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The Great Viral Debate

Drs Denis Rancourt and Tim Anderson exclusively on OffGuardian

Tomorrow (Sat Oct 10) we launch the first round of our Covid19 debate featuring Drs Tim Anderson and Denis Rancourt.

The global response to COVID-19 has been dominated by national and international responses involving unprecedented attempts to suppress and eliminate the virus. The responses have been controversial, however, and some scientists have questioned their wisdom and advocated herd/community immunity responses. In October 2020, a collection of scientists advanced the Great Barrington Declaration calling for an end to existing strategies based on suppression and/or elimination.

From a political perspective, a notable feature of debate in the Western sphere has been a tendency to, rightly or wrongly, associate the suppression/elimination strategy with liberal/left-wing politics whilst the herd/community immunity approach has been linked with conservative or right-wing politics.

In order to critically evaluate these issues two leading voices, Dr Tim Anderson and Dr Denis Rancourt, have been invited in order to rationally and respectfully explore these important issues. The proposition to be debated is as follows:-

Does SARS-COV-2 merit suppression measures in order to combat the virus rather than the herd/community immunity approach?

The aim is to help critically unpack the rationales, both political and scientific, that underlie these very different approaches. The debate will evolve over a period of time, with written online dialogue between Dr Anderson and Dr Rancourt.

OffGuardian are the official host for this debate and Dr Piers Robinson will undertake Chair responsibilities, ensuring rules of rational debate are followed.

About the participants…

Denis Rancourt

Denis Rancourt holds B.Sc., M.Sc. and Ph.D. in Physics (University of Toronto). He was a tenured Full Professor of physics at the University of Ottawa for 23 years.

Dr. Rancourt has been an invited plenary, keynote, or special session speaker at major scientific conferences some 40 times. He has published over 100 research papers in leading peer-reviewed scientific journals, in the areas of physics, chemistry, geology, materials science, soil science, and environmental science.

He is a frequent media commentator. His medical, political and social theory articles and interviews are published in many venues, such as Dissident Voice.

His recent video interviews and reporting videos about the science of the COVID-19 epidemic and the science of face masks for preventing viral respiratory diseases have been viewed more than 2 million times, in both French and English.

* * *

Tim Anderson

Tim Anderson is Director of the Sydney-based Centre for Counter Hegemonic Studies. His PhD thesis (Macquarie University, 1997) was on economic liberalisation in Australia.

He worked as a lecturer and senior lecturer at Australian universities for more than 30 years, teaching, researching and publishing on: human rights in development, customary land in Melanesia, small farming and food security, health systems and infectious disease, Cuban medical internationalism, self-determination in development, independent regional integration and resistance to the wars of the 21st century.

In 2014 he was awarded Cuba’s medal of friendship. He is the Australia and Pacific representative for the Latin America based Network in Defence of Humanity.

His book ‘The Pandemic and Independent Countries’ will be published in late 2020..

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Magumba
Magumba
Oct 12, 2020 9:02 PM

The sound of violins in here is drowning out the crackle of the flames

David Macilwain
David Macilwain
Oct 12, 2020 2:13 AM

If this is to be a meaningful debate, there has to be some recognition of the boundaries beyond which both sides cannot go. The only way to define this can be with science – which is quite clear on issues on things like mask efficacy, genetics and drug treatments – however much these are disputed. From my perspective these things are simple – masks don’t work and can’t work, the Sars-cov-2 virus is a chimaera synthesised for bioweapon research which escaped from Fort Detrick last July, and early treatment with HCQ and AZM would have prevented this “scamdemic”. The arguments on these things are clear and with multiple evidence from different countries, so it is unnecessary to postulate that the virus doesn’t really exist, or isn’t creating immunity in the population where it is allowed to. Making such arguments only destroys our chance of persuading anyone who has an open… Read more »

Rhesus Chr1st
Rhesus Chr1st
Oct 11, 2020 3:21 AM

My 2 cents

kevin king
kevin king
Oct 10, 2020 5:58 PM

It’s a pity neither of these ‘experts’ have bothered to read this. The paper the Chinese CDC put out claiming they had ‘discovered’ a novel virus. A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095418/ scroll down to just above the Methods section where you can read this gem. “The study provides a detailed report on 2019-nCoV, the likely aetiological agent responsible for the ongoing epidemic of acute respiratory syndrome in China and other countries. Virus-specific nucleotide-positive and viral-protein seroconversion was observed in all patients tested and provides evidence of an association between the disease and the presence of this virus. However, there are still many urgent questions that remain to be answered. The association between 2019-nCoV and the disease has not been verified by animal experiments to fulfil the Koch’s postulates to establish a causative relationship between a microorganism and a disease. We do not… Read more »

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 7:55 PM
Reply to  kevin king

They found it in all sick patients. If you assume a virus causes it then this seems to be the most likely cause. They also found Sars-Cov and had more other outbreaks to learn from. And they openly, honestly state they didn’t prove the connection between the virus and the disease. They don’t need to check if it can be transmitted. How else would all of them have it? Born with it? The proper question is if the disease is transmittable and if it is the disease we all talk about. Nr of sick ppl is much lower than the claimed nr of cases. But does the similar cases of respiratory problems, body overreactions as cytokine storms, sepsa coexisting with blood coagulation, temporary loosing of taste and smell in so many countries now doesnt ring a bell in your head? They purified it enough to show you a true RNA… Read more »

Terry
Terry
Oct 10, 2020 8:07 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

Not real enough or rigorous enough for me.

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  Terry

Being critical is a good trait. As long as you look for a real truth until finding it, not to disprove something lacking proof and inconvinent to make the opposite claim, sticking to an equally baseless “truth”. Better to stay without opinion, open than risk being wrong. Caution is usually the smartest thing to do 😉

annette
annette
Oct 11, 2020 2:15 PM
Reply to  Terry

Terry, Read my response to SzymonMazury. Indeed its not rigorous.

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 10, 2020 8:26 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

“Born with it?” That’s certainly a possibility. Since the RNA sequence they’re testing for has been found in fruits and birds and who knows what else, the most plausible explanation is that it’s something occurring naturally in living organisms. Moreover, the vast majority of people who test positive for this have no symptoms. There is nothing wrong with them. At the same time, it has never been proved that the RNA sequence, allegedly a “virus”, causes any disease. They’re not testing people for anything else. How do they know that the whatever the small number of people who do test positive are suffering from is caused by this alleged SARS-CoV-2? Since most people have no symptoms, it would be safe to conclude that their disease is caused by something else. Be it as it may, it’s utterly preposterous that such draconian measures are being taken around the world based on… Read more »

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 9:47 PM
Reply to  Jacques

Good points! Leaving aside the chickenegg problem, plants aren’t so much different than animals whats very problematic… most ppl aren’t even aware of it. If it doesn’t give symptoms how is it a disease then? Disease is something what makes body sick, disfunctional. If it doesn’t its not a bug but a feature… And this is one of points on that 4 But medical herd driven by cases and not the actually symptimatic disease is about to change the rule… Example we had with Zika fearmongering. Soon Zika diseases won’t be all moms with children with unnaturally small heads or limbs who got asymptomatic Zika but all 130 millions+ worldwide cases even outside mosquito zones… This is the problem – rules dilution to contain whatever interpretation you want to have. “Since most people have no symptoms, it would be safe to conclude that their disease is caused by something else.”… Read more »

elle
elle
Oct 14, 2020 8:47 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

Please give us all a break..

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 12:49 AM
Reply to  Jacques

No correlation between testing positive and being sick. Correlation is not cause, but cause requires correlation.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 12:44 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

No, they filtered the sick patients according to the result of the test. They withdrew medical services from the non-positive patients, letting them die. They publicised the very few sick, boosting their numbers with lots of non-sick patients, found by testing random healthy people.

No wonder the UK is going down the drain if you can’t spot a scam.

annette
annette
Oct 11, 2020 2:13 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

None of the experiments have proved the following thesis wrong: that viruses are not particles produced by our own cells, possibly to self-repair. That people living in similar conditions (esp. atmospheric) should put the same stress on their ‘milieu interieur’ is perfectly reasonable, and hence that their bodies should attempt in similar ways to self-repair. That the viruses are attacking from the external environment has not in any way been evidenced. Besides, if you read about the experiments, then you will see that there are multiple issues with the type of sequencing used. This type of sequencing does not in the least purify.

Enki
Enki
Oct 11, 2020 7:08 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

No statistical methods were used to predetermine sample size. The experiments were not randomized and the investigators were not blinded to allocation during experiments and outcome assessment. Do you not see a major problem here?

kevin
kevin
Oct 10, 2020 5:31 PM

Ruptly feed of Berlin protests

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 6:49 PM
Reply to  kevin

Is it over?

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 10, 2020 4:51 PM

This is a debate for the sake of debating because there’s no surety that viruses exist. Off Guardian has its head in the sand just like the general society. The real question: can we operate decently in any context when our premises may be false? It seems that that question is disallowed everywhere, including here, because too much self-facing enters. Facing one’s propensity for irrationality fully – the big non-no, illustrated right here on OG.

kevin king
kevin king
Oct 10, 2020 5:52 PM

Exactly. There’s absolutely no question about SARS-CoV-2. It doesn’t exist. It hasn’t been purified and ZERO experiments have been done to prove it can be transmitted between animals or humans. They admit as much in the papers they have published. Unfortunately only a very few people actually read these papers. This is what 20 years of social media does to a society. All critical thinking has been eliminated..

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Oct 10, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  kevin king

I’d like a few links to them papers so I can send to normies who fall for the covid con..

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 10, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

Check out also a voice of reason; Dr Andrew Kaufman.

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 10:22 PM

The one who claims he proven that measles virus doesn’t exist in court based on his own ridiculous bet & impossible to meet subjective condition that the proof must be in one paper only while it was in a collection of 7 papers ec? The court never proven his claims but he claims opposite. And this is a credible voice of reason? Because of such cheap tricks this side of science is getting hammered for not being scientific. And because of such cases comes stigmatization and it is do hard to get the good studies.

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 12:41 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

It was Lanka who went to court. And you know better than him. I doubt it.

scowie
scowie
Oct 11, 2020 3:11 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

That was Dr. Stefan Lanka and his conditions were perfectly sensible and logical and haven’t been met because the viral disease paradigm is a massive fraud. No virus sample has ever been shown to cause greater disease than a control that contains the same toxins used to culture or store the virus sample. Controls are a basic tenet of scientific investigation yet are entirely absent from any studies that claim viruses cause disease. In virology there are no good studies. It can’t really be called a science at all. Any stigmatization this field gets is perfectly warranted.

