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Could the Covid19 Response be More Deadly than the Virus? The economic, social and public health consequences of these measures could claim millions of victims

Kevin Ryan

The initial, alarming estimates of deaths from the virus COVID-19 were that as many as 2.2 million people would die in the United States. This number is comparable to the annual US death rate of around 3 million. Fortunately, correction of some simple errors in overestimation has begun to dramatically reduce the virus mortality claims.

The most recent estimate from “the leading US authority on the COVID-19 pandemic” suggests that the US may see between 100,000 and 200,000 deaths from COVID-19, with the final tally likely to be somewhere in the middle.” This means that we are expecting around 150,000 US deaths caused by the virus, if the latest estimates hold up.

How does that compare to the effects of the measures taken in response? By all accounts, the impact of the response will be great, far-reaching, and long-lasting.

To better assess the difference we might ask, how many people will die as a result of the response to COVID-19? Although a comprehensive analysis is needed from those experienced with modeling mortality rates, we can begin to estimate by examining existing research and comparative statistics. Let’s start by looking at three critical areas of impact: suicide and drug abuse, lack of medical treatment or coverage, and poverty and food access.

Suicides and Drug Abuse

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, over 48,000 suicides occurred in the US in 2018. This equates to an annual rate of about 14 suicides per 100,000 people. As expected, suicides increase substantially during times of economic depression. For example, as a result of the 2008 recession there was an approximate 25% increase. Similarly, during a peak year of the Great Depression, in 1932, the rate rose to 17 suicides per 100,000 people.

Recent research ties high suicide rates “to the unraveling of the social fabric” that happens when societal breakdowns occur. People become despondent over economic hardship, the loss of social structures, loneliness, and related factors.

There is probably no greater example of these kinds of losses than what we are experiencing today with the extreme response to COVID-19 and the effects will be felt for many years. The social structures might return in a few months but the economy will not.

Some think that the economy will recover in three years and others think it will never recover in terms of impact to low-income households, as was the case for the 2008 recession. However, if we estimate a full recovery in six years, the effects will contribute around 3 suicides per 100,000 people every year during that time for a total of over 59,000 deaths in the United States.

Related to suicides are drug abuse deaths. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, over 67,000 deaths from overdose of illicit or prescription drugs occurred in 2018. This does not include alcohol abuse. Only 7% were suicides and 87% were known to be unintentional deaths largely due to drug abuse caused by depression or other mental conditions. Such conditions can be expected to rise during times of economic collapse and if we estimate the impact due to COVID-19 over six years as being a 25% increase (as with suicides) that projects about 87,000 additional deaths due to drug abuse.

Lack of Medical Coverage or Treatment

Unemployment is expected to rise dramatically as a result of the COVID-19 response and the effect is already being seen in jobless claims. One of the major impacts of unemployment, apart from depression and poverty, is a lack of medical coverage.

A Harvard study found nearly 45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage. That was at the pre-COVID-19 unemployment rate of 4%.

As reported recently, millions of Americans are losing their jobs in the COVID-19 recession/depression. For every 2% increase in unemployment, there are about 3.5 million lost jobs.

The US Secretary of Treasury has predicted a 20% unemployment level, which translates to 12 million lost jobs. If the 45,000 excess deaths due to lack of medical coverage increases uniformly by unemployment rate, we can expect about 225,000 deaths annually due to lack of medical coverage in the US at 20% unemployment. Extrapolating this over a 6-year period would mean 1.35 million deaths.

This assumes that funding for important health-related programs are not further cut or ignored, a bad assumption that means the estimate is probably low.

Beyond lack of coverage, medical services are being reprioritized to respond preferentially to COVID-19, causing less resources to be available for treatment of other medical conditions. The capacity of medical service providers has already been significantly impacted by the COVID-19 response in some areas.

Additionally, clinical trials and drug development are expected to be severely impacted. This means that important new medicines will not reach the market and people will die who otherwise would have lived. There is not yet enough information on the overall impact to medical service provision therefore we will not include an estimate.

Poverty and Food Access

The Columbia University School of Public Health studied the effects of poverty on death rates. The investigators found that 4.5% of US deaths were attributable to poverty. That’s about 130,000 deaths annually.

How will this be affected by COVID-19? One way to begin estimating is to consider how the number of people living in poverty will increase.

Before the COVID-19 response, approximately 12% of Americans lived below the officially defined poverty line. That percentage will undoubtedly rise significantly due to the expected increase in unemployment. If unemployment rises to 20% (from 4%) as predicted, the number of people living in poverty could easily double. If that is the extent of the effect, we will see another 130,000 deaths per year from general poverty.

Although deaths due to poverty are not entirely about food access, it is a significant factor in that category. In times of economic hardship many people can’t afford good food, causing malnutrition and, in some cases, starvation. People also can’t access food causing the same outcomes. Limited access to nutritious food is a root cause of diet-related diseases, including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and infant mortality issues. A recent estimate suggests 20% of all deaths worldwide are linked to poor diets.

Food access issues will be further exacerbated with the COVID-19 problem due to the anticipated issues with food production and prices. If the COVID-19 response lasts for years as expected, our estimate will need to be a multiple of the 130,000 annual figure. Using the 6-year estimate, we get 780,000 deaths.

Conclusion

The total deaths attributable to the COVID-19 response, from just this limited examination, are estimated to be:

  • Suicides 59,000
  • Drug abuse 87,000
  • Lack of medical coverage or treatment 1,350,000
  • Poverty and food access 780,000

These estimates, totaling more than two million deaths above the estimated 150,000 expected from the virus itself, do not include other predictable issues with the COVID-19 response. An example is the lack of medical services as stated above. Other examples include the EPA’s suspension of environmental regulations. It has been estimated that the EPA’s Clean Air Act alone has saved 230,000 lives each year.

Moreover, the anticipated failure of the US Postal Service (USPS) will lead to more illness and death. The USPS “delivers about 1 million lifesaving medications each year and serves as the only delivery link to Americans living in rural areas.”

Even using these low estimates, however, we can see that the response will be much worse than the virus. The social devastation and economic scarring could last more than six years, with one expert predicting that it will be “long-lasting and calamitous.”

That expert has noted that he is not overly concerned with the virus itself because “as much as 99 percent of active cases [of COVID-19] in the general population are ‘mild’ and do not require specific medical treatment.”

Yet he is deeply concerned about the “the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life.” He suggests a better alternative is to focus only on those most susceptible to the virus. Others have reasonably suggested that only those who are known to be infected should self-quarantine.

Some public health professionals have been pleading with authorities to consider the implications of the unreasonable response. Many experts have spoken out publicly, criticizing the overreaction to COVID-19. A professor of medical microbiology, for example, has written an open letter to German Chancellor Merkel in an attempt to draw attention to the concerns.

The real problem we face today is not a virus. The greater problem is that people have failed to engage in critical thinking due to the fear promoted by some media and government officials. Fear is the mind killer, as author Frank Herbert once wrote. Ultimately, the fear of COVID-19 and the lack of critical thinking that has arisen from it are likely to cause far more deaths than the virus itself.

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Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Apr 2, 2020 1:04 PM

Users may notice that some erroneous, anachronous comments are appearing Below The Line, for example from older pieces way back in 2018. The cause is unknown at present, and we are looking into it as I write.

Conversation can continue, but please pay particular attention to COMMENT DATES before replying. We appreciate this may be confusing, and hopefully it will be fixed very soon.

Thank you. Admin

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 1:29 PM
Reply to  Admin2

at the same time as you are investigating this issue, can you also look into the long-standing problem wherein embedded Youtube videos are swapped around, after being posted?

if you look through the archives, you will find many people complaining about this problem.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 2, 2020 1:32 PM
Reply to  milosevic

That’s a browser cacheing issue. The correct video is actually there and embedded, but your browser will swap it out for whatever is in your cache as recently watched. The best thing to do is empty your browser cache, clear history and the right video should show up.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 3:22 PM
Reply to  Admin1

that doesn’t make any sense. the webbrowser won’t substitute one URL with a completely different one, just because it has it cached.
there must be some kind of programming bug, either on the webserver or in the client-side Javascript.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 2:45 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Milo, when you view a YouTube video on Off-Guardian it’s as if you’re viewing it in your browser so if you click the video it will move onto another one after it’s finished. There is no problem with YouTube videos. I’ve tested it.

khursheed
khursheed
Apr 7, 2020 7:35 PM

its amazing how world politicians can be so dumb or evil, whichever way u see it… n the large pharma n other vested int. organisations so greedy as to harm the public who if not brainwashed , often dont have the means or desire to even speak up … but reporters like u make it possible to have more faith that there are ethical people still who care about real health, n the truth in this already collapsing world…’this is a wake up call to more to look at the spiritual aspect of human existence and follow ones instincts in who to trust and who not…thanks for writing a great article n spreading the info..

Penelope
Penelope
Apr 5, 2020 7:09 AM

Doctor cited on Ice Age Now says he’s able to resolve shortness of breath from the virus in 4-6 hours with Hydroxychloroquine + azithromyocin (Z-pak) + zinc sulfate. He says 100% success rate.
https://www.iceagenow.info/doctor-reports-100-percent-success-rate-treating-coronavirus-patients/
Dr. Vladimir Zelenko in NY.

Break The Spell!
Break The Spell!
Apr 3, 2020 7:09 AM

Humanity is enslaved.

Individuals are not born as slaves, they are born free.

They are born in freedom, but as I look around, they are found to be in chains everywhere.

People living in chains, people dying in chains.

This is the greatest calamity that has happened to humanity.

Now it seems, in the name of ‘saving’ all their slaves from the corona virus, which mostly seems to be killing all the elderly with pre-existing health issues.

We have become passive victims in a far more sinister agenda, a long planned full global financial collapse, leading to the removal of all wealth, health, freedom and the well being of most of the planets inhabitants.

It is a very insane kind of society that we have created in thousands of years.

Its insanity has come now to a high peak, there is no going back.

We are indeed sitting on a volcano which can explode any moment.

What will you do when you realize in the coming days after the internet is turned off, the banks have collapsed, and you are confined to your home, and there is full martial law in place in your country, with the military barking commands at you to obey their authority or be taken away to be dealt with?

They are already fully prepared expecting your anger, awaiting your violent reactions.

At what point did the Jews realize they were going to be fully exterminated by the Nazis?

The more intelligent Jews saw the writing on the wall in the 1930’s and fled to safer countries, others began to really realize it after they were rounded up and were dragged from their homes and forcibly loaded into rail cattle trucks.

But others still didn’t fully realize it until it was too late until they were stripped naked and forced into to the shower blocks at the concentration camps which instead gassed them all.

At what point will you come to realize the full treachery of your politicians, banksters, and your bloated corporate oligarch masters, who really control all power on this planet, and who are not in the slightest concerned at all what happens to humanity.

Their only concern is whether power remains in their hands or not.

Moments come in history when a small group of psychopathic people, cunning, clever but with absolute evil intentions start exploiting the whole society.

All the money goes on gathering on one side and all the poverty and starvation on the other.

Naturally this state cannot be continued forever.

Sooner or later those who have nothing are going to overthrow those who have all.

That time is now.

We cannot waste another second!

I say unto you that my word for those who are intelligent enough in this moment, is Rebellion.

Rebellion, a very silent phenomenon that will go on spreading at full speed, without making any noise and without even leaving any footprints behind.

It will move from heart to heart in deep silences, until it has reached to billions of people without any bloodshed.

Just the understanding of those billions of people will change all our old primitive animalistic ways.

We have to use our massive numbers to swiftly overwhelm and outmaneuver the plans of these criminals, the oligarchs, the politicians, the banksters and all the corporate fascists.

We have to treat them as the disease that they are, remove them all from power immediately, remove them all from their homes and their families and lock them all down and quarantine them, remove all their ill-gotten wealth and prepare them all for mass trials.

We have to lock down all their criminal institutions, security agencies and endless committees, U.N., EU, IMF, W.H.O, World Bank. C.D.C, Federal Reserve Bank, C.I.A, N.S.A, G.C.H.Q, N.A.TO.

We have to secure the armed forces, the police and the judiciary to work for the people, to return the rule of law.

Only this will change their greed, so there is no question of them again accumulating obscene amounts of money, to gain absolute power to enslave humanity.

Because of these parasites deplorable behavior, everything has deteriorated, the morality, the character, the integrity, everything has become a commodity.

As it is now, you can purchase anybody, all you need is money.

Everybody is purchasable, judges are purchasable, police commissioners are purchasable, politicians are purchasable.

My rebellion is life-affirmative.

My rebellion is absolutely individual and it will spread from individual to individual.

Sometime soon, this whole planet has to break the spell of these criminal psychopaths.

So if you want to dance and sing and love and live a long and free life.

And to live as intensely and totally as possible.

In this total affirmation of life.

Iin this absolute ‘yes’ to life we can bring a totally new earth and a totally new humanity into being.

The past was ‘no.’

The future has to be ‘yes.’

We have lived enough with the ‘no’, we have suffered enough and there has been nothing but misery.

The world will be tremendously benefited if all this falseness and criminality disappears.

The alchemy of ‘yes’ and the rebellion based on ‘yes’ are capable of destroying all that is false.

We can discover all that is real and has been covered for centuries, layer upon layer by every generation, so much that even you yourself have forgotten ‘who you are’.

If suddenly somebody wakes you up and asks you, “Who are you?” you will take a little time to remember, to realize, but slowly, it will begin to come to you.

The very idea of enlightenment in the west is so new, although it is not something that has not been known before.

In the east throughout millennia, there have been enlightened people, but they never brought enlightenment as a rebellion.

The idea of a rebellion based on ‘yes’ means a rebellion based on awareness and meditation, for the first time in the history of humanity.

And because each individual has to work upon themselves, there is no question of any fight, there is no question of any organization, there is no question of any conspiracy, there is no question of any violence.

This whole earth is ours, but what kind of freedom is there if we cannot even move?

Everywhere there are barriers, every nation has become a big imprisonment.

Just because you cannot see the boundaries you think you are still free!

Just try to pass through the boundary and immediately you will be faced with a loaded gun, “Go back inside the prison.

You belong to this prison.

You cannot enter into another prison without permission.”

These are your nations!

Violence can never be a part of the rebellious spirit for the simple reason that violence is the whole past of humanity, and the enlightened rebel wants to discontinue with the past.

Violence has been the way of life for millennia.

Directly or indirectly we have lived under violence.

