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Great VIRAL Debate: Round 1: Dr Anderson’s First Response Responding to Dr Rancourt’s Opening Statement & First Response

We kick off Round One of The Great VIRAL Debate, following on from Opening Statements. Our participants, Drs Anderson and Rancourt, will now take turns responding to one another. Dr Piers Robinson is our chair. Off-Guardian is your host. The proposition under debate is:

SARS-COV-2 merits suppression measures in order to combat the virus rather than the herd/community immunity approach

Dr Anderson, arguing for the proposition. He’s responding to Dr Rancourt’s opening statement and first response:

In response to the opening statement and first response by Denis, let me first list the matters on which I agree.

I agree that the danger and contagion of COVID19 can and should be determined by “unbiased scientific enquiry”; that there are “large numbers of [unexplained] excess all cause deaths” in many jurisdictions; that the infection fatality ratio (IFR) is “a scientific question, which cannot be answered merely by using socio-political inferences”; and that IFRs (the fatality rate of all infected, not just those presenting as ill) must be distinguished from the initially inflated case fatality ratios (CFRs).

Given the nature of western opinion on many big debates – strong, often tending to abusive – few are likely to change their minds based on our arguments. Yet our agreement on the need for independent scientific arbitration is important because readers will have reference to our sources and perspectives.

Nevertheless I say Denis is in error in several matters of method and substance.

On method, his first error is to introduce personal anecdotes in an attempt to prove a general proposition: “I do not know anyone who knows anyone who has died of this thing”, he says, suggesting it cannot be very dangerous. This proves nothing, any more than the fact that I do personally know of such deaths and illnesses. Trying to prove the general from the particular is a basic logical fallacy.

His second error is to mix insinuations of a global conspiracy (without evidence) with an argument over ‘virulence’ which founds itself on scientific evidence. The vague back-text undermines his scientific logic and provides an alternative ‘escape route’ in case his recourse to science fails (i.e. ‘where there are excess deaths there is another ‘obvious’ cause’).

The third problem is his cherry picking of scientific estimates. All the scientific reports (including Ioannidis, on whom Denis relies) admit a large degree of uncertainty over many aspects of COVID-19. That means we should have regard to the range of scientific estimates on COVID IFRs. I did that in my opening, citing a range of 0.2% to 1.3%, with a consensus of between 0.5% and 1%. The seasonal flu IFR is commonly said to be about 0.1%.

In substance, Denis relies for his ‘no worse than a flu’ argument on Ioannidis, corroborated by some correspondence he had with an academic friend, Joseph Audie. He also claims the Washington based CDC revised its estimates in September to fit in with Ioannidis. Yet Denis does not report these cherry picked sources accurately.

John Ioannidis is a scientist who (with colleagues including Jay Bhattacharya) has engaged in political lobbying of the Trump administration since mid-March, to prevent a ‘lockdown’, based on his ‘relatively harmless’ view vs likely economic damage. Several of his arguments are now touted by Trump (see Stephanie Lee).

But his COVID19 predictions are poor. On 17 March Ioannidis predicted “about 10,000 deaths” in the USA from COVID-19. By that time the US government had reported just 121 deaths, one month later it was 38,000 deaths, six months later more than 200,000. In mid-July Ioannidis revised upwards his IFR estimate to a median 0.27% – but as much as “0.90% in locations exceeding 500 COVID-19 deaths per million”. That is, a median rate almost 3 times the seasonal flu. Audie’s letter mentions this but Denis does not.

Denis also wrongly claims that the US CDC in September revised its IFR estimates to figures “comparable to and smaller than” that of the 2009 Swine Flu. Not so. The 10 September CDC report cited by Denis says it relies on the European IFR calculations by Hauser et al, which range from 0.5% to 1.4%. The Audie letter bemoans the fact that the CDC in July presented “a second and higher estimate of 0.65%”, a figure confirmed in late September by congressional testimony from CDC Director Robert Redfield:

The preliminary results on the first round show that a majority of our nation—more than 90 percent of the population—remains susceptible … [and] that the overall COVID-19 infection fatality rate (IFR)—the share of Americans infected by the virus who will die as a result—is about 0.65 percent. (in Sullum, 29 September)

So is the “massive and coordinated information and recommendation (propaganda?) campaign” mentioned by Denis (i) that of Ioannidis and Trump, who play down the epidemic, or (ii) that of the CDC, which cites international studies to maintain that COVID19 is 6.5 times more deadly than the seasonal flu? The US state is clearly divided on the matter.

***

On the new matters raised by Denis in his 17 October response, first there was no need for me to “tar”, him as a ‘pandemic denier’. He does that himself in his Facebook group ‘Denis Rancourt denying everything’, where he says “I deny climate, vaccine, face masks, COVID-19, medicine, pedagogy, … everything!”

Denis spends some time on why he thinks so many people have died in aged care homes in the COVID era. I welcome his suggestions for the reform of aged care. But we know the Swedish voluntarist and ‘herd immunity’ approach did not work. Swedish health official Anders Tegnall admitted in August that older people in Sweden were worst hit than those in neighbouring countries (Holroyd 2020).

My emphasis on public health systems is not simply about a “funding model”, but about values and systems. I have explained this in several articles and it has relevance for the important debate about the costs of ‘lockdowns’, which are mainly in delayed or denied health care, plus child nutrition and schooling.

So health systems remain at the root of the important debate about ‘costs of the virus vs costs of the lockdown’. A British tabloid story in July, citing an unpublished government report, headlined ‘200,000 deaths’ in Britain from the ‘lockdown’. Most of these were said to be in delayed health care. Those who read through to paragraph 20 might have noticed the same report was said to have predicted 500,000 COVID19 deaths “if the virus had been allowed to run through the population unchecked” (Knapton 2020). Public health matters.

Find out more about our two eminent debaters here
Track the debate’s progress in our Coronavirus Debate Section.

References:

Anderson, Tim (2020) ‘Public Health, COVID-19 and Recovery’, AHT, 10 April, online.

Anderson, Tim (2020) ‘Myths of the Pandemic Deniers’, AHT, 6 August, online.

Anderson, Tim (2020) ‘How the Pandemic Defrocked Hegemonic Neoliberalism’, AHT, 22 may, online.

Anderson, Tim (2020) ‘COVID-19: the Swedish Model’, AHT, 4 October, online.

CDC (2020: 11 Sept) ‘Early Insights from Statistical and Mathematical Modeling of Key Epidemiologic Parameters of COVID-19’, Volume 26, Number 11—November 2020, online.

CDC (2020: 10 Sept) ‘COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios’, 10 September, online.

Hauser, A., Counotte, M.J., Margossian, C.C., Konstantinoudis, G., Low, N., Althaus, C.L. and Riou, J. (2020) ‘Estimation of SARS-CoV-2 mortality during the early stages of an epidemic: a modeling study in Hubei, China, and six regions in Europe’. PLoS medicine, 17(7), p.e1003189. 28 July, online.

Holroyd, Matthew (2020) ‘Coronavirus: Sweden stands firm over its controversial COVID-19 approach’, 4 August, online.

Ioannidis, John (2020: 17 March) ‘A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data’, 17 March, Stat, online.

Ioannidis, John P.A. (2020: 14 July) ‘The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data’, Medrixiv, online.

Lee, Stephanie M. (2020) ‘An Elite Group Of Scientists Tried To Warn Trump Against Lockdowns In March’, BuzzFeed, 24 July, online.

Sullum, Jacob (2020: 23 July) ‘There Is More Than One COVID-19 Infection Fatality Rate’, Reason, online.

Sullum, Jacob (2020: 29 September) ‘The Latest CDC Estimates of COVID-19’s Infection Fatality Rate Vary Dramatically With Age’, Reason, 29 September, online.

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0use4msm
0use4msm
Oct 22, 2020 11:24 AM

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. Anderson writes:

John Ioannidis is a scientist who (with colleagues including Jay Bhattacharya) has engaged in political lobbying of the Trump administration since mid-March, to prevent a ‘lockdown’, based on his ‘relatively harmless’ view vs likely economic damage. Several of his arguments are now touted by Trump (see Stephanie Lee).

Anderson is attempting to smear Ioannidis by associating him with Trump, as if Trump’s moral failings and (perceived or real) poor understanding of science somehow rubs off on Ioannidis by the magical act of rhetorically linking the two in a sentence.

If Ioannidis has serious concerns about the national/global response to Covid based on his professional research, and given the extreme consequences of that response, why would it be wrong for him to lobby the government of his country to steer its course for the better, regardless of which political party happens to be in power at the time? To not do so at the expense of so many people’s livelihoods (especially the poor, who are the most affected by the Covid measures), on account of not wanting to make Trump seem effective (Marx’s Verelendung, deliberate immiseration of a population for political gain), is not only cynical but highly immoral.

Lobbying rightfully has a bad name, but only because it tends to be done by the wealthy for corrupt reasons. If Ioannidis is indeed “lobbying”, he is not doing so for personal gain.

0use4msm
0use4msm
Oct 22, 2020 11:53 AM
Reply to  0use4msm

If the paragraph quoted above is not intended as smear, I cannot think of any other reason why Anderson brought it up, as it has no relevance to the debate.

Howard
Howard
Oct 20, 2020 4:58 PM

Dr Anderson is doing the same thing he did in his opening statement: keeping it as general as possible. And in doing so, he implies Dr Rancourt is shown to be wrong precisely for being too specific.

The moment someone brings the term “logical fallacy” into the discussion, I question what they’re arguing. That concept is barely a step above dismissing an opponent because he mispronounced a word or two. Doesn’t carry half as much weight as those who throw it about imagine.

Kevin
Kevin
Oct 20, 2020 4:14 AM

Better than the first but no cigar. question for dr anderson: can u explain why the flu is nonexistent in the southern hemisphere this year? I just saw a physician quoted as saying, “In 40 years Ive never seen a flu season so mild.” coincidence? of course, ive already heard its from social distancing but we all know the evidence for that is scant. perhaps bc the flu has the same symptoms? i tried to share the graph but off guardian said it was too big ?? https://www.who.int/influenza/gisrs_laboratory/updates/flunet_globalviruscirculation_20201009.pdf?ua=1

Alexandre Posoukh
Alexandre Posoukh
Oct 19, 2020 9:39 PM

Here is Chapter 3 (IFR) of my book COVID 2020: World in the Petri Dish:

Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) is probably one of the most important questions that requires answering at the outset of any infectious outbreaks. Without knowing IFR related to any new pathogen, it is impossible to compare it to other communicable diseases. This comparison is crucial as it allows for response calibration that might entail restrictive and quarantine measures. Unfortunately, the authorities have consistently refrained from answering the IFR question based on open and well-reasoned discussion. Instead, they predominantly relied on obfuscation and stonewalling in order to advance policies that didn’t comport to available data. Below is a discussion on the evolution of this debate.