His assessment of this coronavirus farce is worth reading:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/dr-stefan-lanka-2020-article-busts-virus-misconception/5719146

elle
elle
Oct 14, 2020 8:53 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

forgotten the way back to your bridge…?

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 8:25 PM

OffGuardian makes exactly this mistake claiming the virus is a matter or belief while something actually was sequenced & exist. All the rest i actually a good debate without baseless questions. If viruses doesn’t exist and aren’t viral then what was smallpox/blackdeath, what killed all these people claimed to die for hispanic flu (being a double wave of american flu) what was mass murdering Indians in both Americas on european arrival? What killed ober 30% of Romans? A toxin? Unfresh bread? Fungus? Je.wish conspiracy? Or was is a mass hallucination? Why nations were convinced of existence of bioweapons and researched it? Explain it to me? You may ask if viruses kill or cause diseases. But you ask & claim something what for any modern men seems outlandish in context of majority of western medical & common knowledge. Asking too deep questions is impossible in any age or culture. Most of… Read more »

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 12:44 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

You can’t accept possible radical change in the understanding of what disease is, so you’re defensive.

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 1:48 PM

I accept logic and arguments. If you want to change majority view you need to be defensive as they are & present a stronger science & arguments powerful enough to shake majority view & ones not easily refutable by lazy authorities. You need a bulletproof evidence. New theory needs to be backed up by a falsification experiment which either debunks the original theory as false (what is impossible if the theory is based on faith in something nonexistent) or proves the new theory as at least equally well describing & explaining reality. scowie presented his comprehensive criticism to viral theory what is good enough for me to shake my views & at least accept a possibility of existence of a different theory. But isn’t a proof itself yet. Problem is not only in mainstream ortodoxy but also in easily accepted analogies – the viral theory copies bacterial diseases theory framework… Read more »

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

OK, now we’re moving together. I think basically we literally don’t know what we’re dealing with – by ‘we’ I mean scientists also – and this deep confusion and uncertainty marks our collective behavior very badly. Thus, it’s not ‘them over there’ versus ‘us over here’. It’s everyone glimpsing the void, so to speak. The whole world more or less has gone off the rails since March.It seems unprecedented to me and is deeply disturbing. Perhaps the Earth is kicking us off…?

scowie
scowie
Oct 11, 2020 3:51 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

Smallpox was caused by bed bug bites & poor sanitation, as supported by the observations of Dr. Charles A. R. Campbell: http://www.reformation.org/variola.html In poor sanitary conditions bed bugs could effectively be injecting faeces into the skin as they fed on a person causing the eruption of pustules. There have been reports of people still getting it fairly recently in the Third World despite the disease supposedly having been eradicated. It actually wasn’t a deadly disease originally. It was the interventions of the physicians of the day that killed smallpox sufferers, like blood-letting, mercury pills and other poisons. Smallpox vaccination killed many too — the native population of Hawaii was decimated with them. The Black Death was supposedly bubonic plague which is another disease of poor sanitation that is spread by the fleas of rats and still turns up today in places lacking adequate sanitation. I do wonder if it might have had another cause… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 11, 2020 7:48 AM
Reply to  scowie

It’s like the animal farming industry: crowding as part of efficiency and profit lead to animal disease, misused medicines, biocides, human disease, etc. In the case of people, low wages, unaffordable medicine, gentrificatiuon, destitution, etc. lead to more disease via crowding.

The overlords think they have a solution, a final one.

Capitalism cannot be reformed.
https://www.unz.com/jcook/why-is-the-world-going-to-hell-netflixs-the-social-dilemma-tells-only-half-the-story/#comment-4214061

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 4:52 PM
Reply to  mgeo

I wd add people didn’t reform and they get what they tolerate to get. That’s first side. If they buy the cheapest offer in shop and doesn’t care about quality of content inside (having unscientific belief that some sanitary unit, centralised gov body is taking care about them and the conserwants maximal healthy doses ec). And companies shouldnt be blamed for just obeying law and doing what is free to do… This comes also from poor public education and lack of criticism teached in schools – which by definition became uniform killing any signs of free thinking. And this builds a poor quality of decisions making majority in partially democratic systems (not that its any better in a autoritarian systems as chinese) – partially because of only partial once in 4-5 years decision making. But it is far from being a true democracy as in Switzerland (where citizens doesn’t know… Read more »

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 3:06 PM
Reply to  scowie

Good questions & criticism brings a good discussion material. Thank you & ask for more sources for each case explaination!(smallpox vax decimating in hawai source please – english is not my native lang so its very troublesome for me, while im sure it will help you in future discussions too) “A failure of the fruit crop in any particularly large area is always followed the succeeding winter by the presence of smallpox. My experience is limited to eighty-eight cases of that disease in the Pest-House, and my attention has constantly been directed to the establishing of the fact of the non-contagiousness of fomites and to the prevention of the pitting or pocking by the malady. That the pitting or pocking can be positively prevented I am absolutely certain, for in the above number of cases I had only one patient who became pocked and this was done intentionally. In all… Read more »

Enki
Enki
Oct 11, 2020 7:26 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

now we getting somewhere. Good discussion. willingness to entertained others point of view is key.

scowie
scowie
Oct 12, 2020 4:46 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

The Hawaii thing I got from here: http://whale.to/v/leprosy.html

Hansen’s disease, aka leprosy, was one of the diseases caused by smallpox variolation. Syphilis was another:

http://whale.to/vaccines/smallpox10.html

elle
elle
Oct 14, 2020 9:58 PM
Reply to  scowie

Thank you for your insight…truely.

Enki
Enki
Oct 11, 2020 7:21 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

The spanish flu was caused by the massive amount of vaccines given to young men coming back from the war. Vaccine poisoning. The spanish flu killed mostly young people.The native americans was mass murdered by Europeans who destroyed their food supplies and massacred them. No disease required. The Incas empire was already collapsing by the time the spanish arrived.As for the older die off we do not know enough to know how or why they happened.There is no evidence bacteria causes disease. None at all.

Ken Garoo
Ken Garoo
Oct 10, 2020 4:46 PM

Dr Malcolm Kendrick has an article about the prospective vaccine:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/10/10/a-sars-cov2-vaccine-dont-hold-your-breath/

In summary, the full phase III testing (with ~30,000 patients) won’t be complete until late 2023. The plan seems to be to go ahead directly from Phase II testing (based on 30 to 80 patients depending on vaccine team involved). The criteria for a ‘successful’ vaccine is not full immunity or anything close, but slight reduction of symptoms, e.g. headache, cough.

This is basically no better than aspirin/paracetomol/cough medicine but with the prospect for very signiificant side effects (cf permanent brain damage in the 2009 ‘experiment’).

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 10, 2020 10:10 PM
Reply to  Ken Garoo

Becuase their approach is focused on Bcell antibodies… while the effective antiviral effect comes from Tcells… and Tcells work properly when you have no vitamin D deficiency unlike 95% of ICU cases… 2 adds up to 2.. BTW they dont want to do a proper double blind human testings of vaccines calling infecting healthy people or not giving a sick person the treatment which wasn’t ever tested if it works calling it “nonethical” while they run human trials testing something unknown possibly deadly on noninfected people checking if they will get disease and survive? What a hypocrisy… “The researchers are also aiming to have 40% of the study subjects over age 65 or with underlying conditions, such as hypertension, lung disease, diabetes and morbid obesity, since they’re more likely to become ill with Covid-19, Novak said.” This will be funny to watch as they take a group the most prone… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 11, 2020 7:57 AM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

Remember, they have convinced so many people, especially the elderly, to voluntarily take repeated flu vaccines – that cause far more harm than good. Not that any of the other vaccines is much better.

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 4:17 PM
Reply to  mgeo

Yes. But it’s the same paradigm of western medicine to treat symptoms instead of fixing underlaying cause. In old age you can have a few cancers not even being aware. Old people survived WWII and are after selection ppl with stronger genes. Like the 100+ guy who survived hispanic flu and now went thou Covid as if he was youngster… My grandma had 6 siblings – all died. She eats plant oils, sugars and it doesnt do anything bad to her… LOL They still remember the old good ways – if they forgot then its their decision and i don’t care. i care more about young people on shitty diets, eating for pleasure not to stay alive and be healthy and especially about vaccination of vulnerable babies and forgeting to give them fishoil in the earliest phase of building brain – mostly being built of HDA in omega-3 fats. New… Read more »

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Oct 10, 2020 4:26 PM

The “pandemic” evaluation/debate only serves to distract the public away from the facts. Your “governments” have only fictional power, and are run by a criminally insane financial oligarchy. The Great Reset will not include speculations as to personal worth…

YeahBut
YeahBut
Oct 10, 2020 4:23 PM

Even the establishment team that reviewed the Imperial College paper says that closing schools may well have killed more people than leaving them open throughout the pandemic, by delaying herd immunity https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3588

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  YeahBut

“Herd Immunity” to what?

Kalen
Kalen
Oct 10, 2020 4:11 PM

There can be no COVID debate without historical analysis of role of medicine in pushing brutal and cruel cultural, socioeconomic and political agendas for benefit of ruling elites as in almost all cases policies were motivated by reasons far from noble pursuits of saving human lives. What is often ignored, however , is the fact that It is much bigger problem of politicization of medicine for purposes of state policies and in different scales of extreme it was and is common phenomenon regardless of nominal political system; bourgeois liberal democratic or autocratic or fascistic even of Stalinist type of state capitalism all were happy to varying degree use backup of pseudo scientific assertions and practices which efficacy was never objectively examined, for various political expediencies. In fact eugenics, anthropomorphic and genetic race theory was not exclusively German invention but in fact in pseudo scientific form was introduced under British empire as… Read more »

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Oct 10, 2020 5:17 PM
Reply to  Kalen

“It was those liberal, enlightened characters who paraded Native American Indians in London as humanoid beast”

That may or may not be true, but I have never seen that claim made before.

Jimi Hendrix a “Native American Indian” moved to London cos he couldn’t get a gig in The USA – and we all Loved him.

Everyone slags off us English, but I reckon we are the least racist country in the World.

Tony

Kalen
Kalen
Oct 10, 2020 5:39 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

It was cold, unemotional “scientific”, academic approach trying to figure out degree of humanity in blacks/Africans, Indians and Hindu or Chinese. And who was pushing such pseudo science: enlightened progressives, liberals reading Darwin. Legal Status of even WASP women was that of children as incapable of rational thought and broader social responsibility, similar to that proliferated by Muslim tradition today.

Remember, for liberals in US and British empire even all men (exclusive of women) were not created equal during times of feudal social castes and aristocratic rule, not to mention half beasts like natives of the “savage” primitive world.