Our armies, our police, our jails, our judges, our wars, our so-called great religions, all have lived in violence.

And violence, reduced to its essentials, is irreverent towards life.

To me the religious individual, the religious consciousness, is nothing but a deep reverence for life itself.

Because there is no God other than life itself.

There is no paradise beyond consciousness, beyond herenow.

Life itself this moment is the paradise.

Celebrate your awakening!

Violence is a violation of both life and consciousness, it is destructive.

The rebel is a creator, the whole philosophy is that of creativity.

We have lived in destructiveness far too long, and what is the achievement?

Rebellion is when you accept that nobody is higher than you, nobody is lower than you.

In fact, the categories of lower and higher are inapplicable.

Each individual is so unique that it is not possible to compare two persons.

So how can you put somebody higher and somebody lower?

They are so different and so unique.

To be rebellious means to be transformed totally.

Rebellion is to live it here and now.

Rebellion is spontaneous.

It has nothing to do with any ideology.

Rebellion is non-ideological.

Rebellion has not been tried on a vast scale.

Just with the effort of billions of people meditating, sharing, loving silence and peace, and destroying all kinds of discrimination’s which create violence.

We will be making the space, the gap, the discontinuity that can save humanity and life on this planet.

.

Rise like Lions after slumber,
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew,
Which in sleep had fallen on you,
Ye are many – they are few.

The Masque of Anarchy – Percy Bysshe Shelley

https://whenwardisappears.wordpress.com/

1of7billion
1of7billion
Apr 3, 2020 1:19 AM

I am pretty sure there will be a lot of bad consequences of every kind from this mishandling of a virus epidemic, and the above analysis seems plausible, possibly even an underestimate.

The extent of the damage will undoubtedly be linked to how long these measures continue of course, that is to say, whether this graduates from being merely an exercise in shooting oneself in the foot, to shooting oneself in the head, globally speaking.

The question is what to do about it, and nobody seems to have any answers.

But consider this.

Suppose there were another infectious disease and virus currently infecting nearly 37 million people worldwide (covid-19 is still less than 1 million cases), and over 1 million (so far less than 50,000 have died of COVID-19) died of it annually, and 1.8 million became newly infected in a year.

Wouldn’t you think the media and governments would be going absolutely crazy about it, and quarantining all the carriers and giving the public mobile phone apps to warn them when they came within x feet of a carrier?

Yet there is such a disease, and virus, that has probably killed around a quarter of million people already this year and it’s called HIV, and no vaccine has ever been developed against it since it first appeared in the early 1980s, thus making it a permanent danger unless that ever happens.

https://www.who.int/features/qa/71/en/

But we don’t hear one single word about it.

Nobody is getting locked down, nobody knows who is infected, there is absolutely no quarantining of the carriers, there are absolutely no restrictions on what they can do – working in catering or hospitals even where cross infection is quite likely, whilst of course the most likely means of all of transmission is by sex.

So as sex is something most of the adult population are doing most of the time, and now with more partners than ever in recorded history, and this is not just about homosexual sex, so heterosexuals can be carriers and transmitters of it just as easily, everybody really is at major risk, their lives are at risk if they unknowingly have sex with a carrier, as they well might.

But not only are we not being warned about it, bearing in mind it is still mostly carried by homosexuals, both homosexuality and bisexuality (which thus makes it much more likely to be transmitted to heterosexuals) are being promoted relentlessly by the media, as well as promiscuous sex in general, with absolutely no regard whatsoever for the very high chance of death if one catches it.

So am I calling for all AIDS carriers to be publicly catalogued and maybe even quarantined in some manner, so that the rest of the public are protected from them?

No, I am not. Though there might well be a case for it, especially in light of the madness we have seen regarding even potential covid-19 carriers.

But I am just pointing out that there is a near total lack of governmental and media concern for an already know virus, HIV, for which no vaccine whatsoever exists, and is an absolutely massive danger and threat to human life.

Whilst both government and the media goes crazy and mass imprisons everybody for maybe passing on a virus that is not proven to be more dangerous than the average seasonal flu, or even failing that, not proven to be as dangerous as several other viruses in recent decades, which have been almost totally ignored.

So what can we, the apparently saner members of society do, to put an end to this clearly totally disjointed, irrational and basically unhinged emotionally motivated and obsessive thinking which has led to such an obvious anomaly?

Once this is over, hoping it ever is, we have to look at how we have allowed these people to get power – the PC people, the ones who have been calling for the mass imprisonment and denial of human rights most emphatically.

And we have to do that by looking at the electoral system and changing it.

In particular, as I have said elsewhere, by getting control of electoral candidate lists (currently hijacked by usually PC oriented special interest groups and rich elite puppets).

And by campaigning for and insisting upon a full proportional representation system of elections, which breaks up the current domination of politics by usually a 2 or 3 party system; a totally outdated system which renders the votes of most of the public irrelevant, because they pretty much know depending where they live, which party is going to win again, as they nearly always do, so often there is little point voting.

And without which new electoral system, no new party or independent candidate, has any chance whatsoever of gaining political power, leaving most of the public unrepresented, and forced almost always to make a choice between “the lesser of two evils”, neither of whom they actually would choose given an alternative.

There is no other way to get sane government – as the people in power we have now are just various shades of insanity, and it is not any surprise therefore that we awaken one day in asylum, as we have now done, when we have let these kinds of people get more and more power for so long.

That is, I don’t think either Boris Johnson or President Trump are especially crazy, but they clearly are not strong and wise enough to resist the many in positions of public power and influence who are.

Both should have said NO with a vengeance, to the Chinese “bait” to impose tyranny on their own people, they should have listened to other scientists who disagreed, rather than giving into the political and media pressure from those who were basically their enemies, trying to bring them down, as I have above explained.

It is fortunately not too late for either of them to wake up and tell the public the truth, which is – we must resume normal life as soon as possible, or else the destruction we cause by shutting our society down will have far, far worse consequences than the virus.

Peter klimon
Peter klimon
Apr 12, 2020 3:28 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

So your solution is to wreak the constitution? Not a good idea! The problem isn’t the constitution, it is due to The complete destruction of our teaching institutions and family units that have brainwashed multiple generations to hate the very country and families that gave them birth.

Grafter
Grafter
Apr 3, 2020 12:29 AM

Was talking to a very fit Deliveroo cyclist from the gig economy today. Although still employed he told me his normal average daily wage was around £115 pre Covid but was now around £45 per day. Seems those lockdown inhabitants are getting fed up with eating pizza.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 2, 2020 11:50 PM

When I was out on my ‘daily exercise’ session today I met a fellow sceptic. We had a very long chat and exchanged contact details as well as respective sources of information on the Internet. I shall call her ‘L’. (Hi, L, if you see this!)

Four of the information sources that L referenced all follow the same theme in terms of explaining “how the coronavirus pandemic came about and how it ties in with an initiative which has been pursued since 2001 (post 9/11) in the US to bring the Deep State to account for all the atrocities committed in its name. This initiative is now reaching its climax with Donald Trump leading the vanguard. The contention advanced in the internet sources is that the control measures we are subjected to tie in with preventing the Deep State and its world wide cohorts from achieving their ambitions to continue wielding their power and control.”

I have described the theme of the allegations above in quotation marks so that it is clear that I am conveying what others ‘out there’ are saying. I shall give two links here and two links in a follow-up post to this one so that everyone on here who chooses to view them can make their own minds up about the plausibility. Having viewed them I thought it was essential to broadcast them wider to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to see an interpretation of the ongoing events which has extremely explosive implications.

The respective links vary in the amount of detail they contain but they are all worth watching as they all contain significant messages.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 2, 2020 11:53 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Next two links referenced in my post at 11.50, Apr 2.

Baloo Da
Baloo Da
Apr 2, 2020 10:48 PM

Looks like this site is just controlled opposition. I tried posting some real information on what COVID-19 really is, but the post gets censored.

You will not find real information here, you are wasting your time.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Apr 2, 2020 11:11 PM
Reply to  Baloo Da

It had diverted to spam, don’t worry 🙂

Baloo Da
Baloo Da
Apr 2, 2020 10:29 PM

COVID-19 is just project POGO and project ZYPHR playing out.

In July 2019 David Goldberg revealed leaked documents in a video:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/fP9CIjb6dVia/

Shortly after David was found dead in his apartment. In the video he claims he was “bugged” and monitored.

David Goldberg’s Paraphrased Quotes:

• “millions killed by engineered virus”
• “disguised as flu outbreak”
• “winter 2020”
• “total financial meltdown”
• “they’ve been compiling identities of millions of people online who exceed a certain wrong think threshold. in 2020 they will round them all up and kill them, using the virus as a decoy”
• “normally if millions of people are killed people would notice but because of the virus no one will question it”
• “they have become a problem for the Israelis”
• “the virus will lead to the planned dissolution of America, and justified to create a world
government headed by Israel”

This is it. This is the endgame. It’s HAPPENING.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 5:45 AM
Reply to  Baloo Da

This is just one of the multiple stories they push out, this one appealing to those who tend to think the absolute worst of governments (I mean you can see why, of course, but how are they going to manufacture viruses when they can’t even isolate them?). There is zero evidence of a virus at all, engineered or otherwise.

Baloo Da
Baloo Da
Apr 3, 2020 1:23 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I agree that the evidence for the existence of virus is rather weak. However, whether real or imaginary, the effect on the population is the same. Widespread panic and fear. This is good backdrop for execution of draconian plan(s).

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 12, 2020 3:46 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“how are they going to manufacture viruses when they can’t even isolate them?”

Your OCD doesn’t pay much attention to actuality, does it? I suppose that’s par for course for OCDs.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 12, 2020 4:35 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Robbo, I readily admit to knowing nothing about viruses. You’ll have to argue it out with, Tony. I”m sure he’d be most interested in your evidence that this virus has been isolated.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/08/coronavirus-fact-check-2-the-emergency-powers-will-only-last-2-years/#comment-143800

You should always ask all those who really insist that any variant or ‘mutation’ of this alleged ‘pathogenic’ Cornavirus physically exists to come up with the original scientific paper that actually demonstrates the FACT, with the name of the scientist who claims to have identified it, when and where at, and who funded the research and then ask how it was isolated with all the full experimental details. Which means isolation and purification by methods other than by paying lip service to serology or PCR assays, or reference to GenBank sequences that allegedly derive from the genomes of isolated viruses which you can never prove they have really isolated those viruses, because you cannot get the original papers (and I don’t just mean references to such papers). The only way to prove coronavirus or any of its alleged ‘mutations’ is by the criteria that I have specified on other threads – nobody appears to have come forward in claiming to have done just that. Only then can you do the experiments to prove a virus is infectious. Until they do that the coronavirus and its alleged ‘mutations’ exist in NAME & THOUGHT ONLY and its actual physical existence remains indeterminate and therefore SPECULATIVE. Hope this answers your question!

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 13, 2020 1:48 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Your halitosis has reached stupifying proportions. Your long response (of April 12, 2020, 4:35 AM) precedes my short post by a minute.

“I readily admit to knowing nothing about viruses […] The only way to prove coronavirus or any of its alleged ‘mutations’ is by the criteria that I have specified…”

Anything you can regurgitate that fits (your dementia), right? OK:

The announcement, with a dateline of March 12, 2020 (a month ago), is at:
https://sunnybrook.ca/research/media/item.asp?f=covid-19-isolated-2020&i=2069

Somebody could print that dateline in 72 point Cooper Black on both sides of a samuri sword and shove it up your arse the ½” needed to reach your brain, a.k.a. you rectum, and you would still contrive to overlook, ignore, rubbish, traduce or lie it into nonexistence to keep your diarrhoea portal functional.

One of the three researchers involved is Samira Mubareka: https://sunnybrook.ca/research/team/member.asp?t=12&m=417&page=529
lists her work address, room number, phone and fax numbers and email address. Why don’t you contact her and tell her she’s an incompetent, lying, fraudulent bitch of a controlled oppositionist and you demand a copy of her paper? From memory, BICBW, I think it’s your Tony expert who maintains nobody has ever isolated any virus. Better get the green light from him first. Samira will probably be so thrilled she’ll stick you in a footnote.

The University of Toronto doesn’t provide an open access directory, so you’ll have to contact the administration there to locate Robert A. Kozak. Tell them you’re trying to contact an incompetent, lying, fraudulent controlled oppositionist of that name and there’s a chance they’ll stick your copy of Samira’s footnote in their shredder to check. If they’re shrewd judges of anatomy they might even remove the slot and invite you to sit on it as it shreds. One of them is doing a part-time degree in brain surgery.

Arinjay Banerjee is a post doctoral fellow at McMaster but doesn’t seem to have a listing in their directory, but 2/3 should do.

Sorry to be so long getting back to you with this old news. Spent a long time trying to find some help for a disabled relative whose washing machine failed mid-wash.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 13, 2020 10:34 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Somebody could print that dateline in 72 point Cooper Black on both sides of a samuri sword and shove it up your arse the ½” needed to reach your brain, a.k.a. you rectum …

I thought OffG readers were here to help promote democracy, freedom (including the very important freedoms of speech and thought) and peace. But it seems not everyone because your words are extremely violent and show great intolerance of others’ views. If it’s just that all this nonsense self-isolation has got to you, Robbo, and you’re stir-crazy I do understand. Nevertheless, I’d ask you to get a grip and refrain from violent language unless in fact you don’t believe in:

Freedom and tolerance of speech and thought
Democracy
Peace

… and you’re all for expressing violent words to others when you don’t agree with them and feel you have every entitlement to do so.

Can you confirm if you do believe in the above or not and, if not, what keeps you on these pages? If you do subscribe to the above can you explain how the violent words you have directed at me fit those beliefs.

You need to read Tony’s words more carefully. Your link is to an article stating that three scientists have isolated the virus. Seriously? This is simply a claim. Where’s the evidence that Tony says, perfectly reasonably, is required to prove the virus has been isolated?

Not everything is outright “controlled opposition”, Robbo. There are nuances and subtleties. There’s the people that “go along to get along”, the gatekeepers who somehow cannot understand the basic science of implosions, the genuine opposition whose minds have been cleverly controlled by the “controlled opposition” and cannot take on that death and injury were staged on 9/11 despite the clear evidence and no doubt other variations. It’s all on a continuum. I think you’ll find the words of Upton Sinclair highly pertinent.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Baloo Da
Baloo Da
Apr 2, 2020 10:19 PM

Very intriguing article.