Here is the link to the book on Amazon, it is free: https://www.amazon.ca/COVID-2020-World-Petri-DIsh-ebook/dp/B08FGB2W19/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=covid+2020&qid=1603152011&sr=8-7   

Alexandre Posoukh
Alexandre Posoukh
Oct 20, 2020 1:01 AM

How about this format? – Chapter 3 (IFR) of my book COVID 2020: World in the Petri Dish – ” Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) is probably one of the most important questions that requires answering at the outset of any infectious outbreaks. Without knowing IFR related to any new pathogen, it is impossible to compare it to other communicable diseases. This comparison is crucial as it allows for response calibration that might entail restrictive and quarantine measures. Unfortunately, the authorities have consistently refrained from answering the IFR question based on open and well-reasoned discussion. Instead, they predominantly relied on obfuscation and stonewalling in order to advance policies that didn’t comport to available data. Below is a discussion on the evolution of this debate.”

Here is the link to the book on Amazon, it is free. https://www.amazon.ca/COVID-2020-World-Petri-DIsh-ebook/dp/B08FGB2W19/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=covid+2020&qid=1603152011&sr=8-7    

rraa
rraa
Oct 19, 2020 9:05 PM

The people who died in Sweden were in fact the elderly who were locked up! 85% of the deaths occurred within LOCKED UP care homes. It was the only thing in Sweden that was locked up. Yes elderly people are vulnerable but the social isolation may be far more debilitating.

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 8:41 PM

“His second error is to mix insinuations of a global conspiracy (without evidence) with an argument over ‘virulence’ which founds itself on scientific evidence.” Oh my. Sorry Tim. Protecting the scammers won’t protect you or your arguments.

Nick Vasey
Nick Vasey
Oct 19, 2020 7:23 PM

For anyone who is interested … my comprehensive article on the CoronaVirus nonsense. comment image Read it and weep. If it resonates, please share. comment image

Technocracy in the Time of CoronaVirus – 2020 – A Litmus-Test for Human Stupidity. Witness the Craven Obeisance of Bootlickers for Obviously Corrupt & Malignant Authority.

Patina
Patina
Oct 20, 2020 12:01 AM
Reply to  Nick Vasey

One of the best articles I’ve read since this Corona virus scam began. The research, the links, and the memes are amazing. Well done!

Nick Vasey
Nick Vasey
Oct 20, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  Patina

Thanks very much. The best thing you can do is share that shit around. Appreciated! 🙂

richard
richard
Oct 19, 2020 1:04 PM

You only need to know three things- has the virus been Isolated – CDC- NO. Is the PCR test a valid test- CDC- NO. Is a German, international lawyer who took down VW and Deutsche bank for fraud taking corporations to court for pushing a covid pandemic – yes.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 19, 2020 4:24 PM
Reply to  richard

Also, what exactly is the disease (problem) and how is it being diagnosed clinically?

Mike Gee
Mike Gee
Oct 19, 2020 7:47 PM
Reply to  richard

They are so fucked. They will probably hang themselves when is starts sinking in. lol.

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  richard

Agreed, but as James Corbett noted, those big corporations weren’t taken down. Deutsche Banks is alive and well and corrupt. At the time that James made that observation, he also noted that there was no action, or even information, to report on in connection with Reiner Fuellmich’s lawsuit. James, as am I, was happy to see the announcement of this lawsuit, but….

richard
richard
Oct 19, 2020 1:00 PM

“I do not know anyone who knows anyone who has died of this thing”, he says, suggesting it cannot be very dangerous. This proves nothing, any more than the fact that I do personally know of such deaths and illnesses. Trying to prove the general from the particular is a basic logical fallac” and yet i know lots of people who get Flu every year.

Juliet Reynolds
Juliet Reynolds
Oct 19, 2020 3:15 PM
Reply to  richard

Agreed. This proves nothing. Though I’m against the proposition, I’m afraid that Round 1 goes to Dr. Anderson just on account of this ridiculous assertion. It’s enough to drive any lock down sceptic into the arms of the mainstream. Disappointing.

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 8:45 PM

Nonsense.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 19, 2020 5:41 PM
Reply to  richard

Richard & Juliet, how many people do you _personally_ know who died of Covid-19? I put the same question previously on this thread, and asked readers: What say Ye? To date, no OffG reader has replied with personal knowledge of somebody who died with Covid-19 on the death certificate.

None of my friends or family have died of Covid-19. Neither have the friends or family of any neighbour whom I asked. What say Ye?

“Bring out your dead!”

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 8:47 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Obviously. We are not to think. We are not to see and know and care. Caring means knowing. We are simply meant to believe and obey the fascist authorities who Tim defends. One of the things that we should all know by now is that WHO changed the definition of pandemic in order to exclude ‘deaths’. But please don’t notice no deaths. The health of the vaccine markets depends on it.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 20, 2020 5:04 AM
Reply to  Arby

@Arby: “WHO changed the definition of pandemic in order to exclude ‘deaths’.”

I did not know that, but should have. Thanks for pointing it out. So now the WHO, bribed by Bill “Vaccine” Gates, has handed the global Capitalist regime a perfect cover for their Con-19 $cam.

Arby
Arby
Oct 20, 2020 12:46 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

No worries. Yes, Many powerful and rich schemers, fearing an honest job, have busied themselves dreaming up problems that they tell themselves are profitable solutions. They are free to do so – for now. But their party isn’t going to last a lot longer. Individual members of the predator class have unique contributions to the overall plan, namely the 4th industrial revolution, aka a Big Problem. They have unique contributions and unique skills and their own agendas but they overlap. The Devil has brought them together and unleashed them upon the world. He’s angry and he has nothing to use against God in his fight with God except God’s love for mankind. We are sort of kidnapped. The Devil will exert pressure on us with the primary goal of causing us to reject God and join him in his darkness. That, the Devil knows, hurts God. But the Devil also knows that he can’t defeat God and it makes him crazy and angrier still and then we have to deal with the consequences of that – but not for much longer. That’s my belief. I know I’m in a tiny minority here.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Oct 20, 2020 5:43 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

For reference, Reiner Fuellmich alludes to this at about minute 8 of his recent presentation.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/GnKQF7Ulyop5/

rraa
rraa
Oct 19, 2020 9:24 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

I know one lady in a Canadian care home who died of neglect. She had dementia and heart disease and after two months of no visits and activities started refusing food and had a stroke. Despite a negative test, she was labelled suspected covid. That care home along with many others is now the subject of lawsuits. Other than that I know of a) friend’s aunt’s neighbour and b) neighbour’s friend’s uncle who allegedly died of covid.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 20, 2020 4:46 AM
Reply to  rraa

Rraa, at last a reader responds: you personally knew one old lady in a “Locked Up” care home who died of loneliness, depression, loss of appetite and stroke.

And you “know of” 2 others, but not personally?

By my reckoning that makes 0. Same total of personally known deceased as witnessed by Dr.Rancourt, by myself, and by the relatives, friends and neighbours whom we questioned.

“Bring out your dead!”

rraa
rraa
Oct 20, 2020 10:27 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Yes I know! That is my point. And I live in a place that was on the front pages of the global media for being a pandemic hotspot in March. One day, in desperation, I decided to ask random people on the street if they knew anyone who had covid. So while waiting in the socially distanced line for the supermarket, I asked the person in front of me. She said that she had a relative who had a family friend who had died of covid….a woman in her late 80s who was already on oxygen long before covid. It seems the two children of the lady, both in their 60s, also had covid and only one survived. The male sibling who was a heavy smoker also died. Having looked into the data over eight months, I am convinced that the deaths came from the disorganized state of the medical system in March and April, not from the virus itself. As soon as the system got its act together (and stopped unnecessary intubation) the death rate dropepd.
My personal total of first hand acquaintances is still zero and I hope it remains that way.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 20, 2020 1:04 PM
Reply to  rraa

@rraa: “As soon as the [medical] system … stopped unnecessary intubation the death rate dropped.”

By Intubation I presume you refer to Ventilators. Right from the start there were protests from nurses in the U$A, who said doctors were killing patients by inserting ventilators deep into their lungs. One U$ medic wrote how patients were dying in spite of his heroic struggle to save them. I wondered, Ventilator?

rraa
rraa
Oct 20, 2020 2:42 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Yes. Sometime in February I discovered the CGTN channel. In late Feb / early March when things were calming down in Wuhan I saw several videos with Chinese doctors and an inside look at the ICU. What I saw was: intubation is a huge deal! In China they mechanically ventilated very few patients.You need a whole team of people just to flip a person over which needs to happen from time to time. It is supposed to be done only when the patient’s muscles have totally shut down.
Otherwise, your reflexes work against the ventilator. China did the first autopsies in late February. And me being a complete nobody, I knew by the first week of March that randomly intubating anyone and everyone is a BAD IDEA. It should be reserved for certain circumstances. The pathologist who did the autopsy explained that the lungs were found to be like wet sponges, passageways were inflamed. Forcing air through that is the worst thing to do.
They were also clear that there is no “one” silver bullet. It depends on the patient. They had about 6 different protocols that they followed. Yet Europe and North America paid no attention to any of this and pretended they had discovered fire when they did their first autopsies about 6-8 weeks later.
In Bergamo you had the Sky news team wandering around an ICU as if they were at a football game! No wonder people died.
The geopolitics around this virus has been criminal.
Another question might be: bring out your injured! I personally know of at least four people (all people I know well) whose medical treatment for other reasons has suffered quite a bit since medical systems decided covid is the only disease left in the world.

Juliet Reynolds
Juliet Reynolds
Oct 20, 2020 2:34 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Dr Maroudas, as a matter of fact I do know people, and my immediate friends know people, who have died of or with Covid (you used both prepositions so I’m responding likewise, but we all know there’s a massive distinction). The victims are not very numerous and I have no inkling of what’s written on the death certificates of any of them. All I know is that their families, friends and neighbours report or believe that they died of Covid. So how do you think they’ll feel if I stand up and say “I do not know anyone who knows anyone who has died of this thing”? Outrage, offence and anger are the first reactions to come to mind.

As I wrote in my response to Richard, I am against the proposition. I have been opposing the mainstream narrative tooth and nail and I continue to do so. I dream of the day, no doubt unrealistically, that the evil men and women responsible for everything (and they are legion) are put on trial in The Hague or Nuremburg for crimes against humanity. This is why Dr. Rancourt’s statement is so disappointing. I had hoped to find in his words the logic and clarity to reinforce my view in order to help enlighten others. Isn’t this the point of a debate?

I must mention finally that I live in India and I’ll end by quoting from a Facebook post from a person in Calcutta which under normal circumstances at this time of year celebrates the victory of good evil in a festival called Durga Puja. This is part of her anguished and angry message:

“There is a raging argument in a Calcutta oriented group where a gentleman… goes on proposing that it is the right thing to do, to allow Calcuttans to go forth and multiply their viruses during Puja. He refers to the The Great Barrington Declaration and keeps going back to it. I was asked by a few to write a post there, but the admin says it’s too long and rejected it, so what the heck, my wall is mine… Here’s what I responded…

“So you live in the privileged world of Swindon. I wish you would stick to going round and round its roundabouts and not comment on things you have no clue about. Crowd control and monitoring has not been possible even in the developed world and you expect that to happen during Durga Puja in Calcutta? Seriously? I would love to inhabit the lala land you inhabit because it’s a whole lot better than the one we are living in. In WB alone, 54 doctors have died as of yesterday. Countless front line workers, nurses, ward boys, police, NGO workers have died and are dying as I write this. These are families where the light has gone out of their lives and the dhaak of the puja will come to hit their hearts in ways you will never understand unless you lose someone dear so close to Puja…
Yesterday, a 29 year old doctor from Calcutta died. The disease is closing in on us and the numbers are now names. I have myself lost 7 very dear people and countless others I knew…”

Do you have a reply Dr Maroudas? I do hope so. And I mean it.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 20, 2020 4:56 PM

Juliet, thanks for replying. The debate has done its work, and most readers on this thread are against the proposition, thus agreeing with you and Dr.Rancourt. So your only disappointment is over Dr.Rancourt’s question, which I think was designed to bring this alleged Pandemic into perspective.