Ethically justified Inequality was the core of feudal social system as it is today.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 10:44 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

“Everyone slags off us English”

But you can totally separate the Real People of the UK from the quasi-German bastards at the top. There’s a section of UK life… somewhere around the lower-middle, economically, I guess, that’s about half a century ahead of the US, and maybe twice that much ahead of Germany, as far as “multi-culturalism” and Integration go (especially in the big cities). The US has yet to come to terms with how fantastically segregated it is; no one seems to get that “Black Culture” in the USA is so distinct precisely because of segregation, and that it’s so “entertaining” that no one really wants to come to terms with what it costs in health (physical and mental) and real deaths.

The sad truth being that I can’t think of a country on Earth that isn’t either racist or color-coded.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 11, 2020 8:06 AM

On other sites, if anyone says a White policman recently killed a a Black man by kneeling on his neck, there is no shortage of indignant replies.

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 4:38 PM

You either accept segregation and the divide on natural lines creating a two homogenic healthy societal entities or you pretend to build a multicultural country with an british-indian type caste system falling into chaos the more multicultural/turboequality line crashes with the tribalic identity line. Every caste system works because it offers a kind of meritocracy. The moment order is broken or monarchy looses credibility you end up with a Cromwell type or french revolution time backfire. But origin of UK is a hierarchical, ariticratic, feudal, caste-like system while USA was multicultural but only in a european group what mixed into a homogenic culturally, religiously, in civilisation posteuropean culture and their caste-system is artificial or was limited to WASPS but now warped. They truly believe they can have one leading class & two fighting societies under them. And this segregation and identity, tribalism promoting politics system built by democrat politics for… Read more »

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 7:41 PM
Reply to  SzymonMazury

“You either accept segregation and the divide on natural lines creating a two homogenic healthy societal entities or you pretend to build a multicultural country with an british-indian type caste system falling into chaos the more multicultural/turboequality line crashes with the tribalic identity line.” You write as though the “cultural differences” are inevitable, non-dissoluble, congenital and necessary… and as though social engineering isn’t the hidden hand that dissolves some barriers while fortifying others. Italians and the Irish of 19th century (say, 1885) New York could barely have been more heterogeneous… by 1985 they were, throughout the US, part of a largely undifferentiated blob called “White” (though neither group was considered “white” by the Vanderbilts in 1885). Most kids of my generation (late Boomer, 61 this year) belonged to ONE CULTURE: TV CULTURE. That was glaringly obvious to any observer capable, as I was, of moving between cultures. The late-middle ’70s… Read more »

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 13, 2020 9:23 AM

Oh dear, I see I’ve offended a Racist! That “down-vote” is a poignant tear drop… (laugh)

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 12:54 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Based on your experience of living in one country?

SzymonMazury
SzymonMazury
Oct 11, 2020 4:42 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Look at Lewis Hamilton happyness on face when he makes the black first gesture and watches the white loosers kneeling in Formula 1… UK is so much antiracist it became the next racist level, just changing sides… not a great country to live in.
And who are the English actually? When i go to Ireland i know i see on first glance. In UK? XD Albion should change name into Allbias.

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
Oct 11, 2020 6:04 AM
Reply to  Kalen

I think there’s something within the Anglo-Germanic mindset which leans toward technocratic eugenics. GK Chesterton credited the Prussians with being the leading pioneers, but the English establishment were keen supporters and continued the policies after WWI. The French had their spasm of Enlightenment insanity during the Jacobin era, but they’re too rooted in Romanticism to carry it through for long. However, it means that the leading rebels are also likely to be Anglo-Germanic; or at least heavily exposed to the eugenics culture. I’m thinking specifically of Swift, Blake, Chesterton, etc, but I’m sure there’s a lot more.

G.K. Chesterton – Eugenics and Other Evils (1922):
https://off-guardian.org/2020/08/01/how-to-take-back-control-of-your-mind/#comment-214373

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 9:30 AM

I think there’s something within the Anglo-Germanic mindset which leans toward technocratic eugenics.”

I think this is partially true, though the curse only seems to manifest in the psychopathic subset of the Anglo-Germanics who use the psychopathy to rise to the “top” and establish ruling class dynasties; I know plenty of Anglo-Germanics without a molecule of that curse. Higher up in the business and social spectrum, however, the concentration of this toxin escalates rapidly. And, of course, the eugenic core of “civilization” as we know it celebrates Huxley, Russell, Shaw, HG Wells, Heidegger and his eugenics-adjacent “Dasein,” and creepy Gates, et al, as visionaries. “This is Sparta!” (shouted triumphantly) indeed.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 3:02 PM

To assist the debate, I submit the following: The time for experts to recommend without full scrutiny is over. There is no immediate emergency. If the public are expected to accept these recommendations then legitimate questions must be answered. The people subject to restrictions need to know on what basis these restrictions are being imposed, and offered the opportunity to discuss, and to accept or reject the recommendations offered, based on full and accurate information. Below is a list of questions pertinent to the present regime. It is not an exhaustive list. These questions are directed to the government and through it to all cabinet ministers, the Minister for Health, the HSE, and NPHET. It is the responsibility of the government to provide full and honest answers to these questions.   1. What is the definition of a “case?” What is the difference between a “case” and an “infection?” How… Read more »

scowie
scowie
Oct 10, 2020 4:48 PM
Reply to  austrian peter

I think you missed a rather crucial question: How was it established that SARS-CoV-2 is a cause of disease? And what was used as a control?

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 9:08 PM
Reply to  scowie

Good addition, scowie, thank you. I did say it wasn’t exclusive. 🙂

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 11, 2020 8:18 AM
Reply to  austrian peter

Another question: where did the major allocations of public wealth for “emergency relief” go?

Leading causes of death: heart disease (15.2 million/year), cancer (9.6m), starvation (9m), tobacco (8.2m), polluted air (6.7m), infant mortality (4.1m), medical blunder/crime (>2.6m), alcohol (3m), diabetes (1.6m), diarrhoea (1.4m), road accidents, TB, Aids, hepatitis B, resistant pathogens, murders, other narcotics, malaria, pregnancy complications, flu, poisoned water, military invasion/subversion.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 11, 2020 8:21 AM
Reply to  mgeo

Yet another good question, thank you mgeo. I have no idea – can’t even guess but be sure it is well hidden.

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Oct 10, 2020 2:51 PM

wrong question – we need much stronger pushback – the question is – since this phantom menace is now clearly revealed as just a flu variant, why are we talking about any ‘suppression measures’ at all, beyond what ‘measures’ we take every year during the flu season? Followup question – when are the people who purveyed this monstrous hoax on us going to face some real consequences for their terribly destructive lies??? And I suppose – why is OffG lending any credibility to the purveyors of this crap?????

Maxwell
Maxwell
Oct 10, 2020 1:04 PM

Interview with an NHS Nurse: “Where’s the challenge? Where’s the crisis? Where’s this Covid?” Q. At what date (approximately) did you start seeing Covid patients? Answer: Beginning of March. Q. What were their symptoms? Answer: Low oxygen levels, sometimes a higher temperature but often no symptoms that would distinguish differently from their other underlying conditions. I did not come across any patient reporting more unusual symptoms like loss of smell or taste. Neither did I see any patients that developed any associated clotting problems. Any deteriorating patient would develop worsening function in all body organs and systems but these cannot be called symptoms of Covid. It’s just more the fact that a patient was dying in the same way every other failing bodied patient has died. Q. Were their symptoms any different to other serious respiratory viruses that you had seen and treated in the past? Answer: The Covid patients presented no differently to any other… Read more »

Michael Canning
Michael Canning
Oct 10, 2020 12:34 PM

Total Covid deaths in Sweden in the 2 MONTHS to October 9, 2020 = 132

Total Covid deaths in the U.K in the last 2 DAYS = 164.

Sweden did not have a lockdown and discourages the use of masks.

I can’t see a lot to debate about , really.

richard
richard
Oct 10, 2020 1:59 PM

It would help if you said “claimed” covid deaths.
For more on this see Jon Rappoport article.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/10/jon-rappoport/covid-the-virus-that-isnt-there-the-root-fraud-exposed/

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:23 PM
Reply to  richard

Excellent richard, Thank you – I had no idea.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Oct 10, 2020 2:18 PM

Let’s see what another expert says.

“ Taiwan never even had a lockdown, while lockdown measures in Vietnam, New Zealand and China were early, short and sharp. Out of a population of 1.4bn people, China has only suffered 4,634 Covid-19 deaths; Vietnam, Taiwan and New Zealand together have had 67. How are these countries keeping Covid-19 under control, their health services running, and their economies and societies afloat?”
…..
“ At what stage will Britain look towards east Asia and the Pacific and say, “We want what they have”? At what point will we learn from their playbook: suppressing the virus, opening up the economy and regaining a semblance of normality in our daily lives?”

Prof Devi Sridhar

YeahBut
YeahBut
Oct 10, 2020 4:18 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Or we could have copied Peru, which had possibly the earliest, harshest, most mask-wearing lockdown of them all, and they’ve ended up with the highest per-capita COVID death rate of any major country. Perhaps we don’t want what they have!

Like most of the countries that had very low COVID death tolls, South Korea had higher than normal mortality before the pandemic https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1312463303625469952.html. In South Korea’s case the higher mortality ran for 3 years and a total of 56K excess deaths. Of course, the media didn’t care about those deaths, and it still doesn’t, because they weren’t COVID-related. Likewise for New Zealand and quite possibly for other Asian countries too.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Oct 10, 2020 5:02 PM
Reply to  YeahBut

“3 years”!!
???????????

RichT
RichT
Oct 10, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Prof Devi Sridhar holds a BSc in Biology from the University of Miami and a DPhil in politics from the University of Oxford. Certainly not medical qualifications.

Sridhar has worked closely with Chelsea Clinton and the Clinton Foundation.

Sridhar serves on the World Economic Forum Global Agenda Council on the Health Industry.

These are all just facts no conspiracy.

Leading UK professor warned of coronavirus type outbreak two years ago (Sridhar)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8139491/Leading-UK-professor-warned-coronavirus-type-outbreak-two-years-ago.html

Dr Fauci 2017 “there will be a surprise outbreak”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu2Ftcv6u3w

Very good at predicting these two.
Although it could just be a coincidence.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 12:59 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

China uses lies as facts, a bit like the NYT. First rule of science, shite in shite out. You need to evaluate your data sources and China’s numbers will never be believable.