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Apr 2, 2020 5:00 PM

I am a former electronics engineer – self taught in analog design. After about 20 years of putting up with dick heads who relied on engineering “degrees”, I concluded that formal education has become nothing more than a glorified pissing contest; wherein experts learn how to nullify facts…
The corona pan-panic is a wonderful example of scientific narcissism married to banker controlled political incompetence…

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.”

– Richard P. Feynman –
(May 11, 1918 – February 15, 1988)

1of7billion
1of7billion
Apr 2, 2020 4:58 PM

It certainly could, excellent article.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 4:03 PM

“In a headline today the DT informs us that comedian Eddie Large:

“died after contracting coronavirus”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/02/eddie-large-dead-contracting-coronavirus/

If you go to Eddies’s Wikipedia page you read this:

“After being admitted to hospital in March 2002 due to kidney problems, he underwent a heart transplant at Papworth Hospital, Cambridge in 2003 at the age of 62, and recovered fully.[citation needed] Large was hospitalised for some weeks in late 2013 after tripping over a road sign near his Portishead home.[9] Large died on 2 April 2020 at Southmead Hospital in Bristol after contracting COVID-19 while in hospital receiving treatment for heart failure.[10] Large had suffered from kidney and heart problems for a number of years.[8][11] ”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Large

THe headline – and the article suggest that Large died of covid-19, whereas it is clear to anyone who Looks a little deeper, that that is doubtful to say the least.

Presumably, this will be added to the death toll of covid-19

RIP Eddie.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 2, 2020 8:56 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Clearly the covid19 was incidental to his death.

I notice the mainstream media are all reporting it as a coronavirus death.

There should be Nuremberg trials for these deceitful scumbags.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 2, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

You guys have no dignity. We all gonna die. Some day. Sooner or later.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 2, 2020 9:40 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

say what?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 5:47 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

You don’t actually think COVID-19 was present, do you, John?

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 2, 2020 3:50 PM

If you wanna hear and promote alternative opinions, hear this. Virus is unfortunately real and will kill a lot of people but it’s not the cause for the collapse of economy. It’s just the pin that bursted the huge bubble or ponzi that had been growing. Printing money will not help. https://youtu.be/32KluX2Bvn8

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 4:42 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

The point is not to “hear and promote alternative opinions”

The point is to find out the truth of what is going on.

I am not so much interested in opinions as I am in facts.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 2, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Did you listen to interview I linked? Check facts yourself and form an educated opinion. I’d like to hear yours.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 2, 2020 8:51 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I got your point. Talking about facts, why are you then spreading OPINIONS by these 12+10 experts? How did you fact check those opinions? Can you elaborate on that.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 2, 2020 9:42 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

“Virus is unfortunately real and will kill a lot of people”

is an opinion.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 2, 2020 9:52 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

Well, you can check the facts in hindsight. It’s one thing to call something an opinion. Another thing is to bring facts to the table. Gimme some facts. Checked facts. I’m not here to entertain you. Be serious.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 3, 2020 12:40 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

I’m not here to entertain you.

Good effort though.

Peter Szabo
Peter Szabo
Apr 12, 2020 3:37 AM
Reply to  shitstorm

The facts are in the actual data compiled and compared to relative dates, reports from various experts, public announcements and plain hard research? Do not be so critical. Everyone does not have ability or time to post volumous research for every reply….

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 5:48 AM
Reply to  clickkid

This is an incontrovertible fact:
There is zero evidence supporting the reality of this virus and there is evidence against its reality.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 7:14 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Put the verified evidence to the table.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 7:50 AM
Reply to  shitstorm

In summary:

  • Pre-pandemic events that are difficult to reconcile with coincidence
  • Testing – No evidence that virus strain can be isolated, indications of lying about testing being done
  • Numbers of cases and mortality – evidence of fraudulence of figures
  • ​Patients – alleged patients showing no signs of illness, people alleging miraculous recovery from brink of death by taking anti-malarial, chloroquine
  • ​In-your-face anomalies – Chinese cobra and many-banded krait being reservoirs, empty buildings being converted to a hospital in 48 hours with unconvincing evidence shown, alleged sufferers falling flat on face, laid out on pavement, etc

For more detail:
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

If you think there is any evidence that favours the hypothesis of the existence of COVID-19 over the hypothesis that the virus is made up and any figures applied to sufferers of it or deaths from it are either made up or apply to sufferers of other health conditions, please let me know what it is.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 9:27 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

One thing I agree. We don’t have enough facts about numerators and denominators. Assume 10 tested positive, 1 dead ->10% mortality. What if another died unnoticed -> 20%, what if 90 positive not tested -> 1%. Assume both true -> 2% etc. etc. Generally, when you don’t know you need to be risk averse and take extreme measures. Otherwise, you’ve gotta fair chances to be f***ed. Then again if the intention is to get everything f***ed, let it roll. I’m not advocating that. And you?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 1:08 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

I pay little attention to the figures because figures can be fudged, made up, whatever … although, of course, it’s good if you can point out they don’t add up or are obviously fraudulent.

The visual evidence they present to us of this virus is either obviously faked or extremely unconvincing and that being the case, without any other clear evidence of the virus’s existence, I say it doesn’t exist.

The alleged COVID-19 pandemic is obviously a “live exercise” following Event 201, a tabletop pandemic exercise held in October 2019, partnered by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

It is a Trauma-based Mind-Control Psychological Operation just like 9/11 and a number of other events. I’d say across the world it is causing far more trauma than 9/11 did.

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 1:11 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

You outta your mind? There has been 6 exercises altogether (201 + five others) but this is not an excercise or a game.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 1:18 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

5 others? Most interested in them. What are they?

Why is it not an exercise? What’s your evidence?

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 1:41 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Like I said before I’m not here to entertain anyone. See piece of evidence below. What’s your evidence that it’s an exercise? None. Guess I’m gonna leave you to discuss and argue these things from your own perspective which is not grounded to facts by any means. Have fun.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

It’s fascinating the way people deny and gloss over evidence.

My evidence is on my webpage which I can only infer you didn’t look at, right?

All the visual evidence presented for this virus is obviously faked or completely unconvincing and doesn’t add up.

Below are a number of patients shown to us for which the evidence of their suffering from the virus is not indicated or contradicts what we have been told about lack of cure for the virus. These are signs it is an exercise or psyop because when they psyop us they always give us the clues.

How can they tell us that a man was miraculously cured by an anti-malarial? Even if he thought he was the media shouldn’t push that, should they, because the alleged COVID-19 is sooooooooooooo seriouuuuuuuuuuuuuus.

You can see more detail of these patients on my webpage – if you don’t look at the evidence that doesn’t entitle you to say there isn’t any.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

No symptoms or behaviour unconvincing

— 40-year-old Ulster pastor struggling for breath

— 41-year-old Italian also struggling

— 39-year-old London patient- notice how when she coughs her head goes out of view. She shows us her wrist with what looks like taping of tubes and says, “They’ve had to sew that into my artery.” This makes no sense.

— 3 Americans, showing zero symptoms

Miracle survivors
— 82 year-old North Staffordshire grandfather makes miracle recovery – with antibiotics. How is this possible if antibiotics are said not to be a cure?

— 90 year-old Washington grandmother makes miracle recovery from “death’s door”, potato soup being her secret weapon. No images of her suggest she is ill.

— A 52 year-old Miami man, “gaspin'”, “on the brink of death” and thinking his “days were done” recovers miraculously with anti-malarial, chloroquine. Of course, the media is simply reporting what the alleged sufferers feel has helped them … but surely for such a serious problem if potato soup and chloroquine have not been scientifically proven to help sufferers shouldn’t the media be warning viewers?

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 7:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Award-winning singer-songwriter Christopher Cross has been diagnosed with coronavirus.

The artist shared the news with his fans on social media.

“Dear friends, I’m sorry to report that I am among the growing number of Americans who tested positive for the COVID-19 virus,” Cross announced in a message posted to his Facebook page. “I’m not in the habit of discussing medical issues on social media, but I do so in hope this will help other people to understand how serious and how contagious this illness is. Although I am fortunate enough to be cared for at home, this is possibly the worst illness I’ve ever had. For those of you who still do not believe the COVID-19 virus is real, or think it is a ‘hoax’ or part of some conspiracy, my advice to you is to understand right now that this is a deadly illness spreading like wildfire throughout the world.”

He’s not the only one. Alan Merrill died, John Prine is in ICU. Many more musicians have died because of Covid-19. Get sober!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 4, 2020 10:20 AM
Reply to  shitstorm

What you have to look at is actual evidence. They can tell us anything. It’s a massive conspiracy.

The evidence they show us for sick people is not consistent with sick people and the miracle survivor stories do not add up. They always tell us when they’re psyopping us.

Have you looked at my page? Have you done that? Please look at the evidence and don’t just come back with nonsense about this or that person allegedly dying of COVID-19. It means nothing. We have been told many people died of one thing or another and we know that either they died from something else or they their death was staged.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

A very constant psyop is that of telling us people died. It’s ever present. They told us that 3,000 people died and 6,000 were injured on 9/11 but the evidence shows that death and injury were staged.

Please apply more rigour to your argument. Pls do not come back with any old guff and when you do come back indicate that you’ve looked at my page and express an opinion on its content or I won’t bother reading your reply.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 4, 2020 12:22 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

But Petra, people do die. Every day. Thousands of them. There’s no need to invent deaths. All you need to do is take some of the real ones and assign them to a virus they may have or be assumed to have.

Sure some of those viral videos are possibly fake, because not many genuine very sick people will bother posting on YouTube in order to tell people to take government advice, but that does not equate to death being a fiction.

In fact that is precisely the lie the PTB are subliminally selling, that death is a rarity, an anomaly that can be corrected. You are inadvertently promoting the same nonsense.

People are dying, just as they always do, but in unremarkable numbers and for unremarkable reasons.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 4, 2020 1:27 PM
Reply to  Admin1

Admin1, Apologies, I expressed myself badly.

When I said:
We have been told many people died of one thing or another and we know that either they died from something else or they their death was staged. …

… it might look as though I’m referring specifically to this pandemic psyop when I just mean it with regard to psyops generally.

Of course, in this psyop it is the former option that would exclusively (or virtually exclusively) be the case – ascribing cause of death to COVID-19 when the person has died from something else. However, even if there is no good reason to fake death for such a psyop it isn’t to say they haven’t at all. Even though they don’t need to fake death, one or other person may wish to disappear for whatever reason (just as they do in other psyops) and thus agree to participate so they can be sheepdipped (given a new identity and shipped off somewhere). Obviously, many psyops require people to disappear afterwards so even though in this psyop the vast majority of the deaths will be real (just not caused by COVID-19) we shouldn’t assume that all the deaths are – people obviously like disappearing otherwise the perps couldn’t keep perpetrating psyops. We cannot know whether any deaths in this psyop have been faked or not but my tendency is to think some have been.

ALL the videos of alleged sufferers posted by mainstream media show people who do not display symptoms consistent with suffering from the alleged virus and/or who display odd behaviour. This is 100% to be expected because the obviously very strict rules of psyops means that they never fake anything so well that it can be used by someone who believes their story to support it. I KNEW when I went to look at the alleged sufferers on YouTube that none of them would be convincing.

Peter klimon
Peter klimon
Apr 12, 2020 3:50 AM
Reply to  Admin1

That is a good supposition. My research indicates they have been taking normal deaths such as pneumonia and lumping them under Covid-19 on a grand scale. Very easy validate by simply comparing total deaths to prior stats. Overall deaths are same or even lower which should be an increase if coved-19 was new and rampant. This avoids having to verify details and is fairly accurate. Basically as you sugggested they are simply taking other deaths an calling them Covid-19 deaths.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 12, 2020 4:12 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“90 year-old Washington grandmother makes miracle recovery from “death’s door”, potato soup being her secret weapon […] if potato soup and chloroquine have not been scientifically proven to help sufferers shouldn’t the media be warning viewers?”

Misreporting? Should read “chicken soup” and “hydroxychloroquine”?

shitstorm
shitstorm
Apr 3, 2020 1:21 PM
Reply to  shitstorm

There have been stories claiming that the coronavirus isn’t changing rapidly. It is. Only about 1,000 genomes have been sequenced worldwide, so there is a lot we are missing. Even so, according to Nextstrain.org, a site that tracks viral genomes across the planet, the virus is mutating 1,000 times faster than influenza viruses and 36,000 times faster than measles (see graphs below). Very few people, with the exception of people like Trevor Bradford, an associate member at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, few people are honestly discussing why, how, where, and what this means for the future.
RNA-based viruses are known to be genetically-unstable, and this one’s mutating about 20 times faster than regular RNA viruses. The published rate of change has gone up by 20% in the past two weeks.
This could be good news or bad news, depending on how humanity’s luck breaks over the next 12 months. We are witnessing, in real-time, a global game of roulette.
The genome of the coronavirus is extraordinarily long for a virus. It has over a dozen genes encoded by over 30,000 bases. For comparison, the common cold viruses and HIV are only ~9,200 bases long. Most mutations will make the virus less dangerous. Some will put a stop signal in the middle of a protein and render the virus impotent. Others will just make the virus less efficient because the viral proteins need to work together with the human proteins in a complex dance. If they change, they probably won’t work as well.
The type of mutation that is most dangerous is called a “missense” mutation because it changes which amino acids make up viral proteins. A few amino acid changes in a protein can make a huge difference in how that protein behaves, like how slight tweaks to computer software can change how that software works.
Amino acid changes in one of over a dozen current coronavirus genetic
variants around the globe could lead to an even more infectious or lethal strain or render detection kits less accurate. The genetic changes that caused the 1957
influenza pandemic changed only 5 amino acids in that virus’s surface protein. On March 15th, the most mutated viral sample had 10 mutations, including the one in the spike protein gene that we definitely don’t want to mutate. Two weeks later, there was one with 16 mutations, 14 of which were missense, fortunately not all in the spike protein. But if these strains continue to mutate over the next 18 months, they could make vaccines less effective or trigger a doomsday scenario where our immune system is unable to prevent reinfection.
Fortunately, most viral experts say such possibilities are highly unlikely. Not zero, mind you. We’ve never had a truly global pandemic caused by a coronavirus in billions of people, changing and evolving, which is why I continue to monitor the situation.

https://twitter.com/davidasinclair/status/1245455888573435907?s=20

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 12, 2020 4:01 AM
Reply to  shitstorm

“You outta your mind?”