Do you personally know someone who died of Covid-19?

You answer, “I do know people…. who have died of or with Covid.”

How many people (I mean people you knew personally) caught a cold this year and died?
How old were they? Did they have any other ailments?

You need not bother whether the “Covid” on their death certificate was the dreaded Covid-19 or one of the other Covids that take part in annual flu epidemics. Dr.Rancourt’s question is simply, how many people did you personally know this year who started by sneezing, went on to severe coughing, then died?

Nick Maroudas

Juliet Reynolds
Juliet Reynolds
Oct 21, 2020 8:45 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

I’m not satisfied with your response. Firstly, you’ve substantially rephrased Dr Rancourt’s question. And secondly, while I personally may agree that Covid has killed few, less than those who succumb to the annual flu, I still have no coherent answer for that woman in Calcutta.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 21, 2020 5:15 PM

Possibly you have no coherent answer because the woman has no coherent question. As far as I can see, she is simply parroting Con-19 scare stories.

But viewed in the light of Dr.Rancourt’s question, to which the answer is usually 0, your correspondent is rather unusual because she personally knows more than 7:

“I have myself lost 7 very dear people and countless others I knew…”

Can you ask your correspondent to specify her “7 very dear people”, when did they die, how old, and what other illnesses did they have? Did she see all 7 begin sneezing then coughing then saying they could not breathe then dying?

As for the “countless others” that she knew who died, can you ask her to try counting them, and reporting same as for the 7 above?

Thanks, Nick Maroudas PhD Eng.

Howard
Howard
Oct 20, 2020 3:12 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

I believe most of us can answer only in the negative. I don’t know of anyone, and only one neighbor claimed to know someone who died of COVID-19.

More importantly, my sister – who works in retail and sees hundreds of customers a day – has only had one customer say she knew someone (her husband) who was listed as having died of COVID-19. The thing is, this lady’s husband was already dying of cancer and was sent to the hospital as a terminal patient – yet was listed officially as dying of COVID-19.

Even more importantly, not one person who works with my sister has so far come down with this deadly monstrously infective disease.

Orage
Orage
Oct 22, 2020 1:52 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Maybe, just maybe, the commenters of OG do not represent the population. They are a self selected echochamber of keyboard warriors who by sheer dint of being so preoccupied that they have effectively self isolated?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 19, 2020 7:23 AM

For lay people including Tim what could be more compelling than the following sequence of arguments for scientific fraud vs the argument against scientific fraud:

— a case made for scientific fraud (two independent journalists, Torsten Engelbrecht and Konstantin Demeter) – Jun 27, 2020
— followed by counter argument (“fact-checking” website PolitiFact) – Jul 7, 2020
— followed by counter counter argument (journalists) – Jul 31, 2020
— followed by nonresponse from those initiating the counter argument

In addition, any reasonably intelligent critical thinker can work out from the arguments for and against that scientific fraud has been used to push the existence of:
— the alleged SARS-CoV-2 virus
— the alleged disease from the virus, COVID-19
— the pandemic

It is as clear as day when you look at the for and against arguments. Surely, a site such as PolitiFact would have the resources to find some compelling evidence of SARS-CoV-2 if any such evidence were available and come back to debunk the debunking of their debunking – then again their first attempt at debunking is so utterly lame it is very hard to credit they would expose themselves as complete fools as they do.

Nothing more compelling than debunking of the debunkers followed by complete silence!

https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/debunking-the-debunkers-pcr-tests-scientifically-meaningless

Howard
Howard
Oct 20, 2020 4:52 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Debunking is strictly playing to the choir. Only those who already believe what the debunkers say pay any attention to them in the first place – and they know that. So they don’t need to take the time to debunk a debunking of their original debunking, since their choir would not have read the debunking of their debunking.

We know that debunking is simply a propaganda tool created to send a message. That message is “It’s been debunked; therefore it cannot be true or accurate.” And there are lots of folks who buy into that nonsense.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Oct 20, 2020 11:30 PM
Reply to  Howard

True, however, it does make it more compelling for those who suspect fraudulence but are unsure. Also, you have to show no critical thinking skills to accept the debunking even without the rebuttal … but there’s lots of no critical thinking around, that is for sure … it abounds.

The thing is people may possess perfectly good critical thinking skills where they are not invested in their belief but so many people don’t just believe something, they are highly invested in that belief.

Alexandre Posoukh
Alexandre Posoukh
Oct 19, 2020 4:11 AM

Here is the part of Chapter 6 of my book COVID 2020 that is devoted to Sweden (the country Dr. Anderson prefers to cherry pick data from) – Of course, we can’t leave Europe without Sweden. No, we can’t leave the world without Sweden. I think even Martians are looking at Sweden. So, what is it about Sweden? For the mainstream media, it was a recalcitrant child who recklessly engaged in the practice of human sacrifice. Russia Today breathlessly reported “Sweden using ice rinks and shipping containers as morgues overflow due to Covid-19 deaths”. Another headline read “Unforgivably Cruel”, yet another emphasized “Herd Immunity Strategy is Deadly and Unethical”. So, what was Sweden’s fault exactly? Well, they simply decided to follow very long established and somewhat affirmed practices by Spanish Flu experiences. More precisely, they isolated the symptomatic, put a 50-person limit on gatherings, encouraging such hygienic measures as washing of hands, recommended working from home when possible, closed universities and senior secondary schools, and restricted seating in restaurants. All these were absolutely reasonable measures, but, “a big but”, there was no lockdown in the sense of forceful business closures, there was no ban on outdoor activities, on social contact, elementary schools, etc. – Swedish authorities endeavored to strike a real balance between the restrictive measures, pandemic effects, economic stability and mental health. They also had a great deal of excess hospital capacity. In all these decisions they followed available science almost to perfection. And yet they were demonized for refusing to institute general population lockdowns, for attempting to keep economic impacts to a minimum and to keep life as normal as possible. Most of all, the government refrained from constantly bombarding their population with messages of catastrophe and panic. And this was not allowed in the polite class of the “developed” nations.

Now, getting back to results. We all know by now that Covid-19 affects different age groups in vastly different fashion. Since Sweden regularly publishes its statistics for those under 65 and above 65, let’s use 65 as a breaking point. So, if we look at excess mortality in Sweden for those under 65, it is virtually ZERO17. In other words, no more people died in Sweden in 2020 versus the average of the previous five years. By this measure, Sweden is currently achieving a perfect score. It appears to be even ahead of the likes of Germany since their policies seems, so far, to have minimized any lockdown effects in this age bracket. But this is not what you typically hear from morning newspapers.

At the time of this writing, Sweden excess mortality in 2020 versus the average of the previous five years is approximately 3,600, which

correspond to 6.1% for the period from January to July. Virtually all of this excess mortality relates to the over 65 age category. Sweden’s excess mortality, while significant, tracks below excess mortality exhibited by several European countries like France, Italy, UK and Spain. And this

you are unlikely to hear on the nightly news. What you would hear from morning newspapers is that Sweden compares unfavorably to its immediate Scandinavian neighbors – Norway, Finland and Denmark. A typical narrative goes like this “see, Sweden didn’t lock down, Norway did, and managed better results! Lockdowns work!”. So, let’s consider the situation in a bit more detail. For starters, Sweden’s demographics are rather different from Norway and, particularly, Finland. In fact, Finland’s immigrant population is somewhere between 7-8%19. Norway’s is closer to 17%. Sweden’s pushes 18-20%18 due to its rather liberal immigration policies. Why is this important? This is because, as the course of the pandemic in Europe and North America has demonstrated, those with genetic roots in South Asia and Africa appear to be much heavier hit by the pandemic. A person of South Asian descent in London, as an example, is up to 20%20 more likely to succumb to Covid-19 than a Caucasian. In Sweden, the same story was valid for its large Somali community. Now, the science is not exactly certain what are the exact reasons behind such differences. It might be related to vitamin D, poorer living conditions, higher prevalence of diabetes and heart disease. All these factors are now being intensively studied; however, the difference is unquestionably there. Also, Sweden has larger urban centers with higher population density than Norway or Finland, and its mobility patterns seem to exhibit higher degree of population interactions. All of the above make Sweden to be more similar demographically to the UK than to Finland.  

Now, let’s consider a specific Scandinavian comparison. One interesting set of observations relates to comparison between southern Sweden (Malmo region) and northern Denmark (Copenhagen region). Very comparable demographically and located next to one another. Separated just by a bridge-tunnel, these two regions show very similar results, despite that Denmark imposed a strict lockdown in March while Sweden didn’t. In fact, just about the totality of Covid-19 deaths was attributed to Stockholm region. Up to 80% of its Covid-19 death toll was attributed to nursing homes located in this area. What could account for such concentration? No single factor stands out with one exception – nursing homes were, like in NY and UK, the receptors of untested, carelessly discharged elderly patients. In addition, routine care for non-Covid-19 nursing patients was withheld like with cases in France, Spain and elsewhere. Also, the management of Stockholm nursing homes was lax and badly controlled as per Swedish authorities. These were the same mistakes one saw in all jurisdictions with high excess mortality. In Canada, Ontario and Quebec were the culprits, for example. The totality of Swedish failures was not the lack of lockdowns but the management of senior care. To further solidify Sweden’s strategy, some analysts noted that the curve of the Swedish pandemic was very different from Finnish. This is because the Swedish excess deaths peaked in the first two weeks after the lockdown could have been imposed. In other words, they peaked on their own irrespective of measures. In Finland, the same two weeks after the imposition of lockdown were flat, confirming the hunch of the former chief Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke that Finland was less affected for reasons unrelated to lockdowns. Why did Finland and Norway have milder outbreaks? There is an explanation – previous flu season (2018/19) was significantly milder in Sweden than n these countries. This has built up a larger susceptible population in Sweden for the 2019/20 season. 

 Amazingly, Sweden’s Anders Tegnell was the only chief health officer/epidemiologist/politician among countless others who admitted and apologized for the nursing home mistakes, although a part of them was probably unavoidable due to the milder 2018/19 season as per the explanation in the previous paragraph. In contrast, Cuomo of NY, hailed as the hero of the pandemic, completely avoided taking any responsibility for his handling of nursing homes. After Tegnell’s apology, the world press lit up “Sweden’s mea culpa – lockdowns work!”. Aside from being a complete fabrication, such headlines completely missed the boat on Tegnell’s main message – “doing less sometimes is better than doing too much”.