You sorry armchair socialists should go live in China and actually find out something about which you speak as “experts” before spewing forth.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:33 PM

Tim puts “The Pandemic” in the title of his book, without indicating that he questions it. I’m sure that the TCC is pleased.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 12:08 PM

A) Rancourt is a good man who saw through “Global Warming/ Change” years ago and debunked it tirelessly and he appears to see through the “Covid” story and its real motivations but B) this sentence in the description of the event seems to take the existence of “Covid” as a given: “The global response to COVID-19 has been dominated by national and international responses involving unprecedented attempts to suppress and eliminate the virus,” …and, worse, seems to imply that C) the “global response” is sincere and not part of a greater (quite sinister) scheme. Which is classic Limited Hangout, no? “Debunk” a minor point while supporting the Goal; in which case the “debate” would be sort of ineffectual, whatever its outcome. Although there’s a good chance this was just a subliminal slip on the part of whoever wrote it. If people walk away from the “debate” (regarding a moot point)… Read more »

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:37 PM

Maybe I don’t know what “own-goal” means, but that last sentence had me scratching my head. I agree with the first part of your comment. This is what we are dealing with. The vast majority, pro lockdown and ant-lockdown, see things from a germ theory / Rockefeller health care ideology standpoint. I don’t, but it’s clear to me that I’m in a super tiny minority. So be it.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 12:59 PM
Reply to  Arby

Maybe I don’t know what “own-goal” means, but that last sentence had me scratching my head.”

In what we Americans call “soccer”: if you accidentally cause the ball to shoot into your own team’s net, that’s an “own-goal”. So: if people walk away from this debate believing that “Covid” is a dangerous (or actual) virus: not good. I do believe in viruses because I have experience catching colds, or the flu, from fuckheads sneezing on me in the U-Bahn. I just see no evidence that “Covid” isn’t a meme instead of a “deadly virus”… or a virus at all. I think it’s the same Flu, more or less, we get every year… plus LOTS of Soc Med/ YouTube spin. Because, empirically speaking: otherwise, half the city would be dead by now. The masks and “distancing” precautions are absurd.

richard
richard
Oct 10, 2020 2:07 PM

Yeah, a bit like novijoke which is so deadly a small amount can kill a city full of people but not the skripols!

theobalt
theobalt
Oct 10, 2020 2:34 PM

There was a comment here a few days ago relating to a study where a number of flu patients and equal number of healthy people were 1. put together in a room and chatting at 1 feet appart 2. mucus from mouth and nose of “infected” swabbed in nose, mouth and eyes of healthy participants and 3. “infected” mucus in a concoction injected in the vains of the healthy…. None of these procedures got healthy participants to contract the flu…. How sure are you?

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Oct 10, 2020 3:03 PM
Reply to  theobalt

there’d be a lot of ethical issues with that kind of thing, sounds like somebody’s making stuff up ….

Ort
Ort
Oct 10, 2020 7:49 PM
Reply to  Dave Patterson

I can’t find the reference to that alleged experimental study, but I dimly recall that it (allegedly) took place in the “Spanish Flu” era, c. 1920, before present-era ethical and procedural limits were developed.

Theobalt
Theobalt
Oct 12, 2020 5:43 AM
Reply to  Dave Patterson

In an ethical perspective, it seems to me that a lot of people are making stuff up… I suppose that’s why I didn’t question it… also, that’s exactly the kind of study I would conduct… Inject me with someone’s saliva anytime over an experimental vaccine…

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 13, 2020 2:20 AM
Reply to  Theobalt

Lol

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 1:04 AM
Reply to  theobalt

Mosquitos would have caused huge outbreaks were blood to blood transmission possible. Tons of mosquitos in Asia and Africa, but no sign of huge outbreaks of the faux virus.

theobalt
theobalt
Oct 11, 2020 3:24 AM
Reply to  aspnaz

If you can follow a mosquito with a magnifier, you will realize sir, that they are all wearing face masks (I’m practicing for my new career at Radio Canada)

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 2:52 PM

Ahh. Thanks. Incidentally, your explanation of why viruses exist is probably the best and hardest to refute but I do think we are on the way to doing so. Thomas Cowan responds to Patrick Bet-David’s (probably a small ‘c’ Conservative and certainly someone who has gained my respect after having Thomas on his show) question, regarding that virus concept-supportive idea, with the idea that exosomes can be transmitted (like pheromones) to others, so that when someone’s sick and their body is trying to detoxify, exosomes transmitted by the sick person can ‘report’ that danger to nearby people, causing them them to detoxify in exactly the same way. That’s not contagion. That’s something else. *Thomas has a style. He’s draggy. But he’s been thinking. He doesn’t have all the answers and comes across as though he hasn’t been thinking. But if you listen to ‘what’ he says, That’s a thinker. Does… Read more »

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 4:14 PM
Reply to  Arby

“Ahh. Thanks. Incidentally, your explanation of why viruses exist is probably the best and hardest to refute but I do think we are on the way to doing so.” If someone presents me with a compelling case, I can always be swayed enough to reconsider my position… I’m no ideologue. But I’m also hesitant to play “theory of the month” for the rest of my life, too, if you know what I mean. Everything I’ve been taught about viruses/ DNA seems more consistent than all the theories I’ve thus far encountered in the “con” category. You know the problem: there are people out there (many are Shills, of course) arguing passionately for Flat Earth, Paul is Dead and The Mandela Effect… and those are all non-starters for reasons that some people refuse (or “refuse”) to acknowledge. The CIA (or whatever we should call it) has done a pretty good job… Read more »

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 5:12 PM

I think a lot of Religious people may prefer to disbelieve in Virus Theory because the existence of viruses might seem to undermine the notion of a Perfect God And His Perfect Creations; viruses serve no purpose, they are made of basic building blocks of Life but aren’t really living (no brains, no sensory apparatus, no digestive tract or CNS) yet they can “reproduce” (not sexually: mechanically) and be lethal if you “catch” one. It’s an unhappy accident that they A) exist and B) can fuck you up… very much like a kind of hypothetical sand that can get in your Vauxhall’s petrol tank and reproduce once there. They are a random structural danger floating around in the Biome. What kind of God would make them? I get that reasoning… but it doesn’t disprove the existence of viruses. I’m an Agnostic but even I scoff at Richard Dawkins’ “explanation” for… Read more »

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 10, 2020 6:43 PM

It’s not at all about belief. I think you know this and are spinning your wheels.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 10:24 PM

“It’s not at all about belief. I think you know this and are spinning your wheels”

Uh… wha? One thing I’m getting a little weary of is the Presumed Omniscience from which so many commenters around here speak. I’m not “spinning my wheels,” I’m expressing in painstakingly clear English what I actually think on the matter… the polite version.

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 12:46 AM

What you politely think is incorrect when you say it’s about belief.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 9:41 AM

What is it that “isn’t about belief”?

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 4:30 PM

The meticulous, careful reading of scientific literature by Dr Andrew Kaufman, for example. If you can show me belief in his youtube presentations about the question of ‘virus’ you get the gold star.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 6:25 PM

Erm… the comment filter has been blocking my comment for quite some time. Is there anywhere else I can post this, George… ?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 6:27 PM

George: My superficial problems with your belief in (what I have seen of) Kaufman’s presentations are 1) he supports the notion that there is a “pandemic” of some sort of toxic agent by which people are falling ill and 2) he qualifies his theory of what the “Covid” virus/exosome is or does by saying “there’s no scientific evidence to back up my theory, it’s just my opinion: I want to be clear about that” (start at the 9:50 mark in the clip linked below) and 3) I haven’t been presented with detailed evidence as to why “standard virus theory” is wrong or doesn’t work. My deeper problem is that I suspect Kaufman is a “black-washing” asset inserted in the debate to make anti-Covid-Hoax believers look like idiots to the Mainstream. A function performed brilliantly by Stella Immanuel, “Trump’s New Covid-19 Doctor” who it was soon revealed “believes in demon, witches”… Read more »

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 8:16 PM

Steven: You’re trying for clarity but are hamstrung by paranoia, image-making, and bias against non-allopathic healing, all of which is defensiveness on your part. The value of Dr Kaufman lies in his raising of questions on things medical. If you feel you have them answered, that’s that, and ‘case closed’ – for you.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 8:18 PM

George!

Let’s agree to disagree and move on, then! No hard feelings,

SA

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 8:29 PM

You’re running away. Too bad, but I’m not invested in anyone’s personal responsibility. No heroes, no enemies on this end.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 9:30 PM

“You’re running away.” (Curses under breath, walks slowly back...) George, commenting on OffGuardian is increasingly like interacting on a JHVH’s WITNESS forum in an alternative universe in which the JHVH’S WITNESSES have splintered into hundreds of sub-cults and every member will not rest until you agree that HIS or HER version of some bizarrely useless detail of Holy Doctrine is the “only right one”. It’s fairly exasperating but offers a fascinating insight into why TFIC have absolutely nothing to fear from “us”. My resulting boredom/ disgust is probably the desired reaction so I’ll ignore the foolishness and keep visiting the site, hoping for occasional gems of Clarity and Logic. Today was not especially good for that and it irks me, a little, that I wasted time on generating a serious response to your gullible comment. Nobody with half a calorie of experience or wit would fall for that smirking Kaufman’s… Read more »

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 10:47 PM

..the need to control..

Enki
Enki
Oct 12, 2020 6:13 AM

so the fact that you are still alive is it proof that you are not a dissident?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 12, 2020 8:06 AM
Reply to  Enki

“so the fact that you are still alive is it proof that you are not a dissident?”

It’s more like the fact that only a few hundred people (at most) have ever heard of me. I’m obscure and so are you. We are not a threat; we’re not on the radar.

Enki
Enki
Oct 12, 2020 4:07 PM

how would you know if they do not see you as a threat? Who said that popularity is their deciding factors? You assuming a lot here. I never understand the argument that the only way to be credible is to be dead. Like witch drowning. If you do not drown you are a witch but then you are executed and if you do die then you were not a witch but too bad for you.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 13, 2020 8:04 AM
Reply to  Enki

“Like witch drowning. If you do not drown you are a witch but then you are executed and if you do die then you were not a witch but too bad for you.” Well, sadly, that’s the situation we face by opposing an enemy that, though inferior in literal numbers, outguns us by orders of magnitude and controls all the means (save one: face to face) by which we communicate and all the channels (except, again: face to face) by which we receive information. It’s common sense and simple observation: if a “dissident” has access to a platform that reaches millions of people, and is famous, and allowed to present a message for years… I’m afraid you have to question how that “message” is actually being instrumentalized by your oppressors. Sometimes the messages are Limited Hangouts (eg refute a minor aspect of mainstream theory or reveal a minor “secret” while… Read more »

Enki
Enki
Oct 14, 2020 8:29 AM

there is a deeper aspect to this but offguardian is not the place to talk about it. But their power only come from us giving up ours. And i do not agree that we should look at different theories as tarnishing.we should be open to all possibilities.