Yes.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Apr 3, 2020 3:29 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra, you might try asserting your obsession to dan, who curates ‘The Lifeboat News’: a frontline doctor in a London hospital, currently at home recovering from a violent flu-like illness, after working full-time unprotected with ICUs full of seriously-ill people. Try explaining to him that he’s hallucinating it all; or to us why he’s obviously a disinformation plant. His wife has had the same illness, but has recovered.

Go on P, I dare you! But beware: dan has been getting quite tetchy even with the overall questioning stance of Off-G, since to him, the obviousness of a serious epidemic outbreak is self-evidently before his eyes at work.

As it is for Chinese-American Dr. Richard Chang, front-line MD treating patients in Shanghai (where they’re healing – sic! – covid cases with big-dose IV vitaminC infusions; as is a chain of hospitals in NYstate, to little media notice.

Andrew Saul has the details here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXNvMDdM8A).

Dr. Chang is also acting as a daily reporter to his personally-known friend Andrew, of ‘Doctoryourself.com’ (qv).

Since Andrew seems to suffer wilfully misinformed fools with a little more humorous tolerance than dan is in the mood to do right now, Andrew having kept all respiratory – and all other – illnesses at bay (as have I for over 20 years) with regular doses of oral vitC of at least 3 grams – sic! – per day, I suggest you start with him.

Good luck! :O)

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 4:24 PM

Rhisiart,

You make false claims about me.

I do not assert. I make claims based on evidence, OK? I always make claims based on evidence or where that doesn’t apply logic and reason.

My claim is that the alleged COVID-19 pandemic is a psychological operation for which I present compelling evidence on my webpage.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

This does not mean that I do not deny a serious flu going around or any other illnesses. A friend had a serious flu last year and had to go to hospital. I wouldn’t be in the least surprised if all the BS rules in place for this alleged disease is actually somehow increasing spread of genuine illness.

Obviously, if this is a psyop then many people will be involved and lots of people can say stuff – how do we know it’s true? If your video is simply talking heads how do I know the people are not just mouthpieces for this operation?

I watched a video of a Sydney doctor, Dr Rita Almohty, on Australian TV show, Sunday Project, (who funnily enough a friend had just visited and with whom she had to speak by phone at the surgery) saying the following:
— she is a single mother, 6 months pregnant, and has a 2 year old
— she is seeing patients and wears a mask for 5 days straight and a single-use gown for over a week. The reporter asks her if this means she’s not protected when she’s working. She replies that it does and it’s not good infection control.

Perhaps you believe her story, Rhisiart, but I hope you will not hold it against me if I don’t.
I don’t believe that Sydney doctors are so short of masks and gowns.
I don’t believe that if this doctor were really so exposed to infection by this dangerous disease she would be practising under these conditions when she’s 6 months pregnant and has a 2 year-old child.

I don’t know if you’re on Facebook but this is the only link I can find to the video.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=208990087029687

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 12, 2020 3:58 AM
Reply to  clickkid

‘The point is not to “hear and promote alternative opinions”’

Our remit, as we see it, is to provide a home for the comment – & the facts – you no longer find in the MSM. –Off Guardian

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 2:05 PM

Almost Ten Million Americans have lost their Jobs in the last two weeks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/shocking-9-million-americans-have-now-filed-unemployment-benefits-lockdowns-began

Link title is wrong – 9.948 Million have filed jobless claims.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 3:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

won’t somebody please think of the childrenelderly???

SteveK9
SteveK9
Apr 2, 2020 1:14 PM

Sorry, forgot the link … worth watching all of these videos, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmFDE8P6_M-C4HTOuWwm4Dg

SteveK9
SteveK9
Apr 2, 2020 1:13 PM

US deaths might be more like 15,000-20,000. But, the damage has been done. The economic, and social consequences will be with us for years, and cause far more ‘extra deaths’, than the virus, if it doesn’t completely rip apart the social fabric. It’s very easy to make people afraid. This will be one more tool in the box for controlling you.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
Apr 2, 2020 1:08 PM

A very thought provoking article.

Th CV has only exposed what was already inherent in the Capitalist System ( particularly the Anglo Saxon model ) and obviously added to it.

Even in the Uk where healthcare is free – the media and politicians -charitees etc use a phrase full off misleading meaning: ” Cold Related Deaths ” as if it was nature’s way that poorer people cannot afford to keep their houses and themselves warm between October and march each year without fail.

These are people who live in terrible houses anyway with no insulation and damp running up and down the walls.

The Homeless don’t have houses by definition so that’s extra.

After that glib phrase is used across an unknowing or uncaring media to a an unknowing or uncaring.

Most of the NHS media pronouncers – who more than likely voted Tory – are urging the people to applaud the Nurses?Medics as the lying hypocrites they are.

The people I refer to above are the main reason why the British NHS is (anpther nasty phrase coming up ) ” Bedblocked ”

What does the government do?

Park them up for a while and then send them back from whence they came back to the very same damp holes that put them in hospital in the first place year on year.

Ironically they are safer in hospital than in their homes.

If anything can be learnt from this CV crisis is that this is only a mild revelation of the blessings of Capitalism.

There are more trials by Mother nature to come and Capitalism should have died on its feet in 2008 but it has been kept alive by the poorer populations of the world.

The truth is that if you are a worker you are only any use if the Capitalists can exploit you.

When you are old and sick or dis-abled the capitalists look upon you as their cost.

Even when it is not they who are or end up paying.

Whether this opens people’s eyes to the actual facts I don’t know but revolts happen in the most unlikely of places ( a lot of Wildcat strikes in the US) so we shall see.

You can -as usual – put the UK way to the back of the Revolt Queue – as usual.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 1:36 PM
Reply to  Ken Kenn

” Cold Related Deaths ”

I suppose that would apply to Scott of the Antarctic.

Agree with you.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 11:48 AM

Willem,

you have made the claim that at least some ICUs in the Netherlands are full.

I don’t know about NL, but a number of countries make information on ICU occupancy publically available.

Can you find that info for NL, or give me an idea how to find it?

What we then have to do is to compare it to previous times and years – ie see if it is anomalous.

Cheers!

Willem
Willem
Apr 2, 2020 5:26 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Thanks for asking, and apologies for not giving this info (I was too busy with my ‘own data’), which is there. It’s all in Dutch, hope that is not a problem

This is for today

https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2020-04/Epidemiologische%20situatie%20COVID-19%202%20april%202020.pdf

Especially the last pages are interesting

Page 17 is about IC units: currently 1200 people are admitted, while NL has 1100 IC beds (but upscaled to 1600)

Page 18 is about the PCR positives. It follows what I have been seeing: with an unchanged triage system you find

First weeks pcr positives 15%
Last week pcr positive 30%
Now: between 25-30% (maybe a trend downwards)

You can also see the ‘hotspot’ I have been talking about in the Eindhoven region and which I find difficult to comprehend (so I really need to think about that a bit more)

Hope this info is useful to you

Willem
Willem
Apr 2, 2020 5:46 PM
Reply to  Willem

‘ What we then have to do is to compare it to previous times and years – ie see if it is anomalous.’

Agreed. I will look for that, and then especially for the 2017-18 flu season.

What I found was that Dutch ICs were during that flu season overburdened too, but these claims were non-supported with numbers.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 7:39 PM
Reply to  Willem

Dank u wel!

jay
jay
Apr 2, 2020 11:26 AM

My Comments and replies to the Ironically titled:

‘We need the Dunkirk spirit… time is running out’: Francis Crick Institute chief urges Boris Johnson to overrule control-freak public health chiefs and scale up mass testing across Britain

TroflimLysenko, Stalingrad, United Kingdom, 20 minutes ago

Spanish flu came just after WW1, people were malnurished, starving, ill and weak. There has not been anything since because there have been no similar circumstances. This ‘pandemic’ is thusfar only taking 1/15 of the deaths of a badish flu year. The deaths are being overstated, people are dying with it, not of it.

Wehaveallhadenough, London, United Kingdom, 14 minutes ago

You’re underestimating the strength of this virus. It isn’t the ‘flu’. It’s a mutated SARS virus. Please, don’t consider this to be the flu because it really isn’t. Doctors and nurses in the UK are reporting that young, healthy people are coming into A&E with a fever but are concious and speaking and a couple of hours later they are dead and in a body bag. There include teenagers and those in their 20’s and 30’s. If we didn’t have social isolation going on the hospitals wouldn’t be able to save people. The whole healthcare system wouldn’t be able to cope. We need antibody testing to be done throughout the whole country to see who has had it and those who have had it can go back to work.

TroflimLysenko, Stalingrad, United Kingdom, 7 minutes ago

Wehaveallhadenough…So, what you are saying is covid deaths are more deadly deaths than flu deaths, even although there were 15 times as many. This is the nonsense that you are suggesting. You are either a complete fool or a liar, I KNOW what you are.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 11:03 AM

A formulation I’ve often read or heard goes something along these libes:

‘He was diagnosed as having the virus’ etc

This is a misuse of the word ‘diagnosed’.

Only somebody who has clinical symptoms can be diagnosed. If a particular virus is found in someone, then that by itself does not constitute a ‘diagnosis’.

Even when someone presents with clinical symptoms, then they are diagnosed with an illness – not a virus.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 4:42 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Clickkid you’ve got me thinking now. Two years ago, someone I worked with had a really serious and prolonged bout of chronic chest problems and pain. She is of the minimum wage category of citizens in the UK so the NHS tend to be contemptuous of such people. It was not CV-19 – it was a recurring problem over the previous two years but this episode was causing severe problems. She was working a ton of overtime to pay the bills in a cold, hostile environment (an extremely badly run warehouse), was doing everything in the house because of a worthless husband and a worthless son and was single handedly running herself into the ground to pay their respective debts and the household billsl. Now, I took her to the A&E department of the local hospital because she was starting to feel faint, was burning up and was coughing blood. What did the medics say to her? Sorry you’ve got a virus; we don’t treat viruses go to your GP you have no right to attend at A&E and there is no treatment for any viruses. Call me old fashioned but isn’t meningitis a virus which has a treatment? What’s all this fuss about treating CV-19 – there is no treatment as Dr Montanari says in a Press interview in Italy.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 2, 2020 9:06 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Good point.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 10:36 AM

I have been posting about how way overblown this thing is on a couple of mainstream sites in the last week or so.

I have noticed over the last couple of days that people are increasingly receptive to that message.

Let’s not forget that considered just in economic terms, that there are many, many losers from these draconian measures. Those with lost jobs, diminished incomes and destroyed businesses.

As we gradually mone out of the initial ‘Netflix and popcorn’ stage of this crisis, they are the natural constituency for the message of sanity.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 10:42 AM
Reply to  clickkid

There has been an underlying suspicion amongst many people right from the start. It was worded in discrete murmurs and “jokes”. But I think there is bound to be an increasing receptivity as the weeks go by. So expect a huge wave of demonisation – the usual conspiracy phobic rants. Only this time backed up with a moralist outrage over “putting lives in danger”.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 10:59 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Yes, the ‘hoax argument’ is, whatever you make of it, a non-starter for ‘normal people’.

What they can get their heads around is the concept, as elucidated here, that the economic cost of the measures taken, together with the resulting death and suffering, is completely disproportionate, and that therefore a rational strategy consists of protecting the vulnerable, rather than putting everybody into lockdown.

I also hammer home the distinction between dying ‘of’ the virus and dying ‘with’ the virus.

People are getting it.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 11:12 AM
Reply to  clickkid

It truly is astonishing how so many people have no grasp of socio-economic matters. They are focussed on the virus and how it is “killing so many” etc. As for normal social activity, they just assume it will return just the way it was, and it will be back to the soaps and the beer and the fags etc. That people need to make money, need jobs, need services just doesn’t register with them – or they think it all will just work out OK anyway.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 2, 2020 3:14 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Let’s not be slagging off beer and fags, George. 🙂

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  JohnB

evidence suggests that long-term consumption of “fags” is one of the primary risk factors for severe respiratory illnesses such as this.

a cynical person might observe that impoverishing millions of people, for the alleged benefit of a minority who ignored decades of warnings about the toxic effects of their drug habit, is somewhat unfair.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 2, 2020 6:27 PM
Reply to  milosevic

evidence suggests that long-term consumption of “fags” is one of the primary risk factors for severe respiratory illnesses such as this.

evidence suggests putting everyday English words unnecessarily in quotes is some sort of NLP, milo. 🙂

‘severe’ – evidence, links ? 🙂

a cynical person might observe that impoverishing millions of people, …

by growing tobacco in my back garden ? get out of town.

… who ignored decades of warnings about the toxic effects of their drug habit

from the slime who’ve brought us covid19. A tad surprised you take the word of health agencies and governments as accurate. 🙂

Sheesh, you make a little joke …

Paul2
Paul2
Apr 2, 2020 7:15 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Legal cases covering radiation from polonium 210 in tobacco led me to stop in 2003 after smoking for over 20 years. More cases came out after that as referenced in the link, but I seem to remember a lot of it came down to choice of fertilizer. Also lots of talk off gag orders I recall from the reading I did back then, especially around the legal cases in Israel but this is a good overview for anyone interested in another corporate travesty that should be more widely known.

“Waking a Sleeping Giant: The Tobacco Industry’s Response to the Polonium-210 Issue”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2509609/

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  George Mc

George Mc – yes – also, they need to quantify the so called ‘putting lives in danger’ into reliable, confirmed stats.

Kate
Kate
Apr 5, 2020 10:26 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Unfortunately, George, most people don’t get the fact that, by conceiving and giving birth to them, their own parents are “putting their lives in danger”.

Jane
Jane
Apr 2, 2020 5:37 PM
Reply to  clickkid

You couldn’t get more mainstream than the Mail on Sunday or Good Morning Britain where Peter Hitchens is doing his best. The comments generally agree with his point of view, though not all. The other day there was a man complaining that his 85-year old mother, who suffered from dementia, leukemia and diabete, would die if she caught coronavirus so he had given up his job to look after her. I commented that at that age with three serious illnesses the common cold would probably finish her off. My comment wasn’t published no doubt because it sounded too callous.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 2, 2020 9:08 PM
Reply to  Jane

Very true though!

Nimrod
Nimrod
Apr 2, 2020 9:19 AM

A very lucid and totally coherent analysis.