Alexandre Posoukh
Alexandre Posoukh
Oct 19, 2020 4:12 AM

Continued – In May 2020, Norway’s health minister Stoltenberg quietly came out with endorsement of Sweden’s general approach. She called lockdowns “unsustainable” and advised opening of schools. She also implied that Norway needed to acquire higher levels of natural immunity on its way out of the lockdown. This posed a veritable dilemma for such “success” countries as New Zealand. Yes, they might have been either lucky or astute in their ability to suppress the virus, but what’s next? Is the answer to keep the island isolated forever? Concurrently, Denmark began opening schools; Austria did the same as well, while WHO commended Swedish model as an “example” for all. The cooler heads seem to indicate that less panic and intervention was a preferred and most importantly more sustainable scenario not just for Europe but for the world. But this is not what you found out in regular press and social media where Sweden continued to be demonized. The mainstream in the West, particularly in North America, wanted to look the other way. They generally disregarded their own elephants in the room like seven American states with no excess mortality that never issued “shelter in place” orders while the most affected states all had strict lockdown levels. The mainstream didn’t want to hear that its experts perhaps didn’t know everything after all. Perhaps the course of the pandemic didn’t depend on mass testing, contact tracing, masks, lockdowns and alike, but depended on the general and sometimes unknown localized effects that were more predicated on specific demographics, out-of-the-box clinical treatments like HCQ (hydroxychloroquine), and most of all how all jurisdictions managed to shield its most vulnerable populations, particularly in institutionalized setting like nursing homes. The latter appears to have been affected as much by sheer luck as by badly designed policies that led to a few localized catastrophes.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 19, 2020 7:17 AM

A welcome contribution from someone who seems to know more about Public Health in Sweden than Dr.Anderson does.

Jan J
Jan J
Oct 19, 2020 10:59 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

It’s either funny or sad (you decide) when random posters on an alternative site makes more sense than the combined “wisdom” of the worlds “experts”.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 19, 2020 5:50 PM
Reply to  Jan J

Neither Dr.Anderson nor Dr.Rancourt are experts in medicine; they are two intelligent people opening a debate on Con-19 for the benefit of us the readers. The editors of OffG have given generous space ATL to genuine experts on the subject in other threads. But it is a relief when a reader BTL turns out to be also an expert.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 19, 2020 6:14 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

PS what is truly funny, sad, and even sinister is the scarcity of equal and uncensored debate on media elsewhere.

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Oct 19, 2020 1:57 PM

Thanks for taking the trouble to provide such a thorough analysis. I will study this in more detail later and may well post it elsewhere.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:02 PM

The case of Taiwan (pop 23m on a small island) is illuminating. Their medical professionals endorsed and used HCQ correctly and routinely from the earliest stages of the pandemic. 7 fatalities. When will UK journalists and opposition politicians challenge officialdom for their unbelievable blindness and fatal incompetence?

John the First
John the First
Oct 20, 2020 3:28 AM

When will be never, journalists have ever been there to support some societal collective consensus narrative, which is always about some illusion. As soon as some of them wake up, they leave the business or are forced to leave. And the public doesn’t want them either. The question is rather, when will you depart from your faith in journalism.

Schmitz Katze
Schmitz Katze
Oct 18, 2020 9:46 PM

more bad news on the coronoia front and I do not “tar” Mr. Anderson as a certain helper just
try not to burst into laughter, it could infect others.
It reminds me of a fairy tale book from childhood of a boy who sold his laughter and how he got it back, for realizing his great loss he did everything for the sake of the return of the ability to laugh. Timm Thaler ( Dollar) refused a lot of things from a certain Santa Klaus (Schwab)& his helpers and so should we.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1317696929443287041

sam2
sam2
Oct 19, 2020 12:32 AM
Reply to  Schmitz Katze

and meanwhile no news coverage of the London rally yesterday
http://stateofthenation.co/?p=32421

Francesca
Francesca
Oct 18, 2020 9:02 PM

Yet another reason to follow Tim Anderson
Bravo prof!
I bought your “The Dirty War on Syria” and commended it to others
You’re a true academic, uncowed by the mob
Thank You!

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:04 PM
Reply to  Francesca

uncowed by the academic and MSM mob, right?

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
Oct 18, 2020 8:16 PM

Dr Scott Atlas:
Masks work? NO: LA, Miami, Hawaii, Alabama, France, Phlippnes, UK, Spain, Israel. WHO: “widesprd use not supported” + many harms; Heneghan/Oxf CEBM: “despite decades, considerble uncertainty re value”; CDC rvw May: “no sig red’n in inflnz transm’n”; learn why.
Tweet: Oct 17, 2020
Removed by Twitter: Oct 18

Follow-up Tweet:
https://twitter.com/SWAtlasHoover/status/1317466976651038720
3:06 PM · Oct 17, 2020
Scott W. Atlas
@SWAtlasHoover
That means the right policy is @realDonaldTrump guideline: use masks for their intended purpose – when close to others, especially hi risk. Otherwise, social distance. No widespread mandates. #CommonSense
https: // twitter.com /SWAtlasHoover/status/1317465173347700740
This Tweet is unavailable.

See:
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/10/18/twitter-removes-tweet-top-trump-coronavirus-adviser-saying-masks-dont-work/

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
Oct 19, 2020 7:48 AM

#LockdownsKill

https://twitter.com/SWAtlasHoover/status/1317199337320054789
9:22 PM · Oct 16, 2020
Scott W. Atlas
@SWAtlasHoover
Famous public health “experts” testing & isolating asymptomatics, limiting in-person school, restricting businesses… That’s the DEFINITION of lockdown! Why care? Got another email from a wife of a suicide victim – pleading for me to OPEN America. End the insanity #LockdownsKill

https://twitter.com/hashtag/LockdownsKill?src=hashtag_click

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:07 PM

Trump the anti-authoritarian fighting the system again. He’s also refusing to make vaccination obligatory, thus spiking Gates.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-says-he-wont-force-americans-take-covid-19-vaccine

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Oct 18, 2020 7:42 PM

“Doctor” Anderson is lying. Again.

Edwige
Edwige
Oct 18, 2020 6:25 PM

The only reason there’s no national lockdown in the UK currently is so that this policy of selective lockdowns can continue that makes it look as if Johnson is deliberately penalising the so-called ‘red wall’ seats and they come scurrying back to Labour so Baby Blair can get in, reverse Brexit and introduce all kind of Great Reset and technocratic nightmares.

I’m no Johnson fan but if he’s bright enough, if any of this was real, not to follow a policy that hits hardest his most crucial electoral support. Who on earth would do that? It only makes any sense if Johnson is an actor sent in to discredit populism in general and Brexit specifically.

Let me stress again that I’m not greatly bothered about the E.U.one way or the other. The issue is that it is a building block towards a one-world government.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:14 PM
Reply to  Edwige

Why assume Boris doesn’t follow Gates and Soros-directed Common Cause? You know the government’s top experts and much of SAGE are beholden to Gates and big pharma, right? They have Boris nicely under control, unlike Fauci and CDC friends against that Orange Monster. That’s why Gates’ buddy Xi is supporting the effort to capture US democracy via puppet Biden.

JGerhard
JGerhard
Oct 18, 2020 6:05 PM

Real Pandemic

Everyone knows seriously ill and/or dead people from the immediate area.

Doctor’s office and hospitals in the entire country are overcrowded

There are a lot of deaths.

Politicians and doctors do everything to calm down people.

Politician do everything to keep the economy going

Facts are sought and found in a wide range of specialist committees, and every meaningful help in need is accepted.

There are (at best) no organized profiteers

A quick end and a timely, appropriate all-clear according to clear guidelines are sought

People are afraid of dying and do everything they can to protect themselves, with politicians providing information about unnecessary overreactions

People are struggling with a humanitarian disaster.

Staged Pandemic

Cases of illness are only known from the media or from stories of others.

Short-time work and vacancies in hospitals, increased anxious patients in doctor’s office.

Constant year-over-year mortality,

Politician do everything to spread panic and to intimidate people.

Economy is deliberately stalled. Entire sectors are being destroyed.

Renowned scientists are ignored and publicly discredited in the media.

Billions in profits through collusion, deals and lobbying

Changing findings, constantly adjusted guidelines and ever new regulations prolong the pandemic.

People fear punishment, measures are enforced through social pressure, police violence and heavy fines.

People are struggling with a humanitarian disaster.

What do you think?
Real or staged pandemic?

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:18 PM
Reply to  JGerhard

I think real or staged democracy is a more fundamental question. Does Boris serve the concerns and interests of the British people forever forced to fund government, or is he the elites’ puppet, reliably dancing to ‘the false song of globalism’, as Trump calls it?

John the First
John the First
Oct 20, 2020 3:44 AM
Reply to  JGerhard

Real life

No journalism , no ubiquitous mass media, no politicized mass man = no hypes, no mass delusions, hysteria and psychosis.

Delusional

Journalism , ubiqitous mass media, politiziced mass man = hypes, mass delusions, hysteria and psychosis.

The framework or network and its nodes of distribution for the current situation is created by the democratic people themselves. It has produced tons of hypes, mass hysteria and delusion all throughout the twentieth century, where 9-11, the human caused climate change, and now the covid scare are the pineacleof the art of employing this network of distribution of illusion and mass psychosis. Crowd psychology, none of the alternative or oppositional media talk about it an honest way because they all have their small interests in this network, including this medium.
So actually the opposition is up to people who have developed the art of using the network better, and who depart from the reality of crowd psychology. So called MSM media is the product of mediocre mass man, and alternative media, or at least some, are the last resort for those ‘who can’t believe what’s happening’, still clinging on to their democratic articles of faith.

JGerhard
JGerhard
Oct 18, 2020 5:03 PM

Objection:
-The WHO inadvertedly? recently confirmed that the IFR is as low as 0.14%.
-The CDC revised deaths clearly of Covid down to Ioannidis number of around 10.000.
Who is citing numbers selectively and wrongly here?!

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:27 PM
Reply to  JGerhard

WHO officials now say lockdowns only make the poor poorer, and should be avoided as worse than useless. But I’m pretty sure British officialdom won’t be admitting its disastrous error and lifting lockdown anytime soon (Strangely, they also continue to fully endorse WHO propaganda about ‘dangerous’ HCQ). The fact that the MSM and opposition politicians won’t speak truth to power on this explains my confidence. Just one Tory has had the courage to say the cure was worse than the disease, and quit Boris’s clown-show government.

JayTe
JayTe
Oct 18, 2020 3:15 PM

I would also add a couple of points to other statements from Mr. Anderson.
Infection Fatality Rate: I would be interested to know the source he is sighting for his figures. There is a clear relationship between infections, death, population and implied herd immunity. Critics often like to pull out numbers to justify their arguments (like 1% IFR for a whole population or saying that we haven’t reached herd immunity until we reach 60% infection rate in the population) without understanding if you actually do the math to link these two parameters it doesn’t add up. So let’s see what countries have IFRs of 1% and let’s look at the trajectory of covid-19 death in those countries and see where they are in terms of herd immunity.

