?
That all depends on what your understanding of 9/11 is and its significance in political history. I suggest that it is linked to the fall of communism but do not explain that assertion to people who do not care. Why bother reading it in the first place?
Also it should be noted that this was a very personal reply to Catte concerning the problematic notion of ‘Liberal Fascism’ and not 9/11 specifically. But thank you for taking the neocon trouble to police all private correspondences.
You were not welcome nor shall you ever be.
It wasn’t a private message Simon, it was on a comment thread. If you’d like to message Catte privately you’re welcome to do so. However this discussion isn’t fruitful so shall we close it and move on?
If I knew how to message Catte that might be useful and I might have done that from the start.
Her email is on the website – [email protected] – but please don’t prolong this OT convo any longer, ok
“However this discussion isn’t fruitful so shall we close it and move on?” How very totalitarian of you.
I have no idea as a newbie and obviously idiot in your view as to what “please don’t prolong this OT convo any longer, ok” actually means.
You’re welcome to discuss the articles here or related topics but not more off-topic quarrelling with either the admin staff or other commenters. Don’t reply to this.
The events of 9/11 have been the “catalyst” for the current wars in the ME, the rise of al Qaeda and ISIS, the assault on Russia, the erosion of free speech throughout the western world, the rise of liberal-fascism, the destruction of the US constitution – and more.
from the horse’s mouth:
Social justice issues, environmental issue… yes, all hugely important. But all our governments have used 9/11 to give priority to the ongoing Global War on Terror, a priority which gives justification to military invasion, enrichment of military contractors, mercenary army scams (ie al-Qaeda and DAESH) police state/surveillance state invasions of citizens rights, torture, rendition, etc etc etc. The rule by psychopaths is guaranteed as long as those who designed and implemented and continue to carry out the ongoing crime through a vast media cover-up are kept in power. The only way to oppose the empire of illusion and lies about just about everything these days is to insist on getting to the bottom of the biggest most enabling lie of them all and to insist on holding the culprits legally accountable. Personally one of the most ruthless features of the defence of an audaciously specious account of what happened on 9/11– of who did what to whom and why– is the quite purposeful message it sends that right thinking people are supposed to hate and fear Muslims. Now who would thing they derive benefits from such a lurid psychological operation?
Indeed .Well said .
Yes, thank you OffG, for standing firm with the truth while the Official Coverup crumbles away.
Thank you Off Guardian.