“The real problem we face today is not a virus. The greater problem is that people have failed to engage in critical thinking due to the fear promoted by some media and government officials.”

I couldn’t agree more.

Gall
Gall
Apr 2, 2020 8:21 AM

What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? Especially “do no harm”. Now it seems like the Hypocrites Oath. The “cure” worse than the disease. The operation was successful but the patient died.

I assume if they are running 24/7 about the “deadly” coronavirus that there is something else more sinister going on.

crank
crank
Apr 2, 2020 9:02 AM
Reply to  Gall

From Twitter somewhere:
‘To kill a fly we are burning down the house’.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 2, 2020 9:40 AM
Reply to  crank

Why does that immediately conjure up an image of Sergei Skripal’s house? 😀

Gall
Gall
Apr 2, 2020 10:58 PM
Reply to  crank

ROFLMAO!

CantMakeThisStuffUp
CantMakeThisStuffUp
Apr 2, 2020 7:13 AM

Is your meth contaminated with coronavirus? Some police departments will test it for you
(CNN) – Some police departments are putting out fake warnings that illicit drugs could be contaminated with coronavirus in an effort to make drug arrests.

“Please bring the drugs to the police department and we will test them for free,” Atlantic Beach police posted on its Facebook page on Friday. “If you’re not comfortable coming to the police department, we will send an officer to your house and they’ll test your illegal drugs in the privacy of your home! Please spread the word!”

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 2, 2020 11:34 AM

I take it that was put out on April 1st.

CantMakeThisStuffUp
CantMakeThisStuffUp
Apr 3, 2020 4:03 AM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Nope, early March.

fred
fred
Apr 2, 2020 3:47 AM

Anti-Vaxxer Biologist Stefan Lanka Bets Over $100K Measles Isn’t A Virus; He Wins In German Federal Supreme Court
“The judges at the German Federal Supreme Court (BGH) confirmed in a recent ruling that measles virus do not exist though. Furthermore: There is not a single scientific study in the world which could prove the existence of such virus so far. ”

The science on this is hard to understand, so at first he lost the case in lower court, but in higher court he won the case. Take note that the pro-vaccine websites only report his initial loss, they don’t talk about his victory later on. Think about that. And ask yourself the question what are they putting in the so called measles vaccine?

SteveEss
SteveEss
Apr 2, 2020 1:36 AM

I dunno… This article has a shaky foundation to begin with, and far too many estimates/projections to juggle competently all at once…

Obviously the answer to the title query is “Yes!” I’m not even gonna argue about the base premise of 155,000 cov-19 caused deaths… Nor the four critical areas of impact… I’ll play along…

But when the author extrapolates it all out using a mysterious multiplier of 6 years (it’s as if he plucked it out of thin air!), I’m out…

“Some think that the economy will recover in three years and others think it will never recover…” So the author ‘picks’ 6 years (makes perfect sense to me! 😆) Why not use 10, or 8, or 5, or 3, or… hey… how ’bout 1 year…??? One year it is…

CONCLUSION
cov-19 caused deaths = 155,000
cov-19 response deaths = 379,000 (×2.45)

So yeah, the answer’s still “Yes!”
‘Nuff said…

SteveEss
SteveEss
Apr 2, 2020 1:37 AM
Reply to  SteveEss

Sorry Off-G, no offense meant…
You can’t hit a home run every time…😊

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 3:51 AM
Reply to  SteveEss

Agree with what you say, Steve.

Kevin Ryan is a fake 9/11 whistleblower and this piece is a bit of priming propaganda. See my comment below – https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/01/could-the-covid19-response-be-more-deadly-than-the-virus/#comment-137929.

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Apr 2, 2020 7:40 PM
Reply to  SteveEss

Tell me oh wise one! From Jan 1 to March 20 of this year, how many deaths were from COVID and how many from seasonal flu, world-wide?
21,297 from COVID and 113,034 from seasonal flu.

Guess we better lock down the entire planet every flu season?

https://www.worldometers.info/

Stop falling for the fear mongering. The Deep State and its rabid pets, the CIA/MI6/Mossad are trying to get a war on with China, don’t let them lie to us like they did after 9/11.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Apr 2, 2020 5:09 AM

Thanks for the link Louie. If I run out of toilet paper I’ll be sure to print your article.

Gall
Gall
Apr 2, 2020 8:25 AM
Reply to  Gary Weglarz

Looks like that article is what’s on used toilet paper. Thanks Louis for more verbal diarrhea.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 6:09 AM

If you’re intellectually honest and courageous you will answer these questions. If not …

1. Do you believe that people can be miraculously cured of COVID-19 by the anti-malarial chloroquine as alleged by this 52 year-old “miracle survivor” who was “gaspin'”, “at the brink of death” and thought his “days were done”?
https://youtu.be/8QGXpeo2V9w?t=74

2a. If not, why do you think the media is publicising this story without issuing warnings?

2b. If yes, can you explain why you believe that?

jay
jay
Apr 2, 2020 6:24 AM

You called someone a ‘truther’, you’ve still to explain what you mean by this, thanks.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 8:11 AM
Reply to  jay

Yes, I want to know what you mean by that also.

A drive-by comment about ‘truthers’.

The word ‘truth’ generally has positive associations.

So, yes, Louis, what do you mean by ‘truther’?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 9:36 AM
Reply to  jay

“Truther”, “conspiracist”, “Assadist”, something called the “Baathist Amen Quarter” etc. They basically all mean “bastards”,”bastards”, “bastards” and “bastards”.

Reg
Reg
Apr 2, 2020 10:15 AM
Reply to  jay

The thing that baffles me about Louis and others of his kind is: what do they want out of life? What is it that they’re working towards?

Presumably they are human beings with human emotions, sentiments, desires, wishes and, I suppose, decency, right? They have children and they want to see these children grow up in a world that’s not wracked with cynicism, misery and despair, I should think.

So do they actually get up in the morning, see everything around them in flames and go: “Yeah, I fucking love this! How can I help to make it even worse?”

I’d bet most Off-Guardianistas are fed up with a world in which there seems to be no alternative but death and destruction. But for some reason Louis has made it his life’s work to direct every ounce of his energy to opposing this line of thought.

And he has an inexplicable hatred of C J Hopkins, a complete gentleman as far as I can make out. Someone who wants to live peacefully with his neighbours, whatever their nationality, creed, religious beliefs, race, etc. As most of us do.

So I’m really perplexed. What seems to be the motivating force in Louis and his band of brothers?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 12:22 PM
Reply to  Reg

“Thas nowt queerer than folk”

Yorkshire saying.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 2:15 PM
Reply to  Reg

What seems to be the motivating force in Louis and his band of brothers?

— they’re crypto-zionists, that’s what. that’s why they shill so hard for the destruction of Syria by the CIA’s drooling Wahhabi death squads, and the 9/11 false flag event that provided the pretext for the destruction of Iraq.

http://www.columbia.edu/%7Elnp3/mydocs/jewish.htm

Jane
Jane
Apr 2, 2020 6:01 PM
Reply to  Reg

You have to feel sorry for Louis. He writes long articles several times a week and never gets more than about five comments maximum. He must be jealous of sites like OffG. Interestingly, I read somewhere that he only started writing for Counterpunch around 2011, coinciding with the start of the war in Syria, and the subsequent decline in the quality of what appears in Counterpunch, of which he is now one of the editors and which I no longer read. I know for a fact, because I have contacted them, that the journalists Diana Johnstone and Rick Sterling received the same treatment from Counterpunch as CJ Hopkins.

Waldorf
Waldorf
Apr 2, 2020 7:56 PM
Reply to  Reg

Proyect is as far as I can make out an ex-leftie who hates the left, and tends to reinforce the current dominant ideas in society. Perhaps it’s lucrative, I don’t know. Poachers turned gamekeepers etc.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 8:23 AM

More proyectile vomiting from the alleged unrepentant ‘marxist’.
And you have the gall to call this site ‘conspiracist’ and full of ‘truthers’.
Look in the mirror Louis. Pot. Kettle?
I have a policy of ignoring your deluded rants, but this time am making one exception.
What a truly vile, repulsive peice of work you are. By the way, have you apologised to Vanessa Beeley yet?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 2, 2020 8:41 AM

Louis Proyectile and the salafist head-loppers-happy bed-fellows.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 9:33 AM

Your article isn’t total bollocks, Louis. The bits where you quote Peter Hitchens and Piers Robinson are good.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 2:06 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I find some fascinating stuff on this site but also stuff that stretches credulity.
But it would help if comments explained why this Louis is wrong rather than just throwing abuse in his direction. That only makes it appear to the casual reader (me) that he is speaking uncomfortable truth.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 3:42 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

what uncomfortable truth was he speaking? it’s just the usual guilt-by-association BS these people always employ, because they have no rational argument.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 8:32 PM
Reply to  milosevic

I’m only saying from reading the commenting policy;

‘BE POLITE. We understand debates get heated and we accept a certain degree of colourful language can creep in, but empty ad hom or extreme personal abuse is strongly discouraged.’
Now I haven’t visited this site much so maybe that policy is not really enforced but the replies to Louis are definitely full of gratuitous ad hom.
And it tends to make the casual reader wonder why it is necessary and why it is allowed.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 8:53 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

Ah Louis is always so civilised and polite – as here:

https://louisproyect.org/2015/06/08/a-reply-to-cult-leader-david-north-on-an-american-first-strike-on-russia/

Note first of all that the grotesque photo labelled “David North” is not in fact David North.

Now note:

If the CP was syphilis in Trotsky’s eyes, this tiny group is not much more than a case of the crabs.

The SEP (Socialist Equality Party) described as “the SEP-tic group” and further described as

a sideshow, a freak show to be more accurate, that only exists because David Green is a cockroach capitalist who can afford to pay the staff that blindly follows his diktat. What sorry scum you are.

He also described Vanessa Beeley as “too ugly to fuck”.

Now tell me again about gratuitous ad homs.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 9:25 PM
Reply to  George Mc

So they are allowed then? Ok!

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 10:07 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

Ask Louis.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 6:05 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

Well let’s just put it this way Gio – when a Marxist (and an unrepentant one at that) continually dishes up views that are indistinguishable from the government line and the mainstream media then I smell an enormous rat.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 8:24 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Well then if this site is making the same argument as far right sites as Louis says should you not also smell a similar rat?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 8:58 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

I certainly do – and it’s Louis again. This time with the old guilt-by-association. If Off-G agree with something Peter Hitchens said, that does not make them Tories. But Louis indiscriminately slaps on these labels anyway.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  George Mc

‘when a Marxist (and an unrepentant one at that) continually dishes up views that are indistinguishable from the government line and the mainstream media then I smell an enormous rat.’
‘ If Off-G agree with something Peter Hitchens said, that does not make them Tories.’

Surely it would be better just to address the actual views rather than tying yourself up in knots trying to second guess people’s motives?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 10:08 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

Again – ask Louis.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 2, 2020 11:33 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Ok thanks George.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 11:04 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I smelt an enormous rat about Louis ages ago. Repeated DDoS attacks on this site didn’t work.
Perhaps someone has sent out instructions for their gatekeepers to stick the boot into OffG? Throw mud so to speak.
My first rule of thumb is that any alleged ‘socialist’ or ‘progressive’ who is regurgitating establishment propaganda is neither, and a big red flag goes up with me.
Again, refer to Udo Ulfkotte and his revelations about bought journalists. Same applies to alleged ‘left figures’.

Waldorf
Waldorf
Apr 4, 2020 9:53 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I have encountered his writings on other forums and as far as he is concerned people who disagree with him are fools and knaves. I suspect a personality disorder of some kind. If he is that unpleasant in personal life he is a lonely individual indeed.
Mind you, keyboard warriors are often fairly meek in person – they have to be as this is the way to avoid getting beaten up.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 5:54 AM
Reply to  giordanobruno

Giordano (not your real name right?), I posed a perfectly civil question to him that he didn’t answer. A person with any intellectual honesty and courage always responds to questions that challenge their beliefs. Of course, he certainly isn’t the only one who doesn’t answer questions inconvenient to their beliefs. The people who do not answer questions inconvenient to their beliefs are far greater in number than those who do, unfortunately.

giordanobruno
giordanobruno
Apr 3, 2020 5:20 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra I don’t see any issue with your questions and he should try to answer them.
Other comments seemed to be pretty much ad hominem so I was just wondering about whether dissenting voices are tolerated.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 11:58 PM
Reply to  giordanobruno

I receive quite a few ad hominems on this site myself, giordano, and if you look at Louis’s website you’ll see he delivers them too. His last comment on Piers Robinson’s recent article was pretty antagonistic – https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/28/the-propaganda-of-terror-and-fear-a-lesson-from-recent-history/#comment-134817).

I think Louis invites ad hominems by his own antagonistic attitude whereas it seems I invite them merely because of my evidence-based claims that contradict people’s beliefs, the most notable one being that death and injury were staged on 9/11. People really take umbrage to that even though it’s the only thing that makes sense if 9/11 is an inside job – which it clearly is. The evidence for staged death and injury is also abundant. I push my argument as best I can and delight in the lack of censorship. The ad hominems one takes on the chin while plodding on with one’s message of truth. I wonder what you think stretches credulity. Anyway, as you’re new I shall give you my webpage on the evidence for staged death and injury on 9/11 because I think it’s a key fact of recent history.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

My quote from Giordano Bruno on my website is:

It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.

You’re always going to receive ad hominems when you express beliefs and ideas different from others.

Trots-R-Us
Trots-R-Us
Apr 2, 2020 5:38 PM

I visited your site for the first time Louis. I noticed on the right-side panel you have a list of articles shown under the heading of “blogroll”

Trots-R-Us
Trots-R-Us
Apr 2, 2020 5:42 PM
Reply to  Trots-R-Us

The strikeout text function is not showing clearly above, so let me absolutely clear now:

blogroll bogroll”

RobG
RobG
Apr 2, 2020 12:45 AM

The western media’s propaganda campaign against China has started to reach a fever pitch over the last few days. This is probably why…

https://www.brecorder.com/2020/03/17/580793/pakistan-china-and-russia-decide-to-conduct-trade-in-local-currencies-skip-dollars/

The rapid collapse of the petrodollar is a wonder to behold. The psychos will now, of course, try to start a world war against Russia and China.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Apr 2, 2020 1:32 AM
Reply to  RobG

Thanks for sharing that link Rob.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 12:02 AM

I fail to understand why the fundamentals of what is happening are not faced square on.