RichT
RichT
Oct 11, 2020 1:55 AM

I think viruses almost certainly exist, but the fact that Sars-Cov2 has not been fully isolated and sequenced is a problem. What exactly are they testing for with the PCR test?. I understand that scientists pieced together fragments of RNA in order to make this and then tested people in China with the symptoms, getting positive results. Has every coronavirus been sequenced?, if not could you get a positive result with a different coronavirus infection?.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 10:01 AM
Reply to  RichT

I think viruses almost certainly exist, but the fact that Sars-Cov2 has not been fully isolated and sequenced is a problem.”

I think TFIC know, as we know, that the Vagueness can only work in their favor when it comes to scaring The Shit out Duh Masses.

(I responded to your quip below but the comment is in moderation as possible spam! laugh)

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 7:55 PM

Well, I want you to be wary. I am.

RichT
RichT
Oct 10, 2020 11:58 PM

Don’t forget Bill Hicks never died and is in fact now the man we know as Alex Jones.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 9:58 AM
Reply to  RichT

I remember the charlatan who started that kind of meme: “Dallas Goldbug”. It began as a response to Sandy Hook; he was showing pictures indicating that certain players in the “Sandy Hook” drama were actors who had appeared in prominent roles in other (or parallel) dramas. The initial photographic matches were plausible (I think, for example, he argued that the mother of “Adam Lanza”… the Photoshopped shooter… was a character appearing in another Hoax). Soon, however, the photographic cross-matches were less and less plausible and then it branched out to celebrities. Of course, the Collective Unconscious already beat “Dallas Goldbug” to that kind of thing by claiming, decades ago, that Ken Osmond (aka Eddie Haskell) became Alice Cooper… and that Josh Saviano (Kevin Arnold’s best friend “Paul” on The Wonder Years) became Marilyn Manson. The poorly-matched “Bill Hicks/ Alex Jones” absurdity is also a bit like a contemporary stepchild of… Read more »

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Oct 10, 2020 4:48 PM

I didn’t know what a U-Bahn was, so Googled it and then found your Blog

Absolutely Brilliant Layout. No Bullshit. No Intro. Just a page of a lot of Interesting Images. Click on any of them for the content.

So simple so sweet.

Tony

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 5:10 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Thanks, Man!

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 5:11 PM

(You won’t get “The Bullshit” unless you click the Images: laugh)

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Oct 10, 2020 7:35 PM

I have already read and seen some of the content here.

Keep on Truckin’

scowie
scowie
Oct 11, 2020 12:57 AM

Sorry, but I’d have to say that your belief that you have got colds from people sneezing on you is just that. You look for someone to blame out of habit, and because you’ve been told all your life that diseases are spread that way. The truth is though, that no rigorous scientific investigations into disease spread have ever managed to show that disease symptoms can be passed from one person to another, especially via respiration or coughing and sneezing. The US Navy Gallop’s Island study on “Spanish Flu” is a good example: https://moscow.sci-hub.se/4021/da48b390a33f0ef54f59d6974a4104f6/rosenau1919.pdf I haven’t had a cold for more than 3 years now. I noticed that I always seemed to get them on the same day of the week (Sunday night/Monday), which was a big indication to me that they were diet-related (as well as temperature-related… they are called “colds” for a reason…). After doing some research I discovered that there are… Read more »

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 11, 2020 8:45 AM
Reply to  scowie

One additive in some cake mixes, frozen fish, antacids, etc. is aluminium powder. Isn’t the free market great?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 11, 2020 11:02 AM
Reply to  scowie

Nope, sorry, more than 55 years of experience (I’m 61)… in getting and preventing colds/ The Flu… including the fact that Wife and I cut down our yearly susceptibility to Flu drastically (to Nil) when we A) made sure to keep our gloves on when riding public transport, October-March, and B) washed our hands thoroughly as soon as we came home after every outing, indicates to me that the Virus Model is accurate. Weakening the immune system + exposure to certain viruses = illness. Fever combats viral infection (whereas many cold/ Flu “remedies” suppress fever) and when I feel like I’m on the verge, I get wrapped up under blankets and sweat it out and defeat the invaders over night. Also, raw ginger seems to work wonders. I’ve only been to a doctor once in 40 years (because I broke my elbow: they couldn’t set the hairline fracture so all… Read more »

scowie
scowie
Oct 13, 2020 5:39 AM

Influenza is a respiratory disease so you are not going to prevent that by washing your hands; you may well prevent that other seasonal disease though that is known as the winter vomiting bug, aka “norovirus”. Anyway, if washing hands helps you avoid a disease, that is no support for the virus model. It simply means you are washing a toxic substance off your hands (possibly the faecal matter of others) and avoiding poisoning yourself.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 13, 2020 7:43 AM
Reply to  scowie

“Influenza is a respiratory disease so you are not going to prevent that by washing your hands” Sorry. Totally disagree with your theory and the second half of your sentence does not follow from the first. You can prevent the transmission of the Flu and the common cold alike, to a very large extent, by washing your hands more frequently during Flu season and avoiding touching your face (eyes, mouth) on public transport or while shopping and so forth. Being under-slept and too cold for too long will also affect the state of your Immune System, so that viral invasion will be harder to fight of if you’re weakened in these ways. And, sure, hand-washing is a good way to cut down on contamination from E. coli… as well as the contamination from publicly-traded viruses. And, as I’ve stated before, elsewhere: if you’re going to toss out Virus Theory as… Read more »

scowie
scowie
Oct 14, 2020 5:19 AM

Since you like to bring the CIA into this, one famous quote that it is prudent to keep in mind from a former CIA director is this little gem from William J. Casey in 1981: “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” Now obviously that shouldn’t be taken too literally, but you should be more questioning about areas of knowledge where it might be useful for military intelligence to have everyone believing some BS. The causes of disease is obviously one of those areas, since it can be used as an excuse to enact some serious population control measures as we are seeing right now. This misinformation campaign isn’t the CIA’s alone and it predates that organisation. The US’s comrades in Nazi Germany imprisoned and murdered scientists who were critical of germ/virus theory in 1933, as virologist Steven Lanka mentions in this paper (along… Read more »

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 10, 2020 1:55 PM
Reply to  Arby

I’m with you. Dr. Tom Cowan has the best handle on what’s going on in my opinion. He’s been doing a lot of interviews on his new book “The Contagion Myth” which I’ve just ordered and can’t wait to get. His theory is that there is an illness, but it’s caused by an ongoing change to our Terrain. He also thinks there will be a second wave when that change is more widely implemented. Amped up EMF and immune systems compromised by toxic and poor nutrient food supply and emotional trauma. Amazon dropped his book but if you’re interested you can order it from his website drtomcowan.com
I’d love to see him in this debate.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 2:53 PM
Reply to  Cyd

O gosh! I just typed out my above response to Steven talking about that before seeing this. Cool!

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 2:54 PM
Reply to  Cyd

I can get the book here in Toronto without difficulty. For now. Maybe I should get it soon.

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 10, 2020 3:16 PM
Reply to  Arby

If you do get it let me know what you think!

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 3:35 PM
Reply to  Cyd

Are you here often? If so, then I will.

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 10, 2020 6:17 PM
Reply to  Arby

I read off-guardian many times daily. I don’t post much though.

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 10, 2020 6:45 PM
Reply to  Cyd

Post more and help cut through all this mediocrity.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 7:53 PM
Reply to  Cyd

Okay. In any case, you can keep track of me by bookmarking my blog, “A Yappy Trade Barrier.” Use the contact form to contact me anytime you wish. Who knows when I’ll read the book and whether I blog about it, but it’s pretty certain that if I read the book, then at some point it will make its way into my blog in some form.

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 11, 2020 1:11 AM
Reply to  Arby

Ok! We can have a very small book club.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 10, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  Cyd

He also thinks there will be a second wave when that change is more widely implemented.”

From my observations, the “first wave” was a matter of Mass Hypnosis. I live in a city of c. 4,000,000 people and even the official (puffed up) “death toll” is c. 200, and that’s largely from 81-year-olds killed by ventilators and/or cancer, diabetes et al. 200 deaths out of 4,000,000, after 8 months, in a world capital where most of the inhabitants didn’t wear masks or practise “social distancing” (even the cops and ambulance drivers were on the job unmasked): “Pandemic”… “things will never again be normal”… what kind of Idiots do they take us for? (Rhetorical question). Any “authority figure” addressing “Covid” as an actual “pandemic” is deeply suspect.

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 10, 2020 6:24 PM

I should have put second wave in quotes. He doesn’t say he believes there was a pandemic, just that there is a real problem and that when all the new tech is turned on (especially all the satellites) the problem will get much worse, and be used to claim “second wave”.

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 10, 2020 6:46 PM
Reply to  Cyd

Yes. Can anyone here actually HEAR what you’re saying?

Cyd
Cyd
Oct 10, 2020 7:00 PM

You and Arby did, thank you!

George McFetridge
George McFetridge
Oct 11, 2020 3:54 AM
Reply to  Cyd

Keep at it!

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 10, 2020 12:00 PM

The debate will evolve over a period of time, with written online dialogue between Dr Anderson and Dr Rancourt.

No it wont !
Dr Anderson and Dr Rancourt. will do as their told ..end of discussion …
NOTHING ! is going to happen …
All Smoke

LOL
what nonsense again ..

if it looks like s$1t and smells like s$1t
it probably is s$1t….
Just saying

now then …Back to your echo chambers
Nothing to see here

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Oct 10, 2020 12:16 PM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

Go away you tiresome troll with your very transparent attempts to confuse and obfuscate.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:38 PM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

I like Denis. He’s smart guy and doesn’t go along (to an extent) with the psychopaths who are cruelly destroying everything and terrorizing all of us in different ways. That counts for something.

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 10, 2020 12:43 PM
Reply to  Arby

I dont know Denis so you might well be right
but i do know whatever he wants to try and or do to combat the ‘Armageddon’ that’s here now …is a decade or 2 too late .
All he will do now destroy his life and his families

That unfortunately is where we are, even if many (still) do not see it ..

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 2:08 PM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

You make claims but you never explain why. What it is that we do not see? Why would someone destroy their life by speaking out?

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 11, 2020 12:42 PM
Reply to  Researcher

I am sorry researcher
I really am ..

but I cant and wont…

this is a reply section and I understand it might be hard to follow when there are massive ‘gaps’ in your knowledge and perception of this world
but these ‘gaps’ i cannot fill with some ‘replies’

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 3:05 PM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

Getting to know Denis is easy – if you have a computer. He’s done many interviews with alt media figures like Del Bigtree.