Mr. Anderson says that covid-19 deaths statistics are far higher than have been estimated. If the deaths were actually higher, given all other deaths remaining being within the same range, we would expect to see higher excess deaths in the population. Let’s look at the average monthly deaths in the US:

  • 2017 US deaths: 2.81 million – 234,000/month
  • 2018 US deaths: 2.83 million – 235,000/month
  • 2019 US deaths: 2.86 million – 239,000/month
  • 2020 US deaths through Oct 01: 2.13 million – 236,000/month

I don’t know about you but I don’t see any change in the overall number of deaths in the US. So either covid-19 is having no or a negligible impact on deaths this year. But what is clear is that how deaths are being recorded has definitely changed as shown in this video by Joy M Fritz, former death recording clerk. She highlights the change in how deaths are recorded for covid-19 versus the standard which has been used previously where the underlying cause of deaths was the longest existing condition that caused you initial decline in health. With covid-19, that all changed for no justifiable reason. She also provides links to the change in guidance to hospitals and clincs for how deaths are to be recorded for covid-19 and to the previous approach to recording deaths.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 18, 2020 2:48 PM

I don’t get the point of this exercise, to be honest. It’s like holding a debate between someone who believes in “Santa Clause” and someone who doesn’t. Are we here to politely humor Anderson as we would a crazy uncle at a large family gathering…? The debate we need is between two people with radically different opinions as to how to fight The Covid Hoax. That would be useful.

crank
crank
Oct 18, 2020 3:05 PM

hear hear

S Cooper
S Cooper
Oct 18, 2020 5:57 PM

“What? You don’t believe in OLD JELLY BELLY? What are you a conspiracy theorist? There is going to be coal in your stockings this coming XMAS morn.

But wait they cancelled it due to the SCAMDEMIC. The old fellow did not want to wear a face diaper and the MASK NAZIS believed it would not look good if word got out they had to kick his brains in to compel him to do so.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 2:42 PM

Anna Makanju, Facebook’s Public Policy Manager for Global Elections, is a senior executive working on content regulation. Previously, she was Special Policy Advisor for Europe and Eurasia to Vice President Biden.

That would be, ahh, let’s see…. Biden’s senior policy advisor for Ukraine.
Credit: https://twitter.com/fool_nelson/status/1317141307391942657

This is exactly how the Soros organizations and the Atlantic Council work – they raise up entitled but pretty vacant graduates of good schools (in this case law, NYU) and put them through “the fellowship”. Then they go out into the world and spread the gospel according to homo sorosensus.*

Anna Makanju, 2003 – Paul and Daisy Soros Fellowships
http://www.pdsoros.org › meet-the-fellows › anna-makanju

Anna Makanju is a nonresident senior fellow with the Transatlantic Security Initiative. She is a public policy and legal expert working at Facebook.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org › expert › anna-makanju

*  In his Open Society magazine George Soros said he was trying to create Open Society Man, homo sorosensus. Yes, he named it after himself.

From Open Society News, 2009: “Homo sorosensus would replace homo sovieticus… this new “open society man” (and woman!) would be committed to democracy and the rule of law, exhibit civic courage when necessary, be respectful (not just tolerant) of minorities, support socially equitable markets, and be a good European while remaining a responsible global citizen. The new open society man and woman would have no experience with rigid ideology and suppression of critical thought.”

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 3:07 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

I’m sure fellow readers already know the background:

Makanju would have been party to Facebook’s decision to suppress articles reporting that “Hunter introduced his father to a Ukrainian energy magnate who asked the family to use their influence to shut down an investigation into his company. Another story suggests Hunter Biden used his family name to secure a high-paid job and stock interests in a Chinese company.” — quote from Off-Guardian’s article.

Facebook said these stories on Biden might be misinformation.

Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that paid/pays Hunter $50k a month, is a sponsor of the Atlantic Council which lobbies/acts as a front for NATO in the region. The Atlantic Council frequently puts its fellows and experts on TV news to shape perceptions.

Thus Makanju’s position as a fellow of the Transatlantic Security Initiative of the Atlantic Council makes her a PR person or propagandist, while she also manipulates the coverage of news at Facebook.

In the same way, Twitter has 77th brigade sitting right there in the office – just as CNN has had Pentagon and CIA advisers in the newsroom.

The senior Twitter executive with editorial responsibility for the Middle East is also a part-time officer in the British Army’s psychological warfare unit, Middle East Eye has established.

Gordon MacMillan, who joined the social media company’s UK office six years ago, has for several years also served with the 77th Brigade, a unit formed in 2015 to develop “non-lethal” ways of waging war.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-part-time-officer-uk-army-psychological-warfare-unit

According to a 2019 Pew Research Center report 55% of U.S. adults now get their news from social media either “often” or “sometimes” – an 8% increase from 2018.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:35 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

“…but then evil populism arrived to threaten the ruling elites, and homo sorosensus realised that democracy would have to replaced, that homo sovieticus had been right all along. No way could the dirty masses of uppity commoners ever be allowed to choose leaders not under elite control, who might reject the ruling elites and their benevolent, noble, utopian vision for saving fallen, ignorant humanity from itself…”

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 9:04 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

OS is like dog crap. You can’t get away from it. Or it’s like Bill Gates (who is like dog crap for a few reasons). Whitney Webb is brilliant at connecting all the schemers. I just read her article titled “Google & Oracle to Monitor Americans Who Get Warp Speed’s Covid-19 Vaccine for up to Two Years.” And in the middle of that roundup of schemers and criminals that Whitney looks at, there’s George Soros.

Wilston Pile
Wilston Pile
Oct 18, 2020 2:17 PM

https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c2d6ab2484be97f1ab0eeeed044a47f0?s=64&d=monsterid&r=pg
Western
Oct 18, 2020 2:14 PM
Awaiting spam check

https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e2501481fdc60701e8eda4d38af9fb48?s=64&d=monsterid&r=pg
Londinium
Oct 18, 2020 2:12 PM
Awaiting spam check

There are two groups almost totally unaffected by the Covid virus, if real. They are students and infants, they will not die from the virus or even get ill, yet they are at the core of the measures being taken by governments, with shutting schools and locking up students. Why? The reason is they want all working class education to be move on-line and to be carried out in isolation.
Firstly it means that revolutionary left wing student movements will be dead forever, an aim of the CIA and Secondly: US software and education materials, which will be forced on us, will provide the Empire with direct access to writing history and science to suite their geopolitical agenda in every vassal start that surrenders to this tyranny.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Oct 18, 2020 3:23 PM
Reply to  Wilston Pile

With the added bonuses of ‘Doc’ Billy Eugenics and his CORPORATE FASCIST PSYCHO criminal associates raking in the moolah, having the proles (those that remain after “THE BIG CULL”) paying to him directly for his CORPORATE FASCIST INDOCTRINATION sessions/programs with their kids.

“Such a sweet, sweet guy. Real sweet.”
comment image

EUTHANASIA DEATH SHOT anyone?

Joch
Joch
Oct 18, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

How silly that people pretend that individuals like Bill gates are the problem, when it is clearly far bigger than that.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Oct 18, 2020 4:01 PM
Reply to  Joch

‘Doc’ Billy Eugenics and his CORPORATE FASCIST PSYCHO criminal associates.

Indeed he is far from being alone. Sadly. But his ‘yap’ does make a good target on a dart board.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:57 PM
Reply to  Joch

Gates has huge but questionable financial interests in communist China, and a good relationship with Xi Jinping, often called ‘the red emperor’ (well, he certainly wasn’t elected). Their business together isn’t hindered by silly talk about trade wars or ethical concerns about millions of Muslims in concentration camps, as it is between Xi and Orange Man Bad. But I very much doubt that Xi bows to Gates like Boris and his advisors do.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 4:48 PM
Reply to  Wilston Pile

Critics say that revolutionary student movements which embrace hate and violence against non-leftist Americans, and which have inflicted months of violence, terror and damage on so many US cities and neighbourhoods, are betraying the left’s traditional opposition to violence and bigotry, so ruining its credibility and claim to the moral high ground. The chances of winning future democratic elections are imperilled, they argue. But those who seek power by any means necessary, rather than justice for all regardless of race or creed, can’t worry about any of that. They put power first, not Americans first.

Londinium
Londinium
Oct 18, 2020 2:12 PM

There are two groups almost totally unaffected by the Covid virus, if real. They are students and infants, they will not die from the virus or even get ill, yet they are at the core of the measures being taken by governments, with shutting schools and locking up students. Why? The reason is they want all working class education to be move on-line and to be carried out in isolation.

Firstly it means that revolutionary left wing student movements will be dead forever, an aim of the CIA and Secondly: US software and education materials, which will be forced on us, will provide the Empire with direct access to writing history and science to suite their geopolitical agenda in every vassal start that surrenders to this tyranny.

JayTe
JayTe
Oct 18, 2020 2:00 PM

Mr. Anderson has no legs to stand on in relation to Sweden. In other writings he starts off with a faulty premise in saying that one can compare Sweden to the other Scandinavian countries. As someone who used to lived in Sweden in the 1980s and having been there in more reccent times, as well as travelling in the other scandinavian countries as well, I can say without any doubt (and you can confirm this in interviews with Anders Tegnell no less), Sweden is not like other scandinavian countries. It is far less homogenous than Mr. Anderson would have you believe. If I would compare it to any countries, and this is where I completely agree with Mr. Tegnell, it is Netherlands.

Second, I really enjoy how so many so called experts always point to the deaths per million as a way of justifying their case for saying that Sweden’s policy was a failure. It shows their propensity to cherry pick facts to suit their agenda. If Mr. Anderson had actually dug a bit deeper into the data (i.e. covid-19 deaths by age) he would have discovered that among the working and circulating population (i.e. those under 60), they only represent 4% of covid-19 deaths! Even if you add those up to 69 years of age, we still only get 10%. Of the rest of those covid-19 deaths, 70% were in senior care facilities (i.e. closed environments)! And Sweden’s care facilities in the early part of the crisis, similar to other states like the UK, rather than sending those showing symptoms of illness to a hospital, left them in care facilities to die. One would be hard pressed to pull from this that the Swedish Model (i.e. herd immunity) approach had failed. If there is a failure in Sweden, it was in their senior care facilities. The only part of the country that I know of where seniors were properly care for was Malmo, which had low double digit deaths in care facilities up until now. If what had been done in Malmo in terms of protecting the seniors in closed facilities had been implemented throughout care facilities in Sweden, the deaths would have been even lower! So the argument of the Swedish model failing just doesn’t hold water.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Oct 18, 2020 4:45 PM
Reply to  JayTe

Probably been posted before, but worth a look for anyone who hasn’t seen it / heard it:

Ivor Cummins, in conversation with Dr Sebastian Rushworth, a Swedish ER doctor.

Ep99: ER Doctor from Sweden Explains it all – the Science, Logic & Philosophy!”
https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity

Albert
Albert
Oct 18, 2020 9:26 PM
Reply to  JayTe

I had to reread that line a couple of times.. Im like, what is he talking about? What Sweden did is what every country should have done, minus the nursing home debacle. Over 40% of deaths in NYC were in care homes. And then there is also an additiona class divide in the demographics, in terms of the populations most affected by the disease.

I_left_the_lef
I_left_the_lef
Oct 19, 2020 5:13 PM
Reply to  JayTe

Sweden appalls and frustrates all those politicians, official advisors, do-gooders and petty tyrant bureaucrats still supporting lockdown and masks (and their MSM toadies), because Sweden’s courage in going for herd immunity via no lockdown, and justifying this policy as scientifically correct, reveals them as the spineless, irrational, scientifically-illiterate chickens that they truly are. What’s more, Sweden will never be accused of inflicting a cure much worse than the disease, nor of ruining millions of livelihoods. The UK establishment wants to forget about such consequences forever, but very few outside the ruling classes will ever do so. Democracy and trust in governors lie in ruins.