The alleged COVID-19 pandemic is a massive psychological operation (psyop) sharing hallmarks such as ridiculous stories of “miracle survivors” and other obviously deliberate nonsense that they push out in their psyops.

We knew from Day One with the alleged Chinese cobras, many-banded kraits, pangolins, foxes, bats and hedgehogs being a reservoir, people falling flat on their faces, people laid out in the streets and on hospital floors, empty buildings said to be converted to hospitals within 48 hours with unconvincing visual evidence provided, etc.

We also know from pre-pandemic activity – Event 201, the tabletop pandemic exercise, so very coincidentally held in October last year, CDC advertising for quarantine officers in November, and we know from the entertainment industry with films such as Contagion and Simpsons episode, The Fool Monty, S22/E6.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

Kevin Ryan is an alleged 9/11 whistleblower, sacked from his job, but is, in reality, a controlled opposition agent whose role, shared by so many others, is to stagnate the truth of 9/11 by maintaining the fiction of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured. While truthers are armed with the truth of controlled demolition but with the lie of real death and injury they won’t get anywhere as the general population will not accept the US government would kill their own citizens in this manner (other ways but not this) – the very idea is utterly taboo – and in this the general population is completely correct, the US government MO would never be to kill the people, 9/11 was a psyop, and in psyops you do not do things for real unless you want them for real, especially not killing 3,000 of your own citizens so very obviously, and so, of course, they psyopped us into believing this lie just as they psyopped us into believing all the other lies about 9/11.

This article is an example of priming propaganda (Contagion and the Simpsons, Fool Monty, are also examples):

Priming is a technique whereby exposure to one stimulus influences a response to a subsequent stimulus, without conscious guidance or intention.[1][2] For example, the word NURSE is recognized more quickly following the word DOCTOR than following the word BREAD. Priming can be perceptual, associative, repetitive, positive, negative, affective, semantic, or conceptual. Research, however, has yet to firmly establish the duration of priming effects,[3][4] yet their onset can be almost instantaneous.[5]

As George Mc points out in a comment on another article:

When you’re done reading the article, this is what you’ll take away:
• The coronavirus is coming to you.
• It’s coming at an exponential speed: gradually, and then suddenly.
• It’s a matter of days. Maybe a week or two.
• When it does, your healthcare system will be overwhelmed.
• Your fellow citizens will be treated in the hallways.
• Exhausted healthcare workers will break down. Some will die.
• They will have to decide which patient gets the oxygen and which one dies.
• The only way to prevent this is social distancing today. Not tomorrow. Today.
• That means keeping as many people home as possible, starting now.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 2, 2020 1:26 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

This would all be “faced square on” if it were not the case that the “authorities” (NWO), along with the western governments they have infected far more insidiously than any CoVid has done, have an interest in manipulating the crisis to conceal their past, present and planned misdemeanours under its cover. For example:
1. Government insisting upon carrying on as if real money existed, despite the current financial chaos resulting from the fact that it doesn’t.
2. Governments anxious to see Julian Assange die as soon as possible (of “Corona”?), without wishing the charge of outright murder to be on everyone’s lips.
3. The effective scare-mongering of the people into remaining in their homes so that they will not join the popular Gilets Jaunes.
4. The putting into place new systems of crowd control which will not be removed when CoVid subsides, as it will.
5. The focusing of the population’s attention on CoVid, and CoVid alone, so that people will be even more ignorant of what is actually going on in the world.

Quite apart from all that, the 3,000 architects and engineers, who support AE911Truth and who are well-enough qualified to judge professionally and scientifically, are well aware of the real deaths which occurred due to the controlled demolitions, and they also have bereaved parents among their many followers. They have no possible reason to belittle the death statistics, and simply want a proper investigation, an investigation which has still not been carried out. There is no need to distract us with the fact that there are always plenty of ill-informed trouble makers who would like us to look at their pink, green and purple squirrels, while the serious matter of 911 investigation is pursued.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 2:20 AM
Reply to  wardropper

I’m really baffled wardropper at how people do not understand certain fundamentals of psyops. When it was first explained to me I had no doubts because the evidence clearly fitted what was explained.

I’ll go through them and pose questions that I’d appreciate your answering the last question after mentally going through the first eight.

Psyop characteristic 1
They always give us the clues in such things as ridiculousness, eg, the second plane popping out of the South tower, terrorists popping up alive and in the case of COVID-19, the Chinese cobra and the many-banded krait being reservoirs, people being cured of the virus by the anti-malarial chloroquine.

Q1. Do you agree that they always give us clues?

Psyop characteristic 2
They never fake anything so well that it can be used by a believer of the story to brandish it in support of it – they are utterly meticulous and scrupulous in this. I have issued a $5,000 10-point Occam’s Razor challenge to come up with 10 points on various events/sub-events, one of them being the claim of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured on 9/11. No one has responded to this challenge. https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/5000-challenge.html

Here is a photo of an alleged dead body (warning: gruesome) on 9/11, however, it is obviously fake.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/dead-body.html

Q2. Do you agree that this body is fake and do you agree that they could have used a real dead body or a much more realistic fake body but they obviously chose not to do that?

Q3. Assuming that death and injury were real, how do you explain this fake dead body?

Q4. Do you, yourself, have a skerrick of evidence that favours the hypothesis of 3,000 dead, 6,000 injured over staged death and injury?

Q5. If you agree that the body is fake and you don’t have a skerrick of evidence that favours 3,000 dead/6,000 injured over staged death and injury what is your reason for believing that claim, especially considering all the other lies you know were told about 9/11?

Q6. Do you think they had any reason to kill 3,000 and injure 6,000?

Q7. Do you think they wouldn’t have been able to psyop us into believing the claim of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured and what is your reason for believing the lack of ability to psyop that lie?

Q8. If you agree that they would have been able to psyop us, why would they have chosen to do it for real rather than psyop us?

Q9. Please answer in writing: Why do you believe in real death and injury on 9/11?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 4:13 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Just one more question, wardropper.

Does the notion that death and injury were real on 9/11 feel more comfortable to you than the notion that they were staged?

If yes, why do you think that might be?

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 2, 2020 4:31 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

1) How do you fake things so well that there are no clues that it was not real?
2) That is gross.
3) Perhaps they didn’t want an identifiable body. Agreed it proves skullduggery but not necessarily that no one was killed.
4) Personally no evidence but how did they bring down the buildings without killing the occupants? What reason do you have for stating that the buildings were unoccupied when when it would be natural for them to be occupied at that time?
5) It was a staged terrorist attack that is the point of it.
6) Psychopaths staged a terrorist attack. It would be remarkably suspicious if no one died it.
7) The burden of proof might be on you. Some people at least were visible in the buildings following the hits by the so-called planes. You seem to be making a huge assumption. That’s not necessarily to say you’re wrong but it would require that the buildings were empty and that this had been kept secret to this day.
8) The psyop would be too difficult
(probably). Also they are probably not the nicest of people.
9) It is overwhelmingly likely. The perpetrators place no value on human life. Real death would be a bonus when it came to advancing their sinister agenda.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 5:08 AM
Reply to  Germs Bond

3. It doesn’t prove no one was killed, true, however, it favours the always two-part psyop hypothesis, “staged and they tell us it’s staged ” over “real”. “Staged+tell us” fits perfectly whereas for “real” we have to wonder why they showed us this fake body.

4. They brought down WTC-7 completely evacuated so why not the twin towers? As the plane crashes were faked the smoke we see in the buildings could have been confined to empty floors (or similar) so whatever they did to fake the alleged crashes they could have ensured had no impact on any people in the buildings and we can infer that there were few people in the buildings in the first place – lots of floors were said to be empty, it was before office hours, and I read that there were subway drills that would have prevented people entering the buildings anyway.

5. Not sure what your response means here. Yes it was a staged terror event, a psyop, they didn’t actually want to kill people, OK?

6. That doesn’t answer my question. Did they have a reason?

7. I’ve provided the evidence in 10 points and, as I say above, no one has responded to my challenge to provide 10 points favouring real over staged. https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

8. “The psyop would be too difficult.” Why?

9. Strawman argument. Why do people always pull out the strawman of “placing no value on human life” or some such. There can be a number of reasons that they faked it without considering the value they place on human life.

There are very good reasons they would have faked it.

1. It’s their MO. They love fooling us and they’re very good at it. This is the reason first and last really but the other two work too.

2. Too many people involved – this video set to the song, Free Fallin’, shows all the journalists on the day referring to controlled demolition. Do you seriously think that these journalists weren’t scripted? That they weren’t all controlled to say exactly what was wanted on that very fateful day. They always tell us the truth – in their own special way. We know for absolute sure that Brian Williams was because he says to EMS guy, David Restuccio, “Can you confirm it was No. 7 that just went in?” “Went in” is a term used in relation to implosions because the buildings fall in on themselves.

3. The loved ones of 3,000 obviously murdered by the US government would have gone absolutely nuts – while people swallow propaganda under normal circumstances when a loved one is killed, it’s a completely different matter. People will fight till their death for truth and justice in that situation. We do see loved ones but only a handful – easily explained as crisis actors.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 2, 2020 12:55 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Don’t get me wrong – I think that 9/11 stinks to high heaven, and I have never doubted that it was in some way an “inside job”. However, what do you say about the people leaping to their deaths from the burning buildings?

i.e. There definitely were some deaths.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 1:28 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Dummies, Mike.

Russ Winter’s article, World Trade Center’s Infamous 91st-Floor Israeli ‘Art Student’ Project, explains how Israeli students engaged in an “art project” on certain floors of the North tower, removed windows and took photos from helicopters. While we can infer that anything to do with Israelis at the WTC serves as propaganda both to distract from the primary culprits and to make the bombing of the buildings containing all those people more plausible with outsiders doing the dastardly deed, we can also see how the “art project” would have provided the footage of the jumpers to be inserted into the 9/11 story on the day.
https://www.winterwatch.net/2018/09/world-trade-centers-infamous-91st-floor-israeli-art-student-project-2/

In this video we see people at the windows with smoke, however, the smoke looks quite benign and also as if it is emanating virtually from the window itself at regular intervals as if being pumped from a machine. The lack of clarity of the people means they could easily be dummies.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 1:48 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

And just to add that the footage above would have been taken at another time. No doubt there was masses of pre-recorded footage in the “9/11 story”.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:30 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra the key words are I****i students. Dubya used this to invade Iraq for its oil and then went on to destroy prosperous Middle East countries who were turning against the petrodollar. Students or a Mo***d operation? I know which one I believe it is.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 11:26 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

See how good the propaganda is, Jo? I’m speaking of them as art students without quotation marks when obviously yes, Mossad.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 1:33 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Also, Richard Drew, the photographer of the so-called Falling Man which appeared on the cover of Time magazine, just happened to be behind Robert F Kennedy when he was assassinated to capture photos of that historic event – amazing coincidence, no?
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a48031/the-falling-man-tom-junod/

So brazen. He’s in the Hangman position.

Interestingly, this person who’s into tarot talks about the Hangman position of the jumper. She doesn’t believe it’s an inside job so it’s interesting how she recognises the position but just thinks it happened naturally.
https://www.thechannelling.co.nz/blog/911-and-the-tarot

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 2:29 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

— she claims that they were 13-foot tall dummies tossed out of the windows by deep-state operatives, so as to fool the public into thinking that people died, whereas nobody actually died throughout the whole operation.

no kidding, that’s what she actually thinks. or at least pretends to.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 11:28 PM
Reply to  milosevic

You are lying, milo. I recognised my mistake many of your lying comments on this ago. Please never refer to the 13-foot dummies again. I will reference this link and point to it each time you lie about it.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 5:16 AM
Reply to  Germs Bond

Forgot to respond to your response to Q1.

Huh? What I’m saying is that, counterintuitively, they actively don’t fake things so well and yet they can still fool us. That’s the paradox. They give us the clues that they’re fooling us – big ones, in fact – and yet we are still fooled. And this is not to mention the anomalies that occur naturally. So clever, no? I mean you gotta hand it to them, although really they don’t deserve much credit – the technique has been passed down through the centuries and I mean they get zero resistance from the plebs who are always at the ready with open mouths like baby birds to gulp down the propaganda … and censure and censor those who don’t.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

Germs Bond, you are right – the USA do not have any value at all for human life, none at all. Just look at their justice system. Winston Churchill (a charlatan and idiot) said something true, he said the mark of a civilised society is how it treats its prisoners. Well, just look at the USA prison system. It’s rank. However, you ask the right questions and that’s not to say that Petra is wrong. What is a fact is that the adjoining buildings to the World Trade Centre which housed high level Government officials appeared to be all empty at that time of the morning. The same with the Pentagon, the alleged plane that went into the side of it – was clearly a fake photograph but also, it happened to hit the side of the Pentagon which was closed for repairs and therefore, no staff were in it. Read the French journalist Thierry Messon – brilliant. What is brilliant about it is that he does not load the narrative with his opinion or interpretation – he literally just sets out all the publicly available information, all the interviews etc. There is an excellent video on YouTube by two 2o+year olds called Loose Change. Worth the watch if it is still up there.

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Apr 2, 2020 7:42 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Are you a CIA/MI6/Mossad asset or do you just like to scare the hell out of people?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 2, 2020 11:46 PM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

As soon as I saw the name first name Greg in my emails I knew it would be Greg Bacon, firefighter or alleged firefighter, and good old controlled opposition.

The oldest trick in the book, isn’t it, Greg? The controlled opposition calls out either other controlled opposition as controlled opposition to bamboozle people or they accuse the genuine people such as myself.

Perhaps you can explain, Greg, why the Firefighters for 9/11 Truth and Unity webpage looks as pathetic as it does, considering 343 firefighters allegedly died on 9/11 while the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth is so damn fancy … and we don’t know of a single architect or engineer who died on 9/11.
(See webpage below for links).

Point 9 on webpage, 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured a lie
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

Missing – expected evidence for the 343 firefighters who died on 9/11
On August 12, 2005, more than 12,000 pages of oral histories from 503 FDNY firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians were made public after The New York Times sued the City of New York for their release in response to the Bloomberg administration’s decision to withhold the records from the public.

The FDNY had recorded the oral histories between October 2001 and January 2002 at the instruction of the City’s fire commissioner, Thomas Von Essen, who wanted to preserve the accounts of the FDNY’s members “before they became reshaped by a collective memory.”