As for the idea that he’s committing suicide, I have a different take on it. Yes, This world will attack those who expose its evil and that attack may result in your physical destruction and worse. However, as Jesus Christ said to his disciples, ‘Do not fear those who can kill the body but afterward can do no more’ because there’s no Biblical hell. He went on to say ‘Fear he who can, after killing a body, has the authority to destroy its soul as well’. That’s at Matthew 10:28 (Matthew).

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 11, 2020 12:58 PM
Reply to  Arby

Hallo Arbi i wish i was as stead fast as you . I wish I had the strong believes you clearly have. I really do , but unfortunately i don’t . I have read enough stories of peoples life ruined because they don’t follow the ‘modus operandi ‘ Not only read, i actually experience it almost daily in my circle of friend and work colleagues … rest assured … They will destroy you ..maybe not now maybe not next week but your professional life is over Either way . plz do prepare .Untill this year I never had a bleak outlook on life even afte the charades of the last 20+ years . I aways belived we find a way but i am sorry to say …they fooled us all. They implemented all agendas that were simmering in the background for years , being prepared with various law changes silently… Read more »

Arby
Arby
Oct 11, 2020 6:44 PM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

Acknowledged.

Binra
Binra
Oct 10, 2020 11:59 AM

Oh! I wondered from the email link if we were going to have a debate on ‘virus as the cause of disease’. Which along with other issues is not actually debated but walled out from debate as ‘settled or weaponised dogma’ that is presented as power to protect against the threat. I am not saying there are no threats or dangers or that what we are calling or assigning to viral expression has no role in disease conditions but that the narrative has become despotic and denying of open exploration – as well as serving as the basis for virology Inc Ltd (Big Pharma et al) and a 4th Biotech Global Security Solution. When the underlying rigging of a system is left unquestioned, the only questions left are how to manage the system – which is always determined by those the system actually serves – not those its controllers claim… Read more »

annette
annette
Oct 10, 2020 3:49 PM
Reply to  Binra

Basically Binra, its not known you see. So far no virus has been identified. The first step is to even determine clinically whether there is a new disease. Its all very well that the early Chinese papers published in scientific journals claim that the CT scans of the lungs of a handful were different from anything they have seen. 1) who has seen these CT scans? Have they been circulated around to everyone? Other specialists of lung diseases have later said that the scans they have seen were of thrombosis (if I remember correctly). So then thats nothing new. 2) a local doctor somewhere may make a mistake, and on a few patients. They may be ignorant of all known lung diseases, they may even be dishonest, i.e. paid to say whatever they say (Im not saying these doctors were and am not accusing anyone, but we need definite proof)… Read more »

Binra
Binra
Oct 10, 2020 6:03 PM
Reply to  annette

I have researched this over some years. So I am not ‘asking’ for myself, so much as bringing the willingness to ask the question. Which is actually outside the scope of anyone engaged within the frame of belief or acceptance of ‘virus as the cause’ of threatening disease that must then be appropriately defended against or treated accordingly. So I am not only questioning the ‘discovery’ of a novel virus in a few people suffering extreme pollution in Wuhan, using processes of taking code samples from un-isolated samples of genetic material, mapping out fragments and reconstituting what the whole ‘virus’ must have been using computer modelling and previous ‘definitions’ of corona-viruses, that is then the template from which various RT-PCR samples are used to find even molecular matches in PCR tests – run X times using samples that may be variously gathered or kept from contamination as a marker for… Read more »

Enki
Enki
Oct 12, 2020 6:31 AM
Reply to  annette

and think about this. Why would a doctor even be able to identify a new strain of coronavirus in Wuhan during what is called the Flu season. In a population of 11 million, in a city notorious for it terrible air quality and massive amount of respiratory problem in its citizen, How did doctors even noticed this anomaly? Surely, if some people turned up suffering from respiratory problem that was acute, you would put it down to some harsher cases of flu than usual. Why would their first conclusion be that it must be a new virus? The whole thing was clearly planned.And the western world just accepting the chinese explanation without question. When has that ever happened?

annette
annette
Oct 12, 2020 2:38 PM
Reply to  Enki

Well it can be interpreted in different ways. 1) incompetence of the local doctors or some other motivation, possibly even paid to do so by whoever 2) none of this implies the Chinese government is responsible. As I wrote elsewhere, the term used by Xi to describe the pandemic has been translated in the Western press as “demonic”. However, a journalist tells me that the Chinese term used also means “foreign” (she checked this with Chinese counterparts, and since then I checked it too, after I was given a transliteration of the term). So this could well mean that Xi was afraid there was a bioattack (which also explains the Russian reaction): otherwise, he’d have probably put other cities under lockdown, but he didnt do so. The millions that left Wuhan then, were clearly not thought as capable of spreading anything. Possibly its known that bioweapons can only cause punctual… Read more »

Enki
Enki
Oct 12, 2020 4:13 PM
Reply to  annette

i do not believe the virus or disease exist at all. The whole thing a psyop. That is my point. If there was a real virus, man made or otherwise, no one would have noticed it this early in a city like Wuhan during so called flu season.

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 10, 2020 11:24 AM

Are the two of them pro corona? Otherwise i should ask you to invite one of the docs4opendebate. We do not want well know professors, we want too get out of this lies.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Oct 10, 2020 12:17 PM

Well there wouldn’t be much of a debate if they were both on the same side would there? 😉

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 10, 2020 1:13 PM

I truly hope for it.

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Oct 10, 2020 3:08 PM

actually the ‘tweedledee-dum (sometimes ‘dumer’ too)’ debate is kind of a mainstay of modern western politics, where they all pretend to be on different sides (you can tell, they wear different colored ties), but it’s all gaslighting, no matter who you ‘elect’ you get the same behind-the-scenes rulers ….

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:40 PM

What does “pro corona” mean? Does it mean ‘yes’ there is a virus? Does it mean that yes there’s a virus and the response of ‘governments’ to it is great?

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 10, 2020 1:11 PM
Reply to  Arby

Yes, because there is no virus. It’s a bacteria causing trombosis in lungs, hert and brain. They will never say they where wrong.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 2:56 PM

Honestly, I don’t see how that was an answer to my question. Maybe it’s a language thing.

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 10, 2020 7:03 PM
Reply to  Arby

The response of the government is overkill and there was a mild flu in 19-20, and now we have no longer a corona virus.

Someone
Someone
Oct 10, 2020 9:14 PM

I think you completely misunderstood Arby’s question.

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 11, 2020 9:40 AM
Reply to  Someone

Is it so simple: no, their is no virus. It’s gone the moment the lockdown started in March. Clear enough?

Someone
Someone
Oct 11, 2020 12:57 PM

Jeez dude. We know there’s no virus. This is just not what Arby asked at all. Goodbye.

hendRIK Pieters
hendRIK Pieters
Oct 11, 2020 1:48 PM
Reply to  Someone

Sorry, pro corona in my opinion is that those man believe in what governements all over the world are doing. Which i don’t.

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Oct 10, 2020 3:09 PM
Reply to  Arby

I would take that to mean ‘advocate of the corona-virus-phantom menace’ crap …

Welkson
Welkson
Oct 10, 2020 11:13 AM

It’s claimed the plague of the middle ages heralded growth greatly enriched middle class, who were suddenly empowered to dictate to their feudal overlords decent return on their labour. This ‘plague seems to be working in the other direction, they are acting like there are dead pilling up in the streets but there are none, and the overlords are taking more power and reducing our incomes even further.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:31 PM
Reply to  Welkson

I is all planned, from as far back as 1954:
https://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

Paul Vonharnish
Paul Vonharnish
Oct 10, 2020 4:17 PM
Reply to  austrian peter

austrian peter: A very interesting page. The document has received sporadic attention for many years. Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars – Operations Research Technical Manual – TW-SW7905.1
https://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml#forty

The original aims disclosed within the document are quite germane to the last 60+ years of societal manipulation and decay. No one wishes to pay attention. Too busy insulting one another on Fake-Book and Twitter…

Dave Patterson
Dave Patterson
Oct 10, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  Welkson

I believe it was the peasant class who found their ‘labour power’ more scarce and thus they were able to demand some better living conditions – the ‘middle class’ were a separate issue …

TFS
TFS
Oct 10, 2020 11:00 AM

Off Topic:

Is there something accessing OffG via the normal Browser?

I had to use the Tor browser to get through to the website.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Oct 10, 2020 12:19 PM
Reply to  TFS

The site has been under attack since yesterday morning, so access may be patchy.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:42 PM
Reply to  TFS

This is just a suggestion. But try Epic next time instead of US-government-funded Tor.

Zanado
Zanado
Oct 10, 2020 10:59 AM

There is nothing new about the ‘new normal’, it is the continued roll out of American Corporate control over British lives. And the continued political control via its front international bodies, which just extend America hegemony throughout the world.

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 10, 2020 1:04 PM
Reply to  Zanado

yes you are sooo right
it has nothing but absolutely nothing do with health ..The virus that kills literally no one

Its a catalyst nothing more…think back 9/11 that was the same ‘dry run’ for the US alone … …but now we are royally focked.
Its a global scam now.
still …head in sand ..and lets be reasonable .

the Lost and confused

James Robertson
James Robertson
Oct 10, 2020 10:49 AM

Tim Anderson has a very interesting history, in the 1970s he was involved in a Hindu offshoot/sect called the Ananda Marga,the Ananda Marga were blamed for a bombing outside a Hilton Hotel in Sydney. It is perfectly clear that they were not involved in the bombing, a security state stunt that went awry leading to the deaths of three people. Anderson was framed as the prime culprit by a severely corrupt element within the New South Wales police and served several years in prison before eventually, correctly being exonerated. Because he suffered that rather horrific injustice I foolishly deemed him to be a decent human being. I think I followed his twitter account many years ago and he may even have also followed mine, something of a moot point as I never actually used the account with any regularity. Earlier this year I logged onto my twitter account as I… Read more »

Binra
Binra
Oct 10, 2020 12:22 PM

I think if making such a claim you would be wise to give at least some direct basis for making it beyond mere vilification and smear. For unless you do so I associate what you are trying to put on your target as belonging to you.

In an era of deceit I will not accept messaging that uses smear as valid currency to replace fact.

RUN!NOW
RUN!NOW
Oct 10, 2020 1:37 PM
Reply to  Binra

Hear Hear !!!!

but facts ? cmon its 2020 . FACTS do not matter anymore .its about feeling …..

they gunned for our collective soul and they got it .
Locked and shackled

now ? 2020 we are too late by decades …go back to sleep now…. nothign to see here This game is up ! No restrain anymore and even if many NOW finally see 2+2 =4 and not 5 it doesn’t matter anymore
..you can put it all together now as much as you like and shout about it …NO-ONE cares
the cage is complete and there no no escape anymore
hence you may add up all u like 🙂

aspnaz
aspnaz
Oct 11, 2020 1:19 AM
Reply to  RUN!NOW

So your stance is that we should all give up and walk to our deaths quietly? You sad individual.