Buster Bloodvessel
Buster Bloodvessel
Oct 18, 2020 1:43 PM

Isn’t this covid ping-pong getting rather tiresome?
The Believers are never going to change tack , the discourse quickly swings onto other major belief totems eg climate, critiques of “capitalism” etc etc.

while this charade goes on the people in charge are quietly steamrollering our legal rights etc , eg the Covert Human Intelligence Sources act .

One of the only high profile MPs to speak against this backdoor tyranny was David Davis .
Perhaps the folks at Offguardian could approach Mr Davis for an article on the subject.

we have to get out of our respective bunkers and find help and truth where ever it exists.
Also the tone/ attitude of articles and comments at Lockdown Skeptics has moves considerably in recent weeks , they have a much larger following than Offguardian, perhaps some joint ventures/cooperation initiatives would help the cause .

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Oct 18, 2020 4:46 PM

Moved in which direction?

Buster Bloodvessel
Buster Bloodvessel
Oct 18, 2020 5:42 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

People there are realising this isn’t just a string of policy cock-ups but an orchestrated assault on the way of life.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Oct 19, 2020 4:34 PM

I see thanks. I thought that always was their attitude, but I haven’t paid it much attention since they refused or ignored my request to register for comments. And also once I’d realised or remembered who Toby Young was.

I_left_the_lef
I_left_the_lef
Oct 19, 2020 5:24 PM

Boris and co esteem and follow morally-superior globalists like Bill Gates, not dumb gammons from red wall constituencies or even ex-Etonians. Everyone knows that the lives and opinions of Little Englanders and xenophobic morons don’t matter. Saving humanity (ie managing it correctly) is far more important, even Godly. Or maybe Godlike.

I_left_the_lef
I_left_the_lef
Oct 19, 2020 5:19 PM

At Lockdown Skeptics, I never see contributors nor posters attacking or insulting people as the ‘dumb herd’ for accepting lockdown, as if they had imposed it all by themselves. I guess they realise that blaming the victims of the global elites and compliant ruling classes only divides the resistance and helps the globalists.

Edwige
Edwige
Oct 18, 2020 11:16 AM

The Fraudian giving prominent coverage to Don DeLillo… whose new novel just happens to be about a massive power blackout.

They keep throwing new stories out there to distract from how their old stories don’t stack up. How many people have noticed that their narrative about the kidnap plot against Gretchen Whitmer has collapsed, that the alleged plotters turned out to be BLM supporters and included an FBI informant?

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 18, 2020 11:23 AM
Reply to  Edwige

people have noticed!

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 11:26 AM
Reply to  Edwige

I think the word for a plot whose narrative has collapsed is smolletted.

I_left_the_lef
I_left_the_lef
Oct 19, 2020 5:37 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Smollet is (or was) very good friends with Hillary and Obama.

I_left_the_lef
I_left_the_lef
Oct 19, 2020 5:35 PM
Reply to  Edwige

As few as possible, hope the fake news media, as they give loads of coverage to Gretchen’s scapegoating Trump for her own policy disasters. Well, what else could this tyrannical leftist do? Say she was wrong?

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 18, 2020 10:30 AM

Infowars is under attack and down right now because of this looping report. I have it saved to another site.
https://worldchangebrief.webnode.comALERT!! MUST WATCH: ChiCom Blackmail Material on Hunter Biden Is Horrifying Torture of Children/
Chinese Communists Have Fully Infiltrated US Top Politicians/
Laptop Materials Verified/
Big Tech Censoring For ChiComs

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 11:58 AM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

If this turns out to be real, it suggests TPTB (whether Chinese or any other power) demand you compromise yourself as a condition of getting a piece of the action: if you want to do businesses you must provide bona fides in the form of compromising material about yourself.

This is consistent with reports about Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google
https://aim4truth.org/2019/08/31/evil-eric-schmidt-and-his-plan-for-prison-planet/

It is consistent with numerous reports of high ranking politicians who suffered the death of a close relative as the price of admission.

It also comports with what former Dutch banker Ronald Bernard said he witnessed in the the finance industry.

It fits with the rules of the New York-based NXIVM cult of the Bronfmans and Keith Raniere, in which celebrities had to provide compromising material on themselves as a price of rising up the organization.

It’s what we’ve known about Hollywood for decades. The corporatist media and television are full of people in senior positions who have been outed, compromised and promoted.

This one’s not even senior — CNN reporter Richard Quest caught with sex toy in Central Park — but he’s controlled.
And it fits like a glove with the three-decades-long activities of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

These are too many independent and separate sources of information all pointing to the modus operandi of TPTB. And these compromised individuals are running Big Tech, they’re in control of Congress, they keep politicians in line around the world, they’re in control of and controlled by the intelligence agencies and thus infect and provide leverage of key positions in all professions.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 18, 2020 12:44 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Well said, and yes.
Giuliani is putting his entire reputation on the line – like he really has the goods.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 6:19 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

The man who took down the mafia and tamed the crime and violence of NYC (now sadly back again under authoritarian but incompetent Democrats) has one hell of a reputation for fearlessness. But I doubt anyone who hates his great friend Trump will ever credit him for anything.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 19, 2020 9:57 PM

its a bareknuckle fight at this point

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 12:47 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

The chief whip under UK PM Edward Heath admitted his job was to cover up scandals ‘involving small boys’. Tim Fortescue served as a ‘political enforcer’ in Heath’s government from 1970 to 1973. He claimed he hushed up MPs’ scandals but kept details as ‘brownie points’ in a ‘dirt book’.

I think he was partly telling us about his boss: Since Heath’s death there have been allegations of child abuse and even murder.

Now we’re discovering it’s much more organized than that. If there is no dirt on a particular individual it can be created. They can get drunk and wake up next to a small boy or a dead prostitute.

And if they still refuse to comply, it will be they who die: Like Jill Dando and Stephen Milligan, both of whom I worked with. And in more recent times, Liz MacKean. All (ex) BBC. MacKean was investigating Jimmy Savile and Dando is thought to have tried to raise her concerns before her murder which was falsely pinned on an innocent, mentally challenged man.

If wealthy.. well, there’s Vice President Nelson Rockefeller and his son Michael and David Rockefeller’s son, Richard.. and soon you get stories blaming it on a curse… The curse of the Kennedys or in this case: How Rockefeller dynasty has been plagued with tragedy and scandal.

EDIT: I’ve just noticed the sculpture behind Fortescue in this interview. The BBC and government really don’t bother to hide it. As with the sculptures by the pedophile Eric Gill adorning the former BBC HQ at Portland Place.

Tim Fortescue from Westminster’s Secret Service, BBC 1995

Judith
Judith
Oct 18, 2020 1:22 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

In the US Gary Webb, Danny Casolaro, Michael Hastings, among others.

God knows how many we don’t know about – or believe died naturally.

Joch
Joch
Oct 18, 2020 3:39 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Saville clearly ran a blackmailing operation for MI5, like Epstein did for the CIA, So stop pretending that it was covered up by the BBC, or that the wealthy are all pedophiles, its stupid. What you say is just silly, the operation was covered up by the whole state because they thought it served national interests, as a source of power and influence over powerful people. Also ‘great families’ stopped being important in world politics in about 1300AD.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 6:39 PM
Reply to  Joch

Do you see the CIA (and FBI) as loyally serving the elected government of the day, or more as the permanent, covert force largely controlling the elected government of the day? If the latter, then do the CIA serve only themselves, or a higher cause? BTW, Trump sees both the FBI and CIA bosses as beholden to the Democrats and the military industrial complex. They are part of the corrupt swamp he is struggling to drain. Should he win, say goodbye to Hapswell and Wray, along with legions of other anti-Trump bureaucrats.

Buster Bloodvessel
Buster Bloodvessel
Oct 18, 2020 5:39 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

There is a trove of good info on the absolutely heinous sexual corruption at the highest levels at brassballs – Harry the Greek , most is US info but the links are worldwide

See also culturewars website Dr E Michael Jones.

also last american vagabond. Swiss Prop Research has some good info on the connections in euro-land.

and who made big noises about investigating Saville et al only to ensure a stitch-up and buried the “enquiry”… Teresa May .

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 6:27 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Geoffrey Epstein is famously said to have possessed extremely incriminating film evidence of pedophile activity among the ruling elites both on his private island and on his flying bordello, the ‘Lolita Express’. His trial would have revealed a true nest of the wealthiest and most famous pedophile worms, which is why he was murdered, most probably at the behest of the Clinton clan.

I_left_the_left
I_left_the_left
Oct 19, 2020 5:41 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

This is possibly biggest scandal ever, but as it involves Hunter, son of Puppet Joe abd hus derp state controllers, the MSM will be doing everything possible to discredit it. Were this about Donald Trump Jr, they would do everything possible to make the world see the corruption of right-wing Americans. But there’s no bias…

Weekend
Weekend
Oct 18, 2020 10:17 AM

It is expected that 200,000 people will die as a direct result of the hospital closures by government order in the UK.
That is a genocide of the sick and vulnerable on a magnitude almost 9 times greater than those who will die from this seasonal flu like virus Covid.
But remember, the closure of the hospitals, imposition of martial law, curfews, the house arrest of the population and the destruction of the entire British economy, has saved Zero lives.
At best all that can be claimed, is it that they may have delay the spread of this now ubiquitous virus. Delaying the spread, the wearing of face masks, the confinement to their homes, reduction in sports, fresh air, and sunlight, will more than likely increase the eventual spread and fatality of the virus, not reduce it.
Hitler begin his reign of terror with murder touring hospitals, where doctors and nurses systematically murdered the vulnerable and mentally ill.

polistra
polistra
Oct 18, 2020 9:30 AM

Observed reality is not “anecdotal”. In real epidemics, almost everyone is sick to one degree or another, and the people who are not sick see that everyone around them is sick. In this situation, nobody is sick except for the people who were already dying, and they don’t especially care which “virus” finishes them off. This may or may not be a real virus, but it certainly is NOT a real epidemic.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Oct 18, 2020 4:55 PM
Reply to  polistra

And I still don’t personally know anyone who has had it. And I know quite a few older people who would probably be described as being in the vulnerable category.

Sol
Sol
Oct 18, 2020 9:24 AM

Partial Statistics and Numbers which make no sense and have no reason hider than to generate more conflicts, confusion and division.
Fact is that no one is anymore asking about who brought this manmade virus to the world nor why and how some people hold patent on it, and why century old technology which destroys viruses (UVC) has being hidden or called to expensive or dangerous while it is not, or why some countries are breaking international laws and as if above the law, working on the development of new viruses and biological weapons.
Here a clip censured and deleted many times which will show how sick minded people and. Genocidal plans have being and are still sold to the public as means of progress and defense.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_logo&v=O7TZ_2N_23E

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 18, 2020 7:53 AM

Tim, stick to wars because on this you are ridiculous. There is no new virus, there is no global pandemic, the lies and bullshit peddled are monumental and Aussies seem to be the dumbest and whiniest on the planet.