Following the release of the records, researchers began examining them for any evidence as to the cause of the Twin Towers’ destruction.

In August 2006, Dr. Graeme MacQueen, a retired professor from McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, published the article, “118 Witnesses: The Firefighters’ Testimony to Explosions in the Twin Towers.” In it, he identified 118 FDNY members (out of the 503 interviewed) who reported witnessing explosions that evidently—based on corroborating evidence—were the actual cause of the Twin Towers’ destruction.

I was all agog reading these “oral histories” at how they testified so conclusively to controlled demolition. The anomalous lack of reference to deaths of the firefighters’ 343 colleagues or to rescue operations did not cross my mind for a nanosecond. Like so many others I was all focused on the controlled demolition – which was, of course, the intention of the perps: distracting truthers with controlled demolition while keeping the focus off the equally important and necessarily complementary truth, staged death and injury. So clever. I love the touch that they wanted to preserve the accounts “before they became reshaped by a collective memory.” Of course, the reality was that as time passed the accounts might be different for reasons other than having been “reshaped by collective memory.” And the timing was good for future release. Take them shortly after 9/11 and then when all the truthers started to catch on make a big deal of withholding them before releasing them with all the evidence of controlled demolition flashing out at the reader.

It is also anomalous that the colleagues of the 343 firefighter victims (of a total victim count of 2,606 in the twin towers or 13%) who obviously recognise controlled demolition from their testimonies are not agitating about the deaths of their colleagues. Their website, Firefighters for 9/11 Truth and Unity is very muted – compare it to that of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

I believe that the testimonies are mostly genuine and I have no idea under what circumstances they were obtained but regardless – if 343 firefighters had died on 9/11 their testimonies would be different and they would surely be fighting for justice for them as would the firefighters’ loved ones.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 12:29 AM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

Oh, and Greg, perhaps you can explain the molten metal running down the “channel rails” that Philip Ruvolo and his mates are talking about in this otherwise excellent video made to the song, I Believe in Miracles, by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (it was clever and also nice of them to pay respect to David Ray Griffin’s “miracles” theme). It wasn’t molten metal at Ground Zero was it? https://youtu.be/71fwKA9Udso

I see Philip was in the film, Collateral Damages. They love connecting their events don’t they? “Collateral Damages” about the poor first responders suffering after 9/11 and “Collateral Murder” for the faked video of US soldiers shooting civilians in Iraq that Chelsea heroically leaked to Wikileaks.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368656/?ref_=nm_knf_t1

Another thing connecting 9/11 and Wikileaks are the fake FOIAs:
— 9/11 fake FOIA issued by the New York Times to New York City to get the “oral histories” released
— Reuters fake FOIA to the US Military to get the footage in Collateral Murder released

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Apr 3, 2020 1:58 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

This is getting very off topic. Would you mind steering it back round to deal with the issues ATL? Thanks. A2

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 2:38 AM
Reply to  Admin2

Sure. I really only wanted to make the point that Kevin Ryan is a 9/11 fake whistleblower from which we infer an intelligence asset and thus his article, as detected by George Mc, unaware of that fact, is priming propaganda. SteveEss also noticed strange extrapolations made in the article.

My other comments on the subject have simply been to others replying to my comment. And, of course, one is very much obliged to respond to controlled opposition accusing one of being an agent oneself and certainly to make the point resoundingly so it doesn’t look as though one is simply trading insults.

I certainly won’t initiate any more comments on the subject but if people reply to mine I hope you will feel it OK if I answer, however, when I do, I’ll mention that things are going too much off-topic and that I’ll engage no more beyond my response.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Apr 3, 2020 10:18 PM
Reply to  Admin2

And way off world, into Petra’s lavishly upholstered delusion-world. Skip over it, like me.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Apr 2, 2020 12:00 AM

With the massive increase in gun purchases in the US, there will inevitably be an increase in gun violence and fatalities.
We can be sure the paramilitary police forces are locked and loaded.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 2, 2020 10:39 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

Tish. Evidence/link ? This is as credible as a government covid19 prediction.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 1, 2020 11:30 PM

Title: COVID-19 Virus Conspiracy? Deceptive Agenda, Censorship, : Part 5 – Dr. Rashid A. Buttar

Worrying signs of YT censorship. If you find a worthwhile YT video, try to save it before it disappears.

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
Apr 1, 2020 11:47 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Torrent them, too, if you’re okay with that kind of thing.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 1, 2020 11:50 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Mike

I’ve watched Parts 3 and 5 and it is compelling stuff. I don’t feel in a position to comment on whether it is truly plausible (there are others far more astute than I am). Dr Rashid Buttar has what would appear to be a dodgy professional record but that doesn’t necessarily mean that what he says isn’t true.

For the benefit of others I suggest they watch the broadcast labelled Part 5 first as it puts everything in context and is the latest update. Basically Dr Buttar is saying that Covid19 is a hoax on a massive global scale in which “the [man made] virus is not the danger, but the remedy is”, this being a drive to forced mass vaccination, and the control and manipulation of whole populations of people. Among other things he cites evidence he has of fraudulent footage and lies about overrun hospitals. He claims the purpose in targeting the older generation is to avoid them receiving life insurance payouts as they exclude death during a pandemic and to recognise that they draw hugely on economic and social resources in an overpopulated world.

All very dramatic but quite possible in this world.

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Apr 1, 2020 11:21 PM

The Covid Reaction – an Electronic Stitch-up.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates announced on March 18, 2020 during a “Reddit ‘Ask Me Anything’ session” that he is working on a new, invisible “quantum dot tattoo” implant that will track who has been tested for COVID-19 and who has been vaccinated against it.

Gates is simultaneously working on the ID2020 Certification Mark, which according to pymnts.com utilizes “immunization to serve as a platform for digital identity”.

https://savedmag.com/bill-gates-quantum-dot-digital-tattoo-implant-to-track-covid-19-vaccine-compliance/

[repeated text removed. A2]

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Apr 2, 2020 1:21 AM
Reply to  Doctortrinate

Cheers – A2

Gall
Gall
Apr 2, 2020 8:31 AM
Reply to  Doctortrinate

Gates reminds me of geekier version Rockefeller. Who will save us from our “saviors”?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 11:20 PM

The devastation of small businesses will allow the parasite controlled hedge funds and vulture funds, being so generously funded by the private banking cartel the Federal Reserve and the bankster slum-lord Mnuchin, to buy them up wholesale on the cheap, just as they bought up millions of residential properties on the cheap after the 2008 controlled demolition of the economy. Disaster capitalism, the highest form of parasitism, at work, driven by insatiable greed and millennial hatred and contempt for others.

Guy
Guy
Apr 1, 2020 11:08 PM

This article is a moderate analysis of projected numbers ,unemployed,suicide and death due lack of healthcare .
Right now it does not bode well for an economic return to yesteryear .It might be a very bum by ride going forward.
At the very best ,we can hope that this economic depression coming straight for us all will be a turning point in the economic/political system that has brought here to start with.As the covid19 is probably just an excuse to crash a system that is no longer functional.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 1, 2020 11:02 PM

Much appreciate this Kit, and everything OffG has done on this. I also noted the warning from Dr Sucharit Bhakdi in his video the other day.
It’s now over 5 days since I had any income. I was selling The Big Issue mag in Australia (after my factory job was sent to China)
We have been told all mag operations are suspended until further notice.
I know of other New Zealanders who arrived in Australia in the last few years – and none of us are entitled to any welfare in Australia.
Perhaps over 200000 Kiwi’s plus all the overseas backpackers now stranded in Australia with no jobs and no income.
A young Kiwi lady who lost her job at The Body Shop told me she had barely 3 weeks rent money in her bank. I have the equivalent of about 13 weeks rent put away plus about 4 weeks of food at home.
It’s a very precarious situation to be in. It’s a bloody scary situation to be honest.
I’m trying to remain as calm as possible.
There will be many millions of us who will relate to this article.
Keep going on this OffG…

jay
jay
Apr 1, 2020 11:50 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

People are being bribed in the UK to ‘enjoy their confinement’, paid 80% of their wages.
I think many will have difficulties, much of the provisions appear half-assed.
Not all businesses will be protected…not all jobs
They could be corona free but on the streets. People do not know the horrible, one sided gamble that has been made for them. Until you have faced that, they are clueless. I have hit rock bottom, on the street…Thank Christ, He helped me.
340000 homeless on the UK streets, Boris cares, sure.
1000 died last year.
20000 froze to death.
I’ll thank God and Christ that I am not on the street, only through them are we saved and free.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 12:13 AM
Reply to  jay

I know Jay…. ‘walk a mile in my shoes’.
You were on the streets? That would have been so tough, especially in the UK (winter time). Did you ever sell The Big Issue or do odd jobs or anything?
I’ve never actually been on the streets, but have come very close few times.
The politicians only care about your vote at the next election.
Just found out then have been given a 3 month rent freeze from the housing organisation I’m with, then saw your reply. Right now I’m grateful and humble for anything that helps.
Appreciate your reply Jay😁

jay
jay
Apr 2, 2020 6:42 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Sometime ago, my relationship collapsed. I was in court (my own stupidity) then released with a warning, they’d lost my shoes. So there I was walking about town with no shoes, no where to go.
By providence, my father had came and found me. I still don’t know He had heard or how He found me. We had fallen out a while back. So, I did ‘face’ homelessness and I was on the street but only an afternoon.
I was mindless back then, eating hash and had fallen into degeneracy.
I have changed a lot since then, I did my engineering degree and found Christ…
I have never had such peace of mind.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 7:02 AM
Reply to  jay

Good Morning Jay😁… I like your comments, aye. Was just going back thru the last few stories on the Coronavirus.
Been coming on this site over 1.5 years, and never seen so many comments!
I can relate to parts of your reply, and have been thru the ringer myself so to speak.
I fully agree with you that it’s important to have faith… In a God, in a Higher Power, in something greater than ourselves. Especially in times like now.
I hope your day goes well, take care.

Ishmael
Ishmael
Apr 2, 2020 8:55 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah, the ‘Mulga Mumblebrain’ materialising here is a plagiarising phony-the real Mulga died of embarrassment some time ago, and resurrection is not expected.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 2:31 PM
Reply to  Ishmael

Ishmael… yes, correct, that Mulga from 2018 is no longer, finished, gone to that great pseudonym heaven in the sky…. But a.. And that’s all I can say.
As I said, my lips are sealed. Sorry😁

jay
jay
Apr 2, 2020 10:41 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Many thanks.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:46 PM
Reply to  jay

Jay, interestingly enough, I thank God also that I am housed. Lord Melvyn King – the former head of the Bank of England was on a Forum this morning with a couple of other financial bodies. When asked about Sunak’s financial intervention he said it was too complicated, too m any thresholds and too many restrictions. It should have been far more simple. Yet, Sunak has not made necessary changes to Universal Credit that would result in early payments, simpler assessments and proper rent payments although I have to say, he has made some changes to it to raise the cap on the rent threshold and introduced a new style Job Seeker’s Allowance which is far simpler. UC in this country has resulted in 150,000 deaths (confirmed by the DWP) of starvation, suicide, hypothermia, 500% increase in homelessness and other factors. Yet successive Tory Governments have refused to make any changes to it because you see, despite in the main being hard working people who have been made redundant due to this country being in recession for the past 4 years and the retail and manufacturing industry being in steep decline which will get worse post No Deal Brexit, they still believe us to be a bunch of scroungers, good for nothing lazy layabouts who are not worthy of any consideration other than something you would scrape off your shoe. The problem now of course is that all those Tory voters good and true are all losing their jobs and finding out the reality of UC. I will say this for Sunak though, he has made a decent attempt to at least alleviate some of the worse aspects of UC which I hope will remain in place.

RobG
RobG
Apr 2, 2020 12:21 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah, these are worrying times, but I for one remain optimistic. The coming weeks and months are going to be very difficult (to put it mildly) because the world is going through a major reset and life will never be the same again; but it’s a reset that badly needs to happen, and after the initial turmoil I firmly believe that things will settle down for the better, mad fool that I am.

At least you’ve got a little bit of a cushion behind you. A very large number of people have next to nothing and will be left totally destitute by the deliberate crashing of the global economy, which is why I think that there’s going to be major civil unrest, starting in the next few weeks.

I believe the psychopaths who rule us have badly overstepped the mark with this one, and they are going to pay a very high price for their criminality.

Hang in there; keep faith in your fellow humans; oh, and don’t forget to sharpen your pitchfork.

All the best

Rob
(from Revolutionary France)

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 12:55 AM
Reply to  RobG

Merci Rob…. I hear what you say, and appreciate your feedback. Right now, I wouldn’t mind being in a little village near Montauban, but my reality is I’m in a City of 5 million in the Southern Hemisphere.
Millions in United States are only 1 paycheck away from financial disaster.
I also believe there will be major civil unrest and riots as people become really desperate. And really hungry.
The Gilets Jaunes have given all of us a truly inspirational example of what can be done when people unite together…
Cheers Rob

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 7:59 AM
Reply to  RobG

don’t forget to sharpen your pitchfork.

for those who bittorrent:

https://yts.mx/movie/one-nation-one-king-2018

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:50 PM
Reply to  RobG

Hi Rob, pitchfork to hand, geared up to join civil unrest. Long live the Revolution. Liberte, Fraternite, Egalite!

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 2, 2020 8:22 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Thanks for the personal contribution Gezzah.

Any possibility of joining with other Kiwis there on a collective basis, in order to achieve something?