Ernest Judd
Ernest Judd
Oct 13, 2020 1:53 AM
Reply to  aspnaz

Personal disobedience is the only action that will work. In other words, whatever the government wants you to do, DO NOT DO IT.
Tell those that you love, and maybe more people will organically, quietly on their own undertake the exercise
Do not be afraid of ostracism, legal turmoil, financial violence or your mortality, because it is not about you.

James Robertson
James Robertson
Oct 11, 2020 1:48 PM
Reply to  Binra

What claims are you referring to? I simply stated that Anderson was wrongly convicted and correctly exonerated for a terrorist attack that was the result of an accident caused by the incompetence of the Australian security services.
He had absolutely nothing to do with any bombing and I made that perfect;y clear.

Binra
Binra
Oct 11, 2020 7:49 PM

No you did not simply state that, and your claims regarding his character – which are your own personal judgements – are the payload or your hit piece.
Regardless your claim to plausible deniability.
You could get a job in the new world of cyber security (sic).

If you smear a person’s character, in public, without showing a factual basis for why you hold such a personal opinion, then you are behaving slanderously.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:44 PM

I may have read some disturbing things about the man too, but I am not sure. I didn’t keep perfect track.

James Robertson
James Robertson
Oct 11, 2020 1:51 PM
Reply to  Arby

Can you read? There are no disturbing facts about Anderson, beyond the fact that he is a pro-tyranny galoot on the matter of the C19 pandemic.

Arby
Arby
Oct 11, 2020 6:42 PM

Can I read?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 1:28 PM

Working for the cryptocracy.

These organizations do not appear out of nowhere. They are created to give the public a belief in terrorism’s existence when the only terrorism is always state sponsored.

The terrorists are the governments. Governments control crime and terrorism. Just like they are controlling the terrorism of the fake pandemic.

So he was working for the government one way or another. Knowingly or unknowingly.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:38 PM
Reply to  Researcher

But don’t you mean The Deep State? I don’t think politicians generally have the balls to go to these lengths – it requires an evil cabal – Oh maybe you are right after all.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 2:59 PM
Reply to  austrian peter

The deep state is a misnomer. You have two forces at work. A security state apparatus that is linked to private industry such as tech, medicine, military, energy. They are not working against any elements within government. They are a large body of humans working through the institutions that govern. Once in that milieu, there’s a wall. A wall that you will be aware you cannot cross. Some will see that wall as red tape or bureaucratic obfuscation, and others will know and understand that wall is there to hide the criminal activity of governments. All we see from the outside is a veneer. But that is a manufactured and managed media image, not actually a representation of reality. Then you have what those in the security state apparatus refer to as the “shadow government“. What I always refer to as the cryptocracy. These people are the ones who control… Read more »

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 3:29 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Thank you – that clarifies things well.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 5:01 PM
Reply to  austrian peter

Here’s an example of cryptic messaging using words that are almost homophones:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SSybmS_9U

Take note also, of the Freemason pillars on stage behind Trump.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 9:06 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Ah yes, Boaz and Jochin I have some knowledge of this and the homophones convey a message – I see.

James Robertson
James Robertson
Oct 11, 2020 1:53 PM
Reply to  Researcher

The Ananda Marga group had zero involvement in the Sydney Hilton bombing nor any other terror attack so if he was supposedly working for the government what was he/they doing?

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 12, 2020 2:57 AM

All those types of new age groups that came out of the 60’s and 70’s (and the Marxists) are created by the cryptocracy, usually under indirect control of the CIA through various assets or infiltrators. Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar (21 May 1921 – 21 October 1990) founder of a Ananda Marga. Notice anything about those dates? Numbers? He was born and died on the 21st. He was exactly 69 years old. If he was practicing yoga why didn’t he live to 100? At least to 90. If you get involved in the cryptocracy you will probably die by their hand. And now this former member of a cryptocracy created group (and the cryptocracy control the governments of all nations, but especially the 5eyes) is arguing on the side of the cryptocracy for some kind of state sponsored medically imposed response to a faux pandemic and assisting to spread the lie of… Read more »

Someone
Someone
Oct 10, 2020 2:58 PM

Is this the guy? https://mobile.twitter.com/timand2037

Can you give an example of what you mean?

James Robertson
James Robertson
Oct 11, 2020 1:45 PM
Reply to  Someone

Yes that is Tim Anderson, but I do not understand what you are trying to ask there.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Oct 10, 2020 10:38 AM

Any chance of an article on the US election before it’s over ?

Can I post On-Groan bollocks here seeing as O-G has given up on the ‘not even weekly, never mind regular’ forum?

I think I will!

And my censored post about being censored too?
I shall wait for some reply.

What time is the ‘big show fight’ ?

Grafter
Grafter
Oct 10, 2020 10:36 AM

Every time I see the words “deadly virus” I instinctively know that a lying bastard is attempting to control the narrative.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Oct 10, 2020 10:20 AM

Test test test
OhOh look
a new dash board on my old phone but not on this one.

in the morninglight
what does this buttin do?
1. and number
2. bells
* whistes
you will not be exterminated
you can trusts us

Wot wot wot

i better get more tea and get crunching some toasty echo chamber trolls- lets see what hymn sheets have gone out

ARE YOU READY 🤡🤡🤡?

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 10, 2020 10:13 AM

Part one Boris Johnson and co-conspirators, what the hell have you done! In the coming months, it will become more obvious that you and your global death cult, the so-called leaders from W.E.F., W.H.O., U.N., etc., with all your corporate collaborators, your Nazi scientists and doctors, are all directly involved and responsible for the coming holocaust of over two hundred million deaths and murders, through starvation and all other criminal actions of various governments throughout the world. By implementing your elitist and wholly unnecessary collective fascist policies on humanity with the greatest health fraud every perpetrated in history. These death cults have no eyes. No intelligence! To establish the global control grid for the organization of human enslavement, which has nothing to do with enhancing humanity’s freedom and intelligence at all. They didn’t think we would figure out their criminal intentions? Their death cult is just a business. Newton’s Third… Read more »

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 10, 2020 10:07 AM

Part two Day by day, the West is going mad, totally insane. And through insanity, much will happen. The western mind has become more anguished because of scientific achievement. The ego is strengthened more. It is strengthened because western science has taken the attitude of trying to conquer nature. It is a very egoistic attitude, to conquer nature. For the last three centuries we have been constantly conditioned through science. Everywhere, but especially in the West, the mind is science-oriented. It thinks in terms of conquering nature, in terms of competing with others. And the more science has progressed, the more the western mind has stalled. In the West death is still a taboo. One taboo has been broken, the taboo about sex, but the second taboo, which is deeper than the first still exists. Now death has become the taboo. They don’t talk about death. This taboo of death… Read more »

Gwyn
Gwyn
Oct 10, 2020 1:07 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Excellent. I really enjoyed that. Where’s Part One, please?

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 10, 2020 11:19 PM
Reply to  Gwyn

Part One Boris Johnson and co-conspirators, what the hell have you done! In the coming months, it will become more obvious that you and your global death cult, the so-called leaders from W.E.F., W.H.O., U.N., etc., with all your corporate collaborators, your Nazi scientists and doctors, are all directly involved and responsible for the coming holocaust of over two hundred million deaths and murders, through starvation and all other criminal actions of various governments throughout the world. By implementing your elitist and wholly unnecessary collective fascist policies on humanity with the greatest health fraud every perpetrated in history. These death cults have no eyes. No intelligence! To establish the global control grid for the organization of human enslavement, which has nothing to do with enhancing humanity’s freedom and intelligence at all. They didn’t think we would figure out their criminal intentions? Their death cult is just a business. Newton’s Third… Read more »

Gwyn
Gwyn
Oct 10, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Your writing is very powerful. And I really appreciate the response to my request.

Diolch yn fawr, as we say in little old Wales. :o)

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 19, 2020 12:36 PM
Reply to  Gwyn

Haw dywedyd “mynydd” na myned drosto
I had spent memorable summers in Pwllheli,Wales over the years 🙂

Gwyn
Gwyn
Oct 20, 2020 10:43 AM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Glad to know that you’re familiar with the delights of Pen Llŷn.

(And thanks for jogging my hazy memory of that saying).

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 10, 2020 11:21 PM
Reply to  Gwyn

Blocked!

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 10, 2020 11:24 PM
Reply to  Gwyn

Thank you 🙂

You can read the full comment here, near the top of the comments…

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/10/08/successful-people-are-misery-super-spreaders/

wardropper
wardropper
Oct 10, 2020 1:41 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

That was quite a mouthful. Give me an hour or two to digest it all, and I’ll thank you for it.
Skimming through, it looked truthful and relevant.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 2:20 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Thanks Cryptocracy disciple.

I knew we’d see a representative sooner or later.

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 17, 2020 7:20 AM
Reply to  Researcher

You go on looking on the other as darkness. This may give you an illusory feeling that you are light, but this cannot give you light. Why are you afraid? If you really penetrate within yourself, your self image that you have created in the world will prove to be false. Your whole past will come to mean nothing, because it has been like a dream. You have invested so much in it, you have lived for it, and now to know that it has been a false phenomenon you feel hurt. Your whole life has been wasted. To continue to dream one has to believe that this is not a dream, this is reality. The moment you become aware that this is a dream, the dream is already disappearing. Self-knowing happens through no-mind, not to a mind filled with knowledge, not to a mind filled with judgments of good… Read more »

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 17, 2020 1:43 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Your lies are of no interest. Your projections and delusions are your own. Not mine. You have no truth because you have no knowledge.

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 18, 2020 12:23 AM
Reply to  Researcher

A blind person can philosophize about light, there is no harm in it. Intellectually they can know everything about light. But to know light, and to know about light are two totally different things. Intellect is always about information. And the mind is capable of collecting all the information that is contained in all the libraries of the world. But truth can never come from information, so-called knowledge. Trawling Google for information, you may feel knowledgeable? But it is not intelligence. Intellectuals are not the real intelligent people. You don’t even cut it as an intellectual! Just a 77th brigade troll, still living at home with your mom? What is intelligence? Is it a state far beyond the mind and its limits. Intelligence is not of the mind, intelligence is one of the qualities of your being. But mind is being used as a vehicle for it, hence the confusion.… Read more »

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 18, 2020 5:42 AM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

I saw through your act immediately. There’s nothing in you except the hate you project. Your bile jumps off the page.