Apolline
Apolline
Oct 18, 2020 9:22 AM

Thanks ! Totally agree. No virus isolated, even CDC admits. Please read this extract (will post source below) :

How is a virus diagnosed?

Before we go there, I need to explain that viruses have never actually been seen under an electron microscope or have been isolated and photographed.

Since this “belief system” is very difficult to break down and is never questioned by anyone studying medicine, be it traditional or alternative, I have to refer to the work of Dr. Stefan Lanka a German virologist and biologist who actually discovered the first and only virus that was successfully visualized under a microscope. However it was seen within a sea algae not in a human or animal. What is more important is that he discovered that the sea algae and the virus had a “healthy” relationship and there were no destructive or toxic reactions between the two entities.

Dr. Lanka also won a ground breaking argument in the Federal Court in Germany 4 years ago where it was declared by the judge after having seen all the existing scientific evidence that was provided by Dr. Lanka, that the Measles virus has never been proven to exist.

As a scientist Dr. Lanka was so sure of the fact that the Measles virus didn’t exist that he offered 100,000 Euros to anyone that could prove otherwise. Subsequently he was taken to court by a medical student who claimed that Dr. Lanka had no evidence of what he was saying and that he owed him 100,000 Euros. Of course the case went to court and Dr. Lanka won.

That leaves us with the question of what these images refer to if they are not viruses. The majority of the images in both medical books and on the internet are CGI, this is especially true if they are coloured. However these days technology has found a way to allow colours to be imaged from a photograph taken with an electron microscope. Nonetheless it is not what it is said to represent, be it coloured or in black and white.

These images are very convincing especially if they are labeled as Hepatitis, Polio, Measles or HIV etc., but on closer examination it has never been stated that the pictures shown to us are in fact viruses however they are labelled as such to lead us to believe that they are responsible for a “condition” that is hypothesized to be the result of a virus.
What is it that they see under and electron microscope?

Since a virus has never been visualized under an electron microscope a methodology had to be devised in order to “extract” substances which were supposedly the result of viral activity.

Let’s use the example of Polio which was supposedly the first virus identified and then photographed under an electron microscope. What we are shown are in fact “artificial particles” which involves the complex process of suctioning an indifferent mass through a very fine filter into a vacuum which is then photographed. It is not something that is actually seen in the blood or in a tissue sample!

This form of research is highly contaminated and yet it is accepted and published in the scientific community.

Source : https://www.gnmonlineseminars.com/covid-19-part-i/

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 9:12 PM
Reply to  Apolline

Jon Rappoport’s Blog is excellent for reportage on the years of fraud in health care and in regard to pandemics specifically.

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 18, 2020 7:29 AM

The notion that public health can be fostered by lockdowns, unprecedented scaremongering, testing every-fucking-body after the first sniffle, blowing disease out of proportion, and all the other crap that is presently taking place is ridiculously idiotic.

Even if there were a pandemic (there isn’t – viz excess mortality from where I live: https://www.czso.cz/documents/10180/138290006/obypzcr101320_g2.xlsx/da55b9ba-d4fd-44aa-aab2-0aca01c6b697?version=1.1), the response we’ve seen would be idiotically counterproductive.

It’s not what this clown is babbling about health systems, it’s what he’s not saying.

Since the severity of the alleged disease COVID-19 has proved to be questionable to say the least (it’s widely acknowledged that the death rate is akin to the flu if not lower), how come there has not been a single positive message in the MSM? How come there has been no good word from politicians? How come there hasn’t been a global campaign along the lines – people, improve your lifestyle, get in shape, boost your immunity, stop eating shit, exercise, get some sun? Only scaremongering, scaremongering, scaremongering, and then some. Testing for stuff that just about everybody has in them, stressing people out to the max.

There is no pandemic, of course. It’s a hoax, pretext for fucking up the world to usher in digital totalitarianism, to crash the economy and make people dependent on oligarch-owned governments, and so on. Possibly to kill off people.

Tunnel-vision doctors are the last people to debate this.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 6:19 AM

Bizarre report in The Guardian on NZ’s election… reads like a press release.

“As Ardern swung straight back into the job – meeting her senior MPs for a coffee – tens of thousands of New Zealanders made their way to Eden Park in Auckland to watch the second Bledisloe cup, further highlighting the country’s many freedoms and liberties at a time when cases in Europe and the US are soaring, and lockdowns slamming back into place. One new local case of Covid did however emerge in Auckland on Sunday, halting the nation’s three-week streak.

Ardern’s party won the highest percentage of the vote in more than five decades, claiming 64 seats in parliament, with her handling of the Covid-19 crisis regarded as decisive in her win. Leaders around the world – from Boris Johnson to the Dalai Lama – congratulated her for her compassion and action on climate change.

Peter Wilson, an economist, said voters will need more from Ardern than Covid action. “Voters have thanked Ardern for keeping the country safe from Covid-19.”

Pass the sick bag, Alice

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Oct 18, 2020 7:55 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

You aren’t kidding, the country was trashed over nothing, 20% of the so called few cases were the old probable, and the deaths were less than half those suffered when one Australian shot down 51 innocent people.

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 9:14 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Agreed… as I wipe goo off my face.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 18, 2020 5:08 AM

Prof.Tim Anderson is one of my heroes, and I declare here, Let his name be written in the Book of Righteous Ozzies! But primaeval fear of the unknown has driven him to Love Lockdown, and to believe Reports from the Regime:

“citing an Unpublished Government Report … paragraph 20 … predicted 500,000 COVID19 deaths “if the virus had been allowed to run through the population unchecked”.

“Ah, your If, your If is the only way of talking yourself out of the trouble that you talked yourself into” — As You Like It

Melissa
Melissa
Oct 18, 2020 4:34 AM

the costs of ‘lockdowns’, which are mainly in delayed or denied health care, plus child nutrition and schooling.

I think alot of the delayed of denied ‘health care’ actually offset the overall deaths caused by the terror campaign. Many lives were saved due to cancelled “treatments” and it shows because all cause mortality didn’t go up as much as it should of done if this cancelled “health care” would have actually been saving lives. To make a statement about the costs like you have shows great disregard for any serious consideration of the damage caused which amounts to a very serious crime of genocide. Using the lesser of two evils propagada technique to try to justify such crimes is no good. Any criminal could come up with some bs story about how they were saving someones life when they comitted murder. It doesn’t wash.

Clyde
Clyde
Oct 18, 2020 3:28 AM

In Alberta we were told, in early April, three weeks after poleaxing socioeconomic life in the province; that the probable scenario would see 800 000 infections in the province by mid-May, 1 060 000 if things went badly, and 1 600 000 if we went commando and let the virus run. There were under 7000 positive “cases” at the end of May, with no subsequent admission of failure by the public health authorities. If it’s not a propaganda’ campaign, it’s doing a great impersonation of one. The Case Fatality Rate for Covid is 1.3 in the province currently, and trending down. The Case Rates for lab-confirmed influenza death in hospital has ranged from .4 to 3.1 for the last ten recorded flu seasons. The positive test rate went under 2% on May 11th with the seven-day average remaining below 2% ever since. Anybody citing IFR is counting angels on pinheads. Rancourt is absolutely correct about the real excess mortality in Canada. They terrified the staff in the long-term care homes in Ontario and Quebec, who left their charges to die, with the Army having to take over.

Melissa
Melissa
Oct 18, 2020 3:45 AM
Reply to  Clyde

there is no such thing as covid-19. your dealing with criminals that could care less about peoples health.
https://www.loveproductions.org/english/articles/misinterpretation-of-virus/

Arby
Arby
Oct 19, 2020 9:16 PM
Reply to  Melissa

“Could care” less means that they care.

Jacques
Jacques
Oct 18, 2020 7:34 AM
Reply to  Clyde

There has been no excess mortality in the Czech Republic:

https://www.czso.cz/documents/10180/138290006/obypzcr101320_g2.xlsx/da55b9ba-d4fd-44aa-aab2-0aca01c6b697?version=1.1

There is no excess mortality in Europe

http://www.euromomo.eu

The data are pretty much the same all over the world. The alleged disease COVID0-19 is total crock of shit. Debating it is a total waste of time.

The only thing that makes sense to debate is how to fight the m-effers who are behind it. And, more importantly, what to do with the zillions of people who have allowed themselves to be totally brainwashed and scared shitless by the crap in the MSM. These people are the biggest problem.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 18, 2020 8:17 AM
Reply to  Jacques

– The conference of European Society of Pathologists concluded on 2020-05-08 that no one has identified an antibody specific to covid-19; the quantity of monoclonal IgG antibodies detected is insufficient for the further tests required to distinguish them from related viruses.
– So, there is no evidence of deaths from it.
– At present, it is not possible to create a vaccine for it.
– WHO is criminal in declaring a pandemic, creating worldwide fear and chaos.

  • from off-guardian, 2020-08-06
Jacques
Jacques
Oct 18, 2020 9:28 AM
Reply to  mgeo

A debate about the medical aspects of the alleged disease of COVID-19 makes sense only insofar as it has any potential to turn around what’s referred to as the Covidian Cult in this article (https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/13/the-covidian-cult/).

The problem the world is facing is the extent to which people have allowed themselves to be indoctrinated by this horseshit and, more generally, the obvious lack of people’s ability to think independently, resist media brainwashing, and, even more generally, live their own actual lives as opposed to everybody living a generic rat-race life predefined by the m-effers in the Office Where They Run Everything From.

With the advent of the digital revolution, humankind has two choices – use AI to free them from external factors and allow them to explore the inner world (my preference) or allow AI to enslave them and eventually transform them into a bunch of fucking androids (the current course).

I’m afraid that if so many people can’t even begin to see what’s going on and what’s at stake, perhaps the world would be better off without humans. No other creatures are so fucked up as humans. We are unable to survive in our natural habitat. We have to burn stuff left and right. None of the doodads we make and consider progress makes us any happier, on the contrary. Broadly speaking, it would be best if we died out and let animals have the Earth to themselves. Like cats – they don’t need TVs to be happy. Lying in the sun is good enough.

Damn, I’m not in a very optimistic mood today … 😀 …

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 18, 2020 12:12 PM
Reply to  Jacques

“Living your own lives” is unlikely to suit oligarchic plans, rigged competition, kleptocracy, profiteering, the rabid amassing of wealth and modern human sacrifice. Personal “advancement”, development, globalism, incessant change, and shrill propaganda on enemies were all meant to throw us off balance and enslave us. Most economies, environments and people’s health are practically wrecked. The anarchists knew that those who sought authority were psychopaths, and tried to warn us. What now? Do we look up to China?
China’s Environment Today

Clyde
Clyde
Oct 18, 2020 2:58 AM

How does the Swedish mortality look from mid-July to now? And always throw in Trump if one is selling Covidmania.

Clyde
Clyde
Oct 18, 2020 2:55 AM

No mention of the well-documented effects of the lockdowns in terms of psychosocial stresses producing illness, drug abuse, domestic violence and despair across all age groups.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 17, 2020 11:46 PM

https://worldchangebrief.webnode.com
This is a Special Alert – A must watch
Communist China Blackmail Material on Hunter Biden Is Horrifying Torture of Children/ Laptop Materials Are Verified/ Chinese Communists Have Full Infiltration of Top US Politicians/ Big Tech Interconnected

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 18, 2020 7:03 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

Nobody cares about the fake election.