Best Wishes.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 9:57 AM
Reply to  clickkid

Thanks C😁. Yeah, there’s a Kiwi run social welfare group in Melbourne specifically dealing with Kiwi’s in Australia (Melbourne) who have lost jobs (with no access to Govt welfare benefits) or who are homeless.
I think there’s a NZ social group as well, but to date have been busy out selling the mag, and have done well enough with it that I havn’t needed any assistance.
I have had offers of help from a few of my Aussie customers tho.
But you’re right…. the old adage:
United we stand divided we fall. I do need to reach out to other people who are in a similar predicament.
And despite the lockdowns and other things, it is relatively calm now. In 2 or 3 months time, it won’t be. Maybe even less than that.
Appreciate your reply…

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah, here in the UK I too have been laid off but my employers, being decent people, have written to me saying when this is over they will reemploy me as they were very happy with my work. I have put a claim in for Universal Credit and it has taken me a week of day to day continuous telephoning to get through on the phone to arrange an appointment. I had to hold for 4hrs today to achieve this but at the end of the line was a really nice young women who sounded really demoralised as they were dealing with such a high volume of calls as to be rats in a lab situation. I thanked her for being on the end of the line and advised her things would pass if she could just keep her moral up she would stay sane. We had a bit of a joke. I am truly sorry to hear about your situation and your friend’s. You can’t get in or out of Australia at the moment. I cannot believe though that there is no help or support for you and your friend in this scamdemic – it’s inhuman to leave people homeless in a so called civilised society when there are remedies to avoid this. The one thing the UK and Aussie have in common is right wing, fascist governments put there by Murdoch’s press.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 2, 2020 10:17 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

Thanks for the reply Jo. As you pointed out, the Govt in Australia is made up of a far right pentecostal Christian, Scott Morrison as Prime Minister and some Cabinet Ministers who are, to be blunt, complete psychopaths.
Apparently, last week NZ Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern rang Morrison pleading to him to help Kiwi’s stuck here, and from my understanding he has refused to lift a finger and said ‘New Zealanders need to find their own way home’.
I have avoided the MSM filth as much as possible, so don’t know if that situation has changed. My passport expired last year, so I can’t even leave if I wanted to.
What was your job? Are you in London or another large City?
Pretty much everyone I know fully buys into what the authorities are doing, and just cannot see what has happened.
Sadly, they seem hypnotised by the MSM.
Homelessness and poverty are major consequences of Neoliberalism. And it is all based on greed. It’s an insidious ideology that is effectively socialism for the rich.
Appreciate your reply Jo, hope your weekend is okay.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 3, 2020 6:12 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Hi Gezzah, I work as a legal secretary in construction litigation. The company I work for is very professional with high standards and has a very low staff turnover. I hadn’t been there long enough to reach the criteria for the Government’s ‘furlough scheme’ – stood down with 80% pay. For London, it is not a large firm but a good one. I live in good ol’ suburbia outside London so commute by tube into work. God save me from evangelical born again Christians by the way especially USA ones. I am religious but in a main stream faith so to speak. I have met quite a few dissenters on my evening walks as it happens it just seems to me that nobody wants to say it publicly! Today, standing in the orderly queue in Marks and Spencers for food, I got chatting to a member of staff who was happily standing outside, feeling very cold allowing people in and out and who had a sense of humour. She said something and I said to her please not to ask me what I thought about this whole scam because it wouldn’t be very polite and I’d be killed by the mob. I did get in though that I thought it was the biggest load of doggy doo and scam in current modern history. She smilled and nodded her head and said agreed. I was most surprised then to find 2-3 people in the queue behind echo exactly the same sentiments. Do you think there is a huge underground of dissenters towing the line publicly but secretly questioning it on sites like these. Hope your weekend like mine is o.k. I was able to take the padding out of my cell today as it was getting too hot!!!

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 3, 2020 10:38 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

Hi Jo, thanks. Yes, I avoid the evangelical Christians as much as possible, tho when you’re out selling The Big Issue mag, you tend to be a bit of a beacon for them!
3 of my 4 grandparents emigrated to New Zealand from the UK (2 from England, one from Scotland and a grandmother from Ireland). I think my Nana came from the Bromley area in London, so that’s my connection with the UK.
So you get no income as well Jo? Can you apply for the dole? Didn’t realise you had to be employed a certain length of time to get the 80% pay…
In the last 2.5 weeks here in Melbourne, only met 2 people who verbally called this out as a scam, one had similar views to mine, that’s its to cover for the implosion of the financial system (used as an alibi) the other was quite angry and didn’t want to discuss it.
Sadly, a lot down here have become policemen and policewoman almost overnight. The shaming of people that dare go outside on a sunny day.
The level of groupthink here is just jaw dropping.
But, yes, like everywhere there are dissenters. They come on OffG! Or somewhere else I havn’t discovered yet.
It’s getting chilly down here, next couple days are rain.
Have an enjoyable weekend yourself Jo😁

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 1, 2020 10:55 PM

Part 4 of the one posted below.

There are a couple of others I think, which I have not viewed yet.

Gall
Gall
Apr 2, 2020 8:37 AM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Another video that discuss Covid 19 specifically since it was made before the panic-demic but does discuss how the technology can cause and exacerbate illness:

https://youtu.be/ol3tAxnNccY

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 1, 2020 10:45 PM

Grauniad health editor Sarah Boseley has published a half-informed piece in which she is forced to concede, at the end of her article, that the tests for Covid-19 are hugely unreliable.
Thus she undermines everything she’s written up to that point in “‘Absolutely wrong’: how UK’s coronavirus test strategy unravelled “.
She criticizes “mathematical modellers” when it’s precisely journalists and politicians who need remedial classes in basic numeracy.
And she genuflects to the personage, in all his sibilant nomenclature, of,Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, as if the stretched limo of a name somehow compensates for the ethnic cleanser’s lack of medical expertise. Though I suppose he has some experience in depopulation.
Boseley should have educated herself on this site before putting finger to iPad.

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
Apr 1, 2020 11:09 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Has the press taken responsibility for anything, ever? WMDs, phone hacking, Hillsborough, Syria?

It’s not their job to be sceptical. It’s their job to stenograph government press conferences.

This kind of crap is to create the illusion of actually putting some effort in.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 8:07 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

references, please.

Jane
Jane
Apr 1, 2020 10:40 PM

I just saw the headline in the Guardian that British American Tobacco are working on a plant-based coronavirus vaccine! The sub-heading was “Cigarette maker says tobacco plants offer potential for faster and safer drug development”. Isn’t it reassuring to think that BAT is so concerned about our health that they would try to develop a vaccine to keep us well.

Beer
Beer
Apr 2, 2020 4:20 AM
Reply to  Jane

April Fool article 🙂

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 1, 2020 10:18 PM

Wow, looks like Brendon O Connell’s channel has been shut down. Shame, he was really starting to produce some fantastic material, so far ahead of the curve that man. Bless you Brendon, I hope you are OK

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Apr 1, 2020 11:06 PM
Reply to  Mucho

The censorship will be ramped up more and more Mucho. Refer to 1984. Or Propaganda Watch (James Corbett)

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 1, 2020 10:17 PM

Another nail in rt’s coffin:

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/484696-eugenics-social-darwinism-coronavirus/

Those criticising the draconian measure are social Darwinists who don’t care about the elderly and the sick! Now if it’s true that the NHS is deliberately being sunk here (and I think it is) then it’s obscenely ironic that this moral outrage over abandoning the sick is being used to wreck a system there to help the sick.

But rt is a pathetic phoney opposition.

Reg
Reg
Apr 2, 2020 1:05 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I now thoroughly despise RT. Pity. I used to like reading it as a counter to the bilge from the UK and US.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 2, 2020 8:15 AM
Reply to  George Mc
Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 2, 2020 6:54 PM
Reply to  George Mc

George Mc – the NHS don’t give a damn about the elderly and don’t believe they should have access to health resources – they should be left in homes to die in pain, without treatment and without dignity is their view. They have said this publicly on numerous occasions. The NHS isn’t being sunk, it’s a failing organisation.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 2, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

They have said this publicly on numerous occasions.

Give me one.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Apr 3, 2020 6:19 PM
Reply to  George Mc

George Mc – I haven’t got enough technical knowledge on how to post links – but they have over the past 5 years, written articles in the Press about the elderly and the fact they shouldn’t take up resources and made comfortable. The reason there are so many older people in residential homes in this country is that the standard prescription for a Consultant for an older person that is even moderately frail is for social services to stick them in a home thereby saving the NHS district nurse money and hospital money. I will dig out some old articles that I hope I have kept and see if I can give you an audit trail you can follow. In fact, if you look at newspapers this week, the NHS are saying the elderly are being sent home without treatment and still being ill. I am telling the truth because I worked with the NHS for over 30yrs and know them to be an incompetent, failing organisation who have total contempt for the Elderly. That is in the Audit Commission report on the NHS – they say the NHS has a historical, deeply rooted, endemic contempt for older people which is evidenced in their treatment of them. I’ll find these things if I can and let you know.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 8:04 PM
Reply to  Jo Dominich

I have a mother who will soon be 90. She’s in good health for her age. But the sad inevitable fact is that she will die in the not too distant future. Where do old people go when they cannot look after themselves? The NHS is supposed to be a health service. And a hospital – especially at the moment – is an ideal place to catch something especially if it is underfunded and I know the NHS is. They, like all the public services, have been getting run down for decades now. And I know because I work with disabled people in a day centre for a local council. Each year for three years in a row, we were told there had to be a £20 million cut. The council have been trying to close down these places but the people have nowhere else to go for a social life. All of which reminds me of a remark by Noam Chomsky on the strategy of the govt re: public services (it was about America but it’s the same here): Defund, wait for the complaints to roll in and then sell of to the private sector.

But if you really want the NHS to become “efficient”, “competitive” and “cost effective” then this is for you:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/pdf/10.1377/hlthaff.23.3.37

We read about “increased challenge to the medical profession’s power.” And there was me thinking that the medical profession was what we were trying to help!

We read that “health care improvement requires a source of tension to overcome the inertia inherent in all human systems.” No more tender loving care!

And we read that we must “generate that constructive discomfort.” Nothing like a bit of “constructive discomfort” for a “health” service, eh?

Thus we can stop the NHS from failing by ruthlessly turning it into a profit machine. Of course we have to redefine the words “failure” and “success” in accordance with neoliberal practice whereby good care means taking care to ensure that the money is happy.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 10:15 PM

This – what we are being subjected to – mostly by out media – is terrorism in all but name.

And this is far more frightening than anything any extremist Islamic group could possibly dream up. Not only are the mainstream media gorging themselves on this like the demented rabid dogs they are, but even here perverted individuals on these comment threads are spreading horror stories.

It is hard to maintain one’s sanity sometimes amid all of this.

I shall soon finish for today. Sometimes it is important to get away from this completely for a while. I had a nice walk this afternoon and even saw a couple of friendly faces.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  John Pretty

PS: And just in case I was not making myself clear. I am not afraid of this virus. It is fear that is the issue at hand here.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 12, 2020 3:19 AM
Reply to  John Pretty

“It is fear that is the issue at hand here.”

It is fear of death that is the issue at hand anywhere. So stop fearing death. In some circumstances that is difficult–for instance those a loving, perhaps single, parent of highly dependent offspring, devoid of reliable friends or family in a compassionless milieu–but for too many whose fear arises from a surfeit of ego it is more an expression of the unquelled id (to use now-unfashionable terminology).

When Gertrude Stein was dying her companion Alice B. Toklas is said to have been distraught. “Oh Gertrude, Gertrude, what is the answer?” asked Alice. Gertrude opened one eye and growled at her: “What’s the question?” Maybe less apocryphal but maybe not, when Ludwig Wittgenstein was dying a group of his colleagues called to visit him, to find him lying with his eyes closed, groaning and clenching his teeth in what appeared to be significant pain. “What’s it like, Ludwig?” asked one of them. Ludwig looked at them then half closed his eyes again. “It’s wonderful,” he replied.

Your life is a process that is your glimpse of heaven. If you have chosen to bypass the opportunity and instead worship false idols, as they used to say in the near Middle East, or if you are constrained by circumstance to be filled with genuine loving worry for others who really do depend on you personally, it could be traumatic, but in either case it is your opportunity to experience that process’s final apotheosis, your last chance to love yourself as you are and this world as it is.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 1, 2020 10:08 PM

All you hear from Trump supporters: “Trump, Trump, Trump”

All you hear from Trump haters: “Trump, Trump, Trump”

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 1, 2020 10:45 PM
Reply to  clickkid

And he’s lovin’ it!

Cicatriz
Cicatriz
Apr 1, 2020 10:54 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Indeed, it is nearly as tedious adhds posts.

John Pretty
John Pretty
Apr 1, 2020 9:39 PM

says a bot.

crank
crank
Apr 1, 2020 9:20 PM

It all seems somewhat after the fact, but for the record I guess, Whitney Webb starts her series of tying up the loose ends. Anyone who took the nerd route of studying 9/11 and the 2001 Anthrax attacks will recognise the names : ‘Dark Winter’, ‘Jerome Hauer’, ‘Kagan’, and so on. The PNAC neocons run like a thread connecting that and this, so much so that COVID is best named ‘9-11 part III’ (part II being the anthrax attacks).
We owe Whitney.
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/all-roads-lead-dark-winter/

Guy
Guy
Apr 1, 2020 11:45 PM
Reply to  crank

Thank you for this link .This is a mind blowing report from someone I trust ,Whitney Webb and Paul Diego of which I am not familiar with.
Whitney is indeed extremely good at what she does or is in contact with someone very deep on the inside to know and divulge same.
She does good work.She is also on my PATREON subscribed list .

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 3, 2020 2:10 PM
Reply to  crank

Crank, You know that the PNAC document was aimed at truthers to propagandise them into believing that the strength of their agenda was so great they’d kill the people in the buildings – 9/11 was a psyop not a false flag and truther-targeted propaganda has played a massive role. The anthrax attacks were also a psyop – and a super ludicrous one at that.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/anthrax-attacks-after-911.html

beer
beer
Apr 1, 2020 9:13 PM

Thank you for this. Health economists tend to compare life years rather than deaths. Under that convention, the death of somebody who only has a few months to live is given a lesser weight in the total than the death of a young person with no chronic conditions.

The Imperial College team reckoned on 500,000 deaths in the UK if no action was taken, and knowing that most of the people who die from the disease are in their 70s or 80s with chronic illnesses, let’s assume that they would otherwise live a further 5 years on average. So, under the no action taken scenario we would then have 500000 * 5 = 2.5 million life years lost.

There’s the study referenced here that says that a 6.4% drop in GDP leads to a 3 month decline in life expectancy across the population. For the UK that would be 66 million * 0.25 = 16.5 million life years lost.

Those calculations can of course be challenged but clearly it’s very possible that the cure is far worse than the disease. It’s wrong – potentially, disastrously wrong – to attach zero weight to the life years lost through the lockdown, as the media, some politicians and medics have been doing. Particularly where there’s an alternative policy of selective isolation, as practiced in Sweden and until recently in the UK, that protects the vulnerable while keeping the economy going.

jay
jay
Apr 1, 2020 9:39 PM
Reply to  beer

I think that it is all overhyped from end to end.

crank
crank
Apr 1, 2020 9:45 PM