Peace Or Mind?
Peace Or Mind?
Oct 18, 2020 11:26 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Peace Or Mind? The Annual Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded by the Norwegian Nobel Committee since 1901, yet true lasting global peace remains a dream, a hope, a utopia. The world is in crisis, which drags us ever closer to the nuclear precipice. There remains no choice but to address the fundamental problems of our global dystopia. To discover the very roots of it’s unconscious nature. Yet until the people begin to realize that the solutions we seek can only be found beyond the intellectual mind. Global peace will remain a utopia! How many so called world leaders, artists, scientists, academics, politicians, clergy, celebrities, know themselves? Or are even aware that they do not know themselves? Knowing oneself is intelligence. Intelligence comes from seeing. Not from the mind, thoughts must cease for your intelligence to be. Intelligence is consciousness itself. Consciousness, being free of thought, is the door to… Read more »

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 18, 2020 12:05 PM
Reply to  Researcher

Thank you for allowing me to share so much, Dave, Awesome! I’ll drop around later and we’ll go out for a face mask free drink:) People are waiting for some saviour to come and deliver them from all this misery. The saviour is not going to come. You have to be the saviour yourself. If we really want to solve all our global problems, we will have to go to their roots, to their very roots. Politicians have been befooling you. Politicians are diverting the attention and energy of the people in the wrong directions. They have managed the whole strategy in such a way that you never become aware what is happening. Politicians give you all kinds of fake protections, insurances. They go on telling you, “Trust us and we will protect you. We are your guardians, your guides, your friends, your saviours.” Yet politicians and MSM news live… Read more »

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 18, 2020 5:48 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

You are projecting. AGAIN.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/14/watch-the-parallels-between-9-11-and-covid19/#comment-258701

Read also my comments underneath that comment.

This is Agenda21. Depopulation.

Stop spreading “see the light – be the light” delusions and start spreading the truth.

Reverse Fear
Reverse Fear
Oct 18, 2020 9:17 PM
Reply to  Researcher

See now, you are finally talking, instead of just hurling abuse. We are not on opposite sides. If your eyes were open you would immediately see that? if you can’t see that, you can never change anything. Then nothing changes! If you want to get enough people to understand the scope of the plan, as you put it. You have to help them fully raise their own awareness first, to fully awaken their own intelligence. Then they will not be lost in their own minds, just sharing information. That is just getting people to believe in another cause. It can have a limited effect, but if you really want to remove all of these sociopathic ruling elites. Then you have to fight them with something they don’t have… intelligence. They only know mind, they can only unconsciously control from mind. They don’t know what intelligence is, or how to access… Read more »

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:46 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear
The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Oct 10, 2020 11:14 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

Thank you my friend.

Truth is simple for it has nothing to hide; but we are taught to scorn the simple and admire the complicated in this efficiency-driven world.

Thank you again, your thoughts and mine are twin brothers.

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Oct 11, 2020 3:03 AM

“… For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?”

Not the religious type I’m not, but a few drinks can do wonders.

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Oct 11, 2020 3:45 AM

Had one more (hic) and this popped up in my mind:

“When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money.”

I humbly urge all politicians, people in position of power, decision makers and the like, who currently are ruining our lives (hic), to drink more often, even indulge in the habit of drunkenness; they may inadvertently connect with their humanity and see the hell they plunged us into. (hic)

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Oct 11, 2020 12:38 PM
Reply to  Reverse Fear

I tried to reply yesterday, but my it wouldn’t post. Really appreciate both your comments here, powerful and profound. You’re right, in the West, death has become a taboo subject, and the MSM have played on this in their rampant fear mongering for most of this year. People have fully embraced the ‘new normal’ and draconian measures because of an almost morbid fear of their own mortality. I also agree with you, that the politicians are mere puppets of the 0.01% and take their orders from their Masters. You probably know about the odious Daniel Andrews here in Melbourne, but there are many examples: Trudeau, Ardern, Johnston, Sturgeon, Macron, etc. A lot of corruption in the world now. I’m not religious in the Christian sense, but I do have faith, because that, for me, is like having a solid foundation. I also try to live day to day, and not… Read more »

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 10, 2020 9:39 AM

Not sure what good can come out of this debate, the debaters’ background notwithstanding. It is now clear that the medical aspects of the “pandemic” are much less important than everything else. We’re experiencing a revolution that is transforming the old normal to whatever the PTBs want to be the new normal. Tragically, we – the human race – don’t have an alternative to the old normal. We generally knew that it sucks, that was imploding, that it was on its last legs, that the shit was about to hit the fan, but we’ve failed to formulate a meaningful alternative. A new ideology, concept for the future. A concept that will take into account artificial intelligence, robotization, genetic engineering, new technologies. We’re stuck in old-normal thinking. Not so the proponents of COVID. They have a plan, obviously of using AI to enslave humanity, as opposed to freeing it, which should… Read more »

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Oct 10, 2020 10:46 AM
Reply to  Jacques

They clearly have a plan – but this does not mean the plan is destined to succeed or that the rest of us are doomed to failure.

Arby
Arby
Oct 10, 2020 12:49 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

As a person of faith, I full expect a new world to dawn. (And I believe that death will be abolished, but not by people like Elon Musk. Disease will end, but not because we will employ killers like Bill Gates. Crime won’t exist, but not because fascist storm troopers will be unleashed on populations.) But it will be an exclusive club. Predators will not be welcome, for one thing. As the Christian Bible says, ‘ears have not heard and eyes have not seen’. We don’t know the details. Why would we? We will build that new world. But ‘we’ will not be monsters. Whatever it looks like, it will be great.

annette
annette
Oct 10, 2020 11:17 AM
Reply to  Jacques

Yes Jacques, we have to discuss the future. In fact advised by others, I may well start a website taking let us say the debate to a different level. I wont allow comments there, as that all too often descends into futility, but readers will be able to contact me. Evidently if I do this, Ill do it under my real identity.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:51 PM
Reply to  annette

I think you should do it. I will read it.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/author/austrian-peter/

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 10, 2020 5:01 PM
Reply to  annette

That would be great. A meaningful debate is what’s missing the most in this world. An informed debate that takes into account the past, but does not dwell on it, does not cry over spilled milk, and, instead, explores and proposes avenues where the world should be headed in the future. I find that humanity is presently in a situation analogous to the time before “socialists” explained to ordinary people how to exercise their collective power, what they can achieve that way. People are now similarly in the dark as to what’s going on in society, they don’t understand it, they don’t know a way out. Unfortunately, there are no present-day “socialists” who would have a way out of this figures out, who would have a viable ideology, a new, better view of the world to propose, but that’s what needs to be worked on. A positive approach must be… Read more »

annette
annette
Oct 10, 2020 7:10 PM
Reply to  Jacques

Well in my books, I actually propose solutions because I dont think that its good to just analyse and tell people its all dreadful. You have to provide hints for ways out. I only write a book about an issue when I feel there is a way out…
So I think Ill start by taking parts of my books…
Im more worried about the technical side: I am a total ignoramus where it comes to the technical part of the internet. In particular Ill need help from someone who knows about security issues.

And indeed I have the same approach as you: to know that past to understand the present and to get inspirations for solutions for the future.

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 10, 2020 8:32 PM
Reply to  annette

Books … ha ha …I’ve ordered one of your books earlier today. Looking forward to reading it.

As to technical issues, you’d best consult somebody. My understanding of this stuff is pretty superficial as well.

Binra
Binra
Oct 10, 2020 12:13 PM
Reply to  Jacques

I agree that the medical is a trojan pretext Discussing within the narrative frame of a virus dogma is to perpetuate it. But your posit of existence or not is a false frame for whether any such virus is the cause of specific disease. If it is NOT, then the belief in the terrorist microbe is a false flag working a hidden agenda to cover for trouble much closer to home. There is also room for discussion on exactly how the deceit is worked as the hijacking of selves or minds in terms of captured identity that then replicates fear as viral reaction. The deference to scientific experts is a blank cheque to being coopted into marketised and weaponised technologism – masking as science. ‘Science’ has been increasing captured and diverted into computer models that can be used instead of inconvenient or anomalous empirical data. Restoration of empirical science as… Read more »

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 10, 2020 2:39 PM
Reply to  Binra

Virus is a pretext. The unknowable, unmeasurable, unquantifiable, unverifiable, unseeable enemy.

An enemy that lurks in someone’s breath. Poised to attack. The life force we all share, breath, is now the enemy. The cryptocracy are blatant in their symbolism.

Another divide and conquer tactic. It’s obvious.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Binra

It is called Technocracy and Trans-humanism and is the globalists agenda having captured the Deep State. It has been planned since before WW2:
https://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 10, 2020 5:07 PM
Reply to  Binra

Sure, it’s important to keep exposing the COVID bullshit. To insist on true science, to reject scientism, to reject fallacious narratives, etc.

But let’s face it, the wheels are in motion, and not only there is most likely no going back to the old normal – we’ll be lucky if the efforts to expose the crap are even partially successful – but the old normal is really nothing to write home about. One way or another, it wouldn’t have lasted much longer without COVID.

We need a new view of the world, new -ism (even though it might behoove us to stay away from -isms … 😀 …).

We have to look beyond the horizon.

Binra
Binra
Oct 10, 2020 7:58 PM
Reply to  Jacques

The great thing about recognising the false is releasing the status of fact and opening a true question, that opens true answer.
Asking a question from within the old mind is to persist in the old mind.

There be dragons – and yet – after looking at Andrew Hall’s take (and others) on plasma geology – that old mapping may be an old ‘god’ revealing a new paradigm.

austrian peter
austrian peter
Oct 10, 2020 2:49 PM
Reply to  Jacques

You are quite correct Jacques. And this is the plan from 1954:
https://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

Joerg
Joerg
Oct 10, 2020 9:27 AM

Remember when a few days ago in the article-video “WATCH: Int’l Lawyers Bringing Class Action Over “Covid Scandal”” some “Dr. Drosten” was mentioned. This Dr. Drosten is in Germany someone like in the US is Dr. Fauci or here in Great Britain was Dr. Ferguson.
And in the OffG article-video we were informed that it was Dr. Drosten, who developed the “PCR”-test and spread its use all over the world. So: The PCR test is always the Dr. Drosten test!
 
Well, now it turned out that it is very doubtful if “Dr.” Drosten ever produced a real scientific dissertation/thesis to get rightfully his “promotion” and the “Dr.” -title. 
German link: https://www.watergate.tv/dissertation-drostens-war-17-jahre-nicht-auffindbar-ist-er-ueberhaupt-dr-med/
 
Machine-translated to English: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.watergate.tv%2Fdissertation-drostens-war-17-jahre-nicht-auffindbar-ist-er-ueberhaupt-dr-med%2F

annette
annette
Oct 10, 2020 11:19 AM
Reply to  Joerg

Thank you Joerg for these links. I will indeed consult them. Because what you say has actually very serious implications.