Voxi Pop
Voxi Pop
Oct 18, 2020 11:29 PM
Reply to  Researcher

dumb

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 18, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  Voxi Pop

It’s fake. Why are all the presidents, bar one, related to each other?

Loverat
Loverat
Oct 17, 2020 11:36 PM

Not very impressed with this. So I give you a 1.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Oct 17, 2020 11:24 PM

We didn’t go to The Latitude Festival to See Blondie in 2008…There were a few good Bands on then.

The organiser’s (young?) obviously thought no one would be interested in Blondie…and instead of the main stage -God know what these people are on – and put her on in a Marquee…

She Blew The Roof Off

I am pretty sure, she can still do that now at the age of 75.

Some Girls Have It

“Blondie – Maria (Official Video)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abw49k3rIN0

Tony

Nixon Scraypes
Nixon Scraypes
Oct 18, 2020 12:14 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Are you sure? See her with Maria Abramovic, getting in the latest scene.

janmarsh
janmarsh
Oct 17, 2020 11:03 PM

The Viral Debate has been settled … seemingly.
Whats The Crown and Establishment up to.
Oz and NZ experiencing extreme measures …. Charles pushing with Schwab …. Internment camps in Canada. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCAuf3nMvM

Jill
Jill
Oct 17, 2020 11:00 PM

Latest numbers from the CDC: Age 0-19 survival rate: 99.997, Age 20-49 survival rate: 99.98, age 50-69 survival rate: 99.5, Age 70+ survival rate: 94.6.

These numbers are good news (and I have every reason to believe actual numbers are even better, seeing how the US has changed how we classify deaths, which has inflated the numbers). But let’s just go with these numbers. I don’t see anything here, except for what has happened to elderly people, to be an emergency.

Evidence is mounting that the US, UK and Canadian governments actively murdered elderly people in nursing homes. There are prosecutors looking into this allegations in several US states. There is very strong evidence of this having occurred in the US, UK and Canada. State murder is an emergency and the remedy for it the rule of law.

Further many US states forbid use of successful treatments which could have helped reduce death rates even further.

As to global conspiracy, there are two cases which have reached the courts where the plaintiffs will show evidence of a conspiracy. 1. Rocco Galati and 2. Dr. Fuellmich. Another case brought by Tom Renz against OH gov. DeWine is presenting evidence that would bolster this assertion. Their statements of claim make reference to events, statements and evidence which can be fact checked by anyone and will be adjudicated in a court of law.

The suffering of children speaks loudly to the evil which state coercion has visited on the people of the world.

Thom
Thom
Oct 17, 2020 9:59 PM

This whole covid shit is getting real old and borrrrring. I start feeling tht way about the first of April this year. I understand that there should be discourse on this to get to the bottom of it. But there have been many doctors speaking out and signed petitions et al for many months now. And citizens rebelling in public forums and in street protests. But nothing’s happening to change the authorities in different jurisdictions from backing off on their phony mask requirements and their morbid fascination with keeping us apart. Just sick of it.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 17, 2020 11:50 PM
Reply to  Thom

How do you think those of us who know it’s all a giant fraud and there’s no virus, feel?

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 18, 2020 5:27 AM
Reply to  Thom

It’s time to mobilize.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Oct 19, 2020 10:03 AM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

Mobilize, as in Bolivia. From today’s Saker:

“Last night’s exit polls show that Bolivia’s Movement Towards Socialism (MAS) won the presidency in the 1st round with an even higher score than in 2019. MAS won decisively. They had put in place their own vote counting system that is iron clad. There were sporadic incidents of violence, the election observers were threatened and Bolivians woke up on election morning with La Paz having been militarized by army and police to an almost ridiculous level. None of this scared off the MAS.

The coup could take place a year ago because Evo Morales could not hold onto loyalty – they were open to bribery. The amazing thing that I saw following the election is the clear move toward MAS. Perhaps the bribe money ran out; or perhaps they saw the wholesale looting of their country as soon as the coup goverment took over.”

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
Oct 17, 2020 8:58 PM

https://www.ageofautism.com/2020/10/new-york-rabbi-begs-for-president-trump-to-help-jewish-community.html
New York Rabbi Begs For President Trump To Help J-wish Community
By Anne Dachel
Rabbi Hillel Handler from New York City is someone I first got to know in 2013 when he was speaking out against the forced vaccination of Orthodox J-wish children against measles. . . .

New York Rabbi Begs For President Trump To Help J-wish Community
Oct 6, 2020
gifterphotos
A well known Rabbi in Brooklyn, NY, Rabbi Handler speaks out against Gov. Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio for their harsh treatment of New York J-ws and begs for President Trump and his DOJ to help protect the first amendment which is being attacked by NY Governor Cuomo and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio.

Lost in a dark wood
Lost in a dark wood
Oct 17, 2020 10:50 PM
S Cooper
S Cooper
Oct 17, 2020 11:12 PM

Apparently GOV DEATH and the Deblasio-Virus not satisfied with merely channeling their INNER ADOLFS’ (when they offed thousands of NY Grandmas and Grandpas earlier this year) want to surpass them, by shoving large numbers of the faithful into ovens. To those pathogens “God is indeed dead!”

THOSE FOUL CORPORATE FASCIST CONTAGIONS MUST BE STOPPED, before they murder again.

https://imgflip.com/i/40bn08

http://politicalclownparade.blogspot.com/2020/04/reichsfuhrer-de-blasio.html

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 18, 2020 5:42 AM

Everyone should listen to this powerful appeal, from a very wise man.

“To kill a person spiritually is worse than to kill him physically and our children are being killed spiritually by these lockdowns. And the governor says it’s because I love you…”

“This is a man who made an executive order: nursing homes must take in people from the hospitals who are stricken with Covid and bring them into a population who are weak. He was warned, ‘you are going to kill people’… 40% of the deaths in New York State…over 11,000 people died… they were murdered.”

“The mask is a tool of terror.”

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 17, 2020 8:51 PM

Don’t forget that the FBI had Hunter Biden’s laptop in 2019 while the Democrats were trying to impeach Donald Trump for asking about the corruption inquiry in Ukraine.

The FBI knew the impeachment attempt against Trump was fake, while Trump’s underlying concerns about Ukraine were justified.

Why are there so few real journalists to hold these crooks to account?

Some have drifted into a living. Just as many are on the payroll of the FBI and CIA, the political police of the USSA.

“Pursuing the truth can be the deadliest game there is [and] rarely anyone seems up to the task. Now that we seem to be knocking on bigger and bigger doors, it may be worth a trip through time to acknowledge others who lost it all in search of the truth, specifically Dorothy Kilgallen.”

Author Mark Shaw discusses JFK on Quite Frankly (from 25 minutes).
https://www.bitchute.com/video/TfnqDnpQYhc/

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 17, 2020 9:07 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

The FBI’s advance knowledge of the Biden scandal means they likely alerted the Dems.

That suggests the Democratic leadership had advance notice of the scandal and perhaps a year to prepare their diversion. Funny that falconry man, Dumbledore of Iran, was ready to go just as the Biden scandal went nuclear.

https://www.thedorothykilgallenstory.org/

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 17, 2020 9:26 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Dorothy Kilgallen was writing about about JFK’s assassination… she was one of the leading journalists of her generation… she told her hairdresser if people knew what I know, I’d be dead.
But there’s another connection. She, Marilyn Monroe and JFK died within 40 months of each other. Marilyn had been preparing to tell her story to journalists when she died. That reporter could well have been Dorothy, who herself was preparing to publish her book about JFK when she died.
Accidental death undetermined. Probable suicide. Both women’s deaths were misrepresented. Neither woman was tired of life as the press suggested.

Nixon Scraypes
Nixon Scraypes
Oct 18, 2020 12:24 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

The other day I saw that just after the death of JFK , Johnson was there to sign up to the UN. Am I correct? Also Lyndon and now Boris…?

Someone
Someone
Oct 18, 2020 1:19 AM
Reply to  Nixon Scraypes

Guys you’re commenting on the wrong post

Jen
Jen
Oct 17, 2020 8:48 PM

I have seen some online information on why Swedish elderly in aged care homes were hit worse by COVID-19 compared to their counterparts in Norway and Denmark. Herd immunity and lockdown measures had nothing to do with the difference. The difference camd down to the choice of business model used to run nursing homes in these countries.

I understand that in Norway, nursing homes are usually small with fewer than 100 residents. I presume they are likely to get individual attention. I have no idea though who runs such places, whether they are publicly or privately run, or a mix of both, and I do not know how they recruit workers, train and pay them.

In Sweden, aged care homes are the responsibility of municipal governments which outsource the management to private operators. Homes may have several hundred residents. Carers in such places are employed on contracts. The
money earned is not enough to live on so carers often work at more than one home and some even work at three homes through the week including weekends.

Many if not most carers in Swedish care homes come from refugee and immigrant communities and their knowledge of Swedish can be poor. They often live in areas where housing conditions are overcrowded and high crime rates are so high that police have declared them no-go zones, and consequently government services including social services and health services giving advice on how to deal with COVID-19 are absent. Until fairly recently the Swedish government neglected to provide advice on observing hygiene and social distancing in the languages of these communities, and people in the communities had to provide this information at their own expense to their fellow members.

Significantly in the context given above, refugee and immigrant communities in Sweden have been devastated by COVID-19. The disease spreads through the aged care sector and these communities due to the factory business / employment model just described.

If Tim Anderson had drilled down into the reasons the Swedish COVID-19 pandemic experience has been so different from those of its close neighbours, his stance regarding the use of suppression measures would come undone. It seems to me that those who advocate suppression and lockdown do so from a political and ideological position that claims to be “progressive”, “socialist” and/or “compassionate”.

Researcher
Researcher
Oct 17, 2020 11:44 PM
Reply to  Jen

It’s death by flu vaccination. Or death by death certificate fixing. Or neglect. That’s what the difference is between Sweden, Norway and Denmark in aged homes. Not hand washing, social distancing or mask wearing.

There’s no virus. Therefore no deaths from the virus.

Croach
Croach
Oct 18, 2020 2:42 AM
Reply to  Researcher

Don’t forget death by ‘palliative’ sedation.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 18, 2020 8:33 AM
Reply to  Jen

France too has no-go zones for police in cities. As per the directive from the overlords, there is a concerted effort to censor the subversion of countries through uncontolled immigration. Such subversion is also underway in other continents.

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Oct 17, 2020 8:33 PM

IFR “consensus” of 0.5 to 1%? Where TF does he get this? WHO has admitted 0.14%. Dr John Ioannidis in a new study gets 0.15-0.2%. In a new paper of his posted by WHO, he looks at a bunch of studies, comes up with a median of 0.23%. Not a shred of science in Anderson’s background or his presentation.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Oct 17, 2020 8:56 PM
Reply to  Jeffrey Strahl

Most of Dr Anderson’s sources for this are several months old.

mgeo
mgeo
Oct 18, 2020 8:36 AM
Reply to  Admin1

Pathetic.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Oct 17, 2020 7:41 PM

Bring out yer dead.

“Who’s that…
Must be a king.
Why?
Hasn’t got shit all over him.”

Timeless.